View Full Version : Love Live! Sunshine - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll
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Oh my god those Mari and Chika breakdowns had me sobbing like a child x.x
It really is frustrating to finish last with 0 votes, but to get the courage to go forward despite that is truly phenominal. I'm glad Dia was there to give support and explain that its happened before. The difference being they gave up, and Chika did not.
Also pretty sure Saint Snow's words hit Chika pretty hard. This is probably the turning point where Aqours stops trying to be like Muse so much.
* I mean...I kind of expected Aqours to be the least popular from the title preview, but I didn't think it would be anywhere near THAT bad. Though it ties in to Step! Zero to ONE really well.
Stark700
2016-08-20, 09:39
The feels of this episode...
I'm sad for Aqours. 30 out of 30 place and 0 votes...that's going to hurt. Saint Snow came 9th place. Hopefully Aqours will improve more because they do have potential.
Benigmatica
2016-08-20, 09:41
While Saint Snow got 9th Place, I have to say that Aqours getting dead-last is the most heart-breaking of all!
On the plus side though, Chika Takami didn't give up as a school idol so it's reassuring that she and her friends can learn from their mistakes and become a better school idol group.
One last thing, Kanan dissing Mari's hug is the most cruel thing ever! Why Kanan-chan, why!?
I swear if Step! ZERO to ONE is not going to be in the show after this... eh, dunno what I'm going to do, but it'll be frustrating. And, err, Dia just shot up in my top Aqours girls, almost surpassing Yohane.
If there's one thing I didn't like in the episode, though, it's probably the scene with Kanan and Mari. I think, OG had me frustrated the most with Honoka getting depressed in the worst way possible, and Kanan's attitude mirrors it. Also, well, after listening to her not being depressive and sad in SIF, it's just depressing to see scenes with her.
judasmartel
2016-08-20, 11:13
The road from zero votes to number one in LL will be long and hard.
darkchibi07
2016-08-20, 11:16
Even with all that hard work and practice, the Aqours still failed miserably!
This is realistically harsh.
Tempester
2016-08-20, 11:26
If there's one thing I didn't like in the episode, though, it's probably the scene with Kanan and Mari. I think, OG had me frustrated the most with Honoka getting depressed in the worst way possible, and Kanan's attitude mirrors it. Also, well, after listening to her not being depressive and sad in SIF, it's just depressing to see scenes with her.
I'm glad Kanan wasn't anywhere near my favorite Aqours girl before the anime started or else I would be extremely upset over the way the anime has been shafting her character. As someone who never cared for her much in the first place I can just casually sit back and enjoy her crawling in her skin (:heh:), but I do feel extremely sorry for Kanan fans right now, and I wonder whose brilliant idea it was to cut her screen time to pretty much zero while simultaneously making whatever scenes she does show up not exhibit her positive traits at all.
Hell, I could say that for the 3rd years in general, the show hasn't given them a chance to shine as part of the group dynamics which is a pity because Mari is just hilarious when she messes around with Yoshiko and Riko in the Guilty Kiss drama track. But it's especially bad for Kanan, because as much as they've been separate from the rest of the girls, at least Dia and Mari have been shown to have their strengths and positive contributions towards the plot, while Kanan has been nothing but either neutral or downright antagonistic.
https://a.pomf.cat/szmepv.jpg
Wandering Soul
2016-08-20, 11:30
I was expecting them to rank poorly, but last place with no votes? They have a lot of improving to do.
Nice to see Mari's mask break for a bit and see what she is truly feeling underneath, even if it was sad that Kanan rejected Mari's wish and walked away.
Excellent episode. This week showed us everything I had hoped for. Saint Snow's performance was very cool. Chika and the rest gathered valuable experience in Tokyo. As expected, the participants tenfolded within just a few years since A-Rise and Muse made the event called Love Live explode with popularity. Even the beginners now face a seemingly unclimbable wall called Akiba Dome. Face reality, Chika. You started this for fun, but this isn't just for fun anymore. That's why you don't see anything, and it's damn admirable that you are self aware of that fact, grasping reality with the rest of your group. That was definitely my favorite part of the episode. They know they did their best. They know their performance was the best yet. But compared to everyone else, they're nothing special and that's the harsh reality.
And again, I have to praise Dia and Ruby's relationship. Ruby is such a lovely character and I certainly felt the emotions come up in me when she ran into her sister's arms to cry herself out. Chika aside, I still say she has it the hardest with her stage fright and this was a superb sample of "show, don't tell".
Next, the 3rd year drama finally presents itself and I don't think it could have been any more impactful with Mari's sudden emotional backlash towards Kanan who right now still won't waver from her opinion.
Finally, Saint Snow didn't really show their motivation behind what they're doing so we can't tell if they were just Muse fans like Aquors are. But what we do know, and that's what's important anyway, is that they aren't top idols that are in the actual top like A-rise were. And that puts their "rivalry" on the same wavelength which definitely differentiates from the OG's rivalry.
P.S.: I want to be hugged by Kanan.
There's an obvious disconnect between the context of the show's universe and reality. The songs you heard in the episode were professionally written and are not in any way indicative of what a bunch of high school girls many of whom have had no vocal, dance, etc training let alone experience would be capable of producing.
Did Aqours song come off as a last place, this is terrible, you're out of your league performance to you? Could you tell they were anything resembling bad and need to improve based solely on that performance alone? Imagine if the actresses had actually sung poorly, messed up the lyrics, and the animation had shown clear mistakes in the execution of their sloppily planned dance choreography. Where you could tell easily and without a doubt that they were the worst group. Not because the group wasn't even fully formed or it was still only the first cour and it wouldn't make any thematic or narrative sense for them to succeed that quickly.
No, we got a not at all high school performance of a song that will be sold in a real life for money and had to just accept that it was subpar. The group had only recently gotten its sixth member. It was too soon.
Though just as with the first season it's doing a poor job of showing the difference between raw beginners with no training and experienced well trained professionals when every insert song in the shows is a professionally written and performed song. When they win love live next cour, compare their winning song with this one. According to this episode it should be worlds better in every respect. It won't be. It'll be the same overproduced professionally written idol music with on real difference in quality within that medium.
Requiem-x
2016-08-20, 11:56
Ouch... this is one of those where you have to pause multiple times, or outright not look at the screen to avoid heart pain, and even then, Chika letting it out at the end did get to me, somewhat. Considering something similar happened with the original LL, I'd say Sunshine is doing a pretty good job. Very glad to be see Chika is taking her job as leader seriously, and even more so than she's as angry as she is sad over what happened. That kind of result would piss off anyone, and yes, this is experience talking (not in idols, though:heh:).
I certainly didn't expect for even Saint Snow to not make it (by the way, that was an awesome song), but it does make sense: Muse set the bar, and the new guard rose to the challenge. Now I kinda want to see someone from Muse popping up at the finale just to say these girls would've destroyed them.
Meanwhile, on the fourth years, Dia is now clearly one of the best characters, and again, a really good big sister. On the other side, Mari's master plan seems to have fallen apart, even if she isn't giving up.
Pretty good episode in terms of the drama, and now, for Aqours to kinda start from zero (no whale hunting here, though). Next time... what's this? Could it be? Acknowledgement that Chika and Kanan have known each other since they were kids? Finally!
...are they going to recruit all the third years in one fell swoop? If so, awesome!
tsunade666
2016-08-20, 11:58
Nice and emotionally package episode. Its not cringe worthy but just plain sad. The reality hit them hard. Zero votes. Starts from Zero... the staff is watching/reading Re:Zero >_>
I liked the scene where Chika cried her hearts out and the others are with her. Its a heart warming scene.
novalysis
2016-08-20, 12:00
No, we got a not at all high school performance of a song that will be sold in a real life for money and had to just accept that it was subpar. The group had only recently gotten its sixth member. It was too soon.
Though just as with the first season it's doing a poor job of showing the difference between raw beginners with no training and experienced well trained professionals when every insert song in the shows is a professionally written and performed song. When they win love live next cour, compare their winning song with this one. According to this episode it should be worlds better in every respect. It won't be. It'll be the same overproduced professionally written idol music with on real difference in quality within that medium.
It would be an interesting marketing strategy, if they gave the raw, deliberately weaker version of the real insert songs during in-anime performances, and use the professional variant in EDs or release previews simultaneously of the professional version online with each episode, to encourage those who want to know what the professional version really looks like.
That, or they need to stop their rookie group formula, and subvert SS inevitable successor with a School Idol group that's mid tier with pre-established members, where the injection of new members and new leadership leads the club out of the B level doldrums of School Idoling.
Akito Kinomoto
2016-08-20, 12:02
This episode was...
no...
is
absolutely beautiful. These poor little country bumpkins haven't realized how much Love Live! has grown since the 1st heroes rocked the stage. And the ashes of the past will not be rekindled so easily. The realization to zero and the voice work during the watershed moments is smooth and sentimental without being sappy
Chika, what are you thinking when you reach out to your idols? Do you want to keep chasing the moon, or have you realized everyone's now reaching for the stars?
[...]it's doing a poor job of showing the difference between raw beginners with no training and experienced well trained professionals when every insert song in the shows is a professionally written and performed song.
Huh, that's the first time I've seen someone criticize the songs for being good. I think what you're missing is enough suspension of belief. We aren't supposed to question how they can even produce those kind of songs on their own without an idol manager, real sponsors, a professional band, and stuff like that. It's just that, anime. Sure, Aquors' performance may have been kinda professional, but that just means everyone else was even more so. I believe we should just accept that's the kind of world they live in. Besides, the performance itself is by any means not the only factor that plays a role in deciding one's popularity anyway.
When they win love live next cour, compare their winning song with this one. According to this episode it should be worlds better in every respect. It won't be. It'll be the same overproduced professionally written idol music with on real difference in quality within that medium.Song quality can only be so objective, don't you think? You judge it like there are different power levels a la DBZ :heh:
novalysis
2016-08-20, 12:25
Everyone is trying. Every group is putting hours into practice. Every group is planning routines, generating PVs, trying to innovate sufficiently to stand out. Muse playbook has probably been disected, and no doubt numerous strategies and styles have been built in direct response to their success, that being like Muse is a suicidal approach, with the level of competition and the fact that every top idol club has probably adjusted their techniques precisely to surpass the original Muse if they can.
And for the small group of countryside girls, reality ensures, and their leader faces a trial unlike any other even Honoka has ever faced. She takes this even better than Honoka, and displays frightening and amazing strength that I think even she did not know she possessed when she begun this endeavor.
Well done Chiaki. You've shot up close to the top of my favorites with this episode, and you have decisively differentiated yourself from Honoka.
Triple_R
2016-08-20, 12:30
Dia's explicit reference of μ's and A-RISE was completely unnecessary (especially against the backdrop of older A-RISE/μ's performances!), and took some away from an otherwise excellent episode. It's a real shame that this show just stubbornly refuses to let Sunshine stand on its own two feet, especially since this is one episode where it would have done so beautifully.
Aqours and Saint Snow's performances were cleverly handled considering where they finished in the rankings. Saint Snow's performance was enjoyable to watch, and more enjoyable to listen to (excellent singing).
Well done Chiaki. You've shot up close to the top of my favorites with this episode, and you have decisively differentiated yourself from Honoka.
Kono ko wa, dare?
Dia's explicit reference of μ's and A-RISE was completely unnecessary (especially against the backdrop of older A-RISE/μ's performances!), and took some away from an otherwise excellent episode.
Oh, come on. That was perfectly a acceptable bow to Muse and A-RISE as well as acknowledgement of the events from the movie. Not every nod to them is cleverly done, but this time it was well integrated into the episode.
Triple_R
2016-08-20, 12:47
Oh, come on. That was perfectly a acceptable bow to Muse and A-RISE as well as acknowledgement of the events from the movie. Not every nod to them is cleverly done, but this time it was well integrated into the episode.
No, it wasn't well-done. It added absolutely nothing to the episode. It didn't add anything that we haven't heard before or can't figure out on our own (like Tempester said last week, we're not brain-dead!) This episode, perhaps more than any other, should have been Aqours episode, all about them, leaving the OG entirely aside.
No, it wasn't well-done. It added absolutely nothing to the episode. It didn't add anything that we haven't heard before or can't figure out on our own (like Tempester said last week, we're not brain-dead!) This episode, perhaps more than any other, should have been Aqours episode, all about them, leaving the OG entirely aside.
It was, I will not concede that point. Cut that nod out of Dia's speech, and the quiz in the second episode will have to go as it will destroy what has been established earlier about Dia and her personality.
Triple_R
2016-08-20, 13:13
It was, I will not concede that point.
No, it was not well-done.
Cut that nod out of Dia's speech, and the quiz in the second episode will have to go as it will destroy what has been established earlier about Dia and her personality.
Just because Dia is a μ's fangirl doesn't mean she needs to mention them (or A-RISE) when comforting Aqours over a school idols-related disappointment. One does not necessitate the other.
I love the Montreal Canadiens. I'm a huge fan of them, and have been since the mid-90s. It doesn't mean I'm incapable of talking about hockey without also talking about the Montreal Canadiens (who, by the way, have won more Stanley Cups than any other NHL franchise, so they are a legendary team).
Requiem-x
2016-08-20, 13:16
No, it wasn't well-done. It added absolutely nothing to the episode. It didn't add anything that we haven't heard before or can't figure out on our own (like Tempester said last week, we're not brain-dead!) This episode, perhaps more than any other, should have been Aqours episode, all about them, leaving the OG entirely aside.
I didn't mind that at all, but that's merely because of my personal preferences: I focus on the characters, which is why I got upset at episode 3 trying to tell us this girl is this Muse memeber's successor, but this reference did nothing of the sort. Also, saying they laid the foundations for what LL is in the present is not worshipping or pandering, its merely stating a fact, and, unlike the character references, it wasn't directed at the audience, but Chika and the others, who weren't as sure about it as the audience is. How can you speak of LL history without bringing up Muse? That'd come out as much weirder in my opinion.
Triple_R
2016-08-20, 13:29
Also, saying they laid the foundations for what LL is in the present is not worshipping or pandering,
We don't need to hear that again and again. We've heard this all before. It was made abundantly clear in the first three episodes. We don't need to be reminded of it constantly.
Most of the rest of this episode I loved. The big Chika/group moment at the end was excellent. And it helped that this moment was truly about Aqours, and nobody else.
The big Kanan/Mari scene was wonderfully acted and animated, but it could have used more buildup, in my view. Still, it was a strong scene! And why did I like it? It was about Kanan and Mari.
How can you speak of LL history without bringing up Muse?
How about the way Dia did it near the end of Episode 3 when she confronted Chika? Was that more subtle approach out of character for Dia? I didn't think so.
Requiem-x
2016-08-20, 13:39
We don't need to hear that again and again. We've heard this all before. It was made abundantly clear in the first three episodes. We don't need to be reminded of it constantly.
Most of the rest of this episode I loved. The big Chika/group moment at the end was excellent. And it helped that this moment was truly about Aqours, and nobody else.
The big Kanan/Mari scene was wonderfully acted and animated, but it could have used more buildup, in my view. Still, it was a strong scene! And why did I like it? It was about Kanan and Mari.
Why wouldn't it be? Guess my different focus is affecting me here. Well, I just don't see it as much of an issue. Also, Mari probably thought just coming back and reminding Kanan of the old times by helping Chika and the others out would suffice to get her to try again. Unfortunately, she lacks Nozomi's insightfulness (Well, maybe not so unfortunately from a character standpoint).
How about the way Dia did it near the end of Episode 3 when she confronted Chika? Was that more subtle approach out of character for Dia? I didn't think so.
When did this become about being out of character? :confused:
Just because Dia is a μ's fangirl doesn't mean she needs to mention them (or A-RISE) when comforting Aqours over a school idols-related disappointment. One does not necessitate the other.
She's an obsessive geek that studied even the details even advanced fans of the franchise have troubles remembering. The very same Dia that has been even complaining about the pronunciation of a single kanji.
As for your example, if you can avoid mentioning the team from a discussion about history of Stanley Cup, well, props to you, but I doubt it.
We don't need to hear that again and again. We've heard this all before. It was made abundantly clear in the first three episodes. We don't need to be reminded of it constantly.
It doesn't matter how often it was used. It's completely in-character for Dia; it confirms that the bar set by Muse and A-RISE has been moved up; and it doesnt take away from the episode by itself. There are episodes where the references, and nods, and parallels to OG run rampant and get annoying, but this is not one of them.
How about the way Dia did it near the end of Episode 3 when she confronted Chika? Was that more subtle approach out of character for Dia? I didn't think so.
Unless hammering the point home counts as subtle, Dia's never done anything subtle.
Triple_R
2016-08-20, 13:53
When did this become about being out of character? :confused:
It doesn't matter how often it was used. It's completely in-character for Dia;
This is why I'm talking about what's out of character (or not) for Dia. Because R.Lock seems to be arguing that Dia not explicitly referencing μ's in this episode would be out-of-character for Dia. I disagree with R.Lock here, and one reason is this statement that Dia made to Chika near the end of Episode 3...
"This was successful only because of the efforts of previous school idols and the town's good will." - Dia, to Chika, Episode 3
This shows that Dia is capable of expressing school idol history in a subtle way.
ninjastarforcex
2016-08-20, 13:56
rofl that bitchy duo talking big while they are also scrub 9th place :heh:
^Better than 30th with no votes
This is why I'm talking about what's out of character (or not) for Dia. Because R.Lock seems to be arguing that Dia not explicitly referencing μ's in this episode would be out-of-character for Dia. I disagree with R.Lock here, and one reason is this statement that Dia made to Chika near the end of Episode 3...
"This was successful only because of the efforts of previous school idols and the town's good will." - Dia, to Chika, Episode 3
This shows that Dia is capable of expressing school idol history in a subtle way.
Dia's speech is all about the growing scale of Love Live and how what would have been a winning entry in the first Love Live falls short of what is expected of idols in Sunshine. I don't see how Dia, out of everyone else, would just skip out on mentioning Muse and A-RISE in a situation like that.
As I said. It's not subtle. It's Dia taking a hammer and smashing the point home.
zeross87
2016-08-20, 14:18
how can people still don't understand and accept the fact that muse will be referenced over and over in every episode until the last.. its like that, they never hid it, that what sunshine is. like it or not doesn't matter, its like this. so please, no need to have this discussion over and over in every single episode thread (and i'm talking to both side here...)
for the actual episode itself, i think 0 votes was over the top dramatic but whatever. whzn st snow performence started i got the same feeling as watching a-rise, this "yep, girl, no way you can beat this" :D i reallly liked their song.
the rest of the episode was on verge of getting me displeased, a la honoka's depressing mode. glad riko came to save the day =) and yohane felling into the hole :D
i liked that dia finally explained her thinking instead of just flat refusal. i really hope that once integrated to the group kannan will be more like her old self as it would make me like her more.
and i liked that they put the result sheet on display like this, to remember where they started
and to finish : i really like her hair more like this :)
http://i.imgur.com/mL195FP.png
edit : i totally forgot to mention i liked the difference between how the actual "self control" song sounded and when we hear it with just vocal last week, i dunno why but i liked that part.
grecefar
2016-08-20, 14:25
they may act like that but just like a-rise the last season the song is way better that the main group I admit that... anyway is just a step for aqours to come back next time and bitch slap them... now instead of dia being the b... now is kanan, way to go.
Triple_R
2016-08-20, 15:22
I don't blame Kanan for walking by Mari like that.
The 3rd years screwed up royally before. Sure, I get why they did, but nonetheless, that must have been awfully embarrassing and painful. I'm not going to blame someone for not wanting anything else to do with an activity that hurt them that badly. Likewise, Dia is entirely justified in not wanting to get "back in the game".
Finally an episode that i really like and the ChikaXRiko is strong. I can see why You would be jealous of Riko now and we gotten through all the 1st and second year issues, except for You. She is really loosing grounds against Riko being the childhood friend, but so far Chika has gone to Riko to release her feelings. This serious really needs less childish and more of this type of atmosphere. I feel that Riko brings that out just by her natural serious attitude with her own experience at piano competition and her interactions with Chika are always golden. I know you guys hate Muse comparisons, but she really reminds me of Umi. The beach scene in the end was the best and Riko is waifu material for real.
PS: I though the Saint Snow's song was really weak. I didn't like it at all, not even close to any of Aqours songs.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-20, 16:14
Finally an episode that i really like and the ChikaXRiko is strong. I can see why You would be jealous of Riko now and we gotten through all the 1st and second year issues, except for You. She is really loosing grounds against Riko being the childhood friend, but so far Chika has gone to Riko to release her feelings. This serious really needs less childish and more of this type of atmosphere. I feel that Riko brings that out just by her natural serious attitude with her own experience at piano competition and her interactions with Chika are always golden. I know you guys hate Muse comparisons, but she really reminds me of Umi. The beach scene in the end was the best and Riko is waifu material for real.
My first time posting here.. Be kind to me hehe.
Okay, I COMPLETELY agree. I'm glad someone finally said this. Well, not the Riko is waifu part, because You is xD But yeah, You is definitely growing further away from Chika and Riko has taken her place. As sad as this seems, I'm glad to see it since I'm a Youhane shipper and I don't want You to be in the shadow of Chika forever.
Chika is closer to Riko than You due to a pretty obviously stated mentality likeness. (If you didn't catch it, check episodes 2 and 6)
The way they interact despite only having actually known each other for one season at most is why the two are my top two by miles (not that I don't like everyone else in the group!)
You can see You try to get Chika to open up a few times after the event, especially evident on the train ride back. With all her effort and still gets shut down.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-20, 17:01
Chika is closer to Riko than You due to a pretty obviously stated mentality likeness. (If you didn't catch it, check episodes 2 and 6)
I didn't.. And I still didn't.. Please educate this pleb here TTwTT
Unless you mean the yuri aspect? Not sure what you mean by mentality likeness.
You can see You try to get Chika to open up a few times after the event, especially evident on the train ride back. With all her effort and still gets shut down.
That's true. Although I didn't see in that perspective, I saw it as in she was the only who noticed Chika was not being true to her feelings.
You's most significant scene was when she stared at her childhood photo of her and Chika. I think we're onto something here. Maybe she has some kind of complex or something happened in their childhood or she simply thinks about their current friendship versus back then. Whatever it may be, I'm hoping that that wasn't just a random scene but foreshadowing of something deeper. Honestly I'm not sure how much You story/character developemt/character exposition they can still fit till the end of this cour. Maybe next to none, and then they plan it for the next season or something. But we'll see.
grecefar
2016-08-20, 17:05
well even here the childhood friend loses.
You's episode better have Koi ni Naritai AQUARIUM as an insert song or else the episode would somewhat fail.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-20, 17:11
You's most significant scene was when she stared at her childhood photo of her and Chika. I think we're onto something here. Maybe she has some kind of complex or something happened in their childhood or she simply thinks about their current friendship versus back then. Whatever it may be, I'm hoping that that wasn't just a random scene but foreshadowing of something deeper. Honestly I'm not sure how much You story/character developemt/character exposition they can still fit till the end of this cour. Maybe next to none, and then they plan it for the next season or something. But we'll see.
Yep, I see it as reminiscing on old times vs. new. And yeah, I'm kind of worried when anyone's backstory is going to get revealed. We still have Riko, You, and the third years's issues still haven't been resolved. I hate idea that I'm soon going to have to wait more than a week for the next episode..
well even here the childhood friend loses.
Don't see it as a loss! Youhane ftw :')
Akito Kinomoto
2016-08-20, 17:11
I like Chika x You more on a conceptual level, but even I have to admit Sunshine!! has left the latter to the wayside while Riko has more alone time with Chika :sad:
How do you think the 3rd year triangle goes though
ninjastarforcex
2016-08-20, 17:16
riko x nana mizuki the mom
Zero... They gave them a bloody zero! I nearly broke down right then and there. I was bracing myself for the disappointment but I was absolutely not ready in any way shape or form for the absolute viciousness the writers displayed there. That may have been one of the most hard hitting moments in the franchise for me. When Chika-chan broke down at the end of the episode I was 100% ready to break down as well. Brilliantly played Sunrise. Haven't gotten hit by such a large brick since maybe Clannad,it was that high in the emotional gut punch scale.
Damn, now I've got to go wash my face and calm down for a bit. Hopefully the next episode can be a bit lighter and finally sort out the third year situation.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-20, 17:26
You's episode better have Koi ni Naritai AQUARIUM as an insert song or else the episode would somewhat fail.
Well there's already a PV for Koi ni Naritai AQUARIUM :D
Not sure if they've ever used pre-released PVs in the anime before though..
How do you think the 3rd year triangle goes though
Based on character interactions, I'd say the triangle points at Mari. But the ending clip suggests Dia, so no idea.
Well there's already a PV for Koi ni Naritai AQUARIUM :D
Not sure if they've ever used pre-released PVs in the anime before though..
Snow Halation, but that seemed to be a big exception anyway (presenting new songs means more money opportunities, heh).
Did their rival shed a tear in utter disappointment?
Did their rival shed a tear in utter disappointment?
Disappointed in theirselves, because they seem to be very proud people that are hit hard when they lose.
They weren't very happy with them though... (or is it the disappointment of getting 9th?)
SleepingTerror
2016-08-20, 18:04
Snow Halation, but that seemed to be a big exception anyway (presenting new songs means more money opportunities, heh).
Aw oh well. The PV speaks volumes about the RikoChikaYou relationship.
"I MISS YOU" :''''(
discharge
2016-08-20, 18:45
Snow Halation, but that seemed to be a big exception anyway (presenting new songs means more money opportunities, heh).
They also used Bokura no LIVE Kimi to no LIFE. It was the first song they performed with the full group.
They weren't very happy with them though... (or is it the disappointment of getting 9th?)
Ruby: "She was crying. It must have been really frustrating for her, not getting into the winners group."
Yohane: "Still, she didn't have to tell us to not take it lightly."
You: "But we might have looked like we were."
1) They were 9th but they still lost.
2) As friendly rivals, they gave them advice and at the same time they told them that this isn't a game you take lightly. Because they look like they take it lightly, it adds even more frustration since it must feel insulting.
They also used Bokura no LIVE Kimi to no LIFE. It was the first song they performed with the full group.
Thanks, that slipped my mind.
novalysis
2016-08-20, 19:02
You's episode better have Koi ni Naritai AQUARIUM as an insert song or else the episode would somewhat fail.
You's most significant scene was when she stared at her childhood photo of her and Chika. I think we're onto something here. Maybe she has some kind of complex or something happened in their childhood or she simply thinks about their current friendship versus back then. Whatever it may be, I'm hoping that that wasn't just a random scene but foreshadowing of something deeper. Honestly I'm not sure how much You story/character developemt/character exposition they can still fit till the end of this cour. Maybe next to none, and then they plan it for the next season or something. But we'll see.
My thoughts on the You situation:
Have you noticed that, in this episode, Chika is reminded that each of the members of Aqours have their own reasons for joining the club? In truth, Chika offered every member she personally recruited, something for joining Aqours. For Riko, a chance to reawaken her lost muse. For Ruby, the opportunity to pursue her dreams and love for the Sport of School Idols. For Hanamaru, the chance to become a protagonist rather than a background tree. For Yohane, a sanctuary that accepts her as she is, and a stage for the showmanship that Yohane loves.
Chika offered You nothing. You simply joined out of friendship to support Chika. And the hilarious thing is, Riko is providing the emotional support that I am sure You, the childhood friend thinks she should be providing, as this episode makes it clear. It must sting for Chika to open up to Riko, to cry on Riko's shoulder - I am sure a dark corner of You's mind might be thinking: wait a minute, shouldn't it be I, the childhood friend who knew Chika so well, my best friend, that my best friend pours her heart and soul upon? Somewhere, You has lost the position of Chika's confidante, and I have no doubt that the issue of You drifting apart is going to result in a reckoning.
If Mari indeed joins last of all, in a scene similar to the first PV, I'm calling it. You's character arc is slowly being built in the background, and will culminate in Aquarium, which will be the first full 9 Music Video (not just PV) that Aqours produces together. And the great character dramatic arc is how You fears that she is becoming a third wheel between Chika and Riko. Which illustrates the fundamental difference between the different second year trios. Honoka had her trio, with its compromises and closeness to one another delivered for her, a static, largely settled friendship circle, that Muse merely expands and strengthen.
Chika does not get her trio ready made delivered to her, Riko will not simply move into Chika's life and a new, happy equilibrium is established between the second years. No, Chika, You and Riko would have to work out how the newcomer coming into Chika's life figures into Chika's pre-existing relations with her best friend. Aqours has fundamentally disrupted the dynamic between Chika and You, in contrast, it strengthened and extended the dynamic between Honoka, Kotori and Umi.
In other words, Honoka has things freely delivered to her. Chika is not Honoka, will face trials Honoka will never, has a higher degree of self-reflection and awareness than Honoka, and feels the mantle of leadership much heavier than Honoka ever did and will, and puts on the mask of leadership to rally a group together, unlike Honoka who just had to be herself. Their outward arch-typical similarity aside, Chika is probably a masterful case of how you can take an arch-type that is so similar to the original, and spin it so refreshingly differently that new character feels truly different from the original. It was probably from the end of Episode 3 on that we really see how the Honoka archtype is executed so differently that Chika truly feels to be her own person. I dare even the most rabid genwunners of Love Live to call Chika a Honoka clone; sadly, I feel most of them probably dropped this series dismissing Chika as a Honoka clone without understanding how this was a very premature judgement.
I wouldn't even touch on the third year drama - all I can say is that if you are desperate to see Sunshine as a rehash, you'd make the argument it's a repeat of the Nico is a failed idol plot, if Nozomi and Eli were the two companions Nico drove away with her demanding status. Except Nico as a failed idol never had any real impact on the evolution of Muse, and was never a big plot point in the original LL outside Nico episodes, partly because the fractured relations with her two companions on that first failed journey never figured into the plot. The third years as failed idols on the other hand, has an outsized impact on the evolution of Aqours, and I suspect a persistent one. At worse, you could argue that Sunshine is exploring what the original series did not: taking the failed idol plot point brushed away awfully quickly in the original series and making it very critical to the cast and a very critical world-building point. Taking up a plot thread that was never ever executed, merely raised and dropped in the original.
In a sense, I imagine Guilty Kiss is in part an exploration of certain plot threads the original series raised, played for laughs and dismissed as a one episode weirdness. Guilty Kiss is an answer to what happens if an Idol Group choose to play in the genre of KISS as their focus, the metal/hard rock genre. In a sense, Muse dressing Goth Loli shifts from a one episode joke, to the founding premise of a sub-unit that shows it does not have to be a gimmick but a surprising driver of innovation and creativity when done well. I wonder whether (and this is going abit off point) this is the last we'd see of the Gothic costumes that appeared in the Yohane arc, but whether or not Aqours will bring up Sub-units and run with it is a question that will have to await the Third Years joining and if Aquarium indeed is a future arc, for You's issues to be solved. I do have to note that I wouldn't be surprised if Saint Snow is actually a sub-unit of a larger Idol Club, and what Aqours faced was actually sub-units from seeded, veteran Tokyo Idol Clubs, many of whom have won a championship. In a sense, Aqours are a Novice Group in a competition with no Novice bracket.
We only have five episodes left, and I have a suspicion we might not even have the full Aqours group until very close to the end. I don't foresee, and I hope the third year issues are not conveniently resolved next episode. I think with the ending of the Recruitment arc and the Tokyo Arc, we are now moving onto the Third Year arc. And this is is where Sunshine really diverges narrative from it's predecessors - I sense a more arc based approach to story-telling than LL which tended (with exceptions) to be episodic in nature.
blakstealth
2016-08-20, 20:09
MOTHERFUCKERS...Saint Snow's performance and song were fuckin fire. Absolute flames. You bet I'll cop that single if it ever becomes one. Man, I loved it so much.
What I DIDNT love was when the results showed "Aquors.....0." My heart sank. Not one soul voted for them. This was an absolutely crushing defeat. But I guess it was better than what Dia, Kanan and Mari did 2 years ago. So we now know that they didn't even perform or sing because of the powerhouses performing and the pressure dropping on them so hard.
The flashback scenes with the third years as freshman were so fuckin good. So. fuckin. good. Just because they're such different people with different personalities now (kinda). I was so stunned to see Kanan so hyped up and friendly and fuzzy. I'm sure she was like that before the whole Tokyo incident, but still. It's still great to see. It was also fantastic seeing Dia in such high spirits and happy and smiling, too. I want that Dia and Kanan back.
Oh my god, the docks scene with Mari and Kanan was so gut-wrenching when Mari put out her arms in the hopes of Kanan reciprocating her feelings. When she walked past her, I almost blew up. Mari just wants her friends back. Is that so hard to ask for?!?!?!?! ;__________________;
I hope Chika can rebound after this utter loss with a new fire. Maybe they'll take Saint Snow's words with the utmost consideration and approach the school idol game.......as not a game. lol
Given the episode title, I was sort of expecting this. But this still threw me off a little bit.
playmaker2k
2016-08-20, 22:10
This is what I was hoping they would do compared to the OG. A true sport anime with school idols. I hope there's bracket/ranking matches too.
They are going to work their way from zero to the top (like Ippo) with a lot of stumbles on the way with no easy way to victory.
Aqours isn't fortunate enough to have a Nozomi who can strategically place individuals to forming a group. You can blame Yohane for this, but that would be mean. lol
I knew Aqours is going to go through more trials and rivals than Muse has ever faced.
The competition is fierce and unforgiving. We have killers at top who can make Saint Snow cry. Literally.
I have a good feeling this is going to be more than just saving the school. There's a competitive gene that Chika never knew she had until it appeared right before Saint Snow's turn and then the frustration of not getting a single point after their best performance is something very few can move on from. She even held back her tears for the morale of the group, that's a leader. In the end, this experience made the team closer and hungry for the title.
The group getting a zero is not impossible since they're practically unknowns from a small sea village going to the big city where there are School Idols everywhere. It brings to home what Dia said about being lucky they had support from the locals. The reality sets in when you take that stage or field in a Road Game and there's no one on your side when you perform to the best of your abilities because the crowd is playing favorites and won't rooting for you...even if you had an MVP-like performance after the lost. It's a little too close to home for me. lol
The somber moments were well done and it gave a lot of gravity to the situation. School Idols are now serious business. It's almost a perversion of what Muse and school idols were all about. Now it's a high stakes, cut throat competition where School Idols mean-mugged their rivals and advising them to throw in the towel.
The corruption is very enticing and I welcome it with open arms, unlike Kanan. smh Shiny Oneesama's wet melons were waiting for you. Diving. That's your job right? lol
I'm wondering if that's the lesson Aqours will represent in the competition; to bring it back to basics and just have fun out there.
The "big bad" wasn't that bad at all. They're just salty overachievers that got a right cross from karma. They call themselves "Saint Snow" but all I saw was rain. :heh:
But seriously, I like their song and style, but now I want to meet the Top 8 groups that beat them. Please let there be an ojousama group. I need it.
I do have to note that I wouldn't be surprised if Saint Snow is actually a sub-unit of a larger Idol Club, and what Aqours faced was actually sub-units from seeded, veteran Tokyo Idol Clubs, many of whom have won a championship. In a sense, Aqours are a Novice Group in a competition with no Novice bracket..
This would blow my mind.
I really want this to be a thing since the original never worked in the sub-units as much as I would have liked, but it's understandable.
Sunshine has an opportunity to make this happen. Can you imagine a fully animated (non-CG) Strawberry Trapper performance with dat A-RISE/Saint Snow budget?
Just give them the Championship Belt after "Yohane, Shoukan" drops. lol
"Come into my possession"
I agree with your post. There's going to be an arc for You and it's going to be amazing.
Youhane might actually be a thing. You going to be okay there, Nork? :heh:
Ernietheracefan
2016-08-20, 23:41
I guess I'll watching Amanchu after this episode to recovering the wounded heart..
Triple_R
2016-08-21, 00:00
On the topic of Saint Snow, I like how they're going with something truly different with them.
Saint Snow's costume was like a gothic/magical girl mix, and their overall presentation gave off a certain intense edginess, helped by vocals that give off a sort of dark ballad vibe. It's different from any other named group I've seen in the LL series, so that's good to see.
playmaker2k
2016-08-21, 00:07
On the topic of Saint Snow, I like how they're going with something truly different with them.
Saint Snow's costume was like a gothic/magical girl mix, and their overall presentation gave off a certain intense edginess, helped by vocals that give off a sort of dark ballad vibe. It's different from any other named group I've seen in the LL series, so that's good to see.
I still believe Ria (the twintails) is going to be a Little Demon at the end of the series. :heh:
Triple_R
2016-08-21, 00:17
I still believe Ria (the twintails) is going to be a Little Demon at the end of the series. :heh:
You think she's going to fall for Yohane? ;) That would be funny!
playmaker2k
2016-08-21, 00:29
I'm calling it right now. Ria will be a Little Demon. :cool:
The Gothic style. She's more than likely a 1st year since she jumped over them. The Twin-tail (bitter/mean Nico expy) thing she has going on. She even told Aqours not to underestimate LL just like Nico did when it came to school idols. The poop hat, remember? lol
Oh yeah, I picked up on something on a 2nd re-watch. They didn't show the Top 2 spots on the list.
There's a good chance we'll be introduced to them. Sooner than later.
This really is turning into a sports anime. So hype.
pagan poor
2016-08-21, 00:49
Best episode so far. Looks like doing your best and getting curb stomped is better than choking on the big stage. Rest of the series will be the redemption tour for the members of Aqours.
Ernietheracefan
2016-08-21, 02:21
Guys, do you agree if Honoka is Kamina and Chika is Simon...? :D
judasmartel
2016-08-21, 03:27
One explanation to the zero votes Aqours got is that "they're just a no-name group of country bumpkins," nobody (at least in Tokyo) knows them yet. Chill out, people. I'm sure they will come back from 0 votes to become number 1 in LL next season.
But man, sports anime with school idols next season! The hype is real.
Guys, do you agree if Honoka is Kamina and Chika is Simon...? :D
Except that Honoka or any Muse members for that matter are yet to appear this season. But if Honoka does appear to Chika...
Nice Gurren Lagann reference.
That, or they need to stop their rookie group formula, and subvert SS inevitable successor with a School Idol group that's mid tier with pre-established members, where the injection of new members and new leadership leads the club out of the B level doldrums of School Idoling.
My concern with that setup is that it rather lends to competition so stiff the group as a whole might lose its chemistry for its efforts to stay competitive. Would you rather have a solid member you can't get along than a not-so-stellar member you can get along so easily?
Competition for slots in the group (i.e. perform well or you lose your right to be in the group) might take the LL franchise to the Dark Side if the writers are not careful. Nothing's wrong with making the SS successors a mid-tier group which is only good leaders and solid members away from dominating LL, just make sure the competition for slots in the group will not destroy whatever chemistry the group will have.
The rookie group formula is not broken. In fact, I like how I think Aqours will progress. They just need more fans from Tokyo and solid leadership which the third years could provide well to come back to LL with a vengeance.
blakstealth
2016-08-21, 07:01
One explanation to the zero votes Aqours got is that "they're just a no-name group of country bumpkins," nobody (at least in Tokyo) knows them yet. Chill out, people. I'm sure they will come back from 0 votes to become number 1 in LL next season.
But man, sports anime with school idols next season! The hype is real.
The OP says it all. :D
Nachtwandler
2016-08-21, 07:18
You may call me a blasphemer but rival groups in LL always had a better songs than the main girls. This one is no exception.
And I'm glad they did not pull the drama for to long this season.
judasmartel
2016-08-21, 08:39
You may call me a blasphemer but rival groups in LL always had a better songs than the main girls. This one is no exception.
And I'm glad they did not pull the drama for to long this season.
Every single time.
The rivals are always stronger than the heroes, ofc to keep the underdog theme.
I'm so hyped for the next LLSS now. Sports anime with school idols.
novalysis
2016-08-21, 09:47
Just a bit of devils advocating here: why doesn't ARISE represent proper Sports anime rivals, while Saint Snow does? I do agree with your thesis - it seems the Sports genre inherent in Love Live's premise is going to be more heavily emphasized as opposed to the original.
I hated Saint Snow when they were introduced last week, but their performance in this episode won me over. They can back up their smugness. Their song is my favorite in the entire Love Live series, but that most likely has more to do with the fact it appeals to my taste more than the regular songs (pop-rock rather than plain j-pop) than the song being genuinely better than everything else. Anyway, I really loved it and it was nice to see something different for once. They get bonus points for not CG dancing too.
I was shocked Aqours got 0 votes, but this serves as a good reality check and a wake-up for Chika who really needed it. She really was just playing around until now, and therefore had no business participating in competitions.
Benigmatica
2016-08-21, 10:34
@Kanon
Well, I won't blame the judges and the audience for not giving Aqours any points as they're considered as µ's wannabes in-universe.
However, I believe that Aqours will become great if they learn their mistakes!
Triple_R
2016-08-21, 10:53
Aqours' lack of success isn't that hard to understand.
One thing to remember here - idol performances aren't just about the singing or the song. It's also about the costumes, and the dance choreography, and maybe other elements as well. This is probably part of the reason why they showed Saint Snow doing a back-flip. That's a somewhat useful talent for a school idol to have, as it can impact dance quality.
Aqours' Episode 6 live performance had a lovely song, but like a couple of us mentioned, the costumes are a little plain and the dancing was almost lethargic-seeming.
I now strongly suspect that these were weaknesses intentionally incorporated into Aqours' performance (by the Director/writers/animators) in order to make their lack of success believable and understandable.
It's important to divorce personal taste/satisfaction from technical quality here - It might help to use figure-skating as an analogy. I don't necessarily need to see a bunch of triple-axels in order to really enjoy a figure skating program. But when all the elite figure skaters do them multiple times in one performance, then a particular competitor not doing them at all means she has no chance whatsoever against other elite/serious competitors. And when you watch 30 different serious competing groups back-to-back, then just basic appeal or nice-sounding doesn't cut it any more. There's a certain threshold of technical quality that has to be reached or you'll simply stand out as weaker than the rest.
A truly great idol live performance has it all - Excellent song, excellent costumes, excellent dance choreography, and ideally something about it that's particularly memorable or "stand out" (a certain artistry when it comes to how you use lights, say). Aqours is fine on the singing front, but they have loads of room for improvement in dancing and costuming. And Aqours is very good for a group just doing this for fun, and Aqours is good enough if they just want to put on pleasing performances for their local community. But at a national competitive level, there are things they need to work on.
novalysis
2016-08-21, 11:10
Aqours' lack of success isn't that hard to understand.
Aqours' Episode 6 live performance had a lovely song, but like a couple of us mentioned, the costumes are a little plain and the dancing was almost lethargic-seeming.
I think you are one of the first persons to make the connection between the seeming mediocrity and sedateness of Episode's 6 performance (nice touches with the lanterns compensating), and Aqours total failure in the Tokyo exposure event. I have a suspicion that it's not just the weakness of episode 6's dance that is deliberately meant to set up 8. I think alot of the seemingly annoying parts of the show, such as the constant Muse referencing by Chika and company, is foreshadowing of how such Muse worship is a recipe for failure.
It's almost a meta-commentary by Saint Snow to Aqours here, a self-critique of the Muse referencing that Sunshine indulged in. Of course, if Muse referencing still continues at the same rate at Episode 9 and beyond.... I would like to think that Sunshine is now past the point where parallels to Muse and the original series can be drawn, and the show has entered Terra Incognita.
I think you are one of the first persons to make the connection between the seeming mediocrity and sedateness of Episode's 6 performance (nice touches with the lanterns compensating), and Aqours total failure in the Tokyo exposure event. I have a suspicion that it's not just the weakness of episode 6's dance that is deliberately meant to set up 8. I think alot of the seemingly annoying parts of the show, such as the constant Muse referencing by Chika and company, is foreshadowing of how such Muse worship is a recipe for failure.
It's almost a meta-commentary by Saint Snow to Aqours here, a self-critique of the Muse referencing that Sunshine indulged in. Of course, if Muse referencing still continues at the same rate at Episode 9 and beyond.... I would like to think that Sunshine is now past the point where parallels to Muse and the original series can be drawn, and the show has entered Terra Incognita.
That's actually an idea I've been musing* over after watching the episode. Maybe, just maybe, all the muse references have been, as you pointed out, a way to setup a particular plot point of Aquors having to overcome their fixation with the original girls and become their own thing. I won't claim the show made particular fantastic work passing that message but we have to admit it was effective even if it was as subtle as a sledgehammer to the face.
But who am I kidding, Love Live has never been a franchise know for subtlety and it's only been getting worse the further it goes so its no surprise how almost overbearing the Muse referencing has been.
Now if the show really tones down the muse references from here on out then we can put down this hypothesis as a fully supported theory. I have a feeling that, like the low key PV a couple of episodes back, all this is planned. I remember debating this very same point when it came to the composition of Muse vs A-Rise in the original show and how the former songs always sounded more raw and natural than the highly produced and absolutely professional sounding songs that the latter group performed.
Love Live is a very meticulously developed multimedia franchise that leaves hardly any detail to chance, let us not forget that. In a couple of days time we all may very well be praising this show as the second third fourth coming :p
*100% intentional there :heh:
pagan poor
2016-08-21, 12:01
A-Rise reminded me of a K-pop group. Saint Snow reminds me of Babymetal (ironically the members of Babymetal and the VA for Ria were in idol group Sakura Gakuin.)
Ernietheracefan
2016-08-21, 13:27
That's actually an idea I've been musing* over after watching the episode.
*100% intentional there :heh:
I'm amused..:p
I hate to see Ruby crying, because it's heartbreaking.:sad:
PS: when the sun was came out, I was expecting Million Clouds to be played instead of the ED..:heh:
areyoubaka
2016-08-21, 16:50
What really irked me this week was that it was Riko who comforted Chika, not You. You's been Chika's best friend since childhood, so therefore it would've made much more sense (imo) for her to comfort Chika at her lowest, rather than someone they've known for a month or two at most. While on the topic of Riko, it'd be great if the writers gave her more interactions with the rest of the group - her scene backstage with You last week was great for this reason.
blakstealth
2016-08-21, 18:53
Can we all just take one moment....just one moment.
https://66.media.tumblr.com/36ef4c02340359a052b5372c48370a20/tumblr_oc916vPEhW1uynbq0o1_1280.jpg
Akito Kinomoto
2016-08-21, 19:11
Can we all just take one moment....just one moment
Oh my kokoro...
By the way I too have also believed Aqours was going to get a reality check eventually and even Saint Snow's remarks to tell them to stop trying to be like Muse is reinforcement in its own way. This episode is a major turning point for them and Chika especially. Hopefully...
B-but it's not like she's become my favorite Aqours girl or anything...
judasmartel
2016-08-21, 19:49
Just a bit of devils advocating here: why doesn't ARISE represent proper Sports anime rivals, while Saint Snow does?
A-RISE are more of a friendly rival to Muse, so the competition between them isn't that stiff, both will be happy for the other if either of them won LL. The sports element is still there because although they are basically "allies", they will still compete against each other with everything they got.
Saint Snow makes for a more proper sports anime rival for Aqours because they represent the classic "favorite opponent team" to Aqours' classic "underdog hero team". Saint Snow is basically the Paul to Aqours' Ash.
Triple_R
2016-08-21, 21:26
What really irked me this week was that it was Riko who comforted Chika, not You. You's been Chika's best friend since childhood, so therefore it would've made much more sense (imo) for her to comfort Chika at her lowest, rather than someone they've known for a month or two at most. While on the topic of Riko, it'd be great if the writers gave her more interactions with the rest of the group - her scene backstage with You last week was great for this reason.
Here's my take on this: You is used to being able to motivate Chika, and ironically lift Chika's spirits, by asking something very blunt and challenging and on-the-nose.
"So are you going to quit?" - You
"No I'm not going to quit!" - Chika
You see this sort of thing 2 or 3 times in Sunshine's first 3 episodes. And this has always worked for You and Chika. So You tries it again in this episode.
"Isn't it frustrating?" - You, "Are we giving up? Are we giving up being idols?" - You
So You is trying her usual approach to cheering up Chika. It's just not working this time, when in the past it would work. It's not working for two reasons:
1. Chika and You have probably never before faced a disappointment on this level. Chika probably because she's never thrown herself into anything this competitive before, and You because You's considerable talent at diving/swimming means that You has probably never lost this badly in that area of competition. So neither of the two has any experience with this level of defeat. So it simply hurts too much for Chika to do the usual quick bounce-back to You's short blunt challenging questions. And one reason why it hurts too much is...
2. This time, You is asking these questions for Chika's sake and You's own sake as well. And Chika is probably picking up on that. You wants to be reassured herself, whereas in the past, You asking these questions was purely to perk Chika back up. These types of questions are just too harsh for Chika this time around, partly since Chika definitely doesn't have it in her to seriously reassure You right now. Both girls are hurting.
Now, who has experienced defeat on this level before? Riko has. As was made clear back in Episode 2. So Riko's personal experience here means she's better able to reach out to Chika and comfort Chika given the specific circumstances here.
One could also argue that Chika's personality is just more similar to Riko's than it is to You's, but I think I'd like to see more of all three girls before taking a firm stance on that.
So anyway, yeah, that's my take on it. I still hope to see You shine more in the future, as I think her character has maybe been downplayed too much since Episode 4 or so. But all the same, I think what I wrote basically explains why Riko was able to comfort Chika here while You wasn't able to do so as effectively.
Just a bit of devils advocating here: why doesn't ARISE represent proper Sports anime rivals, while Saint Snow does? I do agree with your thesis - it seems the Sports genre inherent in Love Live's premise is going to be more heavily emphasized as opposed to the original.
The 2nd half of LL Season 2 decided to focus more on group bonding, sadness over group ending nearing (due to 3rd years graduating), and the main group's story at a very personal level. That's the defense I get whenever I've criticized the Snow Halation episode, anyway. :heh: A-RISE could have easily been a strong/conventional Sports Anime rival, but LL Season 2 decided to go in a different direction from the Nozomi episode on.
My biggest issue with LL Season 2 is that they never gave μ's vs. A-RISE the climax it deserved, as all the other pieces were there for a very good sports anime story. So that's one area where Sunshine can clearly outdo its predecessor.
What really irked me this week was that it was Riko who comforted Chika, not You. You's been Chika's best friend since childhood, so therefore it would've made much more sense (imo) for her to comfort Chika at her lowest, rather than someone they've known for a month or two at most.
As much as I want to agree that it would have made more sense for You to be the one to comfort Chika, objectively it doesn't make that much sense. There is no way that You could have woken up early enough just to take the first bus (if it even comes that early) and make it to Chika before Riko could. The thing is that Riko is Chika's direct neighbour so she is literally footsteps away from her.
Like Triple_R, let me offer my own interpretation of the You x Chika dynamic:
I suspect that her lack of screentime is completely intentional. This can be used to make a point that You feels out of place in Aquors. She is just someone who tags along. This is evidenced by her doubt that Chika wants to continue being a school idol, almost as she herself feels like it's not a thing for her. Hence why she asks if Chika wants to quit.
You sees herself as someone who has to support Chika find something in life that she can truly enjoy. In the flashback to their childhood in ep 1, You was very popular with everyone and she was shown to be a talented swimmer. Chika only looked at her on the sidelines like an unimportant mob who has nothing in comparison. You probably picked up on that so as her best friend she feels responsible, or maybe she feels like she owes Chika her support. But in return, while she now supports Chika's idol thing, she might view it as something that only Chika fully embraces but not herself.
And don't forget that You is still a part time club member. I could be wrong that You is still a part timer, they may have simply transitioned her full membership passively in during the episodes. But if you remember, back in episode 1 she explicitly told Chika that she will split her time 50/50 between the school idol club and her swimming club.
Thinking back on the OG (yes, sorry for referencing it myself now haha), Rin had one of the best OG episodes. I was absolutely awestruck when everyone supported Rin and she ended up wearing that beautiful dress, that episode made me see her in a new light. Quite frankly, if they gave just one proper episode focusing on You in a similar way, that could very well become the greatest SS episode for me. The only thing I am worried about is that they might not give us that episode/arc until season 2.
novalysis
2016-08-22, 08:25
I personally think that everything in You's character arc is building up to the scenes referred to in the Aquarium PV. For me, the deal-maker would be if one of the last scenes in the First PV, where 8 members of Aqours run up to a Mari walking away from the school and persuade her to join, indeed plays out at the end of the First Year arc; making Mari the last member to join. If that scene does pass, I think then the an arc adapting the events depicted in the Aquarium PV, centered on You would be the logical culmination.
Given how so much of Sunshine has imitated the structure of the first season of Love Live (which has exposed it to tremendous criticism); I think that in some ways, if the season ends with the issue of You being a third wheel that has been steadily building up over at least five episodes, that is Sunshine's equivalent of the Kotori situation. I have no doubt that if the season ends with You and the Aquarium scenario, that such an arc would automatically be criticized by many as an imitation of Kotori.
Even if, in sharp contrast to the Kotori arc in the OG arc, a crisis in You does not even put the club remotely in mortal danger; and ends with the production of Aquarium, the second music video Aqours produces and the one that actually helps them re-stabilize their footing after the Tokyo debacle; and unite the third years with the club decisively but by no means brings Aqours a qualifying berth in Love Live (it secures them in the top 100 though, and the opportunity to be invited to more promotion preliminary events like the Tokyo event) . And even more, still leaves the School is closing scenario utterly unresolved and an issue for the second season, unlike the fact that resolution to the school is closing scenario is about to arrive at this point in the original Love Live.
That would be a veeeery dumb criticism considering that this issue has been building up from the beginning of Sunshine compared to Kotori getting a letter out of nowhere.
Triple_R
2016-08-22, 09:04
Given how so much of Sunshine has imitated the structure of the first season of Love Live (which has exposed it to tremendous criticism); I think that in some ways, if the season ends with the issue of You being a third wheel that has been steadily building up over at least five episodes, that is Sunshine's equivalent of the Kotori situation. I have no doubt that if the season ends with You and the Aquarium scenario, that such an arc would automatically be criticized by many as an imitation of Kotori.
"You being a third wheel" is very different from Kotori's situation in LL Season 1. Kotori never felt like a third wheel, that wasn't Kotori's issue at all. Kotori's issue is that she had a chance to pursue a personal dream in another country, which would tear her away from her friends that she felt very close to.
If You was to decide to leave for another country in the hopes of improving her standing as a diver/swimmer, that would be very similar to the Kotori situation. But if this is primarily/solely about You feeling like Riko is taking her place in Chika's life, then that's very different from the Kotori situation. Kotori never felt like someone was taking her place in Honoka's life - Quite the contrary, LL Season 1 Episode 9 strongly reaffirmed the closeness of the three 2nd years.
Sunshine essentially having a friendship/love triangle would in fact be a very different direction for this series. I can't recall anything quite like it in the OG.
Speaking personally, I'd only go with a "copycat" criticism against a You drama arc if it went out of its way to closely mirror the Kotori arc of LL Season 1. And this would involve either You deciding to leave to go far away, or certain scenes seeming like Chika/You were literally acting out LL Season 1 scenes. I honestly very much doubt either of that happens.
This isn't to say I'd necessarily love a You drama arc - Execution is important as always, of course - but the basic idea of it is perfectly fine with me. In fact, I think it has good potential and You's character would probably benefit from it.
novalysis
2016-08-22, 09:59
"You being a third wheel" is very different from Kotori's situation in LL Season 1. Kotori never felt like a third wheel, that wasn't Kotori's issue at all. Kotori's issue is that she had a chance to pursue a personal dream in another country, which would tear her away from her friends that she felt very close to.
I completely agree with you on that particular point. Making the claim that any You drama arc is meant to be a repeat of the Kotori arc is a rather superficial stance to take, even if like the Kotori arc, a You-Aquarium arc is Sunshine's end-season post third year recruitment scenario.
If You was to decide to leave for another country in the hopes of improving her standing as a diver/swimmer, that would be very similar to the Kotori situation. But if this is primarily/solely about You feeling like Riko is taking her place in Chika's life, then that's very different from the Kotori situation. Kotori never felt like someone was taking her place in Honoka's life - Quite the contrary, LL Season 1 Episode 9 strongly reaffirmed the closeness of the three 2nd years.
A potentially fun way to play with a You is leaving scenario, would be for the stakes to be as high as basically being a potential Olympic Swimmer/Diver that has a good chance of representing Japan in the future. Followed by the subversion that it doesn't immediately impact whether or not You remains with Aqours, because this is a University Scholarship being offered to You in advance after High School and hence out of the immediate range of Sunshine. You is not being asked to choose between Aqours and being an Olympic Swimmer here.
What this offer does however, is to make You realize that the end of her childhood entails moving out from Chika, but also use this realization to examine the state of her childhood friendship and realize that this process already seems to be happening, with just how close Chika is getting with Riko and how Riko is replacing You in Chika's life right now.
Which immediately leads to a personal crisis of what she should be doing in relation to Aqours, and how much commitment she should make to the club she helped co-found. Now that it is up and running, does she need to remain in Aqours given that she joined to support Chika? That might be the trigger point for the Aquarium scenario, using the Childhood Friend is leaving scenario differently from the original series but that's just one speculation
Sunshine essentially having a friendship/love triangle would in fact be a very different direction for this series. I can't recall anything quite like it in the OG.
I agree. I think that while the Riko recruitment episode in Episode 2 does seem to partly echo the Maki arc, the impact of that particular incident is extremely different, because of the whole idea of the new kid seemingly replacing a member of a childhood duo. It will be entirely plausible for Sunshine to turn around and say - look, a new person doesn't simply enter into the confidence of one member of a pre-existing childhood pair of friends without some kind of resolution. Duos do not magically become Trios.
Speaking of Trios, I wouldn't be surprised if any You arc is in part also a Kanan redemption arc in the eyes of the audience, and a highlighting that the Kanan-You-Chika trio has a utterly different dynamic from Kotori-Umi-Honoka. Kanan might well act as any crucial mediator for the issue of You getting sidelined in favor of Riko in Chika's life.
Again, just more speculation of what a You/Aquarium arc might entail, if it's LLSS end season scenario.
Speaking personally, I'd only go with a "copycat" criticism against a You drama arc if it went out of its way to closely mirror the Kotori arc of LL Season 1. And this would involve either You deciding to leave to go far away, or certain scenes seeming like Chika/You were literally acting out LL Season 1 scenes. I honestly very much doubt either of that happens.
Well, the pessimist would point to all the Muse referencing in the first 7 episodes as evidence for the plausibility that Sunshine will go out of it's way to mirror the Kotori arc. Personally, I think they really, really would have to go out of their way to mirror the Kotori arc, and given that the entire set-up of the Trio and Riko is so different from the character dynamics of the original series, and the fact that LLSS excels very much at logical character development much like it's predecessor, I don't think it will mirror the Kotori arc.
The risk of course, is that they make the stakes too high - for example, it's either You leaves now, or loses her chance of becoming an Olympiad in favor of staying and remaining in Aqours. That will damage the plausibility to any You stays in Aqours resolution. But I think I have hopefully managed to illustrate how even invoking You leaves does not have to result in You leaving NOW, as in within the time-frame of Aqours as a group; and it's one way to run You leaves without following the Kotori arc, even if it pays homage to the arc as a source of inspiration. In the same way, I'm very certain that the Third Year arc is inspired by Nico's backstory of failing as an idol, but this time is tightly connected to the formation of the group as a whole, and used as a point to illustrate the Post-Muse School Idol landscape; rather than a one episode affair that only resurrects itself in Nico's second season episode but otherwise is unconnected to the bigger plot.
This isn't to say I'd necessarily love a You drama arc - Execution is important as always, of course - but the basic idea of it is perfectly fine with me. In fact, I think it has good potential and You's character would probably benefit from it.
Hopefully, if a You Drama/Aquarium arc is run as the end season scenario (and I think there are too many hints building up in the background for it not to be run) , the execution will give the season an excellent send-off. I am cautiously optimistic that the writers can do it, Episode 8 does give me reason for this optimism.
You is the big glaring exception right now in Aqours, since Chika in some ways offered Aqours as a means to something each member in Aqours really wants (Riko for Music, Ruby for passion, Hanamaru for Agency, Yohane for acceptance). And if this theme continues for the Third Years (Mari to re-live once more the intense bonding experience she so much treasures from her time as a School Idol, Dia to regain her lost passion, Kanan, I presume, to truly pursue her wishes to protect her juniors, but I'd wait for Episode 9 to ascertain Kanan's full intentions) ; then You sticks out as a sore thumb.
Again this is all speculation of course, and I will be interested in knowing what other alternate end-season scenarios might be run. To me, the leading candidate for the Post-Third Year arc, is a You arc, and it would cap off what I see as the true essence of Sunshine this season (assuming multiple seasons) - explaining why and how each and every girl came to be committed to the Aqours project.
There probably isn't time this season to explore how Aqours goes beyond imitating Muse to being it's own fresh entity which the anime does acknowledge with Saint Snow criticisms in Episode 8, and which the writers in my view, have implicitly promised the audience that this issue would be redressed down the line, and I think this is going to be a second season issue. I personally think the answer to that issue, might be for Aqours to realize Muse tightly conformed to a particular genre of music, and instead, Aqours covers a wider range of genres, which opens up way more musical possibilities for them to make themselves fresh.
I wouldn't be surprised if the issue of Aqours being it's own entity rather than a Muse ripoff is where Mari's love for Industrial metal comes in - that Aqours does have the personnel capable of participating in not just the traditional Muse lighter, standard idol ballads that so far, Aqours have conformed to; but also to perform in the Pseudo-Kawaii Metal (Babymetal) and Hard Rock styles that I think Saint Snow is a hint has begun to be a major competitive force. I would even say that Guilty Kiss songs (Strawberry Trapper and Guilty Kiss, Guilty Knight) were meant as a feeler to see how accepting the audience would be if Aqours was to be more musically adventurous and make forays towards the direction of non-traditional genres in the idol industry, such as Electronica and Metal. And that fact that Guilty Kiss is the best performing sub-unit right now probably means that the next Aqours songs post-first season might be more diverse - the traditional genres are still covered, but there are full Aqours pieces that go very hard into Rock.
But this is longer term speculation for the franchise direction that I think is more appropriate to explore further, for a Sunshine speculation thread.
Darthtabby
2016-08-22, 12:20
I realize the staff would never have the guts to actually do this given how much this show worships U's, but I think it would have been really effective if Dia had said something to the effect of "Even U's would probably have trouble competing today."
Triple_R
2016-08-22, 12:33
I realize the staff would never have the guts to actually do this given how much this show worships U's, but I think it would have been really effective if Dia had said something to the effect of "Even U's would probably have trouble competing today."
Ok, this line of thinking is really getting overplayed a lot.
The overall depth of competition is certainly greater now than it was during the first 2 Love Live competitions, but good grief, we're talking a few years. :heh:
Plus, I don't see anything lacking in μ's best performances, including in technical quality areas (Snow Halation, for example, is excellent across the board). μ's were great in their time, and they'd still be great in Aqours' time if μ's were still all teenagers.
But here's an important factor with school idol performances - You have to put your own heart and passion and personality into it. You have to have your own story to tell. That adds some "Oomph!" to the performances, and makes them resonate more.
Imitators usually pale compared to the original because the original has that added personal spark to it. Just think of Elvis Presley impersonators and the original real deal. While there's a lot of really good Elvis impersonators out there, there's nothing quite like the King of Rock 'N Roll himself.
So yes, Aqours should try to do their own thing.
Requiem-x
2016-08-22, 12:41
I realize the staff would never have the guts to actually do this given how much this show worships U's, but I think it would have been really effective if Dia had said something to the effect of "Even U's would probably have trouble competing today."
I think that was very much implied through Dia's explanation: Muse opened the floodgates and everyone else stepped up. Its not crazy to assume that, in this new, more competitive enviroment, that same level will not have the exact same effect. I'm not saying full fledged, drama free Muse would get destroyed like Chika and co. did, mind you, but they might not reach the top or at least legend status. Hell, the blatant new A-rise still has ways to go, I think that sends a clear message.
@TripleR Now you got me thinking, you believe Aqours is going to get its own slogan episode eventually?
Triple_R
2016-08-22, 12:54
I think that was very much implied through Dia's explanation: Muse opened the floodgates and everyone else stepped up. Its not crazy to assume that, in this new, more competitive enviroment, that same level will not have the exact same effect. I'm not saying full fledged, drama free Muse would get destroyed like Chika and co. did, mind you, but they might not reach the top or at least legend status.
I think μ's would still reach the top and achieve legend status. μ's top performances were excellent, very beautiful, and I don't see any real weaknesses in them. It probably would have been harder for them to do it in Aqours' time, but I think they would have done it.
One of the key reasons for my position here - People are still talking a lot about μ's and A-RISE, five or more years after they left the school idol scene, with current groups not even getting a mention until Saint Snow arrived. That speaks to lasting greatness, even compared to the current top stars.
That's to take nothing away from Aqours. Yes, Aqours is facing a tougher road to greatness than μ's did. μ's had one major obstacle - A-RISE. Aqours may well have multiple major obstacles.
So when it comes to school idol competitions, Aqours may well surpass μ's.
@TripleR Now you got me thinking, you believe Aqours is going to get its own slogan episode eventually?
Probably, yes.
Darthtabby
2016-08-22, 15:17
The overall depth of competition is certainly greater now than it was during the first 2 Love Live competitions, but good grief, we're talking a few years. :heh:
Plus, I don't see anything lacking in μ's best performances, including in technical quality areas (Snow Halation, for example, is excellent across the board). μ's were great in their time, and they'd still be great in Aqours' time if μ's were still all teenagers.
But here's an important factor with school idol performances - You have to put your own heart and passion and personality into it. You have to have your own story to tell. That adds some "Oomph!" to the performances, and makes them resonate more.
Imitators usually pale compared to the original because the original has that added personal spark to it. Just think of Elvis Presley impersonators and the original real deal. While there's a lot of really good Elvis impersonators out there, there's nothing quite like the King of Rock 'N Roll himself.
If the number of competitors balloons tenfold, I can image the bar being raised considerably in just a very short timeframe.
Did you see any flaws in Saint Snow's performance? It doesn't strike me as an imitation of someone else's performance, and it packed plenty of "oomph" -in fact I'd say its sheer intensity makes is rather unique among Love Live performances. Yet they placed ninth in what appears to be a relatively minor competition.
Don't take this as a knock on U's. (Well okay, you can maybe take it as a knock against Sunshine's tendency to constantly put U's on a pedestal. :heh:) I'm reminded of a criticism someone on another forum leveled against the modern Olympics. He noted that nowadays, the performances of past Olympians are being regularly equalled, but that those past Olympians had lives outside the Olympics.
Triple_R
2016-08-22, 15:46
Did you see any flaws in Saint Snow's performance?
Not in their song or their costumes. Their dancing is fine, but has room for more quickness and difficulty and energy. I'd put A-RISE's Shocking Party and μ's No Brand Girls ahead of Saint Snow's performance in this episode when it comes to the dancing quality of the performance. Other areas will have viewer subjectivity come into play once a certain threshold is reached.
At the very top, subjectivity is highly important. Different audiences, different music genre preferences, different costume preferences can all play a big role. I don't doubt that μ's style would eventually seem dated and no longer viable. Would that happen in just 5 years? Well, that would depend on the number of other groups copying them. It is possible that μ's style is viewed as overused and an uninspired choice by Aqours time (sort of like how many anime fans feel about isekai stories ;) ), and audiences might be tired of it, which would be a good reason not to copy them if you're going competitive.
That being said, Kotori is a tremendously talented costume-maker, and Maki is very talented at composing music. If μ's had to adapt, I think they could. Would it be harder? Definitely. But we shouldn't underestimate the considerable talent within μ's - A-RISE made that clear in Season 2 Episode 3.
In some ways, this can make Aqours journey more dramatic and impressive. Does You have the same talent for designing costumes as Kotori does? Is Riko as good at music as Maki is? Is anybody in Aqours the dancer that Eli is? Aqours has a harsher starting point, and is more of an underdog in my view. So the potential is there for a very strong underdog "rags-to-riches" story with Aqours.
Now this was a good episode. Somewhat predictable - I thought since last week that they either might fail the same way as Dia and co. or would finish dead last - but nevertheless well-executed. The part with the 0 votes was a bit overplayed, but they really wanted to represent the message with starting from zero (to hero). The Ruby/Dia dynamic was done very nicely, Dia's gained sympathy points with me, and Chika's frustration portrayed well too.
Having said that, I'm a bit tired of the zero-to-number-one story, I'd absolutely applaud the writers if they had the guts to write a compelling story about a heated competition for the top-spot but not have Aqours finish on top. Won't happen, but I'd still love to see a story like that. A lot of people work their butts off, a lot of people contend for the top spot, but in the end only one ends up on top, those second/third/fourth placed ones deserve a story too. :heh:
Song quality can only be so objective, don't you think? You judge it like there are different power levels a la DBZ :heh:
You can absolutely judge song quality from a technical standpoint. Like with many other things though you need to be familiar with the details. For example, I received some degree of vocal training in classical music in my youth so I have a solid ear for vocals and thus when I really focus on it I can deconstruct a vocal performance in a way that people without this background wouldn't even notice. Well, usually though I shut off that part of my brain though when listening to pop music, it's a different standard after all. :heh:
Though sometimes it becomes rather hard, it's really the big reason why I just couldn't get along with Kotori's singing in the original series. The way Uchida Aya squeezed her voice to fit Kotori was just too obvious and the effects of the loss of volume and softness just too stark. This is not to say that you can't produce a high-quality voice with such kind of manipulation but you need a certain measure of training (just look up the stuff professional countertenors can produce :heh:).
SleepingTerror
2016-08-22, 20:36
Regarding when You will get her breakthrough episode, I almost suspect it will be the OVA. It's a little farfetched, but take a look at these cd covers:
http://st.cdjapan.co.jp/pictures/l/03/29/LACM-14471.jpg
http://suisei.kokidokom.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/love-live_muse_music-start.jpg
There's a resemblance, and Music S.T.A.R.T. was the OVA theme. Of course, plot wise, this makes absolutely no sense. But I can dream :D
The way Uchida Aya squeezed her voice to fit Kotori was just too obvious and the effects of the loss of volume and softness just too stark.
Isn't this also subjective? "too obvious" "too stark"
Yes you can use a technical standpoint to justify why Kotori sounds bad, but I actually love her voice. No amount of music study can change that.
Isn't this also objective? "too obvious" "too stark"
Yes you can use a technical standpoint to justify why Kotori sounds bad, but I actually love her voice. No amount of music study can change that.
You apparently have gotten neither the original post, nor my comment on that. It's possible to produce a song that subjectively sounds lovely, but from a point of technical scrutiny is fairly rough. For example by using a very simple melody, letting the seiyū hold back their voices and so on, so that when you make a side-by-side comparison after the end of the series you can say "hey, they've come a long way".
As for the Kotori voice thing, I never said my impression is objective and that you can't like it. The issue is just that for me with my different angle it's hard to look past the technical stuff when it's as obvious as that with the flatness of the sound. When Uchida Aya uses a more natural voice in singing the effect is quite different.
Liddo-kun
2016-08-23, 07:51
Watched episode 8:
Wow, the competition is intense. Even the serious Saint Snow failed to get to top 8. Expectations from fans must have levelled up a lot after Muse and A-Rise made school idols even more popular.
Hmm... so that's what happened to the third years. They cannot even sing when they got to Tokyo. :(
Oh, and Shitake did not chase Riko this time. Well, they can't allow that kind of comedy to ruin the sad mood of this ep.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-23, 14:12
You apparently have gotten neither the original post, nor my comment on that. It's possible to produce a song that subjectively sounds lovely, but from a point of technical scrutiny is fairly rough. For example by using a very simple melody, letting the seiyū hold back their voices and so on, so that when you make a side-by-side comparison after the end of the series you can say "hey, they've come a long way".
It's kind of hard to get your comment when you keep using terms like "fairly rough" to describe an objective point.
Thank you for the explanation, but I'll stick to subjectivity.
Wow, the competition is intense. Even the serious Saint Snow failed to get to top 8.
It would be bad if they did make it to the top, since their performance was good, but it doesn't impress you after seeing how good A-Rise was. They had the same backdrop as A-Rise, but the camera composition, sleek body movement, and custom was lacking badly. A-Rise was very much polished with their constant moving, even though it wasn't in sync, they still moved as a group. It's just soo many small details and the camera tilting, panning, and lights work well with their dark clothing and bright pink outline was much more professional on A-Rise.
Good episode for me. I mean, I really felt I was watching a different show even if there were some references.
A good wake up call for the girls, and we even got like... 5 or 10 seconds of Kanan! :) I'm finding pretty difficult to find a BG so far, although if I were You I would be pretty pissed when realising that my best friend has completely replaced me with the new girl in town (even when she's as adorable as Riko is), but it's good to see that she's is who understands Chika the best
Obviously Riko is best grill.
blakstealth
2016-08-23, 19:37
She can't be best gril if she can't handle hot dogs.
Triple_R
2016-08-23, 19:47
She can't be best gril if she can't handle hot dogs.
Beautiful, just beautiful. :heh:
It's close between Chika and Ruby for my own favorite Sunshine girl. This episode did a lot for Chika for me.
Now that we've devolved out of seriousness I'll start posting again :heh:
Chika was already my best girl by a long shot and the episode pretty much put the nail in the coffin. The next episode will pretty much hammer the nail unless Kanan has the best character development in a single episode of pretty much any anime ever.
Dia shot pretty high up my lists, but Riko is still 2nd best, and I can't make up my mind where to rank Maru/You/Dia atm. Ruby is a tiny distance behind them. I wish I could put Kanan higher but she just doesn't really have the development beyond not wanting her 2nd year friends to suffer disappointment.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-23, 23:01
You and Yohane are my best girls. You won me over before the anime started with her salutes, and then I saw what a sweetheart she was when the anime began so best girl became confirmed. Plus she's weird and cool. Yohane won me over with her quirkiness. Also both have my favorite character designs :3
Dunno if this was an issue for anyone but with Aqours I had a much harder time choosing. I mean, you don't have to choose, but it's always fun to have favorites.
Eisdrache
2016-08-23, 23:06
Isn't this also subjective? "too obvious" "too stark"
Yes you can use a technical standpoint to justify why Kotori sounds bad, but I actually love her voice. No amount of music study can change that.
You can love her voice but how is that related in any way to the technical aspects of her singing? I'm not even sure what you're arguing about since you're looking from a completely different angle.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-24, 00:00
You can love her voice but how is that related in any way to the technical aspects of her singing?
Technical aspects of singing is an objective view of singing. Yet subjective terms were being used to describe it, which confuses me.
https://secure.static.tumblr.com/23d189c09d75a1738b014f455fd016a5/jd8cyab/fxxoax9nh/tumblr_static_1ych16g3tcys48w4k048gk0s0_640_v2.gif
Hello peps! Finally gotten some actual Internet at my new studio and finally been catching up on some anime backlog. First on the queue is Sunshine.
Yeah, I thought as much seeing how hard they crashed and burned in this episode. To me, the song is pretty much a great song, but I guess a slow inspiring ballad ain't gonna cut it in the idol competition world. Should have pull out Aqours Heroes but I digress. Saint Snow's performance was pretty good. The song is definitely closer to J-Rock vs A-Rise's almost K-pop like song.
I applauded Chika for putting on a brave face, but really don't bottle it up too long Chika or else you'll get wrinkles like Kanan (shots fired :p). You know, I'm really loving the sister dynamics between Dia and Ruby as the show goes along, I went d'awwww... when Ruby went running into Dia crying, and the scene at the beach afterwards (certainly beats the Jogasaki sisters relationship :P). It also confirms what we had suspected all along, that what Dia was trying to do is to stop the girls from hitting that wall called disappointment. At least she did give out some words of encouragement and a reality check on what it means to be a school idol after the legacy that muse and A-RISE have left behind.
Well, now they have tasted bitter defeat at 0 all that's left now is to go up to 1 from there. Yeah nice nod there to Step! Zero to One.
Next episode, hopefully more Kanan screen time for you Kanan fans.
In the meanwhile, please have a You story arc in season 2. I know season 2 is coming.
Going by sound technicalities, is Shuka singing in her real voice or imitating her characters? Because it sounds almost as bad as Kotoris' imitation. I am not too familiar with the Aqours voices, but in Muse, I think Rin and Umi sound decent imitating their characters.
Imitating might not be the best word to describe the seiyuu playing their characters voices. I just can't think of anything at this time.
Eisdrache
2016-08-24, 12:32
Technical aspects of singing is an objective view of singing. Yet subjective terms were being used to describe it, which confuses me.
But you don't disagree with anything he said. The meaning of the argument is the same for both of your positions and all you're doing is arguing over semantics. :rolleyes:
(hooray for correct use of the word)
I should probably say something about the episode too. Saint Snow's song is great. The choreography though is slightly off, something that seems to be the case for all songs this season. Aside of that the development of getting 0 votes > going home > finally getting frustrated > venting it at the beach seems a bit rushed for me. On the other hand I'm glad that it's over so we don't have to go through another Honoka again.
The best part was of course Kanan actually having a line.
Sagitta Luminis
2016-08-24, 13:20
I had trouble with my computer, so I only watched the episode today. Wow, I did not expect my heart to be crushed so hard so many times
SleepingTerror
2016-08-24, 14:25
But you don't disagree with anything he said. The meaning of the argument is the same for both of your positions and all you're doing is arguing over semantics. :rolleyes:
(hooray for correct use of the word)
Yes, basically. It sounded a lot like someone passing an opinion off as fact. Which is why I replied, to clear things up for me.
The best part was of course Kanan actually having a line.
Yes indeed. Though it doesn't exactly portray her in a good light, and for that she's probably my least favorite girl right now :/
Akito Kinomoto
2016-08-24, 16:40
Mari = Dia = Ruby >= Hanamaru >= Chika >= Riko > Yoshiko > You
Yoshiko's fallen off a long ways while the latest episode bumped Chika and Riko significantly. You has little presence, and Kanan's still in the neutral until further notice
am I the only one who doesn't like Chika and Ruby? They seem to be everyone's favourites but I just can't find the appeal...
am I the only one who doesn't like Chika and Ruby? They seem to be everyone's favourites but I just can't find the appeal...
Nope, everyone's favorite is Yohane, but her character is super annoying to me. If she is a in still picture and isn't talking or making ahegao faces, then she is fine. Ruby is a bit too moe and You just has a bad voice. Other than that, the rest of the cast is good in my book.
In my case I find Yohane as Mss Fanservice, all legs ;) I don't know why, because we haven't seen much of them, but I think that apart from Riko (the "main" character with Chika's permission) I like You and Hanamaru the most
SleepingTerror
2016-08-24, 17:39
Chika doesn't appeal to me because the main characters of any series don't appeal to me 99% of the time. She does have my favorite voice of the cast though, along with Yohane. Ruby is okay. She's cute but I like Hanamaru more.
As for Yohane, I absolutely adore her xD
I think Riko is the most popular, but not significantly as Maki is.
blakstealth
2016-08-24, 18:38
I think Riko is the most popular, but not significantly as Maki is.http://i.imgur.com/0JWYnbE.gif
SleepingTerror
2016-08-24, 19:21
http://67.media.tumblr.com/8b0f69c612caeaa16a199f0bbd6ced63/tumblr_nvvdhwUTDc1ub78oao1_500.gif
Triple_R
2016-08-24, 20:07
am I the only one who doesn't like Chika and Ruby? They seem to be everyone's favourites but I just can't find the appeal...
I like Chika and Ruby a lot because my favorite relationship dynamics in this show are Chika/Riko and Dia/Ruby. Chika gets an edge because I see interesting potential in her leadership style, and Ruby gets an edge because she's definitional moe (i.e. makes me want to protect her :heh:)
Mari is probably the most appealing character all on her own, as she has beauty and style and charisma. But I'd like to see how she comes across as an Aqours member before she shoots up my list.
Requiem-x
2016-08-24, 21:03
I like Chika and Ruby a lot because my favorite relationship dynamics in this show are Chika/Riko and Dia/Ruby. Chika gets an edge because I see interesting potential in her leadership style, and Ruby gets an edge because she's definitional moe (i.e. makes me want to protect her :heh:)
Mari is probably the most appealing character all on her own, as she has beauty and style and charisma. But I'd like to see how she comes across as an Aqours member before she shoots up my list.
I'm having a similar situation with Dia: I want to put her at the top, but I want to see her unbound from drama first. I mean, its obvious Kanan will be the one going through the Eri level of change, but still, more evidence of her awesomeness would be great.
Right now, I'm honestly having problem deciding for a top girl, though I've been thinking of Chika a lot lately because of the last episode. Maru and Yoshiko are tied for the cutest, though.
novalysis
2016-08-24, 21:33
I find that Chika's been rapidly climbing up my list, since about episode 6. Largely, because her entire character arc of assuming the mantle of leadership and learning to lead is being done so well, and largely because of how self-aware she is of what she's going through right now.
For the first time in her life, expectations are being placed on her, people are counting on her, people have invested confidence and time into her project, she has promised her team members things they want through that project and so on - in other words, this is the first time she really has responsibility. And it's an alien experience to her, and it is understandably terrifying, and it is to Riko she shares to the audience what lies beneath that Genki mask. The most remarkable thing is that she is leading partly with a mixture of deliberation built on-top intuitions of what she thinks a leader should be, and without any mentor guiding her through that experience; though thankfully, with a friend who understands the pressures Chika. And I think it's safe to say, that the very first friendship of her Adult life is with Riko.
Leading Aqours for her is a coming of age experience, and Sunshine has written Chika such that she realizes this is her maiden leadership experience extremely quickly. Chika is at that transition point where one's childhood starts bleeding into adulthood. I'd dare say the first adult experience that happen in her life, was after running around the school gleefully noting the parallels of their school's situation to Muse - and then every member of Aqours essentially rallying behind her and then asking: what next? I don't think it's a coincidence that Chika starts sharing with Riko the pressure she feels after that point.
So yes, Chika is rapidly climbing up my favorites in ranking here. And I think that the writers are planning for her to undergo one of the most substantial character development out of the entire cast.
But if you were to ask for my ranking favourites, it would still be Yohane, Mari and followed by Chika than Hanamaru (Chika having recently overtaken Hanamaru) , and pending the third year arc concluding, Dia. I can easily see myself writing another post highlighting how Yohane Chuuni antics (which we know, she is fully aware of) is actually the first year parallel of Chika putting up a brave front for the entire group.
ninjastarforcex
2016-08-24, 21:37
I find that Kanan's been rapidly climbing up my list... just kidding XD
Used this (http://kachagain.com/llsif/idolsorter.php) to sort through and it kind of fits I guess:
1) Zuramaru
T2) Riko
T2) Ruby
4) Dia
5) You
6) Chika
T7) Yohane
T7) Mari
(I excluded Kanan from the list, she was also T2, but I haven't seen enough of her in the anime to make a judgement)
To provide some comments, Yohane's low ranking is because I can't get along with expressive chūni-antics. To me they are cringeworthy, doesn't matter whether it's Yoshiko now or Rikka in Chūnibyō. Mari places low because I just consider her character overdone. Between the faking of the accent and her being the chairman of the school I can't rank her over the others.
Dia has gone up the list due to the recent development while You's lost a couple of spots, she really needs a characterisation episode at some point.
I though that i would write my current impression on the show since it has changed drastically after the past 2 episodes. What impresses me was how well the studio has upped their game in fixing what the first two season lacked. The original didn't have very good characterization at all, it was mainly the Honoka/Kotori/Umi trio and that was still fairly weak. Sunshine is very much dynamic with the Kurosawa sisters, Chika and Kanan, then we have Dia, Mari, and Kanan all intervened in their little setting. There is relationship in the age gaps and they all had their own little story and drama. Most of the characters have been friends or colleagues since childhood, even Yohane and Hanamaru and that's what made Sunshine stood out over the original.
The better story and character was a great welcome, but they also brought something new that i just hated. This was the main reason why i was soo harsh about the beginning of the series. The overreacting and overacting in the beginning was what killed me, it was very unnatural and gave the impression that everyone was on speed, especially the first 2 episodes. I also think that this was the main reason why people dropped the show early as somebody new to the franchise or even viewers from the original series. Add the overly use of Muse reference and i pretty much lost hope in the series after episode 5, but i was still going to watch it since i am a fan of LL. At the same time, things were actually slowing down and all that overacting was gone as the story progressed. The show suddenly left the childish atmosphere and started to have the girls become more serious in LL and find out that the world isn't fair. More of the 3rd years back story also gets revealed and the show literally took a 360 turn. If they continue on with how things are, Sunshine will undoubtedly be much better than the original and we aren't even done with season 1 yet.
Right now i still have complaints and the main one is their voice. They harmonized very good just like a real band does, but i think that is a weak point for a show that is much more character centered than just their music. When you listen to a musical bands, you don't really care about the actual singers life so it doesn't matter, but in a drama like this, you want that. The harmonizing makes it very hard to distinguish who is singing, unlike with muse, who don't harmonize, but you can clearly tell who is who. Then there is the solo parts that is very unimpressive when compared to Eli, Umi and Rin. The only voice i really like is Riko and i believe she is the voice that ties the group together, she is the Umi of the Aqours. Riko does well singing on her own and even better when paired with just about anyone else, the only solo album i look forward to from Aqours. You has the most disappointed voice of the group, she is easily the most pleasing to look at, but her singing is atrocious. I initially liked You in the promo, but the more i hear her voice, they worst it got. It sounds like they are forcing her to squeeze the notes from her throat to match her character. How do you even describe her voice?
PS: I still think Yohane is cringe worthy.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-25, 10:13
Voice is never a reason I use to dislike a character. Experience has showed that people can actually have those sorts of voices naturally and for me, it's against my morals to hate someone, even a fictional character, even when acting, based on their voice. It can be a reason to love character though, of course.
Akito Kinomoto
2016-08-25, 10:20
The original didn't have very good characterization at all, it was mainly the Honoka/Kotori/Umi trio and that was still fairly weak. Sunshine is very much dynamic with the Kurosawa sisters, Chika and Kanan, then we have Dia, Mari, and Kanan all intervened in their little setting. There is relationship in the age gaps and they all had their own little story and drama. Most of the characters have been friends or colleagues since childhood, even Yohane and Hanamaru and that's what made Sunshine stood out over the original
Sunshine!!'s cast is more interconnected and the 3rd year drama is building three characters compared to OG's 1, but girl-for-girl the OG isn't weak
http://i.imgur.com/1ggThpW.jpg
Voice is never a reason I use to dislike a character. Experience has showed that people can actually have those sorts of voices naturally and for me, it's against my morals to hate someone, even a fictional character, even when acting, based on their voice. It can be a reason to love character though, of course.
Have you heard Satomi Arai's Kuroko Shirai? :heh:
Although I don't hate any of the Sunshine!! voices either
PS: I still think Yohane is cringe worthy.
There were actually a lot of surprised (JP) comments on Yohane having a very good singing voice when episode 5's solo ending queued in. That didn't happen to anyone else yet afaik so I believe Yohane's voice, at least her singing one, is probably better than you make it out to be.
SleepingTerror
2016-08-25, 10:28
Have you heard Satomi Arai's Kuroko Shirai? :heh:
Yes I have, and she's still one of my favorite characters, if not my top girl from Railgun.
There were actually a lot of surprised (JP) comments on Yohane having a very good singing voice when episode 5's solo ending queued in. That didn't happen to anyone else yet afaik so I believe Yohane's voice, at least her singing one, is probably better than you make it out to be.
I didn't mean her voice, but her character is annoying.
I didn't mean her voice, but her character is annoying.
Fair enough. :p I do know some people who for the love of god cannot stand Nico from OG either, so... I guess there just has to be that 1 char that make people go "ew".:heh:
The overreacting and overacting in the beginning was what killed me, it was very unnatural and gave the impression that everyone was on speed, especially the first 2 episodes.
To add another POV, I felt the first episode was a perfect showcase of what Aqours are all about. After the audio dramas, I would have been very disappointed if the entrance episode was any different.
Riko does well singing on her own and even better when paired with just about anyone else, the only solo album i look forward to from Aqours.
Chika, Yohane, and Maru will probably make you change your opinion.
PS: I still think Yohane is cringe worthy.
Then she does her job well. I never found her acting cringeworthy, though, compared to nico-nico-nii~ on my first bingewatch of OG. And her Yohane voice is just... perfect.
There were actually a lot of surprised (JP) comments on Yohane having a very good singing voice when episode 5's solo ending queued in. That didn't happen to anyone else yet afaik so I believe Yohane's voice, at least her singing one, is probably better than you make it out to be.
She's the only one to sing the ED by herself though, so there's that. I can see where Pen3's coming from. It's noticeable on the higher-pitched parts where the tone is squeezed and flat plus a tad nasal. Nothing that bothers me in particular though since as mentioned I tend to be rather generous in terms of pop music.
Have you heard Satomi Arai's Kuroko Shirai? :heh:
Kuroko is a saint compared to Flora in Gakusen Toshi Asterisk. She drove people insane. :heh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nobR6D6tz7Y
novalysis
2016-08-25, 18:36
There were actually a lot of surprised (JP) comments on Yohane having a very good singing voice when episode 5's solo ending queued in. That didn't happen to anyone else yet afaik so I believe Yohane's voice, at least her singing one, is probably better than you make it out to be.
I personally think Yohane's low voice is what makes her stand out - frankly, at higher pitches, King/Hanamaru basically is the much singer. Which is why I prefer Yohane's singing in Guilty Kiss songs, as oppose to Aqours songs, because Aqours songs tends not to employ Yohane's low voice. Yohane's low solos on the other hand are just amazing.
Also, here's a thought: both Riko and Yohane are in the same sub-unit, Guilty Kiss - and I think we do see excellent synergy between both voices in songs like Strawberry Trapper. I wonder what pen3 thinks of Riko in the Guilty Kiss context?
Also, here's a thought: both Riko and Yohane are in the same sub-unit, Guilty Kiss - and I think we do see excellent synergy between both voices in songs like Strawberry Trapper. I wonder what pen3 thinks of Riko in the Guilty Kiss context?
I don't like Yohane as a character, but have no quarrels as a singer. I don't have to deal with her exaggerating shenanigans when she is singing. She can crawl on the floor and do crazy faces all she wants, it doesn't matter because i am just listening to the music.
playmaker2k
2016-08-26, 00:21
I personally think Yohane's low voice is what makes her stand out - frankly, at higher pitches, King/Hanamaru basically is the much singer. Which is why I prefer Yohane's singing in Guilty Kiss songs, as oppose to Aqours songs, because Aqours songs tends not to employ Yohane's low voice. Yohane's low solos on the other hand are just amazing.
Also, here's a thought: both Riko and Yohane are in the same sub-unit, Guilty Kiss - and I think we do see excellent synergy between both voices in songs like Strawberry Trapper.
Riko and Yohane's voices compliment each other really well in Guilty Kiss, Guilty Night too. It probably has something to do with their seiyuus always hanging out. :heh:
I can't wait to hear a Yohane single. If her solo in Strawberry Trapper is a sample of what to expect, it's going to be Gothic and Glorious.
Mari's solo is going to sound something off of BabyMetal. Her voice is both high and powerful at times. I know Ainyan can do it.
blakstealth
2016-08-26, 05:52
Kuroko is a saint compared to Flora in Gakusen Toshi Asterisk. She drove people insane. :heh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nobR6D6tz7Ygod, why you gotta bring Flora in this safe community?
zeross87
2016-08-26, 13:22
what happened off camera during ep 8 kannan x mari scene :
http://i.imgur.com/6b6eRa3.jpg
:heh:
SleepingTerror
2016-08-26, 17:46
#Diari
#TeamDia
blakstealth
2016-08-26, 18:00
what happened off camera during ep 8 kannan x mari scene :
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/6b6eRa3.jpg[IMG]
:heh:what a stern face...desu wa
Liddo-kun
2016-08-27, 06:30
what happened off camera during ep 8 kannan x mari scene :
<snip>
:heh:
Haha. Good one there. You deserve a cookie.
Looks like the result the love triangle has been decided. ^^
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