Mobile Suit Gundam: Iron-Blooded Orphans Episode 40 Discussion / Poll

[RRW]

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__________

[Irenesharda]

:T_T::T_T::T_T:

This episode was just so visceral. I...I honestly need a moment. And Iok....you have earned the title of being one of the most HATED characters in all of Gundam.:frustrated:

Naze and Amida lived as they died, together. And it was one of the sweetest and yet most heart-wrenching scenes I've ever seen. This actually tops all other death scenes in the series thus far.

Seeing Naze on that suicide course just reminded me of the death scene of George Kirk in Star Trek. He knows he"s going to die but he just keeps going. And then everyone"s reactions...it just cuts right into your heart. :(

I'm going to have to give this a full review later, after I calm down. :upset:

[tdx]

That was every bit as brutal and cynical as Arianrhod's setup in Dorts. Iok is... I think many of us are discovering a new level of hate for him, even if we previously thought that it was impossible. Ordering his men to pretend not to see multiple surrender signals from Hammerhead, skewering the transport ships with civilian members of the Turbines that tried to escape with the forbidden Dainsleif spears, declaring that this senseless slaughter a showing of the king' might... Iok really is the culmination of everything that's wrong with the current rotten GH, and this is not even an exaggeration.

We can't be sure he's dead yet either, because we didn't see if Hammerhead destroyed the bridge of his ship or just damaged it further. Goddamit.

Julietta is such an idiot. Her desperate lust for power is driving her mad. If she doesn't realize anything in the wake of Amida's sacrifice and seeing how repulsive Iok is, she'll end up the same as Ein, for sure.

Those predicting that Gusion and Flauros (and Raiden-go, too) will get their time to shine with Barbatos out of action guessed right, although their screentime was little. And this is the first time I have respect for Shino for coming up with that plan to go on their own to help civilian members of the Turbines escape under the pretense of testing their boosters so that Tekkadan is not involved and outlawed like the Turbines as a result. (Oh, and Akihiro's misunderstanding of Lafter wanting to strangle him to death when what she meant to hug him tightly lol)

Naze disbanding the Turbines and asking Barriston to take care of the women by getting them jobs under Teiwaz as his last request... It's conceivable that some of those women might join Tekkadan next, as some predicted.

And then we have Orga who in the beginning is outraged that Barriston pretended like nothing was wrong and ordered him to stay put because his making a move would put Teiwaz in danger. Well, with how Orga is seen stopping Eugene in the PV and clenching his own fists to stop himself at the funerals, unlike before his revenge this time will be a cold dish, served in a calculated but still brutal manner. That single manly tear is gonna cost Jasley a world, I'm sure. And he now has a grudge against Barriston, too, for not doing anything to help Naze, so yeah, Tekkadan separating itself from Teiwaz intensifies.

[RES-01 Perses Gundam]

Without definitive, on-screen confirmation that Iok is finally out of the picture, I just hope a later episode will give us the pleasure of watching him tortured, desecrated, dissected before he is allowed to expire away into nothingness. You know, typical villains meeting their downfall usually elicit relief because they are so vile, scheming and generally helped push our beloved protagonists to the edge of their lives. They exist for the greater good of the plot. But Iok is just... a fucking thorn in the flesh, a pest who is clearly out of his league, obnoxious and downright detestable. It's an insult that our favourite secondary characters have to meet their demise while up against that cockroach, made even more distasteful by how the latter is most likely still alive and kicking, and pathologically wired to do more harm to the world he's so ill-adept for. I don't care who pulls the trigger but:

PLEASE RID THE WORLD OF IOK NOW.

[asaqe]

If you want even more reason to root for McGillis' faction and consider Rustal's faction as the horrific old guard that needs to be put down then this is it. We are reminded why Rustal's factions are the antagonists and that McGillis episode by episode looks less like a villain and in a sense right. Rustal's faction had gotten revenge for the humiliation at Abrau, DHC and the Hasmhal Assault by removing the Turbines from the picture. People wanted Tekkadan to face losses and this was it, we are reminded of how dangerous Rustal is as a threat.

Even with the evacuation plan there were still casualties in this fight for the evacuees with the bridge crew counted among the dead, this mission didn't just shown us that Gjallarhorn is cruel we are reminded of what perils the crew faces when they were all female crews. If the show wanted to show how cruel Gjallarhorn is, Iok would have ordered boarding actions with the usual horrors awaiting them but Okada has directly avoided running over every dark plot device I would have think of.

As the Dansleif myth said, this is the move that pushes the small slight into full out war between the two factions and after Jasley is taken care of the war against Elion's faction is going full swing.

[Irenesharda]

That was every bit as brutal and cynical as Arianrhod's setup in Dorts. Iok is... I think many of us are discovering a new level of hate for him, even if we previously thought that it was impossible. Ordering his men to pretend not to see multiple surrender signals from Hammerhead, skewering the transport ships with civilian members of the Turbines that tried to escape with the forbidden Dainsleif spears, declaring that this senseless slaughter a showing of the king' might... Iok really is the culmination of everything that's wrong with the current rotten GH, and this is not even an exaggeration.

We can't be sure he's dead yet either, because we didn't see if Hammerhead destroyed the bridge of his ship or just damaged it further. Goddamit.

Julietta is such an idiot. Her desperate lust for power is driving her mad. If she doesn't realize anything in the wake of Amida's sacrifice and seeing how repulsive Iok is, she'll end up the same as Ein, for sure.

The thing is, I think that she does know that what a piece of crap he is, but she's so consumed with her own obsession that she no longer cares about whatever he's doing as long as it serves her quest to become stronger.
A quest that she's failing seeing as Amida was able to hold up pretty well against her in a pretty old suit at that. As much as I loved Amida, she would have never lasted against Mika going all out. If Julietta wants to get to Mika level, she's got a long way to go.

As for Iok, on one hand, somehow despite his idiocy, his plan actually succeded. However, considering all the war crimes he commited in doing it, cancels out all that and in fact puts him in the negative zone. Firing on ships that have already surrendered, purposefully firing on civilian transport ships, and using illegal weaponry to do it? How low can you sink?:twitch:

And then we have Orga who in the beginning is outraged that Barriston pretended like nothing was wrong and ordered him to stay put because his making a move would put Teiwaz in danger. Well, with how Orga is seen stopping Eugene in the PV and clenching his own fists to stop himself at the funerals, unlike before his revenge this time will be a cold dish, served in a calculated but still brutal manner. That single manly tear is gonna cost Jasley a world, I'm sure. And he now has a grudge against Barriston, too, for not doing anything to help Naze, so yeah, Tekkadan separating itself from Teiwaz intensifies.

On one hand I get where McMurdo is coming from, but at the same time, I also get Orga's anger. It's sort of that Spock vs Kirk clash of mentalities. The good of the overall mission and group vs facing and conquering the odds because we don't leave a man behind.

During his entire time as leader of Tekkadan and even as leader of the third group, Orga has scrapped, fought, and sacrificed for his men, sure some of his men die and he's had to carry that. But he's never purposefully abandoned men under him if he knew he hand the power to help them. Here, while I understand that McMurdo was looking out for the good of Teiwaz, I think there is definitely more he could have done. Especially considering that he could have nipped this in the bud earlier by dealing with Jasley, who has been rather obvious in his animosity. Sure it might be fine to begin with as boys will be boys, but as years past and that animosity grew, you should have known that it was going to come to a head.

I also think that McMurdo could have thought of something else, some way of sending Naze help. I mean, Shino can't be the only one who thinks of a plan to "test boosters", come on.

One thing we do know is, I think that McGillis might get quite a few more willing volunteers to join his revolution as I think quite a few Turbine girls are pretty pissed. :cool:

[Azurial]

No words to say just pure manly tears dropping :(. Kinda see it mioe away of Naze and Amida death im quite prepared but is too much. :(....RIP Naze and Amida IBO death bring more emotion then all other gundam series out of all gundam series this one hit me the hardest.

Next episode will talking episode and funeral ceremony T-T.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

My god this episode........

It's a bloodbath on the Turbines' side.

Those of you who said that Iok will go easy on civillians of Turbines (aka women & children), well...you can kiss that theory goodbye. Like I said in previous thread, Iok doesn't give a shit. He'll shoot them all and kill 'em all like a crazy-version of Yzak Joule. But of course his character is lightyears worse than Yzak. Somebody need to castrate this sunovabitch. Death is too nice for him.

[tsunade666]

Just die already IDIOK. Darn, that guy still manage to evade his ship from the suicide charge.

R.I.P. Naze and Amida. Super strong episode. The Feels are strong.

Dainsleif weapon is OP. Such long range. It covered from the other side of the asteroid, until it reached the escaping ships.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Dainsleif weapon is OP. Such long range. It covered from the other side of the asteroid, until it reached the escaping ships.Well, in space, if you have a harpoon-like weapon that can pierce through anything, all you need is a good aim and a good kick and it will reach and screw your target no matter how far it is (unless the harpoons pass another source of gravity).

[asaqe]

My god this episode........

It's a bloodbath on the Turbines' side.

Those of you who said that Iok will go easy on civillians of Turbines (aka women & children), well...you can kiss that theory goodbye. Like I said in previous thread, Iok doesn't give a shit. He'll shoot them all and kill 'em all like a crazy-version of Yzak Joule. But of course his character is lightyears worse than Yzak. Somebody need to castrate this sunovabitch. Death is too nice for him.

And Galieo is shaping up to be a monster as well. This src we saw Iok's cruelty but now that the war is in full swing he is going to show how far revenge takes a man

[Boukenxha]

What a scumbag, I'm raging hard and crying even harder.

URGGHHH! Can't believe Iok won't die at once for what he's done.

RIP Naze and Amida.

[devilo96]

Damn it that idiot iok......why he still alive argh.....this what u call plot amor in gundam series....
Please god make sunrise open their eyes...please just kill that idiot
Now i really hope today rating will be bad as fuck
Pfft
Last wish naze to old man teiwaz...
Let me guess naze want all his girl and the rest of turbines will become orga power to complete orga wish...
Even naze die he still remember orga and he still give orga the rest of his power...

Damn why sunrise why....

Fix orga will be the one who kill Iok

[Overmars]

If Iok is still alive after this, I hope McGillis is the one to kill him.

[Knight_SV]

or perhaps iok will be lupus rex first victim on his debut

[Irenesharda]

Damn it that idiot iok......why he still alive argh.....this what u call plot amor in gundam series....
Please god make sunrise open their eyes...please just kill that idiot


No, it's not plot armor, its that at this point, it would be too quick, too easy. We need to make him suffer.

Hit him where it hurts: his supposed honor and pride. Rustal is going to be furious with him, he actually has hurt the both of them with what he's done. He can now legally be arrested and his entire family shamed. We need to take down and dismantle everything he cares about, and only then, do we kill him. And in the worst way possible. :D

[kgrodriguez]

I'm sure im not the only one who laughed and face palm when Iok's subordinate asked him if they should change the bridge into combat mode, and Iok responded in the most Iok-ic way.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I'm sure im not the only one who laughed and face palm when Iok's subordinate asked him if they should change the bridge into combat mode, and Iok responded in the most Iok-ic way.Yes, you're not the only one. I can see Talia Gladys from SEED Destiny smacking Iok in the face for that one response alone :heh:.

[asaqe]

No, it's not plot armor, its that at this point, it would be too quick, too easy. We need to make him suffer.

Hit him where it hurts: his supposed honor and pride. Rustal is going to be furious with him, he actually has hurt the both of them with what he's done. He can now legally be arrested and his entire family shamed. We need to take down and dismantle everything he cares about, and only then, do we kill him. And in the worst way possible. :D

Or Rustal giving zero shits seeing its Teiwaz and the smug self satisfaction that he humiliated Orga and reminded him how powerless he is under the new rule

[StratoSpear]

In hindsight, there was really no other way this was going to end.

The pair is pretty much cemented with each other and there was no separating them. Not even deceit. They're that accustomed to each other.

[Irenesharda]

Or Rustal giving zero shits seeing its Teiwaz and the smug self satisfaction that he humiliated Orga and reminded him how powerless he is under the new rule

I don't think Rustal knows much about Tekkadan and Orga other than just what you could read on a data sheet and what ViGali told him. His entire focus has been on McGillis, which is where Idiok's was until suddenly gaining a sudden hatred for Tekkaden all of a sudden.
But you have to remember back to when Rustal turned his back on Iok during the council meeting. While he may be crooked and evil himself, he is a stickler for order and he warned Iok already.
What the idiot did this time would definitely not qualify as upholding order, even if it was against Teiwaz, especially since he did it in such an obvious way. This is the kind of thing that would just piss him off.

[akumaten]

Naze....Amida
You've shined beautifully and became a nebula

IDIOK......IF YOU AIN'T DEAD!!!!
He's the Katejina of IBO. Death is too easy for him, and life is too easy for him. I want his livelihood destroyed before he dies
Jarsly...YOU'RE NEXT!

[Skye629]

Well fuck me, Iok just keep ascending to new heights of hatred, I dont think I have ever seen a Gundam antagonist that keeps rising up the ladder with each consecutive appearance



+1 for Shino showing some real brains this episode



And damnnn Amida kept up with the Julia in a Standard Hyakuren for the most part, I cant wait to see what Azee and Lafter will do against it in their Hekija's

[asaqe]

I don't think Rustal knows much about Tekkadan and Orga other than just what you could read on a data sheet and what ViGali told him. His entire focus has been on McGillis, which is where Idiok's was until suddenly gaining a sudden hatred for Tekkaden all of a sudden.
But you have to remember back to when Rustal turned his back on Iok during the council meeting. While he may be crooked and evil himself, he is a stickler for order and he warned Iok already.
What the idiot did this time would definitely not qualify as upholding order, even if it was against Teiwaz, especially since he did it in such an obvious way. This is the kind of thing that would just piss him off.

But now that McGillis' hand is forced he can fight McGillis head on. His previous attempts at covert warfare, from the DHC fight, the Abrau campaign, hell even the suggestion that they want to destroy an Hashmal for a Seven Stars Order were failures, yet this move was an unexpected play from Iok as it removes a pillar of support and pushes Orga into a desperate corner. This move was the first true victory for Gjallarhorn.

Under Rustal, no one would have the balls to Danslief but with Iok and his charisma they are more than willing to fire the weapon for the glory of Gjallarhorn.

And now, among the named dead are Naze, Amida and Chloe and Blid Turbine (two of the bridge bunnies who got killed when the freighter was hit from oxygen loss)

[Ryuuoh DeltaPlus]

Faark

if only amida managed to shoot twice before she died!!!!

[Skye629]

I feel extreme pity for whichever Gjallerhorn pilot with the rotten luck of being the Lupus Rex's first victim

Orga's rage and sorrow is Mika's





Im inclined to believe Iok lived, if they truly wanted to kill him off they would have explicity shown his death. Or at least thats what I think

[Skaddix]

I seriously doubt Iok removed from power. Mostly because it sets a dangerous precedent. No Lord wants voting others out to get normalized. Considering the setup Rustal did on Dort to crush innocent civilians well Iok didn't do much worse. I am confused about one thing, Julietta feeling relief was she actually worried Iok was going to die or something? Iok is not dead. Naze kinda missed anyway, no body no death people.

Orga will have his revenge. Mika was already plotting his kill plan. As for why they didn't send more backup as stated the cover was a training exercise. You cant send a bunch of troops and ships and then call it a training exercise. People need to remember that Protag Gundams are far more balanced in this series. There is no 1 v Army. Especially since we just found out that normal mobile suit weapons don't do anything to Ships. Tekkadan is elite sure but they are no match for the amount of firepower even Iok got.

Amida and Naze relationship goals. And dang Amida outclassed Julietta hard. Granted we only seen her fight once and that wasn't her going all out. So it was hard to rate her.

[devilo96]

sigh~ next eps no more action again.....now i really miss the old gundam style...when we get action every 1 or 2 eps with the battle duration is more than 1 or 2 minutes

even IBO 1st season the last 2 eps cant compare with the last 2 eps of gundam 00
i mean the last 2 eps gundam 00 is so badass

now 8 eps until this series finish
hope we get full action in the next 8 eps...

[blakstealth]

I'm sure Iok survived. That would've been too easy. This way, his suffering will much sweeter.

Really really sad that Naze, Amida, and a lot of Turbines' crew lost their lives. I knew Naze was out the window, but the civilians were a surprise. I doubt Iok knows or even cares that he shot at civilian ships, but it's still sad.

I am confused about one thing, Julietta feeling relief was she actually worried Iok was going to die or something? Iok is not dead. Naze kinda missed anyway, no body no death people.


I interpreted that as the relief that Julieta wasn't able to take down Amida, so her getting disabled by those rounds gave Julieta relief that she was immobilized. But at the same time, she's disgusted by feeling that way since she couldn't take Amida down herself.

[Skye629]

I seriously doubt Iok removed from power. Mostly because it sets a dangerous precedent. No Lord wants voting others out to get normalized. Considering the setup Rustal did on Dort to crush innocent civilians well Iok didn't do much worse. I am confused about one thing, Julietta feeling relief was she actually worried Iok was going to die or something? Iok is not dead. Naze kinda missed anyway, no body no death people.

Orga will have his revenge. Mika was already plotting his kill plan. As for why they didn't send more backup as stated the cover was a training exercise. You cant send a bunch of troops and ships and then call it a training exercise. People need to remember that Protag Gundams are far more balanced in this series. There is no 1 v Army. Especially since we just found out that normal mobile suit weapons don't do anything to Ships. Tekkadan is elite sure but they are no match for the amount of firepower even Iok got.

Amida and Naze relationship goals. And dang Amida outclassed Julietta hard. Granted we only seen her fight once and that wasn't her going all out. So it was hard to rate her.

They are sending more. As Shino stated they would rush out FIRST which they did using the boosters. Their yellow transport/carrier ship is probably following up

[Irenesharda]

After getting a chance to calm down, all I can say is that that was one emotionally charged episode.
I cried at the end, as the music, the visuals, the emotion was just so heavy.

Iok is so low, he really doesn't even deserve the Mika special. He needs something extra special. I've never seen a guy constantly wrack up war crimes like he has in such a short amount of time, and yet be a total moron. He uses banned weapons, ignores a plea for cease-fire, fires on unarmed non-coms, sends armed MSs against them despite the fact that they have nothing to defend themselves, ignores signals to surrender, destroys civilian ships AND then has his men even fire on the escape pods! Is there no bottom to your deprivation.
In a way, this even makes him worse than pirate groups like the Brewers and Dawn Horizon, at least they would heed a surrender. They might take the people as slaves, but at least they would be alive.

Naze and Amida went out like champs, they made their last stand and protected their family with all they had as the big mamma and papa of the group. Blazing in their glory, they will be supremely missed. I know that Naze told Orga to stay out of it, but I think he was seriously really happy that Orga tried to help anyway.

But this brings us to Barriston. Again, I know why he made the decision he did, but I also really think he could have done more. All of the men he has at his desposal and he couldn't get a small squad to go out there incognito and help Naze out. The guy was in no way guilty of anything, and yet, it feels a little bit that he was thrown under the bus.
Orga is going to take this really hard, and while Mika didn't really show much emotion, I think he was affected. But he was really more affected by what this was going to do to Orga.

Also, in the PV Orga is sitting alone in a room again with a bit of a green tint. Is Mika going to have to have another "talk" with him about what they have to do now? :heh:

And it looks like the AkiLafter ship is in full sail with poor Akihiro being a little befuddled when it comes to girls. I don't blame him since he's had literally no experience even communicating much with them, but hopefully this time after the funeral they can spend a little time together.



Im inclined to believe Iok lived, if they truly wanted to kill him off they would have explicity shown his death. Or at least thats what I think

One of the first rules I learned with a Gundam series is that, if you don't see the body, assume they're alive unless explicitly shown otherwise.

Looking at it, it seems as if the Hammerhead did indeed knock the command bridge off (seeing that it wasn't in combat position, so it was an easy target. Real smart there, Idiok :rolleyes:) But I won't be satisfied until it is actually confirmed at least two times over.

[devilo96]

https://www.change.org/p/everyone-destroy-iok-kujan
^
hahah someone really make this....

[Irenesharda]

I am confused about one thing, Julietta feeling relief was she actually worried Iok was going to die or something? Iok is not dead. Naze kinda missed anyway, no body no death people.



Julietta is trying to reach Mika levels of fighting ability after having seen him against Hashmal. Mika fights with no regard at all for his own life. He will go head on and fight like a ravenous beast when in ultimate mode.
Here, Julietta barely escaped with her life, and she was relieved, which means that deep down, there was still a fear that she was going to die. That's what she was upset about. She's knows that she is not yet at the strength (Mika level) that she want's to be.

[Skaddix]

Special emphasis on see the body. Since we just assumed McGillis didn't choke the job of killing Galieo.

What is funny is Iok and Julietta having the same motivation get praise from Rustal its hilarious.

They probably shouldn't send Mika in for a talk with Orga. He probably advise a Red Funeral. This probably needs a more subtle approach even if I would love to see Tekkadan roll in and just start firing. Need to send in Kudelia or the Old Man. He gives good advice.

[asaqe]

After getting a chance to calm down, all I can say is that that was one emotionally charged episode.
I cried at the end, as the music, the visuals, the emotion was just so heavy.

Iok is so low, he really doesn't even deserve the Mika special. He needs something extra special. I've never seen a guy constantly wrack up war crimes like he has in such a short amount of time, and yet be a total moron. He uses banned weapons, ignores a plea for cease-fire, fires on unarmed non-coms, sends armed MSs against them despite the fact that they have nothing to defend themselves, ignores signals to surrender, destroys civilian ships AND then has his men even fire on the escape pods! Is there no bottom to your deprivation.
In a way, this even makes him worse than pirate groups like the Brewers and Dawn Horizon, at least they would heed a surrender. They might take the people as slaves, but at least they would be alive.

Naze and Amida went out like champs, they made their last stand and protected their family with all they had as the big mamma and papa of the group. Blazing in their glory, they will be supremely missed. I know that Naze told Orga to stay out of it, but I think he was seriously really happy that Orga tried to help anyway.

But this brings us to Barriston. Again, I know why he made the decision he did, but I also really think he could have done more. All of the men he has at his desposal and he couldn't get a small squad to go out there incognito and help Naze out. The guy was in no way guilty of anything, and yet, it feels a little bit that he was thrown under the bus.
Orga is going to take this really hard, and while Mika didn't really show much emotion, I think he was affected. But he was really more affected by what this was going to do to Orga.

Also, in the PV Orga is sitting alone in a room again with a bit of a green tint. Is Mika going to have to have another "talk" with him about what they have to do now? :heh:

And it looks like the AkiLafter ship is in full sail with poor Akihiro being a little befuddled when it comes to girls. I don't blame him since he's had literally no experience even communicating much with them, but hopefully this time after the funeral they can spend a little time together.



One of the first rules I learned with a Gundam series is that, if you don't see the body, assume they're alive unless explicitly shown otherwise.

Looking at it, it seems as if the Hammerhead did indeed knock the command bridge off (seeing that it wasn't in combat position, so it was an easy target. Real smart there, Idiok :rolleyes:) But I won't be satisfied until it is actually confirmed at least two times over.

McMurdo remembered Naze's promise that if anything happens even if he is framed he would accept death as his punishment and Naze would have grilled Orga for starting a civil war after rescuing him since that was what Jasley gonna do and it will be them against the world even if McMurdo's orders was "get Jasley and have him cut his belly before me". That civil war would result in a rift in Teiwaz for years to come and orga is fighting one war already. Naze said that was the last mistake he can forgive smiling. Next time its him decking Orga to the ground for it and that means forcing McMurdo to pick sides

[Irenesharda]

McMurdo remembered Naze's promise that if anything happens even if he is framed he would accept death as his punishment and Naze would have grilled Orga for starting a civil war after rescuing him since that was what Jasley gonna do and it will be them against the world even if McMurdo's orders was "get Jasley and have him cut his belly before me". That civil war would result in a rift in Teiwaz for years to come and orga is fighting one war already. Naze said that was the last mistake he can forgive smiling. Next time its him decking Orga to the ground for it and that means forcing McMurdo to pick sides

Actually, that whole issue with Naze committing seppeku was a red herring. It had nothing at all to do with this situation. The idea was that if Tekkadan's current deal ended up causing them trouble then Tekkadan would leave the group and Naze would commit ceremonial suicide.

This situation is entirely different. The Turbines were specifically targeted by Gjallerhorn and set up. Tekkadan didn't do anything wrong and Naze had nothing to answer for and neither was this Naze getting Orga and Tekkadan out of trouble. Naze was trying to protect Tekkadan and their dreams of going to the top by telling him not to get involved. McMurdo was distancing himself from Naze so they didn't get entangled in the mess as well. But to me that would be more of an inconvienence than anything else. Teiwaz pretty much controls everything around the Jupiter sphere because Gjallerhorn just doesn't bother doing anything that far out. Also, they are well known for being a shady, mafia outfit.
I don't think it would have been too much trouble to send some no name mercenaries at least to help the girls escape, if not to also help Naze get out of there. It would have been within McMurdo's power and it wouldn't have implicated Teiwaz. And even if it did, I'm pretty sure it would be hard to really pin down Teiwaz with actual charges since Gjallerhorn isn't that powerful in their area.

[Tenzen12]

As cynical as I may sound that went pretty Well. Azee and Eco getting surviving is great. But yeah I shed few years for two of greatest characters of Gundam franchise.

As usually I think McMurdo was good boss until end. I would assume he will allow most named characters join Tekkadan. They will need each other now anyway.

Also until now I didn't care about Idiok, but yeah he really crossed more than one line here. I signed that petition.


And damnnn Amida kept up with the Julia in a Standard Hyakuren for the most part, I cant wait to see what Azee and Lafter will do against it in their Hekija's

Actually Amida's Hyakurens is one of original 10. It's far better than standard ones. But yeh she was beast T_T.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Iok shows not only he is a Stupid Idiot but an honorless coward not accepting surrender and attacking civilians while using banned weapons. This goes to show how corrupt Gjallarhorn has become going against its roots of protecting humanity.

This however gives McGillis his casus belli for his revolution. Iok isn't Rustal and has left a trail that he used illegal weapons. The Earth Joint Orbital Fleet will have its match with Airanhod fleet eventually. Tekkadan among its allies. For the past few years the Solar System has been publicly aware of Gjallarhorn's abuses. If McGillis plays this right he'll have the power blocs, Mars and the rest of the public at his side.

With Naze, Amida and some Turbines gone for Orga there will be hell to pay. Jasley miscalculated in allying with Iok as it escalated.

[Stark700]

Damn...that was rough to watch. Honestly, I'm not surprised. There was a good amount of death flags from the previous episode (I mean, the background storytelling focused on Naze). The battle and action was impressive to watch.

I'm going to miss Naze and Amida for sure. Both of them has grown onto me as memorable characters from the previous and this season. Never forget.

[ReddyRedWolf]

I loved how indignant Akihiro was with Ryusei calling his MS Muscle Unit. Ryusei and Ride being Chuuni about their suits when Akihiro straight face called out Gundam Gusion Rebake Full City launching.

[tdx]

You know what's really scary about Iok? It's how natural it is to him to be above the law, how entitled he thinks he is (no, no 'thinks', he just breathes that entitlement) to easily violate said law multiple times in a most atrocious fashion while supposedly punishing others for breaking the law in the same breath. That kind of mentality is the most vile and terrifying result of GH's corruption going on for generations.

Jasley looks pretty shocked here, so maybe, just maybe, Iok's death is reported to him?
https://s23.postimg.org/4tbw0a923/Ohys_Raws_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_Tekketsu_no_Or.jpg

Also, in the PV Orga is sitting alone in a room again with a bit of a green tint. Is Mika going to have to have another "talk" with him about what they have to do now? :heh:
https://s23.postimg.org/xk8pqcevv/Ohys_Raws_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_Tekketsu_no_Or.jpg
Orga is sitting in a cabin on one of Tekkadan's ships, presumably on his way to Saisei for the funeral service, and the one he is talking to is someone from GH (the GH emblem is on the screen), so most likely McGillis - not the best man to talk to when in such a vulnerable emotional state. I fear Orga being manipulated...

They probably shouldn't send Mika in for a talk with Orga. He probably advise a Red Funeral. This probably needs a more subtle approach even if I would love to see Tekkadan roll in and just start firing. Need to send in Kudelia or the Old Man. He gives good advice.As we've already been shown in s1 with Biscuit's death, Orga is in a very vulnerable position psychilogically when it comes to this kind of emotional blows because he has no one to turn to when he needs a shoulder to cry on, so to speak (we've seen how Mika, who's technically in the best position for it, simply won't allow it) As leader, Orga can't show his men the extent of his grief, especially when he's pushed very close to the breaking point like this and can't have his people pick up on it (for obvious reasons like a huge morale drop). This puts him in a danger of going insane. So yeah, send in the old man Yukinojou or Kudelia. Or both.

The thing is, I think that she does know that what a piece of crap he is, but she's so consumed with her own obsession that she no longer cares about whatever he's doing as long as it serves her quest to become stronger.
A quest that she's failing seeing as Amida was able to hold up pretty well against her in a pretty old suit at that. As much as I loved Amida, she would have never lasted against Mika going all out. If Julietta wants to get to Mika level, she's got a long way to go.Ein-ification for Julietta intensifies. I don't know if they'll actually go that far, but if you think about, the last logical step, if ViGali doesn't stop her in time, for her will be to become like Ein, literally: she realized how powerless she is and in her mad quest for power, the only way she can reach the same level as Mika is becoming one with her machine - that is, installation of the AV system and immuring herself into a lifesupport cube, literally becoming her mech Julia. Unlike Ein, willingly.

During his entire time as leader of Tekkadan and even as leader of the third group, Orga has scrapped, fought, and sacrificed for his men, sure some of his men die and he's had to carry that. But he's never purposefully abandoned men under him if he knew he hand the power to help them. Here, while I understand that McMurdo was looking out for the good of Teiwaz, I think there is definitely more he could have done. Especially considering that he could have nipped this in the bud earlier by dealing with Jasley, who has been rather obvious in his animosity. Sure it might be fine to begin with as boys will be boys, but as years past and that animosity grew, you should have known that it was going to come to a head.

I also think that McMurdo could have thought of something else, some way of sending Naze help. I mean, Shino can't be the only one who thinks of a plan to "test boosters", come on.It shows that Barriston is a ruthless businessman governed by cold rationale who came this far by cutting his losses no matter what, or who, constitutes those losses. I wanted to see the scary side of him, the reason why he is feared, well, in a way they did show it: he becomes indiscriminate when risks to his business are involved and emotions have no say in his decisions. Orga came this far by relying on his comrades and by them all sharing the spirit of being one united group, one family. This makes Barriston and Orga polar opposites, actually, and it wouldn't be strange for such opposites to clash eventually. I also find it quite ironic that although it's Teiwaz that uses family attributes a lot in appearance, it's actually Tekkadan who are family in spirit.


I know it's a very wrong moment, but I look forward to seeing a temporary wardrobe change for a lot of characters (sadly not for Eugene or Akihiro, it seems, but at least for Orga, Lafter and Azee)

[Wandering Soul]

RIP Naze and Amida. At least they went out together and they could die knowing that the rest of their family was safe. It's just to bad that Amida's shot didn't get through.

Sign me up for the "hope Iok gets killed brutally" petition.

Those Dainsleif weapons seem really OP.

[FBF]

I really hate Iok!

At first, I found him to be a lovable idiot who just happened to be part of the corrupt bureaucracy by fate....but his actions here toward ships full of surrendering women and children is just.....asking for a cruel fate for him in the end.


Glad that Echo and Azee are still alive and avoided the death flag. Now I am pump to see the AkihiroxLafter ship. Akihiro consulting with Eugene and Shino about Lafter wanting to squeeze him is probably going end up with bad advice or embarrassing situation (those two had sex with prostitues for crying out loud). I want to see his reaction when Lafter does hug him.

[Galaxian]

I want Iok to be done in by Gusion Rebake's pincers... That's the most painful way I can think of.

[azenable]

This single episode put IBO on part with 08 MS Team and above all the recent crap

[Tenzen12]

8th would be great without that terrible romance, I would put IBO above it for that reason.

[Irenesharda]

Jasley looks pretty shocked here, so maybe, just maybe, Iok's death is reported to him?
https://s23.postimg.org/4tbw0a923/Ohys_Raws_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_Tekketsu_no_Or.jpg


I don't think Iok is dead (yet), but I think perhaps Jasley didn't get the outcome he wanted? I'm not sure what he wants, but perhaps McMurdo decided to give it to Tekkadan instead? We'll have to see.

On a side note, someone on reddit dubbed him with the name Cowprint McGreekname, which I find hilarious. Not as catchy as Idiok, but still funny. :p

https://s23.postimg.org/xk8pqcevv/Ohys_Raws_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_Tekketsu_no_Or.jpg
Orga is sitting in a cabin on one of Tekkadan's ships, presumably on his way to Saisei for the funeral service, and the one he is talking to is someone from GH (the GH emblem is on the screen), so most likely McGillis - not the best man to talk to when in such a vulnerable emotional state. I fear Orga being manipulated...

It was too hard for me to see who he was talking to, but if it is Macky, it's probably one of two things. Orga is telling Macky what happened, which could provide evidence against Iok and by connection Rustal, which might be the spark McGillis needs to spark this whole revolution. I mean, evidence that a Seven Star Lord personally used illegal weapons deemed thus by Gjallerhorn itself, as well as firing upon helpless women and children who were trying to escape in lifepods? It would politically be worse than everything that Gjallerhorn did at the end of last season and would be an extremely heavy blow to the group.
The other thing they could be talking about is Macky telling Orga the fight is about to begin and that he's assembling his allies.
It's possible that Macky could try to manipulate him, but really, their thoughts are pretty aligned right now. I don't think there is anything that McGillis could want Orga to do that Orga already doesn't want to do. He'd be totally down with taking out Rustal, Iok, and all the cronies.

A last possibility, could be that McGillis is informing him that Naze's setup was an inside job and could have even figured out it was Jasley. If this scene is before the funeral, then Orga holding Eugene back could be in response to jab by Jasley and that as Orga already knows, he already has a revenge plan in mind.

[Faux Mecha]

anyone noticed the YouTube thumbnail for this episode is literally a picture of Naze's head bleeding? GundamInfo was not being subtle at all.

[NBG]

I'm sad

I need a minute

[Twi]

My view of events here (https://kvasir369.wordpress.com/2017/01/22/mobile-suit-gundam-iron-blooded-orphans-season-2-episode-15-review/), but when things first started I considered him something like Carta, a self-righteous fool who was fighting on the wrong side. But for all the issues I had with her, Iok is worse by far.

This bastard goes so far as to not only use illegal weapons and fire at his own comrades, but has his own men commit what constitutes war crimes just for the sake of his glory. Carta at least took responsibility for the men under her care and tried to die with her own ideals intact, whereas Iok has repeatedly been a dumbass that’s as bad as their corrupt organization.

I hope McGillis hangs him with this.

[akumaten]

Well, even in the dark cloud of Naze and Amida's death, there is a silver lining
If the Turbines girls find out two out of their three saviors are single good times await for them. Lafter has obvious dibs on Akihiro, a million girls would love to make a man out of Ride, and to be honest, Shino/Yamagi wouldn't last.

In all seriousness, the Turbines girls owe Tekkadan their lives. They will go "Fuck you, Teiwaz. We're with the Tekkas now". Tekkadan is going to have an army perfect for their kingdom

[Anh_Minh]

I really wonder what McMurdo's thinking of all this. Jasley's confident that as the "remaining son", he'll have all he wants. But if McMurdo so easily abandoned Naze, he won't blink at removing Jasley, if given cause. The question if whether that kind of infighting, where you bring in Gjallahorn to kill one of your "brothers" constitutes a good cause. And, I suppose, if McMurdo knows what role Jasley played in this.

[xeviouses]

Dammit, Iok. As if we didn't have enough reasons to hate him already and then there's Jasley.

Orga's mental and emotional state are gonna be worrisome, the last time he was like this was with Biscuit's death and he responded by charging against Gjallarhorn outright. Sure, Mike prodded him but in the end, it was Orgas decision.

Though judging from the preview if he ever goes after Jasley, it will be either tactical and methodical or the mafia esque 'don't mess with us' approach from earlier.

[Tenzen12]

McMurdo still takes quite risk to accommodate remnants of Turbines so I wouldn't write him off as completely cold blooded.

[tdx]

It was too hard for me to see who he was talking to, but if it is Macky, it's probably one of two things. Orga is telling Macky what happened, which could provide evidence against Iok and by connection Rustal, which might be the spark McGillis needs to spark this whole revolution. I mean, evidence that a Seven Star Lord personally used illegal weapons deemed thus by Gjallerhorn itself, as well as firing upon helpless women and children who were trying to escape in lifepods? It would politically be worse than everything that Gjallerhorn did at the end of last season and would be an extremely heavy blow to the group.
The other thing they could be talking about is Macky telling Orga the fight is about to begin and that he's assembling his allies.
It's possible that Macky could try to manipulate him, but really, their thoughts are pretty aligned right now. I don't think there is anything that McGillis could want Orga to do that Orga already doesn't want to do. He'd be totally down with taking out Rustal, Iok, and all the cronies.

A last possibility, could be that McGillis is informing him that Naze's setup was an inside job and could have even figured out it was Jasley. If this scene is before the funeral, then Orga holding Eugene back could be in response to jab by Jasley and that as Orga already knows, he already has a revenge plan in mind.
From the panoramic shot of the funeral hall, Jasley isn't seen at the funeral (he probably knows the Turbine girls just might rip him a new one if he waltzed in there).
https://s23.postimg.org/oeuj11ncb/Horrible_Subs_Mobile_Suit_Gundam_Iron_Blooded.jpg
https://s23.postimg.org/cr0h6hy7f/Ohys_Raws_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_Tekketsu_no_Or.jpg
Orga's gaze sure is heavy, the kind that makes you want to run for your life without looking back. I'm thinking what Eugene wants to do there, with Orga preventing him from it, probably has to do with Barriston rather than Jasley. Maybe Eugene is ready to go and ask Barriston directly questions like what did you allow it, why didn't you try to help... Orga stopping him might carry one of two meanings. First, Orga understands why Barriston did what he did (or rather didn't), so there's no need to accuse him of anything (unlikely, tbh, because Orga was pissed at Barriston's not doing anything at the beginning, so I doubt he finds Barriston's choice right, even if he can understand the reasons). I find the second interpretation more likely, that is, Orga now thinks that they (Tekkadan) can't trust anyone in Teiwaz anymore, including the Old Man, and are basically on their own. If you remember a talk on the bridge of Hammerhead, Naze pointed out that it might be not only Jasley, but also Barriston himself who's involved with framing them. So if Orga asked the main surviving Turbines (Eco, Lafter, Azee) who from Teiwaz he should suspect as the culprit, he should've gotten those 2 names - Jasley and Barriston himself.

McGillis doesn't seem to know the Teiwaz side very well, but I'm sure he'll tell Orga the name of the perpetrator on the GH side, that is, Iok Kujan who is under Rustal Elion. Thus, together, they can get the full picture and all the names of their enemies.

The kind of manipulation I fear from Macky is him instrumentally pushing Orga into Tekkadan taking the full brunt as a sacrificial pawn (as was noted by someone - I don't remember whom, sorry - in the previous thread, Macky doesn't exactly care how many of Tekkadan members die as long as Orga, its leader, and Mika, its ace and core fighter, live). Despite his emotional state and him obviously wanting revenge, I hope Orga still has enough presence of mind to stick to the principle of trying to keep death toll among his people to a minimum and can identify it if Macky tries to lure him into something that goes against it.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

This single episode put IBO on part with 08 MS Team and above all the recent crapI hope you're not pointing your finger at Thunderbolt, Origin, or GBF. Those were excellent at most and very enjoyable at the very least.

[dragon1412]

So Naze wasn't able to survive afterall.

Frankly, I starting to doubt McGillis being the final big bad with the way the story is going, in fact, I can actually see why McGillis have to resorted to such measures considering how Idiok show us how far could corruption get in the current Gjallarhorn. As much as I want Idiok to die, he seem like he will live just fine until way longer when he get his just judgment.

[haseo0408]

My view of events here (https://kvasir369.wordpress.com/2017/01/22/mobile-suit-gundam-iron-blooded-orphans-season-2-episode-15-review/), but when things first started I considered him something like Carta, a self-righteous fool who was fighting on the wrong side. But for all the issues I had with her, Iok is worse by far.

This bastard goes so far as to not only use illegal weapons and fire at his own comrades, but has his own men commit what constitutes war crimes just for the sake of his glory. Carta at least took responsibility for the men under her care and tried to die with her own ideals intact, whereas Iok has repeatedly been a dumbass that’s as bad as their corrupt organization.

I hope McGillis hangs him with this.

Carta was an idiot but she was an idiot with honor, the woman had an ideal and she went down with it until the very end and that´s something you have to respect even if she killed Bisquit in the first season.

This episode was an emonional bomb from start to finish, Naze was my favorite character of this story by far!. The man was never the womanizer he appear to be , he cared for his family and he went down like a real man protecting them, many tears I cried for the guy.

Let´s talk about Iok, this guy is the official hate sink of the story, he just commited 12 war crimes as far as I saw by attaking the Turbines like the coward he is. He only cares about his honor and Rustal, I hope he dies the most horrible death is Gundam franchise for this.

And the worst possible result is here for Rustal and the Arainhold Fleet: now it´s personal for Tekkadan. Before this they were going along with McGuillis out of ambition or a desire ti protect their future, Now their older brother is dead, the one guy who stood up for them when everybody else, except Kudelia, treated them like crap. I hope they take no prissoners, this is war!.

[DMurphy]

The way they set Iok's character up was clever, I think.

Because a few people here have said they thought he was similar to Carta, and that's absolutely how he was presented to us -- the show very deliberately and very pointedly drew parallels between the two to make us think that Iok was, you know, stupid but also basically honourable.

Thus setting us all up perfectly for the triple gut-punch of 'Iok will happily use illegal weapons,' 'Iok will attack fleeing or cowering civilians,' and 'Iok is a total coward.' At the moment, Iok isn't quite the most unremittingly awful person who's been in the show, but he's up there.

It was left ambiguous as to if he was dead, but I kinda hope he isn't, purely because I think this would be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back for Rustal. Because Rustal is ruthless, but we've also seen that he puts a certain amount of value on honour, and moreover, Iok screwed up. Alive, Naze could have provided information that would help them against Tekkadan (even though he obviously wouldn't). Dead, all that's left is evidence that Gjallarhorn broke its own laws, and a quite possibly furious Teiwaz.

[Ryuga]

Whatever can be said about Iok has already been said, so I'm not going to bother lol. What was gutwrenching was Naze and Amida's sacrifice didn't quite nail him, the ship bounced off it and hit the other one I think. The fight between Julietta and Amida was amazing, Amida really got in her head. Perhaps Julietta'll reconsider her quest for strength....or maybe she'll double down and go to dark places. I kinda want her to go all the way like Ein did, but it'd be redundant and would probably be better if she realised she's heading down a wrong path.

[Tenzen12]

Regarding Julietta, I noticed this episode was almost mirror image of Sort tragedy.She similarly to Gali-Gali don't really liked operation, but still went along with it for opportunity fight.

Well Gali-Gali had slightly more noble goal, but still...

[Irenesharda]

From the panoramic shot of the funeral hall, Jasley isn't seen at the funeral (he probably knows the Turbine girls just might rip him a new one if he waltzed in there).
https://s23.postimg.org/oeuj11ncb/Horrible_Subs_Mobile_Suit_Gundam_Iron_Blooded.jpg
https://s23.postimg.org/cr0h6hy7f/Ohys_Raws_Kidou_Senshi_Gundam_Tekketsu_no_Or.jpg
Orga's gaze sure is heavy, the kind that makes you want to run for your life without looking back. I'm thinking what Eugene wants to do there, with Orga preventing him from it, probably has to do with Barriston rather than Jasley. Maybe Eugene is ready to go and ask Barriston directly questions like what did you allow it, why didn't you try to help... Orga stopping him might carry one of two meanings. First, Orga understands why Barriston did what he did (or rather didn't), so there's no need to accuse him of anything (unlikely, tbh, because Orga was pissed at Barriston's not doing anything at the beginning, so I doubt he finds Barriston's choice right, even if he can understand the reasons). I find the second interpretation more likely, that is, Orga now thinks that they (Tekkadan) can't trust anyone in Teiwaz anymore, including the Old Man, and are basically on their own. If you remember a talk on the bridge of Hammerhead, Naze pointed out that it might be not only Jasley, but also Barriston himself who's involved with framing them. So if Orga asked the main surviving Turbines (Eco, Lafter, Azee) who from Teiwaz he should suspect as the culprit, he should've gotten those 2 names - Jasley and Barriston himself.

McGillis doesn't seem to know the Teiwaz side very well, but I'm sure he'll tell Orga the name of the perpetrator on the GH side, that is, Iok Kujan who is under Rustal Elion. Thus, together, they can get the full picture and all the names of their enemies.

The kind of manipulation I fear from Macky is him instrumentally pushing Orga into Tekkadan taking the full brunt as a sacrificial pawn (as was noted by someone - I don't remember whom, sorry - in the previous thread, Macky doesn't exactly care how many of Tekkadan members die as long as Orga, its leader, and Mika, its ace and core fighter, live). Despite his emotional state and him obviously wanting revenge, I hope Orga still has enough presence of mind to stick to the principle of trying to keep death toll among his people to a minimum and can identify it if Macky tries to lure him into something that goes against it.

I wouldn't put it past Jasley to make some kind of snide false-sympathetic line from the sidelines.

Also, the shot from the PV actually looks more like a wake. Nobody other than some of the Turbine girls and a few of Tekkadan are there. So the full funeral might be later.

I'm also sure that if Rustal can get full information on Iok's contacts then Macky using Isurugi's information network should be able to find out also. Iok isn't that good at covering his tracks. :rolleyes:

I can't even see Eugene about to strike out at McMurdo. He's been pretty level headed this season. That's why I think it's Jasley that has pissed him off. Nobody else would really have reason to.

[asaqe]

The way they set Iok's character up was clever, I think.

Because a few people here have said they thought he was similar to Carta, and that's absolutely how he was presented to us -- the show very deliberately and very pointedly drew parallels between the two to make us think that Iok was, you know, stupid but also basically honourable.

Thus setting us all up perfectly for the triple gut-punch of 'Iok will happily use illegal weapons,' 'Iok will attack fleeing or cowering civilians,' and 'Iok is a total coward.' At the moment, Iok isn't quite the most unremittingly awful person who's been in the show, but he's up there.

It was left ambiguous as to if he was dead, but I kinda hope he isn't, purely because I think this would be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back for Rustal. Because Rustal is ruthless, but we've also seen that he puts a certain amount of value on honour, and moreover, Iok screwed up. Alive, Naze could have provided information that would help them against Tekkadan (even though he obviously wouldn't). Dead, all that's left is evidence that Gjallarhorn broke its own laws, and a quite possibly furious Teiwaz.

Once Jasley lays claim to Teiwaz its a small price to pay because Jasley will pull any string to keep his connections with Rustal's Gjallarhorn. He may not be on good terms with McGillis and thinks whomever runs Montag should join Naze on the pile of corpses but Rustal will gladly keep him in power as mutual venefit as it keeps an eye on Mars and leaves Orga out of the loop.

The whole entrusting Turbines to the Don is a huge factor as if Jasley gets control it means Lafter and co are basically slaves to Jasley's Teiwaz and he has none of Naze's kindness. Amida may be dead but he can settle for Lafter and the girls

Also agood reason why Iok is such a good villain in ibo


You know, the show needed a character like Iok.

We know that the people fighting Tekkadan are supposed to be scum so we can root against them. But they're basically cartoonishly incompetent, making them caricatures, or they're nonthreatening, harmless buffoons like Carta. Or they're so mustache-twirlingly evil they can't be taken seriously. And all the while, they're almost never dangerous, with the exception of Carta who manages to be sympathetic.

Rustal, with his political deftness embarrassing McGillis and destroying Tekkadan's Earth branch, and Julietta and Vidar, two pilots who can compete with the best of Tekkadan's aces, seemed to be what the plot needed to inject some real stakes into the show. But their potential is pretty wasted with Vidar just making GAINZ and Julietta losing every fight.

But Iok... Iok is a bumbling clown who manages to be the most destructive force and cruel, evil scumbag in the show. He represents everything wrong with Gjallarhorn in a single character: the whoring of an unearned title, the incompetence, the lack of purpose, the abuse of authority, the corruption, the cavalier treatment of all those deemed unworthy... it's magnificent.

Bless you, Poo-In-Loo of Plot.

[DmonHiro]

Iok screwed up and there's a high chance that Rustal is going to be pissed. Why? Iok used illegal weapons that leave a trace. Those steel rods they use as ammo do not break down, and can be used as evidence. Who else has dainslefs? Rustal values rules and order above all else. Using illegal weapons is against the rules.

[kyuzoaoi]

I've read that someone posted a change.org petition to kill of off Iok after that episode. So far, it has 800 signatures.

Seriously, if Iok's behavior in the defense of Chryse is not the moral event horizon for him, then this shooting of civilian space transports was.

[NBG]

Shoutout to Amida
Definition of a ride or die

:T_T::T_T::T_T::T_T::T_T::(

[DMurphy]

I've read that someone posted a change.org petition to kill of off Iok after that episode. So far, it has 800 signatures.

Seriously, if Iok's behavior in the defense of Chryse is not the moral event horizon for him, then this shooting of civilian space transports was.

I think the difference was that Iok's behaviour during the Chryse debacle could have been excused as stupidity, you know? Like, he didn't understand what he was doing or what was going on.

There's no such ambiguity here, though. He knew exactly what he was doing.

[gundamdrawer]

Came late to the party because I'm thinking of hundreds of ways on how I want to Iok die. A point blank railgun shot from one of Flauros' cannon perhaps?

[haseo0408]

Iok screwed up and there's a high chance that Rustal is going to be pissed. Why? Iok used illegal weapons that leave a trace. Those steel rods they use as ammo do not break down, and can be used as evidence. Who else has dainslefs? Rustal values rules and order above all else. Using illegal weapons is against the rules.

Most of the crew of the Hammer Head is still alive, that gives Teiwaz, Tekkadan and most important MacGuillis many witnesses to use against Rustal and Arianhold Fleet, so at the rate this is going war among Gallajhorn is certain.

[Keila]

Came late to the party because I'm thinking of hundreds of ways on how I want to Iok die. A point blank railgun shot from one of Flauros' cannon perhaps?

Executed by Rustal, after he explains in intricate detail how Iok managed to shame him.

[Jaden]

Iok screwed up and there's a high chance that Rustal is going to be pissed. Why? Iok used illegal weapons that leave a trace. Those steel rods they use as ammo do not break down, and can be used as evidence. Who else has dainslefs? Rustal values rules and order above all else. Using illegal weapons is against the rules.

McGillis said that railguns with conventional warheads are a "gray area", so it can either be used as an excuse to lynch someone, or overlooked. It is a pretty dangerous weapon though. Could easily be used for precise orbital bombardment.

[asaqe]

Most of the crew of the Hammer Head is still alive, that gives Teiwaz, Tekkadan and most important MacGuillis many witnesses to use against Rustal and Arianhold Fleet, so at the rate this is going war among Gallajhorn is certain.

Jasley's sided with Arianhold, well loyal as it gets for someone with ties with the Kujan, he is going to sweet talk Rustal about how Tekkadan is a disruption of the natural order and that Naze's death was necessary for the real Teiwaz to be controlling the outer ring of planets. Make no mistake, there will be a shift in power for Teiwaz and it isn't something Orga will like.

This is only going to get much worse before it gets better as we have seen in the last two arcs.

[DMurphy]

McGillis said that railguns with conventional warheads are a "gray area", so it can either be used as an excuse to lynch someone, or overlooked. It is a pretty dangerous weapon though. Could easily be used for precise orbital bombardment.

One key thing we saw is that Iok wasn't using conventional warheads, though -- or, at least, he didn't seem to be, because he was using metal rods that didn't explode, not missiles.

I'd call it stupidity, but in this instance, I just think Iok thinks he's above the law. He wanted his little poetic justice moment with the Dainsleif weapons, and he didn't see why the rules should stop him.

[Irenesharda]

McGillis said that railguns with conventional warheads are a "gray area", so it can either be used as an excuse to lynch someone, or overlooked. It is a pretty dangerous weapon though. Could easily be used for precise orbital bombardment.

The railguns themselves aren't necessarily the problem. The reason they were banned was because the ammo used was basically made of the same stuff as a Gundam frame and could literally oneshot cockpits and entire ships which is what we saw happen here. They were deemed WMDs and banned by war treaty.
Flauros scrapped by because they use the railguns but not the ammo that got them banned in the first place, so they are just barely legal.

Iok on the other hand used the entire set, both the railguns and the ammo which is entirely illegal.

[blakstealth]

And we can't forget about the mastermind Jasley that's behind all this. His shadiness needs to be brought to light for Teiwaz to see.

[DragoonKain3]

Eh, Teiwaz itself is like half a shady organization, so I wouldn't be surprised if infighting like this is either tolerated, or at least turned a blind eye on as long as it doesn't truly affect the head honcho. Teiwaz is pretty much space Yakuza, and goodness knows there's plenty of infighting within the Yakuza. So pretty sure red-head guy is going to get away with framing Naze unless Tekkadan themselves bring justice to the situation, especially since the current 'police' treats him as a valuable informant.

I'm loving Iok though. Someone who truly believes he is right, and yet isn't above using wrongs to make a right. Either Okada kills him in the end to give us catharsis for being quite possibly the most hated villain in all of Gundam, or she's keeping him alive long enough to see how his actions is not only ruining his life, but of those he is trying to protect. Heck, it won't even be above Okada to give him some tear-jerking redemption story in the end, so I'm really interested how she plans to resolve his character.

[Rising Dragon]

For those of you wondering about Iok's survival, the bridge of his ship was visibly intact after the Hammerhead glanced off of it. I'm certain he's alive.

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

I still can’t decide which one that I hate the most: Katejina Loos, Yuna Roma Seiran or Idiok. Well, I guess I can put Katejina aside because she’s hot and not as idiotic as the other two. So, it’s down to Yuna & Idiok now. Hmm……..it’s hard. Guess I’ll see how Idiok characters’ ends before deciding.

Btw, if you feel strongly about IBO and other Gundams in general, you can vote for them in Animesuki Award for best on-going series, best credit song, best sci-fi, & best OVA. Or you can vote for other anime of your choice in the available nominations. We would like as many members participate in this award as possible so that the results reflect most of Asuki members instead of just a select few. Please vote here (https://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=146586) and thanks for your time ;).

[asaqe]

http://i.imgur.com/XD10oxp.jpg

So someone noticed this was the same introspective doubt that he also had when Shino was mourning the loss of his friends on the Brewers Raid. Mika was right, Orga let his brother die just because he thinks taking risks will ruin everything they fought for. But better to have Naze angry at Orga and on the run vs the deaths and the ineveitable power grab Jasley has planned and the fallout of taking revenge.

[Rising Dragon]

Wrong link for that tag, asaqe.

[Endscape]

This episode got me right in the feels. Naze and Amida were amazing people, and they went out like true champs. They'll be rembered.

Iok is undoubtedly one of the worst scumbags I've seen in any media at all for quite some time. I hope his fall and/or death is painful and ironic. Julieta and Jaxley as well.

Eh, Teiwaz itself is like half a shady organization, so I wouldn't be surprised if infighting like this is either tolerated, or at least turned a blind eye on as long as it doesn't truly affect the head honcho. Teiwaz is pretty much space Yakuza, and goodness knows there's plenty of infighting within the Yakuza.

Letting sub-bosses go around fighting not only causes problem for the organization, but might end up giving them ideas about the boss, so I can't imagine McMurdo tolerating it.

Selling folks out to the cops is even worse than that. People like that can only be a danger to the organization in the end, so I think McMurdo will purge him once they've got proof.

I'm loving Iok though. Someone who truly believes he is right, and yet isn't above using wrongs to make a right.

Iok is actually worse than this.

Carta believed she was right, she was just totally braindead. Iok doesn't give a crap about right or wrong, just his "honour", which basically translates to doing what's best for the Kujan family and Iok.

Either Okada kills him in the end to give us catharsis for being quite possibly the most hated villain in all of Gundam, or she's keeping him alive long enough to see how his actions is not only ruining his life, but of those he is trying to protect. Heck, it won't even be above Okada to give him some tear-jerking redemption story in the end, so I'm really interested how she plans to resolve his character.

I'm hoping he dies shamefully, but it might be more fun to see him groveling after being stripped of everything. ;)

[asaqe]

Wrong link for that tag, asaqe.

Yeah, it took me a while to fix it. But that picture made me think about Orga's situation right now. Back then he would just accept the consequences of saving those close to him, here he just lets himself be put into this situation and there is no telling if more people will die because of him.

[tdx]

I wouldn't put it past Jasley to make some kind of snide false-sympathetic line from the sidelines.

Also, the shot from the PV actually looks more like a wake. Nobody other than some of the Turbine girls and a few of Tekkadan are there. So the full funeral might be later.

I'm also sure that if Rustal can get full information on Iok's contacts then Macky using Isurugi's information network should be able to find out also. Iok isn't that good at covering his tracks. :rolleyes:

I can't even see Eugene about to strike out at McMurdo. He's been pretty level headed this season. That's why I think it's Jasley that has pissed him off. Nobody else would really have reason to.There's probably no body left to hold the normal funeral...

Nah, I still doubt Jasley will show up there. Tekkadan are standing by one of the doors and from the background and the order (Eugene still on Orga's left), it's clearly the same time and place when Eugene acts out. And the direction of his look is strange, to the side and down, like he's not looking at someone in particular.

Since according to interviews with the VAs, Eugene's admiration for Orga only grows and he tries to unconsciously copy him as much as he can, and Nagai even asked Umehara (Eugene's VA) to say his more inspirational lines (like what Eugene said to the new recruits in episode 1) like Orga, I wouldn't put it past him to be hot-headed there, like Orga can be at times, except Orga is changing himself, too, getting wiser and better at controlling his impulses. If not Barriston, then I guess Eugene might want to go find Jasley, but that's an obviously futile, even harmful, act at this point because Tekkadan are pretty powerless atm, that's why Orga has to stop him. My speculation, anyway.

And we can't forget about the mastermind Jasley that's behind all this. His shadiness needs to be brought to light for Teiwaz to see.Teiwaz is the space mafia. They're shady by definition. It's just that there might be lines not to be crossed even for them, and Jasley has probably crossed such a line. We'll know from what Barriston does next, I suppose.

So someone noticed this was the same introspective doubt that he also had when Shino was mourning the loss of his friends on the Brewers Raid. Mika was right, Orga let his brother die just because he thinks taking risks will ruin everything they fought for. But better to have Naze angry at Orga and on the run vs the deaths and the ineveitable power grab Jasley has planned and the fallout of taking revenge.That's one way to interpret those scenes alright, but I personally disagree with that interpretation. For all we know, Mika might be feeling something like regret at not being there for Orga as Orga's sword when he needed him badly (to send him, along with Akihiro and Shino and make a difference.)

[Faux Mecha]

seriously, Iok wanted to leave the bridge of his ship not in combat mode thus of it being exposed to danger, that after getting shot by Amida then getting rammed by Naze, its like he wanted a death wish to happen so that the audience feels pleased, a brilliant tease if you will, not sure he was injured from that,

also the Julia getting damaged on its first debut by friendly fire that may hurt Julieta, blame Iok on that too.

[Tenzen12]

I think Jasley will show up on funeral, if just for sake of smug. He might also come as good brother and accepting poor girls under his motherly wings....

[Skye629]

For those of you wondering about Iok's survival, the bridge of his ship was visibly intact after the Hammerhead glanced off of it. I'm certain he's alive.

Well realistically speaking, given how cracked the window was on the bridge after Amida shot it, the Hammerheads impact should have easily shattered the glass

Though they probably bailed from the bridge offscreen right before impact



What would be most funny though is that Iok IS dead and the writers were trolling us by denying us any full sense of closure/revenge

[Key Board]

The thing is, Iok is a necessary villain
Other characters are in a more gray area, but it's really easy to hate Iok
The show needs someone to hate

[Irenesharda]

So someone noticed this was the same introspective doubt that he also had when Shino was mourning the loss of his friends on the Brewers Raid. Mika was right, Orga let his brother die just because he thinks taking risks will ruin everything they fought for. But better to have Naze angry at Orga and on the run vs the deaths and the ineveitable power grab Jasley has planned and the fallout of taking revenge.

I kind of have to totally disagree with this interpetation. If you look back to when they lost others like Biscuit, this was sort of his response then too. I think he hurts more for Orga than he hurts for himself. I honestly can't remember a time I have seen Mika cry once.
And I think they have established enough times that Mika's faith and loyalty is unshakable. Its really as necessary as breathing at this point considering their co-dependence.

Naze wasn't angry at Orga, and also if you really link back all of the events that led to this, none of it was Orga's fault, not even his ambition.

This all first started with Dawn Horizon and McGillis paying Tekkadan to do a job in taking out the pirates. It's a job, so they do it. The full alliance doesn't come till later.
After they finish their job, McMurdo gifts them the half-metal mine as a gift for a reward for what they did. In the mind, they accidentally unearth Hashmal. Tekkadan can't figure out what it is so they contact the foremost authority on ancient tech. McGillis realizes what it is and tells them to stop immediately don't touch it. JASLEY, annoyed at Tekkadan getting all the glory, contacts IOK, who decides that Macky must be up to no good and comes to crash the party. And thus a carefully put together plan to NOT wake up the MA is ruined and the resulting battle costs the lives of hundreds of civilians, Tekkadan members, Iok's men, and Mika's mobility. IOK, who is pretty much completely responsible for ALL of that, decides instead to blame everything on someone else. First he tries to go after McGillis, but the council shuts him down and Rustal warns him that he is one step away away from breaking an alliance with him. Iok shocked and angry and still looking for someone to blame (anyone but HIMSELF) decides that somehow Tekkadan is to blame, even though they were the ones that sacrificed a lot in order to beat Hashmal and had to clean up his mess. So, now Iok is obsessed with Tekkadan since he can't get McGilis. JASLEY, who is still annoyed how Naze and Tekkaden as still the favored ones, uses this to his advantage and manipulates Iok into going after the Turbines as a way to get Naze out of the way. And the rest is history.

So, long story short, in an interesting turn of events, Orga's decision to make Tekkadan Kings of Mars had really nothing to do with this situation. Other than perhaps making Jasley just a little more jealous, but to be honest, he was that way to begin with. Every fault lies with Idiok and Jasley as they are not only the ones responsible for Naze's murder (and yes, it was murder) but also for the events and motivations that led up to it in the first place.

[Ernietheracefan]

I'd like to see Rustal getting pissed with Idiok's action. It wouldn't end well for him..

[John117xCortana]

Theres something I don't quite get. What was that look McMurdo gave to Mika when Mika said he can see it clearly in McMurdo's eyes that his mind is made up?

[DmonHiro]

I hope to see a conversation between Rustal and Iok go something like this:
Let me get this straight. You used illegal weapons, refused to accept surrender, attacked unarmed transports, the Turbines were defending... and you STILL lost a ship?!

[kgrodriguez]

I hope to see a conversation between Rustal and Iok go something like this:
Let me get this straight. You used illegal weapons, refused to accept surrender, attacked unarmed transports, the Turbines were defending... and you STILL lost a ship?!

"AND you used your full force against such a small group, which Julieta also noted. And oh yeah, that small group did not even plan to fight back, so that small group eventually became one ship and one MS. :heh:

AND what's that? You almost died because you refused to put the bridge in combat mode EVEN AFTER your subordinate asked you about it?"

Something tells me that this is the real reason why Julieta went out in her new mobile suit. :heh:

[DmonHiro]

Something tells me that this is the real reason why Julieta went out in her new mobile suit. :heh:


Guy: Sir, shouldn't we put our armor up?
Idiok: Nope, we don't need it.
Julietta: Well, time to go test my MS far away from you guys. Good luck with the incompetent commander.

[Magewolf]

Theres something I don't quite get. What was that look McMurdo gave to Mika when Mika said he can see it clearly in McMurdo's eyes that his mind is made up?

I think he realized that Mika had just put him on the kill list.

[DmonHiro]

I think he realized that Mika had just put him on the kill list.

Not even close. Mika is really good at figuring out what people really mean. He's kind of a living lie detector. He could tell that McMurdo really wanted to help Naze, but couldn't.

[DMurphy]

I also think that Rustal is going to be furious that Iok nearly hurt Julieta. Because we've already seen Rustal comfort Julieta, advise her that he needs her for more than just her strength, and had Vidar say that he didn't think Rustal would let Julieta test pilot that suit (even though we know that she's his best pilot, so the implication is 'because it's too risky'). Rustal clearly cares for Julieta a lot, maybe even as if she were his daughter.

[Skye629]

I also think that Rustal is going to be furious that Iok nearly hurt Julieta. Because we've already seen Rustal comfort Julieta, advise her that he needs her for more than just her strength, and had Vidar say that he didn't think Rustal would let Julieta test pilot that suit (even though we know that she's his best pilot, so the implication is 'because it's too risky'). Rustal clearly cares for Julieta a lot, maybe even as if she were his daughter.

Assuming Julietta blabs about it depending on how personally she took it

Iok has been a PITA for her so far, but somehow, miraculously, she still haven't snapped yet whereas the fanbase, and even Rustal to a degree, already has

[Router25]

I'm sure there won't be any investigations into this. One reason is that this fleet only consists the whole Kujan faction so in what I've seen in this episode, they will ,and they shall wash it off and say thay "the Turbines fought us".
This kinda feels to me like how things are happening here IRL Philippines.

[larethian]

Only found time to catch up on the series these few days.

With all the death flags: not putting bridge down, and Julieta moving out, I thought Iok would most certainly die.........

But damn, this episode delivered in emotional impact and makes Iron Blood stand above a number of other Gundam shows, even when I already expected something like that to happen with that sudden flashback narration about Naze and Turbines.

[Irenesharda]

Not even close. Mika is really good at figuring out what people really mean. He's kind of a living lie detector. He could tell that McMurdo really wanted to help Naze, but couldn't.

I think that McMurdo takes an interest in Mika simply because he's not like anyone else under his command. Mika is never intimidated by him, he doesn't seek to please him, he doesn't fear him. Mika is honestly the only person that is completely secure in who he is. He is more like a man in his 50s than one who is only 15/16. He knows who and what he is, and he's completely comfortable with it.

McMurdo is nice and he'll talk with him, but he will always tell him the truth and he'll be blunt and upfront about it. Because Mika is not threatened by him. If they get along okay, fine. If McMurdo tries to attack or hurt him or his, he will react the same way he does with anyone else. He doesn't care who you are.

I'm sure there won't be any investigations into this. One reason is that this fleet only consists the whole Kujan faction so in what I've seen in this episode, they will ,and they shall wash it off and say thay "the Turbines fought us".
This kinda feels to me like how things are happening here IRL Philippines.

Well, Iok will have to answer for why he now has an entire ship destroyed and crew of however many killed. So, there will be an investigation, but we don't now yet what will be the response.

[tdx]

I'm sure there won't be any investigations into this. One reason is that this fleet only consists the whole Kujan faction so in what I've seen in this episode, they will ,and they shall wash it off and say thay "the Turbines fought us". Yeah, I'm pessimistic about Iok getting punished by GH for what he did. I mean, he might get scolded, might lose his standing in the 7 star families council (if he had any, that is), his alliance with Rustal might get dissolved (doubtful though, since Rustal was aware to a degree of what Iok was doing), but I doubt there will be any legal consequences for what he did. I mean, it's a blow to GH's already tattered reputation, so it's not profitable for them any to air their dirty linen in public again, so... Izanario was forced to go into exile because his schemes, involving something as big and grave as trying to usurp the supreme authority of one of the economic blocs through Fleur by killing her opposition, got exposed publicly and, due to their political nature, rallied all blocs against them (no big wig wants something like that happen in their own bloc). But in this case, even if McGillis makes it public, I'm not sure if the effect will be all that strong, at least probably not on that level, because, you know, the Turbines is part of the mafia, has nothing to do with big politics or big wigs in economic blocs, and that fact is bound to divide the public in their opinion and view of what happened. So I guess we'll have to wait for Iok getting punished for all what he did by extralegal means, that is, brutally killed by our protagonists.

[kgrodriguez]

I'm sure there won't be any investigations into this. One reason is that this fleet only consists the whole Kujan faction so in what I've seen in this episode, they will ,and they shall wash it off and say thay "the Turbines fought us".
This kinda feels to me like how things are happening here IRL Philippines.

Hey there kababayan!

I doubt there would be any investigation, but I doubt if Rustal is kept unaware (if he is not already aware) of what Iok did. There won't be any investigation, no formal complaints or trials, no punishments, but I bet Rustal will know.

Then Iok will come to him, expecting that he will be praised by Rustal, only for the opposite to happen. This will push Iok to even more idiotic decisions, maybe even take on Tekkadan straight on, and that decision will be the one that shall ultimately spell the end for Iok. Either that, or he kinda succeeds to a certain extent, but it is Rustal himself that ends Iok.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Thing is Iok left a paper trail. McGillis will use this incident to tear Gjallarhorn apart in a revolution led by him.

[Anh_Minh]

Guy: Sir, shouldn't we put our armor up?
Idiok: Nope, we don't need it.
Julietta: Well, time to go test my MS far away from you guys. Good luck with the incompetent commander.

Famous last words: "Don't worry, Lieutenant, they can't possibly hit us at this dist..."

[Dragon_Slayer_X]

Iok Kujan must have become one of the most hated characters in Gundam History with actual reasons rather than bias. Antagonists like Bask and Yazan at least had some skills and brain despite being despicable but Iok basically comes off with nothing but idiocy and a group of dumb followers because family name.

Iok: We are going to show off our honor and grandstanding

By using forbidden weapons on civilians who are basically women and children :twitch:


Iok: No need to convert to battle mode

Runs like a bitch behind his seat when Hammerhead was charging:heh:


Iok: I have avenged my comrades (who basically died protecting me)

By messing up Tekkaden's plan and getting civilians killed :confused:


This guy is the just the incarnation of all that is pure stupidity and retarded. Maybe Mika can ask him for a Honorable(?) duel and keep smashing him until he turns into paste.


Also Julietta: I will become Rustal's sword(?) by going out in my shiny new model against people who are basically civilians and on the defensive side.

Gets bitch slapped and almost beaten by a veteran pilot who was outnumbered and then the suit was damaged because of friendly fire (courtesy to Ioktard). The humiliation just keeps on piling.

[DmonHiro]

Also Julietta: I will become Rustal's sword(?) by going out in my shiny new model against people who are basically civilians and on the defensive side.

Actually, Julietta never attacked the retreating ships, nor did she have any intention of doing so. All she wanted was an opponent to fight against so she could get data on her new MS. Anyone strong would have been OK but if there wasn't anyone to fight I really doubt she would have attacked the ships. She also seems to have a sort of code of honor since she was visibly upset when Iok ignored the ceasefire request.

As for Iok getting punished by GH, well... thing is GH may be the antagonists, but they are doing their very best to maintain the idea that they are an honorable organization. Rustal in particular values the status quo more then anythhing. Bad publicity is the last thing they want right now and Iok left plenty of evidence in that last battle. I really doubt anyone else other the GH have that many railguns. Also, McGillis knows that the railguns were taken out of GH's storage and I doubt Iok is smart enough to cover his tracks. This is basically a gold mine for McGillis, and he didn't even have to do anything. Iok just sent him a whole ammo depo to use against GH.

Also the last thing Rustal said to Iok was "Cool your head". Iok went in the exact opposite direction.

[ReddyRedWolf]

I wonder if a lawyer can make the case Iok is criminally insane given he cannot appreciate nature or quality or wrongfulness of the acts nor can he distinguish fantasy from reality.

[kgrodriguez]

One more thing, Shino did not even refer to Flauros as Flauros. Just Ryusei-Go. Not Ryusei Flauros Go, or Flauros Go, Or RyuFlaurosei Go.

I think I hate that more than the pink. Flauros is such a cool name.

[Irenesharda]

I hope to see a conversation between Rustal and Iok go something like this:
Let me get this straight. You used illegal weapons, refused to accept surrender, attacked unarmed transports, the Turbines were defending... and you STILL lost a ship?!

You know what? I had actually given Iok some credit in that his plan actually worked until I saw this. Now, I have to shake my head...so despite Iok pulling out all the stops, even using illegal weapons, sinking lifeboats, and battling it out with one man in a ship and one woman in a MS, he still lost an entire ship and crew and probably really damaged his own, and that's not counting those who fell to Lafter, Akihiro and the team. So, in a way, his incompetence strikes again!

Yeah, I'm pessimistic about Iok getting punished by GH for what he did. I mean, he might get scolded, might lose his standing in the 7 star families council (if he had any, that is), his alliance with Rustal might get dissolved (doubtful though, since Rustal was aware to a degree of what Iok was doing), but I doubt there will be any legal consequences for what he did. I mean, it's a blow to GH's already tattered reputation, so it's not profitable for them any to air their dirty linen in public again, so... Izanario was forced to go into exile because his schemes, involving something as big and grave as trying to usurp the supreme authority of one of the economic blocs through Fleur by killing her opposition, got exposed publicly and, due to their political nature, rallied all blocs against them (no big wig wants something like that happen in their own bloc). But in this case, even if McGillis makes it public, I'm not sure if the effect will be all that strong, at least probably not on that level, because, you know, the Turbines is part of the mafia, has nothing to do with big politics or big wigs in economic blocs, and that fact is bound to divide the public in their opinion and view of what happened. So I guess we'll have to wait for Iok getting punished for all what he did by extralegal means, that is, brutally killed by our protagonists.

It really all depends on a lot of things. Iok's men were really worried about him taking out that banned weaponry and cautioned him more than once. And that was just at taking it out, much less using it. They seemed to insinuate that there would be consequences, even to someone like Iok.

Macky is a master of politics and knows how to spin a story, the entire last season showed that. All he needs is the right evidence and the right words. But to be honest, its not the people he needs to talk to, it's the council. Iok has already been in hot water with them, it wouldn't take much for them to take harsher action. Iznario was going to get arrested, I think Iok could too, if just to get him out of the way. There is already a lack of a present family head with the Issues, I don't think they will miss Iok, and it wouldn't tarnish their standing. However, if it gets out that GH, who was already hit hard after Edmonton, was killing women and children with weapons that they themselves had banned? Yes the Turbines were linked to the mafia, but I'm going to guess they were well respected in the outer sphere and probably have some friends on Earth as well. Iok's action and continued messes would spell real danger for the organization. It would actually be smarter for them to quietly resolve all this, strip Iok of his power and tell him to go "retire" somewhere.

Actually, Julietta never attacked the retreating ships, nor did she have any intention of doing so. All she wanted was an opponent to fight against so she could get data on her new MS. Anyone strong would have been OK but if there wasn't anyone to fight I really doubt she would have attacked the ships. She also seems to have a sort of code of honor since she was visibly upset when Iok ignored the ceasefire request.


I don't know, she was pretty desperate to prove herself. And she didn't seem upset, moreso, just rolling her eyes at more of Iok's antics.
It's quite possible if no one had been out there to fight, I wouldn't put it past her to shoot at the fleeing ships to lure someone out to fight. Julietta can be quite ruthless, especially as she follows Rustal's footsteps, who does many a ruthless thing himself.

I wonder if a lawyer can make the case Iok is criminally insane given he cannot appreciate nature or quality or wrongfulness of the acts nor can he distinguish fantasy from reality.

My brother is a lawyer who watches this show, I'll ask him what he thinks. :p But I'm sure you could make a small case for Iok, but it wouldn't hold up. His action in regards to the cease-fire show that he was in his right mind while all of this was going on and knew from right and wrong. Why else would he ask his men to lie? Also, he says himself that he must be ruthless to stand with Rustal, which means that he knows what he's doing is cruel. But he's going to do it anyway.

[dragon1412]

TBH, while I do agree that Idiok will get away with this, I think that McGillis might be able to pull off something, even if Idiok managed to get covered by the power of the Gjarllarhorn, all McGillis needed was a reason to start a revolution. Even if Idiok was covered, McGillis can still spread rumor, anon info, ... and people will try to find it on their own. As long as the conflict between earth and Gjarllarhorn devolved enough for a revolution, I'd say our Chocoman is succeed. And this is not mentioning that not all members of 7 stars are on Rustal's side, some will inevitably stood on the opposite
One more thing, Shino did not even refer to Flauros as Flauros. Just Ryusei-Go. Not Ryusei Flauros Go, or Flauros Go, Or RyuFlaurosei Go.

I think I hate that more than the pink. Flauros is such a cool name.

my friends, Finally someone understand my plight.



My brother is a lawyer who watches this show, I'll ask him what he thinks. :p But I'm sure you could make a small case for Iok, but it wouldn't hold up. His action in regards to the cease-fire show that he was in his right mind while all of this was going on and knew from right and wrong. Why else would he ask his men to lie? Also, he says himself that he must be ruthless to stand with Rustal, which means that he knows what he's doing is cruel. But he's going to do it anyway.

Not gonna work, one things is that, Mcgillis said it himself, the case is under Idiok's jurisdiction, even as a member of 7 stars McGillis still can't interfere with it, there is also no record as well, any record from Turbines's is considered invalid as they are formerly Turbines.

[Irenesharda]

Not gonna work, one things is that, Mcgillis said it himself, the case is under Idiok's jurisdiction, even as a member of 7 stars McGillis still can't interfere with it, there is also no record as well, any record from Turbines's is considered invalid as they are formerly Turbines.

We were talking hypothetically if a case can be made that Idiok was criminally insane, as a defense if this was ever to go to trial. I stated that it could, but the insanity defense would not stand for the reasons that I have stated. This has nothing to do with jurisdiction, we were talking hypothetical trial here.

(Oh, I did talk to my bro, but he hadn't seen the episode yet. But he did say that insanity defense rarely works, but in terms of war crimes and how a military court would handle Iok, it would depend on that country's military. But he basically thinks my overall thoughts are sound.) ;)

But going back to jurisdiction in your statement, what's going on in space would be Arianrhod's jurisdiction in terms of dealing with crime in space, at least in terms of customs checks that sort of thing, at least around the inner sphere. And technically its not Idiok who is in charge there, but Rustal, who is over him.

However, Idiok's actual war crimes would be the jurisdiction of the entire Seven Stars council. Also the fact that Iok used the weapons from a Gjallerhorn warehouse that was on Earth, which is Macky's jurisdiction, might also play a factor.

[dragon1412]

We were talking hypothetically if a case can be made that Idiok was criminally insane, as a defense if this was ever to go to trial. I stated that it could, but the insanity defense would not stand for the reasons that I have stated. This has nothing to do with jurisdiction, we were talking hypothetical trial here.

(Oh, I did talk to my bro, but he hadn't seen the episode yet. But he did say that insanity defense rarely works, but in terms of war crimes and how a military court would handle Iok, it would depend on that country's military. But he basically thinks my overall thoughts are sound.) ;)

But going back to jurisdiction in your statement, what's going on in space would be Arianrhod's jurisdiction in terms of dealing with crime in space, at least in terms of customs checks that sort of thing, at least around the inner sphere. And technically its not Idiok who is in charge there, but Rustal, who is over him.

However, Idiok's actual war crimes would be the jurisdiction of the entire Seven Stars council. Also the fact that Iok used the weapons from a Gjallerhorn warehouse that was on Earth, which is Macky's jurisdiction, might also play a factor.

While this is correct, and is probably what I suspected Chocoman will do, basically, blow thing out to all media, from a purely hypothetical trial POV, I'd still say hardly, 1 things is that once in court, we need evidence, however, the only 2 party present was the Turbine and Idiok, any testimony from the girls will obviously be overruled, as they are formerly Turbines. On the other side, unless Rustal finally had enough of Idioky from Idiok, the Arianahood is obviously going to cover this. The Turbines was framed as well. As for the usage of banned weapon, Idiok could always use the reason of he was forced to use it in the chance that the Turbines might use the one in their possession, sure crappy lies and we all knew it, but in a court it work in Idiok's favor

[DMurphy]

Er.

I mean, one thing. We're talking about how Iok might get off if he goes to trial, but would it even go to trial at all?

We've seen several times now that Gjallarhorn doesn't need to put people on trial. It's empowered to act as police force, prosecutor, judge, jury, and executioner all in one. It's not a jury who would need to be convinced, it's not even the Seven Stars who need convincing: It's just Rustal, who can then quietly have Iok meet with an accident.

[asaqe]

Iok Kujan must have become one of the most hated characters in Gundam History with actual reasons rather than bias. Antagonists like Bask and Yazan at least had some skills and brain despite being despicable but Iok basically comes off with nothing but idiocy and a group of dumb followers because family name.

Iok: We are going to show off our honor and grandstanding

By using forbidden weapons on civilians who are basically women and children :twitch:


Iok: No need to convert to battle mode

Runs like a bitch behind his seat when Hammerhead was charging:heh:


Iok: I have avenged my comrades (who basically died protecting me)

By messing up Tekkaden's plan and getting civilians killed :confused:


This guy is the just the incarnation of all that is pure stupidity and retarded. Maybe Mika can ask him for a Honorable(?) duel and keep smashing him until he turns into paste.


Also Julietta: I will become Rustal's sword(?) by going out in my shiny new model against people who are basically civilians and on the defensive side.

Gets bitch slapped and almost beaten by a veteran pilot who was outnumbered and then the suit was damaged because of friendly fire (courtesy to Ioktard). The humiliation just keeps on piling.

He did succeed. Jsasley will act as his cleaner, acquire companies hiring surviving turbines and enjoy the spoils of Lafter, Azee and the rest of the girls in their placr. As sex slaves and playthings for Jasley.

We will see what kind of power play Jasley is gonna pull soon enough

[Anh_Minh]

I wonder if a lawyer can make the case Iok is criminally insane given he cannot appreciate nature or quality or wrongfulness of the acts nor can he distinguish fantasy from reality.

Sure, why not (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/feb/06/texas-teenager-affluenza-escapes-jail-second-time)?

[Skye629]

He did succeed. Jsasley will act as his cleaner, acquire companies hiring surviving turbines and enjoy the spoils of Lafter, Azee and the rest of the girls in their placr. As sex slaves and playthings for Jasley.

We will see what kind of power play Jasley is gonna pull soon enough

Clean up what? He's not stupid enough to head out to the scene of the battle, where Gjallerhorn is and giving a legitimate reason to believe that he was linked to the whole incident

And if you paid any attention to the episode at all, Barriston promised Naze working positions for the girls DIRECTLY UNDER HIM, nobody else. Even then they are mostly free to do what they wish now, and more likely than not, a decent portion of them are gonna end up with Tekkadan

[Irenesharda]

And if you paid any attention to the episode at all, Barriston promised Naze working positions for the girls DIRECTLY UNDER HIM, nobody else. Even then they are mostly free to do what they wish now, and more likely than not, a decent portion of them are gonna end up with Tekkadan

I don't think Barriston actually has working positions for them himself., and definitely not one that could handle almost 50,000 people. He delegates and supervises, he doesn't seem to actually work any particular industry himself.

Actually, looking back, Barriston said "groups directly under him" which would include any groups that are supervised by people on his little council. Those would all be groups directly under him. (Unlike Tekkadan for example, which was under Naze, who was under McMurdo) That includes Jasley. He even said they probably wouldn't stay together but be broken up into different teams, which tells me that probably spread out within the organization. This offer actually reminds me of the one Naze gave Orga way back when they first met, about taking in what had just become Tekkadan, taking all their assets and giving them all better jobs, though they probably wouldn't be able to stay together.

I think for that reason, like Tekkadan did, the remaining Turbine girls will refuse the offer.

As for Jasley, considering Jasley's continued comments about offering the women a "better" position, under him, that he might think to take the "grieving widows" for himself.
I think McMurdo would deny him, if just because of the friction between the two, and that would continue to aggravate the man, especially if he places them all with Tekkadan.

[asaqe]

Clean up what? He's not stupid enough to head out to the scene of the battle, where Gjallerhorn is and giving a legitimate reason to believe that he was linked to the whole incident

And if you paid any attention to the episode at all, Barriston promised Naze working positions for the girls DIRECTLY UNDER HIM, nobody else. Even then they are mostly free to do what they wish now, and more likely than not, a decent portion of them are gonna end up with Tekkadan

As in cleaning up the Turbines end of the affairs. By putting the girls under Jasley and his partners wing they will be in a shitty situation. Especially if Jasley keeps Lafter to himself threatening to have Tekkadan booted from Teiwaz if they make any objections

[Skaddix]

We don't know if he runs anything directly himself.

Iok didn't leave a paper trail. The Dort Massacre was more messy purely cause they got caught thanks to Kudelia having a way to get a broadcast on and keep it on. In this case its Turbines and Few Tekkadan members known for supporting McGillis. Hardly non biased.

Use of illegal weapons can be justified with the argument that the Turbines had illegal weapons and we had to use them to counter the threat of them using it against us.

[tdx]

And if you paid any attention to the episode at all, Barriston promised Naze working positions for the girls DIRECTLY UNDER HIM, nobody else. Even then they are mostly free to do what they wish now, and more likely than not, a decent portion of them are gonna end up with Tekkadan
I don't think Barriston actually has working positions for them himself., and definitely not one that could handle almost 50,000 people. He delegates and supervises, he doesn't seem to actually work any particular industry himself.

Actually, looking back, Barriston said "groups directly under him" which would include any groups that are supervised by people on his little council. Those would all be groups directly under him. (Unlike Tekkadan for example, which was under Naze, who was under McMurdo) That includes Jasley. He even said they probably wouldn't stay together but be broken up into different teams, which tells me that probably spread out within the organization. This offer actually reminds me of the one Naze gave Orga way back when they first met, about taking in what had just become Tekkadan, taking all their assets and giving them all better jobs, though they probably wouldn't be able to stay together.
We don't know if he runs anything directly himself.OK, wait, guys, that starts to sound like a misunderstanding. If Barriston meant what Irenesharda suggests, he would have said "jobs in Teiwaz" because by that definition the whole Teiwaz is under him. So no, I disagree with that interpretation.

Jobs in groups directly under Barriston means jobs in those companies that he - not Jasley or any other schmuck, but he himself - is the director/president of. That's how I understood that particular phrase on the first watch and my understanding didn't change after I saw Daisuki's subs.

Like Jasley runs JPT Trust (that includes a multitude of smaller companies), Naze ran Turbines (which apparently included a lot of various transport service companies, too), so I have no doubt that Barriston himself runs a multicompany business besides being the head of the Teiwaz conglomerate. He promised Naze to put the girls in the firms directly under him obviously because he's well aware that framing Naze was an inside job by someone in Teiwaz. He may have his suspicions that it's Jasley, but I'm sure he doesn't know with certainty if it's only Jasley or maybe some other Teiwaz top brass members (that are running their own companies as well) are in cahoots with him and thus had a hand in setting up the Turbines. As long as he's not sure how many people from the Teiwaz leaders are involved with framing the Turbines, the only safe place for the girls where they won't have to worry about their superiors finding devious and twisted ways to make them regret even being alive (or maybe even arranging for "accidents" to happen to them) is Barriston's own companies.

That's why it's so interesting to see what Barriston does next, because from his wording, he clearly knows that the Gjallarhorn Idiot is nothing more than a means to an end and the one to actually take out Naze was one of Teiwaz's own top leaders (well, he must know it's Jasley, too, because he's not the boss of Teiwaz for being stupid).

[Irenesharda]

Iok didn't leave a paper trail. The Dort Massacre was more messy purely cause they got caught thanks to Kudelia having a way to get a broadcast on and keep it on. In this case its Turbines and Few Tekkadan members known for supporting McGillis. Hardly non biased.

Use of illegal weapons can be justified with the argument that the Turbines had illegal weapons and we had to use them to counter the threat of them using it against us.

Any records left behind would be considered a paper trail. The fact that Isurugi was able to find that Iok took something out of the warehouse shows us that he has no knowledge of how to cover his tracks.
Even without Kudelia, the Dort Massacre would be messy. All massacres are, it's practically part of the title. In fact the only reason anyone DID know that Gjallerhorn was sort of responsible was because of Kudelia. Without her, it would have been completely lost in the shuffle of all the chaos and destruction. The investigation after the dust settled would have been much too late.
It worked out great for Rustal just like it always does.

Iok on the other hand, he's not that savvy. He left behind lots of evidnece that someone like McGillis can find. Sure it wasn't as public as the massacre, but it was much more sloppily executed.

OK, wait, guys, that starts to sound like a misunderstanding. If Barriston meant what Irenesharda suggests, he would have said "jobs in Teiwaz" because by that definition the whole Teiwaz is under him. So no, I disagree with that interpretation.

Jobs in groups directly under Barriston means jobs in those companies that he - not Jasley or any other schmuck, but he himself - is the director/president of. That's how I understood that particular phrase on the first watch and my understanding didn't change after I saw Daisuki's subs.

Like Jasley runs JPT Trust (that includes a multitude of smaller companies), Naze ran Turbines (which apparently included a lot of various transport service companies, too), so I have no doubt that Barriston himself runs a multicompany business besides being the head of the Teiwaz conglomerate. He promised Naze to put the girls in the firms directly under him obviously because he's well aware that framing Naze was an inside job by someone in Teiwaz. He may have his suspicions that it's Jasley, but I'm sure he doesn't know with certainty if it's only Jasley or maybe some other Teiwaz top brass members (that are running their own companies as well) are in cahoots with him and thus had a hand in setting up the Turbines. As long as he's not sure how many people from the Teiwaz leaders are involved with framing the Turbines, the only safe place for the girls where they won't have to worry about their superiors finding devious and twisted ways to make them regret even being alive (or maybe even arranging for "accidents" to happen to them) is Barriston's own companies.

That's why it's so interesting to see what Barriston does next, because from his wording, he clearly knows that the Gjallarhorn Idiot is nothing more than a means to an end and the one to actually take out Naze was one of Teiwaz's own top leaders (well, he must know it's Jasley, too, because he's not the boss of Teiwaz for being stupid).


I don't see how McMurdo can oversee an entire conglomerate AND also control his own companies at the same time. You just don't have the time while trying to supervise a company so large. You don't see the CEO of Disney also trying to produce movies and direct a cartoon. He get others to do that and have people over them and then people over them and then everybody reports to him and he oversees and balances it all. I just don't see it.

But we'll see next week what will happen. Though I seriously think that Jasley might make a play to take some of Naze's left behind assets, including his workers.:uhoh:

[MgMaster]

Iok Kujan must have become one of the most hated characters in Gundam History with actual reasons rather than bias. Antagonists like Bask and Yazan at least had some skills and brain despite being despicable but Iok basically comes off with nothing but idiocy and a group of dumb followers because family name.

Iok: We are going to show off our honor and grandstanding

By using forbidden weapons on civilians who are basically women and children :twitch:


Iok: No need to convert to battle mode

Runs like a bitch behind his seat when Hammerhead was charging:heh:


Iok: I have avenged my comrades (who basically died protecting me)

By messing up Tekkaden's plan and getting civilians killed :confused:


This guy is the just the incarnation of all that is pure stupidity and retarded. Maybe Mika can ask him for a Honorable(?) duel and keep smashing him until he turns into paste.


Also Julietta: I will become Rustal's sword(?) by going out in my shiny new model against people who are basically civilians and on the defensive side.

Gets bitch slapped and almost beaten by a veteran pilot who was outnumbered and then the suit was damaged because of friendly fire (courtesy to Ioktard). The humiliation just keeps on piling.

'Least we got something out of it...but Naze & Amida's deaths were too heavy of a price to pay regardless :(

I was really getting hopeful towards the end there that either Amida will headshot Iok with her last shot or the Hammerhead will just destroy his ship and he'd bite the dust already, but the bastard lives...Yea, the guy'll prolly die(he'd better),but it should've been the Turbines' kill ~ Mika kills enough people already anyway.

Maybe Lafter will be the one to take him out, or at least Orga.

[asaqe]

Orga is going to kill Iok at the price that revenge brings to a person. Orga's mindframe is going to suffer from this no doubt but he wants to be the one to end Iok and Jasley's life for the suffering they brought upon others.

[tdx]

I don't see how McMurdo can oversee an entire conglomerate AND also control his own companies at the same time. You just don't have the time while trying to supervise a company so large. You don't see the CEO of Disney also trying to produce movies and direct a cartoon. He get others to do that and have people over them and then people over them and then everybody reports to him and he oversees and balances it all. I just don't see it.

But we'll see next week what will happen. Though I seriously think that Jasley might make a play to take some of Naze's left behind assets, including his workers.:uhoh:Teiwaz is not one company, it's a conglomerate composed of multiple companies. Some of those companies have to be Barriston's own. Just like Tekkadan is Orga's, JPT Trust is Jasley's and how Jasley is its head while at the same time doubling as Teiwaz's second-in-command. It's the matter of chain of command or probably legal property rights: most of the companies report to the members of that Teiwaz council, like JPT Trust reports to Jasley, but there's some of them that report directly to Barriston - that's why they're "directly under him", i.e. the other members of the council have zero power over them, thus making those companies the only safe place for the Turbine girls. Frankly, this is the only interpretation that makes any sense to me.

[Skye629]

As in cleaning up the Turbines end of the affairs. By putting the girls under Jasley and his partners wing they will be in a shitty situation. Especially if Jasley keeps Lafter to himself threatening to have Tekkadan booted from Teiwaz if they make any objections

You do realize that as things currently stands Jasley has ZERO power to take any of the Turbine assets other than through force? Everything's in Barriston's hands atm, and it pretty clear Jasley's deluded that he's gonna be the new "favorite child" since Naze is dead. He also has ZERO power over any of the Turbine girls, other than once again, using force, as I highly doubt any of the girls would go over to scum like him (especially considering their previous conditions before being saved)

We don't know if he runs anything directly himself.


Just going off what was said in the episode, nor would Barriston make any empty promises. He clearly has the power to make it happen, even if there are no current positions available

Teiwaz is not one company, it's a conglomerate composed of multiple companies. Some of those companies have to be Barriston's own. Just like Tekkadan is Orga's, JPT Trust is Jasley's and how Jasley is its head while at the same time doubling as Teiwaz's second-in-command. It's the matter of chain of command or probably legal property rights: most of the companies report to the members of that Teiwaz council, like JPT Trust reports to Jasley, but there's some of them that report directly to Barriston - that's why they're "directly under him", i.e. the other members of the council have zero power over them, thus making those companies the only safe place for the Turbine girls. Frankly, this is the only interpretation that makes any sense to me.

This pretty much. Barriston had to come from somewhere, so its extremely likely that he has his own private companies that responds directly to him. All the other companies headed by the other Turbine leads more or less respond/report to Barriston through their respective heads, cutting out a lot of the work

Lets say he DID divide the Turbine assets. They're 100% not all going to Jasley, theres at least a dozen other important Turbine leaders to spread the assets to whom are probably more trustworthy/loyal, or at the very least people Barriston knows he can entrust the women to



Finally and most importantly, I don't want this shit to drag out any longer, if by the 1% chance that Jasley gets the girls, then we will have a stupid save the girls arc that would take up AT LEAST another couple of episodes when we should be instead moving towards a goddamn endgame. The Gjallerhorn conflict has long been built towards, but all the build-up has been minimal so far through tiny nudges in more self contained mini-arcs. We have 9. 9 goddamn episodes left, and the conflict hasn't even started in earnest yet.

IMO Jasley needs to either die next episode, or they move on the Gjallerhorn conflict, and when thats over, Jasley is exposed and they kill him off at the very end





TLDR on the whole Jasley gets the girls shit: It sounds like a fucking sick fanfiction to see the girls in such a situation which does absolutely fucking nothing to the overall plot other than waste time while the show has been building up to much much bigger things which haven't even fully started yet

[Azurial]

is funny how people thinks the turbine girls will be in the hand of "Jerkley" :D, and i think the old man doesnt even want to hand them in "Jerkley" hand lol. people gotta stop watching/reading NTR crap it will make you deluded with a bad imagination XD . right now Turbines girl is in the old man protection if he would hand them over it would be Tekkadan ( he seem to like them especially Mika ) and IF by any chance "Jerkley" kill the old man than it would be another story. if i were to guess about 2 episode "Jerkley" will be expose and hopefully the Turbines girl kill him or Orga :D

[Twi]

Even if his use of the weapons can be excused and shooting fleeing ships that weren't firing back (Yzak got away with that in SEED), Iok's basically done. The fact that he did the job sloppy is reason enough to cut him. As for Jasley... hehehehe... I give him three episodes top before he gets executed.

[asaqe]

is funny how people thinks the turbine girls will be in the hand of "Jerkley" :D, and i think the old man doesnt even want to hand them in "Jerkley" hand lol. people gotta stop watching/reading NTR crap it will make you deluded with a bad imagination XD . right now Turbines girl is in the old man protection if he would hand them over it would be Tekkadan ( he seem to like them especially Mika ) and IF by any chance "Jerkley" kill the old man than it would be another story. if i were to guess about 2 episode "Jerkley" will be expose and hopefully the Turbines girl kill him or Orga :D

I just see this as a bad to worse scenario as seen with the death of Naze and the Turbine's dissolution. Season 2's whole rone has been depressing as a whole as Mika gives up his dream of a civilian life, the disaster that befallen upon the Earth Branch and now this tragedy. Things are only getting worse for Tekkadan and this a salt in the wound moment

[Tenzen12]

I am pretty sure Jasley will try get girls. Though he is going fail miserably if he thinks McMurdo would play along with that.

[tdx]

Season 2's whole rone has been depressing as a whole as Mika gives up his dream of a civilian life, the disaster that befallen upon the Earth Branch and now this tragedy. You know, about Mika's dream. I have to wonder if Mika really had a dream. Yeah, there's his farm talk, but that's one aspect of writing that I find really messy and inconsistent in this show: first we learn that he wants to run a farm, we even see how he tried to cultivate something other than corn and there was a talk that he did it to be able to make a living off just a farm. But then, suddenly, he questions himself in Kudelia's office what he's supposed to do in a world without fighting (like he's completely forgotten about the farming possibility he pursued until then) and later tells Orga that he couldn't understand what a peaceful world is. It's contradictory, at the very least, and I find myself hard-pressed to figure out how I'm supposed to interpret these contradictions.

[Irenesharda]

You know, about Mika's dream. I have to wonder if Mika really had a dream. Yeah, there's his farm talk, but that's one aspect of writing that I find really messy and inconsistent in this show: first we learn that he wants to run a farm, we even see how he tried to cultivate something other than corn and there was a talk that he did it to be able to make a living off just a farm. But then, suddenly, he questions himself in Kudelia's office what he's supposed to do in a world without fighting (like he's completely forgotten about the farming possibility he pursued until then) and later tells Orga that he couldn't understand what a peaceful world is. It's contradictory, at the very least, and I find myself hard-pressed to figure out how I'm supposed to interpret these contradictions.

Oh, I don't think that part is too hard to understand. Its a matter I think of dream vs career vs what is realistic. When we first heard him, he said he wanted to have a farm. And we know that this actually is something that predates the show since Orga brings it up as if Mika has already told him this before. And we see also that its not just a passing fantasy for Mika either. He's observed it enough, even before knowing how to read and write, that he knows the work involved in having a farm, but more importantly, he knows that its not a very lucrative business. It:s not something that you can make a living off of, at least not on its own and not on Mars.

So, I think that while Mika planned to have his own farm, he never planned for that to be the way he made his living. I think he was always planning to keep being a mercenary w/CGS/stay with Tekkadan/go wherever Orga was. It was sort of how a soldier still keeps active duty, but they do want a home and a place to come to where they can do more peaceful activities like for him, farming.

Later when Kudelia is talking about a peaceful world without war. Like Mika, honestly I don't know what a world like that would look like either since its a near impossibility. It IS many a peace princess' dream, but it is honestly not a very realistic one. But that's neither here nor there. Again, I think that Mika's response is that one in which he never intended to be only a farmer. He planned to have both, be both a farmer and a fighter, as that would be the only ways he knows of making a living. He's pretty much a soldier born and bred and its extremely hard for someone who has been trained to live in that life for so long to suddenly try to do something else. A world without war, without conflict, would be one without use to them. It would be one they can't understand and can't comprehend. I think this would be true for not just Mika, but actually many of Tekkadan who have had no formal education and have been fighting since they were yea high to a beanstalk.

Kudelia does talk about them learning new options and finding other things to do in the world, but unlike her who is so well rounded and can say that with such ease, its not so easy for most of the others. There IS a set window in terms of age, growth, and mentality, and it is closing fast for many of them. Some of them, like those who are ex-Human Debris will never have the same chances as the others unless there is a radical change in society, and that's something that's going to take years. Until then, I think Tekkadan needs to continue to be a haven for these boys and many others who find themselves in the same straits. And as more than simply a company, but almost as a way of life, a place that they can have their own families as well. The Turbines for example, were a haven for women for many years, but suddenly due to one incident, they are now disbanded, adrift without a leader and have to rely on the kindness of others. Tekkadan needs to learn from this and make up plans for the future of its company and people. If Orga dies, then what? If Mika dies, then what? What about Eugene? If something happens to him, what then? If someone wants to come against them like Iok did to the Turbines, what does Tekkadan do?
This all needs to be considered, and that is one of my biggest reasons that I think the rulers of Mars ploy needs to happen, if for nothing else than the security of Tekkaden and its people.

As for our ace, once he made the choice to fight Hashmal in order to make sure Orga didn't have to. Mika knew the consequences, but his loyalty to Orga and to helping him and keeping him and Tekkadan safe is greater than all of his personal dreams and desires. This makes sense since Tekkadan is worth more to him than farming. Not only is it a place that he intended to keep working at (his career if you will) but its also his home and his family. Mika knows as we all do, that if Orga goes, really so does Tekkadan at this point. And to be honest, if Orga goes, so might Mika's sanity. All of that against his own personal dream? Not really much of a contest...

[tdx]

So, I think that while Mika planned to have his own farm, he never planned for that to be the way he made his living. I think he was always planning to keep being a mercenary w/CGS/stay with Tekkadan/go wherever Orga was. It was sort of how a soldier still keeps active duty, but they do want a home and a place to come to where they can do more peaceful activities like for him, farming.I thought so, too, that he planned to double-job as a merc and farmer. But I thought so only until the moment when we were told that he was trying to grow something other than corn specifically for the purpose of making a living off just farm. That wording implies that he had given such a lifestyle a thought - or even wished to live like that, testing if it was possible. That's the stumbling rock here, that wording, damn it, because it logically means he had given a thought to the life where he wouldn't have to be a merc, only a farmer. And later it all just kinda got retconned... If only they'd never mentioned that life just off a farm, it would all have made sense to me, but alas.

If Orga dies, then what? If Mika dies, then what? What about Eugene?If Orga dies, yeah, it will spell the end of Tekkadan, so they can't let him, no matter what sacrifices among the Tekkadan grunts have to be made just to keep him alive (life is unfair, isn't it, and not all lives are priced equally...). Eugene, too, might die like some grunt due to his newfound loyalty to Orga, by protecting him. And all points to us finding out what would happen when Mika dies... :upset:

[Azurial]

Mika death could be the end of war like Tekkadan finally reach its goal, GH reach its doom and rebuild into a better justice police force XD not corrupted scumbag like Idiok's. but yes im OK if Mika dies if he die for the peaceful of Mars but Orga he still need to lead Tekkadan so he cant die.

[Irenesharda]

If Orga dies, yeah, it will spell the end of Tekkadan, so they can't let him, no matter what sacrifices among the Tekkadan grunts have to be made just to keep him alive (life is unfair, isn't it, and not all lives are priced equally...). Eugene, too, might die like some grunt due to his newfound loyalty to Orga, by protecting him. And all points to us finding out what would happen when Mika dies... :upset:

I'm just thinking, that while I love Naze to death (no pun intended), he lacked ambition and forward thinking, and I think his family paid a bit for it. He really should have thought of a long term plan of what would happen to the Turbines if something happened to him or if an event like what we just got occured. Now, despite McMurdo's promises, it's like they are adrift without an anchor.

I'm hoping that Tekkadan can learn from this so that they can plan for the future as well.

[tdx]

I'm just thinking, that while I love Naze to death (no pun intended), he lacked ambition and forward thinking, and I think his family paid a bit for it. He really should have thought of a long term plan of what would happen to the Turbines if something happened to him or if an event like what we just got occured. Now, despite McMurdo's promises, it's like they are adrift without an anchor.

I'm hoping that Tekkadan can learn from this so that they can plan for the future as well.I agree pretty much with everything, maybe only with a reservation about planning: it might be impossible for them right now.

In S1 from Amida's comment that Orga was like the old Naze, I was under the impression that Naze is basically an older settled-down Orga who found ways to curb his proactive driven nature and learned to project a laidback calm facade. But this season, and especially two latest episodes, proved that perception wrong. I don't know what Amida looked at, exactly, when she gave the aforementioned characteristic, but Orga isn't a younger Naze and Naze isn't an older and wiser version of Orga, the two are very different from the start. What they do have in common is their compassionate nature and desire to help wronged people if they can. But in the other crucial aspects they're sometimes even polar opposites, for better or for worse.

Naze seems to be mostly the going-with-the-flow type, and from his and Amida's backstory, I can't help thinking that he had achieved as much as he did not because he was driven to achieve it and moved towards a set goal with all his might despite any obstacles, but because he found himself in the circumstances that favored him taking the path he took, providing him with required chances at opportune moments (meeting Amida, using her connections to all-girl transport firms to unite them; we don't know how he got into Teiwaz, but I'm willing to bet it was because a chance presented itself, too). Without those circumstances and that luck, I imagine he's actually the type that would be content to lead a peaceful life in some backwater town. That is, like you said, for a leader of an organization of that caliber and with connections that dangerous he fatally lacks drive and ambition.

Orga, on the other hand, seems like he's always hungry and never content with what he's already got. Sure, there's pressure from Mika, but it's clearly not his only motivator. His own nature is what drives him as well. Moreover, from the few flashbacks that the show provided, it's visible that his ambition and leadership drive - things that set him apart from Naze - started manifesting as early as his child years already. They only grew with him growing up, backed up by his outstanding talents as a strategist, charismatic leader, military commander and a hardworker, as per Nagai's comment. We know that he easily stole the 3rd group leader position from Eugene (compare to Naze apparently not even trying to steal Teiwaz's second-in-command position from Jasley, despite Barriston clearly favoring him over Jasley), and the fact that Orga's was the only name and face Maruba knew (all the others, including Eugene though excluding Biscuit, were apparently nothing more than a faceless bunch of brats to him) and how Maruba cowered in fear when he realized Orga was coming for his head is an indicator of how big and fearsome existence Orga was becoming.

The culmination point of everything that's different in Orga compared to Naze was his decision to pursue the King of Mars ambition. At that point Orga clearly had a choice - between the good and the better. Tekkadan was in a more or less good place already: they had received the half-metal mine from Barriston which could guarantee their future and they could've slowed down, limited their growth as a military organization and maybe started gradually switching to going legal and becoming a civilian business. Orga understood his options very well, that's why he felt guilty during that little talk with Mika on the way back to Mars after Takaki had quit Tekkadan. But he still chose the "better"; Mika didn't really press him to at the time, so that decision was Orga's own hunger and ambition talking. If Naze were in Orga's shoes, I'm sure he would've chosen the "good", to be content with what he had already achieved instead of reaching for the sky without any guarantees.

In Hosoya's opinion, the problem with Orga right now is that he can't distinguish anymore whether he's doing what he's doing for own ambitious desires or for Tekkadan. In a way, Tekkadan is becoming his own personal sword, like Mika. But that's a different topic.

So the bottom line of this comparison between Naze and Orga is, Orga has what it takes to be a world caliber leader, while Naze simply didn't which led to what we saw.

Imo, right now, Tekkadan is in a transitional state; until the war is over and they know the result, whether good or bad, with some semblance of stability returning, planning for the future is probably useless. Until then, Orga is absolutely irreplaceable and his fall would drag Tekkadan down with him as well, not to mention his death.

[asaqe]

I have to agree, Orga would never ahave allowed Jasley to make that move, he would have Naze handle Jasley while he killed Iok for fielding the weapon seeing this is the perfect opportunity to kick some Gjallarhorn heads in for their little stunt a month ago.

He has perfect reasons for it
"So you decided that unleashed a forbidden weapon wasn't good enough for one time and now you decided to frame us for using the Dansleifs?"

"Wait, that voice...its McGillis' dogs Tekkadan! I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR YOU?"

"Damn right, you even got a friend within Teiwaz to spill the beans for you? Mika probably would say look who's talking right now"

"Wait is that true? Did you...."

"SILENCE! I, Iok Kujan will restore the dignity of my clan by destroying you Tekkadan! Then I will have Jasley destroy the Turbines as well!"

"Hell you will, everyone get ready for combat! Focus on the snipers!"

[Skaddix]

Yeah Orga would have taken Jalsey out.

Naze is Space Fellani. In that sure he is passionate but he also pretty laid back and that was his problem.

Orga jumps to violence first while Naze is diplomatic to a fault. Naze just kinda seemed to have lucked into his position by drifting through life. His chief motivation for even doing the Turbine thing was he wanted to bang Amida on a permanent basis. He took his opportunities as they arose but he never wanted to run the show. He lacks the drive.

Orga on the other hand was at what 5 or 7 or whatever with Mika after they killed that dude was like F This we are going to "Build A Better World For Us" Orga in his position by design not by accident. He systematically put himself in charge of the Third Group and then the whole organization and now all of Mars. Orga also has better advice even if Mika and the kill them all approach is usually in the driver seat. Merribit and the Old Man especially chip in good advice. And I assume Kudelia will eventually be in the counterbalance position to replace Biscuit. Naze can really only get advice from Amida.

[asaqe]

Another thing was the whole battle with DHC. Badly outnumbered and realized they are in a trap. Orga said it well. Retreat and there will be casulties regardless. If you were framed of a crime you didnt commit the only anwser in this case is to shoot your way through as the retreat still got people killed. At least with hardened resolve you could have got a reason to keep living and be in exile vs a grave

[Faux Mecha]

if they ever released kits for the Dainsleif cannons i will sure prop them up with both Tekkadan & Turbines wielding the weapons pointing at Iok's Reginlaze, heck even Julieta points one at him too.

[Skye629]

if they ever released kits for the Dainsleif cannons i will sure prop them up with both Tekkadan & Turbines wielding the weapons pointing at Iok's Reginlaze, heck even Julieta points one at him too.

Wouldn't surprise me if they release an IBA add on for it + the aiming head piece

[tdx]

Orga also has better advice even if Mika and the kill them all approach is usually in the driver seat. Merribit and the Old Man especially chip in good advice. And I assume Kudelia will eventually be in the counterbalance position to replace Biscuit. Actually, I'm hoping Kudelia can fare better than Biscuit.

If you think about it, Biscuit was vocal with his protests, yes, but it looks like Orga always got his way anyway, overpowering Biscuit and making him cave in in the end. It was like that when Orga decided to seek out Teiwaz while Biscuit urged him to maybe hire a better armed subcontractor for delivering Kudelia to Earth, the same happened when Orga decided to take on Naze despite Biscuit's protests about there being a room for negotiations, and ultimately, on the island where Orga literally outglared Biscuit into submission during the talk with Makanai. Moreover, from their dialogue a bit later, with Orga saying that Biscuit always went along with his crazy plans without a complaint and Biscuit correcting him and saying that he always complained, it's just that Orga never listened, it follows that Biscuit was always forced into submission one way or another by Orga (erm, that sounded wrong somehow, but you get my drift :heh:), probably because he was the follower type and never quite on the equal footing.

Well, it wasn't like Biscuit was useless, of course. It was his protests that made sure that Orga at least always knew what options he cast away and what risks and consequences his more dangerous decisions could bring about. This is the component he critically lacks after Biscuit's death, I guess. Especially seeing how the other Tekkadan members, including Eugene, are now his yesmen.

Now, as to Kudelia, she is a leader herself. In the second half of S1 she's showed that she can be suitably unbendable, stubborn, driven and demanding when she feels she has the right or it's a matter she feels she absolutely can't concede (and the good of people is such a matter to her).

Sure, she didn't raise much of a protest, letting Orga shut her up during the discussion of McGillis' tantalizing offer, but I believe it was because she didn't feel it's her place to say much or she had the right because really, in that case she didn't. The matter of whether to take up Macky on his offer or not didn't concern her, the choice was Orga's and Tekkadan's only, and she couldn't tell them what to do with their lives or their company. But when it comes to the good of the people of Mars, I'm sure she won't keep quiet.

So all in all, once she's in the position to have a say, she should be Orga's match when it comes to the stubbornness contest - one who, unlike Biscuit, won't cave in to Orga's force and pressure.

[Skaddix]

Well its more Tekkadan is not a Democracy. Biscuit can say whatever he wants but he is not changing hearts and minds. Especially when Mika is saying the opposite so combine Mika hero worship and Orga's charisma and every decision goes their way. Kudelia has more charisma though so that should help.

[Irenesharda]

Actually, I'm hoping Kudelia can fare better than Biscuit.

If you think about it, Biscuit was vocal with his protests, yes, but it looks like Orga always got his way anyway, overpowering Biscuit and making him cave in in the end. It was like that when Orga decided to seek out Teiwaz while Biscuit urged him to maybe hire a better armed subcontractor for delivering Kudelia to Earth, the same happened when Orga decided to take on Naze despite Biscuit's protests about there being a room for negotiations, and ultimately, on the island where Orga literally outglared Biscuit into submission during the talk with Makanai. Moreover, from their dialogue a bit later, with Orga saying that Biscuit always went along with his crazy plans without a complaint and Biscuit correcting him and saying that he always complained, it's just that Orga never listened, it follows that Biscuit was always forced into submission one way or another by Orga (erm, that sounded wrong somehow, but you get my drift :heh:), probably because he was the follower type and never quite on the equal footing.

Well, it wasn't like Biscuit was useless, of course. It was his protests that made sure that Orga at least always knew what options he cast away and what risks and consequences his more dangerous decisions could bring about. This is the component he critically lacks after Biscuit's death, I guess. Especially seeing how the other Tekkadan members, including Eugene, are now his yesmen.

Now, as to Kudelia, she is a leader herself. In the second half of S1 she's showed that she can be suitably unbendable, stubborn, driven and demanding when she feels she has the right or it's a matter she feels she absolutely can't concede (and the good of people is such a matter to her).

Sure, she didn't raise much of a protest, letting Orga shut her up during the discussion of McGillis' tantalizing offer, but I believe it was because she didn't feel it's her place to say much or she had the right because really, in that case she didn't. The matter of whether to take up Macky on his offer or not didn't concern her, the choice was Orga's and Tekkadan's only, and she couldn't tell them what to do with their lives or their company. But when it comes to the good of the people of Mars, I'm sure she won't keep quiet.

So all in all, once she's in the position to have a say, she should be Orga's match when it comes to the stubbornness contest - one who, unlike Biscuit, won't cave in to Orga's force and pressure.

Biscuit served as Orga's second and advisior at the time, but Orga was still the leader. So that means that while Orga will indeed listen to Biscuit and the entire council that he has (Eugene, Shino, Akihiro, Mika, and now Chad, Merribit, and at times Kudelia), he is the one who makes the ultimate decision and will take on all the responsibility.

As Shaddix said, Tekkadan is not a democracy, it isn't headed by a board or a council, but by one man. However, what's good about Orga is that he listens and asks for advice from all his subordinates, takes it all in and then makes the best choice he can. But still it's ultimately his choice. He has the right to accept or reject what advice comes to him, from Biscuit, or anyone else.

No one else will have the authority he has unless he allows them, and even then, I don't think the others would listen to them in the same capacity. (Mika is an aberration in that he kind of does have the same authority as Orga, but he doesn't take a leading role so it's kind of moot in that degree)

I think Kudelia should continue to be the leader of her own company and help and advise Tekkadan as she can. Once they achieve being the kings of Mars, then she can advise them in an even greater capacity and I think Orga would leave entire sections of the relations between them and the local colony governments in her hands, especially to make the changes that she wants to do. But even in that, I don't think she would have equal authority to Orga.

[tdx]

Orga's the ultimate and final authority when it comes to Tekkadan. In that I completely agree with you two. And that's why, as I pointed out, Kudelia didn't really try to object to his choice of pursuing Macky's offer.

But when it comes to the whole of Mars? No, he can't be and shouldn't be the only authority, because a planet is not a private army, it's a much more complex system. Since it has been established that he kinda sucks in politics on top of him being a military leader used to people obeying his decisions whatever they are, it's simply dangerous if he's the sole authority of a whole planet with no equal counterbalance. I don't doubt his good intentions, but he's only human who can make mistakes, and global politics is not his area of expertise.

Besides, despite her scarce presence in S2, I don't recommend underselling Kudelia. Orga has military might behind him alright, but Kudelia is the voice of the people, their hope, and she has the power of the people backing her up. And when all is said and done, governing a planet is all about the nation, the people. Orga may have the official authority in his hands if McGillis' plan succeeds, but Kudelia's influence among the masses obviously is and will continue to be on a completely different level. If she so wanted, the "army" she could mount as the Maiden of Revolution (we've glimpsed in Dorts how it works) would easily outnumber anything under Orga's command. Of course she won't, but the fact remains. That's why I'm against reducing her to the role of just his subordinate. She should never be that, she's an existence already too great for just that. In fact, she's basically the only existence that has what it takes to be equal to Orga when he's on top because what she commands, as incorporeal and intangible as it may be, doesn't lose out to the power he strives to get his hands on.

[Tenzen12]

Though if you remember Kudelia decided that time of populistic speeches ended and went full businesswoman instead.

Regardless whether she can move masses or not, she decided not to.

[Skaddix]

Eh tdx, Kudelia cant really surpass Orga through speeches. One Orga sucks at Politics but he has no trouble delivering speech after speech and as shown with the Brewer kids, he can tailor the speech perfectly to get results. He and Mika are also good at reading people and figuring out what they want. He lacks the patience for it, its a temperament issue. He is result oriented.

Orga has the Military Force and The results ie Victories. That has every young boy wanting to sign up for Tekkadan. So they can get martyred like the Great Hero Biscuit. So no I don't think Kudelia could mount any force of commoners that can stand up to Orga. Who has 3 Gundams, Mika and years of military strategy and tactical ability to crap all over Kudelia.

Kudelia and Orga would work purely as complements. They can both give speeches. But Orga is the Military and Kudelia is Politics.

[tdx]

It's not about being able to stand up, it's about having people on your side. Kudelia's number will obviously always be greater because it's her forte to move hearts of the oppressed, wronged and etc.

[Skaddix]

She can give a good speech sure.

But so can Orga and he also has results as in win after win. We went to Cookie and Crackers new school all the boys wanna sign up for Tekkadan. Biscuit getting lionized as the great martyr for Mars.

Tekkadan doesn't need Kudelia at this point nearly as much as she needs them if she wants any chance of getting her agenda through. From here to maybe the final episode its going to be decided on the battlefield. Kudelia's useful after that.

[tdx]

The new Tekkadan recruits also wanted out after their first battle because all the romanticized illusions of grandeur broke against the hard reality of battlefield and death. It will be like that with the most prospective candidates, too, like IRL.

Kudelia's speech in Dorts where she declared she would fight, even if alone, left all the Tekkadan members, including Orga, awed and speechless for a few seconds. Orga can move troops with his speeches, but Kudelia can move anyone to do the right thing, be it workers, activists, casual obsevers or Senate members.

Let's just say I want the better for Mars, and with just Orga, without Kudelia calling shots in politics and economics, it just seems impossible.

[Skaddix]

Well as I said the end result is most likely both of them running Mars.

Anyone lets see her move Jalsey or Rustal.

[Domonkazu]

wow they really killed the best characters of the series.