But you still love him more than anyone in this thread.

Sometime I feel pity to the princess, if only she know that Makoto have the same feeling as her towards the bug.
I bet it would be interesting if the one met Makoto for the first time is not pig but the princess.

Nah, you can say that i may "love" the situation where is in because i would say the same even if it was other character , since is because of that that i'm defending him, but my answer would still be no i do not love the character be him would any other.
is just something do debate on the novel, we need to start a discussion somewhere right? since i find all this rage Odd since i can agree with a few things that have been said before but all the rage is still simple out of my understanding so i simple wrote about it.
Yeah, the problem with that is now she is too far on her plans to even try to change but i would like to see a spin off where the bug had tossed makoto away and he had find himself in the hands of the princess, at least we can guess that makoto would not be a virgin anymore since we all know how her plan started.

So you like debating.
Defending an object most people dislike as a topic like these is a good one.


About those rage it just as I said before.

Charity, massacare, netori, brainwash, killing, etc.
It would be alright when MC the one doing that as he would labeled as hero, darkhero, antihero, former hero, etc. But when another character that have different standing than mc doing all of that, most reader (or atleast me) would feel fed up.

well i can not disagree with you on that, after all we are here for discussion,and since i'm here for more than simple lightnovel, i use the forum as English training tool too, i'm self taught myself in English and little on CH and JP as well, but right now can i read really well in English already but speaking and writing i'm very bad with it, so i'm trying to change those aspect now, even if this is simple turtle steps, one day i would like to be able to write well and speak too so i could travel to US and Europe as well, etc. haha as you can see every post my as a edit, is because i keep reading it a million times (really sometimes i take one hour to write some of those wall texts, to keep the text better looking, i just do not know if is working. )
but like i said there is all the rage i do not understand too so is a plus.
now this part is why i simple can not accept , for me if is The MC doing it, or any character doing those things i would feel the same, of course most of the time when is the MC doing it we have background information so we can accept better than when is a random character doing it but still would not make me accept it simple because is the MC, at least for me i need is information be it trivial or be it important, unless the author given said information in the novel i would not simple call it evil, good, neutral good, neutral evil and so on and tomoki example is a good one, yes he is the one doing it and he is a human being but once we take everything about him, he is simple being done as tool for those with more power be it real power like bug or brain power like the princess.s

Well, when people read novel, they (I) usually project themselves as the mc, so what the mc done is a righteous thing. (a bit of chuuni thing, but literally fact)


By the way don't take my comment about neutral/law/chaos seriously, I only write it as references from shin megami tensei game franchise which pointing out the ending route player could take based on their allignment.

New raw out but i dont really understand what it is about.

I'm confused..
 

Who's haruka again? since it seems she was a member of tomoki. and whats with the orgy thing?

Haruka as I understand it is a just last chapter mentioned character, she is Iroha-chan's mother. Iroha in case you forgot is the loli was introduced in this arc. With Tomoki incense they need something to relieve their lust since scumbag in chief isn't around.

with how much females are worshiping Tomoki.... when would he reach God level? lol

^^^^^Yeah you are off on your alignment chart friend

What was destroyed wasn't a city, it was a town. More specifically, it was the furthermost border town of the Hyumans. In other words, it likely only had 100 people in it, max, and many of them were either trapped & used as "test subjects" or those doing the testing. Sure, there would have been a number who went there for adventure, searching and the like, but that's where the test subjects came from. Of the 100 people I'm assuming were there, I wouldn't be surprised if 5 to 10 were leaders of the "test subjects" utilization, 20 were their direct subordinates living in town, 10 to 20 were there as transport for both goods and information about the results of the tests, 10 to 20 knew about it, but took a "blind eye" so that they could work at places like the inn for their own needs, 20 to 30 were "test subjects" and the rest were either new or tended not to pay attention to those outside of their direct group.

All in all, Trashmoki might have affected more people than could have been killed, even if you look purely at the numbers. And the amount of people he has permanently affected could be comparable to the number of "innocent" victims of the town that weren't being used as test subjects.

On this i'm sorry, at least in my language a city and town can be translated as the same thing , i do not know about it in English.
now about the number of people, i'm sorry to say but it had a lot more than 100, they are yes the most border town on the country and they are proud of it because they could have build a city there :1: We have a few things that already speaks about the volume and the organization of the town that would show that is way huge than 100 like for example: the main market where the only ones authorized to sell was the ones with a market guild registration, minor players like adventures and so on had to sell their products to them so they could re sell at the market, this alone show how big and organized the town, since to receive/do the card you would need to go back 3 cities .
2:the chapter about the restaurant alone too, we can see that there is a lot of people eating there since not only makoto commented on it but also had to choose a table in the far corner and it was the most expensive restaurant that no one besides the top rich people in the city goes so if we take by normal standard if we have 10-20 eating there and they are the most rich people in the city that represents maybe 1% of the total population of it ( and i'm being generous giving 1%) since we are talking about mainly a adventure town here and not only that the number of people with enough money to eat at that restaurant ,because it was a border town would make them be at least as richer as some nobles of the kingdom, it would be 1000 or 2000 people in total, so calling 100 is far from the truth, it was a town with a fair number of people and if the main job of the city was the adventures we can say that they would need at least 5x or more "normal" people working in the side-lines and everything else, to make it work like was described in the novel, with main market and multiples inns/restaurants
3: the fact that each "party" of adventures had 5-6 with many of them dying and arriving every day, the top adventure in the city was lvl 44x and this level was the level in the same category as when hibiki fought the first war to conquer the fort, so the city even had a national level fight in it, well to be true he was fraud, but the second place was 280 and is still pretty high, lime that was the strongest of tisle was only at 2xx i believe, need to go back to check it.
Now about the entire situation after reading you post a few times in the middle of writing this i think that you may have mistaken something the entire "HQ of the organization" where Mio/Tomoe started their rampage was already big enough to have a few houses and a few ones with more than one floor and by that i can accept that there was more or less 100 people working/living there ALONE, but the entire showdown that Mio and tomoe played had expanded to the entire city and destroyed everything there.
And further more you are giving a lot of assumption of how the entire black market/testing organization took place and mostly of it about the number of people living there,since it simply does not make sense since the only information we had was that a minor number of the "total" adventures of the town tried to intervene in tomoe and mio rescue mission and also a few sideline information like the one i talked before and not even one of them said that the city was small it was saying exactly the contrary since it was a big city for adventures trying their best and becoming strong .
And of course, the number of people that makoto alone had talked that is not involved in the main scam of drug is of course: 2 girls at the guild; one boy at the in; toa sister; the merchants at the market that was 3-5 since two of them proved the fruit and asked some slaves(man power) to take the fruits of the wagon; one garcon at the restaurant and of course the chief who made the food in it:9-11.
Now about the entire illicit works going on there, there was no "test subject " on that city nor anything like experiments and so on, i do not know where you read about it the loan shark had a normal business like in any other city and when the target failed to pay they would take their body to sell as slave or prostitute but if they tried to resist they would drug them to make them be "easy to use" and this already speaks volumes about the number of people of the city, or do you think that they would not need "enough" supplier to keep the demand of a so high risk of dead job, that is prostitution by the use of drugs!
Now since i already wrote enough about the population/size of the city i would like to say about the novel but i do not know if you are reading the raw since the main translation have not explored many things about tomoki yet but it pretty clear that lilly is keeping a very close watch on tomoki since day 1 and is making sure that his eyes do not go out of control since it is a trump card for her and when i say close, i want to say that he is "Living" in their "own" castle(villa) and the only ones who could have direct contact with tomoki is his party and the maids but after the entire beat down from makoto and the start with the test with the new charm drug the number of people that tomoki had brainwash started to grow but before that it was very small , so "no" it would be the same as the number of "innocent victims" on that city but to be fair for me at least tomoki is still a fair worse than makoto since being brainwash by him is worse than dead.
on a final note we may even use the manga as proof of the size of the city, since everything there can at least be called cannon since is a official adaptation with the same name and so on, so check some chapters from 11 and so on and you see that the city population does not come even close to 100, or a most specific page: check the up part of this page :
As you can see the city is as far as the eye can see, and mio and tomoe made everything turn in dust in more or less 2day after makoto had got there, there is a few other pages showing the INN that is a two store huge mansion, well just check it out i'm sure that will make it clear that the city had at least a few thousands people living there. i should have done this from the start and not write this wall of text, but is too late now.
uff: iit took me one hour to write this, i hope there's not many grammatical mistakes, i do not like to write huge all text like this because i always do more mistakes :(.

While you use the manga as proof it was a city that is only true of the LN adaption. The WN is quite different and Makoto states that the population is around 100 and calls it a refugee camp. Second as the LN adaptation changes some things I expect that while the town will still be destroyed more people will also make it out

Well, i was not aware of those differences but i can still say that i do not remember makoto saying only 100 people nor calling it refugee camp , i will check the translation page now to see if reigokai have mentioned it, since i have been reading it from the wayback machine since the start, will edit this soon enough.
well i have just check the chapter when makoto talks about the city:chapter 17, and truly he says that "felt" like a refuge camp, but nowhere he says that it had only 100 people and to add more, like i said before the description of how the city is, at least pass the image that the city is bigger than a simple refuge camp.
Will check the next one now.
done with 18, nothing again about 100 people. on a side note i want to put this information here that reigokai have put on the chapter:
Translator Note:

Makoto is calling it the ‘last village’ but its actually a town. He calls it a village because its the first place he has arrived to. Its like ‘the first village’ you arrive in games or hero stories.
With a little research on the net; for japanese standards town would be classified :The distinction between towns (machi/chō) and villages (mura/son) is largely unwritten and purely one of population size when the settlement was founded with villages having under 10,000 and towns 10,000–50,000:
so besides one small phrase from makoto comparing it to refuge camp, that if we take it in in context; any japanese person who lives in our world would compare a "normal" town of that world with a refuge camp by our standards. also when i was reading i did not remember the information about 100 people and the description on the town gives more information than one phrase from makoto who is clear a statement of a personal opinion from him.

i will also do a speed read for chapter 19 to see if is there but please if you remember the chapter where he says 100 people, tell me so i can check it up because of course i'm not the owner of the truth and can also be wrong too, so i would like to correct myself.

wondering why people say Tomoki Charm works on men.... when you got a male in an underground room with Tomoki Incense in the air and women worshiping Tomoki.

and he isn't

Your right sorry I wasn't quite accurate Makoto calls it a camp not refugee camp, and the actual population size isn't mentioned, but the number of bad guys that Tomoe and mio blew away were 50
Chapter 15 " A town, no, it’s even hard to call it a village. It’s more of a camp" (Makoto)
Chapter 25 "They even blew away the guild’s strongest, Ace, and 50 other adventurer mercenaries that were teaming up!"

Nothing is mentioned of the fate of the rest of the townspeople. Even the inn owner isn't mentioned but he should have been in the safe zone

Its mentioned in the chapter that he is actively resisting the effect through unspecified means.

Yes, the number of towns people is never mentioned, like i said in my previous post, only a minor part of the adventures who tried to go against them.
Now about the owner it is true, we do not have a clear description of anyone besides in the next few chapter when makoto is traveling back but we have a description of the whole "town" after the events and the result was that only the "INN" as left standing and nothing more in miles around it and by that we can take a few assumptions :
1: the onwer may have started to run away once the entire "fight" was happening since is a safe thing to do, once he start to see the city crumble in front of you eyes and got caught on the cross fire and died.
2: he had run away like most people but without the correct preparation and provisions they would eventuality die since it would need one month to reach the each of the different "towns" ,
3:makoto saying in a few chapters later that he was s the only one in the luxury INN, and the only one with a wagon left.
so is a good assumption that they all died in the travel, after all it is the westland or are killed in the attack itself, either way is just a assumption like any other so i can not affirm more than that because the author had not said more.

it was explicit show working on guys before, but i can not say everything about the charm drug since i only got a glimpse of it for the sake of answering some of the questions here, but on the charm one of the notable example would be hibikis partymate the tank and the wizard, both of them are affected by their meeting at the war to re take the fort, and since we had a "mage" and a "warrior" affected at that time is safe to assume that he can also affect others and he had, but i won't check everything again to have the names.
On a final note: like i wrote in previous topics, that his power does not works as love , it work as mean to gain trust/make other believe him and he himself turn the feeling for love by his actions when talking to the woman's, since they are already in a state of "trusting him".
on a more final note: the author changes the word to describe the effect of the charm more than one time on the novel, so the thing i wrote before is more like a summary of the information that i could conclude after reading so far.

I do hope the image of Demihumans goes up in the city and they face less racism since they sheltered all those evacuees. And Makoto made a connection with the red light district people. Its funny how Makoto finds that mutant octopus easier to deal with than the prostitutes.

LOL even if Illumgand was drugged to feel intense emotions, it really doesn't excuse his actions or damages done to the city. At first he did willingly take the pills and seek hostilities with Raidou. Just like Raidou said he could have easily wrote a letter if he wanted to apologize... but no it didn't happen. Why should Raidou go out of his way to help Illumgand reconcile with Ruria when the concerned person does not want to be associated with him at all.

In the theoretical scenario where Mio does let Illumgand go, with his meaty appearance and past actions he will still be exterminated by the victims of his actions or academy forces. That pill does not absolve his responsibility at all. Shiki might have used him as a lab rat if alive. The grudges left behind after the city is turned to rumble will not disappear. He's already pronounced dead by the Lima side, on the contrary it might bring problems to the kingdom if he's alive. For instance, if a drunk driver kills another driver in a car crash, the drunkard will still face the consequences if alive when sober. Illumgand's misfortune is that he picked the fight with the wrong people. Not everyone gets a second chance. The four teammates that Illumgand ate will never get it nor any compensation.

No.... actually it might have been amusing to let Illumgand to reunite with Hibiki, so all those grudges and poor reputation could have been sent her way. The hero's reputation would definitely plummet as well as Lima side's. Speculatively speaking, the Lima Kingdom might even send an extermination order to kill him to redeem their reputation in front of the other nations. Remember that the other nations probably assume Lima Kingdom secretly assisted the chaos in the city and the Hopelace noble head was shamelessly interfering with the tournament that every other major VIP's were watching.
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Additionally Raidou and his followers are not as saintly as other people believe they are. They are neither white nor black, but grey neutral existences in the most extreme of terms. Makoto could care less about people unrelated to him as shown in the future arcs... people easily forget the dark history of Mio, Tomoe, and Shiki who does human and monster experiments. Makoto has objectives and whims, if the objectives calls for it then he will take action. There never has been a time where Makoto views himself as a hero of justice or a savior of sorts, people are just assuming what they want to assume. The future arc will be fun seeing as the military power of Asora will be somewhat utilized in war. I love how the author is really cementing the neutrality of Asora group. No matter if they did heroics or charity in the beginning of the arc, by the end of it its back to neutrality as a whole.

An example of Makoto not caring given by Mio is his indifferent attitude of "There's no helping it if he died." as a reaction to Illumgand's first death; no sadness or joy in that reaction. Mio is logical since her actions follow a set pattern. As soon as an enemy appears to bear hostility to Makoto and takes action towards that intent, then she retaliates. She won't harm people close to Makoto or their associates, but unrelated people are different. Similarly, Makoto won't care either way, but he does kill people when they piss him off regardless of their circumstances. If you want a hero for Hyumans, go find Hibiki.

Urgent Notice
 

Guys particaption of makoto in the war in the raw where he fought with sofia and defeated her seems to have been DELETED cuz its not there anymore.