Valvrave the Liberator - Spoilers & Speculation based on Previews, Website etc.

[Key Board]

Let's see what kind of potential military strength they have

Saki's machine is damaged, but functional.
Rune power up soon? if Rune powers are triggered by keywords, maybe something will happen?

Akira's machine will be fighting Q-Vier?
Rune power up?

X-Eins will probably gunning straight for Cain

A-Drei might join X-Eins or assist Saki/Akira

There's also a bunch of Royalist. But they'll probably be fighting the other enemy mobs

[LightDragonman]

I wonder if Saki will manifest her rune powers in the next episode, as she is desperately trying to fight the enemies in her damaged unit, thus leading her to unconsciously use them to power Carmilla. Would be quite an awesome moment.

[Thess]

She might not have to do that yet. Don't forget those units are controlled by Kriemhild who just got a call from L-Elf.

[LightDragonman]

So wonder if she's gonna call off their attack?

[Kusaja]

There was not even a need to make the module a country, they could have just headed to the Moon once detaching from the Dyson Sphere.

There are in-universe reasons for that...but in the end, making the module a country was part of the show's whole concept.

It's unrealistic, yes, but this is an unrealistic series about space vampires. You'd think this would be clear by now.

All things considered, I've enjoyed the second season of Valvrave more than the first and think they have done enough build up to make another series, if they so desired, in order to cover more of the future content and so on, but if they ultimately don't then it's still possible to have a decent season ending. Just probably not a great one.

[Key Board]

She might not have to do that yet. Don't forget those units are controlled by Kriemhild who just got a call from L-Elf.

Yeah, she controls the permission to go into "human" mode
Without that Kirshbaums are nerfed

[Hiss13]

Why do I have the feeling that this is going to end like the final episode of Gundam 00 S1? The way I see it, we're going to have a few more deaths of characters like Shouko and one more major death while the VVV1 vs VVV2 fight ends like the Exia vs GN-Flag fight with the beginning of the Exia vs Alvatore/Alvaaron fight mixed in before a major time-skip and a sequel hook. :eyespin:

[GundamZZ]

damn now that yamada died am concerned about akira... i remember someone mentioning that the pilots that are wearing their valvrave suit in the ending song are gonna die (T-T) first kyuuma now yamada... don't make it end with akira...

In the ending song, Akira is the only person with showing her pilot suit.

Why do I have the feeling that this is going to end like the final episode of Gundam 00 S1? The way I see it, we're going to have a few more deaths of characters like Shouko and one more major death while the VVV1 vs VVV2 fight ends like the Exia vs GN-Flag fight with the beginning of the Exia vs Alvatore/Alvaaron fight mixed in before a major time-skip and a sequel hook. :eyespin:

It won't be surprising because this types of plot has been there for centuries.
The suikoden and The Hakkenden both tell the story of a team of fighters. Each person has a personal struggle. They eventually join the final fight and loss lives one by one. The surviving people move on while remembering them. In Saint Seiya, the fighter got kicked off the team stays in hospital for months.

[black_cat1]

At the moment, I only want to see the ending of this ss with Shouko finally confess her love and Haruto reply "Who are you?"

[amethystjewel]

^ And Haruto would be like, "Let's make memories again together." And they live happily ever after. I rather doubt that would happen considering how brutal this series is. Killing characters that I like one after another isn't good for my heart at all. :(

[Nayrael]

Combine this with how Cain doesn't have a major protagonist kill under his belt yet, and yeah, I'm a bit worried about Akira...

Prince's godmother is Renbokouji so I think the chance is good that Akira survives (of course Renbokouji could be Saotomi's descendant as well but I still put my money on Akira).

[DevilHighDxD]

X-eins could be the one killed by Cain also. Satomi won't want to be a Kamitsuki if Akira is dead.

[black_cat1]

^ And Haruto would be like, "Let's make memories again together." And they live happily ever after. I rather doubt that would happen considering how brutal this series is. Killing characters that I like one after another isn't good for my heart at all. :(


No and Haruto will walk away with Saki, leaving Shouko like this :o

[kivredia]

Just can't see Haruto surviving it, one way or another he wants to end the "curse". But since the VVVs are still active after this there has so be some replacement for the VVV engine with Pino in Hito.

Whatever that will be could be anyone's guess. So .... how about he defeats Cain but loses all his memories and "merges" himself(kamitsuki) with Pino(magius) and Shouko(human) to create new entity which results in a self sustaining VVV engine.

No for the twist. Hito is destroyed and the new engine gets placed into the heavily modified and upgraded Camilla. Saki now fights for another 200 years with the new entity(who is in part Haruto without memories and also Shouko) in the new VVV engine until the war ends because of the promise she made.

Don't kill me Devilhigh. :heehee:

[DevilHighDxD]

Just can't see Haruto surviving it, one way or another he wants to end the "curse". But since the VVVs are still active after this there has so be some replacement for the VVV engine with Pino in Hito.

Whatever that will be could be anyone's guess. So .... how about he defeats Cain but loses all his memories and "merges" himself(kamitsuki) with Pino(magius) and Shouko(human) to create new entity which results in a self sustaining VVV engine.

No for the twist. Hito is destroyed and the new engine gets placed into the heavily modified and upgraded Camilla. Saki now fights for another 200 years with the new entity(who is in part Haruto without memories and also Shouko) in the new VVV engine until the war ends because of the promise she made.

Don't kill me Devilhigh. :heehee:

Haruto won't survived but he will survived the battle with Cain and live another couple of years before died of runes deprivation. The empire hasn't been founded yet so it sometime after the empire is formed he died. I can't see him dying next battle.

[stagrider]

Haruto won't survived but he will survived the battle with Cain and live another couple of years before died of runes deprivation. The empire hasn't been founded yet so it sometime after the empire is formed he died. I can't see him dying next battle.

I don't think he will survive his fight with Cain. From how much he is piloting he seems to be losing runes faster as his limiter is stressed. To fight Cain he will have to push Hito to its limits and expend a lot of runes, possibly all of them. I fully predict him to have a Marie scene with Shouko as Haruto and Harto as Shouko, ending with a Harikiri Blade to finish off the remaining enemies, or barely alive Cain.

[Irenesharda]

X-eins could be the one killed by Cain also. Satomi won't want to be a Kamitsuki if Akira is dead.

I can see Satomi doing it even, or especially, if Akira dies. It's again that case of continuing your dead loved one's dream in their stead. It happens countless times in anime, it happened with L-elf, I can see Satomi deciding to become a kamitsuki in order to take his sister's place and continuing to build the world she wanted. He also has amazing multi-tasking skills, so it's possible that he can handle VVV6's abilities.

Haruto won't survived but he will survived the battle with Cain and live another couple of years before died of runes deprivation. The empire hasn't been founded yet so it sometime after the empire is formed he died. I can't see him dying next battle.

I don't know about Haruto, him surviving would be a miracle, but since I want something past this and I also highly doubt he can defeat Cain, he may surprise us and survive, just missing a good chunk of his childhood. Or maybe they'll pull some deus ex machina where his memories will get returned to him via the power of runes and the Valvraves will no longer need to take runes from their pilots to function. People have already mentioned Saki's long memory despite the fact that she's been a pilot for centuries, so I'm guessing something changes.

Also though, technically the Empire has been founded. The idea was started and that first plans for it have begun, that can be considered enough for a foundation and for Haruto to be considered a "founder".

[stagrider]

I don't think they need Cain, Haruto, and Danisrave to continue. The story that would continue from here would be about coming to coexistence and setting up the empire's new system and policies.

[Irenesharda]

I don't think they need Cain, Haruto, and Danisrave to continue. The story that would continue from here would be about coming to coexistence and setting up the empire's new system and policies.

That's true if it was just to end in epilogue, but if you were to continue the series in any form, you would either have to have Haruto as the MC survive his last battle, or make a sequel series with new characters and new MC.

Cain is also a wild card in this. He is the main antagonist, but he's also proven to be smarter and stronger than any other character in the series. Also, he's pretty much impossible to kill. You can't blow him up in his mech unless you want to kill Prue at the same time, which is something that not only Pino will not allow, but the plot will not allow either considering his part in it.
If you try to kill Cain some other way, it won't work because of both his regenerative abilities and the ability to jack other bodies if he needs to. So, the only way to kill Cain would be to completely drain his runes which is something you can't do without him knowing and consenting to it.

So, in all actuality, there's actually a great probability that Cain will survive this. He probably won't have his position anymore, but he'll live an go one to do other things. Also, the Magius will survive this too, they will just have to rethink their entire strategy and start over. L-elf and Haruto's purpose was to reveal the truth of the secrets of the world to everyone. However, this will end up bringing more chaos with it, before some kind of order can be achieved.

[stagrider]

Prue could also be absorbed into Hito. What Cain opened up between Tekka and Hito looked like a two way street. So its possible that if Haruto manages to beat Danisrave but Cain tries to snatch Pino again however Pino grabs Prue and drags him into Hito.

[DevilHighDxD]

There no mention of forming a empire, all L-elf and Haruto want to do is to created a place where coexistence is possible. But Saki mention that Haruto is one of the founder, therefore Haruto has to be alive when the idea of a coexistencing nation turn into a galactic empire for whatever reason. Saki in the future also mention that the promise is made during the 14th year of the 3rd Galactic Empire and that mean the Haruto will have at least 14 years to live. So for me, Haruto will survived the battle but died after sometime in the later history. I'm not saying that he will survived but just saying that he will at least lived another couple of years before he died.

[Irenesharda]

Prue could also be absorbed into Hito. What Cain opened up between Tekka and Hito looked like a two way street. So its possible that if Haruto manages to beat Danisrave but Cain tries to snatch Pino again however Pino grabs Prue and drags him into Hito.

Well, that's true except, Pino wouldn't want her brother in a prison like she is. Pino has expressly stated that she's imprisoned inside that engine and unlike her brother, cannot leave when she pleases. Also Prue knows all about Hito and the Valvrave project as he was the one who informed the rest of his people about it. So, we can guess that he may have been part of the program at one time before being rescued by Cain. His whole goal is to rescue his sister who is still stuck in there. He hates JIOR and the humans for what they did to him and his sister, for him to be stuck in another engine prison, even with his sister, would be the worst kind of torture. He would never trust Haruto and may even blame him for using his sister all this time.

If anything, Prue, the elder sibling, will break his younger sister out and have her join her people. Pino likes the humans, but she's not really loyal to them or anything, and she'll definitely side with her brother rather than stay imprisoned. Also, there's the question of if they'll reveal the importance of the two siblings to the Magius and why Cain believes that Pino at least can save their people. There's still a lot of exposition needed here.

There no mention of forming a empire, all L-elf and Haruto want to do is to created a place where coexistence is possible. But Saki mention that Haruto is one of the founder, therefore Haruto has to be alive when the idea of a coexistencing nation turn into a galactic empire for whatever reason. Saki in the future also mention that the promise is made during the 14th year of the 3rd Galactic Empire and that mean the Haruto will have at least 14 years to live. So for me, Haruto will survived the battle but died after sometime in later history.

Well, the "empire" part doesn't need to be expressly mentioned for it to be the foundation. The foundation for something can be pretty broad such as "just forming a country of our own where we can belong" and then laying the groundwork for it. After that, if that person with the idea dies but the idea he started does end up taking shape and forms into a country that ends up being an empire, it doesn't make him any less the founder of that country. He planted the idea and got it started, whether it was discussed as being an empire or not yet.
Also, as this is the Empire's first year it, the foundation has already be placed and it will begin on that same year.

[DevilHighDxD]

The foundation is coexistence with human and a place where Kamitsuki is welcomed, nowhere does that spell a empire for me that goes around conquering the universe. So something must happened for L-elf to take this route, remember he not doing this just for the Kamitsuki but mainly for Lise who wish for coexistence.

@Alex that the spin-off, it has nothing to do with the main series.

[Irenesharda]

Found this in the internet. Anybody knows what does the number 3 mean? Possibly 3rd season? Fake? Something else?
http://cs616722.vk.me/v616722762/32f6/-LJu6Qp1Zds.jpg

No, it's not fake, but that's for Valvrave Undertaker, the show's less popular and pretty superfluous spin-off manga. It's about some other kids from Sakimori that basically were put in place by L-elf to defend Module 77 when the Valvrave's were busy, by using remote controlled valvrave knock-offs.
The characters have a slight cameo in the anime, but other than that are pretty non-canon. No one else in the show proper mentions them or their mechs at any point, so in all honesty they might as well be in an AU story.

[Kurohane]

Prince's godmother is Renbokouji so I think the chance is good that Akira survives (of course Renbokouji could be Saotomi's descendant as well but I still put my money on Akira).

Assuming these two timelines are connected. Despite many calling it production frames that were never used in the S2 preview, I just can't write them off as such. One of the reasons is that they all relate with each other in some way.

-5 Pilots
-Carmilla out of commision
-Hito attacking with an outstretched familliar

-H-nuen, Kreimheld, and X-eins
-H-neun gravely injured holding a gun
-Cain and Saki

-Karlstein Uniform
-L-elf putting on said Karlstein Uniform with a pained face

That's all of them. If they were just random images, I'd be more inclined to think they were just frames in development, but if you look at it this way, too much coincidence.

I don't think he will survive his fight with Cain. From how much he is piloting he seems to be losing runes faster as his limiter is stressed. To fight Cain he will have to push Hito to its limits and expend a lot of runes, possibly all of them. I fully predict him to have a Marie scene with Shouko as Haruto and Harto as Shouko, ending with a Harikiri Blade to finish off the remaining enemies, or barely alive Cain.

This all started when the Ardor Grip was attached. It could have been sabotaged.

I can see Satomi doing it even, or especially, if Akira dies. It's again that case of continuing your dead loved one's dream in their stead. It happens countless times in anime, it happened with L-elf, I can see Satomi deciding to become a kamitsuki in order to take his sister's place and continuing to build the world she wanted. He also has amazing multi-tasking skills, so it's possible that he can handle VVV6's abilities.



I don't know about Haruto, him surviving would be a miracle, but since I want something past this and I also highly doubt he can defeat Cain, he may surprise us and survive, just missing a good chunk of his childhood. Or maybe they'll pull some deus ex machina where his memories will get returned to him via the power of runes and the Valvraves will no longer need to take runes from their pilots to function. People have already mentioned Saki's long memory despite the fact that she's been a pilot for centuries, so I'm guessing something changes.

Also though, technically the Empire has been founded. The idea was started and that first plans for it have begun, that can be considered enough for a foundation and for Haruto to be considered a "founder".

If the Galactic Empire is declared, to me, that's game over. I believe there is a reason why the first calendar is called "True Calendar". I don't believe the Third Galactic Empire is supposed to be formed. There is already reason to think this with the future scenes. I believe a reset is possible, but Haruto will remember everything that's happened, after he's "died".

There no mention of forming a empire, all L-elf and Haruto want to do is to created a place where coexistence is possible. But Saki mention that Haruto is one of the founder, therefore Haruto has to be alive when the idea of a coexistencing nation turn into a galactic empire for whatever reason. Saki in the future also mention that the promise is made during the 14th year of the 3rd Galactic Empire and that mean the Haruto will have at least 14 years to live. So for me, Haruto will survived the battle but died after sometime in the later history. I'm not saying that he will survived but just saying that he will at least lived another couple of years before he died.

If the declaration is made near the end of the next episode, it matches up. Really, that promise in this episode looks to be "the promise". They even did a pinky swear, when in Japan has more meaning of making a solemn vow. Also, Haruto doesn't look like he'll survive this. This isn't a shounen manga, nor should try to be one.

[DevilHighDxD]

^Saki say it a deal, plus there another promise that was made earlier about killing Haruto if he goes crazy :heh:

All in all, Saki won't put a Haruto's picture in that penchant just for that little promise. Honesty we don't know even what inside that penchant yet, saying Haruto's picture is just a guess but the only one who will make a promise with Saki is Haruto now as she valued the that promise and the penchant. :D

Having a declaration about conquering the human is kind of stupid when your force is so weak and will also made the human your enemy. Plus they still need to defeat the Magius first before starting the empire. :eyespin:

[stagrider]

This all started when the Ardor Grip was attached. It could have been sabotaged.


The Ardor Grip is just a piece of equipment that lets the Valvrave operate for a longer time without by constantly letting off heat. However this combined with the 4 impact boosters to make full impact allows Hito's performance to greatly increase which allows Haruto to spend runes faster without any breaks that heating up would cause.

[black_cat1]

The formation of Galactic Empire might be in ss3 or 4, remember that Lulu became the emperor near the end of CG , if you put it in the picture then there is a high chance that we will have ss4. There is 1 more thing that still not be solved is Shouko's death flag, with the case of Shirley in CG, I think she will die next ss thus makes up the tragedy for Haruto (his loved one die and he completely forget about her).

Don't keep the high hope in Ookuchi, happiness in his show only for side characters while MC tend to suffer.

[Kurohane]

^Saki say it a deal, plus there another promise that was made earlier about killing Haruto if he goes crazy :heh:

All in all, Saki won't put a Haruto's picture in that penchant just for that little promise. Honesty we don't know even what inside that penchant yet, saying Haruto's picture is just a guess but the only one who will make a promise with Saki is Haruto now as she valued the that promise and the penchant. :D

Having a declaration about conquering the human is kind of stupid when your force is so weak and will also made the human your enemy. Plus they still need to defeat the Magius first before starting the empire. :eyespin:

That's another thing with the subs. They say "yakusoku" in the show itself, and that means promise. If Haruto does die, I'd say it's likely she will. People handle grief in a variety of ways. Wanting to cling to anything that reminds them of the person lost.

Nothing was said about conquering the human race, just the declaration of the empire.

The Ardor Grip is just a piece of equipment that lets the Valvrave operate for a longer time without by constantly letting off heat. However this combined with the 4 impact boosters to make full impact allows Hito's performance to greatly increase which allows Haruto to spend runes faster without any breaks that heating up would cause.

It's too convenient for this to be a coincidence, though. We have no way of knowing if a magius was among the scientist, when they rescued them. It was a Professor Kitagawa that pointed it out. Also, Kibukawa said it would still be gathering dust in the back of the hangar. However, if this thing was so helpful, why would it be gathering dust away from all the other equipment in the back? Sounds like he gave them info on a flawed piece of equipment, and it was intentional.

[DevilHighDxD]

That's another thing with the subs. They say "yakusoku" in the show itself, and that means promise. If Haruto does die, I'd say it's likely she will. People handle grief in a variety of ways. Wanting to cling to anything that reminds them of the person lost.

Nothing was said about conquering the human race, just the declaration of the empire.

Empire is meant for conquering other, L-elf's mindset is probably conquering the human forcing them to coexist whether they like it or not. Again the promise is during the 14th year of the 3GE. Saki first spoken of the promise in 214th of the empire and she say it made 200 year ago.

L-elf will also supply some runes and there also Shoko who may do something for Haruto for at least some redemption. Saki may also do something about it, but I can't him dying next battle sometime after the battle yes but not during it.

[Irenesharda]

Empire is meant for conquering other, L-elf's mindset is probably conquering the human forcing them to coexist whether they like it or not. Again the promise is during the 14th year of the 3GE. Saki first spoken of the promise in 214th of the empire and she say it made 200 year ago.

It's the "galactic" empire, this suggests that they are going to spread their empire/country across the galaxy. Why waste time on Earth and a single species? That's thinking too small, and it would be too much trouble in the long run to try to subjugate humanity and force them onto your point of view. Also, remember that from the way Saki described it, Earth isn't even part of the empire, just some place "other", so no, most of humanity is probably not going to go along with this.

L-elf isn't going to force people outside of the empire to coexist. However, if you're ARE within the Empire, then you can either accept the presence of other intelligent species other than humans, or you can get out. That's the beauty of making a new country, you can decide things from scratch and not try to fit a previous culture or mindset into it. You can simply start fresh. That's why they no longer wanted it to be related to JIOR, this was going to be a totally new place.

[Kurohane]

Empire is meant for conquering other, L-elf's mindset is probably conquering the human forcing them to coexist whether they like it or not. Again the promise is during the 14th year of the 3GE. Saki first spoken of the promise in 214th of the empire and she say it made 200 year ago.

L-elf will also supply some runes and there also Shoko who may do something for Haruto for at least some redemption. Saki may also do something about it, but I can't him dying next battle sometime after the battle yes but not during it.

No doubt, that is a possibility, but another possibility is Future Saki generalizing it. "Even after 200 years," is more common to say then being completely exact like "Even after 214 years." I'm not denying you could be right, but that there's another possibility.

Also, I think you have a bit of a misconception of L-elf's character, if you really believe that.

It's the "galactic" empire, this suggests that they are going to spread their empire/country across the galaxy. Why waste time on Earth and a single species? That's thinking too small, and it would be too much trouble in the long run to try to subjugate humanity and force them onto your point of view. Also, remember that from the way Saki described it, Earth isn't even part of the empire, just some place "other", so no, most of humanity is probably not going to go along with this.

L-elf isn't going to force people outside of the empire to coexist. However, if you're ARE within the Empire, then you can either accept the presence of other intelligent species other than humans, or you can get out. That's the beauty of making a new country, you can decide things from scratch and not try to fit a previous culture or mindset into it. You can simply start fresh. That's why they no longer wanted it to be related to JIOR, this was going to be a totally new place.

What else is out there, though? I don't think this show will incorporate other aliens.

[DevilHighDxD]

It's the "galactic" empire, this suggests that they are going to spread their empire/country across the galaxy. Why waste time on Earth and a single species? That's thinking too small, and it would be too much trouble in the long run to try to subjugate humanity and force them onto your point of view. Also, remember that from the way Saki described it, Earth isn't even part of the empire, just some place "other", so no, most of humanity is probably not going to go along with this.

L-elf isn't going to force people outside of the empire to coexist. However, if you're ARE within the Empire, then you can either accept the presence of other intelligent species other than humans, or you can get out. That's the beauty of making a new country, you can decide things from scratch and not try to fit a previous culture or mindset into it. You can simply start fresh. That's why they no longer wanted it to be related to JIOR, this was going to be a totally new place.

That why I said it still a unknown reason why L-elf(or even Haruto) take this path, the initial goal is for human coexistence nothing on building a galactic empire. Which is why is the reason I believe Haruto will lived during the beginning of the empire if not he won't be known as the founder who lost many comrade during the battle for Module 77.

[Irenesharda]

What else is out there, though? I don't think this show will incorporate other aliens.

I really have no idea. :heh: We have a 200+ year time gap of events between now and the future, and even with an epilogue that's a lot of time to fill and explain. I doubt that the Magius are the only alien beings out there, they might even know of some others themselves considering their ability to travel interstellarly. However, I don't know if they'll include anymore. As of right now, I'm deducing that the Empire is made up of humans, Magius, and kamitsuki and they expanded that empire to the galaxy either through alliance with other species, or just through exploration to find and extend their own territory and to find safer places to live away from humanity.

That why I said it still a unknown reason why L-elf(or even Haruto) take this path, the initial goal is for human coexistence nothing on building a galactic empire. Which is why is the reason I believe Haruto will lived during the beginning of the empire if not he won't be known as the founder who lost many comrade during the battle for Module 77.

I honestly hope he does live so we can get more story. Also, I do see what you're saying in how does a democratically-minded people like former JIOR students decide to have an Empire? If this were Dorssian students I'd get it, but it is a little out there for them to think that way. Perhaps Haruto with his loss of memories becomes like Marie was two years ago and has no memories and thus has to start from scratch. Because of that, he learns from the start how to be a hardened leader and he leans more towards L-elf's example which would lead to him thinking imperially?

[DevilHighDxD]

I really have no idea. :heh: We have a 200+ year time gap of events between now and the future, and even with an epilogue that's a lot of time to fill and explain. I doubt that the Magius are the only alien beings out there, they might even know of some others themselves considering their ability to travel interstellarly. However, I don't know if they'll include anymore. As of right now, I'm deducing that the Empire is made up of humans, Magius, and kamitsuki and they expanded that empire to the galaxy either through alliance with other species, or just through exploration to find and extend their own territory and to find safer places to live away from humanity.

But that kind of defeat the goal of human and Kamitsuki coexisting if they have to be away from human. It need another season for a proper ending, why the coexisting idea become a galactic empire is still a mystery. No matter how hard Okouchi want to pull that off it will be a half-ass ending regardless. His major flaw is the future scene which he added in when he doesn't have the time to pull it off and that it add more questions than answers.


I honestly hope he does live so we can get more story. Also, I do see what you're saying in how does a democratically-minded people like former JIOR students decide to have an Empire? If this were Dorssian students I'd get it, but it is a little out there for them to think that way. Perhaps Haruto with his loss of memories becomes like Marie was two years ago and has no memories and thus has to start from scratch. Because of that, he learns from the start how to be a hardened leader and he leans more towards L-elf's example which would lead to him thinking imperially?

Deus ex machina, asspull or whatever you called it. Something will happened that allow Haruto to lived for a while, be it Saki out of her love for him or Shoko for redemption. But I'm sure as hell Haruto will survived the battle and then died seeing his empire flourish.

[finalfury]

But that kind of defeat the goal of human and Kamitsuki coexisting if they have to be away from human. It need another season for a proper ending, why the coexisting idea become a galactic empire is still a mystery. No matter how hard Okouchi want to pull that off it will be a half-ass ending regardless. His major flaw is the future scene which he added in when he doesn't have the time to pull it off and that it add more questions than answers.

His major flaw was introducing a potential plotline far better than Valvrave - L-elf since Saki is likely the main character of that plotline. :x
Too much information, not enough utilization of the episode cap in order to cover it all is the main issue here.

[Thess]

What else is out there, though? I don't think this show will incorporate other aliens.

Newtypes, duh! 70% of Human population lives on space and not on Earth, you know. :heh:

I honestly hope he does live so we can get more story. Also, I do see what you're saying in how does a democratically-minded people like former JIOR students decide to have an Empire? If this were Dorssian students I'd get it, but it is a little out there for them to think that way. Perhaps Haruto with his loss of memories becomes like Marie was two years ago and has no memories and thus has to start from scratch. Because of that, he learns from the start how to be a hardened leader and he leans more towards L-elf's example which would lead to him thinking imperially?

Democracy failed them and got them nearly killed. Okouchi has such a hate boner against democracy in general. They don't have to decide anything, L-Elf is here to plan things after all. And he was all for militarization and expansionism in first season. They didn't do that, they almost got wiped out.

[Key Board]

or maybe they run into ELS

That's for SRW, I suppose

[finalfury]

Haruto ambiguous death and return in season 3 ala Mu La Flaga style. Believe it. :heh:

[DevilHighDxD]

Haruto ambiguous death and return in season 3 ala Mu La Flaga style. Believe it. :heh:

Sorry, but this time getting blow up while inside the mecha is a guaranteed death. No more Jesus Yamato Christ BS :heh:

[~BC~]

What else is out there, though? I don't think this show will incorporate other aliens.

The whole Class 7 Life form naming sounds like there may be something else out there; otherwise where does that naming system come from? Or maybe prior to this, humanity has only dealt with space roaches and the like.:heh:


Haruto ambiguous death and return in season 3 ala Mu La Flaga style. Believe it.
Maybe just leave it at ambiguous death. Then have L-Elf mention that tracking device he implanted is still active and moving at the beginning of a new season.

[Kurohane]

Sorry, but this time getting blow up while inside the mecha is a guaranteed death. No more Jesus Yamato Christ BS :heh:

Ironic that death scene was not Kira's.

Newtypes, duh! 70% of Human population lives on space and not on Earth, you know. :heh:



Democracy failed them and got them nearly killed. Okouchi has such a hate boner against democracy in general. They don't have to decide anything, L-Elf is here to plan things after all. And he was all for militarization and expansionism in first season. They didn't do that, they almost got wiped out.

Leaving the joke aside, I doubt this show will leave the world of humans.

They would have gotten sacrifices either way. It was a pick your poison situation. There's no guarantee they wouldn't have as many deaths if they actually did form a military state at that time.

[Irenesharda]

Sorry, but this time getting blow up while inside the mecha is a guaranteed death. No more Jesus Yamato Christ BS :heh:

Yeah, there's no way they are going to blow up Haruto a la Mu la Flaga. Without VVV1 none of the other valvraves work as far as we know, so Saki's in the future wouldn't work. Also, that would kill Pino, and she's too cute and has too much meaning to the plot to kill off in such a violent way.

No, if Haruto dies, it will be because of rune deficiency. However, I'm actually doubting if he's going to go the same way as Marie, that seems kind of superfluous. That's why I'm actually thinking that he might just dodge his death flags here.

[Kurohane]

Yeah, there's no way they are going to blow up Haruto a la Mu la Flaga. Without VVV1 none of the other valvraves work as far as we know, so Saki's in the future wouldn't work. Also, that would kill Pino, and she's too cute and has too much meaning to the plot to kill off in such a violent way.

No, if Haruto dies, it will be because of rune deficiency. However, I'm actually doubting if he's going to go the same way as Marie, that seems kind of superfluous. That's why I'm actually thinking that he might just dodge his death flags here.

I'm sure Cain plans to secure her before dispatching Unit 01.

Edit:
Could someone translate this? It was in the image thread.
http://i.imgur.com/rcF27Wh.jpg

[Mad Pierrot]

I'm sure Cain plans to secure her before dispatching Unit 01.

Edit:
Could someone translate this? It was in the image thread.
http://i.imgur.com/rcF27Wh.jpg

I don't know Japanese but I get by the Turning Point thing that even the magazine is aware of Haruto's death flags. If the kid goes down, let's hope it will be meaningful and not meanspirited. Even Tomino didn't like what he did to Kamille in the original Zeta ending due to the message he gave to the audience.

[Irenesharda]

I'm sure Cain plans to secure her before dispatching Unit 01.



And there we have the problem. If Pino leaves Unit 1, all the valvraves shut down. So there would be no need to defeat VVV1, it's no longer a threat. However, Haruto can't destroy Dainsrave without destroying Prue, which Pino won't allow. And if both Pino and Prue leave their respective machines, neither one will work. The more you look at it, the less likely it is that there will be any definitive finale to a fight between VVV2 and VVV1.

[~BC~]

You might be on to something. With the Fuhrer exposed what if Cain decides to jack Haruto with the intention of making the module the Magius' new haven?

To be clear, he manages to beat Haruto but obviously not wanting kill Pino tries to extract her. While this is going on they have an exchange and Cain finds out about the country Haruto wants to create. Realizing his brethren probably need the power of the Valvraves more than ever he decides to jack Haruto to try and make a deal with the survivors. Barring that, he'll use force.

[finalfury]

And there we have the problem. If Pino leaves Unit 1, all the valvraves shut down. So there would be no need to defeat VVV1, it's no longer a threat. However, Haruto can't destroy Dainsrave without destroying Prue, which Pino won't allow. And if both Pino and Prue leave their respective machines, neither one will work. The more you look at it, the less likely it is that there will be any definitive finale to a fight between VVV2 and VVV1.

My guess is that we will see a mecha fight, then both will be severely damaged, then it will be Cain vs. L-elf/Haruto in human form and Cain will get killed by L-elf and claim Dainsrave as his own. :c
Yes I want a L-elf vs. Cain showdown. :/
I also want L-elf to get Dainsrave.

[DevilHighDxD]

^Yes that will allow Prue and Pino together on the good side and allow L-elf to pilot a Valvrave.

[Irenesharda]

My guess is that we will see a mecha fight, then both will be severely damaged, then it will be Cain vs. L-elf/Haruto in human form and Cain will get killed by L-elf and claim Dainsrave as his own. :c
Yes I want a L-elf vs. Cain showdown. :/
I also want L-elf to get Dainsrave.

I really want L-elf to get his own mech too. However, how exactly do you kill Cain? First, unlike the kamitsuki pilots, he hasn't made a contract with his machine, neither was he transformed by it like they were. He can use it simply because he was the original being the machine was made for when the scientists were trying to copy Magius genetics. So even if you destroy his Dainsrave, not counting the destruction of Prue, that probably won't also destroy him. Second, now that we've found out that the Magius can regenerate from lethal wounds, you can't really kill him with weapons or force. And lastly, even if somehow even then, you can destroy his body, that won't necessarily destroy his natural ethereal form which is still also immortal and can leave his human shell anytime.

Trying to kill him or any of the Magius is near impossible unless you're talking rune drainage, and like Lise, they have to already be near starvation for that.

And then you also have to take on the fact that Cain is still smarter and stronger than both L-elf and Haruto. Also, interestingly enough, unlike many super-smart villians he also seems strangely humble, not accepting a lot of praise for his plans despite how amazing they are. This makes me think that he's not going to let pride or overconfidence get the best of him very easily. I have no doubt he (like L-elf would) has plans A,B,C, and D, for what's going on. He also like L-elf, is very good at thinking on his feet and modifying his plans as he goes in case he's faced with any kinks.

So, yeah, this last fight, I'm am really, really unsure if anyone is really going to defeat anyone.

You might be on to something. With the Fuhrer exposed what if Cain decides to jack Haruto with the intention of making the module the Magius' new haven?

To be clear, he manages to beat Haruto but obviously not wanting kill Pino tries to extract her. While this is going on they have an exchange and Cain finds out about the country Haruto wants to create. Realizing his brethren probably need the power of the Valvraves more than ever he decides to jack Haruto to try and make a deal with the survivors. Barring that, he'll use force.

That actually might be a cool plan. Though I don't know if you could get Cain and L-elf to work together. That would be interesting though. :p

[Thess]

Leaving the joke aside, I doubt this show will leave the world of humans.

They would have gotten sacrifices either way. It was a pick your poison situation. There's no guarantee they wouldn't have as many deaths if they actually did form a military state at that time.

They would have minimized the loses that's for sure. What happened to them was the scenario without resistance (the one without L-Elf, Cain flat out spelled it aloud).

I must be the only person in this fandom who doesn't want L-Elf to get a special mecha. Part of his balanced dynamics with Haruto is that he's human who thinks the plan and is the one who fights with skill while Haruto's the "monster" (used in an affectionate way) pilot with powers who isn't anything special without Valvrave and the kamitsuki injection. If L-Elf were to get a special mecha, it'll be the same of Haruto suddenly becoming a tactical genius and a good fighter. It ruins their cooperation. Think Okouchi's previous main male characters in Code Geass. L-Elf took from Lelouch his brain while Haruto the 'powers'. From Suzaku, L-Elf has the prime fit athlete form while Haruto inherits the speshful robot.

[NeutralZero]

a Cain vs L11 in actual combat will only result in L11's defeat or a repeat of S1...
Haruto in L11's body fighting Cain in unit 1 might even out the odd
since L11 has the body to be a match while haruto has the runes
and would help Haruto not to be drained out of his runes
though kinda sad if the memories that will be takern from L11 is similar to Haruto,
Memories of Liz...

[DevilHighDxD]

I'm hoping for a epic battle between Hito and Dainsleif, when Haruto start fueling with his memories and start to overpowering Cain. Dainsleif then split, cliffhanger along with the announcement of season 3. Please Sunrise, that will be the best Christmas present for me. :)

[Kurohane]

And there we have the problem. If Pino leaves Unit 1, all the valvraves shut down. So there would be no need to defeat VVV1, it's no longer a threat. However, Haruto can't destroy Dainsrave without destroying Prue, which Pino won't allow. And if both Pino and Prue leave their respective machines, neither one will work. The more you look at it, the less likely it is that there will be any definitive finale to a fight between VVV2 and VVV1.

If they lose Pino, they just need to find a replacement. Cain obviously has something in mind. We can't assume anything ourselves. However, we know Haruto doesn't have good chances. He is losing memories, and Hito is showing the same phenomenon when Marie piloted it. This battle won't take much time, as it will only last until Haruto runs out of memories, and then his life. It's possible the fight ends on a cliffhanger, like halfway through the episode. They both charge a Harikiri Blade and fire at the same time.

[finalfury]

I really want L-elf to get his own mech too. However, how exactly do you kill Cain? First, unlike the kamitsuki pilots, he hasn't made a contract with his machine, neither was he transformed by it like they were. He can use it simply because he was the original being the machine was made for when the scientists were trying to copy Magius genetics. So even if you destroy his Dainsrave, not counting the destruction of Prue, that probably won't also destroy him. Second, now that we've found out that the Magius can regenerate from lethal wounds, you can't really kill him with weapons or force. And lastly, even if somehow even then, you can destroy his body, that won't necessarily destroy his natural ethereal form which is still also immortal and can leave his human shell anytime.

Trying to kill him or any of the Magius is near impossible unless you're talking rune drainage, and like Lise, they have to already be near starvation for that.

And then you also have to take on the fact that Cain is still smarter and stronger than both L-elf and Haruto. Also, interestingly enough, unlike many super-smart villians he also seems strangely humble, not accepting a lot of praise for his plans despite how amazing they are. This makes me think that he's not going to let pride or overconfidence get the best of him very easily. I have no doubt he (like L-elf would) has plans A,B,C, and D, for what's going on. He also like L-elf, is very good at thinking on his feet and modifying his plans as he goes in case he's faced with any kinks.

So, yeah, this last fight, I'm am really, really unsure if anyone is really going to defeat anyone.

My understanding of how immortality works in this series is that it only works if body parts are still connected to the main body. Thunder was shown to have had half of body blown off and since people are usually aware of when they are about to die after severe injuries, it is likely that limbs cannot be regenerated.

Also, in the case of the Fuhrer, I suspect that L-elf intentionally avoided removing his head from his body since L-elf had some speculations about that before. If Cain's ethereal spirit does come out, I don't think it will survive since Liselotte implies that their spirit forms cannot exist on the Earth's atmosphere for a long duration of time hence the need to jack someone.

@Thess: Lelouch had a mecha unit for a portion of the series tho. :c

Or if you really want to, have Haruto drain Cain's Runes via neck penetration. :v

[Thess]

a Cain vs L11 in actual combat will only result in L11's defeat or a repeat of S1...

I speculate Haruto will drain him of runes in his hito fight before L-Elf, X-eins and A-drei take him in combat. Or until Pino and Prue make up for the lost time and leave. It wouldn't surprise me L-Elf and Cain engage into a fist fight for a while and X-eins shoots Cain in the back, barking his "always bring a companion to watch your back" quote back at him to avenge H-neun.

[NeutralZero]

but that won't kill them
unless they're blown or got hacked in the most brutal/gore manner...

[Thess]

but that won't kill them
unless they're blown or got hacked in the most brutal/gore manner...

Of course not, but it'll give L-Elf time to decapitate him.

[Irenesharda]

If they lose Pino, they just need to find a replacement. Cain obviously has something in mind. We can't assume anything ourselves. However, we know Haruto doesn't have good chances. He is losing memories, and Hito is showing the same phenomenon when Marie piloted it. This battle won't take much time, as it will only last until Haruto runs out of memories, and then his life. It's possible the fight ends on a cliffhanger, like halfway through the episode. They both charge a Harikiri Blade and fire at the same time.

But how do you find a replacement Magius who's willing to be imprisoned inside an engine for the sake of a group of kids that just decided to endanger your whole race?

However, yeah this is going to be one hard, if not impossible fight coming up. And even then that's not the end of it. Not by a longshot.

My understanding of how immortality works in this series is that it only works if body parts are still connected to the main body. Thunder was shown to have had half of body blown off and since people are usually aware of when they are about to die after severe injuries, it is likely that limbs cannot be regenerated.

Also, in the case of the Fuhrer, I suspect that L-elf intentionally avoided removing his head from his body since L-elf had some speculations about that before. If Cain's ethereal spirit does come out, I don't think it will survive since Liselotte implies that their spirit forms cannot exist on the Earth's atmosphere for a long duration of time hence the need to jack someone.



We really don't know enough about the Magius' abilities, we just found out this episode that they can regenerate, who knows what else they can do? However, it was said somewhere in an interview that the kamitsuki die when the mecha they are contracted too is destroyed. That's why Thunder and Kyuma died, because their mechs and especially their engine was destroyed. L-elf has theorized that cutting off the head may also kill them, but he also theorized that kamitsuki could be killed by a bullet to the head and he was proved wrong there, so really we don't know.

I'm thinking limbs could be regenerated since that's not really lethal and even humans could survive that. Also, they are shown to be able to heal from broken and torn apart limbs which means they can create new flesh and bone really fast. Its only a few steps further to heal an entire limb.

Now it's true that Lise says that exposure without a human shell could kill a Magius. However, she says it more as if it's a prolonged thing not instantaneous. She says something like "waiting for death" so that suggests it would take a while. In that kind of time, with so many humans around, Cain could easily find a new one if he had to. In their natural form all they have to do is enter the body through the mouth or some open area and they've already taken over.

[Kurohane]

But how do you find a replacement Magius who's willing to be imprisoned inside an engine for the sake of a group of kids that just decided to endanger your whole race?

However, yeah this is going to be one hard, if not impossible fight coming up. And even then that's not the end of it. Not by a longshot.


It doesn't even need to be a magius, but a kamitsuki. Akira, probably?

[finalfury]

But how do you find a replacement Magius who's willing to be imprisoned inside an engine for the sake of a group of kids that just decided to endanger your whole race?

However, yeah this is going to be one hard, if not impossible fight coming up. And even then that's not the end of it. Not by a longshot.



We really don't know enough about the Magius' abilities, we just found out this episode that they can regenerate, who knows what else they can do? However, it was said somewhere in an interview that the kamitsuki die when the mecha they are contracted too is destroyed. That's why Thunder and Kyuma died, because their mechs and especially their engine was destroyed. L-elf has theorized that cutting off the head may also kill them, but he also theorized that kamitsuki could be killed by a bullet to the head and he was proved wrong there, so really we don't know.

I'm thinking limbs could be regenerated since that's not really lethal and even humans could survive that. Also, they are shown to be able to heal from broken and torn apart limbs which means they can create new flesh and bone really fast. Its only a few steps further to heal an entire limb.

Now it's true that Lise says that exposure without a human shell could kill a Magius. However, she says it more as if it's a prolonged thing not instantaneous. She says something like "waiting for death" so that suggests it would take a while. In that kind of time, with so many humans around, Cain could easily find a new one if he had to. In their natural form all they have to do is enter the body through the mouth or some open area and they've already taken over.

They can regenerate wounds to a specific degree. They intake Runes form humans. They can use a specific language or I believe their thoughts to manipulate Runes to their bidding. They can hijack a human body and claim it as their own. I suspect that the need to change bodies comes from the fact that they slowly use the Runes of the bodies they are in so that after a specific time frame, their bodies can no longer supply the amount of the Runes they need in order to maintain their control over it hence the need to hijack another body. The usage of the Phantoms imply that Magius cannot ingest Runes via the fangs on their mouth or that the Runes of the humans need to refined in order for the Magius to be able to intake them into their bodies. Magius absorb the bodies Runes as the price of claiming the body, which could explain why they (Cain) lacks memories of the previous owner's past and why the Fuhrer doesn't currently know of the Karlstein Agency since even the Dorssia grunt soldiers (Season 1 episode 2) know of the Karlstein Agency. Season 1 finale implies that Magius can self-regenerate since Cain calls them a third generation immortal.

I think any doctor will tell you that re-attaching an entire limb is way easier than regrowing an entire limb. The information of the arm is sent to the brain, the brain re-configures the Runes to recover a specific portion of that body hence the regeneration. If the nerves of the body, which I suspect have a automatic messaging system that send info to the brain detailing the information on what needs to be regenerated, hence the regeneration process starting. If the brain cannot locate the nerves of the body part (the torn ones still were somewhat connected to the body IIRC), then regeneration cannot start I assume. This is my guess though so yea.....

I think their intake of Runes grows astronomically when they are in spirit form, which is why Pino and Prue are the closest things to a spirit form Magius that we will see in this series and even they need a vessel with Runes in it.

Don't bother replying to this. I'm too much of a hardheaded fool. Agree to disagree.

[Irenesharda]

It doesn't even need to be a magius, but a kamitsuki. Akira, probably?

I've thought of that. If the pilots themselves can somehow manipulate and convert runes into energy in order to power their own machines, they wouldn't need Pino. However, they would probably need someone to teach them Magius speech for that. Haruto learned to do a bit instinctively, but I'm guessing they're going to need more than that to be able to run the machines on their own and eventually be able to use rune magic.

And speaking of rune magic, that's another thing Cain has in his favor. Haruto's less than a novice in trying to use runes as a tool or a weapon, while Cain is an expert. Also, Dainsrave is covered in Magius writing, which makes me think that it too can utilize rune magic.

They can regenerate wounds to a specific degree. They intake Runes form humans. They can use a specific language or I believe their thoughts to manipulate Runes to their bidding. They can hijack a human body and claim it as their own. I suspect that the need to change bodies comes from the fact that they slowly use the Runes of the bodies they are in so that after a specific time frame, their bodies can no longer supply the amount of the Runes they need in order to maintain their control over it hence the need to hijack another body. The usage of the Phantoms imply that Magius cannot ingest Runes via the fangs on their mouth or that the Runes of the humans need to refined in order for the Magius to be able to intake them into their bodies. Magius absorb the bodies Runes as the price of claiming the body, which could explain why they (Cain) lacks memories of the previous owner's past and why the Fuhrer doesn't currently know of the Karlstein Agency since even the Dorssia grunt soldiers (Season 1 episode 2) know of the Karlstein Agency. Season 1 finale implies that Magius can self-regenerate since Cain calls them a third generation immortal.

The thing is, unless immortal's powers or limitations are clearly defined, we really don't know how far their abilities go. We don't know if they have a limit of damage they can take or not. The only things we do know is they can die from either the destruction of their contracted mech, or from complete rune depletion.

Also, from the way Cain said it back in episode 17, the Phantoms are simply a way to industrialize the rune collection process so that they can get more runes with less work and less danger of discovery. He also suggested that it was a way for them to a lot of runes all at once rather than person to person. I'm guessing that they did hunt back in the day, and probably still can, but like humans, why go out and shoot a deer when you can get it at the store? Also, Cain did say they were using the phantoms to prepare for this big ceremony they were supposed to have. They have yet to say what they ceremony was or is and I'm hoping they get to that before the end.

[finalfury]

So yea, Saki's "Haruto, help me!" line. Will it show up in the next episode since the other lines have already made an appearance?

[DevilHighDxD]

If the golden part of Carmilla is indeed spell for runes magic then it mean Dainsleif will be felling in the hand of the Kamitsuki.

@finalfury well yes, she is facing these ugly knock-off by herself. But since Saki is alive that mean Haruto did a good job of saving her :D.

[finalfury]

The Rune writing on Dainsrave seems to be more for limitation purposes. Previously, there was a negative effect on Plue when he was in Rave Engine 2. I assume the text are to limit the influence Rave Engine 2 has on Plue and allow him more freedom in terms of controlling and utilizing the Runes of Dainsrave.

[Irenesharda]

If the golden part of Carmilla is indeed spell for runes magic then it mean Dainsleif will be felling in the hand of the Kamitsuki.



What golden part? You mean in the future?

The Rune writing on Dainsrave seems to be more for limitation purposes. Previously, there was a negative effect on Plue when he was in Rave Engine 2. I assume the text are to limit the influence Rave Engine 2 has on Plue and allow him more freedom in terms of controlling and utilizing the Runes of Dainsrave.

I don't know, perhaps...though I thought Prue was having a hard time simply because VVV2 wasn't complete and therefore kind of short-circuited considering the power Prue was pouring through the thing. That's why it was breaking apart. Also, since Dainsrave has 4 engines, that should be enough to help Prue with the load.
I'm almost sure the writing is some sort of incantation, especially since its stated that Dainsrave has Magius technology incorporated within it, more than any of the others.

[Mad Pierrot]

Talking about the whole balance between protagonists in Code Geass Suzaku became stronger by using Lelouch's Geass to perform better moves. We could have the same with Haruto using the curse.

I would like the "Haruto, help me!" line to be deeper than "help me in the fight." It could be "don't die and help me not feel lonely."

[Nvis]

I think L-elf's going to be needed to run this country. Haruto doesn't inherit L-elf's intelligence when he gets into his body, or else he wouldn't need sticky notes. :heh:
and Haruto isn't smart enough or has enough will to lead an empire on his own. So I don't think he's going to die or get permanently taken over.

However, there is again the problem that I don't think Haruto has the skill to challenge Cain, and especially not in the VVV2.

Haruto does get some or most of L-Elf's skills. Like how he skillfully shoot a-drei in the eye and dorssian soldiers. And epic piloting of Valvrave.

[Thess]

Haruto does get some or most of L-Elf's skills. Like how he skillfully shoot a-drei in the eye and dorssian soldiers. And epic piloting of Valvrave.

Just the physical ones: those are muscular reactions. Please do re-watch episode 7, he has no grasp or understanding of how L-Elf plans things even in his body: he marvels at them when he reads his sticky notes. They don't need his soldier skills to run this but his brain. They are, as Cain put it, brainless without L-Elf. Haruto, on the other hand, is entirely replaceable in his major skill: pilot Hito. I suspect Satomi will become Hito's pilot, that explains why his future self uniform has yellow and red (gold&red could be the upgrade of Hito like Carmilla is green and gold). You could argue they could ask another one among his friends, but they don't have reasons to help them. X-eins has always put his friends over everything, he would try to kill them for taking over L-Elf (he never wanted F-6 to be killed, he's pretty soft with his buddies). A-drei is unlikely to lend a hand, after all he only cares about Dorssia (and L-Elf). In fact, removing L-Elf would imply removing the alliances he has within the military: contact with Royalists and Karlstein. The world wouldn't take kindly that a monster stole the body of the man who just revealed them the truth, completely endangering the plan.

Naturally, bad writing could dismiss logic, however as far as things stand. There's no characterization justification or plot justification. L-Elf is an irreplaceable asset while Haruto is not. If Haruto wants a new body, he can always jack Q-vier or someone he wouldn't absolutely require to keep the place afloat or is the human face of the liberation. Past episodes prove fairly clearly that right now, they are nothing without L-Elf and they collapse helplessly like dominos without his guidance. Haruto prefers to die than make L-Elf cry (episode 22), so I'm to buy he'll purposefully stay in his body?

Of course, I don't think Haruto will die, my theory is that he might become the new Valvrave Engine. Pino will be set free. The curse will end with him: he will turn it into a blessing.

As for the last battle: Haruto will take on Cain in the Valvrave. L-Elf and his group will give the finish blow after Cain is rune depleted and out of it perhaps. That's what I think. X-eins might give the final blow. He's the character set up with a personal motive against Cain, far more than L-Elf and Haruto.

[Triple_R]

A few months ago, just before the finale for Season 1, I posted up some comprehensive speculations for the finale. You can see them here (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4731515&postcount=457). As you can see, I had a pretty good record on "Key Points" (4 out of 5), but my "percentage likelihood of character death" was rather far off. :heh:

In any event, I found it a fun little exercise, so I'm going to do the same sort of comprehensive finale speculations for the big finale itself. The following is what I think will happen in the finale:



Key Points: Dorssia's government changes. Amadeus dies, while A-Drei becomes the new Monarch of Dorssia. L-Elf and/or Shouko successfully start a new country where human and Kamitsuki live together in peace. Haruto Dies. ARUS and its people become opposed to both Dorssia and the new country arising from the ashes of Module 77.


More detailed speculations: L-Elf decides to make Amadeus tell him everything he knows about the Council of 101. L-Elf also captures ARUS President Anderson and uses him to blackmail ARUS into backing off and returning their forces to Earth.

Haruto and Akira are still shook up over Yamada's death, but are showing relief over seeing L-Elf succeed. That's until Cain dramatically engages Haruto in battle, causing Akira to scream out to Haruto! But before she can help him, she's cut off by the psychotic-looking Q-vier engaging her in battle as well. Cut to the Valvrave logo (OP will be cut to save every second possible for this finale).

The two big mecha battles are Haruto vs. Cain and Akira vs. Q-vier. Cain is winning his battle, while the other battle is a stalemate. Haruto is leaking runes fast, and fears he will not have enough to win this battle. He's then saved by Saki flying triumphantly to the rescue to knock Cain back, and buy Haruto some time.

Saki shouts to Haruto to leave Cain to her, and for him to get to safety. Haruto agrees, but with the caveat that he will be back to save her. Haruto seeks out L-Elf for a Rune Snack, and L-Elf obliges (the preview shot where L-Elf bares his neck, as though preparing to be bit by a vampire).

While all this fighting goes on, A-Drei goes on TV to make a grand patriotic speech to the Dorssian people. He implores everyone to stand up against the fiends that are eating his country alive. He tells them to seize all government buildings, and to take their country back. We briefly see Shouko watching A-Drei's speech with a mixture of admiration (in him) and shame (in herself). But Shouko is inspired by A-Drei's speech, and will later give a dramatic speech herself.

After getting his L-Elf snack, Haruto rushes back into battle, arriving just in time to prevent Saki's death at Cain's hands. Haruto and Cain engage in an epic battle, while at the same time we see Shouko delivering a speech. In her somewhat tearful speech, she talks of Haruto's great sacrifice (appropriately mixed with scenes of him now fighting Cain), and how her and her people cannot allow that sacrifice to be in vain. She pleads with her people, and the people of Earth, to accept the Kamitsuki.

Hearing this gives Akira the second breath she needs, as she had just been losing to Q-viers. Renewed by Shouko's speech, Akira shouts loudly while bringing death and destruction upon Q-viers.

However, Haruto is losing memories fast. He watches Shouko's speech on his display in the hopes that doing so will help him not forget her. But it is all for naught, as he forgets about her anyway. Instead, she ironically ends up being a costly distraction to him.

"...Who is that? Giving that speech? I feel like I should recognize her, but I don't. Why am I watching her? Wait! Aren't I supposed to be fighti..."

And then Cain delivers the finishing blow to Haruto. Saki and Akira cry in horror at the sight. Saki is completely enraged, and vows to avenge her fallen friend and romantic crush. Her and Akira double-team Cain, and Cain is able to parry back Akira, but Saki proves too much for him. Saki destroys Cain's mecha and he dies at her hands.

That is the climax. We then move to the epilogue. Due to not having much screen-time during the action-y parts, Satomi and Takahi get a bit of screentime here, as they try to comfort Akira over the deaths of Haruto and Yamada, as well as reflecting on the heroism of both (especially Haruto). The next scene focuses on the naming of the new empire from which Module 77 will be born.

New Dorssian Monarch A-Drei is in attendance, to signal a diplomatic bond between his country, and that of his friend L-Elf.

The leader of the new country will be either L-Elf or Shouko. But the Founder will be declared to be Haruto, the great hero who gave his life to make this all possible.

In the final scene of the epilogue, we skip ahead to future!Saki and future!Satomi explaining this all to the Prince. And then we get a brief scene setting up... Valvrave Season 3! The episode ends with a promo for Valvrave Season 3, which will be centered around the time of Future!Saki and Satomi.


Now, percentage likelihood of character death in final episode (excluding during time-skip):

Cain - 75%

Amadeus - 75%

Q-Viers - 70%

Haruto - 55%

President Anderson - 45%

Akira - 33%

Shouko - 25%

Iori - 25%

L-Elf, Rion, X-Eins, Kriemheld - 3%

A-Drei, Takahi, Takumi, and Otomaya - 2%

Satomi and Saki - 1% (only because you can never be 100% certain with anything in Valvrave :heh: )

[~BC~]

@Triple R - I'm very skeptical they'd do another season without L-Elf, tbh. I'd also have to question any dramatic speeches made to the world to accept the Kamitsuki. It just feels like it'd be too soon to expect worldwide acceptance; I could see Shoko trying to bring around the other students on her ship though. As to A-Drei becoming the new Monarch, I guess this depends on whether or not the show writers are in sync with the side manga. I know it's been established there that A-Drei's right to the throne is very small (he's low in the line of sucession) but I guess this could happen since it's only ever established that's he's royalty in the show. But in general it feels like things fall into place a little too easily.

I'm of two minds as to how the Royalists might factor into things. For a clean wrap up of the series it's probably more likely that they'll assist L-Elf and company. Kriem may have gotten a message to send someone out to retrieve the survivors (the group getting saved just as that one ship with no named characters gets destroyed). Kriemhilde herself will stay behind providing backup for Saki.

For a continuation of the series things with the Royalists might not go so smoothly at all. We never got to see Kriemhilde's reaction to Lieselotte's death. Yes, the Royalists used the opportunity to riot but the fact remains the princess died after Kriem warned L-Elf to stay out things (which seems an odd thing to stick in just for the hell of it). She might not be so accomodating this time.

My mind is all over the place as far as speculations go so I'll probably add more later.

[DevilHighDxD]

@TripleR You really don't put a spoiler tag when you are speculating, anyway I agree on most points but like Thess I'm still mixed(more toward anti-side than pro) on Shoko doing something as major as building another country :heh:. But I really like the Haruto's death enraged Saki and kick Cain's ass :D. Why it always has to be male let the female main character defeat the final boss for once.

[Mad Pierrot]

Talking about President Anderson I wonder what are the writers going to do with him. Forget Shoko and New JIOR students selling out their friends. That's nothing compared to Anderson ordering the slaughter of the New JIOR members. Will he redeem himself for it, will divine justice kill him, or will he escape from his karma?

[DevilHighDxD]

Talking about President Anderson I wonder what are the writers going to do with him. Forget Shoko and New JIOR students selling out their friends. That's nothing compared to Anderson ordering the slaughter of the New JIOR members. Will he redeem himself for it, will divine justice kill him, or will he escape from his karma?

As long as everything is exposed he dead no matter what happen. He co-conspire with the Magius against the human and order a massacre on innocent people, even if the public forgive him which is zero chance by the way definitely our MCs won't .

[~BC~]

@TripleR You really don't put a spoiler tag when you are speculating, anyway I agree on most points but like Thess I'm still mixed(more toward anti-side than pro) on Shoko doing something as major as building another country :heh:. But I really like the Haruto's death enraged Saki and kick Cain's ass :D. Why it always has to be male let the female main character defeat the final boss for once.

This reminds me, while I would enjoy a Saki/Akira team up I'd say the likelihood of them taking down Cain is slim to none. Cain will be L-Elf/Haruto's take down unless they're going for a surprise kill at the hands of Q-Vier.:heh:

[Triple_R]

@TripleR But I really like the Haruto's death enraged Saki and kick Cain's ass :D. Why it always has to be male let the female main character defeat the final boss for once.

I agree. I think having the main antagonist go down at the hands of a female main character would make Valvrave even more memorable than it already is.

I'm honestly not very confident on most of my speculations (I'm still pretty divided on if Haruto will live or not, hence the 55% chance of getting killed I gave him), but my thinking is that the finale will probably focus mostly on main characters, and Saki really deserves a crowning moment of awesome after being out of action for most of the season.

I also expect Valvrave's finale to be loud and "fabulous", hence grand speeches. But I'll admit that BC could be right and Shouko's role could be a bit more restrained. :heh:


Talking about President Anderson I wonder what are the writers going to do with him. Forget Shoko and New JIOR students selling out their friends. That's nothing compared to Anderson ordering the slaughter of the New JIOR members. Will he redeem himself for it, will divine justice kill him, or will he escape from his karma?

He's been wrote as a pretty straight-up antagonist (his purge command being downright villainous), so I doubt that changes in the finale. But if he has any glimmer of hope, it's the look on his face during Amaedeus' speech (around 11:05 of the last episode). It strikes me as a strangely contemplative, and concerned look. Like maybe he's having 2nd thoughts about everything?

But honestly, Valvrave is probably going to have enough trouble just trying to redeem Shouko. :heh: So I doubt that Anderson gets that sort of treatment.

[Thess]

But honestly, Valvrave is probably going to have enough trouble just trying to redeem Shouko. :heh: So I doubt that Anderson gets that sort of treatment.

It's a problem to redeem current politicians in a show about revolutions and revolutionaries. Because, good or bad intentions, they are presented somewhat like antagonistic forces. For example, A-drei was easily redeemed because he's part of a revolution, ditto for Kriemhild, the late Lieselotte (the muse who came up with the idea Haruto and L-Elf are successors of) and X-eins now. The major issue with politicians right now is that they must have been part of the issue until it was too late and no matter what resources you used to make them "sympathetic" it leaves a foul aftertaste.

[MK-95-]

For some reason, I just can't shake the feeling that the final episode it gonna be a massacre. I just have this gut feeling that a lot of named character from both sides will drop like flies.

X-eins also has quite a huge death flag with his "I want to avenge my friend" & Q-Vier avoided the death by Kyuuma end when he kicked the bucket, just to call another death flag upon himself by wasting Thunder. The Backstreet boys aren't looking too good right now, but then again, Shoko also had massive death flags in season one & she's still here. So Idk what to think.

Haruto has the biggest death flag of all with him burning memories at the rate of Marie.

Depending on what Sunrise decides to do with VVV, Cain may or may not kick the bucket. If this is indeed the end, then Cain will perish next episode. If there is another cour planned, then he'll probably escape to menace our MCs another day.

[Irenesharda]

If they delay this episode again, I might just have to go against my general rule and watch the raw. I can't wait that long again! Especially since this next episode is supposed to come out early. :upset:

[Thess]

Massacre is a Sunrise show is very likely. It already began in episode 21, though!

@TripleR You really don't put a spoiler tag when you are speculating, anyway I agree on most points but like Thess I'm still mixed(more toward anti-side than pro) on Shoko doing something as major as building another country :heh:. But I really like the Haruto's death enraged Saki and kick Cain's ass :D. Why it always has to be male let the female main character defeat the final boss for once.

Looking back, it seems that Shoko was L-Elf's housekeeper:

http://i.imgur.com/xdD8M1g.jpg
(also note that the 'we' is a formality, because the language L-Elf used is the equivalent of the royal 'we', used by head of states or companies :heh:).

I think Shoko's biggest mistake is take her role too seriously which led to bad choice after bad choice and stress, when the position was originally only to cover Nanami-sensei's old functions as representative to ARUS talk and negotiation. In the aspect of ruling the module, that was defacto L-Elf like a reversed constitutional monarchy.

For a continuation of the series things with the Royalists might not go so smoothly at all. We never got to see Kriemhilde's reaction to Lieselotte's death. Yes, the Royalists used the opportunity to riot but the fact remains the princess died after Kriem warned L-Elf to stay out things (which seems an odd thing to stick in just for the hell of it). She might not be so accomodating this time.

L-elf's interference became the greatest thing for the Royalists. There's many royals waiting in the succession of line, but they have their martyr and an excuse to make the country upraise. Lieselotte cared about him and the feeling was mutual. If anything, she might feel bad that the warfare got between the princess' happiness with Michael. That L-Elf questioned if she knew his reasons a moment before dropping the plan and facing all the Dorssia army in Dorssiana for Lieselotte should spell out no one in the world loved Lieselotte more than L-Elf. Plus because they dealt with the Phantom as Royalists requested, many of their people were killed after Mirko's framing, so it's not like they have a right to feel bitter about one life lost.

[Triple_R]

For some reason, I just can't shake the feeling that the final episode is gonna be a massacre. I just have this gut feeling that a lot of named character from both sides will drop like flies.

It's possible. It's certainly been foreshadowed well with Kyuma and Thunder dying in the last 3 episodes alone.




Looking back, it seems that Shoko was L-Elf's housekeeper:

http://i.imgur.com/xdD8M1g.jpg
(also note that the 'we' is a formality, because the language L-Elf used is the equivalent of the royal 'we', used by head of states or companies :heh:).

I think Shoko's biggest mistake is take her role too seriously which led to bad choice after bad choice and stress, when the position was originally only to cover Nanami-sensei's old functions as representative to ARUS talk and negotiation. In the aspect of ruling the module, that was defacto L-Elf like a reversed constitutional monarchy.

In spite of all of our disagreements on Shouko, I agree with you here.

Yeah, I think L-Elf saw it as a reversed constitutional monarchy. Shouko was meant to be like the current Queen of England - a nice figurehead, politically-speaking. L-Elf was meant to be like the current Prime Minister of England, the guy actually in charge.

Unfortunately, the actual titles that everybody had probably gave Shouko the wrong impression.

[Thess]

In spite of all of our disagreements on Shouko, I agree with you here.

Yeah, I think L-Elf saw it as a reversed constitutional monarchy. Shouko was meant to be like the current Queen of England - a nice figurehead, politically-speaking. L-Elf was meant to be like the current Prime Minister of England, the guy actually in charge.

I still believe Shoko, despite my dislike for her, could be a good Minister of Internal or Foreign Affairs. Or someone in charge with Food and Rations (Welfare?), the role L-Elf assigned to her after he took the control of the Module. That's what she seems comfortable with and good at. Even in her interview in episode 14, she's happy to chat about her cooking and recipes.

[MK-95-]

Massacre is a Sunrise show is very likely. It already began in episode 21, though!

yup, all hell's breaking loose & I'm looking forward to it.

Looking back, it seems that Shoko was L-Elf's housekeeper:

http://i.imgur.com/xdD8M1g.jpg
(also note that the 'we' is a formality, because the language L-Elf used is the equivalent of the royal 'we', used by head of states or companies :heh:).

I think Shoko's biggest mistake is take her role too seriously which led to bad choice after bad choice and stress, when the position was originally only to cover Nanami-sensei's old functions as representative to ARUS talk and negotiation. In the aspect of ruling the module, that was defacto L-Elf like a reversed constitutional monarchy.

Agreed. I've said before that Shoko was a puppet leader. L-Elf is the true leader of what was N Jior.

It's possible. It's certainly been foreshadowed well with Kyuma and Thunder dying in the last 3 episodes alone.

So not gonna end well for our beloved cast. Well at least Saki & Satomi are confirmed to make it. Akira/Takahi/Iori is also confirmed to make it because the Prince's godmother is Renbokoji, they just weren't specific with it.

[KleenexGhost]

Pretty much have Shoko as the figurehead or have Shoko and Satomi as figurehead co-leaders. Shoko has the charisma while Satomi has some experience as student council president.

[Thess]

That was in New Jior where the Prime Minister needed to be someone who could talk to ARUS (the primary role Nanami had before calling for elections to decide if she should continue or someone else will take her place). L-Elf was out because he's not endeared to Arus in his previous standing. New country isn't new Jior. It's not for the students. The students can be part of it if they accept the laws it'll have (I doubt Iori will be allowed if she still keeps her anti kamitsuki position). But it's a country for humans and kamitsuki at large. Shoko and Satomi are not in the spotlight right now, retaking the Module as their first territory. Puppet leaders are only useful and credible if nobody knows the face of the man pulling the strings. It's kind of hard to buy them after L-Elf's little stunt. That's why Satomi's serving the Prince in the flash forward.

So not gonna end well for our beloved cast. Well at least Saki & Satomi are confirmed to make it. Akira/Takahi/Iori is also confirmed to make it because the Prince's godmother is Renbokoji, they just weren't specific with it.

I don't think Akira will die. Her role in hacking the broadcasts hasn't ended. And if you want foreshadowing about godmother status, her doll is attached on L-Elf's arm on the Blueray box cover.

[KleenexGhost]

That was in New Jior where the Prime Minister needed to be someone who could talk to ARUS (the primary role Nanami had before calling for elections). L-Elf was out because he's not endeared to Arus in his previous standing. New country isn't new Jior. It's not for the students.

The students can be part of it if they accept the laws it'll take (I doubt Iori will be allowed if she still keeps her posture of anti kamitsuki). But it's a country for humans and kamitsuki at large. Shoko and Satomi are not in the spotlight right now, retaking the Module as their first territory. Puppet leaders are only useful and credible if nobody knows the face of the man pulling the strings. It's kind of hard to buy them after L-Elf's little stunt.

I was saying that's how it should have been in New Jior, not the new country.

[Thess]

Oh yeah, that's how it was. Satomi was second to Shoko in the 'formal' hierarchy. Shoko won that election with 47% votes, apparently Satomi wasn't that far behind. Maybe they should have left Nanami in charge...

[~BC~]

Unfortunately, the actual titles that everybody had probably gave Shouko the wrong impression.

Or he, like Haruto just wasn't straight with her. I think she believes she's the real leader and I believe that's the official setting as L-Elf is described as her aid. I honestly don't get the insistence that L-Elf is the real leader since then you're essentially putting the inefficiencey of the country on his shoulders as well.

[KleenexGhost]

Oh yeah, that's how it was. Satomi was second to Shoko in the 'formal' hierarchy. Shoko won that election with 47% votes, apparently Satomi wasn't that far behind. Maybe they should have left Nanami in charge...

Nanami would have been a good person to play den-mother over the module. Kibukawa would be able to keep her in line.

Honestly, L-Elf should have had the important shit covered. I'm surprised he didn't leave Shoko instructions while they were getting into their hi-jinx on Earth

[Thess]

Or he, like Haruto just wasn't straight with her. I think she believes she's the real leader and I believe that's the official setting as L-Elf is described as her aid. I honestly don't get the insistence that L-Elf is the real leader since then you're essentially putting the inefficiencey of the country on his shoulders as well.

You mean the magazine profile? It describes him as the one in charge of New Jior posing as the Prime Minister aide. Frankly I'm surprised you even argue this: Did you completely miss that L-Elf told her she was going to be in charge of the Module while he was gone and she replied that she'll try to do her best until his return? This was on screen, written by Okouchi. It's fairly straightforward she's his figurehead. It seemed a week of freedom got to her head. Like those kids who party too hard when their parents are in a business trip.

[~BC~]

Telling her to "take charge" is not giving her permission to be in charge. The whole conversation was in regards to how ARUS was steamrolling them in negotiations.

[KleenexGhost]

Yeah, I took it as him telling her to hold down the fort while they were gone too. In terms of negotiations and in general.

[Triple_R]

It's possible that even holding an election was a mistake.

Rion had the perfect mentality for a puppet leader. No ambition, loads of caring for the kids, just wanted to keep things calm and smooth. Totally willing to leave more complicated foreign policy and military matters to others.


But when somebody wins an election, it has a psychological effect. It makes them feel like they have a mandate to govern.

We see this with Satomi too, who during Season 1 often acted like he was in charge of Module 77 because he happened to be the Student Council President. :heh: It was only after Shouko was elected that Satomi seemed to slide comfortably into a secondary leadership role, where he typically did well.

[Thess]

Telling her to "take charge" is not giving her permission to be in charge. The whole conversation was in regards to how ARUS was steamrolling them in negotiations.

It was giving her permission to be on charge and organize the module, because (iirc) he was using imperative form of the verb and a formal-royal we to highlight his higher status over Shoko. Japanese is a language with a lot of power-play differences. That chat made seem Shoko was working for L-Elf and not the other way around. The conversation about that ended with the proposal of the recon mission, L-Elf didn't mention ARUS after that. His concern was the Module. Naturally, without Lieselotte, he had no use for it anymore and were left to fence for themselves which is where the big problems began.

Edit: @Triple_R: I think it should have gone to Kibukawa and Nanami. Because nobody would take seriously a bunch of kids in the political arena unless they mean business. They might try to control those two but there wouldn't be a condescension involved.

Speaking on Kibukawa, I've seen plenty of people blaming Haruto about keeping quiet about secrets when they forget Kibukawa knew everything, was an adult (and not a confused and desperate teenager) and never spoke a single word about it. Even after episode 21, he doesn't bother to explain things to anyone.

[KleenexGhost]

It's possible that even holding an election was a mistake.

Rion had the perfect mentality for a puppet leader. No ambition, loads of caring for the kids, just wanted to keep things calm and smooth. Totally willing to leave more complicated foreign policy and military matters to others.


But when somebody wins an election, it has a psychological effect. It makes them feel like they have a mandate to govern.

We see this with Satomi too, who during Season 1 often acted like he was in charge of Module 77 because he happened to be the Student Council President. :heh: It was only after Shouko was elected that Satomi seemed to slide comfortably into a secondary leadership role, where he typically did well.

I'm gonna co-sign on this and add that in addition to that, Shoko is a charismatic leader. We've seen before that she can whip people into shape.

Satomi has grown a backbone and been developed, but at that point in time, I wouldn't have trusted him either. He bent too easily. In tough negotiations he might have cracked and gave into pressure.

With the way the characters are written, L-Elf was the only one on the ball. And personally speaking, I only really see him as the military adviser. He can lead soldiers, and strategize (I know it's not a word :heh:) his ass off, but has he really shown that he can lead a nation?

[~BC~]

It was giving her permission to be on charge and organize the module, because (iirc) he was using imperative form of the verb and a formal-royal we to highlight his higher status over Shoko. Japanese is a language with a lot of power-play differences. That chat made seem Shoko was working for L-Elf and not the other way around.

The conversation about that ended with the proposal of the recon mission, L-Elf didn't mention ARUS after that.

You're reading too much into it. L-Elf speaking as though he considers himself superior is nothing new. I can buy that he views her as a figurehead but not that it was a formal arrangement between them.

[Thess]

With the way the characters are written, L-Elf was the only one on the ball. And personally speaking, I only really see him as the military adviser. He can lead soldiers, and strategize (I know it's not a word :heh:) his ass off, but has he really shown that he can lead a nation?

Where has Shoko shown she can lead a nation? A couple of rioting students are enough to undermine her completely. It's not even in episode 21, but earlier in episode 5 with her Jingle Bells, she can't deal with stressful situations and can't take control of them by making others listen. She can only act as a personal friend to a few: that was her strength which was destroyed by forcing her to play 'Prime Minister' as episode 12 made an example of.

Where has Satomi shown he can lead a nation as well? Both, Satomi and Shoko, are laughed off by Arus politicians in episode 13. They undermined them completely.

From the three of them, the only one who has shown able to take control when it must is L-Elf. You're thinking "charisma" is merely relied on niceties and not competence. You're thinking empires aren't built by competent generals with plans of militarization and expansionism which L-Elf has since episode 7. You should look up more in examples of history about political empires, they aren't led by someone who needs popular vote based on the dishes they made for the track team but someone who can push their ground in the strength of arms and strategy. Look up Caesar (and predecessors and successors), the Persian Empire greatest rulers, the greatest Pharaohs in Egypt (the word Pharaoh was only coined after they became military leaders in campaigns no less!), Charlemagne, Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Mehmet, Oda Nobunaga, Sargon the Great of Akkad, etc. They need to be military strategist and they need to have a vision of what they wanted to accomplish. L-Elf was lacking the latter until Lieselotte died and gave him one. The ones dealing with the people are those beneath them: spokespersons to carry out their mandate. You're too used to democracy when you should be aware the Empire has a royal bloodline as rulers.

[MK-95-]

I don't think Akira will die. Her role in hacking the broadcasts hasn't ended. And if you want foreshadowing about godmother status, her doll is attached on L-Elf's arm on the Blueray box cover.

I can live with that. Too many VVV pilots are kicking the bucket. I doubt Saki is the sole survivor of the original five.

[DevilHighDxD]

It's possible that even holding an election was a mistake.

Rion had the perfect mentality for a puppet leader. No ambition, loads of caring for the kids, just wanted to keep things calm and smooth. Totally willing to leave more complicated foreign policy and military matters to others.


But when somebody wins an election, it has a psychological effect. It makes them feel like they have a mandate to govern.

We see this with Satomi too, who during Season 1 often acted like he was in charge of Module 77 because he happened to be the Student Council President. :heh: It was only after Shouko was elected that Satomi seemed to slide comfortably into a secondary leadership role, where he typically did well.

The election is stupid in the first place, it nothing more than just a popularity contest for which candidates that give the best speech that appeased the majority won. Shoko never really taken her position seriously until her father is killed there no psychological behind it, honesty Okouchi really have a beef with Democracy :heh:.

[KleenexGhost]

Where has Shoko shown she can lead a nation? A couple of rioting students are enough to undermine her completely. It's not even in episode 21, but earlier in episode 5 with her Jingle Bells, she can't deal with stressful situations and can't take control of them by making others listen. She can only act as a personal friend: that was her strength which was destroyed by forcing her to play 'Prime Minister' as episode 12 made an example of.

Where has Satomi shown he can lead a nation as well?

From the three of them, the only one who has shown able to take control when it must is L-Elf. You're thinking "charisma" is merely relied on niceties and not competence. You're thinking empires aren't built by competent generals with plans of militarization and expansionism which L-Elf has since episode 7. You should look up more in examples of history about political empires, they aren't led by someone who needs popular vote but someone who can push their ground in the strength of arms and strategy.

You're not getting what I'm saying. Read my previous posts and you'll see that I have said that I don't trust Shoko or Satomi leading a nation.

Charisma is the ability to compel people to follow you. I've never said anything about empires not being built by competent generals. So I don't know where you got that from.

They followed L-Elf out of necessity. They listened to Shoko back in episode 3 because they found her compelling. And going back to what I've said before L-Elf is a great general. But he's no leader of a nation.

[Thess]

Charisma is the ability to compel people to follow you. I've never said anything about empires not being built by competent generals. So I don't know where you got that from.

Shoko lacks this then, because they were about to lynch her in episode 5 and they all thought she was pretty stupid.

They listened to Shoko back in episode 3 because they found her compelling. And going back to what I've said before L-Elf is a great general. But he's no leader of a nation.

They listened to Shoko in episode 4 (not 3) because she was stripping and wanted her to stop. If she had real charisma, she wouldn't need to resort to stripping to be listened. They didn't follow L-Elf because he was an enemy soldier of the nation who attacked them and a perfect stranger. You're comparing apples and oranges situation. In his own group, L-Elf took the lead and the rest followed, even embracing his motto and decisions, even if A-drei tried hard L-Elf was the one who out-staged him (that's why hee was his friend and his rival). But now Shoko's the little girl hiding in a rocket while L-Elf's the face of the people who released the world from ignorance. I wonder who has better Marketing. Empires are, by the way, militarized and expansionist states. Who would you put in charge? Someone who is the head general like all actual empires do or someone whose best ability is a mean yokan recipe?

This isn't about Jior anymore or about what a pair of students think and how Shoko helped them with their track team. This is about a real nation which will become an Empire. Shoko has what it takes to be the leader of a class, but not even the leader of a school. Her charisma is extremely limited to "as long other people are happy."

I can live with that. Too many VVV pilots are kicking the bucket. I doubt Saki is the sole survivor of the original five.

I hope so at least. I would be pissed off if Akira dies and Iori becomes immortal and the Prince's godmother. :uhoh:

[Triple_R]

Edit: @Triple_R: I think it should have gone to Kibukawa and Nanami. Because nobody would take seriously a bunch of kids in the political arena unless they mean business. They might try to control those two but there wouldn't be a condescension involved.

Agreed.




Speaking on Kibukawa, I've seen plenty of people blaming Haruto about keeping quiet about secrets when they forget Kibukawa knew everything, was an adult (and not a confused and desperate teenager) and never spoke a single word about it. Even after episode 21, he doesn't bother to explain things to anyone.

Sometimes being a minor character is a great way to evade blame. :heh:

But you're right, Kibukawa's secrecy definitely hasn't helped, and he probably should have known better. He definitely had a lot less to stress over than Haruto did.

Really, Haruto's been great the last couple of episodes. I think he's been a strong lead character for the most part.


The election is stupid in the first place, it nothing more than just a popularity contest for which candidates that give the best speech that appeased the majority won. Shoko never really taken her position seriously until her father is killed there no psychological behind it, honesty Okouchi really have a beef with Democracy :heh:.

Yeah, there's definitely an anti-Democracy undercurrent to Valvrave. Even though I like Democracy, I think that Valvrave does a pretty good job of critiquing it. :heh:

[KleenexGhost]

Shoko lacks this then, because they were about to lynch her in episode 5 and they all thought she was pretty stupid.

They listened to Shoko in episode 3 because she was stripping and wanted her to stop. If she had real charisma, she wouldn't need to resort to stripping to be listened. They didn't follow L-Elf because he was an enemy soldier of the nation who attacked them. First impression matter.

But now Shoko's the useless little girl hiding in a rocket while L-Elf's the face of the people who released the world from ignorance. I wonder who has better Marketing.

But she sure wasn't stripping when she giving her campaign speech back in episode 10.

Better marketing? More like who didn't get butchered by the writing. But that's not the point.

And for what it's worth she still has a group of people that run to her when they don't know what to do. Granted you and I both know that it's a miserable state but she still does.

[Triple_R]

Shouko has high EQ (Emotional Quotient).

She's very good at emotionally connecting to other people, and determining what it is that they want and emotionally need. That's a great skill for a politician to have, especially when it comes to getting elected.

Unfortunately, her IQ does not match her EQ. :heh:


She's basically a normal, albeit somewhat quirky, girl that's been gifted with a high EQ, but not the other political skills needed to be a good leader of a nation (as such, she's perfectly designed for launching a critique of Democracy). She'd be great in marketing, or as a Head of State's Press Secretary, but she doesn't make a good Head of State herself.

[Thess]

But you're right, Kibukawa's secrecy definitely hasn't helped, and he probably should have known better. He definitely had a lot less to stress over than Haruto did.

I know. Haruto's emotional, afraid of being hated, afraid of hurting Shoko, confused and didn't know he was an experiment until recently which was a lot to sink in. He's also not very bright. Kibukawa knew it all since the beginning.

Really, Haruto's been great the last couple of episodes. I think he's been a strong lead character for the most part.

I agree he's getting better which is why fear he might die.

Yeah, there's definitely an anti-Democracy undercurrent to Valvrave. Even though I like Democracy, I think that Valvrave does a pretty good job of critiquing it. :heh:

Okouchi isn't very fond of democracy in general in his works. :heh:


But she sure wasn't stripping when she giving her campaign speech back in episode 10.

You mean when she told a bunch of kids they can ignore the issues at hand and still be kids still didn't get half of the votes and only won by a small margin? Yeah, anyone would be "popular" if they simply say what others want to listen. But Shoko's charisma doesn't work when she's not giving them what they want, that shows she actually can't compelled them to do whatever she wants.

That isn't "natural" charisma, because Shoko won those votes by her actions beforehand. I think Takahi has more charisma in general because she wins popularity without being a busybody, or maybe Saki. She helped them like cheering up for the team or things like that. Also this has nothing to do with L-Elf since he wasn't running because he's a refuge. He was waiting to get his new puppet figurehead that would replace Nanami.

And for what it's worth she still has a group of people that run to her when they don't know what to do. Granted you and I both know that it's a miserable state but she still does.

Only when they need her to give their face. They had no problems to undermine her when she wasn't in their plan as episode 21 shows. :)

They are like... 20-30 students top.

She's basically a normal, albeit somewhat quirky, girl that's been gifted with a high EQ, but not the other political skills needed to be a good leader of a nation (as such, she's perfectly designed for launching a critique of Democracy). She'd be great in marketing, or as a Head of State's Press Secretary, but she doesn't make a good Head of State herself.

Agreed. She'll be a great person to have in PR or Press as long you forbid her to strip under duress. :heh:

[KleenexGhost]

Shouko has high EQ (Emotional Quotient).

She's very good at emotionally connecting to other people, and determining what it is that they want and emotionally need. That's a great skill for a politician to have, especially when it comes to getting elected.

Unfortunately, her IQ does not match her EQ. :heh:

She's basically a normal, albeit somewhat quirky, girl that's been gifted with a high EQ, but not the other political skills needed to be a good leader of a nation (as such, she's perfectly designed for launching a critique of Democracy). She'd be great in marketing, or as a Head of State's Press Secretary, but she doesn't make a good Head of State herself.

And I agree with this 100%. That's why I've said just make her a figurehead, or campaign manager. She would be a good mouthpiece for someone.

[Thess]

And I agree with this 100%. That's why I've said just make her a figurehead, or campaign manager. She would be a good mouthpiece for someone.

Then I agree with you. The problem is when she tries to take charge for real and well, it backfires.

[MK-95-]

I hope so at least. I would be pissed off if Akira dies and Iori becomes immortal and the Prince's godmother. :uhoh:

Nah. she'd better kick the bucket. Its because of her & her little bakemono rebellion that Kyuuma bit the dust. If Satomi's wife is the godmother, then I hope its Takahi.

Akira has a 50/50 chance of making it out of this. By having Kyuuma & Thunder die, Sunrise basically said "she can suffer the same fate" or "well, since we killed these guys, we'll give her a free pass."

I'm leaning towards the latter.

[Thess]

Akira has a 50/50 chance of making it out of this. By having Kyuuma & Thunder die, Sunrise basically said "she can suffer the same fate" or "well, since we killed these guys, we'll give her a free pass."

I'm leaning towards the latter.

I hope so, I think for now she's safe because the broadcast hasn't ended yet. Maybe Cain one shoots her after the truth is unveiled. But she hasn't gotten any death flag yet, so. :heh:

[KleenexGhost]

You mean when she told a bunch of kids they can ignore the issues at hand and still be kids still didn't get half of the votes and only won by a small margin? Yeah, anyone would be "popular" if they simply say what others want to listen.

Rule of Democracy, my good sir. Tell people whatever they want to get the vote. :D

Only when they need her to give their face. They had no problems to undermine her when she wasn't in their plan as episode 21 shows. :)

They are like... 20-30 students top.

Like I said, miserable state. Correction, a very miserable state. :heh:

Honestly, I would join up with the Kamitsuki Empire and I've said that before. Which I hope they explain how they convert people if there's only 3 Valvraves left. At least until they potentially build more.

Then I agree with you. The problem is when she tries to take charge for real and well, it backfires. Yay! Hi-Five! :p Yeah, while she's a good mouthpiece she needs a good brain-piece for things to work.

[Thess]

Rule of Democracy, my good sir. Tell people whatever they want to get the vote. :D

I am aware, again. I'm not arguing about the choices of a couple of kids but I wouldn't call their attempts legitimately nation making. They did it almost as a game.

This talk reminds me to Machiavelli's quote in The Prince:

It is best to be both feared and loved; however, if one cannot be both it is better to be feared than loved.

It is much safer to be feared than loved because ...love is preserved by the link of obligation which, owing to the baseness of men, is broken at every opportunity for their advantage; but fear preserves you by a dread of punishment which never fails.

[KleenexGhost]

I am aware, again. I'm not arguing about the choices of a couple of kids but I wouldn't call their attempts legitimately nation making. They did it almost as a game.

This talk reminds me to Machiavelli's quote in The Prince:

She took advantage of students being students. While they are fighting for their lives, they still would probably wanna have fun. And she didn't even keep that promise! There was no festival. Well there was a festival of death :heh: I think I used that joke once before.

That quote could also be used to tie into how much the students needed L-Elf and the Kamitsuki for their protection.

[Thess]

She took advantage of students being students. While they are fighting for their lives, they still would probably wanna have fun. And she didn't even keep that promise! There was no festival. Well there was a festival of death :heh: I think I used that joke once before.

That quote could also be used to tie into how much the students needed L-Elf and the Kamitsuki for their protection.

Shoko wasn't taking advantage, she was pretty pressured to campaign because it's what they wanted earlier in the episode. :(

Not just Kamitsuki. ARUS is scared witless of the name "L-Elf." They would have paled and hesitated if New Jior would have used this knowledge to their advantage. Of course Haruto didn't tell them this bit. :heh:

[KleenexGhost]

Shoko wasn't taking advantage, she was pretty pressured to campaign because it's what they wanted earlier in the episode. :(

Not just Kamitsuki. ARUS is scared witless of the name "L-Elf." They would have paled and hesitated if New Jior would have used this knowledge to their advantage. Of course Haruto didn't tell them this bit. :heh:

That's true. If only they did throw in some plot twist that Shoko always wanted power and is partially going mad with it

Yeah, imagine Haruto saying "Leave us alone. Or, you gon' have to see my boy L-Elf! And we both know you guys don't want that. No, no, no."

[MK-95-]

I hope so, I think for now she's safe because the broadcast hasn't ended yet. Maybe Cain one shoots her after the truth is unveiled. But she hasn't gotten any death flag yet, so. :heh:

Yup, I'm hoping she's safe after that broadcast is finished. I'm still fearing Q-Vier coming after her though. He has some beef with her in episode 12 & now, she's got some beef with him. That isn't going to end well for someone.

Still, Q's Kirschbaum is in tatters right now, so he should be behaving himself...I guess?

[Triple_R]

Agreed. She'll be a great person to have in PR or Press as long you forbid her to strip under duress. :heh:

Yeah, that strip scene was always a head-scratcher for me. Not just Shouko's actions (which were boggling enough themselves), but Satomi's reaction to it as well. It's like he was truly scared at the prospect of seeing an undressed Shouko. :heh:


Nah. she'd better kick the bucket. Its because of her & her little bakemono rebellion that Kyuuma bit the dust. If Satomi's wife is the godmother, then I hope its Takahi.

Even if Iori lives, she has no chance with Satomi now. Iori is anti-Kamitsuki and Satomi's sister is a Kamitsuki.

By contrast, Takahi has taken the Kamitsuki reveal much, much better than the students on Shouko's ship. If Satomi ends up with anybody, it's almost certainly going to be Takahi. Although I have to admit their platonic friendship has grown on me (I honestly can't think of many other male/female platonic friendships in anime as natural and subtle as this one, so I kind of value it at that level now).


Akira has a 50/50 chance of making it out of this. By having Kyuuma & Thunder die, Sunrise basically said "she can suffer the same fate" or "well, since we killed these guys, we'll give her a free pass."

I'm leaning towards the latter.

My view is that you want the finale to have at least as much "Oomph!" as the episodes that came before it (ideally you want it to have more "Oomph!").

So, the episodes that came before it saw Kyuma and Thunder die.

That's pretty much begging for another Valvrave pilot to die in the final episode.

I personally think it's going to be Haruto.

But if it's not him... Let's just say I really doubt that both Haruto and Akira pull through. Saki has immunity for obvious reasons.

[DevilHighDxD]

Honesty I believe Haruto will lived another couple of years before dying, I'll mostly believe it due to Shoko's current circumstance she at the very least will do something in return for Haruto if she know he dying. I totally not hating or wanted her to died but I believe she will suffer the same fate as Flay which her death will benefit Haruto in someway whether it giving him her runes or motivated him to defeat Cain - run away quickly and hid~

But now I'm curious who L-elf will pick to start the royal family with, at first I think it Shoko but now I don't think it possible now.

[MK-95-]

Even if Iori lives, she has no chance with Satomi now. Iori is anti-Kamitsuki and Satomi's sister is a Kamitsuki.

True. I guess its just my paranoia that says Iori still has a chance. But now that you reminded me, yea, she doesn't stand a chance. We all know Akira is the first girl in Satomi's life before anyone else.

By contrast, Takahi has taken the Kamitsuki reveal much, much better than the students on Shouko's ship. If Satomi ends up with anybody, it's almost certainly going to be Takahi. Although I have to admit their platonic friendship has grown on me (I honestly can't think of many other male/female platonic friendships in anime as natural and subtle as this one, so I kind of value it at that level now).

This is also true. The Satomi/Takahi dynamic is the most platonic/natural friendship in this series. There are no complicated feelings, ulterior motives, partnerships, etc... So to have them hook up will ruin the most normal relationship in VVV.

I'm also content with the level it's at. But if he does have to marry someone, once it isn't Iori, I'm all good.

My view is that you want the finale to have at least as much "Oomph!" as the episodes that came before it (ideally you want it to have more "Oomph!").

So, the episodes that came before it saw Kyuma and Thunder die.

That's pretty much begging for another Valvrave pilot to die in the final episode.

I personally think it's going to be Haruto.

But if it's not him... Let's just say I really doubt that both Haruto and Akira pull through. Saki has immunity for obvious reasons.

If they're going for the overly dramatic finale, then yea, Akira's gonna die in all likelihood. If they're going for the somewhat happy end where you get the "after the storm, there is always a rainbow" feeling, then Akira's chances of survival are high.

It all depends the route Sunrise selects.

[Thess]

Takahi and Satomi grew up a lot. Makes me proud, honestly.

Honesty I believe Haruto will lived another couple of years before dying, I'll mostly believe it due to Shoko's current circumstance she at the very least will do something in return for Haruto if she know he dying. I totally not hating or wanted her to died but I believe she will suffer the same fate as Flay which her death will benefit Haruto in someway whether it giving him her runes or motivated him to defeat Cain - run away quickly and hid~

But now I'm curious who L-elf will pick to start the royal family with, at first I think it Shoko but now I don't think it possible now.

It doesn't have to be a named character. His wife or not (it can be a test tube kid) isn't important. Hell, he might even adopt all those Karlstein kids and offer them a place to stay without that toxic brainwashing unless A-drei takes care of that. I'm sure Saki would be delighted to be with them. She seemed affected by that place. If he does become a ruler, he'll marry someone with political standing (maybe one of the princesses of Dorssia or Kriemhild who is the leader of the royalists).

I also think Haruto will live for a while, almost tempted to say he might co-rule (a diarchy like Sparta, Rome too and Catharge, but Sparta is more a famous case) and the Prince is the union of the houses, but he didn't make reference of a kamitsuki ancestor in his conversation. It was the contrary impression I got. I wonder if once they receive the blessing they can have children.

[~BC~]

I totally not hating or wanted her to died but I believe she will suffer the same fate as Flay which her death will benefit Haruto in someway whether it giving him her runes or motivated him to defeat Cain.

Haruto is already motivated. All Shoko's death can do at this rate is demotivate him or simply have no effect due to memory loss. And Haruto already has a rune source that's conveniently closer to him than Shoko right now.

[Thess]

How can it demotivate him? It'll destroy all his hesitation to spend his runes. But you're right, Shoko's got better things to do like mope and brood helplessly.

http://i.imgur.com/sjXXvdq.jpg

[DevilHighDxD]

Takahi and Satomi grew up a lot. Makes me proud, honestly.



It doesn't have to be a named character. His wife or not (it can be a test tube kid) isn't important. Hell, he might even adopt all those Karlstein kids and offer them a place to stay without that toxic brainwashing. I'm sure Saki would be delighted to be with them. She seemed affected by that place. If he does become a ruler, he'll marry someone with political standing (maybe one of the princesses of Dorssia or Kriemhild who is the leader of the royalists).

I also think Haruto will live for a while, almost tempted to say he might co-rule (like Sparta had two rulers as system) and the Prince is the union of the houses, but he didn't make reference of a kamitsuki ancestor in his conversation. It was the contrary impression I got. I wonder if once they receive the blessing they can have children.

I believe Pino will have something to do with the reproduction which is the thing Cain keep mumbling about in season 1. Pino give the blessing and the Kamitsuki couple do their thing similar to episode 10 but less rougher.

Also it OF cOURE ImportAnT It ABOut L-elf's wife for god sake! Please don't be a random girl and especially please don't just skip to the future epilogue saying "Your ancestor L-elf hook up with this girl and bang you are here.", I'll flip every tables on my sight.

[~BC~]

It'll destroy all his hesitation to spend his runes.

Being alarmed by his memories disappearing and fighting anyway is not a sign of hesitation. But you were obviously looking for another excuse to take a pot shot at Shoko.:rolleyes:

[Thess]

Also it OF cOURE ImportAnT It ABOut L-elf's wife for god sake! Please don't be a random girl and especially please don't just skip to the future epilogue saying "Your ancestor L-elf hook up with this girl and bang you are here.", I'll flip every tables on my sight.

L-Elf's wife isn't important because I doubt he'll love her. He'll marry for political reasons (like good royals do), adopt a kid or test tube baby. He's a pragmatic man. I'm sure he'll love his children, nevertheless. L-Elf's extremely passionate and caring to those things he's driven to protect underneath his cold exterior. The only important matter is if the Prince descends from L-Elf or not, who his grandmother is isn't pertinent. I doubt his ancestry will be mentioned, but if gets addressed and he's related to L-Elf, Saki would make a comment of "your grandfather/great grandfather was the first human who gave us a place to live" something like that. :heh:

Speaking of Pino and Prue. What would be their fates?

[DevilHighDxD]

Being alarmed by his memories disappearing and fighting anyway is not a sign of hesitation. But you were obviously looking for another excuse to take a pot shot at Shoko.:rolleyes:

No what I meant is like is like Haruto is getting his ass kicked in the first round, but seeing Shoko get killed by Cain and maybe a Newtype Shoko's encouragement too. Haruto will defeat Cain like how Kira defeat Rau. Rage make everyone powerful :D.


Speaking of Pino and Prue. What would be their fates?

I'm going for a cliche they used to be one single being but separated into two route.

L-Elf's wife isn't important because I doubt he'll love her. He'll marry for political reasons (like good royals do), adopt a kid or test tube baby. He's a pragmatic man. I'm sure he'll love his children, nevertheless. L-Elf's extremely passionate and caring to those things he's driven to protect underneath his cold exterior. The only important matter is if the Prince descends from L-Elf or not, who his grandmother is isn't pertinent. I doubt his ancestry will be mentioned, but if gets addressed and he's related to L-Elf, Saki would make a comment of "your grandfather/great grandfather was the first human who gave us a place to live" something like that. :heh:

I'm inclined to believe that founder Saki is talking isn't L-elf but Haruto. She said that the founder lose a lot of his comrades in the battle for Module 77 which we obvious know who that is. If Saki were to described L-elf she'll had said something else. Saki is closer to Haruto than L-elf, so it make sense for her to talk about her lover founder first than the non-lover founder :heh:.

[~BC~]

No what I meant is like is like Haruto is getting his ass kicked in the first round, but seeing Shoko get killed by Cain and maybe a Newtype Shoko's encouragement too. Haruto will defeat Cain like how Kira defeat Rau. Rage make everyone powerful :D.

That post wasn't directed at you. As to a Newtype ghost, I've already made my feelings on this clear (don't care for it) and the show has never quite gone there either. All the "ghosts" we've seen are depicted as figments of the imagination/conscience (Aina in ep. 9 comes the closest though). And I'd rather they not waste time on a heartfelt Newtype Shoko that most of the audience won't care for anyway.

[Thess]

I'm inclined to believe that founder Saki is talking isn't L-elf but Haruto. She said that the founder lose a lot of his comrades in the battle for Module 77 which we obvious know who that is. If Saki were to described L-elf she'll had said something else. Saki is closer to Haruto than L-elf, so it make sense for her to talk about her lover founder first than the non-lover founder :heh:.

She said nakama. Haruto said L-Elf was their nakama. Saki obviously considers him a nakama by her reaction in episode 22 to see him too. Also the Founder seems just kamitsuki related. So really I don't know what one thing correlates to the other?

I hope that Pino and Prue survive, they are victims in this whole mess.

[DevilHighDxD]

That post wasn't directed at you. As to a Newtype ghost, I've already made my feelings on this clear (don't care for it) and the show has never quite gone there either. All the "ghosts" we've seen are depicted as figments of the imagination/conscience (Aina in ep. 9 comes the closest though). And I'd rather they not waste time on a heartfelt Newtype Shoko that most of the audience won't care for anyway.

Well it was because of my other post Thess said that, I did say it will be similar to Flay's death which is why I said about the Newtype ghost thingy. I could be wrong but I want Shoko to do something at least :uhoh:.

She said nakama. Haruto said L-Elf was their nakama. Saki obviously considers him a nakama by her reaction in episode 22 to see him too. Also the Founder seems just kamitsuki related. So really I don't know what one thing correlates to the other?

I hope that Pino and Prue survive, they are victims in this whole mess.

But L-elf does consider Yamada, Kyuuma, Marie and many others students who died during the conflict as his friends? Haruto yes, but so far it only Haruto who show concerned over their death not L-elf not even one bit.

I don't cared what happened to Prue but I want Pino to survived :D.

[Thess]

But L-elf does consider Yamada, Kyuuma, Marie and many others students who died during the conflict as his friends? Haruto yes, but so far it only Haruto who show concerned over their death not L-elf not even one bit.

I don't cared what happened to Prue but I want Pino to survived :D.

Oh. Nakama isn't friends, it has a comrade-in-arms connotations. Since they were in the mission and they have been fighting together since episode 8, they are indeed nakama. Haruto said in season 2 that L-Elf is their nakama. Saki, also, doesn't know all details of what happened. All she knows is that L-Elf cared for her enough to leave her Carmilla and really detailed instructions behind. Why wouldn't she? He's the one telling her "Please return soon, we need you." He's also the one who is slitting the throat of the person who broadcast her execution on Live. Not Haruto. ;) Just because she has romantic feelings for Haruto, it doesn't mean she doesn't have gratitude and respect towards L-Elf (I actually enjoyed how subtle their relationship improved without some drastic-emphasis, it felt natural). But I agree she might be talking about Haruto, she actually said our (kamitsuki-referenced) founder, Founder.

Again, I don't see the reason of the derail of the talk. L-Elf is still the first human being who is fighting for them to have a place to live in harmony, Haruto isn't human.

Pino would be sad if her oniichan dies. :(

[DevilHighDxD]

Oh. Nakama isn't friends, it has a comrade-in-arms connotations. Since they were in the mission and they have been fighting together since episode 8, they are indeed nakama. Haruto said in season 2 that L-Elf is their nakama. Saki, also, doesn't know all details of what happened. All she knows is that L-Elf cared for her enough to leave her Carmilla and really detailed instructions behind. Why wouldn't she? He's the one telling her "Please return soon, we need you." Not Haruto. ;)

Pino would be sad if her oniichan dies. :(

Don't want to drag this on but in a short summary, I meant Haruto valued them more as comrade and friend than L-elf ever will be. L-elf left that note because well their military is really only consist of her and 4 more pilots, of course he need her to be alive. But after Lise died, I doubt he'll cared much until now.

Well Pino, you can always make Haruto your new oniichan If Prue is dead :D.

[Thess]

Don't want to drag this on but in a short summary, I meant Haruto valued them more as comrade and friend than L-elf ever will be. L-elf left that note because well their military is really only consist of her and 4 more pilots, of course he need her to be alive. But after Lise died, I doubt he'll cared much until now.

He can find replacements for pilots. That he left behind Carmilla to Saki is extremely unusual from L-Elf who always talks about replacing people. :heh:

[DevilHighDxD]

He can find replacements for pilots. That he left behind Carmilla to Saki is extremely unusual from L-Elf who always talks about replacing people. :heh:

Well finding another pilot mean the stuff about the Kamitsuki need to be revealed to that person unless it a urgent like Haruto losing runes. We do know well enough on L-elf's stand on revealing secret about them. If it can be saved why risked the secret being exposed? I wish L-elf will cared though, but unless the name is Lise it either expendable pawn or disposable garbage.

[Thess]

Well finding another pilot mean the stuff about the Kamitsuki need to be revealed to that person unless it a urgent like Haruto losing runes. We do know well enough on L-elf's stand on revealing secret about them. If it can be saved why risked the secret being exposed? I wish L-elf will cared though, but unless the name is Lise it either expendable pawn or disposable garbage.

He didn't mind Satomi to be a pilot. Pretty sure he spoke of the kamitsuki openly in his presence which Kyuuma hushed him about. He cares about his team mates, though, including Q-vier.

[DevilHighDxD]

He didn't mind Satomi to be a pilot. Pretty sure he spoke of the kamitsuki openly in his presence which Kyuuma hushed him about. He cares about his team mates, though, including Q-vier.

Well so far only H-neun kicked the bucket, if it true then it mean more will die next episode. But I'm more attached to the Kamitsuki than the backstreet boys so whether they lived or not it none of my concerned. Well more important detail stuff like immortally will need to be kept secret.

[Thess]

Well so far only H-neun kicked the bucket, if it true then it mean more will die next episode. But I'm more attached to the Kamitsuki than the backstreet boys so whether they lived or not it none of my concerned. Well more important detail stuff like immortally will need to be kept secret.

L-Elf didn't care after they were made pilots. That's why he was fine with Marie knowing afterwards. He could have replaced Saki with ease, I am a bit curious if this action wasn't out of character of him because he left a Valvrave behind. Of course, it was on their benefit eventually (since Saki rescued them in episode 22). I still don't know what this has to do with anything: Saki has her proof L-Elf cares and she is happy to see him again (plus check my quick edit before you replied: I agree she was talking about Haruto, but still don't know what it has to do with L-Elf being the first human being who is fighting to create that country. Haruto's not human). I think her time with A-drei helped her to grasp his modus operandi including how they are supposed to repress themselves and control their emotional outbursts as a way to survive. Of all characters, Saki understands this.

[Key Board]

I think the show is trying to say that real trust can be developed by fighting (and bleeding) together

Look at the difference of reaction between Satomi's yellow transport and Shoko's shuttle to Kamitsuki

Edit: speaking of which, I would have liked to see Takahi's personal reaction to meeting Saki again
Ie: Is THAT why you bit me, back then?!
or the nerds reaction towards Akira

[DevilHighDxD]

It doesn't have to do with L-elf, she can simply just teach about Haruto first and then L-elf later. It her to choose not us. It could be the Kamitsuki's influence is more prominent as we can tell by the runes symbol and the Valvrave's symbol which is the things that associated with the Kamitsuki so Saki decide to tell the prince her side AKA Haruto's history. Regarding L-elf's feeling toward the Kamitsukis and the students, it is quite ambiguous to tell. One moment here he want to abandoned Akira to not go off course and then all of sudden he cared for Saki and left a instruction for her, it could just be for plot reason. Even if it is I doubt we can say the same for the rest. L-elf certainly can cared I won't denied that but definitely not to the same level to his Karlstern's buddies which is the comrade/friend level. But recent development certainly has L-elf put them more closer to that level. So yeah, unless L-elf can give us a answer it a IDK I guess.

[Thess]

It doesn't have to do with L-elf, she can simply just teach about Haruto first and then L-elf later. It her to choose not us. It could be the Kamitsuki's influence is more prominent as we can tell by the runes symbol and the Valvrave's symbol which is the things that associated with the Kamitsuki so Saki decide to tell the prince her side AKA Haruto's history. Regarding L-elf's feeling toward the Kamitsukis and the students, it is quite ambiguous to tell. One moment here he want to abandoned Akira to not go off course and then all of sudden he cared for Saki and left a instruction for her, it could just be for plot reason. Even if it is I doubt we can say the same for the rest. L-elf certainly can cared I won't denied that but definitely not to the same level to his Karlstern's buddies which is the comrade/friend level. But recent development certainly has L-elf put them more closer to that level. So yeah, unless L-elf can give us a answer it a IDK I guess.

I don't understand what you're arguing anymore.

The only important matter is if the Prince descends from L-Elf or not, who his grandmother is isn't pertinent. I doubt his ancestry will be mentioned, but if gets addressed and he's related to L-Elf, Saki would make a comment of "your grandfather/great grandfather was the first human who gave us a place to live" something like that. :heh:

Quoting myself (with emphasis on keywords) because nothing you're stating has anything to do with your objection to this. Saki's romantic mooning for Haruto has nothing to do with her potential respect for L-Elf. Kriemhild respected and admired Lieselotte but she wasn't in love with her. I hope it's clear. As far as Saki is concerned, by the way, L-Elf is the only one who displayed concern and thoughtfulness when she was missing (Haruto did to the viewer, but he left no evidence to this to Saki). He's also the reason she was released. Akira didn't, nor did Kyuuma or Yamada. In other words, it has little to do with Saki's professional relationship with him. Satomi respects him a great deal too and I'm sure that Akira would since he is the only human who is trying right now to build her wish: a place where she belongs.

I don't see the point to mention who did L-Elf marry or not because it's not really important to the Empire. So really I don't know why did you even bring up Haruto to the conversation.

[Triple_R]

While it would be nice if L-Elf's wife was a named character of some significance, I'm not sure who that could be at this juncture. I mean, let's just go through the entire female cast (surviving members). :heh:

1) Shouko? I know that a lot of people liked L-Elf/Shouko, and I did myself for awhile, but this ship would seem awfully forced at this point, given all the Haruto/Shouko focus of recent episodes.

2) Saki? Saki has clearly shown more interest in Haruto than in anybody else. And there hasn't been many interactions between L-Elf and Saki. It would be almost completely out of nowhere. I don't get the impression that either L-Elf or Saki fans would want it, either.

3) Akira? Even more out of nowhere than Saki. Although Satomi might like this, lol.

4) Takahi? Same issue as Saki and Akira.

5) Rion? Funny thought, but no, lol.

6) Kriemheld? Well, L-Elf does like calling her, so this might have a tiny chance, lol.

7) Iori? Ha ha ha ha... No.

8) Non-Iori member of Takahi/Satomi's entourages? Not really much difference than putting him with someone completely new.


So, yeah, L-Elf's wife isn't likely to be somebody of much significance.

[DevilHighDxD]

I don't understand what you're arguing anymore.



Quoting myself (with emphasis on keywords) because nothing you're stating has anything to do with your objection to this. Saki's romantic mooning for Haruto has nothing to do with her potential respect for L-Elf. Kriemhild respected and admired Lieselotte but she wasn't in love with her. I hope it's clear. As far as Saki is concerned, by the way, L-Elf is the only one who displayed concern and thoughtfulness when she was missing (Haruto did to the viewer, but he left no evidence to this to Saki). He's also the reason she was released. Akira didn't, nor did Kyuuma or Yamada. In other words, it has little to do with Saki's professional relationship with him. Satomi respects him a great deal too and I'm sure that Akira would since he is the only human who is trying right now to build her wish: a place where she belongs.

I don't see the point to mention who did L-Elf marry or not because it's not really important to the Empire. So really I don't know why did you even bring up Haruto to the conversation.

Oh I mention Haruto because L-elf could be the prince's ancestor which you doubt they will tell us about it when they can be just talking about Haruto without mentioning L-elf. I guess I could be more specific.

The concerned for L-elf's future spouse is really a personal one, L-elf's and Lise's relationship is one of the good thing about the show contrast to the terrible triangle drama. I personality don't want them to cheapen it by just hooking him up with any random girl and calling it a end.

I guess this happened because we went derail from the topic, my bad my bad. :D

[Thess]

I guess this happened because we went derail from the topic, my bad my bad. :D

It's ok! It's ok! I was confused by the topic jump. :heh:

I'm getting ready for Sunrise to troll the fanbase in the worst way: Q-vier killing Cain and surviving, Akira dying and Iori becoming Mrs. Godmother, Haruto permajacking L-Elf so he can be with Shoko as the rulers and Shoko eventually jacking Saki because why not look after her descendants? And her promise is another made to the future to the poor Saki.

[Triple_R]

It's ok! It's ok! I was confused by the topic jump. :heh:

I'm getting ready for Sunrise to troll the fanbase in the worst way: Q-vier killing Cain and surviving, Akira dying and Iori becoming Mrs. Godmother, Haruto permajacking L-Elf so he can be with Shoko as the rulers and Shoko eventually jacking Saki because why not look after her descendants? And her promise is another made to the future to the poor Saki.

So Haruto in L-Elf's body ends up with Shouko in Saki's body? Interesting way to bring the Core Four together. :heh:

Anyway, if you're right on even 3/4s of this, I'll laugh pretty hard, lol.

[Mad Pierrot]

The theory of Shoko in Saki's body is weird considering Future Saki talked about Shoko in third person. However, Future Saki remembers a promise which could either be Haruto and Saki's promise or that promise Shoko made in season 1.... If the Shoko in Saki's body theory is true then I'm afraid Sunrise became the Troll Masters. Their work in Gintama probably affected them.

[LightDragonman]

I think that Sunrise still has yet to shake of their Code Geass plot influences that have tainted all of their works since 2008. much like Frank Miller with Sin City. They spent so much time working on CG that I'm not quite sure that they know what to do now that it is finished. XD

[Mad Pierrot]

I can't stop thinking about the theory of Shoko in Saki's body... God I'm nervous. XD

The one of Haruto in Eruerufu's body or just looking like him kind of makes sense to me though considering how the series talked about Runes.

[LightDragonman]

I really hope the whole Shouko in Saki's body isn't true. The latter is far more interesting.

Plus, that would mean that Shouko becomes a Kamitsuki.

[Thess]

I'd favor amnesiac Haruto in Shoko's body. That's why Saki starts a belated "naked relationship" with Shoko! :heh:

The theory of Shoko in Saki's body is weird considering Future Saki talked about Shoko in third person.

She never did. Only about Marie and the Founder.

[kiak666]

So since the finale is approaching, here's my speculation on what's going to happen on the final battle:

1) Akira manages to spread the broadcast to the whole world before being attacked by Q-Vier again.
2) Haruto attempts to help Akira, but was intercepted by Cain in the Dainsrave.
3) Akira fights Q-Vier and managed to avenge Yamada, but Hiasobi will no longer be able to fight due to sustaining heavy damage.
4) Hito and Dainsrave fight their way into the module, with Cain dominating.
5) Saki, with possible help from the Royalist forces, managed to break through the Kirschbaum squadron just in time to help Haruto, but Cain still proves to be too powerful and manages to inflict serious damage on Hinowa.
6) Realising that Cain is too powerful, Haruto orders Saki to retreat and retrieve Akira back to safety while he holds off Cain.
7) After Saki reluctantly leaves with Akira, the battle between Hito and Dainsrave continues.
8) Just when Dainsrave is about to deal the finishing blow, A-Drei and X-Eins arrive in their respective Kirschbaum to intervene.
9) While Cain is busy fighting his two former students, L-Elf lets Haruto to drain his Rune.
10) Cain managed to kill X-Eins, and before he can do the same to A-Drei, a recharged Haruto intervenes.
11) Hito vs Dainsrave continues, with Haruto fighting on a more even term now thanks to his Rune being recharged, even inflicting some damage on Dainsrave.
12) Realising that Haruto is becoming a serious threat, Cain uses his Rune to unleash Dainsrave's full potential, gaining the upper hand again.
13) When all seems lost, Haruto suddenly remembers his promise to Saki to not give up till the bitter end, as well as his feelings towards Shouko.
14) With this resolve, Haruto pushes for a counterattack and subconsciously uses his Rune to power up Hito.
15) Both sides now fight with everything they got, and their Runes are starting to deplete as a result.
16) Realising that they have to finished off their opponents quickly due to Rune shortage, both sides decide to charge at one another with full power to deal the finishing blow. The resulting clash creates a massive explosion of Rune, ending the battle.
17) The results of the battle may vary, maybe both pilots were killed or only Cain dies while Haruto loses majority of his memories.Admittedly, I didn't factored Pino and Prue into these speculations, so we'll just have to wait and see....

[Thess]

So, idea/speculation so some people don't accuse me as a mindless Shoko hater (although admittedly, I'm not fond of her anymore). Since she's driven as spiritual heir of Jior (her efforts rather than strengthen New Jior were to recover the old one, think about the aim of her actions and campaigns) and there has been some foreshadowing of Haruto's and Shoko's paths will drift apart, do you think she'll just accept to be a refuge in the Third Galactic Empire? Maybe she has already chosen and she'll stay with those who wouldn't join the new country for her "duty". A-drei and the royalists could help her restore Jior while they clean the mess in Dorssia if necessary.

Just a thought. It doesn't mean she won't visit the Module and the Empire, but she might not go with them. Naturally, the cliché would say she goes with them, but if she has chosen already Jior and the show wouldn't just present her as a dramatic plot device for her melodramatic romance, there's no place for Jior anyone in that Third Reich, for starters, the flag is another, the uniforms look like a combination of Dorssian style and New Jior style to be a new one (at least in the Prince clothing). I don't expect the writing to be stellar and her characterization is already a mess, but this would at least salvage her face without walking all over the other character's feelings as she did. It just seems that, to me, the Empire isn't about Earth, but reaches modules and planets away from it. Jior is on Earth.

That way she'll be far more useful as potential political or press-worthy (as late Prime Minister daughter) ally in a nation, similar to A-drei in Dorssia. I was trying to wreck my brains to find something that could salvage her characterization a little that doesn't reduce Shoko to weepy and useless romantic love interest or to super Mary Sue who saves the day even if contradicts what is previously established to troll the fans. This is what I came with. There are some vague parallels with A-drei established.

Another important thing to take into account: the events of the current episodes take place during August. They still have months to build the first model of nation on their first territory, the Module. So I expect a timeskip that isn't the flashforward.

[Triple_R]

@Thess - It's an interesting thought. It would be both fitting and ironic.

Fitting since the last few episodes she's essentially been comforting, and reflecting the wishes of, those Jiorian/Module 77 survivors who have had the hardest time accepting the new Kamitsuki reality. That's the path she has chosen, even if somewhat coerced into it, and so perhaps it would make sense for her to follow that path to its logical conclusion (i.e. your speculation).

The irony to it is that the Kamitsuki exist because of old JIOR. You could even say that the Kamitsuki are the lasting legacy of Shouko's own father! But even this irony could make things fitting in a way - "To make amends for the sins of my father, I will restore JIOR to how it was prior to the horrible human experimentation that happened under his leadership. JIOR will now be free from Dorssia, and renewed from the actions it took that made it a target for Dorssia."

So it's a good speculation, Thess. I think there is some chance of it at least, though I do think it's a bit more likely that Shouko will side with the Kamitsuki in the end.

[Thess]

So it's a good speculation, Thess. I think there is some chance of it at least, though I do think it's a bit more likely that Shouko will side with the Kamitsuki in the end.

I am aware of this would likely happen, but I object it because she should have sided before the broadcast (there's also the suspicious silence of Haruto or anyone telling Shoko the plans of a new nation). After the broadcast looks cheap and half-heartened attempt that wouldn't endear her at all. She'll just be another politician saving face. Secondly, would all the students want to be part of that nation? It's a bit too clean and perfect wrap up which feels insincere. What would Shoko do? She's already sided not with the majority but with those around her in that rocket. And I'm also re-watching season 2 and Shoko had no intentions to make new Jior a new nation. She declared the place the successor of Jior and her political campaigns other than get funds for food (which Saki and Kyuuma took care of mostly) were about condemn Dorssia to get Jior back to the state prior the occupation. Naturally, all this can be swept under the rug on her primary role as Haruto's love interest. It doesn't mean she'll frown down the kamitsuki, I'm sure she won't, but she might not be part of that new country which is meant to be a blank slate.

[MK-95-]

How 'bout this for a future plot point.

Humans (Earth) vs the Third Galactic Reich (Human/Kamitsuki/Magius(?) coexistence) vs Jior remnants (Modified humans with potential to become Kamitsuki, but kept their humanity) Therefore creating a three-way power struggle in the future. Humans vs Monsters vs Disgraces to humanity.

Of course that's if Shoko decides to go against the Kamitsuki. We know Earth won't take them back, so they'll be on their own. [Only problem with that is, there's only a few people that make up their forces, so how do they become a rival power? Well, 200 years is a lot of time to gather sympathizers &/or reproduce...I guess?]

OR

She sides with the remnants of the Dorssia/ARUS alliance that refuses to become part of the 3GR. (Effectively creating a Principality of Zeon/Neo Zeon type situation. Sorry, couldn't help but draw the parallel.)

[Thess]

Dorssia/ARUS alliance that refuses to become part of the 3GR. (Effectively creating a Principality of Zeon/Neo Zeon type situation. Sorry, couldn't help but draw the parallel.)

A-drei and the Royalists are allies of L-Elf. Dorssia wouldn't be an enemy, I think. They only object the Magius in power of their country. Not sure about ARUS, this might be trickier. Jior might be fine with them too if Shoko and the other kids eventually play a hand in this: they could keep friendly relationships. Plus, Earth has only 30% of the total population. There could be some module-colony near Saturn which has become an enemy to the Galactic Reich (which is what Saki fought). But it doesn't seem likely Earth is part of the Galactic Reich when the Prince didn't know the planet until Saki explanation. The balance of power is going to change after the reveal of the upstairs corruptions, it wouldn't surprise me if some countries and space-colonies leave ARUS or Dorssia (or what was JIOR) to form new independent nations. Since the knight Saki fought had a crest in italian or spanish (iirc), it's not connected to Dorssia or Jior (if was Dorssia, it would be in German and the royal family crest is different). JIOR likewise has a different emblem.

[MK-95-]

A-drei and the Royalists are allies of L-Elf. Dorssia wouldn't be an enemy, I think. They only object the Magius in power of their country. Not sure about ARUS, this might be trickier. Jior might be fine with them too if Shoko and the other kids eventually play a hand in this: they could keep friendly relationships. Plus, Earth has only 30% of the total population. There could be some module-colony near Saturn which has become an enemy to the Galactic Reich (which is what Saki fought). But it doesn't seem likely Earth is part of the Galactic Reich when the Prince didn't know the planet until Saki explanation. The balance of power is going to change after the reveal of the upstairs corruptions, it wouldn't surprise me if some countries and space-colonies leave ARUS or Dorssia (or what was JIOR) to form new independent nations. Since the knight Saki fought had a crest in italian or spanish (iirc), it's not connected to Dorssia or Jior (if was Dorssia, it would be in German and the royal family crest is different). JIOR likewise has a different emblem.

Dorssia has two factions, the King's faction (Royalists) & the dictatorship. While Amadeus has been revealed as a monster, there are people who are loyal to the system itself & not the leader. So Dorssia can be divided into two separate nations when this is over.

ARUS is another story altogether. Yup, the Jior remnants can side with them if anything. That's is they're willing to side with potential monsters.

Also, a lot happens in 200 years. So the formation of new nations or hybrid nations is another very real possibility. Well, I guess, we'll just have to wait & see.

[~BC~]

The irony to it is that the Kamitsuki exist because of old JIOR. You could even say that the Kamitsuki are the lasting legacy of Shouko's own father! But even this irony could make things fitting in a way - "To make amends for the sins of my father, I will restore JIOR to how it was prior to the horrible human experimentation that happened under his leadership. JIOR will now be free from Dorssia, and renewed from the actions it took that made it a target for Dorssia."

I think I'd rather know what Ryuji's original intention was with the project before I'd go with this idea. Despite the whole experimentation thing, the Sakimori students seem fairly well adjusted for the most part. While I've no doubt shady practices were involved as far as getting consent and the like, it's not unthinkable that some of the parents and Ryuji himself may have seen this as a positive towards their childrens' futures. Like the benefits some might want regarding a designer baby; better health, IQ, etc. (though there's a gray area there as well). Basically a less extreme and more humane desire than what Papa Tokishima wanted. In that event, Shoko might not feel the need to amend because she'll finally understand the deeper meaning behind his words, "your future is not behind you". Actually, given how the Module was specifically set aside for the project it's entirely likely that a Kamitsuki/human co-existence was always Ryuji's intent. Which brings me to Pino and Prue. I've been wondering if Pino and Prue did not originally consent to participating in the project (in the hopes the humans might figure out a way to get them back home) but due to the whole system reset causing memory problems neither remembers this. So when Cain grabs Prue he's able to take advantage of this. But since Pino is slowly regaining her vocabulary maybe it's possible she'll remember the full details of how she came to be in the machine.

Basically, I don't think we can gauge how Shoko will act until she knows the full details of the project; not just Haruto's personal circumstances about how he became a pilot. And I think this Wild Card status is exactly what the writers wanted. It's still possible she might not react well to the news at all although I don't quite get that feeling. I could see her getting killed if she tries to bring the other students around though.

[Thess]

Actually, given how the Module was specifically set aside for the project it's entirely likely that a Kamitsuki/human co-existence was always Ryuji's intent.

All potential future kamitsuki are secretly trained to pilot the models built underneath the grounds? That doesn't sound like co-existence project to me, because he isolated them on purpose (and they knew very little of History or the world, their ignorance about Dorssia's history really highlights this). The Module was a secret military base. They were being trained to fight and flight, only five Valvrave were finished because the project was ongoing. They kept scores of their weakness and strengths for the weapons which L-Elf used to pick the most suitable pilots when he found them.

It sounds he was raising an army for his nation which was completely oblivious of this. He might have had second thoughts after he raised Shoko, nonetheless, he still made a military project using human experimentation and allowing the abuse of eugenics which led to what happened to Marie. You can't trust adults. That's the moral of the show: Nanami is an exception because she was originally a student character :P One nation breeds "monsters", another raises kids as killing machines, other slaughters children with little justification. The children are the victims and occasionally the heroes. Q-vier and Iori, despite their antagonistic roles, are victims.

I think his death was probably retroactive karma for his actions and why he was so accepting to embrace it: it was poetic justice he was slain by the same weapon he manufactured to build without his daughter's support. I doubt they'll explore or care to explain his hand in this, so that point is moot. Nobody knows. There's far too much more important stuff to wrap up than the goal of a one shot dead character. Dorssia mentioned they were all experiments this episode and nobody batted an eyelash or cared about the information. Also I don't think Shoko will go to Jior, if she does, because of her father's sins, but because she's always been identified with Jior and her goals were always looking at Jior, other than survival of course. Of course she can drop this and be the girlfriend who made us waste time in pretending she's the Prime Minister of anything when she just would drop this and become a girl now her boyfriend has started a new nation she'll run to weeping for his help. Or sweep under the rug further her former portrayal because what's another derail for drama's sake? There's no easy way to salvage her characterization when she barely has a few minutes of screentime this season and the finale won't be about her when you have the Magius broadcast, Q-vier and Cain battles to wrap up in less than 24 minutes. We're racing against the clock and Shoko will probably get 3 minutes of screentime if we're generous.

Valvrave website used to have information of Pino and Prue experiments, iirc, they weren't willing at all.

Edit: Wait, I found the canonical info about the project. It's pretty much as I said. Congressman Sashinami Ryuuji proposed the project 20 years ago when they discovered Pino and Prue shipwreck (plus the rune particles) to protect Jior from the opposing nations (ARUS and Dorssia), it was developed in absolutely secrecy to protect the nation's neutrality stance. That's why the students were modified and gathered in Module 77 under certain pretences for the proposed project. He had a militaristic and nationalistic goal. Did he have a change of heart like Iori's dad? Probably. Haruto's father's goal was different, but it didn't conflict with Ryuuji's. If he regretted it, it was probably in the end, because the laboratory research continued validated by his government in secret in the facilities underground which was the reason why they got attacked. He endangered those kids lives with his ambition.

[~BC~]

All potential future kamitsuki are secretly trained to pilot the models built underneath the grounds? That doesn't sound like co-existence project to me, because he isolated them on purpose (and they knew very little of History or the world, their ignorance about Dorssia's history really highlights this).

The Module had potential kamitsuki and regular humans as residents, so yeah, I think it's very possible that they were expected to co-exist. The isolation only went in so far as keeping the test pilot stuff secret from the other students. Once Marie was no longer being used in that capacity she was free to roam where she pleased. The circumstances are suspect to be sure but they weren't treated with the level of restraint/isolation you'd expect if they were considered as "others" to be feared/reviled as they currently are.

They were being trained to fight and flight, only five Valvrave were finished because the project was ongoing.
The idea was to have a small but powerful force; I doubt they intended for every student to have a machine especially given how the Valvraves' power source works.

Dorssia mentioned they were all experiments this episode and nobody batted an eyelash or cared about the information.

Why should they care considering the source? And they can touch on Ryuji's character since they still have Pino and Prue's backstory to explain which is tied to the project. I don't expect it but it's possible. I'm not getting my hopes up.

Also I don't think Shoko will go to Jior, if she does, because of her father's sins, but because she's always been identified with Jior and her goals were always looking at Jior, other than survival of course.

So has everyone else on the module not named L-Elf.

[Thess]

The Module had potential kamitsuki and regular humans as residents, so yeah, I think it's very possible that they were expected to co-exist. The isolation only went in so far as keeping the test pilot stuff secret from the other students. Once Marie was no longer being used in that capacity she was free to roam where she pleased. The circumstances are suspect to be sure but they weren't treated with the level of restraint/isolation you'd expect if they were considered as "others" to be feared/reviled as they currently are.

Ryuuji's official goal was already stated: patriotic and militaristic one. They were to be Jior's army. Is it not clear enough to you the project, the module and their existence he proposed? In fact, Dorssia already revealed this to the world last episode, they spoke clear of Jior's official goals with them. Nobody had a reaction, not even Shoko. So it doesn't mean her father matters anymore.

The idea was to have a small but powerful force; I doubt they intended for every student to have a machine especially given how the Valvraves' power source works.

The idea was an entire squad of hundreds. So you're mistaken. Underground there were plenty of unfinished Valvraves (A-drei and L-Elf among others discovered the installations). The project was still ongoing when L-Elf attacked. All supported by Shoko's father, knowing it will put the lives of those kids in dangers because it gave clearance to ARUS and Jior to attack the school when the laboratory was discovered. Maybe he regretted it after it happened, but it doesn't take away he jeopardized the lives of underage kids, including his daughter, for the sake of his ambition. It's understandable he has the interests of his nation above his personal ones, hence the irony of his death too. My two cents here.

"Don't trust adults" seems to be theme in the show (and most mecha shows by Sunrise).

Why should they care considering the source? And they can touch on Ryuji's character since they still have Pino and Prue's backstory to explain which is tied to the project. I don't expect it but it's possible. I'm not getting my hopes up.

It's more likely we see Haruto's father in those flashbacks like we saw with Marie. I suppose he could cameo.

So has everyone else on the module not named L-Elf.

Not quite, Kyuuma and a couple of others were worried more about the Module. Nanami is another example. Shoko, on the other hand, pushed all her efforts to get Jior back over getting help for the Module. That condemnation for instance, was her idea and not the other kids'. Haruto didn't seem to care about it when she excitedly commented it. Naturally, like I said a lot could happen: Including the worst case scenario of writing (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=4953653#post4953653). The new country has no place for someone who deludes herself to believe Jior matters anymore. So is she going to ditch this completely and beg to be part of it as civilian or she's going to make herself useful elsewhere following the logical growth she had after drifting apart with Haruto? The question is if Shoko's worth more than plot device love interest for drama's sake or has some kind of coherency that will pay for her choices. Is she going to backpedal and thus confirm everyone's criticism about her character? Or she'll stand her ground and, like was also foreshadowed, will drift apart from the main cast following her own path. Not necessarily becoming an enemy, but a potential future ally.

I was observing the two boxsets of the seasons. In first season, it has Shoko and Haruto smiling together with L-Elf apart reaching out to grasp something, unseen. In second season, it has L-Elf and Haruto smiling together with Shoko as the most distant one in the foreground. Since this thread is about speculation based on many things, we can see that shift reflected on the box art. ;)

[zztop]

Edit: Wait, I found the canonical info about the project. It's pretty much as I said. Congressman Sashinami Ryuuji proposed the project 20 years ago when they discovered Pino and Prue shipwreck (plus the rune particles) to protect Jior from the opposing nations (ARUS and Dorssia)

Where did you get the canon info from? The main Valvrave website?

Because I don't recall this being mentioned on the show, and I can't read Japanese text. :p

And(a belated) Merry Christmas!!

[Triple_R]

Well going back to my pre-Finale speculations...



In any event, I found it a fun little exercise, so I'm going to do the same sort of comprehensive finale speculations for the big finale itself. The following is what I think will happen in the finale:



Key Points: Dorssia's government changes. Amadeus dies, while A-Drei becomes the new Monarch of Dorssia. L-Elf and/or Shouko successfully start a new country where human and Kamitsuki live together in peace. Haruto Dies. ARUS and its people become opposed to both Dorssia and the new country arising from the ashes of Module 77.


More detailed speculations: L-Elf decides to make Amadeus tell him everything he knows about the Council of 101. L-Elf also captures ARUS President Anderson and uses him to blackmail ARUS into backing off and returning their forces to Earth.

Haruto and Akira are still shook up over Yamada's death, but are showing relief over seeing L-Elf succeed. That's until Cain dramatically engages Haruto in battle, causing Akira to scream out to Haruto! But before she can help him, she's cut off by the psychotic-looking Q-vier engaging her in battle as well. Cut to the Valvrave logo (OP will be cut to save every second possible for this finale).

The two big mecha battles are Haruto vs. Cain and Akira vs. Q-vier. Cain is winning his battle, while the other battle is a stalemate. Haruto is leaking runes fast, and fears he will not have enough to win this battle. He's then saved by Saki flying triumphantly to the rescue to knock Cain back, and buy Haruto some time.

Saki shouts to Haruto to leave Cain to her, and for him to get to safety. Haruto agrees, but with the caveat that he will be back to save her. Haruto seeks out L-Elf for a Rune Snack, and L-Elf obliges (the preview shot where L-Elf bares his neck, as though preparing to be bit by a vampire).

While all this fighting goes on, A-Drei goes on TV to make a grand patriotic speech to the Dorssian people. He implores everyone to stand up against the fiends that are eating his country alive. He tells them to seize all government buildings, and to take their country back. We briefly see Shouko watching A-Drei's speech with a mixture of admiration (in him) and shame (in herself). But Shouko is inspired by A-Drei's speech, and will later give a dramatic speech herself.

After getting his L-Elf snack, Haruto rushes back into battle, arriving just in time to prevent Saki's death at Cain's hands. Haruto and Cain engage in an epic battle, while at the same time we see Shouko delivering a speech. In her somewhat tearful speech, she talks of Haruto's great sacrifice (appropriately mixed with scenes of him now fighting Cain), and how her and her people cannot allow that sacrifice to be in vain. She pleads with her people, and the people of Earth, to accept the Kamitsuki.

Hearing this gives Akira the second breath she needs, as she had just been losing to Q-viers. Renewed by Shouko's speech, Akira shouts loudly while bringing death and destruction upon Q-viers.

However, Haruto is losing memories fast. He watches Shouko's speech on his display in the hopes that doing so will help him not forget her. But it is all for naught, as he forgets about her anyway. Instead, she ironically ends up being a costly distraction to him.

"...Who is that? Giving that speech? I feel like I should recognize her, but I don't. Why am I watching her? Wait! Aren't I supposed to be fighti..."

And then Cain delivers the finishing blow to Haruto. Saki and Akira cry in horror at the sight. Saki is completely enraged, and vows to avenge her fallen friend and romantic crush. Her and Akira double-team Cain, and Cain is able to parry back Akira, but Saki proves too much for him. Saki destroys Cain's mecha and he dies at her hands.

That is the climax. We then move to the epilogue. Due to not having much screen-time during the action-y parts, Satomi and Takahi get a bit of screentime here, as they try to comfort Akira over the deaths of Haruto and Yamada, as well as reflecting on the heroism of both (especially Haruto). The next scene focuses on the naming of the new empire from which Module 77 will be born.

New Dorssian Monarch A-Drei is in attendance, to signal a diplomatic bond between his country, and that of his friend L-Elf.

The leader of the new country will be either L-Elf or Shouko. But the Founder will be declared to be Haruto, the great hero who gave his life to make this all possible.

In the final scene of the epilogue, we skip ahead to future!Saki and future!Satomi explaining this all to the Prince. And then we get a brief scene setting up... Valvrave Season 3! The episode ends with a promo for Valvrave Season 3, which will be centered around the time of Future!Saki and Satomi.


Now, percentage likelihood of character death in final episode (excluding during time-skip):

Cain - 75%

Amadeus - 75%

Q-Viers - 70%

Haruto - 55%

President Anderson - 45%

Akira - 33%

Shouko - 25%

Iori - 25%

L-Elf, Rion, X-Eins, Kriemheld - 3%

A-Drei, Takahi, Takumi, and Otomaya - 2%

Satomi and Saki - 1% (only because you can never be 100% certain with anything in Valvrave :heh: )




My "Key Points" and "Percentage Likelihood of Character Death" did pretty well.

Dorssia's government changes. - Check

Amadeus dies, while A-Drei becomes the new Monarch of Dorssia. - Half/Half (it seems pretty clear that A-Drei is not the new Monarch of Dorssia)

L-Elf and/or Shouko successfully start a new country where human and Kamitsuki live together in peace. - Check

Haruto dies - Check

ARUS and its people become opposed to both Dorssia and the new country arising from the ashes of Module 77. - ????

So 3.5 out of 5. Not too bad.


I basically predicted Amadeus, Cain, Q-Viers, and Haruto to all die, and they did. I missed X-Eins though. I thought they'd want to give the Backstreet Boys more of a happy ending, but I guess not. Still, only one off on the "die or survive?" predictions, pretty good!


...My more detailed speculations were really, really off though. :heh:


How did other people do in their speculations? :)

[~BC~]

I was actually at a loss as far as last episode speculations went. I think the only thing I expected to happen was Haruto dying, one or two of the Dorssia boys dying, one of the three ships getting wacked, and Shoko doing something signficant. I was 2/4 (would've been 3/4 had we actually seen how Shoko contributed to the empire:rolleyes:).

[Frozt]

Haruto didn't die, he just passed out... His eyes didn't go blank like Marie, its clearly displayed because after Marie used up all her runes she just died right after piloting, while Haruto had a chat with L-Elf...He technically isn't Haruto, but he is still Haruto..

[Triple_R]

Haruto didn't die, he just passed out... His eyes didn't go blank like Marie, its clearly displayed because after Marie used up all her runes she just died right after piloting, while Haruto had a chat with L-Elf...He technically isn't Haruto, but he is still Haruto..

We don't see him at Satomi/Takahi's wedding, and we see that he has a bust in Shouko's hall of heroes. Shouko makes it clear that these busts are of fallen heroes.

Shouko also doesn't appear to have aged at all, and she's wearing Haruto's Valvrave suit, so she must have taken over Haruto's Valvrave not long after the climatic battle. So Haruto might have lived for a brief period after the final battle, but I strongly doubt he lived for long.

[Whitepointa]

I'm sorry man, but you're in denial... Even I didn't want him to die...
I really wanted Haruto to go together with Saki Rukino but with the recent turn of events and the rumour of Rukino marrying A-Drei (very infuriated about that) pretty sure HE is dead :(

T.T

[Cloudedmind]

Haruto didn't die, he just passed out... His eyes didn't go blank like Marie, its clearly displayed because after Marie used up all her runes she just died right after piloting, while Haruto had a chat with L-Elf...He technically isn't Haruto, but he is still Haruto..

If Haruto isn't died then there would be no need to make a bust in his honor and put it along with all the other students that died in that memorial room we saw.

[Thess]

Haruto didn't die, he just passed out... His eyes didn't go blank like Marie, its clearly displayed because after Marie used up all her runes she just died right after piloting, while Haruto had a chat with L-Elf...He technically isn't Haruto, but he is still Haruto..

:heh::heh::heh::heh:

(I have no coherent response, sorry).

[Frozt]

I don't even like Haruto, he died as Haruto but lives as an empty shell. Why the hell would they have a funeral for Marie, a side character and not one for Haruto... Not only that but they obviously didnt add Haruto to the wedding because it Okuchi wants this to be debated over... Also just because Shoko is the pilot doesnt mean he is dead. Marie was a red VVV pilot and didnt die when Haruto became the mext pilot. Your arguments are flawed. The bust is obviously for the Haruto who sacrificed his memories.... Like i said, Haruto technically did die, but still lives... It's a monument for people who did great things. Go back to watch how Marie died in ep 16 and go watch Haruto's... There's a distinct difference...

[Whitepointa]

I don't even like Haruto, he died as Haruto but lives as an empty shell. Why the hell would they have a funeral for Marie, a side character and not one for Haruto... Not only that but they obviously didnt add Haruto to the wedding because it Okuchi wants this to be debated over... Also just because Shoko is the pilot doesnt mean he is dead. Marie was a red VVV pilot and didnt die when Haruto became the mext pilot. Your arguments are flawed. The bust is obviously for the Haruto who sacrificed his memories.... Like i said, Haruto technically did die, but still lives... It's a monument for people who did great things.

She didn't die because she almost ran out of all of her memories, but when she did she did die. haruto used up all his memories because nothing stopped him from doing so

[Thess]

I don't even like Haruto, he died as Haruto but lives as an empty shell. Why the hell would they have a funeral for Marie, a side character and not one for Haruto... Not only that but they obviously didnt add Haruto to the wedding because it Okuchi wants this to be debated over... Also just because Shoko is the pilot doesnt mean he is dead. Marie was a red VVV pilot and didnt die when Haruto became the mext pilot. Your arguments are flawed. The bust is obviously for the Haruto who sacrificed his memories.... Like i said, Haruto technically did die, but still lives... It's a monument for people who did great things. Go back to watch how Marie died in ep 16 and go watch Haruto's... There's a distinct difference...

He lost all his runes, dude. Pino said so. We saw Haruto's runes leaking, none of L-Elf's. He's dead.

[Triple_R]

I don't even like Haruto, he died as Haruto but lives as an empty shell. Why the hell would they have a funeral for Marie, a side character and not one for Haruto...

It's called "time constraints". The closer to the end a character dies, the less time there is to give him/her a funeral. I mean, this applies to Kyuma and Thunder as well. Are they less important than Marie or Aina? Of course not. But again, time constraints.


Not only that but they obviously didnt add Haruto to the wedding because it Okuchi wants this to be debated over...

Or he wants Haruto to be considered dead.


Also just because Shoko is the pilot doesnt mean he is dead. Marie was a red VVV pilot and didnt die when Haruto became the mext pilot.

Marie was just an one-time pilot. Shouko is obviously much more than that because she hasn't aged. The implication is crystal clear.


The bust is obviously for the Haruto who sacrificed his memories.... Like i said, Haruto technically did die, but still lives... It's a monument for people who did great things.

I disagree. Haruto died, period. If Haruto lived on, in any capacity, wouldn't it make more sense for Shouko to be trying to support him? But according to Akira, Shouko spent a very long time crying over Haruto.

[Frozt]

We also saw Marie's runes leaking and her death scene when her eyes went blank. We also saw a proper burial for Marie...Haruto's body was recovered but nothing after that was shown. You would think they would have this huge funeral for the guy who freed the world from the Magiuses. Not only that just because Pino said he used up all his runes tell me why his death was completely different from Maries... His eyes didnt go blank nor did he instantly die in the cockpit and they dont even have a proper funeral for the mc... Why the hell does shoko being a pilot have to do anything? Obviously they wont make an empty shell pilot a vvv... Thats like putting mentally unstable soldier back into war...
Shokos also crying over a helmet, why didnt they use that time and show us his body...

LOL, time constraints... More like they couldnt give them a proper burial because the whole world turned on them at that time.

[Thess]

There wasn't a funeral because it wasn't relevant. Marie's 'funeral' was just to show off in the news to gather sympathy and fundraising, similar to Aina. Did you see Kyuuma's and Thunder's funerals? ;)

[Frozt]

There wasn't a funeral because it wasn't relevant. Marie's 'funeral' was just to show off in the news to gather sympathy and fundraising, similar to Aina. Did you see Kyuuma's and Thunder's funerals? ;)

Go read my statement again. Tell me if its relevant after an episode.

Why couldnt they show us Haruto's body instead of Shoko crying over his helmet. His body would have made it clear...

Im done arguing my point. Its people like this who just accepts things as they are rather than think outside the box and look at the clues were given..
Besides, youre using the same point over and over and i give the same response which is getting repetitive.

[Thess]

Bzuh? It's not really relevant. Haruto's end was only to be witnessed by the only relationship he established that mattered to the plot in terms of development: L-Elf. His character, as episode 22 suggested, was to go out in a blaze of glory and extinquish after leaving a mark on the world. That's what he did.

Why couldnt they show us Haruto's body instead of Shoko crying over his helmet. His body would have made it clear...

Because Akira bringing him his corpse would be poor taste and he'll also be in process of decomposition. :uhoh:

There are no "little clues." Just your personal wishful thinking. We saw Haruto's memories of the moon promise shatter on screen. L-Elf brought them up if he remembers, he's not Haruto.

[Cloudedmind]

Go read my statement again. Tell me if its relevant after an episode.

Why couldnt they show us Haruto's body instead of Shoko crying over his helmet. His body would have made it clear...

Im done arguing my point. Its people like this who just accepts things as they are rather than think outside the box and look at the clues were given..
Besides, youre using the same point over and over and i give the same response which is getting repetitive.

And then you have people who over think things when certain points are clearly shown and or stated. But you know whatever.

[Frozt]

Bzuh? It's not really relevant. Haruto's end was only to be witnessed by the only relationship he established that mattered to the plot in terms of development: L-Elf. His character, as episode 22 suggested, was to go out in a blaze of glory and extinquish after leaving a mark on the world. That's what he did.



Because Akira bringing him his corpse would be poor taste and he'll also be in process of decomposition. :uhoh:

There are no "little clues." Just your personal wishful thinking. We saw Haruto's memories of the moon promise shatter on screen. L-Elf brought them up if he remembers, he's not Haruto.

Exactly, their funerals wouldn't be relevant an episode after they dies. So why isn't Haruto's relevant, if anything her only bringing the helmet back is bad taste because it leaves open ends like this to be debated.

The only wishful thinking I see is how you just accept the facts as they are. I bet if you lived back in the past and was told the world was flat, you would take that fact like cake. The biggest clue were given is that Haruto is alive as an empty shell is that his body is not shown after he passed out. His eyes explain everything, he also obtained a little amount of runes from biting L-Elf at the last battle which is why his eyes didnt go blank

This is exactly like the CG debate whether LL is alive or not.

[Triple_R]

Exactly, their funerals wouldn't be relevant an episode after they dies. So why isn't Haruto's relevant, if anything her only bringing the helmet back is bad taste because it leaves open ends like this to be debated.

No, it doesn't. A writer doesn't always need to spell things out explicitly to make them clear.

If Haruto is still alive, and not a total vegetable, then somebody should bring him up to speed on who he is, and be shown helping to take care of him. That's what any decent and thankful friend would do, isn't it? I'd find it pretty amazing/disgusting for both L-Elf and Shouko to fail to do this.

And so by the time of Satomi/Takahi's wedding, Haruto should have known that these were two of his allies in the fight against Dorssia and the Magius, and he should want to be at their wedding. His absence from the wedding, and the absence of there being any scenes of him being cared for, and what Shouko said about the busts, altogether makes it clear that he's dead.


Your thinking may not be wishful, but it really doesn't make sense either. You're totally grasping at straws here, and you're taking the "no body = no death" standard to a ridiculous extreme.

[Thess]

Your thinking may not be wishful, but it really doesn't make sense either. You're totally grasping at straws here, and you're taking the "no body = no death" standard to a ridiculous extreme.

He's hiding with H-neun somewhere.

[Frozt]

No, it doesn't. A writer doesn't always need to spell things out explicitly to make them clear.

If Haruto is still alive, and not a total vegetable, then somebody should bring him up to speed on who he is, and be shown helping to take care of him. That's what any decent and thankful friend would do, isn't it? I'd find it pretty amazing/disgusting for both L-Elf and Shouko to fail to do this.

And so by the time of Satomi/Takahi's wedding, Haruto should have known that these were two of his allies in the fight against Dorssia and the Magius, and he should want to be at their wedding. His absence from the wedding, and the absence of there being any scenes of him being cared for, and what Shouko said about the busts, altogether makes it clear that he's dead.


Your thinking may not be wishful, but it really doesn't make sense either. You're totally grasping at straws here, and you're taking the "no body = no death" standard to a ridiculous extreme.

Have you actually read any of my statements?? His eyes didn't go blank like how Marie's did. Her death was completely explained while Haruto's is up for debate. Like I said this is just like debating on LL from CG. As for Haruto not being at the weddings its because he wants this to be debated over.. It would completely ruin it if they did add an empty shell of Haruto to the wedding. By speculations on his twitter, he was possibly referring to this and its up to the viewers interpretation. Which is why I'm saying Haruto is alive because even though he lost his memories, his "death" was nothing like Marie's. Watch it frame by frame he was able to keep his eyes from going blank, which is why I believe he is still alive but as an empty shell.

Thess, youre arguments are always invalid which is why I ignore most of your posts half the time.

[Thess]

I think we'll have a CD drama set during Satomi's and Takahi's marriage ceremony.

[Triple_R]

He's hiding with H-neun somewhere.

lol, good one. :heh:


Have you actually read any of my statements??

Yes, of course I have been reading your statements. They're just not as compelling as you seem to think they are, because if they're right, they would make some of the character actions seem very, very odd.

It doesn't make sense for Shouko to be crying over Haruto's helmet, and to be crying for as long as she did (going by Akira's narration), if Haruto had "only" lost his memories, but was otherwise alive and well. That's sad, sure, but it's not something you mourn over to this degree. The obvious implication is that Haruto is dead (or at least in a vegetative state), and that this is how the audience is supposed to take it.

And if Haruto is in a vegetative state, then some may say that he's basically dead any way. Many people consider that basically the same as being dead any way, which is why many families opt to "pull the plug" once a loved one reaches this point.


His eyes didn't go blank like how Marie's did.

They may have went blank after he closed his eyes for the final time. In any event, there's no rule that says that every Valvrave "memory death" has to look exactly the same way. I mean, you need at least two similar instances of the same thing before you can even start to presume a set pattern.

[Nvis]

Wait, so there will be a Season 3?

[Key Board]

Not sure if this pointed out, but..

http://i.imgur.com/7Seuy8E.jpg

From Okouchi's twitter

As to who he prince with Saki is, I will leave that to your imagination and not answer it. Please remember this series fondly.

[KleenexGhost]

Not sure if this pointed out, but..

http://i.imgur.com/7Seuy8E.jpg

From Okouchi's twitter

As to who he prince with Saki is, I will leave that to your imagination and not answer it. Please remember this series fondly.

Like Thess said, that's one way to avoid giving a definitive answer that might piss off a part of the fanbase :heh:

[Black Eye]

Like Thess said, that's one way to avoid giving a definitive answer that might piss off a part of the fanbase :heh:

dunno about that but i think there is a high chance that he's l-elf and shouko's descendant/kid >>>>( for the shippers to that couple)>>> (dunno if they r still there any left thought XD)

[Triple_R]

Yeah, I like the idea that he's L-Elf and Shouko's descendent.

[KleenexGhost]

Maybe we'll get a definitive answer in the novel.

[_Misfit]

Not sure if this pointed out, but..

http://i.imgur.com/7Seuy8E.jpg

From Okouchi's twitter

As to who he prince with Saki is, I will leave that to your imagination and not answer it. Please remember this series fondly.

At this point, I doubt even he knows who the prince is.

[Winterson]

Not sure if this pointed out, but..

http://i.imgur.com/7Seuy8E.jpg

From Okouchi's twitter

As to who he prince with Saki is, I will leave that to your imagination and not answer it. Please remember this series fondly.


His abnormality is seen through this vague statement. He clearly didn't want to give us a definite answer and clear explanations, or maybe he had already hinted some during his past interviews wherein the tiniest bits of details weren't viewed as meaningful.

[stagrider]

Possible Valvrave OVA-
Main Plot:
Shouko's feelings on the events of the last few episodes and her journey towards redemption culminating with her piloting Hito and making friends with Pino and Plue.
L-Elf and A-drei starting a program to train the students that decide to become Kamitski, and setting up a system to keep rune supply stable with human consent.
First 2 encounters with other aliens 1 friendly and 1 hostile.
Sub plots:
Tekka/Kagerou becomes the model for mass production. While a few custom units get Hito's frame.
Small insight to Haruto's sacrifices effect on the students.
Beast-THUNDER! squad in memorial of Kyuma and THUNDER!.
Akira trying to get into Shouko's pants.
Cameo:
Jin and Nao in their Kagero/raves.

[gordol]

Possible Valvrave OVA-
Main Plot:
Shouko's feelings on the events of the last few episodes and her journey towards redemption culminating with her piloting Hito and making friends with Pino and Plue.
L-Elf and A-drei starting a program to train the students that decide to become Kamitski, and setting up a system to keep rune supply stable with human consent.
First 2 encounters with other aliens 1 friendly and 1 hostile.
Sub plots:
Tekka/Kagerou becomes the model for mass production. While a few custom units get Hito's frame.
Small insight to Haruto's sacrifices effect on the students.
Beast-THUNDER! squad in memorial of Kyuma and THUNDER!.
Akira trying to get into Shouko's pants.
Cameo:
Jin and Nao in their Kagero/raves.

take this fanfic shit outta heere

[MK-95-]

Not sure if this pointed out, but..

http://i.imgur.com/7Seuy8E.jpg

From Okouchi's twitter

As to who he prince with Saki is, I will leave that to your imagination and not answer it. Please remember this series fondly.

Like Thess said, that's one way to avoid giving a definitive answer that might piss off a part of the fanbase :heh:


Yup, he succeeded in pissing off this fan. Every time I sit down & try to create hypotheses on the Prince & the other plot holes, I just get one big fucking headache without getting closer to any answers.

Still, that tweet makes me think that this may not be the end. It gives the feeling as though we'll get an answer or two sooner or later.

Black Eye, I'm still a fan of the ship, but I just don't know about the Prince having Shoko DNA in him.

[~BC~]

What I find funny about the prince speculation is that people don't even seem to consider the DNA of people outside of his parents. You'd think Haruto was the only blue eyed person in the universe or something. I mean far be it for L-Elf to have blue eyes in his gene pool when he's the one who's actually of European descent.:heh:

[MK-95-]

^The Prince is a hard case to crack. There's no doubting he is related to L-Elf.

The thing that throws me off is that he resembles Haruto? The dude is dead, is the kid a clone or just red herring?

The tricky part is that the Prince isn't L-Elf's son, but a descendent. This is 200 years we're talking about. L-Elf married & had a kid which also married & had a kid, etc... There are too many possible known & unknown female choices to be this kid's great-great-grandmother, great-grandmother etc... Then we also have to factor in the other sides(L-Elf's family, L-Elf's spouse's family, L-ELf's kid's family, his kid's spouse's family, etc...) of his family.

It'll only get more complicated if he has a Kamitsuki parent or grandparent because it'll be harder to factor in a timeframe due to the immortality of that parent/grandparent.

That's why I got a damn headache thinking about this.

[KleenexGhost]

It's weird. It's Thursday, and I'm expecting a new episode of Valvrave to air today.

Guess it's cause I feel unsatisfied with what we got. :heh:

[Mad Pierrot]

There were hints about the Prince's identity in a magazine.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/9200b1e3de059e1dbad7eef241be324b/tumblr_mygbpgEYIZ1shjazqo1_r3_500.png

It appears he is new a kind of human

[~BC~]

That was all speculation by the magazine. Also take note of the question marks.

[Fjoergyn]

I think Prince is the union of a human and a kamitsuki.

[Nitestorm]

I think Prince is the union of a human and a kamitsuki.

I don't get why people are so hung up as to whom the little boy is, when its generally irrelevant to the plot. He's clearly meant to be just a vehicle for Saki/Akira to tell the story/history of the formation of the empire or whatever. There are so many relevant plot holes and unexplained topics that should be focused on instead.

That being said, two individuals of different species cannot reproduce (or only will produce infertile offspring, like a mule or liger). Granted, this has been fudged in science fiction quite frequently (Star Trek, being the most notorious - they eventually explain it by having all humanoid species share a common ancestry), so I can't say for certain. Still, in all likelyhood its just a normal human boy. The fact that he's royalty or something just implies he's likely descended from L-Elf (perhaps even A-Drei as well).

On a related note, how would children for Kamitsuki even work? They aren't supposed to age, so wouldn't a fertilized egg or whatever be stuck in the cellular stage indefinitely? They clearly don't age to a certain point and then stop (after 200 years, they are all clearly still teenagers physically). I'll just assume they are sterile or something. :p

[Fjoergyn]

I always thought that kamitsuki are like MU Toward the terra. You said yourself that there are holes in the story and what is said here is pure speculation.


Saki does not look like a 16 year old girl, she looks more adult so aging is slower.

[Thess]

What I find funny about the prince speculation is that people don't even seem to consider the DNA of people outside of his parents. You'd think Haruto was the only blue eyed person in the universe or something. I mean far be it for L-Elf to have blue eyes in his gene pool when he's the one who's actually of European descent.:heh:

Let's just take a glance to the people of Jior. The only one with silver hair is L-Elf, but there were several blue eyed, like Iori.

[Key Board]

Genetic modification is probably necessary if you want to sustain the Kamitsuki as a race

I'm going to assume that the Galactic Empire will continue to embrace and develop gene research. (and develop more enemies because of that, but that's another story)

The Prince is probably one of these results. Maybe he's not even the first. L-Elf might have artificially produced an heir, which then artificially produced another heir, ect, ect..

Maybe somewhere along the lines the Empire developed a tradition that the royal heir must meet such and such genetic criteria.
So maybe the answer to "why does he look like an L-Elf Haruto hybrid?" is "It's religion, you won't understand it"

[~BC~]

Let's just take a glance to the people of Jior. The only one with silver hair is L-Elf, but there were several blue eyed, like Iori.

Exactly. The eye color could've come from anywhere; it didn't necessarily have to be from Haruto. L-Elf's ancestry was just another possible source.

Though with Dr. Tokishima's fate conveniently left unexplained I could see the gene manipulation thing happening.

[Mad Pierrot]

Let's just take a glance to the people of Jior. The only one with silver hair is L-Elf, but there were several blue eyed, like Iori.

But didn't L-elf return to Dorssia in the end? I mean those clothes. One thing for sure is that the kid is not the direct son of any character in the series. He could be a descendant.

https://24.media.tumblr.com/43b6cd0245056a40d1dd45c93f6f1a2c/tumblr_my7h8c63ha1sxw7s8o1_500.jpg

Still the theory that the Prince has Haruto's genes is not that weak considering the more I see comparisons the more I am going insane trying to understand it.

[DevilHighDxD]

But didn't L-elf return to Dorssia in the end? I mean those clothes. One thing for sure is that the kid is not the direct son of any character in the series. He could be a descendant.

https://24.media.tumblr.com/43b6cd0245056a40d1dd45c93f6f1a2c/tumblr_my7h8c63ha1sxw7s8o1_500.jpg

Still the theory that the Prince has Haruto's genes is not that weak considering the more I see comparisons the more I am going insane trying to understand it.

Runes consisted of DNA also, so if runes is used up, where did they get his DNA from?

[Mad Pierrot]

Runes consisted of DNA also, so if runes is used up, where did they get his DNA from?

Oh god what did they do with his dead body?! :twitch: Other than that, the red Valvrave is a Rune fountain

Still, I remember the character designer Hoshino tends to pay a lot of attention when drawing eyes. When starting D.Gray-man it took her sometime to decide on Allen Walker's eye colors.

[Thess]

But didn't L-elf return to Dorssia in the end? I mean those clothes.

He's not wearing Dorssian clothes: the uniforms are white. He's wearing what seems to be an unique regalia/military order clothing not related to Dorssia or ARUS. His goal is to found a new nation, why would he go back to Dorssia for?

[DevilHighDxD]

This is a speculation but I think Valvrave's cool down function is there to prevent Valvrave from being piloting for too long which causes runes deprivation. The familiar bypass this and make it Valvrave's duration 3-4 times longer than normal length which it exhausted more runes than normal had it stop functioning when it the temperature reached 100 and than 666 for a Harakiri Blade.

[Fjoergyn]

http://www.gaforum.org/showpost.php?p=10656761&postcount=94


It says that more Valvrave is possible? If there's enough support for it. And also that IkeyaP (who is that?) wanted a Haruto x Shoko x L-Elf triangle. Also saying something about Shoko being a difficult character to write, I assume

[~BC~]

LOL, why the hell would he mention this after the fact? Good grief Ikeya. Shoko being difficult to write for explains alot. I was always cautious of how they were writing her quirkiness and the end results didn't help. At least now I have confirmation.

Ikeya is the producer, Fjoergyn.

[DevilHighDxD]

Please no, don't drag L-elf into this. Saki suffered enough in the Saki-Haruto-Shoko love triangle, I don't want L-elf to suffered too. But if there were this triangle, let L-elf get Shoko and then let Saki get Haruto please. Also please more Valvrave, more Valvrave is always good.

[Fjoergyn]

LOL, why the hell would he mention this after the fact? Good grief Ikeya. Shoko being difficult to write for explains alot. I was always cautious of how they were writing her quirkiness and the end results didn't help. At least now I have confirmation.

Ikeya is the producer, Fjoergyn.

Thanks BC :)

Iketani is a L-elf x Shoko shipper and he really wanted it to work :eyespin:

DevilHighDxD. L-Elf would have won in that triangle xD

[Thess]

Blessed be Okouchi and the rest of the team who reigned that delusion. L-Elf already have a brief but lasting love story, he didn't need more melodrama on this aspect.

[Key Board]

I think you could see the remnants of that intent
but just like some things in S1 it didn't go anywhere because they didn't have enough episode / script change
It would have been terribly messy though

edit: my theory is that Shoko learns about what Haruto and Saki did in episode 10, (over)reacts?, and uses L-Elf as an emotional punching bag
and L-Elf let's this happen/deceives her, so he can control an otherwise unpredictable element

//

[Fjoergyn]

3,815 BD, DVD

2nd SEASON 1

[Cloudedmind]

3,815 BD, DVD

2nd SEASON 1

Well it's not horrible, but....

[DuelGundam2099]

May I ask for the source of that information?

[Fjoergyn]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdn7G1WCQAAvEQJ.jpg:large

Animedia........


Talk of a sequel to solve all the plot holes.

[gordol]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdn7G1WCQAAvEQJ.jpg:large

Animedia........


Talk of a sequel to solve all the plot holes.

WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

Just let this POS of series RIP. At least the mecha designs were good

[DevilHighDxD]

WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

Just let this POS of series RIP. At least the mecha designs were good

We need a sequel now!!!

[Mad Pierrot]

We need a sequel now!!!

We'll call it the "Space Adventures of Saki Rukino!" Episode 1 "I Stopped Caring About What The F#ck Was Going On Years Ago" :D

[MK-95-]

Don't be too mad gordol. You're not the only one who was disappointed in VVV's conclusion. I'm still a fan, even if the ending left me very unsatisfied. I'd welcome a sequel because that brings the hope that that mess of an ending can be salvaged.

I'm also curious as to how/where the sequel takes place. During the formative years of the 3GR? Or in the FAR future where FutureSaki seems to be the the relevant character?

[Thess]

You don't need a sequel, you just need a special extra episode to clear the subplots of the pre timeskip epilogue and leaving that future open. The show's main plot was resolved: it was to unveil the truth to the world. L-Elf already did that by slitting Amadeus' throat and by outmaneuver the Magius of the Council with his list, sitting back and letting ARUS and the royalists handle them. That had been his promise to Haruto in the Moon and the show motto. :heh:

[KleenexGhost]

I wouldn't mind a comedy spin-off starring the Renbokouji siblings...

Anything to get more Akira-chan:heh:

[DuelGundam2099]

I have to second what Gordol is saying, let this series die. It already tainted Kunio Okawara's legacy and wasted too many good aspects on vastly overwhelming negative ones. They had 24 episodes, the staff took too long to get things started and screwed up, better luck next time.

[Mad Pierrot]

Just because a truth was revealed it doesn't mean there could not be a sequel. If not there would be no more Code Geass after season 2. Instead they created Akito the Exiled after Lelouch of the Rebellion. The sequel to Valvrave the Liberator could be Valvrave the One That Doesn't Make Sense or something like that.

I have to second what Gordol is saying, let this series die. It already tainted Kunio Okawara's legacy and wasted too many good aspects on vastly overwhelming negative ones. They had 24 episodes, the staff took too long to get things started and screwed up, better luck next time.

You two are taking this way too seriously. Okawara's legacy was tainted? His designs were good. What did he have to do with the things that annoyed you? It's like saying Tomino should never work again after creating Garzey's Wing or that there should be no more anime after that.

[DuelGundam2099]

I never said anyone should stop working, I said they should move on. Tomino is also a bad example, after Victory Gundam his stuff just isn't what it used to be. Then again if someone like Toshiki Hirano can bounce back from a dud (in his case Rayearth) then so could both of them.

[mechalord]

Big Plot Hole...

If the robots were just eating their pilot's memories, why the hell did Haruto need to feed on humans to collect runes for the robots?

The whole point to him being a vampire is that the robot ate the memories he harvested, not his own.

My guess, he was being uploaded by his Magius girl. She is going to get pregnant with him and upload him to a new body as a magius or his original preserved body.

[DuelGundam2099]

Emergency power perhaps? *shrugs*

[Thess]

Just because a truth was revealed it doesn't mean there could not be a sequel. If not there would be no more Code Geass after season 2. Instead they created Akito the Exiled after Lelouch of the Rebellion.

Akito is an intersequel, not an sequel. It's set between the seasons. I guess they have two months in between to cover their Moon... landing and school festival?

[stagrider]

Akito is an intersequel, not an sequel. It's set between the seasons. I guess they have two months in between to cover their Moon... landing and school festival?

And the 200 years between the ending and epilogue.

[Thess]

And the 200 years between the ending and epilogue.

It wouldn't contain Haruto, I doubt they'll do something without him.

[DevilHighDxD]

Or they can just magically have Saki give birth to Haruto's child and that child will be Haruto's replacement. Then whoever is L-elf's descendent will be L-elf's replacement. I can't see how they will make a sequel with only Saki or Shoko or both as MC. L-elf will still be alive at the beginning of the empire but not the 200 years later timeline. They really should have find a way to make L-elf a Kamitsuki and not stay as a human.

[mechalord]

Or they can just magically have Saki give birth to Haruto's child and that child will be Haruto's replacement. Then whoever is L-elf's descendent will be L-elf's replacement. I can't see how they will make a sequel with only Saki or Shoko or both as MC. L-elf will still be alive at the beginning of the empire but not the 200 years later timeline. They really should have find a way to make L-elf a Kamitsuki and not stay as a human.

Only a few weeks/months went by between the "incident" and Haruto's death.

She could have been pregnant. Kamitsuki children could have a longer gestation period.

That would work.

[Key Board]

It wouldn't contain Haruto, I doubt they'll do something without him.

The show runs on L-Elf.. xd

[DevilHighDxD]

The show runs on L-Elf.. xd

But the 200 years later mean L-elf is dead...:upset:
It mean only showing the beginning of the empire and epilogue will again be the 200 years later timeline. Meaning we still won't know if that prince is related to L-elf or not.

[Fjoergyn]

But the 200 years later mean L-elf is dead...:upset:
It mean only showing the beginning of the empire and epilogue will again be the 200 years later timeline. Meaning we still won't know if that prince is related to L-elf or not.

Meeting unlikely a sequel without L-Elf. Haruto is irrelevant :heh:

It is possible that this sequel associated with building the empire and perhaps a way to make a L-11 immortal xD

[MK-95-]

You don't need a sequel, you just need a special extra episode to clear the subplots of the pre timeskip epilogue and leaving that future open. The show's main plot was resolved: it was to unveil the truth to the world. L-Elf already did that by slitting Amadeus' throat and by outmaneuver the Magius of the Council with his list, sitting back and letting ARUS and the royalists handle them. That had been his promise to Haruto in the Moon and the show motto. :heh:

True, a special episode will be able to fix everything that is set in the present. But what about the future? I doubt they can give a satisfying answer about it in one episode. They've already introduced elements such as the Golden 7 & hinted at another war in the future. That can't be resolved in a mere episode.

It wouldn't contain Haruto, I doubt they'll do something without him.

Key Board's post (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=4973428#post4973428) is the answer I'd choose in this case.

Haruto was never really the MC IMO. He's been credited as such, but the main plot point of this show has always been focused on L-Elf. The truth of the world, the revolution, everything. All Haruto has, is being used as a plot device to kick-start the empire & serving as a foil to L-Elf.

Meeting unlikely a sequel without L-Elf. Haruto is irrelevant :heh:

It is possible that this sequel associated with building the empire and perhaps a way to make a L-11 immortal xD

I can live with this.

[DevilHighDxD]

I want some Haruto at least because without him, Saki will be sad and I don't want her to be sad or else I'm sad. A child, a clone or something that of Haruto that will keep Saki not depressing. Plus the revolution is impossible without the Valvrave, let give Haruto some credit for being the first to initiate whole Kamitsuk/Valvrave/being pilot and as well as fueling Valvrave thing.

[whispo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bdn7G1WCQAAvEQJ.jpg:large

Animedia........


Talk of a sequel to solve all the plot holes.

Can't read moonspeak so forgive me for the stupid question, but are they seriously concidering a sequel or what?

[KleenexGhost]

I kinda wanna say let the series rest. Don't get me wrong, I would love for the plot-holes to be resolved in the novel. I guess the afterglow from the Rave-train has kinda worn off for me.

[darkchibi07]

Maybe they should scrap the whole thing except the setting and do a complete a reboot where Shoko, Saki, and Akira are the main characters and mecha pilots and L-elf is their commanding officer and A-drei assisting him, and altogether they're like a cross between Celestial Being from Gundam 00 and Charlie's Angels.

[Fjoergyn]

I want some Haruto at least because without him, Saki will be sad and I don't want her to be sad or else I'm sad. A child, a clone or something that of Haruto that will keep Saki not depressing. Plus the revolution is impossible without the Valvrave, let give Haruto some credit for being the first to initiate whole Kamitsuk/Valvrave/being pilot and as well as fueling Valvrave thing.


You do not think A-drei as a new option for Saki? She needs a new look at his life and Haruto is part of the past, but it should go ahead.




whispo. Ikeya says So We can expect a sequel!! :heh:

Should say more things but this is what the Japanese girl who translated my twitter :uhoh:

[Nitestorm]

You do not think A-drei as a new option for Saki? She needs a new look at his life and Haruto is part of the past, but it should go ahead.




whispo. Ikeya says So We can expect a sequel!! :heh:

Should say more things but this is what the Japanese girl who translated my twitter :uhoh:

They would have to retcon the fact that 200 years in the future, she remembers Haruto yet doesn't appear to give a crap about anyone else in her past. Notice how she doesn't have a wedding ring or any other kind of memento in the future, other than the locket? It seems pretty clear she remains single or only has the occasional fling here and there, but nothing serious on her part in terms of relationships. If she ever got into a serious relationship post ending, you'd think she want to keep a memento of that person as well.

Quite frankly she knows L-Elf better and probably has a much better opinion of him than A-Drei, anyways. As I've said before, there is still the whole aging issue - its frankly better for her to be with another ageless being, of which said options are quite limited due to the low numbers of students.

Why does she have to be paired with anyone anyways (especially a former enemy solder who has played a part crappy things happening to her and her fellow students)? She seems content in the future regardless.

[Fjoergyn]

Who knows, the infatuation of Saki by Haruto never had any sense to me, she was just looking to connect with someone, could have been anyone.

[whispo]

whispo. Ikeya says So We can expect a sequel!! :heh:


I'll be carefull not too get to hopefull, but.... FUCK YEAH! As long as it has Saki I'm happy :)

[Key Board]

【VVVラジオ第30回コーナー③】「はじめまして僕　連坊小路○◎です」未来のシーンに登場した連坊小路 の子孫と思われるサトミそっくりの少年、あの子の名前は一体…？皆さんで彼の名前を考えて送ってきて下さい 。名付け理由もお待ちしています。キラキラしたネームも大歓迎

upcoming VVV radio wants the listeners to submit a name for the renboukouji's descendant that looks like a Satomi. Also give the reason for naming him like that.

welp.. I guess future Satomi isn't really Satomi after all. It's his great great great? grandchild

[KleenexGhost]

【VVVラジオ第30回コーナー③】「はじめまして僕　連坊小路○◎です」未来のシーンに登場した連坊小路 の子孫と思われるサトミそっくりの少年、あの子の名前は一体…？皆さんで彼の名前を考えて送ってきて下さい 。名付け理由もお待ちしています。キラキラしたネームも大歓迎

upcoming VVV radio wants the listeners to submit a name for the renboukouji's descendant that looks like a Satomi. Also give the reason for naming him like that.

welp.. I guess future Satomi isn't really Satomi after all. It's his great great great? grandchild

Well damn. At least Satomi got to live a happy life with Takahi.

[DevilHighDxD]

Living forever is also some kind of torture you know. If I'm Satomi, I'll also remain as a human.

[KleenexGhost]

Living forever is also some kind of torture you know. If I'm Satomi, I'll also remain as a human.

True. A lot of us thought if Satomi turned immortal then Takahi would as well. Turns out that's not the case. Oh well, He's up there with Kyuuma, Haruto and the others in that big module in the sky.

Now if only they'll give an explanation on why there was no sign of L-Elf in the timeskip. Probably left his fate up in the air in case they do anything else with Valvrave so they can just throw him in there.