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Conversation Between Kudryavka and Kaijo
Showing Visitor Messages 1 to 7 of 7
  1. Kaijo
    2010-06-17 18:00
    Sorry, got caught up in things and forgot about this.

    You're trying to pin down JonBenet's situation to one factor, when there are multiple ones in play. Rarely is a situation the result of one single thing. Her family was rich *and* she was made known via beauty pageants, which also provided the perfect access. No, a poor child wouldn't have been targeted (unless by a pedophile), but neither was wealth the sole factor.

    And I am not connecting black to not rich or anything like that. But it is a sad state of reality that our media will focus mainly good-looking white people, usually women. When was the last time you saw a newscast focus on the murder or abduction of an average looking black guy? Just recently there was a report about the possible trouble of a young, white female sailor, trying to sail alone. Not too long ago was the murder of Lacy Peterson, another white woman.

    But I think you vastly underestimate just how many parents push their kids through unhealthy things like spraying tans. Even if they don't do that, and even if they dress their kid up naturally, the harm being done to their development is still there. They are still being taught that only beauty matters, and it's only a type of show you put on that determines if people like you or not.

    Regardless of how you feel the media portrays them, rarely has any good come out child beauty pageants; it's purely for the parents and adults.
  2. Kudryavka
    2010-06-12 15:37
    A bit off topic, but please do not connect "black" to "not rich", or "rich" to "white". That is a horribly wrong idea; you may just have chosen bad words to say that the media only reports on little rich white girls for these sorts of things, but even this is wrong. Sorry, I'm passionately against stereotyping.

    Back to the debate, a person looking to target a family with a young child to exploit could easily go to a piano recital with many children performing. I am aware of the negative activities that go on behind the fake suntans and flippers (the things you put in your mouth to cover up any missing teeth), but I am sure that those are not necessary parts of every child's beauty pageant experience. Yeah, there are some crazy parents, but those could and probably would turn up in any things their kids participate in. The media was just scapegoating the pageants left and right, with absolutely no evidence or support to their claims other than, "Well, other bad things happen at these pageants. Of course every single kid in the pageant cries to sleep at night and dreads pageants, not one of them sees absolutely any fun in dressing up (!), wearing makeup just like mommy does (!), dancing (!), or getting trophies and pretty tiaras (!)." I enjoyed and know that many girls love doing all of these things; I know girls who raided mommy's makeup drawer, and I personally used to love wearing my mother's high heels to be just like her.

    I'm also sure that most girls don't like being verbally abused upon losing any contests, or getting those damn spray fake tans where you stand in a tiny room and the stuff is sprayed all over you, or anything bad like that; but mothers who force their kids into mess like that are the exception.

    The point I'm trying to make is that it's not just beauty pageants that can be dangerous pastimes for children, and the damn media is just scapegoating pageants because they can. They love stirring up mess because it's interesting, something to gossip about.
  3. Kudryavka
    2010-06-12 00:29
    Are you saying that any child who participated in a beauty pageant is at risk of suffering a similar fate to JonBenet? That even a girl from the lower working class would be put at risk for participating in beauty pageants? I'm thinking that the family was attacked because they had money, and that JonBenet's pageant appearances were just flaunting the family's cash. This means that her death was not directly connected to beauty pageants per se; if JonBenet were a basketball player, soccer player, gymnast, pianist, spelling bee participant, etc., she would still be advertising, even though she's just taking part in pastimes that don't have as bad a reputation as beauty pageants. The media directly attacked the world of child beauty pageants by falsely claiming that JonBenet's death was related not just to the fact that she took part in extracurricular activities, but specifically to the fact that she took part in beauty pageants, of all things. They even went so far as to suggest that the mother killed her because she performed badly at a recent pageant; thanks to the police doing an excellent job at screwing up the crime scene, that suggestion is totally ludicrous and unsupported.

    Should a child refrain from taking part in pageants, or any extracurricular activities, because they'll run a risk of being targeted because a stranger knows their face? No. How about if the parent dumps loads of money into supporting said child's activities? Maybe. But being targeted just because it's a pageant is an idea that I fail to see as more probable than participating in other activities. If JonBenet was a star pianist prodigy whose parents put thousands of dollars into holding contests and buying her the best piano tutors, I guarantee anyone that the media wouldn't be so quick to lash out at piano playing as a superficial and morally wrong pastime, a world that shouldn't be explored by children who are "too young" to be exposed to such ideas, i.e. music.
  4. Kaijo
    2010-06-11 22:58
    You said it yourself; it was because of the pageants. If they hadn't gotten involved, JonBenet would never have been a target. That's not entirely fair, I know, but they put her in the spotlight, and spent a LOT of money on her. That's going to attract attention. If you wanted to kidnap a kid from some rich people, how would you go about it? Find some low-security avenues where rich people parade their kid around.

    In other words, a kid's beauty pageant.
  5. Kudryavka
    2010-06-11 19:54
    I guess we could say that the family was well known for being rich because they sponsored a lot of the pageants JonBenet participated in. However, this sort of "Hey, the Ramsey family is rich enough to sponsor pageants! Deeyum!" advertising through JonBenet's participation in pageants was not exclusive, and the killers could have easily taken JonBenet's older brother for hostage instead (considering he wasn't involved in the killing). Her pastimes didn't make her the target. The killers didn't take JonBenet because she was a pageant star, they took her because she was the youngest Ramsey child, weak and helpless, easy for the picking.
  6. Kaijo
    2010-06-11 10:11
    How did they know to target the Ramsey family? Why that one?
  7. Kudryavka
    2010-06-11 00:06
    Continuing the JonBenet discussion here because I'm starting to get off topic. I hope you don't mind.

    I'm still not getting how beauty pageants relates to her death. The ransom note didn't state anything about JonBenet's pageants, or anything about JonBenet as a person; it just said "Hand over the cash, and we won't take your daughter out." The killers targeted the family because they were rich, and took JonBenet hostage probably because she was, at the time, the youngest and least able to physically resist her captors. How could her death have anything to do with her participation in pageants?

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