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relentlessflame
2014-03-03, 01:52
This is a thread to discuss High School DxD Light Novel Volume 17.

Please stay on-topic and discuss what happens in this volume.
No shipping talk
No pointless chatter
No posting raws or novel illustrations
No posting translations of the novels themselves
No asking about when translations will be done
No posts only to update people about translation status (or to just say that something's "out")
No posts only to thank translators (please us PM or VM instead)


If you want to discuss a related topic, please feel free to request another thread be created about that topic.

NOTE: The novel was released on 20 February 2014.

G147
2014-03-03, 02:23
Finally a Volume 17 thread. :)

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 05:07
To be honest with all the discussions and spoilers we have done to death I do not think this thread will be very active until Volume 17 is translated... However I am looking forward to some intense discussions later when we are able to read it

G147
2014-03-03, 06:18
Well the start could be a good discussion like the reaction of the girls when Rose ask Issei to be her boyfriend in the bath. xD

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 06:50
I honestly can't wait for that! Everything has hit the fan. It might just be Rose asking Issei out as a temporary measure to fool her granny when she comes to visit I think

Chris38
2014-03-03, 07:12
I honestly can't wait for that! Everything has hit the fan. It might just be Rose asking Issei out as a temporary measure to fool her granny when she comes to visit I think

Considering the fact that n0m@n's spoilers say that near the end of the volume Rossweisse goes on a date with Ise to a 200 yen shop, I doubt it's something temporary. :heh:

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 07:30
Considering the fact that n0m@n's spoilers say that near the end of the volume Rossweisse goes on a date with Ise to a 200 yen shop, I doubt it's something temporary. :heh:

True but working with the spoilers and seeing as how dumb and dense Issei is he might try to reason it that way and not know she means it seriously. After all he still hasn't worked out that he is engaged to Rias yet...

Chris38
2014-03-03, 07:37
True but working with the spoilers and seeing as how dumb and dense Issei is he might try to reason it that way and not know she means it seriously. After all he still hasn't worked out that he is engaged to Rias yet...

If you mean it like that ... then I agree that Ise might look at this from that perspective, considering how his character has been portrayed so far.

But, it might also be possible that Ishibumi is going to use this situation to finally have Ise undergo some more character development when it comes to the love / relationship related side of the plot...

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 07:45
If you mean it like that ... then I agree that Ise might look at this from that perspective, considering how his character has been portrayed so far.

But, it might also be possible that Ishibumi is going to use this situation to finally have Ise undergo some more character development when it comes to the love / relationship related side of the plot...

I really hope so as his relationship and love with the girls is getting a bit stale for my taste. Maybe this will be the sign for everyone to up their game a bit. I am hoping more development with Ravel to be honest as she is my favourite character. Akeno might start acting romantic instead of just flirting as Issei only really sees that as her S side. Then again I think people like Akeno like that so not to sure if Ishibumi will change her too much...

Tbolt
2014-03-03, 07:54
Even though it's going to be fun reading nothing is going to change in the harem.

As far as there ranking goes Rose will still be in the bottom three.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 08:00
Maybe more member will be added to the harem in future? I want to see Tiamat added or at least Tiamat and Ddraig meeting up again to find out why she hates him. Maybe the only thing that he can do with the harem is to make everyone eventually end up officially going out with Issei rather then the current state they are in now.

Chris38
2014-03-03, 08:09
^ I think that pretty much every reader of DxD wants to see Tiamat and what her relationship with Ddraig actually is.

Regarding to more members being added to Ise's harem ... personally I think that it would be nicer to see Ise's development of the relationship with the girls that are already in his harem, rather then make another girl join it, reducing the screen time that the previously introduced and more developed girls have ...

After all, the author is only human ... and I think he already has some issues in developing Ise's relationship with the 8 - 9 girls that are already in Ise's harem.

Gary29
2014-03-03, 08:59
Yay for a Volume 17 thread at last! :D

Kuroka and Le Fay are pretty close to joining Ise's harem, but how many after them will join is another matter. Regarding Rose, I still think that being Ise's second girlfriend puts her higher up, like above Xenovia and Irina for #5, so it'll be interesting to see if the harem order changes due to v17. That would make for a pretty funny scene, Rias trying to organize the order of her fiance's harem based on how close he is to each of the girls :heh:

G147
2014-03-03, 09:02
I think Rose isn't Issei's second girlfriend. Rose only asked Issei to pretend as her boyfriend to trick her granny. Still i'm waiting to read the scene when Rose introduces Issei as her "boyfriend".

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 09:52
Now that Issei has made a pact with Le fay and has Rossweisse as his girlfriend (or at least a closer relationship) will he learn any magic? He has shown an interest in it and Vali is already learning Norse magic so maybe there will be hints in this volume as to this being the next power up?

Tbolt
2014-03-03, 10:20
Le Fay told Ise that she could teach him simple magic like heating a cup of coffee and seeing through things. So I don't think you're going to see any big power up from Ise learning magic.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 10:30
True I read that as well but guess I got my hopes up. I should think teaching Issei to see through things is the last thing any girl wants...

XFire
2014-03-03, 10:33
True I read that as well but guess I got my hopes up. I should think teaching Issei to see through things is the last thing any girl wants...

Not sure why he would need to, the girls sleep half naked next him and have no problem disrobing if he asked them to.

G147
2014-03-03, 10:36
Well magic uses something Issei isn't very good at. :heh:

“If you have to separate them simply, yes, that is correct. Demonic-power requires the power to use imagination and the power to create, and it requires having good sense. Magic is just knowledge to control equations, and you need to use your head and need calculations, so they are different even though it may seem similar.”

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-03, 10:39
I think Rose isn't Issei's second girlfriend. Rose only asked Issei to pretend as her boyfriend to trick her granny. Still i'm waiting to read the scene when Rose introduces Issei as her "boyfriend".

I tend to think that Rose asked Issei to really be her boyfriend. Seeing as she has complained the entire series about not having one. I don't think she would go to the trouble of asking Issei to be her boyfriend to only have him be a fake. She seems to be trying hard for Issei. She even takes him to a 200 yen shop. For such a cheap person thats a big step. Although I suppose we won't know until we all read this volume.

charasu
2014-03-03, 10:40
Le Fay told Ise that she could teach him simple magic like heating a cup of coffee and seeing through things. So I don't think you're going to see any big power up from Ise learning magic.

but i hope with learning magic, ise can come up with new moves or maybe special attack for long range bombardment beside crimsone blaster or dragon breath.....:D

Tbolt
2014-03-03, 10:42
The girls wouldn't worry about the ability being used on them, they would worry about him running around using it on other girls.

helansin
2014-03-03, 10:42
I would very much like to see Tiamat make an appearance, both to clear up the reason for her hatred of Draig, But more than that, it would be great to have her approach Issie as a potential mate, it would bring an interesting twist to the love lives in the house i think :D

Either way you look at it, Issie is part "Great Red" and part "Ophis" so a dragon seeking a mate would surely find him very appealing for a strong child. And the love/hate of having Tiamat court Issie/Draig would make for the greatest Tsundere dragon love ever :twitch:

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 10:46
Not sure why he would need to, the girls sleep half naked next him and have no problem disrobing if he asked them to.

Yes but I was referring to every other woman in the world. I can imagine Issei using that to look at Rias's mother and Grayfia and I am not sure that would go down too well. That isn't including all the girls at school or the rest of the world.

Well magic uses something Issei isn't very good at. :heh:

True but Issei works hard at everything he tries so I think if he really put his mind to it he could have some success. Only reason he is dumb is because he thinks he is dumb so gave up a long time using his brain. Also if he focussed even 1% of brain power on learning magic instead of ecchi things it would make a big difference

aw454wtr
2014-03-03, 10:48
Yes but I was referring to every other woman in the world. I can imagine Issei using that to look at Rias's mother and Grayfia and I am not sure that would go down too well. That isn't including all the girls at school or the rest of the world.



True but Issei works hard at everything he tries so I think if he really put his mind to it he could have some success. Only reason he is dumb is because he thinks he is dumb so gave up a long time using his brain. Also if he focussed even 1% of brain power on learning magic instead of ecchi things it would make a big difference

Ise that does not think about ecchi is not Ise anymore though, all his powerup's come from ecchi thoughts/actions, so he better off keeping that line of thinking

GBFirestorm
2014-03-03, 10:53
Ise that does not think about ecchi is not Ise anymore though, all his powerup's come from ecchi thoughts/actions, so he better off keeping that line of thinking

To a certain degree I do agree with what you are saying but look at the effort he put in to learn devil letters and study for his promotion test. This has proven that if he really wants it and if only temporarily he does have the ability to not think of ecchi things and the drive to improve himself

aw454wtr
2014-03-03, 12:36
Wasn't there a SS where Ise loses his desire of ecchi?

DragoMuseveni
2014-03-03, 12:36
I can wait to see how Ise will unlock longinus smasher, i hope Draig will be in highspirits like the last time . Now Draig isn`t anymore a pitfull dragon .

Gary29
2014-03-03, 12:39
Wasn't there a SS where Ise loses his desire of ecchi?

Yeah, the one where his ecchiness gets zapped by a UFO (Abduction ERO!). I really wanna read that one lol, sounds fun.

Emwe
2014-03-03, 13:19
Actually Ise's imagination and power to create is high, his only problem is that most of his thought in his life are related to oppai and other ecchi things. Which at the end leaded to a bad imagination for everything else.

Best examples for this is 1st the Rias figure he made, 2nd bilingual which I would rate around S-SS rank skill and (maybe a part of it) 3rd his new mini dragons.

I don't know if the talk about the 666 seal rossweiße made is part of this volume but I would like to know the details of it.

Tbolt
2014-03-03, 15:02
@Emwe, the mini dragons didn't come from Ise's imagination, they came from Ddraig.

Superbia
2014-03-03, 15:03
Actually Ise's imagination and power to create is high, his only problem is that most of his thought in his life are related to oppai and other ecchi things. Which at the end leaded to a bad imagination for everything else.

The problem for Issei is that imagination and power to create are good for demonic powers, but for magic he would need knowledge to control equations, which doesn't really suit him.

On the other hand, when Issei breathes fire in combat, he creates a small flame and just transfers a large amount of power to compensate. It's possible he could do the same with magic.

XFire
2014-03-03, 15:08
Yeah, the one where his ecchiness gets zapped by a UFO (Abduction ERO!). I really wanna read that one lol, sounds fun.

.....Eh? a UFO? There are aliens?

ObsidianFrost
2014-03-03, 17:12
I hope in this volume Issei learns that he has been engaged to Rias for months at this point. I find it funnyall the legal wife refrences and no one has bothered to tell him, EVERYONE else knows (even gasper probably) but yet they all fail to tell him "Oh by the way you're engaged to Rias" I really wanna see his reaction to this bombshell it may be why he learns how to use boost with the mini ddraigs xD never know all the ecchi thoughts may increase his power for a limited time

kikix
2014-03-03, 19:06
The engagement part may be their final weapon against some monster...

Issei VS 666

After a short and one-sided battle, Issei is losing.
Rias: "Issei, if you will defeat it, I'll marry you!"
Issei, a lot of boosts.
6sec later.

Rias: "Issei! You really defeated it! Oh, by the way. We're engaged for the past few months, but we didn't feel like telling you sooner."
Issei freezes.


That'd be fun, even if it would be ridiculous...
PS:...This is not serious...

Anyway, I don't think Issei will learn about the engagement in this volume. And the reason he still doesn't know it is...the comedy value of him not knowing. That's the only reason, really.

darkofficer
2014-03-03, 20:57
I think issei would have the same reaction as shinobi from tsuki tsuki. Just fainting

sunsengnim
2014-03-03, 21:09
I think issei would have the same reaction as shinobi from tsuki tsuki. Just fainting

nah, issei is just gonna start crying and have a passionate hug+kiss with rias wich obviously all the other girls are gonna see and be totally jelly about.

and then we'll hear the mortal kombat anouncer in the background yelling FIGHT!

darkofficer
2014-03-03, 21:15
nah, issei is just gonna start crying and have a passionate hug+kiss with rias wich obviously all the other girls are gonna see and be totally jelly about.

and then we'll hear the mortal kombat anouncer in the background yelling FIGHT!

Koneko is going ro beat them all in her shirone mode ( she is also engaged to issei after all )

sky black swordman
2014-03-03, 22:24
.....Eh? a UFO? There are aliens?
No aliens, the UFO was made by Azazel. IIRC, when Rias and girls found out that it was Azazel who made it Rias smacked Azazel around with her harisen.

I think issei would have the same reaction as shinobi from tsuki tsuki. Just faintingI agree or Issei will freak out a bit and then faint.

nah, issei is just gonna start crying and have a passionate hug+kiss with rias wich obviously all the other girls are gonna see and be totally jelly about.

and then we'll hear the mortal kombat anouncer in the background yelling FIGHT!I can't see Issei doing something like that.

saw2097
2014-03-03, 22:50
No aliens, the UFO was made by Azazel. IIRC, when Rias and girls found out that it was Azazel who made it Rias smacked Azazel around with her harisen.

I agree or Issei will freak out a bit and then faint.

I can't see Issei doing something like that.

Okay, why was Rias angry that Ise wasn't a pervert anymore? Wouldn't that make her life easier if he isn't going after every attractive girl he comes across.

sunsengnim
2014-03-03, 22:51
issei and rias sleep together in each others arms and kiss regularly.
it's in the novels. :p

so there's a chance it'l go that way.

ravelive
2014-03-03, 22:52
Koneko is going ro beat them all in her shirone mode ( she is also engaged to issei after all )

when that happen... i think the first one who will get punched is ise itself... :heh:

XFire
2014-03-03, 23:38
Okay, why was Rias angry that Ise wasn't a pervert anymore? Wouldn't that make her life easier if he isn't going after every attractive girl he comes across.

Because Rias enjoys all of the perverted things Ise does (to her, not so much the others).

Seriously, the girls are as perverted as Ise, just focused on one person. And in better control of their urges.

aw454wtr
2014-03-03, 23:43
Because Rias enjoys all of the perverted things Ise does (to her, not so much the others).

Seriously, the girls are as perverted as Ise, just focused on one person. And in better control of their urges.

In better control of their urges, tell that to xenoiva, bringing out condoms in the and casually asking ise to copulate with her in the middle of the class :)

XFire
2014-03-03, 23:46
In better control of their urges, tell that to xenoiva, bringing out condoms in the and casually asking ise to copulate with her in the middle of the class :)

Point taken. She's worse than Ise, actually.

kikix
2014-03-04, 00:59
She's not worse than Issei. She just is not socially adapted. She have a pure personality that makes her want to satisfy her urges when they appear, without the morality changes of the world.
And copulation is all nice and good according to Christian teachings too...so yeah, that's no argument to say that she should know that such things are not done in public.

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 01:16
Okay, why was Rias angry that Ise wasn't a pervert anymore? Wouldn't that make her life easier if he isn't going after every attractive girl he comes across.

Its like what was talked about before, its because it isn't "Ise".

“No. It seems like we can watch calmly over both of them with relief.”

“While I do get envious of them, just looking at them with a sense of relief somehow heals me.”

“You are right. It took quite a long time for it to progress to this stage. It seems like there are flowers growing behind them in the background when they look into each others eyes!”

You wont see any kind of battles between the girls.

And as far as Rose goes she knows how it is with the girls because she is living there after all so nothing much will change.

She knows the pecking order and like the other girls she will find her place, it just the natural order of things.

whitecloud
2014-03-04, 01:56
Can anyone give a summary of abduction ero? It seems so interesting.......

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 02:57
^ is a new standard of erotica in the web.

lived_1714
2014-03-04, 04:55
Okay, why was Rias angry that Ise wasn't a pervert anymore? Wouldn't that make her life easier if he isn't going after every attractive girl he comes across.

First, you have to understand that when you want a harem, you're a perverted man, no exception. If you're not a perv then you just need only 1 woman in your life.

If Issei's no more a perv, then in his eyes, only Rias matters, the other girls will be ignored, or turned down since Issei just needs Rias, and that's what Rias and the girls don't want. Imagine one day your wife doesn't want to do some fetishes you like, that's that.

whitecloud
2014-03-04, 05:32
So rias dont want a monogamous relationship?

sky black swordman
2014-03-04, 06:00
Okay, why was Rias angry that Ise wasn't a pervert anymore? Wouldn't that make her life easier if he isn't going after every attractive girl he comes across. Akeno: “But I can’t imagine Ise-kun who isn’t ecchi. It’s Ise-kun only if he looks at woman with lecherous eyes.”

Rias: “Yes, you are right Akeno. Ise who isn’t interested in woman’s breast isn’t Ise. When I see Ise looking at my breasts it makes me think that “This boy is also healthy today” and I can feel relieved.”This is the Issei that Rias and the girls fell in love with. So, an Issei that is not a lecherous boy is not the Issei that she and the girls fell in love with.

issei and rias sleep together in each others arms and kiss regularly.
it's in the novels. :p

so there's a chance it'l go that way.They have not slept like that in quite a bit. Not since all of girls started sleeping in Issei's bed. And kissing...Well, we have not read anything about them kissing lately.

Maybe.

You wont see any kind of battles between the girls.Well, early on in the story there was battles between the girls (involving Rias and Asia or Akeno). That ranged from silly little arguments to one on one battles. Although, we have not seen any of these battles as of late.

Can anyone give a summary of abduction ero? It seems so interesting.......Sorry, but no summary of this SS exist. Just pieces of spoiler here and there.

So rias dont want a monogamous relationship?Now, that Rias is Issei's girlfriend and has secure her position as Issei's NO.1 she is ok with Issei having a harem.

lived_1714
2014-03-04, 06:12
We do have Issei casually eating the same ice cream with Koneko without blushing or denying, and he did know that. I think it's a good feat compare to... You know, those generic harem guys.

ObsidianFrost
2014-03-04, 06:32
Part of why Issei is able to have so many girls is because of how he treats them, he may leachous, he is a pervert, and sometimes i cant stand his antics (as a guy i just shake my head at some of the really stupid things he does) but he doesnt see the girls as object. he sees them as his comrades and as people. so eating ice cream with koneko isnt that surprising hes matured (Some) since volume 1 he doesnt get over excited about little things anymore but i think he gives all the girls balanced time (minus rias rias gets to monoploize him)

ObsidianFrost
2014-03-04, 06:33
And to the person that answered my earlier questiona bout issei finding out about the engagment youre right it is funny, but i just wish theyd find a reason other than the fact that issei is so dense he doesnt notice the signs

Chris38
2014-03-04, 06:51
^ I think that part of the reason why Ise doesn't realize that he is already engaged to Rias, apart from the comedy factor is simply the fact that Ishibumi is concentrating on developing Ise's relationship with the other girls in his harem, so he left the development of Rias's relationship in the background, including Ise's realization of it's actual status.

Personally, I think he might return to this particular topic, after the other girls in Ise's harem that hadn't had a lot of development, upgrade their relationship with him.

Basically, I believe that we might return to this topic, somewhere around volume 20, after Rossweisse, Irina and Xenovia and maybe also Ophis receive some development of their relationship with Ise.

kikix
2014-03-04, 06:56
And to the person that answered my earlier questiona bout issei finding out about the engagment youre right it is funny, but i just wish theyd find a reason other than the fact that issei is so dense he doesnt notice the signsIt doesn't need to be the case with him not noticing them. He may just reject them. As in, he sees them, but thinks they are signs of something else.

It's exactly like when he and Rias weren't a couple. Rias kept giving him signs that she have a crush on him, but instead of seeing it as her flirting and seducing him, he though she considers him a pet and doesn't even see him as a man whatsoever.

You know, that kind of reaction is kind of normal for people that have lowered confidence or some sort of trauma and it have nothing to do with being dense.

Emwe
2014-03-04, 07:10
Basically, I believe that we might return to this topic, somewhere around volume 20, after Rossweisse, Irina and Xenovia and maybe also Ophis receive some development of their relationship with Ise.

I think Ophis development will only happen in a SS or after something happens with lilith, I think Koneko+Kuroka, Ravel and Le Fay need a bit more spotlight. The biggest problem is Koneko because she never realy had a volume dedicated to her but got character development in nearly every volume.

G147
2014-03-04, 07:18
Actually i think after Volume 19, Ishibumi will focus again on Rias and Akeno since their graduation is coming soon.

Remember Ravel did make Issei promise to take Rias and Akeno to a date this volume. Of course herself and Le Fay too.

sky black swordman
2014-03-04, 08:12
It doesn't need to be the case with him not noticing them. He may just reject them. As in, he sees them, but thinks they are signs of something else.

It's exactly like when he and Rias weren't a couple. Rias kept giving him signs that she have a crush on him, but instead of seeing it as her flirting and seducing him, he though she considers him a pet and doesn't even see him as a man whatsoever.

You know, that kind of reaction is kind of normal for people that have lowered confidence or some sort of trauma and it have nothing to do with being dense. But chance are that is nost likely the case. Or he is just confused about what is going on.

Some of that has to do with Rias's behavior and actions toward him prior to falling in love with him.

Unfortunately for Issei, he had both low confidence and trauma(courtesy of his first girlfriend and first love Raynare).

kusabireika
2014-03-04, 08:37
But chance are that is nost likely the case. Or he is just confused about what is going on.

Some of that has to do with Rias's behavior and actions toward him prior to falling in love with him.

Unfortunately for Issei, he had both low confidence and trauma(courtesy of his first girlfriend and first love Raynare).

But you know thx to that trauma he can use it advantage coz you know he never underestimate his opponents

Change of topic does sona have any progression/growth on volume 17 of the novel due to saji becoming heroic and attaining bb?

Gary29
2014-03-04, 08:48
But chance are that is nost likely the case. Or he is just confused about what is going on.

Some of that has to do with Rias's behavior and actions toward him prior to falling in love with him.

Unfortunately for Issei, he had both low confidence and trauma(courtesy of his first girlfriend and first love Raynare).

I don't think it's that he doesn't notice the signs, as he definitely does, but it's more of what kikix said, that he rejects them to a certain extent due to his trauma with Raynare that isn't fully healed yet.

@kusabireika: If I remember what n0m@n said in the speculation thread, Sona cried for Saji using his body to protect the school, like the Gremory team cried when Gasper kept standing up in v10. I don't think her feelings for him progressed, though.

kusabireika
2014-03-04, 08:51
I don't think it's that he doesn't notice the signs, as he definitely does, but it's more of what kikix said, that he rejects them to a certain extent due to his trauma with Raynare that isn't fully healed yet.

@kusabireika: If I remember what n0m@n said in the speculation thread, Sona cried for Saji using his body to protect the school, like the Gremory team cried when Gasper kept standing up in v10. I don't think her feelings for him progressed, though.

I read that part but Im bit curious if the author use this plot in making sona stronger like what rias did when isse died/reborn, so she won't lost her precious servant

She can ask her sis to teach her in becoming stronger just like rias did on her own :)

aw454wtr
2014-03-04, 09:15
It doesn't need to be the case with him not noticing them. He may just reject them. As in, he sees them, but thinks they are signs of something else.

It's exactly like when he and Rias weren't a couple. Rias kept giving him signs that she have a crush on him, but instead of seeing it as her flirting and seducing him, he though she considers him a pet and doesn't even see him as a man whatsoever.

You know, that kind of reaction is kind of normal for people that have lowered confidence or some sort of trauma and it have nothing to do with being dense.

That trauma was due to the events in vol 1 when ise's first girlfriend Raynare killed him and asia, that trauma got resolved in vol 10.

the real reason that Ise does not know about his engagement is quite simply that no one had told him yet and he is still dense about romance (you'd think he'd find it odd why the gremory house servants and lucifer group call him young master)

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 09:45
After Ise was killed by Raynare, Ise's emotional growth really stopped so when he was suddenly thrown into a whole new emotional battle ground it just over loaded him.

So when the girls released the hurt in Ise's heart he is able to move forward with his emotions but he still has a lot of catching up to do, but we do see improvement like eating with Koneko the lack of nose bleeds and promising Akeno that he wouldn't die. As was stated Ise realized that he burned the bridge on his own and that he had to move forward.

So when the topic of his engagement come to light it will just take talking with Azazel, Ddraig, Kiba and Sairaorg much like he has done in the past it will allow him to confirm his feelings and propose to Rias.

Saji is going to have a major break down when Ise calls Sona by her name after the battle.:D

aw454wtr
2014-03-04, 09:59
After Ise was killed by Raynare, Ise's emotional growth really stopped so when he was suddenly thrown into a whole new emotional battle ground it just over loaded him.

So when the girls released the hurt in Ise's heart he is able to move forward with his emotions but he still has a lot of catching up to do, but we do see improvement like eating with Koneko the lack of nose bleeds and promising Akeno that he wouldn't die. As was stated Ise realized that he burned the bridge on his own and that he had to move forward.

So when the topic of his engagement come to light it will just take talking with Azazel, Ddraig, Kiba and Sairaorg much like he has done in the past it will allow him to confirm his feelings and propose to Rias.

Saji is going to have a major break down when Ise calls Sona by her name after the battle.:D

rias was the one who killed raynare, ise just KO'ed her, part of his trauma was also the fact that his current love interest killed his former girlfriend

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 10:09
rias was the one who killed raynare, ise just KO'ed her, part of his trauma was also the fact that his current love interest killed his former girlfriend

That's just another part of Ise's emotional growth stopping.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-04, 11:14
Saji is going to have a major break down when Ise calls Sona by her name after the battle.:D

Lol yeah I can see that happening especially after he earn balance breaker and still can'y progress. Raise the Sona flag and hope she joins the harem.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-04, 11:31
Lol yeah I can see that happening especially after he earn balance breaker and still can'y progress. Raise the Sona flag and hope she joins the harem.

I really hope she doesn't get into Issei's harem. I don't think Rias would approve for one and I would lose a ton of respect for Issei if he did allow her into the harem. He would be a horrible horrible friend to Saji. Its one thing to find humor in Saji's struggle to get with the girl he loves but it is a completely different thing to have Saji's best male friend take the girl he loves. Issei is really into protecting his comrades. Saji and him are comrades of a sort. I don't think the author would make Issei backstab his friend.

kikix
2014-03-04, 11:45
That trauma was due to the events in vol 1 when ise's first girlfriend Raynare killed him and asia, that trauma got resolved in vol 10.I know that. However, trauma doesn't just disappear like that. It is impossible to just return to living like before getting it, whether it is overcame or not.

Issei, as a result of long-lasting effect of that trauma, will be more careful than before. It's a lesson learned the hard way. Part of that carefulness could (and probably is) his attempt to avoid imagining things that look "too good to be true". And that means he probably does not think that Rias would want to marry him so soon.

(...)part of his trauma was also the fact that his current love interest killed his former girlfriendI honestly doubt that the fact of Rias killing Raynale have anything to do with Issei's trauma. Seeing the death of his first "girlfriend"?! Yes, maybe. Rais being the one doing the killing?! I doubt.

“Goodbye, my love. Buchou, I’m at my limit…… Will you please……”Issei, by that time, accepted that he never was Raynales boyfriend. After what she did to him and, more importantly, Asia, he actually began hating her by that time. Of course, there were still conflicting feelings inside him. He really saw her as his first girlfriend. But I don't think that granted the magnitude of rage he reached, he could have trauma related to Rias for that. For a trauma like that to be made, he'd need to have it against Rias that she killed the fallen angel. He never did. Not even then.



As for Issei and Sona...as far as it is now, he have no idea he does have a harem. It's not like he could be blamed if Sona got a crush on him and started to act on it (thus "entering his harem"). That being said, I'm not sure Sona will ever fall in love with Issei to the extent where she'd want to join it.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-04, 12:01
I really hope she doesn't get into Issei's harem. I don't think Rias would approve for one and I would lose a ton of respect for Issei if he did allow her into the harem. He would be a horrible horrible friend to Saji. Its one thing to find humor in Saji's struggle to get with the girl he loves but it is a completely different thing to have Saji's best male friend take the girl he loves. Issei is really into protecting his comrades. Saji and him are comrades of a sort. I don't think the author would make Issei backstab his friend.

Yeah but I think one of the spoiler quotes was Saji saying "I can't be Hyoudou Issei" or something so he maybe getting ready to give up on Sona as he can't do the things Issei can. As for Rias she might approve as she knows she is number one and Issei can attract lots of girls. Plus I think she would be kinda used to it as I am pretty sure in one of the earlier volumes or short stories when talking about Sona they said Son always used to take Rias's things Also it would add a lot of interestind situations as I am sure Sona would like to get a decent rank and is smarter then all the other girls so she can manipulate/dominate them

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-04, 12:03
As for Issei and Sona...as far as it is now, he have no idea he does have a harem. It's not like he could be blamed if Sona got a crush on him and started to act on it (thus "entering his harem"). That being said, I'm not sure Sona will ever fall in love with Issei to the extent where she'd want to join it.

True. He can't prevent her from crushing on him. But as the saying goes, "It takes two to tango". I'm taking about things like kissing her or going on dates with her. I don't really consider the girls who haven't kissed him, slept with him, or dated him as a true member of his harem. Abe has a crush on Issei but she isn't really part of his harem.

But anyways. Sona doesn't seem the kind of girl who falls in love easily. All the other girls fell in love pretty quickly. With the exception of Rose. I can see Sona being single at the end of the series.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-04, 12:12
Abe has a crush on Issei but she isn't really part of his harem. I can see Sona being single at the end of the series.

Maybe Abe will be part of Issei's peerage when he gets his evil pieces. After all her knowledge about magical creature and taming skills could come in handy. I really hope not as I find Sona to be one of my favourite characters that is why I want her to at least get a crush on Issei so that we get to see more of her and her emotional side.

aw454wtr
2014-03-04, 12:20
Who knows the author might throw in a twist and have sona fall for raizer, afterall both of them are high class devils from noble houses, it's practically a must for noble house devils to get married

DragonKing0117
2014-03-04, 12:34
Who knows the author might throw in a twist and have sona fall for raizer, afterall both of them are high class devils from noble houses, it's practically a must for noble house devils to get married

No, just no. Please don't ever mention something like that again. He may not be as bad as he was before but Sona x Riser is something I believe a lot of fans would disapprove.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-04, 12:40
No, just no. Please don't ever mention something like that again. He may not be as bad as he was before but Sona x Riser is something I believe a lot of fans would disapprove.

Yup its a no to Yakitori. Definitely want her to be with Issei. He may not have the brains that Sona is looking for but he can do lots of things that she can't like solving all Rias's problems. I think she need to set her standards a little lower and then she would realise that Saji or Issei would be good for her

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-04, 12:46
Maybe Abe will be part of Issei's peerage when he gets his evil pieces. After all her knowledge about magical creature and taming skills could come in handy. I really hope not as I find Sona to be one of my favourite characters that is why I want her to at least get a crush on Issei so that we get to see more of her and her emotional side.

True. It would be interesting to see Sona show emotions. Thats why I am looking forward to volume 17. We get to see her show emotion (crying over Saji) but I don't think she needs to fall for Issei. I think she will probably start showing up in the series a lot more. She is part of DxD now. I think we will be seeing a lot more of the DxD members seeing as they might have to fight 666. I am really hoping to see more of the members that don't generally show up like Seekvaire Agares and Slash Dog.

aw454wtr
2014-03-04, 12:58
Yup its a no to Yakitori. Definitely want her to be with Issei. He may not have the brains that Sona is looking for but he can do lots of things that she can't like solving all Rias's problems. I think she need to set her standards a little lower and then she would realise that Saji or Issei would be good for her

That depends if the sitri house would even allow Sona to marry someone that is not from a noble house, only the gremory house treats their servants well,

the sitri house could just treat servants as just that, servants, the current heads of the sitri house would not allow Saji to marry Sona, they would insist on her groom being a pure high class/ultimate class devil from another noble house

GBFirestorm
2014-03-04, 13:09
That depends if the sitri house would even allow Sona to marry someone that is not from a noble house, only the gremory house treats their servants well,

the sitri house could just treat servants as just that, servants, the current heads of the sitri house would not allow Saji to marry Sona, they would insist on her groom being a pure high class/ultimate class devil from another noble house

Maybe at the point Sona is going to marry Issei will be a high/ultimate class devil so he would have a title. Don't forget dragon blood and traits are greatly desired for the strength in them and devils love strength. With Issei's body being made fro Ophis and Great Red the two most powerful dragons/beings coupled with the Heavenly Dragon Ddraig's soul he has the potential to be the ultimate dragon so is a hot breeding prospect. Searafall Sona's sister can still have children to carry on the Sitri name as well.

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 13:24
Sona is already in love with our idiot, but it's not a romantic love it's a love that comes from respect and admiration. Sona saw what Ise did for Rias, Kiba and the girls. She knows how Ise is but she see how he lives his life when it come to the things he cares about, and she sees what it costs him.

Kaichou smiles at me who is feeling down.

“There isn’t a single reason for you to be apologizing, Ise-kun. You are the hero who saved the Underworld. For the part where you can’t give your all, we will just have to make up for it. Also, you worked too hard within this short period of time. Truly, you worked so hard that I am ashamed at myself and feel that we were lacking in strength.”

Sona-Kaichou takes my hand.

“That’s why, we will lead you today. I’m not Rias, but please trust me for now.”

For Sona who is very aware of her status as a high class devil to put that much emotion and caring towards Ise show her love for him.

In some ways Sona is closer to Ise than she is to Rias.

kikix
2014-03-04, 14:11
There are devils that go against their own houses, more or less. Sairaorg being one. Sirzechs and Rias being two more. Grayfia being yet another one. Heck, Grayfia actually did betray a whole faction for her love.

If Sona would really fall in love with Saji or Issei, she'd surely follow it up, especially since I can't imagine Serafall and Sirzechs not supporting her.

That being said, Issei have a lot going for him. Not only the legendary longinus, which evolves in ways that it never did before, but he's also the "oppai dragon" which racks in loads of money (and devils are greedy), who's popular in the underworld (fame), who's going to be married to future head of Gremory family (Rias will lead Gremory, since Sirzechs became maou, hence her arranged marriage with Rizer in the first place) and who have considerable support from at least three out of four maou and leaders of some other factions. Then there's also magician he'll make contract with in volume 17, being Le Fay. A high-class magician that mastered various types of magic and is able to summon a legendary weapon of gods, Gogmagog. And I'm pretty sure she's a descendand of a legendary character too, Morgana Le Fay.

Remember that Vali and Issei were given quite an important position in the negotiations for truce between the three factions. And Issei was then merely a rookie devil. His status is far higher than just a "mid-rank devil pawn".

The fact that his body is made from Great Red and Ophis however is no argument. Not many people know about that. No one outside the close circle is allowed to know, at least about Ophis' involvement. She IS considered leader of the terrorists, as it is now.

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 14:45
@kikix, what do you mean by "go against there houses".

There are devils that go against their own houses, more or less. Sairaorg being one. Sirzechs and Rias being two more. Grayfia being yet another one. Heck, Grayfia actually did betray a whole faction for her love.

b10nutz
2014-03-04, 14:51
I don't think Sona will just obey the head of the family. It was already mention that she defeated the one that her family choose for her to marry in a Chess Match and refused him, and that she wants to follow Rias example.

kikix
2014-03-04, 15:20
@kikix, what do you mean by "go against there houses".I meant that they did not follow their families will.
Sairaorg defeated the future head of Bael family to take his place which was taken away from him due to lacking Baels power of destruction (Sairaorg is the "rightfull heir" to my knowledge).
Sirzechs "left the family" and became maou (which probably had its share of support), but he also fell in love and married an enemy (Grayfia).
Rias tried the rating game to break engagement with Rizer. She was supposed to marry him earlier, but she kept refusing time and time again. What is in the story is just the time when she was given an ultimatum.
Then of course, the engagement was broken off by Issei. And she began nurturing feelings towards her servant. Well, that though had its own share of support as well.
Grayfia did betray her family, her faction and sided with Sirzechs in making the new underworld order.

All of these characters went against what the family wanted for them by strength of will and character...or just by hard work. And their choices were in the end accepted. Though, Sairaorg lost it when he lost to Issei. Maybe he did regain the right again by now, though. I don't remember.

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 16:59
Ahhh I see what you were trying to say now.

Rias just didn't start having feelings for her servants because Ise beat Riser her family is famous for having affections towards there servants.

And for Sirzechs to become Maou is the highest honor for the Gremory family.

Sairaorg is still the heir because there is no one to oppose him for the position, he just lost political support.

kikix
2014-03-04, 17:30
Rias just didn't start having feelings for her servants because Ise beat Riser her family is famous for having affections towards there servants.Being "affectionate" towards servants and falling in love with them are two different things.
Gremory family is simply caring and friendly towards their members. It is Rias, not Gremory Rias that fell in love with Issei.

Also, she felt something for him even before that. Riser just happened to be what caused her to be involved even more, as well as getting the support of the family in the process.

And for Sirzechs to become Maou is the highest honor for the Gremory family.Yes, I know. That's why I said that he got support in that.
However, I'm certain it was not a full support. Becoming a maou, he stopped being politically affiliated with house of Gremory. As a maou, he cannot act in Gremory's stead towards different houses.
Rias would have lower political power than Sirzechs as the head of Gremory family. After all, Rias is just...well, someone with Bael's signature trait. Sirzechs is the underworlds hero AND a super devil to boot. He would have actually more political impact for Gremory if he'd stay as a Gremory and became the head of family.
Issei's appearance kinda affected that, but it didn't happen until after Sirzechs Lucifer came into being, keh.

Sairaorg is still the heir because there is no one to oppose him for the position, he just lost political support.When talking with Azazel, he nodded to Azazels question whether he starts from the beginning. Indeed, it may just mean that he's a "heir" without support. But it can also mean that he was refused to be a heir and he had to regain his position again. If it's the latter, he did it pretty quickly as I believe he is considered the heir in later volumes...but hey.
Either way, he had to get the right to become to heir with his own hard work to begin with.

sunsengnim
2014-03-04, 18:36
about issei's trauma it's healing slowly thanks to the girls.
especially asia, akeno, koneko figured out that's the reason and knew it was also their fault for not acting upon it sooner and gave him some confidence by reassuring him their feelings are true.
he's slowly getting more confidence and getting better at handling them all.
give it a few more volumes and we'll see him bloom into the harem king he's meant to be!

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 19:21
Being "affectionate" towards servants and falling in love with them are two different things.
Gremory family is simply caring and friendly towards their members. It is Rias, not Gremory Rias that fell in love with Issei.

Also, she felt something for him even before that. Riser just happened to be what caused her to be involved even more, as well as getting the support of the family in the process.

Yes, I know. That's why I said that he got support in that.
However, I'm certain it was not a full support. Becoming a maou, he stopped being politically affiliated with house of Gremory. As a maou, he cannot act in Gremory's stead towards different houses.
Rias would have lower political power than Sirzechs as the head of Gremory family. After all, Rias is just...well, someone with Bael's signature trait. Sirzechs is the underworlds hero AND a super devil to boot. He would have actually more political impact for Gremory if he'd stay as a Gremory and became the head of family.
Issei's appearance kinda affected that, but it didn't happen until after Sirzechs Lucifer came into being, keh.

When talking with Azazel, he nodded to Azazels question whether he starts from the beginning. Indeed, it may just mean that he's a "heir" without support. But it can also mean that he was refused to be a heir and he had to regain his position again. If it's the latter, he did it pretty quickly as I believe he is considered the heir in later volumes...but hey.
Either way, he had to get the right to become to heir with his own hard work to begin with.

When the fathers talked they admitted they were wrong.

“......No, I also forced my greed onto my daughter.”

That vindicates Ise's actions in saving Rias.

You sure put down Rias as going to be a weak leader of the Gremory clan as just "someone with Bael's signature trait", so with your statement that would put Sirzechs in the same boat because he has the Same Bael trait. So its the same you give no proof now that Rias will be a weak Family head.

Azazel's talk with Ise pretty much shows nothing has changed.

“How about the seat for the next-heir for house of Great-King?”

“That hasn’t changed yet. I don’t know how the house of Great-King will move, but even if he doesn’t have the power of destruction he is someone with that high calibre, so they can’t just reject him also because of how society will see it as well.”

I see, so the seat for the next heir for the house of Great-King hasn’t changed yet. I feel a bit relieved.

But its all good just a difference of opinions.

G147
2014-03-04, 20:22
If Sirzechs isn't still related to the Gremory, Millicas wouldn't have inherited the Gremory name. They took over the name of the Maou to serve as leaders of the Devils, it doesn't mean they abandon their clan and family. Sirzechs still stays in the Gremory territory.

Sairaorg is like what others are saying, he just lost support not position.

kikix
2014-03-04, 21:49
When the fathers talked they admitted they were wrong.But they wouldn't admit it if Issei didn't do it. That's what I'm saying. The family was made to adapt to Rias and Issei, not the other way around. We're not talking about whether Issei changed their minds. We're talking about whether they went against them in the first place. Which they did.

You sure put down Rias as going to be a weak leader of the Gremory clan as just "someone with Bael's signature trait", so with your statement that would put Sirzechs in the same boat because he has the Same Bael trait. So its the same you give no proof now that Rias will be a weak Family head.Huh?! Please, reread my post. You have missed virtually everything I wrote in that part, except that Rias have the trait of Bael.

First, I didn't say Rias would be weak leader. I said that she would be weaker leader than Sirzechs. Since Sirzechs is trusted by ALL families, enough to be maou Lucifer, being known to have the strongest peerage...it's 100% clear that his political influence is great. Do you really think that saying that someone is worse leader than the BEST leader in the world of devils mean that they are weak?

Also, I gave "proof" of that. Let's see what advantages and disadvantages they had before.

Rias: Bael family trait, fallen-angel/devil priestess, blade blacksmith user, half-vampire/devil with forbidden balor view, nekomata/devil without any particular traits (at the time), born high-class devil.

Sirzechs: Bael family trait, hero of the war, maou Lucifer candidate, probably few hundreds years worth of life experience, born high-class devil, one of three super devils, husband and king to the strongest queen, ultimate rook with immense strength (which was said to be enough to defeat Jabberwocky on his own if he'd use it well) that couldn't be controlled even by gods, dragon/devil rook (Bahamut), magic expert that founded one of the major magician organizations capable to use expertly all kinds of magic, one of the fastest and best swordsmen in the underworld with youkais infesting his body, a hero turned to pawn that is considered one of five best pawns in the underworld, a mythical beast/devil that is said to bring good fortune to households it visits, close friends with at least one more maou candidate that is also a super devil.

Now then...who do you think would have greater political power? A teenager that didn't make much of a name for herself or a person known probably to every single devil in the underworld that have become their hero?!

But its all good just a difference of opinions.Well, I didn't say that Sairaorg did lose his status. I just didn't remember anything beyond that talk with Azazel where he said he had to start all over again. So I said that maybe he did lose it.

Well, it seems that he never did after all, though.

If Sirzechs isn't still related to the Gremory, Millicas wouldn't have inherited the Gremory name.Lucifer is more of a title than name. That is why his son have his original name. And it's obvious he's related to Gremory. He was born into and lived as Gremory for years. What I said is that he cannot act on behalf of Gremory household since he became Lucifer. I other words, that he politically stopped being affiliated with Gremory. He's affiliated with maou.

They took over the name of the Maou to serve as leaders of the Devils, it doesn't mean they abandon their clan and family. Sirzechs still stays in the Gremory territory.No one said they abandoned anyone. But there is a difference between still being in contact or providing personal help and representing on political stage. As a maou, Sirzechs CANNOT act on behalf of Gremory politically. He can help personally and live with Gremory though.
If it would be different, he would still be a heir to the Gremory household while Serafall would be a heiress to Sitri household. But they're not. They cannot, because they chose to lead ALL devils, not only their families. If they became heirs, it would be a clear favoritism which they are not allowed to have.

Please do not mix politics and private life. I didn't touch on the latter at all, just the former. You on the other hand answered as if it was reverse.

G147
2014-03-04, 22:12
kikix, why do you think Rias, Sona and Diodora are called siblings of the Maou. The Maous' clan and the Maou are still linked together, that's why the Gremory who are actually the 56th ranked of the 72 Pillars are viewed as a Top clan, because of Sirzechs is a Maou.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-04, 22:33
kikix, why do you think Rias, Sona and Diodora are called siblings of the Maou. The Maous' clan and the Maou are still linked together, that's why the Gremory who are actually the 56th ranked of the 72 Pillars are viewed as a Top clan, because of Sirzechs is a Maou.

Actually, the reason the Gremory clan is ranked so high is not because of the relation to Maou but because they are one of the surviving pure blood families from the 72 pillars. They may have originally been lower in rank but because so many of the families went extinct their status was raised. Sirzechs is politically separate from the Gremory clan.

They call Rias, Sona, and Diodora siblings of Maou because they are the siblings of the Maous. Just because someone has left the family doesn't mean that you stop being their sibling. You are still their sibling by blood. That doesn't mean the Maous can politically help their family. Although, the fact that they are the siblings of the Maou socially reflects on the Maous. Thats why Rias's mother tells Rias not to be so selfish because it reflects poorly on her brother.

kusabireika
2014-03-04, 23:03
Actually, the reason the Gremory clan is ranked so high is not because of the relation to Maou but because they are one of the surviving pure blood families from the 72 pillars. They may have originally been lower in rank but because so many of the families went extinct their status was raised. Sirzechs is politically separate from the Gremory clan.

They call Rias, Sona, and Diodora siblings of Maou because they are the siblings of the Maous. Just because someone has left the family doesn't mean that you stop being their sibling. You are still their sibling by blood. That doesn't mean the Maous can politically help their family. Although, the fact that they are the siblings of the Maou socially reflects on the Maous. Thats why Rias's mother tells Rias not to be so selfish because it reflects poorly on her brother.

does Zephyrdor included too... i wonder ? the sibling of the current asmodeus ?

kikix
2014-03-04, 23:03
They may have originally been lower in rank but because so many of the families went extinct their status was raised. Sirzechs is politically separate from the Gremory clan.They never were lower status. Their status always was high. Dukes are right below monarchs while Gremory always were dukes. 72 pillars were taken straight from lesser keys of Solomon.

kikix, why do you think Rias, Sona and Diodora are called siblings of the Maou.As was said, they are siblings of maou. You once again mix political affiliation and private affiliation. As I said, privately nothing changed. They are still family and everyone sees them as family.
It is in politics that titles and affiliations matter.


The Maous' clan and the Maou are still linked together, that's why the Gremory who are actually the 56th ranked of the 72 Pillars are viewed as a Top clan, because of Sirzechs is a Maou.Gremory never was ranked 56 out of 72. That's because...it's not a ranking. It is simply a list. There is no reason for the order, other than the fact that it is the order they were written down. That's why there are kings low on the list.

Also Gremory in Highschool DxD seems to be one of the wealthiest families. And wealth equals power to devils. Lucifer had little if any influence on the status of Gremory as a family. They simply are one of the strongest and most influential families. Like Phoenix/Phenex is thanks to their obvious monopoly on Phoenix Tears.

Tbolt
2014-03-04, 23:05
Lets lighten up a little with your choice.

In the next battle who would you pair up from the ORC, you can use Ravel and Irina.

For me:
Rias/Asia
Koneko/Ravel
Ise/Gasper
Kiba/Irina
Akeno/Xenovia

it_happens
2014-03-04, 23:05
First, I didn't say Rias would be weak leader. I said that she would be weaker leader than Sirzechs. Since Sirzechs is trusted by ALL families, enough to be maou Lucifer, being known to have the strongest peerage...it's 100% clear that his political influence is great. Do you really think that saying that someone is worse leader than the BEST leader in the world of devils mean that they are weak?

-- Yes that's true but which Rias are you talking about because if it's rias in the beginning of DxD than yes definitely Sirzechs .

Also, I gave "proof" of that. Let's see what advantages and disadvantages they had before.

Rias: Bael family trait, fallen-angel/devil priestess, blade blacksmith user, half-vampire/devil with forbidden balor view, nekomata/devil without any particular traits (at the time), born high-class devil.

-- Well if your talking Rias from the start then no this is wrong, the only thing rias had was the POD and was born pure blood devil, Akeno didn't accept her fallen angel side so didn't use that power she was using thunder, Kiba didn't possess the quality to weild holy swords so he didn't have blade blacksmith but instead had sword birth, even though Gasper was apart of Rias peerage he couldn't control his power and she couldn't either so he was sealed and a non-factor, Koneko was just like akeno and didn't accept or feared (i don't remember) her power so she didn't use her nekomata power.

-- BUT, If your talking about present rias than your leaving things out for example Kiba now has holy demonic swords, blade blacksmith, sword birth, and 6 legendary swords ( Demonic Emperor Sword Gram,Etc,Etc). Akeno now uses the power of he holy lightning, Gasper now can control his Sacred Gear power has potential to evolve into new longinus and has power of sealed evil god balor, Koneko now uses her nekomata power and even uses help from her object of trauma (kuroka) to help further her strength, She now has Aisa who has the most advanced healing ability and is contracted to a Dragon King, Also has now Xenovia who is the natural wielder of the legendary sword durandal and has the 7 pieces of excalibur, There's now rose ( cannot spell her name no mater what :upset: ) who is an expert magic user has knowledge of the great tree thingy ( from the norse that everyone wants ), AND THEN there's Ise who is the sekiryutei, body made from great red and ophis . . . blah blah I think everyone knows what ise brings to the table already.

Sirzechs: Bael family trait, hero of the war, maou Lucifer candidate, probably few hundreds years worth of life experience, born high-class devil, one of three super devils, husband and king to the strongest queen, ultimate rook with immense strength (which was said to be enough to defeat Jabberwocky on his own if he'd use it well) that couldn't be controlled even by gods, dragon/devil rook (Bahamut), magic expert that founded one of the major magician organizations capable to use expertly all kinds of magic, one of the fastest and best swordsmen in the underworld with youkais infesting his body, a hero turned to pawn that is considered one of five best pawns in the underworld, a mythical beast/devil that is said to bring good fortune to households it visits, close friends with at least one more maou candidate that is also a super devil.

Now then...who do you think would have greater political power? A teenager that didn't make much of a name for herself or a person known probably to every single devil in the underworld that have become their hero?!

--- Again this comes down to which rias your comparing them to the rias from the start of DxD or the rias now ? the rias from the start then ofcourse no way, if its the rias now then still no but i won't consider her a "kid who made no name for herself" since even though ise is the one who solves most problems, rias his master will receive praise by default. But then again here is a question for you what about future rias ? because without a doubt rias in the future may not be more powerful then sirzech but her peerage can be which could give her more influence and justify support for her among the gremory supporter.

G147
2014-03-04, 23:24
Here:

グレモリー家 (Gremory)
現ルシファーを輩出した名門。元72柱56位。
強力な魔力と、紅い髪を持つのが特徴。
深い情愛を持ち、眷属を慈しむ一族。その分「身内」に手を出された場合、その怒りは凄まじい。
日本の本州と同程度の面積の領土を持ち、広大な眷属用の城を幾つも持つ。領地の特産品は非常に評判がよく産 業も発達しており非常に豊か。また、人間界にも秘密裏に進出しており、ホテルを運営していたりする他、最近 では冥界の大ヒット番組「乳龍帝おっぱいドラゴン」の著作権を初め、関連商品を大々的に売り出すなどして新 たな収入源を得ている。

アスタロト家 (Astaroth)
現ベルゼブブを輩出した名門。元72柱29位。
次期当主であったディオドラが禍の団に通じていたこともあり、現当主が解任された上、次期魔王を輩出する権 利を失う。

シトリー家 (Sitri)
現レヴィアタンを輩出した名門。元72柱12位。

グラシャラボラス家 (Glasya-Labolas)
現アスモデウスを輩出した名門。元72柱25位。
次期当主が事故死しており、行状には問題のあるゼファードルが繰り上がりで次期当主になり、さらに当人がレ ーティングゲームで再起不能になるなど、先行き不安な状況に陥っている。

All the clans from the Maous are from upper halve. Only the Gremory.

kikix
2014-03-04, 23:49
G147, the fact that three other maou's are from the first halve means nothing. As I said, it is not ranking of power or influence. It's just an order they were written down in the source they come from. Probably only Bael (Baal) can be actually considered on 1# for his power/influence. The rest, not so much. But then again, Bael doesn't even have a maou.

-- Yes that's true but which Rias are you talking about because if it's rias in the beginning of DxD than yes definitely Sirzechs.From beginning. Though even now I think Sirzechs, even if you'd take his maou status, is a lot more influential figure. Except with kids, for which Issei and Rias are far better.

(...) Akeno didn't accept her fallen angel side so didn't use that power she was using thunder, Kiba didn't possess the quality to weild holy swords so he didn't have blade blacksmith but instead had sword birth, even though Gasper was apart of Rias peerage he couldn't control his power and she couldn't either so he was sealed and a non-factor, Koneko was just like akeno and didn't accept or feared (i don't remember) her power so she didn't use her nekomata power.The fact that Akeno and Koneko didn't use their species abilities doesn't make it non-factor. Simply knowing that they come from such bloodlines is enough. After all, it was a fair expectation that they would eventually use them.
Similarly Gasper. He was sealed because at that time he was too dangerous. But that fact alone did show that he was valuable piece in her political arsenal. He was so powerful and feared that he needed to be sealed. Simply knowing that would bring influence.

For Kiba...I never remembered the name...They seem all the same to me...I'm no good with names, keh.

-- BUT, If your talking about present rias than your leaving things out(...)Nope, I've been talking about pre-story Rias, as said above. That's why I left out all the newer political bonuses.
My comparison was made for the sake of showing why some of the Gremory could be against Sirzechs Gremory taking the title/name of Lucifer, which would separate him from the Gremory house politics, despite the obvious priviledge of having one of their own become a maou.

There's now rose ( cannot spell her name no mater what :upset: )(...)Her original name have german letter, I believe. Though it's written as "ss" when the symbol is unavailable. Anyway, I just checked up on her in wiki ("Rossweisse") and...it reminded me of a funny fact...Issei called her "vomiting valkyrie"...I wonder what her grandmother would think of her if she'd hear that "nick" which Rose's boyfriend gave her...

But then again here is a question for you what about future rias ? because without a doubt rias in the future may not be more powerful then sirzech but her peerage can be which could give her more influence and justify support for her among the gremory supporter.Yes, I think that in future, Rias may actually garner influence comparable to that of Sirzechs. Largely thanks to Issei.
But even now, as you mentioned, she have a lot on her thanks to Issei and his "wonderful" ability to draw a lot of attention.
Winning youth in a youth ranking game which had the most promising youths in a long time was the beginning. Issei who would be now a high-ranking devil already (after few months since reincarnation) if not for the devils sticking to tradition and Sirzechs/Azazel wanting him to grow more mature certainly helps.

Then there's breaking down the Hero Brigade, killing off Jabberwocky, various contacts with other factions, participating in defeat of Loki and all that stuff did give her some name. Oppai Dragon franchise also have her as prominent figure of the Switch Princess which reaches the kids in the underworld.

If we'll look further into the future, taking part in defeating Rizevim Lucifer and dealing with (we still don't know how) with 666 will be a great achievement. All the members of the team also have a lot going for them, including holy and demonic swords (original ones) that rank among the highest in their categories. Then further, their contacts with dragon kings

I think Rias will end up in a position similar to Sirzechs in the future, but she will not suprass him. He and his peerage are really powerful and unique and he does have now his actions as maou to add. He's also one of the major figures between the alliance, which did benefit the current maous ways more than it did for Rias.

Swordstriker21
2014-03-05, 02:05
About the SajixSonaxIssei thing we have going here don't you think it would be kinda interesting to see some adolescent drama w/ the trio. Here's what I have in mind:

Sona finds herself more and more attracted to Issei and can't help it but tries to hold herself back cuz of her friendship w/ Rias w/c sorta crimps her social interactions w/ both Rias and Issei. Rias notices this but is conflicted herself. Issei is as oblivious as ever. But here comes "game changer" time when by some situation Sona finds herself alone w/ Issei and ends up more or less confessing.

At first Issei is at a loss but is forced to admit that he does indeed like Sona as a girl. But he tries to distance himself from her because he's considering Rias feelings not to mention Sajis. He tries to be a good bro but all he does is put things off and it takes a toll on Sona.

Now here's the twist: Saji confronts Issei and asks him face to face, man to man, devil to devil if he likes Sona. Issei tries to give excuses but Saji doesn't wanna her any of it and they brawl it out. Saji pours his heart out and tells Issei he's liked Sona since day one and would give anything to be w/ her and be the one to make her smile. But day in and day out he is forced to see what hes doesn't want to see and after the most recent events is forced to admit that the only one who could truly make Sona smile is Issei. So he pleads and begs Issei to answer Sonas feelings and be true to himself cuz it pains him the most to see Sonas sad face but adds if he ever makes Sona cry Saji would kill him.

Issei is silent and replies "OK" after a bit and walks away. Saji is left in silence. Issei hears a cry filled w/ conflicting emotions in the distance....

lived_1714
2014-03-05, 02:49
About the SajixSonaxIssei thing we have going here don't you think it would be kinda interesting to see some adolescent drama w/ the trio. Here's what I have in mind:

Sona finds herself more and more attracted to Issei and can't help it but tries to hold herself back cuz of her friendship w/ Rias w/c sorta crimps her social interactions w/ both Rias and Issei. Rias notices this but is conflicted herself. Issei is as oblivious as ever. But here comes "game changer" time when by some situation Sona finds herself alone w/ Issei and ends up more or less confessing.

At first Issei is at a loss but is forced to admit that he does indeed like Sona as a girl. But he tries to distance himself from her because he's considering Rias feelings not to mention Sajis. He tries to be a good bro but all he does is put things off and it takes a toll on Sona.

Now here's the twist: Saji confronts Issei and asks him face to face, man to man, devil to devil if he likes Sona. Issei tries to give excuses but Saji doesn't wanna her any of it and they brawl it out. Saji pours his heart out and tells Issei he's liked Sona since day one and would give anything to be w/ her and be the one to make her smile. But day in and day out he is forced to see what hes doesn't want to see and after the most recent events is forced to admit that the only one who could truly make Sona smile is Issei. So he pleads and begs Issei to answer Sonas feelings and be true to himself cuz it pains him the most to see Sonas sad face but adds if he ever makes Sona cry Saji would kill him.

Issei is silent and replies "OK" after a bit and walks away. Saji is left in silence. Issei hears a cry filled w/ conflicting emotions in the distance....

Nope, I don't like this one, Saji is good with Sona, they should be together, it's also a reason to show that Sona, as a High-class devil, can marry the one she loves, for the good of Saji, too. There's a way that Saji has to either improve his chess playing ability, or try to show Serafall that he's capable of making Sona happy, and become a strong Devil.

Though seeing Serafall falls for Saji, is also a nice twist.

bones
2014-03-05, 03:10
She doesn't love him though, she has been growing closer to Issei in the past few volumes. The problem with Sona x Saji is that Sona has already stated that she doesn't see him as boyfriend but as a little brother. The author could have used Saji's battle in this volume as a way to bring them closer but he stopped short of that. Which pretty much speaks volumes about who he intends for her to end up with. Personally, I would rather she be Issei as the alternative would place Sona in the sidekick character team and I would rather see more of her than less

sunsengnim
2014-03-05, 03:23
She doesn't love him though, she has been growing closer to Issei in the past few volumes. The problem with Sona x Saji is that Sona has already stated that she doesn't see him as boyfriend but as a little brother. The author could have used Saji's battle in this volume as a way to bring them closer but he stopped short of that. Which pretty much speaks volumes about who he intends for her to end up with. Personally, I would rather she be Issei as the alternative would place Sona in the sidekick character team and I would rather see more of her than less

i completely agree if he wanted to hook up sona and saji he would've done so by now.
he even created the perfect opportunity in volume 17 and went lolnope saji!

so either he's planning on making her fall in love with issei or she's just gonna stay alone while saji keeps trying forever and then she falls in love with someone else and saji kills him and then becomes a fugitive and after that issei is gonna have to put him down as a last act of their friendship.

so yeah issei x sona im all for it or he can just completely begin ignoring sona's group wich also works but is kinda sad since sona is a good character and doesn't deserve a side side kick character spot.

Direwolf18
2014-03-05, 05:10
I personally think its going to be Sona x Saji and one of the major catalysts is going to be the events in this chapter. Not every relationship needs to be the love at first sight thing. I would be really disappointed actually if it doesn't go that route.

Tbolt
2014-03-05, 07:06
In a spoiler it said Sona cries and was happy Saji reached BB and help save the school but it's not tears of affection or love.

sky black swordman
2014-03-05, 08:39
As far as Issei going after Sona is concerned that not likely to happen. Issei thinks of Sona as a friend and nothing more. Issei admires and respects Sona and may even think she attractive but he does not have romantic feelings for her. Issei would never make a move her because he knows that his (and Sona's servant) friend Saji is in love with Sona. When the opportunity presents itself Issei goes out of his way to help Saji by point Sona in Saji's direction. For example, when Sona considered getting a boyfriend Issei recommended Saji but she reject his choice. For reasons that she sees as a younger brother and two members of her group have feelings for him and would not make on him because of it.

Sona falling for Issei and going after him is another story.

about issei's trauma it's healing slowly thanks to the girls.
especially asia, akeno, koneko figured out that's the reason and knew it was also their fault for not acting upon it sooner and gave him some confidence by reassuring him their feelings are true.
he's slowly getting more confidence and getting better at handling them all.
give it a few more volumes and we'll see him bloom into the harem king he's meant to be!Yeah, it is somewhat hard to believe that not a single one of the girls (including Rias) realized that Issei had stiil not recovered emotionally and psychologically from his ordeal with Raynare. Despite the fact that (according to Akeno) Issei would occasionally look at them with eyes full of fear. Poor guy felt that if he did something weird to them they would hate or ridicule him or that they may do the same thing that Raynare did to him.

Chris38
2014-03-05, 08:56
Regarding Ise's trauma ... I think that after the events of volume 10, he is slowly getting over it.

It might be slow paced, but you can see the improvement when you look at Ise's interactions with the girls around him and compare it with how he behaved before volume 10 occurred.

And I believe that volume 17 is going to provide even more evidence that Ise is recovering from his trauma, considering the fact that Rossweisse is going to announce herself as Ise's girlfriend in it...

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-05, 09:25
I would rather she be Issei as the alternative would place Sona in the sidekick character team and I would rather see more of her than less

Sona is a side character for one thing. And even if she falls for Issei it is not guaranteed that she will get any screen time. Look at poor Irina who is barely going to get here screen time in volume 18. Also, Sona has already gotten quiet a lot of screen time compared to other characters (more than Irina). Plus she is part of the antiterrorist group DxD: comprised of the rookie 4 youth devils, The Vali Team, The Joker of Heaven, and Slash Dog. I don't think the author would have gone to the trouble of creating this group if he was just going to ignore these characters and not give them any screen time.

bones
2014-03-05, 10:17
Sona is a side character for one thing. And even if she falls for Issei it is not guaranteed that she will get any screen time. Look at poor Irina who is barely going to get here screen time in volume 18. Also, Sona has already gotten quiet a lot of screen time compared to other characters (more than Irina). Plus she is part of the antiterrorist group DxD: comprised of the rookie 4 youth devils, The Vali Team, The Joker of Heaven, and Slash Dog. I don't think the author would have gone to the trouble of creating this group if he was just going to ignore these characters and not give them any screen time.

I don't think she's going to get any screen time just because she's part of DxD, the ones more likely to get screen time are Vali's team, Dulio and Slash Dog. The thing is Sona has something that no one else has, tactics. We saw in an earlier volume what a excellent tactician can do with a extraordinarily powerful team. Irina by contrast doesn't really offer anything unique.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-05, 10:46
I don't think she's going to get any screen time just because she's part of DxD, the ones more likely to get screen time are Vali's team, Dulio and Slash Dog. The thing is Sona has something that no one else has, tactics. We saw in an earlier volume what a excellent tactician can do with a extraordinarily powerful team. Irina by contrast doesn't really offer anything unique.

Thats exactly my point. She gets a lot of screen time because of her tactics. There is no need for her to be in love with anyone in order to get screen time. She is the best tactician in DxD. So it is almost guaranteed that she will get screen time. I see Dulio and Slash Dog getting screen time but definitely not as much as Sona. After all, Sona goes to the same school as the Gremory. She has shown up in almost every volume either by being mentioned or playing a role in the plot of the volume. (Being in love with Issei does not equal lots of screen time).

bones
2014-03-05, 10:53
It's her tactical ability that makes her a unique character but that doesn't guarantee her screen time. The guessing game the author created that keeps fans wondering who she'll pick to be her boyfriend does.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-05, 11:18
It's her tactical ability that makes her a unique character but that doesn't guarantee her screen time. The guessing game the author created that keeps fans wondering who she'll pick to be her boyfriend does.

Yup. Guessing on who her boyfriend will be keeps interest in her as a character. I personally would kind of enjoy if she remained a strong single female character. She is single right now and she has already shown/been mentioned in every volume except 1 and 8.

ObsidianFrost
2014-03-05, 12:19
In Volume 6 Issei trigged the incomplete JUGGERNAUT DRIVE, and even Vali's is said to be incomplete. Im just wondering if ultimatley to harness the full power of BG or DD is to achieve the Complete Juggernaut Drive. Ddraig said that the past Senpais wherent complete either, so who thinks that the final battle agianst 666 is going to be issei in the complete juggernaut Drive?


Throughout the series when it is mentioned about Issei or even Vali i feel the author has put empathesis on the fact they are not complete. Issei is now able to use Vali's power through stamina reduction isntead of life force reduction so i see it as possible,

They also stated that the Complete Juggernaut Drive is the TRUE power of the Two Heavenly Dragons. It would be awsome to see issei achieve the perfect form, where him an Ddraig become one and the power to destroy God and the Maous is unleashed.

Of course i could be completley wrong jsut thought about that as i was reading the series over.

Chris38
2014-03-05, 12:25
@ObsidianFrost

You are completely wrong, since Ise isn't capable of using Juggernaut Drive anymore.

He can use and master his Cardinal Crimson Queen though, which is the equivalent of Juggernaut Drive that doesn't drain Ise's life force.

And we might see him use a mastered CCQ in the fight against 666 ... although, it most likely won't be the only thing that Ise is going to use in that battle...

Tbolt
2014-03-05, 12:32
The Vali team is a team in name only now because the only ones left in the team are Vali and Arthur.

Arthur gave Le Fay to Ise and when she signs the contract she won't leave Ise.

Azazel puts Rias and Ise in charge of Kuroka and she agrees.

Sun Wukong tells Bikou to come if he calls.

And Ise gets the dog.

Chichiryuushintei
2014-03-05, 12:38
\

And Ise gets the dog.

When? O_O
I don't remember that.

Gary29
2014-03-05, 12:47
When? O_O
I don't remember that.

T'was a joke, plus Le Fay takes care of Fenrir and since Ise and Le Fay will be working together now Ise may become better acquainted with the version of Fenrir-chan that won't kill him.

b10nutz
2014-03-05, 12:56
And Ise gets the dog.

Issei had a good attorney if he even got the dog, Vali can only cry in Arthur's arms after this divorce. :D

Chichiryuushintei
2014-03-05, 13:05
Issei had a good attorney if he even got the dog, Vali can only cry in Arthur's arms after this divorce. :D

That would mean Issei was the woman of the relationship, and he's way too badass to be an Uke.
...
...
Great, now I'm going to have nightmares involving Issei and Vali.

Tbolt
2014-03-05, 13:08
Le Fay has Fenrir, that will be a big surprise to the bad guys when it steps from behind Ise.

kusabireika
2014-03-05, 17:45
Le Fay has Fenrir, that will be a big surprise to the bad guys when it steps from behind Ise.

Have you forgotten Gogmagog too, Le Fay can summon Gogmagog beside fenrir :heehee:
regarding le fay devil contract on issei will it be 1 year or permanent contract, I wonder what will issei learn from his contractee le fay, what research will le fay do on issei? Will she study both dress break and bilingual, will she also research issei body too?, reason why she want issei to have contract with her because she is a fan of ____ dragon :heh:

Jedsada
2014-03-05, 19:15
Have you forgotten Gogmagog too, Le Fay can summon Gogmagog beside fenrir :heehee:
regarding le fay devil contract on issei will it be 1 year or permanent contract, I wonder what will issei learn from his contractee le fay, what research will le fay do on issei? Will she study both dress break and bilingual, will she also research issei body too?, reason why she want issei to have contract with her because she is a fan of ____ dragon :heh:

Le Fay Pendragon's Research Project: Half Human and Dragon Anatomy.
specimen: Her and Issei Baby :D

Tbolt
2014-03-05, 19:29
Have you forgotten Gogmagog too, Le Fay can summon Gogmagog beside fenrir :heehee:
regarding le fay devil contract on issei will it be 1 year or permanent contract, I wonder what will issei learn from his contractee le fay, what research will le fay do on issei? Will she study both dress break and bilingual, will she also research issei body too?, reason why she want issei to have contract with her because she is a fan of ____ dragon :heh:

LOL I didn't forget Gogmagog, I just didn't think Ise would want to take Gogmagog for a walk and can you see Ise picking up his poop and just try and take Gogmagog for a ride and there's no way Ise is letting Gogmagog in the pool.

So he let Vali have it in the settlement.

sunsengnim
2014-03-05, 21:02
OOooh i'd love to see fenrir act like a real dog with issei and he then gets attached and becomes his pet dog!
i mean he did kill his dad loki but who cares i wanna see fenrir act like a good little doggy!

jeez issei got the girls and the dog? and he didn't even need to do anything for it!
we'll you can't really feel sorry for vali he doesn't actually care as long as they help him out when he fights and arthur is happy she's in a safe/happy place next to issei so it all works out!

btw gogmagog is a war machine so it doesn't poop nor does it go swimming so it's safe to say it's only gonna appear very rarily when a big thing is needed.

kikix
2014-03-05, 21:19
Fenrir is a wolf. Not exactly a dog, though not that far off.

Gary29
2014-03-05, 21:49
n0m@n got his v17 hardcopy, yay~

aw454wtr
2014-03-05, 21:49
with fenrir Ise has a Dog, two Cats, a fox and a bird to add to his growing group

kusabireika
2014-03-05, 22:10
with fenrir Ise has a Dog, two Cats, a fox and a bird to add to his growing group

Well issei have also a bat if you add gasper in issei harem :heehee:

Edit: congrats n0m@n gonna wait patiently :T_T:

aw454wtr
2014-03-05, 23:52
Well issei have also a bat if you add gasper in issei harem :heehee:

Edit: congrats n0m@n gonna wait patiently :T_T:

Now if Tiamat gets the hots for him, he can add a dragon.

Imagines Ise getting chased by a huge dragon across japan that is trying to give him valentine chocolates

sunsengnim
2014-03-06, 00:04
Now if Tiamat gets the hots for him, he can add a dragon.

Imagines Ise getting chased by a huge dragon across japan that is trying to give him valentine chocolates

you can just hear the echo of rias's facepalm on that one.

i believe issei would just accept it with a smile and a simple thank you.
we're talking about ishibumi here there's no way tiamat won't have a humanoid form.

aw454wtr
2014-03-06, 02:00
you can just hear the echo of rias's facepalm on that one.

i believe issei would just accept it with a smile and a simple thank you.
we're talking about ishibumi here there's no way tiamat won't have a humanoid form.

Tiamat could be a yandere, that would be comedy gold :D

sunsengnim
2014-03-06, 02:19
Tiamat could be a yandere, that would be comedy gold :D

now you're talking tiamat as a yandere stalker?! im game for that!

imagine this : issei goes to bed with rias and asia.
all the other girls wanna sneak in but guess what? they all freeze after seeing tiamat.
tiamat steals rias's spot without her knowing then issei wakes up starts snuggling tiamat giggles issei realizes it's not rias and he can't get free.
rias wakes up sees the girls frozen at the door see's issei in tiamats arms!
BAM half the city gone because of the ensuing battle!

all the girls would need to team up to have a chance at taking down tiamat!
it would be pure chaos! it's comedy gooooooooooold!!

Tbolt
2014-03-06, 07:14
Ddraig to Ise, be careful partner that b**** is crazy.

Hokoga
2014-03-06, 08:08
now you're talking tiamat as a yandere stalker?! im game for that!

imagine this : issei goes to bed with rias and asia.
all the other girls wanna sneak in but guess what? they all freeze after seeing tiamat.
tiamat steals rias's spot without her knowing then issei wakes up starts snuggling tiamat giggles issei realizes it's not rias and he can't get free.
rias wakes up sees the girls frozen at the door see's issei in tiamats arms!
BAM half the city gone because of the ensuing battle!

all the girls would need to team up to have a chance at taking down tiamat!
it would be pure chaos! it's comedy gooooooooooold!!
Ddraig to Ise, be careful partner that b**** is crazy.

If that happened I wouldn't be able to stop laughing, especially if Ddraig says something like that.:heh:

aw454wtr
2014-03-06, 11:34
Ddraig to Ise, be careful partner that b**** is crazy.

Albion then thank's his lucky stars that Vali is not interested in females or attracts females

coded321
2014-03-06, 12:52
Who is stronger, great red or ophis before she lost her powers? Also what is the lifespan of a devil anyway? At some point in the novel it said their lifespan was eternal, other times it was 10,000 years

XFire
2014-03-06, 13:02
Who is stronger, great red or ophis before she lost her powers? Also what is the lifespan of a devil anyway? At some point in the novel it said their lifespan was eternal, other times it was 10,000 years

They were exactly equal, I believe. They were similiar to the two-heavenly dragons in that regard.

It averages 10,000 years, which Ise and others refer to as almost forever.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-06, 13:06
Who is stronger, great red or ophis before she lost her powers? Also what is the lifespan of a devil anyway? At some point in the novel it said their lifespan was eternal, other times it was 10,000 years

Great Red is assumed to be stronger since Ophis had to create a terrorist organization to try and help her take him own. If she was stronger then him then she wouldn't need help in defeating him.

Devils live for 10,000 years. I think when they reference eternity it is mainly when they are stating that they want to stay together for eternity not that they will actually live for eternity.

b10nutz
2014-03-06, 13:16
Great Red is assumed to be stronger since Ophis had to create a terrorist organization to try and help her take him own. If she was stronger then him then she wouldn't need help in defeating him.

Actually if they were on equal grounds either one would need extra help to defeat the other one.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-06, 13:27
Actually if they were on equal grounds either one would need extra help to defeat each other.

Thats true. If they had the same exact amount of power and had abilities that nullified each others abilities like the two Heavenly Dragons then I suppose they could be even. I suppose we can't know who is more powerful. I find it very unlikely though. Because their powers and abilities would have to be so exactly matched. If one had the slightest amount more power then that one would win. If Great Red was victorious I doubt he would kill Ophis because all he cares about if swimming. On the other hand if Ophis is slightly more powerful then Great Red then he would already be dead because Ophis would kill him. Thats why I at least assume Great Red is more powerful.

kikix
2014-03-06, 13:59
Actually, weaker can be victorious over the stronger. It's not all about power.
When people of similar powers fight, it's a battle to the first mistake of either of them. Unless their powers would entirely nullify each other, but there is no reasonable way to nullify pure attack other than with a barrier sort of skill. But then again, if they had such powerful barriers they could use constantly, then only someone stronger than them could even hope to do anything, meaning they would be invincible no matter how many powerful lackeys either of them got.

So, yeah. Either one of them could probably win with the other. It's probably more of a matter of avoiding collateral (Pyrrhic victory) or minimising ones own risk (since it could go either way) than anything else.

Swordstriker21
2014-03-06, 20:47
Ya know guys, about Tiamat, she's actually regarded as a "creation" goddess related to the ocean that gave birth to many monsters, gods and dragons like Usumgallu in Mesopotamian religion.

Get what that means?......

We have ourselves a dragon MILF gents!!!! If speculations in this here thread come true then she'll be a yandere, MILF humanoid dragon! The possibilities....

sunsengnim
2014-03-06, 21:34
Ya know guys, about Tiamat, she's actually regarded as a "creation" goddess related to the ocean that gave birth to many monsters, gods and dragons like Usumgallu in Mesopotamian religion.

Get what that means?......

We have ourselves a dragon MILF gents!!!! If speculations in this here thread come true then she'll be a yandere, MILF humanoid dragon! The possibilities....

now that would be one heck of an addition to the harem!
i can just imagine the faces the girls would have if tiamat turned out like this.
i think the girls would be in even deeper despair then when they saw grayfia and issei bathing together in the onsen.

ObsidianFrost
2014-03-06, 21:37
If Issei gets a MILF in his harem, im done id be so done, DxD would hands down take the cake for the most badass series in my book.

Swordstriker21
2014-03-06, 21:43
Tiamat goes for Issei. But an obstacle enters the scene: The divorced husband Abzu!

Abzu (apsû) is depicted as a deity in the Babylonian creation epic, the Enûma Elish, taken from the library of Assurbanipal (c 630 BCE) but which is about 500 years older. In this story, he was a primal being made of fresh water and a lover to another primal deity, Tiamat, who was a creature of salt water.

From Wikipedia

Imagine the chaos man!

kikix
2014-03-06, 21:44
Wouldn't technically Kuroka fit the bill...Well, if you need her to actually be a mother, all Issei needs to do is...well...do her. It's not like she haven't been trying to make him do just that anyway...I mean, she wants to have his baby since day 1 of when she came to his house...

Swordstriker21
2014-03-06, 21:47
Wouldn't technically Kuroka fit the bill...Well, if you need her to actually be a mother, all Issei needs to do is...well...do her. It's not like she's been trying to make him do just that anyway...I mean, she wants to have his baby since day 1 of when she came to his house...

Well seeing that the acronym actually means:

Mother/Mom/Mum I'd Like to F*ck

I'm not actually sure if Kuroka fits the archetype. But she IS several years older though:heh:

Tbolt
2014-03-06, 22:08
Man I do not want to see what you guys dream about at night this is scary enough.:twitch:

XFire
2014-03-06, 22:17
I'd like to point out that after they have their first kid, all of Ise's girls would qualify as MILFs

kikix
2014-03-06, 22:40
I'm not actually sure if Kuroka fits the archetype. But she IS several years older though:heh:Actually, it seems to have two definition...One is related to...well...being mother. One, more "loose" on the correction of the term, any attractive woman in her ~30-40.

That being said, I don't know whether Kuroka would fit even this more "forgiving" "definition".

Well...sooner or later all of them will fit it, indeed...

Tbolt
2014-03-06, 22:41
With Ise and Le Fay forming the pact together Ise is going to be set for life. With Le Fays magic and if Rose helps her with the wisdom she obtained in the Norse and the information regarding the world tree Yggdrasil, there is no telling what kind of new magic she will come up with that will have great value to the underworld.

Which will add even more fame to Ise , Le Fay and the whole Gremory clan.

Ultragunner
2014-03-07, 07:17
Who is stronger, great red or ophis before she lost her powers? Also what is the lifespan of a devil anyway? At some point in the novel it said their lifespan was eternal, other times it was 10,000 years

This is quite an interesting question. As you have known, Ophis (before getting nerfed :heh:) is known/called/feared as the "Infinite Dragon God" (Mugen no Ryūshin), and as the name suggests, she (or he before) had unlimited and infinite power. Then who or what can outmatch that? of course, only in "dream", that's when Great Red comes in as he represents Dreams.

I had to applause Ishibumi for such a use of word: The Infinite vs Dream, wow what a match :p. But if I had to pick a side, and as a fanboy of the Red, I'd place my bet on Great Red:heh:. Even when vs 666, I still believe in our True Dragon would prevail.

However, DO keep in mind if any of these three take on another, then consider it the Apocalypse :heh::heh:

aw454wtr
2014-03-07, 07:33
In terms of power, where would have the deceased god of the bible rank, would the god of the bible be in the top ten

Chris38
2014-03-07, 08:16
In terms of power, where would have the deceased god of the bible rank, would the god of the bible be in the top ten

Most likely he would rank in the top ten, since even in a weakened state, due to sealing 666, he managed to keep the Devil and Fallen Angel forces from overwhelming the Haven fraction.

Considering that, personally I'm ranking him slightly lower then Albion and Ddrag at their prime.

sky black swordman
2014-03-07, 08:23
In terms of power, where would have the deceased god of the bible rank, would the god of the bible be in the top ten
God from the Bible was the strongest of all Gods. Including, those from other mythological systems.

If ranked in the top 10, he would be above all other gods (including Indra who is considered the strongest god now that God from the bible is dead) but below heavenly dragons in the prime.

kikix
2014-03-07, 09:07
I don't recall anyone saying that he was strongest of all gods. The fact that he managed to spread his influence in the world so widely is an entirely different thing.

Since the christian god couldn't deal with Albion and Ddraig rampaging, all three christian factions, along with the four maou's and the christian god, had to combine forces to merely seal them...I'm going to say that he may be somewhere on the back end of the top ten.
Rather than have immense power, he was just a wise person with a wide variety of unique powers. That was his advantage.

PS: Christianity have only one god, hence there was no need to say "Including, those from other mythological systems.".

DolphiNM8
2014-03-07, 10:18
God from the Bible was the strongest of all Gods. Including, those from other mythological systems.

If ranked in the top 10, he would be above all other gods (including Indra who is considered the strongest god now that God from the bible is dead) but below heavenly dragons in the prime.

He was preparing war against Shiva the God of Destruction. I would of soloed him. Seems like a shit God to me.

Ultragunner
2014-03-07, 11:51
IMO, (this I have said before, but still), The God from the Bible is not necessarily the mightiest when it comes to combat prowess. Instead, what distinguishes him from the rest is the ability to create something that exceeds his own power.

The Samael Curse is the prime example, this curse or poison is so deadly that it even neutralizes, weakens Ophis and helps Georg stole her power (not to mention it quickly incapacitate the 2 Heavenly Dragons Hosts). This feat is unimaginable for any of the remaining Gods. In exchange, the curse is only limited to dragon/snake-related being.

The seals on 666 is another example. 666 cannot be killed, fair enough, but the God from the Bible still managed to seal him for thousands of years.

XFire
2014-03-07, 12:00
I don't recall anyone saying that he was strongest of all gods. The fact that he managed to spread his influence in the world so widely is an entirely different thing.

Since the christian god couldn't deal with Albion and Ddraig rampaging, all three christian factions, along with the four maou's and the christian god, had to combine forces to merely seal them...I'm going to say that he may be somewhere on the back end of the top ten.
Rather than have immense power, he was just a wise person with a wide variety of unique powers. That was his advantage.

PS: Christianity have only one god, hence there was no need to say "Including, those from other mythological systems.".

He is actually referred to several times as being the "strongest." And this is by people outside of his mythology. He is the only God who is ever said to have power on par with one off the Heavenly Dragons.

Also, they did deal with the Dragons. They sliced them up and stuffed their souls into Sacred Gears. The reason they teamed up was because they couldn't fight each other and the Dragons at the same time.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-07, 12:32
He is actually referred to several times as being the "strongest." And this is by people outside of his mythology. He is the only God who is ever said to have power on par with one off the Heavenly Dragons.

Also, they did deal with the Dragons. They sliced them up and stuffed their souls into Sacred Gears. The reason they teamed up was because they couldn't fight each other and the Dragons at the same time.

Yeah God from the Bible was suppose to be the strongest God. Don't know if he had the power equal to one of the Heavenly dragons but I imagine he did.

Your correct that the three factions couldn't fight each other and the dragons at the same time but it was more because neither side had the strength to actually deal with the dragons on their own. The two Heavenly Dragons interrupted the fight between the three factions without caring. The three sides teamed up so that they could have the strength to seal the two dragons. That means God, the Maous, fallen angels and everyone had to all work together in order to surpass the strength of the two Heavenly Dragons. If one side had tried it on their own, even with out the interference of the other two factions, then they would have been decimated. Even if it had been God and the Heaven side.

kikix
2014-03-07, 15:08
Well, I won't say it's not the case. Though it does sound weird. That'd mean that Ddraig and Albion would be weaker only than Ophis, Great Red and 666.

At the same time, I don't think they were mentioned to be on top of that list. Within the top 10? Certainly. But not necessarily at it's top, right after Ophis.

Well, I guess it could be simply a case of story changing to the authors needs...or my poor memory, keh.

XFire
2014-03-07, 15:21
Well, I won't say it's not the case. Though it does sound weird. That'd mean that Ddraig and Albion would be weaker only than Ophis, Great Red and 666.

At the same time, I don't think they were mentioned to be on top of that list. Within the top 10? Certainly. But not necessarily at it's top, right after Ophis.

Well, I guess it could be simply a case of story changing to the authors needs...or my poor memory, keh.

The list you're talking about is the current one, I believe. It has Sakra at the top, right? After being sealed, not even Vali reaches the top ten. Originally, though, it was Ophis (Great Red/Trihexia weren't in the list) > Heavenly Dragons (2nd and 3rd place tie) > Bible God > Sakra (I think), and so on.

kikix
2014-03-07, 15:24
I honestly don't remember such a ranking.

Well, no matter. It doesn't really change the story that much...Well, since it's not really relevant to volume 17 anyway, guess we can just end it at this.


I wonder whether Koneko will try to use her newfound power to seduce Issei in this volume though...That'd be interesting...

Tbolt
2014-03-07, 15:47
It will probably wait for another volume, because rose is throwing out the boyfriend card.

Gary29
2014-03-07, 17:07
The list you're talking about is the current one, I believe. It has Sakra at the top, right? After being sealed, not even Vali reaches the top ten. Originally, though, it was Ophis (Great Red/Trihexia weren't in the list) > Heavenly Dragons (2nd and 3rd place tie) > Bible God > Sakra (I think), and so on.

The original list was Ophis, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Śakra, Thor, Typhon (Or Fenrir), Hades, Aten, and Lugh. The God of the Bible wasn't in the top 10 because he was dead. As for what his ranking really is, though... I'd say in the Top 5. He may have been extremely powerful in combat, or not, but one thing's for sure and that's that he was exceptionally skilled at creating things that are above his own power level.

Koneko seducing Ise in Shirone Mode will probably come in Volume 18 or 19, since v17 is Rose & Saji's (and Le Fay's, to a lesser extent) volume.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-07, 17:32
Concerning the position of the strongest beings. The only thing that seems to be evident is that it always seems to change. In the first couple of volumes the Two Heavenly Dragons were suppose to be the strongest dragons but then Ophis was added and then she was suppose to be the strongest but then Great Red (they may be equal) was added. Now 666 (beast) was added as well as Super devils. We probably won't know the true ranking of the series till the very end. The author probably has more secrets and tricks to pull that will effect the ranking.

Soji
2014-03-07, 17:45
Gary29@ Agree with you about Koneko and I really looking foward to see this.

Crimson Bloodriver@ Agree. As far we know there is even more powerfull beings hidden somewhere.

coded321
2014-03-07, 18:11
one thing im confused about is the timeline, or the chronology of the great war between the three biblical factions. I mean, how long ago the the great war and the deaths of the biblical god and four satans happen? For me, from the way some of the characters talk sometimes, these events happened somewhat or relatively recently.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-07, 18:41
one thing im confused about is the timeline, or the chronology of the great war between the three biblical factions. I mean, how long ago the the great war and the deaths of the biblical god and four satans happen? For me, from the way some of the characters talk sometimes, these events happened somewhat or relatively recently.

It never really says. Although Sirzech was apparently alive during the aftermath of the war. The people who talk about the war are all beings that are capable of living for thousands of years. I am guessing that it took place at least 1 to 2 thousand years ago though. Ddraig and Albion were both sealed during the war and they have had lots of possessors. Shown by all the Sempai in the depths of the sacred gear. Some of these guys probably didn't live a very long time but the others could have lived for at least a couple of decades.

G147
2014-03-07, 21:51
Sirzechs wasn't even born yet when the Great War took place.

sky black swordman
2014-03-07, 23:12
The original list was Ophis, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Śakra, Thor, Typhon (Or Fenrir), Hades, Aten, and Lugh. The God of the Bible wasn't in the top 10 because he was dead. As for what his ranking really is, though... I'd say in the Top 5. He may have been extremely powerful in combat, or not, but one thing's for sure and that's that he was exceptionally skilled at creating things that are above his own power level. Yes, this is the list of the current top 10 strongest in the DxD world. However, the top 10 list was different during the time when God from the Bible was still alive and Ddraig and Albion active and in their prime. The list you're talking about is the current one, I believe. It has Sakra at the top, right? After being sealed, not even Vali reaches the top ten. Originally, though, it was Ophis (Great Red/Trihexia weren't in the list) > Heavenly Dragons (2nd and 3rd place tie) > Bible God > Sakra (I think), and so on. This is most likely how the top 5 was back then.

XFire
2014-03-07, 23:29
The original list was Ophis, Shiva, Vishnu, Brahma, Śakra, Thor, Typhon (Or Fenrir), Hades, Aten, and Lugh. The God of the Bible wasn't in the top 10 because he was dead. As for what his ranking really is, though... I'd say in the Top 5. He may have been extremely powerful in combat, or not, but one thing's for sure and that's that he was exceptionally skilled at creating things that are above his own power level.

Koneko seducing Ise in Shirone Mode will probably come in Volume 18 or 19, since v17 is Rose & Saji's (and Le Fay's, to a lesser extent) volume.

He's explicitly called the strongest God. The only beings stronger than him were the Heavenly Dragons and Ophis (GR/666 not being included here). Ironically, that would make him fourth on the list, so yeah, top 5.

His creations aside, he was definitively the strongest, which is why the three factions desperately hid his death. His loss completely shattered the previous balance of the world.

kikix
2014-03-07, 23:39
Sirzechs wasn't even born yet when the Great War took place.There is nothing stating that Sirzechs was not alive then. In fact, there is the opposite.

Sirzechs became a hero of the underworld which was made specifically for devils to stop participating in the war with fallen angels and angels. That's where he met Grayfia, who was on the side that wanted to continue the war, they fell in love and you know the rest.

Sirzechs is at least few hundred years old. If you thought otherwise, you are gravely incorrect. The lone fact of having that samurai servant means that he is over hundred years old at the least.

His creations aside, he was definitively the strongest, which is why the three factions desperately hid his death. His loss completely shattered the previous balance of the world.The ones that hid it were fallen angels and angels. Devils did not know about that until Rias did find out fighting Kokabiel.

Reason for that being the hate of other factions towards christianity for taking their believers, if I recall. Knowing that both original maou's AND God died, they would surely attack. At the time, the three factions were at war with each other so they wouldn't support each other either.

XFire
2014-03-07, 23:52
There is nothing stating that Sirzechs was not alive then. In fact, there is the opposite.

Sirzechs became a hero of the underworld which was made specifically for devils to stop participating in the war with fallen angels and angels. That's where he met Grayfia, who was on the side that wanted to continue the war, they fell in love and you know the rest.

Sirzechs is at least few hundred years old. If you thought otherwise, you are gravely incorrect. The lone fact of having that samurai servant means that he is over hundred years old at the least.

The ones that hid it were fallen angels and angels. Devils did not know about that until Rias did find out fighting Kokabiel.

Reason for that being the hate of other factions towards christianity for taking their believers, if I recall. Knowing that both original maou's AND God died, they would surely attack. At the time, the three factions were at war with each other so they wouldn't support each other either.

Rias didn't know. The Maou did but kept it hidden.

And yeah, that's pretty much what I meant. The strongest God isn't there anymore, so the other mythologies are more likely to pick a fight.

G147
2014-03-08, 01:19
There is nothing stating that Sirzechs was not alive then. In fact, there is the opposite.

Sirzechs became a hero of the underworld which was made specifically for devils to stop participating in the war with fallen angels and angels. That's where he met Grayfia, who was on the side that wanted to continue the war, they fell in love and you know the rest.

Sirzechs is at least few hundred years old. If you thought otherwise, you are gravely incorrect. The lone fact of having that samurai servant means that he is over hundred years old at the least.

The ones that hid it were fallen angels and angels. Devils did not know about that until Rias did find out fighting Kokabiel.

Reason for that being the hate of other factions towards christianity for taking their believers, if I recall. Knowing that both original maou's AND God died, they would surely attack. At the time, the three factions were at war with each other so they wouldn't support each other either.

Not really. Yes, Sirzechs is a few hundred years old but the Great War took place was longer that, it was before Sirzechs and the others were born. Also Sirzechs met Grayfia during the Devils Civil War not the Great War. As to how they know God died, the Devils still do have a top brass you know, among them are the older Devils who knows the truth, that's why Sirzechs and the others know it.

DolphiNM8
2014-03-08, 01:39
I think God from the bible is on a vacation and faked his death.

G147
2014-03-08, 01:43
Nah he went to the other world and became Chichigami to promote breast in the other world.

XFire
2014-03-08, 01:45
I think God from the bible is on a vacation and faked his death.

This would be hilarious. And somehow perfectly appropriate for this series.

kusabireika
2014-03-08, 01:59
^that's true, but i wonder if we can create a timeline of hs dxd of all characters




Time 0 = Great Red, Ophis & 666 was born
Time 1 = All Gods/Maou was born

Time 1.1 = This was the time where rizevim was born


Time 2 = God created human kind ????? or
Time 3 = Heaven and Hell War have started

Time 3.1 = Both Faction created holy and demonic weapons


Time 4 = Azazel become a fallen Angel
Time 5 =3 way war Started
Time 6 = God found that 666 was very dangerous to this dimension

Time 6.1 = God seal 666 exhausting him in the process


Time 7 = God join the war
Tome 7= Heavenly Dragons enter there war
Time 8 = God ask for ceasefire to kill heavenly dragon

Time 8.1 = This where he told maou about the danger of 666
Time 8.2 = God proposed in making a sacred gear to counteract the trihexa if someone planning to seal it


Time 9 = Both God and Maou created sg

Time 9.1 = God & Maou have been killed due exhaustion of making a sacred gear
Time 9.2 = Somehow God & Maou didnt expect the bug in system this where the balance breaker and Longinus was born


Time 10 = The 3 way war started again

Time 10.1 = This was Sirzech and Grafia was born "if im right"
Time 10.2 = the war in underworld start due to peace loving devil & chaotic devil who want to fight angel and fallen angel
Time 10.3 = this time Sirzech and grafia met for the first
Time 10.4 = grafia brother saw the growing relationship between 2 them
Time 10.5 = somehow the current maou win against old maou

Time 10.5.1 = Rizevim feeling bored married someone to have some decendant
Time 10.5.2 = somehow grafia brother feeling heartbroken due to sirsech stealing his sister and he then meet rizevim here "Speculation"




Time 10.6 = peace was attain
Time 11 = The Strongest Devil was selected to become a current maous

Time 11.1 = Evil Piece was Created "Soeculation"
Time 11.2 = somehow sirzech knows or have fought rizevim before and knows his abilities, he planning to assemble none sg team to counteract rizevim





Time 99= This where all character from gremory peerage was born

Time 99.1 = Feeling bored rizevim killed his descendant
Time 99.2 = Azazel saw Vali and adopt him as own


Time "Current"= The setting of HS DxD

it's just conjecture/speculation of the timeline in DxD

XFire
2014-03-08, 02:02
~snip~

Time 10 = The 3 way started again

~snip~

I like the way you worded that.

kusabireika
2014-03-08, 02:03
I like the way you worded that.

sorry 0_0 my eyes played trick with me :p sorry :heh:

aw454wtr
2014-03-08, 03:22
He's explicitly called the strongest God. The only beings stronger than him were the Heavenly Dragons and Ophis (GR/666 not being included here). Ironically, that would make him fourth on the list, so yeah, top 5.

His creations aside, he was definitively the strongest, which is why the three factions desperately hid his death. His loss completely shattered the previous balance of the world.

Though I can't see god of bible of the heavenly dragons being stronger than the hindu gods,

the author did mention that Indra, the lowest ranked of the hindu gods posseses power equal to all four of the current maou (whom even at base level are stronger then the previous maou's) combined, shiva must be significantly stronger,

plus the author did mention that hindu gods having "cheat" like abilities that make them super overpowered, which is why he does not want to write them in unless he wants to end the series

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 04:56
Not really. Yes, Sirzechs is a few hundred years old but the Great War took place was longer that, it was before Sirzechs and the others were born. Also Sirzechs met Grayfia during the Devils Civil War not the Great War.

The Devil Civil War was a direct result of the old Maou supporters wanting to continue the war against heaven and the fallen angels. The opposing side saw how much damage the war had done to the devil population. They wanted to pull out of the war and rebuild the population. Sirzech and those on the side of the anti-mahou faction pushed the old mahou devils out into the edge of devil society.

Yes. The Great War that occurred in the heavens and Underworld left the outcome of losing both Maou and God. All three sides of devils, angels, and fallen-angels came to an exhausted state and they were in crisis of continuing their kinds. Even so the Maou-factions who wanted to continue the War got in a quarrel with the anti-Maou faction. It resulted in making the Maou- faction flee to the end of the Underworld, and like that the current devil society was created. Even until now there are problems about the grudge back then.

Since Sirzech is part of the anti-mahou faction and was a key player in pushing the mahou-faction to the ends of the Underworld. It can be assumed that he was alive during the time of the Great War. That being said, I have no idea if he actually participated in the Great War. Just that he was alive during the end of it.

G147
2014-03-08, 05:30
The thing is after the Great War, all three factions lost majority of their fighting forces. Do you think that they were in any state to continue the war immediately. It would take them at least several hundred years after the war in order to do so. They need for preparations, healing wounds, replenish forces etc. The Civil War happen during/after that period of time.

kikix
2014-03-08, 09:45
Rias didn't know. The Maou did but kept it hidden.With this, I'd prefer if you gave the source for why you think they did. I have no reason to believe that, especially with this:

The truth about this incident was sent to the God-side and the devils' side by the viceroy of the fallen-angels, Azazel.

Also Sirzechs met Grayfia during the Devils Civil War not the Great War.It'd be nice if you did start actually reading.

I already said that they met during a war of underworld. It's obvious that I did not mean the great war.
That being said, that civil war WAS because some of the devils, including the original maou successors, wanted to continue the war with fallen angels and devils. In other words, it happened right after or shortly after the great war.
And since Sirzechs was already adult and powerful, he probably was alive for quite a while already even then. So it is very likely he was alive during the great war. Not necessarily participating, however.

If you think otherwise, go ahead and show proof from the novel. Or at least an actual argument as to why he couldn't have been alive during it.

sunsengnim
2014-03-08, 10:14
all we know is that sirzechs and grayfia met during the civil war wich may have happened dozens of years after the great war.

there's no dates stating when the great war happened nor the civil war nor when sirzechs was even born so there's no point arguing about it since nobody knows except ishibumi.

G147
2014-03-08, 10:20
Okay fine.

“Long time ago, there was a three sided war between the Devils, the Fallen Angels, and God with its Angels followers. All three sides had a large army and they fought for almost eternity. As a result, all three sides lost most of their troops and the war finished several hundred years ago with no side winning.”
Kiba continues after Buchou.
“The Devils were no exception. Big Devils with peerage who commanded about 20 or 30 troops lost most of their underlings because of the war. They lost so many that they couldn’t even form new armies.”
Akeno-san continues on from there.
“I heard that most of the pure Devils passed away in that war. Even after the war, there are still problems between the Devils, the Fallen Angels and God. Even though the Fallen Angels' and God's side also lost most of their troops, we are still in a position where we can’t let our guard down, or else we will be in trouble.”

At best, Sirzechs and the others were born near the end or after the Great War.

aw454wtr
2014-03-08, 10:53
Just how much older are sirzechs and serafall compared to their younger sisters? a few 100 years?

sunsengnim
2014-03-08, 11:07
Just how much older are sirzechs and serafall compared to their younger sisters? a few 100 years?

Sirzechs is over two hundred years old, having reincarnated Souji Okita as his Knight in the late 1800s.

some info from the wiki that's pretty much all we know nothing on serafall.

so they're just a few 100 years older there's no exact info on their ages.

aw454wtr
2014-03-08, 11:43
Sirzechs is over two hundred years old, having reincarnated Souji Okita as his Knight in the late 1800s.

some info from the wiki that's pretty much all we know nothing on serafall.

so they're just a few 100 years older there's no exact info on their ages.

would that make michael and azazel 1000's or years old? Once devils repopulate the underworld, with everyone living for 10,000 years there's going to be a major overpopulation problem

sunsengnim
2014-03-08, 11:51
would that make michael and azazel 1000's or years old? Once devils repopulate the underworld, with everyone living for 10,000 years there's going to be a major overpopulation problem

yes, it would since i remember them saying they took part in the great war?

and no there won't since it's already been said that devils have a hard time "making babies" since for some reason devils aren't fertile enough.
(and before you ask no there's no exact info on this either)

this was already discussed in the main thread and Superbia dugged this up at the time from volume 4

said by xenovia
“I know about the birth of devils as well. It seems it’s quite difficult to make kids. Especially both being pure blooded, it's difficult but luckily both you and I are reincarnated devils. The base is human, and your sexual desire is strong as well. I expect if we do it every day, then within 10 years, I should be able to conceive. No, if it’s your strong sexual desire, then within a day, a number of times should be possible? If you include that, then I think it’s possible within 5 years. Aah, there’s no problem from the side of the children as well. Basically I will raise them. However, if the children desire love from their father, then only at those times do I want you to play with them. After all, for the children, both father and mother are required.”

so this only reinforce's the idea that it's EXTREMELY difficult to make children especially if you're pure blooded.
it would probably take hundreds of years just to get a single child so there's no reason to believe they'l be overpopulated any time soon.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 11:55
Just how much older are sirzechs and serafall compared to their younger sisters? a few 100 years?

They could be hundreds , they could be a thousand years older. We don't really know anyones exact age. We can guess at the ages of the youth devils but besides that it doesn't really give hints as to any supernatural beings exact age. After all, devils can make themselves look as young or old as they want.

would that make michael and azazel 1000's or years old? Once devils repopulate the underworld, with everyone living for 10,000 years there's going to be a major overpopulation problem

I don't think they have to worry about an overpopulation problem. Devils have an extremely low birth rate. Its going to take them a very very long time to even get there population back to where it was before the war.

DolphiNM8
2014-03-08, 12:41
How old is Odin

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 13:12
How old is Odin

Not really sure but he pre-dates God. Since Loki complained about Christianity moving in and stealing their followers. Odins older then Loki so.... I don't really know. He seems to think everyone is a youngling and always talks about how old he is so he has to be one of the oldest gods in DxD. He's probably at least 4 thousand years old...probably much older.

GBFirestorm
2014-03-08, 13:45
Wonder if we will see Egyptian gods or some other religion? I mean the Egypian gods are old and I think the pre-date the Norse don't they?

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 13:57
Wonder if we will see Egyptian gods or some other religion? I mean the Egypian gods are old and I think the pre-date the Norse don't they?

That would be really cool. Those gods are pretty strange but they're also really interesting. I actually don't know if they pre-date Norse Gods. I have always been a little confused on which theology pre-dates the other, Norse, Greek, or Egyptian. Maybe they developed around the same time period.:confused:

GBFirestorm
2014-03-08, 14:10
That would be really cool. Those gods are pretty strange but they're also really interesting. I actually don't know if they pre-date Norse Gods. I have always been a little confused on which theology pre-dates the other, Norse, Greek, or Egyptian. Maybe they developed around the same time period.:confused:

Yeah Egyptian is very interesting but then I really like reading about mythologies. My particular favourite is the Greeks. Man those gods had some real character to them. From what I remember from school so many years ago Egyptian mythology is a few thousand years older then Greeks and the Roman mythology was based on Greeks after a hero fled to Italy after the fall of Troy... Not sure is Norse mythology is older but I was always told that Egyptian mythology is one of the oldest.

XFire
2014-03-08, 18:08
Though I can't see god of bible of the heavenly dragons being stronger than the hindu gods,

the author did mention that Indra, the lowest ranked of the hindu gods posseses power equal to all four of the current maou (whom even at base level are stronger then the previous maou's) combined, shiva must be significantly stronger,

plus the author did mention that hindu gods having "cheat" like abilities that make them super overpowered, which is why he does not want to write them in unless he wants to end the series

I won't argue against them being over-powered, but everyone calls him the strongest God. Heck, I think Indra calls him that once. Don't remember where, though. And the Heavenly Dragons were stronger still. So unless we get evidence to the contrary, he's still stronger than the Hindus are.

Also, for the "four time the current Maou" I'd like to point out that this was before Sirzechs revealed his super mode, which has ten times the previous Maous power level. Though Indra may still be stronger.

Gary29
2014-03-08, 18:13
I won't argue against them being over-powered, but everyone calls him the strongest God. Heck, I think Indra calls him that once. Don't remember where, though. And the Heavenly Dragons were stronger still. So unless we get evidence to the contrary, he's still stronger than the Hindus are.

Also, for the "four time the current Maou" I'd like to point out that this was before Sirzechs revealed his super mode, which has ten times the previous Maous power level. Though Indra may still be stronger.

Indra is only more powerful than the current Maou without Sirzech's and Ajuka's true forms.

I always thought the God of the Bible was the strongest of all the Gods, but does the light novel ever actually state that? So far I haven't found any mention of it.

XFire
2014-03-08, 18:16
Indra is only more powerful than the current Maou without Sirzech's and Ajuka's true forms.

I always thought the God of the Bible was the strongest of all the Gods, but does the light novel ever actually state that? So far I haven't found any mention of it.

Yeah, generally through Azazel or Sirzechs. I'd have to search the whole series for mentions of it though.

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 18:22
I wonder what Ajuka's true form is? Or does he even have a true form? It would be interesting if he did.

XFire
2014-03-08, 18:25
I wonder what Ajuka's true form is? Or does he even have a true form? It would be interesting if he did.

I think rather than a true form, it was his ability to overwrite all phenomenon that made him equal to Sirzechs. Though I could be wrong and he can turn into the Akashic Record or something.

coded321
2014-03-08, 20:51
anyone know why albion was called the butt dragon emperor?

kusabireika
2014-03-08, 20:55
anyone now why albion was called the butt dragon emperor?
due to Odin asking what is the fetish of Vali, poor albion blame Vali for your suffering :heh:

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 20:57
anyone now why albion was called the butt dragon emperor?

That's because Odin asked Vali what part of the girl's body he liked the most. Vali respond that he liked the curve of a girls back between her hips. Meaning he thinks a girls butt is her best feature. So Odin called him a Butt Dragon.

kusabireika
2014-03-08, 21:01
That's because Odin asked Vali what part of the girl's body he liked the most. Vali respond that he liked the curve of a girls back between her hips. Meaning he thinks a girls butt is her best feature. So Odin called him a Butt Dragon.

^ after that albion cry :heh:

Crimson Bloodriver
2014-03-08, 21:13
^ after that albion cry :heh:

Yup. The two Heavenly Dragons entered their delicate phase.:)

I wonder if Azazel and Sirzech will introduce the Butt Dragon into the kids Oppai Dragon show? If that happens then Albion would try and kill himself.

aw454wtr
2014-03-09, 02:09
Wonder if we will see Egyptian gods or some other religion? I mean the Egypian gods are old and I think the pre-date the Norse don't they?

Perhaps the Anubis and his evil Egyptian army could be brought in as the new antagonists once rizviem and magician faction (whom surely are the last members of khaos brigade) are eliminated

DragoMuseveni
2014-03-09, 04:01
Ichibumi sama said he will make a Shiva Arc . So maybe after the destruction of Rizevim and Khaos Brigade

Chichiryuushintei
2014-03-09, 06:23
Ichibumi sama said he will make a Shiva Arc . So maybe after the destruction of Rizevim and Khaos Brigade
I'm pretty sure that he said he'd do it only when he wanted to end the serires, since all the Hindu gods are OP, and there'd be nobody to fight after that.
So I kinda want this arc to happen, but, at the same time that I kinda don't.

sunsengnim
2014-03-09, 06:52
I'm pretty sure that he said he'd do it only when he wanted to end the serires, since all the Hindu gods are OP, and there'd be nobody to fight after that.
So I kinda want this arc to happen, but, at the same time that I kinda don't.

Shiva is believed to be at the core of the centrifugal force of the universe, because of his responsibility for death and destruction. Unlike the godhead Brahma, the Creator, or Vishnu, the Preserver, Shiva is the dissolving force in life. But Shiva dissolves in order to create, since death is the medium for rebirth into a new life. So the opposites of life and death and creation and destruction both reside in his character.

just some small info about shiva (from the internet) just reading this you should be assured the hindu gods are insanely overpowered and once issei and co defeat these they'l just breeze trough every fight.

so im kinda hoping it never happens since if ishibumi ever does it'l be the end of highschool dxd.

Direwolf18
2014-03-09, 16:32
It would be interesting to see Egyptian gods, or even new world ones, like the Aztec or Mayan gods. Some of those guys are not exactly nice people.

I wonder if he will ever dwell in Cthulu mythos, I know its not a religion per say, but I am a big fan of that stuff. A lot of potential there, or if he runs out of mythologies on earth, which admittedly could take a while, pull from mythologies from other dimensions.

G147
2014-03-09, 21:38
Since when did Ishibumi said he'll do a Shiva arc when he wanted the series to end? All he said was this:

What you will have to pay attention to are the Hindu mythology which hasn’t appeared in the series yet. Well, those who know about their mythology know it, but the Hindu Gods all have cheat-like abilities. If I make them appear in DxD, it will turn out like the battle in Dragon Ball, so I controlled myself. The Hindu mythology will be placed in the higher ranks of the Top-10 strongest that Vali spoked about. It truly is terrifying. If DxD continues to go on for much longer, I’m thinking of doing “The Destruction God Shiva arc” as a last resort. So I have no plan to make them appear until then.

Somethindarker
2014-03-10, 01:33
Since when did Ishibumi said he'll do a Shiva arc when he wanted the series to end? All he said was this:

Well considering that he said himself that their abilities are OP and the power rankings show that they're top tier gods after they're defeated or whatever there's no one else.

kusabireika
2014-03-10, 01:36
Well considering that he said himself that their abilities are OP and the power rankings show that they're top tier gods after they're defeated or whatever there's no one else.

Errr corrupted issei :heh:

I want to see the shiva arc :T_T:

kikix
2014-03-10, 13:17
Since when did Ishibumi said he'll do a Shiva arc when he wanted the series to end? All he said was this:Read the last two phrases of the afterword you quoted yourself. "Last resort" sounds pretty much...yeah, like the end.

G147
2014-03-10, 21:25
It could also mean that he's doing it for the sake of creating a new arc too. Like maybe when he gets lost on how to write a new arc, he could instead try the Shiva arc while thinking of how to make a new one.

kikix
2014-03-10, 22:30
Going by context, what you said is less likely of the two. Hence people talking about Shiva being the last arc, at least with Issei as main character.

G147
2014-03-11, 00:00
Not really

In Volume 13 afterword he wrote this:

If I make them appear in DxD, it will turn out like the battle in Dragon Ball, so I controlled myself. The Hindu mythology will be placed in the higher ranks of the Top-10 strongest that Vali spoked about. It truly is terrifying. If DxD continues to go on for much longer, I’m thinking of doing “The Destruction God Shiva arc” as a last resort. So I have no plan to make them appear until then.

Then in Volume 14 afterword he wrote this:

…… But please be rest assured. Even if Shiva arc doesn’t become possible, fourth story arc will end properly like how it should. I have already decided on the last part of the fourth story arc. If I was able to write the Shiva arc, please think of it as the extra stage. At the end, it will depend on the support of all of you……so I will continue to write.

So the Shiva arc at best would be considered as an "Extra Stage" only.

aw454wtr
2014-03-11, 08:47
If there is a shiva arc, Hopefully the author uses the shiva from actual hindu mythos, and not turn shiva into a scantily cald women like final fantasy did

XFire
2014-03-11, 11:01
If there is a shiva arc, Hopefully the author uses the shiva from actual hindu mythos, and not turn shiva into a scantily clad women like final fantasy did

I'm all for half-naked female god of destruction, personally.

Gary29
2014-03-11, 11:06
It'd be the first time Ise gets an opportunity to use Dress Break on a God.

I do hope that Ishibumi has plans for more arcs after this one, though; even though with Shiva arc being the 5th arc the story wouldn't end until at least volume 30 - 35, I don't want DxD to end so fast.

sunsengnim
2014-03-11, 19:09
It'd be the first time Ise gets an opportunity to use Dress Break on a God.

I do hope that Ishibumi has plans for more arcs after this one, though; even though with Shiva arc being the 5th arc the story wouldn't end until at least volume 30 - 35, I don't want DxD to end so fast.

indeed, i really don't want it to end either since this has ruined every other shounen-harem for me they're just meh compared to highschool dxd :(

also shiva as a scandily clothed beauty like in the final fantasies? im okay with that!
issei dress break action for the win!

Somethindarker
2014-03-11, 21:07
It'd be the first time Ise gets an opportunity to use Dress Break on a God.

I do hope that Ishibumi has plans for more arcs after this one, though; even though with Shiva arc being the 5th arc the story wouldn't end until at least volume 30 - 35, I don't want DxD to end so fast.

Did you mean 20-25? Cuz Ishibumi's arc never last longer than 3-4 volumes.

saw2097
2014-03-11, 21:09
Did you mean 20-25? Cuz Ishibumi's arc never last longer than 3-4 volumes.

He's only had three full arcs so far and each one is longer then the last, the Heroic Oppai Dragon arc lasted five volumes.

Somethindarker
2014-03-11, 21:19
He's only had three full arcs so far and each one is longer then the last, the Heroic Oppai Dragon arc lasted five volumes.

Sorry I wasn't thinking about full arcs I was just thinkin' in terms of storyline, like Excaliber/Kiba story was volumes 3-4 and Phenex arc was 1-2, you're right. But even so Risevim arc will probably end in volume 19 and since the story is at it's climax ie; Vali/Issei rivalry is pretty much done, Ross has officially joined Issei's harem, Great Red has become involved in the war and the DxD is established I don't see the books going further than 25 volumes.

saw2097
2014-03-11, 21:36
Sorry I wasn't thinking about full arcs I was just thinkin' in terms of storyline, like Excaliber/Kiba story was volumes 3-4 and Phenex arc was 1-2, you're right. But even so Risevim arc will probably end in volume 19 and since the story is at it's climax ie; Vali/Issei rivalry is pretty much done, Ross has officially joined Issei's harem, Great Red has become involved in the war and the DxD is established I don't see the books going further than 25 volumes.

That would just give him 2 books to introduce all the other evil dragons that have been barely mentioned and rap up the other major issues he has introduced.

Plus DxD has only been recently formed and the author referred to volume 17 as the beginning of the war between them and Risevim.

Plus the author said that this is the final official arc, the ending of this arc will be the end of the series overall storyline with a Shiva Arc or any other arc being a Bonus arc.

That means he has to rap up all the big issues from across the entire series.

I really think this arc is going to be a doozy.

aw454wtr
2014-03-11, 22:57
I'm all for half-naked female god of destruction, personally.

One problem with that, Shiva is a male god so it would be another gasper if the author goes the Final Fantasy way

G147
2014-03-11, 23:00
Ishibumi never said that the fourth arc is the final arc.

Something like an Evil Dragon smells like they were added in quite late! Maybe you might be thinking like that when you were reading it, but I just used the secret setting which I thought I wasn’t going to use. That’s because I didn’t expect it to continue this far…… But please be rest assured. Even if Shiva arc doesn’t become possible, fourth story arc will end properly like how it should. I have already decided on the last part of the fourth story arc.

From Afterword V14

saw2097
2014-03-11, 23:05
Ishibumi never said that the fourth arc is the final arc.



From Afterword V14

Not the final arc, the intended final arc, he says that this will have a satisfying ending to the story if this was the final arc.

He said that a Shiva arc would be a bonus arc.


Honestly I think that the author just wants to be ready in case sales ever fall, after this arc he can do any additional arcs with the knowledge that he has finished the overall story he wanted to tell and can safely end it anytime without leaving his fans hanging.

Somethindarker
2014-03-11, 23:15
Not the final arc, the intended final arc, he says that this will have a satisfying ending to the story if this was the final arc.

He said that a Shiva arc would be a bonus arc.


Honestly I think that the author just wants to be ready in case sales ever fall, after this arc he can do any additional arcs with the knowledge that he has finished the overall story he wanted to tell and can safely end it anytime without leaving his fans hanging.

That does sound like something he'd do. He's not the greatest writer but he's mentioned in his twitter, afterwords and Q&A's that just because "Highschool DxD" ends doesn't mean he's done with the universe. Personally I'd look forward to College DxD or a Middle School DxD with Millicas.

G147
2014-03-11, 23:15
Like i said, Ishibumi hasn't mentioned a thing about the the fourth arc being the final one. So it's best not make any of these type of assumption until any confirmed info is known.

Somethindarker
2014-03-11, 23:19
Like i said, Ishibumi hasn't mentioned a thing about the the fourth arc being the final one. So it's best not make any of these type of assumption until any confirmed info is known.

But we can guestimate with the way the story is going and what's been mentioned in afterwords.

saw2097
2014-03-11, 23:22
Like i said, Ishibumi hasn't mentioned a thing about the the fourth arc being the final one. So it's best not make any of these type of assumption until any confirmed info is known.

I suspect there will be more arcs as long as sales hold up, but from the sound of the afterwards all the critical issues will be resolved this arc.

Which actually means its very likely that this arc will end with Ise as a High Class devil.

G147
2014-03-11, 23:27
We can't say this things for sure, Ishibumi just started his plot to move Issei into his third year as high school student. We don't know how this things will affect the story and all so speculating it will end or not is pointless at this point, just let the story flow naturally.

aw454wtr
2014-03-12, 00:46
By the end of this arc, surely the khaos brigade will be finally defeated, do you think the author is going to pull a secret faction to keep the khaos brigade going or will he start a new group of antagonists?

Somethindarker
2014-03-12, 00:55
By the end of this arc, surely the khaos brigade will be finally defeated, do you think the author is going to pull a secret faction to keep the khaos brigade going or will he start a new group of antagonists?

Now THAT is an interesting question. I'm guessing the Shiva gods will have their own faction since Hinduism has a ton of gods compared to others and are fairly popular since they're the 3rd most popular religion in the world.

kusabireika
2014-03-12, 01:02
There is an issue about Indra motive in helping the team dxd & Khaos brigade, hero's faction.:upset:

When will tiamat showing up.
What will happen when all Khaos brigade collapse, what will vali & Cao Cao do, is there a mastermind in creating the Khaos brigade

1. We know Khaos brigade is a multiple group within the organization. Who is the founder really we know that ophis is puppet leader but who tell ophis that be our leader and we kill great red is it Indra, rizevim, other Khaos brigade faction leader, or there is someone working in the shadow a very charismatic malevolent fellow and his only wish is the destruction of the dxd universe. Possible culprit maybe the 666 in human form. Though I don't if its true it just a mere speculation, his objective is getting his main body. Errr it's like I'm referring to rosario vampire alucard.


It will be funny if mil-tan or Tiamat is a leader of Khaos brigade :heh:

On-topic: what are the chances that 666 will be released.

If somehow 666 is release who will win the fight 666 or great red?
How will dxd re-sealed 666?

After the treat of rizevim is eliminated will the Khaos brigade heroes faction/Indra wil retrieve some sample of 666 in the upcoming battle of dxd or shiva

Chris38
2014-03-12, 02:03
On-topic: what are the chances that 666 will be released.

At the moment, I would say that there is a 50% chance that 666 is going to be partially released, due to Rizevim's actions.



If somehow 666 is release who will win the fight 666 or great red?

I doubt that we will see, the outcome of the battle between 666 and Great Red, due to the implied annihilation that a battle like that would cause and it's also the reason why I doubt that we will see a fully unsealed 666 beast.


How will dxd re-sealed 666?

Probably using the method that Rossweisse found when she was a child.


After the treat of rizevim is eliminated will the Khaos brigade heroes faction/Indra wil retrieve some sample of 666 in the upcoming battle of dxd or shiva

Maybe, but what would be the point of the described individual doing that - after all, I doubt that a sample of 666 can be used to produce anything meaningful.

DragoMuseveni
2014-03-12, 08:02
I expect if 666 will be fully revived that ise and great read join again and combine the sekiryuushintei and sekiryuutei powers in oreder to overcome him . By the way how it will be if ise visit chichigami sama world ?

Ultragunner
2014-03-12, 08:05
^ I would place my bet on Great Red (I'm a fanboy of the red dragon after all :D), but like I said (and it seemed like everyone ignored my post :heh:), if any of the three: Great Red, Ophis (full power) and 666 (fully unsealed) take on one another seriously, that would be the apocalypse :heh:

kusabireika
2014-03-12, 08:14
^ I'm on ophis or 666 if they are trap, though I will still pick ophis :heh: because I'm a fan of black color, snake & trap :heehee:

@Chris38 you are right about it. Still I'm wondering who is stronger between the two great red vs 666 if the fight breakthrough in worst case scenario :T_T:

It will be funny if somehow vali gain 666 power and become an avatar of 666 while issei is avatar of great red & ophis :heehee:

Chris38
2014-03-12, 09:37
It will be funny if somehow vali gain 666 power and become an avatar of 666 while issei is avatar of great red & ophis :heehee:

You know ... I could see a development like that, actually occurring. Granted it will only be a small part of 666 actual power, just like Ise has inherited only a small fraction of Ophis's and Great Red's power that mixed with each other.

The reason why I think that a development like that, might occur is because it would be a pretty good way to keep Vali's and Ise's power levels at a more or less equal rank and have them continue their 'rivalry' for the rest of their Devil lifespan.

Basically, if a scenario like that occurs, Vali won't reach a bad ending, where he will die, due to not having any strong opponents that he hasn't defeated yet.

renoraider
2014-03-12, 09:48
Issei's already (slowly) being converted into Chichigami-sama's avatar. Ever since Occhan (Memory of Oppai) awakened him. Maybe Occhan is actually the Seirei of oppai? :D

lived_1714
2014-03-12, 11:30
Issei's already (slowly) being converted into Chichigami-sama's avatar. Ever since Occhan (Memory of Oppai) awakened him. Maybe Occhan is actually the Seirei of oppai? :D

You don't know him? He's Norio Wakamoto, a True God.

kikix
2014-03-12, 21:14
(...)more or less equal rank and have them continue their 'rivalry' for the rest of their Devil lifespan.Actually, Vali is not a devil. He is half-devil.

He was born from a devil father and human mother. He was not born as a devil nor was he reincarnated into one. That is why he could naturally be born with a sacred gear. We don't even know his lifespan (though we may assume that it is like that of a devil).

Also, Vali team is unrelated to Khaos Brigade for a long time now. They never really were part of it seriously. Vali just wanted to protect Ophis and fight strong foes. He never did like Khaos Brigade.

Cao Cao probably doesn't care about Khaos Brigade anymore either. He learned his lesson, I'd say.

sky black swordman
2014-03-13, 06:55
Maybe, but what would be the point of the described individual doing that - after all, I doubt that a sample of 666 can be used to produce anything meaningful.Well, that may all depend on how they go about using it. I mean look what the Khaos Brigade did with the blood of the Original Maou.

anifreik
2014-03-14, 10:42
https://shincodezeroblog.wordpress.com/highschooldxd/storyarc4/volume17/life0/

50% done. YAY!

II Maestro
2014-03-14, 10:44
^Nice updates are starting love it~!

The time has come to enjoy vol.17 gotta thank n0m@n.

Gary29
2014-03-14, 11:17
A designer who is sponsored by Ajuka-sama created hidden rooms inside the Hyoudou Residence!? And a fantastic ecchi situation to start v17! I'm really gonna enjoy this volume. It's already started off great. Big thanks to n0m@n for the translation!

Chris38
2014-03-14, 11:32
Yeah, looks like volume 17 has got some good start with echii moments, some more information about the Hyodou Residence and also some appearances from characters that haven't had a lot of screen time in volume 16.