[Manga] The Official Suigetsu Discussion thread

[SuigetsuKun]

In chapter 346 on page 15, he first made his appearance. A young man, as cold and deep as Davy Jones's locker. His name is Hōzuki Suigetsu, student of Momochi Zabusa and brother of Mangetsu Hōzuki, who's been killed by Hoshikage Kisame, which makes him an avenger.

He's the first team member of Sasuke's squad. A nukenin born into Kirigakure, aka Village of the Hidden Blood Mist.

This thread is about this young extraordinary man, to discuss his aims, deeds, words, experiences and fortune.

[Ero-Senn1n]

How could he be Zabuza's student when Zabuza became a criminal when he was about Suigetsu's age? Or didn't he leave the village at that age? We know that Madara is the mizukage, so it may be that killing others is not a crime there. Or maybe Suigetsu left with Zabuza and became a missing nin.

[yaluckyboy]

Suigetsu was not Zabuza's student, they were both students training to receive the Demon Beheading Sword at the same time

But in the end, Zabuza got the sword

BTW Zabuza did not become a criminal age Suigetsu's age, he was just a ruthless ninja that was considered a "Demon", he became a criminal after he met Haku

[james0246]

@Hunter, could we possibly turn this into a Poll thread, similar to the Sai character thread?

That being said, Suigetsu is just one of many villains that has what seems to be amazing powers (he was the only member of Team Hawk (besides Sasuke, of course) that was able to land a conclusive blow against the Hachibi (even if the Hachibi was pulling its punches)), but, for whatever reason, Kishimoto refuses to allow Suigetsu (as well as several other strong villains) to stand equal with Sasuke or other dominant antagonists.

[OtseisRagnarok]

About Suigetsu? Well, he's interesting.... He's after all the seven swordsman of the mist, right? Remember those guys? An old plotline that was left to dangle....

[Ero-Senn1n]

Suigetsu was not Zabuza's student, they were both students training to receive the Demon Beheading Sword at the same time

But in the end, Zabuza got the sword

Suigetsu is much younger than Zabuza, how could they compete when Suigetsu was only a baby or wasn't even born. Unless Suigetsu is 30 years old :)


BTW Zabuza did not become a criminal age Suigetsu's age, he was just a ruthless ninja that was considered a "Demon", he became a criminal after he met Haku
Zabuza killed all of the genins, i think he overdid that quite a bit. A village needs new ninja, so the village should criminalize him. Unless Madara liked his performance :)
Anyway it was said somewhere in the Zabuza-arc that he tried to murder some feudal lord but he failed, that's when he became a hunted criminal unless he was already a missing ninja.

[OtseisRagnarok]

Suigetsu is much younger than Zabuza, how could they compete when Suigetsu was only a baby or wasn't even born. Unless Suigetsu is 30 years old :)
You can't say he isn't... The man is made of water! He could be older than Madara for all we know!!


Zabuza killed all of the genins, i think he overdid that quite a bit. A village needs new ninja, so the village should criminalize him. Unless Madara liked his performance :)
Anyway it was said somewhere in the Zabuza-arc that he tried to murder some feudal lord but he failed, that's when he became a hunted criminal unless he was already a missing ninja.
Wasn't that the onbly way to get through the ninja academy in mist? I remember hearing that they had to kill each other.

[cheese no koma]

Not much is on his portfolio at the moment, by that i mean fights. We'll get to see the true extend of his abilities soon, if he does get match up with one of the rookie 9. That being said, he is talented, being able to wield Zabuza's chopping knife at will and touted as his successor.

His special ability to turn into water at will is no doubt useful as most physical attacks wouldn't work on him, and like most kirigakure ninja, he can be tough if there is water source at the battlefield. Though even with that he's not completely invincible, a powerful lighting jutsu could easily obliterate him.

[yaluckyboy]

Suigetsu is much younger than Zabuza, how could they compete when Suigetsu was only a baby or wasn't even born. Unless Suigetsu is 30 years old :).

Zabuza was not necessarily training to be a Swordsman of the Mist at that time and even if he was, just look at how Itachi became a Chunin at the age of 10 so Suigetsu might have passed Zabuza if he was a child genius (Although this wasn't the case)

And the whole "Suigetsu being old as water" thing might actually be true, who knows cause they didn't really look into his past that much

[AuroraFlash]

I read that Suigetsu became like that from the experiments of Orochimaru. Before, he was just one student of Zabusa and had a brother. His name doesn't have to stand for his bodytype, it can just be typical for being born into the hidden mist, just as christians are called Michael or David.

[SuigetsuKun]

How could he be Zabuza's student when Zabuza became a criminal when he was about Suigetsu's age? Or didn't he leave the village at that age? We know that Madara is the mizukage, so it may be that killing others is not a crime there. Or maybe Suigetsu left with Zabuza and became a missing nin.
Why should he leave the village? Students killing each other off was a tradition, not a crime. Still, it's possible that Zabuza became his teacher after he left the Hidden Mist. Maybe they fought side by side against Kisame and retreated after Suigetsu's brother (and maybe others) got killed.
From the time Zabuza left the Mist, Haku must have been around, too.
This could have given them at least the possibility to escape Kisame (like freezing him inside an ice block or sth. like that).

Suigetsu was not Zabuza's student, they were both students training to receive the Demon Beheading Sword at the same time

But in the end, Zabuza got the sword

BTW Zabuza did not become a criminal age Suigetsu's age, he was just a ruthless ninja that was considered a "Demon", he became a criminal after he met Haku
What a story... how can you just say this? This is proven nowhere.

@Hunter, could we possibly turn this into a Poll thread, similar to the Sai character thread?

That being said, Suigetsu is just one of many villains that has what seems to be amazing powers (he was the only member of Team Hawk (besides Sasuke, of course) that was able to land a conclusive blow against the Hachibi (even if the Hachibi was pulling its punches)), but, for whatever reason, Kishimoto refuses to allow Suigetsu (as well as several other strong villains) to stand equal with Sasuke or other dominant antagonists.
Kishimoto doesn't refuse.
I'm gonna make him an offer he can't refuse...

[Ero-Senn1n]

Why should he leave the village? Students killing each other off was a tradition, not a crime.
Killing your opponents can be a law, but he killed *everybody*. How long would a village exist if every year only one ninja survived? The power of a village relies not only in quality of the ninja but also in quantity. When the Zabuza-Haku story was told by Kakashi it was clear that Zabuza did something unprecedented, otherwise Kakashi would never talk about someone who just performs the same task that everyone else did in the mist village. It wouldn't be a story if it was natural. So my assumption is that Zabuza acted on his own, against the orders of the village, which means he became a criminal and had to escape from the village.
But now that we discover Madara's past and that he is mizukage i think maybe he was not regarded as criminal and could continue as the village's ninja.

[SuigetsuKun]

Killing your opponents can be a law, but he killed *everybody*. How long would a village exist if every year only one ninja survived? The power of a village relies not only in quality of the ninja but also in quantity. When the Zabuza-Haku story was told by Kakashi it was clear that Zabuza did something unprecedented, otherwise Kakashi would never talk about someone who just performs the same task that everyone else did in the mist village. It wouldn't be a story if it was natural. So my assumption is that Zabuza acted on his own, against the orders of the village, which means he became a criminal and had to escape from the village.
But now that we discover Madara's past and that he is mizukage i think maybe he was not regarded as criminal and could continue as the village's ninja.

You tend to forget. He tried to assassinate the Mizukage - and failed. Thus he's become a refugee :D

[Ero-Senn1n]

You tend to forget. He tried to assassinate the Mizukage - and failed. Thus he's become a refugee :D

Refugee? lol :) He became S-class criminal. The question was when has Zabuza become a criminal, either when killing every genin or when he tried to kill a feudal lord or the mizukage.

[Josh Uzumaki]

i thought this was a suigetsu topic?
but its funny how in retrospect how crap zabuza actually was

[BlackNhite]

Suigetsu is basically Naruto's answer to Roronoa Zoro from One Piece:
-both had a rival/friend that was vying for the same/similar goal
-said rival/friend died untimely
-both now seek to become the greatest swordsman(Note at bottom)
-very similar personalities and interaction between character types(Nami & Karin respectively)

Note: Suigetsu seeks to "collect all the swords" of the seven swordsman. I doubt those still living or any who may have picked up their blades are willing to relinquish them so easily, so Suigetsu will have to become "the best swordsman" if he wishes to retrieve them.

That done, I wonder how Kishi would handle Suigetsu collecting Raiga's swords. He did say he was a member of the Seven though he was only featured in the filler arcs. It'll be interesting to see how that unfolds, but hopefully Kishi won't just go and say Suigetsu randomly finds them and gets yet another freebie. Maybe someone's picked up said blades and now wields them as an accomplished swordsman themself?

[yaluckyboy]

To tell you the truth, there are lots of times when a character or something else that was originally part of a filler arc and the writer liked it so much that they put it into the actual series

Bardock (Goku's biological father) from DBZ was first introduced in one of the DBZ Movies, but Toriyama liked it so much that he put it into the Manga when Freeza mentioned how he and Goku resemble each other

[BlackNhite]

To tell you the truth, there are lots of times when a character or something else that was originally part of a filler arc and the writer liked it so much that they put it into the actual series

Bardock (Goku's biological father) from DBZ was first introduced in one of the DBZ Movies, but Toriyama liked it so much that he put it into the Manga when Freeza mentioned how he and Goku resemble each other

I didn't think Bardock's movie was that old, I'd thought it came out long after the manga was past that point.
I have a pathetic sense of time it seems...

[Ero-Senn1n]

i thought this was a suigetsu topic?

It is, but we try to get an idea of Suigetsu's childhood and background by analyzing his village. We know about Zabuza, Kisame and Madara, and they are all ruthless ninja. And that means that Suigetsu was raised in a heartless and quite demanding place, most likely the opposite of the "will of fire" of Konoha. And that means that the current Suigetsu is not an "evil" person by nature, he may join the good guys (Naruto and co.) at a later time because he is still young enough to change his ideas about the world. And all that possibility for his character means that he will probably not die in action, which is a good thing for those fans who like him. Well this is all just my assumption :)

[SuigetsuKun]

It is, but we try to get an idea of Suigetsu's childhood and background by analyzing his village. We know about Zabuza, Kisame and Madara, and they are all ruthless ninja. And that means that Suigetsu was raised in a heartless and quite demanding place, most likely the opposite of the "will of fire" of Konoha. And that means that the current Suigetsu is not an "evil" person by nature, he may join the good guys (Naruto and co.) at a later time because he is still young enough to change his ideas about the world. And all that possibility for his character means that he will probably not die in action, which is a good thing for those fans who like him. Well this is all just my assumption :)

Words of wisdom.
I think he would be the best replacement for Asuma, Konoha can get. Suigetsu is not only a brilliant swordsman who can easily wield swords, he's so much more and he definitely is one of the most promising young ninjas. But if Madara is the Mizukage, sooner or later, he has to be replaced... and who could rule the Hidden Mist better than someone made of water?

[Spectacular_Insanity]

Wasn't that the onbly way to get through the ninja academy in mist? I remember hearing that they had to kill each other.

That's what I thought.

However, I don't think he's all too old because he called Kisame "senpai" on several occasions if I remember correctly. I get the feeling he is comparable to Zabuza's age and definitely younger than Kisame.

[Gamma_Sennin]

Words of wisdom.
I think he would be the best replacement for Asuma, Konoha can get. Suigetsu is not only a brilliant swordsman who can easily wield swords, he's so much more and he definitely is one of the most promising young ninjas. But if Madara is the Mizukage, sooner or later, he has to be replaced... and who could rule the Hidden Mist better than someone made of water?

That idea is very possible... naruto changes the world... changes sasuke's teams way of thinking... becomes close with kirabee... suigetsu becomes mizukage, kirabee replaces his brother as raikage.. or he changes his brothers veiw on everything... and the world lives happy ever after... he does his garaa makeover on every1..

[cheese no koma]

That idea is very possible... naruto changes the world... changes sasuke's teams way of thinking... becomes close with kirabee... suigetsu becomes mizukage, kirabee replaces his brother as raikage.. or he changes his brothers veiw on everything... and the world lives happy ever after... he does his garaa makeover on every1..

Where's the sadness and sorrow in that? :heh:

[BlackNhite]

Where's the sadness and sorrow in that? :heh:

The fact that some blond idiot is manipulating the world, that's the sad part...

[OtseisRagnarok]

That's what I thought.

However, I don't think he's all too old because he called Kisame "senpai" on several occasions if I remember correctly. I get the feeling he is comparable to Zabuza's age and definitely younger than Kisame.
I thought Zabuza and Kisame were contemporaries? Weren't they both part of the legendary "Seven Swordsman of the Mist"?

[AuroraFlash]

I thought Zabuza and Kisame were contemporaries? Weren't they both part of the legendary "Seven Swordsman of the Mist"?

Kisame: 29 (Naruto) / 31 (Shippuuden)
Zabuza: 26 (totally dead and that was in the beginning of Naruto)
Suigetsu: 16 (appeard only in manga up to now)

If you guess Zabuza has died in the beginning of Naruto while we've seen the characters mature and add the timeshift of two years to Suigetsu's introduction, it might be true that Suigetsu was about six years old while Zabuza was around 19 years old and so on.

So I guess Zabuza and Kisame are about the same age, yes, but Kisame is a little older and of course managed to survive.

[OtseisRagnarok]

Kisame: 29 (Naruto) / 31 (Shippuuden)
Zabuza: 26 (totally dead and that was in the beginning of Naruto)
Suigetsu: 16 (appeard only in manga up to now)

If you guess Zabuza has died in the beginning of Naruto while we've seen the characters mature and add the timeshift of two years to Suigetsu's introduction, it might be true that Suigetsu was about six years old while Zabuza was around 19 years old and so on.

So I guess Zabuza and Kisame are about the same age, yes, but Kisame is a little older and of course managed to survive.
Figured as much....
But about the Seven Swordsman; were they all working together, oris this just a title given to seven random badasses?

[blewin]

I wonder what Orochimaru wanted with Suigetsu. I reckon this kid is crazy.... even madder than the other one whose blood made the curse seal.

[Gamma_Sennin]

I wonder what Orochimaru wanted with Suigetsu. I reckon this kid is crazy.... even madder than the other one whose blood made the curse seal.


Oro wanted to fill a pool with suigetsu and skinny dip...

[AuroraFlash]

I think Orochimaru made Suigetsu a waterguy. And I think he gathered those "kids", including the Sound 5, Yuugo, Suigetsu and Karin as Kabuto to be somehow able to fight Akatsuki - he knew they were after him. He himself wanted to overtake Sasuke's body and I guess Sasuke picked the guys that would be a good addition to himself the same way Orochimaru picked them - good additions to Sasuke's body and abilities.

[Ero-Senn1n]

I think Orochimaru made Suigetsu a waterguy.
I disagree on this, Orochimaru's experiments were useless in the end, he only created monsters by using different bloodlines and other things from his experiments. In the end he died as a monster and Sasuke's cursed seal was also undone. In this manga natural abilites (bloodlines, genetic traits) are always stronger than artifically created things, also they are natural while artifical power always has serious weaknesses. I think that all of Sasuke's group have natural abilities, and that is the reason why Orochimaru gathered them. Suigetsu's ability seems to be natural, and seeing how great it is to me it is quite clear that Orochimaru somehow abducted him to make experiments on him. The water tank was most likely a special kind of prison, because Suigetsu would be able to break out of regular prison, it seems he can become quite strong to break out of regular prisons but also he can simply flow out as water from a regular prison. Orochimaru is simply overrated, he used these children to make his experiments, the cursed seal is not Orochimaru's invention, he simply made it from Juugo's blood.

Sasuke picked the guys that would be a good addition to himself the same way Orochimaru picked them - good additions to Sasuke's body and abilities.
Sasuke himself said to Orochimaru that he is disgusting, so i would not compare Sasuke to Orochi since it is clear that Sasuke never wanted to become such a ruthless monster like Orochi was. Sasuke was disgusted by Orochi's experiments and his way of life and thinking, he also thinks to be superior to Orochi by having a natural power that Orochi wanted so badly.

[AuroraFlash]

Sasuke himself said to Orochimaru that he is disgusting, so i would not compare Sasuke to Orochi since it is clear that Sasuke never wanted to become such a ruthless monster like Orochi was. Sasuke was disgusted by Orochi's experiments and his way of life and thinking, he also thinks to be superior to Orochi by having a natural power that Orochi wanted so badly.

The first part was just a suggestion, you know. It doesn't have to be and maybe it's the reason why Suigetsu was interesting to Zabuza that he was made of water, but the second part is what you misunderstood.

I'm just a soul who's intentions are good...
Oh Lord, please don't let me be misunderstood!

=) I wanted to say that Sasuke picked the same guys Orochimaru gathered around him on purpose. Not because the intentions of him and Orochimaru are the same, but because either Orochimaru or Sasuke would have used the same body – Sasuke's body. This body has strengthes and weaknesses – with or without Orochimaru and the team Sasuke picked could be the same Orochimaru planned on. Just a possible reason why Suigetsu, Yuugo and Karin are in the Village of the Hidden Sound.

[SuigetsuKun]

I am slowly getting bored of watching all those meaningless characters dying. Suigetsu would at least kill Pain and Madara before giving up on himself...

[yaluckyboy]

I think that Suigetsu might have the Hyouton.

I think that they killed off Haku, the only character to possess the Hyouton so far, way too soon. The only purpose Haku has had is to remind Naruto about his "precious person" and to introduce Elemental Combinations like the Mokuton.

Now that the series is going back into detail about Zabuza and the Seven Swordsman of the Mist, I think they will go into detail on the Hyouton and have it some way tie into the storyline.

Orochimaru had done experimentations on the First's DNA to aquire the Mokuton, why couldn't he have done the same for the Hyouton. And since we know nothing about Suigetsu's past or the origin behind his powers, we really can't rule anything out at this point.

I think it would be really nice if Suigetsu would have the Mokuton. Naruto and the Leaf Village would have Yamato (Tenzou) and the Mokuton while Sasuke and the Akatsuki would have Suigetsu and the Hyouton. It evens out doesn't it?

[El_Negro]

About f**king time!!! Man This guy is just badass, I wonder if there will be a one on one fight against him and Kisame!?

[Kafriel]

I see Suigetsu as Sasuke's shield, back in the fight with kirabi Sasuke said it was "like that time", so he's currently standing in Naruto's place. About his abilities, they're pretty well-balanced: he can turn into water, making him immune to physical attacks but also increasing his vulnerability to thunder. Can't tell about mixed elements just yet, I have a feeling he won't have the attention I expect him to...