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relentlessflame
2014-04-02, 18:41
This is a thread to discuss Character power-ups, match-ups, and ratings in the High School DxD Light Novel.

As this is a source material thread, it is expected that you should be reasonably caught up to the latest source material when participating. However, if spoiling major plot points that others may not yet have read, please be considerate and use properly-labelled spoiler tags that indicate to the reader whether it's safe to open the tag. Spoiler tags with no label are not allowed!

Please stay on-topic.
No shipping talk
No pointless chatter
No posting raws or source illustrations
No posting translations of the source itself
No asking about when translations will be done
No posts only to update people about translation status (or to just say that something's "out")
No posts only to thank translators (please us PM or VM instead)


If you want to discuss a related topic, please feel free to request another thread be created about that topic.

Chris38
2014-04-05, 00:38
Well to give this thread some input those are the power ups / improvements that I think the Gremory team might have ... sometime after the events of volume 17:

Rias - decreasing the time needed to prepare her Extinguishing Star ... along with using it's attraction properties as a defensive measure against incoming ... long distanced ranged attacks.

Asia - gaining a sub spices Balance Breaker that will have some offensive and defensive abilities, which will decrease her dependency on the Pantsu Dragon :uhoh:

Akeno - using her Fallen Angel mode without the bracelet that Azazel has given her ... along with some improvements to her Lightning Dragon ability, where it will be capable of containing some more elements then just Lightning.

Koneko - increasing the length of Shirone mode + learning a few more Nekomata abilities.

Kiba - learning how to use Gram without a risk to his life ;)

Xenovia - learning and mastering all of the Ex-Durandal related abilities

Gasper - improving the length of his Balor mode + learning a few more Balor related abilities

Rossweisse - learning how to use her talent in sealing, in order to be capable of sealing incoming enemy magical attacks and eventually to seal the attackers as well :heh:

Ise - decreasing the stamina consumption of his Sacred Gear related abilities and learning how to use his dormant Great Red / Ophis mixed power.

kusabireika
2014-04-05, 00:42
Irina - she need some decent power-up :p

jopjopjop
2014-04-05, 04:03
Akeno - using her Fallen Angel mode without the bracelet that Azazel has given her ... along with some improvements to her Lightning Dragon ability, where it will be capable of containing some more elements then just Lightning.

Gasper - improving the length of his Balor mode + learning a few more Balor related abilities

Akeno can already use other elements as early as Vol.14.
She doesn't need the bracelet anymore.
I don't think he has problems with the length of using Balor mode since in that battle he was in Balor mode the whole fight; supporting the group and fighting the mass-produced Evil Dragons. Although he was seen asleep after the fight.

Chris38
2014-04-24, 01:35
You know ... recently I started wondering, if we will ever have a serious match / fight between Ise and Tannin.

After all ... the two of them, after the changes that occurred to Ise, due to his second near death experience, are pretty similar since, both Ise and Tannin are devils who have been reincarnated from dragons.

While obviously there are some differences between them, due to the fact that Ise is a humanoid dragon while Tannin is a more normal type of a dragon ... I think that the current Ise and Tannin are currently at a similar levels of power (although Tannin definitely has a lot more experience in using them).

Furthermore ... apart from portraying who is stronger between the two of them, a serious fight against Tannin could be one of the ways of training / unlocking more of Ise's dragon related powers ... since a former Dragon King definitely has a lot of experience when it comes to the abilities that dragons posses...

aw454wtr
2014-04-24, 04:00
Ise still needs to unlock Ddraig's hidden abilities, after all if reflect is a hidden ability of albion, surely Ddraig has at least one more hidden ability

kusabireika
2014-04-24, 04:06
Ise still needs to unlock Ddraig's hidden abilities, after all if reflect is a hidden ability of albion, surely Ddraig has at least one more hidden ability

I want the said ability to be unlock vali not issei because he has so many powerup unlike his rival :(

sunsengnim
2014-04-24, 04:21
I want the said ability to be unlock vali not issei because he has so many powerup unlike his rival :(

Vali doesn't need a power-up he's still ahead of Issei.
once Vali masters his empirio juggernaut overdrive he'll probably be either an ultimate-class devil or a super-class devil.

he really doesn't need it what he really needs is a worthy rival wich is Issei who's trying to catch up.
so Issei needs those power ups Vali doesn't.

kusabireika
2014-04-24, 04:25
Vali doesn't need a power-up he's still ahead of Issei.
once Vali masters his empirio juggernaut overdrive he'll probably be either an ultimate-class devil or a super-class devil.

he really doesn't need it what he really needs is a worthy rival wich is Issei who's trying to catch up.
so Issei needs those power ups Vali doesn't.

Issei already have great red and ophis power, so I wish that vali gain powerup that is not part albion but ddraig :T_T:

sunsengnim
2014-04-24, 04:26
Issei already have great red and ophis power, so I wish that vali gain powerup that is not part albion but ddraig :T_T:

yes, he's received a body made from great red/ophis's power but so far all that has done is give him the ability to change a body part to a dragons and an unstable life force.

i don't really see that as such a huge power-up.

kusabireika
2014-04-24, 04:37
yes, he's received a body made from great red/ophis's power but so far all that has done is give him the ability to change a body part to a dragons and an unstable life force.

i don't really see that as such a huge power-up.

Maybe I'm biased because issei always get a powerup if he master ccq and unlock his great red and ophis possibility

So having vali gain powerup is not so bad so he doesn't depend on ejod or albion abilities, and I'm bit bored because of it having vali gain ddraig, norse myth or lucifer heritage will not be so bad :T_T:

aw454wtr
2014-04-24, 04:39
Issei already have great red and ophis power, so I wish that vali gain powerup that is not part albion but ddraig :T_T:

Ise got part of vali's power because he took one of DD's jewel and put into BG, Vali has not done that, he does not want to do that (as he might die) and no way Ise is stupid enough to give one of BG jewels to Vali, Vali is overpowered enough as it is, Ise needs ascalon, divide, reflect and great red/ophis powers just to come close to vali

Chris38
2014-04-24, 04:42
yes, he's received a body made from great red/ophis's power but so far all that has done is give him the ability to change a body part to a dragons and an unstable life force.

i don't really see that as such a huge power-up.

True it's not such a huge power up yet ... but I see similarities between Great Red's / Ophis's power and the power that Ise stole from Albion.

After all ... both of them have an element of danger to Ise's life and hadn't had a lot of usefulness in their initial appearances, due to the risks that have been involved in using them.

In the case of Albion's stolen power this risk has been resolved in the recent volumes and the stolen power evolved into a pretty useful ability...

I think that the power of Ophis / Great Red is going to undergo a similar process ... although it's probably going to take less volumes to achieve that, compared to how much time it has taken for the stolen Albion power to finally change into something that Ise is capable of using...

Tbolt
2014-04-24, 10:37
I really don't think that Ise's life force is really that big of a problem.

Azazel said that Ise's life force went from 0 to infinity.

So if Ise's life force went to 0 wouldn't he die at that moment.

And that confused Azazel a lot that's why he said he was still researching it.

We know the 0 to infinity refers to Ophis/Great Red powers, could it mean that Ise is now unable to die no mater what happens?

Just a question to ponder.

vlade
2014-04-24, 11:11
i imagine the 0 and Dream in Great Red its more like Gold Experience Requim power from JoJo's series part V

jopjopjop
2014-04-24, 11:23
We know the 0 to infinity refers to Ophis/Great Red powers, could it mean that Ise is now unable to die no mater what happens?

Nah. Issei will still die if he's killed.

Chris38
2014-04-24, 11:25
I really don't think that Ise's life force is really that big of a problem.

Azazel said that Ise's life force went from 0 to infinity.

So if Ise's life force went to 0 wouldn't he die at that moment.

And that confused Azazel a lot that's why he said he was still researching it.

We know the 0 to infinity refers to Ophis/Great Red powers, could it mean that Ise is now unable to die no mater what happens?

Just a question to ponder.

Well, that would be a quite interesting plot twist and I think it has a chance of actually becoming true in the story.

The reason why I think like that is because of Sona's statement about Ise having to shoulder a karma that no god would be able to purify ... after thinking about it ... if it was simply meaning that Ise would have to deal with Ophis's company, which he doesn't seem to mind ... why would he want to purify / remove it ?

But if it also has an additional meaning of not being able to die no matter what happens ... and having to eventually see the rest of his companions passing away, with him and Ophis being the only people out of the current Gremory group + company that would remain alive ... then Sona's statement definitely rises a quite disturbing conclusion of what Ise's possible karma might be...

Gary29
2014-04-24, 12:04
^Now that, is a very interesting point. It fits with Ishibumi's habit of using little things to foreshadow major future events in the story. It would be a massive plot twist which actually has a chance of occurring, but if it's permanent I wouldn't want that. Maybe the Holy Grail could come into play here, if Ise's life force does become infinite it could somehow bring it back to a Devil's regular lifespan.

Nah. Issei will still die if he's killed.

But how do you kill the life force of a being whose life force jumps from 0 to infinite?

jopjopjop
2014-04-24, 12:13
^Having infinite life force doesn't make you unkillable but just prevents you from dying of old age. The same with a Dragon's. They won't die unless killed.

Chris38
2014-04-24, 12:47
@Gary

Considering the state Valerie is in, due to overusing the Holy Grail ... I doubt that she would be able to do anything with this issue...

After all, in my opinion she won't be capable of using the Grail for at least a couple of years ... if not even more, depending on her mental state after she recovers from her coma and by then it will probably be too late to change anything regarding Ise's body, since it will ... most likely ... already reach a stable state at that point...

Not to mention, like @jopjopjop has mentioned, even if Ise won't be capable of dying from old age, he could still be killed ... although it will probably be a quite difficult task ... since most likely Ophis and ... hopefully Lilith are going to be keeping Ise company ... which means ... dealing with the Infinite Dragon Twins... :uhoh:

aw454wtr
2014-04-24, 13:26
perhaps valerie may develop a safe way to use the holy grail's power, just like how Ise developed a safe juggernaut drive

Tbolt
2014-04-24, 13:44
If your life force is at 0 and you don't die you Rock!

teejmo
2014-04-24, 14:09
perhaps valerie may develop a safe way to use the holy grail's power, just like how Ise developed a safe juggernaut drive

Well, considering she's in a coma right now, and will most likely stay in that for the rest of the arc, that probably won't happen any time soon. And it's already been suggested that the Grail will be sealed.

As Azazel explained to Marius, the winner of the Worst Brother of the Year award:

“Then I will have you hand that to us Grigori. The research about them is our speciality. We can do things from keeping it safe and even seal it away. If you really don’t want to, then you can even hand it to Odin or Zeus. Anyway, that thing is dangerous. Due to its traits, it’s something we need to keep our eyes on or keep it away. But I guess there’s no way you will listen even if I say this much.”

aw454wtr
2014-04-24, 14:38
Well, considering she's in a coma right now, and will most likely stay in that for the rest of the arc, that probably won't happen any time soon. And it's already been suggested that the Grail will be sealed.

As Azazel explained to Marius, the winner of the Worst Brother of the Year award:

after she wakes up, she might be able to in the next arc

sunsengnim
2014-04-24, 18:19
even if his life force goes to infinite thanks to his new body he uses it up like it's going out of style.

im sure if that's the case Ishibumi will put him in an unfair position again as to force him to use it up to protect the people he loves.

aw454wtr
2014-04-27, 12:27
At this moment in time would Ise's BG become reclassified as a top tier longinus as opposed to BG being a mid tier, after all it now has

1.holy element
2.dragon slayer element
3.Power to divide
4.Power to reflect

in addition to boost and transfer, that's 6 abilities in one, only true longinus BB has more abilities

kusabireika
2014-04-27, 13:46
^dd will become top tier too once vali unlock ddraig ability :x

jopjopjop
2014-04-27, 13:57
At this moment in time would Ise's BG become reclassified as a top tier longinus as opposed to BG being a mid tier, after all it now has

1.holy element
2.dragon slayer element
3.Power to divide
4.Power to reflect

in addition to boost and transfer, that's 6 abilities in one, only true longinus BB has more abilities

Once Issei dies and BG transfers, all those added abilities will disappear. So, it will still be a mid-tier Longinus.

aw454wtr
2014-04-27, 14:02
^dd will become top tier too once vali unlock ddraig ability :x

Vali does not have Ddraig abilities, the reason Ise got divide and reflect was because he took one of vali's jewels and absorbed it into BG

kusabireika
2014-04-27, 14:06
Vali does not have Ddraig abilities, the reason Ise got divide and reflect was because he took one of vali's jewels and absorbed it into BG

But you know there is posibility that albion unlock ddraig skill did someone mention that god did remove the skill he only sealed it, there might a chance that god have inputed ddraig ability to him .... Even vali didn't put ddraig jewel ._.

aw454wtr
2014-04-27, 14:29
But you know there is posibility that albion unlock ddraig skill did someone mention that god did remove the skill he only sealed it, there might a chance that god have inputed ddraig ability to him .... Even vali didn't put ddraig jewel ._.

Vali will likely unlock relfect and other ablion abilities that god sealed, god did not take Ddraig's abilities and put it into DD so there's no way vali is gonna get Ddraig's abilities unless Ise give one of BG jewels to vali (hope the author does not do this)

kusabireika
2014-04-27, 14:39
Vali will likely unlock relfect and other ablion abilities that god sealed, god did not take Ddraig's abilities and put it into DD so there's no way vali is gonna get Ddraig's abilities unless Ise give one of BG jewels to vali (hope the author does not do this)

I hope the author do this.

aw454wtr
2014-04-27, 14:42
I hope the author do this.

Vali is op enough his power is already over 9000!!!!!!

kusabireika
2014-04-27, 14:49
But his sg isn't so I hope he gain ddraig ability to cover that weakness ._. Beside its more fun if vali gain at least one powerup from ddraig ._.

DragoMuseveni
2014-04-28, 07:02
I just imagine after ise death , after he becomes a memory inside the sacred gear what the next wielder will say if he finds out what power ups and how he did power up

kusabireika
2014-04-28, 07:08
I just imagine after ise death , after he becomes a memory inside the sacred gear what the next wielder will say if he finds out what power ups and how he did power up

^ this include vali too :3

Speaking of which they will make future holders of there Longinus do very intense hardwork and won't tell there secret they must unlock with themselves if they can subdue there memories :heh:

DocBernax2814
2014-04-28, 17:20
I just imagine after ise death , after he becomes a memory inside the sacred gear what the next wielder will say if he finds out what power ups and how he did power up

That would be thousands and thousands of years in the future.

hmm....I wonder how the status in the supernatural realm will be shaken once mankind start colonizing other planets and explore far away star systems using technology like laser guns and sabers and FTL engines.

Tbolt
2014-04-28, 17:54
That would be thousands and thousands of years in the future.

hmm....I wonder how the status in the supernatural realm will be shaken once mankind start colonizing other planets and explore far away star systems using technology like laser guns and sabers and FTL engines.

Not just that what will the humans think when Ise is there waving at them. :D

aw454wtr
2014-04-29, 03:36
I just imagine after ise death , after he becomes a memory inside the sacred gear what the next wielder will say if he finds out what power ups and how he did power up

For BG it should be no problem for the new user to use juggernaut drive safely as Ise has already removed the curse, the user merely needs to use the old juggernaut drive chant

for DD, new user still has to do everything Ise did for BG to use its juggernaut drive as Vali did not remove the curse, he is merely suppressing it with his will (which is why he cant use EJOD for more than a few minutes)

sunsengnim
2014-04-29, 04:06
For BG it should be no problem for the new user to use juggernaut drive safely as Ise has already removed the curse, the user merely needs to use the old juggernaut drive chant

for DD, new user still has to do everything Ise did for BG to use its juggernaut drive as Vali did not remove the curse, he is merely suppressing it with his will (which is why he cant use EJOD for more than a few minutes)

yes, Issei removed the curse but that doesn't mean the next users will be able to use juggernaut overdrive safely... illigal move trident is unique to Issei and he's the only one who will ever be able to use it because of his multiple mutated pieces.

the curse made the juggernaut overdrive users run wild and mad with rage it did not take their life force that's what juggernaut overdrive does because of the immense power trying to consume the user.

so no the next boosted gear users will still have to pay the price to use it.

Gary29
2014-04-29, 14:35
yes, Issei removed the curse but that doesn't mean the next users will be able to use juggernaut overdrive safely... illigal move trident is unique to Issei and he's the only one who will ever be able to use it because of his multiple mutated pieces.

the curse made the juggernaut overdrive users run wild and mad with rage it did not take their life force that's what juggernaut overdrive does because of the immense power trying to consume the user.

so no the next boosted gear users will still have to pay the price to use it.

I may have misread your post, but what does Triana have to do with the safety of future users using JD? Yes, Triana and CCQ are unique to Ise and no other Sekiryuutei will ever have access to those powers, but the past users of BG won't ever return either. They sacrificed themselves to save Ise from Samael's curse in volume 12, they're gone. Since they are gone, the curse of JD is lifted. Ise may not have the capability to use JD anymore, but future Sekiryuutei will. And there won't be any past possessors' hatred to provide JD's curse.

Even so, I have a strong feeling that there won't be any future Sekiryuutei. Ise's a Dragon, which means that he can't die unless killed (does a Devil's lifespan overwrite that?). Since Ise's already fighting God-Class enemies, there won't be very many people who could stand a chance against him, much less against him, his peerage, and the Gremory group... not to mention the Infinite Dragon Twins :heh:

sunsengnim
2014-04-30, 05:09
i mentioned triana because that's what Issei's answer was to juggernaut drive the curse only tempted/forced users of JD into madness wich means they'd stay in it till their life force was drained.

the usage of JD STILL requires huge amounts of life force/demonic power w/e to use.

triana was issei's upgrade from JD since triana doesn't have a price to use except stamina.

people seem to mistake that the curse drains your life force that's wrong the usage of JD itself drains it.

since it's unlocking a seal to harness huge amounts of power the users body isn't used to and the user most likely can barely control wich means staying in it too long means they'd lose their life because of the power devouring the user.

wich the curse forced them to do wich means the usage of JD will never be truly "safe" since all the curse did is force them into JD and blind them with rage until they lost their lives because of JD itself consuming the user.

kusabireika
2014-04-30, 06:48
i mentioned triana because that's what Issei's answer was to juggernaut drive the curse only tempted/forced users of JD into madness wich means they'd stay in it till their life force was drained.

the usage of JD STILL requires huge amounts of life force/demonic power w/e to use.

triana was issei's upgrade from JD since triana doesn't have a price to use except stamina.

people seem to mistake that the curse drains your life force that's wrong the usage of JD itself drains it.

since it's unlocking a seal to harness huge amounts of power the users body isn't used to and the user most likely can barely control wich means staying in it too long means they'd lose their life because of the power devouring the user.

wich the curse forced them to do wich means the usage of JD will never be truly "safe" since all the curse did is force them into JD and blind them with rage until they lost their lives because of JD itself consuming the user.
The exception of this rule is vali who subdue the former host of dd, like issei his problem is stamina not his life this is the answer he get from using jd ^-^ though I think I might say due to heritage :heehee:

aw454wtr
2014-04-30, 08:51
Does the Break down the beast in other SG's have the same curse or going berzerk as Juggernaut drive?

jopjopjop
2014-04-30, 09:03
Yes.

Volume 11: (needs at least 10 char to post :()
Just like Juggernaut-Drive, it will drain your life force and eventually kill you after going berserk.”

vlade
2014-04-30, 14:11
btw Junggernaut Drive are only for DD &BG right or anything with dragon inside the SG. i forget about it

aw454wtr
2014-04-30, 14:23
btw Junggernaut Drive are only for DD &BG right or anything with dragon inside the SG. i forget about it

So does saji's absorption line, which is also dragon type also have juggernaut drive?

DocBernax2814
2014-04-30, 16:15
So does saji's absorption line, which is also dragon type also have juggernaut drive?

More likely a berserk mode.

Tbolt
2014-04-30, 17:24
More likely a berserk mode.

Thats just great Saji could barely control his regular mode and now he ges BB. It should get fun from now on.

Gary29
2014-04-30, 17:53
If I remember correctly his berserk mode was Vritra Promotion, but since BB is more powerful he'll probably just be using that from now. VP could be considered a weaker version of Break Down the Beast / Juggernaut Drive, focusing on Vritra's techniques instead of raw power like the others.

Saji should be able to handle BB without going crazy, since he's managed to control VP pretty well and he didn't go berserk in volume 17.

kusabireika
2014-04-30, 17:59
If I remember correctly his berserk mode was Vritra Promotion, but since BB is more powerful he'll probably just be using that from now. VP could be considered a weaker version of Break Down the Beast / Juggernaut Drive, focusing on Vritra's techniques instead of raw power like the others.

Saji should be able to handle BB without going crazy, since he's managed to control VP pretty well and he didn't go berserk in volume 17.

Do wonder if the past host of vitra 4 sg before fusion have curse ._. I mean negative feelings of the past host, if yes then saji is very unlucky because he has double the amount of the past user unlike bg & dd :heh:

Tbolt
2014-04-30, 19:14
Do wonder if the past host of vitra 4 sg before fusion have curse ._. I mean negative feelings of the past host, if yes then saji is very unlucky because he has double the amount of the past user unlike bg & dd :heh:

And i bet they have a leg fetish!

kusabireika
2014-04-30, 19:34
And i bet they have a leg fetish!

^ why did you say that im curious :heh:

G147
2014-04-30, 20:19
btw Junggernaut Drive are only for DD &BG right or anything with dragon inside the SG. i forget about it


Juggernaut Drive is unique to Boosted Gear and Divine Dividing. For other Sacred Gears with beings sealed in it, theirs is called Breakdown the Beast serves in the same way as Juggernaut Drive.

So does saji's absorption line, which is also dragon type also have juggernaut drive?

No, since Vritra was dormant till recently, so it's not implanted with the Breakdown the Beast function.

If I remember correctly his berserk mode was Vritra Promotion, but since BB is more powerful he'll probably just be using that from now. VP could be considered a weaker version of Break Down the Beast / Juggernaut Drive, focusing on Vritra's techniques instead of raw power like the others.

Saji should be able to handle BB without going crazy, since he's managed to control VP pretty well and he didn't go berserk in volume 17.

Actually the Vritra Promotion isn't a berserker mode, Saji just can't control the power, Saji didn't lost his sanity or anything like Issei did when he awakened his JD.

Tbolt
2014-04-30, 20:52
^ why did you say that im curious :heh:

Well we have the Oppai Dragon and the Ketsu Dragon and now the Kakyaku Dragon.

But only if they like legs.

luna_maya
2014-04-30, 20:54
Well we have the Oppai Dragon and the Ketsu Dragon and now the Kakyaku Dragon.

But only if they like legs.

^ did you forget fanrir :heh: the pantsu dragon :heehee:

Tbolt
2014-04-30, 21:32
^ did you forget fanrir :heh: the pantsu dragon :heehee:

True true was trying to translate legs and forgot about Pantsu Dragon.

jopjopjop
2014-05-01, 03:31
Do wonder if the past host of vitra 4 sg before fusion have curse ._. I mean negative feelings of the past host, if yes then saji is very unlucky because he has double the amount of the past user unlike bg & dd :heh:

Just because DD and BG's past hosts' consciousness or something are inside the Sacred Gear doesn't mean that all Sacred Gear has their past hosts sealed inside them too.

vlade
2014-05-01, 05:21
i think past host conscioness only live at SG that had JD and BDtB. well because this happen when they want to destroy their enemies

aw454wtr
2014-05-16, 11:31
How strong was kokabiel in comparison to the other grigori leaders?

Vali easily beat him, heck Ise in his incomplete BB gave vali more of a challenge than kokabiel at full power

reading vol 3 again, I LOL'ed when kokabiel said he want to fight sirzechs or serafall, I'd doubt kokabiel could last 5 seconds against either of them

aw454wtr
2014-05-26, 11:37
Ise in terms of power as of vol 17 could he defeat

1. loki without the hammer?

2.Tannin going all out against Ise?

3. Kokabiel?

4. Cattelya leviathan ?

5. Cruzeray asmodeus?

DocBernax2814
2014-05-26, 11:42
Ise in terms of power as of vol 17 could he defeat

1. loki without the hammer?

2.Tannin going all out against Ise?

3. Kokabiel?

4. Cattelya leviathan ?

5. Cruzeray asmodeus?

1.- Don't think so because Loki is a trickster, a technique type. Issei will give fight, but not defeat him without help.

2.- Yes, after a very long and bloody fight.

3.- Yes, with cardinal crimson full drive.

4.- Yes, with cardinal crimson full drive.

5.- Yes, with cardinal crimson full drive.

G147
2014-05-26, 18:50
1. I don't think it's possible for Issei to beat Loki yet, it took Issei, Akeno, Saji and Baraqiel combined effort to take Loki down, and the reason they got the opportunity is because of Saji's surprise appearance.
2. Nope. Again, Tannin is somewhere close to the Maou-class, Issei is only somewhere in the High-class Devil strength. He still can't beat Tannin in an all out fight.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes

kusabireika
2014-05-26, 18:59
1. I don't think it's possible for Issei to beat Loki yet, it took Issei, Akeno, Saji and Baraqiel combined effort to take Loki down, and the reason they got the opportunity is because of Saji's surprise appearance.
2. Nope. Again, Tannin is somewhere close to the Maou-class, Issei is only somewhere in the High-class Devil strength. He still can't beat Tannin in an all out fight.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes

2. Beside tannim is more experience than issei, I guess you could say is he is more experience and have hidden ace on his sleeve :3

Royalknightftw
2014-05-26, 22:00
1. I don't think it's possible for Issei to beat Loki yet, it took Issei, Akeno, Saji and Baraqiel combined effort to take Loki down, and the reason they got the opportunity is because of Saji's surprise appearance.
2. Nope. Again, Tannin is somewhere close to the Maou-class, Issei is only somewhere in the High-class Devil strength. He still can't beat Tannin in an all out fight.
3. Yes
4. Yes
5. Yes

1. Agree
2. I think now issei is capable fighting Tannin and perhaps he could defeat Tanin. Remember that Tannin's meteor fire is on the same level of destruction as maou class not his strength. Isse is even able to have a good fight with enhanced Grendel and i think Grendel right now is even stronger than Tannin
3. Yes ( with normal balance breaker)
4. Yes ( with normal balance breaker but if her power is enhanced by Ophis's snake then using normal Triaina is enough)
5. Yes ( same as Catellya )

kusabireika
2014-05-26, 22:38
1. Agree
2. I think now issei is capable fighting Tannin and perhaps he could defeat Tanin. Remember that Tannin's meteor fire is on the same level of destruction as maou class not his strength. Isse is even able to have a good fight with enhanced Grendel and i think Grendel right now is even stronger than Tannin
3. Yes ( with normal balance breaker)
4. Yes ( with normal balance breaker but if her power is enhanced by Ophis's snake then using normal Triaina is enough)
5. Yes ( same as Catellya )
But Tannim has experience battle wise :heh: unlike grendel who use his savage instinct :P

Royalknightftw
2014-05-26, 22:47
@kusabireika But his savage instinct is what makes him hard to defeat. Imagine you fight someone who enjoys pain so much and Grendel also got some nice "upgrades" from holy grail

aw454wtr
2014-05-26, 23:47
Is grendel at dragon king level or is he higher than that?

Royalknightftw
2014-05-27, 00:33
@aw454wtr I think he is at the same level as dragon king but holy grail makes him a bit stronger

Biohazardous
2014-05-28, 10:52
You know ... recently I started wondering, if we will ever have a serious match / fight between Ise and Tannin.

After all ... the two of them, after the changes that occurred to Ise, due to his second near death experience, are pretty similar since, both Ise and Tannin are devils who have been reincarnated from dragons.

While obviously there are some differences between them, due to the fact that Ise is a humanoid dragon while Tannin is a more normal type of a dragon ... I think that the current Ise and Tannin are currently at a similar levels of power (although Tannin definitely has a lot more experience in using them).

Furthermore ... apart from portraying who is stronger between the two of them, a serious fight against Tannin could be one of the ways of training / unlocking more of Ise's dragon related powers ... since a former Dragon King definitely has a lot of experience when it comes to the abilities that dragons posses...

I could see Ise going back to him for more training. Once he gets the stamina consumption down and stablizes thing. I could see him going to Old-Man and saying I wish to make what I have learned more powerful. He would tell Old-Man not to hold back. Kiba went back to his old master so I dont see why Ise wouldnt. Old-Man is the best to train with.

Well, that would be a quite interesting plot twist and I think it has a chance of actually becoming true in the story.

The reason why I think like that is because of Sona's statement about Ise having to shoulder a karma that no god would be able to purify ... after thinking about it ... if it was simply meaning that Ise would have to deal with Ophis's company, which he doesn't seem to mind ... why would he want to purify / remove it ?

But if it also has an additional meaning of not being able to die no matter what happens ... and having to eventually see the rest of his companions passing away, with him and Ophis being the only people out of the current Gremory group + company that would remain alive ... then Sona's statement definitely rises a quite disturbing conclusion of what Ise's possible karma might be...

That would be very very painful to read. That is a hell worse than hell for Ise. Hell it would kill the girls knowing Ise will out live them.

even if his life force goes to infinite thanks to his new body he uses it up like it's going out of style.

im sure if that's the case Ishibumi will put him in an unfair position again as to force him to use it up to protect the people he loves.

I think if it really is true that as of the moment its not possible to die this will happen. Actually it is the perfect way to find out what these latent dragons can do espeically if he unlocked them both at the same time. Ise gets pushed to the edge and reaches deep within himself pulling for every fiber of his being to fight. Both Great Red and Orphis unlock. He fights with the power of all three dragons collapsing at the end and sleeping for days. He wake up to Koneko on him naked and she informs him that his life has gone from infinite to some stable number.

DocBernax2814
2014-05-28, 18:17
I think Issei need to train with someone of great power.

Like one of the gods of nord or even Great Red.

Royalknightftw
2014-05-28, 18:32
@Docbernaxxx The way i see it Issei could train with Crom Cruach since his dream is to see dragons reaching the whole new level and Crom seems to have a good grasp about Issei's potential, after Issei's training with him they have to kill each other

Biohazardous
2014-05-28, 18:37
I think Issei need to train with someone of great power.

Like one of the gods of nord or even Great Red.

That is true but I doubt Great Red would want to leave and spend time training. Old-Man would gladly help Ise. Humm maybe Ophis will train him.

Gary29
2014-05-28, 18:40
That is true but I doubt Great Red would want to leave and spend time training. Old-Man would gladly help Ise. Humm maybe Ophis will train him.

Who better to help Ise unlock his dormant powers than Ophis-chan? :D

Biohazardous
2014-05-28, 18:42
That would be nice then we can get more action from her. I loved that shopping short story with her and her describing who she was with. I was cracking up reading that and picturing them animating that. Omg need a OVA for that right MEOW.

Gary29
2014-05-28, 18:45
Well, Ishibumi said he plans to write more things about Lilith (Ophis' other half) in this arc, so we should be getting more development with Ophis as well.

DocBernax2814
2014-06-03, 17:58
Longinus Smasher, the most powerful and prohibited weapon in Issei arsenal.

But how powerful it really is?

We know that a blast while fused with Great Red can kill something as monumental as the Jabberwoki and one normal blast almost kill Shalba.

But how powerful it really is? Powerfull enough to kill any of the peers of Rias? a Maou? a god?

Comments please!

sunsengnim
2014-06-03, 18:08
Longinus Smasher, the most powerful and prohibited weapon in Issei arsenal.

But how powerful it really is?

We know that a blast while fused with Great Red can kill something as monumental as the Jabberwoki and one normal blast almost kill Shalba.

But how powerful it really is? Powerfull enough to kill any of the peers of Rias? a Maou? a god?

Comments please!

longinus smasher = a tool that can destroy longinus weapons wich can kill gods.

so we can assume Issei can kill anything up to god level wich pretty much means nobody is safe it's prohibited for a reason.

Gary29
2014-06-03, 18:14
longinus smasher = a tool that can destroy longinus weapons wich can kill gods.

so we can assume Issei can kill anything up to god level wich pretty much means nobody is safe it's prohibited for a reason.

It doesn't actually destroy Longinus, it just has an extremely high destructive output. And with that, it also has a massive stamina consumption.

It's strong enough to be on par with a Maou (not counting Sirzechs and Ajuka's true forms) but not God-level yet. It could definitely kill anyone at the level of Rias' peerage though.

sunsengnim
2014-06-03, 18:20
It doesn't actually destroy Longinus, it just has an extremely high destructive output. And with that, it also has a massive stamina consumption.

It's strong enough to be on par with a Maou (not counting Sirzechs and Ajuka's true forms) but not God-level yet. It could definitely kill anyone at the level of Rias' peerage though.

i doubt it would be prohibited if that's all there was to it would kind of make it not that impressive.

it's power will no doubt improve drastically since he almost killed euclid who in the fake BB could've been considered maou class wich should be on par with god class if im not mistaken.

Gary29
2014-06-03, 18:24
i doubt it would be prohibited if that's all there was to it would kind of make it not that impressive.

it's power will no doubt improve drastically since this was only the second time he used it and the first time he used it without being in JOD.

Well, it depends what you think of when I say extreme. The sky literally stayed red after he used it.

Actually it's the second time he used it without being in JD, since he was in Balance Breaker when he fused with Great Red.

sunsengnim
2014-06-03, 18:26
Well, it depends what you think of when I say extreme. The sky literally stayed red after he used it.

Actually it's the second time he used it without being in JD, since he was in Balance Breaker when he fused with Great Red.

well i ignored that one since he was fused with great reds energy ;)
which meant it wasn't entirely with his own power so it would fall out the window since we're trying to ascertain its power.

DocBernax2814
2014-06-04, 11:40
well i ignored that one since he was fused with great reds energy ;)
which meant it wasn't entirely with his own power so it would fall out the window since we're trying to ascertain its power.

Exacly pretty apple pie!!!

We are going to take in consideration the 2 times Issei use it on his own.
When against Shalba the first time and in the coming volume 17.

It has to be very, VERY, powerful to prohibit its use.

So at the very least it has to be in god killing level.

jopjopjop
2014-06-04, 12:20
If we base its destructive level with those two fights, then it's not in god-killing level yet.

Issei in incomplete JD + Longinus Smasher = near dead Shalba with Ophis' snake
Issei in CCQ + Longinus Smasher = defeats Euclid in Fake BGSM.


So, not yet.

DocBernax2814
2014-06-04, 17:47
If we base its destructive level with those two fights, then it's not in god-killing level yet.

Issei in incomplete JD + Longinus Smasher = near dead Shalba with Ophis' snake
Issei in CCQ + Longinus Smasher = defeats Euclid in Fake BGSM.


So, not yet.


Okay, then, why prohibit it then?

G147
2014-06-04, 19:28
Ddraig responds to me immediately, and the chest-part of the Boosted-Gear Scale-mail slides open. Then a cannon appears. This is….
[…..Longinus Smasher. It’s a taboo power which you are not supposed to attain.]
Ddraig says that with a low voice. ……Longinus Smasher. I think one of my comrades said I used it when I went into Juggernaut-Drive. They said I blasted off Shalba in one hit with it.
I believe the prohibited one is the JD, Longinus Smasher was only unlocked after Issei entered JD after all.

assmdxd
2014-06-08, 02:25
i wish issei in the future learn some Martial Arts and how to use Touki like Sairaorg Bael

teejmo
2014-06-08, 02:40
i wish issei in the future learn some Martial Arts and how to use Touki like Sairaorg Bael

He's basically learning Martial Arts from the Monkey King right now, and Sairaorg's Touki was a complete accident after he trained his body past the limits. Ise has the Boosted Gear and dragon abilities he needs to focus on, as well as an interest in magic. To go after something that has basically 0% likelihood of obtaining would be pointless. If he maxes out his current abilities, basically no one would be able to take him on lightly, if at all.

Biohazardous
2014-06-08, 06:16
He's basically learning Martial Arts from the Monkey King right now, and Sairaorg's Touki was a complete accident after he trained his body past the limits. Ise has the Boosted Gear and dragon abilities he needs to focus on, as well as an interest in magic. To go after something that has basically 0% likelihood of obtaining would be pointless. If he maxes out his current abilities, basically no one would be able to take him on lightly, if at all.

He cant be taken lightly now but, I get your point. :p

jopjopjop
2014-06-09, 02:44
Hmm. Since nothing's going around. I'd like to have a discussion about Saji's added Sacred Gears.

Till now, we know 3 Sacred Gears are added to Saji namely Delete Field, Absorption Line, and Blaze Black Fire. And we also know that there are other Vritra Sacred Gears.

But when I reread that part, I think we misunderstood something. And that is...

Saji doesn't have just 4... he has all 16 of them. Yes, there are 16 Vritra Sacred Gears all in all.


Look at this line.
But if you were to group them, there are four types of [Absorption Line], [Blaze Black Flare], [Delete Field], and [Shadow Prison]. These Sacred Gears were hidden with each possessor with some differences. And our organisation, Grigori, retrieved them and put the Vritra-type Sacred Gears that we kept into Saji-kun.

4 (types)x 4 (SG)= 16. And the next sentence says that Grigori collected them and added those to Saji.

~So what do you think? Is my speculation about Vritra Gears correct? :heh::D

Biohazardous
2014-06-09, 06:08
Jop I thought it was a tempory give them all to him thing? Guess I remember that part wrong. That many pieces permenant seems like it will be too much for the pieces he contants. Wouldnt that make him need to be like Ise and have 8 vs 5. I'll go with him having them all just to continue convo. I dont see that many really doing much for him right now. He is beating himself up to much. If he still has them all and wants to use them fully I think it will take motivation. If he could be assured of gaining Sona I think it will be the drive he needs to fully unlock them all. He is into Sona like Ise is for Rias. He just doesnt have the drive to push to make her happy and hope that it results in changing her mind.

DocBernax2814
2014-06-09, 11:57
Hmm. Since nothing's going around. I'd like to have a discussion about Saji's added Sacred Gears.

Till now, we know 3 Sacred Gears are added to Saji namely Delete Field, Absorption Line, and Blaze Black Fire. And we also know that there are other Vritra Sacred Gears.

But when I reread that part, I think we misunderstood something. And that is...

Saji doesn't have just 4... he has all 16 of them. Yes, there are 16 Vritra Sacred Gears all in all.


Look at this line.


4 (types)x 4 (SG)= 16. And the next sentence says that Grigori collected them and added those to Saji.

~So what do you think? Is my speculation about Vritra Gears correct? :heh::D

If that so, It would explain the armor a little bit more. Since we can imply that each part of the armor represent each sacred gear in Saji body.

kusabireika
2014-06-10, 06:56
Hmm just curious if you gonna make all star peearage of the rookie 4 who will you pick from king to pawn?

Lastly do you thing agares will gain a dragon type and Longinus "Issei & Regulus"/somewhat Longinus "Saji" in her peearage like the other 3 of rookie 4

Gremory = Humanoid True Dragon
Sitri = Human with Dragon King SG
Bael = Devil that can transform to a Dragon

Just like the current maou who have legendary creature in their peerage?

Maybe a mecha dragon like Gogmagog :heehee: in her peerage XD

DocBernax2814
2014-06-10, 11:57
Hmm just curious if you gonna make all star peearage of the rookie 4 who will you pick from king to pawn?

Lastly do you thing agares will gain a dragon type and Longinus "Issei & Regulus"/somewhat Longinus "Saji" in her peearage like the other 3 of rookie 4

Gremory = Humanoid True Dragon
Sitri = Human with Dragon King SG
Bael = Devil that can transform to a Dragon

Just like the current maou who have legendary creature in their peerage?

Maybe a mecha dragon like Gogmagog :heehee: in her peerage XD

That's the problem, we don't know anything about her peerage. Hopefully that will be fixed in future stories.

Royalknightftw
2014-06-10, 13:22
Hmm. Since nothing's going around. I'd like to have a discussion about Saji's added Sacred Gears.

Till now, we know 3 Sacred Gears are added to Saji namely Delete Field, Absorption Line, and Blaze Black Fire. And we also know that there are other Vritra Sacred Gears.

But when I reread that part, I think we misunderstood something. And that is...

Saji doesn't have just 4... he has all 16 of them. Yes, there are 16 Vritra Sacred Gears all in all.


Look at this line.


4 (types)x 4 (SG)= 16. And the next sentence says that Grigori collected them and added those to Saji.

~So what do you think? Is my speculation about Vritra Gears correct? :heh::D

I can see that as a possibility, although it doesn't change the fact that saji still only has four techniques in his current SG

Royalknightftw
2014-06-10, 13:30
Hmm just curious if you gonna make all star peearage of the rookie 4 who will you pick from king to pawn?

Lastly do you thing agares will gain a dragon type and Longinus "Issei & Regulus"/somewhat Longinus "Saji" in her peearage like the other 3 of rookie 4

Gremory = Humanoid True Dragon
Sitri = Human with Dragon King SG
Bael = Devil that can transform to a Dragon

Just like the current maou who have legendary creature in their peerage?

Maybe a mecha dragon like Gogmagog :heehee: in her peerage XD

The problem is, Gremory's peerage is already all-star

What i can see is Opantsu Dragon Mecha version as agarest's new peerage :D

jopjopjop
2014-06-10, 13:34
What i can see is Opantsu Dragon Mecha version as agarest's new peerage :D

Fafnir tried to be one in Seekvaira's SS. Remember in Volume 15 where Sahariel proposed on turning Issei into a Dragon Tank?

They did that on Fafnir. He sat atop of a robot and Sahariel said it's a Dragon Chariot but ofc, it isn't the case for Fafnir. For him it's (mecha) panties. :heh:

DocBernax2814
2014-06-10, 14:31
Fafnir tried to be one in Seekvaira's SS. Remember in Volume 15 where Sahariel proposed on turning Issei into a Dragon Tank?

They did that on Fafnir. He sat atop of a robot and Sahariel said it's a Dragon Chariot but ofc, it isn't the case for Fafnir. For him it's (mecha) panties. :heh:

. . . . . . ok, you can shoot me now.

Tbolt
2014-06-10, 18:00
Fafnir tried to be one in Seekvaira's SS. Remember in Volume 15 where Sahariel proposed on turning Issei into a Dragon Tank?

They did that on Fafnir. He sat atop of a robot and Sahariel said it's a Dragon Chariot but ofc, it isn't the case for Fafnir. For him it's (mecha) panties. :heh:

Just call it the Iron Maiden Pantsu Dragon King.

kusabireika
2014-06-10, 18:17
Fafnir tried to be one in Seekvaira's SS. Remember in Volume 15 where Sahariel proposed on turning Issei into a Dragon Tank?

They did that on Fafnir. He sat atop of a robot and Sahariel said it's a Dragon Chariot but ofc, it isn't the case for Fafnir. For him it's (mecha) panties. :heh:

Quick question if its ok to ask? What is the personality of agares?

Is she strong too based on ss

Last question who is the man he is talking to is it sahariel?

Endscape
2014-06-10, 21:51
Fafnir tried to be one in Seekvaira's SS. Remember in Volume 15 where Sahariel proposed on turning Issei into a Dragon Tank?

They did that on Fafnir. He sat atop of a robot and Sahariel said it's a Dragon Chariot but ofc, it isn't the case for Fafnir. For him it's (mecha) panties. :heh:

I wasn't aware that Seekvaira had a SS. What's it about?

LowCholesterol
2014-06-16, 20:39
i have a question.
do you think Asia could learn the "reverse" ?
that ability would make her more useful in battle, i think...

sunsengnim
2014-06-16, 20:52
i have a question.
do you think Asia could learn the "reverse" ?
that ability would make her more useful in battle, i think...



a healer that can heal ANY wound except death blows is MORE useful then you realize + it's also her personality she can't hurt anything or anyone did you forget that part?

it's because of her the gremory team can keep fighting the way they do...

LowCholesterol
2014-06-16, 23:38
yea, i didn't forget her personality

i just think about asia self defence.

sunsengnim
2014-06-17, 00:25
yea, i didn't forget her personality

i just think about asia self defence.

she's always in the back being protected by everyone and in the event ANYTHING gets trough the front line (which never happens) she has fafnir + she's getting a power-up soon which will most likely be defensive knowing her personality so she doesn't need reverse.

Royalknightftw
2014-06-17, 04:19
@Sungsenim I agree about what you said but i think what Asia needs now is a Defensive technique so Issei and the others would be able to fight without worrying Asia's condition. Asia is also able to be free from Opantsu Dragon's grasp :D

LowCholesterol
2014-06-17, 05:34
@Sungsenim I agree about what you said but i think what Asia needs now is a Defensive technique so Issei and the others would be able to fight without worrying Asia's condition. Asia is also able to be free from Opantsu Dragon's grasp :D

this is what i meant @sunsengnim :)

the stronger enemy would make the Rias's group having a harder battle, and this meant the chance of protecting Asia is loosen.

About that perverted dragon-king Fafnir, i know that he is strong, but can he protect Asia from (ex.) bunch of evil dragon who possess the strength of crom cruach/grendel ?

aah,i write too long~~

jopjopjop
2014-06-17, 06:59
@PantsuSister What you're suggesting is to make Asia an offensive-type (with her heal being reversed) and what @sunsengnim says is Asia just to have a way to defend herself.

They aren't the same.

LowCholesterol
2014-06-17, 07:28
oops, sorry about that. it looks i have a misunderstanding

Biohazardous
2014-06-17, 07:35
Id like to see Asia being able to heal stamina. The Gremories are known for unexpected/impossible things and would love to see her do that. If they want her to able to protect herself or be a lil offensive beyond pets I would prefer her heals have a smart system that follows those she truely loves. If you arent her ally it will hurt you.

Carnage
2014-06-17, 08:10
Wait until asia reaches her BB. We might see something awesome.

GDB
2014-06-17, 09:03
In before she gets holy dragon armor that, while having no offensive capabilities, is basically Avalon from FSN.

jopjopjop
2014-06-17, 09:06
Hmm. How about a skill like Devotion (http://ratemyserver.net/skill_db.php?skid=255&small=1&back=1) of Crusaders in RO. And the damage will be linked to Fafnir. :D

And because of that, Fafnir will become a Pantsu-loving Masochistic Dragon.

GrrDraxin
2014-06-17, 09:56
Knowing her, it could be something like Damage Absorption & Conversion and Channeling that energy as healing to herself and her allies. Which makes me wonder if she could use her healing on herself or not. I don't recall her needing to do so, but still had she ever needed to heal herself? But yeah, if she could take a beating and not be hurt, like having a shield that would power up the more damage it takes, and also give her energy to heal more efficiently, that would be cool.

Gary29
2014-06-17, 10:35
A shield that becomes more powerful the more damage it takes... isn't that near-invincibility?

jopjopjop
2014-06-17, 10:47
The only way to bypass that defense is to tickle them to death. :heh:

GrrDraxin
2014-06-17, 10:49
... Until it overloads and then explodes in a massive KABOOM. Asia will be fine, maybe a little ruffled, but everyone else in her vicinity won't be. ...Well, those outside the shield anyway.

Tbolt
2014-06-17, 18:55
Well we know that Asia would not hurt even an enemy, but what IF her new ability is that when she heals a good guy the damage is automatically returned to the enemy who caused the damage.

She might not like it but I think that she could live with it.

LowCholesterol
2014-06-20, 09:10
Well we know that Asia would not hurt even an enemy, but what IF her new ability is that when she heals a good guy the damage is automatically returned to the enemy who caused the damage.

She might not like it but I think that she could live with it.

you're right. she must fight against his feeling, just like akeno and koneko when they trying to use holy-lightning & nekomata mode

DocBernax2814
2014-06-20, 11:58
you're right. she must fight against his feeling, just like akeno and koneko when they trying to use holy-lightning & nekomata mode

Do you realize that now that Asias is going to command a dragon army, this point doesn't matter any more, right?

Gary29
2014-06-20, 12:04
Ishibumi: Coming up with original ways to negate people's weaknesses since DxD started!

sunsengnim
2014-06-20, 14:34
well now that Asia has a god damned DRAGON ARMY the whole DxD team is super offensive styled.

kind of interested how she'll be using them from now on.

DocBernax2814
2014-06-20, 17:30
well now that Asia has a god damned DRAGON ARMY the whole DxD team is super offensive styled.

kind of interested how she'll be using them from now on.

Asia: "Umm, mister dragon, can you do me a small favor and please help my friends fight the bad guy."

Something like that I suppose.

She is not very bossy you know.

sunsengnim
2014-06-20, 18:45
true she's not really the "leader" type and someone said they're only around mid-class in power.

so im assuming they'll only be used in defensive/support tactics and never actually go on full offense except if there's grunts to deal with.
i gotta admit it's kinda gonna be really badass to see a few dragons in a defensive position around Asia from now on.

Tbolt
2014-06-20, 18:58
We haven't read it yet But in one of n0m@ns translations Fafnir created something like Panty Stew that the past hosts loved, so maybe the evil dragons like it to if Asia cooks it for they.

You know she is close to inheriting the taste of the Hyoudou house.

jopjopjop
2014-06-20, 19:04
^ There's even a recipe for that. I'll look for it and post it here later so everyone will know how to cook that delicious meal.

GDB
2014-06-20, 19:12
You know she is close to inheriting the taste of the Hyoudou house.

In before Issei's parents were actually dragon tamers before retiring to start a family.

jopjopjop
2014-06-20, 19:22
Some of the ingredients :

Onions, cut to pieces
Garlic, cut to pieces
Olive oil
Salt
Pepper
Starch
Asia's panties - the fresher the better, if you know what I mean. :heh::eyespin:

Some of the steps to prepare the meal :

Evenly spread the powders on the panties
Then fry it in oil in high-temperature.

Tbolt
2014-06-20, 19:28
^ Ahhhhhh Panty tempura!

sunsengnim
2014-06-20, 19:29
^ Fafnir just lost his redemption

Gary29
2014-06-20, 19:34
^ Fafnir just lost his redemption

Not fair, he was redeemed before most people even knew of his panty-recipe, but his rampage occurred after this! :heh:

GDB
2014-06-20, 19:37
^ Fafnir just lost his redemption

Better than wearing them on his nose, in my opinion.

DragonKing0117
2014-06-29, 17:21
How about we do it like this then. We wait until the part where Fafnir makes the panty dish to hate him as much as possible. Then, when Volume 18 is translated and we see him snap, then we re-redeem him in our eyes.

Biohazardous
2014-06-30, 06:21
How about we do it like this then. We wait until the part where Fafnir makes the panty dish to hate him as much as possible. Then, when Volume 18 is translated and we see him snap, then we re-redeem him in our eyes.

Ok that works

Chris38
2014-07-13, 06:49
Well, I don't know if anyone would agree, but ...


After seeing what Ise is capable of with .. a most likely, incomplete and not mastered yet Longinus Smasher ... I'm even more convinced that the dormant, mixed power of Great Red and Ophis is going to take the form of a power belonging to the technique type category.

After all ... I think that Longinus Smasher is already going to be a quite efficient finishing move for Ise and I hardly see the need for him, to be equipped with something that would be even stronger then that move, while a new technique type power - that also might be usable in a Rating Game, would be a pretty good addition to the skills that Ise already has...

S.Freedom
2014-07-14, 12:46
Honestly, I've been thinking that the combo of Ophis/GR's power would give Issei a +15 to everything he currently has.

Meaning longinus smasher would be 15 times stronger than it is right now. Or that his Cardnial Crimson Queen form would be 15 time stronger than it is. And not necessarily a new "power" so much as making his existing power(s) even stronger.

saw2097
2014-07-15, 17:02
It occurs to me that Ddraig and Albion probably have other sealed abilities besides just the two we have learned of.

I think that Vali will awaken Reflect and another ability that is locked away, something Ise won't have even after taking a part of the Vanishing Dragon's power.

I go back to an earlier idea that Alibion has some kind of Invisibility power, but that seems kind of small for a Heavenly Dragon, and if Ddraig has the strongest spear (penetration) and Albion has the strongest Shield (Reflect) that makes me think he will have an ability that will allow him be the strongest stealth, something that makes him impossible to detect with any of the senses.

Another possibility is that it will be something that allows Vali to get around Rizevim's Sacred Gear Canceler, as I am not sure he will be willing to take part of Ddraig's power to get his revenge.

However I would go back to when Ise used the Juggarnaut Drive, he was able to produce swords and arms from the jewels, I think that what he was doing was converting energy into matter.

The last possibility is that Albion can do the reverse by converting matter into energy and absorbing it, he does steal power using Divide after all, while Ddraig creates power, so Ddraig can turn power into matter and Albion can turn matter into power.

Biohazardous
2014-07-15, 18:22
It occurs to me that Ddraig and Albion probably have other sealed abilities besides just the two we have learned of.

I think that Vali will awaken Reflect and another ability that is locked away, something Ise won't have even after taking a part of the Vanishing Dragon's power.

I go back to an earlier idea that Alibion has some kind of Invisibility power, but that seems kind of small for a Heavenly Dragon, and if Ddraig has the strongest spear (penetration) and Albion has the strongest Shield (Reflect) that makes me think he will have an ability that will allow him be the strongest stealth, something that makes him impossible to detect with any of the senses.

Another possibility is that it will be something that allows Vali to get around Rizevim's Sacred Gear Canceler, as I am not sure he will be willing to take part of Ddraig's power to get his revenge.

However I would go back to when Ise used the Juggarnaut Drive, he was able to produce swords and arms from the jewels, I think that what he was doing was converting energy into matter.

The last possibility is that Albion can do the reverse by converting matter into energy and absorbing it, he does steal power using Divide after all, while Ddraig creates power, so Ddraig can turn power into matter and Albion can turn matter into power.

Don't forget part of the reason Ise can do this is because he took a jewel from Vali. I don't think Vali can use one of DDraig's abilities without taking the risk and doing the same thing.

saw2097
2014-07-15, 18:26
Don't forget part of the reason Ise can do this is because he took a jewel from Vali. I don't think Vali can use one of DDraig's abilities without taking the risk and doing the same thing.

Yeah that's exactly what I am saying, it was noted that it could have killed Ise.

So its unlikely that Vali will do the same, so he is going to probably awaken some other abilities of Albion besides just Reflect, because that is a lot of effort for just one move.

B214
2014-07-15, 18:54
Who knows? Remember those locked abilities were unlocked through the mutual understanding from the Two Heavenly Dragons. It may be one of the hidden factors set up by the God from the Bible to allow the Possessors of the BG and DD to be able to be able to use the full powers of both the Heavenly Dragons.

It wouldn't be that surprising if the original purpose of the BG and DD is for both Sacred Gears to be able to use the powers of the 2 Heavenly Dragons.

Tbolt
2014-07-15, 19:10
Who knows? Remember those locked abilities were unlocked through the mutual understanding from the Two Heavenly Dragons. It may be one of the hidden factors set up by the God from the Bible to allow the Possessors of the BG and DD to be able to be able to use the full powers of both the Heavenly Dragons.

It wouldn't be that surprising if the original purpose of the BG and DD is for both Sacred Gears to be able to use the powers of the 2 Heavenly Dragons.

For me I don't think that is possible, if it was other possessors would have had the ability also since "Ise is the weakest possessor". But it did not happen till Ise inserted the broken jewel into his BG.

Biohazardous
2014-07-15, 21:13
I agree with Tbolt I don't think its possible either.



The mutual understanding probably allowed continued use beyond that one time.

Chichiryuushintei
2014-07-15, 23:01
For me I don't think that is possible, if it was other possessors would have had the ability also since "Ise is the weakest possessor". But it did not happen till Ise inserted the broken jewel into his BG.

Am I the only one who hates how they still call him the "weakest Boosted Gear possessor ever"?

Seriously, how can they call him that after all the power-ups he got?

He unlocked a power that surpasses the Juggernaut Drive, which was the limit of every other possessor, merged a DD jewel with BG unlocking 2 abilities of their archnemesis, one of them being unknown to the STRONGEST Divine Dividing possessor, and has a body made with the flesh and power of the 2 strongest beings in the world (He still can't use their power, and won't be at their level, of course, but it's still a shit load of potential).

saw2097
2014-07-15, 23:09
Am I the only one who hates how they still call him the "weakest Boosted Gear possessor ever"?

Seriously, how can they call him that after all the power-ups he got?

He unlocked a power that surpasses the Juggernaut Drive, which was the limit of every other possessor, merged a DD jewel with BG unlocking 2 abilities of their archnemesis, one of them being unknown to the STRONGEST Divine Dividing possessor, and has a body made with the flesh and power of the 2 strongest beings in the world (He still can't use their power, and won't be at their level, of course, but it's still a shit load of potential).

And he is going to get even stronger as well.

It is annoying that he is still referred to as the weakest Boosted gear user at this point.

He is able to use the Longinus Smasher, the Boosted Gear's strongest known move, without using Juggarnaut Drive, and he is awakening abilities that no other Boosted Gear user has ever had.

Chichiryuushintei
2014-07-15, 23:24
And he is going to get even stronger as well.

It is annoying that he is still referred to as the weakest Boosted gear user at this point.

He is able to use the Longinus Smasher, the Boosted Gear's strongest known move, without using Juggarnaut Drive, and he is awakening abilities that no other Boosted Gear user has ever had.

Exactly, I understand if he's not as strong as Belzard and Elsha, since they're the strongest in history and probably could use the BG to an extreme level without the JD, but he can't be the weakest.

B214
2014-07-16, 01:50
Issei is known as the weakest host not possessor. He's known as that because aside from the Boosted Gear, Issei has no special or distinctive skills. Issei has low proficiency in Demonic Powers, he's not smart enough to use super powerful magic. He's not a skilled swordsman or some martial arts master. But as a Boosted Gear possessor, Issei would be ranked as one of the best. I'll just quote something that an user in Wikia said.

Take the word "host" for a moment a try to use your logic for a while.Let's take Issei and Euclid for example .Issei beat Euclid because he was able to pull the power of Ddraig in a unique way ,if we remove the Boosted Gears and have them fight ,who would win?As I said Issei is the weakest host not the weakest user ,he is probably ranked first or 2nd or 3rd after Elsha and Bel.....whatever his name was .Try to use you logic for a while will ya -__-

teejmo
2014-07-16, 01:59
Issei is known as the weakest host not possessor. He's known as that because aside from the Boosted Gear, Issei has no special or distinctive skills. Issei has low proficiency in Demonic Powers, he's not smart enough to use super powerful magic. He's not a skilled swordsman or some martial arts master. But as a Boosted Gear possessor, Issei would be ranked as one of the best. I'll just quote something that an user in Wikia said.

I think that can be considered past tense now, though, since he's now a humanoid dragon. Considering dragons are the most feared mythical creatures in the DxD world, and now one has Boosted Gear... that might be somewhat scary. Not to mention the said humanoid dragon is a product of the Infinite Dragon God's magic and the Apocalypse Dragon's body... yeah, I don't think he can be considered the weakest host anymore.

BlackWyvern
2014-07-16, 02:14
I think that can be considered past tense now, though, since he's now a humanoid dragon. Considering dragons are the most feared mythical creatures in the DxD world, and now one has Boosted Gear... that might be somewhat scary. Not to mention the said humanoid dragon is a product of the Infinite Dragon God's magic and the Apocalypse Dragon's body... yeah, I don't think he can be considered the weakest host anymore.

Like the wika info says.... "if we remove the Boosted Gears and have them fight ,who would win" Issei still has only his Gear what makes him what he is. Remember he cant even fly without his gear, something any Devil can do. The Host might be a Dragon... but without Power a Dragon still is weak.

G147
2014-07-16, 02:15
Issei also hasn't shown any special or new powers even with his new body. Remember the immortal words of Ddraig to poor Issei.
[On top of that Uroboros’ power is added into it. Even in this state, your basic physical abilities have improved a bit from before. ……Well you were originally crap to begin with, so it only improved that much……]

Biohazardous
2014-07-16, 09:09
Am I the only one who hates how they still call him the "weakest Boosted Gear possessor ever"?

Seriously, how can they call him that after all the power-ups he got?

He unlocked a power that surpasses the Juggernaut Drive, which was the limit of every other possessor, merged a DD jewel with BG unlocking 2 abilities of their archnemesis, one of them being unknown to the STRONGEST Divine Dividing possessor, and has a body made with the flesh and power of the 2 strongest beings in the world (He still can't use their power, and won't be at their level, of course, but it's still a shit load of potential).

I agree. We are kind of getting away from that though. Look at what DDraig said when offered to trade. DDraig has more respect and love for him than any of his other hosts. If I understand it right he even risked himself saving Ise when he pulled his soul and protected it.

Like the wika info says.... "if we remove the Boosted Gears and have them fight ,who would win" Issei still has only his Gear what makes him what he is. Remember he cant even fly without his gear, something any Devil can do. The Host might be a Dragon... but without Power a Dragon still is weak.

These words got me thinking. We have an enemy that basically strips BG from you since they don't work on him. I don't think Ise is as weak as he once was even taking the gear away. Ise does the impossible and I think it would be dumb to count him out. This is yet another way we can see Great Red's/Ophis's powers awaken. He is not fully human any more. Take the gear and he will fight anyway. He will not allow himself to be defeated and having his loved ones die. This creates the same type of scenario that brought JD. In his search for power within himself he pulls out Great Red's and Ophis's power that are apart of him.

G147
2014-07-16, 10:03
But without the Boosted Gear, Issei still can't win. Lets take Volume 17, both Euclid and Issei don't have the Boosted Gear, who do you think will win if they fight 1-on-1.

saw2097
2014-07-16, 10:12
But without the Boosted Gear, Issei still can't win. Lets take Volume 17, both Euclid and Issei don't have the Boosted Gear, who do you think will win if they fight 1-on-1.

The majority of people in the light novel can't beat Euclid even before he had the Boosted Gear Replica, he is extremely powerful.

evalot1997
2014-07-16, 10:40
Well in his defense,he was just nothing more than a regular human teenager till his fated encounter with rias... Which is definitely not long by any stretch of imagination.

G147
2014-07-16, 10:48
@saw2097 True, well supposing if Euclid is a bad choice, do you think the current Issei can beat any of his past opponents without the Boosted Gear.

Opponents like Riser, Kokabiel, Diodora, Shalba, Cao Cao etc.

Unfortunately the answer is still no. But there's nothing wrong with that, if being the weakest host allows Issei to become the best user, then what's wrong with being weak, at least Issei became stronger not as an individual person but as a true Red Dragon Emperor, something no person could achieve in the past.

sunsengnim
2014-07-16, 10:56
Yes, take away the Boosted Gear and Issei is only a humanoid dragon (not to mention mythology portrays dragon scale's as some of the strongest defence) with an insane amount of combat experience which equals to an expert if not a master ranking in close combat.

Yes, he'd lose to Euclid in this state but who wouldn't?!
Euclid is a top tier Ultimate class devil it's a really unfair comparison.

Yes, he has the weakest base stats of all the previous hosts that's not hard since he's a completely pure human.

Gary29
2014-07-16, 11:12
Take away the Boosted Gear and you're left with a humanoid Dragon with a ton of combat experience. He may not be able to defeat high-level opponents without the BG, but he at least has his powers of Dragonification from volume 14. Like G147 said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being the weakest host if you become the greatest Sekiryuutei.

I'm really curious how that's going to change when he unlocks his inherent GR/Ophis powers though. It's most likely going to be a technique power, but would it be powerful enough to take on high-level opponents without the Boosted Gear? It is coming from the 2 most powerful beings in existence.

Biohazardous
2014-07-16, 11:37
Take away the Boosted Gear and you're left with a humanoid Dragon with a ton of combat experience. He may not be able to defeat high-level opponents without the BG, but he at least has his powers of Dragonification from volume 14. Like G147 said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with being the weakest host if you become the greatest Sekiryuutei.

I'm really curious how that's going to change when he unlocks his inherent GR/Ophis powers though. It's most likely going to be a technique power, but would it be powerful enough to take on high-level opponents without the Boosted Gear? It is coming from the 2 most powerful beings in existence.

I think the fact it comes from the 2 most powerful beings is going to mean something. I don't think this was done by accident. I cant wait to see how he uses the power. The author probably had an idea and reason as soon as he thought of doing it.

This is Ise people don't count him out even if the gear is taken. Not after all he has done and learned.

Chris38
2014-07-16, 12:48
Well, if I remember correctly ... we had a little insight on what the current Ise is capable of without the BG, during the events of volume 14, where Ddraig was asleep and as a result of that Ise wasn't capable of efficiently using his Boosted Gear powers.

Based upon that moment, I definitely don't agree with the statements that the current Ise would be completely useless without it - certainly he wouldn't be capable of defeating some of the opponents that he did in the past, by using his Boosted Gear powers, but he wouldn't turn into sitting duck, like what would have happened, if someone has sealed / taken away his BG while he would still be a Devil reincarnated from a normal human.

Of course, personally I doubt that there is going to be a situation where Ise is going to have to fight without using any of his Boosted Gear powers, since it became ... pretty much a necessary part of his combat style and taking it away from him would be similar to asking Kiba or Xenovia to fight without using their swords.

Furthermore, based upon the latest translated volume ... I think that the final 'form' of Ise's powers is going to be a combat style where he is going to be able to quickly switch between each of the dragons powers that are contained within his body.

Basically that each of the dragons 'power' is going to grant Ise with a few different techniques and each of those dragons powers (Ddraig's, Albion's and the 'mixed' power of Great Red and Ophis) are going to have different weak points, which would be covered up, by the other dragons power - naturally, apart from the weakness to Dragon Slaying attacks, which obviously won't be nullified.

The reason why I think something like that is going to occur is because if Ise would use those powers together, he would technically reach an invincible state , where he won't be capable of losing against his opponents, unless Ise runs out of Stamina or is fighting against an opponent who will be capable of catching him at the moment where he is switching between the different dragon powers or ... finally is capable of using a Dragon Slaying item or has an attack that has similar properties as Dragon Slaying items.

I also think that we are already seeing signs that something like that is occurring with the way Ise started using Albion's and Ddraig's powers in the latest translated volume.

Now we just have to wait for the moment, where Ise is going to face an opponent *cough*Rizevim*cough* who will be capable of mostly covering up Albion's and Ddraig's powers that Ise has ... but against whom Ophis's and Great Red's powers will be pretty effective against for this speculation of mine to become official.

P. S. By the way, sorry for the quite long post ... I just couldn't stop writing what came to my mind, when it comes to this particular topic :uhoh:

BlackWyvern
2014-07-16, 12:53
you know... just maybe all the gets from Ophis and Great Red new body is lifetime... since his last body lost alot of his lifetime because of JD and everytime he pushed a bit to far.

The MC dosnt needs a new bloody Power each Volume.....

Gary29
2014-07-16, 13:03
I also think that we are already seeing signs that something like that is occurring with the way Ise started using Albion's and Ddraig's powers in the latest translated volume.

But he was using their powers at the same time, with some of the Wyverns using Ddraig's abilities and the others using Albion's. So I don't see him having to 'switch' between which powers he uses when he gets whatever he will gain from GR/Ophis.

Biohazardous
2014-07-16, 13:04
you know... just maybe all the gets from Ophis and Great Red new body is lifetime... since his last body lost alot of his lifetime because of JD and everytime he pushed a bit to far.

The MC dosnt needs a new bloody Power each Volume.....

No he don't need new powers each volume. Just because he pulls out Great Red And Ophis powers wont mean he gets one every volume. We just need something to happen at some point that causes them to come out. We can spend a few volumes with him perfecting what he has and getting closer to the girls.

saw2097
2014-07-16, 14:40
Speaking of constant power ups, am I the only person who thinks that the reason the author introduced the concept of sealed abilities was so that he could add a new ability whenever he thinks of a new one.

For instance it could be next arc and he comes up with at new ability and decides to introduce it, he needs an explanation he can just say one of the sealed abilities.

Not that I am saying that is a bad thing, it is useful if he comes up with new ideas and needs an explanation.

DarthSpiderDen
2014-07-16, 15:04
Couldn't Ise use Great Red/Ophis powers through the Wyverns he now has, just has he uses the Heavenly Dragon's powers through them?
I can't even imagine how that would be but it's a possibility.

Chichiryuushintei
2014-07-16, 15:06
Speaking of constant power ups, am I the only person who thinks that the reason the author introduced the concept of sealed abilities was so that he could add a new ability whenever he thinks of a new one.

For instance it could be next arc and he comes up with at new ability and decides to introduce it, he needs an explanation he can just say one of the sealed abilities.

Not that I am saying that is a bad thing, it is useful if he comes up with new ideas and needs an explanation.
That's still better than an unexplained asspull.

Chichiryuushintei
2014-07-16, 15:08
Couldn't Ise use Great Red/Ophis powers through the Wyverns he now has, just has he uses the Heavenly Dragon's powers through them?
I can't even imagine how that would be but it's a possibility.

I don't think so, since those Wyverns are part of the Sacred Gear, Issei's body doesn't really interfere in it.

Maybe if his other 4 pieces mutate he can do it?

Biohazardous
2014-07-16, 15:10
Couldn't Ise use Great Red/Ophis powers through the Wyverns he now has, just has he uses the Heavenly Dragon's powers through them?
I can't even imagine how that would be but it's a possibility.

He probably will once he unlocks them.

That's still better than an unexplained asspull.

I agree. When he thinks of something cool he can say its one of the abilities for them originally.

Gary29
2014-07-16, 16:10
Couldn't Ise use Great Red/Ophis powers through the Wyverns he now has, just has he uses the Heavenly Dragon's powers through them?
I can't even imagine how that would be but it's a possibility.

It's possible once he unlocks their power, but it really depends on what form will he unlock it in. We don't even have a clue as to what he will unlock from their powers.

Speaking of constant power ups, am I the only person who thinks that the reason the author introduced the concept of sealed abilities was so that he could add a new ability whenever he thinks of a new one.

For instance it could be next arc and he comes up with at new ability and decides to introduce it, he needs an explanation he can just say one of the sealed abilities.

Not that I am saying that is a bad thing, it is useful if he comes up with new ideas and needs an explanation.

To me I think Ishibumi already has a set idea as to what their sealed powers are, and won't use it as a way to bring in new powers other than those they've already planned out, since they always have the story planned out an arc in advance.

saw2097
2014-07-16, 21:05
It's possible once he unlocks their power, but it really depends on what form will he unlock it in. We don't even have a clue as to what he will unlock from their powers.



To me I think Ishibumi already has a set idea as to what their sealed powers are, and won't use it as a way to bring in new powers other than those they've already planned out, since they always have the story planned out an arc in advance.

Well yeah, I agree that he has probably already planned out the remaining power ups for this arc, but he is planning one more arc (Destruction God Shiva Arc) so if he comes up with any new ideas he can introduce them with this explanation.

B214
2014-07-16, 22:08
Actually i think there's a fifth arc after the current one. Ishibumi has expressed that he wants to do another set of individual volumes for the "main four" girls but can't do so in the current arc. So we may have at least 2 arcs left.

Biohazardous
2014-07-16, 22:14
Actually i think there's a fifth arc after the current one. Ishibumi has expressed that he wants to do another set of individual volumes for the "main four" girls but can't do so in the current arc. So we may have at least 2 arcs left.

More individual arcs would be awesome especially if they will show them getting closer to Ise too. Do Rias first and have her marry Ise maybe then the other girls start making him more too.

Seafoam
2014-07-16, 22:48
Well yeah, I agree that he has probably already planned out the remaining power ups for this arc, but he is planning one more arc (Destruction God Shiva Arc) so if he comes up with any new ideas he can introduce them with this explanation.

I think there will be more than one more, unless it's extremely long because I would be surprised if it ends before Ise graduates. Then again a timeskip couldn't be ruled out.

saw2097
2014-07-16, 22:54
I think there will be more than one more, unless it's extremely long because I would be surprised if it ends before Ise graduates. Then again a timeskip couldn't be ruled out.

Each arc is longer than the last so the current one will probably be at least 6 volumes (although considering the direction of the story it could go as far as 8 volumes, and the following will be at least 7 volumes.

That will probably cover it.

Actually i think there's a fifth arc after the current one. Ishibumi has expressed that he wants to do another set of individual volumes for the "main four" girls but can't do so in the current arc. So we may have at least 2 arcs left.

I think he was referring to the Shiva arc when he said that, in the Afterward for 14 he said that he had this arc and the Destruction God Shiva Arc left.

Seafoam
2014-07-16, 23:05
Each arc is longer than the last so the current one will probably be at least 6 volumes (although considering the direction of the story it could go as far as 8 volumes, and the following will be at least 7 volumes.

That will probably cover it.



I think he was referring to the Shiva arc when he said that, in the Afterward for 14 he said that he had this arc and the Destruction God Shiva Arc left.

I hope in the arc we get more on the greek mythology and norse side of things. A war between mythologies would be cool.

B214
2014-07-16, 23:43
I think he was referring to the Shiva arc when he said that, in the Afterward for 14 he said that he had this arc and the Destruction God Shiva Arc left.

No Ishibumi never said that.

●Something like an Evil Dragon smells like they were added in quite late! Maybe you might be thinking like that when you were reading it, but I just used the secret setting which I thought I wasn’t going to use. That’s because I didn’t expect it to continue this far…… But please be rest assured. Even if Shiva arc doesn’t become possible, fourth story arc will end properly like how it should. I have already decided on the last part of the fourth story arc. If I was able to write the Shiva arc, please think of it as the extra stage. At the end, it will depend on the support of all of you……so I will continue to write.

Also the Main 4 getting an individual volume again was something Ishibumi planned recently around late last year or early this year. I don't think it has anything to do with the Shiva arc.

saw2097
2014-07-16, 23:59
No Ishibumi never said that.



Also the Main 4 getting an individual volume again was something Ishibumi planned recently around late last year or early this year. I don't think it has anything to do with the Shiva arc.

Why wouldn't it, it would just be the volumes that make up the Shiva Arc, every volume focuses on a girl, so four of the Shiva Arc volumes will focus on the main four girls.

Reread the afterward for volume 14, he is being pretty clear that he intends to do this arc and a Shiva Arc and that will be it.

But please be rest assured. Even if Shiva arc doesn’t become possible, fourth story arc will end properly like how it should. I have already decided on the last part of the fourth story arc. If I was able to write the Shiva arc, please think of it as the extra stage. At the end, it will depend on the support of all of you……so I will continue to write.

This is the quote, even if the Shiva Arc doesn't become possible then the fourth arc will end it how it should.

This is the fourth arc, so the only conclusion is that the fifth arc will be the Shiva Arc.

G147
2014-07-17, 04:02
Ishibumi is known to be someone that is able to change his plots in last minute if he gets any new idea while writing, like recently in his blog, he hinted "12 condemn Devils" or sort. Yes 12, so they might end up being the main villain for the next arc.

kikix
2014-07-25, 10:04
For the Issei being the weakest possessor...that is possible.

I think that Issei on his own is around a mid-ranked devil in power. He NEVER fought without boosted gear, not even when Ddraig was asleep. He just couldn't use it as well. He still could use it loads better than when he was originally reincarnated, so saying that "we had a taste" of how strong Issei himself is...is wrong.

Issei is certainly the best user of boosted gear. He did achieve (in pure use) all that the previous possessors did...and a lot more. However, his stats aren't too high. His demonic power use is miserable (weak dragon shots being his only real combat-viable demonic power, except against women). His dragon heritage is shown in hightened physical prowess (higher strength, defense and stamina). He can also increase that further by dragonification (he could pierce magical barrier with pure strength). There's also the firebreathing ability. He's certainly not weak by any means (anymore) in the world. But I don't think he is high-rank worthy. We do not know whether the previous users weren't some amazing "monsters" that could fight on par with typical high-ranking devil without their boosted gear. So Issei may (but does not need to) be the weakest boosted gear user. It's just that his expertise in its use make up for that weakness making him one of the strongest sekiryuutei.


As for Issei's combat experience...I'm sorry but I think you are giving too much credit to him. He certainly have more combat experience than typical human, but I'm going to say that an average agressive deliquent have more combat experience than him. And even that aside, it's not an RPG game. Combat experience doesn't make one so much stronger over the course of a single fight. Rather, it just gives more situation that the person may analyze afterwards to help him make on-the-spot decisions more efficiently.
As far as his combat style goes, he's still a rookie. He cannot be called master in anything but his expertise in the use of boosted gear.

PS: Cardinal Crimson Queen is weaker that Juggernaut Drive, which is weaker than Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive. Its only advantage against juggernaught drive is the fact of having no detrimental effect on the users control and life force. Against empireo...just the stamina use being vastly lower.

evalot1997
2014-07-25, 10:20
But it provide more versatility and utility.

Gary29
2014-07-25, 10:32
PS: Cardinal Crimson Queen is weaker that Juggernaut Drive, which is weaker than Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive. Its only advantage against juggernaught drive is the fact of having no detrimental effect on the users control and life force. Against empireo...just the stamina use being vastly lower.

You know, I'm glad you're back. You always brought great conversations to the forums. :heh:

Anyway, CCQ is actually stronger than Juggernaut Drive. It's just that Ise hasn't unlocked the full power of it yet because he needs to master Triana first. At full-power, it goes EJOD > CCQ > JD.

saw2097
2014-07-25, 10:49
For the Issei being the weakest possessor...that is possible.

I think that Issei on his own is around a mid-ranked devil in power. He NEVER fought without boosted gear, not even when Ddraig was asleep. He just couldn't use it as well. He still could use it loads better than when he was originally reincarnated, so saying that "we had a taste" of how strong Issei himself is...is wrong.

Issei is certainly the best user of boosted gear. He did achieve (in pure use) all that the previous possessors did...and a lot more. However, his stats aren't too high. His demonic power use is miserable (weak dragon shots being his only real combat-viable demonic power, except against women). His dragon heritage is shown in hightened physical prowess (higher strength, defense and stamina). He can also increase that further by dragonification (he could pierce magical barrier with pure strength). There's also the firebreathing ability. He's certainly not weak by any means (anymore) in the world. But I don't think he is high-rank worthy. We do not know whether the previous users weren't some amazing "monsters" that could fight on par with typical high-ranking devil without their boosted gear. So Issei may (but does not need to) be the weakest boosted gear user. It's just that his expertise in its use make up for that weakness making him one of the strongest sekiryuutei.


As for Issei's combat experience...I'm sorry but I think you are giving too much credit to him. He certainly have more combat experience than typical human, but I'm going to say that an average agressive deliquent have more combat experience than him. And even that aside, it's not an RPG game. Combat experience doesn't make one so much stronger over the course of a single fight. Rather, it just gives more situation that the person may analyze afterwards to help him make on-the-spot decisions more efficiently.
As far as his combat style goes, he's still a rookie. He cannot be called master in anything but his expertise in the use of boosted gear.

PS: Cardinal Crimson Queen is weaker that Juggernaut Drive, which is weaker than Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive. Its only advantage against juggernaught drive is the fact of having no detrimental effect on the users control and life force. Against empireo...just the stamina use being vastly lower.

It was directly stated in Volume 9 that the path to using Trianna and True Queen Mode was to surpass the Juggarnaut Drive.

Edit: The reason he hasn't yet is because he hasn't stabilized True Queen Mode yet.

kikix
2014-07-25, 10:52
But it provide more versatility and utility.Juggernaut Drive provides automatic possibility of using Longinus Smasher, which is strictly superior in firepower to bishops (and queens) cannon. It also increases vastly speed (Diodora and even maou Beelzebub could hardly react to him) and defense, if I recall. In other words, everything Cardinal Crimson Queen provides is control over that power and security. In that respect, yes, it provides "utility". It can be reused safely. But it doesn't provide any peculiar versatility.

You know, I'm glad you're back. You always brought great conversations to the forums. :heh:Keh, thanks. Didn't think I'd see something like that being written.

Anyway, to the topic at hand.

Anyway, CCQ is actually stronger than Juggernaut Drive. It's just that Ise hasn't unlocked the full power of it yet because he needs to master Triana first. At full-power, it goes EJOD > CCQ > JD.I do not deny the option that Cardinal Crimson Queen may end up being stronger in the future. I'm sure that it can evolve further, too.
However, I do not think that as it is, it can compare to it at all. I recall both Azazel and Issei saying that it is weaker version of Juggernaut Drive, but I'm not sure on this. I can't seem to find it either, so it may just be my mistake.

That being said, the only Juggernaut Drive we saw from Issei is an incomplete form. Even in that, his power was far outranking a maou class opponent. Something that Issei with current Cardinal Crimson Queen can't really do, even after being considerably stronger on his own (more experience, more power-ups, better use of triana, stronger body and a lot of training).

I do think that Issei will make a new, better form. I just don't see that coming anytime soon. Juggernaut is said to unseal the power of the Heavenly Dragon. Can't imagine Triana and Cardinal Crimson Queen reaching that level.

Gary29
2014-07-25, 11:41
Juggernaut Drive provides automatic possibility of using Longinus Smasher, which is strictly superior in firepower to bishops (and queens) cannon. It also increases vastly speed (Diodora and even maou Beelzebub could hardly react to him) and defense, if I recall. In other words, everything Cardinal Crimson Queen provides is control over that power and security. In that respect, yes, it provides "utility". It can be reused safely. But it doesn't provide any peculiar versatility.

CCQ has the Wyverns and the ability to add Ascalon's Dragon-slayer aura into Ise's attacks. That's due to being able to control the power. Not to mention the Wyverns are extremely versatile in and of themselves.

I do not deny the option that Cardinal Crimson Queen may end up being stronger in the future. I'm sure that it can evolve further, too.
However, I do not think that as it is, it can compare to it at all. I recall both Azazel and Issei saying that it is weaker version of Juggernaut Drive, but I'm not sure on this. I can't seem to find it either, so it may just be my mistake.

That being said, the only Juggernaut Drive we saw from Issei is an incomplete form. Even in that, his power was far outranking a maou class opponent. Something that Issei with current Cardinal Crimson Queen can't really do, even after being considerably stronger on his own (more experience, more power-ups, better use of triana, stronger body and a lot of training).

I do think that Issei will make a new, better form. I just don't see that coming anytime soon. Juggernaut is said to unseal the power of the Heavenly Dragon. Can't imagine Triana and Cardinal Crimson Queen reaching that level.

Azazel and Ise stated that CCQ is stronger than Juggernaut Drive, but weaker than Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive. Maybe that's what you were thinking of?

Ise was able to easily defeat Shalba, the Maou you're referring to, in CCQ back in volume 11. That was maybe a week after he first obtained it? He was even bored from the battle because Shalba couldn't do anything impressive to give him a challenge. Now that Ise's unlocked Longinus Smasher and defeated Euclid, he's most likely at least at level of a complete JD.

Also, CCQ is stated to be Ddraig's original power. Not just unsealing the Heavenly Dragon's power. This allows Ise the capability to be stronger than Gods when he fully masters it, in other words reaching the same level as Ddraig and Albion originally were (the same level Crom Cruach is at now). Plus he has access to Ddraig and Albion's original abilities that the God of the Bible sealed.

kikix
2014-07-25, 12:38
CCQ has the Wyverns and the ability to add Ascalon's Dragon-slayer aura into Ise's attacks. That's due to being able to control the power. Not to mention the Wyverns are extremely versatile in and of themselves.They are versatile, but I don't think they have anything to do with Cardinal Crimson Queen. They are just boosted gears ability that he can use (maybe having a requirement of balance breaker). I dare say that if Issei would go berserk now, his berserk form would be able to use them as well.

Juggernaut Drive had also the ability to form dragon arms from the jewels on his armor and shoot from its mouth. Something that Issei cannot do now (at least...yet). At least according to the wiki...I won't be going back to check it now. Either way, that proves a sort of versatility of its own, one that Cardinal Crimson Queen doesn't have. He also was using "Dividing" power better...but I guess that by now, that advantage of Juggernaut Drive disappeared.



Azazel and Ise stated that CCQ is stronger than Juggernaut Drive, but weaker than Empireo Juggernaut Overdrive. Maybe that's what you were thinking of?Hm, maybe. My memory is really messy, so I often mix similar stuff up.

Ise was able to easily defeat Shalba, the Maou you're referring to, in CCQ back in volume 11. That was maybe a week after he first obtained it? He was even bored from the battle because Shalba couldn't do anything impressive to give him a challenge.At the time Issei fought Shalba in Cardinal Crimson Queen armor, he (Shalba) was a lot weeker. He lost Ophis's snake, but there is a chance that even though he healed up generally, there were still aftereffects of his battle with Issei in Juggernaut Drive. Those two battles cannot be compared straightforwardly, I'm afraid.

“Hey Siegfried. I certainly did get lots of assistance from you people. You have my gratitude. Thanks to that, my wounds have healed. ……Though I did lose Ophis’s snake and my powers are lower than before.”

That being said, I admit that Shalba Belzeebub was a pushoever of a maou...and that much I was incorrect at. Just proves how easy it is to exaggerate on the power when most of the characters that have "screen time" are ridiculous monsters, keh.

Now that Ise's unlocked Longinus Smasher and defeated Euclid, he's most likely at least at level of a complete JD.I do not think so. I'd like to point out that Juggernaut Drive right now would be much stronger than it was when he fought Shalba for the first time. Even Juggernaut Drive is limited by the basic abilities of the user. That's the biggest difference between Issei of the past and the one now. Both his Juggernaut Drive (which he couldn't use now even if he wanted, I believe) and Crimson Queen Promotion got a lot stronger thanks to his basic stats growing considerably.

Also, CCQ is stated to be Ddraig's original power. Not just unsealing the Heavenly Dragon's power.I don't recall this being said. Ddraig was always a red dragon, not crimson, as far as I remember. And Ddraig is the heavenly dragon. Maybe this time you mixed Cardinal Crimson Queen and Juggernaut Drive.


This allows Ise the capability to be stronger than Gods when he fully masters it, in other words reaching the same level as Ddraig and Albion originally were (the same level Crom Cruach is at now).This is the trait of all longinuses. With or without the promotion or the drive, if Issei would increase his strength properly and master the boosted gear, the boosting ability itself could bring him to and beyond a gods level. In comparing the two armors, this doesn't speak for either.

Plus he has access to Ddraig and Albion's original abilities that the God of the Bible sealed.Again, this is a trait of his mastery over the boosted gear itself. Remember that Juggernaut Drive did increase his ability to use the Divine Dividing power at the time. It could have the same result now.

What I am claiming is that assuming that Issei base abilities and level of boosted gear mastery is identical, Juggernaut Drive Issei will be stronger than Crimson Queen Promotion Issei. At least, currently. Isseis general growth would increase both the Juggernaut Drive and the Cardinal Crimson Queen in a similar way, so comparing the current Crimson Queen to the past Juggernaut Drive is not trully objective.


I do admit that the Crimson Queen Promotion may have a higher potential. That much I was wrong at. It is still far from it in my eyes, however. Especially since unlike Juggernaut Drive, Crimson Queen Promotion gets the additional boost of power from being "Queen", which is kind of a cheat...I wonder how strong Queen Juggernaut Drive would be...hmm...

Anyway, there's no doubt the current Issei is stronger than he was in Juggernaut Drive. I think he could defeat his past self even with Triana. But as I said, that doesn't speak much about the powers themselves.

Gary29
2014-07-25, 18:54
In regards to your earlier post, I just wanted to point out that Ise's Dragonification is a testament to his strength without using the Boosted Gear. The only thing he could use it for was defending. Of course, it does show that he's quite defenseless without it, but that's different from his strength.

They are versatile, but I don't think they have anything to do with Cardinal Crimson Queen. They are just boosted gears ability that he can use (maybe having a requirement of balance breaker). I dare say that if Issei would go berserk now, his berserk form would be able to use them as well.

Juggernaut Drive had also the ability to form dragon arms from the jewels on his armor and shoot from its mouth. Something that Issei cannot do now (at least...yet). At least according to the wiki...I won't be going back to check it now. Either way, that proves a sort of versatility of its own, one that Cardinal Crimson Queen doesn't have. He also was using "Dividing" power better...but I guess that by now, that advantage of Juggernaut Drive disappeared.


That's true, they only have a requirement of BB. But in Juggernaut Drive, which is basically a berserk state, would it really even think about adding Dragon-slayer aura to its attacks or using the Wyverns defensively? It's all about rampaging and destruction. CCQ gives Ise control over his power, which allows for techniques such as that to be developed and used, which in turn provides greater versatility over time.

At the time Issei fought Shalba in Cardinal Crimson Queen armor, he (Shalba) was a lot weeker. He lost Ophis's snake, but there is a chance that even though he healed up generally, there were still aftereffects of his battle with Issei in Juggernaut Drive. Those two battles cannot be compared straightforwardly, I'm afraid.

“Hey Siegfried. I certainly did get lots of assistance from you people. You have my gratitude. Thanks to that, my wounds have healed. ……Though I did lose Ophis’s snake and my powers are lower than before.”

That being said, I admit that Shalba Belzeebub was a pushoever of a maou...and that much I was incorrect at. Just proves how easy it is to exaggerate on the power when most of the characters that have "screen time" are ridiculous monsters, keh.

Hmm, I actually forgot he didn't have Ophis' snake at that time. Good point. But like you said he was a pushover regardless.

I do not think so. I'd like to point out that Juggernaut Drive right now would be much stronger than it was when he fought Shalba for the first time. Even Juggernaut Drive is limited by the basic abilities of the user. That's the biggest difference between Issei of the past and the one now. Both his Juggernaut Drive (which he couldn't use now even if he wanted, I believe) and Crimson Queen Promotion got a lot stronger thanks to his basic stats growing considerably.

I might not remember this, but when was it stated that JD was limited by the basic abilities of the user? It unseals the power of the Heavenly Dragons, which is too much for the average user to handle regardless, and trims their life force in exchange for going over the physical limits of the user. It works in a similar way that Saji was able to sacrifice his life force to go beyond his limits in volume 5 and use stronger demonic power than he actually had.

I don't recall this being said. Ddraig was always a red dragon, not crimson, as far as I remember. And Ddraig is the heavenly dragon. Maybe this time you mixed Cardinal Crimson Queen and Juggernaut Drive.

I took that statement from when Ise unlocked Triana in volume 9. It was stated that it was Ddraig's original power.


This is the trait of all longinuses. With or without the promotion or the drive, if Issei would increase his strength properly and master the boosted gear, the boosting ability itself could bring him to and beyond a gods level. In comparing the two armors, this doesn't speak for either.

Yes, but I meant that in regards to CCQ vs JD. JD isn't strong enough to go beyond Gods and achieve the same level of power that Ddraig and Albion originally had (if it did, why would it be such a big deal that Vali's EJOD is able to reach the Gods?). When CCQ is fully mastered Ise will be at that level.

Again, this is a trait of his mastery over the boosted gear itself. Remember that Juggernaut Drive did increase his ability to use the Divine Dividing power at the time. It could have the same result now.

Point taken.

What I am claiming is that assuming that Issei base abilities and level of boosted gear mastery is identical, Juggernaut Drive Issei will be stronger than Crimson Queen Promotion Issei. At least, currently. Isseis general growth would increase both the Juggernaut Drive and the Cardinal Crimson Queen in a similar way, so comparing the current Crimson Queen to the past Juggernaut Drive is not trully objective.

This goes back to whether or not JD is affected by the host's basic limits. Not to mention my above comment that JD cannot reach that beyond-God level power that CCQ can.

kusabireika
2014-07-25, 19:32
In regards to your earlier post, I just wanted to point out that Ise's Dragonification is a testament to his strength without using the Boosted Gear. The only thing he could use it for was defending. Of course, it does show that he's quite defenseless without it, but that's different from his strength.




That's true, they only have a requirement of BB. But in Juggernaut Drive, which is basically a berserk state, would it really even think about adding Dragon-slayer aura to its attacks or using the Wyverns defensively? It's all about rampaging and destruction. CCQ gives Ise control over his power, which allows for techniques such as that to be developed and used, which in turn provides greater versatility over time.



Hmm, I actually forgot he didn't have Ophis' snake at that time. Good point. But like you said he was a pushover regardless.



I might not remember this, but when was it stated that JD was limited by the basic abilities of the user? It unseals the power of the Heavenly Dragons, which is too much for the average user to handle regardless, and trims their life force in exchange for going over the physical limits of the user. It works in a similar way that Saji was able to sacrifice his life force to go beyond his limits in volume 5 and use stronger demonic power than he actually had.



I took that statement from when Ise unlocked Triana in volume 9. It was stated that it was Ddraig's original power.




Yes, but I meant that in regards to CCQ vs JD. JD isn't strong enough to go beyond Gods and achieve the same level of power that Ddraig and Albion originally had (if it did, why would it be such a big deal that Vali's EJOD is able to reach the Gods?). When CCQ is fully mastered Ise will be at that level.



Point taken.



This goes back to whether or not JD is affected by the host's basic limits. Not to mention my above comment that JD cannot reach that beyond-God level power that CCQ can.
^ unless that host is insane in someway and manage to attain like vali the extreme version of jd :heh: which is some par with ccq fully mastered :nod:

kikix
2014-07-25, 20:32
In regards to your earlier post, I just wanted to point out that Ise's Dragonification is a testament to his strength without using the Boosted Gear. The only thing he could use it for was defending. Of course, it does show that he's quite defenseless without it, but that's different from his strength.I know. Dragonification is Issei's species ability (since he's a humanoid dragon right now, not a human), so its obviously unrelated to sacred gear whatsoever.
I'm not sure what you talk about with that "defense only" part. About the dragonification or the boosted gear?! Either way, he could use both for offense. He used the dragonification for offense against the magicians that attacked the school (he couldn't use the boosted gear at that time at all, indeed). However, he learned how to use it without Ddraig by the time the big battle came.

“The truth is, not so good. He wakes up at times, but he sleeps most of the time. He’s sleeping right now, and he isn’t giving me any response. I can make the normal gauntlet appear, but I’m not in my best condition.”

Rather, I was finally able to have the gauntlet’s ability work just before. So I’m able to double my power and use Gift.

I said it earlier that he was heavily limited in the use of boosted gear, but he still could use it, and do so better than when he just awakened it. It just took a bit of practice. Unfortunately, the grunts he fought in school are hardly good enough to see how strong Issei on his own really is.

But in Juggernaut Drive, which is basically a berserk state, would it really even think about adding Dragon-slayer aura to its attacks or using the Wyverns defensively? It's all about rampaging and destruction.That depends, really. The fact that it is all about rampaging could actually make him more prone to use the wyverns to spread the damage further at a faster rate.
Yes, his berserk combat style was far more offensive (which is hard, with Issei being the one we're talking about), but that doesn't mean it wouldn't use the abilities that are available to him. He'd just focus on their offensive utility probably.

CCQ gives Ise control over his power, which allows for techniques such as that to be developed and used, which in turn provides greater versatility over time.I'd prefer to call it "utility", towards which I agreed, specifically for the reusability and control. Though I guess that this is a matter versatility of what we are talking about. Juggernaut Drive clearly isn't suited for stealth jobs or planned assault. Issei when under drive isn't very versatile. He's just aiming for destruction. But the armor itself is more versatile. It just can't really utilise that versatility while Issei is berserk.
But Issei have a tendency to go berserk even without Juggernaut Drive, as was shown in his battle against Sairaorgs peerage...was it his queen?! Well, the one that Sairaorg had to "recall" to save her from overwhelming damage. So this is a trait that kind of decreases Issei's versatility as a whole a notch.

I might not remember this, but when was it stated that JD was limited by the basic abilities of the user? It unseals the power of the Heavenly Dragons, which is too much for the average user to handle regardless, and trims their life force in exchange for going over the physical limits of the user.I do not think it was stated. I just made the best educated guess I could. If we'd assume that it does not scale, we'd end up with previous users of boosted gear possibly becoming weaker by going berserk. Hence, it needs to scale with the basic stats of the user.
And yes, the second part of the above quote is the possible explanation as to why a weak user will have weak Juggernaut Drive. The body simply cannot withstand more power without being honed better, hence the boosted gear limits the amount of released power to make the rampage even possible. I think that Juggernaut Drive is a "curse" that is made for the sake of fighting that destined rival. A desperate attempt at victory. It would be pointless if the user would die instantly upon activation.

I took that statement from when Ise unlocked Triana in volume 9. It was stated that it was Ddraig's original power.Hm...I guess I'll check it out later.

Yes, but I meant that in regards to CCQ vs JD. JD isn't strong enough to go beyond Gods and achieve the same level of power that Ddraig and Albion originally had (if it did, why would it be such a big deal that Vali's EJOD is able to reach the Gods?). When CCQ is fully mastered Ise will be at that level.Actually, Juggernaut Drives purpose is to obtain power that surpasses gods. That's what Sirzechs said in volume 6, New Life:

[That form allows you to attain the power which surpasses God and Maou temporally. –But it reduces the life of the possessor considerably. It’s better you don’t turn into that form anymore. If you die, lots of people will be sad. Even my sister….]

The reason why Empireo Juggernaut Drive can reach the level of gods is a problem exactly because it can be controled. Sun Wukong told Vali that it is not a threat to gods as Vali is now, because gods will simply endure the short time it can be active. But if Vali will master it and become able to maintain it for a long time, he will be a threat to gods. With his battle-freaked nature, that goes even further.

A juggernaut drive opponent is easy to avoid by the gods. All they'd need to do is escape the vicinity. Since it's berserk, it'll just destroy whatever is near it. There's no need to fight it. When the user can actually control himself, he can pick the time and place to start fighting gods, making escape difficult or impossible.

saw2097
2014-07-28, 10:35
I realized something, Penetrate was (sort of) foreshadowed early this arc, when Ise talked to Le Fay and Kuroka about magic, he came up with the idea of a spell that would allow him to see through clothes and now he has an ability that allows him to do that.

I wonder if we look at his earlier perversions we can come up with ideas on what his new abilities would be?

Probably not but it would still be fun.


Maybe an ability to open up dimensional holes to allow escape through walls when chased by an angry mob of girls.

That could be an ability he gets from the power from Great Red.

DocBernax2814
2014-07-28, 15:47
To be honest, I can't imagine what kind of power or abilities he will get from Great Red and Ophis.

This guy is so weird that everything can happen with him!!!

Who really knows how this will turn.

Biohazardous
2014-07-28, 16:08
To be honest, I can't imagine what kind of power or abilities he will get from Great Red and Ophis.

This guy is so weird that everything can happen with him!!!

Who really knows how this will turn.

It will be epic. :D

Gary29
2014-07-31, 11:40
Ah, I forgot to reply to this thread...

I know. Dragonification is Issei's species ability (since he's a humanoid dragon right now, not a human), so its obviously unrelated to sacred gear whatsoever.
I'm not sure what you talk about with that "defense only" part. About the dragonification or the boosted gear?! Either way, he could use both for offense. He used the dragonification for offense against the magicians that attacked the school (he couldn't use the boosted gear at that time at all, indeed). However, he learned how to use it without Ddraig by the time the big battle came.

I meant that when he couldn't use his Boosted Gear he could only use the gauntlet for defense against attacks. It would take more training for him to be able to use Dragonification as an effective defense against attacks, like Crom Cruach. But yes, by the time they all went up against the magicians, he learned how to use it to an extent without Ddraig.

That depends, really. The fact that it is all about rampaging could actually make him more prone to use the wyverns to spread the damage further at a faster rate.
Yes, his berserk combat style was far more offensive (which is hard, with Issei being the one we're talking about), but that doesn't mean it wouldn't use the abilities that are available to him. He'd just focus on their offensive utility probably.

Agreed, and Juggernaut Drive Ise did use [Divide] when he fought against Shalba the first time, but I still doubt it would use Ascalon's Dragon-slaying aura. Especially since it's only useful against Dragons, and Juggernaut Drive is more geared towards general destruction rather than intelligent tactics.

I'd prefer to call it "utility", towards which I agreed, specifically for the reusability and control. Though I guess that this is a matter versatility of what we are talking about. Juggernaut Drive clearly isn't suited for stealth jobs or planned assault. Issei when under drive isn't very versatile. He's just aiming for destruction. But the armor itself is more versatile. It just can't really utilise that versatility while Issei is berserk.
But Issei have a tendency to go berserk even without Juggernaut Drive, as was shown in his battle against Sairaorgs peerage...was it his queen?! Well, the one that Sairaorg had to "recall" to save her from overwhelming damage. So this is a trait that kind of decreases Issei's versatility as a whole a notch.

Is JD's armor really more versatile? The only thing it has is the dragon claws and blades, but I don't see a use for it other than destruction. That's part of JD's nature and doesn't really add to versatility.
Yeah, that was Sairaorg's Queen. It's part of his battle-style, he hates seeing his comrades injured and has a tendency to charge ahead in battle. But, he's learning to control that.

I do not think it was stated. I just made the best educated guess I could. If we'd assume that it does not scale, we'd end up with previous users of boosted gear possibly becoming weaker by going berserk. Hence, it needs to scale with the basic stats of the user.
And yes, the second part of the above quote is the possible explanation as to why a weak user will have weak Juggernaut Drive. The body simply cannot withstand more power without being honed better, hence the boosted gear limits the amount of released power to make the rampage even possible. I think that Juggernaut Drive is a "curse" that is made for the sake of fighting that destined rival. A desperate attempt at victory. It would be pointless if the user would die instantly upon activation.

How would previous possessors become weaker by going berserk? It trims their life, it doesn't affect their base stats.
While it's true that death upon activation would be pointless, if I remember correctly past possessors never stayed in that form for too long. Hence, if they can get in and out of JD when they want to, they can use up their minimum of 100 years (depending on what race they are) to fight their rival repeatedly. Like I said above, just because their body can't handle it doesn't mean it won't unseal all of the power it can (albeit not as much power as fully-mastered CCQ has). That's why their life force is stolen in exchange.

Actually, Juggernaut Drives purpose is to obtain power that surpasses gods. That's what Sirzechs said in volume 6, New Life:



The reason why Empireo Juggernaut Drive can reach the level of gods is a problem exactly because it can be controled. Sun Wukong told Vali that it is not a threat to gods as Vali is now, because gods will simply endure the short time it can be active. But if Vali will master it and become able to maintain it for a long time, he will be a threat to gods. With his battle-freaked nature, that goes even further.

A juggernaut drive opponent is easy to avoid by the gods. All they'd need to do is escape the vicinity. Since it's berserk, it'll just destroy whatever is near it. There's no need to fight it. When the user can actually control himself, he can pick the time and place to start fighting gods, making escape difficult or impossible.

Good points, I didn't think of it that way.

kikix
2014-07-31, 12:41
Agreed, and Juggernaut Drive Ise did use [Divide] when he fought against Shalba the first time, but I still doubt it would use Ascalon's Dragon-slaying aura.I think he would, if he'd fought dragons. Ascalon is not a "sword" per see. It is part, an ability of Boosted Gear.

I have no doubts that he would not use the sword itself. But his use of Divine Dividing and the way he fought shows that it is not a mindless offense. It is a, dare I say, "intelligent" destruction. I always thought it imprinted part of Ddraigs personality and battle-freak nature on the person, which this quote kind of supports:

Ise-kun heads towards Shalba, while walking like a ghoul. When he went underneath Shalba, Ddraig's voice comes out from Ise-kun's mouth! His sound doesn't have a slight emotion that it gives chills to my body.

[Made the wrong choice.]

Furthermore, Issei proved to fight with some thought instead of mindless destruction.

Shalba creates a light with his right arm and tries to release it towards Ise-kun. But from one of the jewels, a dragon arm covered in red scales appears, and stops Shalba's right arm.
Then from another jewel, a blade appears and cuts off Shalba's right arm! He didn't block it. He didn't counter it by attacking Shalba. He countered it by making it impossible for Shalba to throw it at him in the first place.
Then again, he actually used a blade here instead of bestially ripping the hand off or something along those lines. It is quite easy to believe that if it would be a dragon, then he would use Ascalons power to deal as much damage as available.

Then Sekiryuutei's wing…..glowed with light! It looks like that of Hakuryuukou's wing! The moment Shalba's pulse of light was about to hit…..

[Divide! Divide! Divide! Divide! Divide! Divide! Divide! Divide!]

That sound echoes, and the pulse of light halved…Throuought the fight, Issei shows a good deal of utilising his available abilities where they were effective. He is able to control his powers well. He's just oriented around destruction. He will use anything he can towards that goal. Precise use of Ascalon (or other weapons if he'd get his hands on them I bet) being probably no different.


Is JD's armor really more versatile? The only thing it has is the dragon claws and blades, but I don't see a use for it other than destruction.Forget about that berserker for a bit and then make a comparison. By getting a bunch of extra arms and blades, coupled with more versatile (stronger and tougher that can be used not only for moving, but also for offense or defense) wings, Issei can effectively fight against multiple enemies from various directions. He can both defend and attack at the same time (so in his fight against Sairaorg, for example, he could have still decreased damage to himself, while overpowering Sairaorg with double or even tripple the damage output). If we'd assume he could use demonic power freely (and be in a situation where that would be advantageous), he could create multiple dragon shots at once.

It may be just a difference of one ability, but compare it to Sigfried in his balance breaker that was able to utilise multiple swords at the same time making it far harder to fight against him.

Drives berserk limits it to straightforward fight (but not mindless, as I hope I shown above), but even then, the versatility of the armor grows considerably.
Just in a very limited amount of situations...but that's not the armors "fault", really.

How would previous possessors become weaker by going berserk? It trims their life, it doesn't affect their base stats.I said that under the assumption you made that juggernaut drive may not get stronger with the users base stats. If that is the case, there are few things we need to apply.
1) Isseis juggernaut would be no different than anyones else juggernaut.
2) Isseis juggernaut was incomplete, but Vali and his Empyreo Juggernaut Drive (which is I believe claimed to be stronger than basic Juggernaut Drive) is a good comparison for what a complete one would be.
3) Issei is not the strongest user of boosted gear (he's just the best user of boosted gear, or in other words, he is the most skilled at its use).
4) The strongest boosted gear users could compete against Vali, having a chance of victory (even if rather small, as Vali is claimed to be the strongest Hakuryuukou).
5) Last but not least, even an incomplete juggernaut drive is still good for this comparison.

Since taking the above into consideration current Vali would be able to overcome Issei in his juggernaut drive (easily when it would be an incomplete one), we are reaching a point where the past Sekiryuuteis, which would be capable of compeeting against Vali, would get no added strength from it. In fact, if we'll take into consideration the fact that both Divine Dividing and Boosted Gear have the same "mechanical" effects of their juggernaut drives, Vali right now would become weaker (he'd get weakened to the level of Isseis juggernaut drive).

Furthermore, if we'll extend this discussion into Vali himself, then it is clear. Juggernaut drive needs to be based on innate power of the user, since in the case of Vali, I truly believe (going by the times it was mentioned) that it would have been stronger than when Issei was using it (despite the incomplete status).

Basically, think about it like this. If juggernaut drive released all of its power regardless of the users stats, then it would be like getting an instant, fixed level of 100. But for characters that obtained level 110, that would be a decrease in levels.

It would also downgrade heavenly dragons power. Why?! Because juggernaut is said to unseal the heavenly dragons power, and frankly...I didn't see that sort of level from either Vali or Issei using their respective Empireo and basic drives. Each of the heavenly dragons was feared even by gods. Their juggernaut drives are at most (right now) a potential threat. Not something to avoid at all costs.

(...)if I remember correctly past possessors never stayed in that form for too long. Hence, if they can get in and out of JD when they want to, they can use up their minimum of 100 years (depending on what race they are) to fight their rival repeatedly.In fact, many of them weren't even able to exit it. The only reason why Issei was able to was because it was not complete, the curse was halved by Vali AND there was the strong emotional impact of the Switch Princess.
The only reason why Vali could control it was because he is a Lucifer, having enormous amount of demonic power which he could exchange for limited control. And even that was not absolute, as during his fight with Issei, Albion warned him that he would lose control over it at the time.


Under normal circumstances, Juggernaut drive is a one-shot ability that means the users death. They get burned down to nothing without a chance of regaining control. That's part of the reason why it is forbidden.

Tbolt
2014-07-31, 18:36
Sorry guys I was not going to butt into your discussion but kikix you said.

I think he would, if he'd fought dragons. Ascalon is not a "sword" per see. It is part, an ability of Boosted Gear.


Could you explain that since Michael gave Ascalon to Ise after he and Akeno toned it down allot for Ise to handle. Just curious.

kikix
2014-07-31, 19:44
Could you explain that since Michael gave Ascalon to Ise after he and Akeno toned it down allot for Ise to handle. Just curious.Phew...You quoted it out of context and I was worried I said something ridiculous there for a moment, until I remembered where that quote appeared, keh.

Ascalon was a sword. It still can be returned to the sword form. It probably will return to its actual, sword form on Isseis death. However, currently, it is fused into the boosted gear and works as just another of its abilities. That is why Issei can use its aura (the dragon-slayer aura of Ascalon) with his fists. He does not actually need to recall the sword or anything like that. He can just make the boosted gear have it.

In that respect, Ascalon is, in fact, just an ability that can be given sword shape for the time being.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-07-31, 19:59
Phew...You quoted it out of context and I was worried I said something ridiculous there for a moment, until I remembered where that quote appeared, keh.

Ascalon was a sword. It still can be returned to the sword form. It probably will return to its actual, sword form on Isseis death. However, currently, it is fused into the boosted gear and works as just another of its abilities. That is why Issei can use its aura (the dragon-slayer aura of Ascalon) with his fists. He does not actually need to recall the sword or anything like that. He can just make the boosted gear have it.

In that respect, Ascalon is, in fact, just an ability that can be given sword shape for the time being.

If I remember correctly Issei will likely not use ascalon but lend it out to Kiba Xenovia or amusingly Irina because they are swordsman and he simply put isnt

kikix
2014-07-31, 20:11
If I remember correctly Issei will likely not use ascalon but lend it out to Kiba Xenovia or amusingly Irina because they are swordsman and he simply put isntYeah. Except when he's fighting dragons. Then he's the one that keeps Ascalon in his gauntlet, while using its dragon-slayer traits with his fists.

Tbolt
2014-07-31, 20:15
Ok it was just worded a little strange is why I asked. Peace out.

DocBernax2814
2014-07-31, 20:33
Yeah. Except when he's fighting dragons. Then he's the one that keeps Ascalon in his gauntlet, while using its dragon-slayer traits with his fists.

Hmm.........so far Ascalon has been proven ineffective against reincarnated dragons. Why won't Issei use his boosts in Ascalon?

Can't the sword power be boosted?

Biohazardous
2014-07-31, 21:36
Hmm.........so far Ascalon has been proven ineffective against reincarnated dragons. Why won't Issei use his boosts in Ascalon?

Can't the sword power be boosted?

He is dragon too so the aura might affect him if boosted.

teejmo
2014-07-31, 22:09
Hmm.........so far Ascalon has been proven ineffective against reincarnated dragons. Why won't Issei use his boosts in Ascalon?

Can't the sword power be boosted?

I think the Holy Grail took most of the dragon-slayer weakness, but they still are fundamentally week to it. It may not be super-effective, but still more effective than not. Plus, Ascalon is one of the top holy swords in the world. It's got quite a bit of power in it even without the dragon-slaying capabilities.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-07-31, 22:22
He is dragon too so the aura might affect him if boosted.

I think you're thinking of Gram which is definitely a dragon slayer sword Ascalon is just a really powerful holy sword.

And actually he has used boosts on Ascalon before to clarify

teejmo
2014-08-01, 02:00
I think you're thinking of Gram which is definitely a dragon slayer sword Ascalon is just a really powerful holy sword.

And actually he has used boosts on Ascalon before to clarify

No, no, Ascalon is a dragon-slaying sword, made famous when St. George killed a dragon with it. But, well, I'll let Akeno explain (Volume 4): “There were final adjustments done on that sword in this shrine. Maou-sama, Azazel-sama, and Michael-sama’s camps’ ceremonies have been performed so even if a devil houses the power of the dragon, he can touch it.”

So, Ascalon alone can be safe for Ise, as well as whomever Ise allows to wield it (for instance Xenovia, who had trouble controlling Durandal but could control Ascalon; it still should have harmed her, seeing its a Holy Sword and she's a devil, but with Ise's approval she was able to wield it).

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-08-01, 04:15
No, no, Ascalon is a dragon-slaying sword, made famous when St. George killed a dragon with it. But, well, I'll let Akeno explain (Volume 4):

So, Ascalon alone can be safe for Ise, as well as whomever Ise allows to wield it (for instance Xenovia, who had trouble controlling Durandal but could control Ascalon; it still should have harmed her, seeing its a Holy Sword and she's a devil, but with Ise's approval she was able to wield it).

ha i forgot about that my bad but either way we'll see.

kikix
2014-08-01, 09:22
It's safe only to Issei, and only for fusion. You are mistaking "using" a sword and "fusing" a sword.

Issei could always wield Ascalon, even without its power being modified. Its dragon-slayer aura was uncomfortable to him...but that's that. The problem was with the fact that he was supposed to take that dragon-slayer and holy aura into himself, by fusing the sword with his gauntlet. That could be compared to being cut by it, which is no longer safe by a long shot.

Xenovia doesn't fuse with Ascalon. She just uses it, holding it by the handle and controling its holy aura. Remember that Xenovia specifically is a natural holy sword user (unlike Irina, which is artificial user). She can use Durandal and Excalibur, both of which are far more powerful. Compared to them, controling Ascalons holy aura is a piece of cake for her.

However, Xenovia, Kiba and most likely even Issei would feel the full power of the sword if they were cut with it.


Also, Ascalon is a rather weak holy sword, I believe. Its main point is its dragon-slaying, which is still inferior to some other holy and demonic swords. It was given to Issei because its combination of holy and dragon-slayer went well against Vali that was (and still is) Isseis "destined" rival, having weakness to both of those. As Issei VS Vali fight did show...neither of those traits is strong enough to cause Vali critical damage on their own, however.

DocBernax2814
2014-08-01, 16:34
Also, Ascalon is a rather weak holy sword, I believe. Its main point is its dragon-slaying, which is still inferior to some other holy and demonic swords. It was given to Issei because its combination of holy and dragon-slayer went well against Vali that was (and still is) Isseis "destined" rival, having weakness to both of those. As Issei VS Vali fight did show...neither of those traits is strong enough to cause Vali critical damage on their own, however.

As far as I know, Ascalon has only been used 2 times:

- By Kiba against Sigfried.
- By Issei against Grendel.

And only when used by Kiba showed some power.

Gary29
2014-08-01, 16:48
As far as I know, Ascalon has only been used 2 times:

- By Kiba against Sigfried.
- By Issei against Grendel.

And only when used by Kiba showed some power.

Ise used it in volume 4 in the fight against Vali, Xenovia used it in volume 6 against Shalba, and it's been used several other times when he harnessed the Dragon-slaying aura of Ascalon and incorporated it into his attacks.

DocBernax2814
2014-08-01, 19:35
Ise used it in volume 4 in the fight against Vali, Xenovia used it in volume 6 against Shalba, and it's been used several other times when he harnessed the Dragon-slaying aura of Ascalon and incorporated it into his attacks.

Oh, I didn't remember those.

RED IV
2014-08-04, 11:18
You know what would be crazy? If Issei absorbs the gem that Grendel is in

DocBernax2814
2014-08-04, 11:37
You know what would be crazy? If Issei absorbs the gem that Grendel is in

For what purpose?

Drive Ddraig insane with his rants?

Biohazardous
2014-08-04, 12:21
For what purpose?

Drive Ddraig insane with his rants?

Ddraig would be like Partner I'll be back in a few Im about to kill him.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-08-04, 13:59
issei absorbing Grendel is utterly pointless because he already has the power of a dragon. If anybody should get Grendel's power its Sairoag or Bikou since they dont have the power of a dragon behind them.

DocBernax2814
2014-08-04, 15:33
issei absorbing Grendel is utterly pointless because he already has the power of a dragon. If anybody should get Grendel's power its Sairoag or Bikou since they dont have the power of a dragon behind them.

That's a good point actually.

Who of the gears possessors would benefit the most by having Grendel in his gear.

And to that extend to what kind of sacred gear can he go.

Remember that his pure strength, always on the offensive, very sturdy and most important.....an utter jerk.

My candidate, Kiba and any of the sword related gears he has.

BTW, Sairoag already have a lion so no need for a dragon and Bikou as far as I know doesn't have a sacred gear.

kikix
2014-08-04, 16:32
Bikou can't have a sacred gear since he's a youkai. Only humans (or half humans) can be born with them, while youkai do not have the reincarnation method that devils (and now angels as well) possess. The only way for him to get one would be to steal one, at the cost of owners life (like Reynale). Sairaorg is a lone exception, in that the sacred gear he possesses did never pass onto another host, hence it actually chose its user.

The fact that Issei already have dragon inside his sacred gear hardly changes a thing. Having a dragon-based sacred gear grants a weakness to dragon-slayer weapons, so I'm going to say that it actually comes in pack with a drawback. Issei is already weak to them, so adding another one is "drawback free". That being said...is there any point to that?! I don't think so. Grendel doesn't have any special traits that could do anything. He's just physically strong dragon with increadible amount of tenacity. And physical traits aren't really passed down to the possessor of sacred gear, or Issei would be able to throw cars around...

Tbolt
2014-08-04, 19:56
Ise tells Ddraig , buddy here's a sharp stick poke to you hearts content. So for the next 10'000 years every time Ddraig goes by Grendel he stops and pokes him while giving an evil laugh.

kusabireika
2014-08-04, 21:57
Uhm poor ddraig I hope it doesn't happen :T_T:

Uhm just came back :heehee: I guess no one miss me :T_T:

On-topic: any updates on n0m@n blog I can't access it "sob in the corner T_T"

Tbolt
2014-08-04, 22:17
Welcome back, nothing yet on any updates, well about Ddraig you know how it gets when we start running out of things to discuss. We have run through the food topic, now Ddraig torturing Grendel what will it be next?

kusabireika
2014-08-04, 22:42
Welcome back, nothing yet on any updates, well about Ddraig you know how it gets when we start running out of things to discuss. We have run through the food topic, now Ddraig torturing Grendel what will it be next?

Ic thanks, can't update that tread coz my pc is broken much worse all my files are all there, it won't boot up :T_T: even the power is on sigh T_T

Uhm there is no trap?

Kidding aside uhm I wonder what is stronger penatrate or switching wyvern hmm :nod:

Biohazardous
2014-08-05, 05:27
Uhm poor ddraig I hope it doesn't happen :T_T:

Uhm just came back :heehee: I guess no one miss me :T_T:

On-topic: any updates on n0m@n blog I can't access it "sob in the corner T_T"

Welcome back. :) No updates yet dont worry you wont miss the next update. :)

Royalknightftw
2014-08-07, 14:00
Bikou can't have a sacred gear since he's a youkai. Only humans (or half humans) can be born with them, while youkai do not have the reincarnation method that devils (and now angels as well) possess. The only way for him to get one would be to steal one, at the cost of owners life (like Reynale). Sairaorg is a lone exception, in that the sacred gear he possesses did never pass onto another host, hence it actually chose its user.
There is another way actually, artificial SG remember ?? but then again if i recall in order to make one the user needs to make a pact first with the creature that wants to be put in the artificial SG. So yeah having a nut dragon like Grendel as an artificial SG is a big no

kikix
2014-08-07, 18:11
Yeah. That's why I ignored the artificial sacred gears. Azazel is no god. He can't seal powerful beings in them. He must have their cooperation like he did with Fafnir, giving him plenty of his collected treasures as a price.
There's no point in talking about Bikou making use of Grendel in a sacred gear if Bikou cannot get a sacred gear that Grendel could be placed into.

LowCholesterol
2014-08-07, 19:29
ah ah, both Bikou and Grendel is battle maniac

what if they having an agreement/cooperation about
"fight strong enemy, and you can use my power"

this is just a suggestion

DocBernax2814
2014-08-07, 19:58
ah ah, both Bikou and Grendel is battle maniac

what if they having an agreement/cooperation about
"fight strong enemy, and you can use my power"

this is just a suggestion

And why it has to be Bikou.

Isn't there anyone else who could use Grendel in his/her sacred gear?

kikix
2014-08-07, 20:54
Grendel wants to fight anyone and everyone. That aside, he is sealed completely. He cannot make a pact until he is unsealed, but when he will be, he will...you guessed it...attack whoever he wants to fight without having to make a pact.

Therefore...trying to make Grendel into artificial sacred gear...couldn't be explained without some bad storytelling. Unless there will be someone capable of making similar seals to the God, at which point they could help in making perfected artificial sacred gears, without that pact thing.
But then again...that'd look weird if it happened just like that. I guess it would require few years, and not even one passed since volume 1, I believe...

ShiryuMask
2014-08-08, 02:55
I think the thing we need to ask ourself is: Who would be crazy enough to wanting Grandel as his/her patner?

That being said like kikix said, Grandel is sealed completely which mean, I don't think we will see him again.

DocBernax2814
2014-08-08, 11:43
In the Q&A Thread, someone asked if there has being anyone who had had both the Boosted Gear and the Divine Dividing.

That's ridiculous, first of all they are polar opposites so the sheer amount of pressure whould be enough to kill a human being.

Second, before killing the host, they would drive him/her crazy by the constant in-fighting of the dragons.

Is simply not possible for one individual to have both sacred gears.

kikix
2014-08-08, 17:56
Well, they may be polar opposites, but I'm not sure it would be much of a problem if someone had actual sacred gears. Unlike Issei that combined both into one. Compare it to Kiba that can use both a holy and a demonic sword (don't mix with holy-demonic sword, but two swords, each in one hand) without them "biting" at each other. Also, remember that sacred gears limit themselves to the user. Only if the user actively tries to force themselves beyond their own limits do they posses a real threat (like trying to force a balance breaker out, or by forcefully fusing with Vritra by Saji).

There are also some seriously resilient mentally people that wouldn't get driven crazy.

That being said, I think that the technology to move sacred gears from person to person isn't particularly new, while a person probably cannot be born with more than one sacred gear. The second would need to be placed inside one of them. That'd be kind of hard seeing as all the previous users seemed to be seriously fricken powerhouses in their own right. Not to mention, the fact that longinuses move to a new host the moment their previous one dies. Not much time to seal them in order to place them into another person (if possible at all).

But there is another reason to believe that there was no such person. No one ever mentioned that. I'd believe that would be mentioned a bunch of times, on the occassion of fusing the Divine Dividing jewel into Boosted Gear in particular. So no, whatever the reason, there never was a user of both (before Issei, in a way).

Chichiryuushintei
2014-08-08, 20:25
In the Q&A Thread, someone asked if there has being anyone who had had both the Boosted Gear and the Divine Dividing.

That's ridiculous, first of all they are polar opposites so the sheer amount of pressure whould be enough to kill a human being.

Second, before killing the host, they would drive him/her crazy by the constant in-fighting of the dragons.

Is simply not possible for one individual to have both sacred gears.
If there was such a person he/she would be killed would be killed before he/she awakened, Ise was being watched even though he was weak even by human standards.

Chris38
2014-08-08, 23:45
While, it's not possible for a single person to obtain Divine Dividing and Boosted Gear at the same time in a natural way - Ise has shown in the novel that it's possible to do something like that artificially - assuming that the user who does such a reckless move has enough determination to pull off something like what Ise did.

Of course it also takes some effort to be able to use those powers without any risk to the user's lifespan ... and it's unknown to what extent a user of "Boosted Gear' or 'Divine Dividing' can use the other Sacred Gear's power, after artificially obtaining it ... but considering what Ise is capable of with his 'modified' Boosted Gear, in the recent volumes, I would say that the result of such 'fusion' is pretty good...

ShiryuMask
2014-08-09, 03:44
Wait, I thought that one of the reason to why Ise was able to do what he did that time(with DD) was thanks his affinity with dragon.(and of course his determination).

Honestly speaking, I don't think that someone else would be able to do what Ise did. One of the reason to why he can use Ablion power like this is because the two dragons are in peace now.

And I doubt that something like this would happen in the past(knowing Ddraig and Albion).

kikix
2014-08-09, 14:56
Actually, the reason why Issei didn't die is death of God. Being the meddlesome guy that the Christian God is, he forcefully separated opposites without letting them mix. It's what was told when Kiba obtained holy-demonic sword and it was mentioned (by Issei) that it could be the factor. Along with the bugs that are a reasult of premature demise of the God that couldn't fix them.

[Impossible! Such a thing is impossible!]

Albion let out an astonished voice.

“No, it’s only a little, but it’s possible. My friend fused together holy and demonic, and produced things like holy demonic swords. It seems it was possible to achieve it because balance has collapsed from the non-existence of God. Well, if I borrow the words of the leader guys, it is a state where there are things like system errors or program bugs? I just utilised it a little.”

[…So you mean you nudged the imperfections of the “Sacred Gear program” and achieved this? No, but such a thing is…Even if you think of that, to actually do it is just foolish. No one knows what will happen with the fusion of opposing powers. When that is something concerning dragons, you might die, you know? No, it would be natural for you to die.]

Issei being the crazy guy he is just utilized the small chance of doing something. Statistically...I guess that the only reason he survived is...him being the protagonist, really.


Issei have high affinity with dragons due to his straightforward personality, but that only lets him use the Boosted Gear (and Divine Dividing) better. I don't think it'd stop him from self-destructing when two opposite forces would collide inside him. Then his drawing of dragons is a simple result of him being a host to Ddraig, one of the most powerful dragons. Dragons are said to draw both the opposide sex...as well as strong people. And other dragons are strong as well.

Other than that...Issei is just one damn lucky guy.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-08-09, 17:17
He is a damn lucky guy but really its kinda funny if u think about it. He's done 3 or 4 things already that are almost too ridiculous given the DxD world. He fused a piece of DD into his SG. He's convinced the leader of Heaven to allow 2 devils to pray without hurting themselves. Thanks to issei in one household we have most of the big groups in the DxD universe. Devils Angels. Fallen angels. Nekomata (koneko's race) the Phenex and magicians plus vampires and the Norse gods.
his worst enemy has two soldiers who come into his house as they please. His current girlfriend is the sister of a Maou. He's turned one of the most powerful beings in the DxD universe into a house pet. he's turned a grim reaper into a fangirl and honestly Issei pretty much controls the DxD universe and this is all within a year.

Gary29
2014-08-09, 18:51
Well, they may be polar opposites, but I'm not sure it would be much of a problem if someone had actual sacred gears. Unlike Issei that combined both into one. Compare it to Kiba that can use both a holy and a demonic sword (don't mix with holy-demonic sword, but two swords, each in one hand) without them "biting" at each other. Also, remember that sacred gears limit themselves to the user. Only if the user actively tries to force themselves beyond their own limits do they posses a real threat (like trying to force a balance breaker out, or by forcefully fusing with Vritra by Saji).

Somewhat related to this discussion: Can Kiba actually create a Demonic Sword and a Holy Sword at the same time? I'm not talking about the swords he got from Siegfried, I'm referring to his original Sacred Gear's ability.

He is a damn lucky guy but really its kinda funny if u think about it. He's done 3 or 4 things already that are almost too ridiculous given the DxD world. He fused a piece of DD into his SG. He's convinced the leader of Heaven to allow 2 devils to pray without hurting themselves. Thanks to issei in one household we have most of the big groups in the DxD universe. Devils Angels. Fallen angels. Nekomata (koneko's race) the Phenex and magicians plus vampires and the Norse gods.
his worst enemy has two soldiers who come into his house as they please. His current girlfriend is the sister of a Maou. He's turned one of the most powerful beings in the DxD universe into a house pet. he's turned a grim reaper into a fangirl and honestly Issei pretty much controls the DxD universe and this is all within a year.

Convincing Michael to allow Xenovia and Asia to pray wasn't ridiculous considering they had just signed a Peace Pact. And Vali's not actually his enemy anymore, but I digress. Ise's life sure is crazy.

Tbolt
2014-08-09, 21:16
@Gary29,

Can Kiba actually create a Demonic Sword and a Holy Sword at the same time?

No Kiba cannot create a holy sword, the holy aura that went into the making of the holy-demonic sword was the souls of his friends.

saw2097
2014-08-09, 22:29
He is a damn lucky guy but really its kinda funny if u think about it. He's done 3 or 4 things already that are almost too ridiculous given the DxD world. He fused a piece of DD into his SG. He's convinced the leader of Heaven to allow 2 devils to pray without hurting themselves. Thanks to issei in one household we have most of the big groups in the DxD universe. Devils Angels. Fallen angels. Nekomata (koneko's race) the Phenex and magicians plus vampires and the Norse gods.
his worst enemy has two soldiers who come into his house as they please. His current girlfriend is the sister of a Maou. He's turned one of the most powerful beings in the DxD universe into a house pet. he's turned a grim reaper into a fangirl and honestly Issei pretty much controls the DxD universe and this is all within a year.

The best part is that Ise still doesn't realize how extraordinary his actions are, he sits there gaping at others and going on about how amazing other people are while belittling himself not realizing that he is a legend in the making.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-08-10, 05:29
Convincing Michael to allow Xenovia and Asia to pray wasn't ridiculous considering they had just signed a Peace Pact. And Vali's not actually his enemy anymore, but I digress. Ise's life sure is crazy.

The michael thing is ridiculous considering the situations of Asia and Xenovia (both girls basically became devils after they were abandoned by the Church and yet they still prayed).

Thats a request that not many people could do and the best part about it is that issei doesnt think of it as the big deal it is.

Biohazardous
2014-08-10, 07:11
The best part is that Ise still doesn't realize how extraordinary his actions are, he sits there gaping at others and going on about how amazing other people are while belittling himself not realizing that he is a legend in the making.

Thats part of his charm for now. We just need Momo to help him out with his harem and things will change for the better. He will get stronger and wiser when he realizes all those girls are his. He wont let them down and will work even harder to insure it wont happen. *drools like Jibril thinking about how awsome it will be.

kikix
2014-08-10, 07:57
Somewhat related to this discussion: Can Kiba actually create a Demonic Sword and a Holy Sword at the same time? I'm not talking about the swords he got from Siegfried, I'm referring to his original Sacred Gear's ability.His original ability can only create demonic swords, with the exception of his holy-demonic Sword of Betrayer balance breaker.

But in volume 10 he did show possession of second sacred gear (beats me how he go it...) which is the holy sword equivalent of his first one that Jeanne also had. This is the sacred gear for which balance breaker creates those drag troopers. So yeah, Kiba can create demonic, holy and holy-demonic sword, all the while having two balance breakers.

This is based on wiki, so no quotes.

@Gary29, No Kiba cannot create a holy sword, the holy aura that went into the making of the holy-demonic sword was the souls of his friends.Sacred gears are self-sufficient. That's why Issei could actually learn to breath fire like a dragon even when he was a human (ekhem...devil...). It's just a matter of whether he have a holy-sword making sacred gear (which he does, since volume 10 at least) or not.

DragoMuseveni
2014-08-15, 14:21
After rereading the novels , do you believe that Vali will unlock a power that is oposite ise`s penetrate ability. Something like a canceler ?

saw2097
2014-08-15, 15:40
After rereading the novels , do you believe that Vali will unlock a power that is oposite ise`s penetrate ability. Something like a canceler ?

The opposite of Penetrate was Reflect, the ultimate spear and ultimate shield.

kusabireika
2014-08-17, 10:02
uhm.....Tbolt and imperial here

Devils also have the ability to cast magic spells, not limited to those in which their family specializes. Examples being the ability to bind and later summon a Familiar, as well as Issei's Dress Break and Bilingual spells. The most common usage would likely be the magic circle used by Devils for travel, and especially to make contracts.

As revealed in Volume 14, to use demonic powers, a Devil must first acquire the power of imagination and the power to create, as well as have a good sense.

From hs dxd wikia



uhm.....

Tbolt
2014-08-17, 10:35
Well what Demonic power Ise has he was able to use it because he has a highly refined imagination (due to being the super pervert) which allowed him to develop dress break and bilingual. In that case if Ise wasn't a pervert he would never have been able to develop that ability.

evalot1997
2014-08-17, 11:04
We all know that demonic magic is channeled through your thoughts and imagination which basically means your mental capabilities.which is different from magicians calculation and knowledge based magic formula.
About issei,though he do have great imaginating capability it's however usually related to eroctism which explains dress break and bilingual.so what Im saying is his demonic magic capability is limited and thereby inferior because of the fact that his magical expertise is bounded by and concentrated towards.....females.
:rolleyes:

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-08-17, 12:05
uhm.....Tbolt and imperial here



uhm.....

Related to the quote to be frank i wouldnt look too much into a wiki as proof


Well what Demonic power Ise has he was able to use it because he has a highly refined imagination (due to being the super pervert) which allowed him to develop dress break and bilingual. In that case if Ise wasn't a pervert he would never have been able to develop that ability.

We cant deny he's a pervert the problem is my point is that power is channeled through his sacred gear not because of his devil ability's

Biohazardous
2014-08-17, 12:12
All hail perverts lol.

Gary29
2014-08-17, 16:19
We cant deny he's a pervert the problem is my point is that power is channeled through his sacred gear not because of his devil ability's

Actually, his demonic power is boosted by his Boosted Gear. But it's still his inherent demonic power he gained as a Devil.

We all know that demonic magic is channeled through your thoughts and imagination which basically means your mental capabilities.which is different from magicians calculation and knowledge based magic formula.
About issei,though he do have great imaginating capability it's however usually related to eroctism which explains dress break and bilingual.so what Im saying is his demonic magic capability is limited and thereby inferior because of the fact that his magical expertise is bounded by and concentrated towards.....females.
:rolleyes:

I wouldn't say that at all. It's only that he's only tried to use his demonic power to develop erotic abilities. If he was determined enough he would definitely be able to do other things with it. However, he doesn't have a lot of demonic power to begin with, so it's better he focuses on learning magic instead, which involves calculations that he could eventually learn to use.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2014-08-17, 17:17
Actually, his demonic power is boosted by his Boosted Gear. But it's still his inherent demonic power he gained as a Devil.

hm whatever it doesnt really matter how he does it just that he does it

evalot1997
2014-08-17, 20:45
Actually, his demonic power is boosted by his Boosted Gear. But it's still his inherent demonic power he gained as a Devil.



I wouldn't say that at all. It's only that he's only tried to use his demonic power to develop erotic abilities. If he was determined enough he would definitely be able to do other things with it. However, he doesn't have a lot of demonic power to begin with, so it's better he focuses on learning magic instead, which involves calculations that he could eventually learn to use.
Which is the reason for Le Fay to enter the fray.
And it's not that he did not try hard enough, it's the fact that he's not very bright as pointed out multiple times already.

Gary29
2014-08-18, 08:23
Which is the reason for Le Fay to enter the fray.
And it's not that he did not try hard enough, it's the fact that he's not very bright as pointed out multiple times already.

Indeed. I'm actually quite interested in seeing how much magic he's going to be learning.
But intelligence is only needed for magic; imagination and the power to create are what fuels demonic power. Ise wasn't that bright in volume 2 when he developed Dress Break. He just didn't have any interest in creating a non-erotic ability.

kusabireika
2014-08-18, 08:27
Indeed. I'm actually quite interested in seeing how much magic he's going to be learning.
But intelligence is only needed for magic; imagination and the power to create are what fuels demonic power. Ise wasn't that bright in volume 2 when he developed Dress Break. He just didn't have any interest in creating a non-erotic ability.

I guess you can say issei is good only in field strategy than knowledge on magic ?

evalot1997
2014-08-18, 08:47
Indeed. I'm actually quite interested in seeing how much magic he's going to be learning.
But intelligence is only needed for magic; imagination and the power to create are what fuels demonic power. Ise wasn't that bright in volume 2 when he developed Dress Break. He just didn't have any interest in creating a non-erotic ability.

Well issei is the master of eroctism so it is only appropriate for him to create magical erotic wonders. :heh:

Gary29
2014-08-18, 08:57
Well issei is the master of eroctism so it is only appropriate for him to create magical erotic wonders. :heh:

Like [Penetrate]! Who knew one of the original abilities of a Heavenly Dragon could also double as a way to see through women's clothing! :heh:

I guess you can say issei is good only in field strategy than knowledge on magic ?

I wouldn't say that. He's not overly talented with demonic power, but we have yet to see what he can do with magic.