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Klashikari
2015-03-04, 10:45
Welcome to the discussion thread for KanColle, Episode 9.

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LoweGear
2015-03-04, 11:08
Everyone wondering why Yuudachi is glowing. Literally.

Stark700
2015-03-04, 11:32
http://i.imgur.com/gZj4mK7.jpg
Yuudachi looks cute this episode. I lost number of times she said POI this episode.

And also, what the hell was Kongou doing? lol. Good to see her comforting Fubuki though.

Verisimilitude
2015-03-04, 11:33
So the non-existent kuso TTK is dead?

Klashikari
2015-03-04, 11:35
I really really didn't expect to say that, but it was probably the worst episode of the series thus far, and it isn't exactly great considering how late game this one showed up.


Yuudachi's kai ni wasn't exactly exploited at all (nothing that would show the audience how far she changed, especially in specs), but it served as well as a mini drama catalyst... what the hell is that?

It was quite the cheap shot here, but the issue with the admiral became much worse because not only his decisions as of late don't exactly look apparent (thanks to Nagato for being way too predominant in the chain of command), but his disappearance would obviously not feel anything special whatsoever, since he feels like thin air already.

The ending point with Fubuki's mere remodel is...quite random considering how basic the first remodel process is.

applemummy
2015-03-04, 13:35
I really really didn't expect to say that, but it was probably the worst episode of the series thus far, and it isn't exactly great considering how late game this one showed up.


Yuudachi's kai ni wasn't exactly exploited at all (nothing that would show the audience how far she changed, especially in specs), but it served as well as a mini drama catalyst... what the hell is that?

It was quite the cheap shot here, but the issue with the admiral became much worse because not only his decisions as of late don't exactly look apparent (thanks to Nagato for being way too predominant in the chain of command), but his disappearance would obviously not feel anything special whatsoever, since he feels like thin air already.

The ending point with Fubuki's mere remodel is...quite random considering how basic the first remodel process is.
Yes yes yes, I have to create an ID just to tell how disappointed am I after watched ep 9 , I can understand a little Japanese so I can't get much but what's wrong with fubuki? Is she jealous of yuudachi or some things? This episode is really the worst consider to all 8ep before

Newprimus
2015-03-04, 13:46
Yuudachi's kai ni wasn't exactly exploited at all (nothing that would show the audience how far she changed, especially in specs), but it served as well as a mini drama catalyst... what the hell is that?

It was quite the cheap shot here, but the issue with the admiral became much worse because not only his decisions as of late don't exactly look apparent (thanks to Nagato for being way too predominant in the chain of command), but his disappearance would obviously not feel anything special whatsoever, since he feels like thin air already.

The ending point with Fubuki's mere remodel is...quite random considering how basic the first remodel process is.

Yuudachi's transformation was used as a catalyst for a further exploration into Fubuki's insecurities, coupled with the orders for her to return to base. I understand how you feel cheated of seeing some Yuudachi kai 2 action, but the show creators' essentially made a choice to have drama and character development over fanservice (the guns and torpedoes kind). On a fundamental level, I think they made the right choice even if it stole from Yuudachi, and I'm sure we'll have plenty of Yuudachi Kai 2 fanservice in the very near future.

Admiral's disappearance came about real suddenly and I feel we don't see the Kongou reaction we should've seen (although maybe she took care of that off-screen, plus she's not the stay put and mope type).

Klashikari
2015-03-04, 14:02
^ Since CR release is now available, going to set aside spoiler tags.

The problem is that there was no need to explore Fubuki's insecurities.
Really, this was already addressed, and to have another character progression screwed up to go back to square one with Fubuki was a very bad call, especially right after episode 8. Fubuki was already doing her best to overcome some odds and couldn't deal with Zuikaku and Kaga's issue right away, but she still managed to save the day. Hell, she was the one to address Yamato's longing for the sea.

Past the fact Yuudachi's remodel was completely put on the side lines, it was rather ridiculous how they have made Fubuki miserable for a third of the episode borderline pointlessly.
With only 3 episodes left AND the fact Fubuki got her share of progression thus far, this episode feels extremely awkward in regard to her characterization.

If we add the very clunky structure of this episode, it really feels as if they compressed 2 episodes into 1 for very odd reason, since it isn't like a lot of thing had happened there.

Really, I think they should have done something like
-Yuudachi receiving her second remodel
-Going on a sortie in order to attack MO island
-got rebuked by several patrols => Yuudachi's prowess (good opportunity for some night battles)
-immediately have to cease action as the wo kai is raiding the base, etc.

This would have contributed to Yuudachi's transformation -and- the current progress of Operation FS.
In comparison, we got needless drama for Fubuki and a lot of padding with cycling jokes (the only "fresh" funny scene was Yuubari's), with a notable ad nauseam repetition with Ooi and Kitakami. Frankly, they could have given more screentime for Yuudachi kai ni or other characters instead of recycling the same jokes over and over.

blitz1/2
2015-03-04, 14:06
Lol, she's evolving!!!! Press B to hold it back. xD

IceHism
2015-03-04, 14:21
did they have to spend most of the episode doing nothing. They could have put the doolittle raid more closer to the beginning.

blitz1/2
2015-03-04, 14:23
How can we have a continuing KC anime if the player character is dead?! xD

cloud04
2015-03-04, 14:26
should have made poi go into battle atleast ._. the hype from last week is just...gone and they getting fubuki ready for aa battles huh

Kopi
2015-03-04, 14:31
About Fubuki's remodel, well assuming she's at Kai now, her Kai ni (she gets an upgraded AA stats which is really good in game) is properly intended to deal with the BRS mode Wo as hinted in this episode that she can't really do anything against those abyssal planes.

Onto Poi's Kai Ni... I kinda feel like I got cheated. The remodeling process was just a scene switch and then Yuudachi became Kai Ni.. not to mention she got sidelined so fast and we got some loldrama with Fubuki. Wish there was a battle to demonstrate this Kai Ni transformation.

Lastly, the admiral's disappearance was eh.. considering he never appear on screen doing something. Even the girls don't give a damn about him (lol probably offscreen but still)

blitz1/2
2015-03-04, 14:51
About Fubuki's remodel, well assuming she's at Kai now, her Kai ni (she gets an upgraded AA stats which is really good in game) is properly intended to deal with the BRS mode Wo as hinted in this episode that she can't really do anything against those abyssal planes.

Onto Poi's Kai Ni... I kinda feel like I got cheated. The remodeling process was just a scene switch and then Yuudachi became Kai Ni.. not to mention she got sidelined so fast and we got some loldrama with Fubuki. Wish there was a battle to demonstrate this Kai Ni transformation.

Lastly, the admiral's disappearance was eh.. considering he never appear on screen doing something. Even the girls don't give a damn about him (lol probably offscreen but still)

Yea. I agreed, I was expecting some Zerg metamorphosis cocoon or Yuudachi being placed in a capsule, where they augment her.

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-04, 14:54
You know what the worst part is?
Yuudachi Kai Ni isn't the only one that got shoved aside....

Check the last scene - Yamato is missing they left her behind at her Hotel base :(.

As for the general issue:
I got no idea why everyone expected Fubuki to be the first, and even blutly put it in her face?
Flagship or not, Yuudachi was already around for some time and actually had battle experience when Fubuki came to the Naval district, so how on earth did they expect her to be first? :rolleyes:
Especially since the Admiral never told her fleet to grind node 3-2A? :heh:

The Green One
2015-03-04, 15:06
What did you expect to see her strapped to the table mad scientist style with all sorts of scary implements poised over her? Fubuki is the main character so it makes sense that it focuses on her.

chaosprophet
2015-03-04, 15:24
It was a fun episode. Laughed a lot at the earlier parts. I'm guessing Fubuki's remodel will be kai ni. The reason the commander was calling her back was likely for that. She may be really important as an AA unit being the only one they have that would have an air director. While in the anime they may not talk about the equipment itself, I expect Fubuki Kai ni to really excel at AA a lot because of it.

I don't mind they not showing much of Yuudachi new prowess, as we may be shown that in a future battle (after remodel Fubuki may join same fleet as Akagi with also Yuudachi for the last stretch of the anime). And I wasn't expecting that much focus on Yuudachi anyway, as the anime been consistently focusing on Fubuki as the main character, with only one exception.

EDIT: I agree with others the whole admiral part is strange, making he disappear now don't really add anything. I wish they went with an actual one or without one (having Nagato take command which is what happening in practice).

DerGilga
2015-03-04, 15:37
Is there any historical reference to the events in this episode? Wasn't really a comedy, drama or action episode. Felt very unfocused and the 'shocking suprise' at the end was kind of meh.

IceHism
2015-03-04, 15:40
Is there any historical reference to the events in this episode? Wasn't really a comedy, drama or action episode. Felt very unfocused and the 'shocking suprise' at the end was kind of meh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid

hoshino_crimsonwings
2015-03-04, 15:40
Kongou was great this episode too, best girl.

Kakurin
2015-03-04, 15:41
Well, that was bad. The composition of this episode was off. The major things:

- The entire Kai Ni thing. A bit sparkling, then disappearing, then reappearing looking a bit different and a bit taller. No word given about exactly why and what impact this has. I wonder how a non-gamer will think about this all. Probably just confused.

- The entire Fubuki drama felt forced. It unnecessry considering the road Fubuki has traveled and over the top with the depression taking so much space and time.

In addition the teitoku portrayal is meh. I think they've gotten into a dead end with this one. Trying to make him look competent while making him barely more than a shadow isn't working too well.

VentAileron
2015-03-04, 15:57
I am kind of surprised that people are so negative about this episode. I for one decently enjoyed it. I am also surprised this episode seems to be received worse than the last one, which is in my opinion the most boring and uneventful one up till now.

I am under the impression that many viewers still want this anime to be a plotless, slice-of-life, Kancolle player fanservice like show, which it was clearly not set out to be from episode 1. I think viewers are still trying to force their expectations on the show, instead of taking it in as is. Hyping things up based on an episode title isn't helping either.

Klashikari
2015-03-04, 15:58
Fubuki is the main character so it makes sense that it focuses on her. And I wasn't expecting that much focus on Yuudachi anyway, as the anime been consistently focusing on Fubuki as the main character, with only one exception.
It isn't that we needed a complete focus on Yuudachi. That's not the issue. The problem with all the kai ni jazz was to have something that -show- what it is about.
Episode 4 was fine with the Kongou sisters and still focusing on Fubuki who was still concerned about Mutsuki due to ep3 aftermath and other things. Likewise, the fact they didn't focus heavily on Mutsuki didn't annoyed me as they still make her grief looming on few occasions which was enough.

As I mentioned before, it would have been much more interesting to have a glimpse of Yuudachi kai ni's performance. Even if they forgo that, they could simply have Kongou explaining her own case which gives an idea how different a regular ship and its kai ni form are.



Also, frankly, there were so many ways to introduce the kai ni system:
-Yuudachi gaining MVP (practice or patrol duty) then having her evolution
-Anime original stuff with Yuubari tinkering Yuudachi's equipment which has an effect on her
-Second attempt in crushing MO Base but stopped cold by Wo class kai, leading to a desperate situation which triggers a berserk mode in Yuudachi

These 3 simple presentations would be more interesting than Yuudachi's glowing out of nowhere.
But I could ignore that point if it wasn't for the very awkward padding and Yuudachi's remodel being completely sidelined and used for DRAMA.

I am kind of surprised that people are so negative about this episode. I for one decently enjoyed it. I am also surprised this episode seems to be received worse than the last one, which is in my opinion the most boring and uneventful one up till now.I beg to differ. Whereas episode 8 was quite slow, it actually went further in dynamics between characters like Kaga and Zuikaku, or more importantly, Yamato and Fubuki. Also the events of episode 8 established further the whole point of Operation FS.

Meanwhile, Episode 9 events didn't contribute anything to the general plot except the assault on the naval district, which is absolutely not related to whatever happened to Fubuki and Yuudachi in this very episode.
I am under the impression that many viewers still want this anime to be a plotless, slice-of-life, Kancolle player fanservice like show, which it was clearly not set out to be from episode 1. I think viewers are still trying to force their expectations on the show, instead of taking it in as is. Hyping things up based on an episode title isn't helping either.You got it backwards: it is exactly because this episode didn't contribute to the main plot that I disliked it.
Yes, episode 6 and the likes didn't contribute anything special either, but at least it didn't shoehorned drama that was not necessary whatsoever. Considering we have only 3 episodes left, it just doesn't make sense to have the plot stagnate on an issue that isn't supposed to happen to begin with.

The funny thing is that episode 1 was actually very centred on fanservice for Kancolle players, to the point a lot of people were puzzled what the series is about. I personally think they don't need to shove game dialogues or even more cameo, as they need to proceed with the plot.

DerGilga
2015-03-04, 16:13
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doolittle_Raid
thanks!

I am kind of surprised that people are so negative about this episode. I for one decently enjoyed it. I am also surprised this episode seems to be received worse than the last one, which is in my opinion the most boring and uneventful one up till now.


I can only speak for myself, but
a) the beginning (kai ni + comedy) was fine
b) Fubuki's talk with Yamato and Akagi was itself also ok, but the big eater jokes were kind of counterproductive to the mood of the scene
c) Fubuki downer moment was also fine, but then it was resolved 5min later making it kind of pointless
d) The attack happened and we have a destroyed navy district, but 2 min later they rebuild it with happy background music
e) the admirals gone, but I don't know him so I don't care at all
f) and shocking scene with Fubuki at the end did't shocked me at all, because I have no idea why I should be shocked. Is remodeling some kind of super rare or super dangerous training?

Basically things just happened with no real impact on me, the viewer.

AntonKutovoi
2015-03-04, 16:21
So Admiral is dead? I thought he was already killed off-screen by Nagato, so she could issue orders from his name :p

Gravitas Free Zone
2015-03-04, 16:28
The dramatic climax at the end with Fubuki singled out for a remodel is completely undercut by the rest of the episode that preceded it; Yuudachi has been working hard (almost entirely offscreen!) so she could get her Kai Ni, the process of which happened entirely offscreen (except for a pantyshot). Yuudachi did some more training that left her a little winded—almost entirely offscreen, and after she was Kai Ni. So all the viewer really has to expect for Fubuki's remodel is that she'll have to take her clothes off and some time later she'll emerge perhaps a bit taller, with a new look, though...

her in-game Kai Ni form hardly changes anything visually.

The episode just killed its own momentum by setting up the remodeling process as TOTALLY AWESOME, MAN! and then barely doing anything with it, then piling on the other two storylines. It might work better if someone is marathoning all the episodes (and presumably the next episode they go and fight something), but as something that we now have to wait a week for, it was a lot of sound but no fury.

bhl88
2015-03-04, 16:30
And I thought Fubuki was jealous of Yuudachi's poi-sets. *poi-ed away by the new Kai Ni*

Then Shimakaze interrupts the monologue talks about Fubuki not receiving Kai Ni despite being a flagship....

KBTKaiser
2015-03-04, 16:34
to answer from a gaming perspective, DerGilga, remodels are upgrades with no ability to downgrade after hitting confirm. For some girls people purposefully keep them in a lower form due to utility(Chitose and Chiyoda have an expedition that only they can do, so most people have two sets, one for staying in AV seaplane tender, the other set as their Kai Ni CVL Light Carrier form, other examples include keeping a spare Yuubari and Tenryu/Tatsuta for their economical fuel/ammo costs for expedition work) or for art preferences(Kongou Kai Ni got lots of backlash for the monkey ears, and a number of TTKs refused to upgrade U-511 Kai into Ro-500 due to the change in art)

rladls2121
2015-03-04, 17:39
Poi = It seems. At least that's I think.

This is really bad, they are all going to die!
The enemies also all going to die!
Leaving few survivers, for what?

FlareKnight
2015-03-04, 17:47
Start of this episode I was wondering why it was taking Yuudachi so long to digivolve :D.

I sure hope that Admiral knows what he's doing. When you try to force digi....I mean remodeling when the timing isn't right it could be problematic. If she isn't overheating like Yuudachi can she actually be remodeled? Oh well, if Fubuki turns into SkullGreymon it's not my issue.

Either way so the admiral who we've never seen is missing....so status quo? Not too much to worry about if a character that's never said anything isn't around to not say anything.

Props to Kongou. Once again she does a good job being a shoulder to cry on :). Good job just letting Fubuki vent everything. Although I can't say I ever really like the Fubuki drama. For some reason I just don't feel that bad for her. Yuudachi clearly worked her butt off to get that upgrade and yet that gets pushed so Fubuki could feel bad. One person asked why not her and she goes off on a downward spiral. To get lifted up...and then back on another downward spiral.

Wandering Soul
2015-03-04, 18:11
Yuudachi finally evolved. We should get to see her in action soon so I'm looking forward to it. There's no real point in the Admiral disappearing since he is basically never around to begin with.

Fubuki's evolution is coming up next.

Random Wanderer
2015-03-04, 18:14
- The entire Kai Ni thing. A bit sparkling, then disappearing, then reappearing looking a bit different and a bit taller. No word given about exactly why and what impact this has. I wonder how a non-gamer will think about this all. Probably just confused.

...Um, they kind of explained exactly why and exactly what impact it has. It's not hard to understand when they explicitly say that she has been remodeled, that it's a result of the significant effort and experience she's put in, and that she now has notably more firepower than she used to.

Flower
2015-03-04, 18:31
Hafta admit I liked seeing the remodeled Yuudachi ... kudos to her hard work. And, of course, will enjoy seeing a remodeled Fubuki.

Kongou as a strong, kind and caring "onee-san" works a whole lot better for me than her silly side emphasis wise. She has been extremely helpful for poor Fubuki in the ups and downs she has gone through. :)

Also like the fact that the Abyssal Fleet stuck it to the KanColle fleet when they were not watching, that is, that it is emphasized that they are not just generic enemies to be shot down but are actually smart and dangerous opponents.

~Yami~
2015-03-04, 18:38
I have no complaint about this episode

Yuudachi kai-ni is one of the best destroyer around... which is why Fubuki got deserted so fast :heh:
I enjoy the drama though.. and also about the fact that Kongou always show up randomly and save the day
Envy and jealousy are overwhelming but they are tolerable

The ending is quite surprising... the naval base got destroyed
but they mess the drama a little since the naval base got rebuilded in no time
There is not much panic about disappearance of admiral as well

Admiral.. such manly act.. protecting your kanmusu waifu and even when you disappear, you leave orders for them
rather than seeing Fubuki Kai-Ni, I prefer to see others kanmusu Kai-ni like Sendai, etc :heh:

Requiem-x
2015-03-04, 18:39
Well, that is a very nice way to introduce Yuudachi's new form. And then we hit Kill la kill final episode syndrome. Not that everything was bad, mind you, I did enjoy Kongou getting to act like a big sister again, and Yuudachi is of course adorable, and it's not like Fubuki's situation should be unexpected, I mean, her fretting over not having a kai 2 was a long running joke in the official 4koma, so of course you have to do something like that. It just went a bit too fast. And yes, we could've used a bit more time with the little puppy prior to this, but hopefully we get more of her in the remaining time, and sure, Mutsuki too, she earned it.

Anyway, there's still 3 more episodes, and with all the mandatory drama out of the way (or flat out ignored) it should be smooth sailing from here, and by that I mean Fubuki and crew being badasses.

By the way, I actually thought Fubuki would be named provisional admiral at the end, so that might have to do with why I'm pretty ok with what actually happened.

Wait, how is she gonna get remodeled without shining?:heh:

rather than seeing Fubuki Kai-Ni, I prefer to see others kanmusu Kai-ni like Sendai, etc :heh:

Fubuki is fine. But Sendai is love and badass :love:

Seihai
2015-03-04, 18:50
Overall I don't see how this episode is any worse than the others, or maybe I'm a bit indifferent about things. The way they presented Yuudachi's new form was rather disappointing, but I am sure that she will get her time to shine (assuming together with Fubuki but who knows) and that it will make up for the current disappointment of people regarding this.

Otherwise yeah, Fubuki's drama was uneccessary. They could have used that time more efficiently or at least not butcher it like they did.

Gamer wise I'm happy they finally gave Hiryuu and Souryuu's VA some lines for a moment.

cloud04
2015-03-04, 18:54
I actually wanna see a night battle now

Requiem-x
2015-03-04, 19:04
I actually wanna see a night battle now

Oh, I knew I was forgetting something! Yeah, yasen when? Was the staff afraid it wouldn't be erotic enough for the fanbase?

Also, forgot to mention too, I did feel bad for Fubuki when it seemed she was getting shafted for Yuudachi, so it's not like all the drama failed.

Marcus H.
2015-03-04, 19:40
I don't get why people are so sour about the Kai Ni thing. First off, Fubuki remains the lead, so any focus to other characters would probably act to accompany Fubuki's development.

- The entire Kai Ni thing. A bit sparkling, then disappearing, then reappearing looking a bit different and a bit taller. No word given about exactly why and what impact this has. I wonder how a non-gamer will think about this all. Probably just confused.

- The entire Fubuki drama felt forced. It unnecessary considering the road Fubuki has traveled and over the top with the depression taking so much space and time.

As a non-gamer, the previous scenes in the "infirmary" implies some things. Maybe it's a mere refitting of new equipment [KTKM+Ooi scene], maybe it involves some mad scientist-tier tweaking [the mechanic ship scene], or maybe it's a simple growth spurt. Fubuki will probably get a refitting most likely.

And Fubuki forced drama? Well, if you look back at the stuff revisited in the episode (her training and running around the Naval District, trying to get Akagi's praise, and wanting to make it to the First Fleet), you'd know how deserving Fubuki is to at least get a new group to hang out with. Instead, Yuudachi gets a remodel, her group is disbanded, and she's forced to sit this one out. She's literally being deprived of the perks of being a main character if we're going full meta about it. It's no surprise Fubuki would sulk about it, but she's also the type that doesn't let herself down for too long.

As for the "non-existent" admiral, well he's not so kuso this time. He's most likely brought out Fubuki as an unlikely scouting party while he sorts out what to do with MO and the Naval District left mostly undefended.

Let's see next episode if the admiral has everything sorted out.

Miraluka
2015-03-04, 19:44
Diomedea please... that's what you get for not showing Admiral...

Qikz
2015-03-04, 19:59
Needs more Shigure. I like Yuudachi, but put her in a division with Shigure Kai ni and send em to 1-5 I say. Then introduce some sub! :D

cloud04
2015-03-04, 20:01
i noticed shimakaze was actually tall

Marina2
2015-03-04, 20:02
You know what the worst part is?
Yuudachi Kai Ni isn't the only one that got shoved aside....

Check the last scene - Yamato is missing they left her behind at her Hotel base :(.

As for the general issue:
I got no idea why everyone expected Fubuki to be the first, and even blutly put it in her face?
Flagship or not, Yuudachi was already around for some time and actually had battle experience when Fubuki came to the Naval district, so how on earth did they expect her to be first? :rolleyes:
Especially since the Admiral never told her fleet to grind node 3-2A? :heh:

I think it is a reference to the game that the ship in flagship position will gain more Exp than other ships.

Even if the flagship start as lv1 while other ships are lv40+, after some exp farming, flagship level will be able to keep up with other ships (even more faster if it gets MVP often)

cloud04
2015-03-04, 20:05
poi's k2 is at 55 while fubuki is at 70 although i doubt this would have any relation coz if you look at both of them getting a k2 one after the other, i doubt poi is that low in terms of lvl...
lets just say poi is natural evolve while fubuki is forced evolve lol

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-04, 20:20
I think it is a reference to the game that the ship in flagship position will gain more Exp than other ships.

Even if the flagship start as lv1 while other ships are lv40+, after some exp farming, flagship level will be able to keep up with other ships (more faster if it get MVP often)

Yuudachi was likely already Kai when the series began, while Fubuki was level 1 (remember they never let her on the sea).
For her to get KaiNithan Yuudachi, Yuudachi would have to never get MVP(Who still gets more than the flagship btw).

Fubuki on the other hand was in a group with 2 carriers, 2 CLTs and a Battleship, so the likelyhood that she became MVP even once is rather small.

In addtion Yuudachi and her fleet were still deployed off screen, like all the others too. The amount of time that has passed since them splitting and Yuudachi getting KaiNi is generally not that big.

Marcus H.
2015-03-04, 20:22
For her to get there fgaster than Yuudachi, Yuudachi would have to never get MVP(Who still gets more than the flagship btw),.

Well, we don't know how far Yuudachi has gone because there were several timeskips in the series.

Darth Fanta
2015-03-04, 20:44
Kongou doesn't look too upset after the Admiral died or went missing.

chaosprophet
2015-03-04, 21:15
Yuudachi was likely already Kai when the series began, while Fubuki was level 1 (remember they never let her on the sea).

From the first episode, Yuudachi and Mutsuki have only been in two battles before Fubuki came, and one where the "big girls" did all the work.

Also from this episode it's clear the girls don't know Fubuki needed quite more experience to get a kai ni than Yuudachi does, they only comment something on that line as a theory to why she may have yet to do it.

blakstealth
2015-03-04, 22:02
Ayo, fuckin Yuudachi. Holy shit, that black. That slick black uniform. Those red eyes. Wow. She looks so much better now.

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-04, 22:24
From the first episode, Yuudachi and Mutsuki have only been in two battles before Fubuki came, and one where the "big girls" did all the work.

Also from this episode it's clear the girls don't know Fubuki needed quite more experience to get a kai ni than Yuudachi does, they only comment something on that line as a theory to why she may have yet to do it.

My point is that Yuudachi was likely already Kai when they first met in EP 1, while Fubiki started out as Level 1.
Another point is that Mutsuki didn't say she only had 2 battles at all but 2 battles before she was assigned to this fleet, Yuudachi on the other hand never gave us her Battle records.
Fubuki also apparently stopped her morning training(otherwise they had met) while Yuudachi started doing hers every day.

Both Yuudachi and Fubuki had off screen battles too, as the anime clearly doesn't follow the 4 fleets only rule.

kaizerknight01
2015-03-04, 22:32
Kongou doesn't look too upset after the Admiral died or went missing.


cause She knows the Teitoku with a certain "remodel" will appear when she's in trouble

http://i.imgur.com/wKaSpqs.png

Estavali
2015-03-04, 22:58
I was kinda disappointed that Yuudachi got her Kai Ni in this rather offhanded manner but taking a step back, I think the real purpose behind this issue is to show how Fubuki has indirectly influenced her friends, while at the same time reminding the viewer (and Fubuki herself) that she's not the only one that's been hard at work here.

On the first point, it's been established earlier on, in particular episode 2, that Yuudachi is (or was) the slacker of the cast. That this girl, who almost got poi-poi-poi-ed by Ashigara for not paying attention in class, would find the motivation to step up on her own improvement even after her power-up, shows just how much Fubuki's own diligence has impressed her. Fubuki might have found the new-and-improved Yuudachi a bit too bright and shiny in the beginning but it might be just as true for Yuudachi too: that a fellow destroyer, one who couldn't even surf properly as befit a kanmusu, would improve so remarkably because of her hard work, probably made Yuudachi reflect on her own lack of it. Remember also that it was Yuudachi who poked fun at Fubuki's incompetence (episode 2). When Fubuki became flagship, Yuudachi probably felt that she couldn't afford to slack on any more and got fired up herself ;)

On the second point, with Fubuki's recent accomplishments, it's easy to forget that she, the MC, is not the only one in the base that has been putting in her all. The Akatsuki sisters aside, that her fellow newbies (Mutsuki and Yuudachi) were deemed good enough to take part in MO shows that they weren't too shabby themselves too. Yuudachi's Kai Ni probably came at a right time imho. Many a character has stumbled because their hard work and subsequent success have lulled them gradually into complacency and/or a mentality that they're the only ones in the team (or at least among their peers) that's actually contributing to the overall effort. I think Fubuki has at least fallen into the second category. Her depression imho stems from a disgruntlement which itself comes from a belief that her contributions are being unfairly overlooked in favour of a less deserving comrade. It's only after she is shown that she was not alone in diligence that she realises her own ignorance (and perhaps arrogance) and finally cheers up =3



On hindsight, I was more or less ready for Yuudachi not to get her Kai Ni in a badass manner. Or even have it in the first place, not after the studio pulled a fast one on us with episode six :heh:. It could be due to my belief that Kancolle the Anime is following the Nanoha format and that I'm convinced that the climax will build at episode 10 and finish at 11, leaving 12 as an epilogue to complete any unresolved ends =3

blitz1/2
2015-03-04, 23:02
At least Wo flag kai made it lol. xD

Requiem-x
2015-03-04, 23:04
It could be due to my belief that Kancolle the Anime is following the Nanoha format and that I'm convinced that the climax will build at episode 10 and finish at 11, leaving 12 as an epilogue to complete any unresolved ends =3

You mean Fubuki getting the ring :D I mean, why not? We're already seeing so many mechanics from the game, right? I would be ok with something more on the hear-warming side, like Nanoha did.

Eisdrache
2015-03-04, 23:52
I am severly disappointed that after they put the second remodel in the last episode as main focus to just ... have it happen offscreen with zero buildup nonetheless. This is just plain bad story telling.

The part with Yuudachi training was nicely done and I liked that the one who was the laziest actually found the motivation and was rewarded for it. That said they used the whole thing as a catalyst to fuel Fubuki drama - again. Didn't we have enough of that already? Not only does she not trust TTK's decisions even after the motivational 'speech' he did in ep1, she never asked for the reason either.

As a side note, Fubuki's fandom with Akagi could be downtoned a notch. Not that I mind it that much but it's getting repetitive.

The Mogami/Fubuki/Mutsuki group accompany Hiryuu (she speaks!) and Soryuu back to the naval district, but then the latter two just disappear. As members of the previous carrier group one, they should at least give instructions when they see the bombed area. Yet the one in charge is Mogami?

Then the whole thing with TTK staying behind. What should I feel about a character that I only know the shadow of? I can see the reasoning why they didn't show him in the first place but then they suddenly drag him out of the background like this. It just doesn't make sense.

As for the ending, Fubuki gets Kai Ni. Why was a third of ep9 dedicated to showing Fubuki dealing with her issues when she just gets her second remodel at the end anyway? The whole drama could have been replaced by something more meaningful instead.

SaintessHeart
2015-03-05, 00:08
Needs more Shigure. I like Yuudachi, but put her in a division with Shigure Kai ni and send em to 1-5 I say. Then introduce some sub! :D

Then add Tokitsukaze and Asashio.

Doggy squad. Fueled by tummy rubs. :D

Nvis
2015-03-05, 00:27
I cried a little for Fubuki.

I am tempted by Poi-remodel, but Fubuki despair totally got my full attention.

Wo-class looking for payback....

Is that why the admiral wanted Fubuki back to the Naval District, to be remodeled?
Or he wanted her to "personally" protect him. :naughty:

The Green One
2015-03-05, 00:40
Yes Wo-class is definitely out for blood. Makes you wonder if it's hunting Fubuki personally.

Kakurin
2015-03-05, 01:10
Gamer wise I'm happy they finally gave Hiryuu and Souryuu's VA some lines for a moment.
Sōryū's seiyū is none other than Uesaka Sumire (Fubuki). :D

The Mogami/Fubuki/Mutsuki group accompany Hiryuu (she speaks!) and Soryuu back to the naval district, but then the latter two just disappear. As members of the previous carrier group one, they should at least give instructions when they see the bombed area. Yet the one in charge is Mogami?
As far as I've understood it Fubuki, Mutsuki and Mogami were to go ahead and scout out and secure the road, while the carriers heading to sea a bit later.

And Fubuki forced drama? Well, if you look back at the stuff revisited in the episode (her training and running around the Naval District, trying to get Akagi's praise, and wanting to make it to the First Fleet), you'd know how deserving Fubuki is to at least get a new group to hang out with. Instead, Yuudachi gets a remodel, her group is disbanded, and she's forced to sit this one out. She's literally being deprived of the perks of being a main character if we're going full meta about it. It's no surprise Fubuki would sulk about it, but she's also the type that doesn't let herself down for too long.
And that's why it feels forced to me. It isn't some natural development, but rather a sudden out-of-the-blue pull with her group getting disbanded without any explanation. Just seems like artificially fanned up in order to increase Fubuki's depression.

IceHism
2015-03-05, 02:05
I wonder if they made the admiral missing because the plans have already been figured out and since he's not there to be able to change the plans, it'll lead to a devastating defeat at the battle of midway.

Kakurin
2015-03-05, 02:11
I wonder if they made the admiral missing because the plans have already been figured out and since he's not there to be able to change the plans, it'll lead to a devastating defeat at the battle of midway.
This doesn't really make sense. They already know more or less that their codes have been broken. There was enough time to change the plans.

msg
2015-03-05, 02:43
as already said..

That Fubuki's whiningcrying, self doubt and jealousy is totally unnecessary imo.That scene is so awkward.They could use that part to show the attack of the HQ a bit more and tone down a bit of that "drama".I know this anime is focused on fubuki but they could use her part in better ways like say for example more patroling and training with yuudachi and mitsuki..(or the enemy pov spying on the island or the Hq girls defending the base against the suprise attack..etc)
....that factory scene leading up to yuudachi is also unnecessary...it's a repeat of the same thing and doesn't move the plot.

And still no Musashi and subs cameo...:(

...And Nagato at the end:"fubuki, i choose you!" is lol

chaosprophet
2015-03-05, 03:39
As for the ending, Fubuki gets Kai Ni. Why was a third of ep9 dedicated to showing Fubuki dealing with her issues when she just gets her second remodel at the end anyway? The whole drama could have been replaced by something more meaningful instead.

I don't think it's just a matter of deciding to remodel her and that's it. It does seems like the current plan is to remodel her, so they will make an effort to grind her next episode (like training).

James Rye
2015-03-05, 04:05
Ayo, fuckin Yuudachi. Holy shit, that black. That slick black uniform. Those red eyes. Wow. She looks so much better now.

Don't forget what the other destroyer girls focused on - them legs and those fuel tanks. XDDD

The episode was good, can understand Fubuki's frustration/sadnessas she feels drifiting further away from her dream to sail with Akagi in one fleet.

Would have liked some more action, but I guess we get the full package in episode 11 and 12 with 10 being a SoL about Fubuki getting an upgrade where she still looks pretty much like before. XD

Disbanding her fleet means though that Kaga and Zuikaku aren't sleeping in the same room anymore, right? D:

Qikz
2015-03-05, 05:13
I wonder if they made the admiral missing because the plans have already been figured out and since he's not there to be able to change the plans, it'll lead to a devastating defeat at the battle of midway.

Didn't they already do operation F-S or is it F-S that they're preparing for and I'm miss remembering things? F-S (or the real version of it) in the war IIRC was the plan to "liberate" the island of Fiji and that was cancelled when they had massive losses at Midway.

Marina2
2015-03-05, 07:55
Hmm, I guess Yuudachi will replace either Ikazuchi or Inazuma in 1div carrier group right? wait, no...after ep.5 we don't know who are in 1div carrier group right now....

http://i.imgur.com/4RIPt6h.jpg

Come to think of it, if Ikazuchi and Inazuma can go sortie with 1div carrier group (which is Fubuki life's goal), I guess that means Akatsuki sisters in anime have high level or very skilled. Too bad we never see them in battle after ep.1.

Anyway, which fleet does Fubuki belong to after this ep? The same fleet with Mutsuki?

and can I hope for Fubuki x Mutsuki next ep? :P

Ryuuoh DeltaPlus
2015-03-05, 08:13
On the second point, with Fubuki's recent accomplishments, it's easy to forget that she, the MC, is not the only one in the base that has been putting in her all. The Akatsuki sisters aside, that her fellow newbies (Mutsuki and Yuudachi) were deemed good enough to take part in MO shows that they weren't too shabby themselves too. Yuudachi's Kai Ni probably came at a right time imho. Many a character has stumbled because their hard work and subsequent success have lulled them gradually into complacency and/or a mentality that they're the only ones in the team (or at least among their peers) that's actually contributing to the overall effort. I think Fubuki has at least fallen into the second category. Her depression imho stems from a disgruntlement which itself comes from a belief that her contributions are being unfairly overlooked in favour of a less deserving comrade. It's only after she is shown that she was not alone in diligence that she realises her own ignorance (and perhaps arrogance) and finally cheers up =3


THIS.

I really am surprised why everyone's ranting about Fubuki's angst as out-of-place.
This explanation is the best that I found.

Sheba
2015-03-05, 08:30
From a gameplay pov, how many TTK still used their starters as part of their main fleet as soon as Poi, Shigure hit Kai Ni, or have landed Yukikaze or Shimakaze as drop or lucky ship bulding?

blitz1/2
2015-03-05, 09:04
From a gameplay pov, how many TTK still used their starters as part of their main fleet as soon as Poi, Shigure hit Kai Ni, or have landed Yukikaze or Shimakaze as drop or lucky ship bulding?

I still do, occasionally as my Murakumo still goes OCCASIONALLY to combat. But the burden is mostly now carried by my imouto spec ops team (Shigure, YUkikaze, Ayanami Myoukou, now training Hatsushimo)

Seihai
2015-03-05, 09:30
I really am surprised why everyone's ranting about Fubuki's angst as out-of-place.
This explanation is the best that I found.

Call me stubborn but even a plausible explanation isn't gonna change my opinion that Fubuki's drama felt forcefully glued on. I'm mostly iffy about the execution than the fact that it happened at all which I'm totally okay with. It simply didn't flow that well in my eyes. :v

From a gameplay pov, how many TTK still used their starters as part of their main fleet as soon as Poi, Shigure hit Kai Ni, or have landed Yukikaze or Shimakaze as drop or lucky ship bulding?

My Inazuma is still my 5th highest leveled DD and I tend to use her whenever I feel like I don't need to make use of the best stats which is kinda 50/50 depending on my luck and mood.

Ryuuoh DeltaPlus
2015-03-05, 09:32
From a gameplay pov, how many TTK still used their starters as part of their main fleet as soon as Poi, Shigure hit Kai Ni, or have landed Yukikaze or Shimakaze as drop or lucky ship bulding?

I have Yukikaze. I never used her in combat and she's on expedition duties.

My Shimakaze's just chilling on my base.

As for my starter (I picked Samidare), well, she sunk on 1-3 boss node due to my ignorance of the sinking mechanics on my early days of playing. However, I got another Samidare not too long after that, and now she's LV72 and is part of my main DD force.

Klashikari
2015-03-05, 09:40
I really am surprised why everyone's ranting about Fubuki's angst as out-of-place.
This explanation is the best that I found.
Going to ditto Seiha's post as well as adding additional points:
Call me stubborn but even a plausible explanation isn't gonna change my opinion that Fubuki's drama felt forcefully glued on. I'm mostly iffy about the execution than the fact that it happened at all which I'm totally okay with. It simply didn't flow that well in my eyes. :v
If Fubuki had that drama way earlier (like, ep4-5) and BEFORE being promoted to Flagship position of the Mobile Squadron, I wouldn't complain either.

The context and the execution were extremely poor in that department, even moreso after what she went through with Zuikaga antics, and Yamato.

Estavali's explanations could make sense if this situation was set earlier in the series. However, I can't buy that explanation either, simply because there was no implication that Fubuki had such strong inferiority complex to the point she would despair in such fashion. At least, not after all the experience and efforts she went through, while still doubting about her worth.
Nevermind the awkward attempt to build drama by omitting the reason of her forced return, it is really all the careful progression leaping backwards all of a sudden that bothered me a lot.

I'm not saying this episode was a disaster, and I would be lying if I say I didn't have any expectations. However, letting aside my disappointment as the anime staff discarded a good opportunity to address remodel in general, Fubuki's characterization and the plot transition were the weakest parts of this episode, hence why I said it was the worst episode to date.
And before people makes weird assumption: I actually liked Fubuki even before the anime aired, hence why I never was bothered by the fact she was announced as the MC, and got even pleasantly surprised how her growth was smooth with proper shortcomings at that. This is exactly why this sudden drama annoyed me a lot because it felt out of place.

Sheba
2015-03-05, 10:13
TTK who picked Fubuki as starter ship here, I liked her too. I did feel bad when I left her on the sidelines when I got Shigure and Poi to K2. Yukikaze and Shimakaze were on exped duty until AL/MI gave Beaver a chance to shine. I used Fubuki a bit in Operation Kon then actually worked my ass off to get her to K2 when Winter 2015 event was announced. INTENSE GRINDING IN 4-3. Now she is also a regular when I attempt 3-5 for that medal.

chaosprophet
2015-03-05, 10:55
Anyway, which fleet does Fubuki belong to after this ep? The same fleet with Mutsuki?

At the moment she isn't assigned to any fleet. She will likely be assigned to one after the remodel.

Sheba
2015-03-05, 11:05
Just to be sure, did I hear right that her remodel is actually her second?

Klashikari
2015-03-05, 11:10
No, Nagato said "改に成れ", not "改二成れ" as the latter doesn't make sense without the に particle for 成る (in that case, it should have been 改二に成, "kai ni ni nare").

That said, it doesn't mean anything except that she ordered Fubuki to remodel, which doesn't specificy if it is the first or the second remodel.
In fact, "kai ni" is never mentioned in the anime except in the title. 改装 (kaisou, remodelling) and 大規模改装 (daikibokaisou, major remodelling) were used through the episode.

zero7090
2015-03-05, 11:10
I can pretty much see the next ep ending

http://i.imgur.com/Fuz0smE.jpg

Tactics
2015-03-05, 11:13
I can pretty much see the next ep ending

http://i.imgur.com/Fuz0smE.jpg

Exactly what crossing my mind once I heard Admiral is missing after Abyssals attack. LOL.

:heh:

The Green One
2015-03-05, 11:19
The admiral is the true WMD of the naval base. :heh:

Sheba
2015-03-05, 11:19
I can hear Kongou going SHIT if it actually happens.

Benigmatica
2015-03-05, 11:20
This episode sure needs some Pokemon music, especially the "remodeling" part!

On the other hand, I'm questioning on whether the admiral gone senile or he's just over-confident. Whatever his condition may be, the fact that placing most of the fleet girls to Hotel Yamato costs him dearly!

Damn, I wanna say that it was a dumb move for the admiral to move his fleet closer to the MO island, but the the damage has already been done!

Klashikari
2015-03-05, 11:26
This episode sure needs some Pokemon music, especially the "remodeling" part!

On the other hand, I'm questioning on whether the admiral gone senile or he's just over-confident. Whatever his condition may be, the fact that placing most of the fleet girls to Hotel Yamato costs him dearly!

Damn, I wanna say that it was a dumb move for the admiral to move his fleet closer to the MO island, but the the damage has already been done!
Actually, all their operations were done so they could expand their territory towards MO island.
In order to hold out the front line, it is necessary that the main force is ready to be deployed, hence why they were displaced to Truk island..

That said, it isn't like he foolishly sent everyone to Truk: some Kanmusu were still at the base during the attack.
It is just that this kind of brutal aerial raid was very unlikely, especially that it was an independant action from a single enemy unit.

blitz1/2
2015-03-05, 11:34
I can pretty much see the next ep ending

http://i.imgur.com/Fuz0smE.jpg

Sounds like the true end.

Sheba
2015-03-05, 11:39
One-eyed Wolly want some Fubuki.

Ithekro
2015-03-05, 13:33
Somehow I get the feeling the rebuild was unseen so that the concept is a known for us, but we don't see it until it gets done to Fubuki.

Estavali
2015-03-05, 16:16
You mean Fubuki getting the ring :D I mean, why not? We're already seeing so many mechanics from the game, right? I would be ok with something more on the hear-warming side, like Nanoha did.

This requires an active TTK as well as a developed relationship in which both parties show romantic interest in each other. Both which are missing in this anime, so, no, please don't :heh:

Seriously if there's anyone that deserves the ring, it's Kongou =3

As a side note, Fubuki's fandom with Akagi could be downtoned a notch. Not that I mind it that much but it's getting repetitive.

I would like to have a bit more bonding between her and Kongou =3. Fubuki might be so infatuated with Akagi but imho her real big-sister character is actually Kongou =3. It seems to me that Kongou is the only one so far that Fubuki feels comfortable enough to share her more fragile moments =3. Of course it could just be that she always bump into Kongou whenever she needs a hug =3

That said, I don't mind a Kongou hug myself =3. Ehem.

We have speculated about how she would be affected in the event that Akagi dies in battle, but imho it would, or should, be Kongou's death who would hit far closer to home, should that happen.

From a gameplay pov, how many TTK still used their starters as part of their main fleet as soon as Poi, Shigure hit Kai Ni, or have landed Yukikaze or Shimakaze as drop or lucky ship bulding?

*looks at the level 47 Inazuma in his expedition fleet*

Me: Nope, not me =3

*Inazuma stands behind me with an anchor*

Inazuma(?): NANO DEATH

Going to ditto Seiha's post as well as adding additional points:

If Fubuki had that drama way earlier (like, ep4-5) and BEFORE being promoted to Flagship position of the Mobile Squadron, I wouldn't complain either.

The context and the execution were extremely poor in that department, even moreso after what she went through with Zuikaga antics, and Yamato.

Estavali's explanations could make sense if this situation was set earlier in the series. However, I can't buy that explanation either, simply because there was no implication that Fubuki had such strong inferiority complex to the point she would despair in such fashion. At least, not after all the experience and efforts she went through, while still doubting about her worth.
Nevermind the awkward attempt to build drama by omitting the reason of her forced return, it is really all the careful progression leaping backwards all of a sudden that bothered me a lot.

I'm not saying this episode was a disaster, and I would be lying if I say I didn't have any expectations. However, letting aside my disappointment as the anime staff discarded a good opportunity to address remodel in general, Fubuki's characterization and the plot transition were the weakest parts of this episode, hence why I said it was the worst episode to date.
And before people makes weird assumption: I actually liked Fubuki even before the anime aired, hence why I never was bothered by the fact she was announced as the MC, and got even pleasantly surprised how her growth was smooth with proper shortcomings at that. This is exactly why this sudden drama annoyed me a lot because it felt out of place.

I think this depends on how we interpret this episode and reason behind her black mood. If we read it as the product of an ongoing inferiority complex, then, yes, this is no place for it here, not after all that she has done. A person with an inferiority complex would not be able to hold the wildly eccentric Strike Force 5 in place, much less lead it to victory.

However that's not how I read it. From what I see, Fubuki feels that she's being cheated out everything that she deserves. Her "despair" is actually jealousy and indignation over what she saw as a denial of all she has done, all that she has worked so hard for.

It might be still okay if it's just Yuudachi getting her Kai Ni before her ("Well, can't be helped"), or even Yuudachi getting that coveted place in the First Fleet and thus the chance to fight by Akagi's side ("More sense to have her there than me"). I believe the final nail in this coffin is the dissolution the Fifth Fleet, relieving Fubuki of command and sending her away from the front, which she might have interpreted as "You're not needed any more". Would a person who's beaten down by an overwhelming sense of inferiority cry the way she did? I doubt so; those are the tears of someone who is confident of her own contributions but is disappointed that her efforts are not just overlooked but also dismissed without a satisfying explanation. In her mind, she probably asked why the Admiral who had been so encouraging back then, would now be so cruel.

Fubuki's gloom carries an unspoken complaint, that the Admiral is being unfair to her, that after all she has gone through, she deserves better than this supposed humiliation. That's probably why Fubuki is disgusted with that dream of hers. She might have realized that it's a projection of her jealousy, an ugly emotion that also accuses one of her best friends of robbing her.

If you think about it, if the cause of her depression is insecurity, then what happened at harbor during Yuudachi's training would not make much sense. Why would she cheer up after knowing that she's not alone in her diligence and that Yuudachi actually does deserve her power-up? Fubuki had probably realized, perhaps with some shame, her own conceit. Just because she has worked hard doesn't mean the rest haven't; her own achievements doesn't necessary put her above the rest, who themselves would have contributions of their own. Ultimately it boils down to a matter of acceptance; she might not like her orders but at least she no longer feels marginalized because of them.

Wandering Soul
2015-03-05, 16:21
I can pretty much see the next ep ending

http://i.imgur.com/Fuz0smE.jpg
The unexpected ending. One can only wonder how Kongou would react:heh:

bhl88
2015-03-06, 04:40
@Estavali: Yeah I was thinking that too that she was being cheated after working.

Sheba
2015-03-06, 05:11
The unexpected ending. One can only wonder how Kongou would react:heh:

One word, "SHIT!"

Vaans
2015-03-06, 09:17
I find it sweet how Kongou is comforting a crying Fubuki. Like she's always there for her.

Best onee-san

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-06, 12:47
One word, "SHIT!"

I suspect more something like Kaga's reaction. Just a bit more vorpal, AFTER the 'Shit' that is :heh:.

The ones whose reaction I'd REALLY like to see regarding this ending is Mutsuki's...

lfhoule
2015-03-06, 18:15
Just saw the episode, and in terms of historical events the latter part of the episode may have portrayed, I would have to say it not Doolittle's raid by itself, but a combination of Doolittle's raid as well as the early carrier raids that the US Navy had carried out pre-Coral Sea, like USS Enterprise's raid on Kwajalien Feb. 1, 1942, which did a number on that base, which looks like what happened to the naval district. Doolittle's raid didn't do much damage... tho' on of the bombers did damage everyone's favorite "big whale" while she was being converted into a carrier.

Nvis
2015-03-07, 02:22
Ultimately it boils down to a matter of acceptance; she might not like her orders but at least she no longer feels marginalized because of them.

If only she knew the reason she was needed back was to be remodeled.

So they can force a remodel on Fubuki without her glowing first?

Shock after shock after shock is what this episode is about.

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-07, 02:41
If only she knew the reason she was needed back was to be remodeled.

So they can force a remodel on Fubuki without her glowing first?

Shock after shock after shock is what this episode is about.

Its probably not a KaiNi remodel but a normal Kai one, so nothing major, or they are going to grind her up first.

Ithekro
2015-03-07, 03:39
Well there have been two episodes in a row where Fubuki has wante to engage aircraft and couldn't. So KaiNi makes sense if that drasticallly improves her ability to engage aircraft.

ronelm2000
2015-03-07, 04:02
Well there have been two episodes in a row where Fubuki has wante to engage aircraft and couldn't. So KaiNi makes sense if that drasticallly improves her ability to engage aircraft.

I don't play the game; does Fubuki KN actually deal well with Carriers? (and aircraft)

Kakurin
2015-03-07, 04:42
I don't play the game; does Fubuki KN actually deal well with Carriers? (and aircraft)
Fubuki Kai Ni has the third highest AA stat of all DDs with 78, after Akizuki with 116 and Hatsushimo with 79. The latter two aren't in the anime.

Myssa Rei
2015-03-07, 19:12
Take note though, Fubuki can be really lazy even if she's set up for the Air Interception cut-in. Personal experience during the previous event showed me that Shigure had more instances where she cut-in by comparison. Fubuki shoots down more planes however.

Ithekro
2015-03-07, 20:10
Volume of fire over diligence I suppose. Still nothing like the American walls of AA fire.

Saint X
2015-03-08, 01:29
AACI trigger chance is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery random-and the only reliable thing about it is how many planes are going down- and it depends on who triggered it. Akizuki managed to neuter a Wo II and a BWS at the same time and even neutered carrier princess once in the event.

As for the reason why Fubuki needed to go back to base before remodel is that compared to Yuudachi's equipment, which are just modifications of standard equipment, you can see that the 10cm dual mount and the fire director (in her ingame sprite) are probably in the realm of "prototype or experimental equipment (anime-wise)" and thus needed to be equipped at the main base instead of the forward base.

Maybe we can probably hear Nagato saying about prototypes / experiment / new weapons/equipment while equipping Fubuki.

kct
2015-03-08, 19:58
Maybe we can probably hear Nagato saying about prototypes / experiment / new weapons/equipment while equipping Fubuki.

Reppuus for everyone!

(No, screw that WWII 1946 nonsense, Shiden Kai (Nis) is where it is at. Quad 20mm autocannons. *breathing intensifies*)

Ithekro
2015-03-08, 20:46
Going need some upgrading to get those things to fly off a Japanese flight deck. Or to land on them for that matter.

kct
2015-03-08, 21:39
A carrier-capable version of the Shiden Kai was tested on Shinano along with the Raiden. It's only when we talk about any version of the Shinden that things will be pretty dicey due to the layout of the plane.

Ithekro
2015-03-08, 22:27
Armored flight deck would do it. But they only have two of those (Shinano and Taihou)

LoweGear
2015-03-08, 23:32
Estavali's explanations could make sense if this situation was set earlier in the series.

Actually Estavali's explanations can only really work AFTER everything she's gone through: basically, when she's already done a lot of noteworthy things. Because she feels that she's accomplished a lot of things to be commended for (and she even did get commended by her idol Akagi), the fact that their ultimate authority suddenly disbanded her fleet and had her return to the Naval District away from the front lines is a massive blow to her self-esteem, as if Command decided that all of her accomplishments were nothing. A person with low self-esteem who has no accomplishments to their name wouldn't think anything of being thought of as useless since they don't have anything to be prideful of, but said person who has done everything to make a name for themselves and have done a lot suddenly have their hard-earned accomplishments marginalized would feel like life suddenly just up and spat on their efforts. Their accomplishments are their pride, the reason that they can feel that they can feel like they're worth something, and so having said accomplishments be apparently dismissed is painful.

It's the method in which Command did it which makes it painful: they had to dissolve Mobile Group 5, which up to that point had been Fubuki's fleet. Being the flagship of Mobile Group 5 means that their accomplishments are more or less Fubuki's as well, and thus it is the symbol of all the work that Fubuki put in.

Basically, by disbanding Mobile Group 5, it's like Command is saying "your efforts with the group are worthless, we don't need you". Well, not as harsh as that, but it would certainly feel like that. This is something Fubuki cannot feel if it happened any earlier in the series.

Klashikari
2015-03-09, 12:55
However that's not how I read it. From what I see, Fubuki feels that she's being cheated out everything that she deserves. Her "despair" is actually jealousy and indignation over what she saw as a denial of all she has done, all that she has worked so hard for.The real problem I have with this interpretation is that it actually requires Fubuki to be jealous to begin with or at least envious towards other kanmusu.
I'm not saying Fubuki has to remain pure and righteous from start to finish, but thus far, Fubuki always has been portrayed as a girl who is insecure about herself but tries hard to compensate her shortcomings with training and so forth.

She aspired to be Akagi's escort, but aside when Mutsuki and Yuudachi told her about their new assigned fleet, she didn't show anything that could be relatable with a tendency of envying other people.
She is de facto an hardworker, and not once she ever complained or cursed other kanmusu for being "better than her". She is your usual humble character who prefers to change herself instead of changing the world.

That's the very reason why her reaction towards Yuudachi's promotion then her whining afterwards didn't sink (no pun intended) in well with me.

But beyond her immedate descent to despair, it was also the presentation and the timing of this drama that felt very obnoxious to me, considering how the story progressed thus far. We already went through with Fubuki being a greenhorn, and being promoted to the flagship position can't be just a fluke, but the result of her hard work. Everything wasn't nice and dandy and she did got the short end of a stick a times, but still moved on.

That's why it doesn't make sense for the series to pretend that "maybe the admiral demoted her because she screwed up". Narrative wise, we know it is untrue and it is of course proved afterwards. But in term of presentation, the premise that she might have been demoted is a ludicrous plot point to me.

From that, it is just a matter of perspective, but I really had hard time to stomach that.
Basically, by disbanding Mobile Group 5, it's like Command is saying "your efforts with the group are worthless, we don't need you". Well, not as harsh as that, but it would certainly feel like that. This is something Fubuki cannot feel if it happened any earlier in the series.I don't pretend to have a full understanding of her psyche, and context etc would make such claim ludicrous anyway.
That said, I think this train of thought is rather too convenient for the purpose of the drama exactly because her efforts were already acknowledged to begin with.

Being promoted to a Mobile squadron is one thing, but being voted as the flagship by your peers and seniors, THEN being validated by the commander in chief... Everything thus far has been properly credited to her, moreso that nothing in the present would negate such achievements.
Hell, even after Kaga got torpedo-ed hard, the admiral didn't blame her or anything and Nagato even praised her.
So really, it is quite difficult to relate with a possible "what i've done was useless to begin with" since the achievements were done, and no one stated they were useless.
If Nagato said something like "Mobile Squadron Five performances are not acceptable anymore" or something, I would buy that. But it is exactly after everything she went through that this train of thought is invalid in my eyes, since there is nothing that would make one to jump to the conclusion "well, it sucked".

If the fleet disband occured right after their sortie against the Chi-class, I wouldn't complain much about Fubuki dismay. But after the Flagship promotion etc? Color me perplexed.

Well, it isn't like I need to be convinced or I need to convince you either. I'm just giving explanations why it just doesn't cut it for me.

-------

Didn't mean to land another "negative blow", but after watching this episode a second time, I guess it is the usual "something went wrong with the production".


I've suspected something to be amiss upon my first watch, but it was quite obvious on the second time...

Nagato's speech time:
https://i.imgur.com/cObJqeDl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/cObJqeD.jpg)

In this very first picture, we can deduce most Kanmusu's positions. For sake of avoiding confusion, here is how rows are placed from Nagato's perspective:
First Row: Kirishima, Haruna, Hiei, Kongou, Kaga, Akagi, Souryuu, Hiryuu
Second Row: [...] Nachi, Myoukou, Atago, Takao, Tone, Chikuma
Third Row: [...] Tama, Kuma, Sendai, Jintsuu, Naka

However...
https://i.imgur.com/vSqmCVil.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/vSqmCVi.jpg)

Things aren't looking well:
-Takao is either much shorter than Atago (unlikely), or she is now between the first and second row.
-Likewise, Sendai sisters are no longer on the same row as Kuma and Tama which doesn't make sense in term of perspective with the first picture.

Please note that Mutsuki, Fubuki and Yuudachi are in the same row behind Tama.

Now, things are even more troublesome:
https://i.imgur.com/QRFS06Gl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/QRFS06G.jpg)

This cut confirms that Atago and Takao are supposed to be on the same row, but the previous picture contradicts with this.
What's even more obvious though is that all the carriers are suddenly very close to each other. Kaga and Souryuu were like 2-3 full steps away from Akagi, but they are suddenly next to each other.
Likewise, Tone is now next to Takao, despite Jintsuu could easily step between the two with the second picture.
Speaking of Jintsuu, this picture confirm she and her sisters are behind the heavy cruisers, so on the third row. That said, due to the angle, it should have been Sendai, not Jintsuu. The latter would be hidden by Takao. So either Sendai and Jintsuu swapped pla,ces or the 3 sisters moved even more on their right.

And now the coup de grace:
https://i.imgur.com/qThFiXBl.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/qThFiXB.jpg)

For unknown reasons, Sendai, Jintsuu and Naka are IN FRONT of Tama and Kuma. They literally swapped places with Myoukou, Atago and Takao.
Meanwhile, Yuudachi is steps away from Fubuki, almost as if she was in the row BEHIND her.


I wish they could do some proper check...

Nvis
2015-03-09, 13:04
I think you're being too picky.

As long as the girls look good, don't give a damn about their placement.

Klashikari
2015-03-09, 13:08
I don't think it is being picky for exposing the obvious consistency issues of the series.
If it was a well animated sequence that would make animators lose track of certain details like smoke, bullets etc, I wouldn't mind much.

The thing is that, considering the value of the franchise here, and yet the very static presentation of it, it is just a downer to see such obvious production mishaps. Whereas I can sort of "buy" what happened in ep6 to a certain extent, it is clearly not the case in ep7 and 9.

Frankly, it is very same kind of mistakes that only minor franchise could get a free pass, even moreso since these cuts are nothing but static characters.

Marina2
2015-03-09, 13:31
Real life + Game explanation of anime teitoku's behavior.

>>> Yeah! I got Fubuki from sortie (Ep.1)

>>> Let send her to fight to gain some lv. so I can turn her to kai ni and put her in my main fleet (Carrier 1div) (Ep.2-4)

>>> Ok, need to speed up. I will put her as flagship so she can get to her Kai ni faster (Ep.5-8)

>>> Wait what?? Yuudachi can become Kai ni now??? (Ep.9)

>>>> *Remodel Yuudachi* Wow she looks so much better! Sorry Fubuki, I have sold my soul to the demon of solomon. I will put you in the dock forever. (Ep.9)

>>>> What is that?? Wo-class Flagship Kai!!!!!??? *got Air Denial* NOOOOOOO!!! Fubuki, I'm sorry please become kai ni for me! I need your AA-cut-in. (Ep.9)



kuso teitoku indeed.

risingstar3110
2015-03-09, 21:44
I don't think it is being picky for exposing the obvious consistency issues of the series.
If it was a well animated sequence that would make animators lose track of certain details like smoke, bullets etc, I wouldn't mind much.

The thing is that, considering the value of the franchise here, and yet the very static presentation of it, it is just a downer to see such obvious production mishaps. Whereas I can sort of "buy" what happened in ep6 to a certain extent, it is clearly not the case in ep7 and 9.

Frankly, it is very same kind of mistakes that only minor franchise could get a free pass, even moreso since these cuts are nothing but static characters.
Agree here, I means considering fandom collection tends to be really detail on how perfect their collected goods are (not only anime fans, fans of any hobbies will tell you the same thing), it will seriously affect the name of the franchise and fans' desires to collect that goods it if it contains some obvious flaws. And yes the more devoting a fan of franchise is, the more attentive-to-detail (or nitpicking if you like to call it) he/she will be.

Of course there is still the fix over BD release, and that would be what really matter nowadays. Let's just hope they will do it properly. The PV was almost flawless so i think they are capable of that (especially if they want have good reputationon their brand). Haven't checked Kyoani recently, but their brand was seriously boosted after fans showed how attentive-to-detail the Haruhi BD release is back at the day. Same to SHAFT

Triple_R
2015-03-09, 23:09
I just caught back up on this show. The show has maintained a pretty good balance of action, comedy, and SoL.

For this episode in particular, I really like Yuudachi's upgrade. She looked cute before, but now she looks impressive. Leaves me wondering what Fubuki will look like after her coming upgrade... Leaving viewers with such a teasing thought was a great way to end the episode.

As for the discussion on Fubuki's distress in this episode...


From what I see, Fubuki feels that she's being cheated out everything that she deserves. Her "despair" is actually jealousy and indignation over what she saw as a denial of all she has done, all that she has worked so hard for.

It might be still okay if it's just Yuudachi getting her Kai Ni before her ("Well, can't be helped"), or even Yuudachi getting that coveted place in the First Fleet and thus the chance to fight by Akagi's side ("More sense to have her there than me"). I believe the final nail in this coffin is the dissolution the Fifth Fleet, relieving Fubuki of command and sending her away from the front, which she might have interpreted as "You're not needed any more". Would a person who's beaten down by an overwhelming sense of inferiority cry the way she did? I doubt so; those are the tears of someone who is confident of her own contributions but is disappointed that her efforts are not just overlooked but also dismissed without a satisfying explanation. In her mind, she probably asked why the Admiral who had been so encouraging back then, would now be so cruel.

Fubuki's gloom carries an unspoken complaint, that the Admiral is being unfair to her, that after all she has gone through, she deserves better than this supposed humiliation. That's probably why Fubuki is disgusted with that dream of hers. She might have realized that it's a projection of her jealousy, an ugly emotion that also accuses one of her best friends of robbing her.

If you think about it, if the cause of her depression is insecurity, then what happened at harbor during Yuudachi's training would not make much sense. Why would she cheer up after knowing that she's not alone in her diligence and that Yuudachi actually does deserve her power-up? Fubuki had probably realized, perhaps with some shame, her own conceit. Just because she has worked hard doesn't mean the rest haven't; her own achievements doesn't necessary put her above the rest, who themselves would have contributions of their own. Ultimately it boils down to a matter of acceptance; she might not like her orders but at least she no longer feels marginalized because of them.

Very well-said. That's pretty much my take as well.

I didn't get the impression of Fubuki feeling inferior.

Quite the contrary - What I saw was someone who has been performing very well, and who knows that she's been performing very well, and so the events of this episode naturally leave her going "Why?!"

Fubuki's a nice girl who does a good job of sounding humble, but I'm sure deep down she realizes she's been doing a very good job. So the events of this episode simply leave her bewildered and distressed, as I think they would most people in her circumstances.

Also, it's important to realize just how harsh the double-whammy is here. Not only does Yuudachi get to do exactly what Fubuki would want to do (get upgraded and get promoted to the main fleet), but at the same time, Fubuki feels like she's losing a source of pride and proof of accomplishment - Being the flagship of the Fifth Fleet.

That doesn't remove what she's already accomplished, but then Fubuki is young, and (mostly) lives in the moment. Her current status is important, for while her accomplishments thus far have been very nice, it's not like she's ready to call it a career, if you catch my drift. She wants to keep doing well, and keep being in a place of prominence. Feeling like she's losing that will negatively impact her regardless of how she feels about her accomplishments to date.

LoweGear
2015-03-09, 23:37
Being promoted to a Mobile squadron is one thing, but being voted as the flagship by your peers and seniors, THEN being validated by the commander in chief... Everything thus far has been properly credited to her, moreso that nothing in the present would negate such achievements.
Hell, even after Kaga got torpedo-ed hard, the admiral didn't blame her or anything and Nagato even praised her.
So really, it is quite difficult to relate with a possible "what i've done was useless to begin with" since the achievements were done, and no one stated they were useless.
If Nagato said something like "Mobile Squadron Five performances are not acceptable anymore" or something, I would buy that. But it is exactly after everything she went through that this train of thought is invalid in my eyes, since there is nothing that would make one to jump to the conclusion "well, it sucked".

If the fleet disband occured right after their sortie against the Chi-class, I wouldn't complain much about Fubuki dismay. But after the Flagship promotion etc? Color me perplexed.

Well, it isn't like I need to be convinced or I need to convince you either. I'm just giving explanations why it just doesn't cut it for me.


From what I gather, the thing about people (?) like Fubuki is that being acknowledged for their efforts actually isn't enough. They can praise you all they want for your prior accomplishments and what not, and in fact you can feel a sense of vindication at what you've done. However, Fubuki is not the kind of person who is satisfied simply with having laurels. She is the kind who has to get MORE, who feels that she has to keep going, to keep accomplishing great things (a minor glimpse of this can be seen from Fubuki's reaction to Mutsuki's suggestion about Akagi's headpats).

At the same time, her prior accomplishments being important are exactly what's keeping up her self-esteem, the support to a girl who once had the displeasure of being a clumsy girl with no skill. Undermine the importance of her past accomplishments, of all that she's done, and her entire self-esteem goes broke, which is exactly what happened.

Basically speaking, Fubuki needs those accomplishments to vindicate herself, and so has to keep working hard to achieve such things, like propping up more foundations to keep her shaky house steady. However, if the accomplishments she feels proud of is not appreciated and even undermined in such a manner, then at that point she'd feel that perhaps her hard work would never be enough.

Fubuki isn't the kind of person who can support their self-esteem simply by knowing that they've accomplished something great and sustain herself off that knowledge. Her self-esteem is not one where she can just pile up all her accomplishments and it just constantly rises, she needs her vindication to keep it from going down. She needs to constantly reaffirm herself and her hard work to keep herself going in life.

Granted, some of what I described seems a bit extreme, but the general gist is more or less there.

Edit: Shame there's no dedicated OC/Fanfic section for Kancolle, would've shared that FSN x KC story I'm currently writing...

Estavali
2015-03-10, 09:38
From what I gather, the thing about people (?) like Fubuki is that being acknowledged for their efforts actually isn't enough. They can praise you all they want for your prior accomplishments and what not, and in fact you can feel a sense of vindication at what you've done. However, Fubuki is not the kind of person who is satisfied simply with having laurels. She is the kind who has to get MORE, who feels that she has to keep going, to keep accomplishing great things (a minor glimpse of this can be seen from Fubuki's reaction to Mutsuki's suggestion about Akagi's headpats).

At the same time, her prior accomplishments being important are exactly what's keeping up her self-esteem, the support to a girl who once had the displeasure of being a clumsy girl with no skill. Undermine the importance of her past accomplishments, of all that she's done, and her entire self-esteem goes broke, which is exactly what happened.

Basically speaking, Fubuki needs those accomplishments to vindicate herself, and so has to keep working hard to achieve such things, like propping up more foundations to keep her shaky house steady. However, if the accomplishments she feels proud of is not appreciated and even undermined in such a manner, then at that point she'd feel that perhaps her hard work would never be enough.

Fubuki isn't the kind of person who can support their self-esteem simply by knowing that they've accomplished something great and sustain herself off that knowledge. Her self-esteem is not one where she can just pile up all her accomplishments and it just constantly rises, she needs her vindication to keep it from going down. She needs to constantly reaffirm herself and her hard work to keep herself going in life.

Granted, some of what I described seems a bit extreme, but the general gist is more or less there.

Well said, Lowe =3.

Another reason, I think, why she pushes herself so is to repay the expectations placed on her. Both the Admiral and Akagi had showed faith in her even during her ugly duckling days and I think in her gratitude, she might want to prove them right =3

Edit: Shame there's no dedicated OC/Fanfic section for Kancolle, would've shared that FSN x KC story I'm currently writing...

Suggest for one? =3