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View Full Version : Suisei no Gargantia - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll


Pellissier
2013-05-25, 06:32
Welcome to the discussion thread for Suisei no Gargantia, Episode 8.

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Renegade334
2013-05-26, 08:18
First part:

- Starts with fleet commander (Fearlock or smth - can't remember how the subbers romanized it) waking up on a gurney and entrusting a key to Ridget (essentially a transfer of power) before finally breathing his last
- Inside Gargantia, Chamber delivers a report to Ledo, who realizes he can't return (to space)
- Funeral starts with citizens bedecked in black accompanying his hearse, while others are moving across Gargantia ships (see end of previous episode and fleet secession)
- Twintails girl is apparently part of those who are moving away
- Funeral proceeds with fleet commander's body placed in a small lifeboat that is slowly but surely filled with sand by the citizens who come to pay their final respects
- Pinion finalizes his secession from Gargantia (he somewhat rubs it in Ridget's face)
- Amy sees Ledo but doesn't dare talk to him
- Ridget receives a visit from Bellows, who tries to lift her friend's spirits
- Bebel asks Amy about Ledo, but she still feels down about the entire conflict; breaks down
EDIT - second part:

- Ships are detaching from the Gargantia mother ships, moving away
- Ledo is performing maintenance on Chamber, honing his Machine Caliber's weapons (Chamber now has some sort of giant spear) - and Bebel (obviously compelled by Amy's tears) pays him a visit to try and change his mind
- Ledo gives one of the Hideauze fangs to Bebel, before reasserting his raison d'Ítre
- Funeral boat is about to be lowered in the water when Ridget arrives, wearing a dark cape - she drops her own fistful of sand on the deceased leader's body
- Funeral boat is dropped, sinks at the bottom of the ocean
- Ridget introduces herself as the new commander of Gargantia, requests the onlookers' assistance in her new duties
- After a moment of silence (Bellows almost had to intervene to get them to react), the citizens respond positively
- Ledo pays visit to Amy and Bebel - his final one
- Gargantia secession is now complete, with several ships moving away (Bellows and Amy on one side, Ledo and Pinion on the other)
EDIT bis - ep.09 preview:
- More Hideauze next ep, with BATTLES
- Pinion and Ledo look surprised. I suppose there were a few surprises in store for them
END picture:

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1508/1369574849790.th.jpg (http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/1508/1369574849790.jpg) http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6827/1369574955314.th.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/6827/1369574955314.jpg)

MisaoFan
2013-05-26, 08:35
I really teared up watching this episode. First of all, Fearock, the commander of Gargantia, died of heart attack, which causes the entire population to mourn over him, totally resting in peace. Then Ridget mentally sacrifices herself for Fearock by saying such superb words that she can overcome the problems by untying her hair, she looks awesome here. The Gargantian people aren't all that stupid, they are as flawed as ours, but they are much more intelligent since they are highly respected towards nature and ancient civilization. The only downside about the episode is that we don't see much Ledo/Amy conversations, but I'm surprised Bevel can walk despite his weak life status. The in-memoriam segment was great. As a whole, the story finally started to get serious, as expected from Urobuchi, but the only difference between Gargantia and the other works from the same author is that Gargantia proved to be less bloody and more serene in atmosphere. I'm looking forward to see another action-packed episode next week!

Shinhwa
2013-05-26, 12:28
I feel the tragedy is coming soon slowly...

andyjay729
2013-05-26, 12:34
You know things are getting serious when a lady lets her down.

bastek66
2013-05-26, 13:03
Now we must wait a week
http://i.imgur.com/KAfNG59l.jpg (http://imgur.com/KAfNG59)

Helius
2013-05-26, 13:08
Not much worth mentioning, really. But at least we now know the Alliance is in the same galaxy, some 6,000 light years away from Earth apparently.

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-05-26, 13:11
Not much worth mentioning, really. But at least we now know the Alliance is in the same galaxy, some 6,000 light years away from Earth apparently.

That at least Josses the time travel speculation.

ookamigirl
2013-05-26, 13:16
So Ledo is stuck on Earth.
The funeral part was as expected... sad and gloomy.
Seems like everything is falling apart.
The new commander's speech was rather nice.
I was surprised Ledo decided to leave.

hai_san
2013-05-26, 13:30
Very strong empathic ep this week. I dont think we can to categorize mecha as main theme anymore, SnG has so much deep. Ridget, Bellow, Pinion and Ledo, Amys, Bevel etc have so much interaction it was great. Since this serie is only 12/13 ep long? Ledo probably wont ever return to the his Galactic Alliance, since he is 6000 lightyears afar, and it is unlikely the Alliance will somehow return to earth. The main conflict could be with the earth Hideauze and conciliation/reunifications of the Gargantia fleet. But really i dont even know what to expect for the last remaining eps. The Story could go anywhere, but i hope for a very very good ending.

ps: for the next ep preview Ledo and Pinion seems to be surprise/shock ..

GDB
2013-05-26, 13:33
I really feel this series doesn't know what it wants to be. They spend all this time doing random stuff, and building up characters that they've now essentially discarded. There aren't many episodes left, and they haven't gotten anywhere, so they can't afford to split remaining time between Ledo and Gargantia. And given how prominent Amy is in the OP/ED, you know everything's going to have to come full circle and end up back at Gargantia.

They spent almost the entirety of the episode on the funeral, which was touching and nice to see, but they didn't really build this character up enough to make his funeral have that much impact that any other character wouldn't have also been able to do.

I guess, in short, I've lost faith in this series. I tried to hang on after it seemed they were finally going to move the plot along, but it's obvious to me now that Urobuchi needed more hands-on time with this project. First and last episodes are not enough.

Revolutionist
2013-05-26, 13:38
Why would the alliance not go to Earth if they're looking for a habitable planet?

edit: I guess this is irrelevant since Chamber's SOS will take 6500 years to reach the Alliance...

GDB
2013-05-26, 13:41
When they last left it, it was uninhabitable. They presume that to still be the case.

Shadow5YA
2013-05-26, 14:07
Who was the artist for the endcard of today's episode?

Kaoru Chujo
2013-05-26, 14:14
I haven't "lost faith" in this series, but I think a lot of GDB's criticisms hit the mark. The one thing I disagree with is that the show "doesn't know what it wants to be." It is a human drama, not a mecha show. It has just enough mecha to keep tantalizing mecha fans and keeping them around. Maybe.

In any case, much as I enjoyed this episode (mainly for Amy's controlled despair), it seems like it would have worked better in a 26-episode series than in a shorter one.

As for Pinion, I'm finding him totally loathsome. Selfish, nasty and stupid sums it up. I kind of hope he is the first to die, but only after realizing what a d*ck he has been.

Ridget was portrayed as too soft for my taste. If she is really the one to run Gargantia, she would have been more together and proactive in the crisis.

DuelGundam2099
2013-05-26, 14:19
I just watched the episode and it was.... Decent, but not interesting, at least in comparison to some previous episodes. I think they were trying to hard to make it depressing, but I suppose they needed to get out as much character development as they could before more good parts show up. I kind of liked the idea that Ledo is not fighting hideauze JUST to exterminate them anymore.

creb
2013-05-26, 14:33
Ridget simply suffers from Japanese anime culture that loves to portray women as needing help (though, to be fair, that humble humility is supposed to be a positive trait if I understand Japanese culture). I try not to judge too harshly, even if I'd never in a million years ever put such a person in a leadership role. Might make a good middle manager, but that's about it.

The series itself seems to have pacing issues, though I think it's becoming a bit clearer where the it's all going to come to a head.

It appears the Alliance won't be a factor, which I'm genuinely surprised about, which means no dances with the wolves climax, meaning the actual climax will be far more low key and almost certainly be a lovey-dovey affair with Ledo realizing he doesn't have to follow his mission and can live a normal life. Nothing wrong with that, but if they'd just shut Chamber down in the first 2-3 episodes, there'd be less false expectations on what to expect out of this series.

Pinion may be a cruddy human being, but I try to think about what life is like for these people, restricted to a flotilla their entire lives, with no modern conveniences, and then suddenly having something shake up that monotony with almost ungraspable power. This is a genuine chance to shake up the status quo and possibly jump start civilization's progress. It's just a shame that it's being catalyzed by one of the stupidest characters in the series, rather than say the council of captains.

With Ledo stuck on Earth, he's no longer a transient issue, and the captains seriously dropped the ball on not re-evaluating how they would deal with him and his god-like powers (they seem too content to hope he'll be gone soon and leave their world like how it was prior to his arrival).

All in all, this particular episode kept up the unfortunate glacial pacing, and while I fully expect a little more action as they attack the nest, I don't know that there will ever be enough to make it anything other than slice of life/drama.

I may have initially thought this was going to be this season's Shinsekai Yori, but I think I'm going to have largely forgotten about this anime within a year or two. It's not bad, but it's not particularly compelling either.

joshuafaramir
2013-05-26, 14:34
Meh... I know this episode was an important turning point, a crossroad, where people have to chose which way to go but somehow, it was boring. Ah well, now that we have this important but boring episode out of the way, on to some squid smashing, gun toting episode. Too bad the brown girls stayed behind.

Entravity
2013-05-26, 14:38
Not bad, but it's definitely not above average. I like the funeral scene when he got dumped into the water. Everything else is just okay though.

ginger02
2013-05-26, 14:56
I really loved this episode, especially Saaya. You could tell how sad she would be for Amy to leave, but she also understood Amy's feelings.

The music was fantastic in the episode, and I enjoyed little tidbits like Ridget untying her hair and the sunrise. The burial process was interesting too.The whole leaving your home alludes to, well when anyone has to leave their home, like students or families.

HandofFate
2013-05-26, 15:03
Somber episode. I liked the ritual with everyone scooping a handful of sand into the commander's coffin.
Not really see any problems with the series with its direction. Are people still fixated on uro being part of it and it not turning into any of the other projects he was on? Get over it.

Everyone splitting apart and going separate ways was a sudden and heavy development imo.
Surprised that the whalesquids turned out to actually be the same species as the spacewhales and not just lookalikes.

serenade_beta
2013-05-26, 15:04
That old man pretty much never showed the audience why he is so important. Sure, he's the captain, but other than giving a few orders, he hasn't shown himself to be that brilliant or anything. So it's hard to feel anything for his death, even if they spend an episode being dramatic and pouring sand on him.
And as far as I've seen, the new captain isn't that much better. But you know, it's anime. Though it's be amusing if her ship sank before the end of the series.

andyjay729
2013-05-26, 15:07
I haven't "lost faith" in this series, but I think a lot of GDB's criticisms hit the mark. The one thing I disagree with is that the show "doesn't know what it wants to be." It is a human drama, not a mecha show. It has just enough mecha to keep tantalizing mecha fans and keeping them around. Maybe.

In any case, much as I enjoyed this episode (mainly for Amy's controlled despair), it seems like it would have worked better in a 26-episode series than in a shorter one.

As for Pinion, I'm finding him totally loathsome. Selfish, nasty and stupid sums it up. I kind of hope he is the first to die, but only after realizing what a d*ck he has been.

Ridget was portrayed as too soft for my taste. If she is really the one to run Gargantia, she would have been more together and proactive in the crisis.

I definitely have to agree on how this show "doesn't know what it wants to be". That's what happens when you farm an idea out to a bunch of different people. That may work for an SOL or comedy show, but not for a single-story drama.

In an interview at Sakura-con, Gen said he often doesn't intend to write dark stories; they just turn out that way. To that I might say, do you have so little confidence in your ability to write happy stories that you'd just farm it all out? If you wanted Gargantia to be a happy story, you could've just pitched the idea to a single other writer, and then we could've at least had a more coherent show.

That said, this episode was okay. They handled the poignance pretty well, as well as the pressure being forced onto Ridget's shoulders. She's still something of a scared little girl at heart despite her stuffy exterior--which might not bode well for Gargantia.

Tranhieu
2013-05-26, 15:12
There wasn't much happened in this episode but it set quite a gloomy mood and personally I was absorbed in it. The funeral part was nicely done, but what drawn me in the most was the struggle all the characters had to go through, Ridget with her new responsibility, Ledo and his whalesquid exterminating mission (I still can't go along with this), Amy, Bevel, Pinion, Flange etc. All of them have their own stories and burdens to carry and at the end of the day we can't tell who was right or wrong.

What I found interesting are those huge cannons on the main ship. They seem to be out of order long ago but last time we saw such battleships was in WW2. Does that mean the people in Gargantia built their own home on a WW2 battle ship? Why not use an aircraft carrier instead since it has a whole lot more space?
And Amy even has a fridge at home, quite an advanced lifestyle I would say.

Reckoner
2013-05-26, 15:13
1 cour mecha series are rarely ever entirely satisfying and Gargantia may be no different. Had this been at least 2 cour, the commander and Ridgett's relationship could have been expanded upon and this probably would have been much more emotionally poignant. As it is, I only really care what was going on with Ledo and Bevel and Amy, seeing as that has been the only thing given any extensive focus at all in this series so far.

Still, it was a pretty good episode, but I can't help but feel Gargantia could have accomplished so much more if it just had the time. I don't think this will end in any sort of train wreck, nor do I think this show is directionless, but it's probably going to feel a bit sloppy down the road.

sikvod00
2013-05-26, 15:17
So what exactly is Pinion's role in this show? He's so much of an unsympathetic jackass that any attempt to show him in a positive light will almost certainly fail for me. =/

Helius
2013-05-26, 15:47
So what exactly is Pinion's role in this show? He's so much of an unsympathetic jackass that any attempt to show him in a positive light will almost certainly fail for me. =/

Well the previous ep alluded that Pinion had a brother who was killed by a whalesquid. So his bitterness can probably be explained by his failure to save him or that no help came to him when he needed it the most.

aohige
2013-05-26, 15:48
1 cour mecha series are rarely ever entirely satisfying and Gargantia may be no different. Had this been at least 2 cour, the commander and Ridgett's relationship could have been expanded upon and this probably would have been much more emotionally poignant. As it is, I only really care what was going on with Ledo and Bevel and Amy, seeing as that has been the only thing given any extensive focus at all in this series so far.


The episode felt like an episode of a 2+ cour anime, instead of a 1 cour one.
The pacing of the developments are so solw, I'm worried about the next five episodes. :heh:

I wouldn't bat an eye about this if this was a 26 episode series. :uhoh:

Kanon
2013-05-26, 16:09
There we have it: Ledo can't go back to the Galactic Alliance and the Alliance can't rescue him either. He's stuck on Earth for the rest of his life. He'll have to come to terms with this and learn how to live peacefully with the Gargantians. I stick to my prediction that he'll give up on his mission after finding out the Hideauze are not as belligerent as he was led to believe. I'm not expecting any kind of big climax. This show is a character driven slice-of-life with sci-fi elements. It's a bit disappointing they seemingly don't intend to expand on the Galactic Alliance in the anime. There's the novel for that, but it probably won't ever be translated.

This episode was the weakest of the series for me so far. They spend too much time mourning a character we barely knew, and I couldn't care less about Ridget and how she deals with her new responsibilities. Ledo is the character making this show for me, and he was barely present. Not saying it's a bad thing to develop secondary characters, I just don't like Ridget. I would have been more inclined to enjoy this episode if it had been about Bellows.

joshuafaramir
2013-05-26, 16:11
Boromir dying ang getting buried had much more impact than this old captain did. At least we get to see Ridget "put her hair down" so to speak.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 16:25
This was a quiet episode, and quite sad despite the fact that we hardly knew the Commander Fairlock. I have to say that of all the episodes, this was the only one where I have to say that everyone, in some capacity, was in the right.

Ridget is placed in command and she's not ready for it, but she matures through the episode and learns to rely on others in order to lead. Despite the fact that Amy and Bellows call the people who are leaving idiots and fools, I don't see what's wrong with them trying to do what they want to be happy? They have the right to pursue their own happiness elsewhere, they are not prisoners and therefore don't have to stay with Gargantia. Flange and the others don't seem in particular to be greedy or anything, they just either don't accept Ridget as the new leader, or they believe there is a future for them in finding Earth's lost technology. They are nothing wrong with that, they are allowed to chose their own path as human beings.

Yet, also, I can see why Gargantians also feel the way they do since they feel that they people leaving are foolhardy for wanting what is forbidden. They see it as suicide and are feeling abandoned, that's natural and all a part of change.

As for Amy and Bevel, both of them are sad to see Red leave. Amy I think is being a little immature as she doesn't even want to understand nor accept that despite the fact that Red can enjoy himself, he's still a soldier. And like all soldiers, he is willing to put himself in harm's way in order to protect her and the humans of Earth. However, it's okay for her to be immature because she's only a teenager and this is her first love. I think Bevel understands a bit more, but he's a kid and is not mature enough to understand what Red's been through.

And lastly there's Red who has found out that his SOS will never reach the Alliance and Chamber can't get there without help. He is stuck on Earth, maybe never to go home, and there is no one who in Gargantia who can understand or care about his plight. (I wanted to strangle Pinion this entire episode! Especially when he made light of the fact that Red can never go home. I hope a whalesquid Hideauze eats him!:mad:)
Nevertheless, like a good soldier, he is still willing to carry out his duty to take out the Earth Hideauze even if he knows that it will most likely be suicide. He is the only one who understands the Hideauze and he will not allow them to do to the people of Earth, what they did to the Galactic Alliance. He will fight them until the end.

I think this was a good episode and served to express the fact that change is on the horizon for everyone and that you can either accept it or get run over by it. Change will come whether you want it or not, whether you are ready for it or not.

I give this episode a 8/10.

Anh_Minh
2013-05-26, 16:29
Not much worth mentioning, really. But at least we now know the Alliance is in the same galaxy, some 6,000 light years away from Earth apparently.
Unless Chamber used an FTL mode of communication. Otherwise... what, he hoped Earth was just a few light-months away from the GA and they somehow missed it?


As for Pinion, I'm finding him totally loathsome. Selfish, nasty and stupid sums it up. I kind of hope he is the first to die, but only after realizing what a d*ck he has been.

He isn't nice, but...

My lifestyle and personality's probably closer to Bebel's than Pinion's or Ledo's: living for myself, staying home as much as possible... And like Bellows, I'm not above mocking adventurers who take stupid risks. But I have to admit that the world would be much poorer without those adventurers who took a chance on some stupid enterprise, the immense majority of whom died chasing rainbows.

And Pinion's right: what right does Ridget have to keep them with the fleet, to be preyed on by pirates, or pissing their pants everytime they come across a whalesquid? They want a better life. They'll reach for it. Maybe they'll all die in the process, but even so - once in a while, someone has to make that leap.


And lastly there's Red who has found out that his SOS will never reach the Alliance and Chamber can't get there without help. He is stuck on Earth, maybe never to go home, and there is no one who in Gargantia who can understand or care about his plight. (I wanted to strangle Pinion this entire episode! Especially when he made light of the fact that Red can never go home. I hope a whalesquid Hideauze eats him!:mad:)
He may have had an ulterior motive, but Pinion's made an effort to teach Ledo how to live on Gargantia. How to make a living, how to enjoy himself with good food... Telling not to worry about what he can't change and make the most of what he has is just more of the same. It's... pragmatic. Something that people from the GA can probably appreciate better than empty sentimentality.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 16:45
I just watched the episode and it was.... Decent, but not interesting, at least in comparison to some previous episodes. I think they were trying to hard to make it depressing, but I suppose they needed to get out as much character development as they could before more good parts show up. I kind of liked the idea that Ledo is not fighting hideauze JUST to exterminate them anymore.

I don't think it ever was just to exterminate them. In the Alliance, Red and the other soldiers are fighting to protect Avalon and themselves from the ultra-powerful, energy-devouring Hideauze who are destroying their ships and colonies and killing their people. That has always been his mission.
That mission has not changed. He is now protecting the human race of Earth so that they won't have face the same thing that the GA has had to face in its thousands of years among the stars.

There we have it: Ledo can't go back to the Galactic Alliance and the Alliance can't rescue him either. He's stuck on Earth for the rest of his life. He'll have to come to terms with this and learn how to live peacefully with the Gargantians.

I wouldn't count out the GA or Red going home too quickly. Chamber stated that he couldn't get them home by himself without help.

I think that either they will find something in the Hideauze nest that will help him get home, or a character from episode 1 might have followed him out there and be on Earth somewhere. Cmdr. Kugel, Red's CO has been listed as a supporting character for a while now, and I think that he might show up in this, since we never did see what happened to him.
Red must be faced with a choice of whether to stay on Earth or not. For him to just be resigned to it would be meaningless for his character arc.

andyjay729
2013-05-26, 16:52
Yeah, as douchy as Pinion can be, for some reason I just can't hate the guy. He reminds me a bit of Indiana Jones; he is mostly about the "fortune and glory", but on some level he also cares about his friends and wants to improve their lives, even if it is just through plunder. (And of course we all remember how many tombs and ruins Indy wantonly desecrated--as well as human remains.) Hopefully he'll have some kind of epiphany (or at least a "what have I done" moment) just before he gets eaten.

But yeah, I'm with others who say this really should've been a 26-episode series instead of just 13. And who knows, maybe it will be, and they're just keeping that well under wraps. The OAV's could just be there to do some sorely needed fleshing out of some elements.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 16:53
He may have had an ulterior motive, but Pinion's made an effort to teach Ledo how to live on Gargantia. How to make a living, how to enjoy himself with good food... Telling not to worry about what he can't change and make the most of what he has is just more of the same. It's... pragmatic. Something that people from the GA can probably appreciate better than empty sentimentality.

I would agree if he made an attempt to sound understanding, but he doesn't. How he acted along with what he said, was pretty much equivalent to him saying, "Wow, you can't go home....well, sucks to be you! Who cares, you'll be fine. Now about helping me..." :eyebrow:

Sympathy and understanding is different from empty sentimentality. Pinion doesn't care about Red but only what Red can give him. Even when he took him out to eat, he only wanted to convince Red to join his salvage team. Him coming to Red here, was for the same reason. Pinion is really out for no one by himself and his own vengeance.

Gundamx
2013-05-26, 17:02
That old man pretty much never showed the audience why he is so important. Sure, he's the captain, but other than giving a few orders, he hasn't shown himself to be that brilliant or anything. So it's hard to feel anything for his death, even if they spend an episode being dramatic and pouring sand on him.
And as far as I've seen, the new captain isn't that much better. But you know, it's anime. Though it's be amusing if her ship sank before the end of the series.

you can think of it like he was preparing her to lead before he die
(Like giving her more authority > dealing with ledo)

Kanon
2013-05-26, 17:30
I wouldn't count out the GA or Red going home too quickly. Chamber stated that he couldn't get them home by himself without help.

I think that either they will find something in the Hideauze nest that will help him get home, or a character from episode 1 might have followed him out there and be on Earth somewhere. Cmdr. Kugel, Red's CO has been listed as a supporting character for a while now, and I think that he might show up in this, since we never did see what happened to him.
Red must be faced with a choice of whether to stay on Earth or not. For him to just be resigned to it would be meaningless for his character arc.

You have a point. It would be more meaningful if he had to make a choice, but I disagree it would be meaningless if he was stuck. The show is addressed to young people who are about to or recently entered society. They're the same as Ledo: they suddenly end up in a relatively foreign environment, have to adapt to it and learn what living in society is about. They don't have the option to go back to their former lives.

What really matters is that Ledo embraces his new life. He doesn't necessarily need the option to go back in order to hammer that home to the viewers. He's already started to think for himself and realize life in the Alliance kind of sucks, since he is now fighting to protect Amy and Bebel's lifestyle. He doesn't want Gargantia to become another Galactic Alliance, and that in itself already says a lot.

Xion Valkyrie
2013-05-26, 18:04
How'd Chamber get that badass harpoon? Did Ledo make it himself?

Gravitas Free Zone
2013-05-26, 18:17
Ledo seems to be using his pistol to sharpen the harpoon at one point, so he at least had some hand in it.

I find myself not disliking Pinion mostly because of the Katsuyuki Konishi aspect. :D

Incidentally, hearing of Ridget's father "Chevron" reminded me of the peculiarities of how people got named on this series... Bevel, Bellows, Chevron, Flange, Pinion in the pointy hardware section, Ridget, Lukkage/Rackage, Melty (!) in the messed-up names section, Fairlock in the nautical-names-that-sound-like-shout-outs-to-other-shows section, and then plain old Amy and Joe.

LKK
2013-05-26, 18:31
I hope that when Ledo finally encounters the Hideauze nest, it's revealed that he's right and they are a near-term threat to the Gargantians. I know that would create all sorts of future problems for Earth's humans. But I feel sorry for Ledo. So far the Gargantians have won all their lifestyle disagreements and have said "I told you so" a whole lot. Just once, I'd like for Ledo to be able to say "I told you so" to them. :uhoh:

andyjay729
2013-05-26, 19:00
Ledo seems to be using his pistol to sharpen the harpoon at one point, so he at least had some hand in it.

I find myself not disliking Pinion mostly because of the Katsuyuki Konishi aspect. :D

Incidentally, hearing of Ridget's father "Chevron" reminded me of the peculiarities of how people got named on this series... Bevel, Bellows, Chevron, Flange, Pinion in the pointy hardware section, Ridget, Lukkage/Rackage, Melty (!) in the messed-up names section, Fairlock in the nautical-names-that-sound-like-shout-outs-to-other-shows section, and then plain old Amy and Joe.

Maybe they meant to call Melty "Melody" or something. But then, I've seen that word pop up in a lot of Engrish, like Minori Chihara's "Melty Tale Storage" and "Melty Blood".

yankky5
2013-05-26, 19:17
So much conflicting emotions this ep :/

LKK
2013-05-26, 19:25
I forgot to say this earlier. I'm impressed that this anime acknowledges the vast distances in space. So many science fiction stories, in anime and in other mediums, tend to gloss over the distance. 6000+ years for the SOS signal to reach the Galactic Alliance. My astronomy-interested heart jumped for joy at reading that line.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 19:48
You have a point. It would be more meaningful if he had to make a choice, but I disagree it would be meaningless if he was stuck. The show is addressed to young people who are about to or recently entered society. They're the same as Ledo: they suddenly end up in a relatively foreign environment, have to adapt to it and learn what living in society is about. They don't have the option to go back to their former lives.

What really matters is that Ledo embraces his new life. He doesn't necessarily need the option to go back in order to hammer that home to the viewers. He's already started to think for himself and realize life in the Alliance kind of sucks, since he is now fighting to protect Amy and Bebel's lifestyle. He doesn't want Gargantia to become another Galactic Alliance, and that in itself already says a lot.

I think he cares about Gargantia and it is a place that he's been able to find himself to a certain degree. However, I have to say that I don't see him thinking of the place as home. Not once has he ever really given a serious thought to staying. I also don't think he is in "love" with Amy as she is with him. I think he sees her more as a close friend and comrade. He cares for Gargantia and its inhabitants because they are his fellow human beings and they have become close to him. He wants to protect them even if it means giving his life.

Also, there the fact, that even if he did want to stay, I don't think Red's sense of duty would allow him to abandon the Alliance. He wouldn't leave his fellow soldiers and home in the GA to die to the space Hideauze. If given the choice and he would be able to go home, I think he would.

BoyTitan
2013-05-26, 20:12
A funeral to a character I barely know. Who notable actions I or no viewer can name, Who was a good leader to the viewer only because it was said he was why should I care.Who barely had any screen time ya ok let so make a whole episode about his funeral.

Crappy speech from a character who for most of the series was a stuck up are way is right yours is wrong ditch it peace loving hippie why should I care.

Also we had another five minutes of Amy and the girls talking about men because apparently all 15 year old girls in this series think about is reproducing,eat sleep reproduce that sounds real fun.

Only good thing is Ledo actually defended himself in a argument with the sick kid I wana be yoda instead of being dumb founded and having no response to anything he says.


This episode sucked this series is sucking I want my wasted braincells back. Uro can't character develop or create series to stir social arguments worth of crap.Stick to killing off cute stuff for shock value because so far psycho pass went from good to crap and this series is going from crap to crappier.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-26, 20:26
Well I actually came here to comment about another wonderful episode of this series, but I almost only read complaints so far. Wow! Well, I suppose I'm in the minority, but I'm really enjoying this series so far. Though judging from the poll I see a lot of 8s and 9s. It seems that those who actually enjoyed this episode preferred to just vote and say nothing.

Personally I think the pacing was a precise choice and not an error at all. I think that this episode was meant to provide a pause to make the characters and the watchers reflect. This is a turning point that preludes to many changes for the Gargantia and the story. This pause was necessary to create a reassessment of people's thoughts, objectives and roles.

Ledo was able to restate his determination with a cooler mind and I'm glad to see that he actually has a good reason to defeat the Hideauze and that he's not just driven by his hate or a desire to fight. Though he simply cannot conceive the possibility that what he knows about the Hideauze might not be truth or the whole truth. On the other side Bevel doesn't really have any good argument to prove that he is wrong. In the end he knows even less about the whalesquids than Ledo does.

It seems that Ledo reached the conclusion that a slashing weapon will be more effective to slay Hideauze in the depths of the ocean. It's funny how the old metal weapon can still have its uses for a hyperfuturistic robot capable of gravity control.

The fact that communicating with the alliance will take more than 6000 years is really very strange...

As it's been said it can only mean two things:

1) So much for subspace or quantum entanglement communication devices they are using the old styled radio signals. That means the Alliance is somewhere in the milky way. However if that was the case it simply didn't make any sense for Ledo or Chamber to expect an answer. They should have known that radio waves are slow as hell (astronomically speaking) and they are extremely inefficient for space communications. Stars are rarely closer than 2 or 3 light years. In the best possible scenario they couldn't expect a shorter waiting time.

2) They are using some kind of FTL communication system, but they are so far away from the alliance that it will still take 6k years to arrive. That would practically mean that the alliance is on a different galaxy entirely, which would make me wonder why did they need to go that far away. And it makes it even harder to understand how come they never found a single colonizable planet. Moreover Chamber said that to return home they need subspace travel, which means subspace travel would be fast enough, which in turns means that the communication system they use is significantly slower than subspace travel. This makes the option number 1 more likely to be true.

sky black swordman
2013-05-26, 20:27
I'm starting to find myself hating Pinion, not only is the guy planning on using Ledo and Chamber for profit and revenge (I'm assuming his brother was killed by a whalesquid) but he is now setting up Ledo to take the fall if Ledo fail to protect the ships that left the fleet from whalesquids'.

Endless Soul
2013-05-26, 20:43
I don't really get the hate that Fairlock is receiving on this thread. Yeah, I understand that we've only known him for 8 episodes, however, we only came in near the end of his life. The Gargantians have known him his entire life. Of course his funeral procession is a big deal to them. And you guys want to hate on fact that someone important to them has died and they want to spend some time to pay their respects?:eyebrow:

On another note, that's a pretty wicked lance/harpoon Ledo has created. I wonder how effective it will be. I guess we'll find out in the next episode.

Endless "Man the harpoons!" Soul

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 20:51
Well I actually came here to comment about another wonderful episode of this series, but I almost only read complaints so far. Wow! Well, I suppose I'm in the minority, but I'm really enjoying this series so far. Though judging from the poll I see a lot of 8s and 9s. It seems that those who actually enjoyed this episode preferred to just vote and say nothing.

Personally I think the pacing was a precise choice and not an error at all. I think that this episode was meant to provide a pause to make the characters and the watchers reflect. This is a turning point that preludes to many changes for the Gargantia and the story. This pause was necessary to create a reassessment of people's thoughts, objectives and roles.

Ledo was able to restate his determination with a cooler mind and I'm glad to see that he actually has a good reason to defeat the Hideauze and that he's not just driven by his hate or a desire to fight. Though he simply cannot conceive the possibility that what he knows about the Hideauze might not be truth or the whole truth. On the other side Bevel doesn't really have any good argument to prove that he is wrong. In the end he knows even less about the whalesquids than Ledo does.

It seems that Ledo reached the conclusion that a slashing weapon will be more effective to slay Hideauze in the depths of the ocean. It's funny how the old metal weapon can still have its uses for a hyperfuturistic robot capable of gravity control.

The fact that communicating with the alliance will take more than 6000 years is really very strange...

As it's been said it can only mean two things:

1) So much for subspace or quantum entanglement communication devices they are using the old styled radio signals. That means the Alliance is somewhere in the milky way. However if that was the case it simply didn't make any sense for Ledo or Chamber to expect an answer. They should have known that radio waves are slow as hell (astronomically speaking) and they are extremely inefficient for space communications. Stars are rarely closer than 2 or 3 light years. In the best possible scenario they couldn't expect a shorter waiting time.

2) They are using some kind of FTL communication system, but they are so far away from the alliance that it will still take 6k years to arrive. That would practically mean that the alliance is on a different galaxy entirely, which would make me wonder why did they need to go that far away. And it makes it even harder to understand how come they never found a single colonizable planet. Moreover Chamber said that to return home they need subspace travel, which means subspace travel would be fast enough, which in turns means that the communication system they use is significantly slower than subspace travel. This makes the option number 1 more likely to be true.

I liked the episode even if I do think that the series as a whole is lacking and slightly falling short of expectations. I think that they went off track with this show mid-series and now that they are now suddenly bringing the serious stuff now back to the forefront without any backing for it, the experience is jarring for most of the general audience.

As to the communication issue, Chamber sent that SOS signal himself six months before they were even found by Gargantia, so it wasn't sent using conventional radio. However it is stated that the Alliance IS in the Milky Way galaxy, however they are so far away (I think someone mentioned 6,000 light years), so far away that I'd say that it was more than the Alliance SOS beacon was made to transmit and thus it would take ~6500 earth years to reach them. The Alliance uses wormhole technology to travel around so the distance isn't that hard for them, but Chamber alone doesn't have that tech. We forget that as advanced as Chamber is, he's actually one of the many lower soldier mechs and so probably wasn't expected to need such tech.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-26, 20:54
Admitted Ridget is woefully not ready for the leadership she admits that and what is to come. She didn't ask Ledo how dangerous Hideauze can be.

Not listening to Ledo comes from her own youth and trying to maintain her image of a stable Gargatia.

Sorry but the band leader just died and the band broke.

While Bellows comments the others are fools she is too fatalistic. Much the same way her ship was pirated. Then it turns out the pirates aint just leaving with the loot they are going to harm your crew. In her own way Bellows is naive.

Thus we see two mindsets that split the fleet. One thinks fatalistically and is fine with stagnation , the other wants to advance and improve their lot in life even if it means to take risks.

Well for the former they have an untested chosen leader. People don't have much confidence on that.

Dark Wing
2013-05-26, 20:55
Judging by the comments here if this show ends the way I think it's going to end. Well I should mentally prepare for the rage posts....:heh:

andyjay729
2013-05-26, 20:56
I don't really get the hate that Fairlock is receiving on this thread. Yeah, I understand that we've only known him for 8 episodes, however, we only came in near the end of his life. The Gargantians have known him his entire life. Of course his funeral procession is a big deal to them. And you guys want to hate on fact that someone important to them has died and they want to spend some time to pay their respects?:eyebrow:

On another note, that's a pretty wicked lance/harpoon Ledo has created. I wonder how effective it will be. I guess we'll find out in the next episode.

Endless "Man the harpoons!" Soul

I think most people didn't hate him so much as think that he wasn't very well developed. Yes, I could understand his funeral being a big event, but I don't know if it had to be the main focus of this episode.

Personally I can cut some slack on this (I somewhat think the funeral was in the show's general spirit), but I think there should've been more foreshadowing to his heart troubles.

Dark Wing
2013-05-26, 21:03
I don't really get the hate that Fairlock is receiving on this thread. Yeah, I understand that we've only known him for 8 episodes, however, we only came in near the end of his life. The Gargantians have known him his entire life. Of course his funeral procession is a big deal to them. And you guys want to hate on fact that someone important to them has died and they want to spend some time to pay their respects?:eyebrow:

It's not that they're giving him hate. It's simply a case of lack of caring which I say a lot of people seen to have these days. :rolleyes:

Since the writers didn't get a chance to show him as a character they figure "oh well" but I feel that's more of the viewers not seeing the real value of him.

ThereminVox
2013-05-26, 21:25
Some excellent atmosphere in this episode as the inevitable confrontation looms just over the horizon. I really feel like the music has been one of the best characters in the entire show, and this week was another example of that.

It's good that we get the opportunity to get a better read on Ridget finally, but I kind of wish we'd gotten some of that before she was thrust into the leadership role. Something more substantial than her taste in swimwear, for example.

As usual, Amy, Bevel and Ledo are the ones that really shine, and it was good to hear all of their motivations firmly stated, even if they've been hinted at before.

For the second time, it's stated that Amy "can't live" without Bevel. I deeply fear for that poor kid's chances.

BoyTitan
2013-05-26, 21:29
I don't really get the hate that Fairlock is receiving on this thread. Yeah, I understand that we've only known him for 8 episodes, however, we only came in near the end of his life. The Gargantians have known him his entire life. Of course his funeral procession is a big deal to them. And you guys want to hate on fact that someone important to them has died and they want to spend some time to pay their respects?:eyebrow:

On another note, that's a pretty wicked lance/harpoon Ledo has created. I wonder how effective it will be. I guess we'll find out in the next episode.

Endless "Man the harpoons!" Soul

You are acting as if the characters are real it does not matter how a character views some one it matters how a character was presented to us the viewer and how we have came to know them.

Godard once said something along the lines of “It’s not where you take things from, it’s where you take them.” The bare bones of the plot is largely unimportant. What matters are the characters and what actions they take to resolve their problems. Essentially, if I knew who Fairlock or anyone else on the ship were, and could sympathize with them, I might give a shit. Unfortunately, their characterizations are flimsy and, as a result, their story could be anybody’s story.

The more fudged up thing is I copy and pasted gordards words from a blog for another anime why do animes continue to make the same mistake over and over and over again. Attack on titan that is how you make death meaningful every character has weight and development it is story telling not rocket sceince it should not be this hard.

Kaoru Chujo
2013-05-26, 21:31
Good comments this page. Thanks especially for the more positive comments.

So far, we haven't actually seen the Hideauze attack humans without first being attacked. I'm suspecting that the Hideauze are not a threat to humans, except in that they occupy places humans want to expand into.

Nor have we ever seen any indication that they can communicate with humans, or that they are intelligent, really. I look forward to at least learning something about them in the episodes to come.

CJ_Walker
2013-05-26, 21:45
I really feel this series doesn't know what it wants to be. They spend all this time doing random stuff, and building up characters that they've now essentially discarded. There aren't many episodes left, and they haven't gotten anywhere, so they can't afford to split remaining time between Ledo and Gargantia. And given how prominent Amy is in the OP/ED, you know everything's going to have to come full circle and end up back at Gargantia.

They spent almost the entirety of the episode on the funeral, which was touching and nice to see, but they didn't really build this character up enough to make his funeral have that much impact that any other character wouldn't have also been able to do.

I guess, in short, I've lost faith in this series. I tried to hang on after it seemed they were finally going to move the plot along, but it's obvious to me now that Urobuchi needed more hands-on time with this project. First and last episodes are not enough.

This sums it up right here. I did not think that the funeral would really last the whole damn episode. . .we only saw the guy like 4 or 5 times for like 5-6 minuets tops, all of that wasn't needed.

I'd be ok with it if this was a 24-26 ep series, but its like 12 or something like that, they are not going to finish the story/plot/tie up the lose ends in that amount of time without it being a trainwreck. The ball was dropped on this series and I no longer care about it anymore. This episode just put the nail in the coffin in it for me.

well, at least amy didn't tag along, and you KNOW pretty much everyone that left the gargantia is going to die except for ledo. . .for more predictable forced drama later, oh and we'll probably have to see the pirate queen get shoehorned in sometime later, probably as an ally against the giant Cthullu monsters(it would be really stupid if she was ANOTHER antagonist. . .who we don't care about at all).

Just sorely disappointed in this series, with GEN's name on it, pretty much about 65% of the way through this and the story is just way behind the amount of episodes this is.

I just should have dropped this mess of a show after the transvesite/fanservice episode.

Its crazy how episode 8's of different shows can be so different, ep 8 of attack on titan was the best of the year, maybe even the last couple of years. . .this show. . .no.

P.S. that last scene where Ridget let her hair down made me Cringe it was so bad/cliche.

TimeSkip
2013-05-26, 21:47
I like this episode - emotional conflics, uncertainty of the future when sudden changes hitting them hard. I'm glad that most votes are positive.

I've no problem with Fairlock's lacking screen time or backstory.

The funeral is not about how important Fairlock was, but rather how Gargantians are going to deal with his death and move on.

kyp275
2013-05-26, 22:03
I really feel this series doesn't know what it wants to be.

I wouldn't go that far, I'd say their problem is going at a 2-cour pace in a 1-cour show.

Ridget simply suffers from Japanese anime culture that loves to portray women as needing help (though, to be fair, that humble humility is supposed to be a positive trait if I understand Japanese culture)

Pretty sure the message it was trying to convey was gender-neutral.

Well, I suppose I'm in the minority, but I'm really enjoying this series so far.

*high-five*

The fact that communicating with the alliance will take more than 6000 years is really very strange...

As it's been said it can only mean two things:

1) So much for subspace or quantum entanglement communication devices they are using the old styled radio signals. That means the Alliance is somewhere in the milky way. However if that was the case it simply didn't make any sense for Ledo or Chamber to expect an answer. They should have known that radio waves are slow as hell (astronomically speaking) and they are extremely inefficient for space communications. Stars are rarely closer than 2 or 3 light years. In the best possible scenario they couldn't expect a shorter waiting time.

2) They are using some kind of FTL communication system, but they are so far away from the alliance that it will still take 6k years to arrive. That would practically mean that the alliance is on a different galaxy entirely, which would make me wonder why did they need to go that far away. And it makes it even harder to understand how come they never found a single colonizable planet. Moreover Chamber said that to return home they need subspace travel, which means subspace travel would be fast enough, which in turns means that the communication system they use is significantly slower than subspace travel. This makes the option number 1 more likely to be true.

QE communication would be instantaneous, so it's not that. Also, the Alliance did not display any "subspace" capability, either for travel or communication purposes. Their method of FTL travel so far seems to be wormhole dependent, which can explain why they've had a hard time finding planets - the wormholes they've found/used simply haven't led them to a habitable planet.

On the other hand, if the Alliance is capable of creating their own wormhole...

Jan-Poo
2013-05-26, 22:15
On the other hand, if the Alliance is capable of creating their own wormhole...

That's most likely that, else it would have been pointless for Kugel and Ledo to work hard to prevent the Hideauze from following them to a wormhole that would still remain there after they're gone. Moreover it wouldn't have made sense for Ledo to end on a completely different location.

Irenesharda
2013-05-26, 23:01
They DO create their own wormholes. They use it to get to the Hideauze nest in episode 1.

BoyTitan
2013-05-26, 23:44
I hope that when Ledo finally encounters the Hideauze nest, it's revealed that he's right and they are a near-term threat to the Gargantians. I know that would create all sorts of future problems for Earth's humans. But I feel sorry for Ledo. So far the Gargantians have won all their lifestyle disagreements and have said "I told you so" a whole lot. Just once, I'd like for Ledo to be able to say "I told you so" to them. :uhoh:


Its not they are right its that ledo can not present a argument at all he is terrible at it talked about this somewhere else and I said a easy cop out solution would have been for chamber to argue on his behalf. Were as most critics would bash ledo for not being able to counter argument and just stare in shock when some one questions him I am kinda ok with this even master chief is a man of little words with zero social skills but he has cortana to talk for him which is what chamber should be doing for Ledo I do not expect a child soldier to be good at arguing but having no one else or a A.I. to argue for him takes away from what the series coulda been in presenting its argument and just makes it fall flat.

Revolutionist
2013-05-26, 23:50
The scene where Ledo gives Bevel the Hideauze tooth was the highlight of the episode . It shows that there's more to his character than just "Hideauze? exterminating the target!". He isn't going to fight just for the glory of the alliance, or because he is programmed to, but rather because if the Hideauze do decide to attack humans on Earth, Gargantia will turn into another Gallactic Alliance where you are useless if you don't fight, like his brother. Wrong or not about the Hideauze, Ledo is being selfless.

Traece
2013-05-27, 00:55
At one point Ledo said that the Hideauze attack civilizations that are advanced enough to be perceived as a threat. This is backed up by their nest being located in a location that's supposed to have a treasure trove of technology, and Ledo being attacked by a Hideauze while coincidentally opening a container with something that looked fairly advanced inside. This also works with their method of avoiding being attacked by the Hideauze, going completely silent. If you think about it, the pieces really do fit together. What bothers me the most was that the tooth he pried out from his mech appeared to have done damage, when the mechanics of Gargantia and all their efforts were completely unable to.

As far as the funeral goes, even if he was a character with a set lifespan I did like him. He was the resolute, wise captain of the fleet whose purpose was to be the role model and the ultimate decision maker. Not too different in fact from the captain in Space Battleship Yamato. While he didn't get much screen time himself, the character was obviously a pretty interesting guy.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-27, 01:35
Its not they are right its that ledo can not present a argument at all he is terrible at it talked about this somewhere else and I said a easy cop out solution would have been for chamber to argue on his behalf. Were as most critics would bash ledo for not being able to counter argument and just stare in shock when some one questions him I am kinda ok with this even master chief is a man of little words with zero social skills but he has cortana to talk for him which is what chamber should be doing for Ledo I do not expect a child soldier to be good at arguing but having no one else or a A.I. to argue for him takes away from what the series coulda been in presenting its argument and just makes it fall flat.

Those that do get speechless and can't argue back to Ledo's reasoning are Amy and Bevel.

Ridget didn't even listen to what Ledo was even to say. Ridget herself is young and can't handle the pressure by herself.

If she was wise would listen to what Ledo has to say but no she left him in some corner.

Good if Amy and Bevel can relay this knowledge but as we've seen recently Ridget is out of touch with the rest of the fleet. Does she even remember assigning Amy as their liason?

BoyTitan
2013-05-27, 02:35
Those that do get speechless and can't argue back to Ledo's reasoning are Amy and Bevel.

Ridget didn't even listen to what Ledo was even to say. Ridget herself is young and can't handle the pressure by herself.

If she was wise would listen to what Ledo has to say but no she left him in some corner.

Good if Amy and Bevel can relay this knowledge but as we've seen recently Ridget is out of touch with the rest of the fleet. Does she even remember assigning Amy as their liason?

I was referring to Ledo dumbfounded Look when Bevel said what will the alliance do after fighting.

maplehurry
2013-05-27, 02:43
Judging by the comments here if this show ends the way I think it's going to end. Well I should mentally prepare for the rage posts....:heh:

My desired ending:

Ledo is finally convinced to give up hunting Hideuze. He lives a happy and peaceful life with Amy.

Epilogue: 100 years later. Human on earth become extinct.

BoyTitan
2013-05-27, 02:56
[QUOTE=HandofFate;4697862Are people still fixated on uro being part of it and it not turning into any of the other projects he was on? Get over it.

[/QUOTE]


Actually I am starting to insult Oru himself Fate is just people talking for hours and boom fight scenes, Madoka is just omg he killed cute stuff so much plot and story best anime ever you never see people die in shounens see that moe bashers we have so much depth and plot, Psyho Pass started off strong then became the we have to kill makishima show that is the most important thing to do is get petty revenge even tho sybil is fudged up and we don't have the balls to put up with the fall out a revolution would start so maki is evil. This show is lets not kill and hug trees peace loving crap.

if this series turns out bad every future anime Gen touches I will just avoid as if it were poison.

Kleeyook
2013-05-27, 03:52
I think that the concept of coexisting with the Hideauze is simply a huge fat lie people on Gargantia keep telling themselves when they have to stop all the engine and activities to be all silent when the Hideauze pass by them because they'll be annihilated if the Hideauze were to notice them.

They are just a bunch of annoying hypocrites who use firearms, the most effective killing tools in human history for self defence against the pirates. Guns are design to kill the enemies, not to simply save your ass! Also, they get angry when Ledo killed the pirates who were about to kill them... Everything Ledo does is wrong to them. They talk about their stupid ideals about peaceful coexistence with one another when they considered getting rid of Ledo when he first appeared. What a bunch of hypocrites!

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-27, 04:03
I was referring to Ledo dumbfounded Look when Bevel said what will the alliance do after fighting.

We'll he doesn't have an answer to that as Amy and Bevel do not have an answer when the Hideauze become a threat to humanity.

zztop
2013-05-27, 05:13
It's a bit disappointing they seemingly don't intend to expand on the Galactic Alliance in the anime. There's the novel for that, but it probably won't ever be translated.

If the novel won't be officially translated, then we should make our own translation! Surely someone out there wouldn't mind acquiring the novel for translating!:D

Even if they're not willing to translate, I'm sure they'd be willing to share plot details and spoilers from the novel for everyone's benefit!:D

kyp275
2013-05-27, 06:38
Fate is just people talking for hours and boom fight scenes, Madoka is just omg he killed cute stuff so much plot and story best anime ever you never see people die in shounens see that moe bashers we have so much depth and plot

Them's fighting words! :eyespin:

Jan-Poo
2013-05-27, 07:20
I think that the concept of coexisting with the Hideauze is simply a huge fat lie people on Gargantia keep telling themselves when they have to stop all the engine and activities to be all silent when the Hideauze pass by them because they'll be annihilated if the Hideauze were to notice them.

They are just a bunch of annoying hypocrites who use firearms, the most effective killing tools in human history for self defence against the pirates. Guns are design to kill the enemies, not to simply save your ass! Also, they get angry when Ledo killed the pirates who were about to kill them... Everything Ledo does is wrong to them. They talk about their stupid ideals about peaceful coexistence with one another when they considered getting rid of Ledo when he first appeared. What a bunch of hypocrites!

I don't really think that the whalesquids didn't notice the Gargantia, they have eyes, a lot of them actually. I think that Fairlock simply wanted to make the fleet look as much as harmless as possible.


While I don't quite agree with your general assessment there is however one thing that really strikes me as very odd and that's the fact that nobody cares to know what these Hideauze that Ledo fears so much are.

It's not like they can think that he's telling lies. He pilots a robot that is like a walking nuclear bomb. It was clearly designed to fight and exterminate, that much is undeniable. If it was me I would seriously worry about the kind of enemy that requires such a tremendous weapon to be fought.

This strikes me however as a plot flaw rather than a reason to despise the Gargantians. It seems that simply the writers didn't want the Gargantians to seriously worry about the Hideauze or to make Ledo tell too much about them.

The part where Ridget was questioning Ledo was abruptly interrupted with some kind of excuse and then nobody bothered to resume it.

It kind of bothers me because if Ledo actually told Ridget everything that he knows about the alliance and the Hideauze then the latter at that point should logically ask:

"So let me get this straight, there are literally thousands of yunboroids like yours in the alliance and those aren't even your strongest weapons. You kept fighting against those Hideauze with such a massive force to no avail. And yet... you want to start a war against them by yourself, and you think you can win?"


Also Pinion and Flange would probably reconsider their plans if they knew what kind of beasts they are going to mess with. Right now they really have no idea. They just think those are some kind of dangerous squids and they don't think they can ever threaten the super-yunboroid Chamber, when in reality Ledo already lost a lot of comrades that were piloting the same machine.

Iron Maw
2013-05-27, 07:25
6000 years till any contact with Alliance? I had thought when Chamber sent his distress signal it had FTL capabilities, but I guess not. Why even bother with an SOS system if's going to take that long?

Well anyway, the scene with Bebel/Bevel was quite nice as was the handling of Amy's frustration with Ledo's dogged determination to see the end of Hideauze. I also like how it cleared that Ledo isn't just going after them because for Alliance, but for the sake of Garagntia and importantly Amy and Bevel. He's talk with Bevel also shows he's well aware what kind of place GA had to become to fight those creatures and he rather not risk it happening here. Whether he's wrong or right about the threat in the end, at least nobody can say he was doing it just for his masters.

The main point of episode dealing with Fairlock's death and Ridget's struggles with his absence unfortunately didn't leave much in the way of impact with me on the otherhand. Neither character had much on screen interaction together to derive much depth out of the emotional bond their might have had. Fairlock himself had too little screentime despite his importance and Ridget hasn't done much earn a whole lot of sympathy. I'm not even sure how this episode furthers her development beyond becoming Fleet Commander since doesn't address her flaws (in particular her questionable treatment of Ledo and her control freak like nature). So I can't say this week worked for me on whole.

Hopefully next week will just start the rather sluggish plot and pace.

SeijiSensei
2013-05-27, 07:34
The funeral sequence gives us a chance to see Ridget make a variety of bad decisions in her first hours as Fleet Commander. She could have taken advantage of the situation to reinforce her new authority by directing the funeral events in a dignified manner. Instead she wants to engage the remaining command staff in a discussion of how to handle the fleet's separation. It seems rather forced, to be honest, given her adulation of the deceased Commander. I think we are supposed to see her unwillingness to don the funereal uniform as an symbol of how deeply she feels the loss. To put on the uniform confirms that the Commander has died. That she is unable to put aside her personal reaction and take command is a disturbing sign. Of course we end with the usual, rather hackneyed scene where she rallies the troops, and they all declare their troth.

I think she was ill-served by her senior staff. None of them suggested that they hold an immediate meeting to discuss what happens now that the Commander had died, and what to do about the division of Gargantia. Surely one of the staff members sympathetic to Ridget like the guy who said he was too old to serve as Commander could have taken her aside and given her some useful advice. Instead she comes across as so "rigid" that it takes Bellows of all people to suggest she learn how to delegate and rely on her advisors. None of this makes much sense from the perspective of an outside observer, except to confirm a patriarchal view of women in leadership roles, particularly the notion that women are "too emotional" to command effectively.

LKK
2013-05-27, 07:54
6000 years till any contact with Alliance? I had thought when Chamber sent his distress signal it had FTL capabilities, but I guess not. Why even bother with an SOS system if's going to take that long?
The SOS was sent months before Chamber deduced how far they were from the Alliance.

Iron Maw
2013-05-27, 08:09
Okay that makes more sense.

Jetzero Infinity
2013-05-27, 08:14
This week's ep was pretty downbeat but we got some great emotional material here. Felt pretty sorry for Ridget with all the stress she had to go through this ep. Can't be easy suddenly losing a loved one and then having to try to fill their shoes right away. At least things were looking up for her by the end. The Ledo/Amy thing also went pretty south. Not remotely surprised at the twist that Ledo can't return to the Alliance. If that were actually going to be a possibility he probably would have been able to contact them much earlier in the story. I'm also not that surprised it hasn't really swayed Ledo's motivation, as good as that probably would have been for him. It's nice to see that Ledo's got good intentions for wanting to fight the Whalesquid/Hideauze but it's becoming increasingly obvious he doesn't know what he's getting into and I'm really curious to see where that plotline will ultimately end up.

Hamster
2013-05-27, 08:42
I'm just waiting for the Urobuchi suffering and despair before the final bittersweet end.

Iron Maw
2013-05-27, 08:53
Well you may be waiting forever then. :p

Hamster
2013-05-27, 08:56
lol I don't know about that. I remember that comment by someone from the studio(i think) about the last episode.

It could be anything... but there is always hope.

andyjay729
2013-05-27, 09:00
I'm just waiting for the Urobuchi suffering and despair before the final bittersweet end.

I'll take any kind of ending, as long as it isn't forced or awkward. Since Gen's writing the last episode, part of me hopes he might actually make some effort and pull off a happy ending for once, but we probably shouldn't get our hopes up.

I still like the characters in this show and look forward to it each week, but I agree with parts of the bad reviews, and I do think this story could've been much better had it entirely been written by Gen or some other person, if he really doesn't have any confidence in writing less depressing stories.

Meanwhile, maybe in about 15 years or so Gen will write the entirety of Rebuild of Gargantia, so we can see what this series should've been.

FredFriendly
2013-05-27, 09:05
well, at least amy didn't tag along, and you KNOW pretty much everyone that left the gargantia is going to die except for ledo. . .

Are you and I the only ones thinking this? It seems to me that the majority of posters here believe that Ledo can annihilate the whole whalesquid population in one fell swoop with his mighty sword. It's obvious that he can't take them all on in one-on-one combat, as we have seen, since if one dies, a swarm will form. And then what? Does he really think he can take on a whole swarm all at once? By himself? That is, himself, Chamber, and his mighty sword?

And has he thought of the consequences? If a repeat of his first incident with a whalesquid happens, and a swarm comes after Ledo's new fleet, will Pinion and Co. power down the fleet so that the whalesquid swarm will leave them be? With Pinion in charge, what do you think? And what will happen then?

I might have been asleep at the keyboard, but I don't remember if it was ever demonstrated why the folks on Gargantia are so afraid of the whalesquid. There must have been at least one incident in the past where the whalesquids had devoured a whole fleet, or something to that effect, but I don't remember it being explicitly stated. There must have been something that led to the logical conclusion that powering down such a gigantic fleet as the Gargantia was the only option to withstanding an attack by the whalesquid.

aohige
2013-05-27, 10:30
I don't really get the hate that Fairlock is receiving on this thread. Yeah, I understand that we've only known him for 8 episodes, however, we only came in near the end of his life. The Gargantians have known him his entire life. Of course his funeral procession is a big deal to them. And you guys want to hate on fact that someone important to them has died and they want to spend some time to pay their respects?:eyebrow:


We haven't known him for eight episodes, he was hardly in ANY of it. :heh:
We only saw him occasionally speak a short blurb of authority or give nods. The show did pretty much zilch for the audience to warm up to him, or his sage ruling.

This isn't like say... Captain Okita of Space Cruiser Yamato dying, and passing his mantle off to one of the other main characters, because he was srs biznis for the audiences for much of the show.

For the audience to really feel emotional about death of Fairlock, it has to connect him to the viewers, not force them to imagine in shoes of the other fictional characters. Otherwise, why should they care?

Traece
2013-05-27, 11:57
This isn't like say... Captain Okita of Space Cruiser Yamato dying, and passing his mantle off to one of the other main characters, because he was srs biznis for the audiences for much of the show.
As I mentioned before, the Fairlock character was obviously inspired by Captain Okita. He's very much a certain kind of character, and in this case it's the old and wise captain.

Also, to be perfectly frank I never once felt that the funeral procession was intended to cause audience emotion. A lot of scenes in Suisei no Gargantia have been exposition for the traditions and the life of Gargantia. This was another such scene where I felt that the funeral procession was more of a look at how the Gargantians live, and their beliefs.

More so, I think Ridget's developments were primary here, and not the funeral itself. A fair amount of time in this episode was spent on her character's backstory being developed, and her personality being flushed out more.

aohige
2013-05-27, 12:08
As I mentioned before, the Fairlock character was obviously inspired by Captain Okita. He's very much a certain kind of character, and in this case it's the old and wise captain.

Also, to be perfectly frank I never once felt that the funeral procession was intended to cause audience emotion. A lot of scenes in Suisei no Gargantia have been exposition for the traditions and the life of Gargantia. This was another such scene where I felt that the funeral procession was more of a look at how the Gargantians live, and their beliefs.

More so, I think Ridget's developments were primary here, and not the funeral itself. A fair amount of time in this episode was spent on her character's backstory being developed, and her personality being flushed out more.

But my reply was to defend why the audience "doesn't give a hoot" about Farilock's passing. Which he went on to say some really off-the wall stuff like paying due respect to um, fictional character, whom we have had no connection to. :heh:

FlareKnight
2013-05-27, 14:36
I enjoyed the portions focusing on Ledo, Bevel, and Amy. Of course the funeral was a good way to see how that society responds to such a death. Not too surprised that they are putting sand or something like that in the boat with him since it's probably a pretty rare substance and thus worth sending with such a key person who is passing.

Did get some more depth on Ledo's view. Probably forced even more into a corner by realizing that backup isn't going to come and he's not going back. That makes him the only one who can do anything about the Hideauze here. At least trying to fashion some more effective weapons since beams just aren't going to get the job done underwater. If he doesn't do something than by the time the Alliance gets his distress signal all humans on that planet could be wiped out by the Hideauze.

Curious to see where this all goes since it's a pretty dramatic step to take at this point in the series.

Irenesharda
2013-05-27, 18:35
It kind of bothers me because if Ledo actually told Ridget everything that he knows about the alliance and the Hideauze then the latter at that point should logically ask:

"So let me get this straight, there are literally thousands of yunboroids like yours in the alliance and those aren't even your strongest weapons. You kept fighting against those Hideauze with such a massive force to no avail. And yet... you want to start a war against them by yourself, and you think you can win?"


That's actually what I like about Red in this episode. He fully knows that he's alone in this. He is the only human on Earth qualified to take on the Hideauze, and yet he also knows that he is still tremendously out of his league and outnumbered. But his resolve is so that he doesn't care. He will gladly go to his death if he can protect the humans of Gargantia and the Earth from the threat that they don't even realize is lying in wait.

Even if he can't destroy them all, he will do what he can against the Hideauze. But he doesn't expect that he will survive, which is why he didn't say he would return when Bevel asked him to come back for the flute. In fact he answered with a farewell that we've only seen used in this show for someone who's died. But he is okay with that, since his death will have meaning.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-27, 18:52
Well I'd concur that Ledo is simply selfless if we hadn't seen that there's a very big chance that the Hideauze will retaliate on the whole fleet.

He isn't going to risk his own life alone here. He's potentially dooming an entire human community if not worse. We don't quite know how far the Hideauze will go if a lot of them were to be killed.

Ledo himself said that the Hideauze are ignoring humans because they don't think that they are a threat, and now he is going to give them the wrong impression that they are, while it's really only him and his machine caliber.


So in a few words, if you risk your own life you are a hero, but if thousand of civilians might pay the price for your actions then you are just irresponsible.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-27, 19:32
Yet it is Flange, Pinion and the others decision to make.

When Ledo came he is a sign of what humans on Earth gave up.

Lost technology, the ability to say no to criminals raping and robbing you, no longer hiding in superstition to creatures of the depths.

The frustration of tucking their tails between their legs at the first sign of adversity is something festering within a fleet whose leadership always wants to play it safe.

A break was inevitable.

Iron Maw
2013-05-27, 19:46
Are you and I the only ones thinking this? It seems to me that the majority of posters here believe that Ledo can annihilate the whole whalesquid population in one fell swoop with his mighty sword. It's obvious that he can't take them all on in one-on-one combat, as we have seen, since if one dies, a swarm will form. And then what? Does he really think he can take on a whole swarm all at once? By himself? That is, himself, Chamber, and his mighty sword?

And has he thought of the consequences? If a repeat of his first incident with a whalesquid happens, and a swarm comes after Ledo's new fleet, will Pinion and Co. power down the fleet so that the whalesquid swarm will leave them be? With Pinion in charge, what do you think? And what will happen then?

I'm pretty sure Ledo and the rest are well aware of the possible consequences of this expedition given what they have seen and their knowledge of the Whitesquid. If not, then they truly are fools.


I might have been asleep at the keyboard, but I don't remember if it was ever demonstrated why the folks on Gargantia are so afraid of the whalesquid. There must have been at least one incident in the past where the whalesquids had devoured a whole fleet, or something to that effect, but I don't remember it being explicitly stated. There must have been something that led to the logical conclusion that powering down such a gigantic fleet as the Gargantia was the only option to withstanding an attack by the whalesquid.


Well since Fairlock is dead and nobody else seemed to know about this tactic, chances are we won't ever find out. =/

Triple_R
2013-05-28, 02:03
I thought this episode had very good character drama. I also think it did a helluva lot for Amy and her two friends. And while I like how Bevel isn't easily shaken, it was good to see him really fight hard (verbally) to try to convince Ledo to stay.

These conversations had wonderful nuance to me:

1) Pretty much any involving Ledo.

2) Pretty much any involving Amy and/or her two friends.

3) Any involving Ridget and Bellows.


I also very much liked Ridget's overall handling in this episode. I honestly think many viewers might be missing what the narrative is going for here.

Ridget is a reasonably sharp and decisive girl, but her weakness is in "reading the mood".

Ridget is very quick and right to realize "I must shore up my support as quickly as possible. This is necessary since my age and relative inexperience will bias many against me. I must seem cool, calm, collected, and decisive." That's all totally correct, and Ridget gets it immediately.

But Ridget has this interesting flaw that I'm starting to notice in a variety of different anime characters in different types of shows. It's a sort of prudent reliance on "doing things by the book", and wanting to appear smart, sharp, practical, respectable. But it's taken to an unhealthy extreme were certain emotional truths are lost sight of.

Other characters like this - Rossiu and his supporters in Gurren Lagann, Gino in Psycho-Pass, and Eri Ayase in Love Live!

The emotional truth Ridget lost sight of is that while it's important for her to shore up support as quickly as possible, it's most important for the crew to honor its recently deceased Fleet Commander. Ridget didn't get that the leader casting an image of decisive and efficient command isn't the only thing, or even the main thing, that Gargantia's crew is looking for in its Fleet Commander. They're looking for someone that connects to them.

And so Bellows smartly reminds Ridget that one of the most important things for a leader in her position is to delegate well - To know which people she can safely rely upon, and then to let those people do their thing. In my own experience, good leadership is more about shrewd decisions in delegation than it is about leaders' micro-managing everything.


As for the funeral itself, I'm of two minds on it.

On the one hand, it had this nicely cinematic feel to it. The way it was slowly sprinkled about almost the entire episode made me think of really important funerals in live-action movies and TV dramas. I think this episode did a great job of conveying just how much this Fleet Commander meant to his crew. Its not that we the viewers are intended to feel sad. Its that we're meant to get how big a deal this is for the Gargantia crew. The crew clearly loved this Fleet Commander, and I personally liked the "handfuls of sand" touch to this funeral procession.

On the other hand, I'm not sure this works as well in an anime episode as it does in a TV drama or a movie because anime episodes are shorter. In other words, it felt like the episode was totally dominated by the funeral. I can understand why some viewers may have grown tired of it, or bored by it.


So yeah, on the whole, this episode had very good and nicely subtle character drama. But I do have a sinking suspicion that Gargantia may be less than the sum of its parts once its all said and done. There's not that many episodes left for the presumptive major conflict of this anime. I feel like the ending will either be rushed (if the narrative chooses to be big, bold, ambitious) or that the ending will be a bit underwhelming.

Unknown Soldier
2013-05-28, 03:15
Why would the alliance not go to Earth if they're looking for a habitable planet?

This is the same problem I had with the Foundation saga. Even supposing it's tens of thousands of years in the future, how would spacefaring humans forget where their homeworld was? I mean, wouldn't any starmap made by the first spacefaring humans have a huge blinking blue dot that says EARTH on it? Ledo says as much, for the people of the Allliance, the Earth is just a legend to them. It doesn't make any sense. It's the HOMEWORLD OF THE HUMAN RACE! It's the POINT OF ORIGIN FOR ALL YOUR STARMAPS! :heh:

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-28, 05:08
All objects in space moves, space itself moves , the moment light reaches your location it might not be there anymore.

Really it ain't as if Sol and Earth are static.

Unknown Soldier
2013-05-28, 05:20
No, but on a galactic starmap they might as well be relative to humanity. Sol completes one orbit around the center of the Milky Way galaxy every ~200 million Earth years. As far as Sol is concerned, it is not moving relative to the galaxy in any measurable human timeframe.

Furthermore, even if we assume this is millions of years in the future, it's true that Sol would have moved a certain distance from when humans left Earth. But I find it entirely unfathomable that a humanity which can traverse through wormholes to achieve FTL travel doesn't have computers which could calculate the exact position of the most important planet for humanity even after 10 million years of Sol's orbit around the center of the Milky Way. The AI called "Chamber" was able to determine the Earth's exact position in the galaxy relative to the last known location of the Alliance fleet simply by taking recordings of the stars visible from the Earth and other measurements of radiation, EM field, etc.. There's no way the computers used by the fleet carriers, which can calculate the exact vectors and trajectory to traverse a wormhole, would not be able to pinpoint Earth's exact location instantly and also calculate a route there by FTL drive through the nearest wormhole.

Paranoid Android
2013-05-28, 06:51
Maybe they didn't want to find Earth and never calculated it's position after they abandoned it. The alliance seems only interested in annihilation of every species in the universe. It's against their ideologies to co-exist with anything. And in all fights we've seen, space humans initiated combat with Hideusass and they retaliated as defense.

Anh_Minh
2013-05-28, 07:01
Maybe they didn't want to find Earth and never calculated it's position after they abandoned it. The alliance seems only interested in annihilation of every species in the universe. It's against their ideologies to co-exist with anything. And in all fights we've seen, space humans initiated combat with Hideusass and they retaliated as defense.

- We've only seen one alien race, which we aren't sure are sapient, or alien.
- We've only seen one battle as part of a larger war, of which we know little.

We don't have nearly enough data to draw that kind of conclusion regarding the GA's "philosophy".

Jan-Poo
2013-05-28, 07:19
Well "co-existence" and "co-prosperity" are canonically terms that aren't in their vocabulary. But that doesn't mean that they want to "annihilate" any species in the universe.

They are probably not against the idea of dominating them like every other animal.

I'm pretty sure Ledo and the rest are well aware of the possible consequences of this expedition given what they have seen and their knowledge of the Whitesquid. If not, then they truly are fools.

I'm pretty sure Pinion is a fool. Spreading word that Chamber is invincible and that he will kill all the whalesquids without actually knowing a thing about the Hideauze nor even caring to ask is retarded beyond belief.

andyjay729
2013-05-28, 07:29
So yeah, on the whole, this episode had very good and nicely subtle character drama. But I do have a sinking suspicion that Gargantia may be less than the sum of its parts once its all said and done. There's not that many episodes left for the presumptive major conflict of this anime. I feel like the ending will either be rushed (if the narrative chooses to be big, bold, ambitious) or that the ending will be a bit underwhelming.

That's pretty much my fears too. I know Gen's involvement in this show has been minimal, but I once said that I think pacing is one of his weaknesses. Does anyone else think Madoka and this show should've been at least 24 episodes and PP should've been 12 or 13?

Anh_Minh
2013-05-28, 07:40
Well "co-existence" and "co-prosperity" are canonically terms that aren't in their vocabulary. But that doesn't mean that they want to "annihilate" any species in the universe.

Part of Chamber's first explanation of the Hideauze was that coexistence with them was impossible. So, yeah, I don't know what that vocabulary mishap later was about.

LKK
2013-05-28, 08:02
This is the same problem I had with the Foundation saga. Even supposing it's tens of thousands of years in the future, how would spacefaring humans forget where their homeworld was? I mean, wouldn't any starmap made by the first spacefaring humans have a huge blinking blue dot that says EARTH on it? Ledo says as much, for the people of the Allliance, the Earth is just a legend to them. It doesn't make any sense. It's the HOMEWORLD OF THE HUMAN RACE! It's the POINT OF ORIGIN FOR ALL YOUR STARMAPS! :heh:
I mentioned this idea in one of the secondary threads. Perhaps Ledo and his fellow soldiers have been lied to about the Alliance not knowing about Earth's location and Chamber has been programmed without that information.

Remember, Ledo is a soldier who's not even a full citizen in the Alliance. Chamber is an information storage unit among other things. Would you send these two and their compatriots into battle with knowledge of where your homeworld is located if you didn't have to? What if they're captured and that knowledge is extracted by your enemy? You've just condemned your homeworld. Better to raise your soldier whom you've had since birth to believe that the homeworld's location has been lost. Better to not program the homeworld's location in your AI's star map. In other words, don't give your soldiers any information that may be used against you beyond what is necessary for them to conduct your war.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-28, 08:07
Part of Chamber's first explanation of the Hideauze was that coexistence with them was impossible. So, yeah, I don't know what that vocabulary mishap later was about.

And of course it's absolutely impossible that the writers made an error in that early episode by making Chamber use the wrong word. The error must be in the plot relevant explanation that happened later, right?

I mentioned this idea in one of the secondary threads. Perhaps Ledo and his fellow soldiers have been lied to about the Alliance not knowing about Earth's location and Chamber has been programmed without that information.

Remember, Ledo is a soldier who's not even a full citizen in the Alliance. Chamber is an information storage unit among other things. Would you send these two and their compatriots into battle with knowledge of where your homeworld is located if you didn't have to? What if they're captured and that knowledge is extracted by your enemy? You've just condemned your homeworld. Better to raise your soldier whom you've had since birth to believe that the homeworld's location has been lost. Better to not program the homeworld's location in your AI's star map. In other words, don't give your soldiers any information that may be used against you beyond what is necessary for them to conduct your war.

Wait, that doesn't make sense. Do you think that the Machine Calibers don't have information about Avalon and its location? We know they do, and that's what's actually important to them rather than a forgotten planet.

Anh_Minh
2013-05-28, 08:15
And of course it's absolutely impossible that the writers made an error in that early episode by making Chamber use the wrong word. The error must be in the plot relevant explanation that happened later, right?

I don't know why you're so determined to cast the GA as irredeemable bad guys who do things for the evulz, but whatever.

I think the ideas behind those explanations aren't contradictory. They've determined that the Hideauze have to go, or they do. And as for the inter-human relations... They have so little margin, the idea of not coexisting and cooperating hardly comes up.

andyjay729
2013-05-28, 08:16
I mentioned this idea in one of the secondary threads. Perhaps Ledo and his fellow soldiers have been lied to about the Alliance not knowing about Earth's location and Chamber has been programmed without that information.

Remember, Ledo is a soldier who's not even a full citizen in the Alliance. Chamber is an information storage unit among other things. Would you send these two and their compatriots into battle with knowledge of where your homeworld is located if you didn't have to? What if they're captured and that knowledge is extracted by your enemy? You've just condemned your homeworld. Better to raise your soldier whom you've had since birth to believe that the homeworld's location has been lost. Better to not program the homeworld's location in your AI's star map. In other words, don't give your soldiers any information that may be used against you beyond what is necessary for them to conduct your war.

I think that's something everyone needs to recall before repeating that Ledo knows so much more about the squids than the Gargantians and they're all pacifist hippie fools for doubting him. (Bolding mine.)

Not that I disagree with those people saying the Avatar/Pocahontas/Dances with Wolves route has been done a trillion and one times before and in better fashion. But given the amount of control the Alliance has over him and how Ledo's been indoctrinated by them literally from day one, I don't think it's wise to take his core beliefs at face value.

For that matter, it doesn't need to have the Alliance be EEEVUL per se, but instead, well, like Kyubey. (Like I've been saying, Gen doesn't seem to have the highest opinion of utilitarianism.) Perhaps the squids were some sort of lab mutation gone awry (maybe the clean up pollution on Earth or something), and so the Alliance is trying to clean up a mess. Think of them as like the EPA fighting Godzilla, heh.

aohige
2013-05-28, 08:23
Part of Chamber's first explanation of the Hideauze was that coexistence with them was impossible. So, yeah, I don't know what that vocabulary mishap later was about.

Blame the translator.
The latter word "co-existing, co-prosperity" is a single word that's a combination of both meanings.
(共存共栄 instead of 共存 & 共栄)

And of course it's absolutely impossible that the writers made an error in that early episode by making Chamber use the wrong word. The error must be in the plot relevant explanation that happened later, right?

They did not. (points above)

LKK
2013-05-28, 08:25
Wait, that doesn't make sense. Do you think that the Machine Calibers don't have information about Avalon and its location? We know they do, and that's what's actually important to them rather than a forgotten planet.
Do we know that the Machine Calibers know where Avalon is located? They know where their home base is located in order to know where to return to after a mission. But do they know where Avalon itself is? If Ledo had been able to go to Avalon like he was supposed to, would Chamber be his transport vehicle (a waste of Machine Caliber resources in my opinion) or would he travel in another vehicle from the base to Avalon?

Also, although I haven't said this anywhere yet, I'm not convinced that Avalon exists. I don't trust anything Ledo or Chamber have said about the Alliance, its current situation, or its history. I'm not going to believe what a soldier indoctrinated since birth or a computer programmed by that soldier's superiors says until their statements have been independently verified. The source of their information is too untrustworthy at this point.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-28, 08:33
I don't know why you're so determined to cast the GA as irredeemable bad guys who do things for the evulz, but whatever.


If that was true I would have agreed with Paranoid Android that the alliance wants to annihilate everything, and I didn't.

Why don't you try to look at the situation objectively rather than assuming that everyone else is biased?

There must be a reason if "co-prosperity through co-existence" (thanks Aohige) was explained to be an alien concept to the Alliance. I think it's not just me if I say that the writers wanted to tell us something with that.

Do we know that the Machine Calibers know where Avalon is located?

Well... the first sequence of the first episode shows us a lot of information about Avalon with details on its structure and so on, and that wasn't just for the sake of the audience it was actually something that was shown to Ledo by Chamber. I would be really surprised if the location wasn't included, at any rate that's still information that could be used by the enemy.

But in the first place if the alliance worried about that, it would mean that they recognize that the Hideauze are sentient beings.

Anh_Minh
2013-05-28, 11:06
For that matter, it doesn't need to have the Alliance be EEEVUL per se, but instead, well, like Kyubey. (Like I've been saying, Gen doesn't seem to have the highest opinion of utilitarianism.) Perhaps the squids were some sort of lab mutation gone awry (maybe the clean up pollution on Earth or something), and so the Alliance is trying to clean up a mess. Think of them as like the EPA fighting Godzilla, heh.

Which changes absolutely nothing to the present situation. A lot of people have been focused on how it started, or rather, who started it. They want a culprit. I think it doesn't matter. "Co-existence is impossible". That's the basis on the GA's policy regarding the Hideauze. It's about the present, not the past. Maybe it's the truth, maybe it isn't, maybe the brass actually believes that, maybe they don't, but that's what has to be examined. Where the Hideauze come from, whether the humans are the original aggressors or not... they're not practical concerns.

If that was true I would have agreed with Paranoid Android that the alliance wants to annihilate everything, and I didn't.

Why don't you try to look at the situation objectively rather than assuming that everyone else is biased?
Well, objectively, Ledo and Chamber, pure products of the GA that they are, aren't that bloody-minded. They don't hold back when they have a clearly defined enemy, but they don't go out of their way to exterminate whoever's the least bit different from them. So, yeah, I do have a problem seeing them, or the GA, as some kind of space nazis, despite the terrible choices Ledo says they've had to make.


There must be a reason if "co-prosperity through co-existence" (thanks Aohige) was explained to be an alien concept to the Alliance. I think it's not just me if I say that the writers wanted to tell us something with that.

But that's not the only thing they find alien. Ledo also doesn't "get" the mercantilism of the Gargantians. Or the inter-human fighting. To him, humanity must stand together, and largely does. And people do what needs doing because it needs doing (rather desperately, in general), not because they'll get petty baubles out of it. In a context like that, is it surprising that "co-prosperity through co-existence" is unknown?

Or yes, maybe it's another story out to present science and industrialisation as terrible things that must be shunned. We must embrace nature, even those bits of it that are the ebola virus. And giving our money to pirates is totally the way to get them to renounce their ways and become productive members of society.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-28, 12:35
Well, objectively, Ledo and Chamber, pure products of the GA that they are, aren't that bloody-minded. They don't hold back when they have a clearly defined enemy, but they don't go out of their way to exterminate whoever's the least bit different from them. So, yeah, I do have a problem seeing them, or the GA, as some kind of space nazis, despite the terrible choices Ledo says they've had to make.

Like I said, I don't think that they are bloodthirsty exterminators, but I do think that we have enough evidence to conclude that they don't see any value in co-existing with anyone that is different from them.

Apart from the lack of a term that explains the concept, we have many other hints. Like the fact that Chamber and Ledo automatically wanted the Gargantians to "join" the alliance, to which they reacted pretty badly, to the surprise of the formers.

And yes they do have a Nazi mentality, a Nazi mentality isn't just "exterminate the jews". Perhaps you should watch "the wave" if you didn't already, as it explains it very well.

For example the alliance doesn't recognize the sovereignty of other human factions, it's either them or "wanderers", which Ledo doesn't seem to hold in any particular regard.

The concept of inter-human fighting isn't alien to them and Ledo has absolutely no qualms about annihilating an entire human faction if he deems it necessary.

Xellos-_^
2013-05-28, 13:52
i really just hope this show doesn't devolve into another preach "can't we all just get along" show.

Paranoid Android
2013-05-28, 14:32
i really just hope this show doesn't devolve into another preach "can't we all just get along" show.

I wonder if Chamber will go bat-shit crazy if that happens.

CJ_Walker
2013-05-28, 21:05
Are you and I the only ones thinking this?

Pretty much. but at this point in the show episode 8 out of 12-13(?) compared to where the plot is now (at about episode 5 in terms of a 24-26 episode series) at this point it just doesn't even matter, I know this is already going to end bad. . .well its been bad but I mean worse than it has been. there's so many important plot threads to go down that the show doesn't have the time to go down that I just don't care about it anymore.

Gen should have been writing all episodes of this show. It would be a lot more coherent, but instead it just looks like a money grab, using gen's name and putting two eps of fanservice, combined with a FULL EPISODE of the funeral. that's like 3 episodes out of 13 wasted. The little character development that happened in 13 could have been done in a lot less time with only a 3-5 minute focus on the funeral. I have NEVER seen a funeral seen last a whole episode. ever.

andyjay729
2013-05-28, 22:51
Say what you will about /a/, there are some people who say some intelligent there once in a while. Recently one guy compared Pinion with Captain Ahab. Do you think that sounds fitting?

And I seriously have to wonder if there'll be some Lovecraft homages later on. (Hey, even Disney's Little Mermaid had its ending lifted directly from Call of Cthulhu.)

Iron Maw
2013-05-28, 23:04
After rewatching the episode a second time under a different mindset, I think I'm appreciating a bit better now.

Pretty much. but at this point in the show episode 8 out of 12-13(?) compared to where the plot is now (at about episode 5 in terms of a 24-26 episode series) at this point it just doesn't even matter, I know this is already going to end bad. . .well its been bad but I mean worse than it has been. there's so many important plot threads to go down that the show doesn't have the time to go down that I just don't care about it anymore.

I don't think this show has all that many plot threads. The Alliance and Hideauze are pretty much the biggest mysteries here and the former doesn't look like it will even factor if what Chamber says is true. So in reality it's just the Hideauze stuff and we're about to deal with that in couple of weeks.

However this could end up sadly anticlimactic if turns out this was all humanity fault and the are Hideauze held as saints or whatever.


Gen should have been writing all episodes of this show. It would be a lot more coherent, but instead it just looks like a money grab, using gen's name and putting two eps of fanservice, combined with a FULL EPISODE of the funeral. that's like 3 episodes out of 13 wasted. The little character development that happened in 13 could have been done in a lot less time with only a 3-5 minute focus on the funeral. I have NEVER seen a funeral seen last a whole episode. ever.


Man how many times does this have get brought up in these threads? Gen is in charge of Series Composition, in otherwords the Chief Writer. This is all his idea from a scripting standpoint, so your not going to like anymore if he were writing the individual episodes directly. I do kinda agree with your second point though, the pacing of this series has been very odd, but only ep 5 was really a waste. 6 and 8 at least had plot and character development in some ways. 5 was just silly and could have been used to build Fairlock and Ridget's relationship as well giving him some proper screentime instead focusing on fanservice. It certainly would helped in providing a stronger emotional effect for Fairlock's passing.

Cosmic Eagle
2013-05-28, 23:29
Are you and I the only ones thinking this? It seems to me that the majority of posters here believe that Ledo can annihilate the whole whalesquid population in one fell swoop with his mighty sword. It's obvious that he can't take them all on in one-on-one combat, as we have seen, since if one dies, a swarm will form. And then what? Does he really think he can take on a whole swarm all at once? By himself? That is, himself, Chamber, and his mighty sword?

And has he thought of the consequences? If a repeat of his first incident with a whalesquid happens, and a swarm comes after Ledo's new fleet, will Pinion and Co. power down the fleet so that the whalesquid swarm will leave them be? With Pinion in charge, what do you think? And what will happen then?

I might have been asleep at the keyboard, but I don't remember if it was ever demonstrated why the folks on Gargantia are so afraid of the whalesquid. There must have been at least one incident in the past where the whalesquids had devoured a whole fleet, or something to that effect, but I don't remember it being explicitly stated. There must have been something that led to the logical conclusion that powering down such a gigantic fleet as the Gargantia was the only option to withstanding an attack by the whalesquid.

Considering Hideauze are a galactic level threat....

Unknown Soldier
2013-05-28, 23:51
Seeing as how Chamber has already confirmed the DNA of the Whalesquids is identical to the DNA of the Space Squids, it's pretty obvious that humans created the Hideous. For what reason is unknown, but now they are waging a total Starship Troopers type warfare to exterminate them. Maybe the humans are just trying to clean up the mess they made? If they created the Hideous on Earth, brought them into space, accidentally allowed them to escape, multiply, and begin consuming the galaxy, they would have no choice but to try to exterminate them. Otherwise humanity is doomed wherever they are, in space or on the Earth.

It's questionable though why the Hideous on Earth seem content to leave the humans on the surface of the world ocean alone though, if they are aggressively encroaching and invading human territory in space as is explained at the beginning.

ReddyRedWolf
2013-05-29, 03:50
It's questionable though why the Hideous on Earth seem content to leave the humans on the surface of the world ocean alone though, if they are aggressively encroaching and invading human territory in space as is explained at the beginning.

It boils down to energy. Gargantia don't produce energy themselves but merely recharges their batteries.

But if say they rediscover say nuclear power they'll be attacked as Hideauze are energy feeders.

Already they share a habitat in Sea Galaxy nanomachines.

Gargantians act like people in bear country. Don't spook the bears.

Avalon and its colonies are suburbia... They shoot bears.

mikeomni
2013-05-29, 06:38
Until the end comes, it's hard to see what the strategy was for writing this series. They start strong with Gen writing episode 1 then plan to end it with him as well. Feels a bit bait & switch where they try to cater to everyone by inserting a pirate face-off, slice of life, exposing more background of a wonderous world, add big-bad misunderstood enemy for tension, hints of eventual reconciliation.

I'm trying to imagine how the series strategy meeting went like an RPG Game Master closing off a campaign when guest GMs had to fill in the middle. "Okay, this was a foreshadowing for this. We'll make that meaningful by adding this. Put in a Shamylan twist for fun. Try not to go meta/Matrix/St. Elsewhere. Ok, ready, let's tie this off with a bang!"

This episode was okay for me. At least there was a reveal on Ledo's location. Just enough to keep me hanging around. Sometimes I want to yell at the screen, "you better not be wasting my time!" :-)

Manji Midou
2013-05-29, 18:55
so.....

This is totally out of context regarding the topic at hand, but....

Will we ever see the pirate queen evah again?

sky black swordman
2013-05-29, 20:17
^ I doubt it and I always assumed she died after her battle against Ledo. :eyebrow:

Xellos-_^
2013-05-30, 00:38
Rule of Anime: if you haven't seen the body, assume Alive.

lightbringer
2013-05-30, 17:52
Pretty sure she's still alive, but it's a toss up as to whether she'll appear again or not. I seem to recall her being mentioned in this (or was it the previous) episode so my money's on her making another appearance though.

Triple_R
2013-05-30, 18:43
Her and her mecha crashed into the ocean at pretty high velocity. That was the last we saw of her. I don't recall there being any ships around to retrieve her; at least not any ships that would be likely to do so (it's a pretty safe bet Gargantia didn't).

I won't be shocked if she shows up again in some capacity, but if she doesn't come back, I'm going to think she probably died.

In all likelihood, she was just an one-shot villain, albeit a very fun and colorful one.

Jan-Poo
2013-05-30, 20:02
I'd be really surprised if Rackage and her slaves didn't appear again.

I see two possible scenarios for her comeback.

1) It was mentioned that the Gargantia would be defenseless without Flange and that could be a foreshadowing to a new attack from the pirates where they will inevitably win and even capture the fleet.

2) The lost technology that Flange and Pinion are trying to recover is certainly something that Rackage would want to get her hands on. While she can't win against Chamber, she might take advantage of the fact he will have his hands full with the Hideauze.

Folenfant
2013-05-31, 06:52
I see what they are trying to do with this show more with this episode even if it was on the slow and thin side ongoing development wise. A few characters are sort of at a crossroads and have to make some tough decisions for the first time possibly in their lives on whether to choose the easy simpler path in staying with the Gargantia and forgoing the duties they feel have been placed on them or going off into the unknown to follow their destiny (hence the separation anxiety theme) and pretty much all of them make the harder choice (at least it appears that way on the surface) to follow their own leanings independent of each other and assume whatever role life and their upbringing has dealt them for the sake of a what they hope will be a better life for those they care about in the long run.

Most interesting this episode was Ridget (who to me has been not only the most interesting female cast member but the most interesting Gargantia borne character period and has development that kind of parallels Ledo. Despite this she lacks her own character page) who literally lets her hair down and assumes the mantle of Fleet Commander which was basically forced on her despite her worries she's not ready and she seems to have won the support of at least some of the Gargantia citizens. Ledo finally appears to leave the ship to pursue the Hideauze/whalesquid after several episodes of menacing (I say this jokingly but then again it's kind of the case) his friends with the idea that they won't survive if they don't let him try to do his thing or that they're just plain going to die when the whalequids show up again so we'll see what happens there. Amy is still just Amy and remains my least favorite character in the entire thing and it looks like Pinion will potentially try to accompany Ledo to get his vengeance.

All that said my main worry remains that the show just simply does not have enough to time to explore all the potential plot threads and resolution to the series core themes of separation and finding ones place in the world. The show up to this point has been unusually slow paced for a 12 episode series and pretty thin on plot and character development relying instead a lot on atmosphere and depiction of every day life on the Gargantia and the contrast with Ledo's militaristic outlook on life to unfold it's tale, but it's honestly been pretty uneventful so far such that I just can't imagine things speeding up in the final 4 episodes or whether it's even a good idea. It'll be really interesting to see how the show handles it's final act and whether it will continue to struggle to bring events and its themes forward in progression or deliver a satisfying conclusion that justifies the way it's chosen to spend the 4 and a half hours it has.

andyjay729
2013-05-31, 08:36
All that said my main worry remains that the show just simply does not have enough to time to explore all the potential plot threads and resolution to the series core themes of separation and finding ones place in the world. The show up to this point has been unusually slow paced for a 12 episode series and pretty thin on plot and character development relying instead a lot on atmosphere and depiction of every day life on the Gargantia and the contrast with Ledo's militaristic outlook on life to unfold it's tale, but it's honestly been pretty uneventful so far such that I just can't imagine things speeding up in the final 4 episodes or whether it's even a good idea. It'll be really interesting to see how the show handles it's final act and whether it will continue to struggle to bring events and its themes forward in progression or deliver a satisfying conclusion that justifies the way it's chosen to spend the 4 and a half hours it has.

That's my main issue with the show thus far; it really should've been at least 24 episodes for its scope. But then, as I said in another thread, I also think Madoka also had some pacing issues and should've been 24 eps for all the ground it was trying to cover.

And I'm glad some people are speaking more highly of Ridget. I never thought of it that way before, but you're right, in some ways she is Gargantia's counterpart to Ledo.

orpheus2
2013-05-31, 09:04
I guess Ledo chose to continue being a soldier. Then again, it is hard to change one's perspective. As expected though, it got dark.

It boils down to energy. Gargantia don't produce energy themselves but merely recharges their batteries.

But if say they rediscover say nuclear power they'll be attacked as Hideauze are energy feeders.

Already they share a habitat in Sea Galaxy nanomachines.

Gargantians act like people in bear country. Don't spook the bears.

Avalon and its colonies are suburbia... They shoot bears.

Well, that's one way to interpret it.

Guido
2013-06-04, 01:35
This episode was soothing and yet so sad, since it has attached the meaning of "departures" and "going separate ways" all over.

What makes me afraid about change is that it comes out of the blue without warning, and yet everyone has to somehow cope with those changes.

The Gargantians had a pleasant time, but things changed, and Fairlock's death meant the end of an old era, and it's up to Ridget taking the mantle to start a new era for the sake of the Gargantians's peace and prosperity.

Flange and his people had gone their separate ways, and so Pinion, and Ledo with his mission still on due course: Eliminate Hideauze before they begin to make war against the Earthlings.

I do not want to take sides or seem biased.

With so little information for the time being, Ledo's reaction and course of action may seem natural, though not understandable to Amy the most, as to why he takes all those risks and wanting to cause unncessary conflict.

If I want to stand a middle ground between two opposing sides, Ledo has his reasons.

And maybe or not the whalesquids would turn out dangerous later for the Earthlings, but I would want to believe the Earthling strain is less vicious than the space Hideauze.

chaos_alfa
2013-06-06, 16:45
I found them making such a big deal about Ledo leaving a bit strange. Wouldn't Ledo with the help of Chamber be able to easily locate the Gargantia with his sensors and be able to quickly bridge that distance whenever he wanted it?