View Full Version : Ore no Imouto (Season Two) - Episode 14-16 [Series End] Discussion / Poll
Welcome to the discussion thread for Ore no Imouto (Season Two), Episode 14-16.
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relentlessflame
2013-08-17, 20:50
I'm creating a single thread for these episodes as they're being released together and are really designed to be watched in a set.
However, if you wish to provide individual ratings for each episode, please do so in the comments.
I know everything that happens!!!
:D
*shot*
Okay....so I caught the last fifteen minutes at Otakon's World Premiere last Friday.... =3=
But there's no way I'm the only member of this board who did!?
OTAKON, PEOPLE?
Looking forward to everything I missed. Haha....freaking dealer's room....it's YOUR fault. :heh:
relentlessflame
2013-08-17, 22:11
And thus is the groundwork for where the Oreimo 2 specials start. Kuroneko’s story arc in the OVA’s needs the context of what happened in season two to make it any bit of meaningful. Unfortunately, rushed as Kuroneko’s story arc was, the bad writing carryover to the OVA’s makes it difficult to care for what happens to her at this point. But the Oreimo 2 specials’ problems don’t stop there as while the OVA’s open with a kiss from Ayase to Kyousuke, it doesn’t follow up with her. This is despite the amount of screentime season two gave her and it’s further exacerbated by how Manami and Kanako managed to get their own finality with Kyousuke. Yes, the irrelevant childhood friend and the barely there cosplay idol managed to get the screentime Ayase should have had.I have to admit that I was a bit surprised by this comment because I thought it was clear that these weren't really "specials", they're just the last three episodes of the show that couldn't be aired on TV due to time-constraints (a season is only 13 weeks). So the fact that it requires you to have followed what happened in the TV series to follow these last episodes was expected to me: these are episodes 14-16, not off-to-the-side OVA episodes. As such, the brief flashback to Ayase and the resolution for Kuroneko are to close the existing plot points, and the issue with Ayase was already basically closed in Episode 12, which is why it wasn't further "followed-up upon" here. This is also why Manami and Kanako get closure here, because it wasn't given in the previous TV episodes. If you take the last 5 episodes on a whole, they basically resolve all the open plot points remaining in the story, and when you view it in that context, Ayase actually got more closure in her episode than some of the other characters did, despite going first.
Akito Kinomoto
2013-08-17, 22:29
I have to admit that I was a bit surprised by this comment because I thought it was clear that these weren't really "specials", they're just the last three episodes of the show that couldn't be aired on TV due to time-constraints (a season is only 13 weeks). So the fact that it requires you to have followed what happened in the TV series to follow these last episodes was expected to me: these are episodes 14-16, not off-to-the-side OVA episodes. As such, the brief flashback to Ayase and the resolution for Kuroneko are to close the existing plot points, and the issue with Ayase was already basically closed in Episode 12, which is why it wasn't further "followed-up upon" here. This is also why Manami and Kanako get closure here, because it wasn't given in the previous TV episodes. If you take the last 5 episodes on a whole, they basically resolve all the open plot points remaining in the story, and when you view it in that context, Ayase actually got more closure in her episode than some of the other characters did, despite going first.
Looking back on it, yeah, I forgot about the closure Ayase gets. Though now the point becomes why do these episodes go back to her when her story is already done? But that also means Manami and Kanako aren't wasted time. So the only problem left here is that and Kuroneko.
Time for a rewrite...
relentlessflame
2013-08-17, 22:38
Looking back on it, yeah, I forgot about the closure Ayase gets. Though now the point becomes why do these episodes go back to her when her story is already done? But that also means Manami and Kanako aren't wasted time. So the only problem left here is that and Kuroneko.I think it's to set the timeframe, because Episode 13 was a flashback told from Kirino's perspective, so you need to know the context in Kyousuke's mind that propels him to the next step. If this were continuing directly from Episode 12 and was airing on TV, I think they wouldn't have needed it. It's sort of like "last time, on OreImo"... :heh:
OH my goodness, its almost time.
samplay2
2013-08-17, 23:07
Someone have a link of the stream/simulcast ?
Haha, the sequence in the opening with Kirino (Meruru) vs. Kuroneko (Maschera) has been replaced by Kirino vs. Manami. :heh:
Can you guys feel it? No matter which girl wins (if any) a shitstorm is brewing.
Can you guys feel it? No matter which girl wins (if any) a shitstorm is brewing.
Of course, but I was there for the LN release of volume 13, so nothing new for me. :)
Hmm, poor Kuroneko, seeing this animated war really touching, even though I'm in another camp.
EDIT: Kirino's hair is really more fluffy in the back. So they have altered it a little bit.
EDIT2: This confession was a surreal sight with all those other people around. :heh:
But one negative, similar to the onsen scene, once these people seem to be frozen in place.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-17, 23:47
Oh my god. I knew that the scene with Kuroneko would be short, but this short... I mean, I barely have enough time to feel emo :(
OTOH...Such happy tear
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/s720x720/1184942_174706176049864_2070426987_n.jpg
Oh my god. I knew that the scene with Kuroneko would be short, but this short... I mean, I barely have enough time to feel emo :(
OTOH...Such happy tear
https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/q71/s720x720/1184942_174706176049864_2070426987_n.jpg
Yeah, it felt slightly fast. The entire episode was a little bit fast-paced for my likings. But still okay, not as bad as Episode 12 with Ayase felt.
I must say I'm surprised they moved the Kanako scene to the day after, with Kyousuke leaving Kirino, Saori and Kuroneko for a moment. But okay, as they didn't introduce Sakurai they had to do something, lest it became somewhat fragmented. Kanako was funny as usual.
By the way, seeing Saori talk in that Bajeena-mode while wearing normal clothes is kind of funny. :heh:
NoemiChan
2013-08-18, 00:08
I must watch it now!!!! When will it be ****????
Just finished Episode 15, the bed scene was funny how Kirino sprang to life. But it would have been better, if they had included a choice menu like the one from Episode 3 of the first season, like described in the LN.
EDIT: I don't like the fact that they cut the Mikagami conversation. In my opinion this conversation is pretty helpful in understanding the ending.
Densetsuhakai
2013-08-18, 00:21
So it's finally over.Well,that were 3 really great episodes.The Novel Final was how I expected better than these three episode but still it was really satisfying.
BTW the Kirino vs Manami fight was just awesome.Just like I imagined :D
Wilshere
2013-08-18, 00:23
Nice finale is all I can muster out!!!!!!!!!!!! Enjoyable!!!!!
Yeah, Manami surprised me, a nice punching stance. :D
But uh, Manami is seriously scary when she gets that serious look in her eyes.
Another thing I disliked, was them not showing a hand-holding scene before the meet up with Saori and Kuroneko. :(
Akito Kinomoto
2013-08-18, 00:31
http://i.imgur.com/bbzqk4H.jpg
:heh:
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 00:34
In general I would say that I liked the three episodes. However, episodes 15 and 16 (particularly 15) were difficult as anime because they contained a lot of talking, and the directors/storyboard artists couldn't really come up with very interesting ways of covering it all up. As a result, some of the scenes seemed to drag on longer than I would have liked, and other scenes didn't seem to be emphasized enough (because basically they don't contain as much story-critical dialogue). Particularly, Kirino's audio messages were very important, but I found it a bit hard to follow in the anime because they kept cutting to random stills that mean little (and the fact they were just stills made it even more distracting to me). I think Episode 14 fared better because it had a more action-driven plot, so it worked really well as anime. Episode 16 was about half-and-half -- I thought the first part at school dragged a bit, but the rest was pretty good.
All in all, I think it probably needs a rewatch to better-process everything, but it feels like, between these and the prior few episodes, all the loose ends of the plot were wrapped up pretty clearly.
That sure was a nice stance. :heh:
I had a sudden burst of laughter when Kyousuke came with: Incest for the win! I'm going for the imouto ending.
GundamZZ
2013-08-18, 00:35
I heard that sale is bad due to the original ending. Everyone is out.
It's as animation studio slaps faces on every girl's supporters. :heh:
I heard that sale is bad due to the original ending. Everyone is out.
It's as animation studio slaps faces on every girl's supporters. :heh:
So not picking one or being neutral is the best? :heh:
I remembered Carnival's Phantasm skit Date the main heroine vs Conquer them all route.
But still resulted in a bad ending though..
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 00:40
I heard that sale is bad due to the original ending. Everyone is out.
It's as animation studio slaps faces on every girl's supporters. :heh:
When the ending of the novel was revealed, sales of the anime rose tremendously, and the ending of the anime is essentially the same, so what you heard is not correlated to actual data.
Soverence
2013-08-18, 00:41
Well I got to say, I felt like this was a good ending to a great series. The voice actors in all three of the episodes did a spectacular job if you ask me, they really helped bring out the emotions of all the characters and never really fell flat.
Nothing really felt that rushed either except for the final wedding scene which we just kind of teleported to but that isn't really that big of a deal since we can fill in the blanks.
Particularly, Kirino's audio messages were very important, but I found it a bit hard to follow in the anime because they kept cutting to random stills that mean little (and the fact they were just stills made it even more distracting to me).
I kind of agree with you there as well, the stills were a little odd, I get that they were suppose to be stills of places where important events had taken place for the two but they could have at least animated the people and made the area seem alive a little bit. I was kind of actually hopping to see scenes of the two siblings themselves while that recording was being played showing what they had been through but I guess they had used up a lot of the scenes at other points already.
So, now that I've finished watching, I must say it was a very good ending to a very good series. But still, I'll give it an 8. To me as somebody who read the LNs I missed a couple of little things, that although they are details, are important aids in undertanding the ending (like the Mikagami conversation - although I admit, fitting that conversation in would have taken too much valueble time - or the scene prior to the kiss on the cheek when Kirino asked for a merchandise ring). And I agree with the notion that the stills during the audio recordings were kind of unnecessary. It could have been fitting with something better. As for pace, yes, it is hard with all those conversations in 15 and first part of 16. 14 with the Kuroneko scene felt slightly rushed to me.
But after sounding so negative, I had much fun in this episode. To me it was a good representation of the series overall. You had scenes that were funny and cracked you up, you had scenes that were very touching and all of the main characters presented their essence.
Now that this series has concluded it is kind of sad. But on the other hand I'll always find time to rewatch it. I enjoy every episode (well, with the exception of the anime-only content of Episode 8 first season and to a lesser degree Episode 2 of the second season - they just feel a little bit out of place in my opinion). :)
Great ending! I already had my closure when vol 12 came out so i wasnt as emotionally hit! But i am really glad i read the LN first, the LN made this series 100x better.
From an anime only perspective, the scenes were so quick and clear cut that I didnt have enough time to process the information. I think since they had time to make an OVA they should have dragged out the scenes, to let us absorb what was going on (kureneko/Kanako/Manami). Also the biggest thing for me was that it switched from dramatic moments to happy osts which kind of made me confused on how to feel, look back at the scene where kyosuke gets into the minivan, their was to much comic relief. In the LN it still held the dramatic mood. Well, Originals are always 100x better so, koodos, i really liked this anime and LN. My only complaint is that he isnt continueing it!!
Wilshere
2013-08-18, 01:04
Well, they cut a lot of chapter 1,4 and 5 but its okay. I think LN readers are the most frustrated but all-in-all it was a pretty good end to a great series. Ep 15 and last part of 16 were just touching.
Great ending! I already had my closure when vol 12 came out so i wasnt as emotionally hit! But i am really glad i read the LN first, the LN made this series 100x better.
Yes, I'm wondering how an anime-only watcher got hit by the ending. I know Vol.12 quite well, so I could follow up on missing things / additional content / explanational help at the same time. But for anime-only watchers, I can only guess about how they think about the ending.
"Applause, cheers, standing ovations"
The last three episode really lived to the expectation I had for them. The seiyuu was so incredible in their roles that you could feel how much hard work and feeling they've put into their jobs to help contribute to the inevitable conclusion. The scenes were well done and emotionally impacting, and my heart still hurts just remembering Kuroneko ripping up that note that held the precious memories of her and Kyousuke together. My eyes are getting misty here "swipes eyes with tissue".
The fight scene between Manami and Kirino wasn't has climatic as in the novels because their were a bit more inaction and Kyousuke handled the situation are bit more subtle than calmly. None the less, the seiyuu's made up for it for putting alot of work into putting the overall feelings into the scene which didn't feel flat or over the top in anyway. Kana Hanazawa truly shined when she was expressing her sadness and anguish, a truly talented and brilliant seiyuu. My personal favourite.
I wish that the anime including Kouki's story about his marriage to 2D and his scandal with a loli, which I found to be quite funny, but at the same "philosophical" because it sort felt like what Kyousuke was doing in a matter of subtext of course. The ending overall was "acceptable" not the best, but good none the less. I truly enjoyed it, best hour and a half of my morning.
Thank you Tsukasa Fushimi-sensei, the seiyuus, the studio, the artists, the people behind the scenes for making this an incredible journey. I've followed this series for 2 years now and I have no regrets.
I'm still heartbroken that Kuroneko didn't become the end girl, but oh well, PSP game route and fanfiction here I come!:eyespin:
"Applause, cheers, standing ovations"
The last three episode really lived to the expectation I had for them. The seiyuu was so incredible in their roles that you could feel how much hard work and feeling they've put into their jobs to help contribute to the inevitable conclusion. The scenes were well done and emotionally impacting, and my heart still hurts just remembering Kuroneko ripping up that note that held the precious memories of her and Kyousuke together. My eyes are getting misty here "swipes eyes with tissue".
The fight scene between Manami and Kirino wasn't has climatic as in the novels because their were a bit more inaction and Kyousuke handled the situation are bit more subtle than calmly. None the less, the seiyuu's made up for it for putting alot of work into putting the overall feelings into the scene which didn't feel flat or over the top in anyway. Kana Hanazawa truly shined when she was expressing her sadness and anguish, a truly talented and brilliant seiyuu. My personal favourite.
I wish that the anime including Kouki's story about his marriage to 2D and his scandal with a loli, which I found to be quite funny, but at the same "philosophical" because it sort felt like what Kyousuke was doing in a matter of subtext of course. The ending overall was "acceptable" not the best, but good none the less. I truly enjoyed it, best hour and a half of my morning.
Thank you Tsukasa Fushimi-sensei, the seiyuus, the studio, the artists, the people behind the scenes for making this an incredible journey. I've followed this series for 2 years now and I have no regrets.
I'm still heartbroken that Kuroneko didn't become the end girl, but oh well, PSP game route and fanfiction here I come!:)
Yes, I forgot to praise the seiyuu's. The seiyuu's of the main characters were outstanding. Not only in this episode but in the entire series. I think they all captured the essence of the characters. Hanazawa Kana with that specific Kuroneko style, gentle, but sometimes also quite sharp. Taketatsu Ayana with the different shades of Kirino anger, as well as her "good" and gentle sides. Nabatame Hitomi (uh, I only noticed just now that she was also the seiyuu of Margery Daw, would have never guessed it :heh:) with the two sides of Saori, Sato Satomi with the calm-as-always Manami and of course Nakamura Yuichi as Kyousuke (love that Super-Kyousuke mode of him). As for these episodes, I agree, Hanazawa Kana did an excellent job. Especially in that opening scene of 14.
And as I have mentioned above, I also agree that the Mikagami conversation is a quite meaningful one and it is a pity it had to be cut (as it also aids in understanding the ending). But I also see the reason why it was cut, the conversation would have taken a few minutes.
Anyway, nice to hear an unbiased opinion of a Kuroneko-shipper. :)
zero7090
2013-08-18, 01:58
still, Kyosuke level of manliness is off the chart.
Haruyasha
2013-08-18, 02:05
http://i.imgur.com/jHPy9EX.png
A little too fast paced but in the end it came out quite well. I'm also thankful to the seiyuus, they indeed gave life to the characters, specially Kyousuke, his voice really fits his personality.
Either way it was really nice too see the final scenes well animated, even the Manami fight scene was awesome.
Still, I would have loved to see the siscons/brocons fights between the Akagis and Kousakas........
Well, seeing that I have only read the spoilers for the final volume for this series and also only watched the anime and games' clips, I must have missed a quite amount of detail for the LNs. Nonetheless, I thought that this series was a good ride. Granted, not a GREAT series, but a series that I would look back at to say that that was a pretty good series.
The voice actors did an excellent job. I don't need to say anything about HanaKana and Nakamura's skills as voice actors because I've seen the former in many animes and the latter I've seen in Clannad. Ayana Taketatsu was the only one I had no prior knowledge of before venturing into this series. However, she did a great job at the emotional scenes. I certainly was not disappointed.
Now, for me anyways, onto the LNs to read what I have missed.
http://i.imgur.com/bbzqk4H.jpg
:heh:
Someone needs to gif that and when
she gets punched in the face too :heh:
Awesome finale!
Another thing I disliked, was them not showing a hand-holding scene before the meet up with Saori and Kuroneko. :(
Agreed, their time as a couple would have been better represented if that was in left in. However, Kirino's reaction in the ending scene kind of makes up for it.
Her radiant smile while she's running after Kyousuke uses his wish to kiss her is very indicative of her feelings.
All in all, a great ending to a fantastic show. :)
Hiroi Sekai
2013-08-18, 03:34
Oh god, I actually feel nauseous. I could have bitten directly into a thousand lemons and it wouldn't have left as much of a sour taste in my mouth than these scenes do. The more I watched these, the more times they intentionally tried to piss me off.
Sure, systematically go through each girl interested in Kyousuke and have him turn them down in a predictable manner in exchange for his now-turned sister. Hammer it into my skull, I was too dense to read what was happening.
The best part (and I'm a disgusting human being for saying this) was the dirty fight between Manami and Kirino, and only because Manami finally got to act out her frustrations and interrupt the other bullshit that was happening.
I actually feel like I have to go watch Photokano to wash off. That's how far down I am right now, folks. I WOULD RATHER WATCH PHOTOKANO.
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 03:36
Her radiant smile while she's running after Kyousuke uses his wish to kiss her is very indicative of her feelings.
This is true, and is actually something the anime could portray that the novels could not.
I also liked the use of "Reunion" (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4696953&postcount=186) just previously, as I had expected.
This is true, and is actually something the anime could portray that the novels could not.
I also liked the use of "Reunion" (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4696953&postcount=186) just previously, as I had expected.
Indeed, I just rewatched that scene again, and for all the advantages the novels possess in description of feelings, monologues etc. animation has the big advantage of showing expressions. And that sparkling face Kirino showed, more than adaquately expressed her true feelings - something that was guessed around back when the novel came out.
EDIT: Reading your translation of Reunion, it really fits perfectly for the ending.
Whelp, found them gifs :heh:
http://oi39.tinypic.com/4gs137.jpg
http://oi43.tinypic.com/2gviko0.jpg
Manami, da gawd!
http://oi42.tinypic.com/2mg8f2p.jpg
One more for good measure.
http://oi44.tinypic.com/2upbyw9.jpg
Ultra big, so it can be used as people's next wallpaper
This was a great ending for a good serie. I liked it from the start to the end.
9/10
Not 10/10 because seems they really rush everything in the last episodes, a whole 5 ending episode would have been much better but i guess the budget is what it is. :)
This was a great ending for a good serie. I liked it from the start to the end.
9/10
Not 10/10 because seems they really rush everything in the last episodes, a whole 5 ending episode would have been much better but i guess the budget is what it is. :)
That's what I'm thinking. After all my concerns due to rushing of episodes (like Episode 12 with Ayase, or the beginning of 14) and missing content, in the end I don't have a grand solution other than saying the unfeasable: MORE EPISODES! :D
Haruyasha
2013-08-18, 04:21
Whelp, found them gifs :heh:
http://oi39.tinypic.com/4gs137.jpg
http://oi43.tinypic.com/2gviko0.jpg
Manami, da gawd!
http://oi42.tinypic.com/2mg8f2p.jpg
One more for good measure.
http://oi44.tinypic.com/2upbyw9.jpg
Ultra big, so it can be used as people's next wallpaper
Ah, seeing Manami's angry face... That entire scene really reminded me of ...
Not only does Manami look like Ciel, along with the same scary personality, but the whole
"Shiki, you must choose between me (the morally correct choice), or this vampire girl" ... Yep
http://i.imgur.com/nGJ5tYp.jpg
First incest show I watched, the main girl wins. I actually thought back in first season that Manami would be the last boss and that she would actually win. Guess not.
I'm still bitter about episode 12. Can't wait for the bluray to watch and suffer from it again.
7/10
thundrakkon
2013-08-18, 05:12
What a crappy ending to an otherwise good series. It had a conclusion that was horrible, which ended up even worse than horrible. The explanation for the incest route was just there. Then, in the end, the MC ends up with no one. From worse to worst.
Kyousuke was admirable throughout the series, but in the end, he becomes quite despicable. He goes with his crazy yells and movements every time he confesses his love for Kirino, and the story in the end felt like the author did not care anymore; just do whatever to finish this story. It is also reflected in the fact that Kyousuke did not care about anyone else either. It was a, "screw everyone. I'll just do what I want and you should just shut up and take it."
The ending closed up all the loose ends, even if forced and short. However, Kyousuke become pathetic, weird, and a little crazy. He didn't care about what is best for his sister or anyone else anymore. He only cared about his own desires. I have lost respect for him completely, even though throughout the series, I sympathize with him the most.
About the best scene in these last few episodes is when Ruri thrashes him in episode 14. He deserved every bit of it. In the end, Kyousuke is the real loser in all of this, as he essentially has lost everyone, as far as romantic relationships go.
That's a little harsh isn't it. If you read the novel you perhaps won't come to this conclusion. If you follow all the little hints here and there it sure isn't the case that the author didn't care anymore. As for him ending up with nobody, sure this is a possible viewpoint, but digging deeper I don't think that this is an appropriate description of his situation. In order not to write something I have already written, here is my interpretation of the ending based on the novel:
http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=4724752&postcount=3675
EDIT: Where did Kuroneko give Kyousuke a trashing?
Good finale to the series imo...
The series somewhat shows harsh realities in our world, although I won't talk about all of it, remember each character and I'm personally not surprised about their characteristics. I've met people who are similar.
Kuroneko:
Short but understandable if you get where the series is actually heading towards. And even then I personally found it to be good. The rain scene showed the harsh truth that not everyone has a happy ending with another person no matter how hard they try. It showed that it WILL hurt and no matter how strong a person is, they need to fall back on something (Ruri went back to her Kuroneko personality for the rest of the scene after the confession)
Ayase:
I personally found her and Kyousuke's interactions to be more comedic...until it was her time to shine. Her story shows how attraction just happens, we don't choose who we get attached to, it may even be the person you hated the most at first.
I really do wish they'd get their own happy endings animated...but I don't think it's gonna happen :\...
In the end, it seems like no one really ends up with anyone because of the deal Kirino and Kyousuke had, but then you remember that not every deal or promise is kept and cue the last minute between the two.
NoemiChan
2013-08-18, 06:01
I was sad that it ended but my hopes are still up for some extras .
I'm so amazed how Kuroneko and the others are so supported of the incestuous couple. They even made the recorded voice of Kyousuke's confession in public which I find very dangerous if it get to the media and be on the headlines. I find them careless there.
The scene with the eroge game was hilarious. Imagine this, normally, after such confessions and having the couple stay in out room alone, naughty things occur. Emotions are high and they are playing a damn eroge and they even went until the sex scenes!!! hahaha.
Later, we see another girl being rejected by Kyousuke (forgot her name, she's the one wearing that mahou girl cosplay) in front of her fans. I was expecting a riot among them. Thought she sang after, she was really hurt there.. and that scene is just a repetition from season 1.
Now then, they have to settle things with the FINAL boss, Minami. Man, she was so scary!!!! Don't be fooled by that glasses, she's one hell of a tough lady. We saw some fight scenes between the two which later halted by Kyousuke (did he??) Now Kyousuke rejected 4 girls , what a waste.
So at the gladness of the incest shippers like me, we see a mock wedding of incestuous siblings. God that kiss was what I'm waiting for so long... too bad no tongue... Joke.
In the ending.... the promise at the hotel (?) was reveal and I find it weird. So they'll fool around until they graduate and be back to being siblings? That would be hard. I still believe that that will not be realize since these two are just too immature and in love with each other...
Rating 9/10
Arararagi-Senpai
2013-08-18, 06:04
I'm not even sure to begin with these episodes.... I want to do a write-up, but that would just evolve into a rant rather than analysis. So I suppose I can do the short version
-Writing off each heroine as if they were on a checklist, each venting their frustrations, all being useless in the end
- Kyousuke being extremely obnoxious and selfish
- When Kirino's character actually changes in a noticeable way, that development is thrown in the garbage bin (in the most stupid way possible6
- The pacing felt weird in 16
-Many characters lack satisfying closure (I suppose this includes the school itself, as Kyousuke and Manami had obvious attachment to it), or get none at all
- Kirirno aside from (temporarily) lover her beloved Onii-chan didn't change at all
-More I'm probably missing
The part that was the best was Manami's talk with the two, the venting of her frustration really came off as genuine (through I'll agree with Kyousuke on this one that the fighting was not necessary). Though I wish they would've shown Manami's growing frustrations throughout the course of the series. There was some foreshadowing in episode 13 but that was about it.
But overall, very disappointing conclusion to an otherwise decent series.
ginger02
2013-08-18, 06:14
Watching episode 14 but a bit confused. I thought ruri and kyousuke broke up already and been through all that, so why did he come there to tell her that?
also, when did he move back in?
hamazura
2013-08-18, 06:15
best scene : bitch slap kirino, you are my hero manami! want to bitch slap her since the beginning of series :
and dat kuroneko recording kyosukebe confession was to damn funny :p
and super saiyan stance whenever kyosuke confess / reject :p
kyosukebe : confirmed most stupid mc, reject all cute girl to date imoto just to break up afterwards :p
Watching episode 14 but a bit confused. I thought ruri and kyousuke broke up already and been through all that, so why did he come there to tell her that?
also, when did he move back in?
He moved back in at the end of Episode 12. Remember, that last scene with the Ayase rejection was after he checked up whether he had taken everything with him.
As for break up, yes, they broke up. But in Episode 11 he told her he would give her the answer to whether they will get back together when he has sorted out things with Kirino.
Wilshere
2013-08-18, 06:32
If anything, the ending caused more hate on Kirino. WHY?!
If anything, the ending caused more hate on Kirino. WHY?!
Did you honestly expect people who have grown to dislike her over 1 3/4 season would change their opinion based on the ending?
If anything, the ending caused more hate on Kirino. WHY?!
I think that we, Kirino fans, are a minority here.
Also, anime-only viewers lack the details from the Light Novels which would give them a better understanding of the events. For someone who hasn't read the source material, the last three episodes may feel a bit too rushed and confusing.
I think that we, Kirino fans, are a minority here.
Also, anime-only viewers lack the details from the Light Novels which would give them a better understanding of the events. For someone who hasn't read the source material, the last three episodes may feel a bit too rushed and confusing.
Although, since the last volume came out I have the feeling that like 80% of the posters in this subforum sport Kirino avatars. :heh:
As the light novels, I do recommend anime-only watchers to take the time and at least read the last volume. In this series not everything is as clear as they appear and there are many little hints all over the place, the anime has a hard time picking up.
ultimate_noob
2013-08-18, 07:08
Good animated finale.
I loved the sad and crying expressions from ruri in the broken post light. Very detailed.
The fight with manami is also very intense. Loved the desperate and sad looks from manami and kanako. They portrayed it very well. Seeing the kiss scene in color and animated is a treat. I'm glad kirino is happy in the end. I don't care about the other girls but I guess they moved on. A good adaption by A-1 pictures.
finalfury
2013-08-18, 07:53
Applause for Nakamura-san's voice acting.
Decent run, the voice acting was really good. Was happy with the series since I think that I barely had any expectations for it. Going along for the ride feels good.:heh:
The ending was lacking something and didn't really do a good job at bringing it to a close but then again, a lot of endings usually are lacking to be honest.
I do expect most reactions to be very polar on either end of the spectrum though.
My regret is that we couldn't see Kuroneko in that glorious swimsuit.:mad:
I do think Kyousuke is close to defeating Sakurai Tomoki as the Pervert King tho.:heh:
The really amusing thing imo, is that I'm watching these episodes on the same day that I'm going to a wedding.:heh:
As the light novels, I do recommend anime-only watchers to take the time and at least read the last volume. In this series not everything is as clear as they appear and there are many little hints all over the place, the anime has a hard time picking up.
Agreed. Personally, I found the adaptation of Volume 11 a bit lacking. Season 2, episode 13 doesn't quite convey the same message. Specifically, a very important conversation between Kirino, Kyousuke and Manami was left out and the reason for Kyousuke turning into a normal/lazy person isn't fully revealed. Also, the final conversation between Kirino, Kuroneko and Ayase from Volume 11 was sadly never animated.
In certain ways, the last volume builds upon those events and since the anime never shows them, those who don't read the LNs are a bit shortchanged. Kanako's role in the LNs is also a bit bigger so her confession isn't as much of a surprise there.
MasterVampire
2013-08-18, 08:03
Dat kiss.
Why couldnt they stay secret lovers?
GoddyofAus
2013-08-18, 08:05
Well I have to say, as an anime only viewer....That ending was bullshit and contrived. He broke all those girls hearts (at least 4 of them ffs) for the sake of a relationship he knew would never flourish with his own biological sister. I'm lucky to get one girlfriend in 2-3 years and this guy is throwing a handful of them away all at once for nothing!
Dumb, dumb, dumb, and pretty much ruined the entire series.
Dat kiss.
Why couldnt they stay secret lovers?
Well, they weren't secret lovers to begin with. They pretty much told every single one of their close friends. What happens afterwards is up to the reader / viewer. But the author has left enough hints as to where their relationship is possibly headed.
He broke all those girls hearts (at least 4 of them ffs) for the sake of a relationship he knew would never flourish with his own biological sister. I'm lucky to get one girlfriend in 2-3 years and this guy is throwing a handful of them away all at once for nothing!
I have seen this argument a couple of times now. And, ignoring interpretational content, I have to ask this question: Should he then be together with somebody he knows he loves less than another person? Would this be fair to himself and fair to the girl?
finalfury
2013-08-18, 08:34
I have seen this argument a couple of times now. And, ignoring interpretational content, I have to ask this question: Should he then be together with somebody he knows he loves less than another person? Would this be fair to himself and fair to the girl?
No, but love can develop between the two over time. I've seen situations and stories that have pulled this off pretty well(even better than the main romance imo:heh:).
If circumstances demand it, over time, a person can learn to love someone even if there is someone else that they love more.:heh:
The belief that your lover, significant other etc. is the person you love the most in the world isn't exactly as true as many people believe but that really depends on the couple in context tho. :/
All in all, this is a difficult question to answer when you take into account all of the possibilities and scenarios that apply to it.
Peanutbutter
2013-08-18, 09:47
As an anime-only watcher, commenting on the story presented, I'll say this is really bad writing. As an imouto series, usually, the writing goes into the development of why there is an imouto end, then gradually leading the reader to it.
Here, it's like I'm being shoved down the imouto end, and later after that, all the "justifications" and development that I was trying to see before it.
Maybe the light novels does make it slightly better, from a viewer commenting on the author's writing, I'll still think it's really bad writing, and an ending that is shoved on us.
(It's different from my avatar, even from the anime, even though the development was sexual in nature, I still felt better watching that rather than this.)
This is just my point of view. Can't help it if anyone really wants to take it seriously, but I just need to let it out.
That Kuroneko rejection was so heartbreaking I nearly teared. :upset:
That Manami punch was so cool and unexpected I clapped and applauded.
Props to the VAs and Satou Satomi in particular. That cute voice along with that stare, brilliant. Her rejection was also sad to watch.
Really, the best parts of this series were the rejections. I'm definitely not on the Kirino bandwagon. :cool:
And thus the end of a great anime series. Words can't described how I feel. The ending is too bittersweet.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-18, 10:14
No, but love can develop between the two over time. I've seen situations and stories that have pulled this off pretty well(even better than the main romance imo:heh:).
If circumstances demand it, over time, a person can learn to love someone even if there is someone else that they love more.:heh:
The belief that your lover, significant other etc. is the person you love the most in the world isn't exactly as true as many people believe but that really depends on the couple in context tho. :/
All in all, this is a difficult question to answer when you take into account all of the possibilities and scenarios that apply to it.
Even you admit that this is not fair. And for him, those girl deserve better than this. They deserve someone better than him, better than a person who 'might' love them back in the future.
frivolity
2013-08-18, 10:42
Kuroneko, I feel your pain because deep down:
"Yes... from the beginning... I... knew it would... end this way..."
This is one of the most painful rejections I've seen - to hope that things will end the way you want to, yet know that it never will, and still have to watch and smile as you voluntarily tear up all your plans, both literally and figuratively.
With my biased shipper goggles on tight, I think Kuroneko has grown the most out of all the characters, and it's a pity that we don't get to see how things turn out for her.
Benigmatica
2013-08-18, 11:21
What can I say, that Kyou-chan can't be a heartbreaking lady killer!?
Seriously, Nogizaka Haruka no Himitsu is slightly better than this...
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 11:29
No, but love can develop between the two over time. I've seen situations and stories that have pulled this off pretty well(even better than the main romance imo:heh:).
If circumstances demand it, over time, a person can learn to love someone even if there is someone else that they love more.:heh:
The belief that your lover, significant other etc. is the person you love the most in the world isn't exactly as true as many people believe but that really depends on the couple in context tho. :/
I think you're expecting a fair bit of a teenager, though. At his age, he's still driven primarily by hormones, but he's put in a situation where he has all these girls waiting for him to give them an answer. After soul-searching, he follows his heart, and tries to do "the right thing" by closing the doors to help them move on. He knows in his head that the relationship can't work out as easily as it does in games, but he can't reconcile his feelings for Kirino with the idea of committing to a different romantic relationship at that time, and he doesn't want them to keep expecting that of him.
If he were, like, 5-10 years older and more world-wise, then maybe he'd have the maturity needed to compartmentalize his feelings for Kirino and push himself into a relationship with someone else. I suppose you could even argue that this is what he was doing without realizing it when Kirino encouraged him to get into a relationship with Ruri -- if Ruri had let that progress, he may have been able eventually to let his feelings for Kirino die down. But for him to make that sort of choice consciously at his age requires a lot more wisdom/maturity than most teenagers have, in my experience at least.
In the end, Kyousuke had to do what it made sense for Kyousuke to do in that situation at his age, not necessarily what we as viewers would have done at our age in his situation.
shironeko8
2013-08-18, 11:33
this was me the whole time:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8SYGtO8tYOxyJWmSjg78Wn6btKhWsm h6ftTwnkuPM4ZNBKJsE
No, but love can develop between the two over time. I've seen situations and stories that have pulled this off pretty well(even better than the main romance imo:heh:).
If circumstances demand it, over time, a person can learn to love someone even if there is someone else that they love more.:heh:
The belief that your lover, significant other etc. is the person you love the most in the world isn't exactly as true as many people believe but that really depends on the couple in context tho. :/
All in all, this is a difficult question to answer when you take into account all of the possibilities and scenarios that apply to it.
Sorry to but in but....the moment you said "No" it's already wrong in my opinion. Take note that all this is just opinionated but...I feel that it's wrong to accept to tell someone you love them when there's someone else you love more. It's insulting to the girl as if they're just your "backup" or "2nd best." While what you say IS true that the love can grow, I don't think someone should go into the relationship before then, there are ways to get yourself some time to decide and Kyousuke kinda did that with Ruri, and when he finally did decide he told her.
BaKaBaKaOtaKu
2013-08-18, 11:44
One of the worst ends I've seen so far. Manami doing such a thing to Kirino was the nicest thing though.
vadrigar848
2013-08-18, 11:52
i wonder if they are going to add the missing scenes in the BD release such as the mikagami scene.
just like fate zero, where saber, gil, rider were talking together. in the BD relase the episode, if i remember correctly, clocked 26 or 28 minutes.
kentasaiba
2013-08-18, 11:54
http://s14.postimg.org/ynyf01akx/Horrible_Subs_Oreimo_S2_16_480p_001_15151.png
Welcome in the 21th century
Guy Incognito
2013-08-18, 12:40
i wish it was less vague but i like the ending.
finalfury
2013-08-18, 13:00
I think you're expecting a fair bit of a teenager, though.
Sorry to but in but....the moment you said "No" it's already wrong in my opinion.
Even you admit that this is not fair. And for him, those girl deserve better than this. They deserve someone better than him, better than a person who 'might' love them back in the future.
a)I was expecting a little too much out of a teenager but that's more my fault than his to be frank. He did alright for a kid his age, but sometimes being a kid can't excuse a person from their actions which is why I judge harsher than most people. :/
Was mostly thinking of Maison Ikkoku and Itazura na Kiss as examples of two people ending up together despite not being #1 in their heart.
b)Was mostly thinking of people who value their children more than their significant other thus making them their #1 in their hearts. If a father loves his children more than his significant other, should his significant other feel insulted that he loves someone else more than the significant other?
c)They probably do, but I think they also need to grow up more because there's a lot out there that they need to experience first. But in the end, life isn't as fair as we want it to be.
I was just suggesting that it is possible that two people would end up together even if they are not in love with other or love someone else and it could be fleshed out decently but I didn't intend to imply that I was suggesting that it should happen and I apologize if I sounded like that.
tl;dr: I didn't explain myself well enough and didn't include enough specifics.
That was awful. Absolutely awful. The writing for this series has never been very good in the first place but it reached a new low in these final episodes. If you want to make an incest ending despite it not making sense in the first place (at least in the context of the anime, I don't know and don't care about the light novels), do it. Don't cop out at the last minute. He rejected all those awesome girls for the chance to be with Kirino only for a few months? You have to be kidding me... that's just adding to the injury. I can't think of any way they could have made this ending worse.
The only good scene was Manami punching Kirino. I'm not pro violence but I have to admit that was incredibly satisfying. The vindicative **** totally deserved it. This made suffering through these three episodes worth it. Kind of.
In the end, Kuroneko remained the best girl in this show by far. She was able to remain friends with Kirino and support her even after all this. I hope she'll find somebody better than Kyousuke.
viperdk1
2013-08-18, 13:22
Stopped watching after the first one of these so I've missed things like the Kirino/Manami fight etc. - all I can say that it's struck off my list of anime.
The whole thing doesn't make any sense - this plot point of Kyousuke confessing and proposing to Kirino (and her ACCEPTING after yelling out how creepy it all is) is so hopelessly forced into the series that it feels less like shoehorning and more hammering the damn thing in. The whole incestuous nature of it was bad enough, but this takes enough biscuits to fill a school hallway.
Seriously bad, horrible, awful, I'm running out of derogatory words to say about it. Very disappointing.
OK, so instead of Copout Terrible Ending or Even Worse Terrible Ending, they plumped for Completely Nonsensical but Slighty Less Terrible Ending. Which doesn't make it any better.
High point: MANAMI PUNCH!
Heartwrenching point: Kuroneko's wail.
The only good scene was Manami punching Kirino. I'm not pro violence but I have to admit that was incredibly satisfying. The vindicative **** totally deserved it. This made suffering through these three episodes worth it. Kind of.
That's kind of a contradiction in itself. By stating it was a good scene, and she deserved it you are professing support for violence in this specific case. :p
But this smart-arsing aside, the anime would have needed more episodes to capture all those little details that give meaning to the ending and also do a better job describing the road to. Although I disagree the notion that "it never made sense". Kirino's feelings were clear from the first season on and Kyousuke on some occasions showed care that exceeded mere siblings' responsibility.
The hate Kirino gets is also kind of unfair. Just as Kuroneko supported Kirino, Kirino supported Kuroneko. She didn't object her confessing and she pushed Kyousuke into giving her serious consideration. Always kind of funny when in a show Person X is caring very much about Person Y, but fans of Person X absolutely detest Person Y. :D
EDIT: Suddenly I get the feeling this Manami punch into the gut was included for the satisfaction of all those who dislike Kirino. :heh:
Wilshere
2013-08-18, 13:39
That was awful. Absolutely awful. The writing for this series has never been very good in the first place but it reached a new low in these final episodes. If you want to make an incest ending despite it not making sense in the first place (at least in the context of the anime, I don't know and don't care about the light novels), do it. Don't cop out at the last minute. He rejected all those awesome girls for the chance to be with Kirino only for a few months? You have to be kidding me... that's just adding to the injury. I can't think of any way they could have made this ending worse.
The only good scene was Manami punching Kirino. I'm not pro violence but I have to admit that was incredibly satisfying. The vindicative **** totally deserved it. This made suffering through these three episodes worth it. Kind of.
In the end, Kuroneko remained the best girl in this show by far. She was able to remain friends with Kirino and support her even after all this. I hope she'll find somebody better than Kyousuke.
Here we go again with the ''Kuroneko deserves better'' excuses. If so, why did she fall in love with him? She always admits that he is useless and stuff but she likes him that way, add to that, that he always is there to help and is simply a very kind guy. Once again, the anime did not do a very good job in clearing the Manami/Kirino mess alongside the build-up which led him to fall for her. One more thing, its really sad seeing this Kirino hate where to the extent people rejoice in seeing her hurt.If anything, Kuroneko wanted this to happen and she admits that she always knew that from the get-go, not surprising for me(or whoever watched the series for the plot and not giving much unnecessary attention to the side characters), hence your disappointment. I said it many times, blame yourself if you expected any different ending than this. Most people nowadays watch anime not for the plot or build-up, but for their ''girls''. Harsh reality is bitter, but you must cope with it.
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 13:41
He rejected all those awesome girls for the chance to be with Kirino only for a few months? You have to be kidding me... that's just adding to the injury. I can't think of any way they could have made this ending worse.
That isn't all that resulted. Kirino was originally going to go off overseas but that got called off regardless of their "dating" arrangement. So he gets to continue to be with Kirino indefinitely going forward, even if they've "gone back to being normal siblings" (pending the results of the additional life counselling). In the end, you might argue that continuing to be together was more important for them than what exact form their relationship took.
(Not that I expect this to change your opinion.)
The whole thing doesn't make any sense - this plot point of Kyousuke confessing and proposing to Kirino (and her ACCEPTING after yelling out how creepy it all is) is so hopelessly forced into the series that it feels less like shoehorning and more hammering the damn thing in. Weren't Kirino's true feelings already betrayed in Episode 13 where we understood how much she loved Kyousuke? (Not to mention all the prior episodes about how she wanted to be number one in his life, didn't want him to date anyone else, was jealous when he was going out with Kuroneko, and on and on.) Given that she's been in love with him all this time, and yet still constantly going on about how creepy it is, it seems clear that she's both a) being dishonest about her feelings, and b) conflicted about the fact that her feelings aren't normal (as she was told by Manami). This was further reinforced in Episode 15.
As for Kyousuke and his timing, this too was foreshadowed in Episode 11 and 12: in 11 he told Kuroneko that he had to settle things with Kirino before he could give her an answer, and in 12 he rejected Ayase because he already had someone he loved. He also found out that Kirino was planning to leave to go overseas again. So there were lots of reasons why now was right time, and it wasn't forced into the narrative.
(Again, not that I expect this will change your opinion either.)
I knew they were going with the implied ending that's in the books.....but still.... goddamn.
Thanks show. This series is ruined completely ruined for me.
Dr. Casey
2013-08-18, 14:20
Just watched episode 14; I'm going to watch 15 after posting this, then I'll do 16 later tonight.
I have to say that I was really pleased with the way the scene with Kuroneko was handled. I was expecting the typical feel good, at times unrealistic anime fare where the rejected party wishes the other person well, tells them they 'always knew this would happen' with the greatest sense of of acceptance and enlightedness... but nope, Kuroneko is just hurt and angry and makes it clear that she hates the way things turned out. Very honest scene that avoided the pitfalls into blandness that I was afraid things might take the moment it started. If I was Kyosuke, once she started tearing the diary apart and ranting about how she was Yamineko, I might have had to go "Uh, wait. Is it too late to take all that back and date you again after all? You're pretty sexy when you're angry."
Whenever Saori and her sister pulled up, I thought that Saori was the driver and it was Ayase in the passenger's seat (forgetting, of course, that the front seats are reversed in Japan compared to what they are in the US). It's cool that the two sisters recovered from their falling out, though I was a little disappointed that Ayase-tan hadn't returned after all, since she's one of my favorite characters.
sleepingleo
2013-08-18, 14:44
One last time I pour my opinion (since this is a poll, any opinion is valid) : I hate the original ending, hate this ending and the author disgusts me. I won't elaborate on this, I already did in the novel thread a while ago and since that thread was most seized by Kirino shippers my opinions were not always welcome. So just, yeah, haters gonna hate. Since the ending came to light I became one. I'm sad one of my favorite series had to end like this. With a re-watching value of ZERO for me.
Haruyasha
2013-08-18, 14:46
Wait, why is it so satisfying that Kirino got punched? Sure, she got annoying there a bit.. But keeping in mind Kirino is a junior high school girl..
Tbh, I found this much more satisfying:
http://i.imgur.com/FF5fZnE.jpg
She was asking for it. Always sticking her nose into places where it didn't belong. It was creepy how she always knew every factor of Kyousuke's life.
Tenchi Ryu
2013-08-18, 15:01
Manami definitely won that fight. I was like "DAAAYUUUMMMMM". And that was before the KO gut punch. Good to see Kirino get some form of ass whoopin, never thought it would happen on a show like this.
psycho bolt
2013-08-18, 15:48
finally got to see some cat fights
kentasaiba
2013-08-18, 16:00
everybody got what them deserve. Kyousuke Kirino and Manami a punch in her face.
I think I'm hugely disappointed in the ending. Part of it is likely due to some things being rushed, but the other is massively due to the cop out.
Starting with ep 14, to be honest, I was 50/50 on how I felt for Kuroneko. She gave her blessing to KyouxKiri, so no amount of tears will make me feel sorry for her. But she was rejected, and I can have some sympathy for those who are rejected. She broke up with Kyousuke though, and was more than willing to help him after the rejection too. So yea, not much from me. It was kinda quick too, like a random point to begin the final episodes.
To be fair, it all felt quick. Kyou falling for Kirino really kinda just happens in these episodes. Sure, there were feelings before, but here they become concrete. The part at school and with Kanako felt pointless too, in the face of rushing through things in this bunch of episodes and from the previous episodes in season 2. There was no need to go through all that with Kanako, but we did, and the series suffers for it.
Still, I'd have probably been fine with it had the ending actually been better. I don't require all endings to be finalized and can deal with open endings, but this feels like a massive cop out from going full incest route. I wouldn't have minded so much had it flowed well, but the faking between Kirino and Kyousuke from when they apparently decided to go back to being normal feels massively cheap. Why would Kyousuke be okay with that? Not after all he's said and done, it doesn't feel realistic. It massively cheapens the whole fight with Manami too, aside from Kirino getting her revenge.
Best part of the 14-16 eps: Kuroneko becoming Black Lotus
Worst part of 14-16 eps: Too many (Ayase MIA was a shame too)
That's kind of a contradiction in itself. By stating it was a good scene, and she deserved it you are professing support for violence in this specific case. :p
Hence the "but". I know this is contradictory but I just can't help it. That's just how it made me feel and I'm not proud of it.
The hate Kirino gets is also kind of unfair. Just as Kuroneko supported Kirino, Kirino supported Kuroneko. She didn't object her confessing and she pushed Kyousuke into giving her serious consideration. Always kind of funny when in a show Person X is caring very much about Person Y, but fans of Person X absolutely detest Person Y.
That's true, but you also have to take into account what happened before and after she gave Kuroneko her approval. She pulled that stunt with the fake boyfriend to make it clear to Kyousuke that she didn't like him flirting with Kuroneko, and then after Kuroneko had her face her real feelings she had him promise he wouldn't go out with anybody. She's definitely not as selfless as Kuroneko is (she admits herself that she is very selfish).
Here we go again with the ''Kuroneko deserves better'' excuses. If so, why did she fall in love with him? She always admits that he is useless and stuff but she likes him that way, add to that, that he always is there to help and is simply a very kind guy. Once again, the anime did not do a very good job in clearing the Manami/Kirino mess alongside the build-up which led him to fall for her. One more thing, its really sad seeing this Kirino hate where to the extent people rejoice in seeing her hurt.If anything, Kuroneko wanted this to happen and she admits that she always knew that from the get-go, not surprising for me(or whoever watched the series for the plot and not giving much unnecessary attention to the side characters), hence your disappointment. I said it many times, blame yourself if you expected any different ending than this. Most people nowadays watch anime not for the plot or build-up, but for their ''girls''. Harsh reality is bitter, but you must cope with it.
Calm down and read again. I didn't say she deserved better. I said I hope she'll find someone better. I'm not saying she deserves better than Kyousuke, I'm saying she deserves happiness.
It's perfectly fine to be disappointed over Kuroneko's loss. She received just as much romantic development if not more than Kirino in the anime. Why should I not care about her? She is in no way a side character we shouldn't give any unnecessary attention to, to quote your words. As a love interest, she was just as important as Kirino and her chances of winning were fair. Well, at least until she self-destructed in episode 8. After that it was obvious she wouldn't win but not all hope was lost yet.
By the way, this isn't reality. This is wish fulfillment fantasy for otaku.
That isn't all that resulted. Kirino was originally going to go off overseas but that got called off regardless of their "dating" arrangement. So he gets to continue to be with Kirino indefinitely going forward, even if they've "gone back to being normal siblings" (pending the results of the additional life counselling). In the end, you might argue that continuing to be together was more important for them than what exact form their relationship took.
(Not that I expect this to change your opinion.)
That's a good point. That's the one positive thing I can take away from this ending. I'm not sure this was the only way to accomplish this result, however. This remains a massive cop out.
It's a shame that it ended too like this, because other than the implied incestyay, it's a pretty fun look at being an otaku
Fucking hell.....no wonder people look down on anime sometimes for this shit.
In happier terms though; THANK YOU MANAMI. And someone seriously needs to give Kuroneko her own spinoff.
ginger02
2013-08-18, 16:28
Finished watching. Two parts confused me though:
1. Why did Kyousuke break up with everyone when he knew he and Kirino would go back to being normal siblings?
2. I never really got the feeling he really had feelings for Kirino, so his confession seemed a bit random to me.
Otherwise I loved it. Was a little rushed, and could have switched Kanako with Ayase to be better. The show kind of touches on the subject for those who do have incestuous feelings, which I like that it did. Also, the life of an otaku was great. The kiss on the cheek was the cutest moment though.
And someone seriously needs to give Kuroneko her own spinoff.
She got a manga already!
That's true, but you also have to take into account what happened before and after she gave Kuroneko her approval. She pulled that stunt with the fake boyfriend to make it clear to Kyousuke that she didn't like him flirting with Kuroneko, and then after Kuroneko had her face her real feelings she had him promise he wouldn't go out with anybody. She's definitely not as selfless as Kuroneko is (she admits herself that she is very selfish).
I'm not saying she is quite as selfless as Kuroneko, but she I checked that scene again, and she never made Kyousuke promise that he won't go out with anybody. I quote that scene:
Kirino: What were you planning to answer back then (when Kuroneko asked him what he would answer, now that he knows Kirino's true feelings)?
Kyou: [...] I can't get a girlfriend if you don't want me to. Not yet, at least.
Kirino: Not yet? Then, when?
Kyou: When you get a boyfriend, I guess?
Kirino: But you don't want me to get a boyfriend either, right?
Kyou: Yeah
Kirino: That's no good.
Kyou: No, it isn't.
And that thing with Mikagami, while immature, was understandable. Kyousuke was too dense to pick her emotions up and she also couldn't tell him straight (which Kyousuke would have found ridiculous by the way). Kyousuke flirts around not only with Kuroneko, but also with Ayase and Manami (she specifically mentioned Manami and Kuroneko). But when Mikagami came, Kyousuke made the hell of a ruckus and when Kirino compared that with him flirting he honestly didn't see the comparability of him flirting and her bringing a (fake) boyfriend. Kyousuke in this instance was not only dense, but also very inconsiderate.
Furthermore, I think her going abroad with the intention of confessing to Kyousuke before is a hint to interpreting what she intended to do. She planned to confess to him to get a close on this relationship (either positive, or what she feared negative). And if his response turned out negative she would leave abroad to enable them both a new beginning, relieving Kyousuke of the self-given responsibility of not getting a girlfriend because she doesn't like it. As I quoted above, she said it is no good if both of them tie their relationship fates together, so her solution is leaving. It may not be as selfless as Kuroneko, but she sure cares enough about him, not to give him hurdles if he turns her down.
By the way, a few pages ago somebody said Kyousuke looked like a retard with that screaming around, and I have to agree to a certain degree. Him going berserk during the confession, and to a degree with Manami was somewhat okay. But I think the staff really turned it into a running joke when he screamed around and bended backwards in that Kanako scene. I was surprised by this because this wasn't how I imagined it, having read the novel. I imagined him looking at Kanako and saying in a determined, but calm voice, that he can't date her. Here's the passage from the novel:
"With a dignified voice, I shouted my answer:
“I refuse! I can’t go out with you! ---- Because I already have a girlfriend that I love above everything else!” "
His answer in the anime was anything but dignified...
taichi-kun
2013-08-18, 16:35
If you want to make an incest ending despite it not making sense in the first place (at least in the context of the anime, I don't know and don't care about the light novels), do it. Don't cop out at the last minute. He rejected all those awesome girls for the chance to be with Kirino only for a few months? You have to be kidding me... that's just adding to the injury. I can't think of any way they could have made this ending worse.
I agree :(
he rejected ALL the girls just to be alone in the end..what an idiot... some people will say that their agreement made it more realistic,I found it cheap and a stupid thing to do.
Oh and that final kiss.. when I read the book I thought it was on the lips.. but it was a kiss on her cheek that makes the incest end less probable :upset:
the end is too open
Sumeragi
2013-08-18, 16:36
I'll be waiting for the Afterstory.
Miraluka
2013-08-18, 16:40
I'll be waiting for the Afterstory.
This.
Or one can stick to their... ff ends.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-18, 16:45
I've been reading this forum for too long and I created an account precisely because this topic.
I'm one of the only ones that are open minded and know how to separate the real world form the 2D world?
I think that this ending was the possible one, because of everything that was implied in the Manga / Anime / LN.
The topic in question is controversial and not well accepted by the society we live. At least was different from the normal not "blood related" siblings (PhotoKano is one of the most recent Animes I watched where that happened, for example). Of course being blood related siblings, this were the possible way of warping everything around.
The fight in question was good, I loved the sentiment that were show there, from both parties, and I'm with the MC. He had choose what he wanted, what was the best for him and is to him that he needs to give justifications, not to anyone.
I do not feel sorry for Manami, I never liked her. She always had the upper hand, knowing everything even without anyone telling her, sticking is nose in someone's business. She deserved to be happy in the end? Probably, but also Ayase, Ruri and Kanako deserved. But they were turned down by the MC. The ending in question, leaves a little fell that things will be not as were in the beginning, and the last life counselling after MC demanded his "trophy" for getting a A in the Mock Exam that we will never see implies that. The author left lots of flags that implies that!
In overall, I will miss this history, I enjoyed the story, the jokes on it and the turnarounds that were shown. Was a good show.
I agree :(
he rejected ALL the girls just to be alone in the end..what an idiot... some people will say that their agreement made it more realistic,I found it cheap and a stupid thing to do.
Oh and that final kiss.. when I read the book I thought it was on the lips.. but it was a kiss on her cheek that makes the incest end less probable :upset:
the end is too open
I found it disappointing that the Mikagami scene and the scene right before the kiss weren't included. These scenes are quite meaningful for a proper interpretation of the ending. For anime-only watchers, I quote part of a post I made after finishing the novel, also including my view, why one has to look deeper before saying "they are going back to normal siblings!":
1) Do Kirino and Kyousuke return to being normal siblings?: Their agreement does stipulate that after they graduate they return to being normal siblings. So, why do I put that in a question mark? Now first of all, disregarding their possible intentions, I think it is impossible for them to return to being your normal siblings, even if they wanted. The reason, or better assumption, given by myself is, it is impossible for them to return to being normal siblings as long as they love each other and are aware of this fact. And despite them seemingly breaking up after the marriage ceremony I think it can be seen as pretty sure, that they still love each other.
[...]
Another question in this context is, if they return to being normal siblings after the wedding, what was the sense of that wedding? Because if they indeed return to to being normal siblings, this wedding ceremony was completely violating the meaning of wedding. A wedding normally seals the relationship of a couple, so if they went back to being siblings, this wedding would be more like a divorce (or a marriage-then-divorce) ceremony.
2) What does the wedding ceremony mean?: So, the question now is, what does this wedding ceremony mean? It is clear, that this was no official wedding. This wedding was organized by Kyousuke just for the two of them, nobody else was there. Not their parents, and also not the friends they had informed about their relationship (and who supported them). Now, does this mean this was a fake wedding, a wedding just for fun, or in truth an ending ceremony? My view on this is, this was indeed a legit wedding ceremony.
First of all, a look at the motivation of the protagonists Kyousuke and Kirino. Kyousuke makes it very clear, that he treats this wedding very seriously and not as some kind of joke / fun event. He states in Chapter 6
- "Let's go and get married."
- The line that is only spoken once in a lifetime, [...]
[...]
Now of course is the issue, they held a wedding ceremony that has not been attended or recognized by anybody. And Kirino herself always mentioned that siblings are not allowed to marry. At this point, I think the Mikagami part is pretty important. Mikagami's statement was never contradicted by Kyousuke and Kyousuke seemed to be impressed by it. Assuming the author didn't include this part just to show how crazy Mikagami is (that should be clear enough with that bike thing :heh:), then I think it is safe to conclude that this passage has its meaning when interpreting Kirino's and Kyousuke's wedding. So what was that part?
Mikagami & Kyousuke in Chapter 6- "Although I have said it before, there will be some obstacles when siblings want to marry each other — but I have successfully married a 2D girl."
"What is with your righteous expression! That is not the current problem!"
"It's the same. Marriage is not something the law can decide, it's something you decide for yourself. True, based on this country's law, I couldn't marry Rinko. But so what?"
Mikagami is so cool ~
As for the scene right before the kiss in the end, there Kirino looks at some merchandise and asks Kyousuke to buy her a ring. Out of all things a ring. When Kyousuke replies why he should do that, as they are not dating anymore, she replies "because we are siblings" (exactly the same phrase he would use a moment later). And then follows the scene of Kyousuke kissing her.
My face throughout the entire latter half of episode 14:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b165/xsaydex/KissSubLovelyComplex-157F3FEE74XviDavi_snapshot_2007_20110217_160227_zp se9325c56.jpg
Having already spoiled the episode for myself going into it, it didn't stop it from being highly amusing (albeit in a very awkward way). It got to point where I just kept saying to myself "heh...wow, this is really happening...".
I don't have any strong opinions either way about the whole incest aspect, but the way the confession played out in such a public manner just made me look on in disbelief as if to say "seriously?"
Anyways, I don't know if I can watch the last 2 episodes back to back. Never before have I found watching a train-wreck in slow motion to be so intriguing. I guess its because I didn't expect it from an anime like this (whose tone is considerably different from something like say...Koi Kaze).
OverMaster
2013-08-18, 17:12
The plot was always in Kirino's pocket from Day One. Events and characters would always play on her favor, and Manami's brave stand is more of a token attempt to make that less obvious than anything else. So this comes as no surprise. Doesn't make it a good end, though. Telegraphed crappy end is still crappy.
I don't have any strong opinions either way about the whole incest aspect, but the way the confession played out in such a public manner just made me look on in disbelief as if to say "seriously?"
I was also surprised how open the confession went. Having read the novel I imagined it being in a more isolated place. For example a smaller side-road where people would still be present, but just not that much in the open. They were basically right on a lively main road. :uhoh:
I was also surprised how open the confession went. Having read the novel I imagined it being in a more isolated place. For example a smaller side-road where people would still be present, but just not that much in the open. I was anticipating more or less the same.
They were basically right on a lively main road. :uhoh:Fun fact: I think I actually spent more of my attention counting how many people were looking on during those scenes.
Fun fact: I think I actually spent more of my attention counting how many people were looking on during those scenes.
And everybody just stood there frozen for the entire process. :heh:
Joke aside, I thought they could have at least have made it somewhat more livelier. Not only here, but basically in every setting with many people the surrounding just freezes. Like the Kanako confession, or in an earlier episode the scene where Kuroneko forces Kirino to admit that she doesn't want her brother to get a girlfriend.
I've been reading this forum for too long and I created an account precisely because this topic.
I'm one of the only ones that are open minded and know how to separate the real world form the 2D world?
I think that this ending was the possible one, because of everything that was implied in the Manga / Anime / LN.
I know it's 2D and fictional. But still.......when people dismiss anime as being porn or kiddy crap, shit like this doesn't help exactly. Hell, at least they're not related by blood in Brother's Conflict...even though that show is getting on my nerves too.
In overall, I will miss this history, I enjoyed the story, the jokes on it and the turnarounds that were shown. Was a good show.
It was until this.
and WHERE DOES KURONEKO HAVE HER OWN MANGA? I wanna read it...*big eyes* Someone should give her a series like they did with Illya from F/S
pagan poor
2013-08-18, 17:26
That was awful. Absolutely awful. The writing for this series has never been very good in the first place but it reached a new low in these final episodes. If you want to make an incest ending despite it not making sense in the first place (at least in the context of the anime, I don't know and don't care about the light novels), do it. Don't cop out at the last minute. He rejected all those awesome girls for the chance to be with Kirino only for a few months? You have to be kidding me... that's just adding to the injury. I can't think of any way they could have made this ending worse.
The only good scene was Manami punching Kirino. I'm not pro violence but I have to admit that was incredibly satisfying. The vindicative **** totally deserved it. This made suffering through these three episodes worth it. Kind of.
This is how I felt too. Especially the boldface. They could always be siblings who hold each other in high regard. Not going on some temporary romp and then stomp on the others feelings in the process. Hell, that whole scene with Manami punching Kirino was like me punching the writer(s) for this crap ending.
Guess I'll have to see about reading that part with Mikigami and Kyousuke talking before hand to get a better handle on this. But I sincerely doubt my thoughts will change.
And everybody just stood there frozen for the entire process. :heh:
Joke aside, I thought they could have at least have made it somewhat more livelier. Not only here, but basically in every setting with many people the surrounding just freezes. Like the Kanako confession, or in an earlier episode the scene where Kuroneko forces Kirino to admit that she doesn't want her brother to get a girlfriend.
While I don't know if our reasons for agreeing are the same, I do concur. When they just stand there motionless for such long periods of time, it just makes an awkward moment feel even more awkward to watch for some reason.
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 17:39
Not going on some temporary romp and then stomp on the others feelings in the process.
This is the part that I don't really understand, even still. What was Kyousuke supposed to do except reject the confessions from the girls he didn't love? It's not like he's planning to go "back on the market" as soon as his "fling" with Kirino is over. If the other girls don't have a chance, why lead them on? He's not going to keep them as "backup plans".
DXMichael
2013-08-18, 17:39
Man, I really have mixed feelings about these last few episodes. I can completely agree and understand the people who found the ending very disappointing and unsatisfying. I myself was hoping for Kuroneko being the one, but once I saw Kirino happy like that with Kyousuke, I was fully satisfied with them being together and actually started supporting the two throughout the episodes.
One of the things that surprised and baffled me was the sudden change with Manami and her outbreak towards Kirino, granted, the way Kirino acted she was practically asking for it, but throughout this anime I liked Manami, then all that went out the window when she struck the first blow and acted the way she did. I really wanted some sort of ending where two people we're together and she was in the way, not that it mattered anyway since in the end they weren't a couple anyway -_- Obviously she was stating the obvious about how what they were doing was wrong, but hell, I just wanted them to be happy.
But it's like, is Manami and Kyousuke's friendship over? The series ended with nothing indicating on if they were ok and both Kyousuke and Kirino ended up not being a couple. How unsatisfying is that? *Sigh* I really just wanted Kyousuke to be permanently with someone by the end XD
While I don't know if our reasons for agreeing are the same, I do concur. When they just stand there motionless for such long periods of time, it just makes an awkward moment feel even more awkward to watch for some reason.
Well, I do agree that it felt awkward seeing that recording being broadcast in such a wide open environment (and Kyousuke screaming around). With all those people just frozen there it felt... strange. What I imagined was was smaller side-road, two big and tall buildings to the two sides and slightly dark. Also, it would have been somewhat less awkward if the little comments of the people nearby in the novel were included (like "Siblings?" or "Are they filming a movie?").
Not going on some temporary romp and then stomp on the others feelings in the process.
Why are some people saying stomp on the feelings of others? I think it is worse if somebody chooses to be with somebody, simply because he / she can't be together with his / her loved one, because of whatever reason. Perhaps I am in the minority here, but I would prefer a rejection to being a replacement for somebody the other person loves more. This would be very disrespectful. And I also think that's Kuroneko's view. She doesn't want to be chosen by Kyousuke only because he can't be together with Kirino. That's part of the reason why she went out and cut the bridges behind him by tearing up the Destiny Record and sending out that broadcast during the confession.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-18, 17:49
I know it's 2D and fictional. But still.......when people dismiss anime as being porn or kiddy crap, shit like this doesn't help exactly. Hell, at least they're not related by blood in Brother's Conflict...even though that show is getting on my nerves too.
It was until this.
and WHERE DOES KURONEKO HAVE HER OWN MANGA? I wanna read it...*big eyes* Someone should give her a series like they did with Illya from F/S
Kuroneko has their own manga, that covers the extra episodes in the first Season, the ones when Kirino was in the USA.
Look for Ore no Kouhai ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai.
Dr. Casey
2013-08-18, 17:54
I do find it a little confusing that Kyosuke told Manami about how he loved Kirino enough that he was willing to accept all the risks that a sibling relationship would entail, only to decide (or agree to Kirino's suggestion without any resistance, rather) that due to all the risks, their relationship should be a temporary one. :confused: I'm guessing the Light Novels delve into his thought processes more.
I really enjoyed the final boss battle against Manami. One thing I always find fascinating in stories is where one character sets into action the chain of events that make up the story, and the clusterfuck of drama and strained relationships that result can basically be placed at one person's feet - in this story's case, Manami. I don't mean that in the sense of the old 'Manami is the villain of the series' rhetoric (I think she's anything but), just that she's the one who inadvertently knocked the first domino over with her gentle scolding of Kirino a few years before the story begins, ultimately creating a fairly big mess that drew in various people she didn't even know existed at the time such as Kuroneko and Ayase.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-18, 17:54
That was awful. Absolutely awful. The writing for this series has never been very good in the first place but it reached a new low in these final episodes. If you want to make an incest ending despite it not making sense in the first place (at least in the context of the anime, I don't know and don't care about the light novels), do it. Don't cop out at the last minute. He rejected all those awesome girls for the chance to be with Kirino only for a few months? You have to be kidding me... that's just adding to the injury. I can't think of any way they could have made this ending worse.
You said the ending doesn't make sense for anime only viewer. I have to ask 'what part doesn't make sense'? Kyousuke choose the girl he love despite he knew that their love most likely won't be able to last long, despite that he have to break many girls's heart in the process. If it's not understandable for you, what is?
And 'cop out'? It's the same as saying Zero requiem is a way for LL to escape all of his sin. Kyousuke and Kirino decided on this ending BEFORE they entered a relationship, so how could it be a cop out? Because the viewer only saw it at the last minutes? That's ridiculous.
Stopped watching after the first one of these so I've missed things like the Kirino/Manami fight etc. - all I can say that it's struck off my list of anime.
The whole thing doesn't make any sense - this plot point of Kyousuke confessing and proposing to Kirino (and her ACCEPTING after yelling out how creepy it all is) is so hopelessly forced into the series that it feels less like shoehorning and more hammering the damn thing in. The whole incestuous nature of it was bad enough, but this takes enough biscuits to fill a school hallway.
Seriously bad, horrible, awful, I'm running out of derogatory words to say about it. Very disappointing.
It's VERY clear that Kirino had romantic feeling toward Kyousuke in anime, isn't it? Why can't she accept? Because she yelled out 'creepy' and 'gross'? This is the exactly reason she had been telling herself for 3 years: common sense kicked in (there is self-denial, but anime-only viewer probably don't know about it).
Finished watching. Two parts confused me though:
1. Why did Kyousuke break up with everyone when he knew he and Kirino would go back to being normal siblings?
2. I never really got the feeling he really had feelings for Kirino, so his confession seemed a bit random to me.
Otherwise I loved it. Was a little rushed, and could have switched Kanako with Ayase to be better. The show kind of touches on the subject for those who do have incestuous feelings, which I like that it did. Also, the life of an otaku was great. The kiss on the cheek was the cutest moment though.
1.To show us and everyone how serious he was. Despite that love lasted for a few months at most, he viewed them as 'totally worth it'.
2.I admitted that the anime is not very clear on that part. There is nothing else I can say in this point >.>
This is how I felt too. Especially the boldface. They could always be siblings who hold each other in high regard. Not going on some temporary romp and then stomp on the others feelings in the process. Hell, that whole scene with Manami punching Kirino was like me punching the writer(s) for this crap ending.
I agreed with you on the first part. But to tell the truth - I firmly believe that their break up didn't work, thus their current relationship is either a secret lover or siblings with 99% affection point. And even it's not the case, since when they stomp on other's feeling? At the very least, the quick and clear answer hurt less in the long run.
Reckoner
2013-08-18, 17:57
This is the part that I don't really understand, even still. What was Kyousuke supposed to do except reject the confessions from the girls he didn't love? It's not like he's planning to go "back on the market" as soon as his "fling" with Kirino is over. If the other girls don't have a chance, why lead them on? He's not going to keep them as "backup plans".
Well what's worse. Going for the reprehensible ending, or copping out of it due to pressure from your publishers? It became abundantly clear throughout this series what the author intended for his characters, so call me flabbergasted that he makes this decision. It's putting the carrot before the horse. The author lost all his integrity by caving into the pressure. Yeah you're right, given what he did here, that was the only logical choice. However, he didn't have to do what he did.
Not that this would have made the ending good mind you. But this somehow became several magnitudes more terrible IMO.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-18, 18:01
I do find it a little confusing that Kyosuke told Manami about how he loved Kirino enough that he was willing to accept all the risks that a sibling relationship would entail, only to decide (or agree to Kirino's suggestion without any resistance, rather) that due to all the risks, their relationship should be a temporary one. :confused: I'm guessing the Light Novels delve into his thought processes more.
I really enjoyed the final boss battle against Manami. One thing I always find fascinating in stories is where one character sets into action the chain of events that make up the story, and the clusterfuck of drama and strained relationships that result can basically be placed at one person's feet - in this story's case, Manami. I don't mean that in the sense of the old 'Manami is the villain of the series' rhetoric (I think she's anything but), just that she's the one who inadvertently knocked the first domino over with her gentle scolding of Kirino a few years before the story begins, ultimately creating a fairly big mess that drew in various people she didn't even know existed at the time such as Kuroneko and Ayase.
In my opinion Manami only tried to put some sense in their heads, but they had their heads already setted before the fight (the talk in the Hotel during the Christmas Eve that you only see during the wedding part). If Manami had know that from the start, the fight may not have happen.
But I enjoyed that part, the fight was a very good change of pace in the history, and in my opinion she deserved because of the reasons you stated: "she's the one who inadvertently knocked the first domino over with her gentle scolding of Kirino a few years before the story begins"
Well what's worse. Going for the reprehensible ending, or copping out of it due to pressure from your publishers? It became abundantly clear throughout this series what the author intended for her characters, so call me flabbergasted that she makes this decision. It's putting the carrot before the horse. The author lost all her integrity by caving into the pressure. Yeah you're right, given what she did here, that was the only logical choice. However, she didn't have to do what she did.
Not that this would have made the ending good mind you. But this somehow became several magnitudes more terrible IMO.
First off, the author is a he. :D
Second, I am always careful before I criticize authors being under some regulations by publishers. Do you give up on your intended ending (or don't start to write at all) - which would be also carving before the pressure. Or do you try to make it your intended story acceptable to the publisher and throw hints around as to what you really wanted to do? So in this light I think you are unfair saying he lost his integrity by making the ending unclearer through this time-limit thing. Because if he would have gone for another ending, it would be the same carving to the pressure.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-18, 18:13
Well what's worse. Going for the reprehensible ending, or copping out of it due to pressure from your publishers? It became abundantly clear throughout this series what the author intended for his characters, so call me flabbergasted that he makes this decision. It's putting the carrot before the horse. The author lost all his integrity by caving into the pressure. Yeah you're right, given what he did here, that was the only logical choice. However, he didn't have to do what he did.
Not that this would have made the ending good mind you. But this somehow became several magnitudes more terrible IMO.
No, not really. Keep in mind, this is a public product. There are certain topic that is not safe to dwell deeply into, and incest is definitely one of them. True, most people outright don't care as long as it's not related to them, but it's still not safe. And, well, how exactly could he give a realistic ending anyway?
In my opinion Manami only tried to put some sense in their heads, but they had their heads already setted before the fight (the talk in the Hotel during the Christmas Eve that you only see during the wedding part). If Manami had know that from the start, the fight may not have happen.
But I enjoyed that part, the fight was a very good change of pace in the history, and in my opinion she deserved because of the reasons you stated: "she's the one who inadvertently knocked the first domino over with her gentle scolding of Kirino a few years before the story begins"
Agreed. Not only that, she at least wanted to confess her love (but, well, considered that she had three whole year and did nothing, it's like she was asking for someone to take the guy)
If I were to summarize Kyousuke's choice, I would say that he simply chose the most important person to him, he realized that that was what he truly wanted.
He realized how important Kirino had become to him and pretty much figured out what she went through because of him. He saw how much she loved him and the impact he caused in her life, and that was most likely the final push that he need to go ahead with his choice. Sadly for anime watchers only this might not be very clear, after all these 3 episodes skipped several valuable parts, actually the whole 2nd season skipped many important scenes.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-18, 18:24
Agreed. Not only that, she at least wanted to confess her love (but, well, considered that she had three whole year and did nothing, it's like she was asking for someone to take the guy)
Yeap! She was asking for that, as she stated for 10 years had been together but never had really taken the step. Too bad, you lost for his sister!
Well what's worse. Going for the reprehensible ending, or copping out of it due to pressure from your publishers?
With the title, premise, and everything it entails, particularly in Japan where there's no small market for little sister media, it's pretty silly both to single Fushimi-sensei out for writing to a known demographic and pretending that his publishers were blind-sided by his plot direction and had to somehow "shut him down". The publishers are quite knowingly and deliberately balancing their ability to market an incest story with their desire to avoid a big scandal. I'm sure both Fushimi and the publisher were both interested in taking things just as far as they thought they could go. The last thing Fushimi or Dengeki Bunko want is to end up on some Tokyo Municipal black list.
The author lost all his integrity by caving into the pressure.
If you write a story that will not be released, or will be banned, what's the point of writing it? You write a story to share your thoughts or feelings with the world. If it's killed dead on your doorstep, then you've communicated nothing. It's not exactly a happy ending, but it's quite possibly the happiest ending two incestuous, underage lovers could ever have, at least in the short term. From what I've read in interviews with Fushimi-sensei, I think that's the whole point. They chose their love, and now they have to deal with it, and society isn't going to make it easy.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-18, 18:34
If you write a story that will not be released, or will be banned, what's the point of writing it? You write a story to share your thoughts or feelings with the world. If it's killed dead on your doorstep, then you've communicated nothing. It's not exactly a happy ending, but it's quite possibly the happiest ending two incestuous, underage lovers could ever have, at least in the short term. From what I've read in interviews with Fushimi-sensei, I think that's the whole point. They chose their love, and now they have to deal with it, and society isn't going to make it easy.
Can't agree more. That was my sensation in the ending, as I stated in my post:
"I think that this ending was the possible one, because of everything that was implied in the Manga / Anime / LN."
In that case I'm satisfied. Of course I'd preferred a better all around ending, with more details that this one, but from the writer point of view he left lot's of flags during all the Anime/LN showing that nothing will return to the way things were in the beginning of the "life consulting".
Dr. Casey
2013-08-18, 18:44
With the title, premise, and everything it entails, particularly in Japan where there's no small market for little sister media, it's pretty silly both to single Fushimi-sensei out for writing to a known demographic and pretending that his publishers were blind-sided by his plot direction and had to somehow "shut him down". The publishers are quite knowingly and deliberately balancing their ability to market an incest story with their desire to avoid a big scandal. I'm sure both Fushimi and the publisher were both interested in taking things just as far as they thought they could go. The last thing Fushimi or Dengeki Bunko want is to end up on some Tokyo Municipal black list.
I think it's a little frustrating that we live in a world where writing a story that isn't completely Puritanical can result in a huge scandal and is the sort of thing that authors feel the need to tiptoe around. It's fine to be offended by whatever offends you, since people have the right to feel however they want about whatever they want, but more people need to act like adults and accept that other people likewise have the right to express ideas that go against their sensibilities. Different people feel different ways about different things, an author shouldn't be peer pressured by mass groups of people just because he dares to condone ideas that stray outside the box of what society considers proper. But I suppose that ranting about political correctness making everyone feel as though they're walking on eggshells is another subject for another day.
(Note that I don't mean people complaining about stories that condone things like racism or bullying or purely destructive things like that - I wouldn't join in the protests myself, but I wouldn't really mind either. But when your main reason for raising a stink about something is that it's "icky," and the story isn't promoting hate but instead the 'wrong' kind of love - amongst two people that are above the age of consent by Japan's national law, at that - then that's the time one should just sit down, let the person write whatever they wish, and just ignore it if they don't like it.)
Mouretsu
2013-08-18, 18:50
I want to notate few things about Ayase now that I've read up few posts:
Remember in episodes 11 or 12 when she was leaving Kyousuke's apartment? Someone was taking secret pictures of her while she was leaving. Okay ... that never got explained and it seems like a new twist or OVA or whatever should happen to conclude that. You cannot deny that they've skipped this part and there is NO conclusion to what exactly is going to happen. Obviously we can imagine things around, but ultimately it is up to the writer/producers.
Edit - Further on, Kyousuke did visit one of her fan websites, thou' I don't recall pictures that has any major meanings to why that person took pictures of her. It was never posted on the blog, either.
Point number 2:
What were the siblings thinking in that hotel? He did confess. That was a legitimate love confession, correct? And she did respond to it. And ... then they twist things around? What's the point? Why did they go that far? To experience it to the full extend until graduation? To what I can come up with is - because of their behavior and personalities, they did go that far to become lovers and they both know they love each other. But at the same time, they knew it was bad moral so they just wanted to experience it until graduation then get back to being normal siblings and both of them were fine with that - take note - Their behaviors and personalities. This is probably what most people have missed.
I will have to go ahead and give this a 10/10 because of the last few sentences in my last spoiler. Excellent series. Twisted. Would love to see an OVA or some sort to ease up our minds.
The Collector's Edition for PS3 will come out at the end of September for those of you who don't know - standing at about 100-130 USD.
Remember in episodes 11 or 12 when she was leaving Kyousuke's apartment? Someone was taking secret pictures of her while she was leaving. Okay ... that never got explained and it seems like a new twist or OVA or whatever should happen to conclude that. You cannot deny that they've skipped this part and there is NO conclusion to what exactly is going to happen. Obviously we can imagine things around, but ultimately it is up to the writer/producers.
Edit - Further on, Kyousuke did visit one of her fan websites, thou' I don't recall pictures that has any major meanings to why that person took pictures of her. It was never posted on the blog, either.
I want to say that's a sub-plot in the light novel that just didn't make it into the anime.
Mouretsu
2013-08-18, 19:09
^ Can you correct my spoiler, please? I screwed up.
And yea, that did seem about right. Second season took a whole big turn and left us with ... unanswered questions. :/ ...
I hope they could at least close up those loose holes for once. This is one hell of a series I'd like to praise in my life time when I look back to it.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-18, 19:09
I want to say that's a sub-plot in the light novel that just didn't make it into the anime.
And I added : then what is the point of adding it in the first place? Another OVA?
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 19:11
And I added : then what is the point of adding it in the first place? Another OVA?
It may be covered in one of the audio dramas that will accompany the anime Blu-Rays/DVDs, or it may simply be an allusion to the novels so that you understand that this also happened but just couldn't be shown on-screen due to time constraints.
Kuroneko has their own manga, that covers the extra episodes in the first Season, the ones when Kirino was in the USA.
Look for Ore no Kouhai ga Konna ni Kawaii Wake ga Nai.
Thank you! I hopefully can find it on one of the scan sites. :D
Mouretsu
2013-08-18, 19:38
Does the PSP game cover those loop holes in Kirino's route? Anyone played it?
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 19:39
Does the PSP game cover those loop holes in Kirino's route? Anyone played it?
No, the PSP game does not cover to the end of the novel content, as they were written a few years ago.
Sakuratsuki
2013-08-18, 20:15
:D I have just finished the OVA's. Had something to do today so couldn't see it in the morning.
Well, firstly it is sad to see Oreimo ending. I enjoyed this story and I hope that Tsukasa will gives us another great story in the future.
I think the OVA's were really great. Although some scenes felt rushed. Like the kuroneko rejection and the wedding at the end. But I expected this because 3 episodes is not enough to cover volume 12.
I have read the novel so I am also a bit disappointed about the things they left out in this OVA's. Like the part of mikiagmi and mereru ring. Those things would have explained the ending a little bit better. However the ending scene with a smiling Kirino after kyousuke gave her a kiss on the cheek. Left me thinking like this:
It is not easy for both of them, going back to being normal siblings again despite mutually agreeing to do this. In other words the ending scenes told you the following message:
The words of Kirino and Kyousuke are clear (they want to go back being siblings again after they graduate). But their actions say something else. This is the feeling I get from the ending. And that is how life works. It is easy to say something but it is hard to put into practice.
Leaving that aside. I enjoyed this three ending episodes very much and the fight with manami was great. Respect for both of them they really have a good punch :heh:. Mike Tyson (in his old days) would be scared to fight them.
I give it a 10/10. I was a bit disappointed. But the kiss scene at the wedding deserved a 10/10. :D
disappointed that followed LN instead of VN. always expecting it to come out then after the end I was like what a crappy ending, Kyo such a baka!
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 20:23
disappointed that followed LN instead of VN.
The VNs are just spin-off games that have a whole bunch of alternate routes that branch off a much earlier point in the story. It was always impossible for them to follow those given how far the story had come since then. And besides, even then, what route would you follow anyway? They all had routes there.
this was me the whole time:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS8SYGtO8tYOxyJWmSjg78Wn6btKhWsm h6ftTwnkuPM4ZNBKJsE
Haha, that pretty much nails it for me too. I just felt confused for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. But I honestly think I would've been ok with everything that happened if it wasn't for Kyousuke's triumphant SSJ pose after his important lines...
http://i.imgur.com/piHFTHH.jpg
I know his screaming is nothing new but I just couldn't take anything seriously after seeing it 3 times, kinda killed the mood.
kniteowl
2013-08-18, 20:43
As a anime only watcher, I enjoyed the journey a lot more then the conclusion. The conclusion just didn't feel satisfactory, I don't know what was missing, maybe it was a little rushed, maybe they didn't give enough screen to how the supporting characters affected the main cast, I'm not exactly sure but overall as a series/franchise, it was a decent watch just to meet kuroneko and ayase.
DragoonKain3
2013-08-18, 21:20
I was pretty much giving a standing ovation for the duration of Manami's screentime. Everything she said rang true... getting your confession rejected because the reasoning of the guy you like is that he loves his little sister? Or about that girl who just got in high school bragging that she's going out with her big brother? Think about it in real life; hearing those kind of things truly is 'disgusting'.
Oh yeah, that gut punch was truly satisfying. Kirino pretty much parading Kyousuke as her war trophy really wasn't helping her image in that scene. Final boss indeed. :heh:
As for a lot of people saying Manami got what's coming for her, all I can say is "meh, whatever." While Manami would like nothing but to be Kyousuke's girlfriend, more important for her is for Kyousuke not to go to the 'dark side'. Her willingness to even set aside her feelings and even 'nominate' Ayase as his girlfriend just goes to show that what she did, she did because an 'anything end' is better than a 'wincest end', even if she loses in those scenarios.
If she really were as 'evil' or 'manipulative' as some people claim her to be, she could've just very well just told their father anyway about their relationship out of bitterness of being rejected. THAT would have certainly ended that relationship, but we all know that didn't happen. As I see it, Manami really only had what she thought was Kyousuke's best interest in mind , even ahead of her's, right up until the very last moment.
Yeah, THAT is exactly what osananjimi is all about. Kyousuke's loss for not seeing it, though I am glad he did do the right thing and at the very least gave Manami closure for her feelings.
Although I am thoroughly confused at the end. Their 'lover' relationship will only last till they graduate and they'll be back to becoming normal siblings like Manami was adamant for them to be? Like what, I'm confused about that... if they're going for True Incest End why didn't they go all the way? :twitch:
Everything was going fine until Kirino went full "LOL U MAD BRO? U MAD?!" on Manami, it was expecting that to happen to her someday but I never thought about Manami being the one kick her from her high cloud
Bravo
Marcus H.
2013-08-18, 21:34
Great, Kyousuke Kousaka, the heartbreaker! Bravo! An applause to this gutsy fellow!
No, screw that. You don't deserve Ruri. You broke her heart TWICE. And now I have to comfort her.
Anyway, I haven't watched everything yet (just the story in parts), so I'll get back to you shortly. But hell, this watch would be a masochistic nightmare to me.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-18, 21:37
Great, Kyousuke Kousaka, the heartbreaker! Bravo! An applause to this gutsy fellow!
No, screw that. You don't deserve Ruri. You broke her heart TWICE. And now I have to comfort her.
.
He aware of it himself. That's why he decided to break up with her. And he only does that once. The first was Ruri dumped him.
Although I am thoroughly confused at the end. Their 'lover' relationship will only last till they graduate and they'll be back to becoming normal siblings like Manami was adamant for them to be? Like what, I'm confused about that... if they're going for True Incest End why didn't they go all the way? :twitch:
I think there's an important part of the story in episode 15 that folks are missing. In Kirino's recordings, she says "These feelings I have are who I am. If I ever stop feeling this way, I'll stop being me. If I ever forget these feelings.....well, I couldn't ever do that, right? If I do, listen and remember"
The whole "limited time lovers" thing may have been Kirino's idea, but she knows her feelings will never change. Kirino is trying to be a realist and come up with a workable solution, but I don't think either will escape the way they feel for one another, which is why Kyosuke kisses her at the end and she's happy. In the end, they both love each other and know they love each other more than anyone else, and they really aren't sure what to do with that. Where do they go from there? Who knows, but Kyosuke told Manami if it comes to it, he'll just have to try to be like those cool guys from Eroge and make it happen! :D
The "curse" Ruri pronounces in episode 14 sound very much like the standard lines of some of the villains in the Wedding Peach anime.
K9 William
2013-08-18, 22:02
Normaly i dont go on forums or read other peoples opinions on much (last thing was 5cm per second) but with this i had to, i liked the show alltogether and just want to say a few key things, i was a Kuroneko from when they first met her, and i was so happy when her and Kyosuke started going out, and upset when they broke up, but the scene where Kyosuke rejects her hurt me at first, but the fact he loved Kirino more madeit a little more bearable, he cant date while in love with someone else.
One of my favourite scenes was when Kyosuke proposed to Kirino then she said yes while crying so happily, now that was emotional, but when she told Kyosuke about the relationship to be temporary, why did he not react and why would he agree?
As for the other girls, in my view Ayase resolved her story, the one dressing as Mereru was too sudden, and poor Manami, in games i almost always go the childhood friend route (ive never played an imouto story) she looks quite hurt.
And finaly the wedding being the end hurt too much, i normaly like to think my own stories or leave with my own impressions at the end but this upset me, even if they were blood related i want them to stay together, i was 50/50 for Kirino at the start but i really liked her toward the end.
Sorry for any spelling mistakes, im posting from my iphone at tafe.
NoemiChan
2013-08-18, 22:17
I'll be waiting for the Afterstory.
Yeah, I want to see them having Aka-chan... For now, lets enjoy the doujinshis flooding the net after this.....:D
risingstar3110
2013-08-18, 22:22
Only watched ep 14 so far, but damn these silly siblings really were embarrassing, screaming on the street proposing to each other like that. Makes me feel embarrassed as well.... :D
But that "yes" from Kirino was godly HNNGGG. Bloody hell, I kept replaying it so much, that maybe i should just loop it and play in front of my screen for an hour or so.
zero7090
2013-08-18, 22:29
b)Was mostly thinking of people who value their children more than their significant other thus making them their #1 in their hearts. If a father loves his children more than his significant other, should his significant other feel insulted that he loves someone else more than the significant other? if the love was sexually, yes.
The name of the series already give away the ending route so it is expected. Can be helped though. Kyosuke was manly with his saiya confess. However making it return to the status of quo after they graduate kind of spoiling the mood.
p/s: that Kuroneko angry face turn me on, greatly.
blitz1/2
2013-08-18, 22:31
that kuroneko rejection was BRUTAL.
relentlessflame
2013-08-18, 22:31
Although I am thoroughly confused at the end. Their 'lover' relationship will only last till they graduate and they'll be back to becoming normal siblings like Manami was adamant for them to be? Like what, I'm confused about that... if they're going for True Incest End why didn't they go all the way? :twitch:
Well there are a lot of points connected to this, because the ending is deliberately cryptic:
1. Both Kirino and Kyousuke knew about the plan for their relationship the whole time, including throughout the conversation with Manami. With that being the case, why didn't they just tell her their plan and avoid the fight?
2. They decided this way at the very beginning when they first admitted their feelings for each other, but Kirino also decided to not go overseas after she graduates so she could stay with Kyousuke. So the "dating" was time limited, but it's not like she wanted to be separated from him either.
3. Kyousuke said from the get-go that he knew reality wasn't like eroge, and he didn't have the means to run off with her and abandon everything for her sake, which is what prompted her to have the idea and him to agree to go with it.
4. In the epilogue, he uses his wish to give her a kiss, which prompts her to act angry and say it's not fine for them as siblings, and call for more private life counselling when they get home. Meanwhile, out of Kyousuke's field of vision, we see her with a beaming smile as she runs off -- so it's not like either of their feelings for each other have really changed. He also comments in the closing narration that their love story was started by their life counselling in the first place.
So in the end, the more important decision Kirino and Kyousuke made about their relationship was to stay together from now on as the number one in their respective lives. But, in order to deal with their passion a bit, they also decide to act as a couple for three months, and then cut it back to keep up appearances going forward. Either way, they stay together and as close as always, and don't have to deal with the stress of the social stigmas and fear of being caught... but just ostensibly no more physical intimacy that crosses "the line"... wherever "the line" is. And now they're going to need more life counselling to figure that out. So the exact form the relationship will take in the future isn't clear yet, but their feelings haven't changed.
The reason it's written this way, per the author, is that the novel imprint doesn't allow explicit forbidden relationship endings, but he wanted to set Kirino down the best path he could. The result is this tiny bit of a puzzle that implies the future of their relationship without spelling it out. The novel offers additional hints behind the anime to further support this.
The whole "limited time lovers" thing may have been Kirino's idea, but she knows her feelings will never change. Kirino is trying to be a realist and come up with a workable solution, but I don't think either will escape the way they feel for one another, which is why Kyosuke kisses her at the end and she's happy. In the end, they both love each other and know they love each other more than anyone else, and they really aren't sure what to do with that. Where do they go from there? Who knows, but Kyosuke told Manami if it comes to it, he'll just have to try to be like those cool guys from Eroge and make it happen! :D
I completely agree with this. The feeling I got after finishing the novel is that they really didn't give up their love. The few months they dated were more like testing waters and see how it felt. One thing I noticed is that Kyousuke's reaction after hearing Kirino's idea was kinda fast. Even though it appears that he understood it quickly, his monologues in the novels let us see what was going through his mind and how seriously he was thinking of the whole situation.
I don't know if I should watch it. Season 2 was okay, and it had its moments. Season 1 was wicked awesome and that's what made like this show along with the OVAs. I should just stop here and not let myself see another show ruined.
K9 William
2013-08-19, 00:06
Normaly i dont go on forums or read other peoples opinions on much (last thing was 5cm per second) but with this i had to, i liked the show alltogether and just want to say a few key things, i was a Kuroneko from when they first met her, and i was so happy when her and Kyosuke started going out, and upset when they broke up, but the scene where Kyosuke rejects her hurt me at first, but the fact he loved Kirino more madeit a little more bearable, he cant date while in love with someone else.
One of my favourite scenes was when Kyosuke proposed to Kirino then she said yes while crying so happily, now that was emotional, but when she told Kyosuke about the relationship to be temporary, why did he not react and why would he agree?
As for the other girls, in my view Ayase resolved her story, the one dressing as Mereru was too sudden, and poor Manami, in games i almost always go the childhood friend route (ive never played an imouto story) she looks quite hurt.
And finaly the wedding being the end hurt too much, i normaly like to think my own stories or leave with my own impressions at the end but this upset me, even if they were blood related i want them to stay together, i was 50/50 for Kirino at the start but i really liked her toward the end.
Sorry for any spelling mistakes, im posting from my iphone at tafe.
Also i loved the scene with Kuroneko crying now that was truly emotional, i see where Kyousuke is coming from more now with Kirino, but Kuroneko seemed truly heart broken, it got to me, i wish i could comfort her :(
NoemiChan
2013-08-19, 00:12
No, screw that. You don't deserve Ruri. You broke her heart TWICE. And now I have to comfort her.
Also i loved the scene with Kuroneko crying now that was truly emotional, i see where Kyousuke is coming from more now with Kirino, but Kuroneko seemed truly heart broken, it got to me, i wish i could comfort her :(
Looks like trouble....
That "they're all too good for me" part couldn't be farther from the truth. Poor Kuroneko, a much better choice in every single way. :T_T:
You know, I kind of laughed when Manami got so upset because of Kirino getting in her way. She lost to 'everyone'. Did she miss the part where Kuroneko and Kyousuke stopped dating only because of Kirino? If she hadn't interfered we would've seen the 'true end' with Kuroneko and Kyousuke getting married (it's 'true' in my heart :().
At any rate, Oreimo did have a lot of great moments, but here towards the end with Kirino getting more and more involved it was weighing on me heavily. I'm glad it's over. Admittedly the Kuroneko and Saori moments were good enough to make this series worth having watched.
Finished watching. Two parts confused me though:
1. Why did Kyousuke break up with everyone when he knew he and Kirino would go back to being normal siblings?
2. I never really got the feeling he really had feelings for Kirino, so his confession seemed a bit random to me.
Otherwise I loved it. Was a little rushed, and could have switched Kanako with Ayase to be better. The show kind of touches on the subject for those who do have incestuous feelings, which I like that it did. Also, the life of an otaku was great. The kiss on the cheek was the cutest moment though.
They will never go back to being "normal" siblings after openly confessing to eachother. I mean Kirino was in love with Kyosuke since she was a little girl and most likely even during their cold war. They won't date other people and will continue to cling to eachother while continuing their relationship in secret this time. Then when both of them are of age, they probably will give everyone that won't support their relationship the bird and date openly once more. The author left the ending open to your own personal interpretation, and that is my interpetation :P. That or he was too worried about the negative flak he would receive by making it an open incest ending. As a reader of the LN I do agree that the episodes were way too rushed 7/10.
Two things in anime really squick me.
Incest is one. Just.......SQUIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!
That being said, I found this series to be incredibly enjoyable.
^lolwhut
:heh:
Kuroneko's rejection was REALLY heartbreaking. :( That sorrow, angry wailing of hers was surreal.
I knew Manami and Kirino were going to fight.
I HAD NO IDEA IT'D BE A BRUTAL, HAIR-PULLING, FACE-PUNCHING FIST FIGHT :twitch:
Holy shit. :heh: I'm sad I missed watching most of this with the Otakon crowd; that must have been crazy. :heh:
My only complaint is I wish 90% of the girls hadn't confessed to Kyousuke. Especially Kanako...that was totally WTF. I was thinking "If Saori goes next, I'm seriously going to lose it." :rolleyes: Actually I'd far prefer a KyouxSaori ship tease way over the Kanako one. I'm not against Kyousuke's decision to reject them all (yeah, for the love of God, DON'T agree to date someone if you love someone else!)
.........but why did it have to be FOUR girls!?
That just bugged me. XD I know it was to empathize how much he loved Kirino...but I'd have preferred it done in other ways. There are other things that provide the opportunity of something good at the cost of a loved one........besides another love interest, you know?
Yo if I was watching this at Otakon, I'd be straight up cheering for that fight. Moment of the series right there for me :heh:
My only complaint is I wish 90% of the girls hadn't confessed to Kyousuke. Especially Kanako...that was totally WTF. I was thinking "If Saori goes next, I'm seriously going to lose it." :rolleyes: Actually I'd far prefer a KyouxSaori ship tease way over the Kanako one. I'm not against Kyousuke's decision to reject them all (yeah, for the love of God, DON'T agree to date someone if you love someone else!)
.........but why did it have to be FOUR girls!?
That just bugged me. XD
It was clear that they were tying up all those loose ends. I wouldn't be surprised if those confessions happened much earlier than shown. I was glad that Saori didn't really get a straight-up confession as much as a blatant show of interest after it was already established that she couldn't do anything about it. Kanako was just pointless though, being that she barely had any interactions with him at all. Seems like she confused idolization with love.
Frankly Saori and Kyosuke would've been a fantastic thing. Although she wouldn't have been as adorable as Kuroneko. I suspect Saori would've been the one pulling the strings and making things awkward with how forward she can be. :heh: What an exciting premise. Oh well...
But yeah, dat catfight. I was just as surprised as Kyosuke was, because I expected him to slap her. :heh:
Great, Kyousuke Kousaka, the heartbreaker! Bravo! An applause to this gutsy fellow!
No, screw that. You don't deserve Ruri. You broke her heart TWICE. And now I have to comfort her.
Sometimes I have the feeling that I've been reading / watching a different story. First of all, the first time she broke HIS heart by voluntarily breaking up with him. Second, why does she "deserve" better? She chose this path despite knowing the outcome could be very unfavourable to her (remember that first ending picture in the Destiny Record? It only showed Kyousuke and Kirino, happily looking at each other. The second one showed the two of them smiling at a Kuroneko). Kuroneko was the person who was most aware of the siblings' feelings. People need to stop making her into a poor victim that she isn't. Her actions were responsible for Kirino opening her heart a little and Kyousuke realizing his feelings for Kirino. Kuroneko doesn't feel like a victim there, so why should we? It would be kind of looking down on her.
That "they're all too good for me" part couldn't be farther from the truth. Poor Kuroneko, a much better choice in every single way. :T_T:
You know, I kind of laughed when Manami got so upset because of Kirino getting in her way. She lost to 'everyone'. Did she miss the part where Kuroneko and Kyousuke stopped dating only because of Kirino? If she hadn't interfered we would've seen the 'true end' with Kuroneko and Kyousuke getting married (it's 'true' in my heart :().
Once again, Kuroneko and Kyousuke didn't stop dating because of Kirino. They stopped dating, because Kuroneko wanted the siblings to face (and resolve) their feelings. Furthermore, Kirino encouraged Kyousuke to give Kuroneko serious thoughts, when she confesses to him. Kirino did not interfere.
As for a lot of people saying Manami got what's coming for her, all I can say is "meh, whatever." While Manami would like nothing but to be Kyousuke's girlfriend, more important for her is for Kyousuke not to go to the 'dark side'. Her willingness to even set aside her feelings and even 'nominate' Ayase as his girlfriend just goes to show that what she did, she did because an 'anything end' is better than a 'wincest end', even if she loses in those scenarios.
If she really were as 'evil' or 'manipulative' as some people claim her to be, she could've just very well just told their father anyway about their relationship out of bitterness of being rejected. THAT would have certainly ended that relationship, but we all know that didn't happen. As I see it, Manami really only had what she thought was Kyousuke's best interest in mind , even ahead of her's, right up until the very last moment.
Yeah, THAT is exactly what osananjimi is all about. Kyousuke's loss for not seeing it, though I am glad he did do the right thing and at the very least gave Manami closure for her feelings.
Although I am thoroughly confused at the end. Their 'lover' relationship will only last till they graduate and they'll be back to becoming normal siblings like Manami was adamant for them to be? Like what, I'm confused about that... if they're going for True Incest End why didn't they go all the way? :twitch:
That's not truly getting to what Manami wanted. But I admit, the anime is far less clear in this regard as the novels. What Manami wanted was that Kyousuke above everything else remains this peace-loving guy he became shortly before they entered high school, who spends much time with her who she can give counsel to. She is not pushy when it comes to forcing herself onto Kyousuke as a lover, but she realizes that aside from Kirino, nobody can bring forward Kyousuke's other side.
Manami is not evil. But she is misguided, by her playing the role of the all-wise grandma, constantly interfering in the lives of others. This especially, considering she misses out on important issues, as well as failing to regard the matters from the viewpoints of other people. You say she tries to stop Kyousuke from going to the "dark side". However, it was through her actions that this "dark side" materialized as it did. By (inadvertendly) causing the rift between Kirino and Kyousuke, as well as telling Kirino she was being not normal with her brother-love, she set the stage for the development. Little girls being in love with their brothers, looking up to him and admiring him, is not that unnormal (she misses this point entirely). But by telling her off she causes the exact opposite effect. With Kirino's character, if you try to force something upon her, her resistance will stiffen considerable (here she forgot to consider Kirino's character). And due to the rift between the siblings, Kirino's yearning for her "lost" brother turned into romantic love.
At this point, I consider the Akagi-siblings as a mirror image the author created to show a "what-if" scenario. The Akagi siblings are huge brocon / siscons, but Sena states, she could not date her brother, even though she greatly admires him. That's due to them never having grown apart like the Kousaka's.
I can understand why the author had to go this way with the ending. Criticism, censorship or the publisher not allowing a clear end. I totally get that. So he gave Kirino the best possible ending and put some hints at the end to show us how their relationship will progress and in my book it's pretty clear that at home Kirino and Kyousuke do what teenagers madly in love with each other do.
Still the ending left me angry and disappointed, because of the way the other girls were treated. Over the two seasons I came to like and care for every girl in the show and seeing the hopes and feelings of everyone of them getting crushed was really painful. Especially in Kuroneko's case.
To make up for this "pain" I really wanted to see a clear and "straight in the face" ending, but I didn't get it and that's what's really hard to swallow.
Silaqui.
Lol just watched this, and now it looks like we're left with an ending which leaves every single fanbase raging. And now, let us prepare for the eternal conflict.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-19, 03:27
Lol just watched this, and now it looks like we're left with an ending which leaves every single fanbase raging. And now, let us prepare for the eternal conflict.
Not really. Kirino's shipper had already viewed it as 'siblings who share a secret relationship' :heh:
Lol just watched this, and now it looks like we're left with an ending which leaves every single fanbase raging. And now, let us prepare for the eternal conflict.
As Kyosuke said "Incest FTW". His little sister ending is just starting :p which is fairly clear (atleast in my opinion with her reaction to his kiss in the epilogue). It does suck that the other girls really never had a remote chance. But I'm sure deep down they all knew and atleast he gave them closure.
risingstar3110
2013-08-19, 05:17
Not really. Kirino's shipper had already viewed it as 'siblings who share a secret relationship' :heh:
I guess the author was successful with this ending. As he somehow get fans of any other girls believe that it's an open ending. While Kirino's shipper see it as a clear "imouto end".
grylsyjaeger
2013-08-19, 06:07
I just watched this and I knew it'd end something like this but I was secretly hoping someone else was going to win... Ayase was still my favourite. :(
As Kyosuke said "Incest FTW". His little sister ending is just starting :p which is fairly clear (atleast in my opinion with her reaction to his kiss in the epilogue). It does suck that the other girls really never had a remote chance. But I'm sure deep down they all knew and atleast he gave them closure.
Heh, yeah mate, I agree.
Densetsuhakai
2013-08-19, 06:16
Funny how much commotion these 3 episode cause. :D
I found it rather satisfying.I can't understand why so many people are unhappy with it.Maybe because the anime skipped so much content?Yeah that must be it.The whole second season felt to me like it was exclusiv for the Novel readers,so that we can have our favourite scenes animated.
Maybe that's why so many anime only viewers are so pissed. :)
I guess the author was successful with this ending. As he somehow get fans of any other girls believe that it's an open ending. While Kirino's shipper see it as a clear "imouto end".
Well, it is far less open if you read the author's comments regarding the ending and pay attention to the hints sprayed all over. But I assume without knowledge of these aspects on can say it's open, although Kyousuke is not really "on the market", as relentlessflame noted repeatedly.
anime fan99
2013-08-19, 07:20
okay this what Annoy me about most Romance anime
There is always the girl who gets the guy and there are girls that do not get the guy
i will appreciate if we got the girls that did not get the guy moved on and got Some one new to love
NoemiChan
2013-08-19, 07:24
okay this what Annoy me about most Romance anime
There is always the girl who gets the guy and there are girls that do not get the guy
i will appreciate if we got the girls that did not get the guy moved on and got Some one new to love
The thing is.... there are only few male extras here and they can't just end up with any guy.. Think of the fandom and the ship wars..
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-19, 07:30
okay this what Annoy me about most Romance anime
There is always the girl who gets the guy and there are girls that do not get the guy
i will appreciate if we got the girls that did not get the guy moved on and got Some one new to love
The girls can not move on like you said without the author introduce a new male. Proper introduction for a single character rarely short enough to make it out in a short time.
Well , that was painful to watch , Manami => Last boss was fun to watch though , when she took away her broken glasses , i thought in a second that she will transform in SS & kick more Kirino'ass :p
mironicus
2013-08-19, 09:23
Not really. Kirino's shipper had already viewed it as 'siblings who share a secret relationship' :heh:
There is nothing to discuss about, it's an clear "perfect victory" Kirino-Ending.
1) Kyosuke rejected all the other girls.
2) He confessed to Kirino.
3) They "indirectly" married. Kirino's deepest dreams and wishes became true.
4) They are staying together and hide their relationship, only their closest friends know about it.
Over and out! :D
Bakaizer
2013-08-19, 09:28
There is nothing to discuss about, it's an clear "perfect victory" Kirino-Ending.
1) Kyosuke rejected all the other girls.
2) He confessed to Kirino.
3) They "indirectly" married. Kirino's deepest dreams and wishes became true.
4) They are staying together and hide their relationship, only their closest friends know about it.
Over and out! :D
you know they did break up if i'm correct
you know they did break up if i'm correct
The question is the worth of the "break up" for their relationship. They remain together, and the look on Kirino's face after Kyousuke's kiss (and the kiss itself) says everything about their feelings. Even without considering novel content and the things the author said in interviews it is hard not to see this as a Kirino ending.
OverMaster
2013-08-19, 09:59
Most harem and romantic comedies, including this one, would benefit from having more male characters around, both for the sake of realism (really, how many young males spend most of their time surrounded by girls and only girls?) and to allow the discarded girls romantic conclusions of their own. I chalk it up to the Japanese fanbase being, overall, too immature and insecure to allow 'rivals' about the male protagonists they identify themselves with.
I wonder what will happen when/if Kirino and/or Kyosuke ever want to have children...
ExXentriK
2013-08-19, 10:31
As a Light Novel reader and Kirino shipper I really enjoyed the last volume animated. I had placed so much hopes on the key moments and I clearly wasn't disapointed. I won't start discussing the ending as I already did with some of you in the LN topic, but I'm glad that the animated ending didn't cause too much commotion among non-Kirino shippers. For me it is clearly the best ending for the best love story I've ever read/watched !
I haven't read the novels (though I am slowly turning into a LN fan :heh:) Is there anything in there that explains Kyousuke's transition from Kuro to Kirino better? I know he always had feelings for Kirino but I mean, before when Kuro dumped him, he looked like he'd just lost his soul. He was crying! It's a little hard to accept he got over her that quickly...but I figured novel content was cut.
kentasaiba
2013-08-19, 11:02
The anime staff are forcing a "back to normal" interpretation, Kashiwada is saying that the KISS HAS to be on the cheek.
While the LN author is complaining how it was handled and that it was supposed to be a kiss on the lips. Whether the author's intention was expressed to the anime staff beforehand is unclear
Die anime-directors....
Wilshere
2013-08-19, 11:08
The anime staff are forcing a "back to normal" interpretation, Kashiwada is saying that the KISS HAS to be on the cheek.
While the LN author is complaining how it was handled and that it was supposed to be a kiss on the lips. Whether the author's intention was expressed to the anime staff beforehand is unclear
Die anime-directors....
Actually, it was good that he wrote the ending he wanted although he was restricted by not expressing it the way he wanted. The ending we got was a miracle by all means. Its frustrating that the anime director forced it to be on the cheek.
The anime staff are forcing a "back to normal" interpretation, Kashiwada is saying that the KISS HAS to be on the cheek.
While the LN author is complaining how it was handled and that it was supposed to be a kiss on the lips. Whether the author's intention was expressed to the anime staff beforehand is unclear
Die anime-directors....
I don't know about that "back to normal". Even though it's on the cheek, a kiss is a kiss and Kirino looked way to happy about it for it to being normal. :heh:
It's a little hard to accept he got over her that quickly...
Nearly four months have passed since the break-up with Kuroneko, four months in which much has happened. So it is not exactly that quickly.
Robotech Master
2013-08-19, 11:24
Kanako was just pointless though, being that she barely had any interactions with him at all. Seems like she confused idolization with love.
:
Let's cut Kanako some slack in this regard here: though she used words like "I love you," her stage confession amounted to asking him out on a date. You don't need tons of interaction or love to ask someone to date you, just interest. The dates then create those interactions and love might blossom from there; I don't see anything wrong with her thought process, other than that she chose to make it a public thing.
The way she moved on quickly, dissapointed but not heartbroken, just reinforces the idea that it was a "hey, I like you, want to go out" kind of deal.
The anime staff are forcing a "back to normal" interpretation, Kashiwada is saying that the KISS HAS to be on the cheek.
While the LN author is complaining how it was handled and that it was supposed to be a kiss on the lips. Whether the author's intention was expressed to the anime staff beforehand is unclear
Just wishful thinking... but maybe they'll include the proper kiss scene as an extra once the Blu-Ray version is out.
Wilshere
2013-08-19, 13:19
Just wishful thinking... but maybe they'll include the proper kiss scene as an extra once the Blu-Ray version is out.
One can dream, although it would be nice. :frustrated:
playmaker2k
2013-08-19, 13:32
I found these last 3 episodes very cringeworthy.
This is my very first 1 rank in an anime. I'm usually tolerant, but not with this one.
The reason for that is I know you're not suppose to mix 2d with 3d, but when they were confessing to each other in public; I couldn't help but feel a little uncomfortable about it. It was kinda embarrassing, I was covering my face.
It was an awkward confession, but I understood what they were going for on that scene: to be fearless.
This is just me, but personally, I feel OreImo ended at episode 12.
Kyousuke had a Bad Ending with Ayase.
You even had the Kanon/Clannad style music playing in the background and Ayase in the middle of the screen with tears in her eyes and saying goodbye. The soft lighting and slow white fade to credits is just like a Visual Novel.
It was bittersweet, but beautiful.
Kyousuke really needed guidance from The God of Conquest since he clearly did not see the ending.
HandofFate
2013-08-19, 13:50
Such a cringe worthy set of episodes.
The worst parts of this wholes season was Kirino.
Every time she was gone from the scene, it was enjoyable character interactions, every time she appeared, all she does is make people suffer.
Manami had the most sense out of everyone in regards to the situation.
They need to make anime OVAs with alternate endings of Kyosuke ending up with the different girls, because they all match him much better.
I don't even get how Kyosuke fell in love with Kirino.
I understand Kirino admiring Kyosuke (when she was freaking 8 or something). No idea how she had the idea dragging on. But from the flashback, Kyosuke was just a regular brother. But then when Kirino started acting super cold to him, he just wanted a normal sibling relationship back.
But Kirino ended up corrupting him and tricked him into incest.
Such a cringe worthy set of episodes.
The worst parts of this wholes season was Kirino.
Every time she was gone from the scene, it was enjoyable character interactions, every time she appeared, all she does is make people suffer.
Manami had the most sense out of everyone in regards to the situation.
They need to make anime OVAs with alternate endings of Kyosuke ending up with the different girls, because they all match him much better.
Yup they really to make alternate endings. So much cringe from watching that I had to fast forward... really feel very sorry for kuroneko even though I dont ship her...
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 13:55
I haven't read the novels (though I am slowly turning into a LN fan :heh:) Is there anything in there that explains Kyousuke's transition from Kuro to Kirino better? I know he always had feelings for Kirino but I mean, before when Kuro dumped him, he looked like he'd just lost his soul. He was crying! It's a little hard to accept he got over her that quickly...but I figured novel content was cut.
I think the missing transition pieces were actually back in the Episode 12 territory. People look back on Episode 12 and think that it was mostly about Ayase and her being rejected. But what was more telling was what Kyousuke's mind was focused on the whole time he was there, even though Ayase was doting on him. His focus was completely on Kirino and on being reunited with her. She was his motivation for doing well on that test, and he wasn't even really thinking of Kuroneko other than when she came to visit. The anime didn't show his reaction when he finally got home and saw Kirino (who, in the novel, had gotten a new hairstyle to mark the occasion). You may also recall Kuroneko's comment about Kirino's feelings in Episode 11.
So basically it was during that time frame that he realized his feelings. But, I should also say that the novels were written -- like the anime -- to not totally give away what was going to happen in the final volume and keep the suspense up. So even with the transition pieces that were in place, it still wasn't super-obvious.
Densetsuhakai
2013-08-19, 14:00
Such a cringe worthy set of episodes.
The worst parts of this wholes season was Kirino.
Every time she was gone from the scene, it was enjoyable character interactions, every time she appeared, all she does is make people suffer.
Manami had the most sense out of everyone in regards to the situation.
They need to make anime OVAs with alternate endings of Kyosuke ending up with the different girls, because they all match him much better.
I don't even get how Kyosuke fell in love with Kirino.
I understand Kirino admiring Kyosuke (when she was freaking 8 or something). No idea how she had the idea dragging on. But from the flashback, Kyosuke was just a regular brother. But then when Kirino started acting super cold to him, he just wanted a normal sibling relationship back.
But Kirino ended up corrupting him and tricked him into incest.
Well, that's very unlikely going to happen.They would have to need to change much more than the ending for alternativ endings because it's clearly going the Kirino route for the last quarter of the season.Aside from the fact that the original author wouldn't like and support that.
Every time she was gone from the scene, it was enjoyable character interactions, every time she appeared, all she does is make people suffer.
Ah really. Yeah, Ayase really suffered when Kirino offered to guide her on the job when they first met. Kuroneko really suffered, when Kirino told Kyousuke if some girl confesses to him in the future, he should give it serious thought, because she really loves him. Kirino really made Kyousuke suffer when she comforted him, when he was sad after the break-up with Kuroneko. She really made Saori suffer, when she came up with the idea to throw a surprise party for her.
Wilshere
2013-08-19, 14:04
Such a cringe worthy set of episodes.
The worst parts of this wholes season was Kirino.
Every time she was gone from the scene, it was enjoyable character interactions, every time she appeared, all she does is make people suffer.
Manami had the most sense out of everyone in regards to the situation.
They need to make anime OVAs with alternate endings of Kyosuke ending up with the different girls, because they all match him much better.
I don't even get how Kyosuke fell in love with Kirino.
I understand Kirino admiring Kyosuke (when she was freaking 8 or something). No idea how she had the idea dragging on. But from the flashback, Kyosuke was just a regular brother. But then when Kirino started acting super cold to him, he just wanted a normal sibling relationship back.
But Kirino ended up corrupting him and tricked him into incest.
I can see from where you are coming, but really, I want a valid reason of this hate that she gets. The anime might not have clearly showed how he fell for her, but hints were all over the place, biggest evidence there is when she brought a fake ''bf' and when he chose her over Ruri even though she wanted him back with her. And this claim of every time Kirino shows up, she makes you suffer? You can hate all you want, but the fact is the ending won't change and there is nothing that can be done about it. Sick and tired of these reactions. '
But Kirino ended up corrupting him and tricked him into incest.
And that is why she told him to give Kuroneko serious thought and told him to leave the issue of finding Kuroneko to her, even if it meant them getting back together.
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 14:18
Let me just remind everyone, despite having deeply emotional reactions to these last few episodes, to try to avoid needless hyperbole and attacks. And I'd also ask people to avoid being baited and replying to said hyperbole.
Just finished watching episode 16. So before I post my final thoughts, I'd like to first pose a question to see what the general consensus is among the fandom.
When Kirino said:
The two of us will be lovers for a limited time. We'll enjoy ourselves to the fullest.
Does that mean that they...ya know....? :D
ANYWAYS, I can understand why so many had problems with the ending. And I can certainly see why many of you think that the way it ended only made a bad ending even worse since it does seem like a major cop-out on the surface. With that said, I personally didn't think the ending was as much of a cop out as I was expecting it to be. That's because there were a few subtle hints that made it pretty clear (to me anyways) that despite their promise to end things, there's a strong possibility that it would be easier said than done. And honestly, I'd imagine that if two people did have a relationship like that, and were actually able to enjoy each other in a very intimate matter, it wouldn't be something you could both agree to just end when you want on a given date. Especially if it doesn't involve one of the two partners moving far away. I believe that's the kind of thing that's implied by Kyosuke's actions regarding a certain request at the end there. To even think that they could simply end things just because its the right time, just goes to show that these two still lack a sense of maturity and experience about how things really work (as far as being truly in love goes).
To make a long story short, do I think their time as "lovers" is definitely over for good? Definitely not. However, that's not to say it won't eventually end for real in the future. I don't know how it'll truly end or if it will end at all to be honest. But that's why I felt it had a more open ending than I was anticipating.
Now for my closing thoughts.
As an only child, the prospect of incest never bothered me or grossed me out to the same degree as it does for most other people. So seeing a conclusion to an anime where the main pairing turns out to be the brother and the sister, was never something that would automatically make a terrible ending for me. Come to think of it, mostly every other time I have seen it play out like that (which isn't much), I never had a problem with it until now. And that's because in the end, I found EVERY other potential female prospect in this show to be more likable than Kirino. So when the ending went the way of the incest route, I felt like I'd have preferred it if Kyosuke ended up with anyone but Kirino. Even Kanako would've been awesome!
Ultimately, I'd like to imagine that much later on, Kyosuke and Ruri will eventually find their way back to eachother through the continuing friendship between Kirino, Ruri, and Saori. Hey, it could happen!
kentasaiba
2013-08-19, 14:56
Kyousuke: Well thats it! We aren't lovers anymore.
Kirino: Yeah, but...
Kyousuke: But what?
Kirino: U know... you forgot the condom
Kyousuke: °________°
Does that mean that they...ya know....? :D
I don't think they...did it if that's what you're implying...:p
Kirino wasn't able to play the sex scene in her game at the hotel....so it's not likely she was ready for the real thing with her brother. XD; During the wedding ceremony, the two still acted quite a bit like virgins...and that kiss looked like it was their very first one as well.
I don't think they...did it if that's what you're implying...:p
Kirino wasn't able to play the sex scene in her game at the hotel....so it's not likely she was ready for the real thing with her brother. XD; During the wedding ceremony, the two still acted quite a bit like virgins...and that kiss looked like it was their very first one as well. heh. You got a point. Then again, part of me feels like, whats the point of being "lovers" if you're not gonna do things most "lovers" tend to do. :heh:
Like, if that kiss during the wedding was really their first and last real kiss, then Kyosuke should've totally hooked up with one of the other females and had Kirino on the side (since they never did anything as lovers anyways).
Maverick Entity
2013-08-19, 15:14
First off, I must make note that I have not read all the LN's (I feel like I read aspects of a few volumes, but that was long ago). I must also note that Kuroneko is indeed still my favorite (so much so that currently I want to tie Kyosuke to a ROKS-1 flamethrower mine).
relentlessflame, you so far have provided the most clear understanding of these last few episodes, perhaps even more clear than I can even fathom as a commentator. I will attempt to make my own points if possible though.
I'll admit, I had the reaction of "what the hell are you doing Kyosuke!" throughout each episode, but I suppose that is the reaction of some other viewers the first time viewing. Having not known prior that Kyosuke's actions were all the result of fulfilling Kirino's lifelong wish (marrying her brother/admitting her true love for him) that she finally told him (how I see the "plan" whispered in his ear by her at Christmas), I was indeed thinking "what was the point of all this?"
What I wish to put forth is what I found most odd, which was the "plan". As we have seen since season 1, Kyosuke actions are based for the most part on fulfilling others' wishes/dreams, especially Kirino's. Usually he reveals his reasoning to someone opposite of the target though (if I recall correctly). This one final fulfillment lacks this (at least from the anime prospective), so can one conclude from this lacking of explanation that Kyosuke deemed it potentially more hazardous (as in making it impossible) for fulfilling Kirino's wish to reveal that their semi-public actions were going to "end" upon graduation? Furthermore, did he simply keep silent because deep down it was a wish he saw as his own as well?
Like many other series, the author leaves us to ponder what happens next. Whether it is a secret love that remains constant or if Kyosuke ends up managing to mend his relationship with Kirino with that of another is only what we, who partake in the author's words, the seiyuu's emotional speech, and the production staff's efforts, can speculate.
In the end though, is that not the goal of those who spend their lives crafting these works? I honestly cannot give a ranking, for that thought always remains on my mind when watching or reading a work.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-19, 15:18
And that is why she told him to give Kuroneko serious thought and told him to leave the issue of finding Kuroneko to her, even if it meant them getting back together.
"The best proof of love you can give to the one you love is being happy if the one you love are happy, even if it was with other person that you!"
That was what Kirino wanted, that was why she helped is brother and do not opposed when Ruri asked her that will confess to his brother, even if it was the thing that she least wanted.
For the ones that keeps saying that the ending is very open, I had also had remembered something that I didn't read here. Remember that everyone still think that Kirino and Kyousuke are dating, only them know that after the "Fake" Marriage (it was a marriage for them, not for the society) they keep is life as normal siblings, but everyone still thinks that they are getting along. No one knows all the truth.
They are not only normal siblings after the confession of Kyousuke and the "Yes" from Kirino. Everyone support them, or at least do not wanted to oppose to (Forget Manami and probably Ayase since both of them know a lot. Remember when Ayase had called for Kyousuke for the second time in his room, talking about he having a girlfriend and then Manami later called saying that he had finished the relation with Ruri).
The Otaku friends, Sena and who knows more knows and support them, or at least it looked like in the Anime (I didn't had read this part in the LN to know the rest that wasn't animated).
The reply from Kirino in is normal "Tsundere" style (hard outside, soft inside) after the kiss in his cheek from is brother represents everything (She was angry with them, saying that when arriving home they will have another "Life Consulting" and after that she was running happy. Kyousuke stated that his love had started with a "Life Consulting"...) so the creator had left plenty of hints for the rest of us to think.
I'm sorry if I sound confusing, but English is not my first language. I can understand if very well, but sometimes I can't express my thoughts in the way I wanted.
Don´t think much of this hate towards the ending of the anime is because the lack of context?
I mean, we can just look at how vol.11 was adapted to only 1 anime chapter, that volume give us, LN-readers, much insight on what relations and feelings between Kyou, Manami and Kirino were before cold war, insight anime only viewers lack.
Such a cringe worthy set of episodes.
Manami had the most sense out of everyone in regards to the situation.
Sure. Because you can just tell people to stop loving the people they do, and they can simply rationalize themselves out of feeling that way.
Next you'll tell me gay people should just decide to stop being gay. :twitch:
I don't even get how Kyosuke fell in love with Kirino.
She's beautiful, intelligent, athletic, she's a good friend and she's got his back 100% when it counts. What's not to like?
I understand Kirino admiring Kyosuke (when she was freaking 8 or something). No idea how she had the idea dragging on.
Because Manami turned it into a complex and shattered her Westermark effect.
The moral of the story here, folks, is that over-reactive moralizing generates greater perversion than just leaving well enough alone. Like how censored genitals in Japanese pornography is responsible for the popularization of tentacle hentai.
Does that mean that they...ya know....? :D
I seem to recall some dialog from the morning after in the light novel played coyly with the idea, essentially allowing the reader to decide whether it happened or not.
Triple_R
2013-08-19, 16:04
Sure. Because you can just tell people to stop loving the people they do, and they can simply rationalize themselves out of feeling that way.
Next you'll tell me gay people should just decide to stop being gay. :twitch:
I haven't been watching Ore no Imouto since the first season, but I have to say, this is a horrible analogy.
There are various scientific studies that strongly suggest that the homosexual orientation is at least somewhat genetic in nature. In other words, that gay people have a genetic predisposition to being gay.
But nobody has a genetic predisposition limiting him or her to feeling romantic/sexual attraction for just one other person in the entire world. That sort of thinking appeals to the romantic in some of us, but it's not rooted in physical reality like sexual orientation is.
And it's partly for this reason that people can legitimately be both for gay rights, and against incest.
Kinda disappointed with the ending. And this is coming from a mostly Kirino shipper. It'd have been fine if I could forget the last 5 minutes ever took place. As it is, no amount of retrospective justification, implication, and whatnot from what I've already read in the thread is enough to shake of the feeling that this was basically a cop-out, a desperate final act of conformity. Sure, if you're going to do that in the end, do that from the get go and pick someone else or something. If you're set on it, like most of the last episodes outright say, just go ahead with that. Making a one-eighty turn in the last minute is, for a lack of a better word, pathetic.
As for the whole incest thing, I'm with VORTIA on this one (mainly cause it's the more recent post I read, can't quote everyone else :P)
Plus, in the end, who cares? It's their choice. Sure, nature is rather unforgiving when it comes to blood sibling offspring, that's true. That's why it's taboo in the first place. Nature doesn't particularly like 100% homosexuals either, seeing as there's no natural way for their DNA to reproduce (obviously). But again, in the end, who cares? People can and should be able to decide for themselves.
Haiprbim
2013-08-19, 16:06
Okay, here goes.
I really don't know how to explain my feelings better than sharing a review I wrote.
Here it goes, a copy/paste of my review:
The last three episodes that finish up the series, the grand finale.
The heat is rising, everything is put on the edge and stake for one purpose, and one purpose alone. The tension is higher and higher, and just when everything is about to finish... the focus is lost. The main thing that the fight was on about is broken, and the fighters for it seem to be okay with it.
That is basically how it goes, and that is the reason why it is possible to see so much (reasonable) hate on these final three specials that end the story of OreImo.
These three specials were meant to bring us a rounded up ending to the funny things we have seen in the first season with its specials, as well as the second season. The first two specials cover the part of the grand finale nicely, showing many feelings going down and all of them being handled with only one focus in mind, that they are not the right ones. Even in the third special, it seems like one more heavy feeling is out on stake but still endured for the sake of that one main point.
In the end, although the struggle was so big and the feelings so harsh to achieve that one goal, that one goal is broken for the sake of being normal and accepted, or so it would seem. What angers me is that there were so many rough and harsh feelings going down, but in the end it would seem like they were a total waste.
However, here is the catch. Although it might be true that the way everything was risked and staked for the sake of one thing which then didn't take a long-term action, you have to consider this to be a light romantic comedy. In my humble opinion, the show had to end the way it did, looking at how the story developed as a whole. However, one thing that I disagree with 100% is that if this show ended like that, the feelings shouldn't have been hurt like that.
The show had two options. Not hurting the feelings and ending the way it did, or hurting the feelings and putting everything on the stake in order to end dramatically. What happened is the sum of the two, which lead to a chaos and anger outbursts of the viewers.
If you have watched everything that OreImo has to offer until now, I cannot say you shouldn't watch this. Even if the ending is so bad, seeing it as a whole set is for the best. The grand finale is not grand at all, but the way to it is. In my opinion, the three final episodes were a disappointment, but I more or less figured it would end the way it did, so I'm not that depressed over it. All in all, it is not a very good ending, but it is not that much of a disaster, either.
That's pretty much that.
My internet friend/buddy has also created a video about the OreImo's "true" ending that is written in the Light Novel, so, if you have seen the three episodes, make sure to check it out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FivK2MsNQw
I haven't been watching Ore no Imouto since the first season, but I have to say, this is a horrible analogy.
Why do people say incest is wrong? Religion, social stigma, and the inability to reproduce.
Why do people say homosexuality is wrong? Religion, social stigma, and the inability to reproduce.
My point is, love isn't a rational thing. You can't rationalize yourself out of how you feel, and "society doesn't approve" isn't an acceptable reason for why an individual should have to suppress or abandon those feelings.
Triple_R
2013-08-19, 16:16
Plus, in the end, who cares? It's their choice. Sure, nature is rather unforgiving when it comes to blood sibling offspring, that's true. That's why it's taboo in the first place. Nature doesn't particularly like 100% homosexuals either, seeing as there's no natural way for their DNA to reproduce (obviously). But again, in the end, who cares? People can and should be able to decide for themselves.
Telling a person to go against their sexual orientation is basically telling them to go against their genes.
However, telling someone that they shouldn't enter into an incestuous relationship is more like telling someone that a particular romantic option isn't a good one for them. There's all sorts of objective reasons to be against a friend or loved one getting into an incestuous relationship (you yourself listed one of them).
What if you and your sibling break up? That's going to be a lot of fun at family get-togethers...
Kinda disappointed with the ending. And this is coming from a mostly Kirino shipper. It'd have been fine if I could forget the last 5 minutes ever took place. As it is, no amount of retrospective justification, implication, and whatnot from what I've already read in the thread is enough to shake of the feeling that this was basically a cop-out, a desperate final act of conformity. Sure, if you're going to do that in the end, do that from the get go and pick someone else or something. If you're set on it, like most of the last episodes outright say, just go ahead with that. Making a one-eighty turn in the last minute is, for a lack of a better word, pathetic.
Well, I think it's always easy to say the author should or shouldn't have done so. But when you are in his position it is much harder to tell. What do you do? Do you go an entirely different direction than the one you really want. Or do you still go your original way, even though you have to do some bending to get it approved by the publisher, with the addition of hint-spraying as to where you are seeing your story going? To just say "pathetic" is in my opinion unfair to the position the author's in. He pretty much did the maximum he could, although the anime makes it far less clear (which could be perhaps due to the anime staff's decision).
Triple_R
2013-08-19, 16:30
Why do people say incest is wrong? Religion, social stigma, and the inability to reproduce.
Why do people say homosexuality is wrong? Religion, social stigma, and the inability to reproduce.
You're missing my point. Homosexuality has a justification to it that incest doesn't. It's a lot easier for Kyousuke and/or Kirino to eventually find another fish in the sea than it is for somebody to change the gender of the fish they aim for.
It's a lot more reasonable to tell someone "Maybe you should try to find a non-relative to have a sexual relationship with" than it is to say "Maybe you should change your sexual orientation".
Objecting to a particular partner is not the same as objecting to an entire orientation.
My point is, love isn't a rational thing. You can't rationalize yourself out of how you feel,
People fall in and out of romantic love all the time. Most people have to get over their love for a particular person at least once or more in life (this being due to rejection).
If you like this KyouKirino shipping, then by all means, enjoy it. But don't use false equivalencies with gay rights to try to guilt-trip other people into being more approving of incest. People have good reason for being against incest in general. It's not just social approval reasons - There's all sorts of problems that can arise, or be exacerbated, due to an incestuous relationship rather than a non-incestuous one.
For example, an incestuous couple breaking up causes problems that a non-incestuous couple breaking up doesn't cause. It would put the parents of the ex-couple in a very nasty situation.
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 16:42
But don't use false equivalencies with gay rights to try to guilt-trip other people into being more approving of incest.
I do agree that this was an unwise analogy. I think the original intention was explained (i.e. not to be opposed to a relationship between two consenting people), but it came from a poor understanding of the depth of the issues involved.
Objecting to a particular partner is not the same as objecting to an entire orientation.
I get what you are saying, but I think you are failing to understand what I was trying to communicate.
My statement wasn't trying to establish some preposterous incestuous sexual orientation. My point was that if you are at the point that you're out and out about feelings like Kyosuke's and Kirino's that society disapproves so strongly of, saying to them "Do you know people think this is gross? Maybe you should think about not doing this." is far too late and isn't making any grand revelation that will save them.
Manami wasn't telling Kyosuke and Kirino anything they didn't already know. Hell, if it wasn't something they took seriously, it wouldn't have taken them two seasons to get together. They'd been dating for three months, it was well past the point anything Manami had to say was going to have any meaningful effect on them.
Maybe taking polar sexuality out of the equation will explain what I'm trying to say better.
Let's say you have a bisexual boy who's entered into a relationship with another boy and has been with him for three months. Manami is essentially yelling "But you like girls! You're life would be so much easier if you dated them instead!"
Is she correct? Of course she is. But what she's saying is obvious to everyone. It's nothing the parties involved would not have considered, and already decided that they wanted to do what they were doing despite the challenges. It's really only so much angry and condescending noise.
Densetsuhakai
2013-08-19, 16:51
You're missing my point. Homosexuality has a justification to it that incest doesn't. It's a lot easier for Kyousuke and/or Kirino to eventually find another fish in the sea than it is for somebody to change the gender of the fish they aim for.
It's a lot more reasonable to tell someone "Maybe you should try to find a non-relative to have a sexual relationship with" than it is to say "Maybe you should change your sexual orientation".
Objecting to a particular partner is not the same as objecting to an entire orientation.
People fall in and out of romantic love all the time. Most people have to get over their love for a particular person at least once or more in life (this being due to rejection).
If you like this KyouKirino shipping, then by all means, enjoy it. But don't use false equivalencies with gay rights to try to guilt-trip other people into being more approving of incest. People have good reason for being against incest in general. It's not just social approval reasons - There's all sorts of problems that can arise, or be exacerbated, due to an incestuous relationship rather than a non-incestuous one.
For example, an incestuous couple breaking up causes problems that a non-incestuous couple breaking up doesn't cause. It would put the parents of the ex-couple in a very nasty situation.
Sorry for butting in your discussion here.But I have to say something now.Well,theoretically you are right.It's absolutely the logical and rational decision to search for another love interest rather than to get together with you little sister.It has indeed a lot of consequences and in most of the cases it doesn't really end good.
But that is only the logical and rational way of thinking.In reality it is a lot more harder and complex to find another love interest.You can believe me because I'm in a kinda similar situation.I tried to find another love interest for many years now and it never worked for me so far.My social life is a mess because of this and I'm in therapy for years now but this is another story.
My point is that some shouldn't rationalise love.It's always easier to say that it's logical than it's in reality.In fact love makes you dumb.It makes you so dumb that you will fight the society rather than "just" to search for another love interest.
Triple_R
2013-08-19, 16:52
I do agree that this was an unwise analogy. I think the original intention was explained (i.e. not to be opposed to a relationship between two consenting people), but it came from a poor understanding of the depth of the issues involved.
Well, I think that Kyousuke's parents and closest friends have a right to voice an opinion on the matter. Because they care about Kyousuke, are already heavily involved in his life, and can see the risks inherent to his choice here. Manami has the added factor of being in love with him herself, so that naturally makes it even harder for her.
But Kyousuke and Kirino's relationship is not the business of anybody else. I agree with you there.
Black Phoenix
2013-08-19, 16:58
My point is that some shouldn't rationalise love.It's always easier to say that it's logical than it's in reality.In fact love makes you dumb.It makes you so dumb that you will fight the society rather than "just" to search for another love interest.
In my opinion, during the current setting in my life (the end of a relation of 10 years, but that is another story...) love defies any logic. Why waste 10 years with a life practically constructed and well manned for another start from scratch?
In theory Love is easy to understand and everyone can give a word about it related to their life experience. But in reality it defies everything that you take as given, any logic and no one have a manual for it. That's how human relations work.
Triple_R
2013-08-19, 17:01
Sorry for butting in your discussion here.But I have to say something now.Well,theoretically you are right.It's absolutely the logical and rational decision to search for another love interest rather than to get together with you little sister.It has indeed a lot of consequences and in most of the cases it doesn't really end good.
But that is only the logical and rational way of thinking.In reality it is a lot more harder and complex to find another love interest.You can believe me because I'm in a kinda similar situation.I tried to find another love interest for many years now and it never worked for me so far.My social life is a mess because of this and I'm in therapy for years now but this is another story.
My point is that some shouldn't rationalise love.It's always easier to say that it's logical than it's in reality.In fact love makes you dumb.It makes you so dumb that you will fight the society rather than "just" to search for another love interest.
Well, I'm sorry about what you've had to go through here.
I don't doubt there are some situations where two people are so deeply in love with one another, that no other alternative will do. Maybe that has become the case with KyousukeKirino. But I can understand why some characters like Manami might feel differently.
Kirino is, after all, a tsundere "mask" character, so Manami might not get the depth of feeling that's there.
One thing I'll say personally - I have two younger sisters, they're a lot alike Kirino and Kuroneko respectively, so that makes certain things a bit squicky for me, lol. :heh:
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 17:06
Is she correct? Of course she is. But what she's saying is obvious to everyone. It's nothing the parties involved would not have considered, and already decided that they wanted to do what they were doing despite the challenges. It's really only so much angry and condescending noise.
This is why I keep coming back to the point that they both completely let her maintain her misunderstanding throughout the whole conversation, even though they already had clearly already thought it through and had a plan. It would have been so much easier to just say: "hey, actually Manami, we're not idiots. We know that this can't work out, and that's why we're just dating for a few months to get it out of our system and then we'll be normal siblings again". If they had actually thought of their relationship as being over at that point, they could have done that and saved infinite grief. To me, the fact that he didn't take this sort of "easy way out", already knowing what he had agreed-to, suggests his intentions beyond the end.
But I can understand why some characters like Manami might feel differently.
Kirino is, after all, a tsundere "mask" character, so Manami might not get the depth of feeling that's there.
Well, based on Manami's comments (and her intervention in the past), I'm inclined to think that she did understand the depth of at least Kirino's feelings. What she couldn't necessarily see was the depth of Kyousuke's feelings/seriousness. She's really probing to see if he's doing this on a childish whim and is faking ignorance of the difficulties they'll face. But I think that's also partly why Kyousuke reacted in the way he did; to affirm that he was indeed serious, regardless of their private "agreement".
Densetsuhakai
2013-08-19, 17:15
Well, I'm sorry about what you've had to go through here.
I don't doubt there are some situations where two people are so deeply in love with one another, that no other alternative will do. Maybe that has become the case with KyousukeKirino. But I can understand why some characters like Manami might feel differently.
Kirino is, after all, a tsundere "mask" character, so Manami might not get the depth of feeling that's there.
One thing I'll say personally - I have two younger sisters, they're a lot alike Kirino and Kuroneko respectively, so that makes certain things a bit squicky for me, lol. :heh:
Yeah,that's is maybe the case.And everyone have the right to point out their opinion of this.And that's what Manami does.She pointed out that this isn't going to work out for the siblings and it is her right to do this.At least she got the guts to actually respect their decision and to don't run to their parents and destroy their current lifes.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-19, 17:44
heh. You got a point. Then again, part of me feels like, whats the point of being "lovers" if you're not gonna do things most "lovers" tend to do. :heh:
Like, if that kiss during the wedding was really their first and last real kiss, then Kyosuke should've totally hooked up with one of the other females and had Kirino on the side (since they never did anything as lovers anyways).
That stuff 'doing it now because we won't be able to later' only happen in American action movie :p. Here, despite their love, both are unable to make it to physical 'contact'.
Well, based on Manami's comments (and her intervention in the past), I'm inclined to think that she did understand the depth of at least Kirino's feelings. What she couldn't necessarily see was the depth of Kyousuke's feelings/seriousness. She's really probing to see if he's doing this on a childish whim and is faking ignorance of the difficulties they'll face. But I think that's also partly why Kyousuke reacted in the way he did; to affirm that he was indeed serious, regardless of their private "agreement".
Did she? She had decade to understood Kyousuke. Her traits helps her on the way. Yet she unable to see that deep down, he is not against it?
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 18:29
Did she? She had decade to understood Kyousuke. Her traits helps her on the way. Yet she unable to see that deep down, he is not against it?
Well, I guess maybe you could say that she hoped that she had enough pull with the object of her affection that she could "save him" from the mess he was getting himself into.
This is where the content cut from the novel hurts a fair bit, because you can't see clearly what she is trying to leverage in her discussion.
She is making an allusion to the situation that caused him to switch to his prior "normal/average" self, by reminding him of how his "antics" can cause a lot of problems. But of course in the anime, we don't know why he became "average" (only that he did), so they cut out her allusions in the later confrontation of how he was "slipping back into his old habits".
I think she realized that "old Kyousuke" would be okay with it, but she hoped that he had "grown up" as a result of her advice. But the old Kyousuke is part of who he is, and though he's aware of the harsh reality, that doesn't stop him from pursuing his true yet immoral feelings. And that's why she's "disgusted" with him.
One thing I'll say personally - I have two younger sisters, they're a lot alike Kirino and Kuroneko respectively, so that makes certain things a bit squicky for me, lol. :heh:
Yeah, if Kirino reminded me of my own little sister, I'd probably be weirded out a bit. :heh:
I've yet to see an anime imouto that reminds me of my actual little sister, though. It probably explains my positive but mostly ambivalent feelings about Miki Hoshi from IdolM@ster, though.
NoemiChan
2013-08-19, 18:57
Yeah, if Kirino reminded me of my own little sister, I'd probably be weirded out a bit. :heh:
I've yet to see an anime imouto that reminds me of my actual little sister, though. It probably explains my positive but mostly ambivalent feelings about Miki Hoshi from IdolM@ster, though.
Same goes to my now grown up niece... anime sometimes makes you think something immoral is acceptable...
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-19, 19:10
Same goes to my now grown up niece... anime sometimes makes you think something immoral is acceptable...
Guys, seriously...separate real life and fiction....
Well, it's kind of hard to sound convincing saying it. I have a friend who is also into OreImo, yet he has a little sister himself. The moment he said that nothing happen between them and he hate her, I immediately point out to him that Kyousuke said the same thing :))
NoemiChan
2013-08-19, 19:18
Guys, seriously...separate real life and fiction....
Well, it's kind of hard to sound convincing saying it. I have a friend who is also into OreImo, yet he has a little sister himself. The moment he said that nothing happen between them and he hate her, I immediately point out to him that Kyousuke said the same thing :))
He might be just telling the truth.:D
vadrigar848
2013-08-19, 19:34
I liked the ending very much in the LN but I'm kinda disappointed with the way the anime did this last few episodes, heck i think it started going downhill starting from season 2. I don't have a problem with incest (I loved Koi Kaze) but my problem is with the pacing and some scenes removed. The anime did not have the same impact the LN gave me. I was hoping that they would animate everything properly having 1 and a half months to finish three episodes. i think that they could've made it much better...but i guess having to cram that much info in three episodes is hard or nearly impossible. I still gave it 10/10
I'm posting my opinions here because half or most of the opinions here are on the positive side, unlike the other forums where people just bash you when you say something good about the ending and much greater hate when you try to defend Kyosuke choosing Kirino.
on a side note, i have a sister that is very similar to Sena, i don't feel any attraction to her, I think that shes "just there"...I even got her two BL games but then she showed them to her friends...I'm not gonna make the same mistake again
Marcus H.
2013-08-19, 20:32
I'm listening to "Nanairo Namida" by Tomato and Pine (Beelzebub ED 3) and seeing Ruri's anguish always brings tears to my eyes. And to think that I still can't bring myself to watch the last three episodes.
Hmmmm
............so does anyone think the two are going to date again after they move out of their parent's house a few years later?
.........there wouldn't be much stopping them then.....:p
OverMaster
2013-08-19, 20:49
I kinda feel bad for the parents.
My reaction to the end of this series (after seeing it animated...):
http://i.imgur.com/G5o7nTq.gif
Bad ending is bad... SIGH...
I kind of understand why so many fans in Japan were freaking pissed to the point of sending threat letters and burning all the novels...
All the build-up that happened through out the series just totally crashed.
NoemiChan
2013-08-19, 21:03
Hmmmm
............so does anyone think the two are going to date again after they move out of their parent's house a few years later?
.........there wouldn't be much stopping them then.....:p
Obviously and my eyes... I hope Kirino just told Kyousuke on the hotel:
Kirino: Hey, I suggest we should retrain ourselves for a little while longer until we graduate, then we could fool around. What do you say?
Kyousuke: Uhmm.. ok..
Kirino: Good... That's a promise?
Kyousuke: That's a promise.
Kirino: Now let's finish that eroge.
Kyousuke: Hey!
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-19, 21:22
Hmmmm
............so does anyone think the two are going to date again after they move out of their parent's house a few years later?
.........there wouldn't be much stopping them then.....:p
Why do they have to wait that long? They went to Akihabara together, goes to an offline meeting together. That already sound like a date for me :)
Why do they have to wait that long? They went to Akihabara together, goes to an offline meeting together. That already sound like a date for me :)
So they don't get caught of course.:heh:
Hmmmm
............so does anyone think the two are going to date again after they move out of their parent's house a few years later?
.........there wouldn't be much stopping them then.....:p
Can't see it any other way, myself. Word of God seems to lean that way for sure.
Bakaizer
2013-08-19, 22:10
The question is the worth of the "break up" for their relationship. They remain together, and the look on Kirino's face after Kyousuke's kiss (and the kiss itself) says everything about their feelings. Even without considering novel content and the things the author said in interviews it is hard not to see this as a Kirino ending.
so you are saying that technically they are still together despite the their "breakup"
so the question is, are they still lovers or just some kind of brother-sister relationship
so you are saying that technically they are still together despite the their "breakup"
so the question is, are they still lovers or just some kind of brother-sister relationship
Well, they are both still in love with one another, that much is pretty clear.
The question you are asking is if they act on it or not, which will be widely open to debate, but I'd argue that Kyosuke's wish (and Kirino's request for the ring in the light novels) tell me that neither is satisfied with not taking it further.
anime fan99
2013-08-19, 22:22
There is nothing to discuss about, it's an clear "perfect victory" Kirino-Ending.
1) Kyosuke rejected all the other girls.
2) He confessed to Kirino.
3) They "indirectly" married. Kirino's deepest dreams and wishes became true.
4) They are staying together and hide their relationship, only their closest friends know about it.
Over and out! :D
(in that deep voice from Mortal Kombat) Flawless Victory :eyespin:
GundamZZ
2013-08-19, 22:39
Kyousuke basically breaks up with every girl. The reason is for a mock wedding. If the online speculation is right, the producer wants to have the wishful ending. Kyousuke may end up with any girl.
Someone mentioned that novel has a story. It's when Kirino is talking to Kyousuke's future wife.
14話について
・伏見：「はい」のシーンは作中でも1番目か2番目に重要なシーンなのでダメだったら監督殺し ていた。
・三木：「監督生きてるって事は問題なかったってことですよね」
・伏見：「そうですね、完璧でした」
・ゆま：「神戸さんはどのシーンが印象に残ってました？」
・神戸：「忙しくて無我夢中で作ってました～」
15話について
・ゆま：「伏見さんは15話どこが印象的でした？」
・伏見：「加奈子の告白の後、よく京介殺されませんでしたねって中村さんから言われたのが印象 的」
・伏見：「加奈子のファンは加奈子の困るような事はしない」
・ゆま：「神戸さんはどのシーンが印象に残ってますか？」
・神戸：「桐乃と黒猫がバトルするシーンあるんですけど、これ最近流行ってる中二病のサンライズのアニメに 黒猫がハマっているっていう設定でエヘヘ」
・三木：「最後のシーンで兄妹二人が『まかせろ』っていうシーンはアニメならではのシーンでよかった。兄妹 がつながった感じがした。」
16話について
・ゆま：「伏見さんは16話どうでした？」
・伏見：「16話に関しては全体的に満足ですが2つ不満があります、公式発言じゃないですが個人的には最後 のキスは口がよかった」
・伏見：「あと、これは何度も監督に言ったんですが桐乃と麻奈実は原作どおり髪型は変えてほしかった。髪型 変えた桐乃と麻奈実が見たい人は原作買ってください。」
・ゆま：「この伏見さんの願いって誰が受け止めるんですか？」
・柏田P：「あのシーンは、普通の兄妹に戻ったっていうシーンだから頬。桐乃的にはケジメをつ けたから。」
・三木：「柏田さんって少女視点ですよね」
・柏田P：「三木さんは京介視点なんですよね」
・三木：「・・・・という感じで内部でも賛否両論でして。」
・ゆま：「いや賛否両論になってないなってない」（強引に話を切り上げる）
・ゆま「最後にみなさんから一言お願いします」
・伏見「感無量です、ありがとうございました」
・神戸「いつまでもこの作品を愛してくれたらいいと思ってます。」
・モノレール社長「これからもみなさんと俺妹を盛り上げられたらと思います。」
・三木「原作は終わったけど後すこし俺妹を盛り上げたい」
・柏田P「綺麗に原作が終わったのでよかった。」
According to the online information(memory recollection), the staffs made the comments after the premiere at Chiba city’s convention center.
The list of speakers:
Fushimi Tsukasa , author of Ore no Imouto
Miki Kazuma , editor of Ore no Imouto, To Aru Magic, Accel World, etc.
Takahashi Yuuma, animation producer of
Kanbe Hiroyuki , animation director
Kashiwada Shinichirou , producer
About Episode 14
Fushimi: Kirino’s response to the confession is one of most important scene. If it does not turn out well, decide to kill the director.
Miki: The director is still alive. It means it is fine.
Fushimi: Yes, very good.
Takahashi: What is director Kanbe’s most memorable scene?
Kanbe: I was too busy for the production.
About Episode 15
Takahashi: What is most memorable scene for Fushimi sensei?
Fushimi: After Kanako’s confession, Kyousuke’s seiyu Nakmura told me Kanako’s fan actually didn’t kill Kyousuke. However, Kanako’s fans would not do things that troubles Kanako.
Takahashi: What is director Kanbe’s most memorable scene?
Kanbe: Kirino and Kuroneko’s battle scene. It hints Kuroneko is following a recent Sunrise studio’s Chuunibyou setting.(Note: Kuroyukihime's dress)
About Episode 16
Takahashi: What is Fushimi sensei’s impression.
Fushimi: I’m very satisfied with episode 16. Still, I’m not satisfied with tow areas. It is not official response. It is my personal view. At the ending, Kyousuke and Kirino’s kiss could change to mouth to mouth. Also, I expressed it to the director many times. I wish Kirnio and Minami can change their hairstyles, as the original work. If you want to see Kirino and Minami’s new hairstyles, please buy the original work.
Takahashi: Who stopped Fushimi sensei’s wish.
Kashiwada: That scene,. They turn back to normal brother and sister, so the drawing is changed to kissing the face. It is Kirino’s baseline.
Miki: Kashiwada is using the girl’ point of view.
Kashiwada: Miki is using Kyousuke’s point of view.
Miki: It is this feeling. The internal opinion is not agreed.
Takahashi: There is no disagreement(interrupt the topic).
Takahashi: How is director Kanbe’s view on episode 15?
Kanbe: I gave my best to the argument scene between Minami and Kirino, but I put too much emphasis on the sound. The feeling is becoming as Hajime no Ippo.
Takahasi: Everyone, please say the final words.
Fushimi: I cannot say enough. Thank you very much.
Kanbe: I hope everyone will continue to love this show.
President Chiba: I hope everyone will continue to improve this show.
Miki: Even the original work is ended, I hope Oreimou can make more improvement.
Kashiwada: It’s so good that the work has the decent finish.
Well, they are both still in love with one another, that much is pretty clear.
The question you are asking is if they act on it or not, which will be widely open to debate, but I'd argue that Kyosuke's wish (and Kirino's request for the ring in the light novels) tell me that neither is satisfied with not taking it further.
It's the author's wish.
>「完全なる桐乃エンド」
Complete Kirino's end
>「最初の人生相談と同じように、兄妹は、二人だけの秘密を抱えて終わる」
as the initial life counseling, the siblings hold the secret to the end.
>「主人公二人については、今後も大変だろうけども、幸せな結末になったと思います」
both protagonists will have hardship, but I think they have the happy ending.
I wonder how many people will remember this show, since there are many magical girl anime and robot anime on the watch list. Due to the companies' join market decision, this show doesn't go all the way as Sora. It still ends in an unique style.
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 22:44
I kind of understand why so many fans in Japan were freaking pissed to the point of sending threat letters and burning all the novels...Since this gets brought up from time to time, "so many fans" is entirely subjective. Any time any that might invoke shipping gets some sort of conclusion, you will see the "burning the novels" pictures on 2ch like clockwork. It's a meme. The meme frequency is only a function of how passionate the fanbase has gotten around cheering for their heroine of choice.
For this particular story, I honestly don't think you would have seen any less "book burning" no matter what ending had been portrayed, because the fanbase (as you can see by this thread) is extremely partisan and fractured. There seems to be very little middle ground. Whether it Kuroneko, Ayase, Manami, or Kirino, I doubt this thread would have been much less angry, it'd just be different people angry for different reasons.
(I think what happened at the very end gets people angry for a slightly different reason, but I think this initial anger doesn't survive a more detailed study of the plot points and the way they're presented.)
Kyousuke basically breaks up with every girl. The reason is for a mock wedding. If the online speculation is right, the producer wants to have the wishful ending. Kyousuke may end up with any girl.
Someone mentioned that novel has a story. It's when Kirino is talking to Kyousuke's future wife.
There is nothing in the interview that even so much as suggests at what you're saying at all. The part in the spoiler tag is patently false; said story does not exist in the novels.
(I'd also point out that the interview was posted with a more accurate translation in the Spoiler & Speculation thread.)
Akito Kinomoto
2013-08-19, 22:51
My original impression of the OVAs was mixed, then rose to good, then became below-average when someone told me something crucial: Kirino has always loved Kyousuke but we never know when Kyousuke started to love her. A few more discussions later and I knew something went wrong. Ironically, my thoughts on season two went up because by itself it's actually good. What do I mean by that? Well, as I always say, more thoughts below. A lot more.
After the entertainment shock value of these OVAs has worn off, please stare in pure, unadulterated horror at what is unequivocally the biggest downfall a series has ever experienced. What started as a quirky tongue and cheek look at the anime fandom and a story about siblings bonding became a romcom between anime fans and a story about sibling bondage.
But the shift in focus didn’t affect season two a lot as the only problem it had was Kuroneko’s rushed story arc. By itself, season two is still good. But as the OVAs rolled around to conclude the series, it exposed a lot of season two’s problems that don’t affect it otherwise.
The OVAs’ most obvious flaw is Kuroneko’s story arc. In season two, Kuroneko’s romance with Kyousuke was short and inconsistent. There were only one or two episodes showing them going out as a couple with little to no sense of how much time has passed. Her romance needed more episodes or a coherent sense of time passing to be believable for what happens in the OVAs. As for the inconsistency, she acts giddy about being Kyousuke’s girlfriend despite her intentions to break-up with him. Season two treated Kuroneko’s story poorly and it shows in how ineffectual her story arc in the OVAs is.
Then the OVAs decide to have Manami and Kanako have their own finality with Kyousuke despite how irrelevant they were throughout the series. Kanako’s angle is bearable since it’s something that happens in passing that didn’t need development in season two. But what the writers try to do with Manami is only using the childhood friend card and nothing else. But as season two didn’t develop Manami then this was all they could manage. That is again another problem the OVAs made to where there wasn’t an issue before.
But the most damning thing of all is the final pairing. Actually, screw it, it’s Kirino and Kyousuke. You knew it was coming. But anyway, their shamelessness over their relationship isn’t a problem at all. The problem is that while Kirino was clearly always in love with Kyousuke between the incestuous Visual Novels she played and her backstory, it’s not exactly clear when Kyousuke fell in love with Kirino. To be more precise, there’s no moment in season two that acts as the Silver Romance Bullet™ that shows Kyousuke trying to hide or deny any feelings since he acts the same as he always did. The best thing that can be said about the final pairing is that Kirino got a lot of development in season two to make her more believable in the OVAs. At the expense of other characters and unfortunately the other half of this romance.
And therein lies the problem with the Oreimo 2 OVAs: It makes problems that wouldn’t matter otherwise by trying to throw every character a bone while Kirino got the whole damn skeleton. A skeleton that Kuroneko got caught in during season two and buried the rest of its characters in the OVAs. The only appropriate response to the way this series has ended is “Ore no Anime ga konna ni Hidoi Wake ga Nai!”
.... it’s not exactly clear when Kyousuke fell in love with Kirino. To be more precise, there’s no moment in season two that acts as the Silver Romance Bullet™ that shows Kyousuke trying to hide or deny any feelings since he acts the same as he always did.
I don't know, to me, it was the whole episode where they look for Kuroneko.
"...I could totally fall for her."
Yeah. That's something brothers say about their little sisters all the time. No, wait. That's the type of thing guys only say about girls that they're head over heels for.
relentlessflame
2013-08-19, 23:48
Kirino has always loved Kyousuke but we never know when Kyousuke started to love her.
The final sign was actually in Episode 12... but it's cryptic on purpose, and often missed because people were so focused on Ayase and her subsequent rejection. The important thing was to notice was how strong of a motivator being reunited with Kirino was for him. Even though Ayase was with him the whole time, and even though he still had things to resolve with Kuroneko, Kirino is the person who he's thinking of and "fighting for". And it's the context of that separation and his realization that he doesn't want to be parted from her again that he realizes the true nature of his feelings. (Absence makes the heart grow fonder?)
Do I think this could have been more clear in the anime? Absolutely. But even in the original source material it was written in such a way to mask its intentions so that it would keep people guessing about what Kyousuke was going to do, and the omission of these hints preserved the same sort of "suspense" for the anime.
(I also agree with VORTIA above that there are supporting hints scattered throughout the earlier episodes as well, and that Episode 9, and Episode 15 of the first season are important mile markers on that journey.)
We had an entire debate in the novel thread back in the day about the trade-off between keeping your audience in suspense, and writing a story where everything seems clearly connected and well-justified (which could come across as "predictable") and everyone will have an opinion about this. But I do think the "bread crumb trail" of evidence is more obvious in the books than it is in the anime, since so much was cut or abbreviated for time. If your only objective was to "write a compelling love story between two siblings", this definitely isn't the way to write it... but that wasn't this work's only objective by a long shot. The sheer amount of passion people show for this story -- even if they hate the ending -- is itself an achievement that previous "sibling love stories" have not had by a long shot.
Soverence
2013-08-19, 23:55
I don't know, to me, it was the whole episode where they look for Kuroneko.
"...I could totally fall for her."
Yeah. That's something brothers say about their little sisters all the time. No, wait. That's the type of thing guys only say about girls that they're head over heels for.
I would have to agree with you as well on that point, after that whole affair Kyousuke's actions around Kirino do change a little which we can see when he is forced to leave the house to study. I feel like it is around then that he starts to realize his feelings. Although you could also argue he started to fall for her as early as the Season 1 OVA where he literally went half way around the world to get her cause he was lonely without her. The inner monologue he has when watching Kirino race against that girl (I forget her name) also starts to suggest he might have some actual feelings for her. The main reason we don't ever get that Silver Romance Bullet is in order to build up suspense for the finally when he finally does confess, that way no one knows who he is going to confess to.
Because they don't want to give up a obvious foreshadowing that means they would have to use a lot of subtle hints which the light novels do a lot better then the anime does. The anime removes a decent amount of the hints at this conclusion and further hurts itself by changing the backstory for the siblings and the way their past story was presented (Manami/Kyousuke/Kirino sleepover). I feel like they removed to many of Kyousuke's inner dialogues since they seemed really important to his character.
I'll add in....if anyone remembers, at the end of the very first episode where Kirino asks Kyousuke how he enjoyed the imouto dating sim, as he talks about it, his voice gets very soft when he goes over the details...something like "........and then they're gazing into the sunset and..." like he was honestly touched by the romance, even though it was bro and sis.
Perhaps this was also a subtle hint? The mood between him and Kirino in this scene also felt a little bit...and I remember the thought that briefly flashed in my head "Hm...are they actually going for.....!?" then "........nah, couldn't be!"
how naive was I?
It felt a good deal like foreshadowing.
zoolanderbr
2013-08-20, 00:48
Hi everybody, o'm sorry about my bad english (i'm from Brazil), the ending of anime is the same of light novel? In Light Novel Kirino and Kyousuke break up and turn only brother and sister?
I wish they still together in the future but dating =/
has any rumor about ova in future with this?
If anyone can answer me thank you.
GVN.Chaos
2013-08-20, 00:55
They agreed to break up in both LN and anime. How exactly are they follow the agreement is up to debate . Most of Kirino's fanbase agree that nothing changed :D
Akito Kinomoto
2013-08-20, 01:00
The final sign was actually in Episode 12... but it's cryptic on purpose, and often missed because people were so focused on Ayase and her subsequent rejection. The important thing was to notice was how strong of a motivator being reunited with Kirino was for him. Even though Ayase was with him the whole time, and even though he still had things to resolve with Kuroneko, Kirino is the person who he's thinking of and "fighting for". And it's the context of that separation and his realization that he doesn't want to be parted from her again that he realizes the true nature of his feelings. (Absence makes the heart grow fonder?)
I would have to agree with you as well on that point, after that whole affair Kyousuke's actions around Kirino do change a little which we can see when he is forced to leave the house to study. I feel like it is around then that he starts to realize his feelings. Although you could also argue he started to fall for her as early as the Season 1 OVA where he literally went half way around the world to get her cause he was lonely without her. The inner monologue he has when watching Kirino race against that girl (I forget her name) also starts to suggest he might have some actual feelings for her. The main reason we don't ever get that Silver Romance Bullet is in order to build up suspense for the finally when he finally does confess, that way no one knows who he is going to confess to.
The thing about subtle character development is that there's supposed to be a gradual change from start to finish but Kyousuke counts to five with his world trip and the fake boyfriend and jumps to ten during his confession. And the deliberate vagueness on Kyousuke's feelings is pointless anyway since traveling all the way to America is a tall order in and of itself. For the trail of mudprints Kyousuke might have behind him, his shoes are awfully clean.
relentlessflame
2013-08-20, 01:10
The thing about subtle character development is that there's supposed to be a gradual change from start to finish but Kyousuke counts to five with his world trip and the fake boyfriend and jumps to ten during his confession. And the deliberate vagueness on Kyousuke's feelings is pointless anyway since traveling all the way to America is a tall order in and of itself. For the trail of mudprints Kyousuke might have behind him, his shoes are awfully clean.
That's a matter of perspective. I would argue that the entire story from start to finish follows the progression of Kyousuke's feelings towards Kirino. The exact final form his feelings would take was not clear, and this was one of the questions that propelled the story ("will they or won't they?"). But the journey itself is traced throughout the whole work as a linear, gradual progression.
That doesn't mean that there aren't also other relationships that progressed throughout the series as well. If there were not, there would not have been any mystery or suspense about the destination, and that was a major factor that built hype/interest in the narrative.
I honestly don't know what to think about the ending. I have so many mixed emotions about it.
I've been following this show for the past 3 years, and it was one of the first shows that got me back into anime to being with. So it'll always have a special place in my heart.
But this ending, it felt like we were just stolen from, and there's nothing we could do about it. I feel like it wasted our time by doing the no girl ending. I mean, what's the point if they even do this option? We had it, right there. But then they "broke up". Just felt like a bitch slap to the face to me. Especially as a Kirino fan.
It felt like a cop out due to that Japanese law against incest-related material. And it just upsets me.
I may have to re-watch it and let it sink in a bit more before I can give it it's final score. But I still imagined a better ending than this. I hate how we have to "assume" what happens next.
relentlessflame
2013-08-20, 02:20
But this ending, it felt like we were just stolen from, and there's nothing we could do about it. I feel like it wasted our time by doing the no girl ending. I mean, what's the point if they even do this option? We had it, right there. But then they "broke up". Just felt like a bitch slap to the face to me. Especially as a Kirino fan.
It felt like a cop out due to that Japanese law against incest-related material. And it just upsets me.
Since I'm guessing someone else will say it if I don't (and it'll just repeat old comments), I'd encourage you to read over this thread if you have time for more perspectives to consider about the ending.
Since I'm guessing someone else will say it if I don't (and it'll just repeat old comments), I'd encourage you to read over this thread if you have time for more perspectives to consider about the ending.
I actually have a few longer ones open in tabs, which I plan to get to soon. Like the novel explanation by Sigup which I've already read half way through. It's made me feel a bit better.
But like I said, I plan to let it sink in some more, maybe watch it again, and read some more comments about it before giving the final score.
frivolity
2013-08-20, 02:57
A weird feeling of deja vu has been bugging me ever since I watched the 3 episodes yesterday. It was only today that I finally realised where I seem to have seen and felt all this before.
Does anyone remember Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka from a few years ago? The main characters of both series share a few similarities, but what really strikes me is that the ending left me with pretty much the same feeling.
Densetsuhakai
2013-08-20, 03:01
A weird feeling of deja vu has been bugging me ever since I watched the 3 episodes yesterday. It was only today that I finally realised where I've seen and felt all this before.
Does anyone remember Akane-iro ni Somaru Saka from a few years ago? The main characters of both series share a few similarities, but what really strikes me is that the ending left me with pretty much the same feeling.
That's not fair dude. :D
Akane-iro Somaru Saka was a piece of sh.. The story build up to the one rich tsundere girl but suddenly change to the non-blood related sister in the last 1-2 episodes. :D
Oreimo at least had signs all over the series. :)
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