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Giuseppe1234
2020-09-08, 16:09
Ddraig is stronger, he and Crom were holding back otherwise the whole battle field would have been destroyed, Indra and Mahabali were going all out.
Also Ddraig in vol 2 during Indra vs Mahabali:

If there are several of that level is just "quite troublesome" ... just troublesome ...

Source? Becuase no one of the aura's bullets was described to be as powerful as an infinity blaster. Furthemore not even the aura's attacks of Vali who are superior than those of Ddraig and Crom. Especially than Ddraig that his aura's attacks without penetrate could not damage him.

It's not necessary destroy a field to to does not hold back, furthemore only versus the end of the fight they were putting attention on the field.

As for Issei who several time used powerful attack as Crimson blaster in close fields, focusing all the power into a point rather than destroy everything.
Otherwise the attacks of Mahabali and Indra would have defeated their teammates, when a single infinity blaster of issei could cover the majority of the field with Sona, so big that were necessary hours to reach the other side.

If we have to be coherent, already with an of Ddriag all the field would have been destroyed being a bit bigger than Kuow town, when kokabiel could destory the city with a hit.

Ddraig evaded the concentrated mass of aura while still breathing out his flame, but as he did that, the aura bullet that he evaded went straight to the ground and made a big explosion. If that thing were to be fired to the ground several times, even this solid game field would be damaged greatly. The mass of aura that fell onto the ground created a giant crater. What was worse was thatit wasn’t only just one, as the numbers of the craters created kept on increasing after that. What would come out first, either one of them getting defeated, the game field getting destroyed, or…the match between Rias Gremory and Hyoudou Issei being settled?

Ddraig closed his mouth and stopped breathing fire upon seeing that his attacks made little progress and only destroyed the game field..

“Though I don’t want to destroy the field, we still need power in order to fight.”

If they didn’t care about their surroundings at all, they would be able to fight more freely. Plus, if they were truly serious in fighting someone and were to do it in the human world or the Underworld, there would be able to easily destroy the city. An enormous amount of aura being released from either of their hands or mouths would instantly turn a large area into ashes. However, it didn’t mean that both of them cannot fight without destroy the field, as the two of them were doing it right now.

[Well, we just have to enjoy this while trying not to destroy the field.]

As Ddraig breathed his flames out, Crom Cruach responded by charging through the flame and attempted to tackle Ddraig. .

How is relevant the part about the heavenly Kings/Asura Gods? They are powerful, but not as a chief god or top 10. Indra and Mahabali are in another world and were not mentioned

Then, only with the match of those two issei was felling a bit sad for their attack's power. I remember you P DxD is equal or slightly inferior than Ddraig in Aura.

Until every casual attack of Vali, Issei, Ddraig or Crom will be powerful as an infinity blaster they are inferior?

ps: I'm not saying that mahabali is weak, but not as strong as you say that you put it on top of hades, crom cruach, ddraig and albion.

Based on what? Both of their casual attacks were powerful as infinity blaster. Not even Ddraig, Issei, Vali and co can do the same.

If every my normal attack is as powerful as your strongest attack means something.

Sakra also didn’t come out unscathed. Sakra had visibly suffered several injuries here and there on his body, as shown on-screen.

As of both are mentioned at the top of every mythology, the enbodiment of the strongest.

For the logic of Sairaorg that is a match to see yet, Erebus is more powerful than Vidar or Belial is better than Typhon team. Or even Sairaorg>Balberith

godz
2020-09-08, 16:39
Based on what? Both of their casual attacks were powerful as infinity blaster. Not even Ddraig, Issei, Vali and co can do the same.

If every my normal attack is as powerful as your strongest attack means something.

Sakra also didn’t come out unscathed. Sakra had visibly suffered several injuries here and there on his body, as shown on-screen.

As of both are mentioned at the top of every mythology, the enbodiment of the strongest.

For the logic of Sairaorg that is a match to see yet, Erebus is more powerful than Vidar or Belial is better than Typhon team. Or even Sairaorg>Balberith

The lightning that burned Dragon King Vritra—. However, the Prince of the Godly Ashura Tribe, God Mahabali was…on a whole different level. Even after being wounded and having received Sakra’s lightning, he still managed to counterattack furiously. All of God Mahabali’s attacks were so powerful that even the shockwave produced by a slash from his Godly Sword was enough to blow up a mountain on the field! Xenovia said as she gulped.

“…Watching all of these attacks, this truly feels like a mythological-scale battle.”

Just like what Xenovia said, the field’s terrain and scenery were blown away by attacks from every single one of them…Movies and CG graphics were like a joke compared to them. Rias said.

“And I’ve heard that they’ve strengthened the field’s durability since the prelims. So for them to be able to destroy the field… Once again, we can see how scary the War God and Godly Asura Tribe can be.”

…Shit. Each of their attacks felt as strong as my Dragon Deification’s ace move, [Infinity Blaster]! Ddraig, who was inside me, said.

[Partner. The guys you’re watching stand at the top even among the mythologies. They’re the embodiment of the strongest. However, we have fought against Vidar with his Midgardsormr armor and the King of Monsters Typhon, and we won against them. We’ve also conquered the Evil Dragon Apophis and the Primordial God Nyx. Have a little faith.]

…Well, you’ve got a point… The battle between the Gods who excelled in combat was truly overwhelming…

[Don’t worry, I’ll be there when the time comes. Is it not enough?]

I don’t know what to say if you say that! It was a complaint from one of the strongest Two Heavenly Dragons — Red Dragon Emperor-sama after all.



…Right. That will depend on the combination with me as well as the solidarity between my comrades.

[Kukuku.]

Ddraig laughed. Why’d you laugh…?

[If it were the past you, you would’ve trembled and lost all hope upon seeing this. But, right now, even though you’re scared, you’re still struggling to find a way to defeat them… That’s because you still believe that there is hope, right?]

…It’s far away. It’s still far away. But if I’m with you…. If I am with my comrades…! —I feel like we can face any opponent!

[That’s great. No matter who it is that comes at us, we’ll just have to show them the [Welsh Dragon], that is you and me, partner.]

As I deepened the bond with my partner, the match between the Gods was also about to come to its end. [B]Whilst God Mahabali was attacking Sakra, it looked like he was about to reach his limit too as the strength and frequency of his attacks dropped. However, God Mahabali’s eyes still shone brilliantly as he charged a vast amount of aura into his Godly sword and unleashed it upon Sakra. Both [Kings] met in the sky in the centre of the field!

they were not just casual, it was all the power of mahabali in his eagerness to defeat Indra and hence he was getting tired of such massive power, and even making attacks that change the fields vali (in shin dxd 4) or crom cruach (in dxd volume 23) can do it, even crom cruach's casual fist was compared to the power of the infinity blaster as it was crom cruach's answer to issei's infinity blaster against the baraquiel team.

and it's your logic, because the exaggerated level you give to mahabali is the same that we put erebus in the top 10 because he did incredible damage to issei who had defeated viddar who was stronger than thor or tartarus for holding out the power of AxA, therefore baalberith's punching bag is overrated from you.

in conclusion mahabali is strong, but not as strong as you place it on guys like hades, ddraig, albion or obviously crom cruach.

saucerKing
2020-09-08, 17:46
Ddraig is stronger, he and Crom were holding back otherwise the whole battle field would have been destroyed, Indra and Mahabali were going all out.
Also Ddraig in vol 2 during Indra vs Mahabali:

If there are several of that level is just "quite troublesome" ... just troublesome ...
the first statement is ddraig telling issei to stop selling himself so low, it cant really be taken into account for this since he mention nyx of all people

this is the same ddraig that said he could destroy the world several times over. also ddraig and crom were only containing themselves on the aura blasts, not on everything and mahabali and indra feat of equaling issei infinity blaster was whit normal attacks, literally every attack from them was equal to issei trump card.

it feels like a mahabali shonen moment, more than a valid feat ... i mean let's see something similar with sairaorg in his confrontation with indra and i don't think that will escalate sairaorg to the top 10 :p

ps: I'm not saying that mahabali is weak, but not as strong as you say that you put it on top of hades, crom cruach, ddraig and albion.
mahabali has literally one fight from where to get real feats, one where he put issei in DxD to shame and had the power of issei strongest attack in each single attack. the loss against baalberith was back when he was the guy who was stated to have the potential to face a dragon god. sairaorg case cant even be counted, it was bullshit in every single way conceivable whit baalberith going from some top tier level fighter to losing to sairaorg due to "stamina"... against a form that is outright said to consume a lot of stamina.


they were not just casual, it was all the power of mahabali in his eagerness to defeat Indra and hence he was getting tired of such massive power, and even making attacks that change the fields vali (in shin dxd 4) or crom cruach (in dxd volume 23) can do it, even crom cruach's casual fist was compared to the power of the infinity blaster as it was crom cruach's answer to issei's infinity blaster against the baraquiel team.

and it's your logic, because the exaggerated level you give to mahabali is the same that we put erebus in the top 10 because he did incredible damage to issei who had defeated viddar who was stronger than thor or tartarus for holding out the power of AxA, therefore baalberith's punching bag is overrated from you.

in conclusion mahabali is strong, but not as strong as you place it on guys like hades, ddraig, albion or obviously crom cruach.
that argument does not disprove those being normal attacks though? yes he got tired eventually, everyone gets tired eventually during a fight, the difference is that mahabali could spam attacks on that level many times while issei can do it once and most his stamina is gone.

also source for crom casual punches matching an infinity blaster? as far as feats go mahabali could stand against indra for a limited time and spam IB level attacks while ddraig and crom have no such feats, and the best thing hades has shown was durability, nothing else and even then he got a lot of damage from vali lucifer satan smasher.

featwise mahabali is still above anything ddraig, crom or issei have shown aside of AxA.

godz
2020-09-08, 18:16
the first statement is ddraig telling issei to stop selling himself so low, it cant really be taken into account for this since he mention nyx of all people

this is the same ddraig that said he could destroy the world several times over. also ddraig and crom were only containing themselves on the aura blasts, not on everything and mahabali and indra feat of equaling issei infinity blaster was whit normal attacks, literally every attack from them was equal to issei trump card.

mahabali has literally one fight from where to get real feats, one where he put issei in DxD to shame and had the power of issei strongest attack in each single attack. the loss against baalberith was back when he was the guy who was stated to have the potential to face a dragon god. sairaorg case cant even be counted, it was bullshit in every single way conceivable whit baalberith going from some top tier level fighter to losing to sairaorg due to "stamina"... against a form that is outright said to consume a lot of stamina.


that argument does not disprove those being normal attacks though? yes he got tired eventually, everyone gets tired eventually during a fight, the difference is that mahabali could spam attacks on that level many times while issei can do it once and most his stamina is gone.

also source for crom casual punches matching an infinity blaster? as far as feats go mahabali could stand against indra for a limited time and spam IB level attacks while ddraig and crom have no such feats, and the best thing hades has shown was durability, nothing else and even then he got a lot of damage from vali lucifer satan smasher.

featwise mahabali is still above anything ddraig, crom or issei have shown aside of AxA.

The man — Crom Cruach extended his hand and unleashed an extraordinary attack! In an instant, the area in front of him had been overwhelmed by an explosion, and the large special barrier that had been deployed over the entire marine area was dealt a devastating blow. With the single strike that Crom Cruach released — a colossal hole had opened up in the sky and the middle of the sea where cracks in the dimension itself could be noticed. Seawater from the field flowed down into the cracks of the dimension. Throughout the tournament, only god-class attacks had been able to cause such ridiculous damage to the game field’s barrier…. Needless to say, not only did these opponents lack the strength to fight back, but five of them had already been retired in that instant. …So, Rias’ [Pawn] is…Crom Cruach…! Sitting beside me, Saji was also astounded and completely lost for words. As for Vali, it seems that he anticipated Crom Cruach’s participation, and he looked delighted to finally see him make an appearance. The announcer yelled out

<<T-The field has — been destroooyyyeeddd! That could be described as a godly blow! No, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to call it something beyond that! As another of the Dragon species, it is reminiscent of Hyoudou Issei-senshu’s incredibly fierce cannon blast!>>

…Purely in terms of power, I was confident that I wouldn’t lose to him. The problem was the number of times that that attack could be used, and how long that level of firepower could last. Ddraig said

[…That guy, Crom Cruach. He destroyed the field on purpose. Your previous battle must have given him some inspiration.]

Vali laughed.

“Fufufu, he must’ve done that deliberately. I wonder if Crom Cruach himself decided to do that, or whether it was an order from the leader. Either way, it seems like there’s some kind of mutual understanding.”

“Is that a challenge from Crom to me?”

When he heard me say that, Vali pleasurably said

“It was for probably for me and the other strong contestants to see. This is very interesting. Indeed, this how it should be. This is the essence of this tournament.”

…Just to show off, he had erased the field.

a casual attack from crom cruach and vali's attacks on aura in DxD L managed to rival this force, as shown in his duel against nezha and where issei highlights it.

saucerKing
2020-09-08, 19:10
The man — Crom Cruach extended his hand and unleashed an extraordinary attack! In an instant, the area in front of him had been overwhelmed by an explosion, and the large special barrier that had been deployed over the entire marine area was dealt a devastating blow. With the single strike that Crom Cruach released — a colossal hole had opened up in the sky and the middle of the sea where cracks in the dimension itself could be noticed. Seawater from the field flowed down into the cracks of the dimension. Throughout the tournament, only god-class attacks had been able to cause such ridiculous damage to the game field’s barrier…. Needless to say, not only did these opponents lack the strength to fight back, but five of them had already been retired in that instant. …So, Rias’ [Pawn] is…Crom Cruach…! Sitting beside me, Saji was also astounded and completely lost for words. As for Vali, it seems that he anticipated Crom Cruach’s participation, and he looked delighted to finally see him make an appearance. The announcer yelled out

<<T-The field has — been destroooyyyeeddd! That could be described as a godly blow! No, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to call it something beyond that! As another of the Dragon species, it is reminiscent of Hyoudou Issei-senshu’s incredibly fierce cannon blast!>>

…Purely in terms of power, I was confident that I wouldn’t lose to him. The problem was the number of times that that attack could be used, and how long that level of firepower could last. Ddraig said

[…That guy, Crom Cruach. He destroyed the field on purpose. Your previous battle must have given him some inspiration.]

Vali laughed.

“Fufufu, he must’ve done that deliberately. I wonder if Crom Cruach himself decided to do that, or whether it was an order from the leader. Either way, it seems like there’s some kind of mutual understanding.”

“Is that a challenge from Crom to me?”

When he heard me say that, Vali pleasurably said

“It was for probably for me and the other strong contestants to see. This is very interesting. Indeed, this how it should be. This is the essence of this tournament.”

…Just to show off, he had erased the field.

a casual attack from crom cruach and vali's attacks on aura in DxD L managed to rival this force, as shown in his duel against nezha and where issei highlights it.
how convenient that you skipped the paragraph right before that

The man in the large black coat flew and charged at the opponents across the sea while he reached out with his arm. …Enveloped in an incredibly potent aura, it was compressed and compressed again until it turned into a powerful destructive shockwave! Upon seeing the man who flew in the air in front of them, the announcer called out

yeah, totally something crom can spam willy nilly in an instant. not like he was gathering power, totally a casual attack, and this totally is applicable to a casual fist like you said.

also vali did nothing comparable to spamming IB attacks in his fight whit nezha, in fact he even failed to damage nezha universe rings whit his aura blasts.

also what crom did was not even comparable, compare opening a hole in the sea to this

<<Ooooohh! W-W-What just happened! T-The field actually! More than half of the field has actually been annihilated! Incredible! Hyoudou Issei-senshu’s cannons have erased the field’s scenery! THIS IS TRULY POWER BEYOND IMAGINATIIIOOOOON!>>

yeah, no. issei infinity blaster blew up half of the whole field to oblivion, all crom did was make a hole in the field.

godz
2020-09-08, 19:22
how convenient that you skipped the paragraph right before that

The man in the large black coat flew and charged at the opponents across the sea while he reached out with his arm. …Enveloped in an incredibly potent aura, it was compressed and compressed again until it turned into a powerful destructive shockwave! Upon seeing the man who flew in the air in front of them, the announcer called out

yeah, totally something crom can spam willy nilly in an instant. not like he was gathering power, totally a casual attack, and this totally is applicable to a casual fist like you said.

also vali did nothing comparable to spamming IB attacks in his fight whit nezha, in fact he even failed to damage nezha universe rings whit his aura blasts.

also what crom did was not even comparable, compare opening a hole in the sea to this

<<Ooooohh! W-W-What just happened! T-The field actually! More than half of the field has actually been annihilated! Incredible! Hyoudou Issei-senshu’s cannons have erased the field’s scenery! THIS IS TRULY POWER BEYOND IMAGINATIIIOOOOON!>>

yeah, no. issei infinity blaster blew up half of the whole field to oblivion, all crom did was make a hole in the field.

As if the six arms of Mahabali and his divine weapons of Hindu origin were not equivalent, not to mention that Issei himself says that in power he would not lose and that the difference is that the one who could not carry so many attacks of that magnitude ... counting Vali's laugh and saying that it was only to show off, I have already passed issei's comment several times about that feat and a point vali if I destroy the weapons, the problem is that they can be regenerated.

the feat of mahabali hurting indra is the same as that of erebus hurting issei pseudo dxd G, but the difference is that I do not see anyone driving erebus top 10, I advise you not to overestimate Indra so much because ichie may dash him .

The announcer yelled out

<<T-The field has — been destroooyyyeeddd! That could be described as a godly blow! No, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to call it something beyond that! As another of the Dragon species, it is reminiscent of Hyoudou Issei-senshu’s incredibly fierce cannon blast!>>

…Purely in terms of power, I was confident that I wouldn’t lose to him. The problem was the number of times that that attack could be used, and how long that level of firepower could last. Ddraig said

[…That guy, Crom Cruach. He destroyed the field on purpose. Your previous battle must have given him some inspiration.]

saucerKing
2020-09-08, 19:41
As if the six arms of Mahabali and his divine weapons of Hindu origin were not equivalent, not to mention that Issei himself says that in power he would not lose and that the difference is that the one who could not carry so many attacks of that magnitude ... counting Vali's laugh and saying that it was only to show off, I have already passed issei's comment several times about that feat and a point vali if I destroy the weapons, the problem is that they can be regenerated.

the feat of mahabali hurting indra is the same as that of erebus hurting issei pseudo dxd G, but the difference is that I do not see anyone driving erebus top 10, I advise you not to overestimate Indra so much because ichie may dash him .

The announcer yelled out

<<T-The field has — been destroooyyyeeddd! That could be described as a godly blow! No, it wouldn’t be an exaggeration to call it something beyond that! As another of the Dragon species, it is reminiscent of Hyoudou Issei-senshu’s incredibly fierce cannon blast!>>

…Purely in terms of power, I was confident that I wouldn’t lose to him. The problem was the number of times that that attack could be used, and how long that level of firepower could last. Ddraig said

[…That guy, Crom Cruach. He destroyed the field on purpose. Your previous battle must have given him some inspiration.]
the difference is that mahabali weapons do their thing just whit any slash, crom on the other hand not only did not do something comparable, he did not even do it as casually as you implied. its like comparing xenovia swinging durandal to issei crimson blaster, one requires charging, the other doesn't and we saw what happened when mahabali did an actual charged attack. and vali laughing means nothing, vali was laughing because of his battle maniac boner, not because he found crom attack laughable, he was excited that crom was stronger than he expected. also albion outright states that in destructive power crom was above him

not really, mahabali was seen fighting on-screen a total of one time, that single battle is the only one where we can take reference of how strong he is. the thing whit erebus on the other hand was completely inconsistent whit issei current power-level, we had seen issei in a much harder fight (against vidar) and he was not nearly as tired as after erebus, he was about to "pass out" after fighting erebus despite the fight being shorter than the one against vidar and receiving even less damage from a weaker god, and even then he somehow not only does not lose his DxD form but he proceeds to use an even more stamina-intensive form against tartarus. so either issei suddenly went down a few levels or he was exaggerating his tiredness.

put shorter, mahabali fought a single time on-screen so it cannot be "inconsistent" when there is nothing else to compare to, while erebus fight can be directly compared to something else and one can easily see the inconsistency.

and yes ishibumi might give indra the nerf hammer like did whit baalberith but that is besides the point, until it happens it cant be counted. and even then it depends on how it happens since we saw baalberith vs sairaorg and even if it did happen it does not make it any less nonsensical.

dnb
2020-09-09, 01:04
Source? Becuase no one of the aura's bullets was described to be as powerful as an infinity blaster. Furthemore not even the aura's attacks of Vali who are superior than those of Ddraig and Crom. Especially than Ddraig that his aura's attacks without penetrate could not damage him.

It's not necessary destroy a field to to does not hold back, furthemore only versus the end of the fight they were putting attention on the field.

As for Issei who several time used powerful attack as Crimson blaster in close fields, focusing all the power into a point rather than destroy everything.
Otherwise the attacks of Mahabali and Indra would have defeated their teammates, when a single infinity blaster of issei could cover the majority of the field with Sona, so big that were necessary hours to reach the other side.

If we have to be coherent, already with an of Ddriag all the field would have been destroyed being a bit bigger than Kuow town, when kokabiel could destory the city with a hit.

“Though I don’t want to destroy the field, we still need power in order to fight.”
If they didn’t care about their surroundings at all, they would be able to fight more freely. Plus, if they were truly serious in fighting someone and were to do it in the human world or the Underworld, there would be able to easily destroy the city. An enormous amount of aura being released from either of their hands or mouths would instantly turn a large area into ashes. However, it didn’t mean that both of them cannot fight without destroy the field, as the two of them were doing it right now.
[Well, we just have to enjoy this while trying not to destroy the field.]
As Ddraig breathed his flames out, Crom Cruach responded by charging through the flame and attempted to tackle Ddraig. —Dragon, the strongest living being on earth. The two of these great monsters, who even amongst Dragons were near the top, found an equal enemy and continued their fierce fight—. From that point on, Ddraig and Crom Cruach continued their fight consisting of tackles, flames and auras—

Vali is not superior to Ddraig, he is inferior, Ddraig is overall equal to Crom, he just had to understand his way of fighting at the beginning, Crom was alive and training, Ddraig was sealed, if Ishi wants he can just make Ddraig and Albion idiots and come with something like: "After being seald for so long I forgot how strong I was, for some reason I was using only 70% of my prime power".
Let me remind you Crom become HD level in vol 23 and above HD in raw power in vol 24.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-09, 09:44
Vali is not superior to Ddraig, he is inferior, Ddraig is overall equal to Crom, he just had to understand his way of fighting at the beginning, Crom was alive and training, Ddraig was sealed, if Ishi wants he can just make Ddraig and Albion idiots and come with something like: "After being seald for so long I forgot how strong I was, for some reason I was using only 70% of my prime power".
Let me remind you Crom become HD level in vol 23 and above HD in raw power in vol 24.

Even in volume 16 in his if I'm not mistaken correct me if I'm wrong it's already been implied or stated by Draig that Crom Cruach achieved Heavenly Dragon class . And Vali was more less comparable to Albion in his prime in his DxD L while he's below Crom in terms of raw power and defence. Draig can fight on par with Crom in their fight due to his abilities Boost and Penetrate.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-09, 10:48
they were not just casual, it was all the power of mahabali in his eagerness to defeat Indra and hence he was getting tired of such massive power, and even making attacks that change the fields vali (in shin dxd 4) or crom cruach (in dxd volume 23) can do it, even crom cruach's casual fist was compared to the power of the infinity blaster as it was crom cruach's answer to issei's infinity blaster against the baraquiel team.

and it's your logic, because the exaggerated level you give to mahabali is the same that we put erebus in the top 10 because he did incredible damage to issei who had defeated viddar who was stronger than thor or tartarus for holding out the power of AxA, therefore baalberith's punching bag is overrated from you.

in conclusion mahabali is strong, but not as strong as you place it on guys like hades, ddraig, albion or obviously crom cruach.

Mainly @saurerking said what I wanted to write...However even if he was getting tired, from the consume of aura and damages received, but how is relevant?

Mahabali was realising instantly an infinity blaster from each sword without charge, that is how you fire a normal attack as for issei with Dragon shots ecc. As for AxA who its casual attacks are more infinity blaster or for you issei was putting all his power?
As for even him was extremely tired at the end.

Crom Cruach covered his fist of an incredible quantity of energy compressed, if he can make casual attacks of such level, with 2 punches would have defeated Vali or would have described.

Again with this story of Vali? I want the citation of Issei who said Vali’s attacks were powerful as infinity blaster, as for the fact that if it was true Nezha would have been injured seriously and would have destroyed the touki’s rings.
Furthermore even the quantity of damage was different.

Even AxA or Shooting star or Balor Rias, Vasco can destroy the field, so their power is equal? This motivation is not valid.

The problem is Mahabali fought only one time, while with Erebus there are other fights of Issei P DxD to say was incoherent, when he fought Vidar without those damages. Otherwise now I will say Sairaorg is a super devil stronger than Issei and Vali with the potential to defeat Ophis having defeated Balberith.

Vali is not superior to Ddraig, he is inferior, Ddraig is overall equal to Crom, he just had to understand his way of fighting at the beginning, Crom was alive and training, Ddraig was sealed, if Ishi wants he can just make Ddraig and Albion idiots and come with something like: "After being seald for so long I forgot how strong I was, for some reason I was using only 70% of my prime power".
Let me remind you Crom become HD level in vol 23 and above HD in raw power in vol 24.

Convenient skip everything? I want valid motivations and it’s not true what you said.

Ddraig evaded the concentrated mass of aura while still breathing out his flame, but as he did that, the aura bullet that he evaded went straight to the ground and made a big explosion. If that thing were to be fired to the ground several times, even this solid game field would be damaged greatly. The mass of aura that fell onto the ground created a giant crater. What was worse was thatit wasn’t only just one, as the numbers of the craters created kept on increasing after that. What would come out first, either one of them getting defeated, the game field getting destroyed, or…the match between Rias Gremory and Hyoudou Issei being settled?

Ddraig closed his mouth and stopped breathing fire upon seeing that his attacks made little progress and only destroyed the game field..

At the beginning both were destroying the field firing aura’s attacks, flames and else, only at the end they put attention to it.
Furthermore since when if you do not destroy the field, you can not fight seriously? I remember you Issei fired Crimson blaster in underground fields or cities as with Grendel or Rivezim.

“ However, it didn’t mean that both of them cannot fight without destroy the field, as the two of them were doing it right now.”

Based on what? Ddraig was inferior in everything than Crom. The same Ddraig and Albion said Crom surpassed both in attack and defense.
The flames of Ddraig were easily reflected by Crom’s arm or by his flames who were stronger.

“ Their flames’ power was equal—. No, Crom Cruach’s was indeed more powerful as it slowly forced Ddraig’s flame back!

—A fighting style that only uses one’s own stamina, aura, and fire. With just those things, he is able to stand against me, the one who was called the Heavenly Dragon. Not only that, the strength of his fire is superior, and I even already used my [Boost] ability. The only thing I can say is, I am surprised.”

Crom had an arm Broken, furthermore Ddraig only with Penetrare could damage Crom with Aura’s attacks because the normal were deflected easily or not given him damages as for the flames. Only in the fight hand was the only possibility to win, furthermore Crom was evading aura’s attacks with Penetrate, leaving Ddraig without more advantages when Boost were not enough.

How is relevant being sealed? No one mentioned it as a problem, as for the fact Ddraig at the first summon (and fight) after centuries defeated Typhon and blow away Apollon easily.

Now read better the fight of Vali, who surpassed Albion who is equal to Ddraig.
The demoniac’s attacks of Vali were so faster Crom could not avoid them. Crom for his-self admission said who would have been in danger if would have taked more of them.

With the first explosion Crom’s blood sprayed out in every direction and after half dimension Crom’s body covered and dripping in blood.

Vali is faster than both Crom/Ddraig, Albion, furthermore he has not even chosen to fight more far possible from Crom as with Nezha, using his velocity higher and the wyverns.

Vali has compression divider and Satan compression divider that are a lot of better than Divide, With the wyverns he has more rate of fire, firing from every angle and blind spot, can use better half dimension and there is Satan Longinus Smasher.

“ [But, partner. He simply has damage to that degree with no enhancement at all. Despite the fact that you are in your crimson armour form. He sneaked into the Human world and the Underworld even after Albion and I were sealed into the Sacred Gears to continue training himself. To be honest, I can’t actually calculate how strong he is now. He hasn’t revived after being destroyed, and continued to live and train himself in this era. There is a chance that he has reached the Heavenly Dragon class. ……So it isn’t wise to battle him now.]“

Vol16.

dnb
2020-09-09, 10:55
Even in volume 16 in his if I'm not mistaken correct me if I'm wrong it's already been implied or stated by Draig that Crom Cruach achieved Heavenly Dragon class . And Vali was more less comparable to Albion in his prime in his DxD L while he's below Crom in terms of raw power and defence. Draig can fight on par with Crom in their fight due to his abilities Boost and Penetrate.
Vol 16:
While everyone is feeling pressured by the man clad in black, Ddraig speaks to me from within me.
[Of course he’s on a different level to all of you. He is someone that none of you can currently handle.]
……Ddraig, you know him?
[Yeah, I knew it the moment I saw him even though he has the form of a human. —The Crescent Circle Dragon, Crom Cruach. The Dragon that was said to be the strongest among all the Evil Dragons.]
—!?
……For real? So that is……one of the strongest Evil Dragons, Crom Cruach……!
I gasp. Since I fought the Evil Dragon Grendel, I can tell that the aura around that man is even more dangerous than that crazy Dragon……!
[Do not fight him at all costs. Even I thought you could fight the majority of enemies since you are still growing……but he’s a different story.]
Vol 20: Crom's dragon form
As I flew in the air — I was almost stopped by Crom Cruach’s sudden move. No, I was certainly distracted in that moment. …Like this, it was the third time since Tannin-ossan and Fafnir’s Outrage. ……Damn it, damn it! I wholeheartedly regretted trying to pursue Crom Cruach at home. Although my parents and Ophis had been exposed to danger, I…I really was too stupid!
[That guy is a dragon that has been watching the human world for a long time.]
As I was reflecting, Ddraig said that to me.
[—Partner, you definitely can’t forget Crom Cruach’s appearance just now. That is the ultimate form of an Evil Dragon who has single-mindedly pursued power. —Well, what is borrowed will be returned.]
…Yes. Exactly! There are a lot of dragons who are worth learning from —. That’s why I definitely have to become the strongest and greatest dragon — to become the Sekiryuutei! At that time, I’ll definitely surpass Crom Cruach —.

Power is: Raw power (brute force) + Defence + Speed + Abilities (born with them or created, or magic you learn).
You treat abilities like diseases, Cao Cao has only abilities and his talent, his raw power and defence are crap yet he can fight a Maou Class with insane raw power and defence, Sairaorg rings a bell?
Also from vol 12, power can be calculated, for example, Crom could be Raw power 10 Defence 10 Speed 8 Abilities 1 total 29, Ddraig can be Raw power 8 Defence 8 Speed 8 Abilities 5 total 29; overall equal, one is better in a field than other, but in the end, both have the same chances of winning, the one that makes one or more mistakes firs loses.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-09, 11:09
Vol 16:

Vol 20: Crom's dragon form

Power is: Raw power (brute force) + Defence + Speed + Abilities (born with them or created, or magic you learn).
You treat abilities like diseases, Cao Cao has only abilities and his talent, his raw power and defence are crap yet he can fight a Maou Class with insane raw power and defence, Sairaorg rings a bell?
Also from vol 12, power can be calculated, for example, Crom could be Raw power 10 Defence 10 Speed 8 Abilities 1 total 29, Ddraig can be Raw power 8 Defence 8 Speed 8 Abilities 5 total 29; overall equal, one is better in a field than other, but in the end, both have the same chances of winning, the one that makes one or more mistakes firs loses.

Vol16, issei/Vali vs Crom.

[But, partner. He simply has damage to that degree with no enhancement at all. Despite the fact that you are in your crimson armour form. He sneaked into the Human world and the Underworld even after Albion and I were sealed into the Sacred Gears to continue training himself. To be honest, I can’t actually calculate how strong he is now. He hasn’t revived after being destroyed, and continued to live and train himself in this era. There is a chance that he has reached the Heavenly Dragon class. ……So it isn’t wise to battle him now.]

May be truth, except that Crom with an arm broken was superior than Ddraig? The so special Ddraig’s abilities could not work so good to cover the difference.

Boost was not enough to cover the difference in the normal attacks as punches or with the flames. Only with Penetrate the aura’s attacks could damage him but Crom started to avoid those infused with It. Literally Penetrate was the secret cart to have an advantage to compete with Crom, even being inferior. Only the fight hand to hand was the solution to compete equally.

dnb
2020-09-09, 11:28
Crom had his wrist broken; Crom's raw power is above, so yes, Ddraig is at a disadvantage, he almost lost his conscience and had one arm broken because he made mistakes; the mistake is engaging in a hand to hand combat with someone more powerful, but Crom had to avoid Ddraig because if he missed he could have been K.O. by Ddraig, penetrate made Ddraig capable of giving Crom internal damage and end the match; like I said the one making the mistake first would lose.
Issei made the mistake of letting Kiba attack him and he got stabbed, if Kiba was a bit stronger he could have cut of Issei arm, and that was a God class/HD vs a near Maou Class or above Ultimate Class fight, though.

godz
2020-09-09, 12:55
the difference is that mahabali weapons do their thing just whit any slash, crom on the other hand not only did not do something comparable, he did not even do it as casually as you implied. its like comparing xenovia swinging durandal to issei crimson blaster, one requires charging, the other doesn't and we saw what happened when mahabali did an actual charged attack. and vali laughing means nothing, vali was laughing because of his battle maniac boner, not because he found crom attack laughable, he was excited that crom was stronger than he expected. also albion outright states that in destructive power crom was above him

not really, mahabali was seen fighting on-screen a total of one time, that single battle is the only one where we can take reference of how strong he is. the thing whit erebus on the other hand was completely inconsistent whit issei current power-level, we had seen issei in a much harder fight (against vidar) and he was not nearly as tired as after erebus, he was about to "pass out" after fighting erebus despite the fight being shorter than the one against vidar and receiving even less damage from a weaker god, and even then he somehow not only does not lose his DxD form but he proceeds to use an even more stamina-intensive form against tartarus. so either issei suddenly went down a few levels or he was exaggerating his tiredness.

put shorter, mahabali fought a single time on-screen so it cannot be "inconsistent" when there is nothing else to compare to, while erebus fight can be directly compared to something else and one can easily see the inconsistency.

and yes ishibumi might give indra the nerf hammer like did whit baalberith but that is besides the point, until it happens it cant be counted. and even then it depends on how it happens since we saw baalberith vs sairaorg and even if it did happen it does not make it any less nonsensical.


I can agree with several points, but I reaffirm that the level they give Mahabali above guys like Viddar BxB, Hades, Crom Cruach, Ddraig, Albion and Crom Cruach is over the top for a guy who only had two fights, one where he was one punching bag from baalberith and the other where he had a shonen moment against indra.

Mainly @saurerking said what I wanted to write...However even if he was getting tired, from the consume of aura and damages received, but how is relevant?

Mahabali was realising instantly an infinity blaster from each sword without charge, that is how you fire a normal attack as for issei with Dragon shots ecc. As for AxA who its casual attacks are more infinity blaster or for you issei was putting all his power?
As for even him was extremely tired at the end.

Crom Cruach covered his fist of an incredible quantity of energy compressed, if he can make casual attacks of such level, with 2 punches would have defeated Vali or would have described.

Again with this story of Vali? I want the citation of Issei who said Vali’s attacks were powerful as infinity blaster, as for the fact that if it was true Nezha would have been injured seriously and would have destroyed the touki’s rings.
Furthermore even the quantity of damage was different.

Even AxA or Shooting star or Balor Rias, Vasco can destroy the field, so their power is equal? This motivation is not valid.

The problem is Mahabali fought only one time, while with Erebus there are other fights of Issei P DxD to say was incoherent, when he fought Vidar without those damages. Otherwise now I will say Sairaorg is a super devil stronger than Issei and Vali with the potential to defeat Ophis having defeated Balberith.



You cannot take sairaorg as an example when if you read shin dxd 4, and where the narration was clear that baalberith was much weaker for imitating the oppai dragon ... very different than in shin dxd 3 nothing establishes that issei is weakened (Unless that Yasaka left him so hot that he couldn't fight well), and in the context it is seen that Erebus hurt Issei in 1 vs 1 and that Tartarus endured the attack of AxA that had this power, but I don't see either of them being placed in the top 10 which is very different from what happens with mahabali ... favoritism?

All muzzles were facing Tartarus. And then, a powerful voice echoed.

[Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

[Revelation All-Range Blaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

From muzzles all over the body, countless shots of extreme auras were fired towards Tartarus!

"—Like I’ll let you.”

Defensive magic circles formed at the end of Tartarus's arms. Those magic circles got rained by Ryuuteimaru's aura shot — Revelation Blaster! Tartarus's magic circles were pierced as if they were made out of paper and the bombardment fired by Ryuuteimaru hit almost the entirety of the eyeball-filled sphere! Overflowing bombardment hit the ground, and at that moment — it created a huge explosion that easily changed the terrain! No, it didn't end with just that, it made the space itself tremble! Tartarus, who took the Revelation Blaster head-on, seemed to have taken a huge amount of damage, with almost half of the sphere being blown away! —! N-No, wait a minute! Wait a second! Didn’t the attack just now almost become a decisive blow!? It was still just the first shot, you know!? I was greatly surprised by this result! ...Wh-What the hell! Just how many ∞ Blasters combined was that!? And yet, I was limiting the output! Yasaka-san saw the result of my shots and said.

[Ku...! What quantity! With this much power, the pseudo-space will not last!]

I-Indeed! At this rate, it looked like this space would reach its limit at once due to Ryuuteimaru's attacks! Tartarus, who had half its body blown up, regenerated his body and stared at me. His voice changed completely and the tone was — from someone cornered.

[...You can shoot so many shots and with such force...!? Demonic dragon who manifested the power of infinity… and the dreams... no, who was endowed with the power of Ophis and Great Red...!!]

His fighting spirit had not been shaken, huh! So, I had no choice but to weaken those shots a little more, and then use them again!

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-09, 14:17
I can agree with several points, but I reaffirm that the level they give Mahabali above guys like Viddar BxB, Hades, Crom Cruach, Ddraig, Albion and Crom Cruach is over the top for a guy who only had two fights, one where he was one punching bag from baalberith and the other where he had a shonen moment against indra.



You cannot take sairaorg as an example when if you read shin dxd 4, and where the narration was clear that baalberith was much weaker for imitating the oppai dragon ... very different than in shin dxd 3 nothing establishes that issei is weakened (Unless that Yasaka left him so hot that he couldn't fight well), and in the context it is seen that Erebus hurt Issei in 1 vs 1 and that Tartarus endured the attack of AxA that had this power, but I don't see either of them being placed in the top 10 which is very different from what happens with mahabali ... favoritism?

All muzzles were facing Tartarus. And then, a powerful voice echoed.

[Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer! Answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

[Revelation All-Range Blaster!!!!!!!!!!!!!]

From muzzles all over the body, countless shots of extreme auras were fired towards Tartarus!

"—Like I’ll let you.”

Defensive magic circles formed at the end of Tartarus's arms. Those magic circles got rained by Ryuuteimaru's aura shot — Revelation Blaster! Tartarus's magic circles were pierced as if they were made out of paper and the bombardment fired by Ryuuteimaru hit almost the entirety of the eyeball-filled sphere! Overflowing bombardment hit the ground, and at that moment — it created a huge explosion that easily changed the terrain! No, it didn't end with just that, it made the space itself tremble! Tartarus, who took the Revelation Blaster head-on, seemed to have taken a huge amount of damage, with almost half of the sphere being blown away! —! N-No, wait a minute! Wait a second! DidnÂ’t the attack just now almost become a decisive blow!? It was still just the first shot, you know!? I was greatly surprised by this result! ...Wh-What the hell! Just how many ∞ Blasters combined was that!? And yet, I was limiting the output! Yasaka-san saw the result of my shots and said.

[Ku...! What quantity! With this much power, the pseudo-space will not last!]

I-Indeed! At this rate, it looked like this space would reach its limit at once due to Ryuuteimaru's attacks! Tartarus, who had half its body blown up, regenerated his body and stared at me. His voice changed completely and the tone was — from someone cornered.

[...You can shoot so many shots and with such force...!? Demonic dragon who manifested the power of infinityÂ… and the dreams... no, who was endowed with the power of Ophis and Great Red...!!]

His fighting spirit had not been shaken, huh! So, I had no choice but to weaken those shots a little more, and then use them again!

So I can not even take in exemple Belial? Or Verrine who losted for the “resistance” with some ultimate-devil class and an over-maou class?

Only because we establish something not written in the story is not true? So True-Longinus is the strongest Longinus as everyone said? Even when it could not kill Issei CxC when the story said Cao Cao was a danger for maou and gods and could kill god-class beings weak to the Spear.

So issei does not have problems of self-esteem?


Erebus is described as a fucking God not good to fight, who is inferior to Battle Gods as heavenly Kings who are weaker to Chief Gods and the monster of top 10. Typhon was described that a God not fighters is not even a match for him and would be defeated easily.

The difference among Top 10 and those under is Gigant, Apollon has been blowed away from Ddraig and could not do nothing while he was destroying Typhon.

There are features to say is incoherent at your contrary. We have Issei DxD G vs Apophis, he started the match in CxC receiving big damages from primordial Water, then he weared DxD G that since the first second give to his body an incredible pain. He was even SCREAMING for the pain, something NEVER SEEN because primordial water can damage seriously gods.

“It felt as though my body would be torn apart if I moved even just a little bit”. Then, he fought Apophis receiving damages, firing Dragon shoots and infinity blaster/Longinus Smasher. At the end of the fight he was okay, so much he could keep to fight Trihexa.

Vidar: “ And then, the final stage of the fight between Vidar-san and I began! As I punched him, Vidar-san also kicked me repeatedly! My punch hit Vidar-san head’s, and Vidar-san’s kick pierced my stomach! Because each attack was filled with an unbelievable mass of aura, our armours cracked, and the impacts even reached our bodies, causing us to throw up blood from our mouths. As I was punching him, I said.

We continued the intense exchange of punches and kicks from there and took distance from each other. The violent fight pushed the floating island past its limit as the small foothold that was left got destroyed. Vidar-san and I breathed hard. I mean, we dropped to our knees and rested. The armour could be repaired many times, but our bodies inside received so much damage that we were completely worn out. I couldn’t tell where the injuries were as I felt extreme pain throughout my whole body. Vidar-san stood up and focused his aura on his feet.“

This received an infinity blaster, firing infinity/Longinus and at the end was all okay.


With a God not fighter, that technically should not even be able to see his movements or contrast his attacks, for some attack and infinity blaster with some damages was felling more tired than with Apophis/vidar, when in those matches he received more damages using more demoniac power. As for the fact he had to charge the cannons when his casual attack are enough to defeat him, as for the fact he does not need to use them against Balor Rias or Angra who in aura was equal to Hades.

Ah, but itÂ’s not a problem after 5 seconds use AxA who consume so much energy.

What showed Tartarus to be top 10? He could keep more hits because has the regeneration that is not enough to put you in top 10. As for the fact he needed to take control of the artificial field to defeat them Longinus User.

Mahabali on the other hand can fire more hits at the level of infinity blaster as casual attack, while Issei only two who is his strongest attack with Longinus smasher, while not even Vali showed that power.

How is relevant what happened with Balberith? In that moment was not nerfed and he was described to have the potential to fight alone a Dragon God. Furthermore Mahabali losted because he could not read Balberith’s movements that were too much unpredictables.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-09, 14:26
Crom had his wrist broken; Crom's raw power is above, so yes, Ddraig is at a disadvantage, he almost lost his conscience and had one arm broken because he made mistakes; the mistake is engaging in a hand to hand combat with someone more powerful, but Crom had to avoid Ddraig because if he missed he could have been K.O. by Ddraig, penetrate made Ddraig capable of giving Crom internal damage and end the match; like I said the one making the mistake first would lose.
Issei made the mistake of letting Kiba attack him and he got stabbed, if Kiba was a bit stronger he could have cut of Issei arm, and that was a God class/HD vs a near Maou Class or above Ultimate Class fight, though.

Engagin Crom in a fight hand to hand was the only solution, the flames of Ddraig were inferior and only with penetrate could compete with those of Crom, but he noticed the use. From distance? The normal’s attack could not damage him.

Certainly Penetrate was the only big problem, but at that point Crom could notice when Ddraig used it, so he would have lose probably if Crom can understand if penetrate is used in the punches. In another fight surely Crom would win.

Kiba could not Cut Isse’s armour, he could not destroy DxD’s armour, only to cut a Sairaorg’s arm when both were high-class he needed Xenivia. Furthermore all the fight has been incoherent that Issei could not see Kiba for the speed, when previously a lot of characters even if inferior a lot of than their opponent can see their movements, this when the gap of speed is not so big. As for the fact Logically speaking Issei would have blitzed easily Kiba without boost being only faster than CxC.

godz
2020-09-09, 15:23
So I can not even take in exemple Belial? Or Verrine who losted for the “resistance” with some ultimate-devil class and an over-maou class?

Only because we establish something not written in the story is not true? So True-Longinus is the strongest Longinus as everyone said? Even when it could not kill Issei CxC when the story said Cao Cao was a danger for maou and gods and could kill god-class beings weak to the Spear.

So issei does not have problems of self-esteem?


Erebus is described as a fucking God not good to fight, who is inferior to Battle Gods as heavenly Kings who are weaker to Chief Gods and the monster of top 10. Typhon was described that a God not fighters is not even a match for him and would be defeated easily.

The difference among Top 10 and those under is Gigant, Apollon has been blowed away from Ddraig and could not do nothing while he was destroying Typhon.

There are features to say is incoherent at your contrary. We have Issei DxD G vs Apophis, he started the match in CxC receiving big damages from primordial Water, then he weared DxD G that since the first second give to his body an incredible pain. He was even SCREAMING for the pain, something NEVER SEEN because primordial water can damage seriously gods.

“It felt as though my body would be torn apart if I moved even just a little bit”. Then, he fought Apophis receiving damages, firing Dragon shoots and infinity blaster/Longinus Smasher. At the end of the fight he was okay, so much he could keep to fight Trihexa.

Vidar: “ And then, the final stage of the fight between Vidar-san and I began! As I punched him, Vidar-san also kicked me repeatedly! My punch hit Vidar-san head’s, and Vidar-san’s kick pierced my stomach! Because each attack was filled with an unbelievable mass of aura, our armours cracked, and the impacts even reached our bodies, causing us to throw up blood from our mouths. As I was punching him, I said.

We continued the intense exchange of punches and kicks from there and took distance from each other. The violent fight pushed the floating island past its limit as the small foothold that was left got destroyed. Vidar-san and I breathed hard. I mean, we dropped to our knees and rested. The armour could be repaired many times, but our bodies inside received so much damage that we were completely worn out. I couldn’t tell where the injuries were as I felt extreme pain throughout my whole body. Vidar-san stood up and focused his aura on his feet.“

This received an infinity blaster, firing infinity/Longinus and at the end was all okay.


With a God not fighter, that technically should not even be able to see his movements or contrast his attacks, for some attack and infinity blaster with some damages was felling more tired than with Apophis/vidar, when in those matches he received more damages using more demoniac power. As for the fact he had to charge the cannons when his casual attack are enough to defeat him, as for the fact he does not need to use them against Balor Rias or Angra who in aura was equal to Hades.

Ah, but itÂ’s not a problem after 5 seconds use AxA who consume so much energy.

What showed Tartarus to be top 10? He could keep more hits because has the regeneration that is not enough to put you in top 10. As for the fact he needed to take control of the artificial field to defeat them Longinus User.

Mahabali on the other hand can fire more hits at the level of infinity blaster as casual attack, while Issei only two who is his strongest attack with Longinus smasher, while not even Vali showed that power.

How is relevant what happened with Balberith? In that moment was not nerfed and he was described to have the potential to fight alone a Dragon God. Furthermore Mahabali losted because he could not read Balberith’s movements that were too much unpredictables.

Make up your mind man, when you talk about mahabali you give the infiniti blaster a lot of level which obviously was not accidental because it was a mahabali fight with all its power and powerful Hindu weapons against Indra, but when tartarus endured a stronger attack and continued fighting you did not you consider it ... You see the favoritism towards mahabali And the regeneration is a good hack not for nothing trihexa is so dangerous.

And a fact, angra did not have an aura similar to hades, issei himself says that the aura of hades was stronger.

And in the duel of the gods all the gods present in the combat were displaying a similar power that made issei nervous and ddraig had to remind him of his exploits.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-09, 19:01
Make up your mind man, when you talk about mahabali you give the infiniti blaster a lot of level which obviously was not accidental because it was a mahabali fight with all its power and powerful Hindu weapons against Indra, but when tartarus endured a stronger attack and continued fighting you did not you consider it ... You see the favoritism towards mahabali And the regeneration is a good hack not for nothing trihexa is so dangerous.

And a fact, angra did not have an aura similar to hades, issei himself says that the aura of hades was stronger.

And in the duel of the gods all the gods present in the combat were displaying a similar power that made issei nervous and ddraig had to remind him of his exploits.

Me? The only who denies the affirmations of two user is you. Mahabali was releasing from each sword an attack equal to infinity Blaster instantly, not loading the aura as Issei or Crom do. If itÂ’s not a casual attack, what is it?

Only one time Issei said Mahabali charged a vast amount of aura into the swords, just before cut IndraÂ’s arm.

However, even if for you are not casual attacks, it does not change he can fire more of them without problems, while Issei only two and lostes all his resistance and demoniac power. So who is stronger?

“He was releasing an aura that didn’t lose to Hades, but...if it was about true strength, Hades was above?”

They were equal in intensity, but in true strength Hades is above, itÂ’s different.

“ …Shit. Each of their attacks felt as strong as my Dragon Deification’s ace move, [Infinity Blaster]! Ddraig, who was inside me, said.

[Partner. The guys you’re watching stand at the top even among the mythologies. They’re the embodiment of the strongest. However, we have fought against Vidar with his Midgardsormr armor and the King of Monsters Typhon, and we won against them. We’ve also conquered the Evil Dragon Apophis and the Primordial God Nyx. Have a little faith.]”

For which reason Issei should be nervous for the Asura Gods or Heavenly Kings who are not even top 10 or chief god level?
Issei was nervous only because each Mahabali and IndraÂ’s attack was powerful as his infinity blaster.
Or now for you even normal battle Gods can fire more infinity blaster?

Except that what of amazing Did Tartarus? To defeat the Longinus user had to wait an isseiÂ’s tired and make a surprise attack to take the control of the dimension field. He could tank more attacks because could regenerate him-self.

There is a difference among Trihexa and Tartarus, Trihexa has the power to destroy the earth and assault completely alone whole mythologies and kill a lot of God-class beings.

Otherwise for this logic even a single core of Trihexa is stronger than Sirzechs and Issei for the regeneration or Tartarus is even better than Hades.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-10, 06:50
Kiba should be able to fight on par with a Satan class opponent or maybe possibly defeat it with his current set of repertoire and especially the armor he equip in his legs to increased his speed to an outrageous level. Well if not for the fact that Issei took advantage of the fact that he knows Kiba's habit as they've been training together some time ago their fight will get prolong and Kiba will abused Issei due to his speed even though he cannot defeat him due to his swords not completely working against Pseudo Dragon Deification armor(Kiba in their fight can scratch his Pseudo Dragon Deification armor and sent some pain and damage to Issei's body even it's not severe and not enough to defeat him due to it lacking in power and the trait of the sword not completely working against Issei) .

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-10, 08:41
Kiba should be able to fight on par with a Satan class opponent or maybe possibly defeat it with his current set of repertoire and especially the armor he equip in his legs to increased his speed to an outrageous level. Well if not for the fact that Issei took advantage of the fact that he knows Kiba's habit as they've been training together some time ago their fight will get prolong and Kiba will abused Issei due to his speed even though he cannot defeat him due to his swords not completely working against Pseudo Dragon Deification armor(Kiba in their fight can scratch his Pseudo Dragon Deification armor and sent some pain and damage to Issei's body even it's not severe and not enough to defeat him due to it lacking in power and the trait of the sword not completely working against Issei) .

To be honest, if DxD was coherent, in shin 3 during the first meet with Gressil and the other one, Kiba being faster than a maou-class and for the plot could compete with P DxD, would have killed in one second Sonneillon and even Gressil, especially with booster.

It was not necessary enter in P DxD and fight seriously for Issei, it was enough say:"Kiba, use the boosters and kill them without show mercy".

All in just some seconds.

syzorst
2020-09-10, 15:49
Engagin Crom in a fight hand to hand was the only solution, the flames of Ddraig were inferior and only with penetrate could compete with those of Crom, but he noticed the use. From distance? The normal’s attack could not damage him.

Certainly Penetrate was the only big problem, but at that point Crom could notice when Ddraig used it, so he would have lose probably if Crom can understand if penetrate is used in the punches. In another fight surely Crom would win.

Kiba could not Cut Isse’s armour, he could not destroy DxD’s armour, only to cut a Sairaorg’s arm when both were high-class he needed Xenivia. Furthermore all the fight has been incoherent that Issei could not see Kiba for the speed, when previously a lot of characters even if inferior a lot of than their opponent can see their movements, this when the gap of speed is not so big. As for the fact Logically speaking Issei would have blitzed easily Kiba without boost being only faster than CxC.

I wouldn't say Vali was doing better against Crom than Ddraig was. Sure Vali was faster but his speed was irrelevant due to Crom predicting his moves with intuition. [Half-Dimension] didn't do much since Crom could break through it. For most of the fight, Vali was fighting defensively against Crom. Ddraig fought Crom head on despite his disadvantage in raw power. Penetrate was really all he needed to give Crom significant damage. By the time the fight was over "both of them" had broken bones and many injuries. Yeah, Crom had an damaged arm but Ddraig didn't use his Blazing Scorching of Inferno Flames.

saucerKing
2020-09-10, 22:18
To be honest, if DxD was coherent, in shin 3 during the first meet with Gressil and the other one, Kiba being faster than a maou-class and for the plot could compete with P DxD, would have killed in one second Sonneillon and even Gressil, especially with booster.

It was not necessary enter in P DxD and fight seriously for Issei, it was enough say:"Kiba, use the boosters and kill them without show mercy".

All in just some seconds.
on that one fight i can agree plot armor for sonellion and gressil was neccesary, other wise the battle would look like this

"then kiba moved faster than they could perceive and decapitated them in an instant"

and then whit erebus it would be

"then kiba moved whit his thrusters faster than anyone could see and killed everyone, the end"

seriously, whit no plot armor kiba and vali are fucking OP for that point in the story, they move faster than all the antagonist can even see (issei and crom hat to outright predict their moves to even land a hit) and slice their throats, if kiba can do minor scratches to issei armor he can do the same to the flesh of a god and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate their flesh, just make them bleed to death.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-10, 23:49
I wouldn't say Vali was doing better against Crom than Ddraig was. Sure Vali was faster but his speed was irrelevant due to Crom predicting his moves with intuition. [Half-Dimension] didn't do much since Crom could break through it. For most of the fight, Vali was fighting defensively against Crom. Ddraig fought Crom head on despite his disadvantage in raw power. Penetrate was really all he needed to give Crom significant damage. By the time the fight was over "both of them" had broken bones and many injuries. Yeah, Crom had an damaged arm but Ddraig didn't use his Blazing Scorching of Inferno Flames.

Crom Cruach's battle which is so simple and straightforward is very to get taken advantage of. But well Crom Cruach compensated that with his terrifying battle intuition which he culminate through his years of fighting and training.


Well Blazing Inferno of Scorching Flames is a very dangerous move as it's even effective against God class beings with Ophis, Great Red and Samael were the only ones in the DxD world who will not be affected by it that's why it's not used by Draig even Issei didn't used it after the first time he used it in volume 21 as its very destructive and powerful .

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-11, 13:13
on that one fight i can agree plot armor for sonellion and gressil was neccesary, other wise the battle would look like this

"then kiba moved faster than they could perceive and decapitated them in an instant"

and then whit erebus it would be

"then kiba moved whit his thrusters faster than anyone could see and killed everyone, the end"

seriously, whit no plot armor kiba and vali are fucking OP for that point in the story, they move faster than all the antagonist can even see (issei and crom hat to outright predict their moves to even land a hit) and slice their throats, if kiba can do minor scratches to issei armor he can do the same to the flesh of a god and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate their flesh, just make them bleed to death.

Issei only expelling Ascalon from the gauntlet could stab Erebus, moving his arm toward Erebus, so it’s logic Kiba can damage him.

About the booster, if you gived them to Kiba only as a power up to fight Issei that was totally incoherent, not leaving him to use them another time, It seems only one of the biggest assupull of ever only to giving problems as always to Issei.

However logically speaking even P DxD would have blitzed Erebus, being a big difference among those two in everything.

I wouldn't say Vali was doing better against Crom than Ddraig was. Sure Vali was faster but his speed was irrelevant due to Crom predicting his moves with intuition. [Half-Dimension] didn't do much since Crom could break through it. For most of the fight, Vali was fighting defensively against Crom. Ddraig fought Crom head on despite his disadvantage in raw power. Penetrate was really all he needed to give Crom significant damage. By the time the fight was over "both of them" had broken bones and many injuries. Yeah, Crom had an damaged arm but Ddraig didn't use his Blazing Scorching of Inferno Flames.

The velocity was irrelevant only if Vali would have blitzed Crom behind him, things that he avoided to do after the punch, even because Vali wanted to stay far from Crom because the fight hand to hand is Crom’s speciality, while for Vali are aura’s attacks.

But the aura’s attacks? I remember you Crom could not seen them, furthermore he could only take them continuing to advance. Wyverns could not block Crom, but he was lucky Vali did not even use in that moment or during all the fight Longinus Smasher as with Hades.
If Vali would have fought as with Nezha, staying far from him, firing aura’s attacks with wyverns from every angle Crom would have lose.

Vali was fighting defensively? Based on what? After Vali used DxD L, Crom hit him only two time, with the first because Vali thought could blitz Crom, the second because was surprised from Crom’s resistance, even though the attack received, while Vali hit Crom three times with aura’s attacks.
If I have to be honest, for Vali was necessary only fly continually far from Crom as possible, firing aura’s attacks, thing possible because Crom is slower than him.

But Ddraig could damage Crom with aura’s attacks only with Penetrate, Vali no, his flames could compete only with Penetrate. Ddraig was loosing his knowledge after Crom’s attack toward the stomach.
Crom had since the beginning a broken arm, Ddraig no. Yes, during the final fight both were damaged, but was only a brawl, with the only possibility to damage Crom.

After the end Crom was avoiding Penetrate’s attacks, now I do not know if he can avoid even the punches, but if Crom and Ddraig would have another match, Ddraig would lose badly not having more advantages.

While Vali not even used Satan Lucifer smasher, the wyverns to fire aura’s attacks as Nezha or tryed to fight as far as possible from Crom.
For the fact of Ddraig’s flames, for this Logic Vali did not use Reduce.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-11, 20:36
Kiba's most fights were just short one or team fights that's why there's no exact estimate of Kiba's combat strength.I wish Ishi will put him on a solo fight against an powerful Evie.
I'm sure Kiba can already take on and possibly defeat Satan class opponents like Euclid,Kokabiel and Barakiel but well that's just my own thought though.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-11, 20:50
Kiba's most fights were just short one or team fights that's why there's no exact estimate of Kiba's combat strength.I wish Ishi will put him on a solo fight against an powerful Evie.
I'm sure Kiba can already take on and possibly defeat Satan class opponents like Euclid,Kokabiel and Barakiel but well that's just my own thought though.

But it’s necessary what you said to estimate Kiba’s strength? No, there are already proves to indicate his power.

In raw power Kiba was overpassing Bikou who is ultimate-class devil, thanks to Vasco’s technique.
Speed? He is faster than a Maou-class and keep the pass with P DxD, Booster? Not even P DxD could see him (even if I consider a bull shit for me).

Knights? They have his same speed and ability, even Issei P DxD has been hit from them.

Kiba defeats easily every maou-class, as for the fact Euclide and Kokabiel where not maou-class, while Barakiel has been defeated easily from issei.

B214
2020-09-11, 22:58
But it’s necessary what you said to estimate Kiba’s strength? No, there are already proves to indicate his power.

In raw power Kiba was overpassing Bikou who is ultimate-class devil, thanks to Vasco’s technique.
Speed? He is faster than a Maou-class and keep the pass with P DxD, Booster? Not even P DxD could see him (even if I consider a bull shit for me).

Knights? They have his same speed and ability, even Issei P DxD has been hit from them.

Kiba defeats easily every maou-class, as for the fact Euclide and Kokabiel where not maou-class, while Barakiel has been defeated easily from issei.

I don't consider Kiba being too fast for Ise as a bullshit honestly. That's like saying Rossweisse being better than Ise in magic is bullshit or Asia being able to heal better than Ise is bullshit. They each have their specialty, to me there's nothing wrong with Kiba's speed being better than Ise. After all Ise focuses more on power over technique.

Isn't this one of the main reason why people are displeased with the Ise-Dulio match. Dulio's skills were forsaken for a fist fight with Ise.

saucerKing
2020-09-11, 23:41
well kiba was always the speed guy, he was always faster than issei (at least until triaina) and he was stated to have ridiculous talent so for him who focused in speed as much as issei in power it makes sense he would be faster.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-12, 06:03
I don't consider Kiba being too fast for Ise as a bullshit honestly. That's like saying Rossweisse being better than Ise in magic is bullshit or Asia being able to heal better than Ise is bullshit. They each have their specialty, to me there's nothing wrong with Kiba's speed being better than Ise. After all Ise focuses more on power over technique.

Isn't this one of the main reason why people are displeased with the Ise-Dulio match. Dulio's skills were forsaken for a fist fight with Ise.

What?
Kiba is faster only than CxC, but Bikou that is ultimate class could face Kiba even if with difficulty for all the match, even if he is inferior than CxC.
But suddendly, during the match among Kiba and Issei P DxD, Kiba could keep up with the speed of P DxD, even if it is a lot of superior than his base speed, when for all the story, when there is a difference of power among Two in different classes, it is impossible see the opponent's moviments.
If Kiba was faster than CxC and equal to P DxD in base form would have defeat in one second Bikou.

For exemple, Issei CxC with Belial vol20 could not even see him, Cao Cao could avoid Sairaorg only with the instinct. But, with a big difference among Issei P DxD and Kiba base speed (superior only than CxC), this last could keep Issei's speed when should not be possible for the logic.
It’s like now Erebus can compete with Vali DxD L in speed or Apollon.

We know that already Vali Ejod moves so high at a god speed that his figure svanished, even Vasco can do the same. But Fenrir 80% that is superior than their, for the plot can move only at high speed, not even able to disappear when it should be able to do it, while even sairaorg btb can do the same. Indeed for the plot Balor Rias could see him. The same thing for issei vs Rias when he moves only at high speed, when technically should be God-speed, with Rias able to see him., even with the difference of power enormous, when previosly Issei could not see Kiba with the booster even if it was not a big difference in speed

So beautiful the coherence. Kiba with a big difference in base form with P DxD could see Issei, but Issei against Kiba’s booster with a difference smaller than before can not see him?
Hades only for the plot could see Vali’s attacks when Crom, a fighter hand to hand could not.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-12, 09:51
What?
Kiba is faster only than CxC, but Bikou that is ultimate class could face Kiba even if with difficulty for all the match, even if he is inferior than CxC.
But suddendly, during the match among Kiba and Issei P DxD, Kiba could keep up with the speed of P DxD, even if it is a lot of superior than his base speed, when for all the story, when there is a difference of power among Two in different classes, it is impossible see the opponent's moviments.
If Kiba was faster than CxC and equal to P DxD in base form would have defeat in one second Bikou.

For exemple, Issei CxC with Belial vol20 could not even see him, Cao Cao could avoid Sairaorg only with the instinct. But, with a big difference among Issei P DxD and Kiba base speed (superior only than CxC), this last could keep Issei's speed when should not be possible for the logic.
It’s like now Erebus can compete with Vali DxD L in speed or Apollon.

We know that already Vali Ejod moves so high at a god speed that his figure svanished, even Vasco can do the same. But Fenrir 80% that is superior than their, for the plot can move only at high speed, not even able to disappear when it should be able to do it, while even sairaorg btb can do the same. Indeed for the plot Balor Rias could see him. The same thing for issei vs Rias when he moves only at high speed, when technically should be God-speed, with Rias able to see him., even with the difference of power enormous, when previosly Issei could not see Kiba with the booster even if it was not a big difference in speed

So beautiful the coherence. Kiba with a big difference in base form with P DxD could see Issei, but Issei against Kiba’s booster with a difference smaller than before can not see him?
Hades only for the plot could see Vali’s attacks when Crom, a fighter hand to hand could not.

You're forgetting the fact that Kiba still didn't have the technique when he fought Bikou(the one he used in his fight against Issei) where he equipped booster to increase his speed to the point that Issei can't catch him up if not for Issei Kiba's habit (due to them training together).Correction Kiba's speed in his new technique was not only above CxC Kiba's speed with this technique was even faster than Issei in his Pseudo Dragon Deification and he can't even catch up to him. Kiba was also Las in the fight against Bikou as he just along with the flow at that time.

In Erebus case it's more similar to what Issei did to defeat Kiba. Erebus studies Issei's battle habits techniques and stuffs .

Power doesn't always equate speed . Best example of this is Crom versus Vali fight as Crom was strong overall than Vali but Vali is still faster than him. Different guys have their own different aspects that they specializes in. For Example Issei is leaning more towards power while Vali was leaning more on speed and technique.Another example was Kiba and Xenovia as Xenovia focuses more on Power while Kiba was leaning more towards speed and techniques. Issei is fast but it's mostly in direct speed while Kiba and maybe Vali that's not the case as they have control over their speed.

Kiba loses in Pseudo Dragon Deification in terms of overall strength but Kiba with his booster was faster Issei in Pseudo Dragon Deification. Kiba is a type of power that relies heavily on techniques and his god speed and is adept at gaining his opponent weakness he's kind of like Cao Cao in the that their base was low but their techniques and combat strength can let them fight someone stronger than them. Guys like them shouldn't be just be judged base on their raw power and base state but instead it should be based on their combat strength.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-12, 11:16
You're forgetting the fact that Kiba still didn't have the technique when he fought Bikou(the one he used in his fight against Issei) where he equipped booster to increase his speed to the point that Issei can't catch him up if not for Issei Kiba's habit (due to them training together).Correction Kiba's speed in his new technique was not only above CxC Kiba's speed with this technique was even faster than Issei in his Pseudo Dragon Deification and he can't even catch up to him. Kiba was also Las in the fight against Bikou as he just along with the flow at that time.

In Erebus case it's more similar to what Issei did to defeat Kiba. Erebus studies Issei's battle habits techniques and stuffs .

Power doesn't always equate speed . Best example of this is Crom versus Vali fight as Crom was strong overall than Vali but Vali is still faster than him. Different guys have their own different aspects that they specializes in. For Example Issei is leaning more towards power while Vali was leaning more on speed and technique.Another example was Kiba and Xenovia as Xenovia focuses more on Power while Kiba was leaning more towards speed and techniques. Issei is fast but it's mostly in direct speed while Kiba and maybe Vali that's not the case as they have control over their speed.

Kiba loses in Pseudo Dragon Deification in terms of overall strength but Kiba with his booster was faster Issei in Pseudo Dragon Deification. Kiba is a type of power that relies heavily on techniques and his god speed and is adept at gaining his opponent weakness he's kind of like Cao Cao in the that their base was low but their techniques and combat strength can let them fight someone stronger than them. Guys like them shouldn't be just be judged base on their raw power and base state but instead it should be based on their combat strength.

There is a reason if I was mentioning “Kiba’s base speed”, not booster. Read better what I’ve written.

Kiba’s base (without booster, more easy to understand) was described to be faster than CxC issei, but could not even eliminate Bikou and blitz him who is only ultimate-class.

During the match against Issei, Kiba’s base speed (higher than maou-class) could see Issei P DxD who his speed is far faster than him, with a big gap technically that should not be possible. If was coherent, issei would have blitzed Kiba base being only faster than CxC, but could compete with P DxD. If it was so fast, in one second would have eliminated Bikou.

Only when Kiba used Booster, his speed overpassed Issei P DxD and could even blitz them, when the difference between them were inferior before the beginning. But issei could not do it even if was faster than Kiba’s base at the beginning.

So if now issei P DxD studies Shiva’s technique and else can compete with Him, with his aura’s attacks? So if Apollon now study Vali’s movements in DxD L can see his attacks? Or if Ravel studies Issei CxC can compete with him? Issei P DxD is top 10 in every aspect: Attack, Defense, Speed ecc. from top 10 and god not fighter the difference is as big as the heaven and earth.
Only because I study you I would not be able to contrast your aura’s attacks, see your movements and else. Because I do not think the study increase your power.

I do not think if I study the fighting style of one of the strongest box fighter of the world, who is faster, higher and more heavy than me now I can compete with him, having less experience, physical power and else. I would not even be able to give him a punch, because he would defeat me with K.O in one second.

Again, normally if you are in certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but there are sometimes difference in the statistic with some abnormal Valor as Vali/Kiba with the speed. Then, is influenced by your type to fight, for exemple Rias not being a fighter hand to hand has a speed, reflexes and resistance smaller than Issei BxB who can blitz her.

But how this reply to everything? Fenrir 80% is not so far from the level of top 10, he is specialised in agility, velocity and else being a fighter hand to hand. Every his physical statistic is far above every his opponent.

Why Sairaorg (over maou-class) could go so fast to svanish his figure? Why Vali’s movements can not even be heared in EJOD, not doing noise? But Fenrir who is superior can not?
How this justifies a normal dragon-king could avoid his attacks and see him with the big gap? Even for Balor Rias?
The same thing for P DxD vs Balor Rias, she could match issei’s attack for Pod, but every other her static as speed, reflexes and else were far inferior than Issei.

Because I remember when issei fought against Belial, even without worthless could not even compete in speed and else. For the Gap.
But now fighters with a gap bigger than those two can compete and not even be blitzed as Issei against enemies a lot of more powerful.

B214
2020-09-12, 11:35
There is a reason if I was mentioning “Kiba’s base speed”, not booster. Read better what I’ve written.

Kiba’s base (without booster, more easy to understand) was described to be faster than CxC issei, but could not even eliminate Bikou and blitz him who is only ultimate-class.

During the match against Issei, Kiba’s base speed (higher than maou-class) could see Issei P DxD who his speed is far faster than him, with a big gap technically that should not be possible. If was coherent, issei would have blitzed Kiba base being only faster than CxC, but could compete with P DxD. If it was so fast, in one second would have eliminated Bikou.

Only when Kiba used Booster, his speed overpassed Issei P DxD and could even blitz them, when the difference between them were inferior before the beginning. But issei could not do it even if was faster than Kiba’s base at the beginning.

So if now issei P DxD studies Shiva’s technique and else can compete with Him, with his aura’s attacks? So if Apollon now study Vali’s movements in DxD L can see his attacks? Or if Ravel studies Issei CxC can compete with him? Issei P DxD is top 10 in every aspect: Attack, Defense, Speed ecc. from top 10 and god not fighter the difference is as big as the heaven and earth.
Only because I study you I would not be able to contrast your aura’s attacks, see your movements and else. Because I do not think the study increase your power.

I do not think if I study the fighting style of one of the strongest box fighter of the world, who is faster, higher and more heavy than me now I can compete with him, having less experience, physical power and else. I would not even be able to give him a punch, because he would defeat me with K.O in one second.

Again, normally if you are in certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but there are sometimes difference in the statistic with some abnormal Valor as Vali/Kiba with the speed. Then, is influenced by your type to fight, for exemple Rias not being a fighter hand to hand has a speed, reflexes and resistance smaller than Issei BxB who can blitz her.

But how this reply to everything? Fenrir 80% is not so far from the level of top 10, he is specialised in agility, velocity and else being a fighter hand to hand. Every his physical statistic is far above every his opponent.

Why Sairaorg (over maou-class) could go so fast to svanish his figure? Why Vali’s movements can not even be heared in EJOD, not doing noise? But Fenrir who is superior can not?
How this justifies a normal dragon-king could avoid his attacks and see him with the big gap? Even for Balor Rias?
The same thing for P DxD vs Balor Rias, she could match issei’s attack for Pod, but every other her static as speed, reflexes and else were far inferior than Issei.

Because I remember when issei fought against Belial, even without worthless could not even compete in speed and else. For the Gap.
But now fighters with a gap bigger than those two can compete and not even be blitzed as Issei against enemies a lot of more powerful.

You're acting as if Bikou is weak. He's been on Vali's side for a while now. Also if you want to use speed to say Kiba should be able to blitz Bikou, how come Ise couldn't beat Sun Wukong when they were training before. Ise is more powerful than Sun Wukong even without DxD at that time, Sun Wukong even said it himself. Being fast or powerful doesn't determine the results. Also please don't forget while not skill like Kuroka or Koneko, Bikou can use Senjutsu too to boost his physical strength and so on.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-12, 11:52
You're acting as if Bikou is weak. He's been on Vali's side for a while now. Also if you want to use speed to say Kiba should be able to blitz Bikou, how come Ise couldn't beat Sun Wukong when they were training before. Ise is more powerful than Sun Wukong even without DxD at that time, Sun Wukong even said it himself. Being fast or powerful doesn't determine the results. Also please don't forget while not skill like Kuroka or Koneko, Bikou can use Senjutsu too to boost his physical strength and so on.

Based on what? I said only he’s level is ultimate-class and Kiba is stronger than him both in raw power, velocity and abilities.. If Kiba that is faster than CxC (maou-class) and could compete with P DxD velocity, for which reason he would not be able to blitz Bikou?

Ah, i remember Kiba was having the best from the fight, both in speed, techniques and raw power (thanks to Vasco). It was not mentioned it, furthermore even if it was used, was not enough to compete in raw power and certainly against someone faster than a maou-class and equal to P DxD without booster.

Because are two different things? Sun wukon have centuries of experience and is a technique type as Cao Cao, being able to avoid easily both Arthur and Bikou’s attacks. The problem with him is be able to hit him. How is relevant with what I’ve said? Qualities that Bikou has not.

Because I was mentioning a big difference among two classes in everything. Why Yu-long, a normal dragon king could avoid Fenrir’s attacks at 80%? When the difference is immense in velocity, agility, reflexes, attack and defense. Or as for the other exemple.

So Shiva against DxD L having more destructive power does not determinate the result of his victory? Kiba being faster than Rias does not determinare the victory? I know raw power and velocity does not result always the victory, but I want a valid reason how Yu-long, inferior in everything could avoid Fenrir’s attacks, how Kiba’s base could compete with P DxD, even being a lot of slower being described to be faster only than CxC with a big gap. But later Kiba with booster could blitz issei, even if the gap was inferior than before.

But issei against Belial could not even move a single finger against him being weaker in everything.

saucerKing
2020-09-12, 17:11
What?
Kiba is faster only than CxC, but Bikou that is ultimate class could face Kiba even if with difficulty for all the match, even if he is inferior than CxC.
But suddendly, during the match among Kiba and Issei P DxD, Kiba could keep up with the speed of P DxD, even if it is a lot of superior than his base speed, when for all the story, when there is a difference of power among Two in different classes, it is impossible see the opponent's moviments.
If Kiba was faster than CxC and equal to P DxD in base form would have defeat in one second Bikou.

For exemple, Issei CxC with Belial vol20 could not even see him, Cao Cao could avoid Sairaorg only with the instinct. But, with a big difference among Issei P DxD and Kiba base speed (superior only than CxC), this last could keep Issei's speed when should not be possible for the logic.
It’s like now Erebus can compete with Vali DxD L in speed or Apollon.

We know that already Vali Ejod moves so high at a god speed that his figure svanished, even Vasco can do the same. But Fenrir 80% that is superior than their, for the plot can move only at high speed, not even able to disappear when it should be able to do it, while even sairaorg btb can do the same. Indeed for the plot Balor Rias could see him. The same thing for issei vs Rias when he moves only at high speed, when technically should be God-speed, with Rias able to see him., even with the difference of power enormous, when previosly Issei could not see Kiba with the booster even if it was not a big difference in speed

So beautiful the coherence. Kiba with a big difference in base form with P DxD could see Issei, but Issei against Kiba’s booster with a difference smaller than before can not see him?
Hades only for the plot could see Vali’s attacks when Crom, a fighter hand to hand could not.
you are assuming that bikou is still ultimate-class, remember that characters can get stronger off-screen so bikou getting stronger is not a surprise. also we dont know how fast bikou is so there is that.

there is a thing known as "specialization", just because you are stronger in power it does not mean you are superior in every way. is fenrir more powerful than EJOD? probably, but that does not mean he is as fast as vali, especially not when vali seems to have speed above his other parameters too

also power =/= reaction time, issei is an all rounder guy while kiba as an specialization on speed so him being faster than issei is not far fetched. you can be heavenly dragon class and still be slow as fuck or have god-speed but still be ultimate-class, a character can be three classes higher than another guy and still be slower. think of it like a videogame, issei is a lvl 90 tank whit standard speed while kiba is a lvl 20 assassin who dumps everything in speed.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-13, 08:22
you are assuming that bikou is still ultimate-class, remember that characters can get stronger off-screen so bikou getting stronger is not a surprise. also we dont know how fast bikou is so there is that.

there is a thing known as "specialization", just because you are stronger in power it does not mean you are superior in every way. is fenrir more powerful than EJOD? probably, but that does not mean he is as fast as vali, especially not when vali seems to have speed above his other parameters too

also power =/= reaction time, issei is an all rounder guy while kiba as an specialization on speed so him being faster than issei is not far fetched. you can be heavenly dragon class and still be slow as fuck or have god-speed but still be ultimate-class, a character can be three classes higher than another guy and still be slower. think of it like a videogame, issei is a lvl 90 tank whit standard speed while kiba is a lvl 20 assassin who dumps everything in speed.

It has not been mentioned to become maou-class or over, so is still ultimate-class as well, however it’s not relevant. Kiba’s speed was over maou-class and if could compete with P DxD, it would be easy blitz him.

Again, Fenrir speciality was the the physical strength in speed, agility and resistance being the only way to fight using the fans and clowns. Furthermore it is 80% in every statistic, not only raw power, but even speed.

Or you Sairaorg btb who is specialised in raw power is faster than a 80% fenfir? Or Yu-long has better reaction time to avoid his attacks, when is inferior in every statics.

Again, Issei CxC could not even move a single finger against Belial for the power gap, as for the fact he was way faster than him. But I do not think Belial is specialised in speed as Kiba, but only because is maou-class in every statistic. Now for which Reason Yu-long could avoid Fenrir attacks at 80%? Certainly the gap between them is far bigger than CxC vol20 vs Belial.

If you are as Issei or however a character specialised in fight hand to hand, but able to use even demoniac power/aura, every your statistic is of the class of which you belong.
Yu-long is ultimate-class in everything, Fenrir 80% is far above in everything than him.

But issei is not a tank with standard speed, Issei is heavenly dragon class in attack, defense, speed, otherwise would have not even been able to fight Vidar.
Except what you said it’s valid only for Vali and Kiba, they are the only abnormal in speed without count the class. In every other character if you have a class higher than another one, you are better in everything, but usually statics as Speed/physical strength depends from your way to fight.

God-speed is something that since the beginning is present, but there is a big difference among the god-speed of other character used later. There is difference among god-speed of Kiba of vol1/2 and 10 for example.

But Kiba’s speed is only higher than Issei P DxD in booster, without them the difference among them is gigant even in speed, but Issei could not blitz him, but when the difference was smaller, Kiba could blitz issei.

saucerKing
2020-09-13, 17:04
It has not been mentioned to become maou-class or over, so is still ultimate-class as well, however it’s not relevant. Kiba’s speed was over maou-class and if could compete with P DxD, it would be easy blitz him.

Again, Fenrir speciality was the the physical strength in speed, agility and resistance being the only way to fight using the fans and clowns. Furthermore it is 80% in every statistic, not only raw power, but even speed.

Or you Sairaorg btb who is specialised in raw power is faster than a 80% fenfir? Or Yu-long has better reaction time to avoid his attacks, when is inferior in every statics.

Again, Issei CxC could not even move a single finger against Belial for the power gap, as for the fact he was way faster than him. But I do not think Belial is specialised in speed as Kiba, but only because is maou-class in every statistic. Now for which Reason Yu-long could avoid Fenrir attacks at 80%? Certainly the gap between them is far bigger than CxC vol20 vs Belial.

If you are as Issei or however a character specialised in fight hand to hand, but able to use even demoniac power/aura, every your statistic is of the class of which you belong.
Yu-long is ultimate-class in everything, Fenrir 80% is far above in everything than him.

But issei is not a tank with standard speed, Issei is heavenly dragon class in attack, defense, speed, otherwise would have not even been able to fight Vidar.
Except what you said it’s valid only for Vali and Kiba, they are the only abnormal in speed without count the class. In every other character if you have a class higher than another one, you are better in everything, but usually statics as Speed/physical strength depends from your way to fight.

God-speed is something that since the beginning is present, but there is a big difference among the god-speed of other character used later. There is difference among god-speed of Kiba of vol1/2 and 10 for example.

But Kiba’s speed is only higher than Issei P DxD in booster, without them the difference among them is gigant even in speed, but Issei could not blitz him, but when the difference was smaller, Kiba could blitz issei.
he was never mentioned to be ultimate-class though? and no, by this point after all the fights bikou being ultimate-class would be nonsensical. especially considering how he was competing whit tanin that he himself said would be around maou-class, even if he was not serious neither was bikou.

when did we get a stat sheet of fenrir? we dont know if he is particularly fast compared to everything else in his stats or he lacks in speed. also fenrir literally charges forwards every time he tries to close the distance so rias and yu long dont even need to be faster, just to predict his trajectory and move away which should make it easier to avoid for someone who can teleport like rias or that is as flexible as yu long. also we never saw yu long fighting, you just assumed his speed way back then and now are saying it makes no sense because canon does not match your assumptions

stop using belial vs issei as reference, this is the champion of the rating games so he probably has an S in every category instead of being a jack of all trades.

you got it wrong, im not saying issei doesn't has heavenly-dragon class speed, im saying kiba is faster than that. yes issei is heavenly dragon in every regard aside of technique and his biggest trait is his endurance (hence him being a tank) but kiba who has a massive specialization in speed and technique can still be faster even if his raw power is overall weaker. to use videogame terms, issei is a lvl 90 guy who spent his stats evenly whit a bigger focus on endurance, kiba is a lvl 40 guy who dumped everything into technique and speed. overall issei stats are much bigger but kiba beats him in those two aspects

"god-speed" means jackshit at this point, issei was moving at "god-speed" back in kyoto, then god-speed was something above that, god-speed is just issei saying "that guy seems fucking fast to me". you cant use anything as reference but feats at this point, kiba being a certain speed in vol X does not mean he cant be faster in volume Y, characters get stronger over time, even if its not outright said in the most blatant way possible.

the difference clearly is not "gigantic" as you assume, if kiba could match P DxD that means he is now that fast, it might be giant jump in power from last time but its a fact.

frankly the problem here is that you assumed how fast a character is and then get angry when it did not match canon, characters get stronger as the story progresses, some can be much faster than their category suggests.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-13, 17:27
he was never mentioned to be ultimate-class though? and no, by this point after all the fights bikou being ultimate-class would be nonsensical. especially considering how he was competing whit tanin that he himself said would be around maou-class, even if he was not serious neither was bikou.

when did we get a stat sheet of fenrir? we dont know if he is particularly fast compared to everything else in his stats or he lacks in speed. also fenrir literally charges forwards every time he tries to close the distance so rias and yu long dont even need to be faster, just to predict his trajectory and move away which should make it easier to avoid for someone who can teleport like rias or that is as flexible as yu long. also we never saw yu long fighting, you just assumed his speed way back then and now are saying it makes no sense because canon does not match your assumptions

stop using belial vs issei as reference, this is the champion of the rating games so he probably has an S in every category instead of being a jack of all trades.

you got it wrong, im not saying issei doesn't has heavenly-dragon class speed, im saying kiba is faster than that. yes issei is heavenly dragon in every regard aside of technique and his biggest trait is his endurance (hence him being a tank) but kiba who has a massive specialization in speed and technique can still be faster even if his raw power is overall weaker. to use videogame terms, issei is a lvl 90 guy who spent his stats evenly whit a bigger focus on endurance, kiba is a lvl 40 guy who dumped everything into technique and speed. overall issei stats are much bigger but kiba beats him in those two aspects

"god-speed" means jackshit at this point, issei was moving at "god-speed" back in kyoto, then god-speed was something above that, god-speed is just issei saying "that guy seems fucking fast to me". you cant use anything as reference but feats at this point, kiba being a certain speed in vol X does not mean he cant be faster in volume Y, characters get stronger over time, even if its not outright said in the most blatant way possible.

the difference clearly is not "gigantic" as you assume, if kiba could match P DxD that means he is now that fast, it might be giant jump in power from last time but its a fact.

frankly the problem here is that you assumed how fast a character is and then get angry when it did not match canon, characters get stronger as the story progresses, some can be much faster than their category suggests.

His consume of pawns was only 5 like guys as Saji and Nakiri. So even Kuroka should not be more Ultimate-class after all the fights? Tannin only in pure power, maybe traduced in raw power is maou-class. Tannin was holding back, otherwise not only the hall party, but even Issei and co would have disappeared.

Do you need a stat sheet? ItÂ’s not necessary, Fenrir being a fighter-hand-to-hand is specialised in statics as Speed, Agility ecc. He was a top 10 in every parameter.

Just predict the trajectories? If was easy, for which reason Fenrir against tannin disappeared at god-speed, defeating him easily? No one seen his movements.
The way to charge is the same of Issei or Sairaorg, but Issei during the first meet was having problems with the speed, as for Sairaorg vs Kiba, Rossweisse and Xenovia.

To see someone so fast, first you should have the reflects to avoid his assault. The canon does not assume what I say?

If you are in a certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but it depends from your way to fight, because if you are a magician as Rias/Akeno, your psychical strength with things as Speed are inferior than a fighter hand-to-hand of the same level. But sometime this is not valid for guys as Vali/Kiba.

Only Because Belial is the champions, he has S in everything? But Fenrir 80% no? If Yu-long who is at the level of CxC could avoid Fenrir, Issei had to do the same with Belial.

IÂ’ve said that Kiba being specialised in speed can be so fast, but in baseÂ’s form is only faster than CxC, not equal to P DxD. ThatÂ’s means that his speed was not top 10, while Issei yes. Only with the booster he overpasses Issei. But if Kiba could blitz him with a little gap between them in speed. Issei had to do the same with Kiba no booster.

Certainly, in three volumes he makes a so big jump in baseÂ’s speed? But in a lot of months he canÂ’t?

Frankly you was the same that gave me right time ago.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-13, 17:46
It has not been mentioned to become maou-class or over, so is still ultimate-class as well, however it’s not relevant. Kiba’s speed was over maou-class and if could compete with P DxD, it would be easy blitz him.

Again, Fenrir speciality was the the physical strength in speed, agility and resistance being the only way to fight using the fans and clowns. Furthermore it is 80% in every statistic, not only raw power, but even speed.

Or you Sairaorg btb who is specialised in raw power is faster than a 80% fenfir? Or Yu-long has better reaction time to avoid his attacks, when is inferior in every statics.

Again, Issei CxC could not even move a single finger against Belial for the power gap, as for the fact he was way faster than him. But I do not think Belial is specialised in speed as Kiba, but only because is maou-class in every statistic. Now for which Reason Yu-long could avoid Fenrir attacks at 80%? Certainly the gap between them is far bigger than CxC vol20 vs Belial.

If you are as Issei or however a character specialised in fight hand to hand, but able to use even demoniac power/aura, every your statistic is of the class of which you belong.
Yu-long is ultimate-class in everything, Fenrir 80% is far above in everything than him.

But issei is not a tank with standard speed, Issei is heavenly dragon class in attack, defense, speed, otherwise would have not even been able to fight Vidar.
Except what you said it’s valid only for Vali and Kiba, they are the only abnormal in speed without count the class. In every other character if you have a class higher than another one, you are better in everything, but usually statics as Speed/physical strength depends from your way to fight.

God-speed is something that since the beginning is present, but there is a big difference among the god-speed of other character used later. There is difference among god-speed of Kiba of vol1/2 and 10 for example.

But Kiba’s speed is only higher than Issei P DxD in booster, without them the difference among them is gigant even in speed, but Issei could not blitz him, but when the difference was smaller, Kiba could blitz issei.

From the very beginning I think you are having a very big misunderstanding on where will you categorized Kiba and what you will use as reference to estimate his power level.
I think you're using the wrong reference to judge how powerful Kiba is as you're using power types as reference . You shouldn't use power types as a reference since Kiba is not that type of fighter since he is fighter who mainly focuses on speed and his techniques .Basically you should use guys like Arthur, Cao Cao as a reference since they are the guys who are more or less or at least similar to Kiba one way or another .In short guys like Kiba, Cao Cao and Arthur's power shouldn't be judged based on their raw power but instead their overall combat strength or their strength in combat.

saucerKing
2020-09-14, 06:28
His consume of pawns was only 5 like guys as Saji and Nakiri. So even Kuroka should not be more Ultimate-class after all the fights? Tannin only in pure power, maybe traduced in raw power is maou-class. Tannin was holding back, otherwise not only the hall party, but even Issei and co would have disappeared.

Do you need a stat sheet? ItÂ’s not necessary, Fenrir being a fighter-hand-to-hand is specialised in statics as Speed, Agility ecc. He was a top 10 in every parameter.

Just predict the trajectories? If was easy, for which reason Fenrir against tannin disappeared at god-speed, defeating him easily? No one seen his movements.
The way to charge is the same of Issei or Sairaorg, but Issei during the first meet was having problems with the speed, as for Sairaorg vs Kiba, Rossweisse and Xenovia.

To see someone so fast, first you should have the reflects to avoid his assault. The canon does not assume what I say?

If you are in a certain class, every your statistic is of that level, but it depends from your way to fight, because if you are a magician as Rias/Akeno, your psychical strength with things as Speed are inferior than a fighter hand-to-hand of the same level. But sometime this is not valid for guys as Vali/Kiba.

Only Because Belial is the champions, he has S in everything? But Fenrir 80% no? If Yu-long who is at the level of CxC could avoid Fenrir, Issei had to do the same with Belial.

IÂ’ve said that Kiba being specialised in speed can be so fast, but in baseÂ’s form is only faster than CxC, not equal to P DxD. ThatÂ’s means that his speed was not top 10, while Issei yes. Only with the booster he overpasses Issei. But if Kiba could blitz him with a little gap between them in speed. Issei had to do the same with Kiba no booster.

Certainly, in three volumes he makes a so big jump in baseÂ’s speed? But in a lot of months he canÂ’t?

Frankly you was the same that gave me right time ago.
the pawn consumed is inconsistent in this series and is always what the plot needs, look at strada who consumed only one knight but was rekting rias group even as an old man.

so was bikou? neither were really giving their all

because tannin is a jobber, he has lost practically every fight he has been. issei got problems back then because apparently he was not even ultimate-class back then, even sairaorg could blitz his shit and he was still slower than even kiba.

you are again assuming yu long cant do exactly that, cao cao who has much less experience could predict attacks from vali and azazel whit no problem via aura reading, yu long who was whit sun wukong (who also was shown doing this) on his youth probably knew the same trick too.

i did not say the opposite though? i said that issei is heavenly dragon-class in speed... but so is kiba in base, and whit boosters he is above that.

yu long is a dragon king whit hundreds of years of experience dodging a wolf who attacks on a instinctual way, issei is a guy who barely had 1 year of experience dodging someone superior to him in everything, whit much more experience and probably who is also a technique type that he has trouble whit. this is the same guy who could not land a hit on kiba back when he got BxB, he is not hard to deal whit as long as you are near his level (or in this case way above) and dont rush in like an idiot.

yes, emphasis on you said, not the story, the story shows him being top 10 speed in base. between his fight whit the vali team and his fight whit issei there were 2 volumes in-between, its not a stretch to think he got better.

its a basic shonen rule, characters are not allowed to get stronger than the story allows, think of all those shonen stories where the protagonist trained for 10 years before the story starts but once its on screen he gets 10x better results in a week. it makes no fucking sense, but neither did anything whit vali, or whit rias, or whit sairaorg, or rossweisse. plot force is not an alien concept to this series

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-15, 16:14
the pawn consumed is inconsistent in this series and is always what the plot needs, look at strada who consumed only one knight but was rekting rias group even as an old man.

so was bikou? neither were really giving their all

because tannin is a jobber, he has lost practically every fight he has been. issei got problems back then because apparently he was not even ultimate-class back then, even sairaorg could blitz his shit and he was still slower than even kiba.

you are again assuming yu long cant do exactly that, cao cao who has much less experience could predict attacks from vali and azazel whit no problem via aura reading, yu long who was whit sun wukong (who also was shown doing this) on his youth probably knew the same trick too.

i did not say the opposite though? i said that issei is heavenly dragon-class in speed... but so is kiba in base, and whit boosters he is above that.

yu long is a dragon king whit hundreds of years of experience dodging a wolf who attacks on a instinctual way, issei is a guy who barely had 1 year of experience dodging someone superior to him in everything, whit much more experience and probably who is also a technique type that he has trouble whit. this is the same guy who could not land a hit on kiba back when he got BxB, he is not hard to deal whit as long as you are near his level (or in this case way above) and dont rush in like an idiot.

yes, emphasis on you said, not the story, the story shows him being top 10 speed in base. between his fight whit the vali team and his fight whit issei there were 2 volumes in-between, its not a stretch to think he got better.

its a basic shonen rule, characters are not allowed to get stronger than the story allows, think of all those shonen stories where the protagonist trained for 10 years before the story starts but once its on screen he gets 10x better results in a week. it makes no fucking sense, but neither did anything whit vali, or whit rias, or whit sairaorg, or rossweisse. plot force is not an alien concept to this series

But Cao Cao could because it’s an extremely skilled technique type who could read the aura’s movements of Armour’s fighters. Yu-Long no. Even Fenrir is a wolf with centuries of experience and else.

The only moment Sairaorg could blitz Issei was vol9 where he was overshadowing Issei in everything having seals yet. After that in vol10 they were both equal. The story and other proves confirmed he was ultimate-class.

Okay, but if Kiba’s speed is actually Top 10 in base form, he would have killed in one second Sonneilon, with no one able to notice him.

Yeah, basically the plot armour is something very linked with DxD.

saucerKing
2020-09-15, 23:16
But Cao Cao could because it’s an extremely skilled technique type who could read the aura’s movements of Armour’s fighters. Yu-Long no. Even Fenrir is a wolf with centuries of experience and else.

The only moment Sairaorg could blitz Issei was vol9 where he was overshadowing Issei in everything having seals yet. After that in vol10 they were both equal. The story and other proves confirmed he was ultimate-class.

Okay, but if Kiba’s speed is actually Top 10 in base form, he would have killed in one second Sonneilon, with no one able to notice him.

Yeah, basically the plot armour is something very linked with DxD.
yu long was there whit sun wukong during his travels and sun wukong clearly knows that technique too, i dont think its a stretch to think yu long knows it too since he has been friends whit the guy who mastered it for quite some time. wasn't fenrir chained before DxD like in the myths to wait until ragnarok? and fenrir himself says he was becoming loki slave so i dont think its a stretch to think he was controlling him in some way.

yeah, kiba probably could of killed sonnelion back then, kiba probably could've killed all the artificial devils in a minute in the fight whit erebus. but he is not the protagonist, he cant do that kind of cool shit not to mention that the story would of be much more boring if he was allowed to show off. the whole volume would of been "and then kiba blitzed him too and decapitated him" over and over again, which frankly is not fun.

hell the whole fight in kyoto would've ended too if characters remembered that they can do AoE attacks or if issei actually used penetrate more often.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-15, 23:43
Yeah I agree and Kiba and the others are more or less handicapped in that fight since the barrier was just a sloppy one so Kiba and the others power output are more less restrained since there's a very big chance the barrier will break if they carelessly use their power and techniques so its understandable that Kiba can't kill Sonneilon back then in their fight even though he is capable of doing it.

Lucidrago
2020-09-16, 21:15
Yeah I agree and Kiba and the others are more or less handicapped in that fight since the barrier was just a sloppy one so Kiba and the others power output are more less restrained since there's a very big chance the barrier will break if they carelessly use their power and techniques so its understandable that Kiba can't kill Sonneilon back then in their fight even though he is capable of doing it.

While Kiba is strong he has shown no powerful attacks of his own like Extinguish Star, CrossxCrisis, or Crimson Blaster. Kiba or anyone else besides Issei, Rias, Akeno, or Xenovia being nerfed makes no sense at all. Unless Kiba had a stupidly strong attack with Gram he could have used that we had yet to see, there was nothing to suggest he was holding back considering that Kiba heavily focuses on speed and technique in his fights.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-17, 04:58
While Kiba is strong he has shown no powerful attacks of his own like Extinguish Star, CrossxCrisis, or Crimson Blaster. Kiba or anyone else besides Issei, Rias, Akeno, or Xenovia being nerfed makes no sense at all. Unless Kiba had a stupidly strong attack with Gram he could have used that we had yet to see, there was nothing to suggest he was holding back considering that Kiba heavily focuses on speed and technique in his fights.

I think you are having a big misunderstanding here. You shouldn't compare or use power types like Xenovia and Issei as a reference to assess the full extent of Kiba's combat strength as he is a Pure Technique type of fighter contrary to Issei and Xenovia who were both Power types. If anything you should use guys like Vritra, Cao Cao or Tobio as they're the ones who have some similarities to Kiba's fighting style as they either use Speed,ability or Techniques as as the core of their fighting style. For example you have Vritra there he is not renowned for his power but through his techniques he became a Dragon King . There's also Cao Cao through his pure technique fighting style defeated guys like Azazel(in Downfall Dragon Armor), Vali in his Balance Breaker and Sonneilon who were Satan class fighters. Then lastly Tobio who uses speed plus the abilities of his Balance Breaker and his abyss-side Balance Breaker to defeat Executive class Grimm Reaper and Gressil who were also Satan class in strength in short theyre the ones you used as they're the ones who are more or less similar to Kiba.

But well in terms of power output he can unleash powerful attacks using the technique taught to him by Strada where he releases vast amount of aura at the moment of impact adding to that the technique he used wherein he coat the Gram with his Holy-Demonic Aura to release powerful attack so there's no issue for Kiba in that regard. The proof of that was the fight with Bikou where he overpowered him and he even cut his Ruyi Bang in that fight.

Lucidrago
2020-09-17, 10:23
I think you are having a big misunderstanding here. You shouldn't compare or use power types like Xenovia and Issei as a reference to assess the full extent of Kiba's combat strength as he is a Pure Technique type of fighter contrary to Issei and Xenovia who were both Power types. If anything you should use guys like Vritra, Cao Cao or Tobio as they're the ones who have some similarities to Kiba's fighting style as they either use Speed,ability or Techniques as as the core of their fighting style. For example you have Vritra there he is not renowned for his power but through his techniques he became a Dragon King . There's also Cao Cao through his pure technique fighting style defeated guys like Azazel(in Downfall Dragon Armor), Vali in his Balance Breaker and Sonneilon who were Satan class fighters. Then lastly Tobio who uses speed plus the abilities of his Balance Breaker and his abyss-side Balance Breaker to defeat Executive class Grimm Reaper and Gressil who were also Satan class in strength in short theyre the ones you used as they're the ones who are more or less similar to Kiba.

But well in terms of power output he can unleash powerful attacks using the technique taught to him by Strada where he releases vast amount of aura at the moment of impact adding to that the technique he used wherein he coat the Gram with his Holy-Demonic Aura to release powerful attack so there's no issue for Kiba in that regard. The proof of that was the fight with Bikou where he overpowered him and he even cut his Ruyi Bang in that fight.

So what does any of that have to do with my post? I said how was Kiba nerfed in Yasaka's barrier? I know he has destructive attacks but does he have anything powerful to the point where he couldn't use it in Yasaka's barrier? You said Kiba is a technique-type and focuses on his speed and technique so how exactly was he nerfed in Yasaka's barrier considering that the only thing being prevented there were very powerful attacks that would destroy it hence why Issei couldn't use DxD in there.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-17, 13:29
So what does any of that have to do with my post? I said how was Kiba nerfed in Yasaka's barrier? I know he has destructive attacks but does he have anything powerful to the point where he couldn't use it in Yasaka's barrier? You said Kiba is a technique-type and focuses on his speed and technique so how exactly was he nerfed in Yasaka's barrier considering that the only thing being prevented there were very powerful attacks that would destroy it hence why Issei couldn't use DxD in there.

For the fact his base’s speed is higher than maou-class and could compete with P DxD? But could not kill someone a lot of slower than him with a blitz?

Or has not even used the booster to kill Gressil and Sonneilon in a second?

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-17, 16:50
So what does any of that have to do with my post? I said how was Kiba nerfed in Yasaka's barrier? I know he has destructive attacks but does he have anything powerful to the point where he couldn't use it in Yasaka's barrier? You said Kiba is a technique-type and focuses on his speed and technique so how exactly was he nerfed in Yasaka's barrier considering that the only thing being prevented there were very powerful attacks that would destroy it hence why Issei couldn't use DxD in there.

Kiba was not nerfed in that it was more of he was handicapped in that fight and he couldn't use his techniques and power output necessary to defeat Sonneilon at that time as he was worried that the barrier made by Yasaka might break. In short he couldn't go all out Kiba even damaged the barrier at time here's some of what happen in that fight in Shin volume 3 :

The Holy Demonic swords below him were curled up into balls, but —Only then he understood Kiba’s true motive and paid attention to the things that were happening right behind Kiba. A crackling sound that shook the whole atmosphere. From another space, the handle of the Demonic Emperor Sword — Gram could be seen showing itself. Gram then suddenly dove into Kiba’s hand as if responding to its master’s will. Kiba grabbed the handle and swung Gram, which was endowed with an overwhelming Demonic aura, sideways. —That should’ve been the case, but—

“Don!”

Sonneillon lowered his body and targeted Kiba’s feet which made his right feet lose its footing. Kiba, whose stance was broken, missed Sonneillon’s head by just a little bit. Gram which was swung released an ominous aura faraway, cutting several buildings in half! Gram! As unbelievably sharp as ever!

However—.

“…Urgh…”

Yasaka-san, who created this pseudo-space in a rush, let out a voice of agony whilst keeping the seal …Gram’s destructive power must’ve damaged this space. Kiba, who realized this, weakened Gram’s shockwave. This meant Kiba couldn’t go full strength in this place either. It also didn’t seem like Rias would be able to fire her [Extinguish Star], but Rias should also know this. Kiba fixed his stance and took a distance from Sonneillon. As he did, he boldly smiled upon looking at Sonneillon’s panicked face.

Lucidrago
2020-09-17, 17:10
Kiba was not nerfed in that it was more of he was handicapped in that fight and he couldn't use his techniques and power output necessary to defeat Sonneilon at that time as he was worried that the barrier made by Yasaka might break. In short he couldn't go all out Kiba even damaged the barrier at time here's some of what happen in that fight in Shin volume 3 :

The Holy Demonic swords below him were curled up into balls, but —Only then he understood Kiba’s true motive and paid attention to the things that were happening right behind Kiba. A crackling sound that shook the whole atmosphere. From another space, the handle of the Demonic Emperor Sword — Gram could be seen showing itself. Gram then suddenly dove into Kiba’s hand as if responding to its master’s will. Kiba grabbed the handle and swung Gram, which was endowed with an overwhelming Demonic aura, sideways. —That should’ve been the case, but—

“Don!”

Sonneillon lowered his body and targeted Kiba’s feet which made his right feet lose its footing. Kiba, whose stance was broken, missed Sonneillon’s head by just a little bit. Gram which was swung released an ominous aura faraway, cutting several buildings in half! Gram! As unbelievably sharp as ever!

However—.

“…Urgh…”

Yasaka-san, who created this pseudo-space in a rush, let out a voice of agony whilst keeping the seal …Gram’s destructive power must’ve damaged this space. Kiba, who realized this, weakened Gram’s shockwave. This meant Kiba couldn’t go full strength in this place either. It also didn’t seem like Rias would be able to fire her [Extinguish Star], but Rias should also know this. Kiba fixed his stance and took a distance from Sonneillon. As he did, he boldly smiled upon looking at Sonneillon’s panicked face.

Oh thanks for that. That was my bad. Should've remembered that(to be honest the whole volume was rather forgettable to me).

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-17, 17:18
For the fact his base’s speed is higher than maou-class and could compete with P DxD? But could not kill someone a lot of slower than him with a blitz?

Or has not even used the booster to kill Gressil and Sonneilon in a second?

It's useless even if Kiba has god like speed at that time if he couldn even use the techniques necessary to Defeat Sonneilon. I'll give you a similar case or at least something close to. Remember the fight of Issei and Nimura in Volume DX.4 even though Nimura has the upperhand in terms of speed as it's obvious in that fight that she is faster than Issei in CxC she still can't inflict damage due to her not having the power,ability or technique to defeat Issei in CxC. What Im trying to say is not because you have speed doesn't mean you can already easily kill someone slower than you in a second .Also you have to consider many things in that fight with such as Sonneilon's power,defense,techniques etc.. There's also the possibility of Sonneilon going berserk and the possibility of the barrier being destroyed due to it. Remember in that fight Kiba succeeded in angering Sonneilon and Sonneilon and he was about to remove his limiter to his power if not for Cao Cao and the others arriving.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-17, 17:47
It's useless even if Kiba has god like speed at that time if he couldn even use the techniques necessary to Defeat Sonneilon. I'll give you a similar case or at least something close to. Remember the fight of Issei and Nimura in Volume DX.4 even though Nimura has the upperhand in terms of speed as it's obvious in that fight that she is faster than Issei in CxC she still can't inflict damage due to her not having the power,ability or technique to defeat Issei in CxC. What Im trying to say is not because you have speed doesn't mean you can already easily kill someone slower than you in a second .Also you have to consider many things in that fight with such as Sonneilon's power,defense,techniques etc.. There's also the possibility of Sonneilon going berserk and the possibility of the barrier being destroyed due to it. Remember in that fight Kiba succeeded in angering Sonneilon and Sonneilon and he was about to remove his limiter to his power if not for Cao Cao and the others arriving.

But which techniques? To behead someone it’s not necessary use a powerful attack for Kiba. I remember you Kiba can use Vasco’s technique that does not damage the field.

What? How you can not kill someone slower than you? Kiba if was not for the plot may kill in one seconds a lot of characters. Sonneilon has not an instinct as Crom. Kiba’s base speed was equal to P DxD. He can damage issei’s armour, is enough like prove to kill easily a not true maou-class. Especially Gressil.

Issei only expelling Ascalon from the gauntlet could damage seriously Erebus, for which reason Kiba, a swordmaster can not slash in one second them?

It’s enough only move your sword and cut him. Easily for Kiba at god-speed.

saucerKing
2020-09-17, 17:50
It's useless even if Kiba has god like speed at that time if he couldn even use the techniques necessary to Defeat Sonneilon. I'll give you a similar case or at least something close to. Remember the fight of Issei and Nimura in Volume DX.4 even though Nimura has the upperhand in terms of speed as it's obvious in that fight that she is faster than Issei in CxC she still can't inflict damage due to her not having the power,ability or technique to defeat Issei in CxC. What Im trying to say is not because you have speed doesn't mean you can already easily kill someone slower than you in a second .Also you have to consider many things in that fight with such as Sonneilon's power,defense,techniques etc.. There's also the possibility of Sonneilon going berserk and the possibility of the barrier being destroyed due to it. Remember in that fight Kiba succeeded in angering Sonneilon and Sonneilon and he was about to remove his limiter to his power if not for Cao Cao and the others arriving.
option 1: target the eyes
option 2: keep hitting the same place over and over to accumulate damage
option 3: fire gram aura point-blank at gressil or sonellion so they absorb the whole impact and die.

options he did not lack and i doubt that kiba who is a trained fighter whose style is all about targeting weak points could not think of that. there is a difference between nimura vs issei or kiba vs issei whit his battle whit the artificial devils, issei was wearing an armor. his armor can be repaired, his armor damage is no transmitted directly to issei, on an enemy made of flesh though? kiba can literally use sheer blunt force on the same place until their bones break and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-17, 17:58
option 1: target the eyes
option 2: keep hitting the same place over and over to accumulate damage
option 3: fire gram aura point-blank at gressil or sonellion so they absorb the whole impact and die.

options he did not lack and i doubt that kiba who is a trained fighter whose style is all about targeting weak points could not think of that. there is a difference between nimura vs issei or kiba vs issei whit his battle whit the artificial devils, issei was wearing an armor. his armor can be repaired, his armor damage is no transmitted directly to issei, on an enemy made of flesh though? kiba can literally use sheer blunt force on the same place until their bones break and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate.

Behead them before they can even move a single finger, slash away an arm or foot, cut their gorges.

For someone who could damage Issei’s armour, destroy Bikou’s weapon. if Issei could damage Erebus moving ascalon with the arm, for Kiba should be possible

Lucidrago
2020-09-17, 19:33
Behead them before they can even move a single finger, slash away an arm or foot, cut their gorges.

For someone who could damage Issei’s armour, destroy Bikou’s weapon. if Issei could damage Erebus moving ascalon with the arm, for Kiba should be possible

Have you forgotten? Swords aren't lethal in shounen.

saucerKing
2020-09-17, 19:48
Have you forgotten? Swords aren't lethal in shounen.
neither is anemia or internal bleeding. if you stop to look at DxD as a dbz whit harems and dragons instead of monkeys it starts making more sense.

Lucidrago
2020-09-18, 14:11
neither is anemia or internal bleeding. if you stop to look at DxD as a dbz whit harems and dragons instead of monkeys it starts making more sense.

Difference here is that DBZ has Dragon Balls and no one stays dead for long.

godz
2020-09-18, 18:39
Difference here is that DBZ has Dragon Balls and no one stays dead for long.

issei has died almost as much as krillin, so there is not that much difference.

B214
2020-09-18, 21:32
We even have Evil Dragons saying they can revive after few hundred or thousand years.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-18, 22:41
option 1: target the eyes
option 2: keep hitting the same place over and over to accumulate damage
option 3: fire gram aura point-blank at gressil or sonellion so they absorb the whole impact and die.

options he did not lack and i doubt that kiba who is a trained fighter whose style is all about targeting weak points could not think of that. there is a difference between nimura vs issei or kiba vs issei whit his battle whit the artificial devils, issei was wearing an armor. his armor can be repaired, his armor damage is no transmitted directly to issei, on an enemy made of flesh though? kiba can literally use sheer blunt force on the same place until their bones break and unlike issei armor they cant regenerate.

Kiba can't even get a swing of his sword due to Sonneilon due to him targeting Kiba's wrist and feet so how do you expect him to do that. I mean in that fight he only got to swing his sword for a very few times Sonneilon will just dodge that like what he did when he sent himself flying when Kiba uses Sandantzuki on him and it'll result to the barrier breaking. All of your suggestion isn't possible without Kiba going all out in full strength. That's possible only if Kiba can fight in full strength like maybe in a Dimension made by Dimension Lost or something like that.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-18, 22:43
We even have Evil Dragons saying they can revive after few hundred or thousand years.

The Evil Dragons are abnormal in that regards while the Dragon Kings still needed to some sort help just like Fafnir and Vritra.

saucerKing
2020-09-18, 23:20
Difference here is that DBZ has Dragon Balls and no one stays dead for long.
they dont need them, literally no one (important or named) on the side of the good guys ever dies and even if they did there is the holy grail ex machina
Kiba can't even get a swing of his sword due to Sonneilon due to him targeting Kiba's wrist and feet so how do you expect him to do that. I mean in that fight he only got to swing his sword for a very few times Sonneilon will just dodge that like what he did when he sent himself flying when Kiba uses Sandantzuki on him and it'll result to the barrier breaking. All of your suggestion isn't possible without Kiba going all out in full strength. That's possible only if Kiba can fight in full strength like maybe in a Dimension made by Dimension Lost or something like that.
kiba was moving so fast in his base state that he could keep up whit DxD issei, and whit his thrusters he goes so fast issei cant even see him so how is sonnelion going to react to that when he cant even keep up whit cao cao? and kiba does not even need to be destructive to go all out, he fought issei in a parking lot and it wasn't destroyed, kiba is not issei, when he goes all out things dont go nuclear.

Lucidrago
2020-09-19, 04:10
they dont need them, literally no one (important or named) on the side of the good guys ever dies and even if they did there is the holy grail ex machina

kiba was moving so fast in his base state that he could keep up whit DxD issei, and whit his thrusters he goes so fast issei cant even see him so how is sonnelion going to react to that when he cant even keep up whit cao cao? and kiba does not even need to be destructive to go all out, he fought issei in a parking lot and it wasn't destroyed, kiba is not issei, when he goes all out things dont go nuclear.

You do remember that Sonneillon and Gresil were holding back when they first fought them right?

Sonneillon was actually not taking Kiba as seriously as he should have. If he did, it would have probably been a different story. And this was while Sonneillon was holding back. And Cao Cao timed his movements in accordance with Sonneillon activating [Compression].

Gresil was able to withstand Issei's attacks in CCQ and Akeno's Holy Lightning. And not to mention withstanding attacks from Tobio. How is Kiba with Gram supposed to fare any better? Gresil isn't a dragon and doesn't have a type disadvantage agajnst Gram and there was his ability [Resistance].

Kiba should be able to blitz Tiamat or Grayfia by that logic.

saucerKing
2020-09-19, 04:18
You do remember that Sonneillon and Gresil were holding back when they first fought them right?

Sonneillon was actually not taking Kiba as seriously as he should have. If he did, it would have probably been a different story. And this was while Sonneillon was holding back. And Cao Cao timed his movements in accordance with Sonneillon activating [Compression].

Gresil was able to withstand Issei's attacks in CCQ and Akeno's Holy Lightning. And not to mention withstanding attacks from Tobio. How is Kiba with Gram supposed to fare any better? Gresil isn't a dragon and doesn't have a type disadvantage agajnst Gram and there was his ability [Resistance].

Kiba should be able to blitz Tiamat or Grayfia by that logic.
sonneillon was still completely unable to dodge attacks from cao cao when there was no limiter and cao cao is greatly slower than current kiba so i fail to see how that matters at all, sonneillon failed to dodge cao cao attacks, how is he going to do anything against someone much faster?

ah, if only kiba had something that is lethal against devils like a holy-demonic sword, and if only kiba had been shown capable of hurting issei in P DxD whit them... too bad he apparently doesn't. its not like kiba can blitz him and stab him trough the heart whit a holy-demonic sword. surely gressil will develop a "resistance" against losing a vital organ too.

he definitely should, if he can blitz issei whit his thrusters i fail to see how those two wouldn't get blitzed too. really, right now kiba has enough speed to blitz anyone under issei and his holy-demonic swords are powerful enough to hurt issei even if it cant pierce the armor, guy can definitely take on a satan-class being whit ease.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-19, 05:46
sonneillon was still completely unable to dodge attacks from cao cao when there was no limiter and cao cao is greatly slower than current kiba so i fail to see how that matters at all, sonneillon failed to dodge cao cao attacks, how is he going to do anything against someone much faster?

ah, if only kiba had something that is lethal against devils like a holy-demonic sword, and if only kiba had been shown capable of hurting issei in P DxD whit them... too bad he apparently doesn't. its not like kiba can blitz him and stab him trough the heart whit a holy-demonic sword. surely gressil will develop a "resistance" against losing a vital organ too.

he definitely should, if he can blitz issei whit his thrusters i fail to see how those two wouldn't get blitzed too. really, right now kiba has enough speed to blitz anyone under issei and his holy-demonic swords are powerful enough to hurt issei even if it cant pierce the armor, guy can definitely take on a satan-class being whit ease.


Even god-class beings as Erebus Kiba can defeat

Lucidrago
2020-09-19, 10:07
Even god-class beings as Erebus Kiba can defeat

Why not have Kiba defeat Shiva while we're at it?

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-19, 10:14
Why not have Kiba defeat Shiva while we're at it?

Your humor has not sense, because with the first is possible.

Lucidrago
2020-09-19, 17:00
Your humor has not sense, because with the first is possible.

If Ishibumi can write Sairaorg defeating Balberith, then he can write anything. High School DxD isn't a world with logical constructs, it's the world of Ishibumi. Riser could defeat Typhon or Vidar for all we know in their Rating Game.

B214
2020-09-19, 22:34
As long as Ishibumi wants it, anything can happen. Rias can surpass Sirzechs, Asia can beat a God 1-on-1 etc...

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-19, 23:15
As long as Ishibumi wants it, anything can happen. Rias can surpass Sirzechs, Asia can beat a God 1-on-1 etc...

Well It's already possible for Asia even now to defeat a god(non battle gods) with the help of Fafnir and her Twilight Saint Affection based on her battles shown so far though it's just my opinion.

B214
2020-09-19, 23:36
When i said 1-on-1 means no Fafnir, no familiars. Just Asia solo.

saucerKing
2020-09-20, 00:04
If Ishibumi can write Sairaorg defeating Balberith, then he can write anything. High School DxD isn't a world with logical constructs, it's the world of Ishibumi. Riser could defeat Typhon or Vidar for all we know in their Rating Game.
dont jinx it

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-20, 05:01
When i said 1-on-1 means no Fafnir, no familiars. Just Asia solo.

You might as well ask Asia to suicide herself if that's the case. Summoning familiars was Asia's way to attack since she can only heal .Dragon Taming was part of her talent kind of like how Rossweisse is talented in magic in shorts in short that's her forte aside from her healing.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-20, 05:19
Well It's already possible for Asia even now to defeat a god(non battle gods) with the help of Fafnir and her Twilight Saint Affection based on her battles shown so far though it's just my opinion.

Fanfir not outrage can not defeat god-class beings.

saucerKing
2020-09-20, 18:30
Fanfir not outrage can not defeat god-class beings.
considering how easy fafnir enters an outrage that is irrelevant, really, just tell him "they will hurt asia" (which they will) and done, now you have outrage fafnir.

Fog Gate Boss
2020-09-21, 01:08
If Ishibumi can write Sairaorg defeating Balberith, then he can write anything. High School DxD isn't a world with logical constructs, it's the world of Ishibumi. Riser could defeat Typhon or Vidar for all we know in their Rating Game.

Considering how the Rating Games in the Tournament aren't purely combat focused, that is a possibility.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-21, 01:24
Fanfir not outrage can not defeat god-class beings.

It is very for Fafnir to undergo Outrage mode as long as you hurt Asia (like what Rizevim did) or threaten to do something to Asia (like what Crom did when he threatened to kill Asia) .

Lucidrago
2020-09-21, 17:47
Just tell Fafnir you'll rape Asia. :heh:

Hakai
2020-09-21, 18:09
You tell Fafnir the enemy is planning to steal Asia's panties and he'll reach Dragon God level

AzazelDxD
2020-09-22, 03:00
Just tell Fafnir you'll rape Asia. :heh:

His obsession with her surprises me.. Not happy with that he even wanted to be her daughter armor in EX.

godz
2020-09-22, 08:40
I hope Asia doesn't cry at her wedding or her first time, because otherwise we would see a golden dragon fighting a red dragon :p

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-22, 09:31
It'll be o-pantsu Dragon versus Oppai Dragon if that's the case.

AzazelDxD
2020-09-22, 10:11
If she cries Fafnir will cry even more watching Asia wedding..

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-23, 02:14
His obsession with her surprises me.. Not happy with that he even wanted to be her daughter armor in EX.

I think its understandable in some ways for Fafnir to become Airi's familiar as Asia has already retired in EX so it'll be waste if Fafnir can't be utilized in the frontlines and besides Airi and Fafnir wants to save Asia so it's very understandable for Fafnir To help Airi who is Asia's daughter.

saucerKing
2020-09-23, 04:15
I think its understandable in some ways for Fafnir to become Airi's familiar as Asia has already retired in EX so it'll be waste if Fafnir can't be utilized in the frontlines and besides Airi and Fafnir wants to save Asia so it's very understandable for Fafnir To help Airi who is Asia's daughter.
we also kind of need context on how this happened too, for all we know airi insisted on fighting on the front lines and fafnir accepted to help asia daughter.

B214
2020-09-23, 06:58
Fafnir and Airi are lovers in the future.

Lucidrago
2020-09-23, 11:57
Fafnir and Airi are lovers in the future.

Bestiality to the max. But then would it be considered that since her father is a dragon?

Hakai
2020-09-23, 13:01
Fafnir is Airi's real father

godz
2020-09-23, 14:31
Bestiality to the max. But then would it be considered that since her father is a dragon?

That made me wonder, Issei will have sex with Yasaka in fox form ... would that Furry?

cyberdemon
2020-09-23, 21:10
Bestiality to the max. But then would it be considered that since her father is a dragon?

Maybe fafnir has a human form like Tiamat and crom. Even issei is a humanoid dragon now. His kids are half dragon so beastiality doesn’t really apply.

Lucidrago
2020-09-23, 21:29
Maybe fafnir has a human form like Tiamat and crom. Even issei is a humanoid dragon now. His kids are half dragon so beastiality doesn’t really apply.

I was just thinking of that. I imagine that Fafnir's appearance as a humanoid is a very handsome golden-haired man who's very big and buff since Fafnir is a large dragon hence him being known as 'Gigantis Dragon.'

Sekiryuu12
2020-09-23, 21:40
It wouldn't matter much, the guy is a retard who say things like "O-panty".

godz
2020-09-23, 22:40
It wouldn't matter much, the guy is a retard who say things like "O-panty".

If our protagonist who shouts oppai from the 4 winds found love, what prevents fafnir?

PS: Fafnir was not initially a dwarf?

saucerKing
2020-09-24, 00:48
I was just thinking of that. I imagine that Fafnir's appearance as a humanoid is a very handsome golden-haired man who's very big and buff since Fafnir is a large dragon hence him being known as 'Gigantis Dragon.'
nah, he didn't got called "gigantis" for his height.
If our protagonist who shouts oppai from the 4 winds found love, what prevents fafnir?

PS: Fafnir was not initially a dwarf?
he was, a dwarf who killed his brother because of cursed gold and he became a dragon to better safeguard it.

B214
2020-09-24, 08:15
Well that's the original myth though, not sure if he was a dwarf in DxD.

Giuseppe1234
2020-09-24, 18:35
I’ve noticed only now, but all Dx5 has been translated by someone

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-24, 21:57
nah, he didn't got called "gigantis" for his height.



So what does the word Gigantis signifies then? Just asking.

B214
2020-09-24, 22:53
So what does the word Gigantis signifies then? Just asking.

His reproduction organs....XD

saucerKing
2020-09-24, 23:43
So what does the word Gigantis signifies then? Just asking.
his "horizontal" size? his lower parts? his little fafnir? come on the innuendo was pretty clear there

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-25, 03:18
Maybe fafnir has a human form like Tiamat and crom. Even issei is a humanoid dragon now. His kids are half dragon so beastiality doesn’t really apply.

I imagine if by chance Fafnir assumed human form, it'll be in the form of a middle age man . Too bad Issei can't still Dragonified his whole body .It will be great if Ishibumi will at least show us Issei fight in his Full Body Dragonification .

Hakai
2020-09-25, 03:24
Fafnir takes human form and ends up looking just like Diodora

saucerKing
2020-09-25, 07:45
fafnir human form is a shota to fit his dwarf origins. after all this is the guy who collects treasures (toys) because its shiny, wants to laze all day, does nothing unless he is rewarded and even talks like one.

he will assume human form and demand that asia lets he sleep on her lap and get hugs.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-26, 01:04
Fafnir's human form was boring. Tiamat and Issei's Dragon form are much interesting than Fafnir's human form.

saucerKing
2020-09-26, 02:36
Fafnir's human form was boring. Tiamat and Issei's Dragon form are much interesting than Fafnir's human form.
how can you call boring something you didnt even see? and tiamat human from as far as we know is boring too, its just a woman whit blue hair and blue clothes. and issei is just issei.

Itsmepatrick
2020-09-27, 11:54
I'm not talking about Tiamat's human form I'm talking about her Dragon form as she is the remaining one amongst the Dragon Kings who's Dragon form was still not shown or revealed. It's also much more interesting if Ishibumi will introduce the Dragon form of Issei in the story and he will write a fight of Issei in Dragon form against the Evies . But well I guess everyone has their own taste it preference so it is what it is.

Lucidrago
2020-09-28, 01:55
I'm not talking about Tiamat's human form I'm talking about her Dragon form as she is the remaining one amongst the Dragon Kings who's Dragon form was still not shown or revealed. It's also much more interesting if Ishibumi will introduce the Dragon form of Issei in the story and he will write a fight of Issei in Dragon form against the Evies . But well I guess everyone has their own taste it preference so it is what it is.

Actually she first appeared in her dragon form in Volume 20 when Diehauser interfered with the Rating Game system and she appeared in front of him.

At this point, dragon forms are just basically Western-style and eastern-style with Grendel, Ladon, Yamata-no-Orochi, and Azi Dahaka being the only dragons with distinctly unique appearances. Grendel is a humanoid-type dragon who stands on two legs instead of four like every other dragon in the series, Ladon is shaped like a tree, Yamata-no-Orochi has eight heads, and Azi Dahaka has three heads. Not really a lot to look forward to when it comes to a dragon's appearance and they can't really be said to be unique besides their color.

Itsmepatrick
2020-10-01, 06:34
It'll be a pity in my opinion if he can't use the his body which is made of Great Red's flesh (which is basically his base). I just want to see Issei fight without using Boosted Gear and just him using Dragon form (if by chance Ishibumi introduced this)and standard Dragon abilities like Flame Breath, Aura attacks, Claws .Since he already unlock his base(which is made up of Great reds flesh) I want to see how strong Issei in his base is. But well that's just my wishful thinking though.

B214
2020-10-01, 06:56
Flesh is just flesh though. It's Great Red's aura that's noteworthy not his flesh.
It's the same for most, POD is just POD, its the user that makes it different.
Even the BG is just BG, the user brings out the potential.

Itsmepatrick
2020-10-01, 08:15
I wouldn't say it's just a flesh though as Issei's body which was made up of Great reds was one of the main reason he can use Dragon Deification. Also this flesh or body let's him use dragonification (even though Issei can only do it partially) which increases his raw strength like what happen in volume 14 when Issei fought against the Maverick Magicians.

Giuseppe1234
2020-10-01, 08:19
Flesh is just flesh though. It's Great Red's aura that's noteworthy not his flesh.
It's the same for most, POD is just POD, its the user that makes it different.
Even the BG is just BG, the user brings out the potential.

Inside that flesh resided the power of Great Red, that that now is inside Ryuutemairu. So is not only flesh

Itsmepatrick
2020-10-01, 21:16
Flesh is just flesh though. It's Great Red's aura that's noteworthy not his flesh.
It's the same for most, POD is just POD, its the user that makes it different.
Even the BG is just BG, the user brings out the potential.

Here's what stated in Shin volume 4 and why I said its not just a flesh:

Ophis said.

[Ise, the time finally has come.]

From all over my body, a deep crimson and jet-black aura overflowed.
With my body as the center, these two kinds of auras created a spiral. ...From inside my body, an unprecedented power was swelling. What, this power...this power was asleep inside of me?

[The flesh of Great Red dwelling in Ise is responding. Come, let us sing. The true infinite power of Dragon Deification.]


It's kind of like this :
Ophis power --> Dragon Deification
Great Reds power --> AxA
Great Red flesh --> True Dragon Deification