Anyone else thinks that console games are a hindrance to game development?
 

It dawned on me that video games are not evolving at the same pace they did in the early 90s and early two thousand. I wonder what type of games we would have had now if most game developers weren't focus on creating games for outdated technologies.

We have been using DX9 in most games for decade now, even though DX11 is out, but very few games are being developed for it.

Perhaps the only game that has pushed the envelope is Crisis. I think it is really sad that console games are not designed in way that allows for hardware upgrades as computers do, because all they are doing is bringing video game development to a halt.

I guess the money is too good to pass up...

Consider the following:

1. It's a industry, therefore it's for profit. At some point innovations and improvements are warranted when the gaming masses want them, but if still makes you money then there's no point in throwing it away just yet.

2. It's comparatively more difficult and more resource intensive to develop software for new technology and new platforms. The average gamer can't tell the difference between Dx11 and Dx9.0c (I certainly as hell can't!), so unless your new technology breaks new ground to attract the masses, it may simply be not worth it.

3. Consoles were also designed primarily for people who can't afford the next Pentium processor or the next Radeon GPU. Consoles are there to last you a while to play games without having the need to bust out more caps to play the next big game. Plus consoles are more capable than what most people give them credit for. People are actually surprised at the things even even aged consoles can do if developers used the technology well.

no actually games don't evolve is because of those DX9 or 10 or 11

it is due to the faq that because of limits of consumer usage that games dont evolve

Agreed. Games cost too much and require too much time (in order to play) to make large scale experimental titles (at least in America). Consequently, producers tend to create games that have a built in audience (the franchise titles, or games of a specific genre, etc), and only produce a few titles that attempt to go beyond the ordinary.

Anyway, this should really be in the Games thread...

Don't forget that many systems can't handle many games. This computer can't take HL2 ep 2. And forget about FSX, and L4D. The technology to make extremely advanced games is out there, but is unrealistic to have commercially. (I think I understood this topic correctly. derr)

Games like Crysis are exactly why they don't do what you want them to do, OP.

It's too demanding. It demanded more hardware than actually even existed at the time of its release.

But no, console focus isn't killing the gaming industry. In fact, it's actually making it bigger and better, especially with so many developers focused on concurrent development. Exclusives are going the way of the dodo.

What's been dying is PC gaming, but it appears that with the MMORPG fad starting to lose its luster, PC gaming seems to be bouncing back fairly well. The sooner World of Warcraft dies, the sooner MMORPGs go back to being a niche genre, the sooner we'll see a proliferation of quality single-player titles on the PC platform.

Now if only Square Enix will stop being a whore and fucking port Final Fantasy XIII to the PC... :(

I'd rather have a game that makes the most of a platform like Shadow of the Colossus or Ico than a game that makes my hardware obsolete and pushes me to buy a better hardware, only to have it rendered obsolete by the next new shiny FPS.

The reason games aren't evolving is because as they become more part of the mainstream media, the harder it is to sell new ideas unless you are already built up a solid foundation as gaming company like Nintendo or Square Enix. Investors like to see what they know will work therefore games with similar elements come out and gaming comes to a halt, now all industries care about is making money.

Back then games were a relatively small market, therefore there was more room for new and creative ideas and innovation because there wasn't a guaranteed success plan. For example current shooters have a guarenteed success plan now:

Short, cliche or bad story + Great online = Cha-ching

Anyway as gaming grows its hard to make an innovative or original idea because more things will become common.

This. Now I consider myself a PC elitist to a degree, but this is largely true to a big extent.

It's a universal problem, not limited to any platform, I'd say.

Businesses only ever cared about making money, but when gaming was more of a niche market, the more serious gamers are a lot harder to please than the unwashed masses. :heh: Hence the proliferation of shovelware titles these days.

The industry knows it doesn't have to rely on the picky hardcore gamer niche anymore. It can just cash in with Halo clones and the next Madden title on the drunken-fratboy crowd.

The company that got me into hardcore video gaming was a company called SNK and nintendo. SNK used to make really great tittles. Well in the end the company died due to bad marketing decisions. Their games are timeless classics and the technology they used to have was way ahead of its time.

Now every time I see a game coming out of no where I see nothing but recycled concepts and "shallow entertainment".

Here is an amazing video called:

Neo Geo - The Rise and Fall of SNK Neogeo

It is not just a documentary about the company but a tale of the game industry.



Edit:
"Investors like to see what they know will work" this is very true indeed. I believe this is the very reason why video game development has been halted during this decade.
Back in the 90s when I used to live in south america, I used to come across really innovative tittles. Some of those type of games would never made a reappearance. Their style gone for good.
Take for example Captain Tsubasa 2; the game was really great. I remember playing that game in Japanese and I still managed to beat it. The game was just that good XD



Name one game that has come out in the last decade that has a similar play style.

SNK made... fighting games.

I don't see how that's even in the same league as something like Shadow of the Colossus or even Portal.

Uh lol ? I don't know how old you are but video game is not about graphics it's about pleasure. You don't need great graphics to make a great games. There are many other parameters such as the scenario, the charcater, the music etc...And sorry but I don't want to change my console every three month because she's outdated. Not everyone want to spend all thier money into video games....

Futhermore, It's a matter of how you use these graphics. You can have beautiful games with the use of 2D and horrible game with the use of 3D. What's the most important is what the graphics make you feel.

And it's the console game industry which make video game so appealing for everyone not the PC industry. With a console, you don't need to buy the next supra powerful omega level S++ 3D card at 45000 euro for just a game. No you just need to buy the game and enjoy it.

Who cares about the technology in video games serioulsy ? The only thing that you should care if you enjoy or not the game, that's all.

And again : Great game != Great graphics/technology. For me, if you think that for havaing a great game you need to have the new technology then, it means that you don't undertand video games.

What do you mean by that ? That SNK is better than SoC (which make no sense at all btw because SNK is not a game)

I disagree with the idea that consoles hinder game development. The real hindrance is the ridiculous race toward better and better graphics, rather than spending development budget and time on making enjoyable and complete games that run out of the box without bugs. I enjoyed games like the Ar Tonelico and Persona series, even though those had pretty basic graphics compared to the FPSs or the Final Fantasies from the same generation.

The rush toward better and better graphics turned me off of PC gaming, since I do not enjoy having to buy a new graphics card (or a new computer, since I use a laptop these days) whenever something new comes out. I am surprised that somebody who is against profits would support industry practices that are all about profit and no innovation.

I'm just saying that titles by a company that made a name for itself ripping off Street Fighter could even really be compared to things like SoC.

2D fighting games, not much originality or imagination there.

SNK made fighting games, sure. But they did classics that are still played and appreciated today, King of Fighters 98, Samurai Shodown 2, The Last Blade 2 or Fatal Fury 4: Mark of the Wolves.

There are people who enjoy making video games. Profit gets in the way though.

Yes, and constantly having new hardware is both a cause and effect of this. Forcing developers to develop for old, limited hardware increases creativity, since they don't have to worry about bumping up the graphics (which is what new consoles or graphics cards are all about). Compare modern games to those on the SNES, and you'll see that developers use good stories and gameplay as well as clever and efficient programming to squeeze masterpieces onto a cartridge that holds less than 5mb. With modern games, you get bugfests, abandoned routes, patch after patch after patch, multi-gigabyte installations, DRM, DLC that should have been in the game in the first place, etc, while the core game outside of graphics is no better than older games.

"Investors like to see what they know will work."

These are words of wisdom :)

They sum up what I think is the problem with the current console market. Game developers are being "forced" to create specific game styles that are widely accepted by the masses. Anything that might be a risky investment is automatically ignored. Take for the example the Captian Tsubasa game I linked a few post above. It is the same with creating more powerful hardware; this is the reason why SNK neogeo went down the drain and why all other game companies like to play it safe.

Remember when blizzard was stomping the game industry with ground breaking games with innovative play styles? Now blizzard made a partnership with activision in order to maximize profits. They are not creating new games, all they are doing now is playing it safe and milking their past glories to the last penny by creating continuations.

Not saying fighting games are bad. Just because it's unoriginal and rehashed doesn't mean it's boring. "Tried-and-true" does go a long way, after all.

But 2D fighters are hardly innovative... the most innovative 2D fighter I've played in years was Scarlet Weather Rhapsody...

If a formula has shown marvelous success, developers choose that route because it's safest and surest. Them losing profit by being daring is more likely then not.

What? You really think Tales of series and Final Fantasy isn't a product of that? xD Teh.

They are just recycling and stagnating the gaming industries with old formulas. I think the most change is the graphics, honestly.

Disregard this since it's probably absurd. xD

I agree with you about the investor comfort statement. I personally don't like the stock market at all since it lets people who have no idea what they're doing have a voice, which is more often bad than good.

Blizzard, though, I may have to disagree. Whether any of their games were "ground-breaking" at all is debatable, and as far as I'm concerned their innovation ended with the release of WoW, not with Activision.

Bioware, on the other hand, is more innovative, no idea how long that lasts with EA owning them now.

Gaming has gone down the drain since the X-Box came out. PS-2 used to have all the best games, and gamecube had quite a few marvelous titles when it first came out (Then preceded to sit there and rot)...

I really blame xbox for this downward spiral of a mess of FPS games. That's all that comes out these days. And while I do like to play things like COD4 MW, it is extremely annoying when that seems to be the only thing out there.

I guess you could also blame the PC gaming industry's recent failures on Blizzard destroying the market with their MMORPG monster known as WOW, but I think it is just an emphasis on the wrong type of games being developed.

And as everyone else has pretty much stated... Investors like to see what they know will work."

Gaming was better off as a niche hobby. Screw the casual gamers. The massive influx of FPS's, the abomination known as the Wii, the PS3's lack of creative games compared to its previous generations, and the XBOX can all be attributed to them ruining current gaming.

This deserves a 10/10 in my books, you just explained everything that ruined what used to be a very enjoying gaming experience for me.

Since the people from WoW do not want to give up all the money they spent on it and the life-time they spent on it as well, no other MMORPG can match it in player-base and that just leaves all the other MMORPG that the other companies make worthless since their is not enough support going around with people hanging on to WoW.

I mostly agree with you, especially about FPS's and the X-box (though I did own a 360 for a while, mostly used it for streaming media then sold it). However I do love my Wii just because of the classic game feature. I don't even touch new games when I have every game from every old school console at my fingertips. Though IMO the best console to date is definitely the Super Nintendo, just so many quality games despite the primitive technology (by today's standards). Interesting that you play DoTa and have most of the same views, something about DoTa might appeal to retro gamers.

It's not that WoW killed other MMORPGs, it's that for a while it was killing all PC gaming, and for two reasons:

1) Blizzard was not making new PC gamers, it was making new WoW gamers. People who would never even buy a discrete GPU if WoW didn't exist. People who bought gaming PCs just to play WoW. I know because I built a bunch of low-end gaming computers for people who wanted to play WoW. I never understood why Blizzard didn't just port it to the 360 like Square-Enix did with FFXI.

2) WoW's anomalous mainstream success caused a huge number of game developers to drop or put promising single-player projects on hold in order to make the next "WoW Killer." None of these mainstream-oriented MMORPGs ever killed WoW. Most of them are gone now. Some have been relegated to free-to-play status (D&D Online anyone?) The only one that really achieved any modicum of mainstream success was Guild Wars, which absolutely did not follow WoW's model.

(Note that this doesn't apply to more niche-oriented MMORPGs such as Eve Online and Final Fantasy XI, both of which are still going strong, albeit with small playerbases).

Fortunately for us, the fad has worn off. The afterglow is starting to fade, especially as WoW's graphics engine continues to look even more ancient. Fortunately for Blizzard, The Old Republic doesn't really wow in terms of visuals, but Final Fantasy XIV's use of the Crystal Tools engine (same engine used in Final Fantasy XIII) stomps all over WoW in terms of graphics.

And of course, it's not true at all.

Firstly, I now it's incredible but there is not only FPS game in XBox 360. There are, for ecxample, many RPG (RoF, ToV, Fable, Alpha Protocol, FF13, So4, etc...). XBox 360 is a great console with great games.

The Wii is of course not an abomination but a great success and one of the most original console ever made. You have alos great and various game in it such as Nintendo's game (Mario, Zelda etc...) and game such as King Story, Rune Factory Frontier, Monster Hunter Tri, Endless Ocean, Dead Space Extinction etc...

Futhermore, we can say this generation is the best in term of creativity thanks to the Wiiware, XLA and PSN.

In conclsuion, what you're saying is totally false. It's a great era for video games and I can't wait for the new DS.

Guild Wars 2 seems to be capable enough of stomping out many WoW Players with the things that I'm currently seeing in it.

The Old Republic MMORPG seems to be only MMORPG that I see that can best WoW in many terms of stature that it is displaying in its trailers, on its website and many things. Blizzard is trying to make its graphics not look ancient anymore and trying to keep players playing after levels 1-10 (since it was the case that many people quit after reaching that level due to boring questing) But I would say its just a desperate attempt for Blizzard to keep WoW going and streaming the money players spend on it.

Hah. maybe.

I did play WoW until the first expansion came out (Burning Crusade), but I became very disasisfied with the game after awhile since of course you have to pay every month for a game that really isn't evolving too much.

I was also very upset with how Blizzard pretty destroyed the lore of WC, which I did enjoy at first...

But at least SC2 seems to be an improvement on SC1, but then again, they aren't making anything new, and the continuations on their franchises are slow as hell (I don't even want to think when Diablo III is coming out).

It's kind of sad when the most innovative thing in production that has come out of Blizzard and its games since WoW first came out is a continually updated custom map (DOTA) from WC3 made by fans and unfortunately DOTA is a dying game.


It's my opinion as that is yours.

I'm not going to even talk about the XBOX... But I must say.

The Wii is a pos that caters to the everyman so you can show your drinking buds a few fun laughs as they swing around your controller at your TV. It does nothing for true lovers of games (Of course my opinion, but this is something I find that I share with most gamers in opinion). Nintendo used to be innovative back in the day until they decided they wanted to exit stage left off the true gamers market sometime in Gamecube's half life.

I will have to disagree, while the 360 and PS3 does have great games most of them are the samey CoD type shooters that have flooded the console gaming industry, then they try to mess with CoD's formula to try and create their own sense of innovation that fails.

JRPGs have fallen in a very stereotypical bunch of cliches told in a different way, while it can be told in a visually stunning and different way most of them fall under the same tropes. WRPGs are now taking BioWare and Bethseda's formula's for success and creating lots of choice RPGs with shooter elements.

However we are only half way through this year and maybe like last years end half we will see new good games but I doubt it.

The only place you can actually see innovation apart from big developers is XBLA.

Wii, I find is that for the most part only the games Nintendo makes themselves are actually good, which are just same versions of their old games dressed up all pretty with a new accessory (motion controls).

But we're not going to stop playing games so that the industry will change its bad habit and the industry isn't going to blow millions away on maybe games so we're stuck in a singularity that until it becomes cheaper to make gmaes we're going to getting dressed up versions of the same games.

I have a good idea for a game where 4 fairytales are retold (Hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood, Jack and the Beanstalk and Pinnochio), in a gritty way with cartoon graphics (similar to Psychonauts). Each with different play styles, Hansel and Gretel is a Bioshock/Alan Wake-esque atmospheric shooter RPG, with a co-op option where the player can play as either Hansel or Gretel in single or have both being controlled in Co-op. It will need teamwork to survive through the forest to get to the candy house and when you do it turns out that the house is a hallucinogen that takes to confront their personal demons, during their slumber the witch is plotting to sell you on the black market as slaves. In this part of the game you go inside the psyches of Hansel and Gretel as they confront their faults and problems, in the shape of bosses, this part you play individually but in co-op you can give items that are no use to you to your partner to help them.

That is just one part of my idea, Little Red Riding Hood would be a action-adventure hack and slash, Jack would be a 2-D Prince of Persia-esque platformer and Pinnochio would be a choice rpg with adventure elements. Would investors risk their cash in an idea like this? Probably not

Again it's not true. You're caricaturing the Wii and I don't like that at all. There are many great games in Wii and there are many old player (like me ) who really like the Wii.

I don't agree and even if it's true, what's the problem if you have enough of other game ?

on a percent it would be 95% that inventors would not cash on the idea, but it is does seem like a good idea :p

As a PC gamer, I am just very picky about my choices, I want my purchase to COUNT. So no, screw you editors, you ain't gonna have a single euro for churning out yet another BROWN FPS, I prefer a good Deus EX, System Shock 2 or a Penumbra (also, I am waiting for Amnesia: the Dark Descent.)

RTS? I have planning skills that would make Stalin cry manly tears and the reaction speed of Slowpoke. I personally prefer a Commandos anyway.

Again, that is your opinion just like my mine. You may not agree, but don't assert your opinion as fact, as I never did myself.

Out of curiosity sake though, which systems have you owned and played?

Played : all since Nes

Owned : Nes, Megadrive, GB color, GB avdance, DS, DS Lite, N64, PS2, Gamecube, Wii, Xbox360. 18 years of gaming.

Apparently memories get covered in gold dust the more time passes

Or have you forgotten every DOOM clone that came out for PC gaming?

Or how the 16bits console era was oversaturated with Street Fighter clones AND platformers.

Don't forget all the wolfenstein ripoffs

I don't think the limitations of consoles are hurting game development. The only hindrance is the players, who are generally pretty bad consumers. It's acceptable for games to cost tons on release, have a couple days' worth of content, and especially on the consoles poor support and archaic multiplayer. It's not even a matter of innovation, refinement is what is lacking in most cases.

...The market has expanded so there's always the group of gamers who let these kinds of mediocre releases go platinum. I'm not talking about Blizzard though. Their games have always been polished, kept people engaged for years and created huge, lasting communities around them. They deserve that popularity because their competitors are lacking that refinement.