Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Come wa Machigatteiru.

[csuree]

I would say she is officially in the harem since the end of volume 8

[megaroad1]

This is awesome
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CC8P1lKVIAEzXWM.jpg



Let's just hope we'll see more Sakisaki in the future.
I also wonder why Hikki always act like a dense MC with Kawasomething. He's always ignoring Yui's advances but says "I love ya" to Saki like nothing and later don't understand why she's not able to keep eye contact. Is it just because he think of her as a fellow loner or is he just indifferent towards her?

I'd love some more Sakikaki goodness. I have to admit though, Hachiman blurting out that "Love ya" running up those stairs is the most out of character thing he's done in the novels.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

The Hestia hype is out of control! Even Oregairu got affected
http://i.imgur.com/FOb7ek4.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/77m4YRx.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/0TZDHji.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QCA94qh.png
http://i.imgur.com/csYeQiL.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/HOrWDh5.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/oOkY00y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1vMPnFQ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Ohb2ZHa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WdGxKbX.png

Someone drew a scene from vol 10.5 chapter 2
http://i.imgur.com/nlRvDPj.jpg
And this. I had to go back to vol 10 to remember this.
http://i.imgur.com/zIL73HE.png
...or random products like I Lo Has for Irohasu. I could be wrong, though.
http://i.imgur.com/BrYcN0n.jpg

Damn, 4chan has really a lot of good images, I couldn't resist sharing it with you all. It was kind of hard to ignore all this Yukino hate, though... :(
If someone knows the source of those pics (except those from Kazuki) pls tell me :)

[theshade1]

Lol does anyone else think Iroha sort of 'took' Saki's role. I mean they are very different characters, but in terms of face time, it seemed like Saki'd get a lot more appearances. I guess Iroha's popularity led to this.

[csuree]

The Hestia hype is out of control! Even Oregairu got affected
http://i.imgur.com/FOb7ek4.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/77m4YRx.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/0TZDHji.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QCA94qh.png
http://i.imgur.com/csYeQiL.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/HOrWDh5.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/oOkY00y.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1vMPnFQ.jpghttp://i.imgur.com/Ohb2ZHa.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WdGxKbX.png

Someone drew a scene from vol 10.5 chapter 2
http://i.imgur.com/nlRvDPj.jpg
And this. Is this legit?
http://i.imgur.com/zIL73HE.png

http://i.imgur.com/BrYcN0n.jpg

Damn, 4chan has really a lot of good images, I couldn't resist sharing it with you all. It was kind of hard to ignore all this Yukino hate, though... :(
If someone knows the source of those pics (except those from Kazuki) pls tell me :)

This is so... funny.... "His eyes were more rotten""This isn't my Hikki!!!" The Saki pics are actually cute. SHE NEEDS MORE SCREENTIME and plot (not that kind of plot you perv)

[clarkken228]

Why no love for Yukino-chan? Yukino shippers are starving here -_-

[theshade1]

Why no love for Yukino-chan? Yukino shippers are starving here -_-

LOL. Probably because that's most likely to be the focus of the main story and so the manga extras and side-stories are for fans of the other characters.

[lijenstina]

http://i.imgur.com/QCA94qh.png



Nope. Yui would take the good eyed Hikki. That's the reason why she complimented him how he looked good with glasses. Because the good eyed Hikki is the real Hikki that she sees. Similar to telling Yukino how she is cute.

[charasu]

http://i.imgur.com/WdGxKbX.png


Damn, 4chan has really a lot of good images, I couldn't resist sharing it with you all. It was kind of hard to ignore all this Yukino hate, though... :(
If someone knows the source of those pics (except those from Kazuki) pls tell me :)

after i see this fanfic 4koma about rumi few days ago in/a/, i became really curious about this fanfic continuation, and began sarching this image via image search, but no result:upset:..... sigh....:sad:

[YumeNoMonogatari]

after i see this fanfic 4koma about rumi few days ago in/a/, i became really curious about this fanfic continuation, and began sarching this image via image search, but no result:upset:..... sigh....:sad:

The was drawn by Kazuki Rechi. He's the one drawing Oregairu - Monologue, and sadly I don't think there's a continuation...

[csuree]

Why no love for Yukino-chan? Yukino shippers are starving here -_-


<evil smile> Ice fields cannot be loved, they give little to no food , they are a barren flat(see what i did there?) wasteland killing everything that enters, Just surviving for a few minutes takes an enormous effort. <evil smile>

Not to offend, but since the last volumes, will revolve 150% around Yukino....no need for any more shipping than that

[IndexOfIdeas]

where is the continuation of rumi story i demand a new chapter

and pls add a iroha too!!!

pls!!!

[SomeChineseGuy]

Long-awaited crossover

http://i4.pixiv.net/img-original/img/2015/04/21/21/46/28/49959987_p0.png


Also: d'awwww.

[lijenstina]

Long-awaited crossover

http://i4.pixiv.net/img-original/img/2015/04/21/21/46/28/49959987_p0.png


Also: d'awwww.

403 forbidden

Do you have to have a pixiv account to see those?

[SomeChineseGuy]

403 forbidden

Do you have to have a pixiv account to see those?

Crap. Forgot about that entirely. Really really sorry. Here (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=49959987)

[csuree]

ohh they used the yamada-kun intro....but if we talk about crossover.. on this... Hikki+ Shiraishi....interesting couple..

[lijenstina]

Crap. Forgot about that entirely. Really really sorry. Here (http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=49959987)

Thanks. :)

[YumeNoMonogatari]

All those fanarts makes me want to draw something too. But can't draw !! :sad:

[GodEmperorPenguin]

All those fanarts makes me want to draw something too. But can't draw !! :sad:

Y-you can try w-writing.

;_; I want to read more Yahari fanfics.

[vienx]

agree more yahari fanfic,,
btw i just recently finished vol 10
at hte end hayama asked hikigaya if he have noticed which hikigaya asked back notice what
can someone tell me what was hayama implying

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Y-you can try w-writing.

;_; I want to read more Yahari fanfics.

I could always try to write an Oregairu fanfic but my english is not that good yet. I can hold a conversation with you all but writing a whole fanfic might end up in something embarrasing.

[Lan91]

Y-you can try w-writing.

;_; I want to read more Yahari fanfics.

I want to read more of yours! The wait is killing me

[csuree]

agree more yahari fanfic,,
btw i just recently finished vol 10
at hte end hayama asked hikigaya if he have noticed which hikigaya asked back notice what
can someone tell me what was hayama implying

We are also guessing about it honestly; it probably has to do something with the Yukinoshita sisters.

[vienx]

my hopeful wish is yukinon impossible crush to hachiman
i wonder why when haruno mention hachi was with her yukinon dash instantly

[Shadow5YA]

Not sure what you're trying to get at here since I didn't say anything otherwise. Yui and Hachiman were stuck on the notion of the Service Club. Yukino was hoping they'd realize that their relationship wasn't limited by a mere title; this is where the something genuine part comes into play. They basically had tunnel vision this entire novel and you couldn't really expect them to think rationally given their fallout.

As an aside, I think Yukino was a much, much more earlier adopter of wanting something genuine. My impression she had given up on the idea after volume 8, only to have her motivation revitalized after accepting Hachiman's request.

I don't think Yukino thought that far into it. My impression was that she just wanted to stop Hachiman at all costs, and given how she was panicking when she was trying to explain why she didn't like his ways, her decision was as rash as Yui's was to join the race.

I think Yukino just thought the position was a perfect opportunity because it was something that neither Haruno did nor Hachiman would do. If she could change her surroundings, then perhaps she could have done something about the Service Club, which had been working under Hachiman's methods for some time now.

As for someone who could suggest the idea of assimilating the Service Club into the Student Council, there really weren't that many people who could do that. Shizuka probably adopts a hands-off policy regarding the Service Club; Meguri already came in with Iroha's request and also witnessed the tension in the Service Club; Komachi was upset with Hachiman at the beginning of volume 8; Zaimokuza, Totsuka, Saki, Hayama, and company weren't very involved to really say anything, or aware of the situation; and the three in the Service Club weren't in the right mind to think rationally as I mentioned above.

I mean, if you look at things in retrospect, it's easy to think of how the scenario could play in a different way, but that's life. There's no "ifs" in life, only "thens." Or something like that.

I think in high school it's more that the Student Council has this stigma of being a burden of responsibilities that no one wants to get stuck with. If it weren't for that negative stigma, I think a lot more people would have realized that what the Service Club does isn't that far off from that the Student Council can do. Meguri did mention her hopes that the three could have joined the student council together, but she was too passive tell them any sooner.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

http://i.imgur.com/YW3KRhH.png

[csuree]

I just read through the last chapters of vol. 10 and this question popped up in my mind:

"Are we sure Yukinon needs to be saved? isn't it the other way around" - What I mean about that is that all we know about Yukino's past are from Haruno and Hayama. Are we sure that Yukino needs saving? Not Hayama and Haruno. As far as I can tell they are the bigger victims of their family, not Yukino (since she moved from home).

http://i.imgur.com/YW3KRhH.png


Saki is not that big of a brocon....she'd be to embarrased to do that....maybe with Hikki she'd do it

[Excorsism]

I don't think Yukino thought that far into it. My impression was that she just wanted to stop Hachiman at all costs, and given how she was panicking when she was trying to explain why she didn't like his ways, her decision was as rash as Yui's was to join the race.

I think Yukino just thought the position was a perfect opportunity because it was something that neither Haruno did nor Hachiman would do. If she could change her surroundings, then perhaps she could have done something about the Service Club, which had been working under Hachiman's methods for some time now.

It might've been rash, but that was from her initial outburst. Afterwards, I'm sure she put a lot of thought into it before making her decision. Otherwise, the line where she says she thought he could understand what she was trying to do wouldn't make very much sense if her decision to join the race was a spontaneous one.

The line in Japanese in chapter 8: わかるものだとばかり、思っていたのね (My TL: "I thought for sure you could understand [what I wanted to do]...")

She was clearly expecting him to see through her, but he failed to. Hence, the completely shattered idealization of him in volume 9.

I think in high school it's more that the Student Council has this stigma of being a burden of responsibilities that no one wants to get stuck with. If it weren't for that negative stigma, I think a lot more people would have realized that what the Service Club does isn't that far off from that the Student Council can do. Meguri did mention her hopes that the three could have joined the student council together, but she was too passive tell them any sooner.

If you consider what the school's like based on the Cultural Festival alone, I'd say it has more to do with the majority of people not giving a rat's ass about the election.

[lijenstina]

btw i just recently finished vol 10
at the end hayama asked hikigaya if he have noticed which hikigaya asked back notice what
can someone tell me what was hayama implying

So what are the things that Watari through Hayato's question hinted at?

1) Yukino's clearly unsolved issue with her Mom and Haruno

2) The gaps in knowledge are a serious obstacle for truly understanding others not only thoughts, but emotions too.

3) Related to the previous point - tacit understanding between people who have history together (examples Hayato/Yukino, Hachiman/Komachi).

4) Lack of sincerity because lies are still being told (in the 9th Volume there is an interesting case, at first glance trivial, however it isn't)

5) Testing someone's grasp on the underlying motives

6) Expression of self doubt and realization that (connected to the previous point) the problem is not yet solved

7) Something genuine is a continuous struggle where someone could only get closer, but never fully reach it.

8) Even if an effort is made sometimes it's not enough

9) Enclosed happiness - the mutual awereness inside of a group of friends it's not enough to prevent the consequences of outsiders' misconceptions on their relations

To sumarize those points - It's still "genuine in development", a work in progress. A few steps closer to the something genuine were made, but it's nowhere there yet. Sincerity, the truth, mutual understanding, deep bonds that withstand temptations. Those define relations with others for Yukino and Hachiman. But, also are emotionally driven and idealistic. Could they be ever fully achieved in reality?

I could rant on these if you want examples and more in depth explanations.:)

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Since there's still time before episode 4 I'll just post some fanart again. Hope you don't mind ;)

I really need to know who's drawing those Iroha x Hikki stuff...
http://i.imgur.com/iaRNwGx.png

http://i.imgur.com/lEe2Vc6.jpg

[GodEmperorPenguin]

I want to read more of yours! The wait is killing me

I'm flattered. You should write your own fics, so you don't have to wait.

If I may ask, what do you like about the fic? Or don't like. ;_; I don't have a good idea of what I am doing right or wrong when I write.

[Lan91]

I'm flattered. You should write your own fics, so you don't have to wait.

If I may ask, what do you like about the fic? Or don't like. ;_; I don't have a good idea of what I am doing right or wrong when I write.

It's well written, you've got 8man character perfectly. The bad thing is the wait haha. My writing sucks, I'm a reader not a writer :(

[vienx]

So what are the things that Watari through Hayato's question hinted at?

1) Yukino's clearly unsolved issue with her Mom and Haruno

2) The gaps in knowledge are a serious obstacle for truly understanding others not only thoughts, but emotions too.

3) Related to the previous point - tacit understanding between people who have history together (examples Hayato/Yukino, Hachiman/Komachi).

4) Lack of sincerity because lies are still being told (in the 9th Volume there is an interesting case, at first glance trivial, however it isn't)

5) Testing someone's grasp on the underlying motives

6) Expression of self doubt and realization that (connected to the previous point) the problem is not yet solved

7) Something genuine is a continuous struggle where someone could only get closer, but never fully reach it.

8) Even if an effort is made sometimes it's not enough

9) Enclosed happiness - the mutual awereness inside of a group of friends it's not enough to prevent the consequences of outsiders' misconceptions on their relations

To sumarize those points - It's still "genuine in development", a work in progress. A few steps closer to the something genuine were made, but it's nowhere there yet. Sincerity, the truth, mutual understanding, deep bonds that withstand temptations. Those define relations with others for Yukino and Hachiman. But, also are emotionally driven and idealistic. Could they be ever fully achieved in reality?

I could rant on these if you want examples and more in depth explanations.:)

thanks but you dont have to,, i just wishing someone to bring me more hope,, thanks for your detailed explanation,, i was hoping that something yukinoshita's attitude change toward hachiman

It's well written, you've got 8man character perfectly. The bad thing is the wait haha. My writing sucks, I'm a reader not a writer :(

me too an avid reader for fanfic,, just recently brows the fanfc for 8man,, i prefer the future setting like the one titled the daily live of hikigaya,, there is one rated M but after reading by skipping it left bitter taste,, i just dont like too much angst and yukino marry someone else

[Heat066]

I'm flattered. You should write your own fics, so you don't have to wait.

If I may ask, what do you like about the fic? Or don't like. ;_; I don't have a good idea of what I am doing right or wrong when I write.

Now that I see, I started reading your fanfic today.

So far, it looks gold to me, the characterization of 8man is spot on.

[GodEmperorPenguin]

I appreciate the feedback, even though I don't really know what I'm doing when I'm writing.

;_; I'm a proponent of the Yukinoshita-Hayama engagement theory myself, tho.

[vienx]

although i dont want it,, but there is this lingering feeling that they are enganged
if they are then there will be big drama

[eceso]

I'm flattered. You should write your own fics, so you don't have to wait.

If I may ask, what do you like about the fic? Or don't like. ;_; I don't have a good idea of what I am doing right or wrong when I write.
Oh are you the author of the love letter fanfic? It's INCREDIBLE

Can't wait till the next chapter kudos to you excellent writing

[Lan91]

Yeah I think they're engaged too. I don't like it!

[csuree]

I understand your suspicions.... Hayama said that he had no decision where he goes; He went for humanities, meaning he will become a lawyer.

Succeeding the law company means they will have future with the Yukinoshita family. It might be that their families are planning to make a union between them and then that means that one of the sisters will have to marry Hayama.

Since Haruno is 3 years older, she might be out of the question.

But I said it yesterday, and what if the one who need to ask the service club for help is not Yukino, but Haruno and Hayama, There were a few hints about it. And you know how both of them are manipulating Hachiman to do the unexpected. And we know 8man is not stupid, sooner or later he will figure it out on his own.

[vienx]

I'm flattered. You should write your own fics, so you don't have to wait.

If I may ask, what do you like about the fic? Or don't like. ;_; I don't have a good idea of what I am doing right or wrong when I write.

i read your fic and it was damn good,, cant wait for the next,, drama,,
if hachiman keep consistent in his attitude well this is where they are part ways

[Excorsism]

Preview (http://www.animate.tv/news/details.php?id=1429749023) for episode 5.

Yukino looks particularly great in this shot.

http://img.animate.tv/news/visual/2015/1429749023_1_25_137f390cb3717f08cfe78800226097cb.j pg

Really looking forward to how they do Yukino's expression on the rollercoaster now.

[Armando99]

although i dont want it,, but there is this lingering feeling that they are enganged
if they are then there will be big drama

And that is when the Ikki dude comes to save the day.

Yuki, if I remember, had asked Ikki if he could help her one day.

I always thought that it would lead to the "engagement" with Hayama that she does not want anything to do with.

[csuree]

Ohh pink........Hachiman you perv...
http://img.animate.tv/news/visual/2015/1429749023_1_16_3907db14d0f7641894c029a5b8c9e2bc.j pg

[lijenstina]

And that is when the Ikki dude comes to save the day.

Yuki, if I remember, had asked Ikki if he could help her one day.

I always thought that it would lead to the "engagement" with Hayama that she does not want anything to do with.

That Yukino's line on amusement ride in Vol. 9 is the continuation of the scene in Vol. 6 at her place. She finally gave the answer that she couldn't then. I don't know how it leads to engagement.

[vienx]

engagement was brought because i think it is common plot if there such high spec girl with prestigious family line..
maybe they werent engage yet.. maybe they will in future plot..
that is one of my expectation/worries

btw in the end of vol 10.. hachiman say the thing that yukino answer his question about her choice wasnt genuie.. why is that ?

[HereticMagus]

engagement was brought because i think it is common plot if there such high spec girl with prestigious family line..
maybe they werent engage yet.. maybe they will in future plot..
that is one of my expectation/worries
Personally, I see the engagement route as too predictable for Watari. If we are to bet on a happy ending and support this assertion as well, then it would make for an ensemble of a white knight and damsel in distress. If I'm being honest, that is the path I least like and least expect OreGairu to take.

I guess I'm expecting something along the lines of Yukino's family being well intentioned with all the problems rooting from her own paranoia and misconceptions about what constitutes a genuine relationship.

Think about this; Yukinoshita family seeing Yukino as unnecessary (in her view) can be their way of sparing their youngest daughter all the responsibilities, pretences and expectations that is par for the course in high prestige upper echelon social circles. It's quite possible that Haruno (hence possible animosity towards ice queen and even the memorandums) herself is the victim here and Hayama in a position similar to Haruno, but pities Yukino for her misguided beliefs.

Her mother's imposing and controlling personality itself can be veneer to distance Yukino from the family affairs, since her getting insight into the actual intentions would be challenging her pride and probably making naught of all their efforts to keep at least Yukino out of the grasp of suffocating obligations.

It's a little far fetched theory, but it is one that makes sense of a lot of things in retrospect (to me) simultaneously providing a lot of depth to Yukino (or lack thereof, how is that for a plot twist?!), Haruno and even Hayama compared to something as trivial as an engagement since that directly shifts blame to the adult society as a whole and Yukino's family in particular.

Watari has so far kept things like morality and blame at a fine shade of grey. So something like an engagement that polarizes Yukino's family into the black and Hachiman/co to white is going to be an expectedly unexpected (if that even makes sense:heh::heh:) line of plot progression for the kind of story OreGairu has been hitherto.

btw in the end of vol 10.. hachiman say the thing that yukino answer his question about her choice wasnt genuie.. why is that ?Where does he suggest this? I can't believe I missed something so important?!

[IndexOfIdeas]

In the nurse office when 8man ask yukinoshita about her choice

[lijenstina]

I see two things.

1) Hachiman's resolution is not about the question itself (that is not important) but making a first step and establishing the act of asking - where him and Yukino finally start sincerely talking with each other.

2) The usual Hikki's thoughts how everything is temporary, but if that first step was made and left a mark then everything is fine.

Where is it exactly? If you think about the self-satisfaction line that's about the first point.
Describing Yukino "smile as though she was a little girl on the day before an outing" tells the exact opposite of being dishonest.

[Excorsism]

Wow, Feel is really doing some work. Every episode's been pretty consistent with the quality.

Looks like volume 8 is ending next episode. They even adapted the "Y" scene during the summer camp so they might actually do volume 10 after all.

[csuree]

Well I had a strong feeling they would do volume 10 also, given the fact when the anime ends, vol 11 will be out on sale. From marketing perspective it is the best tactic.

Ebina with the fujoshi "hm...hm...hm..." when Hayato was bowing to 8man... hilarious

"monster of logic" :)

[Excorsism]

Well I had a strong feeling they would do volume 10 also, given the fact when the anime ends, vol 11 will be out on sale. From marketing perspective it is the best tactic.

Pretty much. Guess I got my work cut out for me come June.

[csuree]

I'm sorry... If I knew Japanese I'd help...I know just 3 languages: hungarian, romanian and english..

[Cinnamon]

Iroha's voice actor does a great job there, her voice really fits when she interrogates Hikki about Orimoto and co.

That cliffhanger when the season ends with Volume 10, I can see it!

[lijenstina]

Iroha. :heh:

http://i.imgur.com/881k6sm.jpg]

[YumeNoMonogatari]

:T_T: And I'll have to wait until tomorrow morning to watch it subbed :T_T:

http://i.imgur.com/881k6sm.jpg]

That smile makes the wait more pleasant, though :D

[csuree]

I'm waiting for the next episode...
Saki moments: “It’s okay. When you’re in that club… it suits you a lot more.”
“Also… you as well.”
"Kawasaki abruptly looked away. If you knew, then don’t say it, gosh. Saying it like that makes my heart skip a beat, you know."

If they put these in.. I will soooo happy :hyper-^v^::hyper-^v^:



Yeah I liked the YUI scene also(so much emotion).....FEEL did a very good job with this adaptation.....Totally respect them...

[charasu]

oh god, that sunset scane of yui n hikki with BGM "Hello Alone" piano ver http://forum.idws.id/images/smilies/onion-72.gif
===============

so next eps is warping up vol 8, hope all material will be coveredhttp://forum.idws.id/images/smilies/onion-98.gif

[Cinnamon]

Yeah I liked the YUI scene also(so much emotion).....FEEL did a very good job with this adaptation.....Totally respect them...

I fully agree with you, they really did a great job on that scene, especially 8man's reactions. The music, the expressions on all characters, the timing.

I have to admit, I was a bit skeptical to Feel before this season while looking at the pre-airing trailers, but they have crushed those worries and more. Really Looking forward to the Yukino scenes coming.

[Armando99]

Guess it's time for me to binge and watch all the episodes so far. I waited long enough, methinks.

I've seen enough good stuff!

[SomeChineseGuy]

Personally, I see the engagement route as too predictable for Watari. If we are to bet on a happy ending and support this assertion as well, then it would make for an ensemble of a white knight and damsel in distress. If I'm being honest, that is the path I least like and least expect OreGairu to take.


The most logical outcome would be for Yukino to get some courage from Hikki and settle with her parents herself.

I guess I'm expecting something along the lines of Yukino's family being well intentioned with all the problems rooting from her own paranoia and misconceptions about what constitutes a genuine relationship.


Think about this; Yukinoshita family seeing Yukino as unnecessary (in her view) can be their way of sparing their youngest daughter all the responsibilities, pretences and expectations that is par for the course in high prestige upper echelon social circles. It's quite possible that Haruno (hence possible animosity towards ice queen and even the memorandums) herself is the victim here and Hayama in a position similar to Haruno, but pities Yukino for her misguided beliefs.


Then why's her mother still opposing her living alone?

Her mother's imposing and controlling personality itself can be veneer to distance Yukino from the family affairs, since her getting insight into the actual intentions would be challenging her pride and probably making naught of all their efforts to keep at least Yukino out of the grasp of suffocating obligations.


So her family is guiding her? That's conspiracy theory already. Not to mention creepy.

I mean, Haruno obviously is doing something along the lines (though I wish she didn't), but she does it alone.

It's a little far fetched theory, but it is one that makes sense of a lot of things in retrospect (to me) simultaneously providing a lot of depth to Yukino (or lack thereof, how is that for a plot twist?!), Haruno and even Hayama compared to something as trivial as an engagement since that directly shifts blame to the adult society as a whole and Yukino's family in particular.


Too late, Yukino has enough depth. Besides, it's not about adults as a whole (we have Sensei at least), but about her family.

Watari has so far kept things like morality and blame at a fine shade of grey. So something like an engagement that polarizes Yukino's family into the black and Hachiman/co to white is going to be an expectedly unexpected (if that even makes sense:heh::heh:) line of plot progression for the kind of story OreGairu has been hitherto.


Well, they'll negotiate something together.

---

The episode made me feel the pain all over again. (those puns just never get old =_=).

Also, when I was reading the scene where Hikki convinced Iroha, I never imagine this (http://i.imgur.com/VrxtvhU.jpg) o.o .

---

Also also:
(probably two years late but still)Yukitoki features lines like "take me to the warm garden where azalea bloom". And there was a place full of azalea flowers... the teacher's lounge, that is. What was the studio implying?

[vienx]

after rereading the end of vol 10 i become more curious about this line

Suddenly, I thought back. A certain individual said that it’s an enclosed happiness. A certain individual asked if I hadn’t noticed it. And from the very start, Yukinoshita Haruno in front of me was someone I had doubted entirely, that whether there was any truth or sincerity to her.

[Excorsism]

Heh, Feel is something else. They did a subtle change in the opening this week. Volume 9, here we come.

[csuree]

what subtle change??..

ohh.. found it... xD

[megaroad1]

I was a bit skeptical about them after the first episodes, but I'm pleased with their work now. And the girls character designs are fabulous. Even Miura is cute.

[eceso]

after rereading the end of vol 10 i become more curious about this line

Suddenly, I thought back. A certain individual said that it’s an enclosed happiness. A certain individual asked if I hadn’t noticed it. And from the very start, Yukinoshita Haruno in front of me was someone I had doubted entirely, that whether there was any truth or sincerity to her.
I know Hiratsuka sensei is the one who originally mentioned the happiness thing

Still not sure though, it could go in any direction still

That Haruno part is def intriguing though in the context after the initial thought

[eceso]

Actually , to continue on that thought

In todays ep(forgot where in the volume) after Yukino leaves the restaurant, that little back and fourth about little sisters probably correlates strongly with that last line, like he probably confirmed something he had suspected for a while

[YumeNoMonogatari]

what subtle change??..

ohh.. found it... xD

I couldn't find it. What was it?

[lijenstina]

I couldn't find it. What was it?

on the 2.35 mark in CommieSubs version. In the OP after the snow scene.

[HereticMagus]

The most logical outcome would be for Yukino to get some courage from Hikki and settle with her parents herself.Which is basically the same thing.



Then why's her mother still opposing her living alone?
*Full Conspiracy Theory Mode* That's also part of pretence :cool:
In truth, she'd rather Yukino stay away from the life in masks, though live alone is upto question. Worry not Yukimom, hikiworm is here :heh:


So her family is guiding her? That's conspiracy theory already. Not to mention creepy.
And marriage arranged to under age teens totally isn't creepy :uhoh:
Hayama-kun's family has been that kind of a family for a long time.Guess whose family is most similar to Hayama's? This reeks of conspiracy ohoy!! :heh:

I mean, Haruno obviously is doing something along the lines (though I wish she didn't), but she does it alone. And thus she is the victim. In saving Yukino, Haruno is the sacrifice. She probably wants her sacrifice to create something more than a bitter and disillusioned maiden


Too late, Yukino has enough depth. Besides, it's not about adults as a whole (we have Sensei at least), but about her family.One can never have too much depth. A depth that annuls the previously established depth in retrospect is much more of a depth than her current depth and the kind of depth that makes everyone go wow without ending ending without depth :eyespin:

SeriouslyThis is not a crack theory
like at all :rolleyes:

Now for some genuine not conspiracy theories, I suppose my previous suggestion came off as too radical to be taken seriously. Let me rephrase a bit. What I am trying to say is, the thing might be that even though they are opposed to Yukino being adverse to family affairs outside, secretly, maybe even without knowing, they might be giving her some leeway so as to lessen the burden of responsibilities on her and happy that at least one of their daughters can lead a {relatively speaking) normal, unencumbered life.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

on the 2.35 mark in CommieSubs version. In the OP after the snow scene.

I see it now. Thank you! :bow:

Do you think Oregairu counts as a deconstruction of the RomCom genre?

[HereticMagus]

I see it now. Thank you! :bow:

Do you think Oregairu counts as a deconstruction of the RomCom genre?

I don't think OreGairu is bound by such shackles as a deconstruction. It is its own story, with enough purpose and substance to stand enough on its own without having to necessarily be a subversion or deconstruction of a collection of tropes.

[csuree]

Now for some genuine not conspiracy theories, I suppose my previous suggestion came off as too radical to be taken seriously. Let me rephrase a bit. What I am trying to say is, the thing might be that even though they are opposed to Yukino being adverse to family affairs outside, secretly, maybe even without knowing, they might be giving her some leeway so as to lessen the burden of responsibilities on her and happy that at least one of their daughters can lead a {relatively speaking) normal, unencumbered life.

So according to your theory (ripped down to basic terms) Yukimom and Yukidad give Yukino a free life so she can fulfill her dreams, but the cost of it is Haruno, and she has to sacrifice her own happy life...

This does not happen in a family of their stature...Yes I am aware that in every family the parents favor the younger one (even my parents favor my younger bro), but not by that much difference. What you imply is that Haruno is a slave of their social stature while Yukino can do as she pleases. That would not sit well with Haruno and she would do anything to make Yukino's life miserable.

But the current developments show us that while she is teasing her, she is doing it to push her forward, to challenge herself and do the best she can do with her abilities and not waste them sitting in a club reading all day.

I probably got too emotional but these are my honest feelings about your theory.

[SomeChineseGuy]

And marriage arranged to under age teens totally isn't creepy :uhoh:

Still less complicated.

One can never have too much depth. A depth that annuls the previously established depth in retrospect is much more of a depth than her current depth and the kind of depth that makes everyone go wow without ending ending without depth :eyespin:

SeriouslyThis is not a crack theory
like at all :rolleyes:


We uhhh... don't need to go deeper.

Now for some genuine not conspiracy theories, I suppose my previous suggestion came off as too radical to be taken seriously. Let me rephrase a bit. What I am trying to say is, the thing might be that even though they are opposed to Yukino being adverse to family affairs outside, secretly, maybe even without knowing, they might be giving her some leeway so as to lessen the burden of responsibilities on her and happy that at least one of their daughters can lead a {relatively speaking) normal, unencumbered life.

I think it's even less complicated than that. In such families younger kids are either left to their devices or utilized to e.g. gain some connections. So what I'm saying is you're giving Yukino's parents too much credit.

[lijenstina]

@HereticMagus

Your latest post reminded me that I've never answered your question from two months ago. Sorry, I started writing it and got stuck. Watari makes me think how there is always more meaning hidden somewhere. :eyespin:

To add to that, i think Watari also made a point to highlight the differences of these groups.
Both Miura and Iroha can't really talk about things among themselves, neither do they understand their differences or acknowledge them. It's relationship built around Hayama. Even if they know where the fault lies, they do mind having it out in the open for others too see. They don't just want the problem solved among themselves, they want it solved for people out of the coterie.
Compare this with the service club - they are not only ready to deal with the problems within themselves, but they are also okay with leaving a dent in their images so long as it is understood within the club, hence Yukino's "If people close to me understand, then that's okay"
It speaks volumes about their priorities.

You've asked some good questions so I started writing about it and when I've finished I went :eek:. How it ended up this long? Is this an essay ? I'm becoming a Zaimokuza? :D
Still, I feel think I've missed a ton of points. So to make things less cluttered on the forum I placed everything under spoilers. Anyway, sorry again for the delay and the TL;DR :)

Yes, I absolutely agree. It's a relationship built around Hayama. That's the main difference. Still, there are additional issues within the group.

Iroha did confess to Hayato in Vol. 9 spurred by witnessing the scene on the rooftop. Later on, she did, in her own way, try to achieve that genuine. Like Hikki noticed she was showing real concern about him in ch. 4. Although her tone was cheerful, she was showing concern for Hayama in her own way.. Hayato did say that the she shows her real side to him (as he noticed that she is also not afraid to that towards Hachiman) in vol. 8.

On the other side, Miura acted not only on jealousy when attacking Yukino, but from the same reasons as Isshiki and only after she saw how the rumor affected Hayato. Furthermore, Miura did wanted to know what his feelings and thoughts were even if she ended up losing him. Is not that also searching for something genuine? She showed her weakness, her emotions to others including Yukino, her archfoe. Something that Iroha did before – making it obvious what she felt. So, both girls made efforts to get closer to Hayama and still are trying to do so. However, there is a reason why it doesn't work. But I'll talk later about Hayato.

Most likely, both Iroha and Miura are aware of each others feelings towards Hayato. Miura did saw the outcome of the confession at the not Disney Whatever© - It looked like Miura guessed at what was going on after seeing that. She coiled her hair with her fingers and let out a deep sigh. while from the ch.3 gossiping girls we could hear that “But I wonder what Miura-san thinks about it.”. If outsiders did notice that it would be pretty much unbelievable that Isshiki didn't do the same. The scene where Miura storms in the clubroom and Iroha retreats shows that she, most likely knew the reason (guessing wasn't difficult judging from the mail also). If I dare to speculate, they probably hold the other girl as someone who really cares about him which is enough for them to coexist.

Well, it's clear that both girls do care about and place him above themselves. The thing is they do it individually and not together. Trying to protect him. Now, what Hachiman and Yui do when they find out about the rumor? They decide not tell Yukino because she'll get angry. A pattern of behavior that they did in vol. 9 too. Well, they also try to insulate from outsiders someone they're concerned about. To protect someone close to them.

Now we come to a paradoxical situation. Those two are, most likely, more aware about one's another feelings than Yui and Yukino. Does Yukino know about Yui's sentiments towards Hachiman? I don't think so. Yui did had doubts after hearing a rumor that maybe there is some truth to it, but then she agreed about Yukinoshita being socially awkward and not possibly having a boyfriend. Still, her previous doubt indicated that she doesn't really know what's going on with Yukino's feelings. Yui does have an explanation for it. (from vol.6)
“You see, I’m going to wait for Yukinon. I think she’s trying her best to talk to us and get closer to us… That’s why I’m going to wait for her.”
Yui is waiting for her to open up. She is being considerate. Heck, in his thoughts about Yukino's past Hachiman asks the same question about Yukino's past. And then contrast that with both Iroha and Miura did. They both asked Yukino straight on.

Well, of course, things are a bit more complicated. The Hayato's group girls could ask Yukino, but at the same time they couldn't Hayato about his choice for obvious reasons (him shooting down the question before). Hachiman couldn't ask Yukino about the rumor with Hayama, and her past with him, but he tried to ask the latter about the course choice (and about Yumiko). After thinking a bit about it what is difference? How close they are. The closer they were the more difficult it become, because they have to take into account the other's side feelings, and also now there is awareness about the consequences of their actions.

Or what Shizuka nicely said (I agree with you, that talk was really important).
“In this case, what you should be thinking about is why you don’t want to hurt anyone. And the answer should immediately come to you. ───It’s because they’re dear to you that you don’t want to hurt them.”
“However, if it’s someone you don’t care about, then it won’t bother you. What’s necessary is awareness. It’s exactly because you care that you’ll feel as if you had hurt someone.”
“To cherish someone means to have the resolve to hurt them.”
Like before, Shizuka is like the choir in the Ancient Greek dramas explaining to the audience what's going to happen. :)
While Haruno is the prime example of having that resolve to hurt someone (vol. 6).
My moving lips were stopped in place by her soft fingers.
“I don’t like perceptive kids, okay?”
Suppose that the existence of an enemy is the simplest way to spur human growth.
Could it be that this person was acting so she could appear as the enemy? I found myself thinking that despite having no proof at all.
There are yet a lot of untold things between the members of the Service Club even with their current attempts. As I said it before, that's the reason why asking Yukino was what Hachiman took as something he must do, even though the information itself wasn't really that important. Besides being driven by Haruno (like always she is on drums with Hiratsuka on the bass :D) it is also a continuation of the before mentioned talk with Yui from Vol. 6.

Let's go back to Hayato.
The girls while not being really friendly to each other, made efforts towards him. He, on the other side, kept his distance, or at least, tried to do so. His solutions are in avoiding conflict. Hachiman noted that he tried not to notice the feelings of others “Or maybe he did notice, but was acting as if he didn’t, just like how he did with other things. Why he does try to avoid it? So nobody gets hurt. That is the consequence of his incapability of being confrontational. When he snapped on Orimoto he did confess that “…It’s the worst feeling ever, I don’t want to do it again.” (vol. 8 ch. 5). There is also, a strong sentiment of self-deprecation which harks back to what Yukino said to him in volume 4.
"You can't do anything, didn't the same thing happen before?" (from the summary on the 15th page of this forum).
To cut the long story short, Iroha and Miura want something more with Hayato. While they are not really friends with each other, there some tacit understanding, acknowledgement and consideration of the other party emotions. They are both waiting for him to open up. Hayato is the one that doesn't allow things to change, or better say he can't. On one side it is related to his solution – keeping everyone happy thus avoiding the underlying issue of him being pushed into the position of making a tough choice and hurting someone. That's why keeps his relationships superficial.
“To cherish someone means to have the resolve to hurt them.”


Now here is the question: What is the correct stance here? Is it the club's resignation to making other's understand their reasoning? Or is it the Hayama-Miura-Isshiki trio's concern with the popular opinion, hence undermining their personal bond? Sensei's talk about closed happiness comes to mind. Perhaps this is part of the overarching problem, the 'terrible than trust' thing of Haruno?

One line that should come to mind when looking at these two groups is mentioned in the Second Memorandum.
Similarities and commonalities were exactly why discrepancies became apparent. They became distinct. Being so identical meant those differences wouldn’t be forgiven.
It's something comparable to what Watari uses. Placing both groups into similar situations and relationships to make the differences stand out a bit more. Jokingly, the correct stance is to observe them both and then conclude that nobody really knows what they're doing. Which is how the world works. :D
To a certain extent, Hayato's group has changed too. Iroha and Miura (Yumiko was the one that said it explicitly in Vol.7) now are not really concerned with appearances but with a genuine strive to understand and help Hayama. That's what takes priority for them. Partly it has to do with how Hayato did change after a series of events - (Tobe's attempted confession, Orimoto's incident, Iroha's confession, his course choice, standing up to Haruno, apologizing to Yukino), but also with him setting the tone of the relations with both girls. To use the metaphor from Vol. 9 - he doesn't allow them to step over the line.

However, he is what maintains the things as they are, for the before mentioned reasons. That really is not about appearances, it's about him first and foremost. His actions set the tone to it. The rot that the SC was in after the Hachiman wrong way of thinking in 8th reflected that nicely, even though Yukino and Yui did try to come up with solutions (on the initiative of Yukinoshita in the disguise of having a competition – on one side it is her strive to prove herself and deal with her insecurities especially after Haruno flipping out, but the initial spark was to change the environment that causes Hachiman's auto-destructive solutions and most importantly, to walk alongside him and not to follow).

Nevertheless, the Sensei's talk shows what the danger of the other approach could lead to (hurting someone). Hachiman's musings how everything is temporary give also the feeling that he is aware of it all the time.

Concerning trust. In No Longer Human There is a character that blindly trusts the protagonist Yozo (or how his name is translated) and that's the source of the final downfall of him.
Now leaving that aside, there is an interesting fact. Hachiman did talk to Ebina and Tobe concerning Hayato.


Tobe:
“…You trust him, huh?” I blurted out.
Tobe stared at me in amazement. “Nah, say what, that ain’t it, I think? Well, ya know, Hayato-kun is a pretty reliable fellow or somethin’?”
Seemingly embarrassed from the word “trust”, Tobe’s face turned red from the cold or his shyness while trying to rephrase his words.

Ebina:
“I see. You trust them quite a bit, don’t you?”
“That’s not really it… I just think Hayato-kun’s going to choose the method where no one is hurt. Rather than trust, it’s more like a selfish wish of mine.” Ebina-san smiled, sticking out her tongue.
Furthermore, Hikki's (ch.7) thought illustrates that nicely: His pride and his kindness were also swarmed with demands.
To understand why they've refrained of using that term, the following passage from Vol.6 (when Hachiman went to his class to fill up a form and searched Yui for help) give further insights into what is meant by those words.
(BTW the whole 6th volume's Yukino's Student Festival involvement very nicely dealt with that theme.)

But I went out of my way to find Yuigahama and even relied on her.
I was allowing that.
It was really easy to rely on Yuigahama.
However.
That’s exactly why I needed to keep myself in check.
To blindly place unrestrained faith in someone is dependence.
I mustn’t rely on Yuigahama’s kindness. I mustn’t let Yuigahama’s good will spoil me.
On the slim chance that all of that weren’t due to her kindness or good will, but due to much more different emotions, then I had to be even more careful. Because that was simply taking advantage of a person’s weakness.

Let's look what Yui did say to Hachiman.

“Promise me,” said Yuigahama, and unable to make any sense of her sudden words, I tilted my head wordlessly in response. Yuigahama stood still, and gazed right back at me. “That you’ll help Yukinon whenever she’s in trouble.”
Speaking of which, on our way home from the fireworks display, we did talk about something like that.
Similar to that time, her forceful sincerity overwhelmed me. That’s why I answered, to my greatest ability, honestly and authentically.
“Only if it’s something I can do.”
“Okay, that’s a relief then.” Yuigahama said, and smiled.
You’re putting me on the spot by placing your unconditional trust in me.
In the end, Sagami did use the word trust. Her case was obvious. (she just gave the chairman's stamp of approval to Yukino).
Sagami didn’t show any signs of shyness. “Ehhhh? But isn’t it more efficient this way? I think what’s important are the things we do and not these stiff formalities, riiight? You know, trust or something like that?”

So, basically there are two poles of the problem.
One is when a person relies on an another for selfish goals. The most extreme case is Sagami and to a much lesser degree is Ebina. The person that they rely on is reliable and gets the job done. They're not more interested in anything else than benefits. There are no emotions involved. That is more obvious and more straightforward to understand.
The other case of spectrum is more interesting, having unrestrained faith, unconditional trust in someone. The motive is different. This is not calculated nor using someone - this is sincere affection towards someone. The closest one (still, not a perfect example because there is a bit of calculation involved) is Yui's case. The whole 6th volume ends up with an 8man observation how Yui waits Yukino like a faithful dog. Then, there is the metaphor of the dog collar gift in vol.3 or the Yukino's words: ...if an honest person like you were with us, Yuigahama-san, that would be a great help.. However, like usual, Watari did add a layer or two of complexity to Yui's affection. That is related to how she is good at handling things (from 6.5) “Aah, that’s true. When you get told ‘you’re good at handling things’, you feel like you’re cheating or something.”... Hoh, surprisingly it was bothering her or So this was the mysterious hardheadedness that whipped Yukinoshita, huh…? that explains how Yukino gives away to Yui's demands illustrated by the 8-man mental notice of the “slightly unhealthy” relation between those two. Yui's behavior does have a tinge of manipulation. On further look, that hesitation for a moment in the infirmary scene seems to have some of those shadows in the background. Maybe, Watari lets us know how that level of trust isn't really possible? :)

The first case ends up in exploiting the object of trust. The second one has a danger of hurting/using the trusting person by playing on its weaknesses (affection). That's why Hachiman had that jab at Hayato – did he use Miura because she was convenient? It's pretty understandable why he asked knowing how recognizes it as a possible danger in his relation to Yui (with all the exemptions).
Of course, the majority of cases would be between those two extremes. People manipulate and get manipulated, there is a mixture of honest feelings and selfish goals, superficial assumptions and a real strive to learn about others - all at the same time.

Tentatively, we could add a third case. That is what can be called "altruistic self-interest" to use that term from the 2nd Memorandum. Where a person from his selfish reasons enables others to trust him. The prime example is Hayato. Hachiman did also follow that pattern to a certain extent but his reasons were different. Him taking the fall was just part of the solution that worked - "getting things done efficiently". Hayato is just avoiding the issue that he can't really deal with - relationships breaking apart.
How we should interpret the question of trust? Hachiman's thoughts about Rumi in Vol. 9 gave a clear hint.

Cooperation and trust were likely, more so than you could imagine, very cold things.
It was fine if you did things yourself, but that’s because you had to. By living your life without being a bother to anyone, for the very first time, you’d be able to ask for things from people. Once you’re able to live by yourself, for the very first time, you’d be able to walk alongside someone.
Because you lived by yourself, because you could do things by yourself, that you’d be able to do so with someone else.
Basically it's the difference between following and walking alongside someone. Also that is the key for reading the reason why Yukino did that Student Council election.

Just what is going on with Yukino? I'm sorry, but like 8man, I can't really see the big deal here.

I agree with what Excorsism noticed in his comments on that chapter 8th - who should we believe more?
Her sister and a childhood friend vs. someone who knows Yukino less than a year? Keep in mind that Hachiman doesn't know much what happened then, what's the history, why and in what ways he is comparing her past and her present self. A wish to change even an effort sometimes is not enough.
Vol 1. established some of the themes.

Something genuine
“It’s not as if I have ever wanted to be liked by people though.” She asserted and then added only a few more words. “Otherwise, if people genuinely did like me then that would have probably been a good thing.”

Changing yourself to save others
“You’re just running away from the problem. If you don’t change, you won’t move forward.”
….....
“…If that’s how it is, it wouldn’t solve any problems or save anybody.” As Yukinoshita spoke the word ‘save’, her expression was that of bloodcurdling anger. I inadvertently flinched. I was on the verge of apologizing by blurting out a ‘S-s-s-s-sorry!’ if needed be. Talking about salvation isn’t usually something a mere high school student would do. I just can’t understand what it is that is driving her this far.

Hints of Yukino's “You have something that I don’t”
“What do you mean when you say we’re of a different standard….I have my own opinion on being a loner. You could pretty much call me the king of the loners. On the other hand, it would be ridiculous to call someone like you a loner.”
“What’s this….bravely facing your circumstances even though you know it’s futile…” Yukinoshita appeared shocked and looked at me with an expression full of amazement.
….....
“If you had a friend who was generally popular with girls, what would you think?”
“That’s a stupid question. I don’t have any friends so I wouldn’t need to worry about such a thing.” I gave an exceedingly forceful reply. Like a man would. Even if I do say so myself, I was surprised at how I quickly cut in with a reply before she had even finish talking.
It seemed Yukinoshita was also surprised. She was at a loss for words with her mouth hanging open.
“…For a second, I actually thought you said something cool.”
Which of those are solved in the case of Yukino? That's a very tough question.

What important events happened in vol.10?

1. The family meeting. For starters, Yukino flatly rejected the Haruno's call, however, when she found that Hachiman was there she promptly came.
If we skip the before mentioned surprise about Yui and Hayato's remark towards Haruno the next important thing is the mother showing up. While Yukino doesn't follow Haruno's shadow anymore (I'll expand on that later), here it is clear that nothing much changed since the ending of the 4th volume. Yukino couldn't speak her mind, nor oppose and Haruno knows that. She used the mother as a trumping card in an argument with her before or as a test to see her reaction.
Some examples:

Vol. 3
“After all, Mother’s still mad over you living alone.”
The instant the word “Mother” came out, Yukinoshita’s entire body stiffened.
Vol. 4
“Come on, mother’s waiting.”
Yukinoshita, whose defiant attitude had been unshakeable until now, flinched in reaction.

Vol. 6
- “... I bet mom’s going to be really surprised after hearing about today… right?”
That smile, as if testing her, caused Yukinoshita’s expression to stiffen.
Vol. 8
“The way you just push things on to other people is exactly like mom.”
Those words were words Yukinoshita couldn’t respond to and all she could do was strongly clench her fist. Haruno moved her face closer to Yukinoshita and softly rubbed her nape.
“Well, that actually might just fit you Yukino. You don’t have to do anything after all. Someone will always do it for you, right?”
Vol. 10
Yukinoshita bit her lips, faced downwards, and peeked a glance in my direction. Uh, even if you look at me…
Haruno-san caught that. “Yukino-chan, that’s no good.”
Feelings of amusement shook in those cold eyes. With a vicious smile, Haruno-san spoke with a severe tone wearing a vicious smile and Yukinoshita’s shoulders jumped.

That pattern still repeats. Nothing changed there. The last two examples have also the additional meaning of "Someone will always do it for you" - her glance towards 8-man in the last one. That one is about following someone, I'll talk about it later on.

So, apart from the Yukino's clear unsolved issue with her mom, what this could be?
Let's look at the I wonder series of speeches from vol. 9 and 10.

Vol. 9
“Are you still thinking you want to be like that person?”
At some point during the Culture Festival, Yukinoshita mentioned she held admiration of her in the past.
“I wonder. I don’t think so right now, but… It’s just nee-san has something that I don’t.”
“It’s because I realized that there wasn’t anything that I could do that I started wanting to have something that you and nee-san didn’t have… I thought that if I had that, then I can save something.”
“And you want that?”
Yukinoshita quietly shook her head.
“No, I just thought “why didn’t I have that?” and became disappointed in myself who didn’t have it.”
…...
“Save what?”
Just what exactly was it that she needed and what was it that she could save? I wanted to fill in those lacking words so I asked her.
However, Yukinoshita wouldn’t tell me.
“…Who knows? What could it be, I wonder?”
Yukinoshita’s only response was a girlish smile as if she was testing me.

Vol. 10
“Ahh, that happened, didn’t it? And Yukino-chan would always cry afterwards.”
“Wait… Stop making up things.”
“But they’re not made up though. Right, Hayato?”
“Ahaha… I wonder.”
…...
Hayama’s expression was filled with surprise. Taken aback, he made a fixed gaze at Yukinoshita. “…You’ve changed a little.”
“I wonder about that. It’s just a lot of things are different from back then,” said Yukinoshita, and she moved her gaze towards Yuigahama. Then, she glanced at me.
….....
“I wonder if genuine things really exist…” Haruno-san looked overhead at the winter sky with suspended thick clouds and muttered. Where was her question that was tinged with a faint ring of loneliness directed at?

Here is also a recurring pattern. There are several connections.
All of those are related to the past events that Hachiman or we as readers don't know much about. There're only fragments of knowledge scattered around or as Hikki noticed in Vol.6:

What is it we should have to call it “knowing”? We didn’t understand that.
…...
Our statues were constructed from just our names and fragmentary impressions of each other, like that of mosaic, burying one fragment one by one until we were able to make up virtual images of each other.
And surely enough, those images probably weren’t even real.
Of course, there is a difference, now Hachiman wants to know. He instead of reading between the lines for a hidden meaning (a thing that brought him to a wrong conclusion about Yukino's intentions in Vol 8) now tries to grasp the underlying emotions. Still, the gaps in knowledge are a serious obstacle to really understand others.

The next one is related to the previous point – tacit understanding between people who have history together. In Hachiman's case in Vol. 10 the analogy would be with Komachi having the exams blues and thus getting reminded about her hidden side - “Her sulking brought back memories of when she was a little kid.“ Or their reconciliation talk after the fight they've had in Vol.8. In Yukino's case, that exists between her, Hayato and Haruno.

The third would be testing someone's understanding of the underlying motives. Yukino does it clearly in Vol.9 towards Hachiman and in the Vol. 10 with Hayato it is implied.

The final one would be the expression of self doubt and realization that (connected to the previous point) the problem is not yet solved. The first and the last one quotes have clear signs of it. To put it simply, the thinking that Hikki had after the talk with Sensei (in vol.9) about the prime reason for his actions should be the cause. The fact that she followed Haruno and now most likely Hachiman (we could add Yui too) is just a consequence of a deeper problem (powerlessness, lacking something). We could add to it those before mentioned thoughts about walking with someone instead of following.
She said to 8-man that You have something that I don’t. That sense of her own deficiency is the problem, especially compared to Haruno. Lacking charm, being socially awkward. “It’s because I can’t deal with people the way you and Yuigahama can.” (Vol.9). Hachiman also noticed from the beginning that she is very competitive and a sore loser. By own Yukino's words “I’m not particularly fond of standing in front of others.”, “I am rather fond of standing over others, however…” (Vol.4).
Clumsishita-san Clumsinon™ (by Hachiman) is idealistic, honest and awkward, terrible at explaining things, has "sparkling communication skills", with a bad sense of direction (“So why were you walking towards a wall?”), and most importantly, a very sweet girl even though her appearance of being cold and unapproachable is a defensive barrier from the inferiority and jealousy of others that ends up isolating her. That's what's mentioned from the start in vol. 1, and shows up from time to time (there is in vol. 5 a comparison between her (retribution) and Saki (intimidation) and Haruno's talk, or in the latest in Vol.10 with Muira – You are not the first speech). And yet from the start she yearned for genuine affection. She doesn't lie, but keeps silent about things. She also, over time, constructed an image of Hachiman based upon assumptions -“…So there’re things you don’t understand too.” and “No… I was just thinking that you had all this in mind already as well.” (Vol.9)

Apart from the "I wonder" talks, some other ones could be added to explain further what I meant.

Yukino herself did repeat the Hachiman's words to Hayato (from Vol.7) in her speech “...For it to be destroyed from just that only means that’s what it ultimately came down to… No?”(Vol.9)

Yukino's : "It’s not something I’m concerned with at this point… It’s enough that the people I’m close to understand, so it’s not a problem." (Vol.10)

In the end, these speeches are converging to one point. It's that "Something genuine" that both Yukino and Hachiman wanted (and Yui does also).
The best definition of it comes from Hachiman's thoughts at end of the 8th book.
Even if you didn’t say anything, it would reach; even if you didn’t do anything, it’d be understandable; even if anything happened, it wouldn’t break.
That illusion that was far from reality and foolish, yet beautiful.

What she wanted to have from the beginning. Her doubt: “What in the world is that genuine thing that you asked for?” could be interpreted from the Hikki's thoughts:
But being unable to completely obtain it, I started to think it didn’t exist.

Let's add to that one of the ending thoughts of our Genuine in Development protagonist. Something genuine. That’s to say, the truth, or perhaps sincerity. Just exactly which of them you could call genuine, I still had yet to understand. In vein of the sincerity and truth let's make an example happened after the Rooftop scene in the previous book.
8-man told a lie how Komachi likes Pan-san (Yukino's weak point) to convince her going to Destinyland with them.(He used Komachi as an excuse to help Iroha before). It's not much but the similarity is striking.

Now we come to the second important event.
2. The rumor. Those Yukino's words about people close understanding are interesting. Like I mentioned before, both Hikki and Yui got doubts about it (albeit Hachiman did refuse it but only on an emotional level and voicing rationalizations) and decided to keep it from Yukino (being considerate of her). BTW, one of the reasons why he felt compelled to talk to Yukino was that part of Sensei's talk - how someday someone will show up that understands her.
Well, there is an another layer to the rumor. Remember the end of the marathon talk between Hachiman and Hayato.

“Are you bothered by the rumor?”
“Huh? No, that’s not really it… It’s just, well, you know, that… Kind of.”
When I fretted over how to explain it, Hayama raised his voice and laughed. Despite running with such a beautiful form, his upper body was shaking bit by bit and then swaying.
“…What’s so funny?” I asked.
Hayama wiped his eyes forcibly. “Nothing, sorry. You don’t need to worry about it. I’ll make sure it goes away.”
“Ahh, if you can, that’d help me a lot. I can’t stand how tense the club is right now.”
It's very interesting.
Hachiman couldn't do anything, even though it strained the relationships in the Club. It's also interesting how he didn't notice relying on Hayama, nor how that is, at least superficially, similar to what happened in Vol. 7. Furthermore, Hayama did, similarly to Hikki, solve something incompletely, in the only way he could do it by fulfilling everyone's expectations, including Hachiman's. In a way, Vol. 10 is about some Hayama's redemption after all. Not to mention how it reminds about someone else who couldn't do anything about it?
One plus point for the nothing changed team. :)

After all of this - we come to the meat and potatoes of this long assed post. :eyespin:
Yukino following.
Does she still follows? Yes. Is she aware of it? Maybe. Her's "I wonder about that" answer to Hayato seems to hint some realization that she still has a long way to go.

The most obvious example is her happy childlike face after everyone is going to be together for now in the infirmary scene (vol. 10). Remember that Yukino wanted to go a similar Uni as Haruno (a thing that Haruno herself didn't want - she wanted to go to a better school vol. 5). Now she switched to a liberal curse that both Hachiman and Yui would go. Even if that choice is not important in her case, it tell us about her motivation. And that's funny for two reasons.

1) Yukino is not really chasing her own dream and finding out what she wants to do (the caveat is that Exor did mention something about Yukino saying something more in 10.5 so that could change)

2) Hachiman didn't really make a choice he was just going with the flow of his loopsided grades. Yui is the faithful dog. One of the themes in Vol.10 is how choice is not really a choice after all and, in the end, it's more about everything else. To the endless joy of Haruno. :heh:

So, we have Yukino pursuing Hachiman, who is influenced by his circumstances (grades), instead of Haruno influenced by the family wishes.(There is a caution to that conclusion - Hachiman did think about his future in vol 10.5 - so there is hope).

Now I'm not going to elaborate more (this post is so long anyway) on the Yukino's way of solving problems - The Volume 8's everyone for themselves (similar to what Hachiman did in Vol.4 in Rumi's case so they can show there real intentions), the vol. 9's two cases - the speech about being considerate all the time and how he should stop coming to the club (what Hachiman did in Vol. 2 to Yui for the same reasons) and the repeating of what Hachiman did in Vol. 6 - making the other SC have a common enemy. Finally, in Vol. 10 as the continuation of the previous example the Enclosed happiness strikes again - ergo Hikki got a follower. It's a great example of his rationalizations being accepted (making excuses is pointless) modified with her own need for understanding (Vol. 6 - Yukino asking about clearing up the mix-up after the Culture Festival name meeting).

However, it is not to say that all is bleak concerning the possible outcome.“Think, struggle, stumble, and worry. - Without those, it’s not genuine.” To achieve that the 10th volume had to end up like it did.

[eceso]

^Great post

[Lan91]

@HereticMagus

Your latest post reminded me that I've never answered your question from two months ago. Sorry, I started writing it and got stuck. Watari makes me think how there is always more meaning hidden somewhere. :eyespin:



You've asked some good questions so I started writing about it and when I've finished I went :eek:. How it ended up this long? Is this an essay ? I'm becoming a Zaimokuza? :D
Still, I feel think I've missed a ton of points. So to make things less cluttered on the forum I placed everything under spoilers. Anyway, sorry again for the delay and the TL;DR :)

Yes, I absolutely agree. It's a relationship built around Hayama. That's the main difference. Still, there are additional issues within the group.

Iroha did confess to Hayato in Vol. 9 spurred by witnessing the scene on the rooftop. Later on, she did, in her own way, try to achieve that genuine. Like Hikki noticed she was showing real concern about him in ch. 4. Although her tone was cheerful, she was showing concern for Hayama in her own way.. Hayato did say that the she shows her real side to him (as he noticed that she is also not afraid to that towards Hachiman) in vol. 8.

On the other side, Miura acted not only on jealousy when attacking Yukino, but from the same reasons as Isshiki and only after she saw how the rumor affected Hayato. Furthermore, Miura did wanted to know what his feelings and thoughts were even if she ended up losing him. Is not that also searching for something genuine? She showed her weakness, her emotions to others including Yukino, her archfoe. Something that Iroha did before – making it obvious what she felt. So, both girls made efforts to get closer to Hayama and still are trying to do so. However, there is a reason why it doesn't work. But I'll talk later about Hayato.

Most likely, both Iroha and Miura are aware of each others feelings towards Hayato. Miura did saw the outcome of the confession at the not Disney Whatever© - It looked like Miura guessed at what was going on after seeing that. She coiled her hair with her fingers and let out a deep sigh. while from the ch.3 gossiping girls we could hear that “But I wonder what Miura-san thinks about it.”. If outsiders did notice that it would be pretty much unbelievable that Isshiki didn't do the same. The scene where Miura storms in the clubroom and Iroha retreats shows that she, most likely knew the reason (guessing wasn't difficult judging from the mail also). If I dare to speculate, they probably hold the other girl as someone who really cares about him which is enough for them to coexist.

Well, it's clear that both girls do care about and place him above themselves. The thing is they do it individually and not together. Trying to protect him. Now, what Hachiman and Yui do when they find out about the rumor? They decide not tell Yukino because she'll get angry. A pattern of behavior that they did in vol. 9 too. Well, they also try to insulate from outsiders someone they're concerned about. To protect someone close to them.

Now we come to a paradoxical situation. Those two are, most likely, more aware about one's another feelings than Yui and Yukino. Does Yukino know about Yui's sentiments towards Hachiman? I don't think so. Yui did had doubts after hearing a rumor that maybe there is some truth to it, but then she agreed about Yukinoshita being socially awkward and not possibly having a boyfriend. Still, her previous doubt indicated that she doesn't really know what's going on with Yukino's feelings. Yui does have an explanation for it. (from vol.6)
“You see, I’m going to wait for Yukinon. I think she’s trying her best to talk to us and get closer to us… That’s why I’m going to wait for her.”
Yui is waiting for her to open up. She is being considerate. Heck, in his thoughts about Yukino's past Hachiman asks the same question about Yukino's past. And then contrast that with both Iroha and Miura did. They both asked Yukino straight on.

Well, of course, things are a bit more complicated. The Hayato's group girls could ask Yukino, but at the same time they couldn't Hayato about his choice for obvious reasons (him shooting down the question before). Hachiman couldn't ask Yukino about the rumor with Hayama, and her past with him, but he tried to ask the latter about the course choice (and about Yumiko). After thinking a bit about it what is difference? How close they are. The closer they were the more difficult it become, because they have to take into account the other's side feelings, and also now there is awareness about the consequences of their actions.

Or what Shizuka nicely said (I agree with you, that talk was really important).
“In this case, what you should be thinking about is why you don’t want to hurt anyone. And the answer should immediately come to you. ───It’s because they’re dear to you that you don’t want to hurt them.”
“However, if it’s someone you don’t care about, then it won’t bother you. What’s necessary is awareness. It’s exactly because you care that you’ll feel as if you had hurt someone.”
“To cherish someone means to have the resolve to hurt them.”
Like before, Shizuka is like the choir in the Ancient Greek dramas explaining to the audience what's going to happen. :)
While Haruno is the prime example of having that resolve to hurt someone (vol. 6).
My moving lips were stopped in place by her soft fingers.
“I don’t like perceptive kids, okay?”
Suppose that the existence of an enemy is the simplest way to spur human growth.
Could it be that this person was acting so she could appear as the enemy? I found myself thinking that despite having no proof at all.
There are yet a lot of untold things between the members of the Service Club even with their current attempts. As I said it before, that's the reason why asking Yukino was what Hachiman took as something he must do, even though the information itself wasn't really that important. Besides being driven by Haruno (like always she is on drums with Hiratsuka on the bass :D) it is also a continuation of the before mentioned talk with Yui from Vol. 6.

Let's go back to Hayato.
The girls while not being really friendly to each other, made efforts towards him. He, on the other side, kept his distance, or at least, tried to do so. His solutions are in avoiding conflict. Hachiman noted that he tried not to notice the feelings of others “Or maybe he did notice, but was acting as if he didn’t, just like how he did with other things. Why he does try to avoid it? So nobody gets hurt. That is the consequence of his incapability of being confrontational. When he snapped on Orimoto he did confess that “…It’s the worst feeling ever, I don’t want to do it again.” (vol. 8 ch. 5). There is also, a strong sentiment of self-deprecation which harks back to what Yukino said to him in volume 4.
"You can't do anything, didn't the same thing happen before?" (from the summary on the 15th page of this forum).
To cut the long story short, Iroha and Miura want something more with Hayato. While they are not really friends with each other, there some tacit understanding, acknowledgement and consideration of the other party emotions. They are both waiting for him to open up. Hayato is the one that doesn't allow things to change, or better say he can't. On one side it is related to his solution – keeping everyone happy thus avoiding the underlying issue of him being pushed into the position of making a tough choice and hurting someone. That's why keeps his relationships superficial.
“To cherish someone means to have the resolve to hurt them.”




One line that should come to mind when looking at these two groups is mentioned in the Second Memorandum.
Similarities and commonalities were exactly why discrepancies became apparent. They became distinct. Being so identical meant those differences wouldn’t be forgiven.
It's something comparable to what Watari uses. Placing both groups into similar situations and relationships to make the differences stand out a bit more. Jokingly, the correct stance is to observe them both and then conclude that nobody really knows what they're doing. Which is how the world works. :D
To a certain extent, Hayato's group has changed too. Iroha and Miura (Yumiko was the one that said it explicitly in Vol.7) now are not really concerned with appearances but with a genuine strive to understand and help Hayama. That's what takes priority for them. Partly it has to do with how Hayato did change after a series of events - (Tobe's attempted confession, Orimoto's incident, Iroha's confession, his course choice, standing up to Haruno, apologizing to Yukino), but also with him setting the tone of the relations with both girls. To use the metaphor from Vol. 9 - he doesn't allow them to step over the line.

However, he is what maintains the things as they are, for the before mentioned reasons. That really is not about appearances, it's about him first and foremost. His actions set the tone to it. The rot that the SC was in after the Hachiman wrong way of thinking in 8th reflected that nicely, even though Yukino and Yui did try to come up with solutions (on the initiative of Yukinoshita in the disguise of having a competition – on one side it is her strive to prove herself and deal with her insecurities especially after Haruno flipping out, but the initial spark was to change the environment that causes Hachiman's auto-destructive solutions and most importantly, to walk alongside him and not to follow).

Nevertheless, the Sensei's talk shows what the danger of the other approach could lead to (hurting someone). Hachiman's musings how everything is temporary give also the feeling that he is aware of it all the time.

Concerning trust. In No Longer Human There is a character that blindly trusts the protagonist Yozo (or how his name is translated) and that's the source of the final downfall of him.
Now leaving that aside, there is an interesting fact. Hachiman did talk to Ebina and Tobe concerning Hayato.


Tobe:
“…You trust him, huh?” I blurted out.
Tobe stared at me in amazement. “Nah, say what, that ain’t it, I think? Well, ya know, Hayato-kun is a pretty reliable fellow or somethin’?”
Seemingly embarrassed from the word “trust”, Tobe’s face turned red from the cold or his shyness while trying to rephrase his words.

Ebina:
“I see. You trust them quite a bit, don’t you?”
“That’s not really it… I just think Hayato-kun’s going to choose the method where no one is hurt. Rather than trust, it’s more like a selfish wish of mine.” Ebina-san smiled, sticking out her tongue.
Furthermore, Hikki's (ch.7) thought illustrates that nicely: His pride and his kindness were also swarmed with demands.
To understand why they've refrained of using that term, the following passage from Vol.6 (when Hachiman went to his class to fill up a form and searched Yui for help) give further insights into what is meant by those words.
(BTW the whole 6th volume's Yukino's Student Festival involvement very nicely dealt with that theme.)

But I went out of my way to find Yuigahama and even relied on her.
I was allowing that.
It was really easy to rely on Yuigahama.
However.
That’s exactly why I needed to keep myself in check.
To blindly place unrestrained faith in someone is dependence.
I mustn’t rely on Yuigahama’s kindness. I mustn’t let Yuigahama’s good will spoil me.
On the slim chance that all of that weren’t due to her kindness or good will, but due to much more different emotions, then I had to be even more careful. Because that was simply taking advantage of a person’s weakness.

Let's look what Yui did say to Hachiman.

“Promise me,” said Yuigahama, and unable to make any sense of her sudden words, I tilted my head wordlessly in response. Yuigahama stood still, and gazed right back at me. “That you’ll help Yukinon whenever she’s in trouble.”
Speaking of which, on our way home from the fireworks display, we did talk about something like that.
Similar to that time, her forceful sincerity overwhelmed me. That’s why I answered, to my greatest ability, honestly and authentically.
“Only if it’s something I can do.”
“Okay, that’s a relief then.” Yuigahama said, and smiled.
You’re putting me on the spot by placing your unconditional trust in me.
In the end, Sagami did use the word trust. Her case was obvious. (she just gave the chairman's stamp of approval to Yukino).
Sagami didn’t show any signs of shyness. “Ehhhh? But isn’t it more efficient this way? I think what’s important are the things we do and not these stiff formalities, riiight? You know, trust or something like that?”

So, basically there are two poles of the problem.
One is when a person relies on an another for selfish goals. The most extreme case is Sagami and to a much lesser degree is Ebina. The person that they rely on is reliable and gets the job done. They're not more interested in anything else than benefits. There are no emotions involved. That is more obvious and more straightforward to understand.
The other case of spectrum is more interesting, having unrestrained faith, unconditional trust in someone. The motive is different. This is not calculated nor using someone - this is sincere affection towards someone. The closest one (still, not a perfect example because there is a bit of calculation involved) is Yui's case. The whole 6th volume ends up with an 8man observation how Yui waits Yukino like a faithful dog. Then, there is the metaphor of the dog collar gift in vol.3 or the Yukino's words: ...if an honest person like you were with us, Yuigahama-san, that would be a great help.. However, like usual, Watari did add a layer or two of complexity to Yui's affection. That is related to how she is good at handling things (from 6.5) “Aah, that’s true. When you get told ‘you’re good at handling things’, you feel like you’re cheating or something.”... Hoh, surprisingly it was bothering her or So this was the mysterious hardheadedness that whipped Yukinoshita, huh…? that explains how Yukino gives away to Yui's demands illustrated by the 8-man mental notice of the “slightly unhealthy” relation between those two. Yui's behavior does have a tinge of manipulation. On further look, that hesitation for a moment in the infirmary scene seems to have some of those shadows in the background. Maybe, Watari lets us know how that level of trust isn't really possible? :)

The first case ends up in exploiting the object of trust. The second one has a danger of hurting/using the trusting person by playing on its weaknesses (affection). That's why Hachiman had that jab at Hayato – did he use Miura because she was convenient? It's pretty understandable why he asked knowing how recognizes it as a possible danger in his relation to Yui (with all the exemptions).
Of course, the majority of cases would be between those two extremes. People manipulate and get manipulated, there is a mixture of honest feelings and selfish goals, superficial assumptions and a real strive to learn about others - all at the same time.

Tentatively, we could add a third case. That is what can be called "altruistic self-interest" to use that term from the 2nd Memorandum. Where a person from his selfish reasons enables others to trust him. The prime example is Hayato. Hachiman did also follow that pattern to a certain extent but his reasons were different. Him taking the fall was just part of the solution that worked - "getting things done efficiently". Hayato is just avoiding the issue that he can't really deal with - relationships breaking apart.
How we should interpret the question of trust? Hachiman's thoughts about Rumi in Vol. 9 gave a clear hint.

Basically it's the difference between following and walking alongside someone. Also that is the key for reading the reason why Yukino did that Student Council election.



I agree with what Excorsism noticed in his comments on that chapter 8th - who should we believe more?
Her sister and a childhood friend vs. someone who knows Yukino less than a year? Keep in mind that Hachiman doesn't know much what happened then, what's the history, why and in what ways he is comparing her past and her present self. A wish to change even an effort sometimes is not enough.
Vol 1. established some of the themes.

Something genuine
“It’s not as if I have ever wanted to be liked by people though.” She asserted and then added only a few more words. “Otherwise, if people genuinely did like me then that would have probably been a good thing.”

Changing yourself to save others
“You’re just running away from the problem. If you don’t change, you won’t move forward.”
….....
“…If that’s how it is, it wouldn’t solve any problems or save anybody.” As Yukinoshita spoke the word ‘save’, her expression was that of bloodcurdling anger. I inadvertently flinched. I was on the verge of apologizing by blurting out a ‘S-s-s-s-sorry!’ if needed be. Talking about salvation isn’t usually something a mere high school student would do. I just can’t understand what it is that is driving her this far.

Hints of Yukino's “You have something that I don’t”
“What do you mean when you say we’re of a different standard….I have my own opinion on being a loner. You could pretty much call me the king of the loners. On the other hand, it would be ridiculous to call someone like you a loner.”
“What’s this….bravely facing your circumstances even though you know it’s futile…” Yukinoshita appeared shocked and looked at me with an expression full of amazement.
….....
“If you had a friend who was generally popular with girls, what would you think?”
“That’s a stupid question. I don’t have any friends so I wouldn’t need to worry about such a thing.” I gave an exceedingly forceful reply. Like a man would. Even if I do say so myself, I was surprised at how I quickly cut in with a reply before she had even finish talking.
It seemed Yukinoshita was also surprised. She was at a loss for words with her mouth hanging open.
“…For a second, I actually thought you said something cool.”
Which of those are solved in the case of Yukino? That's a very tough question.

What important events happened in vol.10?

1. The family meeting. For starters, Yukino flatly rejected the Haruno's call, however, when she found that Hachiman was there she promptly came.
If we skip the before mentioned surprise about Yui and Hayato's remark towards Haruno the next important thing is the mother showing up. While Yukino doesn't follow Haruno's shadow anymore (I'll expand on that later), here it is clear that nothing much changed since the ending of the 4th volume. Yukino couldn't speak her mind, nor oppose and Haruno knows that. She used the mother as a trumping card in an argument with her before or as a test to see her reaction.
Some examples:

Vol. 3
“After all, Mother’s still mad over you living alone.”
The instant the word “Mother” came out, Yukinoshita’s entire body stiffened.
Vol. 4
“Come on, mother’s waiting.”
Yukinoshita, whose defiant attitude had been unshakeable until now, flinched in reaction.

Vol. 6
- “... I bet mom’s going to be really surprised after hearing about today… right?”
That smile, as if testing her, caused Yukinoshita’s expression to stiffen.
Vol. 8
“The way you just push things on to other people is exactly like mom.”
Those words were words Yukinoshita couldn’t respond to and all she could do was strongly clench her fist. Haruno moved her face closer to Yukinoshita and softly rubbed her nape.
“Well, that actually might just fit you Yukino. You don’t have to do anything after all. Someone will always do it for you, right?”
Vol. 10
Yukinoshita bit her lips, faced downwards, and peeked a glance in my direction. Uh, even if you look at me…
Haruno-san caught that. “Yukino-chan, that’s no good.”
Feelings of amusement shook in those cold eyes. With a vicious smile, Haruno-san spoke with a severe tone wearing a vicious smile and Yukinoshita’s shoulders jumped.

That pattern still repeats. Nothing changed there. The last two examples have also the additional meaning of "Someone will always do it for you" - her glance towards 8-man in the last one. That one is about following someone, I'll talk about it later on.

So, apart from the Yukino's clear unsolved issue with her mom, what this could be?
Let's look at the I wonder series of speeches from vol. 9 and 10.

Vol. 9
“Are you still thinking you want to be like that person?”
At some point during the Culture Festival, Yukinoshita mentioned she held admiration of her in the past.
“I wonder. I don’t think so right now, but… It’s just nee-san has something that I don’t.”
“It’s because I realized that there wasn’t anything that I could do that I started wanting to have something that you and nee-san didn’t have… I thought that if I had that, then I can save something.”
“And you want that?”
Yukinoshita quietly shook her head.
“No, I just thought “why didn’t I have that?” and became disappointed in myself who didn’t have it.”
…...
“Save what?”
Just what exactly was it that she needed and what was it that she could save? I wanted to fill in those lacking words so I asked her.
However, Yukinoshita wouldn’t tell me.
“…Who knows? What could it be, I wonder?”
Yukinoshita’s only response was a girlish smile as if she was testing me.

Vol. 10
“Ahh, that happened, didn’t it? And Yukino-chan would always cry afterwards.”
“Wait… Stop making up things.”
“But they’re not made up though. Right, Hayato?”
“Ahaha… I wonder.”
…...
Hayama’s expression was filled with surprise. Taken aback, he made a fixed gaze at Yukinoshita. “…You’ve changed a little.”
“I wonder about that. It’s just a lot of things are different from back then,” said Yukinoshita, and she moved her gaze towards Yuigahama. Then, she glanced at me.
….....
“I wonder if genuine things really exist…” Haruno-san looked overhead at the winter sky with suspended thick clouds and muttered. Where was her question that was tinged with a faint ring of loneliness directed at?

Here is also a recurring pattern. There are several connections.
All of those are related to the past events that Hachiman or we as readers don't know much about. There're only fragments of knowledge scattered around or as Hikki noticed in Vol.6:

What is it we should have to call it “knowing”? We didn’t understand that.
…...
Our statues were constructed from just our names and fragmentary impressions of each other, like that of mosaic, burying one fragment one by one until we were able to make up virtual images of each other.
And surely enough, those images probably weren’t even real.
Of course, there is a difference, now Hachiman wants to know. He instead of reading between the lines for a hidden meaning (a thing that brought him to a wrong conclusion about Yukino's intentions in Vol 8) now tries to grasp the underlying emotions. Still, the gaps in knowledge are a serious obstacle to really understand others.

The next one is related to the previous point – tacit understanding between people who have history together. In Hachiman's case in Vol. 10 the analogy would be with Komachi having the exams blues and thus getting reminded about her hidden side - “Her sulking brought back memories of when she was a little kid.“ Or their reconciliation talk after the fight they've had in Vol.8. In Yukino's case, that exists between her, Hayato and Haruno.

The third would be testing someone's understanding of the underlying motives. Yukino does it clearly in Vol.9 towards Hachiman and in the Vol. 10 with Hayato it is implied.

The final one would be the expression of self doubt and realization that (connected to the previous point) the problem is not yet solved. The first and the last one quotes have clear signs of it. To put it simply, the thinking that Hikki had after the talk with Sensei (in vol.9) about the prime reason for his actions should be the cause. The fact that she followed Haruno and now most likely Hachiman (we could add Yui too) is just a consequence of a deeper problem (powerlessness, lacking something). We could add to it those before mentioned thoughts about walking with someone instead of following.
She said to 8-man that You have something that I don’t. That sense of her own deficiency is the problem, especially compared to Haruno. Lacking charm, being socially awkward. “It’s because I can’t deal with people the way you and Yuigahama can.” (Vol.9). Hachiman also noticed from the beginning that she is very competitive and a sore loser. By own Yukino's words “I’m not particularly fond of standing in front of others.”, “I am rather fond of standing over others, however…” (Vol.4).
Clumsishita-san Clumsinon™ (by Hachiman) is idealistic, honest and awkward, terrible at explaining things, has "sparkling communication skills", with a bad sense of direction (“So why were you walking towards a wall?”), and most importantly, a very sweet girl even though her appearance of being cold and unapproachable is a defensive barrier from the inferiority and jealousy of others that ends up isolating her. That's what's mentioned from the start in vol. 1, and shows up from time to time (there is in vol. 5 a comparison between her (retribution) and Saki (intimidation) and Haruno's talk, or in the latest in Vol.10 with Muira – You are not the first speech). And yet from the start she yearned for genuine affection. She doesn't lie, but keeps silent about things. She also, over time, constructed an image of Hachiman based upon assumptions -“…So there’re things you don’t understand too.” and “No… I was just thinking that you had all this in mind already as well.” (Vol.9)

Apart from the "I wonder" talks, some other ones could be added to explain further what I meant.

Yukino herself did repeat the Hachiman's words to Hayato (from Vol.7) in her speech “...For it to be destroyed from just that only means that’s what it ultimately came down to… No?”(Vol.9)

Yukino's : "It’s not something I’m concerned with at this point… It’s enough that the people I’m close to understand, so it’s not a problem." (Vol.10)

In the end, these speeches are converging to one point. It's that "Something genuine" that both Yukino and Hachiman wanted (and Yui does also).
The best definition of it comes from Hachiman's thoughts at end of the 8th book.
Even if you didn’t say anything, it would reach; even if you didn’t do anything, it’d be understandable; even if anything happened, it wouldn’t break.
That illusion that was far from reality and foolish, yet beautiful.

What she wanted to have from the beginning. Her doubt: “What in the world is that genuine thing that you asked for?” could be interpreted from the Hikki's thoughts:
But being unable to completely obtain it, I started to think it didn’t exist.

Let's add to that one of the ending thoughts of our Genuine in Development protagonist. Something genuine. That’s to say, the truth, or perhaps sincerity. Just exactly which of them you could call genuine, I still had yet to understand. In vein of the sincerity and truth let's make an example happened after the Rooftop scene in the previous book.
8-man told a lie how Komachi likes Pan-san (Yukino's weak point) to convince her going to Destinyland with them.(He used Komachi as an excuse to help Iroha before). It's not much but the similarity is striking.

Now we come to the second important event.
2. The rumor. Those Yukino's words about people close understanding are interesting. Like I mentioned before, both Hikki and Yui got doubts about it (albeit Hachiman did refuse it but only on an emotional level and voicing rationalizations) and decided to keep it from Yukino (being considerate of her). BTW, one of the reasons why he felt compelled to talk to Yukino was that part of Sensei's talk - how someday someone will show up that understands her.
Well, there is an another layer to the rumor. Remember the end of the marathon talk between Hachiman and Hayato.

“Are you bothered by the rumor?”
“Huh? No, that’s not really it… It’s just, well, you know, that… Kind of.”
When I fretted over how to explain it, Hayama raised his voice and laughed. Despite running with such a beautiful form, his upper body was shaking bit by bit and then swaying.
“…What’s so funny?” I asked.
Hayama wiped his eyes forcibly. “Nothing, sorry. You don’t need to worry about it. I’ll make sure it goes away.”
“Ahh, if you can, that’d help me a lot. I can’t stand how tense the club is right now.”
It's very interesting.
Hachiman couldn't do anything, even though it strained the relationships in the Club. It's also interesting how he didn't notice relying on Hayama, nor how that is, at least superficially, similar to what happened in Vol. 7. Furthermore, Hayama did, similarly to Hikki, solve something incompletely, in the only way he could do it by fulfilling everyone's expectations, including Hachiman's. In a way, Vol. 10 is about some Hayama's redemption after all. Not to mention how it reminds about someone else who couldn't do anything about it?
One plus point for the nothing changed team. :)

After all of this - we come to the meat and potatoes of this long assed post. :eyespin:
Yukino following.
Does she still follows? Yes. Is she aware of it? Maybe. Her's "I wonder about that" answer to Hayato seems to hint some realization that she still has a long way to go.

The most obvious example is her happy childlike face after everyone is going to be together for now in the infirmary scene (vol. 10). Remember that Yukino wanted to go a similar Uni as Haruno (a thing that Haruno herself didn't want - she wanted to go to a better school vol. 5). Now she switched to a liberal curse that both Hachiman and Yui would go. Even if that choice is not important in her case, it tell us about her motivation. And that's funny for two reasons.

1) Yukino is not really chasing her own dream and finding out what she wants to do (the caveat is that Exor did mention something about Yukino saying something more in 10.5 so that could change)

2) Hachiman didn't really make a choice he was just going with the flow of his loopsided grades. Yui is the faithful dog. One of the themes in Vol.10 is how choice is not really a choice after all and, in the end, it's more about everything else. To the endless joy of Haruno. :heh:

So, we have Yukino pursuing Hachiman, who is influenced by his circumstances (grades), instead of Haruno influenced by the family wishes.(There is a caution to that conclusion - Hachiman did think about his future in vol 10.5 - so there is hope).

Now I'm not going to elaborate more (this post is so long anyway) on the Yukino's way of solving problems - The Volume 8's everyone for themselves (similar to what Hachiman did in Vol.4 in Rumi's case so they can show there real intentions), the vol. 9's two cases - the speech about being considerate all the time and how he should stop coming to the club (what Hachiman did in Vol. 2 to Yui for the same reasons) and the repeating of what Hachiman did in Vol. 6 - making the other SC have a common enemy. Finally, in Vol. 10 as the continuation of the previous example the Enclosed happiness strikes again - ergo Hikki got a follower. It's a great example of his rationalizations being accepted (making excuses is pointless) modified with her own need for understanding (Vol. 6 - Yukino asking about clearing up the mix-up after the Culture Festival name meeting).

However, it is not to say that all is bleak concerning the possible outcome.“Think, struggle, stumble, and worry. - Without those, it’s not genuine.” To achieve that the 10th volume had to end up like it did.


Wow that must have taken ages to write haha. Great post!

[vienx]

^ yep amazing post very detail..
thanks for your.detail post..
yeah i too realized how yukino went to cafe in instant when hachiman was mentioned.. and my hope for that is yukino has develop crush for hachiman..
since i cant be like you to read so deep.. my conclusion about something terrible than trust was reliance.. but i dismissed it.. since i think.that cant be

[csuree]

I don't think that Yukino rushed over the cafe because she had a crush on him.

Having a sister scheming as Haruno, and knowing how Haciman does things, no wonder she rushed there to make sure nothing will happen. It is not necessarily crush....I'd say precaution.
Remember that she just acknowledged him as an acquaintance, possibly a friend candidate (8man is still far from Yui's level - in terms of relationship)

@HereticMagus

Your latest post reminded me that I've never answered your question from two months ago. Sorry, I started writing it and got stuck. Watari makes me think how there is always more meaning hidden somewhere. :eyespin:



You've asked some good questions so I started writing about it and when I've finished I went :eek:. How it ended up this long? Is this an essay ? I'm becoming a Zaimokuza? :D
Still, I feel think I've missed a ton of points. So to make things less cluttered on the forum I placed everything under spoilers. Anyway, sorry again for the delay and the TL;DR :)

Yes, I absolutely agree. It's a relationship built around Hayama. That's the main difference. Still, there are additional issues within the group.

Iroha did confess to Hayato in Vol. 9 spurred by witnessing the scene on the rooftop. Later on, she did, in her own way, try to achieve that genuine. Like Hikki noticed she was showing real concern about him in ch. 4. Although her tone was cheerful, she was showing concern for Hayama in her own way.. Hayato did say that the she shows her real side to him (as he noticed that she is also not afraid to that towards Hachiman) in vol. 8.

On the other side, Miura acted not only on jealousy when attacking Yukino, but from the same reasons as Isshiki and only after she saw how the rumor affected Hayato. Furthermore, Miura did wanted to know what his feelings and thoughts were even if she ended up losing him. Is not that also searching for something genuine? She showed her weakness, her emotions to others including Yukino, her archfoe. Something that Iroha did before – making it obvious what she felt. So, both girls made efforts to get closer to Hayama and still are trying to do so. However, there is a reason why it doesn't work. But I'll talk later about Hayato.

Most likely, both Iroha and Miura are aware of each others feelings towards Hayato. Miura did saw the outcome of the confession at the not Disney Whatever© - It looked like Miura guessed at what was going on after seeing that. She coiled her hair with her fingers and let out a deep sigh. while from the ch.3 gossiping girls we could hear that “But I wonder what Miura-san thinks about it.”. If outsiders did notice that it would be pretty much unbelievable that Isshiki didn't do the same. The scene where Miura storms in the clubroom and Iroha retreats shows that she, most likely knew the reason (guessing wasn't difficult judging from the mail also). If I dare to speculate, they probably hold the other girl as someone who really cares about him which is enough for them to coexist.

Well, it's clear that both girls do care about and place him above themselves. The thing is they do it individually and not together. Trying to protect him. Now, what Hachiman and Yui do when they find out about the rumor? They decide not tell Yukino because she'll get angry. A pattern of behavior that they did in vol. 9 too. Well, they also try to insulate from outsiders someone they're concerned about. To protect someone close to them.

Now we come to a paradoxical situation. Those two are, most likely, more aware about one's another feelings than Yui and Yukino. Does Yukino know about Yui's sentiments towards Hachiman? I don't think so. Yui did had doubts after hearing a rumor that maybe there is some truth to it, but then she agreed about Yukinoshita being socially awkward and not possibly having a boyfriend. Still, her previous doubt indicated that she doesn't really know what's going on with Yukino's feelings. Yui does have an explanation for it. (from vol.6)
“You see, I’m going to wait for Yukinon. I think she’s trying her best to talk to us and get closer to us… That’s why I’m going to wait for her.”
Yui is waiting for her to open up. She is being considerate. Heck, in his thoughts about Yukino's past Hachiman asks the same question about Yukino's past. And then contrast that with both Iroha and Miura did. They both asked Yukino straight on.

Well, of course, things are a bit more complicated. The Hayato's group girls could ask Yukino, but at the same time they couldn't Hayato about his choice for obvious reasons (him shooting down the question before). Hachiman couldn't ask Yukino about the rumor with Hayama, and her past with him, but he tried to ask the latter about the course choice (and about Yumiko). After thinking a bit about it what is difference? How close they are. The closer they were the more difficult it become, because they have to take into account the other's side feelings, and also now there is awareness about the consequences of their actions.

Or what Shizuka nicely said (I agree with you, that talk was really important).
“In this case, what you should be thinking about is why you don’t want to hurt anyone. And the answer should immediately come to you. ───It’s because they’re dear to you that you don’t want to hurt them.”
“However, if it’s someone you don’t care about, then it won’t bother you. What’s necessary is awareness. It’s exactly because you care that you’ll feel as if you had hurt someone.”
“To cherish someone means to have the resolve to hurt them.”
Like before, Shizuka is like the choir in the Ancient Greek dramas explaining to the audience what's going to happen. :)
While Haruno is the prime example of having that resolve to hurt someone (vol. 6).
My moving lips were stopped in place by her soft fingers.
“I don’t like perceptive kids, okay?”
Suppose that the existence of an enemy is the simplest way to spur human growth.
Could it be that this person was acting so she could appear as the enemy? I found myself thinking that despite having no proof at all.
There are yet a lot of untold things between the members of the Service Club even with their current attempts. As I said it before, that's the reason why asking Yukino was what Hachiman took as something he must do, even though the information itself wasn't really that important. Besides being driven by Haruno (like always she is on drums with Hiratsuka on the bass :D) it is also a continuation of the before mentioned talk with Yui from Vol. 6.

Let's go back to Hayato.
The girls while not being really friendly to each other, made efforts towards him. He, on the other side, kept his distance, or at least, tried to do so. His solutions are in avoiding conflict. Hachiman noted that he tried not to notice the feelings of others “Or maybe he did notice, but was acting as if he didn’t, just like how he did with other things. Why he does try to avoid it? So nobody gets hurt. That is the consequence of his incapability of being confrontational. When he snapped on Orimoto he did confess that “…It’s the worst feeling ever, I don’t want to do it again.” (vol. 8 ch. 5). There is also, a strong sentiment of self-deprecation which harks back to what Yukino said to him in volume 4.
"You can't do anything, didn't the same thing happen before?" (from the summary on the 15th page of this forum).
To cut the long story short, Iroha and Miura want something more with Hayato. While they are not really friends with each other, there some tacit understanding, acknowledgement and consideration of the other party emotions. They are both waiting for him to open up. Hayato is the one that doesn't allow things to change, or better say he can't. On one side it is related to his solution – keeping everyone happy thus avoiding the underlying issue of him being pushed into the position of making a tough choice and hurting someone. That's why keeps his relationships superficial.
“To cherish someone means to have the resolve to hurt them.”




One line that should come to mind when looking at these two groups is mentioned in the Second Memorandum.
Similarities and commonalities were exactly why discrepancies became apparent. They became distinct. Being so identical meant those differences wouldn’t be forgiven.
It's something comparable to what Watari uses. Placing both groups into similar situations and relationships to make the differences stand out a bit more. Jokingly, the correct stance is to observe them both and then conclude that nobody really knows what they're doing. Which is how the world works. :D
To a certain extent, Hayato's group has changed too. Iroha and Miura (Yumiko was the one that said it explicitly in Vol.7) now are not really concerned with appearances but with a genuine strive to understand and help Hayama. That's what takes priority for them. Partly it has to do with how Hayato did change after a series of events - (Tobe's attempted confession, Orimoto's incident, Iroha's confession, his course choice, standing up to Haruno, apologizing to Yukino), but also with him setting the tone of the relations with both girls. To use the metaphor from Vol. 9 - he doesn't allow them to step over the line.

However, he is what maintains the things as they are, for the before mentioned reasons. That really is not about appearances, it's about him first and foremost. His actions set the tone to it. The rot that the SC was in after the Hachiman wrong way of thinking in 8th reflected that nicely, even though Yukino and Yui did try to come up with solutions (on the initiative of Yukinoshita in the disguise of having a competition – on one side it is her strive to prove herself and deal with her insecurities especially after Haruno flipping out, but the initial spark was to change the environment that causes Hachiman's auto-destructive solutions and most importantly, to walk alongside him and not to follow).

Nevertheless, the Sensei's talk shows what the danger of the other approach could lead to (hurting someone). Hachiman's musings how everything is temporary give also the feeling that he is aware of it all the time.

Concerning trust. In No Longer Human There is a character that blindly trusts the protagonist Yozo (or how his name is translated) and that's the source of the final downfall of him.
Now leaving that aside, there is an interesting fact. Hachiman did talk to Ebina and Tobe concerning Hayato.


Tobe:
“…You trust him, huh?” I blurted out.
Tobe stared at me in amazement. “Nah, say what, that ain’t it, I think? Well, ya know, Hayato-kun is a pretty reliable fellow or somethin’?”
Seemingly embarrassed from the word “trust”, Tobe’s face turned red from the cold or his shyness while trying to rephrase his words.

Ebina:
“I see. You trust them quite a bit, don’t you?”
“That’s not really it… I just think Hayato-kun’s going to choose the method where no one is hurt. Rather than trust, it’s more like a selfish wish of mine.” Ebina-san smiled, sticking out her tongue.
Furthermore, Hikki's (ch.7) thought illustrates that nicely: His pride and his kindness were also swarmed with demands.
To understand why they've refrained of using that term, the following passage from Vol.6 (when Hachiman went to his class to fill up a form and searched Yui for help) give further insights into what is meant by those words.
(BTW the whole 6th volume's Yukino's Student Festival involvement very nicely dealt with that theme.)

But I went out of my way to find Yuigahama and even relied on her.
I was allowing that.
It was really easy to rely on Yuigahama.
However.
That’s exactly why I needed to keep myself in check.
To blindly place unrestrained faith in someone is dependence.
I mustn’t rely on Yuigahama’s kindness. I mustn’t let Yuigahama’s good will spoil me.
On the slim chance that all of that weren’t due to her kindness or good will, but due to much more different emotions, then I had to be even more careful. Because that was simply taking advantage of a person’s weakness.

Let's look what Yui did say to Hachiman.

“Promise me,” said Yuigahama, and unable to make any sense of her sudden words, I tilted my head wordlessly in response. Yuigahama stood still, and gazed right back at me. “That you’ll help Yukinon whenever she’s in trouble.”
Speaking of which, on our way home from the fireworks display, we did talk about something like that.
Similar to that time, her forceful sincerity overwhelmed me. That’s why I answered, to my greatest ability, honestly and authentically.
“Only if it’s something I can do.”
“Okay, that’s a relief then.” Yuigahama said, and smiled.
You’re putting me on the spot by placing your unconditional trust in me.
In the end, Sagami did use the word trust. Her case was obvious. (she just gave the chairman's stamp of approval to Yukino).
Sagami didn’t show any signs of shyness. “Ehhhh? But isn’t it more efficient this way? I think what’s important are the things we do and not these stiff formalities, riiight? You know, trust or something like that?”

So, basically there are two poles of the problem.
One is when a person relies on an another for selfish goals. The most extreme case is Sagami and to a much lesser degree is Ebina. The person that they rely on is reliable and gets the job done. They're not more interested in anything else than benefits. There are no emotions involved. That is more obvious and more straightforward to understand.
The other case of spectrum is more interesting, having unrestrained faith, unconditional trust in someone. The motive is different. This is not calculated nor using someone - this is sincere affection towards someone. The closest one (still, not a perfect example because there is a bit of calculation involved) is Yui's case. The whole 6th volume ends up with an 8man observation how Yui waits Yukino like a faithful dog. Then, there is the metaphor of the dog collar gift in vol.3 or the Yukino's words: ...if an honest person like you were with us, Yuigahama-san, that would be a great help.. However, like usual, Watari did add a layer or two of complexity to Yui's affection. That is related to how she is good at handling things (from 6.5) “Aah, that’s true. When you get told ‘you’re good at handling things’, you feel like you’re cheating or something.”... Hoh, surprisingly it was bothering her or So this was the mysterious hardheadedness that whipped Yukinoshita, huh…? that explains how Yukino gives away to Yui's demands illustrated by the 8-man mental notice of the “slightly unhealthy” relation between those two. Yui's behavior does have a tinge of manipulation. On further look, that hesitation for a moment in the infirmary scene seems to have some of those shadows in the background. Maybe, Watari lets us know how that level of trust isn't really possible? :)

The first case ends up in exploiting the object of trust. The second one has a danger of hurting/using the trusting person by playing on its weaknesses (affection). That's why Hachiman had that jab at Hayato – did he use Miura because she was convenient? It's pretty understandable why he asked knowing how recognizes it as a possible danger in his relation to Yui (with all the exemptions).
Of course, the majority of cases would be between those two extremes. People manipulate and get manipulated, there is a mixture of honest feelings and selfish goals, superficial assumptions and a real strive to learn about others - all at the same time.

Tentatively, we could add a third case. That is what can be called "altruistic self-interest" to use that term from the 2nd Memorandum. Where a person from his selfish reasons enables others to trust him. The prime example is Hayato. Hachiman did also follow that pattern to a certain extent but his reasons were different. Him taking the fall was just part of the solution that worked - "getting things done efficiently". Hayato is just avoiding the issue that he can't really deal with - relationships breaking apart.
How we should interpret the question of trust? Hachiman's thoughts about Rumi in Vol. 9 gave a clear hint.

Basically it's the difference between following and walking alongside someone. Also that is the key for reading the reason why Yukino did that Student Council election.



I agree with what Excorsism noticed in his comments on that chapter 8th - who should we believe more?
Her sister and a childhood friend vs. someone who knows Yukino less than a year? Keep in mind that Hachiman doesn't know much what happened then, what's the history, why and in what ways he is comparing her past and her present self. A wish to change even an effort sometimes is not enough.
Vol 1. established some of the themes.

Something genuine
“It’s not as if I have ever wanted to be liked by people though.” She asserted and then added only a few more words. “Otherwise, if people genuinely did like me then that would have probably been a good thing.”

Changing yourself to save others
“You’re just running away from the problem. If you don’t change, you won’t move forward.”
….....
“…If that’s how it is, it wouldn’t solve any problems or save anybody.” As Yukinoshita spoke the word ‘save’, her expression was that of bloodcurdling anger. I inadvertently flinched. I was on the verge of apologizing by blurting out a ‘S-s-s-s-sorry!’ if needed be. Talking about salvation isn’t usually something a mere high school student would do. I just can’t understand what it is that is driving her this far.

Hints of Yukino's “You have something that I don’t”
“What do you mean when you say we’re of a different standard….I have my own opinion on being a loner. You could pretty much call me the king of the loners. On the other hand, it would be ridiculous to call someone like you a loner.”
“What’s this….bravely facing your circumstances even though you know it’s futile…” Yukinoshita appeared shocked and looked at me with an expression full of amazement.
….....
“If you had a friend who was generally popular with girls, what would you think?”
“That’s a stupid question. I don’t have any friends so I wouldn’t need to worry about such a thing.” I gave an exceedingly forceful reply. Like a man would. Even if I do say so myself, I was surprised at how I quickly cut in with a reply before she had even finish talking.
It seemed Yukinoshita was also surprised. She was at a loss for words with her mouth hanging open.
“…For a second, I actually thought you said something cool.”
Which of those are solved in the case of Yukino? That's a very tough question.

What important events happened in vol.10?

1. The family meeting. For starters, Yukino flatly rejected the Haruno's call, however, when she found that Hachiman was there she promptly came.
If we skip the before mentioned surprise about Yui and Hayato's remark towards Haruno the next important thing is the mother showing up. While Yukino doesn't follow Haruno's shadow anymore (I'll expand on that later), here it is clear that nothing much changed since the ending of the 4th volume. Yukino couldn't speak her mind, nor oppose and Haruno knows that. She used the mother as a trumping card in an argument with her before or as a test to see her reaction.
Some examples:

Vol. 3
“After all, Mother’s still mad over you living alone.”
The instant the word “Mother” came out, Yukinoshita’s entire body stiffened.
Vol. 4
“Come on, mother’s waiting.”
Yukinoshita, whose defiant attitude had been unshakeable until now, flinched in reaction.

Vol. 6
- “... I bet mom’s going to be really surprised after hearing about today… right?”
That smile, as if testing her, caused Yukinoshita’s expression to stiffen.
Vol. 8
“The way you just push things on to other people is exactly like mom.”
Those words were words Yukinoshita couldn’t respond to and all she could do was strongly clench her fist. Haruno moved her face closer to Yukinoshita and softly rubbed her nape.
“Well, that actually might just fit you Yukino. You don’t have to do anything after all. Someone will always do it for you, right?”
Vol. 10
Yukinoshita bit her lips, faced downwards, and peeked a glance in my direction. Uh, even if you look at me…
Haruno-san caught that. “Yukino-chan, that’s no good.”
Feelings of amusement shook in those cold eyes. With a vicious smile, Haruno-san spoke with a severe tone wearing a vicious smile and Yukinoshita’s shoulders jumped.

That pattern still repeats. Nothing changed there. The last two examples have also the additional meaning of "Someone will always do it for you" - her glance towards 8-man in the last one. That one is about following someone, I'll talk about it later on.

So, apart from the Yukino's clear unsolved issue with her mom, what this could be?
Let's look at the I wonder series of speeches from vol. 9 and 10.

Vol. 9
“Are you still thinking you want to be like that person?”
At some point during the Culture Festival, Yukinoshita mentioned she held admiration of her in the past.
“I wonder. I don’t think so right now, but… It’s just nee-san has something that I don’t.”
“It’s because I realized that there wasn’t anything that I could do that I started wanting to have something that you and nee-san didn’t have… I thought that if I had that, then I can save something.”
“And you want that?”
Yukinoshita quietly shook her head.
“No, I just thought “why didn’t I have that?” and became disappointed in myself who didn’t have it.”
…...
“Save what?”
Just what exactly was it that she needed and what was it that she could save? I wanted to fill in those lacking words so I asked her.
However, Yukinoshita wouldn’t tell me.
“…Who knows? What could it be, I wonder?”
Yukinoshita’s only response was a girlish smile as if she was testing me.

Vol. 10
“Ahh, that happened, didn’t it? And Yukino-chan would always cry afterwards.”
“Wait… Stop making up things.”
“But they’re not made up though. Right, Hayato?”
“Ahaha… I wonder.”
…...
Hayama’s expression was filled with surprise. Taken aback, he made a fixed gaze at Yukinoshita. “…You’ve changed a little.”
“I wonder about that. It’s just a lot of things are different from back then,” said Yukinoshita, and she moved her gaze towards Yuigahama. Then, she glanced at me.
….....
“I wonder if genuine things really exist…” Haruno-san looked overhead at the winter sky with suspended thick clouds and muttered. Where was her question that was tinged with a faint ring of loneliness directed at?

Here is also a recurring pattern. There are several connections.
All of those are related to the past events that Hachiman or we as readers don't know much about. There're only fragments of knowledge scattered around or as Hikki noticed in Vol.6:

What is it we should have to call it “knowing”? We didn’t understand that.
…...
Our statues were constructed from just our names and fragmentary impressions of each other, like that of mosaic, burying one fragment one by one until we were able to make up virtual images of each other.
And surely enough, those images probably weren’t even real.
Of course, there is a difference, now Hachiman wants to know. He instead of reading between the lines for a hidden meaning (a thing that brought him to a wrong conclusion about Yukino's intentions in Vol 8) now tries to grasp the underlying emotions. Still, the gaps in knowledge are a serious obstacle to really understand others.

The next one is related to the previous point – tacit understanding between people who have history together. In Hachiman's case in Vol. 10 the analogy would be with Komachi having the exams blues and thus getting reminded about her hidden side - “Her sulking brought back memories of when she was a little kid.“ Or their reconciliation talk after the fight they've had in Vol.8. In Yukino's case, that exists between her, Hayato and Haruno.

The third would be testing someone's understanding of the underlying motives. Yukino does it clearly in Vol.9 towards Hachiman and in the Vol. 10 with Hayato it is implied.

The final one would be the expression of self doubt and realization that (connected to the previous point) the problem is not yet solved. The first and the last one quotes have clear signs of it. To put it simply, the thinking that Hikki had after the talk with Sensei (in vol.9) about the prime reason for his actions should be the cause. The fact that she followed Haruno and now most likely Hachiman (we could add Yui too) is just a consequence of a deeper problem (powerlessness, lacking something). We could add to it those before mentioned thoughts about walking with someone instead of following.
She said to 8-man that You have something that I don’t. That sense of her own deficiency is the problem, especially compared to Haruno. Lacking charm, being socially awkward. “It’s because I can’t deal with people the way you and Yuigahama can.” (Vol.9). Hachiman also noticed from the beginning that she is very competitive and a sore loser. By own Yukino's words “I’m not particularly fond of standing in front of others.”, “I am rather fond of standing over others, however…” (Vol.4).
Clumsishita-san Clumsinon™ (by Hachiman) is idealistic, honest and awkward, terrible at explaining things, has "sparkling communication skills", with a bad sense of direction (“So why were you walking towards a wall?”), and most importantly, a very sweet girl even though her appearance of being cold and unapproachable is a defensive barrier from the inferiority and jealousy of others that ends up isolating her. That's what's mentioned from the start in vol. 1, and shows up from time to time (there is in vol. 5 a comparison between her (retribution) and Saki (intimidation) and Haruno's talk, or in the latest in Vol.10 with Muira – You are not the first speech). And yet from the start she yearned for genuine affection. She doesn't lie, but keeps silent about things. She also, over time, constructed an image of Hachiman based upon assumptions -“…So there’re things you don’t understand too.” and “No… I was just thinking that you had all this in mind already as well.” (Vol.9)

Apart from the "I wonder" talks, some other ones could be added to explain further what I meant.

Yukino herself did repeat the Hachiman's words to Hayato (from Vol.7) in her speech “...For it to be destroyed from just that only means that’s what it ultimately came down to… No?”(Vol.9)

Yukino's : "It’s not something I’m concerned with at this point… It’s enough that the people I’m close to understand, so it’s not a problem." (Vol.10)

In the end, these speeches are converging to one point. It's that "Something genuine" that both Yukino and Hachiman wanted (and Yui does also).
The best definition of it comes from Hachiman's thoughts at end of the 8th book.
Even if you didn’t say anything, it would reach; even if you didn’t do anything, it’d be understandable; even if anything happened, it wouldn’t break.
That illusion that was far from reality and foolish, yet beautiful.

What she wanted to have from the beginning. Her doubt: “What in the world is that genuine thing that you asked for?” could be interpreted from the Hikki's thoughts:
But being unable to completely obtain it, I started to think it didn’t exist.

Let's add to that one of the ending thoughts of our Genuine in Development protagonist. Something genuine. That’s to say, the truth, or perhaps sincerity. Just exactly which of them you could call genuine, I still had yet to understand. In vein of the sincerity and truth let's make an example happened after the Rooftop scene in the previous book.
8-man told a lie how Komachi likes Pan-san (Yukino's weak point) to convince her going to Destinyland with them.(He used Komachi as an excuse to help Iroha before). It's not much but the similarity is striking.

Now we come to the second important event.
2. The rumor. Those Yukino's words about people close understanding are interesting. Like I mentioned before, both Hikki and Yui got doubts about it (albeit Hachiman did refuse it but only on an emotional level and voicing rationalizations) and decided to keep it from Yukino (being considerate of her). BTW, one of the reasons why he felt compelled to talk to Yukino was that part of Sensei's talk - how someday someone will show up that understands her.
Well, there is an another layer to the rumor. Remember the end of the marathon talk between Hachiman and Hayato.

“Are you bothered by the rumor?”
“Huh? No, that’s not really it… It’s just, well, you know, that… Kind of.”
When I fretted over how to explain it, Hayama raised his voice and laughed. Despite running with such a beautiful form, his upper body was shaking bit by bit and then swaying.
“…What’s so funny?” I asked.
Hayama wiped his eyes forcibly. “Nothing, sorry. You don’t need to worry about it. I’ll make sure it goes away.”
“Ahh, if you can, that’d help me a lot. I can’t stand how tense the club is right now.”
It's very interesting.
Hachiman couldn't do anything, even though it strained the relationships in the Club. It's also interesting how he didn't notice relying on Hayama, nor how that is, at least superficially, similar to what happened in Vol. 7. Furthermore, Hayama did, similarly to Hikki, solve something incompletely, in the only way he could do it by fulfilling everyone's expectations, including Hachiman's. In a way, Vol. 10 is about some Hayama's redemption after all. Not to mention how it reminds about someone else who couldn't do anything about it?
One plus point for the nothing changed team. :)

After all of this - we come to the meat and potatoes of this long assed post. :eyespin:
Yukino following.
Does she still follows? Yes. Is she aware of it? Maybe. Her's "I wonder about that" answer to Hayato seems to hint some realization that she still has a long way to go.

The most obvious example is her happy childlike face after everyone is going to be together for now in the infirmary scene (vol. 10). Remember that Yukino wanted to go a similar Uni as Haruno (a thing that Haruno herself didn't want - she wanted to go to a better school vol. 5). Now she switched to a liberal curse that both Hachiman and Yui would go. Even if that choice is not important in her case, it tell us about her motivation. And that's funny for two reasons.

1) Yukino is not really chasing her own dream and finding out what she wants to do (the caveat is that Exor did mention something about Yukino saying something more in 10.5 so that could change)

2) Hachiman didn't really make a choice he was just going with the flow of his loopsided grades. Yui is the faithful dog. One of the themes in Vol.10 is how choice is not really a choice after all and, in the end, it's more about everything else. To the endless joy of Haruno. :heh:

So, we have Yukino pursuing Hachiman, who is influenced by his circumstances (grades), instead of Haruno influenced by the family wishes.(There is a caution to that conclusion - Hachiman did think about his future in vol 10.5 - so there is hope).

Now I'm not going to elaborate more (this post is so long anyway) on the Yukino's way of solving problems - The Volume 8's everyone for themselves (similar to what Hachiman did in Vol.4 in Rumi's case so they can show there real intentions), the vol. 9's two cases - the speech about being considerate all the time and how he should stop coming to the club (what Hachiman did in Vol. 2 to Yui for the same reasons) and the repeating of what Hachiman did in Vol. 6 - making the other SC have a common enemy. Finally, in Vol. 10 as the continuation of the previous example the Enclosed happiness strikes again - ergo Hikki got a follower. It's a great example of his rationalizations being accepted (making excuses is pointless) modified with her own need for understanding (Vol. 6 - Yukino asking about clearing up the mix-up after the Culture Festival name meeting).

However, it is not to say that all is bleak concerning the possible outcome.“Think, struggle, stumble, and worry. - Without those, it’s not genuine.” To achieve that the 10th volume had to end up like it did.




I will read and re-read that long post and will write my own perspective about the entire series.

[vienx]

well that was my very own wishful thinking..

[Armando99]

well that was my very own wishful thinking..

You weren't the only one.

I seriously thought that that was the main reason. There might have been others but they were an afterthought. imo

[Okashira]

I don't think that Yukino rushed over the cafe because she had a crush on him.

Having a sister scheming as Haruno, and knowing how Haciman does things, no wonder she rushed there to make sure nothing will happen. It is not necessarily crush....I'd say precaution.


The 'basis' of her reaction has more to do with manners; Yukino is extremely polite and proper (even when calling him rotten fish :heh: ); that situation was basically her own carelessness causing someone else discomfort, and that's a huge no in the japanese "formal code" so to speak, which she is know to follow. (I can't use "el Manual de Carreño" reference to english speakers, so bothersome. Naturally I don't know the equivalent for other languages).

In other words, the core of her actions was basic courtesy; of course we can argue that there it was more underneath based on other stuff (like Yukinon trying to pres F1 in the hikkiboard), but that's sand for another sack.

[vienx]

^ hmm.. so in simple it just courtesy ?
since i dont know the code used there.. if it was me and i dont even.bother him.. i wouldnt come..

so glad there is another comrade

[lelouch12]

somehow after rewatching ep 7 of inou-battle gave me goosebumps on how hayami will do the scenes leading to the "Genuine thing".

[vienx]

since i.havent watch inou..
i wanna ask that would be ?

[Shadow5YA]

By the way, when did Komachi get Haruno's phone number anyway?

I'm pretty sure she isn't friends with her like she is with Yukino.

[Tormenk]

During the Cultural Festival post-party event.


“Actually, how do you know Komachi’s phone number?”

“You know, after the culture festival, I met her for a little bit, remember? We exchanged our numbers then.”

So that was when… That should’ve been the first time they ever talked to each other but apparently they exchanged numbers at that exact moment. Once again, my little sister’s range of relationships expanded even farther. Wait, didn’t this mean she had more contacts than I did?

[Cinnamon]

During the Cultural Festival post-party event.

You can find it on the Drama CD included with Volume 3. There's a subbed version on Youtube.

[Heat066]

'Sup guys, skimming twitter found this review of ep. 4.

Really good read, imo.

https://geekorner.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/oregairu-season-2-episode-4-being-understood-is-a-fearful-thing/

[Tormenk]

'Sup guys, skimming twitter found this review of ep. 4.

Really good read, imo.

https://geekorner.wordpress.com/2015/04/24/oregairu-season-2-episode-4-being-understood-is-a-fearful-thing/

lijenstina's epic anaylsis post and this review is just one big reason why I'm so fond of this series. Different aspects and layers to the story up the wazoo and new insight everytime from reading the varied takes to the events of Oregairu. :eyespin:

[YumeNoMonogatari]

lijenstina's epic anaylsis post and this review is just one big reason why I'm so fond of this series. Different aspects and layers to the story up the wazoo and new insight everytime from reading the varied takes to the events of Oregairu. :eyespin:

Yup, all those analysis are really delightful. I'm kinda ashamed to admit it but without all these "in-depth" reviews and thoughts, I think I'd be lost those layers (especially with Hayato's clique, since I always focus on the Volunteer club) :p
And when I thought that I got the gist of it, volume 10 came... but that also means it's going to get more interesting.

Here is the preview for ep. 5 (http://www.tbs.co.jp/anime/oregairu/story/index-j.html)

[megaroad1]

The funny thing is that as much as Oregairu is really getting a lot of quality discussion/reviews/debate going on, it also has a broad viewership that are stuck in the "Hachiman is Batman, the misunderstood hero and Yukinon is a b**ch who doesn't appreciate his greatness" optic. I wonder what they will think a couple of episodes from now when Hachiman changes his tune.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

The funny thing is that as much as Oregairu is really getting a lot of quality discussion/reviews/debate going on, it also has a broad viewership that are stuck in the "Hachiman is Batman, the misunderstood hero and Yukinon is a b**ch who doesn't appreciate his greatness" optic. I wonder what they will think a couple of episodes from now when Hachiman changes his tune.

In the worst case they'll drop it. Just like some people dropped it just because the art style changed :frustrated:

[HereticMagus]

This does not happen in a family of their stature.Why? Because in high stature families, parental love and maternal instincts are automatically suppressed?

But the current developments show us that while she is teasing her, she is doing it to push her forward, to challenge herself and do the best she can do with her abilities and not waste them sitting in a club reading all day.

I don't think Haruno is trying to get her out of the club room so much as she is trying to get her out of her proverbial shell. In that sense, spending time in the club room in itself is a step forward towards her goal.

But my point is, Haruno might be trying to do this so her own sacrifice isn't wasted in the making of an asocial and supercilious person. All this is greatly speculation, but I don't think its likely that we'll end with Yukino's parents being totally unfair and dominating people. There will be some justifications and good intentions behind even their attitude towards Yukino, or so I think at least.
Still less complicatedUh-oh, Occam's Razor to a fan theory. I'm flattered.

@lijenstina; Damn. Now I'm even more flattered. In fact, I'm very much fascinated by your analysis and if possible, I'll one day take the time to comment on each of those, I read the whole thing despite your tl'dr warning. It's kind of sad that I'm in the middle of my entrance classes.

[vienx]

since i am newbie.. i still wondering about this batman thing mentioned in wikia.. i only know little of batman.. trying to read a wikia.. too many history and timeline @.@ but i dont think batman similar to hachiman.. because my impression of batman was likeable hero.. btw i dont read marvel or dc comic i want to read civil war but i think too many branch..

[csuree]

You really need to see the "dark knight" then; the one with Christian Bale and Heath Ledger,
or you can find it on youtube the ending 5-10 minutes..
Basically that is why they compare Hachiman to batman
here is a link to a video... low quality but the message is clear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TibA0sQQZw8

[dark44]

just finished volume 10 and i think
hayama confesed to haruna thats explain why yukino didnt got chosen
haruna supported hayama yukino pair thats why now she find them boring cause they didnt got toghether
maybe yukino used to have crush on hayama cause no girl can resist him
maybe haruna obssesed with yukino cause she feeling guilty cause hayma choose her

[Echodrive]

It's strange because I've always thought that Hachiman was always petty throughout the series, the whole nice girls thing was cool as is every monologue he says but it sounds soo distasteful to me. As a person who was ridiculed by countless girls (trust me) I think I know how he feels and thought the same him for a long period of time, girls can be cruel but that's life, I'm glad he's changing for the better and I hope all these fanboys do as well.

[Shidou]

just finished volume 10 and i think
hayama confesed to haruna thats explain why yukino didnt got chosen
haruna supported hayama yukino pair thats why now she find them boring cause they didnt got toghether
maybe yukino used to have crush on hayama cause no girl can resist him
maybe haruna obssesed with yukino cause she feeling guilty cause hayma choose her



So how was haruno reaction ? I think she is not interested by him ? And how was hayama reaction ?

[dark44]

So how was haruno reaction ? I think she is not interested by him ? And how was hayama reaction ?

i am just speculating from what i read until now
there is no pov except Hachiman i wonder if the author well make any pov of other characters then we well know how other characters feel but that well make it like any other light novel
told the novel from single pov make it unique

[YumeNoMonogatari]

I wonder if will see Hachiman's and Komachi's mother this season. I don't remember if she had an appearance in vol. 7-8-9

[Heat066]

Heyo guys, good news, seems like a new group has picked Oregairu Monologue's manga, they released the 10th chapter.

[vienx]

You really need to see the "dark knight" then; the one with Christian Bale and Heath Ledger,
or you can find it on youtube the ending 5-10 minutes..
Basically that is why they compare Hachiman to batman
here is a link to a video... low quality but the message is clear:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TibA0sQQZw8

thanks gonna looks for it at lunch later


just finished volume 10 and i think
hayama confesed to haruna thats explain why yukino didnt got chosen
haruna supported hayama yukino pair thats why now she find them boring cause they didnt got toghether
maybe yukino used to have crush on hayama cause no girl can resist him
maybe haruna obssesed with yukino cause she feeling guilty cause hayma choose her

hmm what part that make you thinks he confessed to haruno ?
since sometimes i read by skipping maybe i missed it,,

[Armando99]

thanks gonna looks for it at lunch later




hmm what part that make you thinks he confessed to haruno ?
since sometimes i read by skipping maybe i missed it,,

That makes two of us because I don't remember reading about it too.

[Master Assassin]

Heyo guys, good news, seems like a new group has picked Oregairu Monologue's manga, they released the 10th chapter.

And at a good time as well. It seems that the mangaka has done some strips with lots of ship-teasing for everyone (including Saki and Rumi). I don't know if they're part of the manga or something done in their free time (aka fanart). But damn those strips are cute as hell. Fluff all around.

[dark44]

thanks gonna looks for it at lunch later




hmm what part that make you thinks he confessed to haruno ?
since sometimes i read by skipping maybe i missed it,,

we know that he confessed to some one
if she was yukinon so why haruna sayed she wasnt choosen
and we know that he admire and chase after haruna
and yukinon told him to not chase after some one again and she well not chase herself too implied that one is haruna

[IndexOfIdeas]

Waiting for exorcism sama to bring forth chapter 3 of 10.5

[Tormenk]

I wonder if Watari wrote Chapter 3's length in mind with the overt message of that chapter in mind. 94 pages would make it undoubtedly the looongest chapter in the novels. Nice bit of development for the girls but I would have like to see Yui's admission in the novels proper instead of in a .5 volume. Hikki sandwich didn't quite happen in the end but it's made up for with the Yukinon sandwich at the start.

[nooneagain]

I'm new to the series but want to know: is yukinoshita genuinely concerned about 8man? that's why she wanted him to change?

[SomeChineseGuy]

I'm new to the series but want to know: is yukinoshita genuinely concerned about 8man? that's why she wanted him to change?

Well... Do unconcerned people want you to change like that?

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Here's a little something I drew. It's been a while since I drew, I forgot how complicated it could be to draw even the simple things.

http://i.imgur.com/iGMByTD.jpg

[SomeChineseGuy]

Here's a little something I drew. It's been a while since I drew, I forgot how complicated it could be to draw even the simple things.

http://i.imgur.com/iGMByTD.jpg

I like it.

*glances at his unused tablet. Weeps quietly*

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Found some other great art
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDeAJAkUMAAjQA5.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CCJxviBUEAAUhjS.jpg
Source (https://twitter.com/taikonotuki13/media)


http://i.imgur.com/qwSntAY.gif
Source (https://twitter.com/IoNaomichi/status/591384752050941952)

http://i.imgur.com/ymro0i6.png:joke:

[SomeChineseGuy]

http://i.imgur.com/qwSntAY.gif
Source (https://twitter.com/IoNaomichi/status/591384752050941952)


Wonder why no one made a Platinum Disco reference. I mean, she'd be a perfect Tsukihi. Seriously.

[Heat066]

Here's a little something I drew. It's been a while since I drew, I forgot how complicated it could be to draw even the simple things.

http://i.imgur.com/iGMByTD.jpg

Nice.

And I really get you, I really love drawing, but in the end I take it as a hobby, I don't really strive to improve, orz.

[SoloPanda]

Here's a little something I drew. It's been a while since I drew, I forgot how complicated it could be to draw even the simple things.

http://i.imgur.com/iGMByTD.jpg

It's cute but I can't help but imagine a side view of that where she's helping him get something in his eye and one of the other girls (Yukino in my case) standing behind her enraged because of the original view

[Armando99]

Perception is reality, as the saying goes!

[Corvo269]

http://i.imgur.com/ymro0i6.png:joke:

I'm completely okay with this ending though

[RioFoxx]

I wonder if Watari wrote Chapter 3's length in mind with the overt message of that chapter in mind. 94 pages would make it undoubtedly the looongest chapter in the novels. Nice bit of development for the girls but I would have like to see Yui's admission in the novels proper instead of in a .5 volume. Hikki sandwich didn't quite happen in the end but it's made up for with the Yukinon sandwich at the start.

Did you...finish 10.5 or something?

[theshade1]

I wonder if Watari wrote Chapter 3's length in mind with the overt message of that chapter in mind. 94 pages would make it undoubtedly the looongest chapter in the novels. Nice bit of development for the girls but I would have like to see Yui's admission in the novels proper instead of in a .5 volume. Hikki sandwich didn't quite happen in the end but it's made up for with the Yukinon sandwich at the start.

Sandwiched? Like is she stuck in the middle of two people in a packed place or something?? and why would 8man be in that situation??

[Tormenk]

Did you...finish 10.5 or something?

Yeah. Just thought it better to leave out the specifics since this is a chapter that's best read for the intended comedic effect. Watari went to town here, probably to make up for the gloom and doom in vol 8 and most of vol 9.

Chapter 4 of 10.5 is a sweet short story with Hikki spending time with Komachi.

[vienx]

so chap3 dedicated for yui ??

[Cinnamon]

so chap3 dedicated for yui ??

It's dedicated to all of them, Hikki, Yui, Yukino and Iroha. All characters get some development, but for me, the most interesting one was Yui's.

Also, that sandwich can grind mountains xD His monologues are hilarious.

[vienx]

uhh.. so.sad i cant read japanesee T.T

[YumeNoMonogatari]

uhh.. so.sad i cant read japanesee T.T

You're not alone to feel this pain T_T I'm trying to learn it, though. I have vol 1-4 of Oregairu on my shelf and I can only understand 5% of what I'm reading :p

I don't remember seeing this in the novels. But this is definitely Ponkan 8's art :
http://i.imgur.com/A0AUac1.jpg

[vienx]

yep very likely..
usually where do you browse for pic.. you profile pic kinda nice

i regret i dont learn seriously in highschool..
u have hardcopy ?

[SoloPanda]

You're not alone to feel this pain T_T I'm trying to learn it, though. I have vol 1-4 of Oregairu on my shelf and I can only understand 5% of what I'm reading :p

I don't remember seeing this in the novels. But this is definitely Ponkan 8's art :
http://i.imgur.com/A0AUac1.jpg

And that is the reason H-man doesn't need a wife... or even a girlfriend for that matter :D

little sister specs:

Smart
Cute
Cooks
Cleans
Loves Onii-chan the most
#1 in Waifu skills contest ... oh wait that was sensei -_-

[eceso]

I'm completely okay with this ending though
I've been a firm advocate of Hiratsuka x 8man so im def ok with it too lol

[vienx]

i am greedy person..
i ship : yukino, iroha, haruno, hiratsuka
too few oregairu fanfic.. T^T
so far there are yukino, yui, iroha
1 for haruno by somechineseguy but only oneshot
no hiratsuka

[YumeNoMonogatari]

I'll try to draw something else, this time involving Iroha-chan. It might take a while, though.

I wonder if we will see Keiko and Hachiman's mom this season.

[nooneagain]

I'll try to draw something else, this time involving Iroha-chan. It might take a while, though.

I wonder if we will see Keiko and Hachiman's mom this season.

....how about sensei and 8man? hehehe.

[Idealist 99]

just finished volume 10 and i think
hayama confesed to haruna thats explain why yukino didnt got chosen
haruna supported hayama yukino pair thats why now she find them boring cause they didnt got toghether
maybe yukino used to have crush on hayama cause no girl can resist him
maybe haruna obssesed with yukino cause she feeling guilty cause hayma choose her

As far as I know , Hayama likes a girl who's name start with ''Yu'' ! Which could be Yukino , Yui or Yumiko .
According to VN -
Yukino's 1st love was Haruno's fiance !!!
May be , Its not a game thing ! It might be canon in actual novel .
After all , Watari was involve in the game !
So , Haruno might feel guilty about being engage to her 1st love !

[Cinnamon]

As far as I know , Hayama likes a girl who's name start with ''Yu'' ! Which could be Yukino , Yui or Yumiko .
According to VN -
Yukino's 1st love was Haruno's fiance !!!
May be , Its not a game thing ! It might be canon in actual novel .
After all , Watari was involve in the game !
So , Haruno might feel guilty about being engage to her 1st love !

Source for that VN thing? Haven't encountered it when I played the game, even wrote a summary of it somewhere in this thread.

[IndexOfIdeas]

Cinnamon point me out to your vn summary

[Cinnamon]

Cinnamon point me out to your vn summary

You can search for them, though the only detailed one is Yukino route., mostly because it was one of the first before I got tired of writing xD

Yukinoshita route is here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4840623&postcount=1210)

Now that you mentioned it, I never did make the summary for Yui route (@_,_@)

[IndexOfIdeas]

Thx for the summary

[YumeNoMonogatari]

....how about sensei and 8man? hehehe.

Can't draw it right now so I hope this is enough :


http://i.imgur.com/Ok939Zg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2gM6gPx.jpg

[nooneagain]

Can't draw it right now so I hope this is enough :


http://i.imgur.com/Ok939Zg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/2gM6gPx.jpg


Thanks a bunch! nice to see your yui x 8man drawing(I hope I'll see your senseix8man drawing later on.........if you don't mind.... XD ).

[Heat066]

Saw this on Pixiv. I just had to.

http://i60.tinypic.com/wrghw7.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2rffucn.jpg

[HereticMagus]

Saw this on Pixiv. I just had to.

http://i60.tinypic.com/wrghw7.jpg
http://i59.tinypic.com/2rffucn.jpg

If only I could read japanese, if only...:upset::upset::upset:

[csuree]

how can you see it???.. even nyaa does not have it out yet.... I envy you

[Heat066]

how can you see it???.. even nyaa does not have it out yet.... I envy you

You'll get your answer on 4chan...

[YumeNoMonogatari]

So there is a Komachi route!?
http://i.imgur.com/vSUQZw5.jpg

[csuree]

ohh there was another minor change in op....same place as the last one xD

went to 4chan but no answer there....

instead i read some stupidities...and lol'd

[Guy Incognito]

So there is a Komachi route!?
http://i.imgur.com/vSUQZw5.jpgkinda, its at the end and its very short its more like you failed to get a main route end kinda like Hiratsuka's route.

foot note: what I learn in Yukinoshita's route is to never say anything to her while in a heart events or she will get pissed:heh:

[lijenstina]

Speaking of Komachi.

http://i.imgur.com/d2tYTlM.jpg

[frontmoon]

So there is a Komachi route!?
http://i.imgur.com/vSUQZw5.jpg

here the link : https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkMoAISCQq9zaTiXviOtNQ

[YumeNoMonogatari]

^ Thank you!

Speaking of Komachi again :

http://i.imgur.com/Q6O1JQQ.jpg

[Cinnamon]

^ Thank you!

Speaking of Komachi again :

http://i.imgur.com/Q6O1JQQ.jpg

That one deserves 80000 point!

[Armando99]

Now if only some kind soul will tl what they are saying.

[HereticMagus]

Now if only some kind soul will tl what they are saying.

Seconded :upset::upset::upset:

[vienx]

are the VN version translated ?

[Cinnamon]

are the VN version translated ?

Only the beginning of the common route. Ziddy's doing it through Youtube (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL14fQGZkT2OgwuIAeLGykkWy1YKZUmvNO).

[IndexOfIdeas]

I am goint to rant read on your o riskARE YOU READY someone pls full feed meof whats happening in chapter 3 of 10.3 my sanity cant keep up because of that illustration of 8man sweating waterfall T_T sry for showing my unsightly side

[vienx]

^ i too eager too read but we must be patient..
oregairu really piqued my interest ..
i keep reloading this page.. kyakka.. and fanfic..
this page for spoiler
kyakka for chapter 3.. btw i keep reading chap 2.. really nice..
fanfic.. for update

[HappilyBelated]

At this point I'm just hoping feel adapts some of the side material (maybe the Christmas party?).

[endarion88]

i didn't really get what yunino wanted hachiman to understand

[csuree]

that maybe she wanted to become stu-co president and 8 man intervened and prevented that

[SuitUp]

Yukinon though their relationship was based on something a little deeper than the mere title of the service club, and that they could possibly make the student council their new club... It's just that Hikki doesn't understand Yukinon like she believed he did, and that's what causes the rift in vol 9

[endarion88]

oh i tought in vol 9 things patched up a bit but then it gets even worse?

[Heat066]

Dunno if you guys knew but for some reason...

Spyro/Excor was banned from this forum. :confused:

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Just dropping by to leave two gifs
http://i.imgur.com/9aY7Xgi.gif
http://i.imgur.com/AFXABvY.gif

i didn't really get what yunino wanted hachiman to understand

Just as csuree and SuitUp said, Yukino probably thought that her becoming the StuCo wouldn't change their relationship and that they're more than just fellow club members.
Maybe she wanted to achieve something similar to what Megu☆rin was talking about at the end of the episode.

Dunno if you guys knew but for some reason...

Spyro/Excor was banned from this forum. :confused:

Wait, what? Why? How?

[Cinnamon]

That's sad to hear. Maybe they don't like people translating the novels here, seems they have been stricter with that recently.

And yes, it's worth reading chapter 3 for yourself once it available in some way.

EDIT:
@YumeNoMonogatari
Yes, in addition to that they both(Yukino and 8man) thought they knew each other more than they do. They then wake up from this illusion at that point. Yukino, who always believed 8man in some way always knew what she had in mind, 8man who thought he knew her motivations more than anyone. They no longer have this "trust" between them anymore.

[SuitUp]

Excor banned? What for? Really I can't see a reason for it

[Okashira]

Excor banned? What for? Really I can't see a reason for it

Speaking of anime in novel threads and vice versa is discouraged; specially with not covered content, I can only think of that.

[endarion88]

Dunno if you guys knew but for some reason...

Spyro/Excor was banned from this forum. :confused:

the heck??? why?

[cyberbeing]

Excor banned? What for? Really I can't see a reason for itSpeaking of anime in novel threads and vice versa is discouraged; specially with not covered content, I can only think of that.

It wasn't that. He and another member received a ban for what was essentially a Rule 1.2 violation in the anime thread. Likely only temporary, but unfortunately it was justified, so he could be gone for a week because of it.

[Excorsism]

It wasn't that. He and another member received a ban for what was essentially a Rule 1.2 violation in the anime thread. Likely only temporary, but unfortunately it was justified, so he could be gone for a week because of it.

A sign that I should eject myself from the fanbase. Eagerly looking forward to volume 11's release in June though.

In the meantime, I will delightfully indulge in Xenoblade... whenever it gets to my door.

[Okashira]

Eagerly looking forward to volume 11's release in June though.


Are we still keeping a healthy counter of how many times Yukinon and Hikki find themelves locked, lost in each other gazes, and how Irohasu's "it's just not possible" keeps evolving? :heh:

(Thinking about it, YuiYui needs to increase the quality of the work she does) :heh:

[Heat066]

A sign that I should eject myself from the fanbase. Eagerly looking forward to volume 11's release in June though.

In the meantime, I will delightfully indulge in Xenoblade... whenever it gets to my door.

Good to see you back. :cool:

I guess too much of 4chan can take it's toll on the mind. Right now, it's best to stay away from them, they're too cancerous right now.

I don't even want to imagine them after the "genuine speech". :uhoh:

[RioFoxx]

A sign that I should eject myself from the fanbase. Eagerly looking forward to volume 11's release in June though.

In the meantime, I will delightfully indulge in Xenoblade... whenever it gets to my door.

Please don't scare me, lol. And oh, you Wii U? Make sure to quip about how it is!

[YumeNoMonogatari]

So I've just read the Memorandums again, just to realize that I still have no idea whose memorandum is whose :eyespin:

I my wild guess is that :
1st = Hachiman
2nd = Hayama
3rd = Haruno

I highly doubt that they all belong to one person but we can't tell for sure.

[vienx]

well the more you read thw more tangled you are..
since the writing seem really have depth meaning

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Chapter 3 is here :D
Thank you Excor, we love you!

[eceso]

Nice moments with Yui and Yukino there and lol at those totsuka pictures

A lot of komachi points in that last chapter

[YumeNoMonogatari]

One of the best part

Isshiki slid her fingers across the screen. For every picture, they’d engage in a girly conversation, “That’s soo cute!” “This is so nice, right?” and “Can you move back to that photo just now? Yes, the one with the cat sundries.”

I listened to the three’s energetic exchange while sitting in my seat that was apart from them. I absentmindedly played with my phone in the meantime.

And suddenly, their chatter stopped.

Having found that odd, I looked at the three of them. Isshiki had an “oops” face. As for Yuigahama and Yukinoshita, they looked at me in fixation.

“Huh, what…?”

“Oh, um, ahaha, it’s like, I-I thought it’d be nice if I tried going there, too…”

When I asked, Yuigahama made a reluctant laugh. Next to her, Yukinoshita was wearing an amiable smile.

“…It seems like you enjoyed yourself quite a bit in this picture, didn’t you?”

Isn’t the room kind of cold? So cold! I wonder if they can fix the heater any faster…?

[vienx]

i wonder about yukino behaviour.. seem there is nothing wrong with hikigaya hanging out right ? maybe this was caused by yukino feeling(jealousy) << my hope

i like the part when hikigaya bend after being threatened..
one who wouldnot bend even when all campus hate him.. yield over piece of paper XD

[Heat066]

Ahh...

this volume...so good for the heart. :D

[IndexOfIdeas]

Ah spyro-sama with this you have save my sanity i can now survive till volume 11 comes. Thank u

[SuitUp]

Irohasu is so sly, showing them both girls the picture with Hikki, and keeping the receipts for blackmail :heh: :heh:

[Shadow5YA]

Iroha has a better hold on Hachiman than Yukino or Yui do :heh:

[csuree]

ohhh.. chapter 3 is out???... you saved my long week-end from being boring....Thank you

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Some important parts :

“…I’m sorry, too. I should’ve checked on your progress when I had the chance. I should’ve known that even you can make mistakes.”
“That’s certainly part of it, but… it essentially means that it was my miscalculation as well.”
“In the end, I’m the one who’s unable to do anything the most”

“I think… I really am unfair… It’s because I can never stop you or even help you. And also… for a bunch of other things.”

“Memories are important, don’t you think?”

“It’s not a big deal. I’m always the one selfishly doing it. You’re not at fault for stopping me. If anything, the ones who make inconsiderate promises are at fault… That’s why, uh… I’ll see what I can do.”

[HazeOfMisery]

I've been away from this forum for awhile now but i have returned, living in total despair.

Before i left, i was a Yukino shipper, comforted by the fact that Yukino winning is the most likely scenario.

And then i became a Black Lace Saki shipper. The best girl, who will never win.

Oh, Watari, why are thy so cruel?

[ShirayukiX]

So I've just read the Memorandums again, just to realize that I still have no idea whose memorandum is whose :eyespin:

I my wild guess is that :
1st = Hachiman
2nd = Hayama
3rd = Haruno

I highly doubt that they all belong to one person but we can't tell for sure.
I think the memorandums pertain to all three of them. Their ambiguous because each one can relate to 8man, Hayama, or Haruno. I don't know if they ARE supposed to be someone's monologue or just explain the problems that are happening in the series so far.

[csuree]

I am starting to hate Isshiki right now. On here date she was cute, but now dumping the newspaper work onto them irritates me.

If it were me there I would send the little ojou-sama back to her office to do her job properly. I would not care that I forced her into being stu-co prez. She accepted it, right? Then deal with it.
She is getting annoying by the minute.

Also a scheming biatch....blackmailing....seriously? come on Watari...kill her off already.. I don't care about fanbase...(Yui's dog should jump in front of the car and 8man throws Isshiki to save it). That was dark but I hate people like her....and I ALWAYS stand my ground against them, even if I know I will lose. (Hachiman you wuss, you might be a loner but you are still not on my level)

[Rioter]

Also a scheming biatch....blackmailing....seriously?
Not blackmailing but giving the feeling of guilt. Also all woman are pain in the arse. Source: Irohasu. Haters gonna die.

[lijenstina]

Iroha is like that. A blend of several characters, some of them unlikable. As a potential holder of a third grade Hikigaya certificate, she knows how to handle him.

“I mean, if I invited you normally senpai, there’s no way you’d come, right?”.

Ask yourself why she does it? Why she looked at her phone while waited for him to finish (from the tone of the chapter she looked at the photos), talked before about memories? Why she hangs out all the time in the club, why she proposed to write something about the Service Club, why both Yukino and Yui got closer to her? Why Hachiman felt guilty?

The thing is while on the surface Iroha seems selfish and manipulative (and she is, without a doubt to a certain extent), there are some real emotions involved. That makes the difference - that's the main reason why Hachiman is compelled to do so or he felt guilty.

Her eyes didn’t look sly in the least which was exactly why the normally childish Isshiki appeared more honest. Having seen her like that, I had to get this done no matter what…

She is not different to Shizuka (Battle Royale), Haruno (poking Yukino, Hachiman and Hayato) and Hachiman himself (like I said before lying about Komachi liking Pan San). Hachiman thoughts about her being the Producer reflect that nicely. And something did come out of it. Maybe an extraordinary memory.

[vienx]

iroha is a heavy contender for yukino in my ship ><
if only yukino dont exist then i will ship her with 8man with all my heart..

hmm.. i think if iroha only using hachiman.. he will realize it snce 8man always trying to look beyond a person acting and word..
and it is just my wild guess..
but even though iroha hasnt realized.. she must have develop somekind of feeling for hachiman

[csuree]

or.....
we got a pretty good foreshadowing here in 10.5:
Isshiki acts like a scheming (u know what)....using Hachiman; Yui declares that when the time comes she will protect him. Am I the only one that ties these 2 together and hope for something big?

Iroha is still hung up on Hayama....and those kind of women are the worst, given Iroha's personality it makes it even worse.

[IndexOfIdeas]

For me its like iroha is just using hayama as excuse for hikki the why would hayama ask hikki about why iroha confess to him.

If i recall it right hayama says that iroha didnt really confess to her point me out if im wrong.

[Fruity]

or.....
we got a pretty good foreshadowing here in 10.5:
Isshiki acts like a scheming (u know what)....using Hachiman; Yui declares that when the time comes she will protect him. Am I the only one that ties these 2 together and hope for something big?

Iroha is still hung up on Hayama....and those kind of women are the worst, given Iroha's personality it makes it even worse.

I think you're reading into it way more than you should (maybe because you ship Yui and you dislike Iroha from what I can tell). I doubt Yui's quote of helping 8man will have anything to do with Iroha; most likey it'll crop up when 8man falls sometime during the Yukino arc. Iroha may be scheming and manipulative but it's very unlikely she would do anything that would hurt 8man. It'd honestly be out of character.

In the same vein, I do think Iroha will be crucial in helping 8man find his path largely because she interacts/understands 8man in a way the other girls don't (or have yet to).

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Sorry for interrupting but do you think this could work?
http://i.imgur.com/UEA1l7N.jpg

[JDFUdude]

Sorry for interrupting but do you think this could work?
http://i.imgur.com/UEA1l7N.jpg

Work? I don't know... But holy shit ain't that cute.

[Tormenk]

Sorry for interrupting but do you think this could work?
http://i.imgur.com/UEA1l7N.jpg

It's very nicely drawn. Good work if it's yours. :)

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Sadly it's not. I wish I could draw like that.

In the same vein, I do think Iroha will be crucial in helping 8man find his path largely because she interacts/understands 8man in a way the other girls don't (or have yet to).

That's certainly true, which makes it even more surprising that she was introduced this late.
It kinda sucks that we're beginning the last arc already. I don't want Oregairu to end. I want to see them in college and as adults... I want to see Shizuka getting married... I guess I'm asking for too much

[ShirayukiX]

Sadly it's not. I wish I could draw like that.



That's certainly true, which makes it even more surprising that she was introduced this late.
It kinda sucks that were beginning the last arc already. I don't want Oregairu to end. I want to see them in college and as adults... I want to see Shizuka getting married... I guess I'm asking for too much

Your're not the only one. I'd really like to see the love life of Yukino and Hachiman, if it happens which i hope does. GOD PLEASE LET IT HAPPEN!!!

[csuree]

Yeah we can't just let our Hachiman go. We need to supervise his progress in the harsh world of adults.
You cannot write it off with a fairytale ending: and they lived happily ever after.

More so because if Hachiman chooses a girl the others will have their hearts broken, and if he does not choose any.. the same result...so.. he is in a pinch...

[ShirayukiX]

Yeah we can't just let our Hachiman go. We need to supervise his progress in the harsh world of adults.
You cannot write it off with a fairytale ending: and they lived happily ever after.

More so because if Hachiman chooses a girl the others will have their hearts broken, and if he does not choose any.. the same result...so.. he is in a pinch...

I hope he ends up with Yukino, but it wouldn't bother me much if he chooses Yui. Hachiman choosing nobody would aggravate me the most though, only because i can't stand when the MC has girls who like him and he doesn't choose no one by the end (most harems I see).

[YumeNoMonogatari]

I honestly don't care who's going to be the end girl anymore, since I love them all so much. I'm fine with whoever Hachiman chooses.
I think each girl has something to offer.

[impervious0ne]

I hope he ends up with Yukino, but it wouldn't bother me much if he chooses Yui. Hachiman choosing nobody would aggravate me the most though, only because i can't stand when the MC has girls who like him and he doesn't choose no one by the end (most harems I see).


TBH, any shippers will nitpick any moments. I would like to think Yukino would end up with Hachiman, but as long as those 2 characters get a satisfactory resolution, I'm ok with whatever ending man.

[endarion88]

wait...was it confirmed that this is the last ark?

[ShirayukiX]

wait...was it confirmed that this is the last ark?

All we know is that the series is at the final stage. It's highly likely that it is, but the final stage could mean anything, it all depends on what Watari has in mind.

[Armando99]

I honestly don't care who's going to be the end girl anymore, since I love them all so much. I'm fine with whoever Hachiman chooses.
I think each girl has something to offer.

I think that is a good attitude to take.

We are only speculating and generally have our own preference while doing so. Unfortunately, the author has the last say on who he ends up with, if he ends up with anyone at all. He could end it hanging just like so many other LN's had in the past.

[vienx]

I honestly don't care who's going to be the end girl anymore, since I love them all so much. I'm fine with whoever Hachiman chooses.
I think each girl has something to offer.

i agree,, i love all main heroines,, but most of all are yukino and iroha :D

[clarkken228]

i agree,, i love all main heroines,, but most of all are yukino and iroha :D

Your choice is not "most" anymore because there are two of them. Choose only one because one can only has one lover. Mine is Yukino.

[ShirayukiX]

I think thats what makes this series so amazing. You can't really hate anybody, since everyone has at least two sides to their character. For example, I don't like Haruno, but only because I don't know what she is trying to accomplish; yet I still like her, because we know she cares about yukino.

[vienx]

Your choice is not "most" anymore because there are two of them. Choose only one because one can only has one lover. Mine is Yukino.

i hate to choose,, but if i have to then it would be yukino for sure

[SomeChineseGuy]

Sorry for interrupting but do you think this could work?
http://i.imgur.com/UEA1l7N.jpg

Maybe probably kinda sorta. Hikki doesn't observe them interact with each other much, but the idea is interesting.

[Log]

Yo is volume 6.5 translated?

[YumeNoMonogatari]

All we know is that the series is at the final stage. It's highly likely that it is, but the final stage could mean anything, it all depends on what Watari has in mind.

Besides it was announced that Watari is planning on writing a dark fantasy (with Saitom as the illustrator) somewhere last year. I doubt that he is going to work on both Oregairu and this at the same time, since Watari is always complaining that he's working to much :heh:

Yo is volume 6.5 translated?

Only the bonus track.

[lijenstina]

That's certainly true, which makes it even more surprising that she was introduced this late.
It kinda sucks that we're beginning the last arc already. I don't want Oregairu to end. I want to see them in college and as adults... I want to see Shizuka getting married... I guess I'm asking for too much

The problem with Shizuka is that instead of getting married she should look for someone she wants to spent her life with instead. Then, getting married is then just a logical consequence of it.

On a side note, there is a good web manga called ReLife I could imagine her as a subject of that program. :) Also it fits with the theme of what if's from Vol. 8

[Cinnamon]

The problem with Shizuka is that instead of getting married she should look for someone she wants to spent her life with instead. Then, getting married is then just a logical consequence of it.

On a side note, there is a good web manga called ReLife I could imagine her as a subject of that program. :) Also it fits with the theme of what if's from Vol. 8

Oh yes, ReLife is a really good web manga. Then again, the whole do-life-again, reincarnation theme seems to be really popular in Japan recently so I'm not surprised it's on top of the comico.jp ranking. And it's free :P

Also, if Hiratsuka-sensei really went with the ReLife program, I'm sure she would be a fearsome competitor for the rest of the club. 8man says it himself in Vol.9 after all :P

[YumeNoMonogatari]

Also, if Hiratsuka-sensei really went with the ReLife program, I'm sure she would be a fearsome competitor for the rest of the club. 8man says it himself in Vol.9 after all :P

There would be no competition then :D

Here's a little something that I wouldn't mind seeing ;)
http://i.imgur.com/chruvel.jpg

[ShirayukiX]

[QUOTE=YumeNoMonogatari;5522954]Besides it was announced that Watari is planning on writing a dark fantasy (with Saitom as the illustrator) somewhere last year. I doubt that he is going to work on both Oregairu and this at the same time, since Watari is always complaining that he's working to much :heh:


Isn't he also working on Qualidea? Where did you get this news from? All i hope for is that Oregairu has a good ending.

[Tormenk]

wait...was it confirmed that this is the last ark?

Nope. Everyone's just guessing based off Vol.6's afterword where Watari revealed the story had just reached the midpoint, though that does leave two volumes or so to wrap things up if the afterword holds true.

[megaroad1]

Iroha man...I'm not crazy about her like some folks, but I have to hand it to her. She's as cunning as a fox and has muscled her way into Hachiman's life in a way that Yui and Yukino cannot match.

I think someone wrote here earlier that Yui needs to do something big in order to make herself heard with Hachiman. I think I agree. I don't expect Yui to be the "chosen one", but I do expect her to be a catalyst for Hachiman to move forward in some way. Just like how Yukino and Hachiman have gotten closer partly thanks to her.

[Shadow5YA]

I don't expect anyone to be the "chosen one". At least not yet.

It's much more realistic and in oregairu's style for Hachiman to fall in love with someone completely unrelated later when he goes to college or something.

[lijenstina]

Oh yes, ReLife is a really good web manga. Then again, the whole do-life-again, reincarnation theme seems to be really popular in Japan recently so I'm not surprised it's on top of the comico.jp ranking. And it's free :P

Also, if Hiratsuka-sensei really went with the ReLife program, I'm sure she would be a fearsome competitor for the rest of the club. 8man says it himself in Vol.9 after all :P

Yeah. And I've read somewhere that ReLife going to receive an anime adaptation.
Again!! was good too, albeit it dropped in quality towards the end a bit. :)

[Armando99]

Hiratsuka-sensei is going to marry Ikki when he graduates from college. Heh! Heh!

[csuree]

this ikki guy again :)
His name is Hikigaya Hachiman, Hikitani for Hayama and his gang, Hikio for Miura, and Hikki to Yui.

[Armando99]

this ikki guy again :)
His name is Hikigaya Hachiman, Hikitani for Hayama and his gang, Hikio for Miura, and Hikki to Yui.

He is a story character the last time I checked. You call him what you want and I (and a few others) will call him what we want. This way, you're happy and I am happy. Everybody is happy!

BTW, I named him such because it sounds more memorable, at least to me.

[ShirayukiX]

I don't expect anyone to be the "chosen one". At least not yet.

It's much more realistic and in oregairu's style for Hachiman to fall in love with someone completely unrelated later when he goes to college or something.

I doubt that. Hikigaya would have to form a relation with that person the same way he has with Yukino and Yui, albeit a few differences. Plus, he already is so close with the two of them, and knowing Hikigaya, he probably wouldn't form any relations with people in college. He still is introverted at heart.

[Heat066]

Look what I found! Thanks 4chan. :heh:

https://soundcloud.com/pylonix/hello-alone-pylonix-house

and another one

https://soundcloud.com/okilax/yanagi-nagi-yukitoki-okilax-house-remix-bpm128

[YumeNoMonogatari]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CBkY6v3UsAACh7I.jpg
Source (https://twitter.com/yomo_tsuka/status/583525140635353088)

Look what I found! Thanks 4chan. :heh:

https://soundcloud.com/pylonix/hello-alone-pylonix-house

and another one

https://soundcloud.com/okilax/yanagi-nagi-yukitoki-okilax-house-remix-bpm128

So soothing :)
The Hello-Alone one is my favorite!

[RioFoxx]

The Yukinoshita part of that chapter was just way way way too cute for personal comfort. I'm sure I seemed like I was having some kind of breakdown for a few minutes trying to cope with the d'awwwww.

[Fruity]

Saw this somewhere else:

Title of episode in May
6话　つつがなく会议は踊り、されど进まず
7话　されど、その部屋は终わらぬ日常を演じ続ける
8话　それでも、比企谷八幡は
9话　そして、雪ノ下雪乃は

Rollar coaster will be an entire show it seems

[Tormenk]

Saw this somewhere else:

Title of episode in May
6话　つつがなく会议は踊り、されど进まず
7话　されど、その部屋は终わらぬ日常を演じ続ける
8话　それでも、比企谷八幡は
9话　そして、雪ノ下雪乃は

Rollar coaster will be an entire show it seems

Get hyped. :twitch::eyespin:

[Fruity]

Get hyped. :twitch::eyespin:

Looks like genuine will be an entire show though I'm not sure where Ch 7, Vol 9 is. My japanese isnt that great either

Does make you wonder if they really are going to cram Vol 10 in what...2/3 episodes?

[Excorsism]

Saw this somewhere else:

Title of episode in May
6话　つつがなく会议は踊り、されど进まず
7话　されど、その部屋は终わらぬ日常を演じ続ける
8话　それでも、比企谷八幡は
9话　そして、雪ノ下雪乃は

Rollar coaster will be an entire show it seems

We'll see whether this is true or not in an hour or two. Episode 7 is chapter 0's title so that's kind of odd.

[Fruity]

Saw the episode, most notable part was how pretentious the other school's faces were and the awkward hand animations

Storywise, I thought it was alright. A bit fast paced but thats a given at the point in the anime. Think they cut a few scenes as well (sensei and komachi), need to rewatch it though

[Excorsism]

So my guess at future episodes:

Episode 7 - Chapters 3-5
Episode 8 - Chapters 6-7
Episode 9 - Chapters 8 (If so, this is going to be one huge Yukino episode, please Feel.)
Episode 10 - Chapters 9-10

Would be perfect.

[Emballage]

Tamanawa definitely stole the show this episode.

Think they cut a few scenes as well (sensei and komachi), need to rewatch it though

This episode covered no further than the first half of chapter 3, correct? My gut feeling is that the Komachi scene would probably appear in the cold open next episode, so they don't have to spread the KFC excuse over multiple episodes.

[Heat066]

I saw this on 4chan, and laughed.

What if 8man was the MC of another anime? NGE?

>Misato tries to get him to move in with her.
>He refuses.
>She beats him into submission and drags him away.
>He's alway checking out her cleavage.
>He gets too excited when he sees her panties in the restroom, sees PenPen, runs out with his 8"er erect.
>After Misato takes her bath, she goes to his room to "talk" and finds him jacking it.

>Sits around with Rei reading books, whilst getting lots of glances and having long internal monologues on how beautiful and white her skin is.
>Steals Unit 00's heat shield to stab Ramiel pointblank after missing the shot 3 times
>Misato tells him that she's not angry, but disappointed in him. But he knows she's mad.

>Asuka tries to showoff her bobot to him he's like fuck off I don't even want to be on this boat.
>Angel attacks and he enters the Eva 2.0 without her.
>8man holds Angel's mouth open while ordinance is fired. Almost gets blowed up.
>Asuka says she hates him for piloting her Eva and hates him for not caring about dieing.

>She calls him a beta at school
>He fights back with snarky remarks that hit too close to home
>She cries
>feels bad but too much of a pussy to apologize
>They get over it while shopping together for Misato's birthday present

>He tells Kaworu to fuck off because he isn't a cute trap like Saika
>Pops Kaworu's head off instantly instead of waiting 5 minutes

>Has long monologue about how people are only nice to him because he pilots the eva that nobody would care about him otherwise.
>Gets into robot dies for our sins.

[lijenstina]

Tamanawa's jazz hands.
Someone should make a gif of it. :eyespin:

[d-rew]

In my head I always pictured him doing air quotations for the buzzwords, but this is pretty good.

[Heat066]

just saw the episode.

Those hand gestures, so awkward...

and it made me laugh so much. :heh:

[lijenstina]

Welp. It was I in the end. :heh:

http://i.imgur.com/YgqnLOW.gif

EDIT: Well not only me. :)

[Cinnamon]

just saw the episode.

Those hand gestures, so awkward...

and it made me laugh so much. :heh:

Those gestures are worthy of a gif!

[Heat066]

Those gestures are worthy of a gif!

Oh jeez, I can already see this getting spammed on 4chan. :heh:

[Shadow5YA]

I just noticed there's no Yahallo! loop on youtube. Someone should fix this :heh:

[Heat066]

Want a good example of publicity? ;)

http://matomono894.jp/blog-entry-181.html

[csuree]

did not even try guessing what town it is... obviously Chiba
But it is nice to see it a whole train for Oregairu.

What I found..
http://usagi-kit.deviantart.com/art/yahari-ore-no-seishun-love-come-wa-machigatteiru-373409566

Ebina would nosebleed so hard

[Tranhieu]

LOL at those katakana jargons. Iroha's getting backfired by her usual antics here.

[RioFoxx]

The best part, IMO, was Hikki's imitations of Iroha.

"I'm tired of you acting so sly."

"Puhleeeez!"

I died. It was hilarious.

[Shadow5YA]

Welp. It was I in the end. :heh:

http://i.imgur.com/YgqnLOW.gif

EDIT: Well not only me. :)

Can you edit this to have Hachiman joining in and doing his hand motions too?

[lijenstina]

It's really interesting how in a series that deals with superficiality there are so many superficial comments on teh interwebz.

Take for instance Yukino.

Yukino is out of character deredere moeblob. (1st ep)
Yukino acts like a biatch. (the previous 3 eps).
Or what happened to mah Yukino? for the current ep.

Seems that character development or characters with more than one trait are a concept that is far out there for some. Of course, the universal problem of adaptations being partially blamed for that always stands.

Still seems that the series is well received. Albeit, there is a big representative sample caveat to it but we're not going to go there.:)

Can you edit this to have Hachiman joining in and doing his hand motions too?

I'll try. :)

[HereticMagus]

It's really interesting how in a series that deals with superficiality there are so many superficial comments on teh interwebz.

Take for instance Yukino.

Yukino is out of character deredere moeblob. (1st ep)
Yukino acts like a biatch. (the previous 3 eps).
Or what happened to mah Yukino? for the current ep.

Seems that character development or characters with more than one trait are a concept that is far out there for some. Of course, the universal problem of adaptations being partially blamed for that always stands.
)

You don't say. I think spend all of my 48 hours after the airing of each episode explaining why Yukino is not a bitch on MaL.

[YumeNoMonogatari]

I love the part where Orimoto says "Sore ikeru!" but you can just see her thumb up on the left of the screen. I don't know why I found it so funny but I'm still laughing.

[SomeChineseGuy]

I saw this on 4chan, and laughed.

What if 8man was the MC of another anime? NGE?

>Misato tries to get him to move in with her.
>He refuses.
>She beats him into submission and drags him away.
>He's alway checking out her cleavage.
>He gets too excited when he sees her panties in the restroom, sees PenPen, runs out with his 8"er erect.
>After Misato takes her bath, she goes to his room to "talk" and finds him jacking it.

>Sits around with Rei reading books, whilst getting lots of glances and having long internal monologues on how beautiful and white her skin is.
>Steals Unit 00's heat shield to stab Ramiel pointblank after missing the shot 3 times
>Misato tells him that she's not angry, but disappointed in him. But he knows she's mad.

>Asuka tries to showoff her bobot to him he's like fuck off I don't even want to be on this boat.
>Angel attacks and he enters the Eva 2.0 without her.
>8man holds Angel's mouth open while ordinance is fired. Almost gets blowed up.
>Asuka says she hates him for piloting her Eva and hates him for not caring about dieing.

>She calls him a beta at school
>He fights back with snarky remarks that hit too close to home
>She cries
>feels bad but too much of a pussy to apologize
>They get over it while shopping together for Misato's birthday present

>He tells Kaworu to fuck off because he isn't a cute trap like Saika
>Pops Kaworu's head off instantly instead of waiting 5 minutes

>Has long monologue about how people are only nice to him because he pilots the eva that nobody would care about him otherwise.
>Gets into robot dies for our sins.



They forgot "talks Gendo into suicide" for the full picture.

In my head I always pictured him doing air quotations for the buzzwords, but this is pretty good.

Nah, he's too unironic for the airquotes.

Once again: and then these pretentious dumbasses grow up and become my project managers =_=. Beware =_=.

Want a good example of publicity? ;)

http://matomono894.jp/blog-entry-181.html

That's the second animu train in Chiba. The first was OreImo one. Those guys sure have fun.

[Excorsism]

You don't say. I think spend all of my 48 hours after the airing of each episode explaining why Yukino is not a bitch on MaL.

You're beating a dead horse. The irrational hate for Yukino is pretty ridiculous, but better stop while you can.

Anyway, OP single with a new illustration from Ponkan8. Truly the best.

http://www.tbs.co.jp/anime/oregairu/disc/images/cd01a.jpg