Fate/kaleid liner PRISMA☆ILLYA [manga]

[GDB]

I'm just curious how much longer 3rei is going to go on. I believe we're already into the 5th volume (since the 4th comes out like... next week), and from the dialogue Angelica only seems like she's a mid-boss fight rather than a penultimate boss.

[Myssa Rei]

Death Usagi: Actually I was talking about the Gun God's gun. Which would have been yet another nod to Notes.

[ukulelembo]

Whatever the connotation is in Japanese, in English, the very definition of "fanfiction" includes illegitimacy. If it is in any way "legitimate" or "official" (published by the intellectual property owner, written by an official writer, etc.) it cannot be fanfiction. The fact that most fiction, official or not, is written by fans, is immaterial. A work can start out as fanfiction and become official, on the ever so rare occasion of the IP owner legitimizing a fan work, but at that point it ceases to be fanfiction. It can't work the other way.

Prisma Illya, however (or indeed whether) it fits into previous Type-Moon works, is an official Type-Moon IP, and thus cannot be fanfiction, whether or not the writer used a word which, in Japanese, can mean "fanfiction" (but doesn't in this context). How is this even a discussion? Should we next discuss just what the meaning of the word "is" is?
Finally something below what can I sign.

Because someone is trying to illegitimatize a translation because the translator chose the word "fanfiction" instead of "derivative work", when the translation is still accurate

LOLWUT!

and then put forth a google translation as a more trustworthy translation.
Sorry that I'm lazy use more trustworthy sources in such obviously wrong and trivial case. I do better next time. ;)

[GDB]

LOLWUT!

Just because you don't like the wording choice doesn't mean the translation itself wasn't accurate. Now seriously, knock it off. Your little tirade against a single word choice of a translation has created about 3-4 pages worth of absolutely worthless and relatively off topic back and forth. There's no need to create another 3 pages since it'd be the exact same arguments as the previous pages. Just let it go, it's drowning out actual discussion.

[ukulelembo]

Just because you don't like the wording choice doesn't mean the translation itself wasn't accurate...
I don't like that wording choice because wasn't accurate in the first place (see quigonkenny's post). And also I know that some people on Beast's lair are against canonity of Prisma and here quoted translation was basically purposely skewed just because it was possible. And in the end I think that google translation is really more trustworthy than purposely skewed translation. ;)

[Shadow5YA]

A story being official does not prove whether it's canon or not. There are plenty of things like the Dragon Ball GT characters or what-if scenarios like Super Saiyan 3 Broly that obviously do not fit into their main franchise.

You've made your point about it being legitimate, but your argument about it being canon is another story.

The idea is that this manga is an original story loosely based on an already established franchise and should be treated as such. Alternate dimensions aside (which is an explanation that can be applied to any work, even fanfiction), the story has no causal relationship with the main Fate's story or Notes.

[ukulelembo]

Alternate dimensions aside...
You can't put aside alternative dimensions in universe where multiple realities are one of the main key points. Basically only main two differences between Type-Moon's official works and Type-Moon's fanfictions are that:
1) Official works respect main rules of that universe or at least have a reasonable explanation, if not.
2) Things from official works can appear/be mentioned in other official works when some alternative realities begin to interact.

Yes, it's a very thin line between this, but there is nothing better and maybe it's even a purpose.

[ReddyRedWolf]

She could be, without Rin's knowledge. If she had been adopted by the Matous earlier enough in her life, Rin wouldn't remember her. Subplot for 4ier?

There is the part that Rin said she is Japanese on her father's side. Suggesting her mother is not Aoi.

So in this universe it is starting to look like.

Tokiomi Tohsaka + Edelfelt (No third grail war means no eloping couple 70 years ago) = Rin

Kiriya Matou + Aoi Zenjou = Sakura.

[ukulelembo]

There is the part that Rin said she is Japanese on her father's side. Suggesting her mother is not Aoi.
Can you tell in which chapter is this mentioned? I don't remember something like this.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Can you tell in which chapter is this mentioned? I don't remember something like this.

After Bazett wrecked Luvia's mansion. Luvia commented that Japanese homes are so fragile. Which Rin retorted she is Japanese on her father's side.

[Shadow5YA]

You can't put aside alternative dimensions in universe where multiple realities are one of the main key points. Basically only main two differences between Type-Moon's official works and Type-Moon's fanfictions are that:

2) Things from official works can appear/be mentioned in other official works when some alternative realities begin to interact.

Yes, it's a very thin line between this, but there is nothing better and maybe it's even a purpose.

The only time I recall alternate realities being mentioned is when Rin uses Zelretch's knife, and even in that case it never addressed what happened in those other worlds.

The Throne of Heroes is something that transcends reality and as such isn't really an alternate dimension, and Reality Marbles aren't really the same as a complete parallel world like in Prisma Ilya's sense either.

There is nothing within the main series that confirms Prisma Ilya has a place in its setting. It is a part of the franchise for business, yes, but that doesn't prove any connection between the stories.

1) Official works respect main rules of that universe or at least have a reasonable explanation, if not.

Some fanfiction can do this as well. Check Crazy Clover Complex's Type Moon Complex. The only real difference between an official work and fanfiction is that the official work is published and endorsed by the owners of the property.

Official works also do not have to respect their own rules either. There's Keikenchi's trademark 4komas in Type-Moon Ace. They're called parodies.

[ukulelembo]

After Bazett wrecked Luvia's mansion. Luvia commented that Japanese homes are so fragile. Which Rin retorted she is Japanese on her father's side.
I see... you mean this:
http://i.imgur.com/TA8BNXd.png
I don't think that she's talking about Tokiomi. Maybe you should read better.

The only time I recall alternate realities being mentioned is when Rin uses Zelretch's knife, and even in that case it never addressed what happened in those other worlds.
Maybe you should read also other Type-Moon works. There is thing called Second Magic (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Magic) and that plays a large role in a deeper context of Nasuverse. Also individual FSN routes themselves are alternative dimensions to each other. That's why you can tell that everything is canon. Even Dead Ends. All this happened in some of Nasuverse realities.

The Throne of Heroes is something that transcends reality...
The Throne of Heroes works outside all realities. Its database is the same in each reality. That's why for example Ilya in Prisma can summon Archer even if her Shirou will never become a hero and will live a normal life with her. Sufficient is if Shirou becomes a hero in one reality, then Heroic Spirit EMIYA becomes available in all realities.

There is nothing within the main series that confirms Prisma Ilya has a place in its setting. It is a part of the franchise for business, yes, but that doesn't prove any connection between the stories.
In original Fate except connection between all routes, alternative realities play the biggest role probably just in Hollow Ataraxia, when Rin's failed experiment with Zelretch's Sword results in fusion of several realities into one. But as you already said nowhere is specified what happened in those other worlds. Which leaves space for stories like Fate/Extra, Fate/Apocrypha and even Prisma.

Some fanfiction can do this as well. Check Crazy Clover Complex's Type Moon Complex...
You reminded me biggest mistake from latest chapter which clearly proves how much is Type Moon Complex is just fanfiction:
http://i.imgur.com/12IPGbrl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/12IPGbr.jpg)
No, this really isn't Emiya. :D
Similar mistakes usually aren't present in official work. ;)

[Shadow5YA]

I see... you mean this:

Maybe you should read also other Type-Moon works. There is thing called Second Magic (http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Second_Magic) and that plays a large role in a deeper context of Nasuverse. Also individual FSN routes themselves are alternative dimensions to each other. That's why you can tell that everything is canon. Even Dead Ends. All this happened in some of Nasuverse realities.

First, the different Fate routes can be canon because they all share the same setting. Sakura is still filled with worms in every route, Archer is still Archer, Saber is still Saber, Shirou is still an orphan adopted by the late Kiritisugu, etc. The bottom line is, they all have the events elaborated in Fate/Zero as an anchor point for the setting.

This however cannot be said about Prisma Ilya. For example, Shirou's backstory in particular is vague and not very well written, with how he is still Kiritsugu's adopted son despite the circumstances that caused them to meet in the main Fate series never happening.

For all intents and purposes, we are just supposed to assume Ilya's world is one where the characters from the Fate franchise can exist without the tragic background most of them had in the main series.


Second, the Second Magic was never successfully recovered by the Einzberns, meaning any interaction between parallel worlds (for more than just mana purposes as I already mentioned with Rin's knife of Zelretch) never happened in the main series.

The Throne of Heroes works outside all realities. Its database is the same in each reality. That's why for example Ilya in Prisma can summon Archer even if her Shirou will never become a hero and will live a normal life with her. Sufficient is if Shirou becomes a hero in one reality, then Heroic Spirit EMIYA becomes available in all realities.

A historical event does not have to occur for a hero to be recorded in the Throne. Sasaki Kojirou was stated to be a fictional character, and he was summoned just fine. There's also Nursery Rhyme in Fate/Extra. Additionally, because the Grail only summons a copy of the hero and doesn't actually pull the historical figure from his/her time period (except for Saber), there was never any requirement for Heroic Spirits to have physically existed in history.

In original Fate except connection between all routes, alternative realities play the biggest role probably just in Hollow Ataraxia, when Rin's failed experiment with Zelretch's Sword results in fusion of several realities into one. But as you already said nowhere is specified what happened in those other worlds. Which leaves space for stories like Fate/Extra, Fate/Apocrypha and even Prisma.

You fail to mention that many of those stories are:

A part of Bazett's dream sequence induced by Avenger (taking on the identity of Shirou) to keep her alive, which doesn't have much to do with alternate dimensions at all.


You reminded me biggest mistake from latest chapter which clearly proves how much is Type Moon Complex is just fanfiction:
http://i.imgur.com/12IPGbrl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/12IPGbr.jpg)
No, this really isn't Emiya. :D
Similar mistakes usually aren't present in official work. ;)

I was referring to the main Type Moon Complex X series.

But even in this case, that was referencing the Archer in Apocrypha, which by your definition is also "canon" thanks to the multiverses and the fact that it is an officially serialized work.

[Lhklan]

Second, the Second Magic was never successfully recovered by the Einzberns, meaning any interaction between parallel worlds (for more than just mana purposes as I already mentioned with Rin's knife of Zelretch) never happened in the main series.


Eh, Einzberns have no relation with Second Magic (Operation of Parallel World/Kaleidoscope). What the Einzberns are associated with is the Third Magic (Heaven's Feel).



But even in this case, that was referencing the Archer in Apocrypha, which by your definition is also "canon" thanks to the multiverses and the fact that it is an officially serialized work.

Eh...


None of the Archer in Apocrypha looks like that. Red Archer is ... Atalanta, while Black Archer is Chiron.
Also, the guy in question is the Ruler from the 3rd War, Amakusa Shirou Tokisada. He doesn't have any relation to any possible version of Shirou Emiya at al.

[ukulelembo]

First, the different Fate routes can be canon because they all share the same setting. Sakura is still filled with worms in every route, Archer is still Archer, Saber is still Saber, Shirou is still an orphan adopted by the late Kiritisugu, etc. The bottom line is, they all have the events elaborated in Fate/Zero as an anchor point for the setting.
No, no, no. You're completely wrong. You very badly understand what is canon in Nasuverse. Canon in Nasuverse is everything what happens in a deeper context of that universe. This about what you're talking is just one particular continuity in Fate. And that's just one of many possibilities. Fate/Zero really isn't anchor point for the setting, because even the fourth grail war has many variations of events which could happen. Just in Fate/Zero was presented just one possibility in comparison to FSN which presented three. But that's only a fraction of all possibilities. For example, you can see little evidence of this in the character of Archer who didn't come from any realities presented in FSN, but from some completely different in FSN unpresented (Nasu himself confirmed that Shirou doesn't become Heroic Spirit in any route) just similar in key points.
If you want real anchor point for the setting, then you should read Mahoyo (http://vndb.org/v777), which is the true "backbone" of Nasuverse.

This however cannot be said about Prisma Ilya.
Yes, because Prisma is one of the completely different possibilities. And from this point yes, Prisma really isn't part of original reality from FSN unless we don't count meta parody series like Koha-Ace, Carnival Phantasm or All Around Type-Moon. At least for now.

Second, the Second Magic was never successfully recovered by the Einzberns...
Second Magic is the domain of Kischur Zelretch Schweinorg, not Einzberns. And Zelretch has full access to this magic. Einzberns work with the Third Magic.

A historical event does not have to occur for a hero to be recorded in the Throne. Sasaki Kojirou was stated to be a fictional character, and he was summoned just fine. There's also Nursery Rhyme in Fate/Extra. Additionally, because the Grail only summons a copy of the hero and doesn't actually pull the historical figure from his/her time period (except for Saber), there was never any requirement for Heroic Spirits to have physically existed in history.

No, Kojirou was special case partly because Caster's poor summoning. He was rather wraith than actual Heroic Spirit. Normally you can't summon completely fictional heroes. In Fate/Extra Heroic Spirits aren't summoned from Throne of Heroes, but from database of Moon Cell and that works a little differently.


You fail to mention that many of those stories are:

A part of Bazett's dream sequence induced by Avenger (taking on the identity of Shirou) to keep her alive, which doesn't have much to do with alternate dimensions at all.

Not everything.
Time outside Avenger's illusion normally works.


But even in this case, that was referencing the Archer in Apocrypha, which by your definition is also "canon" thanks to the multiverses and the fact that it is an officially serialized work.

Archer? No, that's Shirou Kotomine. My point is that:
When Crazy Clover Complex created this chapter they didn't know that Shirou Kotomine really isn't our Shirou Emiya, but completely different character.
This would probably didn't happen if it was official work.
And yes. Apocrypha is also canon.

[ReddyRedWolf]

I see... you mean this:
http://i.imgur.com/TA8BNXd.png
I don't think that she's talking about Tokiomi. Maybe you should read better.


Well I don't read gibberish translations like you do.


http://z.mfcdn.net/store/manga/6073/02-016.5/compressed/nsuimasen_fatekaleid_liner_prisma_illya_2wei_c16.5 .01.jpg

[ukulelembo]

Well I don't read gibberish translations like you do.
Interesting. Is that a translation from same group?

[Tenjouin]

Hmmmn, this got me a bit curious so I decided to ask a friend of mine studying in Japan right now, and from what he informs me, the one that ukulelembo posted is correct. Here is a picture of the original Japanese for those who want to compare as well.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/1j99qs.jpg

[ukulelembo]

he informs me, the one that ukulelembo posted is correct.
Updated translation? Probably. I downloaded directly from Suimasen Scans site.

[Kanon]

Hmmmn, this got me a bit curious so I decided to ask a friend of mine studying in Japan right now, and from what he informs me, the one that ukulelembo posted is correct. Here is a picture of the original Japanese for those who want to compare as well.

http://oi59.tinypic.com/1j99qs.jpg

I can confirm the translation ukulelembo posted is correct. That kills the theory Rin is a half in Prisma Illya, as far as I know, this was the only evidence supporting it.

[ukulelembo]

That kills the theory Rin is a half in Prisma Illya, as far as I know, this was the only evidence supporting it.
More importantly, where did you get evidence of that Sakura and Rin apparently aren't related in Prisma? More apparent is that Rin knows Sakura very well. And that suggest rather opposite about their relationship.
http://i.imgur.com/v0pY0aW.png

[Shadow5YA]

Sakura's background is also the same. They even referenced the scene where she fell for him because of his determination to clear that high jump pole.

[ukulelembo]

I also wonder, from where came that theory about Einzberns that they didn't cooperate with Tohsakas and Makiris at creation of Grail War. Only mention about that which I found in the entire manga was this:
http://i.imgur.com/6L7TR2fl.png (http://i.imgur.com/6L7TR2f.png)
But this just states that Einzberns cut away themself from society and that Rin knows nothing about Grail War. It doesn't specify nothing about when they cut away and why Rin doesn't know anything.
But there is also this:
http://i.imgur.com/gh2pXCEl.png (http://i.imgur.com/gh2pXCE.png)
This proves that even classic Grail Wars had to exist in Prismaverse and also indirectly suggests that at least Tohsakas had to be involved in their creation (servant summoning system is their work). Which means that real diverge point from original Fate must be just that something what happened ten years ago instead events of Fate/Zero. Question is just what exactly happened? And the only clue which we have is...
http://i.imgur.com/MV05MyHl.png (http://i.imgur.com/MV05MyH.png)

[Shadow5YA]

There's also this:

http://i.imgur.com/S8bpcd4.jpg

10 years ago is exactly when Fate/Zero happened though, so it's more likely Kiritsugu just fully succeeded without getting tainted and managed to rescue Ilya from the Einzberns since he wasn't weakened from the Grail's curse.


The odd part is Kotomine and Gil, since there seems to be no indication that they were originally a part of Ilya's world. Since Kotomine was probably never there, Irisviel never died.

[ReddyRedWolf]

This proves that even classic Grail Wars had to exist in Prismaverse and also indirectly suggests that at least Tohsakas had to be involved in their creation (servant summoning system is their work).

You got mixed up. The Tohsaka's provide the land while Makiri created the Servant system in FSN.

Caren implied that the Tohsaka's were involved as Fuyuki is administered by them.

Rin has zero knowledge of her folks involvement.

[ukulelembo]

The odd part is Kotomine and Gil, since there seems to be no indication that they were originally a part of Ilya's world. Since Kotomine was probably never there, Irisviel never died.
Here is one big proof that Kotomine existed in Ilya's world. Caren! But since Caren is already in Fuyuki instead of her father is likely that Kotomine is dead.

You got mixed up. The Tohsaka's provide the land while Makiri created the Servant system in FSN.
No, Servant system was created Tohsaka. Makiri created Command Spells and stabilize whole system of Grail. But with the provision of land you have right.

[Death Usagi]

I wouldn't be surprised if that Kotomine originally existed in Illya's world then moved into Miyu's world somehow.

But it seems both Gil and Kotomine are after the grail or something, but will probably take action after taking down the Ainsworth.

[ukulelembo]

I wouldn't be surprised if that Kotomine originally existed in Illya's world then moved into Miyu's world somehow.
That's a very interesting theory. ;)

But it seems both Gil and Kotomine are after the grail or something
Well, it's clear that they both are hiding something.

[ReddyRedWolf]

No, Servant system was created Tohsaka. Makiri created Command Spells and stabilize whole system of Grail. But with the provision of land you have right.

Nope Makiri were responsible for the Servant system.

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Magus#Makiri.2FMatou
Among their accomplishments include the establishment the Servant system of the Heaven's Feel and created the Command Spells for the Masters. They possess a considerable amount of monetary resources, which were accumulated during the time that they researched Thaumaturgy.

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Tohsaka#Tohsaka
Back when the Tohsaka were developing the ritual of the Heaven's Feel along with the Makiri and the Einzbern, Nagato's daughter played a greater role in the completion of the Holy Grail War system than her father. The Tohsaka role in the Heaven's Feel is to provide the use of their spiritual land to the ritual.

[ukulelembo]

Nope Makiri were responsible for the Servant system.
Your source just confirmed what I said. Makiri created Command Spells and stabilize whole system of Grail.

Read this:
http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Holy_Grail_War
The Einzberns provided the alchemy to create it and prepared the vessel for the Grail, the Tohsaka provided the necessary land and called forth the Servants, and the Makiri assembled the magecraft to stabilize the starting materials and designed the Command Seals that command the Servants.

[Kanon]

This came with the fourth volume...

http://i.imgur.com/XNYoDqU.jpg

[GDB]

Oh wow. That's... wow. They didn't even try to make it seem less sexual than they could have.

[Shadow5YA]

I remember when they had naked Ko-Gil in 2wei and Ruby said they made the logo smaller :heh:

[Death Usagi]

This came with the fourth volume...

http://i.imgur.com/XNYoDqU.jpg

I am just going to say... this series is just too NSFW =W=

[Kanon]

Oh wow. That's... wow. They didn't even try to make it seem less sexual than they could have.

It's cute, not pedo...

Oh, who the hell am I kidding?

[GDB]

It'd be easier to make such a claim if she didn't have that expression on her face.

[Kanon]

Ch15 is translated. Not much happened. Illya found Sapphire at the end of the chapter, so she can finally fight back... maybe.

[Shadow5YA]

Probably more running away with tsukkomi from Ilya until she finally changes back through instinct.

[Shadow5YA]

Kuro version on someone's phone:

http://i.imgur.com/2P1yagw.jpg

[Birdway]

Some day, just some day I'll have it in a better resolution, for now I have no other option but wait.

[Death Usagi]

I swear, if one were to have this manga in America or something, that itself will become a crime =w=;

[GDB]

So, apparently 3rei is one of the comics on the free Comic Walker ap. It only has chapter 1 so far, but it's really nice. Only oddity I've seen so far is it spells Ruby as Rubi and Liz and Rizu (plus no honorifics, so onii-chan became brother), but otherwise it's great. It makes it more obvious that the Ainsworth are a parallel Einzbern, as it spells it Einsworth.

[Miraluka]

Kuro version on someone's phone:

http://i.imgur.com/2P1yagw.jpg
Some day, just some day I'll have it in a better resolution, for now I have no other option but wait.

You called?

http://i.imgur.com/JrC40r6.jpg


Enjoy, all of you deserve it ;).

And this:
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zaVFitU.jpg

[GDB]

Thank you so much! Three bows and a cookie for you!

[Kanon]

Thank you so much!

[tsunade666]

thanks for the pic but this is also the time when I question my sanity for actually using it as a wallpaper on my cell >_>

[Birdway]

One word: Rejoice!!!

[Death Usagi]

thanks for the pic but this is also the time when I question my sanity for actually using it as a wallpaper on my cell >_>

Get rid of it before it is too late... D:...

[Gx Hero]

Well chapter 16 is out and illya has her body back. After having to fight/flee as a stuffed animal. Now as Illya prisma Saphire edition she must fight, this should be interesting since sapphire's and Ruby's personalities are different. Also wonder what stuffed animals Rin and luva got turned into.

One last comment, doesn't the two knights in this arc look like VIta and Signum from Nanoha, seriously how come at least 4 characters bear resemblance to Nanoha from the fate series.


Also here is an image I got from the Illya series

http://forums.animesuki.com/picture.php?albumid=4146&pictureid=53067

[Shadow5YA]

One last comment, dosen't the two knights in this arc look like VIta and SIgnum from Nanoha, seriously how come at least 4 characters bear resemblance to Nanoha from the fate series.

Uh... that error aside.... :uhoh:

Hiroyama is a fan of magical girls and drew some Nanoha doujins before he started on this series.

[Gx Hero]

That explains things, guy has good tastes in designing characters.
http://forums.animesuki.com/picture.php?albumid=4146&pictureid=53067

[Miraluka]

Can't see the picture.

[Sasukeuzi]

So, apparently 3rei is one of the comics on the free Comic Walker ap. It only has chapter 1 so far, but it's really nice. Only oddity I've seen so far is it spells Ruby as Rubi and Liz and Rizu (plus no honorifics, so onii-chan became brother), but otherwise it's great. It makes it more obvious that the Ainsworth are a parallel Einzbern, as it spells it Einsworth.

It kind of makes me laugh how they Japanify the pronounciation for Liz into Rizu, but they won't keep Onii-chan. I'd be glad if they kept up with the Japanese release, since we're a few chapters behind on fan translations?

[GDB]

We're actually only missing one chapter at the moment, I believe. Chapter 17, unless chapter 20 released recently.

[Gx Hero]

sorry my bad, must have been thinking of another series.

[APNki]

Spoilers for chapter 20 of 3rei: http://bosel.blog64.fc2.com/blog-entry-2687.html

Looks like Rin and Luvia are back to normal.

[Death Usagi]

Anyone feel Gilgamesh will return to his former adult form that we know from Fate/Stay Night or Fate/Zero later on in the manga then he tries to take the Holy Grail for himself and it is revealed Kirei will also take part (like the evil duo they were back in the original series)?

[Gx Hero]

Gilgamesh has his plans first off is to get his card back, then I am sure he will revert and do what he wants when he wants as he wants.

This simply means when he is bored and something catches his eye. Strangely enough he has two opportunities for the grail since both illya, Kuro,( I think) and Miyu are vessels for the grail.


I look forward to seeing the madness behind the ainsworth's revealed since there is something there that is almost a natural madness born of many years rather than some event.

[GDB]

That's a fancy fedora you got there, Gilgamesh.

[Kanon]

Wait, why does Saber Illya have rule breaker? Can you actually install a card and include another one?

[GDB]

Wait, why does Saber Illya have rule breaker? Can you actually install a card and include another one?

If she has both Ruby and Sapphire, I'd assume it's easily possible. And since Gil showed up now, and Kuro already had, it's reasonable to assume Ruby is there now too.

[GDB]

ROFL, so it seems that fancy fedora Gilgamesh is sporting is actually a Noble Phantasm.

It's the Helm of Darkness from Hades, and it's apparently the true form of the invisibility cloak that they used at the beginning of 3rei. Guess it's the one he gave to Perseus to fight Medusa.

[Gx Hero]

We don't know everything the cards can do. Wouldn't surprise me since she included more than one card but didn't use them in zwei.

[GDB]

It's as I suspected, she has both Ruby and Sapphire by the time she's dual wielding. She installed Saber on Ruby, and then included Caster on Sapphire.

[Kanon]

Nobody is scanlating the manga anymore :(

Gil freed Shirou. We might get to see Shirou x Kuro vs Angelica.

[FlareKnight]

Nobody is scanlating the manga anymore :(

Gil freed Shirou. We might get to see Shirou x Kuro vs Angelica.Good sense of irony :). Appears 17-19 just got translated and is out in the universe :). Not too far back now.

[GDB]

17-19 have been translated by Paitouch for like, 3+ months. The last activity on the series on the translation front was March 1st, and the raw for chapter 20 scanned on May 1st. Unless he gets bored of idols soon, we aren't likely to get any further chapters for a long while.

[Gx Hero]

I guess so. anyway thanks for the info on Kaledio dre chapters been lokoing for those.

[FlareKnight]

17-19 have been translated by Paitouch for like, 3+ months. The last activity on the series on the translation front was March 1st, and the raw for chapter 20 scanned on May 1st. Unless he gets bored of idols soon, we aren't likely to get any further chapters for a long while.Well considering I hadn't seen anything on those chapters in the last few months anyways, I'm not feeling much of a loss so far :).

All one can do is be patient in the end.

[novalysis]

After 19, I really think that Kuro will die at the end of this arc. Remember, both Miyu and Illya are Grails - if they were to work together, could it be possible that they could save the world, while ensuring both of them maintained independent identities from the Grail? I think this might well be the way Illya could take the third option of the world, and Miyu being saved simultaneously.

Of course, the cost of such an action might well be Kuro's sacrifice.

[Kanon]

Chapter 20 is out. Glad Paitouch didn't drop it.

Bazett and Gil are back and rescued Luvia and Rin. Things are looking up for our heroines... or are they? What's happening to Darius can't be good.

[GDB]

Paitouch just released chapter 21 too. Not sure if he reads these forums, but if he does, thank you.

Awesome chapter. Kuro being a boss without even doing much. Basically being the field general, directing the troops, taunting the boss, etc. Actually felt a little sorry for Erika this chapter.

[Death Usagi]

Do you think Shirou of the parallel world will be voiced by Sugiyama Noriaki or Suwabe Junichi?

[Shadow5YA]

Wait... Tanaka was drawing a cube? I thought it was a meteor :heh:

It sort of reminds me of the Moon Cell.

[Kanon]

Sweet, we're all caught up with the raws now. Thank you based Paitouch.

Next chapter should come out at the end of the month.

Do you think Shirou of the parallel world will be voiced by Sugiyama Noriaki or Suwabe Junichi?

Noriaki. Right now, it seems like he's 80% Shirou, 20% Archer.

[GDB]

Do you think Shirou of the parallel world will be voiced by Sugiyama Noriaki or Suwabe Junichi?

Sugiyama Noriaki. Miyu was able to recognize Illya's Shirou by voice alone, so they must sound the same.

[FlareKnight]

Even with a giant cube of death falling things are looking pretty up. The rescue of Miyu's brother is going smoothly, Miyu herself has Sapphire and is back in action, and the enemies hardly have the same calm of before so that's fun :).

I'd feel bad for Erika, if I didn't feel that girl was so warped. I certainly wouldn't want to be near that person. Probably best for Miyu to say that. After all that girl can only live within that family. If she acted like her friend would just be a temptation to go with Miyu and she wouldn't be able to act properly out there. Plus let's face it, getting Miyu to say anyone but Illya is her friend is a remarkably tough thing ;).

[Requiem-x]

Yes, finally caught up! Illyassassin is so cute :)

That was pretty harsh for Erika, but that girl is way too messed up to just say "sure, let's be friends", even in a magical girl show, and that's saying something.

I-Is Saver/Savior/Whatever gonna be the final boss? :heh:

[GDB]

I still anticipate some shenanigans from Kirei. It's still suspicious that he's alive and well in an otherwise desolate city.

[ukulelembo]

even in a magical girl show, and that's saying something.
Well, 3rei is already more Fate, than a magical girl show.

I still anticipate some shenanigans from Kirei. It's still suspicious that he's alive and well in an otherwise desolate city.
I have a feeling that... He turns out to be from Illya's world, and the fact that he is trapped in this world will be reason why fourth grail war in prisma ended differently and thus reason for this complete setting.

[Requiem-x]

Well, 3rei is already more Fate, than a magical girl show.

Still has a good dose of silliness, or maybe it's because I just came from the adventures of Illyabear :heh:

[ReddyRedWolf]

Well, 3rei is already more Fate, than a magical girl show.


I have a feeling that... He turns out to be from Illya's world, and the fact that he is trapped in this world will be reason why fourth grail war in prisma ended differently and thus reason for this complete setting.

There was no Grail War to begin with. 10 years ago was supposed to be the first one. Kiritsugu nipped it at the bud for his daughter's sake. By nipped I mean he wiped out the Einzberns.

Why do I get the feeling Tanaka is a Counter Guardian?

[ukulelembo]

Still has a good dose of silliness, or maybe it's because I just came from the adventures of Illyabear :heh:
Well, that's because despite current higher seriousness of story, Prisma is still partially comedy. And things like Illyabear are the just Hiroyama's way how avoid complete genre shift.

There was no Grail War to begin with. 10 years ago was supposed to be the first one. Kiritsugu nipped it at the bud for his daughter's sake. By nipped I mean he wiped out the Einzberns.
This is nonsense based on I don't know what. In the manga it's clearly stated that Holy Grail Wars normally happened in Prisma.
One example:
http://i.imgur.com/LHvQ5w4.png
Point is just that somethimg during Fourth War happened for some reason differently. And this led Kiritsugu and Irisviel to different decision which established the entire Prisma setting.

[ReddyRedWolf]

This is nonsense based on I don't know what. In the manga it's clearly stated that Holy Grail Wars normally happened in Prisma.
One example:
http://i.imgur.com/LHvQ5w4.png
Point is just that somethimg during Fourth War happened for some reason differently. And this led Kiritsugu and Irisviel to different decision which established the entire Prisma setting.

You are reading it out of context. That merely implies Rin's folks are involved. Fuyuki never had a history of Holy grail Wars.

The Einzberns cut themselves off from the rest of Mage society. Meaning they did not cooperate with Tousaka and Makiri 200 years ago. They were supposed to start the Grail War 10 years before. Kiritsugu and Iris stopped before the even ritual began.
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000016.pnghttp://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000017.pnghttp://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000018.pnghttp://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000019.png

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/05/06/f/read4fa66101425c2/img000009.pnghttp://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/05/06/f/read4fa66101425c2/img000013.pnghttp://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/05/06/f/read4fa66101425c2/img000014.pnghttp://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/05/06/f/read4fa66101425c2/img000015.png

[GDB]

This is nonsense based on I don't know what. In the manga it's clearly stated that Holy Grail Wars normally happened in Prisma.

Don't forget that even in normal Fate, the Fuyuki grail wars aren't the only ones that occur. They're just the only ones of enough importance and chance of achieving their goal through the use of the Master/Servant/Command Seal system, which the others lack (as they did not have the involvement of the main families).

For all we know, Rin is aware enough of them through these other wars and not based on anything that happened in Fuyuki itself.

[ukulelembo]

You are reading it out of context. That merely implies Rin's folks are involved.
No, I read exactly in the context. But you, as I see, didn't understand what they are talking about. So let's see....

The Einzberns cut themselves off from the rest of Mage society. Meaning they did not cooperate with Tousaka and Makiri 200 years ago.
Simple question. Where is stated that they cut themselves off exactly in 200 years ago? How do you know it wasn't just a ten years, for example? Moreover, the fact that it's directly stated that Tohsakas were involved in Grail War, directly contradicts this statement.

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000016.png
This image only proves that, Rin and Luvia know nothing about Einzberns and that Einzberns disappeared ten years ago, but nothing else.

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000017.png
Nothing different from original Fate.

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000018.png
Just part of Kuro's plot from 2wei.

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee8273a2acda/img000019.png
No more Holy Grail War? This just indicates that some war probably really occurred before.

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/05/06/f/read4fa66101425c2/img000014.png
This once again proves that at least first two wars must normally occur otherwise, they would not work that way.

http://img.batoto.net/comics/2012/05/06/f/read4fa66101425c2/img000015.png

Now read exactly what Irisviel says:
"10 years ago, it ended before anything happened."
This doesn't necessarily mean that the fourth war don't occurred, but rather that Kiritsugu was able to prevent its tragic result in some way (the fact that Shirou is still adopted proves that result still was not entirely without casualties).

"Kiritsugu is working hard right now to make sure it won't happen again."
Again a hint that SOMETHING happened!

[GDB]

Moreover, the fact that it's directly stated that Tohsakas were involved in Grail War, directly contradicts this statement.

No it wasn't. It was stated that they might have been without Rin's knowledge, and it'd have been weird if they hadn't been. That's not a direct confirmation of anything.

Now read exactly what Irisviel says:
"10 years ago, it ended before anything happened."
This doesn't necessarily mean that the fourth war don't occurred, but rather that Kiritsugu was able to prevent its tragic result in some way (the fact that Shirou is still adopted proves that result still was not entirely without casualties).

"Kiritsugu is working hard right now to make sure it won't happen again."
Again a hint that SOMETHING happened!

Before anything happened generally implies that it didn't occur. There's no way of knowing what Shirou's background is now, so him being adopted doesn't prove anything. After all, Irisviel needed to die to cause the fire.

[Requiem-x]

Well, that's because despite current higher seriousness of story, Prisma is still partially comedy. And things like Illyabear are the just Hiroyama's way how avoid complete genre shift.

Well, it worked way better than Tanaka being silly, I think.

Also, I guess "let's all be friends" it's such a classic mahou shoujo cliche that seeing it getting destroyed here is quite a shock.

[ReddyRedWolf]

No, I read exactly in the context. But you, as I see, didn't understand what they are talking about. So let's see....


No you don't understand the Holy Grail Wars did not occur in Fuyuki that it created a butterfly effect such as Rin's mother is not Aoi.


Simple question. Where is stated that they cut themselves off exactly in 200 years ago? How do you know it wasn't just a ten years, for example? Moreover, the fact that it's directly stated that Tohsakas were involved in Grail War, directly contradicts this statement.


Cause they have no contact with the rest of Mage society that they are virtually unknowns, Rin had to do a thorough investigation, unlike in Fate Stay where Einzberns are a well known Mage family. 200 years ago in Fate Stay they allied with the Tosaka and Makiri to reach the Root via the ritual of the Holy Grail in Fuyuki.

Rin reacted like that because there is no way a ritual like that can be done without her dad knowing as they are administrators of Fuyuki. Oh her dad is still very much alive.



This image only proves that, Rin and Luvia know nothing about Einzberns and that Einzberns disappeared ten years ago, but nothing else.

The Einzberns are famous in Fate Stay. In Fate Kalied they are hermits.


Nothing different from original Fate.


Rin said she is Japanese on her father's side. Kiritsugu, Iris and Tokiomi are alive.


Just part of Kuro's plot from 2wei.


If you have not noticed Iris and Illya are not homunculus. Illya in FSN was 18 years old not 10 years old.


No more Holy Grail War? This just indicates that some war probably really occurred before.


You are twisting words because you can't provide any evidence. You watched Fate Zero thinking it applies to Fate Kalied verse. When things are very different as evidenced by another parallel world.


This once again proves that at least first two wars must normally occur otherwise, they would not work that way.


They are talking about the ritual you dolt.


Now read exactly what Irisviel says:
"10 years ago, it ended before anything happened."
This doesn't necessarily mean that the fourth war don't occurred, but rather that Kiritsugu was able to prevent its tragic result in some way (the fact that Shirou is still adopted proves that result still was not entirely without casualties).

"Kiritsugu is working hard right now to make sure it won't happen again."
Again a hint that SOMETHING happened!

There is no fourth war as it is supposed to be the first one.

Evidence of that is Gil never being in the Kalied verse before and only brought along with Miyu there.

[ukulelembo]

...as Rin's mother is not Aoi.
Source?


Cause they have no contact with the rest of Mage society that they are virtually unknowns, Rin had to do a thorough investigation, unlike in Fate Stay where Einzberns are a well known Mage family.
Well, they are unknown to Rin, but are you sure that The Association really doesn't know anything about them? Rin's unfamiliarity doesn't mean much of anything.

Oh her dad is still very much alive.
How do you know that? Source?

Rin reacted like that because there is no way a ritual like that can be done without her dad knowing as they are administrators of Fuyuki.
How do you know that Tokiomi simply doesn't say her anything?

Rin said she is Japanese on her father's side. Kiritsugu, Iris and Tokiomi are alive.
This is based on a mistranslation. Tokiomi is dead.
(Here is a page with the correct translation of Rin's line (http://i.imgur.com/HHfAcaj.png))

If you have not noticed Iris and Illya are not homunculus. Illya in FSN was 18 years old not 10 years old.
Your biggest nonsense yet. Source?

You are twisting words because you can't provide any evidence.
Contrast to you creating misinformations non-based on anything.
Show your evidences.

You watched Fate Zero thinking it applies to Fate Kalied verse. When things are very different as evidenced by another parallel world.
Surprise! I didn't watch Fate/Zero. But read a many background informations and character materials. So I think I understand how Nasuverse works.

They are talking about the ritual you dolt.
You probably don't know how Grail War worked before the second war, right?

There is no fourth war as it is supposed to be the first one.
Again, where is stated which war should happen in Prisma ten years ago?

Evidence of that is Gil never being in the Kalied verse before and only brought along with Miyu there.
That proves just that Prisma Gil isn't fourth war Gil. Nothing more.

[GDB]

This is based on a mistranslation. Tokiomi is dead.
(Here is a page with the correct translation of Rin's line (http://i.imgur.com/HHfAcaj.png))

That doesn't prove Tokiomi is dead at all.

Your biggest nonsense yet. Source?

Not sure where he got the non-homunculus thing, but Illya is definitely only 11 years old (remember, her birthday is during 2wei). Kuro's memories of 10 years ago, combined with the story of how Kiritsugu and Irisviel ended the ritual 10 years ago, all prove that Illya was an infant at that time.

Contrast to you creating misinformations non-based on anything.
Show your evidences.

Do you realize that you're both posturing information based on your own perceptions of the material? Material that is deliberately loose and ambiguous so as to not tie the author down in case he wants to expand it further later?

Again, where is stated which war should happen in Prisma ten years ago?

That can be turned right back around on you, as again the material is deliberately loose with information on the past.

[ukulelembo]

That doesn't prove Tokiomi is dead at all.
There are two big hints that Tokiomi is dead. First, it's apparent that Rin lives alone (if her parents are alive, then why), secondly if Tokiomi would be alive then it very likely that Rin would had very different personality.

Not sure where he got the non-homunculus thing, but Illya is definitely only 11 years old (remember, her birthday is during 2wei). Kuro's memories of 10 years ago, combined with the story of how Kiritsugu and Irisviel ended the ritual 10 years ago, all prove that Illya was an infant at that time.
Primarily Illya's physical age doesn't correspond with her temporal age. I agree that her physical and mental age in Prisma is about ten years thanks her memory seal, but there is no indication about her temporal age, because we don't know exactly when her memory was sealed (Kuro's flashback don't specify this).

Material that is deliberately loose and ambiguous so as to not tie the author down in case he wants to expand it further later?
Here I just say that I agree with this concrete statement.

[hinode]

Kiritsugu flat-out says that Illya is eight months old when her memories are sealed in 2wei C10.

[GDB]

There are two big hints that Tokiomi is dead. First, it's apparent that Rin lives alone (if her parents are alive, then why), secondly if Tokiomi would be alive then it very likely that Rin would had very different personality.

Rin studies at the Clock Tower. There's no reason Tokiomi has to live in Fuyuki if he's alive. And him being alive doesn't have to change her personality at all, since fans wouldn't like that. Rin's popular for being Rin, not for looking like Rin while being someone completely different. This has no bearing on Tokiomi being alive or dead.

Primarily Illya's physical age doesn't correspond with her temporal age. I agree that her physical and mental age in Prisma is about ten years thanks her memory seal, but there is no indication about her temporal age, because we don't know exactly when her memory was sealed (Kuro's flashback don't specify this).

...what does that even mean? What is a "temporal" age? And if you look at her hands, she's clearly VERY young. Further, she doesn't say anything to Irisviel, despite having basically all the knowledge she does now. She'd know what was about to happen, but she didn't say anything nor try to stop it. That implies she was too young to do anything, which would be between birth and 2 years old (infancy). So, at most, they lied and she's 1 year older than she actually is. There's no reason to lie about 1 year.

She certainly wasn't 7 years old when sealed. Especially not sitting in a cradle still.

[Gx Hero]

A valid reason but I think there is more to it since Darius seems to be from the parrallel world but the grail war what ever you want to call it isn't and somehow got there.

[ReddyRedWolf]

There are two big hints that Tokiomi is dead. First, it's apparent that Rin lives alone (if her parents are alive, then why), secondly if Tokiomi would be alive then it very likely that Rin would had very different personality.

Rin's parents are very much alive.
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee82fa79e517/img000004.png

She lives alone because she is a Clock tower student. In terms of Magi she is already a college student.

Plus would you be crawling to your parents for money because you spent it on useless fighting?

Rin if anything has her pride. Wjich is why she is enduring her maid job.



Primarily Illya's physical age doesn't correspond with her temporal age. I agree that her physical and mental age in Prisma is about ten years thanks her memory seal, but there is no indication about her temporal age, because we don't know exactly when her memory was sealed (Kuro's flashback don't specify this).


Kuro is a Grail personality that the Einzberns has been working on for generations. The Einzbern accelerated Illya's mental faculties turning her to the grail vessel.

She really is a 10-11 year old girl.

Illya was artificially induced to be a grail vessel unlike Miyu who is a natural born grail vessel.

When Kuro separated Illya lost her wish granting power.



Fate Kaleid verse is parallel world. Some things are familiar but they radically different in the setting.

[ukulelembo]

Kiritsugu flat-out says that Illya is eight months old when her memories are sealed in 2wei C10.
Yes, her memories were sealed when she was 8 months old. But we don't know when exactly she was born in Prisma. Therefore, we even don't know when exactly this flashback happened.

And him being alive doesn't have to change her personality at all, since fans wouldn't like that. Rin's popular for being Rin, not for looking like Rin while being someone completely different. This has no bearing on Tokiomi being alive or dead.
Well there is the reason why Rin has a personality which she has. And part of that reason is death of her parents. Yeah, this isn't completely direct proof, but if Tokiomi is alive, then Hiroyama will have to explain Rin's personality.

...what does that even mean? What is a "temporal" age?
I mean age from the time perspective. As I say above we don't know when exactly Illya was born in prismaverse. Therefore, we don't know how exactly she is old in terms of time. Yeah she looks physically and mentally very young, but this can be easily explained her homunculus nature and memory seal.

Rin's parents are very much alive.
http://img.batoto.net/comics/2011/12/14/f/read4ee82fa79e517/img000004.png
That proves only that she can live in her parents' house, but where is your proof that her parents are alive. :D

Kuro is a Grail personality that the Einzberns has been working on for generations. The Einzbern accelerated Illya's mental faculties turning her to the grail vessel.

She really is a 10-11 year old girl.
From the physical and mental aspects yes, but in terms of time who knows?

Fate Kaleid verse is parallel world. Some things are familiar but they radically different in the setting.
In Nasuverse if something exists within world, then its origin is usually same or at least very similar. In terms of Prismaverse we see a lot of familiar characters, which means that they must have same or similar past as their original Fate counterparts. If something happened drastically differently, then it usually very apparent on character. The main question is just where and what exactly is diverge point in Prismaverse.

[Random Wanderer]

Yes, her memories were sealed when she was 8 months old. But we don't know when exactly she was born in Prisma. Therefore, we even don't know when exactly this flashback happened.

She was sealed at 8 months old. She remained sealed for 10 years (stated by Iris: Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya, chapter 13). She had a birthday in 2wei. She is 11 years old.

I have never seen a person argue so hard when every fact in existence proves him wrong. :eyebrow:

[GDB]

Yes, her memories were sealed when she was 8 months old. But we don't know when exactly she was born in Prisma. Therefore, we even don't know when exactly this flashback happened.

Memories sealed 10 years ago.
Illya was 8 months old when sealed. Flashback happened moments before she was sealed.

Therefore, she was born just under 11 years ago.

I mean age from the time perspective. As I say above we don't know when exactly Illya was born in prismaverse. Therefore, we don't know how exactly she is old in terms of time. Yeah she looks physically and mentally very young, but this can be easily explained her homunculus nature and memory seal.

Yes, we do know how old she is and when she was born.

That proves only that she can live in her parents' house, but where is your proof that her parents are alive. :D

Falls back on you too, where's your proof that they're dead?

From the physical and mental aspects yes, but in terms of time who knows?

We do, because it's stated in the series and you're just ignoring it for some reason. It's like... literally the only concrete aspect of the history of the Prisma world, and you're arguing against it.

[ukulelembo]

She was sealed at 8 months old. She remained sealed for 10 years (stated by Iris: Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya, chapter 13).
Well, that conversation is about keeping of her powers. But it still doesn't prove that flashback really occurred in same time (by the way, that reminds me, why maybe this conversation was changed in anime). :D

I have never seen a person argue so hard when every fact in existence proves him wrong. :eyebrow:

Where are that your facts? I only see a number of assumptions non-confirmed by anything particular.

Memories sealed 10 years ago.

Yes, we do know how old she is and when she was born.
Source?

Falls back on you too, where's your proof that they're dead?
Because it's the simplest explanation for Rin's personality. If they are alive, then there will be need for more explanations about Rin's character background and I highly doubt that we ever get that. Not mention that their complete absence in manga doesn't indicate much about them to be alive.

We do, because it's stated in the series and you're just ignoring it for some reason.
WHERE?
As you said before everything about past in Prisma is currently too vague and ambiguous. Primarily we still don't know what exactly happened ten years ago and what was Prisma's diverge point from main timeline.

It's like... literally the only concrete aspect of the history of the Prisma world, and you're arguing against it.
I only proceed from the fact that Prismaverse is still part of Nasuverse and, unless is stated otherwise there are always some things that applies in all worlds of this universe. Such as the origins of the characters which I mentioned above.

[GDB]

Source?

The manga, which has been stated and shown already. You're explicitly ignoring it for no reason. What's your source for denying it? What aspect are you even denying?

Is it that the memories were sealed 10 years ago, as stated by both Kuro and Irisviel?

Is it that she was 8 months old when they were sealed, as stated by Kiritsugu and demonstrated by Kuro's memory (seriously, she has infantile hands and is in a cradle)?

Because it's the simplest explanation for Rin's personality. If they are alive, then there will be need for more explanations about Rin's character background and I highly doubt that we ever get that. Not mention that their complete absence in manga doesn't indicate much about them to be alive.

That's conjecture, not proof. Shirou's personality is pretty much the same, minus the magi bit, despite having a different upbringing. It's a meta decision that has no actual impact on the material at all, because these are the characters we know and love.

WHERE?

It's been linked and stated multiple times already. You're ignoring it, so there's no point in relinking or restating it.

I only proceed from the fact that Prismaverse is still part of Nasuverse and, unless is stated otherwise there are always some things that applies in all worlds of this universe. Such as the origins of the characters which I mentioned above.

Except it is stated that Illya's different from the normal universe. And really, you can't say "some things apply to all worlds" when it doesn't. It doesn't apply to Kara no Kyoukai. It doesn't apply to Fate/Apocrypha. It doesn't apply to Fate/Extra. Fate/Zero literally only applies to Fate/Stay Night, and possibly (though has no impact on) Tsukihime and Mahoutsukai no Yoru.

We know Shirou's backstory is different to some extent too, since there wasn't a cataclysm caused by the end of the 4th war. After all, that couldn't happen while Irisviel is still alive.

Either way, I'm done arguing this unless you actually bring counter proof to the table instead of just dismissing everyone else's claims when they present proof that doesn't agree with your world view.

[ukulelembo]

The manga, which has been stated and shown already.
Where?

You're explicitly ignoring it for no reason. What's your source for denying it? What aspect are you even denying?
Because you still didn't show me anything that directly and precisely states what and when in prisma happened. All we have are only indirect hints.


Is it that the memories were sealed 10 years ago, as stated by both Kuro and Irisviel?

By Kuro where, and Irisviel talked about keeping Illya's powers not memory seal. How do you know that Kuro's flashback wasn't just part of larger events which lasted for a longer period of time?

That's conjecture, not proof.
Maybe, but that's best what we have. Until, there won't be at least one indication that Tokiomi and Aoi are really alive.

Shirou's personality is pretty much the same, minus the magi bit, despite having a different upbringing.
Shirou isn't exactly the same. Except that he doesn't know anything about magic it also seems that he is lack of his ambitions to become hero.

It's a meta decision that has no actual impact on the material at all, because these are the characters we know and love.
This is exactly the logic with which I disagree. All changes always have some impact on setting and characters and if something is the same, is always stated or at least implied why.

Except it is stated that Illya's different from the normal universe.
Sure, but her origin is same or similar. Unless you don't want to say that Prisma Illya isn't Illya but an entirely different character like Rin in Extra.


And really, you can't say "some things apply to all worlds" when it doesn't.
As long as we're talking about PARALLEL worlds, there are always "some things that you can apply to all worlds" because those are the basic pillars of that universe.

It doesn't apply to Kara no Kyoukai. It doesn't apply to Fate/Apocrypha. It doesn't apply to Fate/Extra. Fate/Zero literally only applies to Fate/Stay Night, and possibly (though has no impact on) Tsukihime and Mahoutsukai no Yoru.

That's not true. Fate/Extra and Fate/Apocrypha have clearly stated diverge points from main timeline and the reasons for these differences. Kara no Kyoukai has Touko, Tsukihime has Arcueid. But this would be for deeper explanation.
The main thing is that the main aspects of Nasuverse don't change for no reason.

when they present proof that doesn't agree with your world view.
What proof? I still have not seen a single from you.

[ReddyRedWolf]

I have never seen a person argue so hard when every fact in existence proves him wrong. :eyebrow:

He just read the Fate wiki thinking he knows the story. When in fact he didn't read Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya at all.

Now he is backed to a corner and wont admit he is wrong out of pride.



Because you still didn't show me anything that directly and precisely states what and when in prisma happened. All we have are only indirect hints.


We presented out evidence where is yours? In discussion and debate it is given that to refute and rebut one cites evidence to prove his or her position.

All you have been doing is denying without providing proof. Which goes against forum guidelines.

[The Green One]

So anyway, not that all this arguing isn't completely riveting if I wasn't being sarcastic, which I am, chapters 20 and 21 have been translated and released for 3rei. We may be starting the climax here.

[ukulelembo]

He just read the Fate wiki thinking he knows the story.
Like Fate wiki was the only possible and trustworthy source. :rolleyes:

When in fact he didn't read Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya at all.
Sure, you know much better what I read and what not. :rolleyes:

Now he is backed to a corner and wont admit he is wrong out of pride.

We presented out evidence...
You're not presented single irrefutable proof. All your "proofs" are just indirect hints that you immediately consider to be related each other without a any reason. Not mention that some are just work of poor translation (Rin being half-japanese) and some completely invented (Illya and Irisviel not being homunculi, Rin's parents being alive).
How for example do you know that all hints about Illya's past happened simultaneously?

...where is yours?
In discussion and debate it is given that to refute and rebut one cites evidence to prove his or her position.
Point is that this story is part of Nasuverse and there is still some inner logic. No change is without reason (unless you change something directly in Root, but that then somehow affects all worlds). And the same character can't have a completely different origin just at most heavily modified. And unless you want deny Prismaverse as a fully fledged part of Nasuverse you can't ignore how Nasuverse works. All Fate spin-offs usually have some diverge point from main timeline caused by either influence from another world or some change in Root. Until now, we don't know what exactly is diverge point for Prismaverse. But we know that there is a lot of familiar characters, which means that diverge point in Prisma can't be something so big as in Extra or Apocrypha. But still significant enough to change character development into what we see at beginning of story.
So far, what we definitely know is that Illya lived a normal life and Kiritsugu and Irisviel are alive, which means that diverge point must occurred sometime before fourth grail war, but after third grail war, because most of our characters exists (without the Third War characters like Rin, Luvia, Sakura and probably even Irisviel would most likely didn't exist). Furthermore, there is Waver as El-Melloi II which means that either fourth grail war somehow partially occurred or there were some different events with similar results for him. Next Rin and Luvia knows nothing about Einzbern and the last mention of them which Rin found is from 10 years ago. Currently hard to say exactly what happened 10 years ago, but I'll bet that someone erased all record about Einzbern's existence for some reason. Anyway, from here it's really just speculations. Maybe I can be wrong in some things, because the events from ten years ago are still too ambiguous, but definitely there won't be such drastic changes like complete non existence of Fuyuki's Grail Wars or non-homunculi Illya and Irisviel, because in context of characters and Nasuverse it doesn't make sense. Of course, if you want to say that Prismaverse is completely outside Nasuverse then this all loses meaning, because we don't argue what is true in Prisma, but whether is Prismaverse fully fledged part of Nasuverse or not. And I'm not really in the mood for another Canon x Non-canon flame war.

All you have been doing is denying without providing proof. Which goes against forum guidelines.
Yeah, give me ban. That will solve everything and make your claims true. :eyespin:

[ReddyRedWolf]

Nasu didn't write write Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya. Its a spin-off written by another guy. So being a know it all using Fate Stay is useless. As Fate is a franchise with many spin-off novels, games and parodies.

If you have not noticed its an alternate universe where events are different.

Essentially its an official doujin manga.

That said put up or shut up. If you won't provide evidence to prove your assertions you've already lost the debate.

[ukulelembo]

Nasu didn't write write Fate Kaleid Liner Prisma Illya. .... Essentially its an official doujin manga.
Confirmed Canon x Non-canon flame. Oh god why? Why this sh*t again!

That said put up or shut up. If you won't provide evidence to prove your assertions you've already lost the debate.
I'd rather shut up, because I had this kind of discussion several times (even here) because always appeared some new nescient guy that started discussion again from the beginning. Result was always the same: "Everything from official works is canon" even Prisma. I won't still repeat the same thing like many times before. Either try find an old discussion or think whatever you want. I have already sick of this Canon x Non-canon debate.

[Eisdrache]

Could you guys take this to PM? It's getting very annoying by both sides.

[Dark Wing]

Anyway getting back on topic.

The manga's story has been progressing fairly quickly seeing how we're nearing what seems to be the final confrontation with the fate of both Miyu and The World hanging in the balance.

At this point one has to wonder is the mangaka putting the plot on fast-forward to get this arc done before season two of the anime ends?

[GDB]

Not sure why he'd need to. It'd be another year, minimum, before 3rei would be animated. And that's assuming the absolute quickest possible turn around. That's more than 50% longer than 3rei as a whole so far.

[Dark Wing]

Not sure why he'd need to. It'd be another year, minimum, before 3rei would be animated. And that's assuming the absolute quickest possible turn around. That's more than 50% longer than 3rei as a whole so far.

Well we didn't even know there would be a season two until the very end of season one so I reasoned he may have gotten a heads up that if material is ready another season would be promised.

Of course this is just a guess I could be absolutely wrong...:heh:

[GDB]

Possible, but it's likely 2wei is split cour anyway, so he wouldn't have to worry about that until March (assuming it goes Prisma/Stay Night/Prisma/Stay Night). Even then, with 3rei being about as long as 2wei, if not longer, he'd only need enough material for a first cour and be able to guarantee enough for its split cour by the time that'd be ready.

[Dark Wing]

A split cour would make a lot more sense. They could end season two with that massive cliffhanger and then have enough material ready for third season.

[GDB]

Chapter 22 is out. Kotomine raising boss flags, more information on the enemy is revealed, and... I really hope that wasn't a death flag for Kuro. Please don't kill Kuro. :(

[The Green One]

Kuro's death would be a tragedy indeed, but this final boss character definitely has an axe hovering over her neck with this ability, the slightest touch and it's over...... Or perhaps this will become an opportunity for Kuro to lose her dependency on the card......

Though Darius and Erika's interactions now have a new level of squick involved......

[Myssa Rei]

WHAT A TWEEST.

Wow, these two (http://imgur.com/a/vsDUb)chapters (http://imgur.com/a/CQZkb). Wow.

So it's Darius, and yet it's NOT Darius, but his son Julian?

[ReddyRedWolf]

"Nooo...I've learned something I didn't want to learn about our enemies again!"- Illya

LOL

[Kanon]

That page with Kotomine was such a tease.

People have been speculating Darius was Julian, so I wasn't all that surprised by this revelation, but it's still pretty funny.

[Shadow5YA]

Who needs to get yourself involved in complicated magecraft and politics when you've already found your calling as a simple mapo tofu chef? :heh:

With Darius revealed to be dead, I really think Julian's aim is to revive Darius as a Heroic Spirit by making him infamous.

[novalysis]

Death Flags are now toiling for Kuro. Card Destruction - ouch.

I suspect what's going to happen, is that Julian breaks the Archer Card in Kuro - but doing so restores Illya's full power, which results in Illya cleaning up.

And then, Tanaka would execute her purpose. I wonder - is Tanaka a Counter Guardian, sent by Gaia to eliminate Julian?

[aeriolewinters]

Chloe will 'die' but I think once Julian gets defeated, everything that was lost will be brought back

[tuckersister]

I wouldn't be surprised if Saber actually show up (for real) toward the end part of the chapters. It would definite be awesome if Illya incidentally resurrected her.

[The Green One]

Can you ever put her in the story without making it look like you're pandering to the Saber fans? Somehow I doubt it, I could accept it if it's well written, but otherwise it sounds like a bad idea.

[Xero8420]

Chloe will 'die' but I think once Julian gets defeated, everything that was lost will be brought back

No! I don't want Chloe to die. :(

I wonder... Could the Ainsworth be related to the Einzbern? Since both do share some similarities such as making dolls.

That page with Kotomine was such a tease.

People have been speculating Darius was Julian, so I wasn't all that surprised by this revelation, but it's still pretty funny.

The berserker doll is being a fangirl of Handsome Julian has left a hint long time ago. Not to mentioned she slipped out his identity from her mouth in the previous chapter (which was clearly obvious). Damn, something tells me that she actually has a fangirl crush on her master all along. :heh:

[tuckersister]

Can you ever put her in the story without making it look like you're pandering to the Saber fans? Somehow I doubt it, I could accept it if it's well written, but otherwise it sounds like a bad idea.

Ok, maybe that's too much. But a silhouette of Saber toward the last part of this series isn't bad. 3rei will end soon and open up the last part of the series with deals with Illya's actions in 3rei. I'm not a Saber fan yet. I only just got interested in it a couple months ago. A friend of mines is the ACTUAL Saber fan (he's also a Illya fan too). He told all the Fate stuff and kaleid liner series. He has a lot of Saber/Illya pictures, even one that other people drew. I do find Saber an interesting character. I don't what type of relation Saber has with Illya in the original series, but putting the "real" Saber in the part of the kaleid liner series (even if its an image) probably would hurt. Also, I wonder Illya's Drei form would look like. It's probably formed from Ruby, Sapphire and Kuro.

[aeriolewinters]

No! I don't want Chloe to die. :(



I don't want it to happen too, but she's collected some flags, What I do hope is that she somehow ends up being

Saber Class as Nero.

[tuckersister]

Someone told me that Miyu is basically the same character spot for Saber. Also, he said he wouldn't be surprised if Miyu actually becomes a Saber Class for real (excluding Excalibur). So basically Miyu services as the "Saber" in this manga storyline sort of (still trying make sense what he mean by "sharing the same role".) 3rei will soon come to a close in the next several months, will probably introduce fourth and final arc which dealing Illya in her world. I think Illya will become a Holy Grail and save Miyu's world inadvertently beginning the Holy Grail war in her world.

[Kanon]

Aside from her using the Saber card twice, I don't see any connection between Saber and Miyu. If anything, she has more in common with Sakura in 3rei.

[Gx Hero]

Saber won't appear it is just wishful thinking. Earlier someone mentioned that the next arc would be the last arch I hope or second to last since it can't go on for more than at worst two more arcs without becoming stale.

I agree the next arc may have more to do with Illaya's being a holy grail and that it brings everything to a close.


On a funner note imagine if Illya prisma had to face her fate stay night counter part. Hilarity? Horror? GIven the fact of how cold and cruel the fate stay illya is compared to the Prisma one it may be actually hilarious if there was a story involving the two.

[ReddyRedWolf]

On a funner note imagine if Illya prisma had to face her fate stay night counter part. Hilarity? Horror? GIven the fact of how cold and cruel the fate stay illya is compared to the Prisma one it may be actually hilarious if there was a story involving the two.

Already happened in All Around Type Moon.

[novalysis]

Already happened in All Around Type Moon.

But, what if Archer Kuro was to meet Archer Shiro?:heh:

[Kanon]

Already happened in All Around Type Moon.

Sadly, this was only one panel. We need a whole chapter!

[tuckersister]

Aside from her using the Saber card twice, I don't see any connection between Saber and Miyu. If anything, she has more in common with Sakura in 3rei.

Which Sakura?

Also if Miyu does become a Saber class in some way, what's the reaction?

[The Green One]

Still feels like pandering. Saber has no connection to this story whatsoever except for a brief cameo as the beserk saber card. Trying to force her into it just seems silly.

[Kanon]

Which Sakura?

F/SN Sakura. I'll put it under spoiler tags, just in case.

Both grails, both tortured for years by their foster "dad", both damsel in distress in their own arc (though Sakura was more "active").

[tuckersister]

Still feels like pandering. Saber has no connection to this story whatsoever except for a brief cameo as the beserk saber card. Trying to force her into it just seems silly.

I said Miyu will be her OWN variation of a Saber Class, nothing to do with the Saber character. One way or another Miyu probably be participation in Illya's Holy Grail war in the next arc (if it happens...very likely it will). If Miyu fights in the Illya's Grail war, it's likely she will be Saber class or some other class. Who knows? 3rei will end in 2 to 3 months.

[hinode]

3rei volume 6 was announced (http://prisma-illya.jp/portal/archives/1271) for next April as another OAD bundle with volume 5 not out yet, so it's definately not ending in 2-3 months. :heh:

[Shadow5YA]

I said Miyu will be her OWN variation of a Saber Class, nothing to do with the Saber character. One way or another Miyu probably be participation in Illya's Holy Grail war in the next arc (if it happens...very likely it will). If Miyu fights in the Illya's Grail war, it's likely she will be Saber class or some other class. Who knows? 3rei will end in 2 to 3 months.

But... Miyu isn't even a swordsman. Why would she be Saber class at all?

[tuckersister]

She could train to be a swordsman (it would good fit within the next arc, she training to be own Hero Class).


If not Saber class, then what class best suits her?

Also, I was making a guess when it will end. I will be soon. 2wei lasted 27 chapters, so we will find out in 5 more chapters.

[Gx Hero]

Well it has nothing to do with personality but rather what weapons they used during life and how they used them. For instance Gilgamesh and Future Shiro/ Archer had swords but had a habit of throwing them at their foes thus they were archer class, though probably could have been summoned in Saber class.


In short Miyu and Illya would be caster class. though their noble phantasm might be the card inclusion that they wielded.

[Kanon]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy IT'S HAPPENING

http://i.imgur.com/P2owCkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bC1d1Ok.jpg

[GDB]

Hadn't seen that second one yet. Badass.

[Lantzsucks]

This show suks

[The Green One]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy IT'S HAPPENING

http://i.imgur.com/P2owCkz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bC1d1Ok.jpg

Oh snap, big bro is getting pissed! Let's see how gar this version of Emiya truly is.

[ukulelembo]

Oh boy oh boy oh boy IT'S HAPPENING
http://i.imgur.com/P2owCkz.jpg
"Rho Aias!"

http://i.imgur.com/bC1d1Ok.jpg
"If you're going to kill one for the sake of all, I'll stand in your way any number of times. Are you prepared, hero of justice?"

[tuckersister]

Emiya kind of looks like a berserker. Though the attack used "Rho Aias" is Archer's.

[Bogart]

I didn't think it was possible for a male character (outside of an antagonist) to be a badass in a mahou shoujo series...

[GDB]

Chapter is scanlated now by paitouch.

Holy **** that was a great chapter. Everything was superb. And they aren't crocking out by having no one but Miyu know what happened. Everyone saw it except maybe Bazette.

[The Green One]

*read the chapter* Damn...... there are just no other words, Shirou actually gave me the chills in this chapter. Not animating this someday would be a sin. *reads again*

[Kaengel]

WHAT THE !

I was expecting something like this. But how can I look at this chapter ?! It's too epic for my eyes Oo.

[Kanon]

Alt Shirou's entrance did not disappoint. He's way up there with HF Shirou on the GAR scale, possibly even higher. And he's the most overpowered incarnation of Shirou so far. He can project divine constructs like it's nothing!

I was hoping we'd get to learn his real name, but he's still called Emiya. I guess Kerry adopted both him and Miyu in this universe, which makes Miyu's name Emiya as well.

The reactions of the girls were entertaining. Illya knows how Miyu felt back in 2wei now.

[kenshinstyle]

No matter the dimension Shirou's in, even if its a mahoushoujoverse, he will still be GAR.

[ReddyRedWolf]

No matter the dimension Shirou's in, even if its a mahoushoujoverse, he will still be GAR.

That is not Prismaverse Shirou.:heh:

Anyway I feel sorry for Erika. Miyu thought the Ainsworth will protect her, not really. Now she is covered by that mud.

Angelica seems to react to Julian's spiel he is the only one there for Erika. Just a wild theory... Angelica is the real Erika. Either grown up or she moved her personality to an adult body. Leaving a blank slate which Julian twisted.

Shirou Emiya willing to take in all the evil in the world? Are we sure it isn't an imposter? wink* wink*

[Bogart]

It's not Avenger.

[kenshinstyle]

That is not Prismaverse Shirou.:heh:

Yeah, but still from Miyu's world so.

[Shadow5YA]

I was hoping we'd get to learn his real name, but he's still called Emiya. I guess Kerry adopted both him and Miyu in this universe, which makes Miyu's name Emiya as well.

I thought Miyu was just the biological daughter in place of Ilya in that world.

[GDB]

Miyu's natural, though. Illya's still basically manufactured. We have no idea how things went down in Miyu's world. For all we know, Miyu is Shirou's biological sister and Kiritsugu rescued both of them from whatever caused him to need to adopt Shirou.

I wouldn't be surprised if we were purposely never told, like with the details of Archer's life.

[FlareKnight]

Still, that was some impressive GAR levels from Shirou in this chapter. Guess he's ready to cut loose after all that time being locked up. Time for some serious payback for all that Miyu has been forced to go through.

Of course no way he actually settles this whole thing himself. In the end this is still about the girls, but at the very least Shirou should get a chance to make a major contribution out there.

A nice surprise chapter though. Both in the army being released against them and Shirou hitting the scene at full force. Still a few more players that can jump into this and really make for some good chaos. Of course will somehow need to fix this situation even after winning the immediate fight.

[tuckersister]

Tanaka hasn't returned to the story yet and will probably appear soon. Miyu maybe natural, but don't forget who are the Einzberns and their capability.

[Xero8420]

Wait... Are you sure Miyu and Shirou are blood-related? Cause Shirou is not biological in that world either, while Miyu could be Kerry's biological child (and maybe Maiya's love child).

[GDB]

No idea, that's why I said like three times that we have no way of knowing what actually happened.

[The Green One]

Who knows if they're blood related or not. It's clear enough that they mutually consider each other family. We'll probably get an answer as more of Miyu's backstory comes to light.

[Xero8420]

Soon, we shall see Shirou unleash the NB and the UBW to the MAX! :cool:

Speaking of Shirou... Due to the GAR-ness that Shirou demonstrated in this chapter, I got a feeling that it would tempt an assertion for both Rin & Luvia to train Shirou once they get back to the original world, as well as strengthen their crush even more. :heh:

And that may also lead Illya to see her onii-chan in the new light once she get back. :heh:

So... Miyu confirmed in Shirou's harem? :heh:

[Bogart]

Miyu has true platonic sisterly affection for her big brother.

[The Green One]

Well he was the only light in Miyu's dark cruel world until he managed to send her to Illya's world, so I'm sure she loves him dearly. Her reactions in this chapter made it quite clear.

[Xero8420]

Miyu has true platonic sisterly affection for her big brother.

But how would she see him in Illya's world version? That's what I'm asking.

[Kanon]

Wait... Are you sure Miyu and Shirou are blood-related? Cause Shirou is not biological in that world either, while Miyu could be Kerry's biological child (and maybe Maiya's love child).

http://i.imgur.com/kdML2J1.jpg

Shirou and Miyu are the only two Fate characters with that extra circle around their pupil (sometimes it's a full circle, sometimes it's like in the pic above). Not to mention their eyes are the exact same colors.

I'm 90% sure they're blood related. It seems like a nice way to make Miyu relevant to the overall Fate verse too.

[Bogart]

My mind is blown.

[Xero8420]

http://i.imgur.com/kdML2J1.jpg

Shirou and Miyu are the only two Fate characters with that extra circle around their pupil (sometimes it's a full circle, sometimes it's like in the pic above). Not to mention their eyes are the exact same colors.

I'm 90% sure they're blood related. It seems like a nice way to make Miyu relevant to the overall Fate verse too.

Nooooooo~! D:

Then that might be incest route unlocked once this arc is over. :heh:

[Bogart]

Why are the big brothers born first? So that they can protect the little brothers and sisters that come after!

[tuckersister]

Gil mentions that same way as his night counterpart (I think) that he consider Shirou a "fake" as the same to Archer.

I also wonder if Avalon will appear in kaleid liner. It is connect to Einzbern. Maybe it is sealed in Illya. Imagine Illya install the Saber Class Card while using the "real" Avalon. Who knows, it's an idea anyway.

[Bogart]

Shirou and Archer could be considered to be "fakes" in a number of ways though. Their skill-sets (fake weapons), their classes conflicting with Gil's, being adopted, having artificial hearts.

[jeroz]

I'm waiting for Iris and Kiri to break the parallel universe as well, followed by normal Shirou showing that he can also do UBW.

I know it's impossible, but just entertain the thoughts of having double UBW

[The Green One]

Still it should be interesting to see Luvia and Rin act around Illya's Shirou now that they've had a chance to see what he's truly capable of as a Mage.

[Xero8420]

Still it should be interesting to see Luvia and Rin act around Illya's Shirou now that they've had a chance to see what he's truly capable of as a Mage.

You know what I'm thinking? I'm thinking that after the two witnessed (and maybe went Gaga on) Miyu's Shirou's GAR-ness, they would be tempted to train Illya's Shirou to become like him once they get back. There, Illya's Shirou will go through another "fukou da" path once more. :heh:

But, it may be setting up for the 4th season, if possible. With Shirou facing off Kirei.

Nevertheless, they would probably see Shirou in the new light.

[aeriolewinters]

The use of Avalon in Illya is a good theory IF Illya is still a Hommunculus, theoretically, it would prevent the problems that FSN Illya has; specially her short lifespan.

[GDB]

Still it should be interesting to see Luvia and Rin act around Illya's Shirou now that they've had a chance to see what he's truly capable of as a Mage.

This. Kuro and Illya too. It's the main reason I was hoping we'd get what we got this chapter (everyone seeing Shirou being Archer, basically). Glad they didn't skirt around the issue and make them just see that "something" happened, but not sure what or by who.

[Xero8420]

Damn, did I just got a coincidence of this conversation while I was watching UBW? O.o

[Shadow5YA]

I think by the end of this we'll have the two worlds merged somehow to get the happy ending Ilya is fighting for.

That way, we'll also have Shirou legitimately being both Ilya and Miyu's older brother.

[tuckersister]

If Illya does have Avalon and uses it, how big of a difference in power are we talking about? I also wondering if it will still work with the Saber card.

[jeroz]

Apparently this is the bonus material for this chapter:

http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgpl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgp.jpg)

Speedsketch video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23911788

[Xero8420]

Apparently this is the bonus material for this chapter:

http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgpl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgp.jpg)

Speedsketch video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23911788

Incest route good ending GET! :heh:

[jeroz]

doesn't matter, if it's Alt Shirou, they are not related.

[blitz1/2]

doesn't matter, if it's Alt Shirou, they are not related.

Pseudo wincest, well if we include Miyu and Kuro, then that means imouto harem. Damn u Shirou! I envy u.

[GDB]

Technically it wouldn't even be incest if it were the regular Shirou. There's no blood between them. Hell, there isn't even a name between them. All he'd have to do to make it legal is have himself removed from the family register, since that'd be the only thing tying them together as "family" otherwise.

[Xero8420]

doesn't matter, if it's Alt Shirou, they are not related.

I demand Miyu to see Illya's Shirou the same as Alt Shirou. So as Chloe and the red and blue devils! >:{

[Kanon]

Apparently this is the bonus material for this chapter:

http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgpl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgp.jpg)

Speedsketch video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23911788

Silly Hiroyama, lolis can't get married!

[Death Usagi]

So, who was listening to EMIYA while reading this month's chapter?

[Shadow5YA]

Technically it wouldn't even be incest if it were the regular Shirou. There's no blood between them. Hell, there isn't even a name between them. All he'd have to do to make it legal is have himself removed from the family register, since that'd be the only thing tying them together as "family" otherwise.

No, but he would be a lolicon :heh:

[Seib9]

Breaking the rules for a cool result, too much shonen for my taste

[blitz1/2]

Silly Hiroyama, lolis can't get married!

U prejudiced against lolis? :frustrated: :D

[Tenjouin]

Apparently this is the bonus material for this chapter:

http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgpl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/hLWTmgp.jpg)

Speedsketch video: http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm23911788

Actually from what I have seen that is not a bonus for this chapter. It was a poster given out during the time the second season of the anime started when you buy prisma illya related things in japan.

update - Upon looking into it I discovered that it is being given out from the website "gamers-onlineshop.jp" for buying 2 prisma illya books (that is if I am interpreting the machine translation correctly). It seems they are still giving it out until the 31st. Perhaps I will buy some books and add this poster to my collection hehe...

[jeroz]

Breaking the rules for a cool result, too much shonen for my taste

Which rules?

Remember this is a world where you can trace Excalibur as well

[Bogart]

Which rules?

Remember this is a world where you can trace Excalibur as well

In a certain pocket dimension.

[Rising Dragon]

In a certain pocket dimension.

It has less to do with the location being a factor and more to do with the manga scene being created well before Nasu retconned Excalibur being untraceable.

[Bogart]

It has less to do with the location being a factor and more to do with the manga scene being created well before Nasu retconned Excalibur being untraceable.

Come again? Was it traced at some point and then Nasu said it couldn't be?

[Shadow5YA]

Come again? Was it traced at some point and then Nasu said it couldn't be?

Fate/Extra CCC. It's one of Archer's skills.

Of course, the conditions were different since it was the Moon Cell so Nasu let it pass.

[Rising Dragon]

Come again? Was it traced at some point and then Nasu said it couldn't be?

Basically:

And yes, the "divine objects can't be traced" is the retcon I'm talking about. From what's been explained to me, there was never any rule like that when the game first came out, and Shirou's inability to trace Ea stems directly from the alien materials used rather than the divine origins. Excalibur is a weapon of the Fae realm, but Shirou's brain doesn't try to kill itself figuring out what it's made out of whenever he looks at it, unlike Ea.

In the original (not sure about Realta Nua), Excalibur was traceable. Archer said he could do it, and it was implied that's what Shirou used to destroy the Greater Grail. It wasn't outright shown, but there was no reason to believe it couldn't be done.

Then in one of the CMs, Nasu changed it and said that Excalibur was a divine object and couldn't be traced. So it was a retcon, because it basically changed things so that Archer was bluffing, and Shirou traced something that wasn't Excalibur. It doesn't break the game, as Rising Dragon said, but it's still 100% a retcon.



Fate/Extra CCC. It's one of Archer's skills.

Of course, the conditions were different since it was the Moon Cell so Nasu let it pass.

Actually, while yes, Archer in Fate/Extra CCC can trace the Excalibur Image, we're not talking about that. The retcon in question happened well before Fate/Extra CCC.

Nasu DID give a pass for what CCC did with the Excalibur Image with some babble on how the Far Side world operates, but officially, Excalibur Image came about because the developers had already come up with the animation and such when Nasu wasn't looking:



Infinite Creation of Swords [Noble Phantasm]
Archer's noble phantasm. A barren wasteland lined with a thousand blades. A great ritual deployed using eight lines of projection. A type of old world magecraft, called a reality marble, which manifests the internal world of the caster and writes it over the world for a small amount of time. All of the weapons Archer can project are there and in this space he doesn't have to project them from scratch, instead he can immediately pull out the weapons sticking out of the ground.
In EXTRA, the conditions for where wrought iron is possible are boosted so projection of holy-sword class weaponry is possible, though their performance is inferior.
Okay truth is, I was surprised to find that the staff in charge of the 3D had made animation for Excalibur being projected while I was looking the other way.
Well it is new animation after all and there's no reason to reject it. So long as it's a degraded version, I guess it's okay.

[Bogart]

Would you guys say that Nasu has for the most part has managed to establish and work within the rules of his setting?

[tuckersister]

We will see Archer's true potential in the next chapter. Also, I think Illya's 3rei form is something beyond the enemies' understanding. Would be cool if it looks similar to her Dress of Heaven.

[Singally]

http://i.imgur.com/kdML2J1.jpg

Shirou and Miyu are the only two Fate characters with that extra circle around their pupil (sometimes it's a full circle, sometimes it's like in the pic above). Not to mention their eyes are the exact same colors.

I'm 90% sure they're blood related. It seems like a nice way to make Miyu relevant to the overall Fate verse too.

It's pretty easy to miss in the manga, but it's definitely there. Seems to stay on the sides of their pupils though.

[Ragna92]

So, who was listening to EMIYA while reading this month's chapter?

I did xD

The second I saw Shirou make his entrance I knew it was the perfect moment to play "EMIYA".

[Seib9]

I hope Shirou will die against Julian without completely defeat him, it should be Ilya and Miyu's job, and then tears and angst and joyful things.

[Bogart]

I hope Shirou will die against Julian without completely defeat him, it should be Ilya and Miyu's job, and then tears and angst and joyful things.

You think a magical girl is going to fail to keep her promise to save everyone?

[Seib9]

That's why is only a hope, I'm not really expecting a fail from the MC, and this comes from Fate/Stay Night (heh), everything will work just fine and Ilya will get the boy.

[Bogart]

That's why is only a hope, I'm not really expecting a fail from the MC, and this comes from Fate/Stay Night (heh), everything will work just fine and Ilya will get the boy.

The age gap is such that it might take another decade for her to get her mitts into Shirou and Illya has more than a little competition for him, competition that aren't the least bit afraid of admitting that they're into him.

[Seib9]

As if Shirou cares about the others, he belongs to Ilya even if he doesn't know it ;) and she is too awesome to get bother about mundane things like the age gap (?)

[Xero8420]

I hope Shirou will die against Julian without completely defeat him, it should be Ilya and Miyu's job, and then tears and angst and joyful things.

Why you want Shirou to die that bad?

[Seib9]

I never thoungt he is necessary here, in this story. Miyu being the Grail Vessel was shocking and sad enough, it didn't need more.

[Gx Hero]

Anyone notice Julian keeps saying his legend. Seems to me he doesn't give a rats hair about the people, heck he may not truly want to save the people. I suspect that Illya and Miyu are going to do some miracle to fix the world.

Again can't wait till we hear what Julian Really wants from the grail and his legend. Still hasn't explained why he had to hide as his father all that time.

[Death Usagi]

I am going to guess that it will be the classic antagonist duo after Julian is defeated.

Julian is defeated, then Gilgamesh takes his card back. Goes into his true adult form from Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero, and Kirei comes in, where they take the Grail (Miyu) for themselves, but it is also possible Illya and Kuro will be involved as well since they are Grail themselves (In Illya's case not really due to separating with Kuro)

[Shadow5YA]

Julian isn't going down, especially not when we still have no idea how Tanaka is involved with all of this.

[Death Usagi]

In the end I am sure he will go down, but we know Gilgamesh and Kirei will come out as villains afterwards :x

[Xero8420]

In the end I am sure he will go down, but we know Gilgamesh and Kirei will come out as villains afterwards :x

Partners-in-crime as always, I see.

PS: Speaking of Kirei, I feel like I wanna try his Mapo tofu/Szechuan ramen. Let's see if it's as spicy as the spicy miso ramen I ate last month. :heh:

[DmonHiro]

I don't think this version of Gil will turn against Ilya. So far, his objective is to get his card and stuff back. While I do think Kirei knows much more then he lets on, I don't think he's a bad guy in this world.

[Gx Hero]

you know I actually just thought about something. Illya who has secrete feelings for her brother may have reconsider.

Kuro: created from part of Illya that was meant to be the holy grail + Archer class servant card ( AKA future Shiro Emiya champion of justice.)

anyway it is something to consider that the Servant card Kuro was born from was future shiro emyia

[rladls2121]

I wonder, does that mean Miyu and Shiro are blood related siblings?

[Xero8420]

I wonder, does that mean Miyu and Shiro are blood related siblings?

It almost sounds like he has an illegitimate biological imouto that Papa Kerry never told him (nor did he told to his wife Iri), because of the very same eyes they have, Emiya Miyu. (ZOMG, Kerry is a big fat liar!) :heh:

In the parallel universe, we yet to know later.

[Death Usagi]

I don't think this version of Gil will turn against Ilya. So far, his objective is to get his card and stuff back. While I do think Kirei knows much more then he lets on, I don't think he's a bad guy in this world.

He still wants the Grail, so after getting his card and the rest of Gate of Babylon back, which will turn him back into his full power (presumably his adult form), I am sure he will take action for himself. For one thing, right now is a temporary alliance pretty much.

[Bogart]

It almost sounds like he has an illegitimate biological imouto that Papa Kerry never told him (nor did he told to his wife Iri), because of the very same eyes they have, Emiya Miyu. (ZOMG, Kerry is a big fat liar!) :heh:

In the parallel universe, we yet to know later.

The only one Kerry is biologically related to is Illya.

[GDB]

It almost sounds like he has an illegitimate biological imouto that Papa Kerry never told him (nor did he told to his wife Iri), because of the very same eyes they have, Emiya Miyu. (ZOMG, Kerry is a big fat liar!) :heh:

In the parallel universe, we yet to know later.

More like in every known universe outside of Miyu's, she dies in the fire. Assuming they are blood siblings.

[JaDe In NighT]

So can someone send me link for the chapters cause i am too lazy to search for it :D

[Gx Hero]

Maybe, but the other Gil that Illya fought in zwei was corrupted like in chapter 23 the servants created. Gil will do as he wishes Grail or no grail. Heck he may simply vanish if the world is to boring for his likes.

Should he meet Illya's mom he may flee in terror of being cuddled like the cute little kid he is.

[Kanon]

More like in every known universe outside of Miyu's, she dies in the fire. Assuming they are blood siblings.

It's possible she doesn't even exist in the other universes in the first place. Her existence, a natural grail, might be a miracle that happened only in one universe.

[Gx Hero]

A natural Grail vessel, I doubt it. For all we know they simply have not gotten to her origin story, I mean look at Sakura, and Illya in any season and their role as vessels. The whole grail war that Julian started seems odd and their is more to it since he didn't need to create servants if Miyu was a natural grail. No I suspect the black mass that is creating the servants may have something to do with all this, and don't forget their is one character not their whose origin may also be linked with the mass, the girl who will only wear gym shorts.

The battle is far from over and I bet 5-7 chapters will go by before we even get to the epic smack down.

[ReddyRedWolf]

The only one Kerry is biologically related to is Illya.

I do wonder about that. From hints besides being the grail and their birthdays it seems like Miyu is a parallel universe version of Illya.

[Xero8420]

More like in every known universe outside of Miyu's, she dies in the fire. Assuming they are blood siblings.

Ok, I think I got it. She's possibly Shirou's biological sibling who possibly died in the fire in F/Z, F/SN and kaleid liner (Illya's world) universe both, while she and Shirou's are non-Emiya. Kanon was right, and I was mistaken, cause I didn't realize that they were somehow blood-related siblings and were most likely not from Emiya since Shirou was adopted by Kerry. I guess I can assume that Miyu is Shirou's long lost imouto in Illya's world.

In here, however, assuming that the F/Z 4th Holy Grail War was averted in the parallel universe as well. It would mean that Miyu lives in that world with Shirou, and both were later adopted into the Emiya.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Or Miyuverse is the only universe where Miyu exist. Remember what Caren said about her. She is a happenstance.

A fluke that is a natural Holy Grail as opposed to have been made one.

[tuckersister]

Did chapter 24 come out yet?

Also, I think Illya's Drei form will be a form of true magic. Illya's wish granting magic is one of a kind. Anything can happen.

[Ernietheracefan]

Julian is defeated, then Gilgamesh takes his card back. Goes into his true adult form from Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero, and Kirei comes in, where they take the Grail (Miyu) for themselves, but it is also possible Illya and Kuro will be involved as well since they are Grail themselves (In Illya's case not really due to separating with Kuro)

Or maybe Gil will take Miyu's heart in the same fashion as UBW..?
Then we'll see Miyuverse & Ilyaverse being merged and Kerry vs Kirei part 2..:D

[Death Usagi]

I actually do wonder if we will get to see Kiritsugu in action in this series but I highly doubt it lol

[Bogart]

I actually do wonder if we will get to see Kiritsugu in action in this series but I highly doubt it lol

At the very least they could have him boldly declare to Iris that she was the one that raised them before S-A-F-E-T-Y dancing away. Of course, it'd be nice to actually see him being a father outside of a couple scenes.

[ukulelembo]

Did chapter 24 come out yet?
http://i.imgur.com/hERv6eB.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/S7lCqhh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wmeUrxZ.jpg

[The Green One]

Kuro and Shirou raep faces as they prepare to use ultimate blade works and murder mode Tanaka on the move? Delicious....

[GDB]

Shirou, you best protect Kuro. If he gets a hand on her, she's dead.

[Seib9]

Is the floor... melted? Holy s...

Shirou, you best protect Kuro. If he gets a hand on her, she's dead.

Let's get Kuro protecting him.

[Bogart]

Looks more like a tag team than anything.

[Gx Hero]

looks like in chapter 24 the mysterious berserk girl, forgot her name is going to starting making an appearance.

[Kanon]

http://i.imgur.com/hERv6eB.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/S7lCqhh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wmeUrxZ.jpg

This is the stuff of dreams. The chapter can't come out soon enough.

[Wandering Soul]

http://i.imgur.com/hERv6eB.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/S7lCqhh.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/wmeUrxZ.jpg
Shirou and Kuro have those murder faces on and destroy Ainsworth mode Tanaka is joining the fray. So glad I just caught up.

[Gx Hero]

The blood of Ainsworth will be spilled.... well until the next startling revelation occurs. Still Julian is about to get schooled archer style.

[Bogart]

Do you think Kuro will learn UBW from this?

Also, since Chloe is the name Kuro decided for herself, do you think it'd be appropriate to call her by that name? Kuro is just kind of insulting in a way, even if she doesn't necessarily mind it.

[The Green One]

All the other charas, including Illya, call her that. Chloe is her given name, but she probably lets her "friends" call her Kuro.

[kenshinstyle]

Chapter 24

http://imgur.com/a/wDLlu
http://bato.to/read/_/274558/

Thanks and credit to Paitouch from beast lair.

[GDB]

Really like that cover with Kuro in a bathing suit.

From Shirou's conversation with Angelica makes it sound like they had a battle like Shirou did against the real Gil in UBW when they came to take Miyu, but without Rin's mana backing him he couldn't sustain the reality marble and lost.

Also, from Kuro's little talk with Shirou, it seems she doesn't know who Archer really is (unlike when Illya installed Caster and learned her whole history), but has a strong inkling. Hard to tell if Shirou's inner monologue was him realizing who Kuro had installed, or if he was thinking that Kuro is Miyu's friend.

And that last page! More talk about Miyu being lewd, and then the awesome combo! Double Archer Action!

[Wandering Soul]

Apparently Shirou and Angelica had a similar battle but their positions were reversed. It seems like Shirou didn't have enough mana to keep up the fight and ended up losing.

Shirou also is happy that Miyu has friends but he might need to lecture her about her lewd outfit.
Can't wait to see the Shirou and Kuro duo.

[Bogart]

Apparently Shirou and Angelica had a similar battle but their positions were reversed. It seems like Shirou didn't have enough mana to keep up the fight and ended up losing.

He successfully allowed Miyu to escape. That's not losing.

[kenshinstyle]

They are really teasing ubw so much. Just when I thought we could finally see ubw in action, shirou's body turned out to be too weakened to invoke it.

[Bogart]

One thing is for certain; Kuro is going to have alot of fun getting Shirou to teach her UBW...

[Shadow5YA]

But. Um. What's with that lewd outfit of hers? I think big brother here may need to lecture her...

:heh:

He successfully allowed Miyu to escape. That's not losing.

And they took her back. I would call that a stalemate.