In OG mainly because she's hunted by Shinra for five years (child Aerith in flashback is 10 y.o so until 15 y.o).
Tseng in Crisis Core didn't know Aerith is still alive until he checked on people around Zack; he kept Aerith status as MIA in respect to Zack.
Remake added part from novel that her high Lifestream sensitivity also plays part on it, made her difficult to befriend anyone due to different of perception about death.

How she ended up loved by everybody is because of Zack, as told in Crisis Core.
When she's 16 years old, she wanted to help Elmyra financial by selling flowers but not sure how to do it because, yes, she's bullied when she was child.
Zack idea is advertised themselves by helping people (side-quests), they eventually opened up to her. Notice that she's closer to children rather than adult.

Aerith in FF VII is 22 years old, so 12 years passed, enough time.

Oh, ok. Thanks. Never really got into Crisis Core so I didn't really know.

Tactics, please keep ending talk under spoiler tags. We don't know who has or hasn't finished the game.

The part about Rebirth that confused me is why

You just explained it yourself.

:heh:

He technically didn't.



There's no conflict with the original.

https://insider-gaming.com/square-en...ithin-3-years/

They're targeting 2027 for part 3, and they revealed Rebirth was actually done in only three years.

Meh. I'll only be pushing 40.

I think I can beat original VII, Remake, and Rebirth by then.

I remember all the doomposting back when it was announced to be several parts but they're really making good time.

I feel like 3 parts was the expected total. Of course it was also expected to be a remake and not a sequel so we never really knew what to expect :heh:.

And I guess 7-8 years could be considered relatively good time for this trilogy.

Staff retention makes a big difference. Unfortunately that's a rare occasion in this industry aside from Nintendo's teams.

In one of interviews, they said they planned for three parts from start aiming for similar experience to OG three discs.
File size and console strength are their base concern so no Part 4 unless they failed to contain what's left within reasonable size for PS5 games.

We can see they did their best under said limitation (writing is efficient with room for speculation; optional bosses (and playtest) goes to simulator and Intergrade, Wutai for Part 3). How many iconic stuffs left? Highwind, Snowboarding, Supernova, Weapons, Knight of Rounds ...

:p

Wonder if Part 3 will have Vincent Chaos https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FcEcjyLWQAIfUoA.jpg

Consumer sentiment regarding Square Enix was much more skeptical back then because the franchise had been on a decline since then.
Dirge of Cerberus and the FF7 Compilation in general did not paint a good look on Square Enix's storytelling ability at the tune, and pretty much every Final Fantasy game had been plagued with unstable development issues since after 12.

I wonder if they're going to eventually combine all of the individual parts into a single game after they release the third.

That's not possible due to physical media constraints. A PS5 blu ray disc can only hold 100GB, and Rebirth alone is already over 145GB.

If Part 3 is about the same size as Rebirth, all three games would nearly take up 400GB.
They could sell them all together as a bundle (they're already doing that for Remake and Rebirth) but ~400GB is a big ask whether you go physical or digital.

They'll definitely sell them as a bundle. Three discs just like back in the day... although it's more like six actually :heh:

This is not entirely true.

Rather than skeptical, SE consumer sentiment regarding FF mostly driven by purist that firmly believed turn-based RPG is definite FF identity, especially numbered title.

So you have funny situation where target audience barked about SE dependency on VII and quality decline are more or less same people that prioritize past series append and dislike everything after X because nothing beats good old days; like how people bash Genesis for being theatrical, ignoring how he's perfect narrative foil to Zack just because Sephiroth matters more, or Kingdom Hearts convinced people SE can make action RPG because its not FF, unaware of Sakaguchi interest for freedom of movement for FF since X and custom tools originated from XII long development time.

Genesis is not a good character :heh:

I think he would have been more effective if he had him connect more with Angeal and especially Sephiroth's human side to creating a major impact on the villain's characterizations in Remake and Rebirth rather than just having him as a villain for Zack just because we can't defeat Sephiroth Crisis Core. I heard the mobile game had planned to expand on Sephiroth's youth (with Yuichihiro Umehara's voice for some reason rather than Morikawa) but I don't know if Genesis was there

Genesis is good character if player actually willing to look to his past with Angeal that spreaded throughout NPC in Crisis Core.

Genesis is son of Banora mayor who always believed he's special because his parents spoiled him too much.
When Angeal parents chosen to carry G Project, his parents paid a hefty amount of money to Shinra so Genesis can be included so he still considered "special". Noticed that Genesis hardly use physical attack to close gap compare to Angeal and Sephiroth.

That's why when degradation hit him, he became overly dramatic.
His parents already died, no more people who usually solved his problem with money. Game speaks enough of his social skill when people noted he have no real friend other than Angeal.

His character is fully intended to be foil of Zack.

One is person who actually climb SOLDIER hierarchy, befriend many; training, realist and hard work; one is theatrical, spoiled, supported by multiple instant achievement. Both are village boys wanted to be successful. Just like how Cloud is opposite of Sephiroth despite both motivation to work in Shinra was because of "mother".

He's not the best villain for VII but to made character like him without proper understanding of Cloud vs. Sephiroth and ethical issues behind Shinra business is a big no (Lazard and Genesis are byproduct of Rufus father management style).

As time goes, I doubt people that complained about decline on story quality after X often pay attention, unlikely touched stuffs like Crystal Chronicles, Dissidia, Type-0 or SoP or maybe simply set the bar unrealistically high.

The only series SE talked about writing QC is XIII.

Cloud is meant to be Zack's foil, not Sephiroth. It's literally in their name (Cloud Strife vs Zack Fair)
Cloud is no hero, experiences internal turmoil and multiple setbacks while Zack is the actual SOLDIER 1st Class, is overall positive and straightforward.

Sephiroth is theatrical and megalomanic in his own way, and he's still popular as a villain. The same cannot be said about Genesis, and making excuses about how he's intended that way or how people don't understand him doesn't make him any more likable.

Mainline Final Fantasy games have had development issues and mixed reception since 12. The international revision of 12 was well-received, but people forget that the vanilla version came out to mixed reviews.
I shouldn't even need to explain about 13's issues, or 14's launch with A Realm Reborn.

I should also remind you that the FF7 Compilation ended with Dirge of Cerberus, which was not well-received at all. The fanbase had plenty of reason to doubt whether another FF7 game would be any better when SE had nothing else to show for it at the time.

Not quite true.

Zack in OG VII is just there as Cloud new persona template. He only become full-fledged character by Crisis Core.

Sephiroth is, by all intent. Both career in Shinra driven by their mother, both are stronger than regular human since birth.
However one feel superior and wanted to destroy humanity while the other feel inferior and wanted to connect with others. Zack and Genesis is also like that, both are village boys aspired to become hero but one is spoiled to the point he coped with failure and Shinra unethical method by drown himself being theatrical, while the other one insisted to believe good will prevails.

Sephiroth being megalomaniac is understandable since he's been killing people since child and he snapped because his "mother" quickly explained his abnormal strength.
Genesis is not like that. He and Angeal had normal childhood. Spoiled by his parents. Felt betrayed by Shinra that ditched him and Angeal in favor of Sephiroth and Zack that never questions them. So when it comes out hammy, its not writing flaw; completely ignores how he spent majority of game asking all SOLDIERs if their loyalty worth it when he's living proof that SOLDIERs are disposable asset, not a glorious career. Narratively, Sephiroth case of birth circumstances isn't working for Zack, Genesis case of expectation and reality is.

XII is definite proof of what I said, target audience bias to good old days.

XII International didn't change story only provide new Gambit and replace Skill Board with Zodiac Job Board.
People have mixed reaction because not only politics-driven story but also in OG they have to set AI and min-maxing from beginning; purist didn't care all the changes already approved by Sakaguchi. In Zodiac Age, they only need to choose Jobs and done, no need feel guilty to set AI commit to healing because you decide that person is White Mage unlike before.

Zodiac Age better sales is not telling OG is not well-baked, more like they comply to people that wanted easier game.
A is Knight, B is Healer, etc. Attack faster, no need to care about reposition. Majority of change just to sped up the game, so no real issues other than outside loyal fanbase comfort zone. I lived through times people bashed OG XII because its not pure turn-based and Vaan had no saying in politics, unlike Tidus that bravely kick Seymour the high priest.

To say writing of new-gen FF become bad is too much.
I've played most of them and I can say the quality is pretty consistent with actual cares to what it tried to tell. More often its the gameplay expectation that hurts; case of XII and how majority of critics toward Dirge triggered by expectation it'll be turn-based like OG VII or high profile action like Devil May Cry.

FF 'new-gen' primary issue already addressed by Toriyama, Yoshida, Tabata and Kitase in various interviews and live-letter.
Of course, more than likely, the so-called fanbase gracefully ignored it. Easier to said its bad while consuming VII and X appends.

Their names haven't changed since the original. If you can't tell that Cloud Strife and Zack Fair were deliberate choices by the creators, nothing I say will convince you anyway.

Even from how little Zack was in the original, we can tell that they were written as polar opposite characters.
Cloud began as a failure and a fake, but struggles and eventually grows into a real hero.
Zack is the one with the real status, but dies in futility and failed where Cloud succeeds (against Sephiroth).

Dirge of Cerberus was not a good game even by 3rd person action game standards.
Betrayed expectations for a turn-based combat system does not account for how much more negative the reception for Dirge of Cerberus was even compared to the original Crisis Core.

What about Vincent's characterization? Seems that while he is a loner, he also has a childish side when playing cards or the famous cellphone line from Advent Children that makes it sound like the famous meme "How is it hanging fellow kids?"

I never realized but Zack's redesign in the second half of Crisis Core, and later installments are all tributes to Angeal. He has retains the spiky hair but his forehead is clean without the bangs. Besides the Buster Sword, he wears the same Soldier first Class uniform like Angeal in contrast to Sephiroth and Genesis who chose to wear whatever they liked.

Was looking all over for the FFVII: Remake thread until I realized it was this one renamed...

Finally beat Remake last weekend. Spent this week maxing my materia and getting a few trophies. Today I tried the Chapter 17 Shrina Battle Simulations. Up to and including the trio battle went fine enough. But, GOOD LORD, the Top Secrets battles are awful. Shiva is a problem for me, and Fat Chocobo (well, really his minions) is absolutely curb-stomping me. I can't make it past Fat Chocobo, so I can't imagine even if I somehow did that I'd make it through the next 3 battles. I gotta be doing something wrong because I can't be THAT bad.

I got too frustrated with Top Secrets this afternoon, so I just skipped it and went to Intermission. I wasn't planning on getting anywhere near Platinum for Remake anyway. So far, at least I am enjoying myself more than I was this afternoon since Yuffie is gloriously goofy in Intermission.

Rebirth is sitting on my TV stand right now, so maybe I'll get to that next weekend if I can cruise through Intermission and do all I want to do in that.

Did you go through the whole game in hard mode first? There's a lot you learn during it. I don't recall having too much trouble, but if I had jumped straight from normal mode to hard Shinra simulator, I definitely would have.

In fact, when I played Intermission a year or so later, I got my ass totally kicked by Weiss in the simulator because I was really rusty. I quickly just gave up. In Rebirth, I didn't even bother with the hard simulator missions. I did all the other side content except this.

That's not possible since Hard Mode only unlocks after you beat the game.

The only options available at the beginning are Easy, Classic, and Normal.

That's why I'm asking him if he has. The last battle simulations are locked to hard mode, so someone who has only played normal mode would obviously have trouble completing them. You learn to play completely differently on hard mode.

I did not, no. The only Hard content I played was the set of simulator missions leading up to the Top Secrets challenge. I didn't really have any problems with those Hard missions, however many there were.

Already in Intermission I'm having a problem because I am not a Parry/Counter sort of player. I really struggle with this sort of stuff.

Honestly, Cloud's emotional state in the ending is kinda weird. He first had that church scene, and then we went to Ancient's temple city he falls into despair when you know what happens but starts fighting. However, he was calm in the final scene when going to the next location. The inclusion of Zack felt kinda forcedd even if that was the crossover we wanted. He does feel comfortable about letting Aerith outside his journey and fight but it feels at the same time he forgot about her death.

Then again, in the original FFVII Cloud was able to calm himself in the end of disk one when travelling to the mountain to the point there is a random game involving a Turk member in disk 2.

Could it be that Cloud was able to "heal" in Rebirth in contrast to the original where it took him two years to confront his survivor guilt when it came to Aerith's fate as he talks with her in Advent Children about asking for forgiveness?

Sephiroth like Aerith has knowledge of the original timeline. Unlike Aerith, he wasn’t losing that knowledge. He recognized Tifas threat to his ambitions. How she could fix Cloud. So he kept taunting Cloud to further drive him into a corner. To put a wedge between him from Tifa.

The only confusing thing to me is what happened to Aerith. Cloud appeared to save her but she still died. I must’ve missed a scene.

My take is still that Cloud is in denial. It's not the first time he's been delusional, since we know how he remembers the Nibelheim incident.

You can see that when Tifa and the rest of the party arrive, they see that Aerith's eyes are closed with blood everywhere. The only one who sees otherwise is Cloud.

The reason why Cloud's emotional state is "weird" is because it does not match the situation he's in. Everyone else is upset, and all of their Limits are maxed out when the fight starts.
The only one who isn't upset is Cloud, who starts the fight with his Limit gauge completely empty.
Why? Because Cloud does not see what everyone else is seeing.

The thing is, Cloud can see the borders between worlds, probably because he has been trippin' around - and in some of them, Aerith is around, so he could literally be talking to another Aerith. She's also merged with the Lifestream in a peculiar manner (ever since the ending of the OG), so... IMO she's dead in the main world, but she's kinda like Sephiroth, an immortal consciousness that can still affect the living.

My head hurts just reading all of that. Somehow I feel like I'm going to not like the way Rebirth goes when I eventually get to it (bumming around Intermission right now, absolutely loving how Yuffie is).

I'd say the story is up in the air, but keep in mind that Advent Children is canon, so... no matter what happens, that's where we gotta end up. Intermission was super fun, I did everything in one sitting, with the exception of an extra fight.

At some point I need to rewatch Advent Children considering I haven't seen it since it came out.

I'm to try Yuffie's Box Challenge tonight. I hear getting 50k on SOLDIER suuuuccccks.

Yeeeah, the box challenge might require a few attempts to learn the route. I honestly don't really hate any of the mini-games, but I sure wish they had checkpoints or something. Good luck with them boxes!