Licensed Dungeon ni Deai o Motomeru no wa Machigatte Iru Darou ka (LN) [Archive] - Page 14

Kuroageha

2015-09-23, 21:48

Hold there, Flower.

We're talking about this series spin off, Sword Oratoria, Railgun/Index are brought as examples because they're have a similar main/spin off relationship about events to prove a point.

The discussion was over already though, I think would've been better to use spoiler tag for the comparisons.

But they do in both cases. The Sisters arc deeply affected both Mikoto and Touma. It most certainly affected Accelerator who continued to play a major role in Index.
It didn't change anything that wasn't adressed in the main series, Railgun just showed Mikoto's point of view, repeated Touma's role and repeated Accelerator's character that was already done in more detail by Last Order when they met, and after it ended the aftermath of the arc was more about Accelerator and the clones which is covered in the main series rather than Mikoto's herself.

Have you forgotten it was due to the events of Oratario that led Bell to be attacked by a minotaur and subsequently saved by Aiz that was the very beginning of volume 1?
Yeah, but that was already adressed in the main series, and then just expanded in SO. Some events and characters are retconned like Lefiya.

To cite an example from Raildex, the events of the Daihaseisai involving Touma happened on the first day while the incident with Mikoto happened on the following day.
Yet it was barely referenced in the main series aka it didn't affect its plot or characters, for Kamachi, it was sunday.

Both SO and Railgun are used to expand events that already happened in the main series, sure they do have their own events but those have no influence in their respective series which is the point of the discussion.

It's nothing wrong with that, actually I think for example Railgun is better when isn't clinging on Index series so it could do something new instead of hinting what it's already known in the main series.

Flower

2015-09-23, 21:54

Thats not how I was reading it, but as long as it is finished all is well.

In the future btw, if you disagree with something I or any other mods do it is best to approach us privately so as not to fill up threads with such things, okay? Thanks.

Now then, back to the DanMachi LN thread. :)

bakato

2015-09-23, 22:20

Hold there, Flower.

We're talking about this series spin off, Sword Oratoria, Railgun/Index are brought as examples because they're have a similar main/spin off relationship about events to prove a point.

The discussion was over already though, I think would've been better to use spoiler tag for the comparisons.

It didn't change anything that wasn't adressed in the main series, Railgun just showed Mikoto's point of view, repeated Touma's role and repeated Accelerator's character that was already done in more detail by Last Order when they met, and after it ended the aftermath of the arc was more about Accelerator and the clones which is covered in the main series rather than Mikoto's herself.

Yeah, but that was already adressed in the main series, and then just expanded in SO. Some events and characters are retconned like Lefiya.

Yet it was barely referenced in the main series aka it didn't affect its plot or characters, for Kamachi, it was sunday.

Both SO and Railgun are used to expand events that already happened in the main series, sure they do have their own events but those have no influence in their respective series which is the point of the discussion.

It's nothing wrong with that, actually I think for example Railgun is better when isn't clinging on Index series so it could do something new instead of hinting what it's already known in the main series.

We are looking at this from an in-universe chronological perspective. Whether Omori just decided to expand on events through Oratoria doesn't matter. Fact is, Bell would've never met Aiz if it weren't for Aiz's story that led to a minotaur attacking Bell and Aiz subsequently saving him. That's influencing the main story.

The main point of this discussion if you'd actually been paying attention was the matter of TIME. So I'll put in words for you.

From the moment Bell woke up after arriving at the 18th floor to the fight with Goliath, from what I could glean from spoilers and summaries, there was no unaccounted for TIME during which Leafiya and Bell teamed up to take down a monster. Even if there was, every morning, noon, and night is pretty much accounted for, so it's strange that their fight wasn't even so much as hinted at in the main storyline considering how compressed the events were.

In fact, if my speculation is correct, this fight occurred after the peeking incident so the time frame is even shorter.

Somethindarker

2015-09-23, 23:23

We are looking at this from an in-universe chronological perspective. Whether Omori just decided to expand on events through Oratoria doesn't matter. Fact is, Bell would've never met Aiz if it weren't for Aiz's story that led to a minotaur attacking Bell and Aiz subsequently saving him. That's influencing the main story.

The main point of this discussion if you'd actually been paying attention was the matter of TIME. So I'll put in words for you.

From the moment Bell woke up after arriving at the 18th floor to the fight with Goliath, from what I could glean from spoilers and summaries, there was no unaccounted for TIME during which Leafiya and Bell teamed up to take down a monster. Even if there was, every morning, noon, and night is pretty much accounted for, so it's strange that their fight wasn't even so much as hinted at in the main storyline considering how compressed the events were.

In fact, if my speculation is correct, this fight occurred after the peeking incident so the time frame is even shorter.

Because the author wrote that story AFTER he'd already written the main story so of course things will be shoe horned in(one of the main complaints about the spinoffs). The spin off wasn't in the works until a bit after volume 3 so there should be some discrepancies this isn't Isin or Kamachi we're talking about I love this story to death but the author is bad at foreshadowing or interweaving plots. Wouldn't be surprised if he never even thought of Oratoria until his editor or publisher asked him to write something out and just inserts things on the fly, the spin off doesn't influence the main story at all so the author is using the main series as it's back bone and the story shows it.

Zefyris

2015-09-24, 01:55

Somethindarker

2015-09-24, 04:35

I really don't think that fight will be before the end of the main story's volume 5.
SO's volume 5 will probably pass the time of the end of the main story's volume 5 before half of the pages, so if that fight is in the second half, it is after.

Also, Somethindarker, don't go back to Kamachi please. Especially not by suggesting that Kamachi is a reference in anything to be compared at.He's a bad writer, and if you compared danmachi volume 1-9 to index volume 1-9, THe quality of Danmachi is higher in everything except world building ImO. So let's stop here on that point.

Things in SO are very well inserted, and it explains lots of things that would be left unexplained in the main story. That's what a spin off is supposed to do. That's what it's doing.

I disagree respectfully but you're right let's stop here for the threads' sake.

I also have to disagree with you on SO, don't get me wrong aside from Lefailya it's a solid story and entertaining, the story in and of itself to me feels like the author just sat back, analyzed his main series and just inserted the intertwining plot elements. Now that's not to say the plot is weak if anything I find the political and relationships of the different guilds and gods to be it's strong points I just find the nods and winks to the main series distracting and, again this is my opinion, I find Ais and Lefiya fucking boring and would much rather have had a new character and guild be the focus because I've never liked the cute girls doing cute things and frankly I find it nauseating sometimes.

RDNexus

2015-09-24, 04:47

Then that's just your bloody preferences speaking volumes here, not a main problem of sorts with SO.
Which means... It's your problem, deal with it.

Somethindarker

2015-09-24, 05:07

Then that's just your bloody preferences speaking volumes here, not a main problem of sorts with SO.
Which means... It's your problem, deal with it.

He posted his opinion I'm sharing mine. That's the entire point of this forum to share your opinions with other people and discuss different elements of the story. There are plenty of people who share my views as there are plenty of people who share his these aren't new opinions I wasn't saying the story sucks nor trying to change his views just illustrating what I don't like about SO like he did we're not arguing we're agreeing to disagree he has his views and I have mine no part of my post implied that my opinions are a mass consensus or did I assume everyone has my same taste.

glazer69

2015-09-24, 05:41

Damn it im jealous to those who can read japanese if only my teacher isn't a weed addict

Somethindarker

2015-09-24, 05:50

Damn it im jealous to those who can read japanese if only my teacher isn't a weed addict

Haha, Most of my family is japanese(at least on the side of my family I'm on good terms with) and I spent 6 years over there as a kid, sadly I can barely read anymore but I can talk well enough and my cousin is kind enough to give me summaries when I skype with her also one of my buddies is a closet otaku so he recommends good novels and manga. There is a guy I knew who paid this japanese kid in college to translate LN's for him for 50 bucks a volume pretty funny. I've known guys who took japanese courses become fluent in writing and speaking in a year I'm actually thinking of taking some courses to relearn how to read.

RDNexus

2015-09-24, 05:58

The more people capable of getting intel to the lurkers, the better :p

Lucid King

2015-09-24, 09:23

From the sounds of it, most likely the Hestia familia is gonna need a way to increase the experience it's members get to keep up with Bell. People have asked why Bell's progress has slowed down in recent chapters, that is because Bell's Familia can't keep pace with him. Remember Bell was in the dungeon with Bete when he achieved level 3, otherwise he would still be a level 2.

I also believe the fight involving Bell and Lefiya against the plant monster takes place when Bell was training with Bete too. It would also explain why Finn was hitting on Lily in volume 8 since she was also pictured along with Weif in SO 5 art.

Somethindarker

2015-09-24, 09:44

Echizen777

2015-09-24, 10:27

Wasn't the topic whether there are plot inconsistencies in the story or not? So far there has been no inconsistencies so there's no reason to think there'll be one in the next volume.

From the sounds of it, most likely the Hestia familia is gonna need a way to increase the experience it's members get to keep up with Bell. People have asked why Bell's progress has slowed down in recent chapters, that is because Bell's Familia can't keep pace with him. Remember Bell was in the dungeon with Bete when he achieved level 3, otherwise he would still be a level 2.

I also believe the fight involving Bell and Lefiya against the plant monster takes place when Bell was training with Bete too. It would also explain why Finn was hitting on Lily in volume 8 since she was also pictured along with Weif in SO 5 art.

Training with Bete? Wasn't it with Ais and Tiona?

Somethindarker

2015-09-24, 11:02

Wasn't the topic whether there are plot inconsistencies in the story or not? So far there has been no inconsistencies so there's no reason to think there'll be one in the next volume.

Training with Bete? Wasn't it with Ais and Tiona?

I think the topic was at what time exactly did Lefiya and Bell team up. Personally I haven't read the 2 newer SO books or even summaries yet so I can't say wonder if Lefiya will also get a crush on Bell I hope she doesn't Bell can do better.

BigG00se

2015-09-29, 18:50

Somethindarker

2015-09-30, 03:08

Sorry for being kinda lazy but Is there any1 willing to tell me how many ppl belong to bell's "harem" or those who are interested him in and vice versa? Seeing that there is 164 pages It'd take ages >.<

Wow. You can check it's wikipedia page about the show and read some character bios to get your answer or the fan wiki.

Fiir-chan

2015-10-04, 00:27

wtf. why did the wikia put up the spoilers for vol 9

Twi

2015-10-04, 03:23

That's sort of what a wikia is for. People place information so others can read it. Granted, spoilers are notorious for being misinterpreted and it would be better to wait.

breno.m.fis

2015-10-22, 14:07

Hey guys, how do I post a picture. I found an image on a video of Youtube which would give a really nice future Bell and would like to share.

Tri-ring

2015-10-22, 20:09

Hey guys, how do I post a picture. I found an image on a video of Youtube which would give a really nice future Bell and would like to share.

Screen grab →　Trim with app.→　Upload to Flickr, Photobucket, etc. →　Post

breno.m.fis

2015-10-24, 20:29

Somethindarker

2015-10-25, 05:30

Hey guys, I was listening to music on YouTube the other day and found this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_lbaJOvNK4

This would give a great picture and soundtrack for a future badass Bell at higher levels, leading an expedition of Hestia Familia?

He looks kinda lame to me the long hair makes him too girly there a few I've seen where he's a little older and more rugged, just gotta find them.

There were others but I don't remember where they were I'll post more if I can find them.

http://pre14.deviantart.net/1e88/th/pre/i/2015/203/2/3/bell_cranel_by_cerberuslives-d92ed5y.jpg

mugetsu1

2015-10-26, 12:45

Zefyris

2015-10-26, 16:38

One question, some days I read somewhere that Bell had fought in the dungeon with Bete ago, (the man beast that mocked him in Volume 1) in volume 6 before the war game, is it true? And if so, could you give details if possible?

There is no such scene in volume 6. BEte stops a fight between Bell's party and Apollo's familia in a bar, and Bete after stopping the fight warns Bell to not get cocky, but that's about it.

Somethindarker

2015-11-12, 21:57

Did the manga adaptation end? Can't read the bit at the bottom if so that's a shame, hopefully another good artist is tapped to continue it.

Okashira

2015-11-12, 23:14

Did the manga adaptation end? Can't read the bit at the bottom if so that's a shame, hopefully another good artist is tapped to continue it.

There is absolutely no signs of this ending in Gangan online (specially when the next chapter already has a date). But well, if this one has a magazine version, the gangan online is probably 4~ or more issues behind like the usual, so dunno?

Speaking of Gangan online, Riveria trolling and teasing Ais after getting 'dumped' by Bell was absolutely and completely delicious :heh: and Ais is close to getting to an "otome vision" level when remembering the different impressions that Bell gives each time she bumps into him :heh: :heh: good stuff overall.

So, confirmed that Aria was a spirit after all? Wow, I'm sure behind of everything like usual :heh: :heh: considering that Spirits and humans shouldn't be able to have kids....... Ais family past & birth circumnstances are probably gonna be one of the big highlights of the Oratoria series (well, this was hinted so even before the reveal)

Kuroageha

2015-11-12, 23:28

It's on hiatus.

Somethindarker

2015-11-13, 04:17

It's on hiatus.

That's a shame I wonder why.

Daedric dishwasher

2015-12-01, 02:22

That's a shame I wonder why.

I hope it continues soon....

just a random thought.........70-80 yrs from now, bell will be wrinkled, and hestia still remains the same(?)....people might call them grandpa and grandkid lol

ACertainStark

2015-12-02, 17:00

Sword Oratoria Licensed:
https://twitter.com/yenpress/status/672159233811619840

Kuroageha

2015-12-02, 17:12

This triggers me.

KnightShade

2015-12-02, 17:20

good news actually considering there was no trans for this at all. wish they had done this sooner

bakato

2015-12-02, 17:30

Not long until we get the manga.

ACertainStark

2015-12-02, 18:14

Really happy with this. Was on my wish list. :heh:

Wandering Soul

2015-12-02, 21:27

Sword Oratoria Licensed:
https://twitter.com/yenpress/status/672159233811619840
That honestly isn't too bad considering we didn't even have a translator for it. Now to just wait for the manga to follow.

kasimmorathi

2015-12-02, 21:35

It'd be pretty fantastic to see a Sword Oratoria anime as well; I wonder how probable that is? Last I saw Danmachi novels were selling pretty well.

Okashira

2015-12-02, 21:59

Somethindarker

2015-12-02, 22:16

It'd be pretty fantastic to see a Sword Oratoria anime as well; I wonder how probable that is? Last I saw Danmachi novels were selling pretty well.

Considering that Danmachi's label hardly has block busters I say it's safe that they are going to animate Oratoria at some point (since, it's not like they have other options right now).

Also, if you notced most of the Oratoria's cast in the anime actually had some pretty decent talents, the moment I realized that I figured that they were aiming to handle this franchise like they did with Index.

..... This is all nothing but especulation, of course.

The sales are decent but since it's first volume it hasn't been able to break into the top 20 while their biggest seller being the original series is consistently in the top 10 with every volume release with the Oratoria ones selling less and less every volume(I'm not sure about this since actual physical numbers are hard to come by) with Oratoria only managing 1/3 of the sales compared to the original as of 2015. https://kuuderesshadow.wordpress.com/tag/sales-figures/

There's at 5-6 other series I'd rather see published than Oratoria since, personally, I find the series hard to finish with too much emphasis on filler like stories with hardly any impact of real expanding on the main series unlike Railgun or Accelerator to Index. Honestly Yenpress will probably just hinder translations and attention to the series with their DMCA's and it's too easy to find rips of their tablet copies. No idea on the manga sales. Maybe we'll get a drama cd or two instead since they're cheaper to make and perfect to bring attention to their lower selling series.

Kunagisa

2015-12-03, 14:10

The sales are decent but since it's first volume it hasn't been able to break into the top 20 while their biggest seller being the original series is consistently in the top 10 with every volume release with the Oratoria ones selling less and less every volume(I'm not sure about this since actual physical numbers are hard to come by) with Oratoria only managing 1/3 of the sales compared to the original as of 2015.

There's at 5-6 other series I'd rather see published than Oratoria since, personally, I find the series hard to finish with too much emphasis on filler like stories with hardly any impact of real expanding on the main series unlike Railgun or Accelerator to Index. Honestly Yenpress will probably just hinder translations and attention to the series with their DMCA's and it's too easy to find rips of their tablet copies. No idea on the manga sales. Maybe we'll get a drama cd or two instead since they're cheaper to make and perfect to bring attention to their lower selling series.

I ... don't think any of these are correct man.

*2位　**位　*1回　*40,342部　*40,342部　15/10/13　***6日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　5　　*早売り1.5日
It's on 2nd place on Oricon the week it went on sale.
22位　**位　*2回　**9,678部　*11,252部　14/01/10　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　　* 早売り4.5日
33位　**位　*2回　**6,971部　*10,581部　14/01/10　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　小冊子付き限定版　　*早売り4.5日
36位　*8位　*2回　**6,797部　*24,670部　14/06/11　**12日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　2　　*早売り1.5日
M12位　*27,091部　14/06/11　19日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　 2
20位　**位　*2回　**9,956部　*14,370部　14/12/12　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか外伝　ソード・オラトリア　3　　 *早売り2.5日
29位　50位　*2回　**7,970部　*13,306部　14/12/12　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか外伝　ソード・オラトリア　3　小冊子付き限定版　書き下ろし4PリーフレットSS付き　　*早売り2.5日
46位　13位　*3回　**5,965部　*52,839部　15/05/13　**19日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　4　　*早売り1.5日
*9位　*2位　*2回　*13,542部　*53,884部　15/10/13　**13日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　5　　*早売り1.5日
M*5位　*59,347部　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　５
Cumulative sales with available oricon data
Vol 1: 21,833
Vol 2: 27,091
Vol 3: 27,676
Vol 4: 52,839
Vol 5: 59,347
You would be very hard pressed to find any unanimated LN titles that can beat Oratoria's sale; not to mention Oratoria still beats a lot of animated titles (none of the other series from the same publisher even come close like Okashira mentioned; Rakudai volume 8 is 28,698). For comparison purposes (since they're licensed together), the best Asterisk's volume 05 is 24,912 and Re:Zero Vol 3 is 15,711.

Just purely from a financial perspective, Oratoria is higher even without the anime boost. Furthermore, I still believe that Oratoria will get its own anime, which Yen Press might already know about (YP licensed Danmachi (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=5090285#post5090285) 5 months before SBC even registered Danmachi's website (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=5274990&postcount=405)). Either way, they have to be making money with Danmachi's English version for them to consider licensing Oratoria since they waited this long to do it. Statistically Oratoria sales since the beginning has been around 40-50% of the main series' per volume; the discrepancy I really just attribute to whether people care about Hestia or Ais being the main heroine.

As for without any real impact in the story, that's also not true and we had this discussion previously in this thread already months ago.

..... This is all nothing but especulation, of course.

There're also baits (here (https://twitter.com/hegame/status/614474394509799424) and here (https://twitter.com/inai909/status/614475073756381184)); the book's twitter even specifically said Gaiden not season 2 or continuation or any other variation! Might really just be bait but I've been biting it. Would be toppest bait if the producers and OST composer and the official twitter are all in on it, even though I'm fully prepared for having no announcement next February (http://danmachi.com/special/index.html#event).

KnightShade

2015-12-03, 14:22

^yep, danmachi is officially the new SAO as far as sales are concerned lol.

honestly i do think the anime would have been better off if the ended at volume 3. it would have help connect a possible SO spinoff anime much better.

Somethindarker

2015-12-03, 16:01

I ... don't think any of these are correct man.

It's on 2nd place on Oricon the week it went on sale.
22位　**位　*2回　**9,678部　*11,252部　14/01/10　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　　* 早売り4.5日
33位　**位　*2回　**6,971部　*10,581部　14/01/10　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　小冊子付き限定版　　*早売り4.5日
36位　*8位　*2回　**6,797部　*24,670部　14/06/11　**12日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　2　　*早売り1.5日
M12位　*27,091部　14/06/11　19日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　 2
20位　**位　*2回　**9,956部　*14,370部　14/12/12　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか外伝　ソード・オラトリア　3　　 *早売り2.5日
29位　50位　*2回　**7,970部　*13,306部　14/12/12　**10日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか外伝　ソード・オラトリア　3　小冊子付き限定版　書き下ろし4PリーフレットSS付き　　*早売り2.5日
46位　13位　*3回　**5,965部　*52,839部　15/05/13　**19日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　4　　*早売り1.5日
*9位　*2位　*2回　*13,542部　*53,884部　15/10/13　**13日　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　5　　*早売り1.5日
M*5位　*59,347部　ダンジョンに出会いを求めるのは間違っているだろうか　外伝　ソード・オラトリア　５

I used yearly sales since those are the ones that matter when publishers green light anime, if it's released in week 2 of September it's not gonna have that much competition since it's only going up against 1 maybe 2 other LN's that week and it's sales are only going to go down.

You would be very hard pressed to find any unanimated LN titles that can beat Oratoria's sale; not to mention Oratoria still beats a lot of animated titles (none of the other series from the same publisher even come close like Okashira mentioned; Rakudai volume 8 is 28,698). For comparison purposes (since they're licensed together), the best Asterisk's volume 05 is 24,912 and Re:Zero Vol 3 is 15,711.

Just purely from a financial perspective, Oratoria is higher even without the anime boost. Furthermore, I still believe that Oratoria will get its own anime, which Yen Press might already know about (YP licensed Danmachi (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?p=5090285#post5090285) 5 months before SBC even registered Danmachi's website (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=5274990&postcount=405)). Either way, they have to be making money with Danmachi's English version for them to consider licensing Oratoria since they waited this long to do it. Statistically Oratoria sales since the beginning has been around 40-50% of the main series' per volume; the discrepancy I really just attribute to whether people care about Hestia or Ais being the main heroine.

For the first half of 2015 Oratoria barely broke the top 20 in sales overall;

1.　624,815　Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru.
2.　592,084　Mahouka Koukou no Rettousei
3.　528,617　Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka
4.　451,359　Naruto Hiden
5.　354,259　Sword Art Online: Progressive
6.　322,987　Kagerou Daze
7.　314,775　Sword Art Online
8.　245,373　Haikyuu!! Shousetsu-ban!!
9.　245,006　Yahari Ore no Seishun Love Comedy wa Machigatteiru. Side Stories
10.　227,314　Saenai Heroine no Sodatekata

11.　209,615　Sword Art Online Alternative: Gun Gale Online
12.　205,604　Kokuhaku Yokou Renshuu Series
13.　187,250　Shinyaku Toaru Majutsu no Index
14.　182,068　Shinmai Maou no Testament
15.　179,886　Mikagura Gakuen Kumikyoku
16.　176,175　Seiken Tsukai no World Break
17.　165,836　Tokyo Ghoul
18.　159,655　Ao Haru Ride
19.　151,798　Absolute Duo
20.　142,853　Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatteiru Darou ka Gaiden: Sword Oratoria

21.　128,690　Owari no Seraph: Ichinose Guren, 16-sai no Hametsu
22.　127,020　Hataraku Maou-sama!
23.　118,972　Baka to Test to Shoukanjuu Side Stories
24.　118,001　Arslan Senki (Kadokawa)
25.　113,538　Log Horizon
26.　112,658　Amagi Brilliant Park
27.　108,329　Noushou Sakuretsu Girl
28.　108,130　Madan no Ou to Vanadis
29.　107,557　Durarara!!
30.　105,602　Ansatsu Kyoushitsu: Koro-tan

Now don't get me wrong it's sales are good I just don't think they're strong enough to warrant a season yet, maybe once it reaches 8 volumes or so we'll get one.

As for without any real impact in the story, that's also not true and we had this discussion previously in this thread already months ago.

I haven't read finished volume 4 or started 5 but from the first and second volumes aside from a couple of Bell cameos the story has been pretty self contained sticking to their own guild politics and so on.

There're also baits (here (https://twitter.com/hegame/status/614474394509799424) and here (https://twitter.com/inai909/status/614475073756381184)); the book's twitter even specifically said Gaiden not season 2 or continuation or any other variation! Might really just be bait but I've been biting it. Would be toppest bait if the producers and OST composer and the official twitter are all in on it, even though I'm fully prepared for having no announcement next February (http://danmachi.com/special/index.html#event).

Didn't know about those, wow do they even have enough content for a season, or maybe we'll be getting ova's or a movie.

Sarka

2015-12-12, 21:25

Tri-ring

2015-12-12, 22:34

I hope it continues soon....

just a random thought.........70-80 yrs from now, bell will be wrinkled, and hestia still remains the same(?)....people might call them grandpa and grandkid lol

Actually no since once blessed as they go up the ranking they get closer to god and they start to age slower. The Braver, Fin Dimner of Loki familia talks about this in one of the volumes.

Zefyris

2015-12-13, 05:04

Actually no since once blessed as they go up the ranking they get closer to god and they start to age slower. The Braver, Fin Dimner of Loki familia talks about this in one of the volumes.
That was volume 8 I think, yes. He explains how he's quite older than he looks due to this. So as long as Bell doesn't lose Hestia's contract and keep rising in level he will age more and more slowly. Judging by Finne, if he manages to reach level 6-7 before stopping, he should be able to age something like 2 times slower than normal, I'd say. Maybe even a bit better than this.

Somethindarker

2015-12-13, 05:13

That was volume 8 I think, yes. He explains how he's quite older than he looks due to this. So as long as Bell doesn't lose Hestia's contract and keep rising in level he will age more and more slowly. Judging by Finne, if he manages to reach level 6-7 before stopping, he should be able to age something like 2 times slower than normal, I'd say. Maybe even a bit better than this.

Wasn't it implied that the higher level you are the slower you age? Coulda sworn I read that somewhere.

Zefyris

2015-12-13, 07:30

Wasn't it implied that the higher level you are the slower you age? Coulda sworn I read that somewhere.

exactly yes. At level 1 the difference is marginal, but it slow dow more and more with higher level. For someone who is high level since a long time like Finne, the difference is huge. I don't remember how old is Finne but I think he's around 45 already ?
Finne warns Bell that apparent age =/= real age when it comes to high level adventurers.

Breimn

2015-12-13, 08:00

So..... Bell will end up being an eternal shota by how fast he is levelling up?

SeaDam

2015-12-13, 08:08

He is taking just months to do what others took years to accomplish

Somethindarker

2015-12-13, 08:11

exactly yes. At level 1 the difference is marginal, but it slow dow more and more with higher level. For someone who is high level since a long time like Finne, the difference is huge. I don't remember how old is Finne but I think he's around 45 already ?
Finne warns Bell that apparent age =/= real age when it comes to high level adventurers.

Yup Finn's in his early to mid 40's although it doesn't matter since hobbits' age are hard to establish Lily is like in her early 20's and only acts/talks the way she does out of habit and someone(at jcafe) mentioned Ottar is like 70 or 80 but that could be bullshit since the source was never linked. But that's pretty damn cool either way I don't think they'll be immortal or anything just have longer life spans, it doesn't matter anyway when a familia member dies the god has the choice to bring them over to their part of heaven.

Zefyris

2015-12-13, 12:13

There's only one mortal who achieved immortality in Danmachi. He payed quite the price for it.
Outside of that special case, Immortals beings are gods and Spirits.
Closest from being immortal as far as longevity goes are the high elf, IE, Riveria, who's even said to be more beautiful than some goddesses.

Actually, bringing a mortal's soul over after death to their side in god realms is almost impossible if you don't have a special ability to discern the souls' potential like Freiya has.
So that's actually quite a gamble for the god, leaving the mortal realm forever with only a small chance of getting the wanted mortal soul, and high risk to just return forever to heaven without the mortal soul.

Kuroageha

2015-12-13, 13:32

Good thing Bell has luck.

Tachibana

2015-12-13, 17:46

Somethindarker

2015-12-13, 19:50

So being at a high level and having immortality at the same time would roughly make one equal to that of a god?

Is it possible for an adventurer to be superior to a god?

BTW, was the mortal who gained immortality ever named? Or was it someone who was brought up in conversation as a famous nameless adventurer?

Just being immortal isn't enough gods have an incredible amount of power sealed. While personally I think it's impossible for an adventurer to come even close to match a gods' power I suppose it is possible if an immortal adventurer reached a high enough level.

Zefyris

2015-12-13, 20:07

Somethindarker

2015-12-13, 20:46

the mortals are receiving directly their power from their god so they can't become more powerful than what is channelling a part of their power into them imo.
And yes when they rise in level hey are closer to god, but to which level would they become roughly equivalent? level 1,000,000,000 maybe? that's not really doable anyway.

I suppose if a god decides to channel ALL of themselves into the adventurer, they reach level 999,999,999 and they somehow hide the fact from all the omnipotent beings. Sure totally they can become a match... Not impossible but pretty much impossible.

Tachibana

2015-12-13, 21:46

Somethindarker

2015-12-13, 23:05

Perhaps it might be possible if the adventurer gains a power that surpassess their own god.

Now when they say the an adventurer comes close to being a god, does that mean in terms of power or state of existence?

I don't think anyone's ever stated to have power rivaling a god, although it could also be an exaggeration for effect when they say that but as of now no known adventurer has been outright as strong as a diety. All the deities so far have been shown to have at least a sense of wisdom of a god and they all have to adhere to rules they've set so they can stay in the mortal realm I'm pretty sure letting an adventurer even come close to reaching their feet in terms of power is a violation of the rules and would automatically send them back to heaven.

fazri

2015-12-14, 01:10

where i can found summaries for this novel from vol 5 to the latest volume?

oh god why yen press licence this

Somethindarker

2015-12-14, 01:12

where i can found summaries for this novel from vol 5 to the latest volume?

oh god why yen press licence this

Google is your friend.

Zefyris

2015-12-14, 07:27

Perhaps it might be possible if the adventurer gains a power that surpassess their own god.

Now when they say the an adventurer comes close to being a god, does that mean in terms of power or state of existence?

state of existence. However, it was clearly said that as they pass level, they just come a LITTLE BIT closer to godhood. Gods are far far far above anything a mortal can reach, even at level 7 or 10 or whatever. Even at level 7, a mortal is still far away from Spirits, and Spirits are far away from Gods themselves...

Somethindarker

2015-12-14, 07:54

It's not completely impossible but pretty much impossible so it's no use thinking anyone in the story will achieve that power, I forgot what it's called but the law of immortality states that at some point in it's long lifespan they WILL have to cease. Nothing is truly forever and something like a god is exempt of that rule so essentially nothing can become a god if it started off needing immortality.

edit; It's called something like the law of motion, basically it states that anything capable of motion will eventually have to stop there's no if ands or buts about it. So basically at some point in the immortals life they'll become unable to move, whether getting trapped underground or locked in something and thrown to the bottom of the ocean never to be found.

edit; my bad Zefyris I forgot to delete the quote(i click the nearest quote to get into the notepad quicker) after I typed no need to respond to me, just reinforcing your points.

kagato3

2015-12-14, 09:35

At best I could see an adventurer becoming more powerful then the earthly forms of the gods but keep in mind that they have severely gimped themselves and only have the barest fraction of their true powers

Somethindarker

2015-12-14, 10:43

Zenthon

2015-12-15, 19:36

Did any one pick up volume 4 today? I found it cool that yen press added 2 short stories to the release.

kasimmorathi

2015-12-16, 01:13

Did any one pick up volume 4 today? I found it cool that yen press added 2 short stories to the release.

I had, admittedly, completely forgotten it came out. Just purchased it up on Amazon. Without delving into spoilers, what are the short stories roughly about? Different POVs or completely different set of characters?

Zefyris

2015-12-16, 02:51

Did any one pick up volume 4 today? I found it cool that yen press added 2 short stories to the release.

If this is Naza's quest and the Present to hestia (whatever they're called), they were already in the japanese version of volume 4.

Zenthon

2015-12-16, 02:57

If this is Naza's quest and the Present to hestia (whatever they're called), they were already in the japanese version of volume 4.

Really? When i went to check the japanese version i didn't see them in there

Zefyris

2015-12-16, 03:24

I can confirm you they are. The main story finishes around p230 in volume 4 IIRC, after that it's around 90 pages made of those 2 short stories.

Lucid King

2015-12-22, 16:03

Somethindarker

2015-12-22, 16:40

I personally don't think the gods have a crazy amount of power. I think level 12 or 14 is the beginning of what qualifies as godly power begins. This is a moot point for everyone else since we can't really tell how strong a god is, I put in the level I thought an adventurer using magic could easily destroy a city in an instance. The gods are also limited by their affinities so they can't use every skill out there, meaning a god of nature can't beat a god of war in battle.

You're overestimating what an adventurer can do the strongest person in Orario is Otar at level 7 and he isn't even is the same galaxy to a god in terms of power. The gods sealed their power to descend to the mortal realm so currently they're all the same if not weaker than humans. Also I don't think you understand how deities work, just because someone is a god of war doesn't make them more powerful than a god of literature or wisdom their affinity or personality doesn't change the fact that they're an all powerful being. Don't try to assign power levels to gods mate.

Zefyris

2015-12-22, 20:22

Gods>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spirits >>>> current highest level adventurer (Ottarl, lvl 7).
As if coming level 14 would make you close of gods lol. I'm not even sure a level 14 could match a spirit. That sounds extremely unlikely.
Gods in Danmachi are almost omnipotent if they don't restrain themselves.

Corvo269

2015-12-23, 11:20

Somethindarker

2015-12-23, 11:52

What about level 100

Even at level 100 to 1 million an adventurer is not immortal nor omnipotent, a god is, so they could never be as powerful as an unsealed god. They get their power from the fraction of power they use to give all their adventurers strength. Think of the power that a god gives their familia as a drop in a bucket compared to the entire sea that a god has. There is no power levels when it comes to gods they are omnipotent thus above any power scaling humans can wrap their heads around.

Lucid King

2015-12-23, 12:54

Echizen777

2015-12-23, 13:34

Somethindarker

2015-12-23, 13:59

I think people are over estimating the power of the gods. I personally think the gods in series fall between the ones of Marvel and what some people seems to think of them. Ottar is also supposed to be immune to Freya's charm which could mean level 7 could make you strong enough to resist a god in their unsealed form(meaning no bowing or awe like when Hestia undid her seal). I guessed 12 or 14 because of the power Riveria could use with her spell at the beginning of SO where she takes down a army of monsters with her spell and estimating what level would it take to destroy Orario with one spell since gods are able to do it in an instant. Keep in mind that this doesn't make the person a god but as strong power wise as a god.

Even when Freya was "unsealed" she wasn't using her true power because all the gods around her would sense it and make her leave the mortal realm. Gods are referred to as omnipotent in the LN omnipotent means there is no limit to their power they are literally everywhere at once, with the power to snuff out the world and basically every OP shit you can imagine they could do. That's what's omnipotent what we've seen so far are gods in the mortal realm with their actual power sealed in heaven. When they descended from heaven they made a deal that they would never use their actual power only an infinitesimal amount they'd bring with them.

Lucid King

2015-12-23, 15:25

How is Ottar supposed to be immune? He loves her.

He loves her naturally not because of her charm ability.

Even when Freya was "unsealed" she wasn't using her true power because all the gods around her would sense it and make her leave the mortal realm. Gods are referred to as omnipotent in the LN omnipotent means there is no limit to their power they are literally everywhere at once, with the power to snuff out the world and basically every OP shit you can imagine they could do. That's what's omnipotent what we've seen so far are gods in the mortal realm with their actual power sealed in heaven. When they descended from heaven they made a deal that they would never use their actual power only an infinitesimal amount they'd bring with them.

Omnipotent can depend on how it's interpreted, people can say omnipotent just because it seems like what they are referring to seems omnipotent. I could go back to the stone age with all my knowledge and be considered omnipotent. Let's not forget about the hobbit goddess who never descended and of how all the gods and goddess are all human. There's alot open to interpretation, so the possibility of an adventurer becoming as powerful as a god is not out of the question.

Somethindarker

2015-12-23, 16:12

He loves her naturally not because of her charm ability.

Omnipotent can depend on how it's interpreted, people can say omnipotent just because it seems like what they are referring to seems omnipotent. I could go back to the stone age with all my knowledge and be considered omnipotent. Let's not forget about the hobbit goddess who never descended and of how all the gods and goddess are all human. There's alot open to interpretation, so the possibility of an adventurer becoming as powerful as a god is not out of the question.

Ok let me put it this way a god/goddess uses 1% of their power(and I'm being incredibly generous here) to fuel their familia, with this amount Loki, Heaphastus, Ishtar, Ganesha etcs; have many, like Loki who not only has a shitload of normal adventurers(at least 100) but at least 30 adventurers who range from levels 2-6, familia members will probably be level capped since the dungeon only goes to level 100 and I doubt anyone can reach that level in one life time. Aiz has been leveling since she was like 8 and only barely reached level 6 with a good familia backing her up. The novel refers to a gods power as unimaginable, omnipotent and infinite there's no open to interpretation here man the strongest adventurer we've been shown is Ottar and he's only a level 7.

Zefyris

2015-12-23, 17:46

Errr, Hestia never unsealed her power. Never. That was just her natural aura, just like the charm is Freiya's aura. That's not their power, that's something they're emanating naturally as gods.

The best hint we have about God's powers level are the feat of strength of a "spirit", which are known to be the most powerful race on earth but far below god. And that feat of strength of a mere "part" of a spirit was incredibly powerful. That was completely nuts. And it was just a corrupted part of a spirit. Not even a spirit, let alone a god. that's crazy.
If a god unlock his/her power he can probably blast out a whole country with a snap of finger.

since the dungeon only goes to level 100
There's no such info. We don't know where the dungeon stop.
And that would be a weird number to stop to, too. Creatures level raise by one every 12 floor, and floor 100 isn't a multiple of 12.

Somethindarker

2015-12-23, 18:35

There's no such info. We don't know where the dungeon stop.
And that would be a weird number to stop to, too. Creatures level raise by one every 12 floor, and floor 100 isn't a multiple of 12.

I was just using general rpg mechanics, most level caps and such are about 100, it could go all the way to 500+ for all we know.

The Green One

2015-12-23, 18:42

Okashira

2015-12-24, 14:46

A little bit of topic side tracking, but manga chapter 47 is out on gangan (starts LN volume 4), and it looks like this isn't going on a hiatus so far (which someone mentioned), as 48 has a February date.

Oh, and I'm only posting this to say that I'd would gladly pay good varis so that Eina-san would scold me thoroughly ♪♪

Zefyris

2015-12-24, 17:22

Considering it takes a normal adventurer a couple of years to gain a level, and that's just going from lvl 1 to lvl 2, I don't think anyone could reach the proverbial level 100 in their lifetime. Ottar is a lvl 7 and he's considered the strongest in the city, I don't think it's realistic that we'd ever go beyond lvl 10, assuming we even get there at all.

Actually, most adventurers take far more than 2 years to pass a level. The previous record was one year from level 1 to 2. That's the fastest level to pass, and we know from vol 5 of sword oratoria that when Ais got that record, peoples thought it was incredible due to how fast it was compared to others peoples. So the average is probably far higher than 2 years from 1 to 2, and even longer afterwards.

Somethindarker

2015-12-24, 17:37

Actually, most adventurers take far more than 2 years to pass a level. The previous record was one year from level 1 to 2. That's the fastest level to pass, and we know from vol 5 of sword oratoria that when Ais got that record, peoples thought it was incredible due to how fast it was compared to others peoples. So the average is probably far higher than 2 years from 1 to 2, and even longer afterwards.

The strongest adventurer in the history of Orario, as far as we know, is Otar and he's only level 7. Finn has been in the Loki familia I think since the beginning and he's only level 6 and the dudes in his 40's. I'm fairly certain no one aside from Bell is gonna overtake Otar and even then it's highly doubtful since he's got Haruhime with him now. All this talk about reaching god level and reaching levels 10+ is, in my opinion, pointless and asinine. If you've read the novels, and the spinoffs, then you'd know how insane it is for the average adventurer to reach level 3 and how they basically beat into your skull how difficult it is to gain stats. The only reason, apart from her OCD level grinding, is at level 6 is because she's part of the strongest guild who takes her to the lowest levels possible and even then after spending weeks in the dungeons killing high level mobs grinding she only gains like 5-10 in her stats.

The Green One

2015-12-24, 20:25

This is what makes Bell such an insane anomaly and one of the reasons Hestia is so desperate to keep his secret skill under wraps.

kasimmorathi

2015-12-24, 20:29

Somethindarker

2015-12-25, 03:24

Out of curiosity, having only read the 4 officially translated volumes and anime so far, is there a reason that Hestia doesn't have any more familia members now? Post-Bell's speedy progress you'd think that there would be at least some random adventurers seeking out his familia.

I realize that in future, untranslated volumes...
Some of Bell's party members seem to join his familia?

Just curious as to whether or not Hestia is outright turning down other applicants or literally no one else has approached her.

Hestia literally JUST started her familia like 2 weeks before the beginning of the novel and most adventurers wanna join a well established familia. Also Hestia isn't a well known god so not many people even KNOW about her familia there's rumors that it's a trouble making guild with a possible cheater, swindler, useless magical blacksmith and failure of a prostitute. Oh also the 200 million valis debt.

Zefyris

2015-12-25, 14:23

Especially the debt. the other things you mentioned aren't especially said by others as reasons to not join. Before that debt was known (volume 7 ), there was also Hestia's physical appearance that was pointed as a problem. Peoples dreaming of becoming adventurers obviously would like a familia more experienced, but even for those who haven't got a chance with more experienced familia, they can't really take seriously a big breasted loli god with a twin tail. So if they have to choose a god with no or almost no familia, they aren't choosing Hestia. There was also the problem that the way to reach Hestia's house wasn't "known publicly" until volume 6. So even if someone was desperate enough to make a contract with Hestia like Bell did, except if that person is lucky enough to directly encounter a member of the Hestia familia, he'll have to give up on Hestia just the same anyway. So yeah, no wonder Hestia didn't get a single person before Bell, and that even after that, they didn't get a single new person for quite a while.

Basically, before getting Bell level 2 basically Hestia was like the last person to ask for adventurers. Not only she had no known progressions in the dungeon so she was a very low ranked familia, but on top of this, her appearance, so even among the low ranked she would come dead last or almost. THen, they start to level in familia rank, but their place is unknown until volume 6. Then their place is known and they start to be a very interesting familia for adventurers, but the debt becomes known.

Basically, from volume 7 onward the familia starts to be talked about and well known due to some various stuff, so lots more of adventurers are interested in it, but then the rumour of the gigantic debt strikes in and makes them run away again.

It happened once that Hestia refused herself someone who wanted to join though, when she felt that Bell's virginity would be in danger with that person under the same roof x).

Somethindarker

2015-12-25, 14:57

kari-no-sugata II

2015-12-25, 18:07

Also to about Hestia, you gotta admit she's a pretty fail goddess when looked at from an outsiders perpective she's loud, obnoxious, running around town acting like a kid and has many part time jobs. To us as viewers she's alright because we're so used to anime girls and what not but it's been repeatedly shown that adventurers are just normal dudes so seeing a girl being "cute" or "loud" would make them go "the fuck is up with her?". Then you look at their old base of operations which is a shitty part of town with only one room I wouldn't join it.

I can't agree.

Like Bell, she was starting from zero. She's had a number of poor habits but she's starting to cure herself of them and mature - she's already come a long way. She does have emotional outbursts, particularly when it comes to Bell, but it's very rare that she makes poor descions because of it.

Zefyris

2015-12-25, 18:51

Also to about Hestia, you gotta admit she's a pretty fail goddess when looked at from an outsiders perpective she's loud, obnoxious, running around town acting like a kid and has many part time jobs. To us as viewers she's alright because we're so used to anime girls and what not but it's been repeatedly shown that adventurers are just normal dudes so seeing a girl being "cute" or "loud" would make them go "the fuck is up with her?". Then you look at their old base of operations which is a shitty part of town with only one room I wouldn't join it.

Yes, that's part of the problem, just like her appearance, peoples have a hard time to consider her as a goddess even though she's radiating Shin'i so there's no doubt about it for anyone, it just doesn't feel right for most peoples to consider her as a possible god for their familia.
Although honestly, there is a freaking lots of gods who clearly deserve the word "kichigai" to describe their attitude/personality. Look at Loki or Ganesha. But in her case she really looks too much like a child compared to other gods around.

Somethindarker

2015-12-25, 20:56

I can't agree.

Like Bell, she was starting from zero. She's had a number of poor habits but she's starting to cure herself of them and mature - she's already come a long way. She does have emotional outbursts, particularly when it comes to Bell, but it's very rare that she makes poor descions because of it.

WE know all about her, but to the objective outsider who see her running around town for her part time jobs, tripping, wearing ratty clothes, calling out for Bell, getting yelled at by her bosses, getting drunk and being hauled away she seems like a poor excuse for a goddess when you compare her to others like Haephestus, Freya, shit even Loki. They call her Midget Big Tits around town and her familia has rumors surrounding it as a misfit guild of cheaters(Bell), thieves(Lili), useless blacksmith(Welf) and fail prostitutes(Haruhime).

Yes, that's part of the problem, just like her appearance, peoples have a hard time to consider her as a goddess even though she's radiating Shin'i so there's no doubt about it for anyone, it just doesn't feel right for most peoples to consider her as a possible god for their familia.
Although honestly, there is a freaking lots of gods who clearly deserve the word "kichigai" to describe their attitude/personality. Look at Loki or Ganesha. But in her case she really looks too much like a child compared to other gods around.

We might find her charming but honestly if I was a new adventurer I'd avoid her familia like the plague. Wonder how Freya's familia recruits...

kari-no-sugata II

2015-12-26, 08:35

WE know all about her, but to the objective outsider who see her running around town for her part time jobs, tripping, wearing ratty clothes, calling out for Bell, getting yelled at by her bosses, getting drunk and being hauled away she seems like a poor excuse for a goddess when you compare her to others like Haephestus, Freya, shit even Loki. They call her Midget Big Tits around town and her familia has rumors surrounding it as a misfit guild of cheaters(Bell), thieves(Lili), useless blacksmith(Welf) and fail prostitutes(Haruhime).

Yeah, sorry, reading comprehension fail there.

I still think you're being a bit unfair but anyway.

Zefyris

2015-12-26, 08:57

We might find her charming but honestly if I was a new adventurer I'd avoid her familia like the plague. Wonder how Freya's familia recruits...

I would honestly join. Not for Hestia herself (although she's not bad herself) but for the adventurer crew itself, and thus despite the huge debt. There are too many interesting adventurers by now in that Family to ignore it. Plus they have very interesting connections with extraordinary adventurers like the Loki familia and Ryu Lion (who btw, just was AWESOME again in sword oratoria 5, OH. MY. GOD. THAT. CHARACTER. ) as well as Hephaistos.
Obviously that's if I had those kind of info. Although Hestia's familia connections with Hephaistos and Loki are not especially a secret either.
Either Hestia or Hephaistos for me, really. Or one of the two other gods close to Hestia, Takemikaduchi and Miach (despite the debt once again). Takemikaduchi doesn't seem like he's recruiting though. And Hephaistos requires being a blacksmith. So yeah, Hestia isn't bad at all.

Freiya has it freaking easy. Peoples comes at her family by themselves so they just have to choose those interesting them, plus Freiya can see the souls of adventurers to see their future potentials. So choosing is freaking easy. And Freiya look at the town from the highest place in town, and if she sees someone interesting her among the other familia, she'll just snatch him away by making him fall in love with her before his own family even realize the potential of the youngster. Basically Freiya mainly get the men and Loki mainly the women. They probably don't clash very often over a potential family member due to this.

I still think you're being a bit unfair but anyway.
Not really, it is clearly stated in the LNs that one of the reason Hestia wasn't finding anyone to start her family was her outward appearance indeed.

Somethindarker

2015-12-26, 10:56

I would honestly join. Not for Hestia herself (although she's not bad herself) but for the adventurer crew itself, and thus despite the huge debt. There are too many interesting adventurers by now in that Family to ignore it. Plus they have very interesting connections with extraordinary adventurers like the Loki familia and Ryu Lion (who btw, just was AWESOME again in sword oratoria 5, OH. MY. GOD. THAT. CHARACTER. ) as well as Hephaistos.
Obviously that's if I had those kind of info. Although Hestia's familia connections with Hephaistos and Loki are not especially a secret either.
Either Hestia or Hephaistos for me, really. Or one of the two other gods close to Hestia, Takemikaduchi and Miach (despite the debt once again). Takemikaduchi doesn't seem like he's recruiting though. And Hephaistos requires being a blacksmith. So yeah, Hestia isn't bad at all.

Freiya has it freaking easy. Peoples comes at her family by themselves so they just have to choose those interesting them, plus Freiya can see the souls of adventurers to see their future potentials. So choosing is freaking easy. And Freiya look at the town from the highest place in town, and if she sees someone interesting her among the other familia, she'll just snatch him away by making him fall in love with her before his own family even realize the potential of the youngster. Basically Freiya mainly get the men and Loki mainly the women. They probably don't clash very often over a potential family member due to this.

Yea Hestia would be bottom of my list to be honest, Haephestus wouldn't work since I'm no blacksmith, Take neither since I personally am not a fan of samurai culture, Loki is second because despite not liking her as much thanks to Oratoria I still like Loki alot and Freya is my top choice since because Otar is just a fucking beast. Another interesting choice would be Hermes since they have a very loose nit familia and I'd dig being a mercenary in my spare time so I can sell my sword to Hestia(because honestly they'd need it), Haephestus(their blacksmiths need people as warriors since Welf himself mentions that they're picky about who they take which makes me think its a manpower issue) and Loki when they head to the lower floors en masse.

Kuroageha

2015-12-26, 11:22

Those wouldn't accept you if you're not special snowflake.

Somethindarker

2015-12-26, 11:50

Those wouldn't accept you if you're not special snowflake.

That's the beauty of self inserting you can be a special snowflake if you want or a hard working badass. Me? I'd like to think I'd be like Shieldbro getting power by relentless grinding and understanding of the rules or Gun-Ota by innovation.

Zefyris

2015-12-27, 04:22

Yea Hestia would be bottom of my list to be honest, Haephestus wouldn't work since I'm no blacksmith, Take neither since I personally am not a fan of samurai culture, Loki is second because despite not liking her as much thanks to Oratoria I still like Loki alot and Freya is my top choice since because Otar is just a fucking beast. Another interesting choice would be Hermes since they have a very loose nit familia and I'd dig being a mercenary in my spare time so I can sell my sword to Hestia(because honestly they'd need it), Haephestus(their blacksmiths need people as warriors since Welf himself mentions that they're picky about who they take which makes me think its a manpower issue) and Loki when they head to the lower floors en masse.

I would never go to Freiya. Except for Ishtarl, she's pretty much the god I would avoid the most (well with Apollo too... and any other god of beauty around). Even Soma now that he took things into hands is a better choice than her. Being brainwashed into liking her and assisting her in all those illegal things she does behind the scene for no other reason than her whim? No THANKS. Plus that familia is a mess. Except for their loyalty to Freiya herself, it's not monolithic at all. Rather than huge campaign in the dungeon like the Loki familia do, the head of the familia is actually adventuring alone. And others are competing for Freiya's attention and don't hesitate to attack each other in the dungeon if they can. Which seems to amuse Freiya so she leave things as it is.

As for Loki, She's a damn fine god to rally indeed (especially if you're a man, as you'll avoid those sexual harassment as well), but she doesn't have Freiya's capacity to discern the soul's potential, so except if you're a pretty girl, You'll have first to find another family to start with. I doubt she'll directly take men family member except if she had a good reason to choose you from the start. As an adventurer who just arrived, even if we're supposing you're a "special snowflake" who will develop some amazing abilities later on, you still need to develop them first. Finne and Riveria aren't going to be convinced by your talk alone either.

If your target is Loki familia, honestly choosing a lesser level familia which has lots of contacts with their top members isn't a bad idea to begin your "journey". So Hestia familia is actually a very fine choice.

Hermes is a no. Too shady for me. Most of his familia members are hiding their real level too. Dionysus is another choice which seems quite okay, although it's currently a dangerous choice due to what they're fighting against right now. But fighting alongside the "banshee" seems like a nice choice. Ganesha, except for the fact that he's very weird, is actually a very good choice but his family is too big for me in reverse.

SeaDam

2015-12-27, 08:43

I don't recall, was Ais born into Loik's familia?

Somethindarker

2015-12-27, 08:52

I would never go to Freiya. Except for Ishtarl, she's pretty much the god I would avoid the most (well with Apollo too... and any other god of beauty around). Even Soma now that he took things into hands is a better choice than her. Being brainwashed into liking her and assisting her in all those illegal things she does behind the scene for no other reason than her whim? No THANKS. Plus that familia is a mess. Except for their loyalty to Freiya herself, it's not monolithic at all. Rather than huge campaign in the dungeon like the Loki familia do, the head of the familia is actually adventuring alone. And others are competing for Freiya's attention and don't hesitate to attack each other in the dungeon if they can. Which seems to amuse Freiya so she leave things as it is.

As for Loki, She's a damn fine god to rally indeed (especially if you're a man, as you'll avoid those sexual harassment as well), but she doesn't have Freiya's capacity to discern the soul's potential, so except if you're a pretty girl, You'll have first to find another family to start with. I doubt she'll directly take men family member except if she had a good reason to choose you from the start. As an adventurer who just arrived, even if we're supposing you're a "special snowflake" who will develop some amazing abilities later on, you still need to develop them first. Finne and Riveria aren't going to be convinced by your talk alone either.

If your target is Loki familia, honestly choosing a lesser level familia which has lots of contacts with their top members isn't a bad idea to begin your "journey". So Hestia familia is actually a very fine choice.

Hermes is a no. Too shady for me. Most of his familia members are hiding their real level too. Dionysus is another choice which seems quite okay, although it's currently a dangerous choice due to what they're fighting against right now. But fighting alongside the "banshee" seems like a nice choice. Ganesha, except for the fact that he's very weird, is actually a very good choice but his family is too big for me in reverse.

Oh if I were to just start of course I'd start at the bottom and work my way up. Hermes has a very loose structure with regards to working together and he let's them manage themselves which for a person like me who's always been very independent But let's get away from that topic.

What familia do you guys wanna know more about? Set's familia is almost never mentioned and seems interesting I wonder if Jesus or Buddha have familias.

Zefyris

2015-12-27, 09:31

I don't recall, was Ais born into Loik's familia?

She wasn't. I remember the veterans of Loki familia talking about when she first joined. I think she joined around 7. IIRC Riveria mainly took care of her, which isn't surprising as she's pretty much Loki familia's mother figure.

What familia do you guys wanna know more about? Set's familia is almost never mentioned and seems interesting I wonder if Jesus or Buddha have familias.
Definitely want to know more about the Hephaistos Familia. We only know the head and the god of that familia. It's definitely got to have some pretty interesting fellows. Other than that, the Ganesha familia too. I would love a flashback about Astraea's familia back when it was still a familia active in Orario too.

Jesus and Buddha can't really be called "gods" though.
Also I think danmachi is working with the old pantheons of gods and no monotheist religion's gods, who wouldn't really fit with the rest.

RDNexus

2015-12-27, 09:47

Then, what kinds of Old Pantheons do you think could fit into this story's setting? And which ones do we know that exist in there?

SeaDam

2015-12-27, 09:52

She wasn't. I remember the veterans of Loki familia talking about when she first joined. I think she joined around 7. IIRC Riveria mainly took care of her, which isn't surprising as she's pretty much Loki familia's mother figure.

I thought that was the case, but I wasn't sure. Which leads me to question why Bell had such a hard time entering a familia. I mean sure, he is slight of stature, but he's not a 7 year old girl. Did Loki notice that Ais is unique in her parentage as has been hinted at? At what age on average does someone enter a guild?

Somethindarker

2015-12-27, 10:00

She wasn't. I remember the veterans of Loki familia talking about when she first joined. I think she joined around 7. IIRC Riveria mainly took care of her, which isn't surprising as she's pretty much Loki familia's mother figure.

Definitely want to know more about the Hephaistos Familia. We only know the head and the god of that familia. It's definitely got to have some pretty interesting fellows. Other than that, the Ganesha familia too. I would love a flashback about Astraea's familia back when it was still a familia active in Orario too.

Jesus and Buddha can't really be called "gods" though.
Also I think danmachi is working with the old pantheons of gods and no monotheist religion's gods, who wouldn't really fit with the rest.

Oh yea forgot about Astrea, there should be a prequel volume dealing with Zeus and Heras familias THAT would be awesome.

You're right most of the gods we've seen are from polythiestic mythologies instead of the traditional Judeo Christian mythology. Gotta admt would love to see Buddha and the Christian god mucking about.

Then, what kinds of Old Pantheons do you think could fit into this story's setting? And which ones do we know that exist in there?

Too many to count we've seen Egyption, Celtic, Greek, Roman, Norse, India and old Shinto so far but there's still Aztec, Mayan, Chinese, Mediterranean ones like the Sumerians and Hitite gods not to mention all the Native American deities and African ones they can just pull out at a whim. Humanity has had no shortage of mythical being's to worship way before the current big three.

RDNexus

2015-12-27, 10:16

"Current Big Three"? Like God, Buddha and... Maybe Allah? :confused:

And yes, that's quite the buttload of pantheons existing in history...
Are any of those more relevant or important (historically) than others?

SeaDam

2015-12-27, 10:24

"Current Big Three"? Like God, Buddha and... Maybe Allah? :confused:

Allah is Arabic for God. Christian God = Jewish God = Islamic God, same god different ways of getting there.

RDNexus

2015-12-27, 10:26

Allah is Arabic for God. Christian God = Jewish God = Islamic God, same god different ways of getting there.
Thanks for the explanation. Since Somethindarker stated three current big deities, I simply tried to guess them.

Somethindarker

2015-12-27, 10:35

Thanks for the explanation. Since Somethindarker stated three current big deities, I simply tried to guess them.

"Current Big Three"? Like God, Buddha and... Maybe Allah? :confused:

And yes, that's quite the buttload of pantheons existing in history...
Are any of those more relevant or important (historically) than others?

The current biggest 3 are the Abrahamic God(Christian/Islamic/Jewish), Hinduism Gods, and Chinese local deities(too many to count). None are more important that the other(from my point of view) they're just the most populace, it's more accurate to say mythology/religion poor wording on my part.

Chinese folk religions fall under one banner and is similar to Hinduism since whatever part of China you find yourself you'll find the local people worshiping someone else its not really organized more like a loose confederation. Hinduism has a lot of different gods too, honestly their stories are epic as fuck and I recommend reading up on them, it's very similar to the Norse and Greek religions in that their stories are entertaining.

Zefyris

2015-12-27, 14:18

I thought that was the case, but I wasn't sure. Which leads me to question why Bell had such a hard time entering a familia. I mean sure, he is slight of stature, but he's not a 7 year old girl. Did Loki notice that Ais is unique in her parentage as has been hinted at? At what age on average does someone enter a guild?

The top brass of the loki familia know about her parentage from the start so yes.
there is no average, but becoming adventurer at 7 years old is incredibly uncommon, and lvl 2 at 8 is completely unique.
Young children in guilds are usually simply the children of older familia members.

BladeMancer

2015-12-27, 16:44

The current biggest 3 are the Abrahamic God(Christian/Islamic/Jewish), Hinduism Gods, and Chinese local deities(too many to count). None are more important that the other(from my point of view) they're just the most populace, it's more accurate to say mythology/religion poor wording on my part.

Chinese folk religions fall under one banner and is similar to Hinduism since whatever part of China you find yourself you'll find the local people worshiping someone else its not really organized more like a loose confederation. Hinduism has a lot of different gods too, honestly their stories are epic as fuck and I recommend reading up on them, it's very similar to the Norse and Greek religions in that their stories are entertaining.
Actually it is very much accepted that god and allah (god in different language) are one and the same, idk about the Jewish one. Islam and Christianity do share common beliefs such as the existence of Christ (only difference being the position of Christ which is either a prophet or the son of god), Moses (Musa in islam), Joseph son of Jacob (Yusuf son of Yaqub) and many more. The point I'm trying to make is that both religions share the same god but they show different interpretations of certain events so we cannot categorize them as separate entities.

RDNexus

2015-12-27, 17:11

Then (if I can ask), can someone point the most important deities of each pantheon previously mentioned?

Somethindarker

2015-12-27, 17:16

Actually it is very much accepted that god and allah (god in different language) are one and the same, idk about the Jewish one. Islam and Christianity do share common beliefs such as the existence of Christ (only difference being the position of Christ which is either a prophet or the son of god), Moses (Musa in islam), Joseph son of Jacob (Yusuf son of Yaqub) and many more. The point I'm trying to make is that both religions share the same god but they show different interpretations of certain events so we cannot categorize them as separate entities.

Yea that's why I lumped them together as the Abrahamic God they're basically the same only with details being different.

Then (if I can ask), can someone point the most important deities of each pantheon previously mentioned?

Well in Christianity/Islam/Judaism it's of course "God", Hinduism it depends on who you ask though but the main 3 are Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva with lesser ones like Ganesha, Rama, Kali etc; being important to different sects. Chinese deities are a fucking mystery to me since I only know that there's a shitload of them and my ex sais every small town or family has different ones they worship.

This is the Damachi thread and the conversation has derailed, so let's end it here. If you're genuinely interested check out wikipedia or hit up a library to read up on them trust me it's interesting there's literally been hundreds or religions over the ages and we've probably forgotten more than we know about.

To get back on topic, for some reason I get the feeling that someone is gonna die fairly soon in the novel, usually around the volume 10 mark, serious shit goes down and when it does someone usually dies. My moneys either on Ryu, Syr or Ais(doubt it but it would definitely shake up the story) and for some reason I get the feeling that the Loki familia is gonna fall by the end of the story with Hestia's stepping up to replace them.

RDNexus

2015-12-27, 17:40

To end the off-topic, I've been taking QUITE the while to research on a few of those pantheons, like the Greco-Roman, Egyptian, Norse, Angels and Demons. The Chinese and Celtic deities are basically a clusterfuck of them and such a terrible mix that I've got confused within the first minutes of reading about them. Not counting the fact the first groups I mentioned had already made my head spin...

Sarka

2015-12-28, 20:39

I like to see a monkey king familia. or Hercules familia. basically demigod turn god family.

Daedric dishwasher

2016-01-11, 12:19

I wonder about hestia if bell kun's time comes (law of immortality)

eisai_haramasukoi

2016-02-19, 08:16

Just finished the anime.

I'm curious what happened after that. Spoilers, please.

The Green One

2016-02-19, 10:21

Next volume of the light novel being released in the US is volume 5 which is where the anime stopped. Think about buying the LN, it'll be getting into uncharted territory soon enough.

AP24

2016-02-19, 11:06

Just finished the anime.

I'm curious what happened after that. Spoilers, please.

Just finished recently too, I wonder if you were waiting until BD subs were out too.

Here are the list of companies that make up the DanMachi anime production comittee and the businesses they're involved other than anime production:

Warner Bros. Home Entertainment
Global distribution of BD/DVD and digital media of anime

Klockworx
Distribution and sales of BD/DVD

SB Creative
LN publisher

Showgate (now called "Hakuhodo DY Music & Pictures”)
Broadcast rights, distribution rights sales, overseas rights sales, BD/DVD release

MAGES
Subsidiaries include 5pb Inc, which is involved in production and sales of games and musical works.

FuRyu
Planning, development, manufacturing, and sales of amusement prizes, video games and smart phone games.

Movic
Planning, production and sales of goods such as trading cards, figures, CDs, and other general media related to the anime industry. It is part of Animate group.

GENCO
Producer

This is listed in the order shown in the ED credits, is this the order starting from the one that gave the most funding? If that's the case then BD/DVD and LN sales really are the most important factors in getting another anime season.

Somethindarker

2016-02-19, 11:14

Just finished recently too, I wonder if you were waiting until BD subs were out too.

Here are the list of companies that make up the DanMachi anime production comittee and the businesses they're involved other than anime production:

Warner Bros. Home Entertainment
Global distribution of BD/DVD and digital media of anime

Klockworx
Distribution and sales of BD/DVD

SB Creative
LN publisher

Showgate (now called "Hakuhodo DY Music & Pictures”)
Broadcast rights, distribution rights sales, overseas rights sales, BD/DVD release

MAGES
Subsidiaries include 5pb Inc, which is involved in production and sales of games and musical works.

FuRyu
Planning, development, manufacturing, and sales of amusement prizes, video games and smart phone games.

Movic
Planning, production and sales of goods such as trading cards, figures, CDs, and other general media related to the anime industry. It is part of Animate group.

GENCO
Producer

This is listed in the order shown in the ED credits, is this the order starting from the one that gave the most funding? If that's the case then BD/DVD and LN sales really are the most important factors in getting another anime season.

What matter for a second season is the spike in LN sales(which were decent I think 15-20%) and popularity at the time. There is a good chance for a second season I'm guessing late this year to early next year we're getting an announcement, barring a NGNL situation.

AP24

2016-02-19, 11:41

Just remembered DanMachi was just recently added to the list of series featured in Gangan GA festival to be held early next month. All the other series are recent or upcoming anime and DanMachi is the only anime that's almost a year old. I have a feeling second season anime will be announced during the event.

Somethindarker

2016-02-19, 16:10

RDNexus

2016-02-19, 17:13

It would depend of how much LN content could fit another cour and how that content would make the cut.

Somethindarker

2016-02-19, 23:07

It would depend of how much LN content could fit another cour and how that content would make the cut.

Well the same basic formula would suffice 12 episodes for the main story with the 13th being the Miach familia SS.

Eps 1-4 = War Game arc
Eps 5-8 = Ishtar/Haruhime Familia arc
Ep 9 = Miach Familia SS
Eps 10-13 = Orario Seige arc

My main gripe with season 1 is the shitload of stuff they just glossed over it made almost all the supporting cast paper thin. Although I understand why the Minotaur arc while being incredibly awesome wasn't that great a stopping point.

Zefyris

2016-02-20, 04:34

honnestly if they ever do a second season they should just limit the content of one cour in war game to haruhime's rescue.
The volume 8 isn't a good way to end a season anyway, and this makes too much stuff in one season jut like the first one.

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 04:55

LNs not written with a possible Anime Adaption in mind sure can be a pain in the ass... :upset:

eisai_haramasukoi

2016-02-20, 05:34

What volumes did the anime covered?

Zefyris

2016-02-20, 05:59

LNs not written with a possible Anime Adaption in mind sure can be a pain in the ass... :upset:

That's like 99,9% of them...

What volumes did the anime covered?
volume 1-5.
YEs, that was rushed as hell and cut everywhere.
volume 4 was "done" in one single episode, and volume 3 was mostly that as well since one of the two episode focused almost mostly in the last fight so everything else from the volume was "done" in one episode:

ep /volume
1-3/1
4-6/2
7-8/3
9/4
10-13/5

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 06:30

That's like 99,9% of them...
Hmm... I wouldn't say 99,9%, maybe something around 90%?

eisai_haramasukoi

2016-02-20, 06:41

Where can I read Volume 6?

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 06:57

Wait for the official english release. Fantranslations stopped when YenPress announced the licensing.

Zefyris

2016-02-20, 07:05

Hmm... I wouldn't say 99,9%, maybe something around 90%?

It's definitely closer from 99,9 than 90%.
You have no idea of the amount of LN getting out each year. compared with what is animated, the ratio is ridiculous.

Wait for the official english release. Fantranslations stopped when YenPress announced the licensing.

And he should start with volume 1 anyway. Too much stuff skipped.

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 07:12

I may not know how many LNs are out there but I sure know there are WAY more than those we see in Anime Format.

And, since Chaser asked for Vol06, I only answered about that one.

The Green One

2016-02-20, 11:28

Volume 6 will be available in English in August of 2016.

Somethindarker

2016-02-20, 14:11

I may not know how many LNs are out there but I sure know there are WAY more than those we see in Anime Format.

And, since Chaser asked for Vol06, I only answered about that one.

There are 9 volumes out so far with the 10th coming out in May, which is why I doubt we'll be getting another season this year. If anything an announcement this year with it coming out mid next year.

Zefyris

2016-02-20, 14:25

There are 9 volumes out so far with the 10th coming out in May, which is why I doubt we'll be getting another season this year. If anything an announcement this year with it coming out mid next year.

you do realize that volume 9 is the start of a new main arc, and that therefore a hypothetical season 2 shouldn't end with volume 9/10 but with volume 8 (if including the side story volume) or 7 (to avoid finishing the season with a side story volume).
The only case it could go otherwise is if they do a 2 cour for the second season, but that's not happening.

Most probably they aren't going to release a new anime series anime time soon (if ever) though, since they'll want to take the most profit from each season by spacing them enough for the sale boost of the first series .

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 14:26

Zefyris

2016-02-20, 14:27

I may not know how many LNs are out there but I sure know there are WAY more than those we see in Anime Format.

It's not just way more than what you see in anime. It's way more than what you even see listed in any place.
Oricon sales reports the top sales of LN each week. Those top sales have 20 titles just with bunkobon format alone. Per week. And that's the TOP sales. Most LN published in a week don't make it. Near the end of the year, I think it went over 100 LN published in a week. There's more LN published in one week than there's LN adapted in anime in a year. That already make more than 98% of LN that will never be adapted just with that simple fact. Add to that that lots of LN adapted were clearly not made to be adapted.

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 14:29

It's not just way more than what you see in anime. It's way more than what you even see listed in any place.
Oricon sales reports the top sales of LN each week. Those top sales have 20 titles just with bunkobon format alone. Per week. And that's the TOP sales. Most LN published in a week don't make it. Near the end of the year, I think it went over 100 LN published in a week. There's more LN published in one week than there's LN adapted in anime in a year. That already make more than 98% of LN that will never be adapted just with that simple fact. Add to that that lots of LN adapted were clearly not made to be adapted.
Lots of LNs not made to be adapted? Care to share some examples?

Somethindarker

2016-02-20, 14:56

you do realize that volume 9 is the start of a new main arc, and that therefore a hypothetical season 2 shouldn't end with volume 9/10 but with volume 8 (if including the side story volume) or 7 (to avoid finishing the season with a side story volume).
The only case it could go otherwise is if they do a 2 cour for the second season, but that's not happening.

Most probably they aren't going to release a new anime series anime time soon (if ever) though, since they'll want to take the most profit from each season by spacing them enough for the sale boost of the first series .

They rushed the shit outta the first season so what's to stop them from doing it again? They made an entire volume only 1(or 2) episode last season which is why I'm hoping we don't get another anime why be disappointed again.

Wandering Soul

2016-02-20, 17:37

They rushed the shit outta the first season so what's to stop them from doing it again? They made an entire volume only 1(or 2) episode last season which is why I'm hoping we don't get another anime why be disappointed again.
If you talking about volume 4, then that was done in one episode. Even then they skipped things like the naming conference between the gods, which is where Hestia starts to suspect Freya.

quigonkenny

2016-02-20, 20:09

Just finished the anime.

I'm curious what happened after that. Spoilers, please.
There's a pretty substantial wiki out there, easily found, if you're really interested. Novels one through four are available on Kindle for $8 a pop, with 5 and 6 coming out later this year. I'm in the same boat as you. Just finished the anime, and what has been scanlated of the main storyline manga. Starting in on the novels.

Kind of surprised by Bell's inner monologue. He's not quite the innocent the other media might have you thinking he is. No Kazuma Satou, but he's definitely a teenage boy...

LNs not written with a possible Anime Adaption in mind sure can be a pain in the ass... :upset:
Not every LN adaptation can be as orderly and easily defined as NGNL first season. 3 LN, 12 eps, 4 eps per LN. And very faithfully adapted, except for the last few minutes, which I can actually live with. Now if they can just retcon those last few minutes (easily done) and get us a season 2...

RDNexus

2016-02-20, 20:21

Do you have any idea if there are any other LNs like that?

eisai_haramasukoi

2016-02-20, 20:36

Wait for the official english release. Fantranslations stopped when YenPress announced the licensing.

But there are translated chapters before the licensing, right? Are they all taken down?

Wandering Soul

2016-02-20, 21:53

But there are translated chapters before the licensing, right? Are they all taken down?
Yeah, translators usually taken even what was already translated down in order to show support for the official release. Even if they decide to keep them up they can get messages requesting that they take them down. Either way it is usually in their best interest to take down the translations.

The Green One

2016-02-20, 22:43

As I understand it, it's a legal rights thing too, as the licensed translators have bought the rights to translate and sell the story here in the US, so unlicensed ones doing it for free infringes on this so as far as I know charges can be pressed if the cease and desist is not followed.

Zefyris

2016-02-21, 05:13

If you talking about volume 4, then that was done in one episode. Even then they skipped things like the naming conference between the gods, which is where Hestia starts to suspect Freya.

they also did volume 3 in 2 episodes btw.

Not every LN adaptation can be as orderly and easily defined as NGNL first season. 3 LN, 12 eps, 4 eps per LN. And very faithfully adapted, except for the last few minutes, which I can actually live with. Now if they can just retcon those last few minutes (easily done) and get us a season 2...
Yet Madhouse still managed to screw up even that adaptation of NGNL so good with the way they ended it that it pretty much denies any possibility of a new season.

Lots of LNs not made to be adapted? Care to share some examples?
taking only 2015-2016 adaptations of a LN I've read there''s already Danmachi, RnY, Alderamin, Youjo Senki, Mahou Shoujo Ikusei Keikaku. And that's only those I've read for the last year/year to come of adaptation. In fact, clearly when I read LN, I can only say that there's barely any single of them that seems written with the possibility of an adaptation in mind. If we go with older adaptation that I've read, then Haruhi itself wasn't made for an adaptation (despite the success of it), spice & wolf, monogatari, Fate/zero, Gosick, Kyoukaisenjou no Horizon, Oregairu, Baccano, Toradora, Cube x Cursed x Curious, Kyouran Kazoku Nikki, Mondaiji, NGNL, Denpateki na Kanojo, the various toaru hikuushi series, Tatakau Shisho, bungaku shoujo,Index...
Yes, except maybe one suspicious title, pretty much all the LN I've read that received an adaptation were clearly not made with a possible adaptation in anime in mind. Some of them have content that are clearly not made for anime, and most of them aren't cut properly either.

As I understand it, it's a legal rights thing too, as the licensed translators have bought the rights to translate and sell the story here in the US, so unlicensed ones doing it for free infringes on this so as far as I know charges can be pressed if the cease and desist is not followed.

It is a legal thing indeed. In fact, translating a novel in your language and putting the translation online is illegal EVEN if there is no license in your language. Amateur LN translations are simply "tolerated" when there is no official translation planned, but it's only tolerated. If tomorrow they were to decide that they don't want to allow translations even for titles that haven't received any official translations, they can do it just fine.

RDNexus

2016-02-21, 06:21

Just like it happened to a few good titles that seem to have a BookWalker release at hand, right?

Also, Zefyris, why do you say that those titles you mentioned aren't cut for Anime Adaption? :upset:

AP24

2016-02-21, 07:20

It's getting more anime, but it's only OVA. More information will be revealed at the Gangan GA festival next month. If we're lucky we might get a second season later.

quigonkenny

2016-02-21, 22:08

they also did volume 3 in 2 episodes btw
Original poster said that.

EDIT: Never mind, that was you.

Yet Madhouse still managed to screw up even that adaptation of NGNL so good with the way they ended it that it pretty much denies any possibility of a new season.
Oh, don't be such a drama queen. It's not like Deen adapted it. I haven't even read all of Volume 6, which they grafted that ending from, and I could write a teaser that backtracks the important parts of that ending, gets things back on track for Volume 4, and fits into the humor of the series, all before the opening credits. All they have to do is have "that person" say no and cut communication. MCs say, "Oh well", and move on.

But enough about NGNL. Do we have a Sword Oratoria forum, or is that all tied into the respective LN and manga fora? Just got into the manga, and I'm loving the feel of it. Never thought I would see the day when a god is portrayed as a Badass Normal, and it works...

Wandering Soul

2016-02-22, 00:09

But enough about NGNL. Do we have a Sword Oratoria forum, or is that all tied into the respective LN and manga fora? Just got into the manga, and I'm loving the feel of it. Never thought I would see the day when a god is portrayed as a Badass Normal, and it works...

We don't have a thread for the Sword Oratoria LN or manga. Everything Danmachi related, we have pretty much discussed here.

quigonkenny

2016-02-23, 04:55

We don't have a thread for the Sword Oratoria LN or manga. Everything Danmachi related, we have pretty much discussed here.
Am I the only one thinking that Sword Oratoria itself needs to have its own spin off, just centered around Loki solving mysteries, and getting caught up in the various divine intrigues of Orario, and just generally being f**king awesome? A kind of "Sherlock Loki", if you will... I love the second perspective that SO gives to DanMachi, and like the different side of Aiz that we get, but the various Loki-centric parts are easily the best parts of either series.

Zefyris

2016-02-23, 05:45

"detective loki"?
It already exists.
That's called "matantei loki ragnarok".
It's bad though :p

We see a lot more of Loki further away in Sword Oratoria so I don't think it's necessary.

Oh, don't be such a drama queen. It's not like Deen adapted it. I haven't even read all of Volume 6, which they grafted that ending from, and I could write a teaser that backtracks the important parts of that ending, gets things back on track for Volume 4, and fits into the humor of the series, all before the opening credits. All they have to do is have "that person" say no and cut communication. MCs say, "Oh well", and move on.

But enough about NGNL. Do we have a Sword Oratoria forum, or is that all tied into the respective LN and manga fora? Just got into the manga, and I'm loving the feel of it. Never thought I would see the day when a god is portrayed as a Badass Normal, and it works...
A screw up is a screw up. That was uncalled for, this didn't do anything good, and this is putting a good obstacle for a sequel, for a title that already had little chance of getting one (since LN adaptations seldom get anime sequel).
"Drama Queen" would implies that I'm at the very least annoyed by this situation. I'm not. Because I prefer reading books anyway, and I'm used to see LN adaptations being failures.

RDNexus

2016-02-23, 06:09

quigonkenny

2016-02-23, 21:48

"detective loki"?
It already exists.
That's called "matantei loki ragnarok".
It's bad though :p
Ah, I saw that online and read the first few chapters of the manga. It's not bad. Very '90's/early '00's, though. Mostly fluff but a little bit of meat. Darker than the art style would suggest. Don't know about the anime.

But DanMachi Loki is best Loki.

Somethindarker

2016-02-24, 03:19

AP24

2016-02-24, 03:32

There's a theory that anime adaptations of some series were done bad on purpose so that people would buy the original works.

Zefyris

2016-02-24, 05:33

I've actually found two reports about reasons for LN Adaptions being failures, to which I totally agree:
AminoApps: Light Novels' Anime Adaptations (http://www.aminoapps.com/page/anime/1784488/light-novels-anime-adaptations)
Geekorner: LNs are poorly written and adapting them shows that (https://geekorner.wordpress.com/2014/03/19/light-novels-are-poorly-written-and-adapting-them-shows-that/)
The first one has several huge mistake and the person is clearly misinformed, but at least some of his text is correct.
The second one is a pile of crap from the get go. The author doesn't know what a light novel is, never bothered researching, and on top of this dare to judge a work on an amateur translation and call it "poorly written". Furthermore, as if it wasn't bad enough already, he just take random titles for this and assume that hundred of thousands of titles are the same as the two he took.
The real problem of why the LN adaptations are failure is the rental pricing of DVD/BD, the oversatured anime industry nowadays, the fact that they're stuck with mostly japanese audience to gain back their money due to the rental pricing, and that therefore they're dependant of two things
1) A small number of anime otaku buying their BD/DVD. The number is too small. They have to cater to them or everything is lost.
2) subventions from other media publishers paying them to adapt something rather than being (for most studios) able to stand on their own as an independent media.

The 1) will have as a consequences two things: a) LN that can easily cater to the peoples who usually buy BD/DVD will be chosen in priority, those too far away will usually not be adapted. b) LNs that aren't catering enough will either be modified heavily to cater to the audience, be rushed to at least keep the audience interested despite the topic, or fail miserably in sales.

The 2) implies that they're dependant of the good will of the editor to adapt the whole story rather than just limiting the adaptation as a simple advertisement. BEcause usually, the only ones that would benefit from an adaptation longer than the beginning of a story is... The anime studios. If the editor already got the LN sales boost as a result of one cour, then the editor has almost no reason to continue. Now if the anime media in Japan wasn't stuck like this as needing subventions from the LN editors to have enough money to adapt something without risking to go in the red by not catering enough to the low number of DVD/BD buyers, then you would see far more full adaptation.

In other words : stuck in a pricing model stopping them to actively expand internationality and getting "big enough" to survive despite the saturation of the Japanbese anime market each year -> highly dependant on both a low number of buyers' whim as well as other media's whim.
The anime media is, for the most part, unable to stand on its own. This is its hugest flaw. And the LN adaptations are basically the perfect example of its consequences. One cour only, butchered/transformed/rushed, and the like.
Also the monogatari series being adapted fully isn't because the author "realises that his story is better as an anime". Are you kidding me. That was such an idiotic thing to say. The author doesn't even decides if the next volume will be adapted or not to begin with, that's almost only editor side...

RDNexus

2016-02-24, 05:50

Hmm... Interesting. Now, not that I'm doubting you, as your reasoning is totally valid, but from where have you based that reasoning? Curiosity's sake, as usual.

Zefyris

2016-02-24, 06:36

Hmm... Interesting. Now, not that I'm doubting you, as your reasoning is totally valid, but from where have you based that reasoning? Curiosity's sake, as usual.

various article on various subject about the anime industry (and by that I mean serious article, not blogs-like random stuff like the links above) , as well as personal experience and data over the years about various subjects (sales report, and the like), completed by simple logic. I'm afraid I cannot be more precise since I don't have the habit of bookmarking my sources to present them when asked.

RDNexus

2016-02-24, 07:49

Well, it doesn't change the fact that:
- The japanese seeming to have really bad taste in terms of story;
- The first-person view and MC being, at best, self-insert features;
- The girls being more trope and fetish fulfillment than anything else. Or rather, they are simply objectified for the audience's convenience.

Or am I wrong? :upset:

Because those reasons, alongside the japanese market's shortcomings and enclosed ideologies, help to make things not advance to better waters.

Endscape

2016-02-24, 13:14

Now if the anime media in Japan wasn't stuck like this as needing subventions from the LN editors to have enough money to adapt something without risking to go in the red by not catering enough to the low number of DVD/BD buyers, then you would see far more full adaptation.

I agree, but if anime had a bigger market, adaptations would just end up getting more transformed/distorted than even the worst adapted anime is now.

RDNexus

2016-02-24, 13:16

Why do you say that?

Endscape

2016-02-24, 14:52

Because that's what usually happen when works from a niche genre get adaptations geared for a general audience.

That doesn't mean the adaptation will be bad (iZombie, for example is pretty great), but it is what it is.

Shadow5YA

2016-02-24, 15:08

A screw up is a screw up. That was uncalled for, this didn't do anything good, and this is putting a good obstacle for a sequel, for a title that already had little chance of getting one (since LN adaptations seldom get anime sequel).

That's a silly fallacy. Nothing is stopping any studio from ignoring the cliffhanger at the end and continuing onward.

Full Metal Alchemist's 2003 anime didn't prevent a second adaptation from rebooting it entirely to adapt the manga faithfully.

Unless you have more complaints involving the other 11 episodes, dismissing the anime because of one single gripe is fairly childish.

Zefyris

2016-02-24, 19:19

Well, it doesn't change the fact that:
- The japanese seeming to have really bad taste in terms of story;
-Since when the few thousands who buy anime are representative of the peoples who watch anime in japan?
-Since when the peoples who watch anime inJapan are representative of the whole Japan's taste in term of story?
-And since when there was an objective criteria to determine what is good and what is bad in a subjective matter such as taste in art? Who decides what is good and what is bad taste? sorry but this sentence has no meaning.

- The first-person view and MC being, at best, self-insert features;
This is fairly frequent in Japanese novels,f ar more than in western novels. You need to understand that when you switch language for a story, you also switch cultures, references, and writing rules. If I take French rules to build a 'good sentence" as a writer, most well known English writers would be considered complete amateur, maybe even bad at writing. Do that mean that they aren't as good as French authors? Obviously NO. Different language, different writing rules and different traditions. I can tell you that Japanese language's well written sentences gives fairly bad french or English sentences and very bad text flow in our languages if translated withotu adapting.
Without going further in, the first person point of view in Japan's novels seems to NOT be frowned upon as much as in some western countries, and by far.
This isn't especially self insert.

- The girls being more trope and fetish fulfillment than anything else. Or rather, they are simply objectified for the audience's convenience.
That's a problem with the anime media that clearly goes back to what I listed above, this is because the media is dependant on that very little market so they need to catter to that niche market.
Look at monogatari for example. Full of camera angles showing under skirts, boobs moving, and the like. Everything is sexualised. While sexual jokes and ecchi moments exist a little in the monogatari novels, they don't have that kind of permanent sexual tension that the camera tries to give. Takes Danmachi, since it's the right thread. The novel never talk about Hestia's ribons or revealing outfit. THe anime kept doing shots of her giggling breasts.
So yes, the anime media has a huge tendency of playing with fetishes, and objectifying the characters. That is, however, a problem only appearing in the anime adaptations AND a very specific part of the LN media that is easily adapted in anime (hence why we see that kind of things often too).

Because those reasons, alongside the japanese market's shortcomings and enclosed ideologies, help to make things not advance to better waters.
Reason 1 and 2 are incorrect, reason 3 comes from the same problem I talked about earlier.

That's a silly fallacy. Nothing is stopping any studio from ignoring the cliffhanger at the end and continuing onward.

Full Metal Alchemist's 2003 anime didn't prevent a second adaptation from rebooting it entirely to adapt the manga faithfully.

Unless you have more complaints involving the other 11 episodes, dismissing the anime because of one single gripe is fairly childish.

The silly thing is your example. Comparing FMA to a LN. Saying that because a very popular manga was able to get a full reboot any other title can get one if necessary. FMA got a 52 episodes long series in its first series. That's 4 times the length of what NGNL got. How can you even think that the comparison is valid.
Studios CAN ignore the way the first series has ended, yes. But they cannot ignore the fact that they will have to end a second series exactly with the SAME SCENE that the first series ended with, and that this WILL cause discontent among anime watchers. In other words, this screw up is diminishing quite a bit the incentive for another studio to take back that adaptation and do a second season. Yes it's doable. I never said the contrary. BUT. That's basically having to clean up the mess that your predecessor made. And that's neither agreeable, nor a good omen for your sales. So this is a screw up, and this is impacting the possibility of a second season.
And yes, I have complaints about other episodes as well. The first volume was very nicely adapted, but it became worse and worse in the following episodes.

RDNexus

2016-02-24, 20:51

Fine, let us put all of the shortcomings inside a cultural point of view.
It doesn't change the fact that Anime Adaptions seem to have gone to worse in general because of that. From a western point of view in general, I guess.

quigonkenny

2016-02-24, 22:43

That's a problem with the anime media that clearly goes back to what I listed above, this is because the media is dependant on that very little market so they need to catter to that niche market.
Look at monogatari for example. Full of camera angles showing under skirts, boobs moving, and the like. Everything is sexualised. While sexual jokes and ecchi moments exist a little in the monogatari novels, they don't have that kind of permanent sexual tension that the camera tries to give. Takes Danmachi, since it's the right thread. The novel never talk about Hestia's ribons or revealing outfit. THe anime kept doing shots of her giggling breasts.
So yes, the anime media has a huge tendency of playing with fetishes, and objectifying the characters. That is, however, a problem only appearing in the anime adaptations AND a very specific part of the LN media that is easily adapted in anime (hence why we see that kind of things often too).
Not arguing Monogatari, but I've got to wonder if you've even read the DanMachi LNs. Bell (or the narrator/whoever the POV character is at the moment) mentions Hestia's prodigious bosom about every other time she comes up, and there are several scenes where the "jiggling" ("giggling" is laughing) of her (and others') breasts is specifically mentioned. Her character design for the anime—ribbons and all—is taken right from the light novel illustrations. And that's only what I've gathered from the first two volumes. Anime may have a lot of fetishy content, but what do you expect? It's a visual medium. Any visual aspect of the original story is going to be more pronounced.

The silly thing is your example. Comparing FMA to a LN. Saying that because a very popular manga was able to get a full reboot any other title can get one if necessary. FMA got a 52 episodes long series in its first series. That's 4 times the length of what NGNL got. How can you even think that the comparison is valid.
Studios CAN ignore the way the first series has ended, yes. But they cannot ignore the fact that they will have to end a second series exactly with the SAME SCENE that the first series ended with, and that this WILL cause discontent among anime watchers. In other words, this screw up is diminishing quite a bit the incentive for another studio to take back that adaptation and do a second season. Yes it's doable. I never said the contrary. BUT. That's basically having to clean up the mess that your predecessor made. And that's neither agreeable, nor a good omen for your sales. So this is a screw up, and this is impacting the possibility of a second season.
And yes, I have complaints about other episodes as well. The first volume was very nicely adapted, but it became worse and worse in the following episodes.
I can't believe you or anyone would get this upset over literally the last minute or two of the last episode, especially when it's so easily resolved. Did you miss the fact that this series is a comedy? Repeating a scene, especially if the first iteration is given a comic resolution, is at worst a failed joke, and might end up being an improvement, both in humor and, if they do it right, in plot development. It won't keep anyone from tuning in, unless they were already bent on not doing so, and I imagine there would be a fair number of fans of the original LN who would be even more likely to tune in just to see how they resolve it.

AP24

2016-03-04, 23:26

We'll have more detail on the OVA from the Gangan GA festival tomorrow.

quigonkenny

2016-03-05, 17:51

Crossing my fingers for a Sword Oratoria adaptation announcement.

EDIT: Just realized that both the mangas are available for free (latest chapter or two plus first chapter) online in Japanese at the official site (Gangan Online), in an HTML5 reader. Cool. Resolution isn't quite up to what I've come to expect from official online sources, but then again, Gangan is also selling the Danmachi mangas in a periodical, whereas YJ's OPM website, for instance, is the only official Japanese way to get the manga until tankoubons are released.

AP24

2016-03-06, 02:12

Someone at the Gangan GA festival said Sword Oratoria anime was announced!!
This better not be a troll, waiting for official news.

Somethindarker

2016-03-06, 02:58

Someone at the Gangan GA festival said Sword Oratoria anime was announced!!
This better not be a troll, waiting for official news.

Yea until it's officially announced by the publisher or studio I won't believe anything every festival we get "news" that some random anime has been announced I remember it happened with Index III, Rokujyouma II even fucking Full Metal Panic like 4 years ago. So unless it's officially announced by them take those with a grain of salt. Personally I doubt it, it's extremely rare for a spinoff with inferior sales(last I checked) to get an adaptation, especially when an OVA for the main series got announced(I think), I mean rumor has it Index III is gonna get announced at the end of Heavy Object but I'm skeptical because JC Staff.

AP24

2016-03-06, 03:14

Yea until it's officially announced by the publisher or studio I won't believe anything every festival we get "news" that some random anime has been announced I remember it happened with Index III, Rokujyouma II even fucking Full Metal Panic like 4 years ago. So unless it's officially announced by them take those with a grain of salt. Personally I doubt it, it's extremely rare for a spinoff with inferior sales(last I checked) to get an adaptation, especially when an OVA for the main series got announced(I think), I mean rumor has it Index III is gonna get announced at the end of Heavy Object but I'm skeptical because JC Staff.

Actually Sword Oratoria is selling well, above 50k per volume maybe even close to 100k. Perhaps they're hoping anime adaptation of Sword Oratoria will cause sales to be above 100k per volume like the main volumes.

Also, a lot of people who went there have tweeted the same thing so Sword Oratoria is pretty much officially confirmed!!!

quigonkenny

2016-03-06, 06:22

And confirmed (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-03-06/is-it-wrong-to-try-to-pick-up-girls-in-a-dungeon-sword-oratoria-spinoff-novels-get-tv-anime/.99473). Officially (http://ga.sbcr.jp/sp/AIS/). Now we just wait to see when and how many episodes it gets.

I, for one, welcome our new flat-chested trickster goddess overlord...

Methinks it's about time for DanMachi to get its own subforum, as well. Having two separate but related properties get anime adaptations should qualify it.

Somethindarker

2016-03-06, 06:37

And confirmed (http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2016-03-06/is-it-wrong-to-try-to-pick-up-girls-in-a-dungeon-sword-oratoria-spinoff-novels-get-tv-anime/.99473). Officially. Now we just wait to see when and how many episodes it gets.

Methinks it's about time for DanMachi to get its own subforum, as well. Having two separate but related properties get anime adaptations should qualify it.

Well now that's interesting.

Personally I don't think it needs a subforum maybe if the novels were in the 15+ volume mark and we've pretty much discussed every little thing to death already. The anime forum is good to contain the new questions and this thread is good for new releases etc;

Zefyris

2016-03-06, 07:12

SO should be more "anime friendly" so it could give something quite entertaining as a result.

I can't believe you or anyone would get this upset over literally the last minute or two of the last episode, especially when it's so easily resolved. Did you miss the fact that this series is a comedy? Repeating a scene, especially if the first iteration is given a comic resolution, is at worst a failed joke, and might end up being an improvement, both in humor and, if they do it right, in plot development. It won't keep anyone from tuning in, unless they were already bent on not doing so, and I imagine there would be a fair number of fans of the original LN who would be even more likely to tune in just to see how they resolve it.

Who told you I was upset? I'm not even a fan of NGNL. And since I'm a novel reader before anything else, I couldn't care less about never seeing a second season for NGNL you know. I'm simply stating fact. They made it harder for anyone to do a second season for no logical reasons. Is anything in your post saying otherwise? No. So they made it harder. For no gain whatsoever. There is no positive consequences from it, only negatives one. That's called screwing up. Plain and simple.

Not arguing Monogatari, but I've got to wonder if you've even read the DanMachi LNs. Bell (or the narrator/whoever the POV character is at the moment) mentions Hestia's prodigious bosom about every other time she comes up, and there are several scenes where the "jiggling" ("giggling" is laughing) of her (and others') breasts is specifically mentioned. Her character design for the anime—ribbons and all—is taken right from the light novel illustrations. And that's only what I've gathered from the first two volumes. Anime may have a lot of fetishy content, but what do you expect? It's a visual medium. Any visual aspect of the original story is going to be more pronounced.
I've read it, thanks. Probably more than you, as well, since I'm up to date (but maybe you are too~).
A physical part of someone being mentioned isn't fanservice to me. IF she's big breasted then mentioning her bosom during a description of her is logical.
The ribons is from the illustrations, yes, but never ever get mentioned in the novels. We couldn't be further away from the buzz it made with the anime. YEs anime has a lot of fetishy content. I'm glad you admit it. And they choose to remove important scenes and explanations to add /keep them even though they were not necessary to the plot. Being a visual content doesn't mean that you need to have big breasts jiggling (thanks for the correction btw) in front of the camera so many times.

AP24

2016-03-06, 08:04

It actually makes more sense to make Sword Oratoria anime than DanMachi second season anime. Sword Oratoria also had boost in LN sales thanks to the DanMachi first season anime but it still hasn't sold as much as the main volumes. At this point making DanMachi second season anime won't make a lot of money but Sword Oratoria can.

Sword Oratoria anime should air during Summer or Fall season. Maybe second season will be announced next year.

Sparteh

2016-03-06, 08:40

Could someone summarize romantic development in the volumes which were not adapted?

Zefyris

2016-03-06, 09:24

Could someone summarize romantic development in the volumes which were not adapted?

-Finn ask Lili in marriage. Lili choose to remain with Bell and refuses.
-Welf becomes more active/assertive toward his love target. Said love target is quite pleased by it but do not show it in front of him.
-Hestia confirms directly that Ais has absolutely NO romantic feeling toward Bell by the end of volume 8 (Since Hestia is a god that's 100% truth as she can see through any mortal's lies). Since Ais doesn't really appear in volume 9, no romantic feelings up to the current volume.
-Since Bell's rare skill still works, no change for his feelings toward Ais
-However Hestia managed on her end to make Bell changes his opinion about being in love with a God. Making him understand that gods are okay with having their loved one die far before them as a consequence of immortality and so on. Bell has a hard time accepting this at first, saying that such relationship would only bring out sadness for the immortal one (similar to what holo was saying in spice & wolf actually). HE acknowledge that it's a possibility by the end of volume 8. Meaning that Hestia is actually having some success in opening the possibility of a relationship between her and Bell. Bell still is in love with Ais though.
-Mikoto is trying to have Takemikazuchi look at her as a woman. To the disappointment of everyone around, he's so much into thinking of them as his children that he doesn't see it. Although Mikoto manages to get a little promise from him that please her, the intent of Takemikazuchi behind that promise has nothing to do with romance lol.
-Haruhime kind of fell in love with Bell.
-Aisha thinks that Bell's genetics would be good material for children, and kind of want to rape him in order to have that genetic material :p. She even proposed to join Hestia familia, to the horror of Hestia herself. I'm not taking you in, Bell's chastity would be in danger!" :heh:
-Tione has no real success with Finn. FOr a very simple reason. It's not that Finn doesn't understand Tione's feelings, but Finn's whole life has been devoted toward a goal that would be for naught if he were to choose Tione as a partner. He seems to feel really sorry for her (as well as being frightened by her jealousy lol, even "Braver" himself run away in such case :heh:.
-Several peoples in love with Eina but to no avail. It seems like she's never really considered Bell as a potential boyfriend before, mainly being like that toward him like she was like that toward the previous adventurers she was in charge of (said adventurers fell in love with her though xD ). Some events makes Eina think about Bell differently, to her surprise/confusion. She doesn't really seem like she's going to go that route though.
-To the annoyance of Allen Fromel, Syr continues to go toward Bell. No real development, but Bell learns a bit more about Syr.
-Asufi is having a hard time with Hermes, as usual. She really didn't choose an easy love target.
-Tiona has still no love target. LEfiya is still somehow into Ais
-Bete is still in love with Ais but has no success so far. Although he quite redeemed himself in her eyes ImO? That guy was heroic, no doubt about it.

I think that's it? Or did I forgot someone?

Sparteh

2016-03-06, 09:41

-Finn ask Lili in marriage. Lili choose to remain with Bell and refuses.
-Welf becomes more active/assertive toward his love target. Said love target is quite pleased by it but do not show it in front of him.
-Hestia confirms directly that Ais has absolutely NO romantic feeling toward Bell by the end of volume 8 (Since Hestia is a god that's 100% truth as she can see through any mortal's lies). Since Ais doesn't really appear in volume 9, no romantic feelings up to the current volume.
-Since Bell's rare skill still works, no change for his feelings toward Ais
-However Hestia managed on her end to make Bell changes his opinion about being in love with a God. Making him understand that gods are okay with having their loved one die far before them as a consequence of immortality and so on. Bell has a hard time accepting this at first, saying that such relationship would only bring out sadness for the immortal one (similar to what holo was saying in spice & wolf actually). HE acknowledge that it's a possibility by the end of volume 8. Meaning that Hestia is actually having some success in opening the possibility of a relationship between her and Bell. Bell still is in love with Ais though.
-Mikoto is trying to have Takemikazuchi look at her as a woman. To the disappointment of everyone around, he's so much into thinking of them as his children that he doesn't see it. Although Mikoto manages to get a little promise from him that please her, the intent of Takemikazuchi behind that promise has nothing to do with romance lol.
-Haruhime kind of fell in love with Bell.
-Aisha thinks that Bell's genetics would be good material for children, and kind of want to rape him in order to have that genetic material :p. She even proposed to join Hestia familia, to the horror of Hestia herself. I'm not taking you in, Bell's chastity would be in danger!" :heh:
-Tione has no real success with Finn. FOr a very simple reason. It's not that Finn doesn't understand Tione's feelings, but Finn's whole life has been devoted toward a goal that would be for naught if he were to choose Tione as a partner. He seems to feel really sorry for her (as well as being frightened by her jealousy lol, even "Braver" himself run away in such case :heh:.
-Several peoples in love with Eina but to no avail. It seems like she's never really considered Bell as a potential boyfriend before, mainly being like that toward him like she was like that toward the previous adventurers she was in charge of (said adventurers fell in love with her though xD ). Some events makes Eina think about Bell differently, to her surprise/confusion. She doesn't really seem like she's going to go that route though.
-To the annoyance of Allen Fromel, Syr continues to go toward Bell. No real development, but Bell learns a bit more about Syr.
-Asufi is having a hard time with Hermes, as usual. She really didn't choose an easy love target.
-Tiona has still no love target. LEfiya is still somehow into Ais
-Bete is still in love with Ais but has no success so far. Although he quite redeemed himself in her eyes ImO? That guy was heroic, no doubt about it.

I think that's it? Or did I forgot someone?

Thanks. That was much more than I expected. First volumes felt simply as characters loving brick walls... Good to find out that there is some sort of progress.

Kuroageha

2016-03-06, 09:43

Saw it coming miles away.

Lhklan

2016-03-06, 10:11

Kuroageha

2016-03-06, 10:46

It's obvious who is.

Zefyris

2016-03-06, 11:06

What about Ryu? Also who's Welf's target? (Not quite up do date sorry

And this might just be me but I think it's less "Ais have no romantic feeling toward Bell" and more "Ais is emotionally stunted so she doesn't understand love this no romantic feeling yet"
Ryu Afaik has no love target? From what I've seen, at least. No development about anything of the sort either- I think?
Welf has good taste so he's obviously goingafter the best goddess out there.
http://i.imgur.com/93ZmXas.png
And for Ais, sorry but no. She understand the idea of being a couple. And she doesn't consider Bell as a potential partner at all. As I said, you can't hide anything from a god. If there was even a tiny bit of feeling toward him in Ais right now, she would have discerned it EVEN if Ais wasn't able to discern it herself.

Somethindarker

2016-03-06, 18:30

Ryu Afaik has no love target? From what I've seen, at least. No development about anything of the sort either- I think?

If I remember correctly she has SOME feelings for Bell but last I read she was exploring those feelings since she doesn't know what they are, hell even I don't know what they are. All we know is that she respects Bell, she doesn't feel repulsed when he touches her and wants to be around him.

And for Ais, sorry but no. She understand the idea of being a couple. And she doesn't consider Bell as a potential partner at all. As I said, you can't hide anything from a god. If there was even a tiny bit of feeling toward him in Ais right now, she would have discerned it EVEN if Ais wasn't able to discern it herself.

This is why I started to dislike(dislike is a strong word but I don't hate her more like find her annoying) Ais, personally I'm not a fan these kind of autistic characters who are a blank slate. Especially when the entire point of them(most of the time) is that they're guarding their true feelings over that shell of autism. In the main series, sure, it's forgivable since she's not the stories focus and it makes her somewhat curious but then I read S.O. and was very disappointed in it I dropped it mid volume 2 or 3 which I've never done.

quigonkenny

2016-03-07, 02:08

Ryu Afaik has no love target? From what I've seen, at least. No development about anything of the sort either- I think?
Welf has good taste so he's obviously goingafter the best goddess out there.
http://i.imgur.com/93ZmXas.png
And for Ais, sorry but no. She understand the idea of being a couple. And she doesn't consider Bell as a potential partner at all. As I said, you can't hide anything from a god. If there was even a tiny bit of feeling toward him in Ais right now, she would have discerned it EVEN if Ais wasn't able to discern it herself.
WelfxHeph OTP

As for Ais, that's either bias from whatever ship you sail (BellxHestia by the sound of it) clouding your perceptions or her feelings have changed since the early volumes, since there is clearly some kind of love for Bell present in Ais even through the officially translated LNs and the SO manga. She may not recognize it for what it is, which might be fouling up Hestia's love radar (or Hestia may be fouling up her own love radar, which sounds like something she would do), and it may not be purely romantic, but it's there.

And Ryuu clearly has feelings for Bell. No way he flusters her like that just because she doesn't want to get in Syr's way. That wouldn't even come to mind if she didn't have feelings for him. There's also the whole letting him touch her thing.

Full disclosure: I ship harem ending, so far as I ship, which isn't much. Leaves you too dismissive of the clues the author gives that don't fit your wishes.

AceTrigger

2016-03-08, 04:02

The results from the Main Couple poll is out and the short story of a date with Bell goes to...

http://bookwalker.jp/ex/sp/danmachi-deai/?adpcnt=7qM_Vsb0

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 05:36

Wow, I was persuaded it would be Ais, that's a surprise.

And Ryuu clearly has feelings for Bell. No way he flusters her like that just because she doesn't want to get in Syr's way. That wouldn't even come to mind if she didn't have feelings for him. There's also the whole letting him touch her thing.

Full disclosure: I ship harem ending, so far as I ship, which isn't much. Leaves you too dismissive of the clues the author gives that don't fit your wishes.

I don't see it like that. She's simply really trusting him, and opened to him. This may turn into a romance later,but just like Ais, it's not the case right now.

This is why I started to dislike(dislike is a strong word but I don't hate her more like find her annoying) Ais, personally I'm not a fan these kind of autistic characters who are a blank slate. Especially when the entire point of them(most of the time) is that they're guarding their true feelings over that shell of autism. In the main series, sure, it's forgivable since she's not the stories focus and it makes her somewhat curious but then I read S.O. and was very disappointed in it I dropped it mid volume 2 or 3 which I've never done.

So just because the girl doesn't like the MC, she's autistic and you dislike her/find her annoying? Like what, since when a female character loved by the MC doesn't have any right to not like the MC and not see him as a potential partner?

She has good reason to not see him as a potential partner. Just like Finn is rejecting Tione for good reason, for Ais, Bell doesn't fit the requirement for being her partner. And those requirement are, just like Finn, linked to her goal, something she's been aiming at most of her life,putting her life on the line as soon as when she was 7 years old, for it.
It's not to Ais to change her opinion on Bell. It's up to Bell to change himself to fill the requirements. He's trying hard to fill them, so just give him the time for this one.

And BTW, Bell is not the only one trying to fit those requirements. Bete has been trying very hard seen a far longer time. And if we're only looking under the angle of "trying hard to be a proper partner for Ais", I would say that Bete currently deserves Ais more than Bell on that point.

RDNexus

2016-03-08, 05:53

Zefyris, could you PM me about those goals of Ais & Finn? Curiosity's sake.

kaikalaila

2016-03-08, 07:03

Welf have fine taste in woman and she better not drag it too long or else Bell will win the Welf bowl.

The results from the Main Couple poll is out and the short story of a date with Bell goes to...

Oh wow!!

Ryu leads with 3 times the points of Hestia pairing

quigonkenny

2016-03-08, 08:06

So just because the girl doesn't like the MC, she's autistic and you dislike her/find her annoying? Like what, since when a female character loved by the MC doesn't have any right to not like the MC and not see him as a potential partner?
That's not what anyone is saying. He's pretty clearly railing against the idea of Ais "autistically" not understanding her existing feelings for Bell as an artificial plot device to delay relationship development. At least that's how I see it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, Somethindarker)

You're the only one I see suggesting that she has no feelings for him at all, and even you seem to leave the possibility of things open in the future (which would pretty much require some kind of spark to be present now).

RDNexus

2016-03-08, 08:12

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 08:36

That's not what anyone is saying. He's pretty clearly railing against the idea of Ais "autistically" not understanding her existing feelings for Bell as an artificial plot device to delay relationship development. At least that's how I see it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, Somethindarker)

You're the only one I see suggesting that she has no feelings for him at all, and even you seem to leave the possibility of things open in the future (which would pretty much require some kind of spark to be present now).

She doesn't see him asa male partner because it would go against her life goal. So even if she were to start to have some feeling, she would brush them off immediately as being a hindrance. You don't understand that do you. That's the exact same reaso nas to why Finn cannot accept Tione as a partner.
If Bell manages to fit the conditions,then Ais will have no reason to see him that way. Until then, there is no reasons for Ais to have any feeling. For Ais, her goal is everything. She wagered her life for this since she was 7 years old. For Ais, Bell is basically a cute animal (rabbit~) that she wants to protect, as well as a mysterious answer to the enigma of " how to become stronger quickly" which makes her want to know more about him.
But a partner? Bete pointed it out right from volume 1 and Ais acknowledged that he was right. Currently, Bell doesn't have AT ALL the necessary requirement to become a part of Ais' life as a partner. Someone that she protects cannot be such partner.
There is no artificial plot device in that case. Ais is aware of the possibility of having a partner since the first volume, so she isn't "unaware" or "autistic" about those kind of things. Just like Finn, someone who doesn't fit the requirements cannot become her life partner.

bones

2016-03-08, 08:37

I watched the series and I follow the Manga, and from what I've seen it seems Ais, from time to time, seems to react a little to Bell and his actions, so the spark has already been planted inside her. Now Bell only has to strive onwards to make that spark turn into a strong flame :D

The problem here that in order for Bell to succeed he has to get past two goddesses. No matter how strong Bell gets he's never going to get anywhere with those two running interference.

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 08:42

The problem here that in order for Bell to succeed he has to get past two goddesses. No matter how strong Bell gets he's never going to get anywhere with those two running interference.

the main problem isn't even that. It's that in order to get Ais look at him as a potential partner, he first needs to reach at the very least her level. As long as he naanot do that, she won't acknowledge him as a potential life partner.
Even with such a cheat-like ability for leveling up quickly, that's no small feat. Especially since he cannot even go deep in the dungeon since his teammates cannot evolve as fast as him and that going alone in floors fitting your own level is close to suicide (except for Ottarl and Ais..)

Kuroageha

2016-03-08, 08:58

The results from the Main Couple poll is out and the short story of a date with Bell goes to...

http://bookwalker.jp/ex/sp/danmachi-deai/?adpcnt=7qM_Vsb0

Nothing to be surprised.

I followed the voting for a time.
It might not look like it but Ryu always had her fandom so once she started getting votes she, Ais and Hestia got around the same number of voting.l more than the others.

If course, that mean the vote spamming would start at some point and mainly came from Ais spamming.

I said fuck it and when to Brazilian and other Latino sites and told them to register on Book Walker and to vote for best elf.

Nishaven

2016-03-08, 09:12

@Zefyris could you tell what exactly is Ais' life goal?

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 10:48

Hestia has never been the most popular girl on the LN side, that's anime only anyway.

@Zefyris could you tell what exactly is Ais' life goal?

To copy paste the answer I made for xrick

Finn has devoted his whole life to restore the pride of his race, and the faith in themselves.
As a reminder, Pallum historically believed in a Pallum goddess who was pretty much a heroic type of god. She was an inspiration to them all. But when 1,000 years ago gods came down on Earth, they discovered that this was a "fake god" as she wasn't existing. This hurt them deeply and they never ever managed to came back from it. Pallum history has no hero, no one to be proud off since then. Pallum just live without it, without pride, without anything to get the inspiration from. This race is close to an empty shell.

So Finn Deimne wanted to become someone his whole race could look up to, a Hero that they could be proud off, that they could aspire to reach, proving that Pallum race has its own heroic and inspiring feats as well.
And look at the result. Level 6, so in the top 10 of the most powerful warriors of the world, leader of one of the top 2 families in the the world, and gods even gave him the nickname "Braver". There is no Pallum who doesn't know who he is. And most of the rest of the world has heard his name and nickname as well.

But Finn's goal doesn't stop here. He wants his act/Deeds to remain in Pallum's hearts from now on, to bring back from the empty husk his race has become the proud and brave race of Pallum he dreams off.
And as such, he's searching a female pallum who is brave, to have children who will continue his name. And Pallum children. That's why he feels sorry for Tione but cannot accept her love. A children from an Amazoness will always be Amazoness. He needs a Pallum wife, someone brave, and needs pallum children with her.
He's 40 years old but haven't managed that part of his goal yet.

He found in Liliruca someone who was fitting. Despite her past, Liliruca is exceptionally brave (especially for a Pallum) even ready to throw away her life for her companions.
That's why he asked her in marriage.

For Ais, we don't know a lot, but it's related to something in her past when she was really little (before becoming an adventurer). She seems to have someone she wants to catch up to. Who? His father? Someone else? For what purpose? Defeating someone or something that even that person didn't manage to kill (like, that black dragon?) ? We don't know. What is sure is, her will to throw her life in danger is due to her will to become stronger and stronger to reach that person, and the fact that she interested herself to Bell was because she wanted to know how was he managing to become stronger that fast, and with such high stats.
As for her companion, as Bete pointed out as soon as the beginning of volume 1,she cannot accept anyone than someone able to walk with her side by side, able to go where she's going. So an equal, at the very least. She dedicated her life to her goal , and cannot see anyone else but someone able to walk with her toward her goal as a partner. Someone that she protects cannot be that. She protected a lot Bell, an as such, he cannot be such a partner as long as he's being protected. Bell understand this somehow, and that's why he refused to be saved against the Minotaurus.

So if you want to know exactly then I'm afraid it hasn't been explained yet. We however know enough to understand that she has devoted her life to that goal, and that reaching that goal involve being even higher level than her current level. And we know enough as well to understand that the only partner she can acknowledge is someone who can go side by side with her, so someone that is a target to be protected doesn't answer this at all. As long as Bel cannot catch up with Ais, he cannot be viewed as a possible partner from her. Just like Finn, that goal is dictating her whole action, and is stronger than anything else. Anything hindering it is NOT welcome.

quigonkenny

2016-03-08, 11:07

Dual Blades

2016-03-08, 11:13

Hestia has never been the most popular girl on the LN side, that's anime only anyway.

To copy paste the answer I made for xrick

Finn has devoted his whole life to restore the pride of his race, and the faith in themselves.
As a reminder, Pallum historically believed in a Pallum goddess who was pretty much a heroic type of god. She was an inspiration to them all. But when 1,000 years ago gods came down on Earth, they discovered that this was a "fake god" as she wasn't existing. This hurt them deeply and they never ever managed to came back from it. Pallum history has no hero, no one to be proud off since then. Pallum just live without it, without pride, without anything to get the inspiration from. This race is close to an empty shell.

So Finn Deimne wanted to become someone his whole race could look up to, a Hero that they could be proud off, that they could aspire to reach, proving that Pallum race has its own heroic and inspiring feats as well.
And look at the result. Level 6, so in the top 10 of the most powerful warriors of the world, leader of one of the top 2 families in the the world, and gods even gave him the nickname "Braver". There is no Pallum who doesn't know who he is. And most of the rest of the world has heard his name and nickname as well.

But Finn's goal doesn't stop here. He wants his act/Deeds to remain in Pallum's hearts from now on, to bring back from the empty husk his race has become the proud and brave race of Pallum he dreams off.
And as such, he's searching a female pallum who is brave, to have children who will continue his name. And Pallum children. That's why he feels sorry for Tione but cannot accept her love. A children from an Amazoness will always be Amazoness. He needs a Pallum wife, someone brave, and needs pallum children with her.
He's 40 years old but haven't managed that part of his goal yet.

He found in Liliruca someone who was fitting. Despite her past, Liliruca is exceptionally brave (especially for a Pallum) even ready to throw away her life for her companions.
That's why he asked her in marriage.

For Ais, we don't know a lot, but it's related to something in her past when she was really little (before becoming an adventurer). She seems to have someone she wants to catch up to. Who? His father? Someone else? For what purpose? Defeating someone or something that even that person didn't manage to kill (like, that black dragon?) ? We don't know. What is sure is, her will to throw her life in danger is due to her will to become stronger and stronger to reach that person, and the fact that she interested herself to Bell was because she wanted to know how was he managing to become stronger that fast, and with such high stats.
As for her companion, as Bete pointed out as soon as the beginning of volume 1,she cannot accept anyone than someone able to walk with her side by side, able to go where she's going. So an equal, at the very least. She dedicated her life to her goal , and cannot see anyone else but someone able to walk with her toward her goal as a partner. Someone that she protects cannot be that. She protected a lot Bell, an as such, he cannot be such a partner as long as he's being protected. Bell understand this somehow, and that's why he refused to be saved against the Minotaurus.

So if you want to know exactly then I'm afraid it hasn't been explained yet. We however know enough to understand that she has devoted her life to that goal, and that reaching that goal involve being even higher level than her current level. And we know enough as well to understand that the only partner she can acknowledge is someone who can go side by side with her, so someone that is a target to be protected doesn't answer this at all. As long as Bel cannot catch up with Ais, he cannot be viewed as a possible partner from her. Just like Finn, that goal is dictating her whole action, and is stronger than anything else. Anything hindering it is NOT welcome.

Interesting, well in a way Bell's goal and Ais' are similar, perhaps (likely) Bell will achieve Ais' or help her achieve her goal, thus fulfilling his goal ( since to help her he has to catch up first)

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 11:18

The facts of that may all be true regarding Ais, but it speaks more to her denying her feelings for Bell than not having them. It's cliché, but the heart wants what the heart wants. The head gets a say, but it's not always the final say.

And I disagree somewhat on Bell's motivation for not being saved by Ais against Ottarl's minotaur. That was as much for his own feeling of worthiness as it was for his perception of what Ais would want, if not more. He can't catch Ais—something we can all agree is something he wants—if she's always saving him. And from what I've heard of the novels after what the anime adapted, she hasn't had to since.
You cannot have romantic feelings for someone you don't see as a potential target for romantic feelings. That's the so funnily named 'friendzone" here. Basically Bell isn't in a place where he can't be viewed as a potential partner for her.
No matter how much you like your pet rabbit, you don't want to marry that rabbit or have sex with it (well I hope you don't. You don't, right?).

That's why Hestia is correct. She's a god and therefore isn't mistaken on people's feelings when talking to them. It's not simply that Ais is unaware of her own feelings. As of volume 9, Ais has no romantic feelings for Bell. YET.

For the Minotaurus scene, look back at what Bell said and thought at that time. And at the fact that he want to catch up with her. And at the fact that Bete put 'and rightfully) in his mind right from volume 1 that someone who is weak and need to be saved isn't worthy of being her partner at all. Bete usually is very rude but very spot on. Basically what you're saying is more or like the same, btw. He acknowledge that to stand a chance for being Ais' partner, he needs to catch to her and stop being saved by her. And that's why he refused the help. So Bell is truly aware of his current situation with Ais.

NeutralZero

2016-03-08, 12:32

That couple rank... to think the loli goddess wasn't able to get into the top three spot...
so Ais ship is pretty much anchored until Bell is considered as an equal...
but what is Bell's current level? and how far is it before Bell achive his goal to reach Ais?

The Green One

2016-03-08, 14:01

As of the current novel, I'm fairly sure he's still level 3.

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 14:50

He is still level 3 indeed. And in a pinch to level up because he's the only level 3 in his group and considering the rest of his group doesn't have his cheat ability to quickly rise their stats, that's not going to change before a few years except if they recruit someone higher level (Aisha proposed to join but Hestia almost had a syncope at the sheer idea of it happening).
So they cannot go into floor 25 and lower to encounter level 3 creatures, let alone level 4 ones. The lowest they went is floor 20 or 21 (by volume 9), don't remember which one it was, but they already almost wiped due to a pack of monsters (killer wasps iirc) from floor 24 which irregularly came to a higher floor than the one what they're supposed to be.
So reaching level 4 should be... fairly problematic.

Their only hope is to do joint raid parties with other friendly familia. If they can organize this ona regular basis with Ouka and Chigusa (already being done I think?) and with the two new level 2 from the Miach familia (a shame Mikoto had a really bad timing and they went to Miach familia rather than Hestia's, those two, they're very experienced in raid for level 2...) to form a party with enough number to go to floor 25 and below.

Sparteh

2016-03-08, 14:57

Zefyris, I am asking this one on behalf of one guy I know who loves this LN.

"If you had to predict the ending, do you think it will end in solo girl or a true harem way?"

Zefyris

2016-03-08, 15:03

Zefyris, I am asking this one on behalf of one guy I know who loves this LN.

"If you had to predict the ending, do you think it will end in solo girl or a true harem way?"
I'm bad at predicting this stuff, but I would say solo.
The author actually seems to take the time to provide an alternative (and most ofthe time fairly good one to boot) to most of those girls.

Wandering Soul

2016-03-08, 15:04

The results from the Main Couple poll is out and the short story of a date with Bell goes to...

http://bookwalker.jp/ex/sp/danmachi-deai/?adpcnt=7qM_Vsb0

I'm not surprised about that. I'm actually glad that she won.

Sparteh

2016-03-08, 15:51

I'm bad at predicting this stuff, but I would say solo.
The author actually seems to take the time to provide an alternative (and most ofthe time fairly good one to boot) to most of those girls.

Your prediction made the person who requested me to ask this happy, and me sad.
The most obvious choice for single heroine ending is the girl I dislike the most in this story...

KnightShade

2016-03-08, 15:59

Your prediction made the person who requested me to ask this happy, and me sad.
The most obvious choice for single heroine ending is the girl I dislike the most in this story...

the guy who runs the wiki, angelo galbrini, was asked the same hypothetical and said otherwise. sure at the end of the day no one knows, but given that i know the guy has first hand info on the series, evident of all the summaries and translation corrections he's posted on the wiki (being a direct japanese reader certainly helps), i wouldn't get your hopes down just yet.

besides, v8 pretty much made the concept of a harem very justifiable, in spite of what aiz fans want to believe.

Sparteh

2016-03-08, 16:34

the guy who runs the wiki, angelo galbrini, was asked the same hypothetical and said otherwise. sure at the end of the day no one knows, but given that i know the guy has first hand info on the series, evident of all the summaries and translation corrections he's posted on the wiki (being a direct japanese reader certainly helps), i'd would get your hopes down just yet.

besides, v8 pretty much made the concept of a harem very justifiable, in spite of what aiz fans want to believe.

Personally I am not huge fan of this LN. It is OK, but definitely not one of my favorites. That's why the only hope I have is that we have a conclusive ending instead of open one.

Though I am interest what do you mean what happened in v8 to make you say that.

KnightShade

2016-03-08, 16:40

Personally I am not huge fan of this LN. It is OK, but definitely not one of my favorites. That's why the only hope I have is that we have a conclusive ending instead of open one.

Though I am interest what do you mean what happened in v8 to make you say that.

more or less what zefy already said about aiz's stance in v8, but also
the whole hestia getting bell to not be afraid about loving a goddess business, while he still uses realis phrase because of aiz. this on top of the increasing relevance of characters like ryuu, syr ect.

Kuroageha

2016-03-08, 20:36

The facts of that may all be true regarding Ais, but it speaks more to her denying her feelings for Bell than not having them. It's cliché, but the heart wants what the heart wants. The head gets a say, but it's not always the final say.

And I disagree somewhat on Bell's motivation for not being saved by Ais against Ottarl's minotaur. That was as much for his own feeling of worthiness as it was for his perception of what Ais would want, if not more. He can't catch Ais—something we can all agree is something he wants—if she's always saving him. And from what I've heard of the novels after what the anime adapted, she hasn't had to since.

Dude, she can't deny what she doesn't has.

Also, Aiz didn't save him as of late, because Bete saved him instead.

That couple rank... to think the loli goddess wasn't able to get into the top three spot...
so Ais ship is pretty much anchored until Bell is considered as an equal...
but what is Bell's current level? and how far is it before Bell achive his goal to reach Ais?
Vote spamming is quite the sight always.

Also if there is someone
He is still level 3 indeed. And in a pinch to level up because he's the only level 3 in his group and considering the rest of his group doesn't have his cheat ability to quickly rise their stats, that's not going to change before a few years except if they recruit someone higher level (Aisha proposed to join but Hestia almost had a syncope at the sheer idea of it happening).
So they cannot go into floor 25 and lower to encounter level 3 creatures, let alone level 4 ones. The lowest they went is floor 20 or 21 (by volume 9), don't remember which one it was, but they already almost wiped due to a pack of monsters (killer wasps iirc) from floor 24 which irregularly came to a higher floor than the one what they're supposed to be.
So reaching level 4 should be... fairly problematic.

Their only hope is to do joint raid parties with other friendly familia. If they can organize this ona regular basis with Ouka and Chigusa (already being done I think?) and with the two new level 2 from the Miach familia (a shame Mikoto had a really bad timing and they went to Miach familia rather than Hestia's, those two, they're very experienced in raid for level 2...) to form a party with enough number to go to floor 25 and below.

I think the author is planning to a scenario were Bell's team is cornered against some hard mode boss (es) so they have to pull their best moves and strategies that will make the whole team jump 1 level to justify it.

Zefyris

2016-03-09, 10:48

Dude, she can't deny what she doesn't has.

Also, Aiz didn't save him as of late, because Bete saved him instead.

Vote spamming is quite the sight always.

Also if there is someone

I think the author is planning to a scenario were Bell's team is cornered against some hard mode boss (es) so they have to pull their best moves and strategies that will make the whole team jump 1 level to justify it.
The author already did that (without leveling up) before though with volume 5. He already had him fighting higher level opponent as well in 6 and 7.
Another alternative for a stronger party would be that they ask the zenos to make a party with them lol. I kind of want to see that.
In that case they can't have the help of Miach and Takemikazuchi's familia at the same time? Although this would open up Ganeisha's familia instead,which is quite strong and has a lot of peoples.

Kuroageha

2016-03-09, 12:14

I meant it on massive way, as if it was a end game rush of bosses

Also I think Bête is more deserving of Ais far more than Bell.

Zefyris

2016-03-09, 14:27

can't be more massive than a 500 adventurers raid fighting a boss and hundred of adds. That was already completely irregular.

Right now, he's indeed more "deserving" imo.

Kuroageha

2016-03-09, 14:42

Note that I didn't mean one boss but a lot of them.

Zefyris

2016-03-09, 15:15

Note that I didn't mean one boss but a lot of them.
I didn't understood that :o
That wouldn't really be "lore friendly" though so I'm against it. + Against several boss Bell would be destroyed before being able to do anything so not a good idea imo.

The Green One

2016-03-09, 17:39

It doesn't have to necessarily be against monsters, Bell did breach the lvl 3 barrier from fighting a higher level adventurer by my understanding. That was after already maxing out lvl 2 pretty much beyond anything anyone had ever seen. Another possibility is he might end up going on quests with higher level parties if he gets on friendly terms with them, it doesn't just have to be with the Hestia familia exclusively. Reaching lvl 4 should be quite doable.

Kuroageha

2016-03-09, 19:53

It could be a training in Hell with Ottarl.

Somethindarker

2016-03-10, 04:44

So just because the girl doesn't like the MC, she's autistic and you dislike her/find her annoying? Like what, since when a female character loved by the MC doesn't have any right to not like the MC and not see him as a potential partner?

She has good reason to not see him as a potential partner. Just like Finn is rejecting Tione for good reason, for Ais, Bell doesn't fit the requirement for being her partner. And those requirement are, just like Finn, linked to her goal, something she's been aiming at most of her life,putting her life on the line as soon as when she was 7 years old, for it.
It's not to Ais to change her opinion on Bell. It's up to Bell to change himself to fill the requirements. He's trying hard to fill them, so just give him the time for this one.

And BTW, Bell is not the only one trying to fit those requirements. Bete has been trying very hard seen a far longer time. And if we're only looking under the angle of "trying hard to be a proper partner for Ais", I would say that Bete currently deserves Ais more than Bell on that point.

I can care less about her not liking Bell, it's the archetype she represents, and poorly imo, that I find annoying. She literally hasn't grown at all, bare in mind I haven't read past v2 or 3 of S.O. I could be off, most other characters like her tend to grow and show that they're more than just a blank stare she has no depth and only used to as a target for other characters or as a placeholder for their feelings. Don't get me wrong I don't hate her at all it's just that I don't have any particular feeling about her and slightly groan every time characters swoon over her blank stare.

That's not what anyone is saying. He's pretty clearly railing against the idea of Ais "autistically" not understanding her existing feelings for Bell as an artificial plot device to delay relationship development. At least that's how I see it. (Please correct me if I'm wrong, Somethindarker)

You're the only one I see suggesting that she has no feelings for him at all, and even you seem to leave the possibility of things open in the future (which would pretty much require some kind of spark to be present now).

You worded it better than me but that's pretty much it, every character puts her on this pedestal when all she is is a drone mindlessly grinding levels. There is no exposition about her thoughts on why she wanted Bells forgiveness, no emotion when Bete or her girlfriends talk about their feelings and I might give her shit about her "autism"(I only joke about it since I know true autistic people and she's not) but she's closer to a lifeless robot than that.

Your prediction made the person who requested me to ask this happy, and me sad.
The most obvious choice for single heroine ending is the girl I dislike the most in this story...

While I can see Zeyfris' ending happening I'd say the outcome for that is slim, in my opinion as of volume 9 the ending is leaning closer to a one girl ending or harem/life goes on ending.

As for the discussion about Bells leveling up, I'm thinking after this current arc(haven't read past volume 9) there will be either a timeskip OR a training arc with Bell not being generally absent in the novel. From some of the spoilers I've read it seems this coming arc is a big one so it could be a while but I don't see Bell going past level 4 until at least volume 14-15.

Zefyris

2016-03-10, 05:28

It could be a training in Hell with Ottarl.

Ottarl wouldn't care about his life so he's going to die just as much :heh:

@Somethindarker : you're off indeed, which can be easily understood since you stopped that early to read SO.

Archetype? Which one?

Somethindarker

2016-03-10, 06:45

Ottarl wouldn't care about his life so he's going to die just as much :heh:

@Somethindarker : you're off indeed, which can be easily understood since you stopped that early to read SO.

Archetype? Which one?

Like I said it's just my opinion from a strictly main series perspective, usually her archetype and the tomboy best friend girl are my favorite characters in series but I just don't like the way she's written to be so bland.

You know the type the emotionless girl that's usually either the main girl or the 2nd main girl.

quigonkenny

2016-03-10, 07:39

Like I said it's just my opinion from a strictly main series perspective, usually her archetype and the tomboy best friend girl are my favorite characters in series but I just don't like the way she's written to be so bland.

You know the type the emotionless girl that's usually either the main girl or the 2nd main girl.
Outside of Eva, this is the only series I can think of where that character type is "the main girl", and even then, Rei is arguably more plot device than heroine. Second main though? Oh yeah. All the time. Nagato from Haruhi comes to mind immediately. And Saya from Asterisk, among recent shows.

I don't know if I agree on the depths of Aiz's emotionlessness that you hint at, though. I haven't read the SO novels, but there's a fair bit of her internal monologue in the manga, and while it's certainly subdued, there is definitely emotion there. As faithful as the DanMachi manga has been to the source, I can't imagine the SO manga is much more divergent, if any, so maybe the parts I'm thinking of happened after you gave it up, but I'm sure they're there.

Somethindarker

2016-03-10, 09:32

Outside of Eva, this is the only series I can think of where that character type is "the main girl", and even then, Rei is arguably more plot device than heroine. Second main though? Oh yeah. All the time. Nagato from Haruhi comes to mind immediately. And Saya from Asterisk, among recent shows.

I don't know if I agree on the depths of Aiz's emotionlessness that you hint at, though. I haven't read the SO novels, but there's a fair bit of her internal monologue in the manga, and while it's certainly subdued, there is definitely emotion there. As faithful as the DanMachi manga has been to the source, I can't imagine the SO manga is much more divergent, if any, so maybe the parts I'm thinking of happened after you gave it up, but I'm sure they're there.

Well I've only ever read the main series' novels and manga I never bothered with the SO manga and only read SO v1,2 and maybe halfway through 3 so I'm speaking from a strictly main series point of view maybe I'll pick up the spinoff later on since I've heard the cute girls doing cute things has been toned down and Lefailya has manned up some.

lord_ragnos

2016-03-13, 04:06

I meant it on massive way, as if it was a end game rush of bosses

Also I think Bête is more deserving of Ais far more than Bell.

I disagree. Bete is an arrogant person who thinks only the strong should survive, which can't hold true because everyone has to start at the bottom. It also doesn't hold true for Aiz. Though she desires to become stronger, the fact that she is willing to help weaker people without as second thought, makes her values conflict with Betes. Bete has most likely been an adventurer for many years. Considering he is weaker than Aiz, and Aiz is described as special you can expect him to have been an adventurer longer than Aiz. It took Aiz 9 years to reach level 6 and it was said that she was stuck at level 5 with little improvement for quite a while. Now even if you considered that she valued strength in a man, which is probably true, then you would still have to see that she is considering Bell. Bell has reached level 3 in 2.5 months, when it should take others at least 2 years to reach (I say this because it took Aiz 1 year to reach lvl 2 and she was the record holder). Going from Bells growth rate, he should catch up to Aiz at the end of the year. Going from this Bell will reach lvl 6 (at least) in 1 year where it took Aiz who is special 9 years to reach. Bell will truely be strong very soon and will eclipse Bete. Bete sees this aswell. It is easy to see that Aiz would be mesmerised by Bell. Not only this but just seeing or being with Bell makes Aiz feel things she hasn't felt before, or at least not in a long time. Aiz has a black fire of desperation inside of her making her want to get stronger. This is crushing for Aiz and while Riveria is able to make that flame smaller and make Aiz feel better, just being with Bell made it disappear completely. Being with Bell, or just thinking about him, made Aiz remember her parents, which she hasn't done in years. Which made Aiz think of Heroes and finding her Hero. Thus Bell is better for her than Bete. Not only that but it doesn't matter how long Bete has been trying to win her over. In the end, if Aiz doesn't think of him that way then that is the end of the discussion. However, it looks like she is starting to fall for Bell.

However, and this part is bugging me because I have a feeling that it is going to turn out this way. I have a feeling that Bell and Ais are brother and sister... I hope it doesnt turn out like this, like in Muv Luv Total eclipse. Look at the picture of Albert Wallenstein - Aiz's father. He looks just like Bell (though we don't know the colour of Alberts hair or eyes. Bell also said that Albert had relations with Celdia (queen of elves. When this was mentioned, Bell also named off a bunch of other women. This info is from DanMachi wiki so i'm just saying what is said on there because the translations aren't out yet. However, it is possible that Albert had a Harem of his own or could have been with other women behind Aria's (Aiz's Mothers) back. It is possible that Bell and Aiz are half bother/sisters. I hope this isn't true. It would suck so badly. Have them fall in love with each other, only to find that they are brother and sister. Though I wonder if they will continue a romance even if that was the case.

Somethindarker

2016-03-13, 06:26

Have them fall in love with each other, only to find that they are brother and sister. Though I wonder if they will continue a romance even if that was the case.

As of right now Ais isn't in love with Bell she's just drawn to him and doesn't want to be with him romantically, as the scene with her and Hestia in (I think) volume 9. Bell admires her more than he loves her, he wants to fight alongside her or save her(can't remember specifically).

Kuroageha

2016-03-13, 07:29

lord_ragnos

2016-03-14, 12:13

As of right now Ais isn't in love with Bell she's just drawn to him and doesn't want to be with him romantically, as the scene with her and Hestia in (I think) volume 9. Bell admires her more than he loves her, he wants to fight alongside her or save her(can't remember specifically).

You're right. It is too early to say it is love but it will head in that direction unless what I think might happen happens and they find out about it first. You are right aswell, that he admires her more than he loves her. Mainly because he wants to catch up to her. But he does love her. As for what he wants to do, regardless of whether it has been mentioned or not, I think he would want to fight alongside her and he would want to save her. It's the whole basis around the story - Is it wrong to pick up women in dungeons... He wants her to see him as an equal but he would also want to return the favour to her for saving his life. I think he would want to do this and steal her heart...

You don't know about Bete beyond the anime.

Again, you're wrong.

I've been reading the manga of both the main and sword oratoria and this is what I have got so far. While you're most likely right that she isn't in love with him, she is has experienced feelings for him she hasn't felt before.

As for Bete you, I have been reading the manga which isn't ahead enough compared to the LN. That is why I have been reading wiki but they havent said much about bete on there.
Can you guys read Japanese? Or do you have a source that has translated the LN into english?

Echizen777

2016-03-14, 12:32

KnightShade

2016-03-14, 13:34

I wonder why most of the talk in this thread is about shipping. This is really not complicated.

Bell loves Ais but Ais doesn't love him, she has her goal in mind and Bell is not a suitable partner for her because he is weak. However she has an interest in him unlike with the other guys. So, if Bell were to become strong enough he'd be a suitable partner. Which is what he is trying to do since the first volume. Stronger males are more suitable for her but she isn't interested in them. If strength was the only requirement she'd try to be with Ottar.

don't know if this was you're intention, but this comes off as really shallow on aiz's part if true, though admittedly not intentionally. or to be precise, she really doesn't understand the concept of love if these are the parameters it would take for bell to get to her. and i thought ichika was bad

and yeah i agree with somethingdark's(or whoever said this) overall point that this level of denseness is just an artificial plot device to delay romance development, a crutch so many harem LN keep resorting too. but thankfully i dont give a shit about the main ships, just give me more welf x heph, badass loki team fights, badass ryu adventurers and badass hestia team fights.

Kuroageha

2016-03-14, 13:43

The flaw in your posts us Aiz actual DO KNOWS what is love so she isn't being dense or ignorant about it.

KnightShade

2016-03-14, 13:48

The flaw in your posts us Aiz actual DO KNOWS what is love so she isn't being dense or ignorant about it.

well clearly she has more to learn about love if her only grasp of it amounts to "Muh he's a kawaii little bunny but muh not strong enough." you cant fully grasp an something you've never experienced.

Endscape

2016-03-14, 15:29

well clearly she has more to learn about love if her only grasp of it amounts to "Muh he's a kawaii little bunny but muh not strong enough." you cant fully grasp an something you've never experienced.

The flaw in your argument here is that you're pre-supposing that she has feelings for Bell, that she doesn't understand.

Aiz does know what love is, from an intellectual standpoint, and what she feels for Bell isn't at that point yet, for many reasons including her own personal issues and Bell not being strong enough to be considered.

KnightShade

2016-03-14, 15:49

The flaw in your argument here is that you're pre-supposing that she has feelings for Bell, that she doesn't understand.

Aiz does know what love is, from an intellectual standpoint, and what she feels for Bell isn't at that point yet, for many reasons including her own personal issues and Bell not being strong enough to be considered.

no i am not nor have i ever said as much

@the bold, hence why i said she doesn't fully grasp the concept of love as love has more to do to it than the intellectual standpoint. it's not a matter of her having feelings she doesn't understand, which i agree with. it's a matter of not having said feelings to begin with as she has never experienced said feelings, as i said in the previous post.

edit-to elaborate, she has never felt these feelings for a boy and has yet to feel them with bell. she may understand love in a literal sense, but the idea of bell having to become strong in a physical sense just for those feelings to develop is IMO quite shallow.

Kuroageha

2016-03-14, 17:34

no i am not nor have i ever said as much

@the bold, hence why i said she doesn't fully grasp the concept of love as love has more to do to it than the intellectual standpoint. it's not a matter of her having feelings she doesn't understand, which i agree with. it's a matter of not having said feelings to begin with as she has never experienced said feelings, as i said in the previous post.

edit-to elaborate, she has never felt these feelings for a boy and has yet to feel them with bell. she may understand love in a literal sense, but the idea of bell having to become strong in a physical sense just for those feelings to develop is IMO quite shallow.
That is what you re mistaking, even if she like you say didnt a god can se through them, she might lie herself out of ignorance but she cant mislead gods.
Easy as that.

KnightShade

2016-03-14, 17:46

That is what you re mistaking, even if she like you say didnt a god can se through them, she might lie herself out of ignorance but she cant mislead gods.
Easy as that.

it's like you aren't reading what i'm saying at all. and please fix ur comment as i can hardly make out your point.

i'm fully aware that she has no feelings for bell at the moment, what i find shallow is this idea that these feelings can only develop through bell becoming more powerful.

SeaDam

2016-03-14, 18:40

it's like you aren't reading what i'm saying at all. and please fix ur comment as i can hardly make out your point.

i'm fully aware that she has no feelings for bell at the moment, what i find shallow is this idea that these feelings can only develop through bell becoming more powerful.

Where is that implied anyway?

KnightShade

2016-03-14, 18:45

Where is that implied anyway?

see the last page and a half of discussion.

Kuroageha

2016-03-14, 20:26

Even if Bell becomes powerful nothing can assure she will any feeling for Bell.

KnightShade

2016-03-14, 21:32

Even if Bell becomes powerful nothing can assure she will any feeling for Bell.

well then point this out from the get go.

the way you and others were phrasing this topic was misleading;

(Bell loves Ais but Ais doesn't love him, she has her goal in mind and Bell is not a suitable partner for her because he is weak. However she has an interest in him unlike with the other guys. So, if Bell were to become strong enough he'd be a suitable partner.)

this gives the false impression that whether or not she would begin to develop feelings for bell is tied strictly to his strength development.

Echizen777

2016-03-14, 23:15

don't know if this was you're intention, but this comes off as really shallow on aiz's part if true, though admittedly not intentionally. or to be precise, she really doesn't understand the concept of love if these are the parameters it would take for bell to get to her. and i thought ichika was bad

and yeah i agree with somethingdark's(or whoever said this) overall point that this level of denseness is just an artificial plot device to delay romance development, a crutch so many harem LN keep resorting too. but thankfully i dont give a shit about the main ships, just give me more welf x heph, badass loki team fights, badass ryu adventurers and badass hestia team fights.

Don't you find it's shallow because you are underestimating her goal? And what is the problem if it's shallow anyway? You are implying that she is actively seeking of a partner. She is not, she has no time to think about this because all she needs deems necessary for her goal is strength, to the point she is fighting like a berserker since she's a little kid. Love is far from being one of her priorities The latter half of my post was to show that, she isn't trying to hit on Ottar or other strong males., it's the least of her worries. She has her issues and obviously there will be more developments in the story.

KnightShade

2016-03-15, 00:11

Don't you find it's shallow because you are underestimating her goal? And what is the problem if it's shallow anyway? You are implying that she is actively seeking of a partner. She is not, she has no time to think about this because all she needs deems necessary for her goal is strength, to the point she is fighting like a berserker since she's a little kid. Love is far from being one of her priorities The latter half of my post was to show that, she isn't trying to hit on Ottar or other strong males., it's the least of her worries. She has her issues and obviously there will be more developments in the story.

1 i've never said anything about her goal, much less underestimated it

2 there's no problem of this being shallow for you, but i feel otherwise. if the author has to come up with a reason to delay development in this regard, imposing a narrow-minded definition of how love develops for aiz isn't ideal IMO. it's perfectly fine that she's not focused on love, but for her to suddenly be focused on love later down the line just because bell's stats went up would be horribly contrived and make her look worse as a character.

3 I never implied that at all, what is with these straw-men implications being throwing around here? in case you didn't understand what i was implying, see this.

"i'm fully aware that she has no feelings for bell at the moment, what i find shallow is this idea that these feelings can only develop through bell becoming more powerful."

kuroaheha already conceded that this idea isn't the case, so there's nothing left to argue about unless you truly think the idea is ok, do you?

lord_ragnos

2016-03-15, 02:38

Even if Bell becomes powerful nothing can assure she will any feeling for Bell.

That is kind of true. I'll expand on this.
From what I have read in the manga of her side story Sword of Oratoria, Aiz already has "Feelings" for Bell. Granted, they haven't reached the point of love yet. However, she has taken a big interest in Bell. Whether it is because of his fast growth or not is not exactly the issue. The issue is that she has an interest in him, which is something that she hasn't felt for any other man (that I have seen at least. Correct me if I am wrong).
The main thing that is stopping Aiz from falling in love with anyone, is her seeking to get stronger. From what I have read so far, the reason why she is wanting to get stronger hasn't been revealed yet, but I do have some theories. Currently, Aiz feels love will make her weaker, or take away her current reason for living. Also, falling in love will be a hinderance to becoming stronger as it would take time away from her going into the dungeon, also it might distract her.
That said, even if Bell gets stronger, it might not make her love him. That alone would never be enough for anyone. This is because she will still be seeking to get stronger and that is her reason for living. Also, when you think of it, she might even get jealous of him and start to hate him (or rather herself) if he gets stronger too quickly and catches up to her strength. Basically, Bell needs to do something that catches her of guard and steal her heart. Basically he needs to save her, and through that, become her hero.
When you think of it, this is what Bell was told when he was being brought up by his grandfather Zeus. Meet Girls in the Dungeon. Save the Girl. Be a Hero.

lord_ragnos

2016-03-15, 03:22

1 i've never said anything about her goal, much less underestimated it

2 there's no problem of this being shallow for you, but i feel otherwise. if the author has to come up with a reason to delay development in this regard, imposing a narrow-minded definition of how love develops for aiz isn't ideal IMO. it's perfectly fine that she's not focused on love, but for her to suddenly be focused on love later down the line just because bell's stats went up would be horribly contrived and make her look worse as a character.

3 I never implied that at all, what is with these straw-men implications being throwing around here? in case you didn't understand what i was implying, see this.

"i'm fully aware that she has no feelings for bell at the moment, what i find shallow is this idea that these feelings can only develop through bell becoming more powerful."

kuroaheha already conceded that this idea isn't the case, so there's nothing left to argue about unless you truly think the idea is ok, do you?

You are right. If Aiz only falls in love with Bell because he gets stronger, then that would be bad for her character development. She would be very shallow. However, because of this, that would never happen. Strength alone wont be enough for her to fall in love with Bell. Because she is still going to be seeking to get stronger and sees love as a hindrance to that goal. She may even start to get jealous of him and take it out on him because she would start to see her own weakness. She would start to hate herself - "Bell has caught up to me, why aren't I getting any stronger?". When this happens, I can see her start to pull away from Bell. Bell will be confused etc.
Because Aiz isn't and doesn't want to look for love, Bell needs to do something that will catch her of guard and steal her heart. This may end up being Bell saving her. However, because she would be hating her own weakness, this may not be enough for Bell to win her over. I think what would need to happen is there to be an understanding created about eachother. Basically, Bell needs to learn about why Aiz is wanting to become stronger and the Loki Familia may end up telling him this. Also, I think Aiz needs to know about Bell's Realis Phrase ability so she can understand Bell. Bell can't tell her this himself because he doesnt know about it yet

Zefyris

2016-03-15, 05:29

I disagree. Bete is an arrogant person who thinks only the strong should survive, which can't hold true because everyone has to start at the bottom. It also doesn't hold true for Aiz. Though she desires to become stronger, the fact that she is willing to help weaker people without as second thought, makes her values conflict with Betes. Bete has most likely been an adventurer for many years. Considering he is weaker than Aiz, and Aiz is described as special you can expect him to have been an adventurer longer than Aiz. It took Aiz 9 years to reach level 6 and it was said that she was stuck at level 5 with little improvement for quite a while. Now even if you considered that she valued strength in a man, which is probably true, then you would still have to see that she is considering Bell. Bell has reached level 3 in 2.5 months, when it should take others at least 2 years to reach (I say this because it took Aiz 1 year to reach lvl 2 and she was the record holder). Going from Bells growth rate, he should catch up to Aiz at the end of the year. Going from this Bell will reach lvl 6 (at least) in 1 year where it took Aiz who is special 9 years to reach. Bell will truely be strong very soon and will eclipse Bete. Bete sees this aswell. It is easy to see that Aiz would be mesmerised by Bell. Not only this but just seeing or being with Bell makes Aiz feel things she hasn't felt before, or at least not in a long time. Aiz has a black fire of desperation inside of her making her want to get stronger. This is crushing for Aiz and while Riveria is able to make that flame smaller and make Aiz feel better, just being with Bell made it disappear completely. Being with Bell, or just thinking about him, made Aiz remember her parents, which she hasn't done in years. Which made Aiz think of Heroes and finding her Hero. Thus Bell is better for her than Bete. Not only that but it doesn't matter how long Bete has been trying to win her over. In the end, if Aiz doesn't think of him that way then that is the end of the discussion. However, it looks like she is starting to fall for Bell.

However, and this part is bugging me because I have a feeling that it is going to turn out this way. I have a feeling that Bell and Ais are brother and sister... I hope it doesnt turn out like this, like in Muv Luv Total eclipse. Look at the picture of Albert Wallenstein - Aiz's father. He looks just like Bell (though we don't know the colour of Alberts hair or eyes. Bell also said that Albert had relations with Celdia (queen of elves. When this was mentioned, Bell also named off a bunch of other women. This info is from DanMachi wiki so i'm just saying what is said on there because the translations aren't out yet. However, it is possible that Albert had a Harem of his own or could have been with other women behind Aria's (Aiz's Mothers) back. It is possible that Bell and Aiz are half bother/sisters. I hope this isn't true. It would suck so badly. Have them fall in love with each other, only to find that they are brother and sister. Though I wonder if they will continue a romance even if that was the case.

Bell cannot be more than half-brother of Ais because he cannot have both parents identical. Why ? Because he doesn't have any affinity to wind like Ais does. If you don't understand why I'm saying this, you'll understand in SO 5.

And ike peoples said before me,you clearly are NOT understanding Bete. Also, if not for Bete, Bell wouldn't have been so determined to level up fast, and Lefiya wouldn't have evolved like that.

As of right now Ais isn't in love with Bell she's just drawn to him and doesn't want to be with him romantically, as the scene with her and Hestia in (I think) volume 9. Bell admires her more than he loves her, he wants to fight alongside her or save her(can't remember specifically).

It's volume 8 :)

I've been reading the manga of both the main and sword oratoria and this is what I have got so far. While you're most likely right that she isn't in love with him, she is has experienced feelings for him she hasn't felt before.

As for Bete you, I have been reading the manga which isn't ahead enough compared to the LN. That is why I have been reading wiki but they havent said much about bete on there.
Can you guys read Japanese? Or do you have a source that has translated the LN into english?
Personally, yes, I can. And I have to say that Bete is quite a likeable character in SO.
As for Ais, no romantic feeling (hidden/not understood by her included, there is absolutely no such feelings at all)

I wonder why most of the talk in this thread is about shipping. This is really not complicated.

Bell loves Ais but Ais doesn't love him, she has her goal in mind and Bell is not a suitable partner for her because he is weak. However she has an interest in him unlike with the other guys. So, if Bell were to become strong enough he'd be a suitable partner. Which is what he is trying to do since the first volume. Stronger males are more suitable for her but she isn't interested in them. If strength was the only requirement she'd try to be with Ottar.
Ottarl is in love (like almost all of Freya's gigantic reverse har- I mean familia) with Freya though.

well then point this out from the get go.

the way you and others were phrasing this topic was misleading;

(Bell loves Ais but Ais doesn't love him, she has her goal in mind and Bell is not a suitable partner for her because he is weak. However she has an interest in him unlike with the other guys. So, if Bell were to become strong enough he'd be a suitable partner.)

this gives the false impression that whether or not she would begin to develop feelings for bell is tied strictly to his strength development.

Simply because as long as he's not strong enough he cannot be his partner, and that for the first time when strong enough he could be a potential one. It doesn't mean however that Ais would change her view of him after protecting him for so long, for example. But as long as he doesn't AT LEAST fit that condition, nothing can happen here.

1 i've never said anything about her goal, much less underestimated it

2 there's no problem of this being shallow for you, but i feel otherwise. if the author has to come up with a reason to delay development in this regard, imposing a narrow-minded definition of how love develops for aiz isn't ideal IMO. it's perfectly fine that she's not focused on love, but for her to suddenly be focused on love later down the line just because bell's stats went up would be horribly contrived and make her look worse as a character.

No one said such thing would happen. The author hasn't wrote anything on this, you just misinterpreted peoples' post in this thread.

KnightShade

2016-03-15, 11:43

^ there were misinterpretations on both sides of alley, not just myself. Most of you failed to mention that strength wouldnt be the only factor, and im only pointing that out to prevent others from perceiving aiz negatively due to said omission of context.

KnightShade

2016-03-15, 11:51

You are right. If Aiz only falls in love with Bell because he gets stronger, then that would be bad for her character development. She would be very shallow. However, because of this, that would never happen. Strength alone wont be enough for her to fall in love with Bell. Because she is still going to be seeking to get stronger and sees love as a hindrance to that goal. She may even start to get jealous of him and take it out on him because she would start to see her own weakness. She would start to hate herself - "Bell has caught up to me, why aren't I getting any stronger?". When this happens, I can see her start to pull away from Bell. Bell will be confused etc.
Because Aiz isn't and doesn't want to look for love, Bell needs to do something that will catch her of guard and steal her heart. This may end up being Bell saving her. However, because she would be hating her own weakness, this may not be enough for Bell to win her over. I think what would need to happen is there to be an understanding created about eachother. Basically, Bell needs to learn about why Aiz is wanting to become stronger and the Loki Familia may end up telling him this. Also, I think Aiz needs to know about Bell's Realis Phrase ability so she can understand Bell. Bell can't tell her this himself because he doesnt know about it yet

Then we are all on the same page now. Hopefully it plays out similar to what you suggest albeit sooner rather then later.