Tate no Yuusha/Shield Hero - Episode 14 Discussion / Poll
 

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That was a raphtalia focused episode which is pretty good, dedicate a little it of time to her is always nice. Is evident that all the abuse commited by the fat guy and the tragedy that happened on the town where Raph used to live as a child left a deep scar on her mind, Naofumi wasn't acting based on his feelings most of the time in this episode but at the same time he wanted to take care of Raph and save Melty from this fat guy.

Is understandable why Raph wanted to deal with this problem alone and I respect how naofumi isn't getting in the way, she's strong enough to face that piece of shit who's now begging for his life.

And suddenly we have a tragic heroine backstory arc!

I don't know if I'm not paying attention every episode or whatever but I can't really understand why some of the characters here do what they do.

First off, that's one mighty coincidence, they find themselves in friendly territory, got some rest, and then suddenly the fat guy from somewhere decides to invade and "arrest" their ally the next day! Really?? On what basis, it's not like Nao and the others were seen around that mansion! Not only that, he has a past with Raphtalia! Small world! And finally, the skinny guy who's supposed to be a noble only has 2 maids with him? No soldiers/bodyguards? While that other guy has a small army? Really???

Then I thought they were all running away from the murderous bi Myne but suddenly Melty wants that other nobleman to take her to the capital? I know they wouldn't have been able to escape if not for that ruse Melty came up with, but what if something happened to her between getting captured and Nao infiltrating the castle? Did she forget that the soldiers directly under the king tried to run a sword through her days ago?

The fat guy already did something illegal by arresting and torturing a fellow lord, so what's stopping him from doing the same to Melty? It just doesn't make any sense because I thought the whole thing was to prevent Myne from finding out where Melty was???

Friendly territory was a coincidence (as was Reichnott just popping up out of nowhere), but may have had something to do with the past lord of the area, who treated demi-humans fairly (based on Raphtalia's recollections). Probably also related to the close proximity to Siltvelt, as treating demi-humans badly right on their border would be like taunting them and inviting an invasion.

Obviously Idol (fat guy) has spies in his neighbors' territories. Given his behavior and personal army, he's unlikely to trust any of them. Thus he probably got word about the Shield Hero's party entering Reichnott's estate fairly quickly.

Idol having a past with Raphtalia... Well, she obviously has to have had her past take place somewhere, which means we were going to run into it eventually.

Reichnott has at least 3 maids, as the one who was helping them hide in the kitchen was different than the two that served dinner. The two that we see in the attic are the one who helped them hide, and one of the servers.

As for why he only has a handful of maids, and not an army of soldiers, well, we don't know anything about the size or wealth of his domain, but we do see that he has a modest 3-story mansion, whereas Idol has a walled keep atop a cliff-faced hilltop, with easily defensible raised roads that lead out to the surrounding town. The difference in apparent power is massive. Just based on where they live, I would absolutely expect Idol to have a personal army (pretty much needed to make that castle make sense), whereas Reichnott's handful of maids is all that's needed if he lives there alone. If he had a family, I'd expect more servants, and maybe a guard retainer or two. However if he's as good at stealth as implied, a personal guard for him would be of minimal value.

Further, Reichnott seems to rule an area mainly populated by demi-humans. I expect that if he had a retinue of soldiers under his command, that could create a lot of agitation with nearby nobles.

As for Melty asking for Idol to escort her back to the capital: She still has that implicit trust in nobility, and expects that, even if Idol has some issues with the king, he will still conform to certain levels of behavior and decorum. Despite what she's learned from Naofumi, she still believes that nobles will "behave properly", more or less. She doesn't want to believe that Myne is not exactly the exception.

Further, even if her own guard turned against her, Idol's soldiers are his personal army. It would be unthinkably unlikely that they would be under the same influence as those that would convince the king's soldiers to betray royalty. Or, more specifically, that can't be controlled by Myne, and thus are inherently more trustworthy. Having them escort her back to the capital is a logical decision, as they aren't likely to betray her, and will protect her from any attempts by the royal guard to attack her. Well, if Idol wasn't a horrible scumbag, anyway.

Looks like fatso there was a member of the church here. Good thing Nafoumi intervened, it was clear where that was going. Especially considering the disgusting implications about Raphatlia's past and that sicko's choice of weapon.

Also LOL at Filo doing her impression of the Kool-aid Man

Raphtalia took those whips like a boss. She didn't even flinch. Health regen too stronk.


Perfection~

I don't know but this episodes made me feel better than last week's. Naofumi seems more mature than last time, we got more screentime for the supporting characters and for once, people are being nice.

Then again, while many will find the obvious pedo guy disturbing, I think it's better shown as a threat than when the "other hero" started chasing Filo in some sort of comic relief.

I find it a bit hard to believe that Idol guy would be willing to torture Melty, the freaking crown princess. Evil shouldn't equal dumb/reckless. As far as we know and unless I missed some hints, he isn't in Myne's pocket and he knows the king personally (Melty mentioned they fought together), why would he risk doing such a thing to his king's daugther? He'd be digging his own grave.

I believe Reichnott has a connection to the previous lord or something. And as for Idol's presence, it was already mentioned that the moment the king got a little bit of authority he used it to move pro-demi-human nobles to places where they'd have no power or influence and replaced them with people like that. I'd imagine that's at least why someone that blatant has a position so close to Reichnott's manor and apparently has enough power to pull stunts like this. King's prejudice is strong enough to tread the boundary between taking liberties while watching things for his wife and complete hostile takeover. How much would you bet the moment the queen comes home a whole lot of those recently-promoted nobles will find themselves demoted and/or arrested?

He already kidnapped her. His best course of action at that point would be to get information from her and then discard of her before the king finds out.

He didn't kidnap her. She willingly went with him. A lot of his soldiers know she's in his castle, and as we've seen they're not very loyal. He doesn't seem like the type to trust others, either. If he intended to kill her, he should have been more stealthy about it. Why would he want to kill a princess anyway? He's got more to gain by bringing her back safe and sound to her father.

And before anyone brings it up, being a follower of the church doesn't make him immune to the king's wrath.

He essentially said "Take her" to the soldiers-- He didn't give her an option, she just went with the flow after the fact. He also kidnapped the noble of that manor and was beating him, she was a direct witness to that. Get rid of any trace of evidence that Melty was there, and the king would never know. Let Melty go back and she'll put in a bad word to the king about him. The other soldiers would be culpable for not protecting the princess so they'd have to keep quiet about it. The king threatened to have the heads of the soldiers if they couldn't find Melty, imagine what they'd do if they were in the vicinity of Melty and didn't save her.

You'd think that with them being fugitives, everyone would try to come up with better disguises than just having Naofumi wear a hood.

So it seems like a lot of this anti Demi-Human sentiment popped up after something occurred during the First Wave, which I guess is when something bad happened to the king's other family which is why he sicked the knights on Raphtalia's village (if I'm following the order of events correctly). Was there some kind of a rebellion that the original Shield Hero led or inspired? Maybe Sitvelt led an incursion into Melromarc to cause a Demi-Human uprising :eyebrow:?

Well, I guess if one good thing is coming out of this is that Melty is realizing just how much of the kingdom needs to be reformed when she hears how the Demi-Humans have been treated and seeing how corrupt some of the nobility is. The fact that she says she'll make sure Raphtalia sees justice for what happened to her is a positive sign for her as future queen and for the kingdom as a whole :).

Nothing says you can trust somebody by them emphasizing your food isn't poisoned and then getting arrested trying to protect you from evil nobles. I also have to admit, "The only one I know is the Shield Hero" is a pretty awesome line ;).

It's nice to see that Naofumi has finally come around to Melty and realizes she's a truly genuine and good person who believes in him as the Shield Hero, to the point where he's willing to go out on a limb to protect and save her. And conversely being with Naofumi helps bring out the more childish emotions Melty usually represses :D.

I wonder if a lot of the knights and lords are under standing orders by Myne to prioritize finding and taking care of the Shield Hero first and securing Melty for Myne to take care of later. Malty's whole ruse relies entirely on Melty not getting close enough to the king to be able to reveal to him what's been going on so she probably has to make sure Melty doesn't even get close to the capital :frustrated:.

With her magic, I have to imagine Melty was probably safe from that noble, but getting distracted and grabbed gave a legitimate reason for Naofumi and company to really step in :eyespin:.

Man, you know the latest evil noble is a real piece of work when even Raphtalia, of all people, seems to despise them with every fiber of her being. Like, this is the girl who has been unfailingly polite and courteous to everyone, even people who she knows have screwed over her beloved Naofumi, so seeing her have such a violent reaction to someone and seem willing to kill them in cold blood says a lot. I can only imagine how horrifying what Raphtalia went through as a slave was before Naofumi found her :upset:.
I actually was wondering if a lot of this anti-Demi-Human sentiment or treatment is yet another thing we can blame on the queen being gone and leaving the king in charge :rolleyes:?

Yep. But note how his behavior echoes Myne's. I am getting the same vibe here as with Naofumi framing: things does not making sense to me. Which imply that I don't know something important about situation. Or just bad plot. Not really sure about this case yet - there is some promise but also some disappointments.

With those badly drawn Wanted Posters, a hood is all they need. :heh:

I don't think so? The impression I got was that the lord that used to rule that area (and was killed during the first Wave) was attempting to mend relations with the demi-humans. That implies this hostility has been going on for much longer than that.

Also remember that the first Wave was only a few months before the summoning, at best. That's not nearly enough time to build up the type of racial hatred we see here.

Sort of. She was holding her hands out like she was preparing to fire off one of her water blasts, to the point that I was surprised that she was just warning him off and not actually casting the magic. The only thing I can figure is that, from what we've seen of magic casting, it requires a pretty long chant phrase before taking effect, and she's likely pretty vulnerable during that time. (EG: Interrupting the chant might cancel the magic? Focusing on the chant itself might lock you in place, preventing you from defending?) I'm guessing that casters normally need protection while casting in order for them to be effective.

Edit: Not to mention the sheer difference in body sizes.

I guess Tales games aren't the only place to find goofy Wanted Posters :heh:.

I forgot to even mention that, that's another really convenient coincidence!

He was invading a fellow noble's territory, it shouldn't have been that easy!

If the skinny guy's arrest was too easy because he only had 3 maids with him, it was also too easy for all those demi-humans from his territory to storm the fat guy's castle, right up to his front gate!

I just realized this, it didn't even occur to me how the fat guy who had a small army wasn't able to stop a mob of peasants from running up to the front gate of his castle.

Also, Nao commented something about how the stealth skill of the skinny guy was not normal, since he crept up on them without Nao noticing, but yeah, he got captured that easily. Sure, he might've been taken by surprise, but why point out the stealth skill of that guy if he's not going to use it??

If her own older sister tried to kill her because she's with the shield hero, and even claimed that she was brainwashed and threw fireballs at her, how can she trust some other noble to safely take her to the king? They were all together with Nao when they met the skinny guy, but it's a different situation when she's all alone with the fat guy and there's nobody around to protect her, not to mention if Myne suddenly shows up and Melty's turned over to her!

The noble attacked the skinny guy's mansion because he was looking for the shield hero, and she already knew Myne planted some fake news about how Nao burned down the forest to cover their tracks and that Nao brainwashed Melty, so it isn't a stretch for her to conclude that the fat guy was in on the plot and that he might just kill her, regardless of whether he's acting under the orders of Myne or not.

Again, I thought the point of all this hiding was so they couldn't find Melty because Myne/Malty was trying to kill her, and that they don't know who to trust, then suddenly she comes out in the open, confirming their location and at the same time makes it easier for Myne to dispose of her.

Depends on his power and influence. Considering the current political environment he's probably got a fair degree of influence, and if he'd gotten some inkling that Melty might be there, he'd have prerogative. The guy appears to run a fairly small, largely rural territory, and with his unpopular position he probably couldn't just stand against him and refuse entry or anything. It'd just give him more fuel to claim some sort of collusion. It's all a matter of how much political power and prestige he has. There certainly are some who can throw their weight around like that. Especially if they have some sort of background of achievements to further bolster their position.

To protect Naofumi and Melty. If he saves his own backside, he leaves Naofumi and Melty defenseless in a position where even if they escape they'll still pinpoint their location and thus their route. No matter how things work out they'd be in even more danger. Not to mention that Melty is in the hands of a man who at the very least BELIEVES he has enough power to get away with anything up to and including killing a princess whose political position is inconvenient to him and framing a guy who he can't confirm was present (though the top-ranking nobles will automatically believe and insist must have been). Escaping would be worse for her yet again.

Not to mention his people. If he fled, this could be used against him to push him out much faster than if he stood up for himself and claimed no knowledge of the Shield's presence. Flight would be taken as confirmation of guilt and leave his people in a very vulnerable state, while enduring this torment and insisting no involvement gives him a better chance at maintaining his position and thus protecting everyone.

There's a huge difference between believing in one bad apple who deceives others, tricks them into colluding with her and does what she wants and recognizing that the nobility is filled with people who are just as bad. And it takes even more to believe that a noble would be so very arrogant, sure of his security and determined to get what he wants that he'd risk raising a hand against her. She recognizes that there's a bad apple in the government and some negative prejudices, she doesn't recognize that there are people like this.

That was Naofumi's goal. Melty wanted to protect him and secure the party's safety more. She wanted them to just pack up and run while she took a shot that Idol would take her to the king (again she knows her sister's a bad person, but not that there's tons of others just as bad), not for them to just hide long enough to regroup and come to her rescue.

At this point the best way for this to make sense is what you said. I'd the church is the most likely culprit, what with Idol making a point to show his cross. They're also the only one with enough influence over the masses, including the nobles and the soldiers, to carry that out. The true mastermind is probably Myne though, she's just using them to get what she wants. And they in turn probably think they're using her.

The question is who is the Church supporting? Is it Myne? The King? Both? Or is it a full on rebellion and coup and they want power for themselves? There's got to be some sort of end game here.

If you have problems understanding why a noble could just waltz into another noble's territory and take him captive, then uhh, how do I put this... Not all nobles are equal.

Hmm, my take is a bit different. Myne does not seem to be clever enough to be the mastermind but yes, she may be the driving force behind the events. Catalyst of sort. But to catalyze you need reagents, what are they?

So the question for me does Myne just got lucky with the situation or is there someone else pulling the strings behind the scene? Realistically I'd say first but there is matter of waves. Strange factor that makes no sense for me. May be there is still more than meets the eye.

BWTraveller and Dengar covered most of the problem points, but I want to note that the demi-humans did not get to Idol's front gate. They only got to the gate that protects the bridge over the chasm that surrounds the keep, which is itself surrounded by a major wall. They were about three levels removed from being anything resembling an actual threat. There was nothing preventing them from getting to that point, so of course it's "easy". It's like saying it's too easy to walk up to the front door of the grocery store (whether the store is opened or closed). It's a meaningless objection.

my god he procreated

https://33.media.tumblr.com/7f704b42...fNq1qk1uvh.jpg

With what? A Female Elmer Fudd considering the way Charmless talks?

Well anyway, back on topic.

Melty herself revealed her motivation to Naofumi. She's feeling guilty she hasn't been able to do more to stop what's going on as she feels responsible as the heir to the throne that she should be able to make this stop and is frustrated that she can't figure out how. She thinks her mother is counting on her to resolve the situation and wants to live up to her mother's faith in her. She's ashamed to hear about what a group of Melomarc soliders did to Raphatalia's destroyed village. She meant well but as a child she was naive enough not to realize that instead of taking her back to the Capital to confront her father and put and end to this that the tub of lard might have other plans for her instead and didn't realize the position she put herself into until it was too late. It's not that Melty's an idiot, she just isn't experienced enough yet. I mean she's a child. I can't think she's more than 12 at best. These last two episodes have tried to highlight that Melty is a little girl in WAY over her head.

This might be the case here, but I don't know and haven't seen enough to say for sure that this is the correct explanation. We'll see in the next episode since that might also focus on how Idol got to where he is now.

It's possible that this skill of his was mentioned now and will be useful later on. Yeah I might've been too hasty since this arc isn't over yet.

I was basing how I expected Melty to react on what Nao did when he learned about what Myne's accusation. I guess Nao really is the only emo kid in all this and Melty handled her sister's betrayal better than Nao did.

Melty had a deathwish and wanted Nao/raccoon/turkey to live, got it.

Yeah I agree. I hope that Melty stops doing these things though, they create more problems for everyone lol.

We haven't even seen actual nobles outside of the royal family and the capital before this episode, let alone know how they're organized into their territories or whatever. I apologize for not being savvy enough to instantly understand why a noble didn't even have a single soldier/bodyguard with him and all he had were 3 maids.

Point is it was still awfully close to the castle deep inside Idol's territory. If you arrested a neighboring territory's lord and expected the peasants to march towards your keep to demand their lord back then you would've at least put up checkpoints or patrols or something before a large mob arrived awfully close to your castle/mansion/keep.

That's not how castles work; you can to use the castle superiority; not make our soldiers unprotected in a checkpoint; this is not a gun zone .

It's nothing worth apologizing for. It's just that not every noble actually can afford an army of soldiers.

Gotta bear in mind that she's had a decade to get used to her sister's nature. To Naofumi she was a complete stranger and the first and only person to treat him warmly, and then suddenly turned into a monster who'd throw the most heinous accusations at him just to get a little extra money and a little more favor with the popular Spear, so this was a huge shock. To Melty she was a selfish, shortsighted sociopath who resents being replaced as heir to the throne who finally decided to go ahead and get rid of her. It goes down a whole lot easier when you already know the person you're dealing with eats live puppy hearts for dessert.

And as far as the peasants' ability to come straight up to his castle, as Maximilian mentioned, it's a matter of how castles work. Generally speaking in feudal societies nobles don't have huge armies watching the entirety of their territory at all times. The vast majority of his military would likely either be in the castle itself or abroad serving the king or overlord. A sizable and well-organized army would be reported fairly quickly but not a moderate-sized band of commoners with pitchforks, and either way they'd most likely defend themselves from the well-fortified castle rather than risk men's lives in open battle.

This is assuming that Melty already has knowledge of how awful her sister is before all this. Other than Malty being a "problem child" since she was little, I didn't get the impression anybody knew how evil Malty/Myne is since she only acts like a cartoon villain when the Shield is involved.

Yeah, my knowledge of medieval fortifications is not that good, sorry! :heh:

That's a decent assumption, but it could be wrong, we mostly see Melty when the shield hero is there, but she could perfectly act like a cartoon villain with other people, it might not be too far fetched to assume she does, since she lost her rights to sucession before the shield hero even existed in her world.

Most of the people who Myne interacts with on any regular basis are her inferior in social status. So when she tells someone to do something they're going to hop to it because legally they have to do what she says. So most people aren't going to dare defy her. It's when she encounters the few people who have enough power to not have to hop when she says jump or just have nothing left to lose and doesn't give a frick anymore does her real personality come out.

Given that we know almost nothing about the queen at this point, I just hope we get a rational explanation as to why Malty is this evil and why she isn't the crown princess.

I wonder what the interaction between Myne and the Queen is like, she's one of the few people she can't boss around :heh:

catch up with this series, and letting aside the plot is a bit conveniently over the place, and there's too much stupidity going around, it's generally so far so good.

Anyways, speaking of Myne I think that before the waves she was mean but not a villain as she is now, the levels she reached are over the top. There was not the reason nor the chance to do so. That, aside for the reason she got ousted on which I'll refrain making speculations because we have still too little knowledge about the reign. I mean, this fact alone, Myne removal from the line of succession, is quite anomalous. As much as the Queen being exiled given the context they are in, a matriarchal society. I'm expecting the two events to be strictly related. Last, the king who was once not royalty, and likely not even nobility. Speaking of which, did I get it wrong or he said something about a previous shield hero? So that's not the first time the waves came?

The waves had to have happened before in order for their to be a previous Shield Hero and Summoning ritual, right?

That's correct.

I don't think the Queen was "exiled". She's just travelling through other countries for diplomatic negotiations of some sort. If she was exiled the Shadows wouldn't answer to her, her word would not have such instant authority as seen in the show, her designation of heir would have no weight and even if it did Melty wouldn't have a responsibility to follow her orders. It's made pretty clear throughout that the queen is still in power, she just happened to be visiting other countries for various reasons.

And yes there was at least one previous Shield mentioned, but again how long ago this was has not been stated. The fact that the Church has managed to develop an entire religious belief centered around three and demonizing the fourth suggests to me that it'd been at least a few generations. Dogma doesn't change that quickly, so it'd take a bit for them to erase the historic knowledge of the predecessor's achievements and replace them with whatever "demonic" acts they came up with.

Well, not formally exiled, but practically. She is not reigning anything, not even when she tries to stop her husband and first daughter villain actions. She has to do it through the Shadows. Why? She is not exercising the power she is supposed to have. She doesn't even act directly or in first person toward the king, her husband, but she uses her daughter.
In regard of being traveling, the castle I remember she was pictured in was a rotten one, for any reason she was there, an odd location to put a Queen in. And the location was always the same iirc.

About the previous Shield I meant that I was under the impression the King met this previous Shield, or in any case he caused the lost of someone he loved, maybe when he was young, so not yet Royalty. The king said something of the likes, moreover linking it with to demi-humans.