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monir
2013-04-24, 10:19
The purpose of this thread is to allow free discussion of theories and speculation of the Suisei no Gargantia anime series, but be warned since it may contain unmarked spoilers. Having a central location may help focus the discussion instead of spreading speculation over the various episode discussion threads.

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ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-24, 14:59
According to both historical accounts Earth entered an ice age leading to a human exodus in space. Those would be Ledo's ancestors. Some were left behind they were the Gargantians and other Earth bound human ancestors.

But according to Ledo abnormalities with the Sun caused the ice age. Much to his surprise Earth became a water world. According to Amy's historical input the ice melted and her people had to live on ships ever since. Land is all but a fable. They use the Sea Galaxy, sea creatures that are bio-luminescent and discharges electricity lighning to power their ships and serve as convergence points between ships.

Meanwhile in space the Galactic Human Alliance is at war with the alien species Hideous/Hideuaze.

Speculations:

The Hideauze placed their nest near a sun. They are also shown to absorb the energy of the special nuke. Hideauze have an space flower weapon that can regenerate and and emit an energy beam resembling lightning.

The Hideauze are the reason for the abnormalities of Sol, Earth's Sun. Absorbing the energy of our sun lead to an ice age on Earth. Later through their own discovery or through historical records the humans in space determined the reason for their exile are the Hideauze. Thus a war was declared against them. Rank and file like Ledo do not know the entire story just they know humanity is at war of survival against these aliens.

At some point in time the Hideauze stopped messing with Earth's sun. This caused the ice to melt and humanity to enter a new age of sail. But they left some remnants. Harmless and beneficial to humanity, the Sea Galaxies.

Also I speculate there could be dry land somewhere as fleets like Gargantia follow the Sea Galaxies. They just haven't found them yet due to their comfort zones.

Terrestrial Dream
2013-04-24, 18:13
Interesting, what if Hideauze's ability goes beyond that and able to control the energy of the sun. If Hiedauze are key to creating hospitable planet, the conflicts in the future is going to be interesting.

Aside from that does sees a time travel being involved?

Jan-Poo
2013-04-24, 18:41
So far the story seems to suggest that inhabitable are practically non-existent.

Avalon seems to be the major human outpost the alliance has and it is a space colony, moreover Ledo said that finding colonizable planets is one of the alliance's main objective and even suggests that earth might become the new "hub" of mankind in spite of the fact that there's no land.

It's really very hard to believe that they never found any planet with conditions good enough to be colonized in the whole galaxy or that they don't possess the technology to terraform any despite their incredibly advanced technology (Right now, for example, the project of colonizing Mars is more plausible than traveling to the nearest star or than gravity control)

I think that it might be all the Hideauze's fault. They are probably causing every single planet they go to to become uninhabitable just like how they did with earth. This is probably why the alliance hates them so much.

Iron Maw
2013-04-24, 21:32
I think that it might be all the Hideauze's fault. They are probably causing every single planet they go to to become uninhabitable just like how they did with earth. This is probably why the alliance hates them so much.

From what the first episode implied, the Hideauze seem to be some sort of planet eater to me. They don't just make a world uninhabitable, they kill it dead then move on to the next.

andyjay729
2013-04-24, 23:01
Has anyone wondered if the Hideauze might be descendants of a "wandering tribe" who left Earth sometime after Ledo's people did and started competing with the Alliance for territory and resources? The "snails" could be their mechas.

Ergo, Amy and co. are Hideauze.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-24, 23:36
Has anyone wondered if the Hideauze might be descendants of a "wandering tribe" who left Earth sometime after Ledo's people did and started competing with the Alliance for territory and resources? The "snails" could be their mechas.

Ergo, Amy and co. are Hideauze.

No you misunderstand. Wanderers or drifters are space colonists unaffiliated with the Human Galactic Alliance. In short independents.

Their ancestors left at same period of exodus when the Earth froze.

It is like Gargantia isn't the only fleet on Earth, Avalon is not the only fleet in space.

Gargantians and other humans on Earth are remnants of humanity that didn't leave Earth.

thundrakkon
2013-04-28, 20:00
Here is a thought. What if the reason why the Galactic Alliance has not picked up Ledo's distress beacon is because they have been defeated by the Hideauze? That means that Ledo will have no place to return to, and has to adapt to life on Earth.

Jan-Poo
2013-04-28, 20:05
That's possible. After all several months have passed and last time he was there the alliance suffered a major defeat. The Hideauze could have decided to retaliate.

Marina2
2013-04-28, 20:28
...or it is opposite

The Galactic Alliance has defeated Hideauze while Ledo was sleeping. The reason he can't contact them is because they cut him out from the line of communication as he's no longer "needed". Other soilders like him are also put in eternal sleep.

FateAnomaly
2013-04-29, 00:04
I doubt he is using a FTL distress signal. They are probably just out of reach.

Awrya
2013-04-29, 06:19
Another possibility is that maybe the cost (use of resources) of rescuing him outweighs his benefits as a soldier?
They may think he's immobile and drifting somewhere in space, not that he landed on a living planet.

lightbringer
2013-04-29, 07:24
Given that Chamber is still trying to work out their position, we can assume that Earth's coordinates have been lost to the Alliance. Which really sounds improbable given their tech level but there you have it. So he's stranded god knows where, he'd be lucky if it's in the same galaxy. Sub-lightspeed comms won't be of any use, and rescue is not forthcoming - if they don't know where Earth is, and don't know he's there, then there's no way they'd just randomly show up (except if it's convenient for the plot).

Ideally, I hope that he doesn't return to the fleet, or even have any means to do so, and just stays with Gargantia :) Failing that, I think he'll have to work out some way to open a wormhole or send an FTL distress call. Maybe that black tower that showed up in this episode can be of some use?

ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-29, 07:45
Given that Chamber is still trying to work out their position, we can assume that Earth's coordinates have been lost to the Alliance. Which really sounds improbable given their tech level but there you have it. So he's stranded god knows where, he'd be lucky if it's in the same galaxy.

Unless the early Alliance destroyed all navigational data on Earth given they encountered hostile alien life.

LKK
2013-04-29, 08:21
Given that Chamber is still trying to work out their position, we can assume that Earth's coordinates have been lost to the Alliance. Which really sounds improbable given their tech level but there you have it.
One possibility is that Chamber was deliberately programmed with insufficient data to locate Earth. Think about it from a commander's / Powers That Be perspective. You're sending a computer into battle against an enemy who wants to massacre your species. Are you going to program that computer -- which could be captured by the enemy -- with information on how to locate the home world? Would you let your pilot who's not even a full citizen in your culture know where to find the home world? What I'm suggesting is that Ledo may have been lied to by the Alliance and Chamber has been programmed to support that lie.

Raviel
2013-04-29, 08:58
^That makes too much sense for it to not be partially true, on that note, what if the orginal plan of the humans who left Earth was to allow the planet to regenerate and then return when it was habitable again.

Of course encountering the Hideauze would put a wrench in this plan thus the leaders of the Alliance keep Earth's location a secret to prevent the Hideauze from finding it.

Although until we find out more about the time scale of the setting we can't really say anything for sure, for all we know the Alliance has simply lost information about Earth because of the Hideauze.

LKK
2013-04-29, 10:54
^That makes too much sense for it to not be partially true, on that note, what if the orginal plan of the humans who left Earth was to allow the planet to regenerate and then return when it was habitable again.

Of course encountering the Hideauze would put a wrench in this plan thus the leaders of the Alliance keep Earth's location a secret to prevent the Hideauze from finding it.

My thoughts exactly. :D

Right now, I distrust everything Ledo and Chamber have said about the Alliance (except for episode 4's spoiler). Not because I think Ledo and Chamber are lying, but because I suspect Ledo has been lied to and Chamber has been programmed to support those lies.

lightbringer
2013-04-29, 12:34
Haven't seen it from that perspective, I think you're on to something. Wouldn't make sense to give so many possibilities for the enemy to discover your ancient homeworld. :heh: Especially not if you secretly hoped to return there later. Or if Ledo was lied to, as you say, and the higher ups are actually well aware that Earth is habitable again.

LKK
2013-04-29, 14:49
Here's another random speculation on another topic. What if the Hidxxx aren't really a new alien species? What if the Hidxxx are really mutated plants and animals that were taken into space as part of the humans' exodus?

Right now, the image I have of the exodus from Earth is one or more generational ships carrying humans (either awake or asleep) plus a complement of plants and bugs to support the humans' future home colonization. During the journey, the plants & bugs mutated, became (semi?) sentient and rebelled against their human masters.

How's about that for a What If scenario?

I love playing What If games. :heh:

ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-29, 19:13
Something occurred to me. Human family is phased out in the Alliance. But they have AI serving as teaching units to make their partners successful soldiers.

So who is really running the Alliance? Humans or AI that worship humans?

PzIVf3
2013-04-29, 20:45
Episode 5 will be bikini service

http://otanews.livedoor.biz/archives/51943436.html

ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-29, 21:14
You never stay for the ED previews, do you?

PzIVf3
2013-04-29, 21:26
You never stay for the ED previews, do you?

i always never check Op and Ed.

Raviel
2013-04-30, 00:47
Haven't seen it from that perspective, I think you're on to something. Wouldn't make sense to give so many possibilities for the enemy to discover your ancient homeworld. :heh: Especially not if you secretly hoped to return there later. Or if Ledo was lied to, as you say, and the higher ups are actually well aware that Earth is habitable again.

Now assuming the Alliance top brass do know that Earth is habitable (or at least hope that it is), I wonder if they ever considered the possibility of anyone surviving the ice age? With what we've been shown so far though, it looks like people left Earth and never thought about what would happen to anyone left behind.

LKK
2013-04-30, 08:26
^^ The leaders behind the Earth exodus would have been very short-sighted to not expect some survival after the disaster. Earth has had 5 mass extinctions in its history. But once life established a foothold on Earth some 3.5 billions years ago, it's never truly gone extinct. I'm not ready to guess on what life the leaders expected to survive the disaster. But for them to assume no life would survive seems like the stupidest choice to make.

Jan-Poo
2013-04-30, 09:18
Logically it should have been something way worse than a simple Ice Age.

At the very least they must have been convinced that the glaciation was irreversible. After all Ledo expected Earth to be still covered in ice.

LKK
2013-04-30, 10:43
After all Ledo expected Earth to be still covered in ice.
Do you believe what Ledo has been told?

ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-30, 10:50
Logically it should have been something way worse than a simple Ice Age.

At the very least they must have been convinced that the glaciation was irreversible. After all Ledo expected Earth to be still covered in ice.

To bring back my theory the Spacers probably did not expect the Hideauze to leave Sol alone thus reheating the Earth in the process.

Jan-Poo
2013-04-30, 11:11
Do you believe what Ledo has been told?

If he's being lied to then there are even more reasons to think there isn't a simple Ice Age involved.

At any rate the fact that the planet froze was confirmed by the Gargantians themselves and the fact that it is water planet now isn't something that should have logically happened at the end of an Ice Age.

lightbringer
2013-04-30, 18:37
That's one of those things that we are just going to have to suspend disbelief on. If you melt the arctic and antarctic ice sheets completely, you'd get an about 68 meters higher water level - obviously not nearly enough to cover all land masses. It wouldn't even be enough to reach the valleys of most mountain regions. Even if all groundwater would spontaneously rise to the surface for unexplained gravity-defying reasons, that would add another 20 meters or so. And any comets carrying enough water (let's forget that it's mostly deuterium and not protium for the moment - the "water comes from comets" theory is mostly discredited these days) to cover the surface would probably completely devastate the earth.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-04-30, 18:58
Thing is these fleets never leave the Sea Galaxy comfort zones. As they provide power.

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-04-30, 19:55
If there's no dry land, there's no dry land, let it be handwaved rather than nitpicked.

It's potentially more interesting if there is dry land and the fleet has to learn to break its reliance/blind trust on the Sea Galaxy in order to get there/make use of it. Could be a job for Ledo and Chamber...

Jimmy C
2013-04-30, 20:15
In their current condition, there's only one way for them to find dry land. Send Ledo and Chamber up to map the whole planet. And we don't know if Chamber has enough power to make orbit on his own.

MeggieMay
2013-04-30, 20:28
That's one of those things that we are just going to have to suspend disbelief on. If you melt the arctic and antarctic ice sheets completely, you'd get an about 68 meters higher water level - obviously not nearly enough to cover all land masses. It wouldn't even be enough to reach the valleys of most mountain regions. Even if all groundwater would spontaneously rise to the surface for unexplained gravity-defying reasons, that would add another 20 meters or so. And any comets carrying enough water (let's forget that it's mostly deuterium and not protium for the moment - the "water comes from comets" theory is mostly discredited these days) to cover the surface would probably completely devastate the earth.

Thing is these fleets never leave the Sea Galaxy comfort zones. As they provide power.

If there's no dry land, there's no dry land, let it be handwaved rather than nitpicked.

It's potentially more interesting if there is dry land and the fleet has to learn to break its reliance/blind trust on the Sea Galaxy in order to get there/make use of it. Could be a job for Ledo and Chamber...

First, I'm glad someone finally brought up the issue that if you melted the ice caps you'd still have land! It was a major goof up in Waterworld as well (a bigger one, in a way, seeing that movie had nothing like potential alien invasions/space catastrophes that might be used as a way to explain it ). I'm also not to sure the weather would work the way they're showing it if there wasn't any land left but I could be over thinking it here :heh: . Anyway, I think ReddyRedWolf has hit on something I also have been thinking about, which is they are stuck following the Sea Galaxy because it provides a steady power source. They need to get away from it to check things out and it could be that they have tried to do that. That could be the explanation of where Amy's parents & Ridgets father have disappeared to. Toss in that the thing that Chamber needs to really do is to get out of the atmosphere and check his star positions if he really want to figure out where he's at, and this show either has some interesting place it's going or some of us are out thinking the writers. Either way, I'm not going to stop watching because I've learned that sometimes things like this are clues to a plot and not just writing issues (Waterworld was still a mess, but that's neither here nor there ;) ).

Jan-Poo
2013-04-30, 20:49
The conclusion that our planet doesn't have enough water to submerge all the land is based on the assumption that every landmass will remain at the current altitude.

A water planet is still possible if for some reasons all the landmasses sink below the water level. We don't actually know how many years in the future we are or what kind of catastrophe happened, so this isn't completely impossible. Albeit it is very unlikely and I doubt this anime will actually provide such justification.


What I was actually trying to say is that when an ice age ends the temperature should simply return to normal levels. Here however it seems that it became even higher, and that means that another event must have occurred to cause all that, an event that most likely the old Earthlings didn't predict and couldn't predict when they left.

lightbringer
2013-04-30, 21:16
The landmasses above/below water level are located on tectonic plates. While these plates essentially float on magma, it's not like they can really sink - probably not even if they get broken apart violently by some cataclysmic event, as the magma will just cool off and form new plates. But in the end, I doubt we'll get a scientific explanation - this anime is about human relationships after all :heh:

And since it was mentioned, I actually like Waterworld, improbable as it is. Water planets are cool :)

Jan-Poo
2013-04-30, 21:41
The landmasses above/below water level are located on tectonic plates. While these plates essentially float on magma, it's not like they can really sink

Oh no, they can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerguelen_Plateau).
As you said they are all floating on magma. While we have no knowledge of entire continents sinking or emerging, there are several cases of relatively minor landmasses emerging and sinking above and below the sea level.

EDIT: check also Zealandia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealandia_%28continent%29)

Kirarakim
2013-04-30, 21:41
I also liked Water World, of course I was a kid when I last saw it and never thought about how scientifically accurate it was.

MeggieMay
2013-05-01, 00:08
Of course landmasses' can sink. What strikes me has highly unlikely, barring something cataclysmic which I've not ruled out, is "all" off them sinking. That would be akin to the entire planet shrinking big time. I'd think that phenomenon would heralded a lot of other issues in and of itself. Still, I'm not saying the writers can't cook up some half decent theory for what's happening. One theory I'd toss out is something like the planet being hit by a asteroid and having the planet tilt off axis comes to mind, since that could also explain some issues with the temperature (well if it's a issue but really, the ice caps should have reformed after that last ice age, land or no land above water) in general.

As for Waterworld, I saw it at a theater first-run. The theatrical version is not the extended cut many watched on TV growing up, which IMO is quite a bit better, but a shorter, harder to follow film. Still, my memories of the film are mixed. I didn't think it was a good film, though it did have a great look and it might have worked with better editing. Also, it was one of the last, if not the last, film I went to see in a theater with my mother (she was a fan of Kevin Costner) before she passed away. The best memory of the film I have is her turning to me during the scene where they were rowing the supertanker and asking me, in all seriousness, if the film was a comedy and then the two of us getting into a case of the giggles after I re-assured her that no, it was suppose to be a serious SF film (the scene had me thinking Monty Python's "Meaning of Life" so I knew exactly where she was coming from! :heh: ) :D

lightbringer
2013-05-01, 19:02
I stand corrected, they really can sink. Even if the area in question is quite small. Thanks for that link! But I wonder what happened to the material it displaced... must've gone up somewhere else then?

Funkatron
2013-05-01, 22:08
One possibility is that Chamber was deliberately programmed with insufficient data to locate Earth. Think about it from a commander's / Powers That Be perspective. You're sending a computer into battle against an enemy who wants to massacre your species. Are you going to program that computer -- which could be captured by the enemy -- with information on how to locate the home world? Would you let your pilot who's not even a full citizen in your culture know where to find the home world? What I'm suggesting is that Ledo may have been lied to by the Alliance and Chamber has been programmed to support that lie.

In other words, they have a Cole Protocol

In the "Halo" universe, all UNSC ships have standing orders to wipe all nav data when facing capture to prevent the Covenant from reaching Earth.

JamJackEvo
2013-05-02, 06:41
The Covenant threat, I can understand them hacking data out of the UNSC's ship computers.

The Hideauze, however, is still an uncertainty for me, because we haven't seen what it is they are. Are they intergalactic creatures that has no need for air to survive? Are they like a hive or colony, receiving orders from some Big Bad? Are the ships retaliating against the human attack automated or housing pilots? Automated attack vessels... huh, reminds me of Vandread.

The most important question, though, is whether or not they are computer-literate. Or a good enough substitute that they are able to decode encrypted data from chips that houses AI like Chamber.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-02, 07:45
I stand corrected, they really can sink. Even if the area in question is quite small. Thanks for that link! But I wonder what happened to the material it displaced... must've gone up somewhere else then?

It should work more or less like what happens when glaciers melt, all the water that is concentrated at high altitude in a localized point will melt and equally distribute to the whole surface of the planet.

So basically if all the land were to sink below the water level, the tectonic plates would be shaved of excessive materials (oceanic crust is thinner than continental crust) which would join the magma and the diameter of our planet would probably enlarge of a few millimeters or even less...

Naturally this is extremely unlikely to happen, and you'd probably need some kind of purely speculative phenomenon.

One realistic scenario for the earth to turn into a water planet would be the case of a major catastrophe that would turn our planet into a ball of magma and all the water into vapor. Then the surface of the planet would equalize due to gravitational forces and in a few million of years a new crust would form and water would cool down covering an almost perfectly even surface...

Obviously that's not what happened in this anime...

Funkatron
2013-05-03, 16:19
The Covenant threat, I can understand them hacking data out of the UNSC's ship computers.

The Hideauze, however, is still an uncertainty for me, because we haven't seen what it is they are. Are they intergalactic creatures that has no need for air to survive? Are they like a hive or colony, receiving orders from some Big Bad? Are the ships retaliating against the human attack automated or housing pilots? Automated attack vessels... huh, reminds me of Vandread.

The most important question, though, is whether or not they are computer-literate. Or a good enough substitute that they are able to decode encrypted data from chips that houses AI like Chamber.

If Gen is getting his inspiration from Starship Troopers, then it could be a scenario where the Alliance thought the Hakeuze was dumb until they proved otherwise. In the movie version of ST, the bugs were thought to be stupid until the humans realized there were brain bugs which could both coordinate attacks and literally suck out intel from captured humans

duckroll
2013-05-08, 04:36
Subtitles for the upcoming episodes hint at the direction the series will take:

Ep6 - The Carnival
Ep7 - A Soldier's Fate
Ep8 - Separation
Ep9 - The Secret of the Ocean's Depths
Ep10 - The Island of Ambition

Kirarakim
2013-05-08, 05:09
It sounds like the plot may kick into gear around episode 7. This would be the half way point and does make sense.

sky black swordman
2013-05-08, 05:54
^ Yes, it does. :heh:

It maybe due to the title of the episode, but episode 8 has peaked my interest the most.

duckroll
2013-05-08, 06:33
I suspect Chamber is going to be stolen or taken away from Ledo, and the end-game starting from ep9 will be Ledo and Amy going on an adventure to uncover the secrets of Earth and recover his mech. I'll be happy with such a direction. Less mecha, more Nadia. :D

LKK
2013-05-08, 07:56
Ep10 - The Island of Ambition
Confirmation perhaps that the world isn't wholly covered with water?

Jan-Poo
2013-05-08, 08:06
Confirmation perhaps that the world isn't wholly covered with water?

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.

andyjay729
2013-05-08, 08:09
Okay, here's a fittingly soul-crushing, Butcheresque theory courtesy of an ANN member (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=597155).

Gargantia doesn't exist. It's all part of a simulation to prepare Ledo for civilian life.

Think about it; obviously at the beginning Chamber is telling Ledo about how he's about to become a full-fledged citizen a la Starship Troopers (another literary reference for your Butcher Bingo chart). He's still mentally at war in the first episode of course, and as people keep saying, this show will be about him adjusting into a cheerful, peaceful lifestyle. Just like therapy.

Things could change of course, but five episodes in we still don't know a whole lot about Amy, Bellows, and the others. Do they have other family? Did they go to school? How did they get their jobs, speaking of finding a job? Does Amy have a boss or supervisor?

And maybe my memory's short, but there aren't very many scenes where the Gargantians aren't in the same vicinity as Ledo. The few scenes where he can't see them could be easily mentally inferred.

And lastly, I'll just add that, given Gen's love of gigantic conspiracies, the Hideauze are just a creation of the Alliance government to benefit the military-industrial complex and keep the working classes (the ones who often make up the bulk of soldiers) in line. And also keep their numbers under control. The Alliance bigwigs might suspect that Earth is now habitable, but they're beholden to the construction contractors who built and currently maintain Avalon, so they don't want humanity moving back.

Triple_R
2013-05-08, 08:50
Okay, here's a fittingly soul-crushing, Butcheresque theory courtesy of an ANN member (http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=597155).

Gargantia doesn't exist. It's all part of a simulation to prepare Ledo for civilian life.

Think about it; obviously at the beginning Chamber is telling Ledo about how he's about to become a full-fledged citizen a la Starship Troopers (another literary reference for your Butcher Bingo chart). He's still mentally at war in the first episode of course, and as people keep saying, this show will be about him adjusting into a cheerful, peaceful lifestyle. Just like therapy.

Things could change of course, but five episodes in we still don't know a whole lot about Amy, Bellows, and the others. Do they have other family? Did they go to school? How did they get their jobs, speaking of finding a job? Does Amy have a boss or supervisor?

And maybe my memory's short, but there aren't very many scenes where the Gargantians aren't in the same vicinity as Ledo. The few scenes where he can't see them could be easily mentally inferred.

This is an interesting and creative theory. But I see at least three significant holes to it:

1. You're right that there's not all that many scenes with Ledo completely off-camera and out of the vicinity of the immediate action. But there are some, and what we have makes little if any sense if this is all an elaborate VR simulation. The key example here is when all the Gargantian bigwigs met together to decide what to do about Ledo and Chamber. One of the leading ideas was to kill Ledo and take his mecha. With that in mind, I don't see how having a VR's NPCs plot to take out the player-character and steal his mech helps much if the whole goal of this VR simulation is to prepare the soldier-player-character for cheerful, peaceful lifestyle. :heh:

2. If this was all an elaborate VR simulation, one would expect Chamber to be "in" on it, and to be actively helping its pilot get used to a more cheerful, peaceful lifestyle. Yet Chamber often comes off as "Stop worrying about these Gargantians and fitting in with their society. You will be rejoining the Galactic Alliance in time." This is downright counter-productive of Chamber if the ANN theory holds true.

3. The Galactic Alliance has the time and resources to design, develop, and write elaborate VR simulations, just to prepare their soldiers for integration into peaceful society, but they don't have the time and resources to care for one sick, little boy? There's a bit of a contradiction there, imo.


In conclusion, I wouldn't completely rule out this ANN theory, but I do think it's pretty unlikely.

GVN.Chaos
2013-05-08, 09:34
I suspect Chamber is going to be stolen or taken away from Ledo, and the end-game starting from ep9 will be Ledo and Amy going on an adventure to uncover the secrets of Earth and recover his mech. I'll be happy with such a direction. Less mecha, more Nadia. :D

Wait a second, while Chamber does help Ledo to control his mech, nothing say that he is absolutely needed for that.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-08, 09:46
Oh, if we are starting with wild speculations I have an even stranger one.
Mind you that I also believe this is very unlikely, but I think it's a funny idea so I'll share it with you:


Ledo doesn't come from space, Ledo comes from the sea!

Okay, we already know that Ledo was taken from the bottom of the ocean, but what I mean is that he was there to begin with!
Confused? You haven't heard half of it!

The whole alliance is in the sea! The Hideauze aren't giant monsters, they are actually very little creatures that live in the sea! Yes they are the very same creatures that the Gargantia knows!
Humanity didn't actually escape in some far place of the galaxy, humanity found a way to miniaturize itself to live in a sort of microscopic universe!

Now think for a moment, how do the Gargantians call the vast agglomerate of bugs in the sea? Right! Milky way! In other words those are exactly like some sort of galaxy in the sea!

How could Ledo so conveniently go to planet Earth just from a random space jump? He didn't! He simply returned to its original size! And of course he then sunk to the bottom of the ocean and you know the rest.

I know, it's crazy! But isn't it fun?!

duckroll
2013-05-08, 09:48
Wait a second, while Chamber does help Ledo to control his mech, nothing say that he is absolutely needed for that.

What? Chamber -is- the mech.

Kirarakim
2013-05-08, 10:19
What? Chamber -is- the mech.

People are confused and somehow think the AI and Mecha are two different things.

lightbringer
2013-05-08, 11:18
Oh, if we are starting with wild speculations I have an even stranger one
....
I know, it's crazy! But isn't it fun?!

I thought this is the speculation thread, not the doujin/fanfic thread :)

andyjay729
2013-05-08, 14:51
This is an interesting and creative theory. But I see at least three significant holes to it:

1. You're right that there's not all that many scenes with Ledo completely off-camera and out of the vicinity of the immediate action. But there are some, and what we have makes little if any sense if this is all an elaborate VR simulation. The key example here is when all the Gargantian bigwigs met together to decide what to do about Ledo and Chamber. One of the leading ideas was to kill Ledo and take his mecha. With that in mind, I don't see how having a VR's NPCs plot to take out the player-character and steal his mech helps much if the whole goal of this VR simulation is to prepare the soldier-player-character for cheerful, peaceful lifestyle. :heh:

2. If this was all an elaborate VR simulation, one would expect Chamber to be "in" on it, and to be actively helping its pilot get used to a more cheerful, peaceful lifestyle. Yet Chamber often comes off as "Stop worrying about these Gargantians and fitting in with their society. You will be rejoining the Galactic Alliance in time." This is downright counter-productive of Chamber if the ANN theory holds true.

3. The Galactic Alliance has the time and resources to design, develop, and write elaborate VR simulations, just to prepare their soldiers for integration into peaceful society, but they don't have the time and resources to care for one sick, little boy? There's a bit of a contradiction there, imo.


In conclusion, I wouldn't completely rule out this ANN theory, but I do think it's pretty unlikely.

Very good points. But up until he landed on Earth, a lot of Ledo's stimuli were filtered through Chamber.

My similar original theory was that this is actually some kind of loyalty exercise. It's all an exercise in self-denial. Ledo is supposed to resist the Gargantians' laid-back lifestyle. Pinon's plans to kill him may indicate how the Alliance wants him to remember these people are not to be trusted. Eventually the Alliance will return, guns a-blazing, and demand that he return to their ranks while they conscript the Earthlings. If Ledo obeys Chamber's commands and returns to them (as you pointed out), then he's passed and will become a full Alliance citizen. If he takes the Avatar route and sides with the Gargantians against his former comrades...well, you can probably guess what happens next. :uhoh:

The show may end with him giving a speech along the lines, "As for why I have no regrets in never being able to visit Avalon or live the life of a full citizen, I believe I lived more in the past three months than I did in the past 16 years. And now my final thoughts will be there."

GVN.Chaos
2013-05-09, 00:22
What? Chamber -is- the mech.

People are confused and somehow think the AI and Mecha are two different things.

Chamber - is - the AI. Think of he as Gundam's Haro. They are different things. People just like to group them together >.<
Beside, if he could remote control the mech, then steal it is even harder.

duckroll
2013-05-09, 00:55
Chamber - is - the AI. Think of he as Gundam's Haro. They are different things. People just like to group them together >.<
Beside, if he could remote control the mech, then steal it is even harder.

No, Chamber is the mech. The mech has an onboard AI so it can talk. Ledo has a handheld device which allows him to talk to it from a distance.

It's explained very clearly here: http://gargantia.jp/#mechanic_0

Chamber is the name of Ledo's Machine Calibre. It is installed with a Pilot Support Interface System which allows it to communicate with the pilot to provide information and advice, and also act on it's own.

The AI and the mech are the SAME thing. Please don't spread misinformation.

GVN.Chaos
2013-05-09, 02:34
Sorry then =.= But do you have a translation for that site ?

duckroll
2013-05-09, 02:59
Sorry then =.= But do you have a translation for that site ?

チェインバー(CV:杉田智和)

レドが搭乗するマシンキャリバー。パイロットと対話することでより優秀な兵士へと育成していくことを任務と する「パイロット支援啓発インターフェイスシステム」を搭載し、自律して行動できる。レドにとってかけがえ のない存在。


Chamber (Voice: Tomokazu Sugita)

The Machine Calibre piloted by Ledo. It is equipped with a "Pilot Support Enlightenment Interface System" which communicates with the pilot and nurtures him into a better soldier. It can act autonomously. It is something which is irreplaceable for Ledo.

--

As you can see, the mech and the AI are considered a single character. It's one complete system. The AI is equipped in the mech, and it's not the remote that Ledo carries around. That's just a communication device.

Kirarakim
2013-05-09, 07:42
No, Chamber is the mech. The mech has an onboard AI so it can talk. Ledo has a handheld device which allows him to talk to it from a distance.

It's explained very clearly here: http://gargantia.jp/#mechanic_0

Chamber is the name of Ledo's Machine Calibre. It is installed with a Pilot Support Interface System which allows it to communicate with the pilot to provide information and advice, and also act on it's own.

The AI and the mech are the SAME thing. Please don't spread misinformation.

Thank you I hope this clears it up for people

The thing is it should even be clear from the actual show since Ledo has only referred to the Mecha as Chamber every time.

GVN.Chaos
2013-05-09, 08:33
He introduced Chamber as an AI in eps 3 though >.<

Kirarakim
2013-05-09, 09:06
He introduced Chamber as an AI in eps 3 though >.<

But just because he says Chamber is an AI, doesn't mean Chamber cannot also be a mecha. He is both.

In every episode he refers to the mecha as Chamber

In episode 4 when the mecha gets tangled up in the wire, he yells "Chamber"
In episode 4 when he is shown where is supposed to sleep he said it's convenient because it is near Chamber.
In episode 2 when Amy first sees what Chamber is, he introduces it as Chamber.
In this latest episode when he calls for Chamber's help, he calling for the mecha that is being used as a BBQ

And so forth and so forth.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-09, 09:40
In the end any robot with enough intelligence can be also considered an A.I. because nothing can prevent you from taking the base program and moving it into a completely different machine.

It's not like "if it's a robot it can't be an A.I.". Even the movie A.I. by Steven Spielberg in the end is about intelligent robots.

Or to put it in another way the relation between "Chamber" and "Machine Caliber" is the same that exists between "Socrates" and "Human body". There are many "Human bodies" as there are many "Machine Calibers" but there is only one "Socrates" and when you see the human body where the mind of "Socrates" dwells in you call that "Socrates" as well, even if it would be still "Socrates" if you removed the body and you just left the brain.

The specific "Machine Caliber" Ledo pilots is "Chamber" because that's the "Machine Caliber" "Chamber" is installed on.

andyjay729
2013-05-12, 13:34
Hoo boy, the theorists are going to go nuts with Episode 6.

The Hideauze are probably related to the "Whalesquids" somehow, and generate the Gargantians' electricity. When they find out Ledo's people are trying to destroy the source of their livelihood, relations will turn sour pretty quick.

SUFFERING ahoy! Not Madoka-level suffering of course, but still much less fuwa-fuwa than what we've been seeing.

mikeomni
2013-05-12, 14:58
Certainly there will be conflict. We don't know to what level since it will be between Ledo and the Gargantians at this point. If the winding down of the violence is any indication, there is a possibility of a compromise where there is no death.

The Gargantians and fleets like it have been living with "Whalesquids" for who knows how long. It appears co-existence is possible. They might even be revered by the Gargantians ... which would cause a conflict if Ledo kills one.

This leads to the thought the Hideauze might not even be so alien afterall. The space ones look like snails to us. And the octopus (never seen one with barbs before) looked like the Hideauze to Ledo. Could Hideauze be a sort of biological machine produced by a different group of space colonists? It was previously established that there have been drifters. If humans need to migrate through space, water with living things in it would be hard to store except maybe as genetic maps which could be used to clone organisms. If you can clone it, you can modify it. Given that the Hideauze and Alliance were competing for the same planet, maybe this is really a turf war between humans.

Funkatron
2013-05-12, 18:31
Here are 2 scenarios I see:

Hikueze were created by man, maybe as a self sustaining power source. When man went to space, so did the Hikueze and then things went to crap


Man driven off Earth by Hikueze, some of them went native

Ghanw
2013-05-12, 23:54
Further speculation to what Funkatron said at 2. It could be possible that the Hideauze invaded earth before and to drive them off the humans artificially put earth in a ice age and brought the Hideauze to space to battle them.

Marina2
2013-05-14, 21:10
Further speculation to what Funkatron said at 2. It could be possible that the Hideauze invaded earth before and to drive them off the humans artificially put earth in a ice age and brought the Hideauze to space to battle them.

Base on this theory, I think it's more like the earth's ice age happened normally but Hideauze came to earth and melted all ice due to the enegy they created.

Ghanw
2013-05-14, 21:12
^True i see what you mean, but for some reason that came to my mind first instead of the other way around.

mechalord
2013-05-16, 14:20
Ledo could be in the past or in the far future. He caught up in a wormhole "accident."

Ledo either...

1) starts the war with the Hideauze. Ledo went back in time and started the whole war with genetically modified nanites and squid on Earth.
or
2) go thrown into the far future when the war has ended with humans surrendering, aliens restoring Earth, and humans giving up their technology. Ledo could be hundreds of thousands of years in the future. Hideauze settled down with luddite humans.
or
3) Terraforming technology went to hell. Earth ended up frozen. Humans started leaving. Hideauze were created to control electrobugs, terraform. fix planets.

The humans who left earth took their biotech with them and they tried to terraform planets with a different version of hideauze but their creation went bad.

My guess is that the nanite electrobugs are the key to controlling, subduing, ending the war with the hideauze.

stormy001_M1A2
2013-05-17, 17:54
I do wonder why Alliance humans only have silver coloured hair. Any ideas?

Jan-Poo
2013-05-17, 19:23
I do wonder why Alliance humans only have silver coloured hair. Any ideas?

I think it's most likely due to genetic impoverishment caused by eugenic measures and near extinction events through the alliance's history (Avalon's population is very low for a space faring civilization).

Humans need sun to be healthy, the less sun there is in the environment the whiter the skin must be (conversely where there is a lot of sun a darker skin protects better against dangerous UV rays). Though vitamin supplement can circumvent this problem, due to the lack of direct sun exposure in space, it was probably easier for the individuals to be very fair skinned to begin with.
I guess that their level of melanin is so low that even their hair and eye colors became like that.

Funkatron
2013-05-19, 13:33
So if space Hideauze are anything like the sea counterparts, they don't attack unless provoked, which makes wonder who started the Hideauze-Alliance war?

mikeomni
2013-05-19, 14:03
So if space Hideauze are anything like the sea counterparts, they don't attack unless provoked, which makes wonder who started the Hideauze-Alliance war?

Very possibly the Alliance. That very thought came up during the first episode: who's the aggressor and who's the victim? The Alliance was the one doing the attacking in that episode. No where was it mentioned that Avalon belonged to the humans, only that the Alliance want it and Hideauze has been competing with them. We sympathize with the Alliance because they are humans like us. This bias may be incorrect.

mechalord
2013-05-19, 18:14
I do wonder why Alliance humans only have silver coloured hair. Any ideas?


To make them look alien and different from earth born humans.

- they live in space
- are genetically engineered
- could be cloned

Jan-Poo
2013-05-19, 21:14
So if space Hideauze are anything like the sea counterparts, they don't attack unless provoked, which makes wonder who started the Hideauze-Alliance war?

Like I mentioned in the Episode7 thread, in my opinion it's likely that the Hideauze react to a certain technology. This could mean that they initiated the war themselves, but perhaps it's a "good reason" from their perspective, especially if the technology in question is "dangerous".



Very possibly the Alliance. That very thought came up during the first episode: who's the aggressor and who's the victim? The Alliance was the one doing the attacking in that episode. No where was it mentioned that Avalon belonged to the humans, only that the Alliance want it and Hideauze has been competing with them. We sympathize with the Alliance because they are humans like us. This bias may be incorrect.

I'm pretty sure that Avalon was created by the Alliance and the Hideauze do not have any real interest in it, other than as a threat to eliminate.

We know that the alliance actually wants to colonize planets and Ledo seems to suggest that they live on Avalon only because they don't have anything better.

The Hideauze are likely the cause that forces them to live in space colonies.

Irenesharda
2013-05-19, 22:21
I do wonder why Alliance humans only have silver coloured hair. Any ideas?

Well actually we have yet to see any of the Alliance civilians, and have only seen the military force which suggests that they have been genetically engeneered or cloned since all of them have silver hair and violet eyes.

However, since Red hasn't said anything about the Gargantians different hair and eye colors,we can assume that he has seen others in space that don't have silver hair and violet eyes.

Also, Red has mentioned that there are humans known as "drifters" that haven't joined with the Alliance and live in space to themselves. This suggests that humans have now spread among the stars and there is no longer just Earth humans and Alliance humans.

Triple_R
2013-05-20, 01:46
Dark Speculation Time:

1) Ledo was thrown back in time.

2) Time travelers from the future actually end up fulfilling their futures rather than changing them - i.e. the timeline already factors in the effect of time travelers before they go back in time.

3) The whalesquids are a peaceful but protective species. They tend to fight back if threatened, or if one of their number is killed. Otherwise, they are quite willing and able to co-exist peacefully with humans. The reason they didn't retaliate against the humans in Episode 7 is because the humans shutting down their power was correctly taken as an olive branch of peace. If the humans hadn't done that, war would have happened right then and there.

4) Ledo will actually end up starting the human/whalesquid war. He will fulfill his own future. And in the process, the peaceful and serene lives of the humans of Earth will be forever changed.

5) At some point, Ledo will have a deep, dark realization of just what he has done. He will realize what humanity has lost due to his actions. Yes, this anime will be about a young man trying to adjust to wider society... by showing the disastrous results of a young man ultimately failing at it. It becomes a cautionary tale.


This anime could be a Greek Tragedy with a superb sci-fi edge.

Now, if Gen decides to go full NGE on us...

6) Civilization on Earth completely collapses, as the whalesquids prove truly overwhelming in the human/whalesquid war. Ledo manages to save himself, Chamber, and Amy at the last second. They abandon the planet, and search the stars for a habitable world. They finally find one, and humanity is forced to start anew with Ledo and Amy as the forebears of future generations of humans. Ledo's philosophies end up shaping the Galactic Alliance to come, and he essentially becomes the founder of the GA.


I'm not sure I'd want the show to be that dark. But on the other hand, it would be incredibly bold and masterful if this is what Gen does. And this time, he could even say that he legitimately did fool a lot of viewers.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-20, 03:56
I don't think time travel is involved. As both their histories match up to a point. Which is after Ledo's ancestors left Earth.

If anything this increases the chance of mt theory that Hideauze feed on most forms of energy.

Ledo confirmed that. Being low-tech allows the Earther to be under the Hideauze's radar.

Humans didn't lose technology due to the ice age it was a survival strategy to save themselves from aliens attracted to their energy producing nanotechnology.

Suzuku
2013-05-20, 04:12
So do we know this is going to turn grim dark or something?

zztop
2013-05-20, 07:07
What does everyone suppose the whalesquid/Hideauze truly are? Maybe some kind of science experiment/genetic mutations gone wrong?

bastek66
2013-05-20, 07:40
Why we didn't notice earlier: THERE IS NO MOON

Jan-Poo
2013-05-20, 08:04
Dark Speculation Time:

1) Ledo was thrown back in time.


How do you explain the fact that both Gargantia and the Alliance know that Earth froze, but only Gargantia knows (obviously) that the planet unfroze and became a water ball?

You can probably speculate some kind of explanation but so far everything suggests that humanity fled the planet before it unfroze.


Why we didn't notice earlier: THERE IS NO MOON

Really? Uh... but how? Why?

Triple_R
2013-05-20, 08:59
How do you explain the fact that both Gargantia and the Alliance know that Earth froze, but only Gargantia knows (obviously) that the planet unfroze and became a water ball?

Given that the Alliance doesn't know the co-ordinates for Earth (going by what Chamber says, anyway), it stands to reason that they left Earth a loooong time ago. Let's say it was 1,000 years ago that they left.

Now, let's say that Earth unfreezes 250 years after they left, and that the events of this anime is taking place 500 years after they left. So Ledo would be sent 500 years into his past, but still long after the Alliance left Earth. So Ledo could still be in a position to fulfill his own future, and be the catalyst of the human/whalesquid war starting in the first place.


You can probably speculate some kind of explanation but so far everything suggests that humanity fled the planet before it unfroze.

Sure, but that's not incompatible with my main speculation. Admittedly, fitting the 6th part of that speculation (which I separated out from the rest because I think it represents the extremes to which this "dark twist" could go) in with this would be rather tricky. But the first 5 parts can fit with what you're pointing to here without much difficulty.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-20, 09:14
Better, but then you are basically saying that the initial human diaspora from planet Earth was unrelated to the Hideauze.

Even though it is hinted that the planet freezing was caused by a solar anomaly and we know that Hideauze create their nests near stars.

Kanon
2013-05-20, 09:43
There's two different directions I can see the show take at this point.

1. Ledo finds ruins of the previous civilization and discovers the truth about the Hideauze and the how the war started. That truth will be that the Hideauze are actually rather peaceful creatures (perhaps engineered by the humans) and co-existence with them is possible. The war started because humans attacked/hunt them first. It's entirely the Alliance's fault. He will realize his whole life is a lie and will have to look for a new purpose. He will find it on the Gargantia and live happily ever after with Amy. Good end.

2. Ledo discovers he is right about the Hideauze: they will attack the humans if their technology reaches a certain level. That will lead to a bleak ending, as Ledo alone cannot possibly exterminate them all. His only hope would be to contact the Alliance, but even that wouldn't lead to a good ending, since the Gargantians would be drawn into the conflict and their peaceful lives would come to an abrupt end. Another possibility is that Amy or somebody else manages to convince Ledo that co-existence is possible with the Hideauze if they abandon their quest to recover lost technology. I don't think this would sit well with him or the viewers however. That would mean the series has a luddite hippie theme... which I doubt would be received very well. Depending on your point of view, this could be a bad ending as well (humanity submits to their hideauze oppressors...).

I think 1 is more likely. The show has been trying pretty hard to paint the Alliance in a bad light, and I doubt that's a red herring. They're probably responsible for the conflict.

Irenesharda
2013-05-20, 12:47
Why we didn't notice earlier: THERE IS NO MOON

Are you sure? Wow, the destruction of the moon would definitely cause a calamity large enough to cause the wide spread death of millions and have the Earth become flooded.

They say it was caused also by the fluctuations in the sun. I have a feeling that too might link back to the Hideauze. In the first episode we see that the Hideauze are gathered around a giant yellow star. Since they're not burning up, it's obvious that they have not only become very durable, but are possibly around the star for a reason, most likely feeding off its energy. What if the Hideauze had begun to do the same to our sun and in doing so caused the fluctuations that destroyed the moon and made the Earth uninhabitable for a time?

Here's my theory:
The advanced humans of the distant past on Earth, needed more energy and decided to harness the energy of the sun using a different means. The created a biological, adaptable large flower plant using nanites and other tech that could gather energy and they put it near the sun (since plants are the primary autotrophs, it makes sense). However, the project went wrong and the organism mutated because of the cosmic and solar rays, causing it to take too much energy away from the sun causing the star to go haywire. The humans are able to destroy the organism, but the damage has been done. The nanites from the destroyed flower fall to earth and begin to affect sea life, and with the destruction and flooding of the Earth, the animals can go wherever they wish further infecting them.

These mutated animals and plants become the first Hideauze, that like the first created organism, their primary function, their food, is energy. When the humans left earth, and the waters began to freeze over they no longer has a food source and adapted themselves to survive in space and followed the humans. However there were still nanites and some Hideauze who stayed on Earth and survived, just as some humans did.

I know it's a little out there, but it's just speculation. ;)

mikeomni
2013-05-20, 15:33
Looking at 21:57 of Episode 1, there was no moon in the solar system map!

Jan-Poo
2013-05-20, 16:01
Looking at 21:57 of Episode 1, there was no moon in the solar system map!

I noticed that too, but it could simply be that the map that omits moons, For example there are supposed to be four moons around Jupiter and two small ones around mars, but they rarely appear in solar system maps.

I find it more unsettling the fact that the moon doesn't appear in any shot of the sky. There's still the possibility that this is simply a coincidence and we just never happened to see it, but I guess it's more likely that something happened to the moon.

Oh... wait...

http://plonq.org/up/519a8ebb942ab.jpg

Could it be that the Hideauze took it away to create their nest near the sun?

mikeomni
2013-05-20, 17:49
I noticed that too, but it could simply be that the map that omits moons, For example there are supposed to be four moons around Jupiter and two small ones around mars, but they rarely appear in solar system maps.

I find it more unsettling the fact that the moon doesn't appear in any shot of the sky. There's still the possibility that this is simply a coincidence and we just never happened to see it, but I guess it's more likely that something happened to the moon.

Oh... wait...

Could it be that the Hideauze took it away to create their nest near the sun?

UFO Discovery! That does look suspiciously moonlike. They've been throwing in so many little details in this anime, it's odd that the moon would be out of frame all the time. An artistic choice perhaps? Makes all the stars stand out maybe? In Ep 3 I chalked it up to perfect attack time for pirates.

MeggieMay
2013-05-20, 18:33
Why we didn't notice earlier: THERE IS NO MOON
Actually, I noticed it a few episodes back, that is that we've never seen the Moon in any night time long shots. However, I haven't seen anything 100% conclusive that it's missing or not. If it's missing it would help add into any explanation of what's going on with all the water but it would also mean some other things that might not be survivable (just Google the subject of "what would happen if the Moon disappeared" for more on the subject).

Revolutionist
2013-05-20, 18:38
Are you sure? Wow, the destruction of the moon would definitely cause a calamity large enough to cause the wide spread death of millions and have the Earth become flooded.

They say it was caused also by the fluctuations in the sun. I have a feeling that too might link back to the Hideauze. In the first episode we see that the Hideauze are gathered around a giant yellow star. Since they're not burning up, it's obvious that they have not only become very durable, but are possibly around the star for a reason, most likely feeding off its energy. What if the Hideauze had begun to do the same to our sun and in doing so caused the fluctuations that destroyed the moon and made the Earth uninhabitable for a time?

Here's my theory:
The advanced humans of the distant past on Earth, needed more energy and decided to harness the energy of the sun using a different means. The created a biological, adaptable large flower plant using nanites and other tech that could gather energy and they put it near the sun (since plants are the primary autotrophs, it makes sense). However, the project went wrong and the organism mutated because of the cosmic and solar rays, causing it to take too much energy away from the sun causing the star to go haywire. The humans are able to destroy the organism, but the damage has been done. The nanites from the destroyed flower fall to earth and begin to affect sea life, and with the destruction and flooding of the Earth, the animals can go wherever they wish further infecting them.

These mutated animals and plants become the first Hideauze, that like the first created organism, their primary function, their food, is energy. When the humans left earth, and the waters began to freeze over they no longer has a food source and adapted themselves to survive in space and followed the humans. However there were still nanites and some Hideauze who stayed on Earth and survived, just as some humans did.

I know it's a little out there, but it's just speculation. ;)

I actually like this as it seems more plausible than time travel, although when dealing with black holes that's also not too far fetched either.

rbsaito
2013-05-20, 20:48
I have a theory about the relation between hideauze, ledo & whalesquid.

First, I think Ledo didnt only travel to Earth phisically but also through time. We know that he got into some sort of "worm-hole" and "Worm-hole" theories are pretty common in sci-fis. They are often used to support time travel stuff. The time-travel theory could also explain why Chamber is having problem to localize Earth.

We know that hideauze and whalesquis are genetically similar and I think thats natural, because the first is the evolution of the latter. By means of natural selection & mutation, whalesquid became inteligente. The pinnacle of the whole theory: why suddenly they were "selected"? Because of Ledo. Maybe Ledo will try to exterminate them all and this forced "selection" could potencialize their evolution.

There are many problems with this theory and one of them is the "grandpa paradox". If we course assume an universe "steins;gate" like with multiple worlds this could be avoided.

I can even imagine an "Urobochi-ending" like Ledo realizing that his death would stop this endless cycle.

Of course all of this can be bullshit, but I think its something worth thinking.
Read more at http://myanimelist.net/forum/?topicid=602399&show=280#vptYckyDk2pDPQw0.99

Toreno
2013-05-20, 22:03
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss66/Toreno2k/z889hbj9_zps012748b7.jpg

Do you see what I see? :uhoh:

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-05-20, 22:13
Hidden secret fanservice? :)

Beltane70
2013-05-20, 22:45
I noticed that too, but it could simply be that the map that omits moons, For example there are supposed to be four moons around Jupiter and two small ones around mars, but they rarely appear in solar system maps.


Just to be a bit technical, Jupiter has four large moons, plus over 60 small moons. But, I get your point!

duckroll
2013-05-21, 04:22
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss66/Toreno2k/z889hbj9_zps012748b7.jpg

Do you see what I see? :uhoh:

Dat ass. Lol.

Awrya
2013-05-21, 04:36
http://i562.photobucket.com/albums/ss66/Toreno2k/z889hbj9_zps012748b7.jpg

Do you see what I see? :uhoh:

Very good find, but do you watch it frame by frame?
The average viewer would totally miss this.:heh:

Jan-Poo
2013-05-21, 07:23
It could be just a coincidence but.... well I guess I just can't exclude now that we will have a twist like: "hideauze is people!"

What frightens me the most is the fact that the mouth is exactly where it's supposed to be if that's a mutated human...

EDIT:

Hmmm guys... this could seriously end up to be true

http://plonq.org/up/519b77aada145.jpg

This isn't the kind of mouth you would expect from a Cephalopod or any fish really. This is the mouth of a mammalian...

duckroll
2013-05-21, 09:01
This isn't the kind of mouth you would expect from a Cephalopod or any fish really. This is the mouth of a mammalian...

Well, whales are mammals. :)

Jan-Poo
2013-05-21, 09:04
Well, whales are mammals. :)

Well, sure... but... how does that affect my observation?

LKK
2013-05-21, 09:23
Wow. Those are impressive carnivore teeth. The images go by so quickly, I never noticed them in broadcast. But they don't really look like the teeth Ledo has been carving. Too pointy. I think if the ones he carved looked like those, we would have thought of carnivore teeth earlier. Something doesn't fit.

duckroll
2013-05-21, 09:29
Well, sure... but... how does that affect my observation?

The people in Gargantia call them Whalesquids. Not Giant Squids. So they're clearly aware of the fact that they're not just Cephalopods. There seems to be documentation with regards to their nature and existence. It's not like everyone thinks they're just normal squids, and then get a huge surprise when they discover later that they have mammal properties. They've known all along. In fact, the "teeth" which Ledo collects and makes flutes out of, are definitely modeled after whale teeth.

http://i.imgur.com/CWreHmQ.jpg

Jan-Poo
2013-05-21, 09:46
The people in Gargantia call them Whalesquids. Not Giant Squids. So they're clearly aware of the fact that they're not just Cephalopods.

Ah, I understand now what you were getting at, however that's not something you should automatically conclude just by the name.

Example: whale sharks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whale_shark)

They are decidedly sharks (fish), and they have nothing mammal like.
The main reasons they are associated to whales is because they are very big and they feed on plankton.

And don't let me even get started on "seahorses" and "guinea pigs".


There seems to be documentation with regards to their nature and existence. It's not like everyone thinks they're just normal squids, and then get a huge surprise when they discover later that they have mammal properties. They've known all along. In fact, the "teeth" which Ledo collects and makes flutes out of, are definitely modeled after whale teeth.

http://i.imgur.com/CWreHmQ.jpg

Well they definitely know that they aren't just like your average sea creatures, but there's the fact that when Ledo reacted to the octopus Bellows (or was it pinion?) commented "what would you do if you saw a whalesquid?" Suggesting that they think octopuses and whalesquids are closely related.
I don't think that they have a depth biological knowledge of what the whalesquids are, especially considering that they most likely never captured one of them to examine it. They most likely think it's just some kind of strange and dangerous squid.

The teeth that Ledo collects are not something that the Gargantians are familiar with judging from Bevel and Amy reactions.

Irenesharda
2013-05-21, 14:21
The people in Gargantia call them Whalesquids. Not Giant Squids. So they're clearly aware of the fact that they're not just Cephalopods. There seems to be documentation with regards to their nature and existence. It's not like everyone thinks they're just normal squids, and then get a huge surprise when they discover later that they have mammal properties. They've known all along. In fact, the "teeth" which Ledo collects and makes flutes out of, are definitely modeled after whale teeth.

http://i.imgur.com/CWreHmQ.jpg

I don't know if its really correct to assume they really know the difference. So much of earth's history and science has been lost at this point. Up until the point Red arrived, they thought that people being able to go into space and that most of humanity had done so, was just a myth. I think we can probably assume that their knowledge of the science classification might have regressed as well.

They might just call them "whalesquid" since they identify them with being as big as a whale, not because they don't think of them as cephlopods. It's the same reason we call a sea star a "starfish" despite the fact that it's neither a star nor a fish. And someone already talked about the "whale shark" thing. These names usually came about before we really classified the animals, and I think this probably applies to Gargantia's referring to the rather mutated version of giant squid as "whalesquid".

The "whale squid" are definitely not your regular giant squid, as it's been stated and shown that they now have predatory teeth rather than a beak, they now have multiple eyes rather than the standard two, and their fins have become elongated appendages. However, this points like I said, to a completely mutated (or genetically engineered?) form of squid.

duckroll
2013-05-21, 15:04
I suppose that's true, but from a design perspective in the production, I think the fact that they decided to have the characters call them "Whalesquids" and also modeled their teeth after Whale teeth, it would indicate that the intention is for the audience to associate them as some sort of whale/squid hybrid. I totally agree that they're a mutation, but I just don't think that there's any implication that they're related to humans in any way.

Toreno
2013-05-21, 15:10
Very good find, but do you watch it frame by frame?
The average viewer would totally miss this.:heh:


Actually you can see it almost all the time, it's just more obvious in this frame.

I just can't see this being a coincidence. Definitely started some interesting theories in my head...

Irenesharda
2013-05-21, 15:27
I suppose that's true, but from a design perspective in the production, I think the fact that they decided to have the characters call them "Whalesquids" and also modeled their teeth after Whale teeth, it would indicate that the intention is for the audience to associate them as some sort of whale/squid hybrid. I totally agree that they're a mutation, but I just don't think that there's any implication that they're related to humans in any way.

I can't see them as related to humans either. And remember that the squid variation is not the only type of Hideauze, we also have seen flower type, snail type, nautilus type, and several other sea related things, and none of those look even remotely human.

I don't know if I would call the teeth specifically "whale type" since there are other sea creatures with those type of teeth. Also, strangely Red doesn't call them "teeth" but "nail" or "claws", so they might use them not for eating, but for holding on to things.

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-05-21, 15:37
The things ("nails") that Ledo is pulling out of the Machine Caliber and making flutes out of appear to be hooks from the squid/Hideauze's arms. (Actual colossal squid information here, see "Morphology," (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_squid) and "sheathed hooks" in this picture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Composite_diagram_illustrating_basic_squid_fe atures,_ventral_aspect.jpg).)

The whalesquid's actual mouth area is somewhat more mammalian than cephalopod (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_beak), but the actual cephalopod version would have looked like that from a bird or, well, human naughty bits.

andyjay729
2013-05-26, 22:25
The things ("nails") that Ledo is pulling out of the Machine Caliber and making flutes out of appear to be hooks from the squid/Hideauze's arms. (Actual colossal squid information here, see "Morphology," (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_squid) and "sheathed hooks" in this picture (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Composite_diagram_illustrating_basic_squid_fe atures,_ventral_aspect.jpg).)

The whalesquid's actual mouth area is somewhat more mammalian than cephalopod (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalopod_beak), but the actual cephalopod version would have looked like that from a bird or, well, human naughty bits.

Yes, that un-squidlike mouth suggests to me that there's a lot more to the Hideauze than Ledo's been told.

Everyone seems resigned now to how Chamber estimates the message won't reach the Alliance for about 6000 years, but...what if they tracked him to Earth, deduced that it's inhabitable, and starting making their way there 6000 years ago, knowing that only their descendants would reach the planet, and they're just about to arrive?

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-05-26, 22:34
I don't really see Chamber pranking Ledo by telling him "Oh, I forgot to mention that we jumped 6000 years into the past," though... :)

Jan-Poo
2013-05-26, 22:35
How can you "track" something that's 6 thousand light years away?

Moreover they don't need 6 thousands years to travel to Earth, since they can use wormholes to get there. Supposedly as soon as they get Ledo's message they should be able to get to earth in a few days or months.

However unless Chamber lied, Ledo has been on Earth for only about 6 months.

I don't really see Chamber pranking Ledo by telling him "Oh, I forgot to mention that we jumped 6000 years into the past," though... :)

They would still need to wait 6000 years regardless.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 22:46
Yes, that un-squidlike mouth suggests to me that there's a lot more to the Hideauze than Ledo's been told.

Everyone seems resigned now to how Chamber estimates the message won't reach the Alliance for about 6000 years, but...what if they tracked him to Earth, deduced that it's inhabitable, and starting making their way there 6000 years ago, knowing that only their descendants would reach the planet, and they're just about to arrive?

Well it wouldn't take the Alliance that long to travel to Earth since they are capable of interstellar travel as well as manufacturing their own wormholes.

And Red is aware of the un-squidlike mouths since the snail and nautilus-like Hideauze in space have attacked him, also bearing mouths that would not be natural of their specific original species. It's obvious that even as this things originated from Earth, they have been quite mutated and are now much more predatory and powerful. I mean, since when does a snail need incisors like that?

Jan-Poo
2013-05-26, 23:00
And Red is aware of the un-squidlike mouths since the snail and nautilus-like Hideauze in space have attacked him, also bearing mouths that would not be natural of their specific original species.

Ledo never saw an octopus before, he doesn't know that squids aren't supposed to have those teeth. Even then he never thought that Hideauze are squids to begin with nor that they originated from Earth.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 23:11
Ledo never saw an octopus before, he doesn't know that squids aren't supposed to have those teeth. Even then he never thought that Hideauze are squids to begin with nor that they originated from Earth.

In actuality I don't think he really cares regarding their origin, as of this point they are really neither squid nor snails nor flowers, to him they are all Hideauze.

Which is also interesting, that somehow all of these previous earth species now have a single shared genome and have become one species. I would really like them to explain the science on that! :D

Jan-Poo
2013-05-27, 07:00
Well I think everyone is expecting some kind of explanation about the Hideauze's origin and agenda, we've been teased a lot by them and we know almost nothing apart from some theories which may or may not be true.

I'd be really disappointed if they didn't give us answers by the end of the anime.

Speculating a bit I think it's interesting to note that the Hideauze followed the "milky way" on their path, I guess here's probably a connection between them and those nanomachines that Chamber talked about.

larethian
2013-05-27, 10:11
It could be just a coincidence but.... well I guess I just can't exclude now that we will have a twist like: "hideauze is people!"

Perhaps, Hideauze = Mobile Suits piloted by people :heh:

Could be a coincidence or a joke. But that looks too much like a butt and even the scapula lines are where they are supposed to be.


Currently, I'm thinking along the lines that the people who left will get into some kind of trouble and it will Gargantia who will save them at the end.

Casshern
2013-05-27, 15:55
So, what are the chances of this breakaway fleet being slaughtered when they pick a fight with the hideauze, and Ledo returning to Gargantia after that?

I'm wondering if it's already too late for this series to turn dark after so many episodes.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-27, 16:35
I don't think the whole fleet will be completely destroyed but I think that the chances that it will suffer heavy casualties are fairly high.

There aren't many episodes left and Amy and Ledo cannot stay separated for too long.

I also have the feeling that Melty is the next in line for the Urobutchering.

Terrestrial Dream
2013-05-27, 16:40
I guess the show might be getting darker. But for Mlety to die, wouldn't that be bit of too much swing in the feel of the show?

sky black swordman
2013-05-27, 17:12
I don't think the whole fleet will be completely destroyed but I think that the chances that it will suffer heavy casualties are fairly high.
What are the chances that the survivors will put the blame on Ledo for failing to protect them ? IMO, the chances are high due Pinion opening his big mouth and saying that they will be find as long as they have Ledo and Chamber.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-27, 19:40
I also have the feeling that Melty is the next in line for the Urobutchering.

The guy only wrote the first and last episodes yet you guys are blaming him for every bad thing happening in the series.:heh:

Jan-Poo
2013-05-27, 19:51
The guy only wrote the first and last episodes yet you guys are blaming him for every bad thing happening in the series.:heh:

Well the decision of making a character die and which is something that he could have determined as one of the two main writers of the series, even if the episode where it happens isn't written by him.

lightbringer
2013-05-27, 20:05
Didn't he say that this series will not be as dark? I think the chances of the entire main cast surviving this are fairly high.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-27, 20:10
Well yeah but I don't think that Melty as a character is more important than... Fairlock. And if Fairlock can be considered "main cast" then your theory would be already disproven.

Pinion will probably survive.

MrTerrorist
2013-05-28, 12:49
I'm not gonna be surprise if Ledo's action causes the death to almost all of the dissenting fleets.

Xellos-_^
2013-05-28, 12:58
The guy only wrote the first and last episodes yet you guys are blaming him for every bad thing happening in the series.:heh:
he did do the series composition through. The other writer are just filling in the details.

Casshern
2013-05-28, 18:41
I only picked this up because Urobuchi was involved tbh. The only thing keeping me interested is the anticipation that shit will hit the fan. Take away this anticipation and the story seems pretty bland to me when I try look at it objectively.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-28, 19:27
I only picked this up because Urobuchi was involved tbh.

You know, I think this is becoming a problem.
Urobuchi has become such an important name that just attaching it to an anime is an automatic sale boost.

This leads producers to ask him to join their projects even marginally so then they can overemphasize his contribution and sell the product as if it was entirely made by him.

Honestly it isn't realistic to think that Gen has suddenly become so active, and if you look carefully you'll notice that Gargantia is co-written by him and Kazuya Murata, who also happens to be the director.

Just by that you should already understand who has more influence on the whole product, but as a general rule of book marketing when something is co-written by a famous author and by a not so famous one, you should always assume that the latter did most of the job.

Triple_R
2013-05-28, 20:10
You know, I think this is becoming a problem.
Urobuchi has become such an important name that just attaching it to an anime is an automatic sale boost.

This leads producers to ask him to join their projects even marginally so then they can overemphasize his contribution and sell the product as if it was entirely made by him.

Honestly it isn't realistic to think that Gen has suddenly become so active,

This is Gen's resume of work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gen_Urobuchi), according to Wiki. I don't see any pattern of producers having him join their projects for "marginal" impact. In fact, Gargantia is only the sixth anime project he's been involved in.

Now, for point of comparison, here's Mari Okada's resume of work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mari_Okada), according to Wiki.

Considering that, there's nothing unrealistic about Gen's level of activity. His level of activity is actually pretty low compared to Mari Okada's.

Gen is writing the first episode, the last episode, and he is also handling series composition. This story is as much his baby as it is anybody's.

lightbringer
2013-05-30, 17:48
Well yeah but I don't think that Melty as a character is more important than... Fairlock. And if Fairlock can be considered "main cast" then your theory would be already disproven.

Pinion will probably survive.

I never considered Fairlock "main cast". He barely had any screentime. And he did not get butchered, he was old and obviously suffering from a chronic illness. It was not a surprise that he died, and they spent a whole episode on the funeral. Any number of the old geezer captains can die, as long as the main characters and their close friends are fine it should be OK.

Triple_R
2013-05-30, 18:49
I never considered Fairlock "main cast".

If Fairlock's not main cast, then neither is Melty. What has Melty done other than provide fanservice? :heh: Fairlock at least has had significant plot relevance, and that's before he died.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-30, 20:13
I never considered Fairlock "main cast". He barely had any screentime. And he did not get butchered, he was old and obviously suffering from a chronic illness. It was not a surprise that he died, and they spent a whole episode on the funeral. Any number of the old geezer captains can die, as long as the main characters and their close friends are fine it should be OK.

I don't consider him "main cast" either, but neither Melty is in my opinion.
In episode 6 I was pointing out how Saya and Melty didn't seem to have any other reason to exist apart from adding more meat for the fanservice.

I kinda changed my mind with Episode8 where Saya has a part in giving more depth to Amy's profile as one of her best friends. Perhaps this will be expanded further.

The choice of making Melty split from the trio still looks suspicious to me, and a lot of things suggest that something bad will happen to Flange's fleet.
So far Melty is little more than a background character, but she might have an important role if something will happen to her.

Breimoon
2013-05-31, 17:15
I don't consider him "main cast" either, but neither Melty is in my opinion.
In episode 6 I was pointing out how Saya and Melty didn't seem to have any other reason to exist apart from adding more meat for the fanservice.

I kinda changed my mind with Episode8 where Saya has a part in giving more depth to Amy's profile as one of her best friends. Perhaps this will be expanded further.

The choice of making Melty split from the trio still looks suspicious to me, and a lot of things suggest that something bad will happen to Flange's fleet.
So far Melty is little more than a background character, but she might have an important role if something will happen to her.

she will surely seduce the MC in amy's place :D

ReddyRedWolf
2013-06-02, 04:13
she will surely seduce the MC in amy's place :D

Amy is Ika-Musume while Melty is Nyarlko.:heh:

Jan-Poo
2013-06-02, 08:06
Amy is Ika-Musume

Do you understand the implications of that?!

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-06-02, 09:01
Do you understand the implications of that?!

I'm surprised there's not more fanart.

http://i.imgur.com/9bZ7wMc.jpg
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=36047694

mikeomni
2013-06-02, 10:43
I'm surprised there's not more fanart.

http://i.imgur.com/9bZ7wMc.jpg
http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=36047694

Watch episode 9 ...

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EXk2Z7H1MpA/UYc55U88SvI/AAAAAAADAmw/IWxVP3YSG1w/s1600/Suisei+no+Gargantia+-+05+-3.jpg
Hello ...
http://avvesione.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/shinryaku_ika_musume_season_2-02-ika_musume-friend-happy-peaceful.jpg
we're related de geso

Jan-Poo
2013-06-02, 10:48
We so need a crossover fanfiction with Ledo and Ika-Musume now.
It must end with the two getting married and raising their little hideauze children.

Funkatron
2013-06-02, 13:35
Speculation on the GA in light of the recent episode:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=4705958#post4705958

Okay, I don't think cloning is involved after watching episode 9: I think the eugenics approach of the GA was created to both combat the idea of genetic manipulation ala the Evolvers and to combat humans adapting to space.

It's been proven that space travel, especially long periods of it can have detrimental effects on humans. The Evolvers relied on genetic manipulation, becoming something beyond human. The rest of humanity, disgusted by what their fellow man had become, decided on eugenics. The war with the Hideauze/Evolvers serves two purposes: a way of annihilation against those who gave up their humanity and a way to sift the wheat. The weak die in battle and those who survive their 16th birthday are deemed the strong and allowed to procreate and create a stronger generation. Those born weak are disposed of and the cycle continues. Scary stuff

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-06-02, 17:15
On the bright side? (Bright side? Am I crazy?) We see Pinion's brother's Yunboro inside the building, and the final shot of the preview for Episode 10 looks like Pinion pouring out the contents of a flask, so at least maybe there's some resolution for one character's background event coming up.

duckroll
2013-06-02, 20:33
Hahahahahahahaha omg it turned out to be true! LOL.

Funkatron
2013-06-02, 21:04
So after this I don't see Ledo turning whalesquid hugger but he isn't going back to the GA either. I think he is going to end up living on the Gargantia with Amy, after of course dealing with whatever 'traitor' fail-safe Chamber has. Chamber has to have one, seeing how controlling the GA is. He's going to realize that Ledo no longer wants to fight for the cause and may label him and possibly the Gargantia fleet as traitors to humanity. If he has a protocol to deal with traitors, Ledo is in it deep.

mikeomni
2013-06-02, 21:16
Possible endings ...

1A) Reason whalesquids are sacred, they take the dead, process them and make new humans. Fairlock de geso returns to negotiate with Ledo. Ledo realizes this is the natural cycle of earth, being earthbound he deactivates Chamber and lives with the natives.

1B) Same as 1A but Chamber isn't completely under control. In order to protect the Gargantians and Whalesquids he reactivates the mass driver and launches himself with Chamber into space. They go to find the wormhole generator, with the excuse of returning to GA, set it to self destruct so it can't be reused. Ledo goes to his heroic demise taking all information on Earth with him.

1C) Ledo and chamber crashland back into the ocean. Ledo's body merges with a whalesquid, his likeness returns to Gargantia.

2) Ledo is conflicted. He decides against further interference and decides to back to cold sleep (Hikikomori) after reuniting with the Gargantians. Amy tries to talk him out of it ... life is precious ...yada yada. Chamber becomes UBG because he's for war. Ledo decides to become a whalesquid so he can fight Chamber. Everyone in Gargantia joins him. They win, they all live squiddly every after.

Funkatron
2013-06-02, 21:36
Possible endings ...

1A) Reason whalesquids are sacred, they take the dead, process them and make new humans. Fairlock de geso returns to negotiate with Ledo. Ledo realizes this is the natural cycle of earth, being earthbound he deactivates Chamber and lives with the natives.

1B) Same as 1A but Chamber isn't completely under control. In order to protect the Gargantians and Whalesquids he reactivates the mass driver and launches himself with Chamber into space. They go to find the wormhole generator, with the excuse of returning to GA, set it to self destruct so it can't be reused. Ledo goes to his heroic demise taking all information on Earth with him.

1C) Ledo and chamber crashland back into the ocean. Ledo's body merges with a whalesquid, his likeness returns to Gargantia.

2) Ledo is conflicted. He decides against further interference and decides to back to cold sleep (Hikikomori) after reuniting with the Gargantians. Amy tries to talk him out of it ... life is precious ...yada yada. Chamber becomes UBG because he's for war. Ledo decides to become a whalesquid so he can fight Chamber. Everyone in Gargantia joins him. They win, they all live squiddly every after.

I seriously doubt merging is still occuring:
1. The whalesquid can reproduce, as seen by those whalesquid eggs/embryos
2. Relying on people randomly falling into the ocean to create new whalesquid is inefficient
3. Whatever science created the symbiotes that fuse with humans, I seriously doubt they can bring someone back from the dead like you are suggesting. Fairlock was dead dead.

Jan-Poo
2013-06-02, 21:45
Moreover, do people actually want to become squids after their demise?
What kind of life do they even have? They don't even need to eat since the lightbugs provide their nourishment.

Ah whatever let's face it. There isn't a single sign of a whalesquid civilization. Everything that you can see in their nest is just stuff that humans created and that was left to itself to decay and rot. In who knows how many years they didn't produce a single thing and they didn't even care to fix or do maintenance to what already existed.

Hell the Yunboroid of Pinion's brother was just left there. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a human skeleton still inside.

These whalesquids are just beasts.

Nvis
2013-06-03, 01:03
Hell the Yunboroid of Pinion's brother was just left there. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a human skeleton still inside.


After looking at the data Ledo found, Pinion's brother probably became a Hideauze and gonna slap Pinion for being an idiot.

sky black swordman
2013-06-03, 02:09
^ If he did become a Hideauze, there is possibility he may be dead yet again. After all Ledo just kill every single Hideauze present at that location.

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-06-03, 13:05
If the series really is, at its core, a tale of young adults finding their way in the world and is meant to be positive, there has to be at least some bright spot in this for Ledo. Episode 9 has pretty much hammered home the idea that "Every part of the status quo in your world is going to suck somehow," between having people turned into squid people, killing thousands of those squid people, having your own government probably lying to you via omission, and having your AI companion stop listening to you and possibly able to fry your brain.

In that sense, just surviving is looking good!

The Ledo/Chamber confrontation would be the remaining part of breaking with his old ways, but if Chamber has at least even some attitude adjustment he would still function a character role as at least one positive representation of Ledo's past. I suppose it depends on how much the series wants to dump on parental figures.

Haruyasha
2013-06-03, 17:10
Reason whalesquids are sacred, they take the dead

Actually, I believe the reason they're considered sacred is because the Hideauze provide electricity. "Coexistence"

Casshern
2013-06-03, 17:24
I too think that they might be necessary to the ecosystem in some way, maybe with that green sparkly stuff they shed or possibly by preventing the earth from freezing again.

I'm just hoping we'll get a proper Urobucher ending with the Hideauze and Galactic Alliance utterly annihilating each other, while the Gargatians and whalesquid end up being the only survivors left of the 2 species.

Revan21
2013-06-06, 07:56
New image

http://i.imgur.com/RpzJ6av.jpg

So Colonel Kugel is returning?
I cannot make it out from the background but his unit might be lying on the ocean's floor too!

Jan-Poo
2013-06-06, 08:16
"kaeru basho e"

Doesn't that suggest that Ledo will return to the alliance?

Revan21
2013-06-06, 08:33
I'm thinking
Ledo is now disillusioned with the war but the returning Kugel will keep on pushing him into further conflicts that will eventually endanger the Gargantia and it's people. Ledo will probably choose to save them (and the squids too) by defeating Kugel in mecha vs mecha battle.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-06-06, 10:45
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/ReddyRedWolf/1370481284031_zps17b8697b.jpg (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/ReddyRedWolf/media/1370481284031_zps17b8697b.jpg.html)

Evolver influence?

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/ReddyRedWolf/1370481355381_zps6b767001.jpg (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/ReddyRedWolf/media/1370481355381_zps6b767001.jpg.html)

Gargantia was a Continental Union or Galactic Alliance offshoot all along?

LKK
2013-06-06, 11:27
My husband brought up the point that we don't know much about the Earth's peoples' history post-exodus. His speculation is that the fleet commanders know more than they're letting on. Clearly Ridget didn't know anything additional. But what if Fairlock knew more of the history than he told her? Building on that thought, I came up with the idea that when Ridget starts going through Fairlock's private records, she learns the rest of the story such as: What happened to the people (unionists & evolvers) who remained on earth? Why do the symbols in the fleet match the unionist symbols? Why do the festival costumes seem to mimic the whalesquids? There's more to know & I hope we learn it in the next episode.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-06-06, 15:05
Here is a theory Earth's wormhole gate still works. Some Drifters that broke off from the Alliance rediscovered it and integrated with the locals.

This is where the idea of combined fleets come from. As it emulates the combined colony fleets in space.

Iron Maw
2013-06-06, 15:50
New image

http://i.imgur.com/RpzJ6av.jpg

So Colonel Kugel is returning?
I cannot make it out from the background but his unit might be lying on the ocean's floor too!

Why do I have bad feeling about this? Oh well, I guess this means this show will end with a bang afterall. :heh:

Xion Valkyrie
2013-06-07, 20:51
Why do I have bad feeling about this? Oh well, I guess this means this show will end with a bang afterall. :heh:

There's a reason why Urobutcher is writing the last episode. :heh:

ReddyRedWolf
2013-06-09, 16:42
That water tower was a transmitter all along.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c111/ReddyRedWolf/Gargantiatransmitter_zps7917a969.jpg (http://s26.photobucket.com/user/ReddyRedWolf/media/Gargantiatransmitter_zps7917a969.jpg.html)

Jan-Poo
2013-06-09, 19:49
So if this whole story is meant to be a metaphor of a boy becoming an adult, then I guess that Chamber and Kugel represent Ledo's parents.

Ledo will probably confront them both and find a way for himself.


Chamber was invaluable for Ledo's growth, but to become an independent adult Ledo must separate from him.

Besides Chamber's path will never diverge from the annihilation of the Hideauze and Ledo will most likely end up deciding to try another way.

Though I prefer to think that this separation will happen in friendly terms. Chamber is a pretty cool character I find it hard to believe that he would attack Ledo (and if that happened would Ledo even have a chance?)

Kugel however is a lot harder to predict. I think it's very likely that he is bent on the annihilation of all the whalesquids. He probably doesn't know that they were originally human, but he probably wouldn't care.

Anyway next episode is going to be pretty interesting.