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Klashikari
2015-03-25, 11:45
Welcome to the Anime Sequel Discussion thread for KanColle.

The final episode of the TV series has revealed that the production of a sequel for the anime series has been decided.

As more information will probably be disclosed later, please use this thread to discuss about your expectations for the sequel.
Please note I used the term "sequel" and not season 2 or anything because there isn't any indication if the sequel will be a second season or a movie.

Again, the general discussion guidelines still apply. Also please do not use this thread to discuss about the original TV series..

refrain
2015-03-25, 11:45
Well at least season 2 is confirmed

Kakurin
2015-03-25, 11:51
is the indication going towards a movie or a second season?

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 12:00
They used 続編制作決定, which is a bit sketchy since the next medium will be a sequel to the anime series, but there is nothing that indicates clearly its form. 製作 is vague as it can be translated as "production/creation".

Considering how it went, it is most likely a second series. I just hope the director will be changed and/or the latter actually learn from his mistakes.

S2.
http://dengekionline.com/elem/000/001/028/1028143/
The "第二回" refers to a second event like they back last year, which was promoting the game and the anime production. It doesn't confirm it will be a second season which should be 第二期.

Miraluka
2015-03-25, 12:04
Someone seriously to change the director yo make S2 work.


And please, no more Fubuki, pretty please!!!

Verisimilitude
2015-03-25, 12:16
They used 続編制作決定, which is a bit sketchy since the next medium will be a sequel to the anime series, but there is nothing that indicates clearly its form. 製作 is vague as it can be translated as "production/creation".

Considering how it went, it is most likely a second series. I just hope the director will be changed and/or the latter actually learn from his mistakes.


The "第二回" refers to a second event like they back last year, which was promoting the game and the anime production. It doesn't confirm it will be a second season which should be 第二期.

Well 制作 means to make or to manufacture (for example 制作家具 is to make furniture) so it's a verb, not a noun. So I'd interpret it as 続編 (sequel) 制作 (to make) 决定 (decided); hence the decision to make a sequel has been decided.

Sheba
2015-03-25, 12:17
I dont care who is the main character of S2, any of the starter ships will do, as long as we get the Germans, the submarines, more Shigure, Beaver and the rest of the Kagerou, the Agano and Maya + Choukai.

cloud04
2015-03-25, 12:19
I dont care who is the main character of S2, any of the starter ships will do, as long as we get the Germans, the submarines, more Shigure, Beaver and the rest of the Kagerou, the Agano and Maya + Choukai.

aka get the rest of the fleet XD
so plans for s2 would be around fall?

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 12:33
I dont care who is the main character of S2, any of the starter ships will do, as long as we get the Germans, the submarines, more Shigure, Beaver and the rest of the Kagerou, the Agano and Maya + Choukai.
-Germans would be seen as some favoritism compared to many kanmusu who were there way before these. I really don't think it is a good idea.

-I really think they deliberately avoided SS because 1) it would force them to animate underwater fights 2) it would be difficult to show them launching several torpedoes except Hachi with her books and Shioi.

Frankly, there is no need for more characters, although I agree they should make some rotation.
What they really have to do:
-Actually give more thoughts to the scenario and directing
-work more on the pacing issues
-less "game gimmicks", particularly the catch phrases which are often too intrusive. This episode took the cake, more than Hibiki in the previous episodes.

RRW
2015-03-25, 12:43
Just remove all the drama and make cute girl doing cute thing. I mean why do they even have to forced hall-assed drama?

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 12:49
Just remove all the drama and make cute girl doing cute thing. I mean why do they even have to forced hall-assed drama?
It isn't like it is impossible to have tension and serious stuff with more relaxing parts. Some series did the trick quite well already.
Also, just focusing on the cute girls is a bit detrimental since the franchise is more than just moe girls.

But yeah, they should really do something about that badly written/directed drama of the second half.

Marina2
2015-03-25, 12:54
Reboot the series or do alternate universe story might be better than continue from the end of SS1.

They should focus more on SOL because it seems to be what they are good at. (Ep.6, for example)

Sheba
2015-03-25, 12:57
I am more for a different focus on a different set of characters, through the eyes of a different starter ship. Also, all that bitching against Fubuki is blown out of proportion.

RRW
2015-03-25, 13:01
It isn't like it is impossible to have tension and serious stuff with more relaxing parts. Some series did the trick quite well already.
Also, just focusing on the cute girls is a bit detrimental since the franchise is more than just moe girls.

But yeah, they should really do something about that badly written/directed drama of the second half.

I dont mind some drama. But at least make it consistent. Not just randomly drop "drama bomb" and simply forget about it.

Feel like the anime production is simply "listing what kancolle anime should have" like "Episode dedicated to certain ship", "ship sunk episode", "kai ni episode", etc. But they seem dont care how each episode is connected to each other.

Then again is pretty clear they make the anime for marketing.

Jackster
2015-03-25, 13:16
Reboot the series or do alternate universe story might be better than continue from the end of SS1.

They should focus more on SOL because it seems to be what they are good at. (Ep.6, for example)
I counld't agree more with that.
Especially with the Kisaragi hint and the Hime evolution we have even more quastions then answers about the abysals.

About the episode itself, that was just... how to put it... meh.
0 tension, the KTKM/Ooi Scene which was just so out of place/character.
Oh and that guy we haven't really seen is back... who cares...

Only real good part was Nagato kicking some butt.
Two things they could improve with a 2nd season would be:
1. SHOW THE DAMN ADMIRAL.
2. How about 2 Navel Bases with 2 different fleets and different admirals.

This way they could also divide the Characters up a bit better and at the end have a battle were all have to work together.

Miraluka
2015-03-25, 13:22


Again.

They could learn A LOT from Idol master franchise.

Sheba
2015-03-25, 13:23
Totally agreed on the Admiral part. OTOH, Two, male and female, like in that Shimakaze manga, would be just wishful thinking on my part.

cloud04
2015-03-25, 13:37
but a 2 base back and forth in a 12 epi is just asking for cutting corners

Sheba
2015-03-25, 13:42
Thats why I said "wishful thinking".

Kakurin
2015-03-25, 13:44
They could learn A LOT from Idol master franchise.
If you already want to learn from an idol franchise, please learn from Love Live S2 instead. :heh:

This last episode in some ways reflects the faults that have plagued the anime overall. The two main points sticking out for me - that have to be addressed in the second season - are:

1) Questionable pacing and directing. For this episode it's specifically the conversations in the midst of the battle that just seem out of place. They are supposed to be in the heat of battle, yet they spend minutes on chatting, robbing the battle of much tension.

2) Questionable focus on subcharacters. The cherry on top of the cake of the pacing in this episode was the act between Kitakami and Ōi that was just so out of place. I fail to understand the appeal of repeating their act in every single episode. Any comedic effect their dynamic has was long worn out, yet they continued to get their spotlight episode after episode. Would've worked better from my perspective if they had a small core group built around Fubuki with different subcharacters getting their due from episode to episode.

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-25, 14:09
Frankly, there is no need for more characters, although I agree they should make some rotation.
What they really have to do:
-Actually give more thoughts to the scenario and directing
-work more on the pacing issues
-less "game gimmicks", particularly the catch phrases which are often too intrusive. This episode took the cake, more than Hibiki in the previous episodes.

Want to add this point:

- Quality control (teleports vanishing ships and so on)

Miraluka
2015-03-25, 14:14
@Kakurin-san

I said idolmaster because it's a successful multimedia franchise based on a a game which is makes this series so similar and also about the lots of characters and the ship/idol relationship with their Admiral/Producer.

Ithekro
2015-03-25, 14:22
Might it be the general overuse in game of the torpedo cruisers for victory that caused them to be in every episode?

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 14:49
@Kakurin-san

I said idolmaster because it's a successful multimedia franchise based on a a game which is makes this series so similar and also about the lots of characters and the ship/idol relationship with their Admiral/Producer.
You can't expect them to use the same formula as idolmaster. It is actually nonsensical considering Idolmaster (and Love Live) are very successful thanks to its genre, involving idols which is the reason why they can afford doing lives with the seiyuu who aren't idols to begin with.

You can't just toss girls doing "cute stuff" with Kancolle because it just doesn't have such appeal.

Might it be the general overuse in game of the torpedo cruisers for victory that caused them to be in every episode?I really doubt that. Really, the vast majority of KTKM and Ooi screentime is their yuri antics and VERY rarely their battle prowess. This is why it is so tiring to see them every damn episode after the second-third time.
Unlike the Akatsuki DD, the torpedo cruisers are basically in their own little world with little to no interaction with the rest.

Miraluka
2015-03-25, 15:03
It seems you interpreted my post in a very off way. Even more when I'm one of those anti cg-d-ct( adding the Fubuki's Akagi wanking and Ooi's sheer stupidity).

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 15:06
And what was the meaning of your post? Frankly, mentioning Idolmaster is quite off if you ask me.
I'm not surprised people would prefer a full season similar to episode 6, but that would be quite detrimental considering the franchise itself is more than just cute ships doing cute stuff. Likewise, going all drama/grimdark would be ridiculous as well. The key is to find a balance there, which was obviously not succeeded in the anime starting the second half.

RRW
2015-03-25, 15:20
I can see the reason why they don't have admiral is simply because the want to have better girl on girl dynamic. Adding admiral probably going to make that relationship complicated.

But I agree that they can learn 1 - 2 thing from Cinderella girl. Like try to focus on group of popular girl instead trying to shoehorn as much girl as they can.

Stark700
2015-03-25, 15:43
I don't think it's confirmed yet as a TV series, although may likely. I have mixed thoughts on the show tbh overall so not sure how I feel the franchise getting a sequel.

chaosprophet
2015-03-25, 16:10
I like the idea of more to the anime although I hope they improve in some of the problems I see with first season:

*Focus on a smaller cast and/or have more episodes if they want a bigger cast.
*Have a more serious tone, at least in the part that is supposed to be so, like the battles.
*Less fanservice for the gamers and more establishing their own story, explaining things about the universe for example.
*Either have the admiral be an actual characters or take him out.

This last point can be problematic as it would be strange if they had him appear out of nowhere, but then the next animation could happen in a different base where some of the girls from season 1 got transferred to (in case they don't want to focus on completely new characters).

I can see the reason why they don't have admiral is simply because the want to have better girl on girl dynamic. Adding admiral probably going to make that relationship complicated.

In that case, rather than having an admiral, they could have Nagato to be the commander instead (which for the anime watchers she actually was for a good part of the season). But having the admiral being off screen but with Kongou and other girls talking about him often, the last few episodes strategy being all about his plans, it just don't work, in my opinion.

Ithekro
2015-03-25, 16:24
I would assume the sequel would be a tie-in for the next KanColle game coming out later this year.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 17:00
Bring back the Teitoku, he got his internet connection back up, reaped the event awards. I demand we see his face! and voiced by a good seiyuu like Jouji Nakata!

Actually, bring in multiple Teitokus, for different naval bases.

Here's my requirements

1. voiced by Akira Ishida for troll Teitoku
2. Jouji is serious, badass teitoku
3. Female ummm...I'll leave it to you.

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-25, 17:23
Bring back the Teitoku, he got his internet connection back up, reaped the event awards. I demand we see his face! and voiced by a good seiyuu like Jouji Nakata!

Actually, bring in multiple Teitokus, for different naval bases.

Here's my requirements

1. voiced by Akira Ishida for troll Teitoku
2. Jouji is serious, badass teitoku
3. Female ummm...I'll leave it to you.

My vote goes to Norio Wakamoto.
Because after trolling us with the TTK''s half existance, TTK should better have a huge presence after surviving that boot bomb to the head, if he ever apppeares.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 17:28
My vote goes to Norio Wakamoto.
Because after trolling us with the TTK''s half existance, TTK should better have a huge presence after surviving that boot bomb to the head, if he ever apppeares.

Nope, Norio is grand Admiral, he commands the others.

Academus
2015-03-25, 17:35
The sensible thing to do would be to abandon this total train wreck a la Xenoglossia, pretend it never exists, and adapt the official 4 koma into anime. But then they aren't known to be sensible.

Oh and remind me what/who Xenoglossia and Kancolle anime have in common.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 17:42
The sensible thing to do would be to abandon this total train wreck a la Xenoglossia, pretend it never exists, and adapt the official 4 koma into anime. But then they aren't known to be sensible.

Oh and remind me what/who Xenoglossia and Kancolle anime have in common.

I kind of liked the idols as being mechas though.

Academus
2015-03-25, 18:07
I kind of liked the idols as being mechas though.

Idols operating mechas, by itself, is fine. Everyone rejoiced to see the Arcadia segment in IM@S ep.15. The problem with Xenoglossia, at least from my PoV, is the scriptwriter saw it fit to put characters with pre-established backgrounds into an entirely different role and world, with little resemblance beyond names and visuals, which created extremely strong dissonance in viewers' mind. Which brings me back to Kancolle anime. We got characters that suffered from flanderization. Mechanics got twisted. They insert drama for drama sake. Other than characters and the use of some proper nouns, Kancolle anime bears no resemblance to Kancolle the game that I play.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 18:09
Idols operating mechas, by itself, is fine. Everyone rejoiced to see the Arcadia segment in IM@S ep.15. The problem with Xenoglossia, at least from my PoV, is the scriptwriter saw it fit to put characters with pre-established backgrounds into an entirely different role and world, with little resemblance beyond names and visuals, which created extremely strong dissonance in viewers' mind. Which brings me back to Kancolle anime. We got characters that suffered from flanderization. Mechanics got twisted. They insert drama for drama sake. Other than characters and the use of some proper nouns, Kancolle anime bears no resemblance to Kancolle the game that I play.

And thats why we needed the Teitoku.

Azuma Denton
2015-03-25, 18:12
Second season?
Please just make a 3 minute anime based on Fubuki Ganbarimasu manga instead...

chaosprophet
2015-03-25, 18:19
Idols operating mechas, by itself, is fine. Everyone rejoiced to see the Arcadia segment in IM@S ep.15. The problem with Xenoglossia, at least from my PoV, is the scriptwriter saw it fit to put characters with pre-established backgrounds into an entirely different role and world, with little resemblance beyond names and visuals, which created extremely strong dissonance in viewers' mind. Which brings me back to Kancolle anime. We got characters that suffered from flanderization. Mechanics got twisted. They insert drama for drama sake. Other than characters and the use of some proper nouns, Kancolle anime bears no resemblance to Kancolle the game that I play.

Did you really wanted the anime to resemble the gameplay of the game more than it did? They trying to do that was a negative point for me. I see that as the reasoning behind bad choices like the Teitoku being there but not appearing.

Academus
2015-03-25, 18:27
And thats why we needed the Teitoku.

We need a scriptwriter who actually played the game and not too creative by half. I don't want you to rub your original storyline in my face every 30 seconds, especially when your plot is neither novel nor good. I'll go so far as to say Kancolle anime doesn't need a plot. The scriptwriters need to stop pretending that they got a serious story to tell, because it is very obvious by now that they are incapable of pulling it off. The show would benefit immensely if the Kisaragi siniking plot were dropped entirely.

Did you really wanted the anime to resemble the gameplay of the game more than it did? They trying to do that was a negative point for me. I see that as the reasoning behind bad choices like the Teitoku being there but not appearing.

My point is less about literal resemblance eg a faceless figure sitting behind a desk, and more about resemblance of the logic within the game. I don't want to see a Teitoku that sits there and do nothing. Imagine youself as a Teitoku inside the game. You will be there to oversee equipment development, and the result depends on the recipe you use; you will be there to welcome your fleets home, then resupply and repair them; you are fully responsible for any ship lost, or put it in the other way, you are fully capable of making sure not a single ship sinks. What you do ingame decides what you get out of it. Compare that with what we see in the anime. His existence and disappearance doesn't matter at all. His action, if there's any, doesn't affect outcome in the same way your action would affect the outcome in game. That's what I mean by dissonance: the character they want to me to invest in and immerse in, doesn't to things that I would have done, nor produced the results that I would expect.

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 18:33
The scenario wasn't the weak point, but the storyboard/screenplay imho.
If we consider the overall plot as "Kanmusu confronting the Abyssals over few islands to regain the area", it isn't bad by itself.
The problem is how the director pretty much had to wreck things with a convulated approach which completely turn the pacing upside down.

I dare say the whole drama with Kisaragi wasn't half bad (but badly handled as all death flags were stacked in ep3). However, Fubuki's drama in the second half and the whole Midway stuff were the biggest issue in there.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 18:33
We need a scriptwriter who actually played the game and not too creative by half. I don't want you to rub your original storyline in my face every 30 seconds, especially when your plot is neither novel nor good. I'll go so far as to say Kancolle anime doesn't need a plot. The scriptwriters need to stop pretending that they got a serious story to tell, because it is very obvious by now that they are incapable of pulling it off. The show would benefit immensely if the Kisaragi siniking plot were dropped entirely.

About Kisaragi's sinking being necessary, I am still half debating on that. On one hand, it increases the serious atmosphere which is fine, seeing the first few seconds of the show and all. But the other hand, going by gameplay mechanics and comparing them to in game, only a kuso teitoku would allow even ONE shipgirl to sink. But HELL no if it's ALL slice of life and yuri schematics.

Another thing that they can work on, is NOT to have a central character but rather focusing on DIFFERENT ship girls rather than Fubuki for most of the plot, therefore you satisfy the fans who don't have Fubuki/hate Fubuki and have others share in the spotlight.

chaosprophet
2015-03-25, 18:43
When talking about the story board, wasn't there an interview people posted before that said the one who came up with the story was actually Tanaka Kensuke, the creator of Kancolle? Something about the director only making a few suggestions around the end of the story regarding what Tanaka presented.

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 18:46
There is no indication how far Tanaka was involved in the anime production, and generally speaking, author and the likes hardly have the time or enough power to meddle with anime production.
Even if Tanaka provided "guidelines", there isn't really any way for him to force them to follow them to a T nor the screenplay would convey the actual perspective.

Of course, it is also possible that Tanaka failed to realize his own ideas were bad since his job isn't about anime production, who knows.

Seihai
2015-03-25, 18:50
But the other hand, going by gameplay mechanics and comparing them to in game, only a kuso teitoku would allow even ONE shipgirl to sink. But HELL no if it's ALL slice of life and yuri schematics.
I'm getting tired of game mechanic references that not only alienate anime viewers but are also not right or at least not proven. If it was possible to simply not allow your girls to sink then the girls' fear towards sinking would be nonsensical.

RRW
2015-03-25, 18:55
I dare say the whole drama with Kisaragi wasn't half bad (but badly handled as all death flags were stacked in ep3). However, Fubuki's drama in the second half and the whole Midway stuff were the biggest issue in there.

The episode itself is not that bad. The biggest problem is why they kill her so early. Then forgot about her until last episode.

That is like really bad composition and pacing failure.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 18:56
I'm getting tired of game mechanic references that not only alienate anime viewers but are also not right or at least not proven. If it was possible to simply not allow your girls to sink then the girls' fear towards sinking would be nonsensical.

It's an anime that's supposed to cater MOSTLY to the game fans, and next, getting heavily damaged I would say is enough to cause enough fear.

Seihai
2015-03-25, 19:09
It's an anime that's supposed to cater MOSTLY to the game fans
Which further underlines the fact anime viewers are being alienated (probably one reason why so few of them can be seen around here) and only means you have to be extra careful to not make anime viewers go "???".

getting heavily damaged I would say is enough to cause enough fear.Well yeah, you have to take heavy damage to sink but in the end it's the sinking that is feared, not the damage itself.

blitz1/2
2015-03-25, 19:16
Which further underlines the fact anime viewers are being alienated (probably one reason why so few of them can be seen around here) and only means you have to be extra careful to not make anime viewers go "???".

Well yeah, you have to take heavy damage to sink but in the end it's the sinking that is feared, not the damage itself.

Why does the opinion of the anime only viewers matter more than the game players? KC is based on a game with ship girls. WIth anime viewers, you can already go ??? at the shinkaisen kan, arrows becoming planes, the bath scenes and well, the buckets is the game mechanics.

That's like saying that in war, you don't need to be afraid of injuries and shrapnel wounds but only need to be afraid of death.

Academus
2015-03-25, 19:17
I'm getting tired of game mechanic references that not only alienate anime viewers but are also not right or at least not proven. If it was possible to simply not allow your girls to sink then the girls' fear towards sinking would be nonsensical.

I share a similar view. I expect the game and the anime to be consistent in the sense that if A leads to B in game, it would be the same in anime as well, and not A leads to C or other nonsense.

And I have to disagree with Klashikari. I believe whoever came up with the story arc of sinking Kisaragi, which I believe are the scriptwriters, must take most of the blame. If we look at each episode by itself, Kancolle anime has some good episodes, and some not so good, just like most other anime. What stinks though, is that the episodes are strung together by the sinking plot which kills immersion, and its existence from ep.3 to ep.12 and beyond constantly reminds you that the anime and the game doesn't share the same world nor logic.

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 19:23
Actually, I believe the fact someone can sink put the anime "farther" from the game, exactly because it makes sense for kanmusu to sink should a war breaks out. Of course, this aspect of the series is not required if the series is solely focused on slice of life and the likes, which I already explained why I found that detrimental.

I don't need gratuitious victims whatsoever, and I also think the way they handled Kisaragi was awkward. However, the fact they can sink give a certain tension when they are engaging a serious fight. In fact, most anime only viewers were suprised that someone died for real as they couldn't take the fights seriously at all prior episode 3.
The whole problem with Kisaragi's fate is that it wasn't built properly and was quickly washed away after episode 4. It is even worse when episode 6 followed up, as it gives the impression the anime staff has no idea what they wanted to do.

That's why I'm on the same page as Seihai: always referring to the game is a burden because it leads to a lot of troubles and nonsensical comments (like how people claimed the admiral was an idiot despite kisaragi's sinking couldn't be his fault anyway).
There is a certain balance to keep so the anime could just make a "reference" instead of directly borrowing a mechanic that doesn't flow well in an anime environment.

That's why few changes like sinking and combat phases were necessary. I don't mind tongue-in-cheek jokes like the "expedition screen" with the akatsuki, but anything beyond that is a very bad idea.
Oh and it would be best if they keep fun times exclusively for casual scenes instead of jumping the shark right in the middle of the most important operation they ever had.

chaosprophet
2015-03-25, 19:24
I share a similar view. I expect the game and the anime to be consistent in the sense that if A leads to B in game, it would be the same in anime as well, and not A leads to C or other nonsense.

And I have to disagree with Klashikari. I believe whoever came up with the story arc of sinking Kisaragi, which I believe are the scriptwriters, must take most of the blame. If we look at each episode by itself, Kancolle anime has some good episodes, and some not so good, just like most other anime. What stinks though, is that the episodes are strung together by the sinking plot which kills immersion, and its existence from ep.3 to ep.12 and beyond constantly reminds you that the anime and the game doesn't share the same world nor logic.

From this info (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=5429709&postcount=122), Kisaragi's sinking would actually come from the game creator.

Seihai
2015-03-25, 19:33
Why does the opinion of the anime only viewers matter more than the game players? KC is based on a game with ship girls. WIth anime viewers, you can already go ??? at the shinkaisen kan, arrows becoming planes, the bath scenes and well, the buckets is the game mechanics.

That's like saying that in war, you don't need to be afraid of injuries and shrapnel wounds but only need to be afraid of death.
I never said anime viewers' opinions matter more. What bugs me is that making too many insider references (especially the joking kind of) practically disables anime viewers from giving an opinion to begin with because they don't even know what the hell people are talking about. To me, this is a matter of respect.

If anime viewers question things that happen in-anime then they can simply ask if they really want to know.

Being irrelevant aside, no, it's not. Sure, you fear getting injuries. So what? You're going into war so of course you expect to get injured, however you do not expect to die. Therefore death is what you fear primarily.

Qikz
2015-03-25, 19:35
I personally quite enjoyed the anime and I'm really looking forward to the prospect of a sequel. I hope they bring in more kanmusu and have a lot more interactions between the characters and maybe drop Fubuki from being the main focus. I don't hate Fubuki, but I prefer the other characters much more.

My favourite characters in the series were by far Ooi and KTKM so maybe I'm on a different plane of existance to everyone else, because most peoplle here seemed to dislike them. I don't mind that so much though. We all have different tastes.

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 19:41
Personally, it isn't like I hate the torp cruisers or anything. The problem is their antics are way too repetitive and the timing and relevency of these are awful most of the time. For instance, it was completely gratuitious in ep6 and 12 (in ep6, they basically have no connection to the curry competition and that scene was just... there? And in ep12, it broke the momentum and added even more issue to the suspension of disbelief considering they were trapped by TEN destroyers and they kept going mushy for nearly 2 full minutes).

I also admit that the way how they made Kitakami completely passive and meek made me wonder what was the point of her character except being the receiving end of Ooi's yandere yuri actions.

Academus
2015-03-25, 19:42
Actually, I believe the fact someone can sink put the anime "farther" from the game, exactly because it makes sense for kanmusu to sink should a war breaks out. Of course, this aspect of the series is not required if the series is solely focused on slice of life and the likes, which I already explained why I found that detrimental.

I don't need gratuitious victims whatsoever, and I also think the way they handled Kisaragi was awkward. However, the fact they can sink give a certain tension when they are engaging a serious fight. In fact, most anime only viewers were suprised that someone died for real as they couldn't take the fights seriously at all prior episode 3.
The whole problem with Kisaragi's fate is that it wasn't built properly and was quickly washed away after episode 4. It is even worse when episode 6 followed up, as it gives the impression the anime staff has no idea what they wanted to do.

That's why I'm on the same page as Seihai: always referring to the game is a burden because it leads to a lot of troubles and nonsensical comments (like how people claimed the admiral was an idiot despite kisaragi's sinking couldn't be his fault anyway).
There is a certain balance to keep so the anime could just make a "reference" instead of directly borrowing a mechanic that doesn't flow well in an anime environment.

I believe the anime is an adaptation of the game rather than the war. In the game, you only lose kanmusu when you push your luck. In other words, in the game's world, you sink your own kanmusu. In anime, your kanmusu could sink any moment, and you have no control over it, nor any way to prevent it. Is that consistent with reality? Yes. Is that consistent with the game? No. Any subsequent mentioning of Kisaragi's sinking only serves to highlight that the adaptation is in name only.

From this info (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=5429709&postcount=122), Kisaragi's sinking would actually come from the game creator.

Then he should stick back to game development, and anime's stuff should ask themselves why they agreed to such a stupid idea.

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 19:46
I believe the anime is an adaptation of the game rather than the war. In the game, you only lose kanmusu when you push your luck. In other words, in the game's world, you sink your own kanmusu. In anime, your kanmusu could sink any moment, and you have no control over it, nor any way to prevent it. Is that consistent with reality? Yes. Is that consistent with the game? No. Any subsequent mentioning of Kisaragi's sinking only serves to highlight that the adaptation is in name only.What is the point of an anime if the series should stick with the game logic to that point?

An anime isn't supposed to just mimick the source material, but it needs it own cohension. Why on earth do we have to stick with such logic that only prevents players to lose their ships due to sheer bad luck?
Does that mean we also need battles that are stuck with 1 shelling phase and voila? How do we explain that a Kanmusu can just tank 3 wo air all day long just because she started the fight without major damage? Do we have to ask DD to launch their torpedoes only after everyone have had their shelling turn?

It is inane at this point because it is plainly the game with different visuals. That's not even an anime under such terms.
If a series centred on military operations have serious battles, I don't see how you can avoid heavy injuries or even casualties here.

Suffice to say, episode 12 "proved" that sinking could be somehow prevented with damage control. Also there is nothing that could stop them to make someone nearly sinking and have another kanmusu to tow them back to base.
So frankly, I see why people are disatisfied with Kisaragi's sinking, but the concept of sinking by itself isn't fundamentally bad, and it is inherent to the franchise due to burrowed source. They really should have handled this matter in another way.

chaosprophet
2015-03-25, 19:51
I believe the anime is an adaptation of the game rather than the war. In the game, you only lose kanmusu when you push your luck. In other words, in the game's world, you sink your own kanmusu. In anime, your kanmusu could sink any moment, and you have no control over it, nor any way to prevent it. Is that consistent with reality? Yes. Is that consistent with the game? No. Any subsequent mentioning of Kisaragi's sinking only serves to highlight that the adaptation is in name only.
It's not really much about reality here, but that some gameplay mechanics are there for the sake of gameplay, but isn't something you would expect to translate to any other medium adaptation.

It would be like they making an RPG adaptation that when fighting, if a character goes down it isn't a problem, he just be on the floor there, enemies won't attack him anymore, even attacks against the whole party wouldn't affect him. And after the enemies are taken care of they just get back up without a problem. As in those kind of games, only if your whole party go down you get a game over.

Academus
2015-03-25, 19:52
What is the point of an anime if the series should stick with the game logic to that point?

An anime isn't supposed to just mimick the source material, but it needs it own cohension. Why on earth do we have to stick with such logic that only prevents players to lose their ships due to sheer bad luck?
Does that mean we need battles that are stuck with 1 shelling phase and voila? How do we explain that a Kanmusu can just tank 3 wo air all day long just because she started the fight without major damage? It is inane at this point because it is plainly the game with different visuals. That's not even an anime at this point.

That's a slippery slope argument. I'm sure there's a huge difference between doing a let's play video and making an anime that at least pay attention to some of the important underlying principle and logic of the source material. And I'm sure the way a character dies is counted as important.

Suffice to say, episode 12 "proved" that sinking could be somehow prevented with damage control. Also there is nothing that could stop them to make someone nearly sinking and have another kanmusu to tow them back to base.
So frankly, I see why people are disatisfied with Kisaragi's sinking, but the concept of sinking by itself isn't fundamentally bad, and it is inherent to the franchise due to burrowed source. They really should have handled this matter in another way.

And indeed escorting a badly damaged kanmusu back is possible in game with FCF, and more importantly by player's explicit command, so if they want to show how realistic the war is, they can do that without breaking the immersion. They didn't.

Klashikari
2015-03-25, 19:55
The problem is that "sinking" mechanic in the game is designed in such way because the game is overly reliant on RNG without any way to change formation or force a retreat during the battle of a heavily damaged Kanmusu. If sinking wasn't dependant on the admiral choice for pushing his luck, then it would be absolutely unfair gamewise. That is to say, there is no reason that point should be present in the anime, ever.

Really Academus, do you really think it would flow well that , for example, Fubuki would tank every wo plane and have absolutely no chance for sinking in the anime, just because it would be impossible in the game? That premise is just counter intuitive in its nature and presentation.

Marcus H.
2015-03-25, 19:57
This bickering around which should stay or which should be scrapped is the problem that lies in adapting an anime series about Kancolle. There's so many admirals that have their choices in who should get a spotlight (i.e., some people don't like Fubuki as MC, some want less KitaOoi scenes, some wanted the other fleet divisions as MCs, etc.,) and they have lots of considerations to make (especially where to use in-game logic) in the story.

Is it even possible to meet at a compromise point?

Academus
2015-03-25, 20:17
The problem is that "sinking" mechanic in the game is designed in such way because the game is overly reliant on RNG without any way to change formation or force a retreat during the battle of a heavily damaged Kanmusu. If sinking wasn't dependant on the admiral choice for pushing his luck, then it would be absolutely unfair gamewise. That is to say, there is no reason that point should be present in the anime, ever.

Really Academus, do you really think it would flow well that , for example, Fubuki would tank every wo plane and have absolutely no chance for sinking in the anime, just because it would be impossible in the game? That premise is just counter intuitive in its nature and presentation.

Don't put the story in a spot where you need Fubuki to tank every wo plane then, just like how we won't put a red kanmusu in a spot where she needs to dodge enemy attacks to survive. Make her receives some scratch and clothing damage, then introduce powerful allies who retaliate with superior firepower. It's not like we don't have that in ep.12.

And frankly, it's a fictional fantasy setting; I care more about its internal consistency and less about its resemblance with reality.

This bickering around which should stay or which should be scrapped is the problem that lies in adapting an anime series about Kancolle. There's so many admirals that have their choices in who should get a spotlight (i.e., some people don't like Fubuki as MC, some want less KitaOoi scenes, some wanted the other fleet divisions as MCs, etc.,) and they have lots of considerations to make (especially where to use in-game logic) in the story.

Is it even possible to meet at a compromise point?

Look no further than Idolmaster. It was made by people who really know the ins and outs of the source material, and above all care and love the characters and the series.

chaosprophet
2015-03-25, 20:27
The problem is that "sinking" mechanic in the game is designed in such way because the game is overly reliant on RNG without any way to change formation or force a retreat during the battle of a heavily damaged Kanmusu. If sinking wasn't dependant on the admiral choice for pushing his luck, then it would be absolutely unfair gamewise. That is to say, there is no reason that point should be present in the anime, ever.
Having a way to change formation mid battle or choose to retreat just after a ship girl is sent to red wouldn't be enough. People would still be losing ship-girls all the time by having an enemy getting a lucky critical that one-shots them even before you could have any choice, which is another thing the current sinking mechanic prevents. And I agree with you, it's very important in such a RNG reliant game and wouldn't make sense in the anime at all and would make the battles be a joke.

Myssa Rei
2015-03-25, 22:58
Look no further than Idolmaster.

And even then there were compromises done simply to give everyone in the first series sufficient screentime, Miki's obsession with the Producer the only romantic angle that carried over from the game, and the last third of the show focusing on Haruka's insecurities plus Chihaya's trauma felt heavy-handed.

Ditto with Cinderella Girls -- while giving the Producer a face and a personality worked surprisingly well (the staff themselves were surprised themselves at the Producer's popularity), it was a big gamble too, as it could easily just devolve into an idol harem.

The Kantai Collection anime suffered from similar, if even worse production compromises. You can see that Kadokawa desperately wanted this to work, and they tried to tread on as few toes while trying to please everyone... which just raised a ruckus anyway from more finicky watchers anyway.

Not that there weren't legitimate complaints (pacing for example, consistent mood another), they tend to get drowned out by the people raging on, say, Fubuki being the MC, and not their own character of choice...

Ithekro
2015-03-25, 23:43
Fubuki is the safe MC of the starter ships. I don't think they wanted to go with a MC that wasn't a starter ship (even though many shipgirls can hold their own in fiction). I suppose the other starter girls had too much baggage or attachements (or didn't fit the art style as well...Murakumo)

Miraluka
2015-03-26, 01:50
@Myssa Rei

And Miki's it's the only successful one that even has an epilogue when the others' just end.

Nvis
2015-03-26, 02:03
Give me more Himes!

IceHism
2015-03-26, 02:43
I hope in the sequel that they don't dance around the line between plot and no plot. Either write a serious story or just make it plotless with SoL as main focus. No trying to do both as i don't think that worked for this season.

Also, no more bucky as MC please.

Scarletknive
2015-03-26, 04:24
I hope in the sequel that they don't dance around the line between plot and no plot. Either write a serious story or just make it plotless with SoL as main focus. No trying to do both as i don't think that worked for this season.

Also, no more bucky as MC please.

Hmm... I agree at some point they should just stick to one or the other and not both... Probably the writers will be able to learn from the mistakes in the first season.

I don't get the hate on bucky as MC... Too OP and plot armor?

Sheba
2015-03-26, 04:34
I don't get the hate on bucky as MC... Too OP and plot armor?

The cries of "OMG TOO BLAND" or how she should be replaced by Shimakaze (once I have played the game, I found myself liking Yukikaze better than Shimakaze).

On my end, the handling of her growth felt... clumsy and her Akagi fangirlism should have been toned down a little. I am a TTK who picked her as starter ship and would have been fine if another starter ship like Inazuma or Samidare was picked as protag.

DerGilga
2015-03-26, 05:29
As a rare specimen who doesn't play the game, the scenes with the admiral had no impact on me at all. Did those who play the game could connect to him/her? Had his scenes any impact on game players? I'm really curious because him missing and magically reappearing had the same emotional impact on me as watching paint dry.
So I would be perfectly happy if the admiral dies a slow and horrible death between season 1 and season 2 and the girls are left on there own.

Wish for next season: I just want one abyssal focused episode with MC Hoppo!

Myssa Rei
2015-03-26, 05:37
From a game-player's perspective, the Admiral was pretty incompetent actually -- lots of the stuff shown, like not stockpiling resources prior to an important Event, are no-nos among veteran players (for example, in the actual in-game Midway Event, I had amassed 400+ buckets and 100k+ resources in prep for it). Nevermind the implication that they only managed to win in the final episode because the admiral used his credit card to buy the 10-bucket pack from Akashi's shop. :heh:

That said, I'm fine if the series keeps the same character dynamics for the sequel, for continuity's sake. However, the production really has to get a better screenwriter -- the two-screenwriter thing didn't really work, as it just caused whiplash between the serious vs. SOL segments.

James Rye
2015-03-26, 06:59
Why does the opinion of the anime only viewers matter more than the game players? KC is based on a game with ship girls. WIth anime viewers, you can already go ??? at the shinkaisen kan, arrows becoming planes, the bath scenes and well, the buckets is the game mechanics.

That's like saying that in war, you don't need to be afraid of injuries and shrapnel wounds but only need to be afraid of death.

Not really, I didn't played the game either yet I could understand that there are fairies that do a lot of work together with the shipgirls or that instant repair buckets literally repair you instantly and what not. An anime can explain stuff to anime only viewers pretty well if done right.

Also the shipgirls really don't need to be afraid of injuries and shrapnel and stuff like that. From what we saw they cannot lose limbs or even get scars. All they need to do is take a bath and their skin is as smooth and clean as before. So any kind of damage taken is nothing else but an annoyance, maybe an annoyance that hurts but nothing with lasting effects like being unable to shoot a bow anymore thus being a useless aircraft carrier, etc.
So "death" aka sinking was the only thing the shipgirls could be really afraid of and which the viewers could agree with as fear as a bath or bucket cannot undo death.
People in our real world would kill for such a bath or instant repair buckets for humans. XDDD

Kopi
2015-03-26, 07:04
-An admiral with face and personality please, so I relate better to how the girls feel like when he actually went missing (well since they went with dead silence figure, it's kind of hard to change this...gdi)
-Tenryuu, RJT, other naval bases
-A better writer & director to make the battle episodes better... the non-battle epis are actually fine
-Physical and emotional developments ONSCREEN into Kai Ni (overcoming crisis, or even better together so they can Kai Ni a bunch of girls at the same time, etc)
-More voiced Abyssals

Marcus H.
2015-03-26, 07:48
Not really, I didn't played the game either yet I could understand that there are fairies that do a lot of work together with the shipgirls or that instant repair buckets literally repair you instantly and what not. An anime can explain stuff to anime only viewers pretty well if done right.

Same, but only because [a] I know enough about the game without playing it and [b] I played a sizable amount of games to recognize game logic. :heh:

blitz1/2
2015-03-26, 07:57
They need to include more gundam references in season 2. xD

kct
2015-03-26, 08:20
They need to include more gundam references in season 2. xD

They missed the boat with the Yuudachi Kai 2 episode.

msg
2015-03-26, 08:59
Actually i don't mind Fubuki as an MC, The real problem lies with Diomedia themselves..they took more of what they can chew (i believe they're handling four anime concurrently? one of them i believe is cross-ange? and because of that they're short of staffs)..this lead to rush out for production datelines and time which lead to poor to below average quality anime (direction and plot wise, their animation is ok)...i rather (if they're gonna make a second season) see them pass to another company affliated to them so as to not to compromised the "quality"of the said "titles"...I understand that diomedia doesn't want to miss out "big titles"but what they're doing right now is counter productive and missing out making big profits so to speak...quantities over qualities.

Like others already been said, Diomedia really need to change the screenwriter or the director..the season gotten worse after half the season (specifically after episode 5).The anime stuttered irregular flow/pacing and inconsistencies show up more especially in the later half of the season.

That being said, i doubted they going to change the staff that they have for future sequel (and complaining here is kinda useless in this forum...you think they're gonna listen or read this forum:heh:)...we can only hope they would improve if they still sticking with the current production staff.

Marcus H.
2015-03-26, 09:08
Actually i don't mind Fubuki as an MC, The real problem lies with Diomedia themselves..they took more of what they can chew (i believe they're handling four anime concurrently? one of them i believe is cross-ange? and because of that they're short of staffs)..this lead to rush out for production datelines and time which lead to poor to below average quality anime (direction and plot wise, their animation is ok)...i rather (if they're gonna make a second season) see them pass to another company affliated to them so as to not to compromised the "quality"of the said "titles"...I understand that diomedia doesn't want to miss out "big titles"but what they're doing right now is counter productive and missing out making big profits so to speak...quantities over qualities.

Diomedea's current load consists of this season's Cute High Earth Defense Club Love!, Unlimited Fafnir, Kantai Collection and World Break: Aria of Curse for a Holy Swordsman and Kūsen Madōshi Kōhosei no Kyōkan next season(?). If that doesn't explain why they're struggling when they're used to loads this big, then I don't know what.

blitz1/2
2015-03-26, 10:24
I have another idea for season 2. Have all the Shiratsuyu class (yea, we'll see poi again) under the command of a new Teitoku. For the ending antagonist, see Harusame with Destroyer hime.

Eisdrache
2015-03-26, 11:11
Having only the shadow of an admiral is perfectly fine if it's handled well. It's possible to show him being competent even without speaking a single word.
Similarly having Fubuki as the MC is fine too. The reason why she's considered bland is because she repeated the same drama several times. This is not an issue of having another MC, she would have had the exact same problems Fubuki did.
Just having SoL wouldn't work as the setting is quirky shipgirls fighting against abyssals. Having only battles however would not do it justice either.
Game mechanics being included in the show that anime-only viewers won't get is perfectly fine. I am saying this as someone who hasn't played the game. While the show should provide the basic setting, it's up to the viewer to look up more in depth details.

The main problem with Kancolle was the miserable pacing along with several non-existant quality checks as well as unlogical stuff happening all over the place. Just fixing the pacing alone would have improved the show massively.

Klashikari
2015-03-26, 11:15
I also believe it is possible to make the admiral counting as a "character" even if they aren't visible.
For instance, if they made the admiral slaming their desk upon hearing Kisaragi's death (with a close up on a gloved fist on the desk), and potentially some "wet marks" on the said desk, it would change a lot of things.

The real issue with the "air admiral" is the fact that Nagato completely took his role over time, and his "disappearence" made the matter much worse.

DerGilga
2015-03-26, 17:23
The choice of an air admiral was probably made so that the viewer could 'play' his role, mimicking an aspekt of the game. Also certain shipgirl quotes or shipgirls themselves wouldn't be usable in the anime. *looking at Kongou* I think it totally backfired and was one of the most stupid decisions of the staff.

Given the importance of admiral and the decision he has to make, I would prefered a real character next season. A admiral with grief and sorrow would be far more relatable then this air admiral who has less personality than a broomstick. Rereading old mangas I wished the anime had admiral like this guy:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Y%C5%8Dichi_Hiruma.jpg
A jerk with a heart of gold who in the end would love his girls. I can dream, can't I?

AC-Phoenix
2015-03-26, 17:30
Whatever they do, I just hope the admiral will be visible or have a voice.
Or things like Klashikari already mentioned to characterize him.

Him being there for the last episode was kinda pointless, and they could have as well killed him off to bring a proper Admiral into the next season/movie/whatever.

chaosprophet
2015-03-26, 17:33
The choice of an air admiral was probably made so that the viewer could 'play' his role, mimicking an aspekt of the game. Also certain shipgirl quotes or shipgirls themselves wouldn't be usable in the anime. *looking at Kongou* I think it totally backfired and was one of the most stupid decisions of the staff.

I agree with you, but just want to comment that the decision is likely so people can not only insert themselves in the role, but also insert their favorite fandom admiral there. As in the fandom there are many kinds of admirals, young or old, male or female, with all kinds of different personalities.

Master Assassin
2015-03-26, 19:34
I agree with you, but just want to comment that the decision is likely so people can not only insert themselves in the role, but also insert their favorite fandom admiral there. As in the fandom there are many kinds of admirals, young or old, male or female, with all kinds of different personalities.

With that kind of decision and seeing the result of its execution in the anime, I'd think that the fandom won't even want to insert anything at all. As it stands the "treatment" of the "Admiral" concept in the anime makes it look worse than being adapted out.

Estavali
2015-03-26, 20:10
I think the first thing they should do is to decide on the setting and build the story from there on. Some decent world-building is always welcome, and it could also give them the freedom to do more than just stick to the events of the Pacific War. Show also the effects of the Abyssal Fleet dominating the ocean, like embargoes placed on maritime nations and how they affect these nations, and the consequences of introducing the ship-girls as the solution to the Abyssal problem.

kct
2015-03-26, 20:35
Show also the effects of the Abyssal Fleet dominating the ocean, like embargoes placed on maritime nations and how they affect these nations, and the consequences of introducing the ship-girls as the solution to the Abyssal problem.

The problem with that is that comparisons with similar franchises cannot be avoided, since it has been the go-to plot device of both SW and Arpeggio.

Of course, the main thing about Arpeggio is the metapolitics, something that KC will likely struggle with.

With regards to the game mechanics part, it felt fine at first, but got increasingly out of place.

I wish they animate the Cranes' LN though.

arkhangelsk
2015-03-27, 00:14
I believe the anime is an adaptation of the game rather than the war. In the game, you only lose kanmusu when you push your luck. In other words, in the game's world, you sink your own kanmusu. In anime, your kanmusu could sink any moment, and you have no control over it, nor any way to prevent it. Is that consistent with reality? Yes. Is that consistent with the game? No. Any subsequent mentioning of Kisaragi's sinking only serves to highlight that the adaptation is in name only.

Let me give you another idea. If you suspend disbelief and assume the world of KanColle does exist, then the game and anime are but representations of that world. Under these terms, what do you think is more likely in that world?

1) Kanmusu really don't die unless they go into battle taiha.
2) Kanmusu do die, but the game softballs that part.

If you think about how games that represent the real world go, the answer should be obvious.

Even if Kanmusu generally don't die, given that they are hurling shells at each other, a very likely reason in-world reason why they don't is because the Abyssals try not to kill kanmusu (they are after all, their only entertainment). They try to neutralize rather than kill and once that's achieved, as a rule they go on other targets. Sometimes the kanmusus try too hard, struggling to their feet, and the Abyssals spray a couple of rounds in their general direction*. Only when they are too stubborn does some Abyssal shoot the girl dead (perhaps sighing in its mind). The game approximates these tendencies, but it doesn't necessarily mean that the Abyssals can't make a mistake in the real universe, or one can't change its mind. Kisaragi just happened to be that one, and since such things do happen from time to time, all kanmusu fear sinking.

*Which if true says something interesting about us, because we typically cheer when an Abyssal fires on our already Heavily Damaged kanmusu, even calling such kanmusu things like "meat shield"...

Sheba
2015-03-27, 01:48
I agree with you, but just want to comment that the decision is likely so people can not only insert themselves in the role, but also insert their favorite fandom admiral there. As in the fandom there are many kinds of admirals, young or old, male or female, with all kinds of different personalities.

That's the thing, Idolm@ster showed at two occasion that it can be done. And in the case of Cinderella Girls, he even enjoyed a surprising popularity. I don't think Japan, the primary target audience, would mind if he looked like generic LN protag as long as he shows that he have a disctinct personality, cares about his girls (and troll Akebono wwww) and have a good seiyuu to boot.

LoweGear
2015-03-27, 02:05
Yeah, Idolm@ster showed that you can represent the player character as their own distinct persona without being detrimental to the portrayal of the established popular characters, and in fact can be beneficial as a whole. As already mentioned, the socially-awkward Producer from the Idolm@ster Cinderella Girls anime is an extremely popular character in his own right, despite the fact that he's an anime-only addition that is only there to represent the player character from the game.

Given that the Admiral in the anime already shows preferences counter to what some players actually want and do - like the extreme preference for Fubuki for instance - I think the anime should've just straight up made an actual Admiral character that we can see who can provide another level of interaction with the girls.

2) Kanmusu do die, but the game softballs that part.



Oh if only Kancolle used Dog Days wargames mechanics :uhoh::D

Klashikari
2015-03-27, 02:08
Oh if only Kancolle used Dog Days wargames mechanics :uhoh::D
I know you are joking but, for goodness sake, no. Anything but that.

LoweGear
2015-03-27, 02:12
I know you are joking but, for goodness sake, no. Anything but that.

Why not? Kanmusu already suffer clothing damage from battle in much the same way Dog Days does, and that way you can have intense battles between the Abyssals and Kanmusu without any death, while allowing for likeable and sympathetic Abyssals to be portrayed :D:D:D

Abyssals like Hoppo also wouldn't look out of place in a setting where defeat equals puffballs :nod:

*runs*

Sheba
2015-03-27, 02:15
That's the thing tho, in-game you SINK the Abyssals. The no instant sinking or not sinking unless red is in because of the RNG nature of the game. A comparison would be playing D&D against a asshole DM where game mechanisms such as negative HP and revival prevent games from being total party wipes.

chaosprophet
2015-03-27, 03:09
That's the thing, Idolm@ster showed at two occasion that it can be done. And in the case of Cinderella Girls, he even enjoyed a surprising popularity. I don't think Japan, the primary target audience, would mind if he looked like generic LN protag as long as he shows that he have a disctinct personality, cares about his girls (and troll Akebono wwww) and have a good seiyuu to boot.

I was mentioning another possible reason for not showing admiral, but I agree it didn't work as that in the end and would have been better too have him/her as an actual character or not there.

Ithekro
2015-03-27, 03:50
Aside from some of the more interesting fan make Admirals, I wanted a unseen Admiral that would do mostly voice-overs (maybe actually talk from offscreen to the girls, but really I wanted voice overs as a commentary on the girls and what was going on) done by Tomokazu Sugita...in a Kyon style voice and personality. Snark with some trolling, and a lot of exasperation towards his more energentic girls (Kongo for instance).

Enternal
2015-03-27, 03:52
Oh if only Kancolle used Dog Days wargames mechanics :uhoh::D
It would be fun if Akagi turns into a manju when defeated instead of a toy ship.

Sheba
2015-03-27, 04:01
Aside from some of the more interesting fan make Admirals, I wanted a unseen Admiral that would do mostly voice-overs (maybe actually talk from offscreen to the girls, but really I wanted voice overs as a commentary on the girls and what was going on) done by Tomokazu Sugita...in a Kyon style voice and personality. Snark with some trolling, and a lot of exasperation towards his more energentic girls (Kongo for instance).

Heard somewhere that Tomokazu Sugita liked Haruna among the four sisters.

Ithekro
2015-03-27, 04:07
Haruna is fine. I can "hear" the facepalm of a "Kyon" admiral towards Kongo and Hiei's antics. Or Naka and Sendai for that matter.

orion
2015-03-27, 04:13
As an anime only viewer, I hope they have better 3D graphics and better fights. I like Fubuki as a MC.

I think not showing the admiral is prob the best way to go as if it's an old guy, part of the viewers would go "ewwww" those girls are obsessed over that old fart. If it's a a kid, then it's "ewwww" those girls are obsessed over a kid and the fact that it's a kid would just take away the realism. If it's a teen, then it's "oh they are mimicking Arpeggio of Blue Steel".

I hope that more Abysmals will be able to talk and they show us how the sunken girls become Abysmals.

LoweGear
2015-03-27, 04:19
I think not showing the admiral is prob the best way to go as if it's an old guy, part of the viewers would go "ewwww" those girls are obsessed over that old fart. If it's a a kid, then it's "ewwww" those girls are obsessed over a kid and the fact that it's a kid would just take away the realism. If it's a teen, then it's "oh they are mimicking Arpeggio of Blue Steel".


You can't please everyone, and while there's nothing wrong about a nebulous admiral in theory, given their execution here it's apparent that having a faceless admiral in this case was a poor decision since they didn't or couldn't capitalize on said premise properly.

As mentioned above, there have been successful cases of player representatives being given definitive appearances and characters as in the case of The Idolm@ster animes. No matter what form you put the Admiral in, as long as they're portrayed to be a competent, balanced character most people shouldn't have a problem with him/her.

Keroko
2015-03-27, 06:34
I'm probably in the minority here, but I'd like a first person, subtitled admiral like the producer in the first episode of Idolm@aster. I thought that was a really original swing for an anime to take, and while the actual producer was a pretty good character, I would not have minded had the rest of the series continued in that trend.

As for the rest of the next season... well, as an anime only viewer, I join the chorus who'd like a different MC. I found Fubuki extremely bland and unengaging, like she was a checkbox of anime heroine must-haves. Even the characters that were little beyond their stereotypes were more engaging to me simply for being characters in their own right. Heck, maybe focus on an entirely different cast. Plenty of shipgirls that haven't even shown yet.

I'd also like if they find a better way to level the drama versus the slice of life. One moment the war is all fun and games, the next it's deadly serious mortal conflict where everyone almost dies. Even Strike Witches managed to find a better balance in this, and that's the show with girls fighting aliens in their underwear!

Marina2
2015-03-27, 14:33
Fubuki was chosen as MC because her bland character and personality can go along with any character in the fleet. That said, I also want new MC. (6desdiv is prefered)

My idea for SS2

- Reboot it
- Keep the SS1 artstyle
- Use less CG in battle
- Have visible admiral and make him MC
- MC is one of many admirals at the base. He will command a set of ship girls while other admirals command the rest. This doesn't limit ship girls under other admiral command to join his fleet from time to time in a joint operation or a special operation.
- Battle should be more serious and complicated and show more tactic.
- Abysmals should be smarter and talkable and they should have a clear goal of what they are trying to do (just made up the reasons for anime)
- Abysmals should have their own big base somewhere AND has the EVIL Abysmals admiral as boss
- There shouldn't be any reference to the real history

Tactics
2015-03-27, 15:17
My idea for SS2

- Reboot it
- MC is one of many admirals at the base. He will command a set of ship girls while other admirals command the rest. This doesn't limit ship girls under other admiral command to join his fleet from time to time in a joint operation or a special operation.

I also prefer a reboot with Admiral as MC rather than keep going with-- an invisible leader (It's hard to believe he's actually exist with Nagato and Mutsu doing his task).

I'd like to see how he'll reacted to a sunk ship (e.g. Kisaragi death).
What will his reaction be? Angered? Sad? Will that affect his future decision regarding girls safety on the battlefield?
It'll be really interesting to see how he build the morale of ship girls since Kisaragi death surely affect almost everyone on naval base.

How will the curry match turned out if Admiral is the one who taste it?
Screaming when he saw the lethal contestants? Try to run for his life?

What kind of expression will appears if he met Yamato? Yamato is a legendary ship with her own problem, how he will encourage her?
On the other side, I think Admiral gain access to Musashi through LSC will be interesting as we know Musashi is found lately (not to mention there's event for her also).
The biggest minus point of Kancolle for me is the lack of Admiral; I don't mind with Fubuki as the main girl, it's just-- something is missing without Admiral.
This series could be much better with a competent Admiral as a MC (IMHO), or maybe a kuso-teitoku one if you're aiming for comedy route as reboot theme.

:p

The concept of "one of many admiral" is also interesting to developed.
One day, Admiral A (senior) visit Admiral B (MC) for a mock battle as a form of developing Admiral B experience.
Learning through practice (PVP between A & B actually), developed new strategy after experiencing defeat, build the morale;

It'll be a good development for both MC and girls.
Of course, this comes with risk more episode needed than just 2 x 12 episode.

:heh:

Keroko
2015-03-27, 17:24
Less CG is a lofty goal to strive for, but less CG also risks a decrease in overall animation quality. One of the advantages of CG is that once created, a model can be reduced over and over, while traditional animation has to be drawn from scratch almost every single time.

arkhangelsk
2015-03-27, 22:16
Less CG is a lofty goal to strive for, but less CG also risks a decrease in overall animation quality. One of the advantages of CG is that once created, a model can be reduced over and over, while traditional animation has to be drawn from scratch almost every single time.

I only wish they'll make the CG's quality proportionate to the way they use it. For the most part, CG in Japan is a cost saving measure and they really do not stand up to close scrutiny. So if you use lots of CGs, make them the long shots.

I don't really mind who they use as MC, but it would be nice if they actually keep the MC's feats in-line with their class and setup. Ep12 for all its weaknesses actually solved a beef I had with this anime about Fubuki being too dominant at everyone elses' expense. Ironically, by swamping the screen with characters, Fubuki's part was reduced to a "MC but a destroyer-ish level". It felt natural for the first time in some time.

I wish they can do that without needing to resort to such crudity.

Miraluka
2015-03-27, 23:53
That's the thing, Idolm@ster showed at two occasion that it can be done. And in the case of Cinderella Girls, he even enjoyed a surprising popularity. I don't think Japan, the primary target audience, would mind if he looked like generic LN protag as long as he shows that he have a disctinct personality, cares about his girls (and troll Akebono wwww) and have a good seiyuu to boot.
This so much.


It would be fun if Akagi turns into a manju when defeated instead of a toy ship.

Or Naka turning into.... :heh:

refrain
2015-03-29, 06:58
Third day since It released and the Bluray still rank 1st on the chart

risingstar3110
2015-03-29, 11:05
I think the multiple Admiral is the best option, as a)it will allow dj room to thrive, which what made Kancolle popular in the first place, and b) they can keep the Admiral personality unique so her/his interaction with the Kanmusu can become the main point. Not to mention you will have a relatively small casts to explore more on, and you can call in more reinforcement for bigger development.

There are several dj with Admiral and Plasma-chan as main heroine out there, and they were done excellently

Definitely should ditch the real history event thingy. Only keep it as reference or PTSD

Estavali
2015-03-31, 08:21
I wish they animate the Cranes' LN though.

Even if they don't, they should at least apply what makes it successful to the next season at least =3

What I love about the Cranes LN is how the author uses the ship-girls' history (= memories). That these memories would haunt them is more or less expected but it's the way the girls apply the lessons learnt from their past that makes it so refreshing =3

Imho, story-telling abilities aside, the KanColle anime is best left to someone who is both a fan (and will thus be more motivated to make it a success) and knows how to apply historical facts in a flexible manner, as is the case with the Cranes LN. Methinks S1 is a pretty good example where the writer either doesn't know what to do with the ships' past and just follows history as it ran, or is not bothered to explore the possibilities.

cloud04
2015-03-31, 13:17
whats this i heard about a possible change in MC in s2? when Sumire Uesaka was interviewed in comiket special 6