Macross Frontier Character Discussion - Alto Saotome

[4Tran]

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Alto related.
To keep the discussion enjoyable for all Macross fans, please follow the guidelines below and stay on-topic!
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i89/4Tran/Alto.jpg

Note: Please don't use this for the specific episode / chapter / game talk, there are other threads for that stuff.
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[Jett]

Ok, i suppose that somebody must say it...
I am really scared by the meaning of this pic:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9094/ohgodaltohimeon2.jpg

Alto has some relation with the Kabuki and is a onnagata… or they only look for to satisfy niche of "traps"?

[dom33]

@jett that's alto?!?!?:twitch: i thought it was sheryl!

any way I think alto is an interesting and sympathetic character.I'd say more but it's only episode 1.

[Shiroth]

I am really scared by the meaning of this pic:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9094/ohgodaltohimeon2.jpg?
For starters, we know thanks to the special first episode that he's not happy at all with being labeled a female because of his looks --- so it's pretty obvious that that image shall have something to do with it.

[orion]

Ok, i suppose that somebody must say it...
I am really scared by the meaning of this pic:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9094/ohgodaltohimeon2.jpg

Alto has some relation with the Kabuki and is a onnagata… or they only look for to satisfy niche of "traps"?

Yeah, too bad it's a series spoiler to mention it now. It's not the first TV series that aired this year to introduce this element into a character development. However, he is the first one to be pissed about it. Maybe Kabuki is seeing a resurgence in Japan or there is a decrease in onnagata in Japan now.

[Tabris]

He needs a haircut :3

[Westlo]

Haha Princess Alto ftw.

[Shiroth]

Haha Princess Alto ftw.
Doujin material.

[IHaveCrayons]

I think he's much less reticent then most of your typical main characters. For example, he seems pretty happy after his encounter with Ranka Lee's little Nyan-Nyan song. He even zooms up on her with his camera. Maybe he has a personality?!

[Onizuka-GTO]

well, he certainly more "girly" then hikaru was.

at leased he doesn't have a mullet hair cut.

So one thing we know, is that he attends a sort of military cadet high school? or at leased a high school that has a military cadet club? i don't think all high schools have power glider runways.

oh well, as long as they aren't emo-random teenagers to pilot god-hacked robots. :)

[IHaveCrayons]

Everyone knows that emo-random teenagers are the best pilots!!

I just hope he doesn't become automatic pro and engage SEED mode out of nowhere.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Everyone knows that emo-random teenagers are the best pilots!!

I just hope he doesn't become automatic pro and engage SEED mode out of nowhere.

*crucifies HaveCrayons before the Macross Altar*

Forgive his sins! he is but only a Gundam heathen..oh ok, just the liver too. he doesn't need it anyway.

:rolleyes:

Unfortunately we don't have "seed" mode in Macross, but we have something similar, but it only happens between when two individuals of opposite gender get busy with each other to bring out the special thing. :p

Anyway, Altro should have rudimentary training to pilot a vehicle, in cadet clubs they do teach you the basics, so seeing him pilot the Valkyrie wasn't surprising.

Seems like a pretty passionate character, but no emo here, these mecha don't feed off emo-vibes like does special gundams need.

:)

[ssfsx17]

I think he's much less reticent then most of your typical main characters. For example, he seems pretty happy after his encounter with Ranka Lee's little Nyan-Nyan song. He even zooms up on her with his camera. Maybe he has a personality?!

His personality is probably something like, "The only thing that I like more than flying around in the sky is shacking up with chicks who are half my height."

[IHaveCrayons]

*crucifies HaveCrayons before the Macross Altar*

Forgive his sins! he is but only a Gundam heathen..oh ok, just the liver too. he doesn't need it anyway.

:rolleyes:

Unfortunately we don't have "seed" mode in Macross, but we have something similar, but it only happens between when two individuals of opposite gender get busy with each other to bring out the special thing. :p

Anyway, Altro should have rudimentary training to pilot a vehicle, in cadet clubs they do teach you the basics, so seeing him pilot the Valkyrie wasn't surprising.

Seems like a pretty passionate character, but no emo here, these mecha don't feed off emo-vibes like does special gundams need.

:)
That was sarcasm by the way =x

[Onizuka-GTO]

That was sarcasm by the way =x

so was mine.

=x

don't even have an altar anyway.

[changeup]

You know, nowadays when you are making an anime, you have to include a TRAP character just for the sake of following the trend.

This being said, since Kabuki is only played by males, I do not consider that playing Onnagata equals to TRAP... This also means that that photo has to be Alto since Sheryle cannot play Kabuki for this very reason:)

Ok, i suppose that somebody must say it...
I am really scared by the meaning of this pic:

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9094/ohgodaltohimeon2.jpg

Alto has some relation with the Kabuki and is a onnagata… or they only look for to satisfy niche of "traps"?

[orion]

But having onnagata or onnagata-like characters shown in real life with identity issues and being emo or pissed off is becoming popular. So is there a reaction against onnagata now in Japan?

Another anime currently being aired has 2 of these characters in it. One that has finished had 1 character but without the identity issues. That character was emo about something else.

[DonQuigleone]

Aww come on, how can we be sure Alto is a trap? Alto has too much Gar potential to be a trap (tell me that shot at the end of the episode isn't screaming Gar)

Edit: When rewatching the op it seemed a bit more likely, for one thing they have the same eyes (colour and structure) and their hair is the same colour too. Will Alto's Gar potential be undermined?

[orion]

Most of us were saying that he isn't a trap. Aruto obviously has his sexual identity in place and is not trying to fool anybody.

Also, onnagata (http://www.umich.edu/~iinet/cjs/events/onnagata.html) is not a subset of trap. More info about onnagata and Kabuki is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabuki).

But this won't prevent people such as Micheal from teasing him about it.

[Winchester]

Eheh. Family name Saotome, sensitive about gender issues... I smell huge crossover potential. Be afraid...

(and yes, I know they most likely use different kanji, but that never mattered to anyone who wanted to write fanfic anyway...)

SP

[4Tran]

Both Alto and Ranma have the surname of 早乙女. In Alto's case, it doesn't take someone with gender issues to be annoyed when teased the way he was. From what we know of his character, he's both serious-minded and very goal oriented. Such people often don't take well to getting teased. As far as I can tell, the onnagata thing is just a nifty character hook that allows the audience to easily get into his character.

[changeup]

Eheh. Family name Saotome, sensitive about gender issues... I smell huge crossover potential. Be afraid...

(and yes, I know they most likely use different kanji, but that never mattered to anyone who wanted to write fanfic anyway...)

SP

Actually the same kanji. It literally means rice-planting girls..

Weird as it is, it is a real Japanese family name.


Both Alto and Ranma have the surname of 早乙女. In Alto's case, it doesn't take someone with gender issues to be annoyed when teased the way he was. From what we know of his character, he's both serious-minded and very goal oriented. Such people often don't take well to getting teased. As far as I can tell, the onnagata thing is just a nifty character hook that allows the audience to easily get into his character.

However, you can also take the overreaction by Alto in this issue as an indication for his internal desire for cross-dressing, as in the case of a certain character in an anime that ended Dec last year. For now, it is hard to say which interpretation is correct. We can wait and see. Human's mind is truly complicate.

[orion]

Truly doubt that it would happen in a Macross or Gundam title. That is in the realm of fanfic only.

Onnagata is a neat way to justify the "princess" comment which was omitted in the final version of episode 1 and link it to Japanese culture and not worry about the crossdressing slurs to the character.

Aruto's bishonen design is made to appeal to the females viewers also like the male characters of Gundam 00.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Aruto's bishonen design is made to appeal to the females viewers also like the male characters of Gundam 00.

I agree.

and for some unknown reason, i keep thinking this is a subtle jab at Gundam, everytime Alto rebuffs another "you look like a girl!" jib. :p

But if he starts going emo, i'll just hope his valkyrie doesn't upgrade itself with n-jam cancellers, dragoons and Justice lazar systems.

:rolleyes:

[D a m i e n]

this character's design screams of female audience bait.
where are the real male lead like cobra, goku, ryo saeba etc etc.

hope this character will devellope correctely otherwize this could jeopardize my interrested in macross :(

[DonQuigleone]

If we're lucky Mikhail might turn out REAL cool, we've already seen his teeth ping, that's coolness territory right there.

Also Alto seems to have GAR potential to me, he certainly seems to ooze passion and determination.

[Onizuka-GTO]

If we're lucky Mikhail might turn out REAL cool, we've already seen his teeth ping, that's coolness territory right there.


Roy Focker material right there. :rolleyes:

[Zekori]

Roy Focker material right there. :rolleyes:

If we're going by the original series I'd have to vote more towards Maximilian vibes more than anything when I remember the whole Milia video game challenge. :heh:

[DonQuigleone]

He could go towards either, mostly cause with regards to women they were both similiar (absolute ladies men, Max could tell a womens bust size ON SIGHT, while playing a challenging game AT THE SAME TIME, the man was a legend, Roy speaks for himself). He won't be a rehash though, he tends to tease a lot, which Roy and Max didn't do as much. He certainly is Ace material though.

[Onizuka-GTO]

If we're going by the original series I'd have to vote more towards Maximilian vibes more than anything when I remember the whole Milia video game challenge. :heh:


your the second person who pointed that out to me. dammn you.

i knew that. just....erm.....testing you out.

:uhoh:


anyway lanca brother is roy material.

[DonQuigleone]

That he may be, but we haven't see him do much yet other than blast aliens, he certainly is the most senior pilot shown though, possibly qualifying as a Roy

[orion]

anyway lanca brother is roy material.

Skull Leader with a huge death flag waving due his close quarter kill in episode 2. Yep, that's Roy.

He also seemed to enjoy himself too much in the battlefield.

[pinoy78]

I almost shed a tear when Luca was talking to Ozma.

SKULL ONE is back baby!

[Astrana]

Alto looks similar with the guy in D.Gray-Man hehehe
also, prettyboy hardcore mecha pilot... well, let's see what happens.
Other than that it is too early to judge the character,
but from the 2 episodes, he seems like an introvert, with a sad face most of the time
it's probably cuz something from his past is shadowing him.
and there are a lot mecha show starts with kids accidentally become a newbie pilot and end up being an ACE, also the typical father figure character out there tougher him up and become his mentor.... lol, typical... but i will still watch the show, cuz the mech fight alone will be worth it

[Westlo]

*watches OP*

I don't blame Alto for having a sad face :heh::heh::heh:

[Jazzrat]

and there are a lot mecha show starts with kids accidentally become a newbie pilot and end up being an ACE

Well in defense of Macross, Hikaru was in the flying circus before he joined SDF and Alto is an aerial acrobat :) a bit more realistic compare to some other mecha anime :)

Also neither pilot manage to gun down any enemies early on if i m not wrong, although Alto is a bit better trained than Hikaru (atleast he didnt destroy Ranka's house going into humanoid form)

[DonQuigleone]

Don't forget that Hikaru doesn't become the top guy either, this isn't gundam after all (I swear the top way to select new pilots is to wait for someone to accidentally piot your top model)

[Zekori]

Don't forget that Hikaru doesn't become the top guy either, this isn't gundam after all (I swear the top way to select new pilots is to wait for someone to accidentally piot your top model)

Hikaru sorta does, he does climb through several promotions in the series and does become the successor for the VF-1S (can't remember if he takes over the Skull Squadron, however).

But the growth of that level wasn't much like Gundam where someone hops onto an experimental machine (With a manual just on the pilot seat.. of course by chance) and plot devices are battled with sudden power ups that are common on gundam. :heh:

Although thats comparing to the original SDF Macross, Macross 7 was a bit ":twitch:" at times.

[Westlo]

But Hikaru isn't the top pilot since we all know Maxmillian Jenius is the superior pilot :) And Millia Jenius would be #2.

[Astrana]

Don't forget that Hikaru doesn't become the top guy either, this isn't gundam after all (I swear the top way to select new pilots is to wait for someone to accidentally piot your top model)

hehe, ye, i guess it is bit too early to judge.
and i have to say Macross fighting scene is better than Gundam..

[Jazzrat]

hehe, ye, i guess it is bit too early to judge.
and i have to say Macross fighting scene is better than Gundam..

If you like Macross style dogfights, i highly recommend checking out Macross Zero OVA and Sentou Yousei Yukikaze. One of the best aerial dogfights anime i have seen.

As for Alto, i think he's ok... not as emo as some other pilots i have seen, just a bit touchy on the subject of his ummm feminine look. I'm sure most guys would get a bit miffed when people mistake them for a girl even if it's a beautiful girl.

Also points for him for feeling sorry for poor Gilliam(?) that got squished in the first episode :P

[Zekori]

From episode two it looks like his frustration is more pent up than just looking a bit girlish...

With the whole flashback of him as a kid dressed as a girl from my understanding.

[herbert]

But Hikaru isn't the top pilot since we all know Maxmillian Jenius is the superior pilot :) And Millia Jenius would be #2.
It's too true. Thinking Jenius's family go into a family war, they need at least two dozens of Hikaru's as warmups.

From episode two it looks like his frustration is more pent up than just looking a bit girlish...

With the whole flashback of him as a kid dressed as a girl from my understanding.

You are right. Our princess-sama was born in a Kabuki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabuki) family. He was raised up as Kabuki performer, for which he must dress as female on stage, and I believe his long hair is a compromise with his family to allow him transfer to Pilot Training department of his school.

[noir senshi]

Sorry for being noob but what is GAR?

[ReddyRedWolf]

A phenomenon that started with a mistype at 4chan.

Mistyped "GAR for" instead of "GAY for".

Basically a male character oozing with manliness that makes you want to aim to be like that guy.

So it's the antethesis of the female character MOE.



Anyway Gattai fansubs is bit clunky for all my media players.

I'll wait for a better version.

Oh yeah the Basara song Woot!

After all these yeas I'm still hooked.

This is the guy that wooed an entire fleet of Meltrandi.

[DonQuigleone]

A real typical example of Gar is the main characters of Gurren Lagann. Basically if he seems real passionate, manly, hell, plain admirable (in a masculine way) he's Gar.

Gar can also refer to cold blooded masculine characters, but that sort doesn't tend to appear as much in Mecha shows.

I'm thinking both Alto and Mikhail have good Gar potential

[squaresphere]

I'm definitely thinking we'll see Alto's family Kabuki background clash with his wanting to be a pilot at some point.

[ani_d]

Alto really reminds me of Kanda from D-Grayman.

[Shiroth]

Alto really reminds me of Kanda from D-Grayman.
I can see why you'd say that. They have the exact same hair style.

[Cadorna]

give him a valky with katana:p

[The Sandman]

His personality is probably something like, "The only thing that I like more than flying around in the sky is shacking up with chicks who are half my height."

While flying, of course. ;)

[tbl]

If Alto hates being called princess, why doesn't he just get a goddamn hair cut? That's my only complaint I have with the series.

[Shiroth]

If Alto hates being called princess, why doesn't he just get a goddamn hair cut? That's my only complaint I have with the series.
Even with a hair cut, i'm pretty sure he'll still be labeled Princess. Hair's not the main part of it, his looks & past are.

[D a m i e n]

If Alto hates being called princess, why doesn't he just get a goddamn hair cut? That's my only complaint I have with the series.

QFE.
i was about to ask the same question. but the answer is if he was to get a haircut all the yaoi fangirls would move along.
my other complain is about the 2 schoolmate of alto looking like crap, what the hell is up with a boy with pink on his cheeks getting a valkiri.

[Calder]

If Alto hates being called princess, why doesn't he just get a goddamn hair cut? That's my only complaint I have with the series.

My first thought would probably be that he still has to work for his family. It's a family business so he's still got to help out his family earn money.

The boy still has dreams of flying, but his family is part of the trade (and I suspect it's a tradition thing as his father's name is Saotome Ranzo XVIII out of all things). Sure he could be rebellious, but he doesn't seem to be a delinquent either as he's able to achieve honours and all.

[Westlo]

And we can't forget the dramatic "cut my hair" scene to symbolize how he is a new person sometime during the series! Last few examples of that I've personally seen was in Eureka Seven (woman though) and the Ps2 Tales of the Abyss RPG (long haired dude!).

[D a m i e n]

i also remember kazuki cutting his hair to symbolize he would become a new person >.>

[vision33r]

He probably has Ranma Saotome's hair curse..

[cry]

aha, crossover material!

[TakCWAL]

When I saw Alto struck that pose in Episode 4, I thought: Oh, hes done. Thats it.

And of course it does not help to see him featured on Oekaki boards as a female. Now we will just have to brace ourselves for the publication of Shota doujins.

- Tak

[Ja-Y-Ce]

If Alto hates being called princess, why doesn't he just get a goddamn hair cut? That's my only complaint I have with the series.

Lolz, suddenly I have this silly idea. We should get a poll to decide whether he should get a haircut or not. Spread it to 4ch then to 2ch. Surely, the macross production team will get what the fans want... about his hair... :heh:

and I do not think that the yaoi fan girls will move away if he does have his hair cut. Hime sama will always remain as a hime sama... but he might be more "hansamu" than"girly" this time... oh well. :p

[Nightengale]

Alto should embrace both his sky-love and kabuki-blood. Then we can have Ranka, Sheryl and Alto performing as a trio in a cross-cultural musical performance.

And we can't forget the dramatic "cut my hair" scene to symbolize how he is a new person sometime during the series! Last few examples of that I've personally seen was in Eureka Seven (woman though) and the Ps2 Tales of the Abyss RPG (long haired dude!).

That'll probably only happen when he goes to (( verbally )) bitchslap his dad. Still a far ways off, if a glare from meters away instantly :eek: him with his kabuki background sheet showing.

The thing is though, why would he even pull a Kabuki-pose with his VF? Unless deep down, he doesn't really hate his 'family business' and is only feeling some sort of complex (( inferiority, obligations, choices, dreams, etc )), he's really gotten the onna-gata down to the 'o.' I mean, for someone who hates people talking about his feminine looks, he really spends a LONG time fixing his hair in front of the mirror. :heh:

[Tak]

The thing is though, why would he even pull a Kabuki-pose with his VF?

Another possibility would be that he was once so immersed with the training, now he just pulls it off instinctively. I am sure you have experienced something similar.

But that was some funny sh*t.

- Tak

[Westlo]

That'll probably only happen when he goes to (( verbally )) bitchslap his dad. Still a far ways off, if a glare from meters away instantly :eek: him with his kabuki background sheet showing.

Definitely a long way off.

The thing is though, why would he even pull a Kabuki-pose with his VF? Unless deep down, he doesn't really hate his 'family business' and is only feeling some sort of complex (( inferiority, obligations, choices, dreams, etc )), he's really gotten the onna-gata down to the 'o.' I mean, for someone who hates people talking about his feminine looks, he really spends a LONG time fixing his hair in front of the mirror. :heh:

That pose just took me completely by surprise and cracked me up.

[Onizuka-GTO]

Definitely a long way off.



That pose just took me completely by surprise and cracked me up.

like ozma said, "baka"


you don't stop in the middle of a battle to pwn your opponent, when there are still enemies about.

:rolleyes:

[4Tran]

The thing is though, why would he even pull a Kabuki-pose with his VF?
There's both an in-universe and an out-of-universe explanation. The in-universe one is that he's a bit of a show-off, and so he makes either a cool pose to celebrate (or one that comes to him naturally). The out-of-universe explanation is that cool poses are de rigueur for mecha shows, and that by making such an unusual pose, and getting Ozma to yell at Alto about it, the creators are poking fun at this convention.

Unless deep down, he doesn't really hate his 'family business' and is only feeling some sort of complex (( inferiority, obligations, choices, dreams, etc )), he's really gotten the onna-gata down to the 'o.' I mean, for someone who hates people talking about his feminine looks, he really spends a LONG time fixing his hair in front of the mirror. :heh:
I get the feeling that Alto dislikes being forced to live up to the tradition more than he really minds actually living up to it. Another aspect of his character seems to be that he likes the way he looks, but he still doesn't like being made fun of because of it.

Then again, it's sort of natural to prim a little bit in episode 4 given that he's treats going to Ranka's pageant quite importantly, and that he's also making sure that he got rid of all that make up.

like ozma said, "baka"


you don't stop in the middle of a battle to pwn your opponent, when there are still enemies about.
Correction: you don't do that in Macross.

[Tak]

Correction: you don't do that in Macross.

HA! So true. Macross is one of the few franchise without a signature move/pose (while Gundam and others all had at least one). The triple M is the closest signature pose you will ever get in Macross, then again, everyone does it, not just the heroes.

- Tak

[Cadorna]

^ they have cool maneuvers, just like the heart in ep 4 or in the original when Max is intruduced and powned 3 glaug with the fokker's something (don 't remenber the name)

[Tak]

^ they have cool maneuvers, just like the heart in ep 4 or in the original when Max is intruduced and powned 3 glaug with the fokker's something (don 't remenber the name)

Indeed they have cool maneuvers, but never a signature maneuver. The same move is rarely exercised more than once. In Gundam SEED, you can easily pinpoint one of the signature move being the all-too-infamous 'Rainbow Gun', which is only available to heroes.

For Macross, there are no special weapons only the hero posses. The only special reward heroes will ever get is a custom paint-job on their fighters.

- Tak

[4Tran]

I'd also like to bring up the distinction between a cool maneuver, and a cool pose. There's all sorts of potentially cool-looking moves that are also effective in combat, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with using them (either in animation or in real life). However, there's absolutely no practical reason for making cool poses (they're pretty much just beauty shots), and that's exactly what Alto got called on.

[Onizuka-GTO]

the only signature pose you se in macross, is the battloid pose with the gunpod at the end of the opening animation

:)

always associated that with macross.

[4Tran]

I'm a little surprised that Alto isn't getting more love even though he's one of the most interesting male mecha anime leads in a decade.


The only major theme in Frontier that existed in SDF Macross seems to be that of distance. For Alto, the most important relationships are with Sheryl and Ranka; and the amount of distance he has to the two characters started from different points and appears to be moving in different directions.

With Ranka, it started off with a random encounter, but upon meeting up again, they became close enough to exchange phone numbers. In this case, Alto served as her support in a way that Ozma couldn't/wouldn't fulfill. However, this closeness was shortlived as events constantly conspired to interfere with their interaction:

Alto was called away during the Miss Macross Pageant (Ozma's fault).
She called him after the fight with her brother, but Alto was stuck in the locker with Sheryl (mostly Alto's fault).
Alto tried returning her call, but she already killed her phone (mostly Ranka's fault).
She would have spoken to him at the Zentradi mall, but for the presence of Sheryl (mostly Sheryl's fault).

All of this built up distance is brought to a boiling point in episode 6 as Alto rebuffed Ranka in their only conversation since the Nyan-Nyan outing (admittedly that'd only be a couple of days ago). This doesn't mean that Alto is either ignoring Ranka or intentionally trying to deceive her. However, what he did to encourage her is the most telling thing about the way he sees her: he gave her a ticket to the Bye-Bye Sheryl concert. If it were the same Ranka we saw in episode 1, she would have been overjoyed, but she's moved on a great deal, and Alto failed to note the signals. And the main reason for that is that his mind was occupied on a totally different subject...

Alto's relationship to Sheryl is on a diametrically different path. They didn't start off on the best note, but the distance has shrunk between them to the point that they're willing to share their insecurities with one another. Given their personalities, this kind of thing doesn't come easily at all. The best illustration of the difference in approaches is to compare how Alto primped and preened before going to the Miss Macross Pageant to see Ranka, but rushed off immediately after the interview to see Sheryl. This is further emphasized by how neither speaks directly about each other, but they understand the meaning behind the words perfectly. The earring is the cherry that puts everything in perspective: not only did Alto find it for Sheryl as he promised, but he dwelled on it to the exclusion of other matters. Putting it in his cockpit just shows how much he's taken Sheryl's feelings to heart.


What I also find interesting is that there still isn't very much in the way of romance going on. The three characters still relate to each other as people first, and only peripherally as romantic partners. As a slight aside, the distance between Ranka and Sheryl is pretty interesting as well, but that's a topic for a different thread.

[squaresphere]

After watching M7 I definitely feel that Alto's attitude toward Ranka is very similar to Basara's feelings toward Mylene.

The annoying little sister you love and want to see happy but in a strictly platonic way.

Most people I think are waiting for either the 1st giant battle or the 1st major relationship argument before really talking about him.

[cerrian]

I'm a little surprised that Alto isn't getting more love even though he's one of the most interesting male mecha anime leads in a decade.




Totally agree with you here. I think part of the reason is that we truly haven't had a chance to explore the depth of his character in combination with the fact that Ranka and Sheryl tend to dominate the scenes they are in. We'll probably get a better understanding of Alto with the upcoming battles that puts him apart from the girls.

[4Tran]

Alto is fairly interesting in his own right, but it's when he interacts with other characters where he really shines. Macross Frontier is one of those few anime where the most interesting characters are also the leads. Of them, Sheryl is an absolute gem, and Alto is pretty awesome as well. Ranka isn't quite up to their level, but her character has come a long way in episode 5 and 6.

[Wesley84]

I don't particularly like Alto when he interacts with Ranka or Sheryl. He's much more interesting being hazed by the SMS, and the inevitable confrontation with his father will be one for the books.

[ani_d]

Alto's not getting any love compare to Ranka and Sheryl? I wonder if it has anything to do with the ratio of guys and girls here. As for me, I sure like Alto. He's one of those ordinary highschool male characters that I can watch all day. And that says a LOT. ^_^

Honestly, I thought Luca was the main character because he was the first guy who was given screentime (I'm talking about the preview episode 1 here) and we saw Alto getting teased by Michael on the side. I hate that they took that scene out in the official first episode. Anyway, Alto struck me as one of those interesting secondary characters that takes the spotlight away from the main character--kind of like how Kanda is in D.Gray Man. So when I found out he was the main character (coupled with his interesting encounter with Ranka), I became interested. It's all Alto's fault.

Btw, I had nooo idea this mecha show gives a lot of importance to romance until I saw the first OP theme lol

[cerrian]

It's a pity they cut out the scene of Alto and the paper airplane as shown in Deculture. That one scene had essentially set the foundation of Alto's character from which the series would build off of. It showed his passion for flying, the aggravation of living in a dome city, and his fiery temper at being called a "hime". That scene did as much for Alto's character development as did all of eps 1-6 combined.

[Sepiraph]

Alto's passion for flying reminded me of Isamu Dyson, character-wise he is somewhat more prudent and cool-headed. I like the fact that he isn't your typical clueless male when he is with Sheryl and Ranka. In fact, that's one of the reasons why Sheryl likes Alto, because he acts quite natural with her.

[squaresphere]

I really hope the relationship with his father gets flesh out more later. Though I really can't see how they would jump back to that since he's part of SMS and even his father probably doesn't have the kind of clout to break a military contractor agreement.

[Wesley84]

Alto's passion for flying reminded me of Isamu Dyson, character-wise he is somewhat more prudent and cool-headed. I like the fact that he isn't your typical clueless male when he is with Sheryl and Ranka. In fact, that's one of the reasons why Sheryl likes Alto, because he acts quite natural with her.

He treats them nice, keeps it respectful, and isn't awkward to be around. He's casual and listens to them, takes in whatever they have to give, and doesn't exaggerate his responses. He doesn't nitpick.

[4Tran]

You think the fact he looks like a girl helps them feel comfortable talking to him? The first episode seemed to imply that with Ranka.
It's probably a bit of an icebreaker in Ranka's case, but I don't know if it'd affect any of his other relationships.

I doubt it for Sheryl; she's not really a character who seems to care what anyone else looks like. Klein Klan and Cathy haven't shown that they particularly care, and the only other girl that Alto's shown to have any interaction is Nanase - and they've known each other before the show started.

[CaptGloval]

I think we should start counting how many VF-25s Alto piloted were wrecked.

[herbert]

I think we should start counting how many VF-25s Alto piloted were wrecked.
good idea. At current rate, Alto would soon surpass Hikaru in breaking variable fighters.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Wonder if those things come out his pay check.

[Wesley84]

Hard to say if the one from the training exercise was totalled or not.

[ReddyRedWolf]

An arm (still a civvy), a leg ("trainning exercise with a Vajra") and now an entire VF-25.

As Ozma said that thing is expensive.

[Wesley84]

An arm (still a civvy), a leg ("trainning exercise with a Vajra") and now an entire VF-25.

As Ozma said that thing is expensive.

It's just his way of asking for a custom rig.

[NoOneKnowS]

It's just his way of asking for a custom rig.

And that VF wasn't his to begin with too. I do wish he'd get a customize VF for himself. Or at least have his VF custom painted.

[Pathis87]

And that VF wasn't his to begin with too. I do wish he'd get a customize VF for himself. Or at least have his VF custom painted.

Lol don't think he will get it custom painted , cause that Bobby would so spray "hime" on it in pink :heh:

[squaresphere]

While Alto's great as a Valk pilot in Gerwalk and fighter mode, I kinda think he's only average at best in battleroid mode. This could be the fact the he was way more experiance flying than ground combat.

[Tak]

While Alto's great as a Valk pilot in Gerwalk and fighter mode, I kinda think he's only average at best in battleroid mode. This could be the fact the he was way more experiance flying than ground combat.

As far as I am concerned, the 'princess' is still in training. We will have to see how his character develops. His inability to hold against two smaller Vajras in a closed compartment is not a testimony of his 'less-than-desirable' battroid skills. The odds were against him, the terrain, the units, everything. Otherwise, he held up pretty well against Quran during the training as battroid. In fact, he was shot while in fighter mode.

- Tak

[4Tran]

It's just his way of asking for a custom rig.

And that VF wasn't his to begin with too. I do wish he'd get a customize VF for himself. Or at least have his VF custom painted.
As a rule, there isn't a whole lot of leeway for customization in the Macross shows. Macross Frontier already pulls off as much as we normally see with Alto in a standard configuration (white), Ozma in a commander setup (grey), Michel as long-range support (blue) and Luca as communications and sensors (green). I expect Alto to close out the show with the same model white VF-25 that he's used all along. The obvious exception to all of this is Macross 7, but it doesn't count for all sorts of reasons.

While Alto's great as a Valk pilot in Gerwalk and fighter mode, I kinda think he's only average at best in battleroid mode. This could be the fact the he was way more experiance flying than ground combat.

As far as I am concerned, the 'princess' is still in training. We will have to see how his character develops. His inability to hold against two smaller Vajras in a closed compartment is not a testimony of his 'less-than-desirable' battroid skills. The odds were against him, the terrain, the units, everything. Otherwise, he held up pretty well against Quran during the training as battroid. In fact, he was shot while in fighter mode.
I think that the more telling point is that it's Alto's inexperience and recklessness that led to him getting shot up so much. I wouldn't be surprised it it ends up being the reason he gets chewed up next. I also expect that he'll get shot up another time or two before Macross Frontier is over.

[Anh_Minh]

It's true he does seem to have problems paying attention. Though I suppose it's impossible to stay 100% focused, 100% pf the time.

[vision33r]

After watching 9 episodes, I think the voice acting of Altoh is mediocre. Ranka Lee hasn't been great either but Altoh probably the weakest compared to other lead male voice actors from other anime series.

Altoh's character design is also a bit shallow, but I will give it some time to develop.. but perhaps its pretty common the most popular character is usually not the main one.

I'm guessing most people are fans of either Sheryl or Ranka, followed by Ozama and then maybe Mikhail.

[Tak]

After watching 9 episodes, I think the voice acting of Altoh is mediocre. Ranka Lee hasn't been great either but Altoh probably the weakest compared to other lead male voice actors from other anime series.

Could you provide at least an example? Because I think Nakamura is doing a good job on him. As for Ranka's voice, that is mostly deliberate. Her role was intended to be played by an amateur. Ranka Lee's voice would be Nakajima's first.


I'm guessing most people are fans of either Sheryl or Ranka, followed by Ozama and then maybe Mikhail.

It would appear that folks over at the Chinese forums are rabid fanboys of Sheryl. Personally, I am more of a Quran Quran fan myself. Then again, I am also a Milia fan...

- Tak

[Westlo]

Alto's kinda been a blank slate atm, especially compared to Sheryl and to a lesser extent Ranka. I think Nakamura has also done a fine job but he just hasn't been given much to work with yet since all Alto seems to do so far is yell and blow stuff up, or get annoyed by Sheryl/Michael and yell at them.

Alto/Nakamura should get more shine once it gets into the details with his father as well as when the love triangle starts to really move.

[Wesley84]

It was hinted at that he's just going with the flow right now. He's not doing anything for himself or for the long term.

[vision33r]

Could you provide at least an example? Because I think Nakamura is doing a good job on him. As for Ranka's voice, that is mostly deliberate. Her role was intended to be played by an amateur. Ranka Lee's voice would be Nakajima's first.



It would appear that folks over at the Chinese forums are rabid fanboys of Sheryl. Personally, I am more of a Quran Quran fan myself. Then again, I am also a Milia fan...

- Tak

If you listen to Nakamura's tone, he sounds a bit too old for a 17 yr old boy. Especially in Ep 9, Altoh is either yelling or he's acting as snobbish as Kanda from D.Grayman.

Can't blame him too much, Altoh is a pretty boring character so far.

[Swampstorm]

There's nothing wrong for a character to sound older than they are, especially if it's a matter of their circumstances. I never would have imagined that Sheryl was really 17 until she started spending time around Alto, but that's simply a consequence of growing up too fast. Likewise, if Alto was on the stage from age 10, it's not surprising that he would have had to have matured fairly early. There's also the issue of having run away from home; he would have had to have learned to fend for himself much earlier.

From the earlier episodes, Alto clearly feels like he has a lot to prove. I suspect that part of his confrontation with Michael in episode nine resulted from the statement that Alto is 'playing war'. Seeing how upset Alto was over his inability to do anything while trapped in episode three, it's not surprising that it's a sensitive issue for him.

[ani_d]

After watching 9 episodes, I think the voice acting of Altoh is mediocre. Ranka Lee hasn't been great either but Altoh probably the weakest compared to other lead male voice actors from other anime series.

Altoh's character design is also a bit shallow, but I will give it some time to develop.. but perhaps its pretty common the most popular character is usually not the main one.

I'm guessing most people are fans of either Sheryl or Ranka, followed by Ozama and then maybe Mikhail.

I disagree with this post about Alto both in character design and the voice actor. I see Nakamura as anything but mediocre. His portrayal of Alto is filled with emotions if you compare it to the other characters that he voiced so far. Alto is a hotblooded pretty boy who is struggling to be acknowledged by everyone. That's exactly how Nakamura portrayed him. I was sure I'd recognize his voice anywhere after I heard him from Shugo Chara, but I didn't even recognize Alto had the same bishounen voice because of the amount of feelings he put in this character. Only an excellent VA can pull that.

Seriously, the way he shouted "fire!" at Mikhail with such strong emotions. How can that be mediocre? :| The tension was totally there.

And the character designs. I hope you're not expecting for a character with a DBZ hair or something, because I personally think a male pilot who looks like a princess is something I've never seen before in mecha animes. It's both funny and interesting that Alto can compete with the girls in terms of looks and yet still be hotblooded. I think his long hair is an eyecatcher plus the fact that it isn't gravity defying should be credit enough. Also, the way he wore his uniform tells a lot about his character. There's nothing shallow about his designs at all.

[Tak]

If you listen to Nakamura's tone, he sounds a bit too old for a 17 yr old boy. Especially in Ep 9, Altoh is either yelling or he's acting as snobbish as Kanda from D.Grayman.

Can't blame him too much, Altoh is a pretty boring character so far.

Well, news flash, in anime, age DOESN'T matter. Sheryl certainly sounds a lot older than what her 'official' age would dictate.

Sure, its ok if you don't like Alto (although most of us would disagree), but to say he sounds older than he should as an argument simply won't be very convincing.

- Tak

[vision33r]

I disagree with this post about Alto both in character design and the voice actor. I see Nakamura as anything but mediocre. His portrayal of Alto is filled with emotions if you compare it to the other characters that he voiced so far. Alto is a hotblooded pretty boy who is struggling to be acknowledged by everyone. That's exactly how Nakamura portrayed him. I was sure I'd recognize his voice anywhere after I heard him from Shugo Chara, but I didn't even recognize Alto had the same bishounen voice because of the amount of feelings he put in this character. Only an excellent VA can pull that.

Seriously, the way he shouted "fire!" at Mikhail with such strong emotions. How can that be mediocre? :| The tension was totally there.

And the character designs. I hope you're not expecting for a character with a DBZ hair or something, because I personally think a male pilot who looks like a princess is something I've never seen before in mecha animes. It's both funny and interesting that Alto can compete with the girls in terms of looks and yet still be hotblooded. I think his long hair is an eyecatcher plus the fact that it isn't gravity defying should be credit enough. Also, the way he wore his uniform tells a lot about his character. There's nothing shallow about his designs at all.

That's what makes him so boring to watch and Mikhail pretty much owned that episode. My girlfriend and I watched it and thought Mikhail was much cooler overall and his seiyuu did a pretty good job of portraying his business like character.

Altoh's seiyuu so far hasn't shown any charisma. Hikaru was a scrub compare to Altoh but he was convincingly a more down to earth and a nicer guy of course.

We'll see, my criticism represents what we learned and seen of Altoh so far. The scripting of Macross F hasn't been AAA so far anyways.

[nines]

Bah i dont undertstand this situation with Princess Altoh x.x so far all i can comprehend is that he was a cross dresser as a kid and his dad punched him and now he hates him o.o.

[Tak]

You should not be surprised if Alto did cross-dress in his 'younger' days. That is what Kabuki actors do, they cross-dress. Of course, his 'feminine' features do not help.

Alto is partially there to make fun of conventional anime tradition, where most main characters are, well, feminine. Personally, I take it pretty much as an in-joke.

Alto's strength isn't charisma, but at least he is so far very decisive about what he wants to do. Hikaru on the other hand, was never as decisive as Alto, a trait I dislike about him the most. Keep in mind that these are two different characters, they are not supposed to be the same. People should learn to accept the character as who he is, and not trying to apply traits from past legends. That just won't work.

Besides, if they are indeed paying homage, the guy with the charisma is always the guy with glasses, ok?

- Tak

[Wesley84]

I wouldn't say Alto's decisive. He's casual, reckless, and fairly simple. He'll be decisive when something complicated comes along and he takes action while appreciating the situation.

[Tak]

I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far. Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.

- Tak

[Wesley84]

I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far. Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.

- Tak

When you say it like that, part of me suspects he'll be performing Kabuki again by series end. :heh:

[herbert]

I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far.

It's not a mutiple choice question and you don't need pick one between decisiveness and indesciveness since people can have totally different criterions. He is better Ranka but far worse than his mistress in this case.


Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.
Does he have the right to pick? I wonder.

[Wesley84]

Does he have the right to pick? I wonder.

They owe him life-debts. Multiple ones in fact. Their lives belong to him, and are his do with as he wishes. He just needs to lay down the law first.

[herbert]

They owe him life-debts. Multiple ones in fact. Their lives belong to him, and are his do with as he wishes. He just needs to lay down the law first.
Like Sheryl would give a damn about it. Need I remind you the last part of ep8? It's Sheryl forgiving not thanking Alto and Alto is happy enough with it.

[Wesley84]

Like Sheryl would give a damn about it. Need I remind you the last part of ep8? It's Sheryl forgiving not thanking Alto and Alto is happy enough with it.

Alto's allowed Sheryl to define the debt on her own terms. Doesn't change the fact she's attached to him by the hip.

[Tak]

It's not a mutiple choice question and you don't need pick one between decisiveness and indesciveness since people can have totally different criterions. He is better Ranka but far worse than his mistress in this case.

And he knows what those criterion are and sought to meet them. That is him being decisive. He does not waver between decisions, and makes up his mind quickly, so far.


Does he have the right to pick? I wonder.

This is Macross, it has a love triangle, you tell me.

- Tak

[4Tran]

That's what makes him so boring to watch and Mikhail pretty much owned that episode. My girlfriend and I watched it and thought Mikhail was much cooler overall and his seiyuu did a pretty good job of portraying his business like character.
I don't know... I find Alto to be one of the more interesting male leads in a long time. However, his character hasn't been explored all that much in the last few episodes, so hopefully we'll get more development there over the next few.

Altoh's seiyuu so far hasn't shown any charisma. Hikaru was a scrub compare to Altoh but he was convincingly a more down to earth and a nicer guy of course.
Hikaru is a much more down to earth guy than Alto is. That's sort of the point of their respective characters. Hikaru started out as a guy caught in larger events just trying his best to cope. Alto is very different in that he's not particularly normal, being a kabuki actor who's trying to pull some distance away from his father. Moreover, he's a bit of a narcissist; a character aspect which everyone uses to makes fun of him.

They owe him life-debts. Multiple ones in fact. Their lives belong to him, and are his do with as he wishes. He just needs to lay down the law first.
It doesn't really work that way, and the more important thing is that Alto doesn't look at either Ranka or Sheryl in a romantic light yet.

Alto's allowed Sheryl to define the debt on her own terms. Doesn't change the fact she's attached to him by the hip.
That's hardly surprising given how overwhelming Sheryl's personality is. It'd take someone with an awful lot of force of will to overcome that, and Alto has managed to score a point or two on her.

[vision33r]

I said he is decisive so far, because he knows what he wants for himself. So far. Between Ranka and Sheryl? I don't know, but we'll see.

- Tak

Decisive? Like joining the military and put life at risk without even thinking of the dangers? Hikaru thought about joining the military for awhile, it took 1 whole episode for him to decide.

Altoh is much similar to what you find in Gundam series where the main hero goes from student to ace pilot without knowing what the risks are.

For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?

Hikaru was more down to earth, he later questioned himself what is he really fighting for.

So far we have not seen or feel what's going on in Altoh's mind except he wants to be better than his Sempai, which makes him no different than Isamu, a reckless hot shot.

[Tak]

Decisive? Like joining the military and put life at risk without even thinking of the dangers? Hikaru thought about joining the military for awhile, it took 1 whole episode for him to decide.

And how many episodes do you want him to decide?! It took Hikaru pretty much one episode too, to join the fight. And why are you comparing Hikaru again? Alto is not Hikaru, he is not meant to be Hikaru. Alto is Alto, and Hikaru is Hikaru. I'd rather see Alto making snap judgments, even if these judgments proved to be a mistake in the long run (and I hope you are not expecting anyone to be perfect, because you'd just end up disappointed), but at least he is making a decision. I rather see someone making decisions like that than wavering for eternity, like Hikaru with certain issues. Moreover, he is also young. I don't know how old you are, but I hope you are not expecting Alto to have a mentality of a 50 year old. Hell, I know I still want to be part of something 'big', even if there were life-threatening involved. Fighting the Vajra, soaring through the stars, and becoming part of something big were what he wanted. Ozma did ask if he was sure, and well, he made his decision. Moreover, he is at least being responsible for the decisions he made.

And I hope you did not miss the practical side of him joining SMS. Look, he piloted the VF-25 to save Ranka, at the time without thinking of joining the military or the SMS. However, after he done just that, the military came and gave him two choices, join the military or suffer the consequences. Well, he picked a third, but negotiable choice of joining SMS. If I was in his place, I'd probably do the same, too.

Speaking of Hikaru's 'thought about this n' that', that long drag between Hikaru and his love-triangle annoyed me to no friggin end, and even at the end of the original TV series, I can still see that he wasn't too sure if Misa was who he wanted. If it wasn't for DYRL that redeemed Hikaru, I probably wouldn't like him as much.


Altoh is much similar to what you find in Gundam series where the main hero goes from student to ace pilot without knowing what the risks are.

If he was a Gundam Ace, he'd hijack the VF-25, not receive any formal military training and becoming an ace in 30 minutes (like you know, they just... get it, because it works like magic!)


For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?

Does anyone specifically need a reason for fighting? The vast majority of the men and women who serve the world's military do not have a specific reason to kill the enemies perceived by the respective countries they serve in. They are sent to wars because the government told them they had to, and that the military offered more prospects to their lives than perhaps the options that were available to them, nothing more.

If only people with specific reasons for fighting were available, we wouldn't have a military. I am sorry, but that was pretty naive coming out of you.


Hikaru was more down to earth, he later questioned himself what is he really fighting for.

So what if he questioned himself what he was fighting for? That answer became clear to him, and didn't take long for him to figure out. I rather like Hikaru being down-to-Earth and simpler minded than Kira Yamato or Shinn Asuka whining to no end about their role. But once again, Hikaru is Hikaru, Alto is Alto, I think its time you best accept that fact.


So far we have not seen or feel what's going on in Altoh's mind except he wants to be better than his Sempai, which makes him no different than Isamu, a reckless hot shot.

Really? Did he really want to be better than his sempai? I don't see that coming out from him. I have not seen anything specific involving him expressing just such tendency. As for Isamu, he didn't even have a sempai, and he went to Earth not because he wanted to pick a fight against Guld but to prove to UN SPACY that human pilots are still more worthy than artificial ones. On the other hand, it was Guld who wanted to prove he was better than Isamu, not the other way around.

Reckless as Isamu may be, at least he knew what he wanted. Because you know, if Sharon Apple won, Isamu would lose his job (if not his life)... thats a good enough of a reason for fighting for me.

- Tak

[4Tran]

Decisive? Like joining the military and put life at risk without even thinking of the dangers? Hikaru thought about joining the military for awhile, it took 1 whole episode for him to decide.
I'm not sure why you're comparing Alto and Hikaru, but Hikaru joined the military for relatively frivolous reasons. The very role of the characters is different: for example, Hikaru was meant to be a pov into the kind of things that young soldiers get themselves into when fighting a war of survival. Macross Frontier isn't that kind of show, so it shouldn't be surprising that the protagonists are very different as well.

For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?
I'm not sure why a character needs to have some sort of overriding reason like the loss of a relative to fight, but that's not really the way Alto is put together. In the first episode, it's stated quite clearly that he values the freedom of flying, and that this freedom isn't available under normal conditions (he even shot down the option of flying commercially). In episode 5, this notion is reinforced to set up the parallel that Alto's urge to fly is much like Sheryl's (and Ranka's) urge to sing - it comes naturally, and they have a desire to express it.

That this flying comes with combat is almost a side effect; while Alto doesn't have a particular desire to destroy the Vajra, it's a necessity of what he does - in this extent, it's much like Tak pointed out: soldiers often don't get a choice about this kind of matter.

Hikaru was more down to earth, he later questioned himself what is he really fighting for.
A good portion of that comes from the fact that he joined up for a relatively trivial reason to begin with.

So far we have not seen or feel what's going on in Altoh's mind except he wants to be better than his Sempai, which makes him no different than Isamu, a reckless hot shot.
That isn't really true at all. We know about his urge to fly, and there's a strong suggestion that this is a reaction to the strictures that he was under from his father. Alto may be a bit on the reckless side, but he's no hotshot; and I haven't seen any indications that he's a gloryhound (aside from his performance of the corkscrew in episode 1).

[Swampstorm]

Alto is partially there to make fun of conventional anime tradition, where most main characters are, well, feminine. Personally, I take it pretty much as an in-joke.
Actually, one thing that I really like is that they haven't made it exclusively into a joke; it looks like it's going to be a serious plot point for his backstory as well.

Alto's allowed Sheryl to define the debt on her own terms. Doesn't change the fact she's attached to him by the hip.
Sheryl defined the debt on her own terms because Alto wouldn't have it any other way. You can't live life on your own terms if you're busy feeling indebted to others. Sheryl gave Alto the means to resolve his own feelings of obligation to her.

If love was the same thing as dependance, then strong willed people could live without it. There's a difference between being attached at the hip to someone and attaching yourself to someone's hip. :p

This is Macross, it has a love triangle, you tell me.
Ranka chooses Sheryl. ;)

For Altoh's case, what's his reason for fighting? Did the Vajira killed his parents or loved ones?
Taken right out of episodes four and nine. It's not just you; ths is also the question that all of Alto's fellow pilots are levelling at him. Everyone around him has their share of emotional scars. Alto is different; why would he give up his sheltered life to come and "play war"?

I'm looking forward to see how it gets answered. It's still possible for him to secretly be harboring a tragic past, but those are rather commonplace nowadays. I suspect that this has more to do with Alto's issues with his father and his desire to stand on his own.

Alto looked rather shocked when Michael said that it was only a matter of time before Alto gets killed or kills someone, during their talk in the elevator during episode 3. So they could theoretically go the Top Gun route with this too. :heh:

[nines]

Like Alto said he just feels like he was meant to fly and he also starting feeling like he had to help Ranka out seeing how shes always in a bad situation. So simply hes just always wanted to be in a Valkyrie maybe he likes the fact that he saves people and shit but he has no ultimate reason of being a pilot other than he was meant to

[herbert]

Like Alto said he just feels like he was meant to fly and he also starting feeling like he had to help Ranka out seeing how shes always in a bad situation. So simply hes just always wanted to be in a Valkyrie maybe he likes the fact that he saves people and shit but he has no ultimate reason of being a pilot other than he was meant to
Spare Alto, OK? Last time I checked, he wasn't born as the gurdian of Ranka. If you need a better reason for his choice of flying. Here is one: he is dreaming that one day he can fly with Sheryl. Poor one, I admit, but is better than your savior one.

As for Ranka, she better helps herself than wait others help her. Or quit singing is a good choice as well. Similiar to what you said about Alto, she has no ultimate reason of being a singer other than she was meant to.Well, at least Alto has some fun at flying, Ranka only has pain in singing.

[ReddyRedWolf]

Alto does not have a hero complex people.

In one of his gripes was that he couldn't do a damn thing during a crisis.

Remember Alto said that is wasn't him Ranka should thank.

Seeing Gilliam die and the SMS wanting to hear how Gilliam did in his last moments had an impact on Alto.

Now he is one of them.

[Anh_Minh]

I'd say Alto has two reasons for wanting to fight the Vajra:
- a man died to save his life. That made him feel small and helpless. He later felt helpless again, when he was stuck in the shelter. (Though he did get to see Sheryl's boobs, so maybe he should be feeling grateful to the Vajra?)
- they made Baby Ranka cry.

They're not necessarily the chief reasons he joined the SMS, but they're there.

I don't think he wants to surpass Michel so much as that he chafes under Michel's leadership. Different views, and of course he gets teased a lot, which he apparently doesn't appreciate. Can't blame him.

[vision33r]

I re-watched Episode 9 again, this time I read Altoh's lines more carefully..

When Michel said "Is the princess done playing war games here" it really ticked him off.

Then Altoh said to himself, the reason he's here is not playing war games but.... then he stopped.. he did say it has nothing to do with running away from his kabuki family tradition.

He never really mentioned a reason.

When Sheryl questioned Altoh about joining SMS on the phone, he said he all he really wants to do is fly just like Sheryl wants to sing and perform. She mentioned why join the military(SMS), then Altoh mentions SMS isn't the military. It's basically a covert ops.

I personally don't care what's Altoh's reason to fight, many animes like Bleach or even even D.Grayman the main hero just wants to protect good from evil and is self-righteous in their own ways, it's an appealing thing with teens.

[Traece]

He joined SMS because he wants to fly. But at the same time he also wants to protect the people he cares about.

The best way to put this is: Alto joined the SMS to fulfill his need to fly freely and meet the desires of his pilot heart, while protecting the ones he cares about and the women that love him so they too can fulfill the dreams they're passionate about.

[withered_joy]

I have to say I like Alto more and more. I thought I won't like guys-that-look-too-much-like-a-girl (esp. with long hair) anymore, not to mention hot-headed brash newbies to war that make a fool out of themselves...but Alto proved to be an exception. I love how he's full of pride and thus holds firmly on his principles, and he's not aiming to be a saint (lots of points for that) and isn't interested in pop culture, thus treating Sheryl like a normal girl (more points). Oh yeah, those, and his lack of perversity (loads of points for that. I hate harem stuff). His slow reaction relationship-wise just cracks me up all the time. Typical, at least in Asian stereotypical standards.
As for the reason for him to fight...Alto just wants to do something. He doesn't want to be ignorant of reality. I think anyone who's strong-willed would also want to at least do something instead of feeling helpless and useless, not after seeing what damage the Vajra can cause. He's still 17, most young people are still filled with passion and self-righteousness and justice whatever. However, I think Michel is somewhat right about him not being serious. He's quite brash and thus he doesn't consider the consequences of his actions. If he was serious he'd use his head a bit more. But that's also his merits, I guess. Sometimes instinct prevails, as in episode 7. But most of the time brash actions cause people's demise. No doubt he'll learn it the hard way. Destroying bunches of VF-25s aren't enough for him to reflect on his recklessness.

I'm particularly interested in hime-sama's past though. Haha I sort of want to see him playing a kabuki scene, and I want to know why he ran away from his father. Hopefully those will be revealed soon.

[kei25]

I'm particularly interested in hime-sama's past though. Haha I sort of want to see him playing a kabuki scene, and I want to know why he ran away from his father. Hopefully those will be revealed soon.


http://blog-imgs-21.fc2.com/c/h/a/champagnes/1212730534486s.jpg (http://blog-imgs-21.fc2.com/c/h/a/champagnes/1212730534486.jpg)

I did some research myself :p

The one mentioned in ep10 is called 『桜姫東文章』　さくらひめあずまぶんしょう (sakura hime azuma bunsyou)

Here even has a short clip -->
http://www2.ntj.jac.go.jp/unesco/kabuki/jp/5/5_04_16.html

As Kaiserin says, it involves quite a lot http://www2.ntj.jac.go.jp/unesco/kabuki/jp/5/images/ttl_5_04_16_sub-02-01.gif"nureba" ( Love scenes :heh:).

I wish they could make a special, maybe for the DVD, just for Alto-kun's performance 3 years ago....

Forgot one thing.. A major theme of that kabuki-play is "男色" ( sort of "Brokeback M" ~~

The real life Sakura-hime character.
http://www.engeki.co.jp/engekikai/img/cover2004_09.jpg
played by Tamasaburou in 2004
The costume does look like the one in the anime


I'm really into Kabuki now....orz

Just find another one -- Fuji Musume, which also makes a few frames in MacrossF
http://komica.dreamhosters.com/22/src/1212964803141.jpg
Here is a clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPgtX-ljHi4
Tamasaburou also plays this character.
Probably Kawamori is a big fan of him ... just like the director in ep10 to Alto...orz

[withered_joy]

http://blog-imgs-21.fc2.com/c/h/a/champagnes/1212730534486s.jpg (http://blog-imgs-21.fc2.com/c/h/a/champagnes/1212730534486.jpg)

I did some research myself :p

The one mentioned in ep10 is called 『桜姫東文章』　さくらひめあずまぶんしょう (sakura hime azuma bunsyou)

Here even has a short clip -->
http://www2.ntj.jac.go.jp/unesco/kabuki/jp/5/5_04_16.html

As Kaiserin says, it involves quite a lot http://www2.ntj.jac.go.jp/unesco/kabuki/jp/5/images/ttl_5_04_16_sub-02-01.gif"nureba" ( Love scenes :heh:).

I wish they could make a special, maybe for the DVD, just for Alto-kun's performance 3 years ago....

Forgot one thing.. A major theme of that kabuki-play is "男色" ( sort of "Brokeback M" ~~

The real life Sakura-hime character.
http://www.engeki.co.jp/engekikai/img/cover2004_09.jpg
played by Tamasaburou in 2004
The costume does look like the one in the anime


I'm really into Kabuki now....orz

Just find another one -- Fujihime, which also makes a few frames in MacrossF
http://blog29.fc2.com/t/tlatv/file/20080425101710.jpg
Here is a clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPgtX-ljHi4
Tamasaburou also plays this character.
Probably Kamamori is a big fan of him ... just like the director in ep10 to Alto...orz

Haha I also did research, some dude posted a link to an info site somewhere but I forgot where. Probably was in episode 10 discussion. But yeah. Alto's character was a prostitute who was from a fallen noble family, I think. Must've dented Hime's big ego. Maybe he ran aways because he doesn't want to play that role anymore.

Like...
Alto: Dude, dad. I don't want these weird guys coming up to me with flowers and proposals. I wanna quit this role. People keep thinking I'm a girl. They really think I'm a prostitute. I don't want to play this thing anymore."

*SLAP*

"You suck! I'm going to join the pilot course to prove that I'm a man!"

But in the end he gets labeled as the Princess anyway.

[Westlo]

Haha he had to do love scenes no wonder he said a kiss wasn't nothing to him, though of course a kiss with Sheryl and Ranka is a different story.

[Swampstorm]

Haha he had to do love scenes no wonder he said a kiss wasn't nothing to him, though of course a kiss with Sheryl and Ranka is a different story.
Actually, he became embarrassed as soon as he heard that there was a kiss, well before Mao's original actress was injured and Ranka was chosen as a replacement. But maybe it was just his lack of experience with kissing a girl? :heh:

[withered_joy]

Actually, he became embarrassed as soon as he heard that there was a kiss, well before Mao's original actress was injured and Ranka was chosen as a replacement. But maybe it was just his lack of experience with kissing a girl? :heh:

LOL. I never thought about that. So true. And he was acting so cool when he said "meh, a kiss is nothing."

[Isegrim]

Sakurahime azuma bunshou (http://kabuki21.com/sakura_hime.php) and Fuji Musume (http://www.kabuki21.com/fuji_musume.php) at kabuki21.com.

[CaptGloval]

Not sure a kiss is involved in kabuki love scenes. They say it's composed of stylized actions.

[Tak]

Not sure a kiss is involved in kabuki love scenes.

Well, no, back in the days when Kabuki was at its height, doing something like that on stage would have been illegal.

- Tak

[daimonth]

Alto is probably traumatized from trying to empathisize with Sakura Hime. That is why he isn't picking up all the cues.

Altos father: Don't try to act, become the character, yes become a 17 year old girl who got raped then developed stockholm syndrome and falls in love with her rapist. Who then gets sold into prostitution by the rapist and end up killing her own son.

That has got to be mentally damaging for a 14 year old....

[Tak]

Altos father: Don't try to act, become the character, yes become a 17 year old girl who got raped then developed stockholm syndrome and falls in love with her rapist. Who then gets sold into prostitution by the rapist and end up killing her own son.



Just a quick note. Prostitution and Geisha are not the same. Geisha endured in Japanese history because they were women in a unique position to be 'independent' and decide for themselves whats best for them.

- Tak

[Delphin]

Hiya. somebody write yet ?
Alto's kanji-name is 有人 by novel
http://bp1.blogger.com/_vJiriS2hqos/SGRkDM4zzxI/AAAAAAAAAIA/_4obprhlNxY/s200/alto.jpg
http://bp3.blogger.com/_vJiriS2hqos/SGRi2QvYWlI/AAAAAAAAAH4/nqBhm8HUCGU/s200/51voZOqJhKL._SS500_.jpg

[Tak]

Hiya. somebody write yet ?
Alto's kanji-name is 有人 by novel


I guessed as much.

since his daddy is a Kabuki freak and obviously old fashioned, thus the names :p

- Tak

[Wesley84]

Alto is probably traumatized from trying to empathisize with Sakura Hime. That is why he isn't picking up all the cues.

Altos father: Don't try to act, become the character, yes become a 17 year old girl who got raped then developed stockholm syndrome and falls in love with her rapist. Who then gets sold into prostitution by the rapist and end up killing her own son.

That has got to be mentally damaging for a 14 year old....

He got owned. Forget pilot school, murder wouldn't have been out of the question. The nerve to disown him as well.

On the other hand, his performance apparently caused a great deal of people to emphathisize with his character. That being the case, he couldn't stop at just his father. He would really have to hunt down every last person who saw it...

[Delphin]

嵐蔵 ranzo is 女形 oyama too
and Alto's mother is already dead.

from novel.

[Wesley84]

嵐蔵 ranzo is 女形 oyama too
and Alto's mother is already dead.

from novel.

Kind of figured that from the flashbacks of him and the paper airplane. I've figured that his flying fetish is tied into him missing his mum.

[kari-no-sugata]

To resurrect an old question:
If Alto hates being called princess, why doesn't he just get a goddamn hair cut? That's my only complaint I have with the series.

Alto definitely doesn't like being treated like a girl. He certainly doesn't act girlish - I wonder if he's deliberately trying to be more "manly" to compensate for his life on the stage as a girl...?

So why not go further and cut his hair? I suspect it may be related to his mother in some way (like that talisman he carries around his neck). He comes across someone who's past has affected him deeply and he's trying to break away from it, but can't let it go entirely.

On a related note, I was re-watching episode 1 and when Ranka says he looked like a beautiful girl he immediately gets very annoyed and shouts at her, but when Ranka is surprised at his reaction he immediately moderates himself. It looks to me like he's been teased too much about his looks (and so reacted quickly and angrily) but then realised Ranka's comments were meant in an innocent way. It also seems that meeting her made him decide to do the corkscrew manoeuvre anyway.

[IHaveCrayons]

Can someone please tell me how to make Alto's paper airplane?

[mike_s_6]

My theory about Alto's hair? It reminds him of his mom. Who in my guess, is also a pilot.

[TwilightHack]

Can someone please tell me how to make Alto's paper airplane?
its easy...

1) Take a paper and fold it hamburger style (so its wide, not long).
2) Unfold.
3) Take top corners and fold down along the crease so top is triangle shape
4) Fold paper along crease (flaps inside).
5) Take open ends and fold down to make wings.
6) Fold tips of wings up.

Simple!

I don't see how he made one out of a napkin at Nyan Nyan. From experience, napkin material isn't sturdy enough to make a good plane.

[ani_d]

To resurrect an old question:


Alto definitely doesn't like being treated like a girl. He certainly doesn't act girlish - I wonder if he's deliberately trying to be more "manly" to compensate for his life on the stage as a girl...?

So why not go further and cut his hair? I suspect it may be related to his mother in some way (like that talisman he carries around his neck). He comes across someone who's past has affected him deeply and he's trying to break away from it, but can't let it go entirely.

On a related note, I was re-watching episode 1 and when Ranka says he looked like a beautiful girl he immediately gets very annoyed and shouts at her, but when Ranka is surprised at his reaction he immediately moderates himself. It looks to me like he's been teased too much about his looks (and so reacted quickly and angrily) but then realised Ranka's comments were meant in an innocent way. It also seems that meeting her made him decide to do the corkscrew manoeuvre anyway.

I would hate Alto if he cuts his hair:heh:

Ranka's impact on Alto is rather interesting actually. Episode 1, he started out as a teenager who couldn't fly the way he wants to, but his silly meeting with Ranka suddenly reversed this and made him feel like he can push himself further---even if his corkscrew maneuver flopped lol Incidentally, Ranka was also the girl who pushed him to ride a Valkyrie and felt responsibility to protect with all his might. When Alto met a dead end on whether he should join SMS or not, it was Ranka and her song that empowered him to take a step forward to join the SMS---no matter how much of a coincidence that meeting was. I'm not sure where I should put his newlyfound concern on Ranka's condition, but I also think this was another one of the reasons that made him want to join SMS.

Piloting a valkyrie and Joining the SMS are both major turning points in Alto's life. Both of those times, Ranka's influence on him was present. They seem to be always drawn together at times where it counts.

Moreso than being able to understand his past, I think what Alto needs is someone who can make him feel like he can do things despite his many flaws.
He connects with his moral strengths whenever he gives advice or support to Ranka. In episode 13, he told Ranka that dwelling on the past is just a waste of time---something he applied to himself. His desperation to save Ranka may also have something to do with what Ranka told him earlier on.

The feeling of hearing someone say, "because you were there for me, I can do this" puts a big effect on his morale because it makes him feel appreciated on a deeper level. Judging from his facial expression, it's safe to say that noone has ever said that to him, and seeing a girl come this far for his sake must've meant a lot. When the planet was swallowed, I thought he would lament for the sky, but his flashbacks were mostly composed of Ranka and him. I'm guessing he wasn't kidding when he said Ranka gave him the best present the moment she marched to Galia--all for him.

In a way, both him and Ranka have a positive effect on each other--especially to Ranka. I have a feeling all of the 'wise sayings' Alto keeps throwing on Ranka will be thrown back at him near the end once Ranka matures more as a character. We'll see. This is also just from my observation of Alto, but he seems to be more attracted moe looking girls instead of hot bombshells. He blushed easily when he saw Ranka do the "chu" expression and Ranka didn't have to shove her assets to his face:heh: Maybe he's less immune to prettier girls since he's pretty himself? lol

[magnuskn]

As I just got back from work and I am feeling pretty lazy and tired, what exactly is the definition of "gar yelling"? I know it´s a pretty usual trope for anime characters, but I´ve seen the reference before and as Alto does it a lot, I´d like to know why it such a common thing with male heroes. I hope you lend me your anime expertise. :)

[ickem]

As I just got back from work and I am feeling pretty lazy and tired, what exactly is the definition of "gar yelling"? I know it´s a pretty usual trope for anime characters, but I´ve seen the reference before and as Alto does it a lot, I´d like to know why it such a common thing with male heroes. I hope you lend me your anime expertise. :)

I believe it has something to do with a hypermasculine yell that can overwhelm even hetero males into fawning over a guy. :p

[magnuskn]

I believe it has something to do with a hypermasculine yell that can overwhelm even hetero males into fawning over a guy. :p

<snerk> Seems to have just the opposite effect on me. When Alto begins his trademark "Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!!!", I´d like to give him a slap on the back of his head and firmly tell him "Hey, Ozma is much more badass than you and keeps his cool almost all the time!".

[justinstrife]

As I just got back from work and I am feeling pretty lazy and tired, what exactly is the definition of "gar yelling"? I know it´s a pretty usual trope for anime characters, but I´ve seen the reference before and as Alto does it a lot, I´d like to know why it such a common thing with male heroes. I hope you lend me your anime expertise. :)

Kamina from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the perfect example of Gar. Not to mention my favorite character in that series. What can I say, makes me want to yell out with full masculine pride and wish I was in the scenes kicking butt and taking names too. :heh:

[magnuskn]

Kamina from Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is the perfect example of Gar. Not to mention my favorite character in that series. What can I say, makes me want to yell out with full masculine pride and wish I was in the scenes kicking butt and taking names too. :heh:

Hmm, okay. Not exactly what I am feeling when Alto starts his yelling, that´d be more like "Shut up and do your thing, dude." :D

[BleachOD]

Before we get into shipping. I am going to tell you what I think about their characters. Then...move to romance thread



Suki members that don't read or watch Bleach(Sinners!!!)

Hello I am BleachOD. Resident Bleach Otaku and Ichigo Fangirl.

We met earlier. Normally when I log on I can't see any word but Bleach...then everything is a blur. I am an Otaku for Manga and Anime. But normally I don't care enough about any series to post in it. Lately Macross has become visible so I took a look. I guess some of you felt I maligned your favorite character...some random noob. The others who knew me thought I was going to go all rabid shipper and I didn't so you didn't feel I explained myself well and now have doubts.

I didn't plan to opine. But thanks to Westlo<--Name change Westly... inflecting enough disgust for me in his post.(I love people like that. Go figure)
Eurys's HUGE blow to my ego<--breaking point. Crack comment made by Cris. I found the motivation I was looking for to post in here for real...

Earlier this week...I threatened to hijack the thread...that's still my aim. But first I want to clear up a few things...

1. Ignore everything but cocky attitude and threats. I was sleep deprived. Please don't hold it against me. I get like that...not that much
2. If you haven't noticed I am cocky, braggart and have HUGE ego. (Not a good description to start out with...but I swear. I am really lovable)
3.Opinions are like A-holes. Remember everyone has one. I don't care if you agree. respect my views and I will respect yours.
4. I like to tease and I trash-talk but it's all in fun. When we leave this thread I don't care who you ship. No hard feelings...
5. Snide remarks of post length and Grammar...will roll right off me. If you continue to insult me..without doing so, while you are making a valid point.... Make no bones about it. ...I will assume it's because you are stupid. :uhoh:
I give nicknames...however call me OD or I will ignore you.<--- Quirk...of mine

6.I will defend the ship I chose to the end....but you will learn if you don't already know me...
7. Let's have fun because as soon as I see Ichigo...most likely you will never see me again.
8. Don't bite me and I won't bite you (I bite really hard and some of you might have rabies. So please don't go there)
9. I fear NO ONE...
10. I may threaten to, maim, kill you, or gnaw off a limb. It's all fun. Harmless jokes. (You can do the same. If you are serious you will learn. If I set you afire you can't do shit. So don't even come to my house )

THE SMILEYS STAY. Not everyone dislikes them!(Don't worry I didn't use here.)

Btw...when I said I would pwn users and take over the thread...I didn't mean just win arguments (Even I am not right all the time. Maybe 9 times out of 10)
(In a nutshell. Since I care enough to discuss it I wanted to make sure my posts don't get ignored and discuss it. In other words. You guys are as frenzied as me. I want to sit here and psychoanalyze the characters and their relationships with you. *Bid for Attention*:D) I don't want a Hostile Take Over... :uhoh::heh: Sorry about that...:uhoh::p
I also meant that not only will "I Post with substance" but I will delight and steal the show...Thereby owning thread
Listen we can't start out going tit for tat . However for my first real non Bleach post. It will be long enough and these statements made me see that it's imperative that we do it another way...

You have some nerve parading around your 99.9999% successful prediction on pairings when you're a walking Cloti! :hehEr...No. If you remember I didn't say I was 99.9999% successful prediction of this couple... However unlike that other one...this team has real chance
IchiRuki is Canon. But I am not thinking about that. I am confident I can eventually change your views on characters....and my posting ability.
And the ability to garner support for Ranka.

.

Cris...if I am your favorite IchiRuki crusader...You know I hate BLEACHOD...CALL ME OD!!!:frustrated:

So you are saying what Sheryl had accomplished thus far, by herself, is all due to just, erm... luckNo...I did not.

Edited by OD

All's fair in love triangle debate, no?
I'm just honestly puzzled by your lack of coherent and convincing arguments,<--HUGE BLOW TO EGO as well as by your double-standard concerning Ranka and Orihime, because believe me, they are the same archetype.
I thought you were the kind of women who enjoyed strong confident and proactive female characters, but I only see you repeat how Ranka is the cutest loli ever...
I don't know, it just...radically changed my opinion of you<-- "Finishing move!"
No bad feelings though.One. I like different characters for different reasons. Just like I do people.
Orihime's emo-stalker ass...is NOTHING LIKE RANKA. I aim to show you... See we can't start like that.... So how about I play my position? I will tell you my viewpoint. That way you will know what beliefs I actually have and what is assumption.
Then you can attack me and I can defend...

With that said... Let's dance!





Character Analysis:Saotome Alto

Cris you cited that as part of the reasons Alto and Ranka don’t suit (That one sentence I have to address more than once. Be sure to read all of them).

You said you believed that was bad advice Alto gave to Ranka. You said it was because “Alto’s running from his own problems”
What are Alto's Problems?

Alto’s perceived problems:
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4283/altospercievedproblemsrio4.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrio4.jpg) http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5765/altospercievedproblemsrzw3.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrzw3.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/813/altospercievedproblemsrnb6.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrnb6.jpg) http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8459/altospercievedproblemsrhy5.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrhy5.jpg) http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6264/altospercievedproblemsrsi0.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrsi0.jpg)
Click on the thumbnails. Every time you turn around, someone’s (implying that Alto is running from something.
It is always inferred; he is really an actor and this is just another role. He’s high off “Playing the Hero”
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3739/altospercievedproblemsrpa3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrpa3.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7866/altospercievedproblemsrwp4.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrwp4.jpg) http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8426/altospercievedproblemsrit6.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrit6.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2713/altospercievedproblemsrak8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrak8.jpg)
However that isn’t Alto’s problem. The problem being…



What Alto’s problems really are:


For one thing…NOBODY is listening to him.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/386/altosrealproblemdoubtet5.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosrealproblemdoubtet5.jpg)
He isn't running from anything!

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8596/nobodyslisteningtoaltoxj8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoaltoxj8.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/630/nobodyslisteningtoalto2nt4.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto2nt4.jpg) http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/237/nobodyslisteningtoalto3eh5.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto3eh5.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5485/nobodyslisteningtoalto4xt7.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto4xt7.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6118/nobodyslisteningtoalto5zg4.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto5zg4.jpg)
Did you click on those thumbnails?:uhoh: Everyone keeps saying “Are you running away?" He keeps on saying "that’s not it!" He even says what it is…
He does not want to be an actor. “I am sick of leaving my destiny in the hands of others” He doesn’t want to continue with Kabuki just because he has “The cursed-blood of an actor” Look at his reaction when seeing his father.
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/4194/altosproblemskabukialphqb6.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabukialphqb6.jpg) http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2752/altosproblemskabuki0jpgrp6.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabuki0jpgrp6.jpg) http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2827/altosproblemskabukiva4.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabukiva4.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9769/altosproblemskabukilastsq5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabukilastsq5.jpg)
He thinks about his Kabuki days and for a minute freaks out.

Scenes later…When you see him in his Valkyrie.He thinks about his father again (And Ranka) then says “Just you watch!”
He wants to decide for himself and has. His only problem with his decision is…No one takes it seriously..
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5002/nobodyslisteningtoalto6sd9.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto6sd9.jpg) http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/486/nobodyslisteningtoalto7lp6.th.jpg (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto7lp6.jpg)


Dude wants to be a pilot!! “I became a pilot of my own desire” “I am not running away!” How many times does he have to say that?! Look at him. He mentions the sky, he’s daydreaming about the sky when the word “Atmosphere” is mentioned. He’s making paper planes for chrissake!! The man wants to be a pilot.

That’s why when Sheryl asks “would he like to fly in a real sky?” He chose to go with her over Ranka. He didn’t really want to hurt her so he left Michel behind to explain.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1220/altosdreamsoftheskywi3.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsoftheskywi3.jpg) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/690/altosdreamsofthesky2jpgwz8.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky2jpgwz8.jpg) http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2038/altosdreamsofthesky3il0.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky3il0.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5954/altosdreamsofthesky4uy0.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky4uy0.jpg) http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2909/altosdreamsofthesky5sb6.th.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky5sb6.jpg)
Alto has a love for the sky. He loves it so much he wants to be a pilot. He just can’t get anyone to listen to him…

Emasculation is another problem for Alto.
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3218/altosrealproblemdoubt2ep3.th.jpg (http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosrealproblemdoubt2ep3.jpg)

Alto has problem with people taking him seriously; seeing him as a man. He has humiliating suffix “Hime” attached to his name. He is constantly mocked, called a coward and his manhood is attacked by everyone he knows; even Sheryl.
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8315/emasculationofaltoalto1ur0.th.jpg (http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto1ur0.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1987/emasculationofaltoalto2cp0.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto2cp0.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6251/emasculationofaltoalto3mx5.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto3mx5.jpg) http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9250/emasculationofaltoalto4uh2.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto4uh2.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1156/emasculationofaltoalto5xt3.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto5xt3.jpg) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5273/emasculationofaltoalltoht6.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltoht6.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4523/emasculationofaltoalltowj8.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltowj8.jpg) http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3091/emasculationofaltoalltojv0.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltojv0.jpg) http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9498/emasculationofaltoalltoql6.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltoql6.jpg)

“I am not too keen on dressing as a woman”
Did you click on the thumbnails?
Alto is very touchy when it comes to his looks. Because of them and his former profession he always likened to a girl; never a Man.

He feels emasculated by Sheryl…He even implies this when Michel is asking him to think about “Why Sheryl bothers to hang around him in the first place”
His reply…. http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1379/shedoesntseemasaman0ex1.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shedoesntseemasaman0ex1.jpg) http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3952/shedoesntseemasamanyn6.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shedoesntseemasamanyn6.jpg)

He doesn’t seem to think that Sheryl sees him has a man. He didn’t even consider that she would at all. No one ever does.

This is one of the reasons, why I believe he is so dependent on Ranka. (<--Yes I think it’s the reverse.) He doesn’t feel emasculated when he’s around her. In fact it’s the opposite... Let me show you

Alto's dependency on Ranka

this is a perfect example.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6837/altosdependancyonrankasqq5.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonrankasqq5.jpg)
Look at Alto…He’s standing tall. He’s confident and very manly.
He’s assuring her that everything will be all right if she will just depend on him.

Another Example of his dependency on Ranka
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1096/altosdependancyonranka0us9.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka0us9.jpg) http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9000/altosdependancyonranka2gf4.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka2gf4.jpg) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7338/altosdependancyonranka3xy4.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka3xy4.jpg)

Again…Ranka calls for help. Look at his face…He actually looked stunned when she called him “Someone is relying on me” is what his face seems to be saying. Right away he hurries and calls her. (He just doesn’t get an answer)

Another Example…
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9801/altosdependancyonranka1xp9.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka1xp9.jpg) http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6580/altosdependancyonranka1qv2.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka1qv2.jpg)
Ranka’s need or should I say desire for Alto’s support actually made him happy. He does not feel bothered by it all. He encourages her by being there whenever she needs him. The only time he isn’t there… is when he can’t be there for her. Otherwise it’s no bother and he never complains.
Another Example…Ranka tells Alto that she wanted to him to be the first to know she’d been scouted. However she didn’t think she should bother him.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2562/altosdependancyonranka4lx8.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka4lx8.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4165/altosdependancyonranka6kw3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka6kw3.jpg) http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4497/altosdependancyonranka7pm3.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka7pm3.jpg) http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8595/altosdependancyonranka8rg6.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka8rg6.jpg) http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9196/altosdependancyonranka9ld0.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka9ld0.jpg)

After playfully tapping Ranka on the head; he then says “Why are you still so hesitant?” He’s actually encouraging her to become dependent on him.
Alto has been all but physically castrated…By protecting her, supporting Ranka, by being her rock; He can feel self-worth. He can feel like a “Real Man”.

What I believe is a BIG misconception: (I have seen this mentioned a few times) “Alto’s being pressured into responsibility for Ranka.”

No; he assumed that responsibility on his own. Since he first met her he’d decided that he would be her rock.
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3563/altosassumedresponsibilec9.th.jpg (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilec9.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4456/altosassumedresponsibilud3.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilud3.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4374/altosassumedresponsibilbr0.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilbr0.jpg)
He tells Michel this “It’s an obligation…More like my duty”<--WTF?:uhoh: Why does he think that?
No one forced Ranka onto Alto he chose the responsibility himself. Like I said before he’s dependent on
Ranka…He needs to be her rock. (So he can feel like he still has some his tama left…if you know what I mean)
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/576/altosassumedresponsibildb6.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibildb6.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9172/altosassumedresponsibildw5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibildw5.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6370/altosassumedresponsibilyk0.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilyk0.jpg)

An aspect of Alto’s personality that I believe is often overlooked (Especially when it comes to pairings)
He’s prettier than most women.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8484/hesasprettyassheissohecgm7.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesasprettyassheissohecgm7.jpg)
He was a famous and loved star in his own right. He had his own fan following.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3021/hesafamousassheisac2.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesafamousassheisac2.jpg)http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2176/hesafamousassheis3bb3.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesafamousassheis3bb3.jpg)

He is not going to be easily impressed by looks or fame.

His statement about Sheryl in episode one, alone confirms that this could be more than just an assumption. (As well as a couple of others...He makes.)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8615/hesasprettyassheissohecex4.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesasprettyassheissohecex4.jpg)
He asks “What makes her the Galactic Fairy?” He can’t see it. You know why? Because of the reasons stated…

Ok...Digest that. when I come back I will explain why I said Sheryl is insecure and needy. I will also say why I believe Ranka is the "Strong One" and the one with the most potential for character development

And why after watching and dissecting this...Ranka has more than %80 chance for win.

[Swampstorm]

So, to summarize, you're saying that by having Ranka depend on him, Alto is able to compensate for his insecurities about appearing feminine. A girl who can surpass him in terms of determination and willpower represents a threat to his masculinity, so he needs to retreat instead to the security of a senpai-kohai relationship in order to feel manly. In Freudian terms, by enacting the role of the father figure in their relationship, he becomes the one who castrates, rather than the one who is castrated.

Sounds like the beginnings of a healthy relationship. :heh:

[justinstrife]

So, to summarize, you're saying that by having Ranka depend on him, Alto is able to compensate for his insecurities about appearing feminine. A girl who can surpass him in terms of determination and willpower represents a threat to his masculinity, so he needs to retreat instead to the security of a senpai-kohai relationship in order to feel manly. In Freudian terms, by enacting the role of the father figure in their relationship, he becomes the one who castrates, rather than the one who is castrated.

Sounds like the beginnings of a healthy relationship. :heh:

That's what I got out of it too. :heh::heh::heh:

[Tak]

He asks “What makes her the Galactic Fairy?” He can’t see it. You know why? Because of the reasons stated…

Only to eat those words right back in the same episode. Oops.

- Tak

[ickem]

So, to summarize, you're saying that by having Ranka depend on him, Alto is able to compensate for his insecurities about appearing feminine. A girl who can surpass him in terms of determination and willpower represents a threat to his masculinity, so he needs to retreat instead to the security of a senpai-kohai relationship in order to feel manly. In Freudian terms, by enacting the role of the father figure in their relationship, he becomes the one who castrates, rather than the one who is castrated.

Sounds like the beginnings of a healthy relationship. :heh:

Thank you for the summary, that layout of that thing was too hard to read so I just skipped it...

Don't you know? dependency in a relationship is in again!

[stray]

Before we get into shipping. I am going to tell you what I think about their characters. Then...move to romance thread


...I can't even disagree I'm so overwhelmed with how elegant that post was laid out...

Some really good points tho, OD... need coffee before I can make more coherent analysis tho.

[daimonth]

There is no doubt that Altos no 1 passion right now is flying. At the same time his every action spoke of his upbring and his actor heritage. If you are missing the Oyama aspect of Alto then you are not pay attention and need to rewatch the whole series. Though to save you the trouble, just rewatch him posing in front of mirror and his fight with the Pixies with his Kabuki pose. It is because of this aspect that lead people to question whether or not he can give up acting completely since it is such an important part of him.

People don't listen to what he says because his action don't dispel that suspicion...Unless you are of the mind that people in anime and real life always mean what they say.

We don't know what happened before the series start, however, to close that chapter of his life he would need closure that apparently, judging from his actions and those around him, that he havent achieved.

In terms of Romantic dynamics I don't think I need to add anymore because others have already state the problem there.

As far as Alto not being awed by Sheryls status... thank you for agreeing with Sheryls observation... it's only 9 episodes late.

[magnuskn]

Well, hey, OD, that actually was a really nicely done analysis. And devoid of annoying mega-smileys, too. Nice.

Your points are well taken, although I´d say that this dependency on having Ranka as someone who looks up to him is definitely a bad thing for Alto.

As such, I´d hope that he gets over it and hooks up with someone who actually likes him for who he really is ( defensive jackass with a good heart ) instead of some statue on a pedestal ( what Ranka is doing right now ).

Now I am really interested to see if you can actually convince me that Sheryl is insecure. Because that will take some work, I tell ya. :)

[Anh_Minh]

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is). For example, when she was about to play Mayan girl B, and was obviously trolling for encouragement, and Alto told her, "Yeah, you're right, you probably can't.", she wasn't surprised at all. She knows he can be a bit of jerk sometimes. And there's also the fact that, whether he himself accepts it or not, he is a hero. He has, time and time again, put his own life on the line to save hers. Sure, he hasn't always (ever?) been 100% successful in saving her with his own two hands. That's where she's... mistaken. But is it that important? The point is, he's tried, and been reasonably competent at it.

[cerrian]

Any chance I can get a 1 or 2 paragraph summary.

That thing is a huge mess and utterly fails to communicate the author's point clearly. Honestly, it's entirely the wrong writing format for this kind of communication medium (thread forums). Probably better off putting that in a blog or something.

[Tak]

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is).

I absolutely don't see this as a healthy relationship at all. I myself would never want to engage in a relationship where I cannot receive valuable input to improve my character through interactions with my significant other.

Ranka's relationship with Alto is currently a crush, where she'd accept anything he dishes out. Her attitude thus far is borderline obsession, not one of equal standing.

Seeing them together does not give me a feeling of an actual relationship, but one of submission.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

I'm not denying Ranka has a crush, but she's not the one who's slowed down her career to spend more time with him. As obsessions go, it's pretty mild.

[justinstrife]

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is). For example, when she was about to play Mayan girl B, and was obviously trolling for encouragement, and Alto told her, "Yeah, you're right, you probably can't.", she wasn't surprised at all. She knows he can be a bit of jerk sometimes. And there's also the fact that, whether he himself accepts it or not, he is a hero. He has, time and time again, put his own life on the line to save hers. Sure, he hasn't always (ever?) been 100% successful in saving her with his own two hands. That's where she's... mistaken. But is it that important? The point is, he's tried, and been reasonably competent at it.
She knows he's a jerk based on that? :twitch:

And beyond Alto saving her life, and looking like a girl, and liking to fly, what else does Ranka know about Alto? She still knows so little about him after 14 episodes, and her view of him has been the same since episode 2 when he saved her, that it's hard to take her crush seriously.

[Anh_Minh]

She knows he's a jerk based on that? :twitch:
Do you mean "How can you conclude she knows he's a jerk based on that one scene?" or "Do you mean she's learnt he's a jerk based on that one remark?"? Either way, it's not like he's a secret jerk or anything. He has a rough manner. For example, he didn't even feign polite interest when she got scouted. I'm sure she had plenty of occasions to see him angry and/or surly. They don't look that rare. She also knows that despite it all, he's a nice guy. Not a huge secret either.

And beyond Alto saving her life, and looking like a girl, and liking to fly, what else does Ranka know about Alto? She still knows so little about him after 14 episodes, and her view of him has been the same since episode 2 when he saved her, that it's hard to take her crush seriously.
Yes, she didn't google him or anything, so she knows little about his past. But heck, it's his past (emphasis on "his" and "past"). Why would she snoop and/or pry? Other than that, she understands him well enough. It's not like he's complicated. "Nice guy, very touchy, bit of a grouch."

[Terra]

So you're saying you'd happily go out with someone long term who you basically knew nothing about apart from very base info. No thanks. I'd like to know more about that person. Their likes, dislikes. Knowing a bit about their past is part of getting to know what this person is like. It's hard to have a good relationship when a person hides things. And so far Ranka has shown no interest in breaking Alto's shell to get to know him properly. She just likes the shell. It's totally the wrong thing to be looking at for a relationship.

[Tak]

Yes, she didn't google him or anything, so she knows little about his past. But heck, it's his past (emphasis on "his" and "past"). Why would she snoop and/or pry? Other than that, she understands him well enough. It's not like he's complicated. "Nice guy, very touchy, bit of a grouch."

You know again, how is that healthy. She knows next to nothing about the man she loves, not even his desire to fly. She doesn't even bother trying to get to know him, not even for once probed about his past.

Yes, you said its Alto's past, and that its his business. True, but Ranka doesn't even realize how Alto feels about his past at all, does she? She never tried. Whenever they are together, you do realize the only thing Ranka talks about is herself, yes? She never bothered to know. Besides, Alto is a pretty famous person on his own right, but Ranka doesn't know about it despite it being public knowledge. Its always her, her and her. Her priority is more important than anything else.

But Alto has no problem sharing some of his past with Sheryl, does he? No. In fact, Alto was almost too eager sometimes to share it when he had the chance to do so. Therefore, he is not too annoyed about sharing his past, provide people ask the right questions.

That is why Sheryl knows about Alto's desire to fly and thus offered him that very present on his birthday. That is why when Sheryl and Alto are together, their interactions seem more genuine. As for Ranka? Her relationship with Alto is nothing more than a crush.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

So you're saying you'd happily go out with someone long term who you basically knew nothing about apart from very base info. No thanks. I'd like to know more about that person. Their likes, dislikes. Knowing a bit about their past is part of getting to know what this person is like. It's hard to have a good relationship when a person hides things. And so far Ranka has shown no interest in breaking Alto's shell to get to know him properly. She just likes the shell. It's totally the wrong thing to be looking at for a relationship.

Who said anything about long term? What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with two teenagers dating because they want to. Because they like each other and are attracted to each other. That they don't need to know all the details of each other's past before going out have dinner together. Whether they can build something more from there, it's something they can see later.

But Alto has no problem sharing some of his past with Sheryl, does he? No. In fact, Alto was almost too eager sometimes to share it when he had the chance to do so. Therefore, he is not too annoyed about sharing his past, provide people ask the right questions.
Actually, when has Alto ever mentioned his past to anyone? He's answered one of Sheryl's question about his love, or lack thereof, for Frontier. That's how she knew he wanted to fly in a sky.

[Tak]

Actually, when has Alto ever mentioned his past to anyone? He's answered one of Sheryl's question about his love, or lack thereof, for Frontier. That's how she knew he wanted to fly in a sky.

My point exactly, because Sheryl bothered asking! And that Alto isn't irritated at all to answer.


What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with two teenagers dating because they want to. Because they like each other and are attracted to each other.

Funny, Lacus and Kira aren't older than Sheryl and Alto, but you've never used the 'teenager' excuse when discussing about them. Besides, this is Macross, being a teen is hardly an excuse.

- Tak

[Anh_Minh]

Wait, what? When, exactly, have I ever tried to defend the Kira x Lacus pairing? (I don't recall ever needing to.) But sure, why not? For the record, I have no objection either to Kira and Lacus dating because they want to.

Also, you need an excuse to date?

My point exactly, because Sheryl bothered asking! And that Alto isn't irritated at all to answer.
And my point is that it isn't precisely the heart-to-heart you're trying to pass it off as. Neither is it him "discussing his past". You also have to take the circumstances into account, but whatever.

[Tak]

Also, you need an excuse to date?


Not usually, but since this is Macross, and being a teen is hardly an excuse for hallow relationships.





And my point is that it isn't precisely the heart-to-heart you're trying to pass it off as. Neither is it him "discussing his past". You also have to take the circumstances into account, but whatever.

Because it is not just her asking questions, but also Alto asking questions back! There is clear interaction between the two whenever they are together.

On the other hand, Ranka doesn't ask Alto questions and vise versa. What they see in each other beyond their appearance is highly questionable. Thus, again, like a lot of people here, we just don't see how that particular relationship is going to work.

- Tak

[Terra]

Who said anything about long term? What I'm saying is that there's nothing wrong with two teenagers dating because they want to. Because they like each other and are attracted to each other. That they don't need to know all the details of each other's past before going out have dinner together. Whether they can build something more from there, it's something they can see later.


Actually, when has Alto ever mentioned his past to anyone? He's answered one of Sheryl's question about his love, or lack thereof, for Frontier. That's how she knew he wanted to fly in a sky.

If they were strangers who'd just met then that's fine. You do take time to take to know someone before commiting. But they're friends who are now at the same school and have friends in common. Yet it doesn't appear she's even asked them anything about Alto.

In ep 10 when she finds out that he used to be an actor, she's disappointed that she appears to be the only one who didn't know. Yet earlier in that same ep Alto had given hints to her about it when he gave that advice to her. Instead she just goes even more fangirl over him knowing about acting too, yet never bothered to ask how he knows, or ask their friends how he might know. She put herself in that position to be disappointed at not knowing. They've known each other long enough to be past the shell and to start to know something more about each other.

As for Sheryl, she understands he's touchy about his past and is slowly opening him up. Yes it was just one question, but to get such an easy reply out of him isn't easy. He bottles his feelings up and generally doesn't share. So that fact she got something out of him shows not only is she trying, but she's starting to succeed. And she's doing it the right way by not pushing the subject.

Ranka's self absorbed and hasn't tried to get to know the real Alto despite having had plenty of chances to do so. Yes she finally managed to catch Alto's attention, but I can't see it lasting. It's all based on the wrong things.

[stray]

Because it is not just her asking questions, but also Alto asking questions back! There is clear interaction between the two whenever they are together.

On the other hand, Ranka doesn't ask Alto questions and vise versa. What they see in each other beyond their appearance is highly questionable. Thus, again, like a lot of people here, we just don't see how that particular relationship is going to work.

- Tak

They talked or texted at least once an episode for most of the episodes up to 11... I mean maybe it's not deep "I hate Frontier... there's no sky here." "Really? Well, I hated Galaxy, too!!!" pillow talk but that doesn't necessarily mean AltoXRanka isn't legitimate. I mean, if you really have feelings for someone it's not always easy to open up... which, ironically, they were able to do to a point at the waterfall in 13.

Which isn't to ship AltoXRanka, per se; AltoXSheryl have great banter, and an interesting thing going; and he does respond to her prodding... but alot of times it seems like (especially in the conversation above) their opening up to each other seems based on mutual angst, as opposed to a blossoming relationship.

[ani_d]

Before we get into shipping. I am going to tell you what I think about their characters. Then...move to romance thread



Suki members that don't read or watch Bleach(Sinners!!!)

Hello I am BleachOD. Resident Bleach Otaku and Ichigo Fangirl.

We met earlier. Normally when I log on I can't see any word but Bleach...then everything is a blur. I am an Otaku for Manga and Anime. But normally I don't care enough about any series to post in it. Lately Macross has become visible so I took a look. I guess some of you felt I maligned your favorite character...some random noob. The others who knew me thought I was going to go all rabid shipper and I didn't so you didn't feel I explained myself well and now have doubts.

I didn't plan to opine. But thanks to Westlo<--Name change Westly... inflecting enough disgust for me in his post.(I love people like that. Go figure)
Eurys's HUGE blow to my ego<--breaking point. Crack comment made by Cris. I found the motivation I was looking for to post in here for real...

Earlier this week...I threatened to hijack the thread...that's still my aim. But first I want to clear up a few things...

1. Ignore everything but cocky attitude and threats. I was sleep deprived. Please don't hold it against me. I get like that...not that much
2. If you haven't noticed I am cocky, braggart and have HUGE ego. (Not a good description to start out with...but I swear. I am really lovable)
3.Opinions are like A-holes. Remember everyone has one. I don't care if you agree. respect my views and I will respect yours.
4. I like to tease and I trash-talk but it's all in fun. When we leave this thread I don't care who you ship. No hard feelings...
5. Snide remarks of post length and Grammar...will roll right off me. If you continue to insult me..without doing so, while you are making a valid point.... Make no bones about it. ...I will assume it's because you are stupid. :uhoh:
I give nicknames...however call me OD or I will ignore you.<--- Quirk...of mine

6.I will defend the ship I chose to the end....but you will learn if you don't already know me...
7. Let's have fun because as soon as I see Ichigo...most likely you will never see me again.
8. Don't bite me and I won't bite you (I bite really hard and some of you might have rabies. So please don't go there)
9. I fear NO ONE...
10. I may threaten to, maim, kill you, or gnaw off a limb. It's all fun. Harmless jokes. (You can do the same. If you are serious you will learn. If I set you afire you can't do shit. So don't even come to my house )

THE SMILEYS STAY. Not everyone dislikes them!(Don't worry I didn't use here.)

Btw...when I said I would pwn users and take over the thread...I didn't mean just win arguments (Even I am not right all the time. Maybe 9 times out of 10)
(In a nutshell. Since I care enough to discuss it I wanted to make sure my posts don't get ignored and discuss it. In other words. You guys are as frenzied as me. I want to sit here and psychoanalyze the characters and their relationships with you. *Bid for Attention*:D) I don't want a Hostile Take Over... :uhoh::heh: Sorry about that...:uhoh::p
I also meant that not only will "I Post with substance" but I will delight and steal the show...Thereby owning thread
Listen we can't start out going tit for tat . However for my first real non Bleach post. It will be long enough and these statements made me see that it's imperative that we do it another way...

Er...No. If you remember I didn't say I was 99.9999% successful prediction of this couple... However unlike that other one...this team has real chance
IchiRuki is Canon. But I am not thinking about that. I am confident I can eventually change your views on characters....and my posting ability.
And the ability to garner support for Ranka.

.

Cris...if I am your favorite IchiRuki crusader...You know I hate BLEACHOD...CALL ME OD!!!:frustrated:

No...I did not.

One. I like different characters for different reasons. Just like I do people.
Orihime's emo-stalker ass...is NOTHING LIKE RANKA. I aim to show you... See we can't start like that.... So how about I play my position? I will tell you my viewpoint. That way you will know what beliefs I actually have and what is assumption.
Then you can attack me and I can defend...

With that said... Let's dance!





Character Analysis:Saotome Alto

Cris you cited that as part of the reasons Alto and Ranka don’t suit (That one sentence I have to address more than once. Be sure to read all of them).

You said you believed that was bad advice Alto gave to Ranka. You said it was because “Alto’s running from his own problems”
What are Alto's Problems?

Alto’s perceived problems:
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/4283/altospercievedproblemsrio4.th.jpg (http://img141.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrio4.jpg) http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/5765/altospercievedproblemsrzw3.th.jpg (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrzw3.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/813/altospercievedproblemsrnb6.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrnb6.jpg) http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/8459/altospercievedproblemsrhy5.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrhy5.jpg) http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/6264/altospercievedproblemsrsi0.th.jpg (http://img205.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrsi0.jpg)
Click on the thumbnails. Every time you turn around, someone’s (implying that Alto is running from something.
It is always inferred; he is really an actor and this is just another role. He’s high off “Playing the Hero”
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/3739/altospercievedproblemsrpa3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrpa3.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/7866/altospercievedproblemsrwp4.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrwp4.jpg) http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/8426/altospercievedproblemsrit6.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrit6.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2713/altospercievedproblemsrak8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altospercievedproblemsrak8.jpg)
However that isn’t Alto’s problem. The problem being…



What Alto’s problems really are:


For one thing…NOBODY is listening to him.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/386/altosrealproblemdoubtet5.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosrealproblemdoubtet5.jpg)
He isn't running from anything!

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8596/nobodyslisteningtoaltoxj8.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoaltoxj8.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/630/nobodyslisteningtoalto2nt4.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto2nt4.jpg) http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/237/nobodyslisteningtoalto3eh5.th.jpg (http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto3eh5.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5485/nobodyslisteningtoalto4xt7.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto4xt7.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6118/nobodyslisteningtoalto5zg4.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto5zg4.jpg)
Did you click on those thumbnails?:uhoh: Everyone keeps saying “Are you running away?" He keeps on saying "that’s not it!" He even says what it is…
He does not want to be an actor. “I am sick of leaving my destiny in the hands of others” He doesn’t want to continue with Kabuki just because he has “The cursed-blood of an actor” Look at his reaction when seeing his father.
http://img157.imageshack.us/img157/4194/altosproblemskabukialphqb6.th.jpg (http://img157.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabukialphqb6.jpg) http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2752/altosproblemskabuki0jpgrp6.th.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabuki0jpgrp6.jpg) http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/2827/altosproblemskabukiva4.th.jpg (http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabukiva4.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9769/altosproblemskabukilastsq5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosproblemskabukilastsq5.jpg)
He thinks about his Kabuki days and for a minute freaks out.

Scenes later…When you see him in his Valkyrie.He thinks about his father again (And Ranka) then says “Just you watch!”
He wants to decide for himself and has. His only problem with his decision is…No one takes it seriously..
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/5002/nobodyslisteningtoalto6sd9.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto6sd9.jpg) http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/486/nobodyslisteningtoalto7lp6.th.jpg (http://img235.imageshack.us/my.php?image=nobodyslisteningtoalto7lp6.jpg)


Dude wants to be a pilot!! “I became a pilot of my own desire” “I am not running away!” How many times does he have to say that?! Look at him. He mentions the sky, he’s daydreaming about the sky when the word “Atmosphere” is mentioned. He’s making paper planes for chrissake!! The man wants to be a pilot.

That’s why when Sheryl asks “would he like to fly in a real sky?” He chose to go with her over Ranka. He didn’t really want to hurt her so he left Michel behind to explain.
http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/1220/altosdreamsoftheskywi3.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsoftheskywi3.jpg) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/690/altosdreamsofthesky2jpgwz8.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky2jpgwz8.jpg) http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/2038/altosdreamsofthesky3il0.th.jpg (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky3il0.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/5954/altosdreamsofthesky4uy0.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky4uy0.jpg) http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/2909/altosdreamsofthesky5sb6.th.jpg (http://img237.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdreamsofthesky5sb6.jpg)
Alto has a love for the sky. He loves it so much he wants to be a pilot. He just can’t get anyone to listen to him…

Emasculation is another problem for Alto.
http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3218/altosrealproblemdoubt2ep3.th.jpg (http://img356.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosrealproblemdoubt2ep3.jpg)

Alto has problem with people taking him seriously; seeing him as a man. He has humiliating suffix “Hime” attached to his name. He is constantly mocked, called a coward and his manhood is attacked by everyone he knows; even Sheryl.
http://img239.imageshack.us/img239/8315/emasculationofaltoalto1ur0.th.jpg (http://img239.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto1ur0.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1987/emasculationofaltoalto2cp0.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto2cp0.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6251/emasculationofaltoalto3mx5.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto3mx5.jpg) http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9250/emasculationofaltoalto4uh2.th.jpg (http://img293.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto4uh2.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1156/emasculationofaltoalto5xt3.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalto5xt3.jpg) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/5273/emasculationofaltoalltoht6.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltoht6.jpg) http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/4523/emasculationofaltoalltowj8.th.jpg (http://img244.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltowj8.jpg) http://img501.imageshack.us/img501/3091/emasculationofaltoalltojv0.th.jpg (http://img501.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltojv0.jpg) http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9498/emasculationofaltoalltoql6.th.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/my.php?image=emasculationofaltoalltoql6.jpg)

“I am not too keen on dressing as a woman”
Did you click on the thumbnails?
Alto is very touchy when it comes to his looks. Because of them and his former profession he always likened to a girl; never a Man.

He feels emasculated by Sheryl…He even implies this when Michel is asking him to think about “Why Sheryl bothers to hang around him in the first place”
His reply…. http://img172.imageshack.us/img172/1379/shedoesntseemasaman0ex1.th.jpg (http://img172.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shedoesntseemasaman0ex1.jpg) http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/3952/shedoesntseemasamanyn6.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=shedoesntseemasamanyn6.jpg)

He doesn’t seem to think that Sheryl sees him has a man. He didn’t even consider that she would at all. No one ever does.

This is one of the reasons, why I believe he is so dependent on Ranka. (<--Yes I think it’s the reverse.) He doesn’t feel emasculated when he’s around her. In fact it’s the opposite... Let me show you

Alto's dependency on Ranka

this is a perfect example.
http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6837/altosdependancyonrankasqq5.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonrankasqq5.jpg)
Look at Alto…He’s standing tall. He’s confident and very manly.
He’s assuring her that everything will be all right if she will just depend on him.

Another Example of his dependency on Ranka
http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/1096/altosdependancyonranka0us9.th.jpg (http://img503.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka0us9.jpg) http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9000/altosdependancyonranka2gf4.th.jpg (http://img525.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka2gf4.jpg) http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/7338/altosdependancyonranka3xy4.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka3xy4.jpg)

Again…Ranka calls for help. Look at his face…He actually looked stunned when she called him “Someone is relying on me” is what his face seems to be saying. Right away he hurries and calls her. (He just doesn’t get an answer)

Another Example…
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9801/altosdependancyonranka1xp9.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka1xp9.jpg) http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/6580/altosdependancyonranka1qv2.th.jpg (http://img523.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka1qv2.jpg)
Ranka’s need or should I say desire for Alto’s support actually made him happy. He does not feel bothered by it all. He encourages her by being there whenever she needs him. The only time he isn’t there… is when he can’t be there for her. Otherwise it’s no bother and he never complains.
Another Example…Ranka tells Alto that she wanted to him to be the first to know she’d been scouted. However she didn’t think she should bother him.
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2562/altosdependancyonranka4lx8.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka4lx8.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/4165/altosdependancyonranka6kw3.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka6kw3.jpg) http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/4497/altosdependancyonranka7pm3.th.jpg (http://img516.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka7pm3.jpg) http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/8595/altosdependancyonranka8rg6.th.jpg (http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka8rg6.jpg) http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/9196/altosdependancyonranka9ld0.th.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosdependancyonranka9ld0.jpg)

After playfully tapping Ranka on the head; he then says “Why are you still so hesitant?” He’s actually encouraging her to become dependent on him.
Alto has been all but physically castrated…By protecting her, supporting Ranka, by being her rock; He can feel self-worth. He can feel like a “Real Man”.

What I believe is a BIG misconception: (I have seen this mentioned a few times) “Alto’s being pressured into responsibility for Ranka.”

No; he assumed that responsibility on his own. Since he first met her he’d decided that he would be her rock.
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/3563/altosassumedresponsibilec9.th.jpg (http://img353.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilec9.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4456/altosassumedresponsibilud3.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilud3.jpg) http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/4374/altosassumedresponsibilbr0.th.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilbr0.jpg)
He tells Michel this “It’s an obligation…More like my duty”<--WTF?:uhoh: Why does he think that?
No one forced Ranka onto Alto he chose the responsibility himself. Like I said before he’s dependent on
Ranka…He needs to be her rock. (So he can feel like he still has some his tama left…if you know what I mean)
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/576/altosassumedresponsibildb6.th.jpg (http://img530.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibildb6.jpg) http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9172/altosassumedresponsibildw5.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibildw5.jpg) http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/6370/altosassumedresponsibilyk0.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=altosassumedresponsibilyk0.jpg)

An aspect of Alto’s personality that I believe is often overlooked (Especially when it comes to pairings)
He’s prettier than most women.
http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8484/hesasprettyassheissohecgm7.th.jpg (http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesasprettyassheissohecgm7.jpg)
He was a famous and loved star in his own right. He had his own fan following.
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/3021/hesafamousassheisac2.th.jpg (http://img504.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesafamousassheisac2.jpg)http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/2176/hesafamousassheis3bb3.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesafamousassheis3bb3.jpg)

He is not going to be easily impressed by looks or fame.

His statement about Sheryl in episode one, alone confirms that this could be more than just an assumption. (As well as a couple of others...He makes.)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8615/hesasprettyassheissohecex4.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesasprettyassheissohecex4.jpg)
He asks “What makes her the Galactic Fairy?” He can’t see it. You know why? Because of the reasons stated…

Ok...Digest that. when I come back I will explain why I said Sheryl is insecure and needy. I will also say why I believe Ranka is the "Strong One" and the one with the most potential for character development

And why after watching and dissecting this...Ranka has more than %80 chance for win.

Wow OD. I read your post with the intention of nitpicking any biasness an anti-RankaxAlto fan would say and everytime I find something you counter it with sufficient evidences from the show itself and made me think "Hey, she has a point..."

This behavior of Alto is already something we should already know, but it does make a difference when you have screenshots and detailed analysis to point it out. It just goes to show that despite our moral opinions on how he should act, it is what it is.

Seeing how you took your time to explain this point, you totally proved you're to be taken seriously. I yield. Your character analysis of Alto is more credible than mine.;)

Are we ever loved for who we really are? Are we ever known for who we really are?

You know, I wonder in how much Ranka is blind to his faults (sets him on a pedestal) and how much she sees them, and just doesn't care (loves him for who he is). For example, when she was about to play Mayan girl B, and was obviously trolling for encouragement, and Alto told her, "Yeah, you're right, you probably can't.", she wasn't surprised at all. She knows he can be a bit of jerk sometimes. And there's also the fact that, whether he himself accepts it or not, he is a hero. He has, time and time again, put his own life on the line to save hers. Sure, he hasn't always (ever?) been 100% successful in saving her with his own two hands. That's where she's... mistaken. But is it that important? The point is, he's tried, and been reasonably competent at it.

I'm amazed at how majority can make this truthful post look like a lie. Only here in Sheryl nation. Reminds me of people who condemn innocents during the Blair Witch trials:rolleyes:

I agree very much with this and I'm glad it was brought up. When they first met, Alto indirectly called her an idiot but Ranka wasn't even fazed. He tells Ranka as it is. He doesn't sugar coat things to her. He supports her but if he thinks it's too farfetched, he'll tell her. In episode 3 when Alto frankly told her to let go of his shirt, she passively complied, didn't she? I don't think she was even bothered that Alto was having tantrums and taking it out against her. Ranka is very much aware of how he is and she never faults Alto for it.

When Alto ditched her even after she told him that she has a present for him, Ranka never took it against Alto. It would be so offending to have the guy you like ignore your present for him. I don't know about others, but that's an emotional blow. It's always personal if you put in a lot of effort in it.:) Yet, when Ranka found out Alto's in danger, she basically shunned everyone who got hostaged and thought of nothing but Alto.

Ranka's attraction towards Alto isn't just a lame senpai-kohai one where the kohai is only about the looks and positive things then gets turned off if she finds out the senpai smokes or something. Ranka accepts Alto as it is as well. Is there any part of Alto that Ranka was shown to not like? What is it about Alto that would turn her off and disillusion her feelings for this guy?

Maybe someone here can jot it down. ^_^

She knows next to nothing about the man she loves, not even his desire to fly. She doesn't even bother trying to get to know him, not even for once probed about his past.

Everything you said < Going to Galia 4 despite all odds and risking her life all for him.

[Tak]

Everything you said < Going to Galia 4 despite all odds and risking her life all for him.

Ja, and how well did that turn out? Pfft.


Which isn't to ship AltoXRanka, per se; AltoXSheryl have great banter, and an interesting thing going; and he does respond to her prodding... but alot of times it seems like (especially in the conversation above) their opening up to each other seems based on mutual angst, as opposed to a blossoming relationship.

I am not saying they are close to the stages of a blossoming relationship, but there is interaction, which is undeniable. Sharing mutual angst is well, still sharing. Prior to that, the both of them had nowhere to vent their frustrations.

Sheryl is not afraid to ask Alto questions, and have been trying to know more about him. Yes, so far Alto cannot recognize Sheryl's feelings and that their relationship is hardly a romantic one. Regardless, Alto opens up to Sheryl more so than he does with anybody else. Slowly but surely, and that is a good sign.

- Tak

[mike_s_6]

Yes, she didn't google him or anything, so she knows little about his past. But heck, it's his past (emphasis on "his" and "past"). Why would she snoop and/or pry? Other than that, she understands him well enough. It's not like he's complicated. "Nice guy, very touchy, bit of a grouch."

This may be long-winded, but I just have to make this spiel.

The thing is, Ranka was part of Miss Macross right? So she didn't hear the name of the judges and the name of one of them didn't pique her interest? (Or she was too nervous for her own sake and didn't hear when the names were announced?) Sheryl on the other hand seems to have made the connection instantly. Along her on the same table is an old, seemingly popular Kabuki persona aboard Frontier, surname Saotome...

"Hey, I know someone else named Saotome and he looks very fit for kabuki..."

When Alto was teased "Princess" in High School Queen, look at Sheryl's expression. She was definitely stitching things up. She probably realized that Alto decided not to follow the kabuki tradition of his family, and by the look on his face (apart from his current choice of career), he hates it. Aren't you surprised that she didn't ride on with teasing him?

Ranka all the while, has been around while Sheryl was picking up these clues. I'm partly surprised that Sheryl didn't remind Ranka that one of the judges on the contest she wanted to win was Alto's father, you know. Perhaps our girl really has some tact in there :cool:

[stray]

Sheryl is not afraid to ask Alto questions, and have been trying to know more about him. Yes, so far Alto cannot recognize Sheryl's feelings and that their relationship is hardly a romantic one. Regardless, Alto opens up to Sheryl more so than he does with anybody else. Slowly but surely, and that is a good sign.

Ranka's self absorbed and hasn't tried to get to know the real Alto despite having had plenty of chances to do so. Yes she finally managed to catch Alto's attention, but I can't see it lasting. It's all based on the wrong things.

...honestly, I don't know if Sheryl recognizes Sheryl's feelings right now. I mean, put yourself in Alto's shoes. I know, I know, probably next to impossible... but... try.

I mean, think back to Star Date. Alto doesn't give a crap about who she is, but he had a fun little date with her, a kiss, and when he went to give the earring back... almost kicked out by security. Of course she did then let him hold onto her earring for luck. But... grand scheme of things, that was supposed to be that. A fun little 'fling' for the both of them. Sheryl to go back to Galaxy and Alto back to SMS and maybe Ranka.

Fast forward to next episode; Sheryl can't go back to Galaxy. So, she's all up in his ish, calling him slave at school, and then enrolling in school. And, I mean, Sheryl's come ons are just so sweet in a clueless kind of way, but... push comes to shove, she's still "Sheryl Nome." Even when she's giving him his present, her chest still gives people 'hopes and dreams.'

I'm not trying to make the point that Sheryl is conceited; obviously she is :uhoh:, but my point is: if you were Alto, why would you even fuck with that? Even if you had the hint of insight that she might be interested, she's completely hung up on herself (maybe like a certain famous father figure you've grown to despise), to the point where you would always come second; and at the end of the day, if Galaxy were to show up... would she even bother to stick around?

[cheesie]

Er...No. If you remember I didn't say I was 99.9999% successful prediction of this couple... However unlike that other one...this team has real chance
IchiRuki is Canon. But I am not thinking about that. I am confident I can eventually change your views on characters....and my posting ability.
And the ability to garner support for Ranka.

That wasn't directed to you, that was a comment half said in jest to justinstrife. :D

You said you believed that was bad advice Alto gave to Ranka. You said it was because “Alto’s running from his own problems”
What are Alto's Problems?

Sweets, you should've asked me to elaborate on that first. :) While I believe Alto's passion for flying is genuine, he did shrug off and ran away from his family issues and inheritance in order to pursue his dream. I would expand on this more, but as a matter of fact, the next episode looks like it'll touch on Alto and the Saotome household, as I keep telling everyone, when MF is in the middle of its story, let's just sit back and watch how it unfolds. ;) After it's done, then we'll be talking. :D

Alto's dependency on Ranka (Did you mean Ranka's dependency on Alto, or Alto's dependency on Ranka's dependency on him :heh: :heh: ?)

I'm not sure if you realize it, but this whole passage just saved me the time and effort of showing why I have such a big problem with Alto x Ranka. :)

While I appreciate you typing out your perspective on Alto to me (and I read your messages to me prior to this) I'm going to hold on to this and refrain from entering any discussion about Alto until the series has given enough to work on, especially how he's the least interesting subject for me right now. :rolleyes: This is different from a character analysis on Bleach, as Bleach has 100+ chapters to expand Ichigo's character, and in fourteen episodes, Alto's character development is only beginning to take off. (I'd argue that his character development is heavily entwined with Sheryl's as Ichigo's is with Rukia's, but we all know some will violent disagree on that. :heh: )

[Tak]

...honestly, I don't know if Sheryl recognizes Sheryl's feelings right now. I mean, put yourself in Alto's shoes. I know, I know, probably next to impossible... but... try.

I take it you are trying to say if Alto recognizes Sheryl's feeling right now. Well, obviously not.


I mean, think back to Star Date. Alto doesn't give a crap about who she is, but he had a fun little date with her, a kiss, and when he went to give the earring back... almost kicked out by security. Of course she did then let him hold onto her earring for luck. But... grand scheme of things, that was supposed to be that. A fun little 'fling' for the both of them. Sheryl to go back to Galaxy and Alto back to SMS and maybe Ranka.

Which was an unexpected encounter/experience for the both of them, I would say. One that both feels quite good about.

But, the disappearance of Galaxy was like fate, wasn't it?


Fast forward to next episode; Sheryl can't go back to Galaxy. So, she's all up in his ish, calling him slave at school, and then enrolling in school. And, I mean, Sheryl's come ons are just so sweet in a clueless kind of way, but... push comes to shove, she's still "Sheryl Nome." Even when she's giving him his present, her chest still gives people 'hopes and dreams.'

I'm not trying to make the point that Sheryl is conceited; obviously she is :uhoh:, but my point is: if you were Alto, why would you even fuck with that?

Because through both of their interactions, they have been lowering their emotional guard. Moreover, Alto certainly is fucking with it. After all, although Alto might not realize it, but he had unknowingly volunteered to be involved himself in her activities for the past episodes. Then, he accepted her invitation to fly in the sky that she offered.


Even if you had the hint of insight that she might be interested, she's completely hung up on herself (maybe like a certain famous father figure you've grown to despise), to the point where you would always come second; and at the end of the day, if Galaxy were to show up... would she even bother to stick around?

Yes, she is a famous figure. She knows this, but that facade of her is becoming thinner and thinner around Alto. By episode 14, I can see her suddenly dropping her guard completely when she made Alto promise that he would come back in one piece, then proceed to see him off.

Alto, as usual, is being as oblivious as ever.

With all that had transpired, I don't know how much the Galaxy would mean to her at this point. She has hots for the guy, and she is beginning to realize it. Slowly but surely, that pain will eventually creep up on her.

- Tak

[Teletha]

When Alto ditched her even after she told him that she has a present for him, Ranka never took it against Alto. It would be so offending to have the guy you like ignore your present for him. I don't know about others, but that's an emotional blow. It's always personal if you put in a lot of effort in it. Yet, when Ranka found out Alto's in danger, she basically shunned everyone who got hostaged and thought of nothing but Alto.

Ranka's attraction towards Alto isn't just a lame senpai-kohai one where the kohai is only about the looks and positive things then gets turned off if she finds out the senpai smokes or something. Ranka accepts Alto as it is as well. Is there any part of Alto that Ranka was shown to not like? What is it about Alto that would turn her off and disillusion her feelings for this guy?

BUT she should have! Come on. Why did he get a free pass? Different strokes for different folks I guess, but that's why I can't even begin to like Ranka x Alto. She does let him get away with treating her like crap as long as he's nice enough the next day. What kind of relationship is that even? She's so dependent on him any attention he gives her she's grateful for. She should be better then that. I'm not saying she shouldn't have gone to save him, or forgiven him but there should have been something more there. Moe stars, him getting a tingly feeling about it and giggling in planes just doesn't work for me. They could have actually had a meaningful conversation about why he went there and why he blew her off or why it was important, anything, but they didn't.

Then the second part of what you said basically says why I can't like Ranka as a character much either. She is solely obsessed with Alto and Alto only. Not worrying about anyone else there. Even after the events of episode 12 she didn't care a bit about Sheryl. Ranka accepts Alto, but barely knows anything about him and doesn't ever attempt to know anything about him. Sheryl doesn't know much, but she knows more and she hasn't even admitted to herself, let alone anyone else, that she even likes Alto. She tires to know more. When Ranka doesn't know something, she gets upset she didn't know. Not really because she wants to know, but because she's the only one who didn't know.

I still see Alto x Ranka as hero worship. She excuses his faults because when he's good, he's pretty damn good. I don't think Sheryl would allow him to walk all over her. Just like he's not impressed with her when she acts out and calls her on it. That to me is the makings of an EQUAL relationship, or a possible one at least.

re: the lovely codependent relationship. :heh: Being with Ranka because it makes Alto feel like a manly man just is about the worse basis for a couple ever. That is masking his problem and not dealing with the real issues he might have. He shouldn't have to be with someone to make up for something he lacks. You get in a relationship with someone who brings out the good in you, who compliments you, but not who you have to depend on so much without them you'd be incomplete.

Good lord, sorry for the length. :heh:

[stray]

I take it you are trying to say if Alto recognizes Sheryl's feeling right now. Well, obviously not.

No, I meant Sheryl not understanding her own feelings.

Because through both of their interactions, they have been lowering their emotional guard. Moreover, Alto certainly is fucking with it. After all, although Alto might not realize it, but he had unknowingly volunteered to be involved himself in her activities for the past episodes. Then, he accepted her invitation to fly in the sky that she offered.

He's been... he dabbled, to be fair...

Yes, she is a famous figure. She knows this, but that facade of her is becoming thinner and thinner around Alto. By episode 14, I can see her suddenly dropping her guard completely when she made Alto promise that he would come back in one piece, then proceed to see him off.

Hmm... well they both probably thought the other was dead before then...

With all that had transpired, I don't know how much the Galaxy would mean to her at this point. She has hots for the guy, and she is beginning to realize it. Slowly but surely, that pain will eventually creep up on her.

Having the hots for someone is one thing; changing your lives so you can be together is another. Can go back to SDFM and see how well that worked for Minmay when she decided to stop singing and asked Hikaru to stop flying...

Anyway, I'm not trying to hate on Sheryl, I'm just trying to be realistic (well, in the Macross universe anyway). Alto just doesn't seem to believe in Sheryl much at all, and given his family situations, I can kind of see why he might not. Maybe it's a self fulfilling representation of Alto's attitude. I'm not even going to speculate on how things can change in that regard; but what it comes down to IMO is that no matter how much Sheryl prods or gets to know him it's not going to get her very far. Especially when Alto has got a loli moe to lean on and play hero for every few episodes.

[Swampstorm]

No, I meant Sheryl not understanding her own feelings.I think that she does, actually. In episode seven, for example, she says "I don't know if we'll be able to meet again in this vast galaxy," and is startled to find herself in tears at those words. But soon after, she shows that she recognizes the root cause of those feelings, as her hand reaches out to her missing earring and she dedicates her last song to Alto. It isn't quite love at that point, but she still is able to recognize how much she cares.

Likewise, I'd say that the kiss in episode ten was essentially an unspoken question between the two. I think that she's all too concious that she's in love with him by that point, since she's scared enough not to make the issue any clearer.

Having the hots for someone is one thing; changing your lives so you can be together is another. Can go back to SDFM and see how well that worked for Minmay when she decided to stop singing and asked Hikaru to stop flying...That's actually one very strong plus point for Sheryl's relationship with Alto. In episode six, Sheryl recognizes from the outset that it's Alto's job to pilot, and it's her job to sing. She doesn't restrict Alto in doing what he needs to do. She gives him the strength and the freedom to choose his own path.

This might have been more of a problem, say, if Sheryl had some sort of trauma that made it difficult for her to accept a loved one's need to pilot into battle. But she doesn't appear to have any issues like that lurking in the background. ;)

Alto just doesn't seem to believe in Sheryl much at all, and given his family situations, I can kind of see why he might not.Actually, there are a number of occasions where he's actually been in awe of her. He's often inspired by her strength; he just happens to be unaware that she's also inspired by him. :heh:

[stray]

I think that she does, actually. In episode seven, for example, she says "I don't know if we'll be able to meet again in this vast galaxy," and is startled to find herself in tears at those words. But soon after, she shows that she recognizes the root cause of those feelings, as her hand reaches out to her missing earring and she dedicates her last song to Alto. It isn't quite love at that point, but she still is able to recognize how much she cares.

That goes back to what I was saying about it being a 'fling'. Regardless of what she realized she was feeling at that point, it wasn't going to change her mind about going back to Galaxy.

Likewise, I'd say that the kiss in episode ten was essentially an unspoken question between the two. I think that she's well aware that she's in love with him by that point, since she's scared enough not to make the issue any clearer.

Mmmm... too much personal experience to touch this one objectively. I don't disagree, but...

That's actually one very strong plus point for Sheryl's relationship with Alto. In episode six, Sheryl recognizes from the outset that it's Alto's job to pilot, and it's her job to sing. She doesn't restrict Alto in doing what he needs to do. She gives him the strength and the freedom to choose his own path.

Again, still just a fling at that point...

This might have been more of a problem, say, if she had some sort of trauma that made it difficult for her to accept a loved one's need to pilot into battle. But she doesn't appear to have any issues like that lurking in the background. ;)

:heh::heh::heh:

Actually, there are a number of occasions where he's actually been in awe of her. He's inspired by her strength on a number of occasions; he just happens to be unaware that she's also inspired by him. :heh:

...or unwilling to accept it... It's a slippery slope...

[ani_d]

if Galaxy were to show up... would she even bother to stick around?

SherylxGalaxy ftw;)

BUT she should have! Come on. Why did he get a free pass? Different strokes for different folks I guess, but that's why I can't even begin to like Ranka x Alto. She does let him get away with treating her like crap as long as he's nice enough the next day. What kind of relationship is that even? She's so dependent on him any attention he gives her she's grateful for. She should be better then that

This just proves that the problem here isn't with Ranka herself but some people's opinion. No matter how she acts, her heart is in the right place. The story portrays her devotion to Alto as a good thing, we all can see it, and that's all about that matters whether people agree with it or not.:) I do see why you're having problems with Ranka for not getting mad at Alto when he ditched her. I would get mad too, but the fact is, Ranka didn't and by doing that, the storywriters just made her more likable.

Ranka accepts Alto, but barely knows anything about him and doesn't ever attempt to know anything about him.

Not totally right. Ranka asked why Alto joined SMS in episode 4. She DOES attempt to know something about him. Anyway, I was convinced that people will stop faulting Ranka for not doing anything for Alto after what she did for him in episode 12. I guess not.

Sheryl doesn't know much, but she knows more and she hasn't even admitted to herself, let alone anyone else, that she even likes Alto. She tires to know more. When Ranka doesn't know something, she gets upset she didn't know. Not really because she wants to know, but because she's the only one who didn't know.

From what I can see, the only thing Sheryl knows about Alto moreso than Ranka (at this point) is that he hates Frontier cuz it doesn't have a sky. And this is actually something that was given to us in episode 1. It's common knowledge. He even told Luca the same thing lol Ranka now knows he was a Kabuki princess. Ranka knows Alto loves to fly. The rest about Alto's family can be googled by anyone and the personal stuffs (besides his dad trouble), he hasn't even revealed. How does this make Sheryl more deserving of Alto than Ranka when Ranka flat out laid her life on the line for Alto?:rolleyes:

re: the lovely codependent relationship. Being with Ranka because it makes Alto feel like a manly man just is about the worse basis for a couple ever. That is masking his problem and not dealing with the real issues he might have. He shouldn't have to be with someone to make up for something he lacks.

In fairness, I do acknowledge your opinion even if I don't see anything wrong with wanting someone to depend on you. It's not like Alto deliberately needs Ranka to depend on him or else he'll die. His desire to support her is friendly and harmless. Codependence is more of an extreme term to use on their relationship--you do know that term is only for disturbed people and such.:heh: Alto and Ranka's connection is far far from it.

The story has been portraying Ranka and Alto's relationship as a good thing, thus I don't have any problems with it.:) Also, we are only in episode 14. I have a feeling that naive advice Alto told Ranka about not facing her past will be dealt with near the end. The two will eventually learn to face their pasts or the story will run out of fuel.

You get in a relationship with someone who brings out the good in you, who compliments you, but not who you have to depend on so much without them you'd be incomplete

Between Ranka and Sheryl, Alto responds the best when he's with Ranka. I think I've written enough essays and posts in this forum just to point how much good Ranka brings out from Alto and vice versa.

[BleachOD]

Originally Posted by Teletha
Being with Ranka because it makes Alto feel like a manly man just is about the worse basis for a couple ever. (I never said that...just so you know)

So not true. Alto has been emasculated... Ranka desires support. Alto desires to give it her... It's give and take.
It's when he clearly doesn't want to be bothered that I have a problem with (Which is the case with Sheryl<--save it for romance)
But I wasn't talking about shipping...:nono:

Why is ship wars disguised as Psychobabble? :uhoh:
Why don't you guys just create a thread for it...:upset::frustrated:

Now I am not finished...Let analyze Ranka from my perspective...

The I will do a VS...In the shipping thread. And show you ALTO'S BLATANT JEALOUSY WHEN IT COMES TO RANKA...and why...My ship has a better chance than yours...


I said I am going to play my position... That means:
I like to tell you what I think first. Then you can go at me...

I was hoping you guys would be entertaining...but the ship thing...Will own everything thats been said<--you don't like that about me...but it's true.:heh:


since I am not trying to delve too much into that and "Stay on topic" but we all know that these character analysis are covert ship war threads...(It's all I seen in here)


fyi...:uhoh:

YOU NEED TO WATCH IT AGAIN!

[Swampstorm]

That amounts to the same thing. I'm still not sure why you'd want to promote their relationship as a codependent one. :heh:

Incidently, whenever you mention emasculation or castration in a psychological sense, you're bound to draw references to Freud. :p

[TwilightHack]

Now I am not finished...Let analyze Ranka from my perspective...

The I will do a VS...In the shipping thread. And show you ALTO'S BLATANT JEALOUSY WHEN IT COMES TO RANKA...and why...My ship has a better chance than yours...
I'm curious about your analyzing. I don't doubt you when you say you've a good judge of character... but at the moment you're doing a very bad job at interpreting and analyzing Macross F.

For starters, how in the work is Alto blatantly jealous of ANYONE? Where in the world are you drawing that off of?

[magnuskn]

OD, although I found merit in your analysis of Alto, I also want to point out that the only person constantly referring to Alto as a princess who runs away from his problems happens to be Michael. The moment in episode 8 where Sheryl asks who the "Princess" is, and everybody points to Alto is a rare exception of this.

Now, Michael is also Altos best friend and sometimes friendly rival, as far as I can see, because elsewise Alto wouldn't tolerate his behaviour at all. Luca, Nanase and everyone else never refer to Alto as a princess, for Luca he is actually a Sempai.

Therefore I fear that after some revision that aspect of your post falls a bit flat.

I still can see how Alto is looking for reassurance of his manlyness in Ranka, but as this aspect of their relationship is a Bad Thing (tm), IMO, that´s not exactly reassuring for your ship.

[Westlo]

He is not going to be easily impressed by looks or fame.

His statement about Sheryl in episode one, alone confirms that this could be more than just an assumption. (As well as a couple of others...He makes.)
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8615/hesasprettyassheissohecex4.th.jpg (http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hesasprettyassheissohecex4.jpg)
He asks “What makes her the Galactic Fairy?” He can’t see it. You know why? Because of the reasons stated…

This is just being selective because this entire point of yours ignores what happens later in the episode and in episode 5.

Episode 1

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2001%20-%2051.jpg

Doesn't Alto say something like she's amazing around this point? I cbf looking for my episode 1 to find out what he says but he's obviously impressed at this point. Here's the manga version.

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4463/part1page33en8.th.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=part1page33en8.jpg)

Episode 5

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2005%20-%2012.jpg

Oh Oh looks like Ms Fairy made an impression on him! Obviously not to the point of most people but she still made an impression.

I'm not sure if you realize it, but this whole passage just saved me the time and effort of showing why I have such a big problem with Alto x Ranka. :)

Pretty much how I felt reading that passage, a lot of her points throughout actually convince me more than Ranka and Alto are based on the wrong things and that Sheryl is right for him.

This might have been more of a problem, say, if Sheryl had some sort of trauma that made it difficult for her to accept a loved one's need to pilot into battle. But she doesn't appear to have any issues like that lurking in the background. ;)

Yes this is lurking in the background...

SherylxGalaxy ftw;)

I suggest you take off your shipping glasses and look at the actual show itself and realize that Galaxy (or what's left of it) is being set up to be the final opponents. In other words no chance in hell of a Galaxy ending, Sheryl has a higher chance of sacrificing herself in Valkyrie to protect Alto's life.

[Wesley84]

Doesn't Alto say something like she's amazing around this point?

Only in the non-canon TV airing.

[mike_s_6]

http://randomc.animeblogger.net/image/Macross/Macross%20Frontier%20-%2005%20-%2012.jpg

Oh Oh looks like Ms Fairy made an impression on him! Obviously not to the point of most people but she still made an impression.




I know this is an attempt at a parody but it fails :heh:

[mike_s_6]

Only in the non-canon TV airing.

Of course they didn't make her fall in the deculture edition, they have already exceeded their time limit.

[Westlo]

Only in the non-canon TV airing.

In 11 days time it's officially canon in the 32 minute dvd version of episode 1, like it or not.

[Wesley84]

In 11 days time it's officially canon in the 32 minute dvd version of episode 1, like it or not.

It's their mistake to make.

[Teletha]

(I never said that...just so you know)

So not true. Alto has been emasculated... Ranka desires support. Alto desires to give it her... It's give and take.
It's when he clearly doesn't want to be bothered that I have a problem with (Which is the case with Sheryl<--save it for romance)
But I wasn't talking about shipping...:nono:

Why is ship wars disguised as Psychobabble? :uhoh:
Why don't you guys just create a thread for it...:upset::frustrated:

Now I am not finished...Let analyze Ranka from my perspective...

The I will do a VS...In the shipping thread. And show you ALTO'S BLATANT JEALOUSY WHEN IT COMES TO RANKA...and why...My ship has a better chance than yours...


That's exactly what you meant. Ranka makes him feel like a man who does manly things and GAR screaming, not like a princess he is deep inside. Well, he needs to get unemasculated. What happens if Ranka dies and he can't fix his emasculated self with helping her neediness? Or what if she actually realizes her potential and doesn't need him to help her all the time? What is the basis other then that? Does he find some other moepanda to feel manly? Or what about if Sheryl needs him more then Ranka? That's possible soon considering the shit that is going to go down. I think your Alto sounds like he needs a heavy dose of therapy, not a relationship.

I actually like Alto x Sheryl more, but it's not really a your ship versus my ship for me. It's a Sheryl is clearly superior and would make a clearly superior partner for Alto and if he doesn't see that it's his loss. :heh: Ranka would be fine for him as a cute romance, but not one I would enjoy. If he picks Ranka it just reminds me again why he's not my favorite in Frontier. But I guess we can keep that in romance.

@ ani_d I will try to answer later. I'm a bit busy and it's long. :p

[squaresphere]

With Brersa joining the fleet I think we'll see an ugly side to Alto. Even if he's an "ally", he's tried to kill Alto several times, almost killed Klan, and prevented Alto from saving Ranka.

A rival is one thing, but if they address this with Alto's, "whatever I don't care" attitude it'll be a serious lose for character development.

[Wesley84]

With Brersa joining the fleet I think we'll see an ugly side to Alto. Even if he's an "ally", he's tried to kill Alto several times, almost killed Klan, and prevented Alto from saving Ranka.

A rival is one thing, but if they address this with Alto's, "whatever I don't care" attitude it'll be a serious lose for character development.

This is Frontier. No one has an ugly side. :rolleyes:

[Westlo]

Bobby doesn't allow ugly sides.

[squaresphere]

This is Frontier. No one has an ugly side. :rolleyes:

I dunno, Pres Glass is a pretty ugly person (on the inside) ;)

[zalem]

SherylxGalaxy ftw;)


I must oppose a SherylxGalaxy end considering I believe that Galaxy are the ultimate bad guys of this series. Galaxy is most likely the HQ for Grace faction and I don't believe for a second that it was destroyed....they are EVIL. Evil I tell you.

edit: Forgive me I missed this initially:



After playfully tapping Ranka on the head; he then says “Why are you still so hesitant?” He’s actually encouraging her to become dependent on him.
Alto has been all but physically castrated…By protecting her, supporting Ranka, by being her rock; He can feel self-worth. He can feel like a “Real Man”.


If this is true it actually makes the AltoXRanka relationship seem even more repulsive to me. I have enough issues with the pairing as it is, so let us hope they have a more healthy relationship if they do pair up. Though I do agree with your 80% chance of Ranka winning. Actually, it's probably higher. But maybe I'm just being pessimistic...

Alas, I've seen those scenes yet again and I still don't see the blatant jealousy from Alto.

[daimonth]

I thought of something amusing while posting yesterday in the Sheryl thread and didn't feel up to to organize my thought...Anyways here it is...

I call it Altos great evasive maneuvers:

Ep 6- Situation: When Ranka ask if Alto was at Zentraedi mall alone. Result: Evaded when Alto lied and said that he was indeed alone.

Ep10-Situation: Meeting Ranka on the set with Sheryl. Result: Shot down by Sheryl after trying to hide himself in the background.

Ep11- Situation: Told his father has fallen il and that there is a chance of settle things if he shows up on his birthday. Result: Evaded- Ran to Galia 4 without a word.

Ep11- Situation: Invitation from Ranka to spend time on his birthday. Result: Evaded- Ran to Galia 4, got Mikhail as a substitute without having to decline Ranka himself.

Not to say that he always run away, because from time to time he does tackle things head on. However there is a pattern of evading the issue when faced with awkward situation such as declining Ranka or facing his father.

[ani_d]

OD, I'm gonna look forward to reading your perception of Alto's blatant jealousy since I also can't think of a scene where he got jealous over Ranka. :heh: The closest was when he saw her with Michael and it hit me more as a concern from his part.

Outside the story though, here's a magnificent jealous shot of Alto for you lol

http://static1.animepaper.net/upload/thumbs/scans/Macross-Frontier/[large][AnimePaper]scans_Macross-Frontier_suemura(1.59)__THISRES__190869.jpg

Macross Vampire Knight with mushroom head on the side.

I suggest you take off your shipping glasses and look at the actual show itself and realize that Galaxy (or what's left of it) is being set up to be the final opponents. In other words no chance in hell of a Galaxy ending, Sheryl has a higher chance of sacrificing herself in Valkyrie to protect Alto's life.

Unless Grace is the government of Galaxy and everyone living on it are plotting against Sheryl, then maybe Sheryl doesn't deserve to be with Galaxy. I don't think so. Though there may be bad vibes around it, there's always going to be victims from Galaxy---victims such as the residents living in it.

[justinstrife]

I don't think Alto has shown jealousy over anything, other than being jealous that Michael was kicking butt and taking names in Valkyries before Alto could. :heh:

[ickem]

I don't think Alto has shown jealousy over anything, other than being jealous that Michael was kicking butt and taking names in Valkyries before Alto could. :heh:

Don't be silly. He's obviously jealous of Brera and how his stylish outfit exposes him from neck to waist.

[mike_s_6]

Don't be silly. He's obviously jealous of Brera and how his stylish outfit exposes him from neck to waist.

It's the back of him he's looking at, it has to be his @ss.

[Tak]

It's the back of him he's looking at, it has to be his @ss.

No kidding, both Alto and Ranka are staring at the same spot. You have to wonder what they are looking at.

- Tak

[Westlo]

I thought of something amusing while posting yesterday in the Sheryl thread and didn't feel up to to organize my thought...Anyways here it is...

I call it Altos great evasive maneuvers:

Ep 6- Situation: When Ranka ask if Alto was at Zentraedi mall alone. Result: Evaded when Alto lied and said that he was indeed alone.

Ep10-Situation: Meeting Ranka on the set with Sheryl. Result: Shot down by Sheryl after trying to hide himself in the background.

Ep11- Situation: Told his father has fallen il and that there is a chance of settle things if he shows up on his birthday. Result: Evaded- Ran to Galia 4 without a word.

Ep11- Situation: Invitation from Ranka to spend time on his birthday. Result: Evaded- Ran to Galia 4, got Mikhail as a substitute without having to decline Ranka himself.

Not to say that he always run away, because from time to time he does tackle things head on. However there is a pattern of evading the issue when faced with awkward situation such as declining Ranka or facing his father.

And what advice does he give Ranka in episode 13? To run away from her problems, what a healthy relationship this is going to be!

Unless Grace is the government of Galaxy and everyone living on it are plotting against Sheryl, then maybe Sheryl doesn't deserve to be with Galaxy. I don't think so. Though there may be bad vibes around it, there's always going to be victims from Galaxy---victims such as the residents living in it.

I highly doubt those innocent citizens are still alive (I wouldn't be surprised if the actual colony got destroyed in the Varja attack, while the Battle Galaxy + support fleets are still around) and even if they were they will have a hard time of surviving in the final battle. Just let the Sheryl Galaxy ending go, it's not going to happen, pin your hopes on Michael or Brera because that's all you have left. This reminds of True Tears where people in a certain faction where trying to hook up one lead with Jun ;)

And please don't say Sheryl fans did the same with Ranka and Brera, from what I saw it was Ranka fans who gave up after episode 7 who were pushing that angle, you included miss "I don't wanna talk about Ranka".

[zalem]

OD, I'm gonna look forward to reading your perception of Alto's blatant jealousy since I also can't think of a scene where he got jealous over Ranka. :heh: The closest was when he saw her with Michael and it hit me more as a concern from his part.

Outside the story though, here's a magnificent jealous shot of Alto for you lol

http://static1.animepaper.net/upload/thumbs/scans/Macross-Frontier/[large][AnimePaper]scans_Macross-Frontier_suemura(1.59)__THISRES__190869.jpg



That is a pretty pic. While I have not seen a jealous Alto at all in the anime up to this point, I bet with Brera announcing himself to Frontier and coming into the picture Alto will probably get some jealousy shots. He doesn't like Brera afterall (he keeps swooping in and stealing all his thunder). Doubt he'll appreciate Brera hanging around Ranka. Hopefully he'll let it go when they all find out Brera is her brother.

[Anh_Minh]

Brera being her brother doesn't change the fact he has a better machine than Alto's, so no, the jealousy isn't going to go away.

[zalem]

Brera being her brother doesn't change the fact he has a better machine than Alto's, so no, the jealousy isn't going to go away.

Hehehe, but he might be more inclined to be nicer for Ranka's sake.

[Swampstorm]

Brera being her brother doesn't change the fact he has a better machine than Alto's, so no, the jealousy isn't going to go away.
True. Alto and Brera will have to battle it out to see who can win the VF-27's heart. :heh:

[zalem]

There is no contest there....the V-27 is madly in love with Brera. Maybe it'll have a one night stand with Alto, but in the end BreraxV-27 will be the ultimate couple.

BreraxV-27 FTW!!!

[justinstrife]

There is no contest there....the V-27 is madly in love with Brera. Maybe it'll have a one night stand with Alto, but in the end BreraxV-27 will be the ultimate couple.

BreraxV-27 FTW!!!

Even ani_d and BleachOD should acknowledge this pairing. :p

[CaptGloval]

Yes, once the VF-27 learns of Alto's VF-wrecking habit, the relationship will be over.

[Westlo]

Alto will only be with the vf 27 because the mechanic for the vf 25 sabotaged it, than while getting repaired the vf 25 realizes how much it misses Alto :( *sniff*

[Wesley84]

Does he or does he not like girls?

[Anh_Minh]

I'd say Sheryl made him at least bicurious.

[Zaresh]

Thad scene in the lockers was pretty obvious, wasn't it? I'm certainly sure he likes girls, but it's just he is a bit asexual, like Leia in Star Wars.

Or, maybe he's even bisexual. I really don't care :3.

In any case, he's not a pervert, nor some sort of "Don Juan", like Michel is :D. He's just more calm than usual.

[BleachOD]

That amounts to the same thing. I'm still not sure why you'd want to promote their relationship as a codependent one. :heh:
The same way I promote IchiRuki. Alto behaves as if Ranka is the one he cares most for. Behavior is key!

Incidently, whenever you mention emasculation or castration in a psychological sense, you're bound to draw references to Freud. :pWhat part are you not understanding?:uhoh: Alto has been emasculated. ..

[Tak]

[SIZE="3"]Alto has been emasculated. ..

By?

- Tak

[nines]

Behavior is key but how do you not know that he isn't treating Ranka like a little sister?

[Tak]

Behavior is key but how do you not know that he isn't treating Ranka like a little sister?

Because she is BleachOD, and she will not accept an alternative different from her lenses ;)

- Tak

[nines]

Because she is BleachOD, and she will not accept an alternative different from her lenses ;)

- Tak

Oh? not open to other possibilites eh?

[Zaresh]

I think Alto treats Ranka like a little sister until ep 12. Since them, he's treating her like... well... I guess he finally realised she is a little woman, too.

[zalem]

That's basically the way I see it. He treated her like a kid sister, but then after her MOE song attack in ep. 12 he begins to see her in a new, bit more romantic light.

[cerrian]

That's basically the way I see it. He treated her like a kid sister, but then after her MOE song attack in ep. 12 he begins to see her in a new, bit more romantic light.

Pretty much how I saw it too. Too bad their relationship has such a shaky foundation because it makes Alto's new interest in her feel forced.

[kk2extreme]

whatever u do in the future, just dont cut your hair, ok "hime-sama" :p

[justinstrife]

The same way I promote IchiRuki. Alto behaves as if Ranka is the one he cares most for. Behavior is key!
..

Right... As if you've been watching the same show as the rest of us.

His biggest cares are when's the next time he's going to fly his VF-25(before smashing it). He's been so wishy washy and clueless with these two girls, you can't make that kind of judgement for the first 15 episodes. What might happen after is open to discussion absolutely. But the first 15 episodes proves he doesn't care for one girl over the other.

God I hate characters like him in the romance department. I've gotten so sick of these stereotypes in anime over 10 years ago.

[Tak]

Right... As if you've been watching the same show as the rest of us.



I wonder when she will stop mentioning Bleach. Its nice and all that she likes the show, but a lot of us simply aren't very enthusiastic about Bleach nor do we believe this is the best place to post anything about it. Look, the bottom line is fairly simple, we don't give a shit, and she should get a clue.

- Tak

[Swampstorm]

The same way I promote IchiRuki. Alto behaves as if Ranka is the one he cares most for. Behavior is key!That had nothing to do with what you quoted. :confused:

What part are you not understanding?:uhoh: Alto has been emasculated. ..Emasculation refers to the physical or symbolic removal of the male genitals. In context, we're talking about a symbolic act, which depends on Alto's interpretation. So we can't say that Alto "has been emasculated" (implying that he was forcibly subjected to the act). At most, we can only say that Alto "percieves himself to be emasculated" or "feels emasculated".

While social pressures often influence our perceptions of what's masculine (or more often, what isn't), there's nothing absolute about the concept. Whether or not Alto percieves himself as masculine depends on his self-image and his personal definition of masculinity.

In order to resolve these feelings (if they really are an issue for him), Alto needs to address their roots. In other words, he must learn to accept himself unconditionally. Alto is a man. He doesn't need to prove anything to remain that way.

What you're promoting is a state of dependency. If the proof of Alto's manhood lies in something external to himself, then his masculinity will be conditional. At best, he'll end up living out his life in the fear that the external source of his masculinity will be "cut off". :p

But personally, I don't think that Alto feels emasculated. I'm simply pointing out the flipside to your ideas.

[King Lycan]

God I hate characters like him in the romance department. I've gotten so sick of these stereotypes in anime over 10 years ago.
I feel the same way..i mean how retarded can you be.
Sheryl is practically throwing herself at Alto.
I mean i aspect micheal to give head ups about Sherly loving Alto

[magnuskn]

Right... As if you've been watching the same show as the rest of us.

His biggest cares are when's the next time he's going to fly his VF-25(before smashing it). He's been so wishy washy and clueless with these two girls, you can't make that kind of judgement for the first 15 episodes. What might happen after is open to discussion absolutely. But the first 15 episodes proves he doesn't care for one girl over the other.

God I hate characters like him in the romance department. I've gotten so sick of these stereotypes in anime over 10 years ago.

Can´t say that I too hot about that stereotype either, just comparing to how I was feeling about girls at the tender age of 17. :D

Then again, if he wasn´t as clueless sexually, he´d be Michael. And then Sheryl would not be interested in him.

[Westlo]

If next episode contains something like...

Alto - Why did you push yourself so much to see me when you are sick!
Sheryl - Don't you know...
Alto - *grins* ah you just want to mess with me right?
Sheryl - .....

I will facepalm like I've never facepalmed before.

[magnuskn]

If next episode contains something like...

Alto - Why did you push yourself so much to see me when you are sick!
Sheryl - Don't you know...
Alto - *grins* ah you just want to mess with me right?
Sheryl - .....

I will facepalm like I've never facepalmed before.

Well, if I am judging the screenshot from the preview on Random Curiosity correctly, it may be that Sheryl is meeting Alto to give him some extra something. :p

Then again, that *other* screen at the Frontier webpage suggests he doesn´t know how to appreciate good things coming to him. :upset:

[lone_wolf]

If next episode contains something like...

Alto - Why did you push yourself so much to see me when you are sick!
Sheryl - Don't you know...
Alto - *grins* ah you just want to mess with me right?
Sheryl - .....

I will facepalm like I've never facepalmed before.


I'm certain that I would join you in the facepalm.:heh:
Ummm...while you're out, Alto, can you get a CLUE????

--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[justinstrife]

He's gotta be gay. He's really in love with Michael but is in denial. There's no other reason to explain how he's so indifferent with two girls throwing themselves at him like they do.

[King Lycan]

Yea..im starting to suspect that !

[zalem]

It's the VF-25 I'm telling you. AltoXVF-25 is the thing to ship. Along with BreraxVF-27.

[Anh_Minh]

What would that be? Aerosexuality? Mechasexuality?

[ickem]

I'm certain that I would join you in the facepalm.:heh:
Ummm...while you're out, Alto, can you get a CLUE????

--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

Come on, give the guy a break. Just look at the type of role model he had growing up. Plus he's had to play the role of a girl since he could remember. It's not surprising that he's such a late bloomer :p.

[Tak]

Come on, give the guy a break. Just look at the type of role model he had growing up. Plus he's had to play the role of a girl since he could remember. It's not surprising that he's such a late bloomer :p.

Once again, I love how Macross Frontier is setting up its characters. Every time they encounter what is seemingly a conventional anime device, there is a very plausible explanation behind it, or twists that you'd least expect :p

- Tak

[King Lycan]

What would that be? Aerosexuality? Mechasexuality?

I'm going for Mechasexuality :D

[magnuskn]

I quite like the guy. While he is stand-offish, he *cares*.

And, to be honest, would it be only Sheryl or Ranka, either girl would have him by now.

[zalem]

I'm going with Mechasexuality too. Sounds right. That's the perfect term for Alto.

[lone_wolf]

I'm going for Mechasexuality :D


That's a very appropriate term...and it rings true to real liｆe as well.

I tend to get that mechasexuality "excitement" every time I see a motorcycle....especially with a V-twin so yes Alto and his VF-25 is completely comprehensible.


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[stray]

pimpin a'int easy...

Seriously, if you're actually into 2 different girls, know they're into you, and both are in (more or less) the same social circle as you? That's like a reaction missle sitting in your lap. I can't blame the boy for just shutting down around episode 8.

[justinstrife]

That's a very appropriate term...and it rings true to real liｆe as well.

I tend to get that mechasexuality "excitement" every time I see a motorcycle....especially with a V-twin so yes Alto and his VF-25 is completely comprehensible.


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼For me it's when I see or drive my supercharged corvette, or my twin turbo RX-7. Pure love. :p

[Anh_Minh]

Yeah. The girls should just accept that backing him into a corner is just asking for a scenario where everyone loses. They should compromise and go for a situation where everyone wins. And maybe invest in some energy drinks for the guy.

[stray]

For me it's when I see or drive my supercharged corvette, or my twin turbo RX-7. Pure love. :p

Hmmm... ok the Corvette I'll pass on but I gotta respect the RX-7. Quite possibly the best Japanese car to ever make it to the US.

I'm a sucker for the Euros, however... atm sporting a bright orange Fahrenheit GTI... need more mods tho. If I could only afford an Audi R8...

[lone_wolf]

For me it's when I see or drive my supercharged corvette, or my twin turbo RX-7. Pure love. :p


I should just just give in and illustrate Alto on a Triumph Thruxton bike...oh wait He's not Natsuki...wrong series/wrong forum. :uhoh:

Although it's so easy to place Alto in Natsuki's shoes LOL...he literally is her male counterpart. :heh:


--Lone Wolf
一匹狼

[magnuskn]

Yeah. The girls should just accept that backing him into a corner is just asking for a scenario where everyone loses. They should compromise and go for a situation where everyone wins. And maybe invest in some energy drinks for the guy.

<g> I´d love to see that happen, but I´d die of shock if it actually did. :D