Code Geass World History & Geography Speculation

[NoSanninWa]

Code Geass takes place in a world which is notably different from our own. Of most obvious note, in this world North America is home to the Holy Empire of Britannia. In a world with so many geopolitical differences we wonder about the background to this story.

This thread is a place to share speculation on how the world political situation has reached this point. We can speculate about such questions as how did the royal family seize power and what countries are still free from the empire. It is not the plot or characters which concern us in this thread, such things can be discussed elsewhere. Here we need to discuss the background to that story.

100People who have information exclusively from the manga should use spoiler tags to preserve the innocence of their fellow members from being despoiled. Here is how you use a spoiler tag:


The entire world is actually inside the matrix and the Emperor is actually an Agent.


Will create this:
The entire world is actually inside the matrix and the Emperor is actually an Agent.

100

To start this discussion, I'd like to mention some of my own hypotheses on how this world could have diverged from our own. I've thought that this might not be our future. It might instead be an alternate history: a world with a different past from our own. Perhaps in the past of this world the American Revolution failed. As a result America stayed part of Great Britain and evolved into the Holy Britannia Empire.

Another thought of possible alternate history is based on the name of the Empire. Britannia is the name used for Great Britain by the Roman Empire. It is possible that after the fall of the Roman Empire, Britannia maintained its civilization and became the core of a new empire that carried on the traditions of the old Roman Empire. Thus the Holy Britannia Empire succeeded the Holy Roman Empire.

[Cal-Reflector]

Others have mentioned in other threads useful speculation pertinent to the subject at hand; perhaps they might repost some of them here.

What is the current extent of the empire? Is it the undisputed world leader? Does there exist other factions/allieances that stand as credible counterweights to Brittania's dominance?

The OP animation shows us that at the very least, outside of the British Isles (the situation on the European mainland is unknown), all of the Americas, from Alaska to Canda to what we call the United States down through Central America, and possibly/probably South America, is part of the British Empire.

Whether the Americas are colonies (like Japan) or an integral part of Brittania (what would've happened in leu of the American Revolution) is up for debate.

I am not sure where Brittania's capital is.

[ordnance11]

Others have mentioned in other threads useful speculation pertinent to the subject at hand; perhaps they might repost some of them here.

What is the current extent of the empire? Is it the undisputed world leader? Does there exist other factions/allieances that stand as credible counterweights to Brittania's dominance?

The OP animation shows us that at the very least, outside of the British Isles (the situation on the European mainland is unknown), all of the Americas, from Alaska to Canda to what we call the United States down through Central America, and possibly/probably South America, is part of the British Empire.

Whether the Americas are colonies (like Japan) or an integral part of Brittania (what would've happened in leu of the American Revolution) is up for debate.

I am not sure where Brittania's capital is.

Well, based on the map shown when Britannia invaded Japan, they definitely hold the North American continent and Hawaii. Australia and New Zealand and possibly South Africa and India. The British Empire of this world at it's height plus, North America. The turning point would had been if the American War of Independence failed.

Now what I want to know is if the Plantagenet line survived to this present day. 1000 years under a single family. Given that the Plantagenet line were prone to fighting each other as well as against foreign enemies, I can well believe why the current Emperor is this way.

[JayF]

Except for an Empire that carries the British namesake they don't act British. Their uniform styles are more Prussian while their more direct and brutal rule reflects (surprise!) the colonial styles of Japan and the Dutch( just ask Indonesia) The British had a tendency to employ large number of native colonial troops while nuturing a local elite to rule by proxy thus minmizing their own presence which they learned had an effect of riling up the natives so to speak.

We can also assume that unlike RL, no world sweeping ideology like commuism or a revivial of religions with militaristic pasts and traditions (the faith is front and centre of the military conquest).which would have greatly destablised an empire with mulitple ethnicities and faiths. This of course assumes that the Empire exapansion is not relatively recent (Two or three generations) and did not have a succession crisis by remote centres of military strength. (Mongol Empire, unparralled militarily but lacked central control to run the conqured lands and maintain central political unity.)

Lastly, we can assume that there is no current exisiental or substantial military threat to Britannia unlike say France and the other European powers were to Britan since we do not see any signs or mention of a frontier. (Rome had to deal with the Persians to the east, while Germania formed a deathtrap due to the Goths.)

[Li Jianliang]

What is the current extent of the empire? Is it the undisputed world leader? Does there exist other factions/allieances that stand as credible counterweights to Brittania's dominance?Britannia is in control of approximately 1/3 of the world. It also appears from the map that the 'Chinese Federation' the Emperor mentioned has control over most of the eastern Asia continent, if not the whole thing.

The Big Daddy emperor of Britannia is currently the 98th emperor, or so I've read.

[Cal-Reflector]

If the 1/3 Land mass statement is true, what does that leave outside of Brittania rule?

East, South East, and Central Asia.
Africa.
Western and Eastern Europe...?
Russia + Mongolia.
Antarctica.
North Pole.
Greeland.

Quite a bit huh.

I think Brittania may have at least a portion of the middle east, as Cornelia was seen putting down a rebellion there.

[katsumi]

Another thought of possible alternate history is based on the name of the Empire. Britannia is the name used for Great Britain by the Roman Empire. It is possible that after the fall of the Roman Empire, Britannia maintained its civilization and became the core of a new empire that carried on the traditions of the old Roman Empire. Thus the Holy Britannia Empire succeeded the Holy Roman Empire.

I don't think this possibility would work out. At times of the Roman Empire there wasn't yet a thinking of "Britannians" as a nation (the idea of "nation" is still young), but rather different people (tribes?), one of them Britons. It would make more sense if the history of the CG world would have been the same as ours up until the American Revolution - seemingly failing in the CG world.
Perhaps history even was slightly the same throughout the 19th century, as it was the century were the Britains gathered their biggest strength and build up the British Empire to its greatest extend.

My speculation is that World War I & II didn't happen, or at least not in the way they happened in our world. If the Empereror hadn't mentioned the European States and, if I remember the subs correctly, the weakness of the European Union, I would have guessed there were no WW I and II at all.

Oh boy, that's confusing to write "our world" :p

Well, based on the map shown when Britannia invaded Japan, they definitely hold the North American continent and Hawaii. Australia and New Zealand and possibly South Africa and India. The British Empire of this world at it's height plus, North America. The turning point would had been if the American War of Independence failed.

Now what I want to know is if the Plantagenet line survived to this present day. 1000 years under a single family. Given that the Plantagenet line were prone to fighting each other as well as against foreign enemies, I can well believe why the current Emperor is this way.

If you take the American War of Independence as turning point for the CG world, there's no way the Empereror's line could still be the Plantagenet line. As far as I know the legitimate Plantagenet line became extinct by the 16th century during the reign of the Tudors. Although I'm not too sure about it, I'll have to check my history books.
And I guess a family prone to fighting each other wouldn't survive 1000 years, they'll get themselves extinct pretty fast :hmm:

[JayF]

98 emperors? Either the line has been ruling for close to a thousand years now or the go through their soverigns like a hentai fanboy does tissues.

[Sonhex]

...
Now what I want to know is if the Plantagenet line survived to this present day. 1000 years under a single family. Given that the Plantagenet line were prone to fighting each other as well as against foreign enemies, I can well believe why the current Emperor is this way.

I'm sure the details were posted elsewhere, but this image from ep 07 (Suzaku's reference book), reveals some info:

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/6602/cg07historyih3.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cg07historyih3.jpg)

Chiefly that England moved to absolute monarchy and expanded under Henry X (possibly fictional) and Edward VI (http://englishhistory.net/tudor/monarchs/edward6.html) into the New World exploiting the chaos in Europe...

[Cloudy]

98 emperors? Either the line has been ruling for close to a thousand years now or the go through their soverigns like a hentai fanboy does tissues.
I think the previous 97 emperors isn't competitive enough to prevent being overthrown except for this current emperor due to the ''survival of the fittest'' rule that the Britanna empire is following.

[Darkeyesrina]

Well, this is my own theory about what happen, so you are free to criticize it or give me any extra.

Most people say that the American Revolution was the turning point of the CG world, but honestly I don't think so. I think it goes a bit more behind. This is my idea/theory:

What would have happen if the actually House of Tord Line didn't die (They were the last line that used the Henry/Edward names)?

What if the Spanish/French Armada actually was able to land in England and start attacking/conquering the country while Queen Elizabeth was actually able to escape to the New World, maybe marry and give her own heir?

Now lets say that this actually happened, and that Queen Elizabeth and his descendants were actually able to live and even start planning and forming their armies to reconquer Britain and destroy their enemies using the resource of the New World.

This way the American Revolution would have never happen because they were "Exiled British" with a national pride and a dream of reconquering their country and destroying their enemies. There was no need to free themselves from the mainland because there was no mainland, they were the country now.

Of course, I pressume that it must have been a very conflicting monarch family in which maybe they had different kings/queens every month until the most powerful was able to rule for a couple of years until their sons/daughters were stronger than him.

Now during the 17th century with the French Revolution and the decadence of the Spanish Empire, the Exiled Britain would have taken the advantage to strike back to the French and the Spanish/Portugal Kingdoms when they were weaker. In one big war, Britain, could have obtained all the rest of the New World and England back.

After that, I suppose everything keep its timeline like today until WWII which I could bet that the Germans won by promising never to attack Britannia and currently the NAZI party is ruling the EEU with puppet states all over Europe. In the EEU the (German) people has equal rights and opportunities.

The Chinese Federation is most likely the current China with the same history. The only difference will be that Britannia never went to war in Europe, but did ally with China and won the war in the Pacific.

I am willing to bet that the Otoman/Turkish Empire did survive the WWI and didn't participated in WWII, but was conquered recently by Brittania.

Maybe Portugal/Brazil are still independant but are only agricultural/raw material countries without much importance.

Yet I am really wondering when the CC's people intervene with the affairs in the CG world and how many times besides the WWI photo.

[Paranoia833]

What would have happen if the actually House of Tord Line didn't die (They were the last line that used the Henry/Edward names)?

You mean Tudor right? If so, you're probably right.

What if the Spanish/French Armada actually was able to land in England and start attacking/conquering the country while Queen Elizabeth was actually able to escape to the New World, maybe marry and give her own heir?

Possible, although personally I think it's more likely that Edward VI simply lived long enough to father an heir, although given that Edward VI's father is referred to as 'Henry X' it would imply that the historical difference goes even further back, possibly the War of the Roses was a lot bloodier in the Geass-verse and they went through several Henry Tudors very quickly? I'm not really sure on the America thing as the anime gives no evidence either way. That said if Edward VI is the same as ours the tone of the history book would imply that Britain prospered considerably from his reign onward. Certainly there was obviously no civil war, and whoever was reigning in place of Charles I may even have gotten away with dissolving parliament permanently (or at least keeping it firmly under his thumb)

After that, I suppose everything keep its timeline like today until WWII which I could bet that the Germans won by promising never to attack Britannia and currently the NAZI party is ruling the EEU with puppet states all over Europe. In the EEU the (German) people has equal rights and opportunities.

Doubtful. The Emporer specifically mentioned 'mob rule' as one of his criticisms of the EU, which would imply a far more democratic society than Nazi rule post Enabling Act. Perhaps the Weimar Republic was overthrown by communism, then went democratic after the collapse of the USSR? Of course a British America might have altered the way the great depression turned out completely and that's assuming the Weimar Republic ever existed (A powerful, strictly monarchist Britain and no America would likely have altered the treaty of Versailles considerably with regards to how the future German government turned out).

The Chinese Federation is most likely the current China with the same history. The only difference will be that Britannia never went to war in Europe, but did ally with China and won the war in the Pacific.

Quite possibly, although we can assume Japan got out of it a lot better out of the war than they did in our world, considering they were still very much independant until Lelouche's childhood.

All things considered, I myself am wondering just how much these 'aliens' (if that's what they are and not some Atlantis-like super high tech society) intervened in human affairs. Presumably the higher level of technology is due to them in some way, but I'll be damned if I can guess how.

Fun as this is, something tells me Geass is going to be deliberately vague about how precisely it differs historically, so as not to attract rants from the history fans. :p

[Cal-Reflector]

You mean Tudor right? If so, you're probably right.



Possible, although personally I think it's more likely that Edward VI simply lived long enough to father an heir, although given that Edward VI's father is referred to as 'Henry X' it would imply that the historical difference goes even further back, possibly the War of the Roses was a lot bloodier in the Geass-verse and they went through several Henry Tudors very quickly? I'm not really sure on the America thing as the anime gives no evidence either way. That said if Edward VI is the same as ours the tone of the history book would imply that Britain prospered considerably from his reign onward. Certainly there was obviously no civil war, and whoever was reigning in place of Charles I may even have gotten away with dissolving parliament permanently (or at least keeping it firmly under his thumb)



Doubtful. The Emporer specifically mentioned 'mob rule' as one of his criticisms of the EU, which would imply a far more democratic society than Nazi rule post Enabling Act. Perhaps the Weimar Republic was overthrown by communism, then went democratic after the collapse of the USSR? Of course a British America might have altered the way the great depression turned out completely and that's assuming the Weimar Republic ever existed (A powerful, strictly monarchist Britain and no America would likely have altered the treaty of Versailles considerably with regards to how the future German government turned out).



Quite possibly, although we can assume Japan got out of it a lot better out of the war than they did in our world, considering they were still very much independant until Lelouche's childhood.

All things considered, I myself am wondering just how much these 'aliens' (if that's what they are and not some Atlantis-like super high tech society) intervened in human affairs. Presumably the higher level of technology is due to them in some way, but I'll be damned if I can guess how.

Fun as this is, something tells me Geass is going to be deliberately vague about how precisely it differs historically, so as not to attract rants from the history fans. :p

Unless some new data turns up in the show soon, I sense the wind going out of this thread...

[cyoti]

98 emperors so far, I wonder will we see the 100th by the time the series ends?

[Cal-Reflector]

98 emperors so far, I wonder will we see the 100th by the time the series ends?

Yeah, his name will be Leulouch Brittania.

[melange]

Certainly there was obviously no civil war, and whoever was reigning in place of Charles I may even have gotten away with dissolving parliament permanently (or at least keeping it firmly under his thumb)

I can't help but think the Civil War itself would be a good Point of Divergence... With a royalist victory, parlimentary representation and the democratic ideals stemming from it would be nipped in the bud and absolute monarchy would be solidified. Just a thought

[ZeusIrae]

Why only one turning point?

There could several,the civil war is one,the american revolution is another.
But even that isn't really enough.Perhaps WWI happened(we see a old pictures in ep2 with WWI tank)and ended with UK as a clear victor.With the rest of europe completely exhausted.

[JediNight]

Where would they get the 98 Emperors from then? Some kind of delusional statement that their lineage traces back through to the Caesars of Rome maybe? Since you guys had mentioned the Holy Brittania/Holy Roman Empire thing.

[Storm-and-Fire]

Well, I came accross a post at livejournal that featured a transcription of stuff written on Suzaku's textbook. It pretty much shows how Brittania came to be.

http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/40650.html

[LS Eden]

Yeah, his name will be Leulouch Brittania.

And who will become 99th? Schneizel? :uhoh:

[ordnance11]

Well, I came accross a post at livejournal that featured a transcription of stuff written on Suzaku's textbook. It pretty much shows how Brittania came to be.

http://community.livejournal.com/code_geass/40650.html


Huh, Elizabeth Tudor married and had a son.

A note on episode 9...Cornelia said fighting had flared up with the EU at a place called El Alamein. This world's version of WWII is on going then?

[Cal-Reflector]

And who will become 99th? Schneizel? :uhoh:

I was about to say that! But I forgot his name... yes, Schneizel, whose reign will go down in history as the shortest one ever, for verily the Man under the Mask came along and usurped his throne in Glorious Revolution.

Sorry, apologize for the poetry.

El Alamein? Ugh, Monty overwhelming Rommel with numerical and material superiority again?

[EmagEvil]

Just wondering... Did the Britannians keep slaves? It's common in the history of all empires... But the Elev... I mean Japaneses aren't handle like that it seem...

To reach a inherit list to 98th, the history of Britannia may be very long... Like the assumption to the 16th centuries...

[asaqe]

Well they were kept in general serfdom. But Sunrise has to be careful about attempting direct references to historical attrocities like the holocaust (That will be a no-no for tv).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Well they were kept in general serfdom. But Sunrise has to be careful about attempting direct references to historical attrocities like the holocaust (That will be a no-no for tv).

Why would there even BE a holocaust? And further, how would it be relevant?
Europe is one big country right now, likely for the sake of self-preservation against the Britannian Empire. There might have been a WWII in their world, but I seriously doubt it is anything like the one we had; Germany, if it even existed, would be sandwiched between Soviet Union and Britannia. While there would most certainly be no war in the Pacific if Britannia held all the lands south of Japan.

[ordnance11]

Why would there even BE a holocaust? And further, how would it be relevant?
Europe is one big country right now, likely for the sake of self-preservation against the Britannian Empire. There might have been a WWII in their world, but I seriously doubt it is anything like the one we had; Germany, if it even existed, would be sandwiched between Soviet Union and Britannia. While there would most certainly be no war in the Pacific if Britannia held all the lands south of Japan.

Well, given that the Japanese are the majority in numbers, once you give parity in power to the Japanese, they'll regain control of Japan. I hppened during the Mongol dynasty of Japan. So:

Britannia has to rise up to power Japanee administrators who are loyal to them

or

Create Final solution:

The Brtiannia of our world would had used the first option. This one?..who knows.

[LS Eden]

I was about to say that! But I forgot his name... yes, Schneizel, whose reign will go down in history as the shortest one ever, for verily the Man under the Mask came along and usurped his throne in Glorious Revolution.

Sorry, apologize for the poetry.

El Alamein? Ugh, Monty overwhelming Rommel with numerical and material superiority again?

As much as I would like something like this, it seems to me rather unlikely. Why would the Emperor die?
If Lelouch killed him, he'd take the throne right away, without giving the Schneizel a chance of ruling Britannia. Besides I don't think the Emperor will die without direct confrontation with his son.

Don't you think it'd be pretty lame if the "villain" died way before the final episode?

[bond4154]

And who will become 99th? Schneizel? :uhoh:

Gundam SEED/SEED Destiny spoiler below. Although it's really just a joke. It won't spoil anything, you just won't get it unless you've seen both.

Emperor Rau Le Britannia...of LOGOS.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Some stuff to add on since this is the history thread. From episode 12 since I didn't noticed this here.

"Due to the loss of the Battle of Trafalgar...Queen Elizabeth III found herself surrounded at Edinburgh by revolutionists, with the help of the Britannian Colony America, which is now called..."

So it seems that the Spanish/French maintained naval superiority (Napoleon would've been in control at the time and probably started an invasion of England) and thus forced the British to escape to the new world. Hence, America became the new motherland but that's just a guess.

[TrueKnight]

So it seems that the Spanish/French maintained naval superiority (Napoleon would've been in control at the time and probably started an invasion of England) and thus forced the British to escape to the new world. Hence, America became the new motherland but that's just a guess.

Good point, but it can also be....

the Britannian Colony in America who helped the revolutionist to start a coup in the first place and thus surrounding the Queen at Edinburgh, resulting in a succesfull coup transferring the monarch authority from the British isles to the American continent.

This is why in the Universe of Code Geass, Britannia is somehow at a cold war with the EU. Because Britannia's existence in the EU has already gone due to the lost at Trafalgar, Nelson screwed big time. ;)

This of course, assuming that the American Revolution in 1776 also didn't take place in the first place, or somehow Britannia manage to surpressed it.

My 2 cents..

[vonLohengramm]

so, if the lost battle of trafalgar led to the loss of british homeland, which is quiet possible, then we can assume that the first thing britannia as a superpower would do, is regain what it has lost. since a unified europe still exists, they might not able to do that, which would mean europe is very powerful as well. maybe this could be some starting point for the late series or 2nd installment.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

so, if the lost battle of trafalgar led to the loss of british homeland, which is quiet possible, then we can assume that the first thing britannia as a superpower would do, is regain what it has lost. since a unified europe still exists, they might not able to do that, which would mean europe is very powerful as well. maybe this could be some starting point for the late series or 2nd installment.

Well, it depended on the exact rate the Britannian empire expands.

One factor that may weaken Britannia's capacity to conquer Europe, is their social policy involving colonies.

Anyway, are you sure the united Europe in Code Geass included the British Isles? It is common to talk about "Europe" as "anywhere in Europe except England", so there is no reason why the Motherland was long recovered by the time Ep1 began. (unless you have a in-show map to prove your point, in which case I would agree with you.)

As for Europe not yet being conquered... Well, there may be a reason. We know there is an on-going war between Britannia and EU, but we didn't know for how long. I personally believe Britannia couldn't take over the world as yet because they have captured far too much territory with their Knightmares (since its development) over too short a time. From the way Area 11 was portrayed, a constant military presence is necessary in all conquered areas because well, the Britannians are not pleasant slave Masters. If half your empire is under martial law, your large army would certainly be hard pressed to free up enough troops to take any more land.

[Renegade334]

The latest tidbit in date from the Code Geass universe (the source is the DVD-1 extra where Teacher!Lelouch makes (for a short moment, though...very short) Student!Suzaku revise Britannian history) states that the ATB ("Ascension Throne Britannia" - and not "After the Battle" as some put it) calendar started when Caesar tried to invade Britain but was met by a strong resistance from the local tribes, who elected a super-leader of their own - a king that eventually started the Britannian royal line. If we are to consider that the Britannian resistance appeared during Caesar's first invasion (IIRC it was 55 B.C.), and that the current year in the CG timeline is 2017 ATB, then it'd be 1962AD for the Gregorian calendar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar)?? Wow, I thought we were already above the 2000AD mark...guess I was wrong, but then Caesar might have tried his luck a bit later than in real history.

Although we believed at first that Britannia started diverging from our real life timeline somewhere before 1775 (American revolutionary war), it seems that this country has a far older history than we first assumed. We should now consider that Rome's expansion spree didn't go as planned and the borders' fluctuations over time might have been quite different from the actual ones. Maybe the Hundred Years' War didn't take place...and the religious conflicts might have even not occurred...

God...the entire timeline's been raped. But in a way, I'm glad the staff put more thought into this than at first sight.

[vonLohengramm]

Well, it depended on the exact rate the Britannian empire expands.

One factor that may weaken Britannia's capacity to conquer Europe, is their social policy involving colonies.

Anyway, are you sure the united Europe in Code Geass included the British Isles? It is common to talk about "Europe" as "anywhere in Europe except England", so there is no reason why the Motherland was long recovered by the time Ep1 began. (unless you have a in-show map to prove your point, in which case I would agree with you.)

As for Europe not yet being conquered... Well, there may be a reason. We know there is an on-going war between Britannia and EU, but we didn't know for how long. I personally believe Britannia couldn't take over the world as yet because they have captured far too much territory with their Knightmares (since its development) over too short a time. From the way Area 11 was portrayed, a constant military presence is necessary in all conquered areas because well, the Britannians are not pleasant slave Masters. If half your empire is under martial law, your large army would certainly be hard pressed to free up enough troops to take any more land.

well, when deciding to conquer something, they´d surely choose to regain their lost territory over conquering new colonies. that means either they are still or again in control over the british islands (which is not very likely, because there are several hints for america being the main part of britannia + the english islands have never been mentioned once in the media or some talk, which indicates nothing important is going on there)
or they are not able to conquer it for whatever reason (which would explain, why there is no talk about it at all). plus, if the (cold) war with the eu was of any importance (which would be the case if they were actually fighting around england), then we would surely have been seeing something from it. atleast some propaganda on the progress.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

As for Europe not yet being conquered... Well, there may be a reason. We know there is an on-going war between Britannia and EU, but we didn't know for how long. I personally believe Britannia couldn't take over the world as yet because they have captured far too much territory with their Knightmares (since its development) over too short a time. From the way Area 11 was portrayed, a constant military presence is necessary in all conquered areas because well, the Britannians are not pleasant slave Masters. If half your empire is under martial law, your large army would certainly be hard pressed to free up enough troops to take any more land.

I'm not sure about your definition of 'slave masters' considering the fact they still get payed and are allowed to work in the settlements (We even see some well-dressed 11's walking around and they can still gain high status) and that it's very easy to do so. And as Oougi pointed out, life under clovis was not that bad. If they were really slaves, we wouldn't even see any 11's in the settlements or citizenship being given to them for that matter. As Lelouch pointed out, the only reason for resistance is pride.

Mainly because the Britannia empire turns those areas into major areas and assimilates the populace into their empire by offering them citizenship status which obviously would lead to their descendants being full britannians. I would say their plans are quite effective. The transition is tough but eventually the native population will be assimilated into the empire, becoming full citizens, which means they can be taxed and relied on by the empire. Citizenship was one of the methods the Romans used on conquered people and it worked for them very well.

If the Empire is as old as to the days of Julius, then it probably explains why the Empire is so technologically advance. When the Roman Empire collasped, Britannia probably held on strongly and thus, kept their documents and continued developing their technology at a steady rate.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Mainly because the Britannia empire turns those areas into major areas and assimilates the populace into their empire by offering them citizenship status which obviously would lead to their descendants being full britannians.

Actually, there is no evidence of that. I know you've mentioned this argument before, but thus far no mention of any Japanese-born "full-Britannians" exist.

It was said that the purist faction wanted to abolish the "honorary Britannian" system. Note that if the "honorary" title was only meant to be for the first generation, it wouldn't be in the system name at all.

Further, if children of honorary Britannians can become full Britannians, I am sure Lelouch would have mention it during his argument with Kallen about the hotdog seller. Quite frankly I have serious doubts that this rule exists.

[Onizuka-GTO]

mmm...i take back my early notions that the timeline diverted at the US Revolution.

I agree, that it most of happened much earlier, after al it only takes ONE break, to change the rest.

I agree that it must of taken sometime during the Holy Roman Empire Era, we can tell that they still retain some version of King Arthur, as the popularity of the name "Lancelot" is wholly due to that myth, it was not even a common name back in those times. The myth which if taken at face value, happened sometime during the Roman invasion/occupation.

If the divert started there, and changed, resulting in the UK Civil War not happenening, and neither the "Act of Union" between Wales, Scotland, Ireland And England.

Without the aid of the other countries, England would of had to face Nepoleans Navy & Army, with roughly less then 1/2 of its fighting strength.

It can be assumed that England were on equal terms with it's neighbouring countries, to allow free trade and safe harbour for their ships.

If the lack of union will also mean the conquest of Ireland never happened, thus Anglophobia in the Irish would not of been at the height it was, and not the horde of them would of travelled to the new colonies, when the Irish Famine which might or might not happen.

The American Colonies would have a majority of loyal citizens. The majority of English troops would be engaged with the French, thus they would not of had the troops to spare to control the eager colonist moving out into more virgin lands, thus not kindling the first steps of the revolution.

Also perhaps this change of history meant that in this world, no SUPER NELSON exist.
without Nelson in command of the fleet, they had no chance.
He was outstanding in every way, up to the point of the fable battle. So for them not to notice him must mean he must of been dead or non-existence.

Either way, alot of things could of happened. :)

Its dammn interesting to learn more about it!

:D

[Shinoto]

I do find one think extremely funny. Britainna's views and goals are pretty much identical to what Japan was and still partly is today lol.

[Onizuka-GTO]

I do find one think extremely funny. Britainna's views and goals are pretty much identical to what Japan was and still partly is today lol.

what's that? spread anime,AV that look like high school girls, and advance electronics filled with stuff we don't need but can kill us because we can't read the manuals but we still buy them because they are cool?
:rolleyes:

[ashlay]

what's that? spread anime,AV that look like high school girls, and advance electronics filled with stuff we don't need but can kill us because we can't read the manuals but we still buy them because they are cool?
:rolleyes:
right wing and far right wing views. (Japan and America seem to be in trending toward a more conservative bent in the political arena nowadays. and eventually it'll move back to the left, the right again, so on and so forth)

but since we're all going to keep making overly simplistic generalizations, and this is about anime, which is less about "right and wrong" and more about "boring and entertaining" when it comes to politics, best that we all just drop it. ^_^

[Onizuka-GTO]

shocked. you called anime politics "boring and entertaining"! does that mean real life politics is "exciting and sleepy"?

:p

sheesh, some people are never happy.... :rolleyes:

[ashlay]

;_; why do you mock me so?

^_^

[Mgz]

eps 16 mentions Indian arms Forces ... so there is another big power in asia besides China after all.

[Onizuka-GTO]

eps 16 mentions Indian arms Forces ... so there is another big power in asia besides China after all.

"Indian Arm forces" doesn't necessary mean it's another faction that is similar in status as the European Union of the Asian (Chinese?) Confederation.

I mean, it could simply mean it's part of a single country, Japan was independent from all the major powers, there is no reason to suggest that it was the only one.

The only reason Britannica Empire hasn't invade India, could be that there is no worth while reason.

[ashlay]

there's also the posibility that india is a de facto ally of the Britannians. (so as to avoid becoming an area)

after all, Laksharta and Lloyd apparently worked together in the past. he also pointed out he didn't think she'd be helping the Japanese.

[Noratav]

The latest tidbit in date from the Code Geass universe (the source is the DVD-1 extra where Teacher!Lelouch makes (for a short moment, though...very short) Student!Suzaku revise Britannian history) states that the ATB ("Ascension Throne Britannia" - and not "After the Battle" as some put it) calendar started when Caesar tried to invade Britain but was met by a strong resistance from the local tribes, who elected a super-leader of their own - a king that eventually started the Britannian royal line.

If the Celtic tribes of Britain reacted to Caesar by appointing a strong unified leadership, then it's likely the conditions the infighting and anti-Roman attitudes of the dominant tribes that provoked Claudius to try again hundred years later never came about. The failure to conquer Britainnia would have had only a minor effect on Roman power, as Britain was only ever a minor backwater province during Roman times. But, a unified, independent and heavily Roman influenced Britannia (consisting of modern day England and Wales) would have emerged as a major power once the Roman Empire collapsed. The Anglo-Saxon invasions would certainly never have happened.

Beyond that we don't know much. Britannia must have conquered (or united with) Scotland at some point, given the reference to Edinburgh in episode 12. If Britannia gained control of Scotland before or during Tudor times as a result of these changes then the Civil War would either of never happened or would have been won by the royalists. No Cromwell, would mean no invasion of Ireland, which would mean no American Independence as described by Onizuka-GTO. I'm also liable to agree that Britannia lost Trafalgar because they didn't have Nelson, but don't ask why he wasn't there. All we know is that the seat of Britannian power shifted as a result from Britain to America, to the point where we don't even know if Britannia even control the British Isles.

[coefficient]

Man, I dunno about this Celtic kingdom thing. We know what non-Romanized Celts become, and they don't become awesome world-spanning empires; they become the damn Irish :p

[Alucard24]

Cecilia sais something about an area 18. It was in the desert, somewhere...

Then, it's logical to say that they conquered at least 17 country (Japan included). :D

[Onizuka-GTO]

Cecilia sais something about an area 18. It was in the desert, somewhere...

Then, it's logical to say that they conquered at least 17 country (Japan included). :D

Not really, They could have at one point have conquered 18 "Areas" but the reality could be that they have far less, as we know all Empires influence and control of geography terrain wanes & grow.

Also, while it may seem logical to name a newly conquered with an ascending numeric number, other logic dictates that it could easily be name in an numeric order depending on its geographic location/it's landmass with in it's defined national borders or even the resources/civil infrastructure/economy it has, at the time of the assessment or during or/and after the conquest.

In short, while it is generally agreed the B.E is a vast empire that could possibly rival or surpass the real life B.E. i.e. "The sun never sets in the British Empire"

There is no evidence to suggest that there are "18 Areas" of equal status.

[Alucard24]

Yeah ok but at least, they is definitively more than 2 areas ! :D

[Onizuka-GTO]

Yeah ok but at least, they is definitively more than 2 areas ! :D

:rolleyes:

fine, if you want to have someone to agree with you.

Yes, I agree.

at leased two areas. :heh:

[Alucard24]

:rolleyes:

fine, if you want to have someone to agree with you.


you're wrong. I'm just looking at this picture :
http://www.videoscoop.ch/geass.jpg

As you can see, Britania is attacking Japan from different direction. That mean, they already have control of those rounded areas on the map before the start of the attack. Furthermore, the area 18 seems to be a desert. Then I doubt it is on one of those islands....

Then, logically, there is :

area 18 (desert unknow)
area 11 (Japan)
at least one more area (assuming all of those islands are only one area number).

That's why I said "at least more than 2 areas"



Don't worry, it's not mandatory for you (or anyone else) to agree with me... ;)

[Onizuka-GTO]

you're wrong. I'm just looking at this picture :
http://www.videoscoop.ch/geass.jpg

As you can see, Britannia is attacking Japan from different direction. That mean, they already have control of those rounded areas on the map before the start of the attack. Furthermore, the area 18 seems to be a desert. Then I doubt it is on one of those islands....

Then, logically, there is :

area 18 (desert unknow)
area 11 (Japan)
at least one more area (assuming all of those islands are only one area number).

That's why I said "at least more than 2 areas"



Don't worry, it's not mandatory for you (or anyone else) to agree with me... ;)


Nice, but unfortunately you missed a crucial factor, if those area you have labelled with question marks were part of the Britannica Empire, how come they were not marked in the same colour as the main North American continent, in that same khaki colour?

Those three areas are highly suspected because:

A) The far left area is coloured green, logically this is to show on a map of conquest the respected opposing forces.

B) The two remianing areas showed no land area, not even a spec.


To account for A. Can be easily deduced by observing modern military history, they can easily be an occupying base, situated in a country due to treaty agreements.

We can see that even today ,as there are many US Bases situated in other countries such as the UK, Germany and Japan, who can easily send out attacking forces.

This does not mean that these countries are part of the US.

Another possibilities is that those points were navy task fleets, movable bases, for the forces to attack from, as was seen in the Gulf War.

Simply put there is no evidence yet to support that there are more then 2 "Areas" except 11 & 18.

:p

[Alucard24]

I guess they are not the same color simply because, they are assimilated, not the "home town" of the empire. In others words, they have not the same value as the north america.

Japan is in red because it's the current target.


Another thing : if you look carefully at this pic in the episode before the zoom out, you can read "Britania" . Why would they write that name if it was not a part of the empire ?



Another possibilities is that those points were navy task fleets, movable bases, for the forces to attack from, as was seen in the Gulf War.


If it was just some navy force, they could have been attacked by the chinese federation nearby. That would cause some trouble when they don't need it. And as Cecilia say in a episode, they don't want a battle with the chinese now.

[Onizuka-GTO]

I guess they are not the same color simply because, they are assimilated, not the "home town" of the empire. In others words, they have not the same value as the north america.



So your saying, that that large landmass to the west of that map, that is coloured in Green, which we can deduced as the China, Cambodia, Indonesia, North & South Korea, Malaysia, and Far East Russia have all been "assimilated" by the Britannica Empire but are not of "equal" status, and thus from your logic they have been coloured differently?

so...what happened to the Chinese Federation? :rolleyes:

No wait, I get you, the Chinese Federation must mean a Federation of CHINESE not INCLUDING China! Aha!
I see your logic!

No. actually, I don't. :p



Another thing : if you look carefully at this pic in the episode before the zoom out, you can read "Britania" . Why would they write that name if it was not a part of the empire ?


On a map of conquest, the line of advance, of each main individual forces will be obvious, however when line of invasion intersects on a territory not of its, own it is usually logical to label these advancing points to the different forces, as to inform the reader/viewer that they are part of the greater offensive from the B.E.

It is a simple reminder that those are bases or gathering of Britannica Forces in a country of location not claimed by them, but are allowing them to attack from.
This gives doubt to your claim that these areas are part of the B.E.


If it was just some navy force, they could have been attacked by the chinese federation nearby. That would cause some trouble when they don't need it. And as Cecilia say in a episode, they don't want a battle with the chinese now.

Now this is a funny claim, by your own admission you stated that those landmass/countries from which the B.E. forces have attacked from, which is not specifically identified as B.E. aligned, you have stated are part of the B.E. but of not "equal" status, thus they have be marked with the differential marking "Green".

From my logical deduction, this means logically that a large portion of the far east, including China itself, either part of the B.E. or allies of unequal status who are willing to help the B.E. to attack Japan.

By this line of reasoning, this means that if those far south points were naval bases/task force they will not be threaten by the Chinese federation, because the surrounding area marked "green" is friendly territory.

hell even China is friendly.

:)

Anway, if you have seen Episode 18, you would of noticed that Zero/lulu mentioned that if Japan had continued to struggle eventually the E.U. & Chinese Federation would of jumped in to contest for a piece of Japan. this is logical, as unless you have a specific defence treaty with the country being attacked, it is usually logical for opposing fractions who are at a technological disadvantage to assess the situation and precipitate when the opportunity arrives.

In all conflict there has not been one incident when an unrelated country has opposed another invasion force intended for a country they were not obliged to defend.

America did not jump to help Europe when Germany Attacked the UK, they waited until they saw that the Brits repelled the invasion.

however Britain joined the war, when its ally Poland was attacked, they were obliged by the defence treaty to come to it's defence.

So in conclusion, there is still no evidence that your theory holds any ground.

Sorry. :rolleyes:

[DJ_RockmanX]

I have been following this topic for a while now, and while I find the discussion and speculation interesting, I think looking at the tangents between the Geass timeline and our own is necessary to get to the more interesting parts of the story's alternate history.

The split between our timelines is officially addressed in the DVD 1 script between Lelouch and Suzaku, when they discuss the origins of Britannia's history.

Taken from verity_isle at the Code Geass Livejournal community, cut for length:

Lelouch-sensei's Britannian History Lecture


01: The Foundation of Britannia, Part the First

Lelouch: Thus went the first part.
Suzaku: ...You're the same as ever, Lelouch. But I think nobody understands what you meant with just 'thus'?
Lelouch: I have no business with people who can't understand. Only those prepared to learn are allowed to learn!
Suzaku: While I'm not so sure about saying Zero-like things... Oh, but on that point, you've always been easily influenced as a kid, right? I remember how you emulated this Tokusatsu hero---
Lelouch: S, shut up with that ancient history!
Suzaku: But I thought we're talking about history today? If we don't talk about the past, nothing can begin.
Lelouch: Ack..... If you're going to pep talk me, I'm leaving.
Suzaku: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'll pay attention. Lelouch-Sensei.
Lelouch: Good. All right, maybe this is a little fast, but. Do you know when the Britannian Empire was founded, Suzaku?
Suzaku: Of course. The current year is 2017 ATB, so it's 2017 years ago.
Lelouch: So sorry you're wrong.
Suzaku: Huh? But, ATB--- 'Ascension Throne Britannia', isn't that 'the foundation of Britannia'?
Lelouch: Aha, seems you did your homework. Well done, well done.
Suzaku: It's just common sense. Anyway, I had to do some studying for the Honorary Britannian admission test, too.
Lelouch: Then, what about the foundation?
Suzaku: If I remember right...something about the time Julius Caesar tried to invade Britannia being the trigger, I guess, but...
Lelouch: Correct. A Celtic king stood against them, and from him began the line of the Britannian Royal Family. He won independence from the Romans, and was crowned king---though I suppose the correct way to put it would be 'chieftain of all tribes'. The count started in that same year. ...So, what's the name of that king?
Suzaku: Um..........I give up?
Lelouch: Oi, Suzaku! Can't you even get that into your head!? That’s going to be on the next test!?
Suzaku: Um, see, I was busy with work...uh.
Lelouch: Then look it up before the next time. Okay? We'll continue in Part the Second!

As silly as the conversation is intended to be, it is clear that the timeline of Code Geass begins at around 55 to 54 B.C., as speculated previously by others. They don’t give us a name for the Celtic king/chieftain, but this does mark the beginning of Throne Britannia.

History differences: Britain does not become a Roman Province, an absolute monarchy is established, and the Celtic tribes are unified. The Roman and Sub-Roman periods of Britain’s history are effectively eliminated, because of the obvious lack of Roman presence and influence.
History similarities: Well this is where everything should be completely different, because this era of British history was defined by Roman influence.

The Middle Ages have not been addressed by the writers of Code Geass, so it is impossible to determine how the timeline split affects this period of history. Everyone is free to speculate on this era.

History differences: Damned if I know.

Early Modern Britain (as the Wikipedia article calls it) has deviations apparent from the history lessons at Ashford Academy. The textbook from episode 7 gives us some insight as to what is happening here:

Taken from logi at the Code Geass Livejournal community:

"... of Henry IX, son of the great [Elizabeth I?]...flourished as never before.
While other European countries stagnated assailed by waves of people's revolutions and parliamentarization, England held fast to absolute monarchy, and saw continued development through the reigns of King Henry X and Edward VI thanks to the wealth produced by the New World."

The journal entry speculates that Henry IX was the son of Elizabeth I, but this is unlikely to be the case. The textbook itself goes on to mention kings such as Henry X and Edward VI, the former of which is fictional and the latter of which died at age sixteen. If the monarchy following the Wars of the Roses remains unaltered from our own timeline, then Henry VIII of the Geass timeline would be the same as the Henry VIII of our own. The information points to this conclusion because of the existence of Edward VI, whose history is only altered that he lived to reign rather than having died young.

Henry IX and X could then be assumed to be heirs of either Catherine of Aragon or Anne Boleyn, or one from each. They can also be speculated to be the children of these marriages that did not survive into adulthood, and Geass history merely rewrote them as Henry IX and Henry X. Edward VI was the heir to the throne from Jane Seymour, and Geass rewrites history so that he lives and has a prosperous reign.

Aside from an altered family tree for the Tudor family, the textbook mentions that the English absolute monarchy remained as such, while the rest of Europe was in the midst of revolution and “parliamentarization”. This is also a far departure from our timeline in that Britain was actually one of the first countries to have a system of parliament, dating back officially to Henry III. Take note however, that royal supremacy was restored at about the time Henry VIII came to the throne, and the parliament behaved submissively under his rule. Perhaps the parliament was dissolved by the king? Or did it never exist at all? I’ll leave it to the Geass writers to tell us that.

Furthermore, as much as the textbook makes Britannia superior for maintaining order and prosperity at the time, it outlines the foundations of what many of us might believe to be the EU, similar to our own European Union of today. Why would this version of Europe become the EU? Europe at this point in history was a collection of various monarchies in a great struggle to control colonization. Geass history paints the picture so that the rest of Europe was more politically progressive than Britain, which is the stark opposite of how it was in ours.

The text mentions the New World, which Western culture knows as the Americas during the Age of Discovery. We can then assume that Britain as this point is in control of colonies at this time, similar to how the British Empire also began colonization at this period of history. We know by history of the colonies of Newfoundland, the Thirteen Colonies comprising the original United States, Canada’s Atlantic Provinces, and Britain’s claims to the Caribbean at Barbados and Jamaica. There are also the various colonies controlled by other countries of Europe, but there are far too many for me to list. For how I will explain Britain’s later history, let’s just assume that Britain still controls its colonies up until the American Revolution, where many feel that the greatest tangent lies.

History differences: The altered line of kings (Henry IX, Henry X, Edward VI), less progressive Britain and the absence of Parliament in Brittanian history, and a more progressive Europe earlier in history.
History similarities: Colonization continues for both Britain and Europe.

I'll get to how Britainnia ended up in the America in another post when I've thought about it some more, although the alternate results of the Battle of Trafalgar play a role in that. The parallels between Geass history and the history of Modern Britain are where it'll get tough, especially in regard to technology during the World Wars, if they ever happened the way we know they did.

[Alucard24]

So your saying, that that large landmass to the west of that map, that is coloured in Green, which we can deduced as the China, Cambodia, Indonesia, North & South Korea, Malaysia, and Far East Russia have all been "assimilated" by the Britannica Empire but are not of "equal" status, and thus from your logic they have been coloured differently?



No I didn't say that. All I said is it's doubtfull that Britania launched the attack from a country who isn't assimilated because

1. that country may not be really happy with that and that could cause a little war (win Britania of course)
2. Britania isn't the kind of empire to ask nicely other country to lend them some part of their territory, they'll take the entire country in one shot, that's easier
3. China would not be happy with that and like I said earlier, if it was only a fleet without other support far away any base of the empire, it would be easy for the china to attack them due to proximity.



It is a simple reminder that those are bases or gathering of Britannica Forces in a country of location not claimed by them, but are allowing them to attack from.
This gives doubt to your claim that these areas are part of the B.E.


If it's like that, then that's mean this map isn't completely accurate because there is another name on this country (imagine if the US writed US Army on Europe.... Even if they have base there, this isn't the america...). Wich mean, the colors are not representative either : no such thing as a color for "friends" and another one for enemy. They just changed the color of the capital and of the target and that's all :D

btw, no I didn't see the 18 for now.


@random : I think you could be right. It would make senses that Bratina and Europe have kept their colonies. I would even say that it will be strange for Britania for not take them back (if they ever lost them). As for the Great Britain, they would definitively recover it, just because of pride.

[Onizuka-GTO]

No I didn't say that. All I said is it's doubtfull that Britania launched the attack from a country who isn't assimilated because

1. that country may not be really happy with that and that could cause a little war (win Britania of course)
2. Britania isn't the kind of empire to ask nicely other country to lend them some part of their territory, they'll take the entire country in one shot, that's easier
3. China would not be happy with that and like I said earlier, if it was only a fleet without other support far away any base of the empire, it would be easy for the china to attack them due to proximity.




If it's like that, then that's mean this map isn't completely accurate because there is another name on this country (imagine if the US writed US Army on Europe.... Even if they have base there, this isn't the america...). Wich mean, the colors are not representative either : no such thing as a color for "friends" and another one for enemy. They just changed the color of the capital and of the target and that's all :D

btw, no I didn't see the 18 for now.


@random : I think you could be right. It would make senses that Bratina and Europe have kept their colonies. I would even say that it will be strange for Britania for not take them back (if they ever lost them). As for the Great Britain, they would definitively recover it, just because of pride.

okay, i agree, this map isn't accurate. Therefore if we had to speculate on how many geographic areas that were conquered by the Britannica Empire, the answer still comes back to square one.

Area 11 and Area 18.

Thank you for talking round in circles. :rolleyes:

As for time of conquest I hear from some where that that if you calculate that 55 BC was the starting point, that the current time which is 2017ATC is roughly 1962.

Now if that's true, then it will explain why they have the current situation, we can tentatively conclude that at ONE world war occurred as the British never would of developed the Tank, if they were not stuck in a lengthy war, to bring about such accelerated push in military technology.

Now lets just imagine, that if the First world war occurred but but slightly differently, as in it would of been the B.E versus the EU/Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria, the German Empire & Ottoman Empire.
but from the Americas with vastly more man power,it could influence the way the defence Treaty that laid the seeds to the Great War. The only reason the Great War fell to the Alliance was the fall of Imperial Russia, if Russia never had the Communist revolution, and was in fact an Ally to the Central Power, it could be conceive that the Great War could actually continued way into the early 1930's.

Concluding in the victory of the Central Powers forming the Core of the European Union, this would forsaken the tragic misgiving of a certain Jewish soldier with a grudge against Germany...

This either throws off the Second World War, delay it (hence the 30yrs later), or what we are seeing now is still a low intensity Second World War in widely distributed skirmishes between the three main powers. All this means is that the second huge push in technological advancement would be delayed and hence no nuclear weapons.

Well, at leased Japan is happy, it didn't get nuked.
:rolleyes:

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Well, at leased Japan is happy, it didn't get nuked.
:rolleyes:

Not YET.:heh: It can still happen...:eyespin:

[Onizuka-GTO]

Not YET.:heh: It can still happen...:eyespin:

mm..true. but i got a feeling the North American continent has a 40% chance of been nuked and anywhere in between or in Asia at a funny 10%

:)

[DJ_RockmanX]

mm..true. but i got a feeling the North American continent has a 40% chance of been nuked and anywhere in between or in Asia at a funny 10%

:)

Well the only problem here is that Britannian science is only now discovering the benefits of nuclear energy. They don't even have internal combustion or gunpowder for that matter... :confused:

I'll be posting the 2nd part of my uber analysis later today probably, look forward to it! :heh:

[Onizuka-GTO]

Well the only problem here is that Britannian science is only now discovering the benefits of nuclear energy. They don't even have internal combustion or gunpowder for that matter... :confused:


Don't be rediculous, of course they have gunpowder. you cannot have shell ejecting, explosive projectile weapons without discovering smokeless powder for the ammunition.
We just know that they have laser/particle beam technology and the respective "shield" type, able to repel physical as well energy weapons.

As for internal conbustion engine, i haven't seen anything to suggest they have not discovered it.

unless i've missed some very obvious evidence that the current vehicles are not based upon internal combustion engines? even the discover of electric diesel, or alternative LPG emission vehicles are based on the common engine block design.

unless they are turbine/electric based? if they had discovered turbine technology first, hence jet engines, they could easily adapt it to vehicles, as we see in Tanks, alternator electric motors are not complicated, at the beginning of the Great War submarines had electric motors that were at leased 20-30% efficient.
considering that todays electric motors are at best 70%, its not hard to imagine 30yrs+ of accelerated technological research would advance it, after all it would be used in kinghtmares.

[Alucard24]

On a side note, the only reason because europeans country have give up there colonies why because the president of USA of that time requested it (in order to make them weaker).

If USA doesn't exist, then that request would not be made. Therefore, Britania and France would keep their colonies.


That makes sense because they say that Britania has conquered the third of the world. And North America is definitively not the third of the world...

[DJ_RockmanX]

Don't be rediculous, of course they have gunpowder. you cannot have shell ejecting, explosive projectile weapons without discovering smokeless powder for the ammunition.
We just know that they have laser/particle beam technology and the respective "shield" type, able to repel physical as well energy weapons.

As for internal conbustion engine, i haven't seen anything to suggest they have not discovered it.

unless i've missed some very obvious evidence that the current vehicles are not based upon internal combustion engines? even the discover of electric diesel, or alternative LPG emission vehicles are based on the common engine block design.

unless they are turbine/electric based? if they had discovered turbine technology first, hence jet engines, they could easily adapt it to vehicles, as we see in Tanks, alternator electric motors are not complicated, at the beginning of the Great War submarines had electric motors that were at leased 20-30% efficient.
considering that todays electric motors are at best 70%, its not hard to imagine 30yrs+ of accelerated technological research would advance it, after all it would be used in kinghtmares.

Well, I found this out some one of those uber spoiler places, of whose reliability I cannot say for myself. But supposedly the DVD1 came with a diagram/blueprint for a Britannian gun run by some kind of motor, and if the gunpowder thing is true then the blueprints would have shown us how. Internal combustion and how it isn't present in Code Geass is way beyond me, and I'm not gonna even try to rationalize that until Sunrise gives us a better explanation.

The continuation for my analysis on Geass history will have to wait till later I suppose, my internets are being weird right now. It'll semi-address the presence of what would have been the United States, but instead more along the lines of "crap we lost against Europe let's flee to the American continents" kind of deal.

[SinsI]

They obviously do have explosives. As for the internal combustion - it must've been replaced by an alternative much better (sakuradite?) power source already. And using it in guns is an obvious choice, as that provides one with a far greater ammo capacity.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

They obviously do have explosives. As for the internal combustion - it must've been replaced by an alternative much better (sakuradite?) power source already. And using it in guns is an obvious choice, as that provides one with a far greater ammo capacity.

Indeed, small mobile military walking-mecha like the Knightmare simply could not be powered by combustion engines. Thus, if we assumed that an alternate compact engine exists for Knightmares, it is easy to believe that the said imaginary engine system was developed in preference to those run on fossil fuels for both military and civilian hardware. I suspect it to be the rechargeable or swappable battery system and electric motor. Fuel cells perhaps?

After all, there was a time when electric cars were considered more practical and reliable than petrol cars.

[Onizuka-GTO]

After all, there was a time when electric cars were considered more practical and reliable than petrol cars.

You have a point there, while some people may be or may not be aware is that the concept of fuel cell was discovered in 1838 by a German scientist, but it was only in 1959 when a British inventor created a 5kW fuel cell, then an improved version which went to 15kW. (Germany thinks, British Makes, oh the irony!)

So if we take that in account, it is quite possible that the vehicles we see on the civilian market could very well be Fuel Cell.

Then we move onto 1960's where a 200kW fuel cell was used for the space program, while we have no evidence to suggest any sort of space exploration in Code geass world, that technology is more the enough to be modified for vehicle if there were no competitive and widely distributed internal combustion engine.

[Renegade334]

Time to perform some thread necromancy.

Looks like (please notice the emphasis on 'looks', as I can't read/speak Japanese), after all, there isn't any gunpowder on Britannian arms. The old-fashioned handguns displayed here (and featured on the Code Geass DVD-1 extras) have some sort of electric/electronic contraption replacing the bolt carrier group, making the weapon some sort of miniature railgun or Gaussian gun.

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7874/britanniaarmsur1.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/7874/britanniaarmsur1.jpg)

It sort of explains why the Japanese, despite having Kongo-class warships and Leopard 2-type MBTs (Main Battle Tanks), still have pistols that look like WWII model-offshoots, and why the Britannian police still have Webley revolvers instead of more modern and higher capacity, Walther P99-lookalikes. They simply don't need the modern handgun architecture (although I wonder why they don't lose the revolver design...a modern pistol's magazine actually can have double more capacity than a cylinder can ever hold).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Ah, now I see.

Gunpower does exist in Code Geass, but it has fallen out of favour historically due to room temperature superconductor developments, allowing a variety of rail/gauss weapons to be efficently and practically produced and marketed.

It's like the bow and arrow; archery still exists in our world, we just don't use it as a common weapon any more.

(Oh, for people wondering; technologically we already have several potential designs for similar weapons, but it isn't as yet possible because the magnetic circuits would overheat and destroys itself either before or after a single shot.)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Hate to doublepost, but it's been a while and my new point isn't related to the previous post...

As we all know, Code Geass has a weird history similar yet different from our own.

So now with the latest episode 19, the Chinese Federation bared its fangs.

Why the Chinese though?

Looking at the Code Geass map, you would realise that the Chinese Federation encompasses the entire Russian landmass!!

How is that possible?

Now, let's face it. Conquering Russia is no joke. Hitler tried it, and Napoleon tried it. Both ran home to mama with their frost-bitten tails between their legs.

So how could it be done in an alternate history?

One name. Genghis Khan.

The Mongolian Horde were the only army I know of that managed to invade and keep Russia. (Part of the reason being they were as used to the cold as the Russians were.) They were also Asian to boot, which help the theory. If Genghis Khan's empire didn't collapse and break apart like what happened in our world, but instead formed one big country, then the Chinese Federation can be a believable name. The point being Russian identity never blossomed, as they were absorbed by China.

If my theory is correct though, then the CF might be more unified and powerful than previously believed. Instead of several countries recently united as a defense against Britannia, it might be one big country that was around for more than 700 years.

This means of course, Area 11 is now stuck between a rock and a hard place. Woops.:heh:

[Onizuka-GTO]

you have a good point.

But as we have discussed about the map, it may or may not be as accurate as we believe.

We don't have any sufficient information to believe the Chinese Federation, include portion of Western Russian Siberian geography nor any of Thailand, Cambodia & Malaysian Archipelago.

[Alucard24]

Cecilia mentionned a battle against EU then can we assume that the empire has some kind of territory between EU in Chinese federation ?

If it's the case, that would explain why she want to return there as fast as possible....

[Juvyniled]

Did they ever mention the European Union? That is a relatively new term to categorize the countries that are part of the pact.

[vonLohengramm]

i do not believe the theory of the chinese federation being descendants of the mongolian horde could be true.

firstly it was said that in the chinese federation has a policy of equal rights.
this is a direct hint to a communist china.
secondly because it is very very unlikely that equal rights could have been developed out of the tribal/feudal system the mongols had.
and thirdly because it seems the history only went majorly different after 16th century (or even later). by that time the mongolian thread was already pretty much over.

and if the chinese federation was under mongol rule, it would more likely have been namend mongol federation.

it would be much more probable, that after russia and china became communist states, they made some sort of union, with china as the more influencial part.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

i do not believe the theory of the chinese federation being descendants of the mongolian horde could be true.

firstly it was said that in the chinese federation has a policy of equal rights.
this is a direct hint to a communist china.
secondly because it is very very unlikely that equal rights could have been developed out of the tribal/feudal system the mongols had.
and thirdly because it seems the history only went majorly different after 16th century (or even later). by that time the mongolian thread was already pretty much over.

and if the chinese federation was under mongol rule, it would more likely have been namend mongol federation.

it would be much more probable, that after Russia and china became communist states, they made some sort of union, with china as the more influential part.

You see, it is exactly because I don't believe China could be more influential than Russia that I rejected that idea.

The Mongolian Empire in our world fragmented and collapsed. I am not suggesting that the empire was kept in the Code Geass world, but that the general shape of the country was maintained even after a change in leadership when the Mongols lose power. Lenin, for example, could still have been born. Instead of the Russian Tsar, we would have an alternate royal family that ruled over the entire empire, and Socialism arised anyway and took over the country later on.

[EmagEvil]

It's just me or just after seen episode 18 i was wondering if Nina Einstein is related to the famous Einstein? their works about the nuclear are very similar, no?
Just wondering how Japan didn't get invaded before the Brittania's one...

[vonLohengramm]

You see, it is exactly because I don't believe China could be more influential than Russia that I rejected that idea.

The Mongolian Empire in our world fragmented and collapsed. I am not suggesting that the empire was kept in the Code Geass world, but that the general shape of the country was maintained even after a change in leadership when the Mongols lose power. Lenin, for example, could still have been born. Instead of the Russian Tsar, we would have an alternate royal family that ruled over the entire empire, and Socialism arised anyway and took over the country later on.


alright, that might be possible.
however it is also possible, that china is the leading culture in asia.
because its power was just declining after china went into isolation during the 15th century. right before that it had the largest fleet in the world, traveling through the southern asian oceans. if it had not abandoned its policy of expansion and did not isolate it is also quiet possible that china maintained the leading status in asia.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Actually the EU is more similar to Communism. (or is that socialism? I'm no expert on political science)

But the E.U is mentioned as a union which promotes "equal wealth" .

Equal rights is for the Chinese Federation, so if we take that in context, Chinese Federation could very well be a Democratic or Republic.

[vonLohengramm]

yes equal wealth is a even stronger hint at communism/socialism than equal rights because as you said equal rights might also be promoted by a democratic state.
however it was said by the emperor the chinese federation made their citizens equal = communism and the eeu their policies = democracy

[Onizuka-GTO]

true communist policy also dictates equal "policies"

democracy on the other hand is not necessarily so, as long as the majority of the people can vote, the policy can distribute the wealth unequally, or other matters, as long as it does not infringe on the rights of the masses to vote.

That's democracy.

But we are talking in absolute things, that cannot be applied to a real world.

IMHO the Chinese Federations seems like either a liberal democracy or a Semi-Democratic state with a ruling oligarchy (similar to the USA)

While the E.U. is more of a Socialist/Socialist with representative Democracy, (Like Germany) but this is all speculation.

[JayF]

I suddenly remembered, is there an imperial family in the CG Japan? Bushido appears to be alive and well, but it would be a serious anomaly if the central figure of the ideology is non-exsistent?

[Terrekain]

Yeah! Japanese animated revisionist history. I want to play too! :D


The American Colonies would have a majority of loyal citizens.

Ye'gads! Did a Brit actually say that?! :twitch: And I thought the BAE culture was bad enough.

America did not jump to help Europe when Germany Attacked the UK, they waited until they saw that the Brits repelled the invasion.


:heh: I could be wrong here, but I think the American entrance into the war had more to do with an infamous sneak-attack by a certain pacifist country. Not to say that the Battle of Britain wasn't inspiring, but let's face it: Britain and the allies were losing the war in 1941. If anything, Allied performance in WWII was a disincentive for American entry :rolleyes: .



IMHO the Chinese Federations seems like either a liberal democracy or a Semi-Democratic state with a ruling oligarchy (similar to the USA)

While the E.U. is more of a Socialist/Socialist with representative Democracy, (Like Germany) but this is all speculation.

That must be satire :eyespin: . Actually, the USA is a federal republic, as is Germany, but with a parliamentary twist. And yes, I know about the oligarchy wannabes...

they're called liberals :uhoh: .

[Renegade334]

I suddenly remembered, is there an imperial family in the CG Japan? Bushido appears to be alive and well, but it would be a serious anomaly if the central figure of the ideology is non-exsistent?An earlier universe tidbit hinted that after a certain loss a century or two ago, Japan's regime changed...not sure if it meant the end of shogunates or the imperial family.

Anyway, spoilers and magazines information have been pointing a less-than-subtle finger at a certain person.Kaguya, who's purported to be a princess...perhaps the last member of the I. family.

[Alucard24]

In the episode 19, they say that they have some "area". It seems they are after something specific in those countries.

They talk about the 7th.

Then, when I said there were more than 3 areas (8 and 11) I was right :) :D

[Guppy]

:heh: I could be wrong here, but I think the American entrance into the war had more to do with an infamous sneak-attack by a certain pacifist country. Not to say that the Battle of Britain wasn't inspiring, but let's face it: Britain and the allies were losing the war in 1941. If anything, Allied performance in WWII was a disincentive for American entry :rolleyes:You might want to consider the dates of the following naval engagements before concluding that the US was standing aside in 1941 until the Pearl Harbor attack:


April 10, 1941 - Destroyer USS Niblack drives off a German U-boat with depth charges after picking up survivors from a torpedoed merchantman.
September 4, 1941 - Destroyer USS Greer evades a torpedo attack from a U-boat off Iceland and returns fire with depth charges. President Roosevelt calls the attack "piracy" and declares that US warships will attack any German or Italian vessels found within waters "which are vital to American defense."
October 17, 1941 - Destroyer USS Kearny is struck by a German U-boat's torpedo while escorting convoy SC-48 and damaged with the loss of 11 crew.
October 31, 1941 - Destroyer USS Reuben James is sunk by a U-boat while escorting convoy HX-156, with the loss of 115 crew.

[Onizuka-GTO]

That must be satire :eyespin: . Actually, the USA is a federal republic, as is Germany, but with a parliamentary twist. And yes, I know about the oligarchy wannabes...

they're called liberals :uhoh: .


there is a big differences between what one country claims it's governmental system is called, and what's the reality.

:rolleyes:

oh, and me? a satirical Brit? umpossible.

:eyespin:

[vonLohengramm]

well, i also believe germany to be a federal republic. its economic system however, is called social market economy, which means basically that the state intervenes into the market and helps each citizen with offering free education and so on.

and why would should they not make the eu (which seems technologically pretty advanced after seeing ep 22) democratic, and chinese federation communists?
it´s a clichee that chinese are communists, so why not make them like that in cg universe.
and we all know the eu in our universe tries to unify europe on a long term basis, why think of something totally new, the writers could just state that in the cg universe, they already suceeded.

[HunterRequiem]

Depending on the theory of Americain government you choose to identify with, you may interpret the US government differently.

1) Elitist Theory: The government is controlled by a small social elite. The elite does not necisarily cooperate (rarely does, in fact).

2) Pluralist: Interest groups make sure that political leaders are aware of the issues at hand. Since there are so many, there is no particular political elite since everyone gets the same ammount of say.

Note: "Elite" does not refer to the economic elite, though there is a degree of overlap. The elite are the people who are active in the political process. This includes everyone from the members of the NRA (national rifle association) to to the ALF (Animal Liberation Front). The elite often clash over issues, given their often massive gap in ideaology.

The US is a Federal Democratic Rebublic

(back on topic)

As to the discrepancy in the timeline, it is possible that 2017 is simply a discrepancy made by the staff, asuming people would assume that meant AD, or, it is possible even that whoever established the dating system made a mistake at when the empire was actually established. After all, Christ was actually born somewhere arround 4 AD, not 1 (major oops on someone's part).

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Yea I think the Code Geass alternate history is presented on a DVD extra, It also says that the calendar system in Code Geass is based on the failed invasion by Caesar... so since that occurred in 54-55 BC our time, that probably means any year in Code Geass would need 55 added to it so Code Geass is taking place in the 2070's probably in our time.

The one thing I wonder is then are the main inhabitants of Britannia (or at least the UK region we know today that would be the "headquarters of the empire") actually Celts?

The Celts were the main inhabitants of Britain and the region when Caesar invaded so if they managed to overpower the Roman empire and form a kingdom is it not a Celtic Kingdom? The Anglo-Saxon's didn't begin any major incursions of Britain until the 300 or 400's I think. So then if Britain had already formed into a significant nation by that time and if this line of succession in the Brittanian Empire can indeed be traced back to that first King perhaps they also repelled the Anglo-Saxon invasions which killed around 50% of the Celtic population in the process.

So then that would make this world empire in Code Geass actually the "Irish"?;)
Just reposting an interesting observation from Toonzone forums...
Yeah, the idea that Britannia is the Irish empire is most interesting indeed.:D

Anyone Irish around here? I would like to hear your opinion on this.:p

[4Tran]

Just reposting an interesting observation from Toonzone forums...
Yeah, the idea that Britannia is the Irish empire is most interesting indeed.:D
It's a neat theory, but it doesn't really work since the Celts aren't exactly unique to Ireland. The Celtic inhabitants of Britain at the time of the Roman invasion were fairly diverse groups that were rarely cordial with outsiders, and the Irish Celts would definitely qualify as such.

[Nazaroth]

With 98 Emperors... all saying ruled for about 20 years... give or take... given to some chances of the civil wars mentioned... was about 1960 years of legitimacy of Emperors... by the looks of it they were not always of the same house, as it seems with the many sons and daughters that the 98th one has. (Used as an example.)

As for how this started, probably due to a council of the kings of Britannia (or effectively The British isles)... with one united chief, it would seem that they could hold off the Romans and keep their independence. With this they probably stayed trade partners with the Republic, because the Roman Civil war had yet to happen. So as the kings were united... did Rome stay a Republic? or did did a failing Julius still became murdered within the Senate. In fact... did Caesar still have the fame and glory?

Even with the Empire being thus, a stable trade and dangers of landing and controlling a beach head, probably kept the Britons alive. Given that they would have a stable kinship, probably developed deep partener ship with Rome. Thus when Rome fell, Briton possibly kept a very strong Roman Imperial sense of rule, especially with the offspring constantly trying to win against one another, the smarter and more charismatic would follow through?

As a nexus, or 4th Rome, Londinum (present day London) could have been a support of literary power, A united Briton would be relatively easy to hold against invading barbarians... and without a sword in your back... you can think.
So with the fall of Constainople, and the movement of scientists back into the west... could've sparked a Rennaisance not only in Rome... but in London.

With such it is possible, that wth the beginning of Colonialism and superiority of strategic placement, would've been better off in the arms struggle with Spain and France. With the Neopolianic Wars... maybe Britain would've been far more effective with a constant struggle with its own elites to be the best?

Further still, Even with the Declaration of Independence... maybe the greater power of the elite and constant adaptation ability, would've fared much better in the American theatre, possibly winning the war.

America could've possibly developed much faster, with no regard with the Native Indians due to its deeply rooted beliefs of Ranked society?
Indians as Numbers?

Even with the opening of Japan, it could be seen as a strong example of Britannian as the main opening force... firing of the guns in the port.

With the future control of South america, and Central America, and continue control of India, South Africa and Austrailia... I can easily imagine that Britannia could hold 1/3 of the world's land mass.

Though I believe the World Wars would become null and void, as a tiny Germany would not be able to stand up to the massive industrial and superior manpower that the Britannians could field.

AS for military tactics, they porbably could be found within Britannians favour, due to a constantly competing enviroment... and a wide variety of views which could be found within the Empire.

nuclear development possibly could have been developed... and may have limited the world to one war... Would the depression still exist... it is unknown.

However... this is just what I think. More focus on the Britannian evolution than the other world governments.

(Would Charlemange still be crowned the Emperor of the Romans... I wonder...)

Edit: In support with the council of the british kings... A.T.B... I assume is the timeline frame of reference which stands for (Ascension Throne Britannia) or the beginning of the Imperial line. I know I saw this ATB thing somewhere else... magazine exceprt I believe.

Thus 2017 ATB... given with 1960 years or Britannia hier... 20 years average a piece to each emperor.... it could be seen that the timeline appears to work.

[Southern Cross]

I believe, in order for an Irish-esque Britannian *empire* to exist, the Romans would have had to conquer the whole of Britain in order to completely eliminate any sort of *regional* culture clash that could supplement any other conflicts there would be in a united Britannia.

North & South was the main issue behind Roman Britain and Celtic Britain (main reason Britain could not unite as early as other modern "nations" did [differences between Scotland and England]) as North & South was more obviously seen as the central issue in the United States’ Civil War. Believe it or not, a regional culture clash is the worst kind of conflict that can exist within a nation since it divides sociopolitical and even economic aspects affiliated with the regions themselves.

If the Romans did successfully conquer the entirety of Britain and maybe even Ireland for some time, I’m sure they would’ve been unable to completely exterminated the Celtic culture. Since all of it would be under Roman control, at least the Celts living in a Romano-Britain would be equally influenced and/or maltreated by the Roman conquerors, therefore making it slightly easier for a Celtic rebellion to begin and succeed in order to form a loosely united Celtic state. At the very least, the Roman Civil War would have done much to damage the Roman political organization system of Britain allowing the Celts to slowly rise to the point that the Celts gain control of themselves through the system set up by their former oppressors.

Upon full realization of the fall of the Roman Empire and the loosened state tightens following whatever crises that may result directly from it is when I believe they would have likely taken up the name “Britannia”.

A huge problem, however, is pretty much how the Anglo-Saxon invasion would have played out around what we know as the 1000s A.D., because that would a determine a big deal of how exactly Britannia would progress afterwards.

Religion is also a big issue. Apparently the Spanish would’ve still held a grudge against Britain sometime around the discovery of the New World for some reason and difference of religion would have been the only thing to authorize such a conflict. It’s kind of awkward to look at since the majority of Irish people in general were then and are Catholic now. Since we have deformed the history of Britain, it’s quite indistinguishable.

Apparently, whichever religion prevailed in Britannia would have been greatly accepted so that the colonization of the New World would be purely economic and strategic with the majority of the colonists having no reason to dislike Britannia and for no reason for Britannia to dislike the colonies (as long as they impose taxes extremely early on in the colonization game to eliminate most of the problems that escalated the Revolutionary War).

I guess the rest is history from there? I’m sure, though, that there is much, much more to address.

[whitepearl]

I'm just curious to see what you guys think about this.

I initially was under the impression that Britannia controls all of North America because of the fact that they suppressed the American Revolution, thus preventing the USA from ever existing.

After watching Code Geass episode 1 (DVD version), I noticed that when they showed the map of Britannia invading Japan from what we know of as the United States, there were locations that were clearly US locations. Mainly, an "IOWA BASE" for the Britannian Air Force, a "LA BASE" and "SEATTLE BASE" for their Navy (I think) and also some base in Anchorage, Alaska.

Is it safe to assume Britannia, at some point in time, invaded the US and conquered us? Or were they ruling the United States from the beginning and these locations just match by coincidence?

[DJ_RockmanX]

^ I was curious about the same issue, but couldn't quite find enough evidence to hit either theory.

The only idea I can come up with is the loss Britannia suffered in the Geass timeline's Battle of Trafalgar (ep. 9, classroom scene?), which in our time was Britain's greatest naval victory in history. This would support a theory that Britain actually might have relinquished control of the British Isles in the Geass timeline to the EU, and only control the Americas and the rest of their colonies.

Granted I'm no expert in history, fictional or otherwise, so there's bound to be holes in all these different theories until the writers of Geass give us more to chew on.

[Shinoto]

It seems like, America is non exist in this universe. Instead of the Revolution and seperation from Britian. There was never one and they still are Britian Colonies.

[m-san]

Does anyone have info on what the other areas are, especially those pre-Area 11? [that'd be Areas 1-10].

I was thinking of posting this on the Q&A thread but there might not be any info on this at all so I guess it's open to speculation...

Britannians strongly distinguish themselves from "Numbers" which means Area 1 probably isn't the mainland. I wonder where "mainland" is? Real world US, if we base it on the "invasion map" shown in the first few eps?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Does anyone have info on what the other areas are, especially those pre-Area 11? [that'd be Areas 1-10].

I was thinking of posting this on the Q&A thread but there might not be any info on this at all so I guess it's open to speculation...

Britannians strongly distinguish themselves from "Numbers" which means Area 1 probably isn't the mainland. I wonder where "mainland" is? Real world US, if we base it on the "invasion map" shown in the first few eps?

If real history of many countries are any judge, Britannia as a nation is probably still viewing the British Isles as "The lost MotherLand", and is still fighting to gain it back one way or another.:p

[whitepearl]

Well here is the map that I was referring to in an earlier post.

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/387/britanniainvasionmapis3.jpg

Note the numerous bases in the United States.

[Alucard24]

Not only in the US, every circle is a base

[m-san]

There's even a Philippines base :heh:

Does this mean aside from the Big 3 (Brittania, EU, China), only Japan maintained independence prior to Britannia's invasion?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

There's even a Philippines base :heh:

Does this mean aside from the Big 3 (Brittania, EU, China), only Japan maintained independence prior to Britannia's invasion?

Don't forget, an invasion map is fluid because entire nations can vanish and boundaries pushed every which way over a period of time. There is no reason to discount the possibility that there had been many other small countries nearby, but Britannia had "Numeralfied" them prior to the Japan invasion.

There is also the possibility that in the face of overwhelming threats from Britannia, many small nations near China voluntarily joined the Federation in exchange for protection.

Don't forget, Japan was only focused in that map because it was a map made for the invasion of Japan. Only those nations which Britannia suspect would interfere or otherwise have any impact at all against the invasion would be worth displayed on the map.

[Renegade334]

~Removed at Celiss' request~

ROFL at the Tokusatsu reference. :heh:
BTW, the way C.C. refers to those historical figureheads makes me wonder whether she actually didn't meet them at one point or another... O_O

[SoldierOfDarkness]

I wonder, since this "revolution" was crushed, I wonder what happened with the other revolutions (Say france)....

[DJ_RockmanX]

Ep. 07: 4:33-4:36, Suzaku's textbook -

"... of Henry IX, son of the great Elizabeth I...flourished as never before."

I was wondering when they were gonna clear up the whole Tudor line of kings bit. At least we've got an explanation for one of the fictional kings.

Now all they have to do is explain who the fictional Henry X is (probably a direct heir to the throne), and how it is that Edward VI, son of Henry VIII and Jane Seymour, took back the throne and didn't die as a teenager.

I wonder, since this "revolution" was crushed, I wonder what happened with the other revolutions (Say France)....

Ep. 07: 4:33-4:36, Suzaku's textbook -

"While other European countries stagnated assailed by waves of people's revolutions and parliamentarization, England held fast to absolute monarchy, and saw continued development through the reigns of King Henry X and Edward VI thanks to the wealth produced by the New World."

The revolutions in the rest of Europe happened earlier than the one in the American colonies apparently.

[Cal-Reflector]

Made this during my lunch break: The World Map in the Geass Universe, 2010 more or less. Combining some of the opinions voiced here and whatever I could glean from the various languaged wikis and official sites. Orange is Brittania, Blue is the EU, and Green is the Chinese Federation.

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/Cal-Reflector/th_CodeGeassworldmap-1.jpg (http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d191/Cal-Reflector/CodeGeassworldmap-1.jpg)

Still, it is only conjecture, with plenty of blanks filled in on the basis of my own evaluations. Some notable aspects:

1)On the basis of Brittania's extent and prowess, they possess a majority of the scattered island groups in the major oceans. Partly inferred from their ability to invade Japan from numerous directions, implying bases, if not territories, in the Pacific and SE Asia. Also based on the traditional focuses and conflicts of Asia and Europe on their respective continents, and the British navy's superiority, presumably recovered in the two centuries after their defeat Trafalgar. Historical possessions of the real world British Empire are for the most part affiliated with Brittania as well, including Singapore and the Common Wealths.

2)Countries have been left blank, especially Russia, since I couldn't decide whether it'd fall under the EU or Chinese Federation, neither of whom, in real or AU history, it'd likely submit to. Since there's no official confirmation that says the world contains only three political entities (an unlikely scenario itself), I thought Russia might still remain independent but far less influential. Other regions not affiliated with one of the big three include parts of the middle east, central asia, and Africa.

3) The EU is at its present day potential maximum extent, including Turkey and Greenland. The Chinese Federation has expanded into Central Asia and now includes Indonesia and most of SE Asia, notably Vietnam and Thailand. Korea falling under the Chinese Federation was a toss up; it is equally likely that Korea remained independent.

4)African continent: Not parts of the EU or Chinese Federation per se, but under their respective spheres of influence due to colonial pasts and more recent developments of Chinese investment in Africa, including Sudan. The rest of Africa probably remains under developed and poor, leaving little incentive for the Big Three to take them over.

Mentions of conflict between Brittania and the EU at El Alamein, North Africa, implies contest of control over this region. More over, hints that the EU actually has the upperhand implies a greater balance of power than Brittania's extent might imply.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

2)Countries have been left blank, especially Russia, since I couldn't decide whether it'd fall under the EU or Chinese Federation, neither of whom, in real or AU history, it'd likely submit to. Since there's no official confirmation that says the world contains only three political entities (an unlikely scenario itself), I thought Russia might still remain independent but far less influential. Other regions not affiliated with one of the big three include parts of the middle east, central asia, and Africa.

I agree that there is a fundamental difficulty in believing that Russia could have been controlled/taken over by the Chinese. But I find it equally unlikely for a country of that size and rich in resources to not be influential.

Fact of the matter is, Sunrise likely intentionally removed Russia all together from the equation because they wanted to simplify the politics in the show. In particular, they needed an united front in Asia that could stop Britannia dead in its tracks at a stalemate.

If Russians exist in Code Geass, they would be mentioned by now. And if they were too weak to matter, then they would have been absorbed by CF or Britannia already. Anyway, could a weak Russia really be considered Russia?:p

(And look at how big a chunk of land you gave Russia! At least if you fragment the landmass into smaller nations, I could almost believe they were weak and unimportant... Russia as a piece of land is rich in resources, and in such a war-like time there is no way it could have not being invaded by somebody)

[Cal-Reflector]

VCV: I was hoping that you'd pick up the other aspects of the projected world map, as Russia really was just about the hardest nation to project into the world of code geass; a throw in the dark, if you would, for all the reasons you listed.

I know that CG history deviated from ours way early on during the Roman invasion, but for the purposes of filling in the blanks left by Sunrise, using the present real world (which will arrive in story time 2017 in a short ten years) as a basis for projection is inevitable. As such, the possibility of Russia becoming part of the EU or a nonexistant Asian federation is 1/near infinity, or close to zero. In truth, their world might not be that different from ours after all. WW1 or something like it did take place, they do have an advanced state of civilization more or on less on pace from our own, excluding certain things, like invincible giant robots who dominate the battlefield, handheld electro-coil weapons, and a few others.

So for the sake of the discussion, might we scoot the CCCP to the side for a bit a concentrate on the relevant players in CG?:D

[Alucard24]

Great map ! But i fell strange that Britania doesn't have more territories in Africa. After all, in our history, they had the half of it isn't it ?

[Cal-Reflector]

Great map ! But i fell strange that Britania doesn't have more territories in Africa. After all, in our history, they had the half of it isn't it ?

You're right, that might have slipped me. I probably left Brittanian influence largely out of Africa due to the fact that they've only got roughly 1/3 of the world's land mass, so I tried to limit their extent. As with Russia, Africa is largely left out of Code Geass' story, absent of any mention, so deciding who owns what there is a fairly arbitrary process as well. "Interesting" places would include regions of strategic or economic or demographic importance, like Egypt, Turkey, Singapore, and so forth.

[WhiteWings]

Russia as we know it is probably divided primarily between the EU and the Chinese. Africa is probably is a contest ground as much as it had during the last several centuries in our own world.

Where is Britannia's capital anyway? Is it in the british islands (or whatever they call it in Geass) or in the American continents?

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Russia as we know it is probably divided primarily between the EU and the Chinese. Africa is probably is a contest ground as much as it had during the last several centuries in our own world.

Where is Britannia's capital anyway? Is it in the british islands (or whatever they call it in Geass) or in the American continents?

From what I remember, the Royal family (or whoever was ruling Britannia) escaped from the British Isles to America, so their current capital should be America. However we still don't know if they've taken the British Isles back yet.

[Cal-Reflector]

From what I remember, the Royal family (or whoever was ruling Britannia) escaped from the British Isles to America, so their current capital should be America. However we still don't know if they've taken the British Isles back yet.

Well, considering that there was a strong enough democratic movement to cause a popular rebellion in the Isles in the first place, that indicates that any Brittanian attempt to retake the British isles would be against their own people. If the royalty had simply been driven off the isles by an invasion force from the continent, reclaiming the isles would have been a simple military matter. But if your own subjects forced you out in the first place... well, coming back is a lot harder then.

Supposing then that a revolutionary people's government formed on the British Isles after Trafalgar, here are a few possibilities as to what happened next:

1) The Rebellion was conducted by a minority or a slim majority, tyranny, bloodshed and persecution against loyalists results, and the situation is so horrible the general population welcomes back the royalty a few years later from America. Similar events have happened in France, where people elected and reinstated Emperors, preferring a sovereign over Republicanism.

2) For one reason or another, Brittania is occupied by a foreign force, which the populace finds even more irksome than the original royalty. The British royalty returns with a force from America and retakes Brittania.

3) If Brittania was under foreign occupation unwelcomed by the local populace, then they would have had opportunity to retake/regain the British isles by force or by diplomacy during the two world wars, which presumably happened over continental Europe, as a bargaining chip for their military support.

4) The popular uprising forms a government that is widely supported by the populace and they rejoin the EU voluntarily in time. Brittania loses the British Isles forever.

On a side note to the map:
It's not very visible, but Gibraltar belongs to Britannia, which together with the whole of Morocco controls both sides of the Straits of Gibraltar, which is the mouth of the Mediterranean. This would probably a focus of conflict between the EU and Brittania that would extent across North Africa all the way to Egypt and the Middle East, since it is a vital commercial lane and strategic location.

Brittania's main flash point with the Chinese Federation would probably be Singapore, which similarly oversees the vital route between Asia and Europe.

[Cal-Reflector]

I apologize if my enthusiasm for speculating on the world of Geass bothers some people; it just happens to combine two great obsessions of mine: Military affairs and Anime. Here's a Organizational Chart of the Britannian Armed Forces, 2017, that I've drawn up:

Brittanian Army:
13 Corps, encompassing 34 Divisions, plus 9 independent Divisions = 43 Divisions. Regular Army: 916,000 Personnel.
Territorial Army (Reserves and troops from numbered regions): 29 Divisions. 558,000 Personnel.
Army Total Strength: 1,474,000 Men and Women.
Inventory: 9200 Knightmare Frames. 4400 Aircraft (Primarily Rotary/VTOL), 420 Unmanned Aircraft.

Britannian Royal Navy:
440,000 Active, 240,000 Reserves. Total Strength: 680,000.
Inventory: 522 Ships, including 19 Aircraft Carriers (~100,000 tons displacement) and 24 Amphibious Assault Carriers (~45,000 tons displacement)
5200 Manned Aircraft, 360 Unmanned Aircraft.

Britannian Royal Air Force:
424,000 Active Strength, 286,000 Reserve, 212,000 Civilian Employees. Total Military Strength: 710,000.
Inventory: 9600 Manned Aircraft, 840 Unmanned Aircraft.
Britannian Royal Marines:
160,000 Active, 40,000 Reserves: Total Strength: 200,000 Members

Inventory: 780 Knightmare Frames. 1700 Manned Aircraft, 380 Unamnned Aircraft.
Brittanian Military Total Strength: 3,064,000.

Note on number of Knightmare Frames: Desired Amount to maintain force structure; actual number varies since they get destroyed so frequently. Not all regular divisions receive full complement of Knightmares (240). Territorial Divisions receive fewer or no Knightmares at all, depending on their loyalty.

[Alucard24]

I remember they said that the "homeland" is on the american continent.

[Echoes]

This thread is a very interesting read, seems you've really put some serious thought into this. I got nothing to contribute with at the moment, but I'll definitely enjoy lurking through this thread, thanks.

[jdiam]

Hi!~

If anybody's good at reading Japanese, I pulled this from 2ch; apparently it's from the history lesson on the latest DVD. It miiiiight reveal the fate of the British Isles; I can't quite tell.

今のとこDVDの歴史講座まとめるとこんな？

大航海時代のきっかけとなったのは、当時ヨーロッパで進んでいた、錬金術に端を発した、
ストーン・ヘンジ周辺などから発見された賢者の石＝サクラダイトを動力源とするための研究。
サクラダイトは絶対量が少なく、研究の発展が妨げられていたが、
マルコ・ポーロの「世界の記述」にある黄金の国ジパングに大量に存在すると考えられた。

（16世紀位）独身を貫いたエリザベス１世には息子、ヘンリー9世がおり、
父親候補はレスター伯・エセックス伯・ブリタニア公カールなどが有力とされている

皇暦1770年代、アメリカでワシントンの乱勃発
当時のブリタニア公は、ルイ16世に独立支援を請うてフランスに渡った
ベンジャミン・フランクリンに、爵位と植民地アメリカの領地をちらつかせて買収（その後、伯爵となった模様 ）。
大陸軍はヨークタウンで大敗北を喫し、ジョージ・ワシントンが死亡。

皇暦1700年代の末、市民革命時代に入り、フランス革命を経てナポレオンが登場。
トラファルガー海戦に勝利し、ロンドンへ進軍。1807年、女王エリザベス3世はエディンバラに追い込まれ 、
革命派の市民軍に捕縛され王政廃止宣言を迫られる（エディンバラの屈辱）が、
ブリタニア公リカルド・ヴァン・ブリタニアと、その親友であり部下でもあるナイト・オブ・ワン の
リシャール・エクトル卿によって新大陸へと落ち延びた。

皇暦1813年、新大陸に渡ったテューダー朝の血筋が途絶え、
リカルド・ヴァン・ブリタニア1世が即位。ブリタニア年代記が作成され、カエサルのブリテン島 遠征を退け、
部族を独立させたとされるアルウィン1世の即位を元年とした皇暦を制定（皇暦元年時のローマ皇帝はアウグス トクス）。

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

This is fun...:D
First paragraph: The alchemists had long looked for "The philosopher's stone", which could turn lead into gold and grant immortality.
Marco Polo's tales of the far away land of gold, "Zipangu", mentioned how it had vast amounts of such material.
(yep, you guessed it. The PS is Sakuradite, and Zipangu is the old name for Japan.)

Now, I couldn't get the names properly, so all the later paragraph are fuzzy to me... I am just waiting for some REAL translators.:heh:

The 2nd, short, paragraph was on the members of powerful nobles/royals.

The 3rd paragraph was about how America's attempt at independence got crushed, and poor George got killed. (CC was probably there when it all happened, as the sound dramas suggested.)

The 4th was about how the people's revolution in the British Isles affected everything. The Battle of Trafalgar lead to the the Spanish victory, and London was invaded. The Monarchy was abolished in Britain, and the surviving Royals escaped to America.

The 5th was on the current Britannian empire managing to reborn in the Americas.


...Please, someone, help me fill the gaping holes in this joke of a simplified translation!:eyespin: There are many names, and other things I just left out.

[DJ_RockmanX]

The 3rd paragraph was about how America's attempt at independence got crushed, and poor George got killed. (CC was probably there when it all happened, as the sound dramas suggested.)

Poor General Washington, wiped out because the French never came.

The 4th was about how the people's revolution in the British Isles affected everything. The Battle of Trafalgar lead to the the Spanish victory, and London was invaded. The Monarchy was abolished in Britain, and the surviving Royals escaped to America.

Wouldn't the French be somehow present too? Trafalgar was Napoleon's gig with the help of the Spaniards. At any rate this is just the way the scenario played out.

The 5th was on the current Britannian empire managing to reborn in the Americas.

I want more on this paragraph, but I'm now pretty convinced that Britannia was never able to take back the British Isles.

[Cal-Reflector]

My Japanese is proficient, but not perfect (say 85%). I'll identify places I don't get/am murky on and late coming experts can just fill in those spots:

大航海時代のきっかけとなったのは、当時ヨーロッパで進んでいた、錬金術に端を発した、
ストーン・ヘンジ周辺などから発見された賢者の石＝サクラダイトを動力源とするための研究。
サクラダイトは絶対量が少なく、研究の発展が妨げられていたが、
マルコ・ポーロの「世界の記述」にある黄金の国ジパングに大量に存在すると考えられた。

At the advent of the Age of Discovery, Alchemy was moving forward in Europe, driven by the research around the Philsopher's Stone (Sakuradite) to turn it into a source of energy; sakuradite was first discovered near the Stone Henges. The scarcity of sakuradite impeded the research's progress, however, in "The Million" (The Travels of Marco Polo), Marco Polo mentions the land of gold, Japan, where sakuradite existed in abundance.

（16世紀位）独身を貫いたエリザベス１世には息子、ヘンリー9世がおり、
父親候補はレスター伯・エセックス伯・ブリタニア公カールなどが有力とされている

In the 16th century, Elizabeth the 1st who remained single throughout her life had a son, Henry the 9th. The potential fathers--Robert Dudley, 1st Earl of Leicester, Robert Devereux, Earl of Essex, and Duke of Britannia Carl--gain influence and power as a result. (Thus, the Tudors do not end with the Virgin Queen; aside from Duke of Brittania Carl, the other two are real historical figures)

皇暦1770年代、アメリカでワシントンの乱勃発
当時のブリタニア公は、ルイ16世に独立支援を請うてフランスに渡った
ベンジャミン・フランクリンに、爵位と植民地アメリカの領地をちらつかせて買収（その後、伯爵となった模様 ）。
大陸軍はヨークタウンで大敗北を喫し、ジョージ・ワシントンが死亡。

Imperial Calendar, in the 1770s, the Rebellion of Washington takes place in America. The Duke of Brittania at the time bribes Benjamin Franklin with promises of titles and territories in the colonies, who was charged with appealing to Louis XVI for France's assistance in the colonies' war for independence. Thereafter, Benjamin Franklin seems to have become an earl. As a result, the Continental Army suffers a decisive defeat at Yorktown, George Washington dies.

皇暦1700年代の末、市民革命時代に入り、フランス革命を経てナポレオンが登場。
トラファルガー海戦に勝利し、ロンドンへ進軍。1807年、女王エリザベス3世はエディンバラに追い込まれ 、
革命派の市民軍に捕縛され王政廃止宣言を迫られる（エディンバラの屈辱）が、
ブリタニア公リカルド・ヴァン・ブリタニアと、その親友であり部下でもあるナイト・オブ・ワン の
リシャール・エクトル卿によって新大陸へと落ち延びた。

Towards the end of the 18th century, the Western world enters the Age of Revolution, after the French revolutions Napoleon emerges. He wins the Battle of Trafalgar and occupies London. In 1807, Queen Elizabeth the 3rd is chased to Edinburgh. where revolutionary militias arrest her and force her to abdicate and end the monarchy (The Shame of Edinburgh). However, The Duke of Brittania Ricardo von Brittania and his friend and subordinate Knight of One, Sir Richard Hector, sustains the Monarchy in the New World.

皇暦1813年、新大陸に渡ったテューダー朝の血筋が途絶え、
リカルド・ヴァン・ブリタニア1世が即位。ブリタニア年代記が作成され、カエサルのブリテン島 遠征を退け、
部族を独立させたとされるアルウィン1世の即位を元年とした皇暦を制定（皇暦元年時のローマ皇帝はアウグス トクス

Imperial Calendar 1813: The Blood of the Tudors who traveled to the New World comes to an end. Ricardo von Brittania the first ascends to the throne. The Brittanian year is established, with the origin year set as to the ascendancy of the first Celtic King Alwyn (Eowyn?) the First, from the tribes who defeated Caesar's invasion. At the time of Holy Brittanian Calendar's origin year, the Roman Emperor was Augustus, Caesar's successor.

Significant Conclusions:
1. Sakuradite was a driver of alchemy, so from the beginning people recognized the value of the mineral. It'd be a while until the age of science and super conductivity arrived however so I can't see people fighting wars over the substance until well after the industrial age and WWII. The discovery of sakuradite in Japan was a very modern event as well.

2. Benjamin Frankling turns traitor, never delivers the appeal to France, and as a result Britan wins the war over the American colonies. Fascinating.

3. Napoleon did exist (we can assume then, with all the historical figures already present, that most historical figures in the world of Geass would've remained extant), he did win Trafalgar, he did invade England, and succeed in gaining London. The mention of a revolutionary faction implies the existence of a royalist faction, who was probably overpowered by Napoleon's army aiding the revolutionaries. However, considering that Napoleon later crowned himself emperor and disillusioned many people (like Beethoven), the conflict in the British Isles may well have continued.

4. Seems like Ricardo disposed of the Tudors and made himself Emperor. Also surprisingly was the fact that at this point in time, America could not have been all that powerful in population, development, resources, and economy, especially after they lost the British Isles. Which meant that in roughly two centuries Brittania kept whatever territories/colonies/commonwealths from before, gained new ones, and came to prominence that we see them in today.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

4. Seems like Ricardo disposed of the Tudors and made himself Emperor. Also surprisingly was the fact that at this point in time, America could not have been all that powerful in population, development, resources, and economy, especially after they lost the British Isles. Which meant that in roughly two centuries Brittania kept whatever territories/colonies/commonwealths from before, gained new ones, and came to prominence that we see them in today.

Well... perhaps the power of GEASS has something to do with it? C.C. was around during the failed rebellion by George Washington, so there is no reason why people like V.V. and others like him couldn't have meddled in world affairs back then.:)

[Cal-Reflector]

Well... perhaps the power of GEASS has something to do with it? C.C. was around during the failed rebellion by George Washington, so there is no reason why people like V.V. and others like him couldn't have meddled in world affairs back then.:)

Ah yes, I'd completely forgotten about the power of the King. A fledgling Brittania in America, threatened by a victorious Napoleon. I could imagine CC approaching the Emperor then and offering him the power of Geass in return for ???? Her super secret goal or something or another. Or perhaps VV was the one siding with Britannia and CC the one one the side of those opposing the Brittania (as evidenced by her acquaintance with George Washington). Would make sense, I think, seeing how CC later made a contract with Leulouch, although this theory is mere speculation and won't hold up water even I look at it closely.

I believe also that Brittania treats its subjects differently; as in, some nations are numbered colonies, others, like India for example, could have been annexed proper judging by Villeta's status as knight and acceptance into the Pure Blood faction. Since it is an absolute monarchy (no magna carta, no effective parliament), I don't know about self-governing commonwealths that later came into being, but surely not all regions outside of present day North America are numbered regions.

[WhiteWings]

For all we know maybe Napoleon became the unofficial, or even unintended, leader of a united non-Britannia European government entity.

[Isegrim]

Doubtful. The Emporer specifically mentioned 'mob rule' as one of his criticisms of the EU, which would imply a far more democratic society than Nazi rule post Enabling Act. Perhaps the Weimar Republic was overthrown by communism, then went democratic after the collapse of the USSR? Of course a British America might have altered the way the great depression turned out completely and that's assuming the Weimar Republic ever existed (A powerful, strictly monarchist Britain and no America would likely have altered the treaty of Versailles considerably with regards to how the future German government turned out).


Time to disinter this thread, though nobody responded to this statement.
World War I happened, accoding to the last episode with the b/w scenes from the destroyed town of Ypres, the tank and C.C. jumping into a trench with German soldiers (look at the style of their helmets).

Now there are several possibilities (to me):
1. German emperor Friedrich III. didn't die because of cancer, so no Wilhelm II. on the German throne and no arms race. Very doubtful, because Wilhelm II. was one of the most important reasons for WWI, if not the most important.
2. No mutiny by the German navy soldiers during the last weeks of war, so no abdictation of Wilhelm II. and a Germany existing as a parliamentary democracy, like ist was decided by the Reichstag a few days before the mutiny. The famished German crowd forces social changes, like the extension of the welfare state founded by Bismarck with unemployment insurance, health insurance etc. Hindenburg loses the Reichspraesident-election against conservative Wilhelm Marx, and the world economic crisis doesn't lead into Nazi regime.
3. A communist Germany is the least thing I'd expect. The fear of the "red ghost" from the east was way too big, although Germany made the contract of Rapallo with the Russians in 1922. The monarchists and extremists on the right wing were superior in numbers to the communists, instead of a "red revolution" a civil war would have followed.

I assume that WW 2 also happened, but I don't have a good explanation for a little Austrian painter named Adolf's role. Maybe Germany was not devided into FRG and GDR, and Adenauer forces a partnership with the French. Or Germany becomes a republic of councils. Or it's just the same development as in our timeline - German laws codify some kind of equal wealth (at least primary care) to everyone, although realization is differing, instead of the christian democrats the social democrats win the first elections, and in th 50s they were settled much more on the left side than nowadays.

But that's all sophistry, until we know more about Russia's part in Geass history. Thanks for reading ;).

[KrimzonStriker]

New Guy here, just wanted to insert some of my own speculations concerning the current geography of the Code Geass universe. One being that I believe Britannia still holds Egypt currently, as Cornelia mentions a conflict with the EU in El Alamain. The second is to consider whether or not India may have gained independence given Larkshata's prominence, and a mention of the country at the beginning of episode 18

[NewYinzer]

http://images.uncyc.org/ja/9/94/Britannia.png


This is the only "complete" map of Britannia I've seen so far. It appears to detail the composition of the "Areas" very well. The only error is that India is an Area, and has not gained independence. I remember a mentioning of India being a separate country during one of Larkshata's speeches.

Anyway, it seems as though the world is actually remarkably the same for much of its history. Britannia appears to cover the British Empire at its maximum extent during Victoria's reign, plus America, Canada, Mexico, and Japan.

[KrimzonStriker]

Except, we don't know if Birtannia was able to reclaim the British Isles after getting the boot from Napoleon, also I'd venture to guess that the EU may include Russia afterall, seeing as how I cannot in anyway see how the EU can have such an impact in Area 11 in both supporting rebellion there and possibly invading it along with China if the Do-or-Die strategy had been considered as Zero/Lelouch pointed out in Episode 18.

[NewYinzer]

Maybe I missed something, but when did Britannia get expelled from the British Isles by Napoleon?

[KrimzonStriker]

It's an alternate Timeline, run with it man :D

[ashlay]

Maybe I missed something, but when did Britannia get expelled from the British Isles by Napoleon?
History information like this is included in the DVD booklets. I believe Celiss over at Gamefaqs did an english summary of them back around the time episodes 24 and 25 aired.

[Isegrim]

Yinzer, where did you find this map? I'm just curious.
If Britannia numbers the areas in the order they conquered it, they have been pretty active during the last 10 years. Is it because of this strange gates, which the emperor wants to possess?
Another point is this strange temple in the sky, where the emperor is heading quite often (according to Schneizel in one of the last episodes, "he went there again?"). V.V. and Nunnally went there too... maybe some sort of Stargate? Gateway? Cloud Ruler Temple ;) ?

[KrimzonStriker]

Not really, I mean, when did they first adopt the Britannian calendar? Around the 1800's right? That would actually put us somewhere around the year 3000 wouldn't it?

[Koshimizu]

I mean, when did they first adopt the Britannian calendar? Around the 1800's right? That would actually put us somewhere around the year 3000 wouldn't it?
Made the same mistake Suzaku did in his first history class. ;)

The Holy Empire of Britannia was established in A.D.1863. The first Emperor, Ricardo van Britannia the First, set that year as a.t.b. 1813, not a.t.b. 1.
That's because he traced all the way back to the very year their ancestor gained independence from the Roman Empire to be the first year of a.t.b. calendar.
(a.t.b. stands for Ascension Throne Britannia. Or as in kanji, the Imperial Calendar.)

So, A.D.1863 = a.t.b. 1813.
Now it's a.t.b. 2018 in Code Geass universe, aka A.D.2068.

The history of the Holy Empire of Britannia is only 205 years, yet they have 98 Emperors already. Considering there are powerful ones that managed to stay on the throne for a few years, it seems that many Emperors stepped down or were assassinated in a couple of months after ascending throne. O_o

[KrimzonStriker]

Well, it is a survival of the fittest motif in the Imperial Court, I'm not surprised that so many power struggles would have occurred, what I find surprising is how Britannia maintained itself with so many Emperors getting their tickets punched, perhaps they really do have some short of system that makes sudden overthrows the norm? I know as hell they wouldn't use the current Emperor's method, seeing how much damage Lelouch has done :p

[Dann of Thursday]

I thought that Charles was the 99th Emperor? Is there any info as to how long he has been on the throne? I would assume for a while given the ages of his oldest children.

[Strettger]

Just read the whole thing, interesting....
I don't have access to the official media, but I had allways assumed that C.C was there with the American Rebellion, at least briefly before it failed. The equivalent of the great war being Napoleons Conquest of Britain - and Britains subsequent reinforcement from the colonies.

Maybe because I am British myself, but I allways hoped that Britain was the main part, Londonium as the capital :D

[KrimzonStriker]

Possible and not possible, it doesn't say if they recaptured it from the revolutionary's that Napoleon helped. I would imagine.... unlikely given the EU power bloc being there. Though some equivalent of WWI did happen so I'm not sure...

[Koshimizu]

I thought that Charles was the 99th Emperor? Is there any info as to how long he has been on the throne? I would assume for a while given the ages of his oldest children.It's 98th. As told in Ep.6 and on his character bio on the trading cards.
Just read the whole thing, interesting....
I don't have access to the official media, but I had allways assumed that C.C was there with the American Rebellion, at least briefly before it failed.Yes. She calls George Washington "George" and Benjamin Franklin "Ben". And she said Ben is a kind and gentle men. ;)

[Geass]

The history of the Holy Empire of Britannia is only 205 years, yet they have 98 Emperors already. Considering there are powerful ones that managed to stay on the throne for a few years, it seems that many Emperors stepped down or were assassinated in a couple of months after ascending throne. O_oActually, if Ricardo didn't reset the calendar when he rose to the throne, wouldn't it be possible that he didn't reset the ruler count either? It's possible that he counted every ruler before him as Emperor/Empress and that's where the number came from.

[Renegade334]

Well, one must try and consider the average natural lifespan of an Emperor, first...since people didn't enjoy long lives in the past...although I must concede that wealthy nobles, thanks to a better nutrition, were perhaps better off than the populace and enjoyed a longer life expectancy.

As for the political context, if the Empire entertains the secular tradition of pitting heirs against each other to single out the 'perfect' successor, then it's always possible for a couple (or more) of Emperors to die from...let's say...'suspicious causes'. Not all princes, after all, might have enough patience to wait for their father to peacefully die and let them inherit.

As for the Julius Caesar thing I seem to remember (I think it was in one of the DVD commentaries or in the prequel novel -- I'll probably have to ask it on GameFAQs if I have the time to do so) that it was possibly a lie woven by one of the Emperors, in order to embellish the deeds of his bloodline...but I can't say that for sure...I don't think I've kept the reference somewhere.

Another point is this strange temple in the sky, where the emperor is heading quite often (according to Schneizel in one of the last episodes, "he went there again?"). V.V. and Nunnally went there too... maybe some sort of Stargate? Gateway? Cloud Ruler Temple ;) ?The Hall of Twilight is actually on Earth in the Britannian capital, as stated in one of the lineart pics (http://home.swbell.net/hirohiro/images/tasogare01.jpg). The sunset is perpetual and artificial (most probably holograms or painted walls) but it lead a lot of people to believe it was somewhere on Jupiter.

[Dann of Thursday]

The Hall of Twilight is actually on Earth in the Britannian capital, as stated in one of the lineart pics (http://home.swbell.net/hirohiro/images/tasogare01.jpg). The sunset is perpetual and artificial (most probably holograms or painted walls) but it lead a lot of people to believe it was somewhere on Jupiter.

So it is on Earth. Is the slight resemblence to Stonehenge deliberate?

[Renegade334]

Well, the Emperor has been confirmed (by Schneizel) to have a fixation on (Geass-related) ruins so it wouldn't be the innocent of him to mold the Hall into the likes of an ancient temple of Greek or Roman style. Not to mention that it makes for a quite ominous setting that nicely flows with the Emperor's pomp and prestige...

[Dann of Thursday]

The place definately has a creepy feel to it. How do you get there though. It almost looks like ypu would have to fly or teleport there. The place definately looks like the kind of place for a final showdown.

[Renegade334]

Perhaps by an elevator set within that lower platform? Since the Emperor seems to stand between the columns at the far end, I expect the entry and exit point to be on the other end of the Hall, at the lowest part (as the ruler of Britannia would be meant to tower above the lowly aristocrats in an authoritative way).

For the showdown? Certainly. Britannia is where all began and where everything will find an end...if Taniguchi is infatuated with symbolism, then we can expect the Hall of Twilight to be indeed the setting for the finale and the conclusion of a long family tragedy.

[cf_dagger]

Made the same mistake Suzaku did in his first history class. ;)

The Holy Empire of Britannia was established in A.D.1863. The first Emperor, Ricardo van Britannia the First, set that year as a.t.b. 1813, not a.t.b. 1.
That's because he traced all the way back to the very year their ancestor gained independence from the Roman Empire to be the first year of a.t.b. calendar.
(a.t.b. stands for Ascension Throne Britannia. Or as in kanji, the Imperial Calendar.)

So, A.D.1863 = a.t.b. 1813.
Now it's a.t.b. 2018 in Code Geass universe, aka A.D.2068.

O_o

My question is are other nations in CG world also adopt the a.t.b calendar?I think unlikely. EU and Chinese Fed seems don't have a good relationship with Britania. Particulary the EU, the one that already having an armed incident with Britania (in el Alamein, if I'm correct).So EU could be seeing Britania as an "Evil empire bend on world conquest", which is very true.

Maybe other nations still used AD calendar, and the Chinese probably used their own calendar system.

[KrimzonStriker]

The Chinese don't even use the the typical A.D calender in our world, if New Year being in February is any indication ;)

[cf_dagger]

Is there any information about Central and South America?Are they end up as a Britania Area, or still independent?Japan is Area 11, so could be Area 1 to 10 are conquered Latin America nations?

I don't believe there no on going world war in CG world.With this expansionist empire ruled by a Social Darwinism fanatic run amok at the rest of the world (I mean, 8 new Areas in 8 years), EU and Chinese Fed should have make a treaty and gang-rape Britania from ocean to ocean. In real world, just a little bit hardline intervention by USA or Rusia or European Union on other countries, people already feared World War III.

[Strettger]

I don't think even WW2 has happened in this universe, only WW1, the Great war between Brittania and Europe. Also, since Britain was invaded by the Romans in 50BC, wouldn't that make the current a.t.b date -50+2018 = 1968 AD?

[cf_dagger]

I don't think even WW2 has happened in this universe, only WW1, the Great war between Brittania and Europe. Also, since Britain was invaded by the Romans in 50BC, wouldn't that make the current a.t.b date -50+2018 = 1968 AD?

Are you sure CG World war I is between Europe and Britania?I don't remember such kind of information in the series. There is a scene of what seems to be the World War I style trench battle, but I don't recall that war are between Europe vs Britania.

Well, CG WW I could be almost similar to real world WW I just with Britania siding with the Central Powers. I can imagine such an autocratic-anti democracy empire like Britania join the Etente. It just my speculation though, but if Britania siding with German, I'm pretty sure the Etente would be deafeted.

The main reason of Etente victory in WW I is because USA backing them up, with weapon and supply (and latter troops).

[Strettger]

Well the topic of the USA in WW1 and 2 is hotly debated, it's regarded here that the USA merely speeded up an inevitable victory as opposed to the be all and end all of the wars. Britain was developing a nuke in tandem with the Americans, so if the US never came in in WW2 I presume we would have nuked Berlin. Damn it you got me off on a tangent, allways happens.

I'm 90% certain, if China conquored the West coast, you would build up forces, lick your wounds then get it back. Same with Brittania and the British Isles I think, if France conquored the British Isles in the Napoleonic wars, we would come back for the homeland.

[cf_dagger]

Same with Brittania and the British Isles I think, if France conquored the British Isles in the Napoleonic wars, we would come back for the homeland.

I'm among those that believe British Isles never got reconquered by Britania. I prefer this kind of scenario:
1. Napoleon and pro French revolutionary ousted British monarcy and forced them to North America.
2. Napoleon muster his Grand Armee, invaded Rusia, and failed.He then defeated in Liepzig and exiled to Elba.
3. The British revolutionary form a new republic (let's name it Republic of Great Britain, for lack of imagination).
4. Napoleon returned, the European countries and the British Republic join force, form a coalition, and beat Napoleon at Waterloo.
5. Britania expanded into an empire that ruled entire North America, from Atlantic to Pacific, from Artic ocean to Mexican gulf (like that old American Empire/manifest destiny thing)
6. Britania sided with the german at World War I, but refused to make an Invasion to Europe (let say Republic Navy way stronger than Imperial navy). Instead Britania attack the Etente colonies in Caribean, Latin America, and Pacific.
7. Etente some how able to defend themselves and finally beat the Central Powers with an attrition war. The Versailes treaty signed but Britania make separate treaty with the Etente, to the ire of the Germans.
8. The Weimar republic formed and German royalty exiled to Britania. Let say the European got hit by the Rusian revolution and toppling/banishing their monarchs as well, and these nobles escape to Britania (I always wondered why so many un-British/un-American names in Britania, maybe this can explained that).
9. The USSR make an invasion toward Europe (similar with the C&C:red alert)
10. Europe united themselves and form the EU. EU defeated the USSR after long hard fighting (In WW II, Nazi German alone did heavy damage to USSR, when they got the Allied on their backs and the Rusian has full backup of USA & Britain.

[scifijimmy]

To put my two cents worth this thread, there are multiple problems in charting the course of Code Geass history.:upset: The following will attempt to clear some of that up as I have seen in the series.

1. THIS IS PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT!- Acension Throne Brittania(or A.T.B.) does not equal Anno Domini(or A.D.) The date that A.T.B. dates from occurs around 55-54 B.C. in our dating system. Thus the series begins in 1962-3 in our calendar system.

2. The Magna Carta was signed in 1215 A.D. This may not be important I note it because it becamed viewed as a step away from absolute monarchy and the earliest beginnings of Parliament in England within our timeline.

3. In the period of 1642-1651 A.D. The English Civil Wars take place leading ultimately to the nine year removal of the monarchy. Had this gone differently the parliament could have been seriously weakened in its aftermath.

4. American Revolution occurs, but ultimately fails in Code Geass timeline. Known as Washington's Rebellion. First of three identifiable events that are KNOWN to different in Code Geass timeline.(side note: C.C. is said to known Washington and Franklin according to DVD source data.)

5. Battle of Trafalgar results in Brittania's defeat. Second known event differing in Code Geass universe.

6. Ricardo Van Brittannia rises to power and establishes the modern nation of Brittannia in 1813 A.T.B. or 1758 A.D. Third known event in Code Geass

Conclusion: Relatively certain facts are few and far between in the series. From available evidence it would appear that the Isles have been lost, and the Kingdom of of Great Britian ended prematurely to our timeline. The point of divergence has yet to be uncover, but probably lies within the English Civil Wars.

[Cal-Reflector]

To put my two cents worth this thread, there are multiple problems in charting the course of Code Geass history.

Relatively certain facts are few and far between in the series. From available evidence it would appear that the Isles have been lost, and the Kingdom of of Great Britian ended prematurely to our timeline. The point of divergence has yet to be uncover, but probably lies within the English Civil Wars.

I've been working on a fic which deals heavily with the alternate history of Britannia: (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3816236/1/Code_Geass_Lelouch_of_Brittania) I've also posted in this thread before. In the end I agree with the above that the concrete dates given as well as evidence within the show are too few to establish a clear picture of what takes place in the world for most of the 19th, 20th, and 21st centuries. This of course opens the field up to speculation, which is fun, which is what we're doing now.

For the purposes of my story, I chose the principle that unless stated or shown within the anime, the history of the World of Code Geass differs as little as possible from that of our world's. Thus far, the only place where this has been a factor in my story is when Darlton gives Lelouch a military lesson, using Rommel's ultimate defeat at the hands of the British in North Africa as an example.

Glad to see people are using this thread again.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Hey Cal. Been a while.

If possible, could you gather up all the history related DVD material into a single post? I wanna try reconstructing the report that got lost in my last hard drive crash.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Thus far, the only place where this has been a factor in my story is when Darlton gives Lelouch a military lesson, using Rommel's ultimate defeat at the hands of the British in North Africa as an example.

From recent information, it was known that Britannia had been stuck in a stalemate against Europe for some time, and that's where most of Britannia's best Knights were occupied during the first season (And thus unavailable against Zero).

It was mentioned that a "Genius Commander" of Europe was responsible at halting Brittania's superior forces. However there would not be sufficient time in the 2nd season to elaborate on it, hence we may never know who this genius is.

Still, one fan theory was that the commander might in fact BE Rommel, born a few decades late. Let's face it, he lost the war in Africa purely because his supply lines failed him. He was also one of the most respected Commanders in the entire WWII by both sides. If given the resources of the entire Europe, he would have the means to defend against a Britannian assault.

[DJ_RockmanX]

The calendar for Ascension Throne Britannia is about six decades ahead of Anno Domini right? That would place the plot of Code Geass in the proximity of WWII, and would somewhat explain C.C.'s WWI flashbacks.

[Onizuka-GTO]

can't believe Nelson lost against Napoleon!My naval hero? the goddammn naval genius, who's legend rules the seven seas? Where at every anniversary of the famous battle, ships from all the Navies of the World come to pay their respects? (Even the Japanese!)

dammn you CG! dammn you all!

*sobs*

[DJ_RockmanX]

can't believe Nelson lost against Napoleon!My naval hero? the goddammn naval genius, who's legend rules the seven seas?

dammn you CG! dammn you all!

*sobs*

Ugh... I can't remember what I said for this one... I had an explanation for it...

Also, can someone get me a list of commanders from Nazi Germany and/or the Allied continental forces (basically the Allies minus Britain)? I want to start digging into the mystery genius commander that has kept Britannia at bay on the European front since the WWII era.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

can't believe Nelson lost against Napoleon!My naval hero? the goddammn naval genius, who's legend rules the seven seas? Where at every anniversary of the famous battle, ships from all the Navies of the World come to pay their respects? (Even the Japanese!)

dammn you CG! dammn you all!

*sobs*

Well, to be honest, that battle was never going to be easy for the British. The Victory wouldn't be legendary if it wasn't hard-fought. Had Admiral Villeneuve decided to follow his instincts of preparing a counter against a direct assault, things could have turned out differently.
Nelson could have lost; that's what makes his victory more satisfying.

[Cal-Reflector]

Hey Cal. Been a while.

If possible, could you gather up all the history related DVD material into a single post? I wanna try reconstructing the report that got lost in my last hard drive crash.

Long time no see.

Everything should be on this forum thread, it is the only reference that I come back to.

Scifijimmy: You bring up an important point by pointing out that Ascension Throne Brittania does not equal Anno Domini and thus the series begins in... somewhere between the 1960s and 1970s, our time. Up until now I've been thinking that Code Geass was roughly our world's present time plus a decade, give a few years. That makes the existing tech gap between the two easier to swallow.

Vallen Chaos: Oh boy. I like Rommel, I know he has a generally good reputation amongst those interested in Japan. I doubt that he's the one though, because I think even if the producers were tempted they wouldn't risk the controversy of citing him as a character in the show (George Washington is not controversial, by comparison).

If we followed the time line strictly, he'd also be past his 70s by the time Code Geass takes place. Of course, delay his birth a few decades and it'd work just fine, it might not even be necessary. In the lottery chance that the show confirms that he is the one, I would laugh out loud.

DJ_RockmanX: Nazi Germany had many reputable commanders on air, land, and sea, you can find them all on wikipedia.

Though it'd be cool, the idea that historical figures in 2017 A.T.B correspond to those existing in our world in A.D. 1967 is a very long-shot. Otherwise, where was Yamamoto Isoroku when Britannia invaded Japan? I think there are just too many variables for the parallels to be that precise.

About the only thing we can be sure of is this: the producers didn't think things through nearly as much as we are doing now.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Everything should be on this forum thread, it is the only reference that I come back to.

Dammit. lol.

I MUST recover my hard drive data somehow. Rewriting what I put in there is going to be hell otherwise.

Nazi Germany had many reputable commanders on air, land, and sea, you can find them all on wikipedia.

Meh. I'm lazy. :p

Though it'd be cool, the idea that historical figures in 2017 A.T.B correspond to those existing in our world in A.D. 1967 is a very long-shot. Otherwise, where was Yamamoto Isoroku when Britannia invaded Japan? I think there are just too many variables for the parallels to be that precise.

The Pacific Theater is changed right from the start of Code Geass. That part of WWII is gonna be hell to figure out. :heh:

About the only thing we can be sure of is this: the producers didn't think things through nearly as much as we are doing now.

Let's write it for them and send them what we've got. :D

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Vallen Chaos: Oh boy. I like Rommel, I know he has a generally good reputation amongst those interested in Japan. I doubt that he's the one though, because I think even if the producers were tempted they wouldn't risk the controversy of citing him as a character in the show (George Washington is not controversial, by comparison).

I am not sure what you really mean by controversies? :confused:

I guess you mean having an actual historical figure physically present in the story rather than being mentioned in casual conversation?

All things considered, the historical view of Rommel had been both kind and positive. While the current Code Geass view of the European Commander was flattering too. There really isn't much to complain about if he was Rommel.
The only thing Code Geass avoided in the story was the mention of the Japanese Royal family. They were written-out all together because the Japanese audience wouldn't like to hear that bad things had happened to them.

[Cal-Reflector]

I am not sure what you really mean by controversies?

Japan is liberal in what they allow to be published in entertainment (See: anime that has lots of fan service, dating games, etc); this liberalism extends to politically sensitive material, historical and contemporary. I've read the works of at least one author who told the story of WW2 from the perspective of the German armed forces as the protagonists. Such a work would be banned in Germany, where the swastika is removed from games like Call of Duty in compliance with the law.

The producers probably intended Code Geass to be licensed across the globe. Some regions are more sensitive than others regarding particular instances and personalities in history. Rommel, as much as I like him, remains a controversial figure for his role in WW2 to many. Thus mentioning him in Code Geass may seem like a risk not worth the contribution made to the story.

If they do it'd be pretty awesome, I just don't think its likely.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Bringing this over from the image thread:

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/2952/snapshot20080408031201ut5.th.png (http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20080408031201ut5.png)

I think it's safe to say it goes something like this:

Blue = Holy Britannian Empire

Green = Chinese Federation

Yellow = European Union (of sorts)

Light Blue = No Man's Land Australia

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Japan is liberal in what they allow to be published in entertainment (See: anime that has lots of fan service, dating games, etc); this liberalism extends to politically sensitive material, historical and contemporary. I've read the works of at least one author who told the story of WW2 from the perspective of the German armed forces as the protagonists. Such a work would be banned in Germany, where the swastika is removed from games like Call of Duty in compliance with the law.

The producers probably intended Code Geass to be licensed across the globe. Some regions are more sensitive than others regarding particular instances and personalities in history. Rommel, as much as I like him, remains a controversial figure for his role in WW2 to many. Thus mentioning him in Code Geass may seem like a risk not worth the contribution made to the story.

If they do it'd be pretty awesome, I just don't think its likely.

You are assuming Germany as we know it in WWII even exists.:)

For all we know, under current trends, the Nazi party was never born because WWI turned out differently. Without association to that tarnished symbol or the mustached man, a portrayal of Rommel as he could have been, using his skills to protect the innocent, would be awesame as you said.

Oh, and if you are worried about his outfit, that's probably not an issue. Following existing Code Geass fashion trends, if Rommel was to appear, he would likely wear something approaching old school Prussian uniforms and the ornamental Pickelhaube helmet.
The Code Geass universe assumes that no matter your political system, your outfit must look like it is 200 years older than it is suppose to be.:heh:

[DJ_RockmanX]

You are assuming Germany as we know it in WWII even exists.:)

For all we know, under current trends, the Nazi party was never born because WWI turned out differently. Without association to that tarnished symbol or the mustached man, a portrayal of Rommel as he could have been, using his skills to protect the innocent, would be awesame as you said.

I remember at least that I wrote that Europe would have been unified at the point in history of Trafalgar following the period of revolutions, likely under Napoleon or someone similar at least. The fact that Russia is included in the EU helps this theory out a bit too (something I didn't know when I wrote my report back a year ago).

And that depiction of Rommel sounds pretty badass.

Oh, and if you are worried about his outfit, that's probably not an issue. Following existing Code Geass fashion trends, if Rommel was to appear, he would likely wear something approaching old school Prussian uniforms and the ornamental Pickelhaube helmet.

Oh god. :heh:

The Code Geass universe assumes that no matter your political system, your outfit must look like it is 200 years older than it is suppose to be.:heh:

China's worse. They're back to Romance of the Three Kingdoms outfits.

Not that I mind. They're awesome looking costume designs. :D

[Onizuka-GTO]

Well, we know the "Great War" happened and that the Mark I Tank was invented and deployed. We also know that whatever enemy these tanks were against, wore helmets similar to German "Huns".

Now we could "assume" it's in Europe and that the Tanks belong to Britannica forces, but if they were forced out of the British Isle, why would they be fighting in Europe against German looking troops?

for all we know...the Great War could be taking place on the American continent.
nothing yet has been concluded.
As for Australia as a "no-mans" land. If the Britannica wanted to expand in the pacific arena i don't see why they would not explore Australasia region.

Even if Australia might or might not have sakuranite deposit, land is land, and the more populated land for a nation means more man power for enforcement and conquest.

[DJ_RockmanX]

Well, we know the "Great War" happened and that the Mark I Tank was invented and deployed. We also know that whatever enemy these tanks were against, wore helmets similar to German "Huns".

Now we could "assume" it's in Europe and that the Tanks belong to Britannica forces, but if they were forced out of the British Isle, why would they be fighting in Europe against German looking troops?

for all we know...the Great War could be taking place on the American continent.
nothing yet has been concluded.

Yeah I never figured this part out yet. Perhaps it was a reclamation attempt by Britannia?

I dunno.

As for Australia as a "no-mans" land. If the Britannica wanted to expand in the pacific arena i don't see why they would not explore Australasia region.

Even if Australia might or might not have sakuranite deposit, land is land, and the more populated land for a nation means more man power for enforcement and conquest.

I just say No Man's Land because it's a different color and seemingly outside of the political arena of the three powers. This would be why Mao wanted to take C.C. home to a nice house down under - because it's a neutral zone or an area that has been set aside as untouchable.

I also used the term No Man's Land just because we're in our own limbo trying to figure everything out, and I could be completely off the mark. :p

[Blaat]

Perhaps Australia is like the current Australia e.g. independent but acknowledges the English royal house as the head of state. Although why Britannia would allow such a thing to happen is anyone's guess.

Interestingly enough if you compare it to this picture (posted earlier in the thread):
http://www.videoscoop.ch/geass.jpg
it means that the Chinese Federation allowed Britannia to use their bases in the Philippines. :p

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Perhaps Australia is like the current Australia e.g. independent but acknowledges the English royal house as the head of state. Although why Britannia would allow such a thing to happen is anyone's guess.

Interestingly enough if you compare it to this picture (posted earlier in the thread):
http://www.videoscoop.ch/geass.jpg
it means that the Chinese Federation allowed Britannia to use their bases in the Philippines. :p

Well, it HAS been quite a few years since that invasion. Perhaps the CF had beaten back Britannian forces during that period?:heh:

[Marioshinobi]

F***ing Kangaroo's. I Knew they would betray us somehow.

Considering Chinese and Brittania relationships - China probably wanted Japan crushed. Having obviously lacked their own power(Whatever reason that could be ) They must have allowed them to stay in preparation to take the small island.

The Land itself may be mixed in terms of who owns it, such as a Brittania base belongs there but it still is within the Federation.

Concerning the Chinese Fed, is it a more King type leadership such as Brittania who simply has a king and everything belongs to him. Or does the Federation consist of several countries having come together under one unified area?

If thats the case then the Island's president/leader/whatever had allowed Brittanian bases to be made? There doesn't seem to be a large scale war between Chinese and Brittania so it wouldn't have been that dangerous, even if it's rather...pushing the boundary.

They may also be rather neutral towards one another, considering the visit in R2 of a Chinese Leader.

[Narona]

Concerning the Chinese Fed, is it a more King type leadership such as Brittania who simply has a king and everything belongs to him. Or does the Federation consist of several countries having come together under one unified area?

If thats the case then the Island's president/leader/whatever had allowed Brittanian bases to be made? There doesn't seem to be a large scale war between Chinese and Brittania so it wouldn't have been that dangerous, even if it's rather...pushing the boundary.

They may also be rather neutral towards one another, considering the visit in R2 of a Chinese Leader.

Form the other thread :

Tenshi (Japanese pronounciation of 天子, and alternative name for Chinese Emperor. Usually used for future emperors)

Empress ruling the Chinese Federation.
However, the beauracrats have the actual political powers, and she is nothing but a symbolic figure.
The staff set her age to around 12 years old, but made her look even younger.
Her image is a character that's carried away in the course of history, despite her will.
CLAMP designed her garments very uniquely, and we drew her sitting down since likely that's what she'll be doing most of her appearance.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1517042&postcount=5249

The leader during the first war was the father of the current Chinese Emperor, i suppose. Or maybe, it was already the Bureaucrats :confused:.

[yuso999]

what happend with the dutch/france/spain colonial global empire?

The dutch had these territories

the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia)
1605 until 1962, when it was transferred to Indonesia following United States pressure.

Dutch Ceylon (Sri Lanka)
1602 until 1796 the British seized control of the Dutch positions.

Formosa (Taiwan)
1624 until 1662

Malacca
(1641 until 1824) it was turned over to the British in 1806, during the Napoleonic wars. It was returned to the United Kingdom of the Netherlands in 1816. It was then ceded to the British in the Anglo-Dutch Treaty of 1824.

South Africa
In 1652 the Dutch East India Company established a refuelling station at the Cape of Good Hope, situated half-way between the Dutch East Indies and the Dutch West Indies. Great Britain seized the colony in 1797 during the wars of the First Coalition (in which the Netherlands were allied with revolutionary France),

New Netherland
New Netherland comprised the areas of the north east Atlantic seaboard of the present-day United States that were visited by Dutch explorers and later settled and taken over by the Dutch West India Company. The settlements were initially located on the Hudson River: Fort Nassau (1614–7) in present-day Albany (later resettled as Fort Orange in 1624), and New Amsterdam, founded in 1625 on Manhattan Island. New Netherland reached its maximum size after the Dutch absorbed the Swedish settlement of Fort Christina in 1655, thereby ending the North American colony of New Sweden. New Netherland itself formally ended in 1674 after the Third Anglo-Dutch War: Dutch settlements passed to the English crown and New Amsterdam was renamed New York.

Suriname
Captured by the Dutch from the English during the Second Anglo-Dutch War, Suriname and its valuable sugar plantations formally passed into Dutch hands in return for New Netherland with the signing of the Treaty of Westminster in 1674. It remained an overseas Dutch territory until independence was granted in 1975.

Guyana
In the 16th century European settlers first arrived in this area of north South America, the Netherlands being the fastest to claim the land. Around 1600 was the first trade route established by the Dutch. Eventually the Netherlands planted three colonies to further mark the territory under the Netherlands rule; Essequibo (1616), Berbice (1627), and Demerara (1752). The British occupied Guyana in the late 18th century. The Netherlands ceded Guyana to the United Kingdom in (1814).

Virgin Islands
First settled by the Dutch in 1648, but annexed by England in 1672, later to be renamed the British Virgin Islands.

And then we have glorious revolution
The Glorious Revolution, also called the Revolution of 1688, was the overthrow of King James II of England (VII of Scotland) in 1688 by a union of Parliamentarians and the Dutch stadtholder William III of Orange-Nassau (William of Orange), who as a result ascended the English throne as William III of England. It is sometimes called the Bloodless Revolution, but this is Anglocentric as it ignores the three major battles in Ireland and serious fighting in Scotland. Even in England it was not completely bloodless, since there were two significant clashes between the two armies, plus anti-Catholic riots in several towns. The expression "Glorious Revolution" was first used by John Hampden in the autumn of 1689, and is an expression that is still used by the Westminster Parliament.

The Revolution is closely tied in with the events of the War of the Grand Alliance on mainland Europe, and may be seen as the last successful invasion of England. It can be argued that James's overthrow began modern English parliamentary democracy: never again would the monarch hold absolute power, and the Bill of Rights became one of the most important documents in the political history of Britain. The deposition of the Roman Catholic James II ended any chance of Catholicism becoming re-established in England, and also led to limited toleration for nonconformist Protestants—it would be some time before they had full political rights. In the case of Catholics, however, it was disastrous both socially and politically. Catholics were denied the right to vote and sit in the Westminster Parliament for over 100 years after this. They were also denied commissions in the British army and the monarch was forbidden to be Catholic or marry a Catholic, thus ensuring the Protestant succession.

And we have the dutch-anglo wars
They where all sea-wars
The first war (1652-1654)
The second war (1665-1667)
The third war (1672-1674)
The fourth war (1780-1784)

so where are the empires of the dutch/france/spain?

[KrimzonStriker]

They got creamed by the rising powers of Britannia and China and then banded together to form the EU? :confused:

[Cal-Reflector]

In regards to the debate of who owns what... again:

It appears that the only thing relatively safe to say is this: Britannia owns North and South America. Now, one of the few figures Code Geass grants us is that the Empire owns a third of the world's land mass. If we are to take this statement at face value, then according to the following they should hold something extra aside from the Americas... in fact, Australia and the Oceana's (categorized as one continent) would fit quite well.

http://www.worldatlas.com/geoquiz/thelist.htm

India, plus a few countries from the Middle East or Africa would work out as well. Once again, calculated under the presumption that Britannia owns 33% of the world's land surface area.

Also, it appears more and more that the situation in the World of CG is not merely "Britannia versus the world." That's what I thought it was, but it seems possible, even likely, that there are countries who at different times may choose to align themselves with the Empire, if not as a formal ally or puppet state.

The graphic showing Britannia invading Japan from SE Asia has to be accounted for since it appears in the show. I thought of the possibility that the Chinese Federation is a looser collection that we imagined, but if the magazine says "Ruled by the Empress" then I suppose that's not the case. Why's it called a federation when it's nominally ruled by a monarch? That makes no sense to me.

On a side note: In my fanfic, I set Kewell's parents as immigrants from Australia (and Villeta's from India), for the simple reason that Kewell is the name of an Australian soccer player. I also had Kewell go nuts when Jeremiah lumped him together with New Zealanders.

[JMvS]

There are a lot of problems with the Code Geass timeline:

For me the main one arise from the fact that japanese easily placate their rather constant population history over the last thousands years on lands who witnessed complex population changes during the same interval:

As far as I know, since the creation of Yamato there has been no significant allogenous population movement in the japanese archipelago apart for the colonisation of northern Honshu and Hokkaido.

But in Europe, the british isles were never such a closed archipelago:

-the main postulate of the serie: the a.t.b calendar, involve repeling of the roman invasion of Britain by Julius Caius Caesar (please note that this was more a military expedition than a conquest, as Britain was integrated in the Empire more than a century later), and establishment of a strong, continuous CELTIC dynasty.

-as a consequence, the ENGLISH langage would not exist (use of the roman alphabet is not unlikely), because it derived of the invasion and migration of the Angle and Saxons people, germanic people who replaced and cornered the Britons to Wales and Cornwals, with later influences of the danish (viking) conqueror, and finally their "french" cultured Normands siblings. Would a proud, strong and powerfull ruler adopt the langage of barbarious immigrant?

If we go that far in history, even if the events in the rest of Europe were similar to our history, the british isles would be so different that making parallel with real persons and events does not make any sense.

Now if they had made the Britannians show a clear celtic culture and langage this would have made better sense!

[KrimzonStriker]

The graphic showing Britannia invading Japan from SE Asia has to be accounted for since it appears in the show. I thought of the possibility that the Chinese Federation is a looser collection that we imagined, but if the magazine says "Ruled by the Empress" then I suppose that's not the case. Why's it called a federation when it's nominally ruled by a monarch? That makes no sense to me.

She's basically just a puppet to be ruled by a bunch of bueracrats, it's still very possible that the function as a Federation in practice at the very least >_>

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

There are a lot of problems with the Code Geass timeline:

For me the main one arise from the fact that japanese easily placate their rather constant population history over the last thousands years on lands who witnessed complex population changes during the same interval:

As far as I know, since the creation of Yamato there has been no significant allogenous population movement in the japanese archipelago apart for the colonisation of northern Honshu and Hokkaido.

But in Europe, the british isles were never such a closed archipelago:

-the main postulate of the serie: the a.t.b calendar, involve repeling of the roman invasion of Britain by Julius Caius Caesar (please note that this was more a military expedition than a conquest, as Britain was integrated in the Empire more than a century later), and establishment of a strong, continuous CELTIC dynasty.

-as a consequence, the ENGLISH langage would not exist (use of the roman alphabet is not unlikely), because it derived of the invasion and migration of the Angle and Saxons people, germanic people who replaced and cornered the Britons to Wales and Cornwals, with later influences of the danish (viking) conqueror, and finally their "french" cultured Normands siblings. Would a proud, strong and powerfull ruler adopt the langage of barbarious immigrant?

If we go that far in history, even if the events in the rest of Europe were similar to our history, the british isles would be so different that making parallel with real persons and events does not make any sense.

Now if they had made the Britannians show a clear celtic culture and langage this would have made better sense!

That really depends on what view of sci-fi History you follow. There are two views in fiction:
1. If you change absolutely anything, no matter how minor, then everything changes due to chaos theory. This view is not used in fiction often because it isn't useful for story telling. An unrecognizable world defeats the purpose of setting the story in an alternate version of reality.

2. If you change things, History will try to fix itself and try to stay as close to the original world as possible. This is the common method employed in most fiction, allowing for the "what if" scenarios and permit certain things like recognizable languages and birth of famous people to remain relatively unchanged. This is what the Geass universe used.

[Strettger]

With regards to the a previous posters comments on the Dutch, French and German Empires, it is easily explainable.

The British lost Trafalgar. France Won. The French Empire is Europe, the European motherlands that founded the Empires were annexed by mainland France.
The EU is most likely the succesor state to the French Empire, Napoleon may have waitied till Britian was conquored before pursuing Russia, but died before he could. Perhaps his succesor succeded in annexing Russia.

Now here is something interesting, in Shirleys history book we clearly see the word England, land of the Angles. It existed - which is quite significant. Either Britian allowed colonists in to work the farms and as cheap labour, or while the Romans were reppeled, they weren't so successful against subsequent invasions.

With regards to the callender and technology..... is it possible that when Rome collapsed Brittania took on the role of the Empire, it's people accepting and continuing the Roman civilisation that fell. My main reason for saying this is it is the "Holy Brittanian Empire", perhaps a tribute to it and the "Holy Roman Empire of Germany". From this, perhaps the Romans withdrew from Britian to deal with internal problems, and the Natives instead of descending into anarchy, took off where the Romans left off.

With regards to Trafalgar o7
Perhaps Nelson never existed in this universe. [feels dirty for saying that].

[KrimzonStriker]

With regards to the a previous posters comments on the Dutch, French and German Empires, it is easily explainable.

The British lost Trafalgar. France Won. The French Empire is Europe, the European motherlands that founded the Empires were annexed by mainland France.
The EU is most likely the succesor state to the French Empire, Napoleon may have waitied till Britian was conquored before pursuing Russia, but died before he could. Perhaps his succesor succeded in annexing Russia.

Now here is something interesting, in Shirleys history book we clearly see the word England, land of the Angles. It existed - which is quite significant. Either Britian allowed colonists in to work the farms and as cheap labour, or while the Romans were reppeled, they weren't so successful against subsequent invasions.

With regards to the callender and technology..... is it possible that when Rome collapsed Brittania took on the role of the Empire, it's people accepting and continuing the Roman civilisation that fell. My main reason for saying this is it is the "Holy Brittanian Empire", perhaps a tribute to it and the "Holy Roman Empire of Germany". From this, perhaps the Romans withdrew from Britian to deal with internal problems, and the Natives instead of descending into anarchy, took off where the Romans left off.

With regards to Trafalgar o7
Perhaps Nelson never existed in this universe. [feels dirty for saying that].

Check that, it was stated that Napoleon still ended up losing the battle of Waterloo, plus WWI did happen according to C.C and the German like helmet on the solider who shot her seem to indicate that Germany was at least still around. I'll take it by how it's name runs parallel to our own EU, that the fractious European states finally managed to join together and form the EU instead of one country dominating over the others.

[Strettger]

Check that, it was stated that Napoleon still ended up losing the battle of Waterloo, plus WWI did happen according to C.C and the German like helmet on the solider who shot her seem to indicate that Germany was at least still around. I'll take it by how it's name runs parallel to our own EU, that the fractious European states finally managed to join together and form the EU instead of one country dominating over the others.

Hang on, I thought that the Grande Armee pushed Elizabeth back to Edinburgh where she was "surrounded by the revolutionaries" and presumably surredered/was executed. And that Napoleon never left Brittian as he was dead before he left for an unexplained reason. Hinted at some act of retribution by British loyalists.

WW1, yes, it happened. My beleif I have typed a few times, but I don;t have it bookmarked.

Short version is Elizabeth beaten, Brittania established in North America. Brittania soaks up the other European colonial assets in the Americas as they have lost logistics support from their Motherlands - conquored by France.
Brittania starts analysing where they buggered up and builds an armada - WW1 begins when the Brittanian Armada begins its war of reclaimation of it's motherland.
Brittania wins the motherland due to superior technology, and decides to capatalise on its early victory and does something akin to Operation Overlord - a full scale invasion of mainland Europe.
French Empire starts to crumble, old kingdoms start claiming independance in hopes of being left out of the conflict, Brittania ignores this. Fragmented European kingdoms form the EU, a defensive pact against Brittania and a war of attrition is the Great war as the EU pushes Brittania out of mainland Europe and onto Britian.

Cold War continues until present day.

Thats my thought on it :D

[KrimzonStriker]

Nope, fairly sure it was stated that he ended up losing the Battle of Waterloo and then got poisoned (hinted at being Elizabeth III because of a message in her will saying she never forgets old insults or something)

And where exactly was Germany in during all this exactly? :confused:

[Strettger]

Nope, fairly sure it was stated that he ended up losing the Battle of Waterloo and then got poisoned (hinted at being Elizabeth III because of a message in her will saying she never forgets old insults or something)

And where exactly was Germany in during all this exactly? :confused:

In my one.... well it never exactly existed in a recognisable form but was pre Bismark so Prussia would have been one of the parts of the EU as opposed to Germany by my interpretation.

My main source of historical information (Wikipedia) tells me it was Prussia that was one of the Seventh coalition as opposed to Germany aswell....

My history is.... better than most but by no means infallable I grant you that.

[KrimzonStriker]

I know about Prussia and its involvement during the Napoleonic Wars, I'm just saying that with the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo it is still very possible for Germany to have come about under Bismark by the time WWI broke out in the Code Geass universe right?

[Strettger]

I know about Prussia and its involvement during the Napoleonic Wars, I'm just saying that with the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo it is still very possible for Germany to have come about under Bismark by the time WWI broke out in the Code Geass universe right?

Could be, my thought was that after French Victory it would have stayed that way for the century or so it took for Brittania to be ready for its onslaught. It's only one possible view. Japan got annexed in 1 month - pretty damned fast by anyones standards. Now take Britain, if Brittania made landfall in ironclads and had tanks then they could possibly have taken Britian as fast as it took the tanks to move from Landfall to the south.

Thats good motivation for Prussians and Spaniads to start revolting against French rule, that the end of France is nigh and perhaps Brittania would recognise this. If Brittania didn't, and perhaps started annexing Spain and Prussia..... the EU as an defence agreement makes sense. The French might have been netter than the Brittanians and at least way, more power to the former nations of Europe.

Are you certain that Waterloo happened at all in Geass?

[Var]

In my one.... well it never exactly existed in a recognisable form but was pre Bismark so Prussia would have been one of the parts of the EU as opposed to Germany by my interpretation.

My main source of historical information (Wikipedia) tells me it was Prussia that was one of the Seventh coalition as opposed to Germany aswell....

My history is.... better than most but by no means infallable I grant you that.

I know about Prussia and its involvement during the Napoleonic Wars, I'm just saying that with the defeat of Napoleon at Waterloo it is still very possible for Germany to have come about under Bismark by the time WWI broke out in the Code Geass universe right?

Prussia was a doomed country... always. The only thing that's really changed in the history of Europe is that there is no Britain, and subsequently, there are no backdoor treaties to fuel a first world war. There is, however, still a very recognizable threat in the Ottoman Empire, as there's no hint of it not coming into existance, and would have been a solid catalyst for a united Europe.

[ashlay]

Could be, my thought was that after French Victory it would have stayed that way for the century or so it took for Brittania to be ready for its onslaught. It's only one possible view. Japan got annexed in 1 month - pretty damned fast by anyones standards. Now take Britain, if Brittania made landfall in ironclads and had tanks then they could possibly have taken Britian as fast as it took the tanks to move from Landfall to the south.

Thats good motivation for Prussians and Spaniads to start revolting against French rule, that the end of France is nigh and perhaps Brittania would recognise this. If Brittania didn't, and perhaps started annexing Spain and Prussia..... the EU as an defence agreement makes sense. The French might have been netter than the Brittanians and at least way, more power to the former nations of Europe.

Are you certain that Waterloo happened at all in Geass?
Yeah, Waterloo is mentioned in the geass history lessons, though in this version there's rumors Britannia had Napoleon was assassinated.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5386/10wi3.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10wi3.jpg)

1. Elizabeth III and her followers established a capital on the east coast of the new continent.
2. Elizabeth III died without leaving any heirs; she was supposed to have chosen her successor from one of her blood relations, but on her dying bed she nominated her lover, Ricardo Van Britannia I instead. She is therefore famous for being "The Queen who loved throughout her stormy life."
3. Napoleon died on his way back to France after the Waterloo defeat; although it was never proven, it is rumoured that assassins poisoned his food as per Elizabeth III's will: her last words included the famous line "I do not forget slights to my honour."

credit to Celiss Galvea over at Gamefaqs

[DJ_RockmanX]

Yeah, Waterloo is mentioned in the geass history lessons, though in this version there's rumors Britannia had Napoleon was assassinated by Britannia.

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/5386/10wi3.th.jpg (http://img514.imageshack.us/my.php?image=10wi3.jpg)

This helps a bunch. It confirms that Napoleon is the one that unified Europe and is the one in power during the Battle of Trafalgar and when Britannia is run out of the British Isles. I take it that his Russian campaign was actually successful in this timeline, but the writers keep him from overstepping his timeframe in history by assassinating him and preserving his defeat at Waterloo.

Interesting...

Oh yeah. If possible, I still need someone to compile all of the DVD info into a single post. :D

[KrimzonStriker]

I suppose the coalition that eventually defeated Napoleon may have stuck together in the end and been the predecessor to the EU? :confused:

[DJ_RockmanX]

Stuck together because Britannia was the oppressive force in Europe at the time of the European revolutions. Britannia was the single absolute monarchy remaining, touting itself as superior to those on the continent, declaring its absolute rule as a means of insuring a stable and prosperous country. Meanwhile continental Europe underwent a bloody progressive era along the lines of the French Revolution. Napoleon comes into power at the end of this era of revolutions, and is able to unify continental Europe, succeeding in his Russian campaign and causing other divergences from our history for one reason or another.

[KrimzonStriker]

You mean Great Britain right? Britannia didn't come into being until after the monarchies expulsion from the European continent, so that theory may not jell well under those conditions >_>

[DJ_RockmanX]

Whatever. They're the same country. I'm calling it Britannia because it is already effectively different from the British Empire as it occurred in our history.

Why must you find something useless to argue about?

[Dann of Thursday]

Actually, I think Britain is completely seperate from Britannia.

[KrimzonStriker]

Same here, blame it on our dear Ricardo who abolished the parliament and consolidated power into an absolute monarchy :p

[DJ_RockmanX]

Are political labels that important to you people?

[KrimzonStriker]

It's important to differentiate where exactly the changes took place, and I believe it mentions in that little book how Ricardo restructured the whole system after he succeeded the throne, so by that time Great Britain was still relatively similar to what it was until the Battle of Trafalgar and the revolt of parliamentary supporters... hmm, maybe Ben did try to make up for screwing Washington over after all >_>

[DJ_RockmanX]

I actually need to know more about the Ascension of Ricardo van Britannia. I know nothing of that period in history. Anyone care to enlighten me?

[KrimzonStriker]

Ricardo van Britannia was a duke of Great Britain and supporter of Elizabeth III during Napoleon's invasion, the civil war, and subsequent exile afterwards. He would go on to take the throne after Elizabeth dies and consolidate Great Britain's former colonial holdings and create an absolute monarchy, dubbing this new nation the Holy Empire of Britannia. That's all we really know about him I believe.

[Isegrim]

for all we know...the Great War could be taking place on the American continent.
nothing yet has been concluded.

You can see the destroyed church of Ieper in Flanders during that scene. (I'm not absolutely sure that it's Ieper, but I remember that picture from some German documentations about WWI)

[Onizuka-GTO]

on another note, just realised that the Chinese Federation could be a Constitutional Monarchy.

E.U. is similar to a Republic

With Britannica an absolute Monarchy.

[Cal-Reflector]

Here is something I've been working on in between classes for the past two days.

It's speculation on what the Britannian Navy's Fleet Composition might look like on A.T.B. 2017, the sort of thing you would find in a "Military History Reading Companion to Code Geass".


Goal: To project a picture of what the Britannian Navy would look like in the world of Code Geass at the time the story takes place.

Method:
1) Concept roughly drawn from several versions of the US Navy’s projected future force composition.
2) Ship classes are based to varying extent upon real world counterparts that reflect role, cost, and capability, with adjustments made to reflect the advanced state of military technology in the world of Code Geass. See Item six under Chief Assumptions below.
Chief Assumptions:
1) That the absence of nuclear technology—which was necessary for the development of modern blue water fleets and submarines—is offset by the maturity of Sakuradite technology in the world of Code Geass. That when applied to ship propulsion, Sakuradite is at least comparable to present day nuclear power in terms of efficiency, output, and affordability, if not superior.
2) That the world of Code Geass is, as shown in the anime, in a volatile state of high military tension compared to our world, with corresponding willingness from nations to spend on defense and engage in military action.
3) That Britannia, with her long coastlines, trade lanes, and numerous overseas colonies maintains the most powerful navy in the world, with a strategic goal of maintaining 30% margin of superiority over the combined fleets of the EU and Chinese Federation.
4) That Britannia, enabled by her wealth, industrial capacity, and expansionist agenda, can afford to pursue and maintain a large and balanced fleet, including undersea warfare, sea basing, power projection, littoral combat, and an especially large amphibious assault capability.
5) That by 2017 when the anime takes place, Brittania’s naval construction plan is largely on target time and cost wise, enabled by a well administered authoritarian (enlightened-despotism?) government.
6) That military technology in the world of Code Geass (with the exception of nuclear technology) is far in advance of ours. SWATH and Trimaran multi-hull ships (which increases stability in rough seas, enables ships to travel up to 50 knots, and significantly increases usable topside surface area as well as internal volume) are thus assumed to be mature, possibly near obsolescent designs and the accepted norm for all naval surface vessels, with the FSF-1 Sea Fighter as the basis for dimensions.

Brittanian Navy Fleet Composition, Planned 2020.

Surface Combatants:
Aircraft Carriers: 16
Battleships: 12
Destroyers: 90
Cruisers: 70
Littoral Combat Ships (Corvettes): 100

Subsurface Combatants:
Large Attack submarines: 72
Small Attack submarines: 28
Guided Missile Submarines: 5
Knightmare Frame Carrier Submarine: 3

Amphibious Assault:
Large Assault Ship: 16
Medium Assault Ship: 16
Small Assault Ship: 32

Maritime Propositioning Force Ships (MPF (F)): 48
Logistics and Support Ships: 84

Total: 586 ships and submarines

I'll put the Description of Individual Ship Classes in the next post.

[scifijimmy]

The problem with calendar systems is people rarely start using a new one after only a few years of the event its uses as counting from. It usually comes into appearance some hundred years after the event.

Have to agree on issue how EU is more recent than Brittannia.

On Elizabeth III, when was her reign?

[KrimzonStriker]

Uhmm the a.t.b calender system has already been around a century, converted in modern time we'd be in 2069 AD right about now. :heh:

Probably, though it was stated that the EU and Britannia have been struggling with each other for a long time now, a war that's been exhausting to both sides.

Elizabeth III? Sometime around the Napoleonic War Era I guess, she's technically not real because apparently in the alternate time line Elizabeth I had a kid named Richard who carried on the Tudor line I believe.

[scifijimmy]

Just stating the first two points, Striker. But thanks on answering my question.

[KrimzonStriker]

Whose points were you talking about? I lost track, and your first assessment left me a bit boggled :confused:

[ashlay]

The problem with calendar systems is people rarely start using a new one after only a few years of the event its uses as counting from. It usually comes into appearance some hundred years after the event.

Have to agree on issue how EU is more recent than Brittannia.

On Elizabeth III, when was her reign?
The first time we hear about her is in 1807 a.t.b, the failed American revolution took place in the 1770s a.t.b, and by 1853 a.t.b Britannia has already been established for long enough to be sending trading/war ships to Japan.

so somewhere in there. >_>

[Cal-Reflector]

Right, so it was Britannia that did the whole Perry opening up Japan to the rest of the world thing? Interesting, I think people can add that to their "officially given concrete date and events" list, the few of which have been so important for us in figuring out the World of Geass' historical time line.

I'm continuing my previous post on the Britannian Navy in the military and weapons thread. It is probably more appropriate there.

[Ridwan]

Greetings ! :)

I would like to represent my speculations about the roughly whole situation of the world of Code Geass. I posted my map yesterday in Image thread, but now I think I have found a more appropriate thread to post my map :)

Anyway, below is the map, and this link (http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost.php?p=1519531&postcount=2863) will lead you to my previous post in the image thread where I made some lengthy explanations there. Enjoy ;)

http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/52/652/3/10/16/2900310160103317240Kgduzz_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2900310160103317240Kgduzz)

[Strettger]

Uhmm the a.t.b calender system has already been around a century, converted in modern time we'd be in 2069 AD right about now. :heh:

Probably, though it was stated that the EU and Britannia have been struggling with each other for a long time now, a war that's been exhausting to both sides.

Elizabeth III? Sometime around the Napoleonic War Era I guess, she's technically not real because apparently in the alternate time line Elizabeth I had a kid named Richard who carried on the Tudor line I believe.

Debateable, earlies it could have been established is 55BC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/55_BC), making 2017atb 1962 AD.....
By the same token, it could be centuries from now, th e Boudica rebelion could have succeded as the union that pushed the Romans out. Actualy that would be an interesting twist, Boudica as C.C.... the pronounciaction has changed from Boadicea to the modern Boudica in the intervening 2 milleniums.... Which would make 2017 atb 2077 AD.

Current British Monarch is Her Majisty Elizabeth the Second, Elizabeth III is pure fiction.

[KrimzonStriker]

Uhmm, I thought Lelouch established the specific incident that began the a.t.b calender was when a Celtic King managed to repulse the first Roman invasion by Julius Ceaser or something, ashlay was the one who converted the date for me when I first made the assumption that the calender was formed the year the Holy Empire of Britannia was :p

[Strettger]

Uhmm, I thought Lelouch established the specific incident that began the a.t.b calender was when a Celtic King managed to repulse the first Roman invasion by Julius Ceaser or something, ashlay was the one who converted the date for me when I first made the assumption that the calender was formed the year the Holy Empire of Britannia was :p

It was over 2000 years ago regardless of the callender - it could have been a queen who transcended myth and became a king over time..... like Chinese whispers.

More I read this the more I find it interesting as to the implications.....
I love being devils advocate....

[KrimzonStriker]

Uhmmm, I don't understand what you're getting at, there was a specific ancient Celtic King and from that date the a.t.b calender is converted to like 2060ish A.D according to what I was told when I inquired about it myself, so I don't understand where your getting these tales of myths from if it was a specific historical event with a specific date :confused:

Ediy: Okay, I updated myself and apparently the actual start of the a.t.b calendar is really wacky, officially occurring after an actual royal bloodline is set up by the Celtic Kings around the time of rule during Augustus I believe... but the remaining time line coincides with the AD calendar instead...

[Strettger]

Dates and events become..... squiffy over time.
If the Celtic king was remembered by word of mouth over 2000 years facts change.

William Wallace for instance was blown out of proporsion to be a near Herculerean leader when he was actualy allmost a dwarf for instance.

Given the times, King was a greater rank than Queen. Its out there but its a theory nontheless.

[KrimzonStriker]

What does this have to do with when the a.t.b calendar occurred again? It's an alternative history where instead of getting conquered by the Romans the Celts grow strong enough to establish their own dynastic bloodline from which the a.t.b calendar is formed from, that's the version of history we were given by the staff, why are you disputing it so much when we have no hint about myths or rumors on people that didn't technically exist thanks to the change in time line? :confused:

[Strettger]

Nope, I was just having a brainfart that Boudica, the celtic rebel queen may have been the celtic leader that united Brittania against the Romans. Given the way her name has been bastardised to Boudica from Boadicea, I hypothesised that it may be C.C.

This comes from her saying it was a strange pronounciation of her name in the cave. Both fit the lip movements aswell....

The bit about corrupted history from generation to generation over time was to allow Boudica to be remembered as a king as opposed to a queen.

[KrimzonStriker]

Well... Boudica didn't really get the chance to do that as Rome seems to have not managed to conquer the British Isles like they did in the actual time line and an established bloodline of kings was eventually made >_>

[Strettger]

Well... Boudica didn't really get the chance to do that as Rome seems to have not managed to conquer the British Isles like they did in the actual time line and an established bloodline of kings was eventually made >_>

Hmmm. My interpretation was that there was a war that eventualy pushed the Romans back. Whereas the Romans reinforced and beat the rebbelion.

If the Iceni rebeled and neighbouring Kingdoms joined in then ultimatly forced the romans out, they the Brittanians would have united and stopped the slow Roman conquest of the British Isles. Presumably the leaders of the Rebbelion, the Icini would reap the spoils of starting the rebelion and proclaim themselves the king of kings of the coalition.

[KrimzonStriker]

But the detail we got involved specifically the initial repulsion of Julius Ceaser during his first invasion which streams off into the alternate time line where the Celts eventually unite under and established blood line of kings... during Augustus's, not Nero's reign which is when Boudica came into prowess >_>

[Strettger]

Like I said, its a brainfart, not meant seriously juts as one of those quantom possibilities when you flip a coin....

[Ridwan]

Actually as a firm believer of butterfly effect, I'm quite discontent at Sunrise' choice for the point of divergence of Code Geass Alternate Timeline.:( Surely if Sunrise, or even any other production house would even going to bother them selves to extensively researching and speculating would going to give me nice dreams for thousands of nights and they'll have me as their worshiper !!:love::eyespin::heh::cool:::bow::bow::bow: Then again, I doubt it.... what a shame.....:(


And that's for my ranting now....;):p Btw in wikipedia I found that in our world Augustus planned to invade Britain 34, 27, and 25 BC, but it never realized because the circumstances were never favourable, and that trade brought more annual revenue rather than any conquest could, maybe at least during Augustus time. Now, let's say that Romans were around Britain for 10 years at most, and we're basing on the years Augustus actually planned to attack Britain. Then based on those I would say that if converted, 2017 a.t.b is equivalent to one of the years between 1983 AD to 2002 AD of our year. That's a rough calculation only, though...

Btw, here are the continuations of my map in my previous post. One map depicting a.t.b 2007 and the other depicting a.t.b 2017 after the Area 18 in Middle East has just been established :

http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/66/666/9/42/58/2565942580103317240rMYZma_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2565942580103317240rMYZma)

http://thumb0.webshots.net/t/52/652/9/68/30/2268968300103317240uoOUqi_th.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2268968300103317240uoOUqi)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

Actually as a firm believer of butterfly effect, I'm quite discontent at Sunrise' choice for the point of divergence of Code Geass Alternate Timeline.:( Surely if Sunrise, or even any other production house would even going to bother them selves to extensively researching and speculating would going to give me nice dreams for thousands of nights and they'll have me as their worshiper !!:love::eyespin::heh::cool:::bow::bow::bow: Then again, I doubt it.... what a shame.....:(

Err... No works of fiction that involved altering historical events ever followed the butterfly effect. :heh:

Because if they do, any minor change would change absolutely everything; nations, languages, names of famous people. Within 100 years of an alteration, the world would become unrecognizable and might as well be from a separate universe.

Narrative necessity forces the story to "bend back" from an alteration in the past. Hence we still get Napoleon and Washington in Code Geass, even though if the Butterfly Effect was fully followed they would never have been born at all.

[Ridwan]

Err... No works of fiction that involved altering historical events ever followed the butterfly effect. :heh:

Because if they do, any minor change would change absolutely everything; nations, languages, names of famous people. Within 100 years of an alteration, the world would become unrecognizable and might as well be from a separate universe.

Narrative necessity forces the story to "bend back" from an alteration in the past. Hence we still get Napoleon and Washington in Code Geass, even though if the Butterfly Effect was fully followed they would never have been born at all.

That's exactly why I said, if they'd really something like that, I will definitely worship them !! :p:D:D:D

Though, if I have the right to officially protest, I would suggest they should choose some times around medieval era for a more appropriate point of divergence :)

btw, I'm expecting at least some comments on my map, maybe it wouldn't be too bothersome....:heh: Don't you see that I didn't put Russia in the EEU, and there's an Ottoman Empire and Mughal Empire, and a United Malay State in my map ? :confused: :uhoh: :heh:

[JMvS]

Err... No works of fiction that involved altering historical events ever followed the butterfly effect. :heh:

Because if they do, any minor change would change absolutely everything; nations, languages, names of famous people. Within 100 years of an alteration, the world would become unrecognizable and might as well be from a separate universe.

Narrative necessity forces the story to "bend back" from an alteration in the past. Hence we still get Napoleon and Washington in Code Geass, even though if the Butterfly Effect was fully followed they would never have been born at all.

An uchronical show seriously considering butterfly effect and at least the main variables of history would be terrific to settle, so of course most people prefer either working on a short interval of time or small environment, wich has less chaos to manage, of just do a little copy/paste with reals events/people/places/cultures/whatever...wich of course is what we have in CG (as I pointed that in CGverse, the english langage wouldn't even exist :D )

Now an uchronical show that would seriously take into account the effect of the alteration on the cause of historical events would be a real challenge, but entertainment doesn't need to be serious to be enjoyed :p

[Ridwan]

An uchronical show seriously considering butterfly effect and at least the main variables of history would be terrific to settle, so of course most people prefer either working on a short interval of time or small environment, wich has less chaos to manage, of just do a little copy/paste with reals events/people/places/cultures/whatever...wich of course is what we have in CG (as I pointed that in CGverse, the english langage wouldn't even exist :D )

Now an uchronical show that would seriously take into account the effect of the alteration on the cause of historical events would be a real challenge, but entertainment doesn't need to be serious to be enjoyed :p

Agree, and agree ! Nevertheless, it would be very interesting to see an uchronical show that would seriously take into account the effect of the alteration on the cause of historical events would be a real challenge that is entertaining :p:D

[Alucard24]

Short version is Elizabeth beaten, Brittania established in North America. Brittania soaks up the other European colonial assets in the Americas as they have lost logistics support from their Motherlands - conquored by France.
Brittania starts analysing where they buggered up and builds an armada - WW1 begins when the Brittanian Armada begins its war of reclaimation of it's motherland.
Brittania wins the motherland due to superior technology, and decides to capatalise on its early victory and does something akin to Operation Overlord - a full scale invasion of mainland Europe.
French Empire starts to crumble, old kingdoms start claiming independance in hopes of being left out of the conflict, Brittania ignores this. Fragmented European kingdoms form the EU, a defensive pact against Brittania and a war of attrition is the Great war as the EU pushes Brittania out of mainland Europe and onto Britian.

Cold War continues until present day.

Thats my thought on it :D

Very well resumed I think !

Good work :)

[Ridwan]

Short version is Elizabeth beaten, Brittania established in North America. Brittania soaks up the other European colonial assets in the Americas as they have lost logistics support from their Motherlands - conquored by France.
Brittania starts analysing where they buggered up and builds an armada - WW1 begins when the Brittanian Armada begins its war of reclaimation of it's motherland.
Brittania wins the motherland due to superior technology, and decides to capatalise on its early victory and does something akin to Operation Overlord - a full scale invasion of mainland Europe.
French Empire starts to crumble, old kingdoms start claiming independance in hopes of being left out of the conflict, Brittania ignores this. Fragmented European kingdoms form the EU, a defensive pact against Brittania and a war of attrition is the Great war as the EU pushes Brittania out of mainland Europe and onto Britian.

Cold War continues until present day.

Thats my thought on it :D

That's a nice summary :) Though personally I have my own opinion that somewhat differs from yours.

I agree that WWI did happen, but I doubt that the Britannians managed to get their homeland back. It would be more likely if someone like Villeta can be considered as a Britannian if the Holy Britannia Empire itself is based in the North America, she being a brown-skinned and has somewhat Latinic name and all. And apparently not all pure Britannians shown in Code Geass are all white. I assume that wouldn't be the case if the British isles were reconquered by the Britannians, because I'm under the impression that if so, than the Britannians would most likely going to bring back the capital of the empire into London, and by that most likely it'll be mean that the Empire would have become white-centrist again. The other reason I have to base this argument on will maybe my assumption that, if the Britannians manage to get the British isles back, I don't think Europe will be able to become a secondary superpower at all. A big threat just right at the next door !! Britannia, in their such behavior they had shown to us in the series, most likely are going to torn apart Europe before they manage to become something at all. And also that it would be seem more reasonable that Britannia became such a Fascist, warmongering aggressive dictatorial absolute monarchy nation because they were gravely defeated twice !! In fact I'm actually very inclined to believe Europe could never going to become a superpower unless 1) the colonial European nations, or at least some of them, manage to retain all or several of their important colonies, and/or 2) At least one of two following nations would have to be in EEU :

a) Russia
The presence of Russia in the EEU, practically will be very helpful especially economically. They have a lot of natural and human resources and even in such rump condition like today, they're still considered as a great power. Though mostly it can be a backfire. Because Russia will just become rather to powerful and the some other European might going to have some questions. And I'm quite pessimistic that even without Communism and such, Russia would ever become a liberal democracy. And I believe that it absolutely requires to become a liberal democracy to become a member of CGverse' EEU.

b) Ottoman Empire
Ottoman Empire has several differences compared to Russia. First, while it will give Europe more or less equal economical force, Ottoman Empire had lesser population, had been having rather small population for its size, and its population would never going to be larger than Russia unless Russia is going to have some serious depopulation problem more than today ! Imagine, a nation that units most of middle east which contains OIL, and most likely that Egypt wouldn't be British in CGverse, Ottoman Empire would hold, or at least has important presence in the, Suez Canal. Most likely that OE would also become a dominant force in the EEU as well, but I suppose that its power could be more easily matched by western European nations, for Ottoman Empire being a somewhat difficult country to populate and being not a colonial empire. Second, even since 1876, Ottoman Empire had been a functioning semi-parliamentary democracy(and thus, wayyy more democratic than Russia). Albeit it was somewhat limited, but if in the CG-verse the development of democracy somehow takes a similar track like in our world, by the time of the show I believe it firmly Ottoman Empire would have eventually got rid of that problem :)

Personally, I think EEU is just like our world's European Union, with several member nations more powerful than the others fairly dominate the course of policies taken by the Union. But I imagine that this domination will be maybe somewhat stronger, if only maybe slightly...

[DJ_RockmanX]

New map:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2893/1208073611598044bf02fd0ar2.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1208073611598044bf02fd0ar2.jpg)

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

New map:

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/2893/1208073611598044bf02fd0ar2.th.jpg (http://img167.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1208073611598044bf02fd0ar2.jpg)

What! Brittania took New Zealand?:confused:

I don't see why they would take New Zealand and not Australia... I guess it might be because Australia didn't have any Geass ruins?

[Dann of Thursday]

That could be the reason since all their capturing of territory seems to have been for that purpose.

[DJ_RockmanX]

I will continue to pitch the idea of Australia as a No Man's land. :D

And looking at this map makes me want play Risk for some reason. :heh:

[JMvS]

Well at least now we know that they didn't managed to reclaim the motherland.

[ashlay]

Well at least now we know that they didn't managed to reclaim the motherland.
finally. :heh:

now we can just show pretty pictures instead of having to bring up the Lelouch-sensei history lessons.

[JMvS]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/759/vlcsnap1644881fk5.th.png (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap1644881fk5.png)

We can also see more clearly how the world is actually parted:

Britannia: Americas, NZ, Japan

EU: Europe, Africa, Anatolia, Caucasus, Siberia.

China: China, India, whole S-E Asia, all Central Asia.

Persian Gulf: Arabia and Persia (Iran), maybe Area 18 was gained on their territory.

Australia: where kangaroo hop!

Not counting the latter two, that's close to 1/3 each.

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/759/vlcsnap1644881fk5.th.png (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap1644881fk5.png)

We can also see more clearly how the world is actually parted:

Britannia: Americas, NZ, Japan

EU: Europe, Africa, Anatolia, Caucasus

China: China, India, whole S-E Asia, all Central Asia.

Persian Gulf: Arabia and Persia (Iran), maybe the Area 18 was gained on their territory.

Australia

Not counting the latter two, that's really 1/3 each.
I guess when they say Britannia control 2/3 of the world, they included the Pacific and Atlantic Oceans? That would make sense.

[Blaat]

It seems due to global warming Iceland managed to disappear beneath the sea. Poor Icelanders. :( :p

[JMvS]

It seems due to global warming Iceland managed to disappear beneath the sea. Poor Icelanders. :( :p

Lol I didn't notice that :eyespin:

[Kristen]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/759/vlcsnap1644881fk5.th.png (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap1644881fk5.png)

We can also see more clearly how the world is actually parted:

Britannia: Americas, NZ, Japan

EU: Europe, Africa, Anatolia, Caucasus, Siberia.

China: China, India, whole S-E Asia, all Central Asia.

Persian Gulf: Arabia and Persia (Iran), maybe Area 18 was gained on their territory.

Australia: where kangaroo hop!

Not counting the latter two, that's close to 1/3 each.

Hm... I thought that Brittania took over Serbia as Area 18 in season 1... Maybe that map showed the world pre-serbian invasion?

[JMvS]

Hm... I thought that Brittania took over Serbia as Area 18 in season 1... Maybe that map showed the world pre-serbian invasion?

Serbia?? You meant Arabia right?

[Onizuka-GTO]

http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/759/vlcsnap1644881fk5.th.png (http://img443.imageshack.us/my.php?image=vlcsnap1644881fk5.png)

We can also see more clearly how the world is actually parted:

Britannia: Americas, NZ, Japan

EU: Europe, Africa, Anatolia, Caucasus, Siberia.

China: China, India, whole S-E Asia, all Central Asia.

Persian Gulf: Arabia and Persia (Iran), maybe Area 18 was gained on their territory.

Australia: where kangaroo hop!

Not counting the latter two, that's close to 1/3 each.


just like to say that the size of the UK in comparison to say Japan is proportionals incorrect, its FAR too big.

I'm baffled as to why Japan is drawn so small...

I'm tempted to say it was an unconcious mistake on part of the artist, due to the Japanese meme of "Japan is a small country!" when ever you talk to a random native Japanese about their country on the world stage.
:rolleyes:

[Isegrim]

It seems due to global warming Iceland managed to disappear beneath the sea. Poor Icelanders. :( :p

Same goes for Svalbard :twitch:

[Vallen Chaos Valiant]

just like to say that the size of the UK in comparison to say Japan is proportionals incorrect, its FAR too big.

I'm baffled as to why Japan is drawn so small...

I'm tempted to say it was an unconcious mistake on part of the artist, due to the Japanese meme of "Japan is a small country!" when ever you talk to a random native Japanese about their country on the world stage.
:rolleyes:

Are you sure it isn't just an effect of flattening a globe map onto a rectangle?
UK, being closer to the Arctic than Japan, had to be stretched out more when placed on a flattened map.

And honestly, I doubt they drew that map of the world by memory; no one is THAT good.:heh:

[Kristen]

Serbia?? You meant Arabia right?

Maybe it was Arabia. Regardless, that's in Africa, which is not part of Brittania in there.


Beyond that, something's wrong with that map... The textbooks they were reading was all British history... Maybe when Brittania took over Britain it merged with them?

[KrimzonStriker]

The British History was pre-Britannia for the most part though... in any event I would imagine Africa is more in line with Britannia since they have a war with the EU going on there.... Hey, this is funny, maybe it's Britannia attacking El Alamain instead of the other way around :eyespin:

[JMvS]

Maybe it was Arabia. Regardless, that's in Africa, which is not part of Brittania in there.


Beyond that, something's wrong with that map... The textbooks they were reading was all British history... Maybe when Brittania took over Britain it merged with them?

Neither Arabia (generally stated as part of Asia) nor Serbia (Europe, it's in the Balkan, north of Greece, east from Italy) are in the African continent ;)

I still think that Area 18 was conquered on the Persia-Arabia displayed in dark green on the map, as they had a strong arabic vibe and their KMF were clearly different than those from the EU.

The El Alamain front, according to the map, would concern solely EU vs Britannia

[Cal-Reflector]

Well that map certainly answers a lot of questions.

Given this distribution, Britannia's super power status in the world is hardly theirs alone. I wonder why I was under that impression

[KrimzonStriker]

They probably took the mantle of superpower from them, the Middle East Green country no longer seems to be around, and Africa is a hot-spot of conflict between them and the EU. Also, Dominion status for India and Australia is still up there >_>

[JMvS]

Well that map certainly answers a lot of questions.

Given this distribution, Britannia's super power status in the world is hardly theirs alone. I wonder why I was under that impression

You were probably under the influence of Wakamoto's superiority complex!

[Nightengale]

Well that map certainly answers a lot of questions.

Given this distribution, Britannia's super power status in the world is hardly theirs alone. I wonder why I was under that impression

Probably because it did so in one generation?

Wasn't it mentioned that it was Charles himself who instigated the entire "conquer nations and claim Areas" thing?

Besides, even taking the mass of owned land into account, Britannia does present itself as the 'superior' super-power overall. It seems to have all the best toys and the best talents.

[Blaat]

Is Persia independent or a dominion of Britannia? I'm leaving towards the latter, which kind of explains the El Alamein front, which is gone now. Lots of things in those two years. :heh:

[Kristen]

Well that map certainly answers a lot of questions.

Given this distribution, Britannia's super power status in the world is hardly theirs alone. I wonder why I was under that impression

I never thought that. :p

Really, they just ripped off the Orwellian concept of the three superpower world. Oceania (Brittania), Eurasia (EU), and East Asia (China). And Africa was the battleground between the three areas, trying to take the people for slaves, but the real reason for battling was just to cause a deficit in certain supplies in the country.

Now, the difference is that Africa is for territorial gains, not for slaves. But could it also be using the same idea that the only reason for war is so that the citizens have to make sacrafices? Interesting...

[KrimzonStriker]

Oh and Great Britain is part of the EU, hah to all you Operation Overlord theorist :p