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relentlessflame
2014-04-02, 18:41
This is a thread to discuss The Rating Game in High School DxD Light Novel.

As this is a source material thread, it is expected that you should be reasonably caught up to the latest source material when participating. However, if spoiling major plot points that others may not yet have read, please be considerate and use properly-labelled spoiler tags that indicate to the reader whether it's safe to open the tag. Spoiler tags with no label are not allowed!
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If you want to discuss a related topic, please feel free to request another thread be created about that topic.

itisp
2014-04-02, 21:15
So what type of Rating Game would you like to see.

I want to see one that is based on an actual chess game. The kings take turns commanding their pieces to move, and should two pieces end up on the same square, they battle to see who the winner of that square is.

G147
2014-04-02, 22:22
That could only work if both side has the same amount of pieces which is almost impossible since many have different number of servants.

itisp
2014-04-02, 22:56
True, but stronger servants should be able to compensate for numbers. Unlike the board game where you win a square by kicking the previous piece out, it is a battle for each square.

For example, Issei as the only pawn should be able to take out several pieces as he journeys across the board, even if they come after him (and they would, they wouldn't want him to get to the end of the game field and achieve promotion, cause then he could move about like a queen for example).

kusabireika
2014-04-02, 23:01
^ Kiba is now over power servant who has 2 sacred gear balance breakers & and 5 Demonic Swords for 1 normal knight piece :heh:

jopjopjop
2014-04-02, 23:23
That is almost the same as the Dice Figure rule.

sunsengnim
2014-04-03, 00:13
That is almost the same as the Dice Figure rule.

that's the same thing i thought as well + this kind of chess game would be sadly boring since everyone would always just send their strongest pieces forward.

since how itisp explains it it would just be a battle of who has the strongest peerage and it would have nothing to do with chess except for the movement of the pieces wich would just be silly.

it's actually really hard to come up with interesting rules for a rating game...

lived_1714
2014-04-03, 00:16
Do we ever have huge Rating Game? Like 1 leader controlling 8 Kings?

G147
2014-04-03, 03:16
Do we ever have huge Rating Game? Like 1 leader controlling 8 Kings?

No, we don't have such a Rating Game.

Lord of Agarest
2014-04-03, 17:36
So what type of Rating Game would you like to see.

I want to see one that is based on an actual chess game. The kings take turns commanding their pieces to move, and should two pieces end up on the same square, they battle to see who the winner of that square is.

I thinked the same:D

that's the same thing i thought as well + this kind of chess game would be sadly boring since everyone would always just send their strongest pieces forward.

since how itisp explains it it would just be a battle of who has the strongest peerage and it would have nothing to do with chess except for the movement of the pieces wich would just be silly.

it's actually really hard to come up with interesting rules for a rating game...

I don't think so.
You should use strategy: for example for to stop Ise it could be enought to move in front of him another Pawn.
During the battle with Rias's peerage, Sona's peerage used strategies against a superior (in stregth) enemy and almost win

"Dice figure rule" is more based on luck, and the King usually exit for last in their team
"Chess rule" can last short, if 1 king cannot defend himself

jopjopjop
2014-04-03, 18:24
I don't think so.
You should use strategy: for example for to stop Ise it could be enought to move in front of him another Pawn.
During the battle with Rias's peerage, Sona's peerage used strategies against a superior (in stregth) enemy and almost win

"Dice figure rule" is more based on luck, and the King usually exit for last in their team
"Chess rule" can last short, if 1 king cannot defend himself

Then that's just the same as playing a normal chess.

And if strategy is what you want, there's already the normal type of Rating game and the Scramble Flag rule.

G147
2014-04-04, 18:51
Just a random idea, how about a battle royal style Rating Game like Rias vs Sona vs Sairaorg vs Seekvaira.

NeutralZero
2014-04-04, 19:04
since the rating game is based on chess,
then it is possible...
after all there's a 3 way and four way chess...
but with those power house team
going to expect the game to have some sort of power or move restriction that will certainly give Sona's team some advantage...

assmdxd
2014-05-14, 09:24
hii
didn't you agree with me that rias team become too strong to play rating game now

Chris38
2014-05-14, 09:36
^ Nope, since there are always restrictions that can be put on a team in a Rating Game, that prevents them from using their full power.

Not to mention, most of their new moves / powers are OHKO's that surpass the retiring system of the Rating Game, which they can't use in a Rating Game.

Basically ... as it has been stated in the novels (if I remember it correctly) an actual live combat battlefield is quite different compared to a Rating Game.

aw454wtr
2014-05-14, 09:45
^ Nope, since there are always restrictions that can be put on a team in a Rating Game, that prevents them from using their full power.

Not to mention, most of their new moves / powers are OHKO's that surpass the retiring system of the Rating Game, which they can't use in a Rating Game.

Basically ... as it has been stated in the novels (if I remember it correctly) an actual live combat battlefield is quite different compared to a Rating Game.

This is the reason why rating game fights (except for saiaorg) are always going to unfair to the gremory group,

prehaps the devils can improve the retirement systems to the point where even getting hit with longinus smasher can be survivable thus negating the need for restrictions alltogether, though that will screw over sona's group badly

jopjopjop
2014-05-14, 10:11
The Gremory team can just scare the living shit out of the opponents.

Give them the choice to retire themselves or die. :heh:

NeutralZero
2014-05-14, 10:47
What the Ggremory group really needs is a sound tactic that rely not just on power but with techniques and wits.
It is only natural to put a handicap on them in it.
Other wise it is like playing with an opponent whose pieces are all queen.
And rather than just OHKO to the enemies
it'll be an OTK esp with Rias or Isse.
And even if they are just a team of muscle/power, if they can use it in a creative way, they can circumvent the limitations given to them.

XFire
2014-05-14, 11:32
Something alot of people seem to ignore is that the reason the Gremory team is "handicapped" is to simulate actual battle conditions. In vol 7 and 9, they fought under more or less the same conditions as the Sitri match, and Ise even mentioned that the match was good experience for those situations.

jopjopjop
2014-05-14, 11:38
Vol. 7 & 9? How can that be the same condition as the Sitri match? The power of the Gremory team isn't held back to minimal at those battles.

Gary29
2014-05-14, 12:05
It's definitely not to simulate actual battle conditions, it's to improve their tactics alongside giving the other team a chance. It's been clearly stated that Rating Games and actual battles are completely different.

aw454wtr
2014-05-14, 12:54
Though in the real battles we've seen so far, tactics do not seem to matter much, note how the tactically superior sitri team got easily crushed by heracles,jeanne and georg in vol 12, while the power of the gremory team eventually defeated the hero faction

It would seem to be more efficient to powerup to the level where you can crush the opponents without relying on tactics in DxD fights

jopjopjop
2014-05-14, 13:01
To be fair with the Sitri team, Heracles and the others have hostages so the Sitri team can't do much against them.

But ofc, tactics without sufficient power backing that up won't get you too far.

aw454wtr
2014-05-14, 13:29
To be fair with the Sitri team, Heracles and the others have hostages so the Sitri team can't do much against them.

But ofc, tactics without sufficient power backing that up won't get you too far.

True, we still have not seen an intelligent battle so to speak, a real life fight in the DxD universe that was won through tactics rather than Ise getting a powerup from nowhere to pwn the volume's antagonist

XFire
2014-05-14, 13:33
Vol. 7 & 9? How can that be the same condition as the Sitri match? The power of the Gremory team isn't held back to minimal at those battles.

It's definitely not to simulate actual battle conditions, it's to improve their tactics alongside giving the other team a chance. It's been clearly stated that Rating Games and actual battles are completely different.

During volume seven they fight terrorists inside of an abandoned warehouse, where they have to hold back their attack power so they don't destroy the warehouse or the city around them.

In volume nine, excluding the little fight between Ise and Ross, he has to contain his power while fighting the Yokai and the shadow thug.

Both times mention the Sitri match as being actual experience for those kinds of battles.

And that Rating Game was specifically mentioned to emulate battles where collateral damage should be kept to a minimum.

assmdxd
2014-05-17, 05:32
^ Nope, since there are always restrictions that can be put on a team in a Rating Game, that prevents them from using their full power.

Not to mention, most of their new moves / powers are OHKO's that surpass the retiring system of the Rating Game, which they can't use in a Rating Game.

Basically ... as it has been stated in the novels (if I remember it correctly) an actual live combat battlefield is quite different compared to a Rating Game.

i understand your point
like what happen in the rating game against sona

sunsengnim
2014-05-26, 01:03
how about a rating game with like a dozen teams?
no rules and the time limit is 24 hours every team has a 30min limit between encounters wich means you can't hang back and have to fight at least once every 30min or it's an insta loss to prevent people from staying back and laming it out.
also every team gets 3-4 hours of break time they can distribute however they like obviously it cannot be used when in a fight.

don't really know wich teams should go in nor if any rewards should be given nor if any more rules would make it more interesting any inputs to expand on this?

Chris38
2014-05-26, 01:35
how about a rating game with like a dozen teams?
no rules and the time limit is 24 hours every team has a 30min limit between encounters wich means you can't hang back and have to fight at least once every 30min or it's an insta loss to prevent people from staying back and laming it out.
also every team gets 3-4 hours of break time they can distribute however they like obviously it cannot be used when in a fight.

don't really know wich teams should go in nor if any rewards should be given nor if any more rules would make it more interesting any inputs to expand on this?

Yeah .. something like that would definitely be more interesting.

Although even using a system like that ... the Gremory team would still need to be restricted in some way, since they posses moves that surpass the Rating Game's retaining system as well as Gasper's Balor powers, which could be considered as an ultimate win condition, even under the game format that you mentioned. :)

kusabireika
2014-05-26, 02:27
Yeah .. something like that would definitely be more interesting.

Although even using a system like that ... the Gremory team would still need to be restricted in some way, since they posses moves that surpass the Rating Game's retaining system as well as Gasper's Balor powers, which could be considered as an ultimate win condition, even under the game format that you mentioned. :)

Or dividing wyvern fairly of issei :heh:

aw454wtr
2014-05-26, 06:10
Yeah .. something like that would definitely be more interesting.

Although even using a system like that ... the Gremory team would still need to be restricted in some way, since they posses moves that surpass the Rating Game's retaining system as well as Gasper's Balor powers, which could be considered as an ultimate win condition, even under the game format that you mentioned. :)

this is the issue with rating games, restrictions put on one team makes the fights very unfair to gremory and bael groups, and when they inevitability win, makes their opponents look even weaker by comparison,

would high class devils with high pride take it well knowing they lost to a team that had 90% of their powers restricted? i think they'd rather lose to a full power gremory/bael improving the retiring system so that it can save competitors from dying to super attacks would be the better route for rating games

Chris38
2014-05-26, 07:06
this is the issue with rating games, restrictions put on one team makes the fights very unfair to gremory and bael groups, and when they inevitability win, makes their opponents look even weaker by comparison,

would high class devils with high pride take it well knowing they lost to a team that had 90% of their powers restricted? i think they'd rather lose to a full power gremory/bael improving the retiring system so that it can save competitors from dying to super attacks would be the better route for rating games

I agree that would be better ... but, since the author hasn't put much details on how the retiring system of the Rating Games works, but based upon it's effects that where portrayed in the novels so far...

I would say that it uses a wide area status reading spell, probably maintained by some unknown magical source.

This spell, once it discovers that one of Rating Games participants life functions reaches a certain preset critical value ... it automatically targets him / her and sends him / her, using a teleportation spell / circle to a preset location where the medical teams are located.

The issue that this system has ... is that it's too slow for some types of abilities like Rias's Extinguished Star for example and ... since a constantly cast spell + automatic targeting teleport spell ... seems to be a pretty complicated system to cast or upgrade ... meaning that the Devils or the other two members of the Alliance ... most likely haven't reached a sufficient technology level to change this system... yet.

DragoMuseveni
2014-05-26, 08:39
I agree that would be better ... but, since the author hasn't put much details on how the retiring system of the Rating Games works, but based upon it's effects that where portrayed in the novels so far...

I would say that it uses a wide area status reading spell, probably maintained by some unknown magical source.

This spell, once it discovers that one of Rating Games participants life functions reaches a certain preset critical value ... it automatically targets him / her and sends him / her, using a teleportation spell / circle to a preset location where the medical teams are located.

The issue that this system has ... is that it's too slow for some types of abilities like Rias's Extinguished Star for example and ... since a constantly cast spell + automatic targeting teleport spell ... seems to be a pretty complicated system to cast or upgrade ... meaning that the Devils or the other two members of the Alliance ... most likely haven't reached a sufficient technology level to change this system... yet.
They have Ajuka Beelzebub . I believe he will find a googd method to upgrade the sistem. Meanwile i belive that germory or sitri will be the most powerfull team in the pro matchs

aw454wtr
2014-05-26, 09:50
I agree that would be better ... but, since the author hasn't put much details on how the retiring system of the Rating Games works, but based upon it's effects that where portrayed in the novels so far...

I would say that it uses a wide area status reading spell, probably maintained by some unknown magical source.

This spell, once it discovers that one of Rating Games participants life functions reaches a certain preset critical value ... it automatically targets him / her and sends him / her, using a teleportation spell / circle to a preset location where the medical teams are located.

The issue that this system has ... is that it's too slow for some types of abilities like Rias's Extinguished Star for example and ... since a constantly cast spell + automatic targeting teleport spell ... seems to be a pretty complicated system to cast or upgrade ... meaning that the Devils or the other two members of the Alliance ... most likely haven't reached a sufficient technology level to change this system... yet.

The current retiring system used in rating games was made using only devil technology, but now with the alliance prehaps heaven and more likely grigori can infuse their technology to further improve the system

DocBernax2814
2014-05-26, 11:53
My dream is too see an All-Out Battle Royale or Royal Rumble were the last one standing, or barely standing, wins.

No restrictions, everything goes. What a slaughter would that be.

Royalknightftw
2014-05-27, 00:35
@Doc LOL, perhaps the only ones who can survive that kind of fight are Gasper, Issei, and Sairaorg

Biohazardous
2014-05-28, 11:05
My dream is too see an All-Out Battle Royale or Royal Rumble were the last one standing, or barely standing, wins.

No restrictions, everything goes. What a slaughter would that be.

That would be insane.

The Rating games now are stacked against Gremory. They are way to strong that being said to me they have the most to gain from the RS. If they can manage to keep them going awhile they learn to tone down that destructive power. When they can tone down the power to say pop a single water balloon vs take out a building they would be almost unstoppable. You have a team able to take out blocks or cities with their abilities only using enough to injure you. They would probally use alot less stamina than others and basically finish off people when they are tired except for on the time limit games.

DocBernax2814
2014-05-28, 18:15
That would be insane.

The Rating games now are stacked against Gremory. They are way to strong that being said to me they have the most to gain from the RS. If they can manage to keep them going awhile they learn to tone down that destructive power. When they can tone down the power to say pop a single water balloon vs take out a building they would be almost unstoppable. You have a team able to take out blocks or cities with their abilities only using enough to injure you. They would probally use alot less stamina than others and basically finish off people when they are tired except for on the time limit games.

Agree, as time pass, they are going to hone their skills until they can do surgical precision strikes.

aw454wtr
2014-05-28, 22:50
That would be insane.

The Rating games now are stacked against Gremory. They are way to strong that being said to me they have the most to gain from the RS. If they can manage to keep them going awhile they learn to tone down that destructive power. When they can tone down the power to say pop a single water balloon vs take out a building they would be almost unstoppable. You have a team able to take out blocks or cities with their abilities only using enough to injure you. They would probally use alot less stamina than others and basically finish off people when they are tired except for on the time limit games.

Other rating game teams in the bottom ranks would be thinking "oh crap we have to fight the debuting gremory's, maou-sama have mercy on our souls"

Biohazardous
2014-05-29, 07:32
Lol they sure would. From what we are seeing I think that someday this part of the Gremory team will be the top dogs passing even her brother.

DocBernax2814
2014-06-02, 16:52
Lol they sure would. From what we are seeing I think that someday this part of the Gremory team will be the top dogs passing even her brother.

Time will tell.

kusabireika
2014-06-10, 18:24
Just wondering in the future after the rookie 4 defeat the treat on the peace

Can a low-mid-high rank of the high class devils can defeat the rookie 4 who was train by top brass of dxd ?

Tbolt
2014-06-10, 18:31
You never teach your students everything, you always keep your One shot kill move to yourself.

kusabireika
2014-06-10, 18:36
You never teach your students everything, you always keep your One shot kill move to yourself.

I know but just wondering if the other high class devil in the rating game can defeat the upcoming rookie 4 "holding back their special move"

Well the ln said that some high class devil don't train and switch servants so it will be shocked on their pride when they face the 4 masters of the rookie 4 :heehee:

GrrDraxin
2014-06-10, 20:30
I would say that the other rating game players are probably confident in their own positions of power, and don't feel the rookie 4 as any threat to them, even if they train.

But also some of them that follow the activities of the R4 might start to reconsider. Given how much info makes it out from many of the operations Ise participated in, I'm sure some of them were shaking in their booties when Ise combined with Great Red to take down Jabberwoky. Those matches may insist on a handicap for the Gremory just so as not to be totally annihilated by them in formal games.

kusabireika
2014-06-10, 20:35
I would say that the other rating game players are probably confident in their own positions of power, and don't feel the rookie 4 as any threat to them, even if they train.

But also some of them that follow the activities of the R4 might start to reconsider. Given how much info makes it out from many of the operations Ise participated in, I'm sure some of them were shaking in their booties when Ise combined with Great Red to take down Jabberwoky. Those matches may insist on a handicap for the Gremory just so as not to be totally annihilated by them in formal games.
I agree with you about gremory


But I think they will limit bael group too you "no combine with your servant (regulus)"
For sitri I guess no saji bb "coz his bb is kinda op :heh:"

Or no special killing op moves from the rookie 4 to be fair for other high class devil contestant :heehee"

Biohazardous
2014-06-11, 06:39
I think for most battle Gremory will be limited. At first I have a feeling this will make things hard for them. Later though I think it will be the reason they get even stronger. They will have to learn more control. The Gremory gang will eventually be a group that is not only very powerful they will also have alot of control over that power.

Ravagerblade
2015-02-05, 15:18
I wonder if there will ever be a 2v2 and such.
Imagine IT!!!!!! lol

ImperialFlameGod8190
2015-02-05, 15:59
the closest they had to something like that was the game against Sairoarg

Ravagerblade
2015-02-05, 16:07
the closest they had to something like that was the game against Sairoarg

true, but it wasn't what I'm thinking about; 2 Kings and their servants vs the same.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2015-02-05, 16:14
true, but it wasn't what I'm thinking about; 2 Kings and their servants vs the same.

okay in other words a rating game where two sets of Kings take on another two sets of Kings. You should clarify that.


As for will it happen... never the problem with that idea is that Devil's dont seem to suggest that that idea will work plus there probably arent many sets of devils that would team up especially considering that you wouldnt know who takes credit for the win.

GDB
2015-02-05, 16:25
Only way I'd see it working would be like, King + Subordinate King teamup. So for example, Team Gremory + Team Sekiryuutei vs like... Team Sitri + Team Tsubaki (after up and comers get their own set of pieces and make teams, of course). Just as an example. Otherwise I agree that it wouldn't really work.

Ravagerblade
2015-02-05, 16:27
okay in other words a rating game where two sets of Kings take on another two sets of Kings. You should clarify that.


As for will it happen... never the problem with that idea is that Devil's dont seem to suggest that that idea will work plus there probably arent many sets of devils that would team up especially considering that you wouldnt know who takes credit for the win.

Who cares about the win, it's a game to be played for fun.
besides which ever side of the 2v2 wins are the winners.

hyuugalegacy
2015-02-05, 16:29
Well it's meant to be related to chess right, you can't have two on two there so I doubt it. But I'm starting to hate how the RG has to nerf players, isn't it meant to show off your servants and get exp in no time of war?

ImperialFlameGod8190
2015-02-05, 16:42
Who cares about the win, it's a game to be played for fun.
besides which ever side of the 2v2 wins are the winners.

Im sorry i havent seen a single rating game so far that fits any definition of for fun.

Well it's meant to be related to chess right, you can't have two on two there so I doubt it. But I'm starting to hate how the RG has to nerf players, isn't it meant to show off your servants and get exp in no time of war?

The EPs have powers that relate to chess and thats really about it. The rating game to me is meant to show off your servants but its not about battle experience necessarily the rating games are more a power war within the devils. I mean at this point there's no indication they expected to really be fighitng the fallen angels or angels after the events. its more of a way to show what devils are the most powerful but war was never really something considered

Ravagerblade
2015-02-05, 16:46
Im sorry i havent seen a single rating game so far that fits any definition of for fun.

ok Mr. Cynical.

If I was in those rating games I'd already consider it fun on principle.

ImperialFlameGod8190
2015-02-05, 17:38
ok Mr. Cynical.

If I was in those rating games I'd already consider it fun on principle.

In this regards im not cynical but hey thats me

Wandering Soul
2015-02-05, 18:21
But I'm starting to hate how the RG has to nerf players, isn't it meant to show off your servants and get exp in no time of war?

Well your servants showing the ability to handle themselves even under a handicap does say a lot about their ability too. Besides I don't think many devils get enjoyment out of watching a complete curb stomp.

Darius Drake
2015-02-06, 18:16
The only restrictions I've seen in the Ratings Game so far has, essentially, been:
- "Special Field Condition" - Ratings Game vs Sitri Team & Ratings Gave vs Bael Team
- "If it makes the game boring, scares off your opponents or immediately kills them, you can't do it"

If you look at it differently, the first is what makes different ratings games different, so you can't complain about it being "unfair". Especially since it's basically the same restriction against both sides. In other words, this is the "don't destroy the environment", the "dice roll determines how many 'points' the peices you can send out have", and the "capturing flags gets you points" rules.

The second one is the one that stopped Gasper from using his Balor View powers in the Sitri Team match, because he couldn't control them and if they went out of control the match would be boring. It's also the restriction that stops Rias's "Extinguished Star" from being used, and that made Rias order Ise from using "Bilingual" in the Ratings game. That said, from my knowledge, Ise's still, officially, permitted to use "Bilingual" in Ratings Games, so it's just Rias's order so that they can still actually participate in Ratings Games.

-----------------------------

Onto what I want to see in a Ratings Game. I'm going to limit my selections to what I think is possible to see in a Ratings Game, instead of going to "This'll be cool, and would be interesting to see Ise/Rias do".

My idea is, essentially, a "Play Guard" Ratings Game. It can have two, base, formats:
1. One Team Protects, One Team Defends. Then they switch.
2. Both teams have to do both offence and defence at once.

The interesting thing is that this base can have numerous sub-divisions. One's "Castle Seige", while another's "Get the Cardboard Cutout People to Safety".