Why watch a show you don't like?
 

I have notice this recently (although it might have gone on longer) that popular shows attract what i call the negative viewers. Viewers whose first post of the Episode is all about what they don't like. There is no mention of what they do like, which leaves me wondering if they like any part of the show at all and if not why they keep watching?

I am not talking about poster who have constructive criticism but viewers
1. who already admitted they don't like the character or the plot.
2. who keep looking for plot holes instead of just enjoying the show
3. in a future scifi setting will keep question the science the setting is base on.

I see the same thing as well. I can't comprehend why they watch a show(or read a manga) if you are just going to find what is wrong with it. It is not that most people don't like the show. It is just the ones who don't have more voice than the ones that do.

This thing popped me recently as well. When I think of something like this, maybe the viewers try to find a peculiar show that was originally planned to enjoy and like it, only to end up hating a lot so they have no choice but to continue watching until the end as an excuse to find everything's wrong in-show. There's some that portray them very well, like Seven of SeventhStyle or Flawfinder.

I think there are people that simply enjoy bashing anime series they don't like, so much that they can even go the trouble of watching every single episode of it (albeit they despise it) for that purpose.

Criticism is all right, and I make a lot of that myself, but I don't think I ever reached the point where I would write an essay of "everything that is bad" for every single episode thread, and I've seen people doing that.

Some even take a step further, like that guy that voted "1" to every single episode poll, before even watching them.

I think this often happens with adaptions, especially when someone liked the original a lot.

Hate is the new Love

I often bash the first episodes of thing I dislike, but then I drop it and move on.

My only guess is this behaviour occurs when a particular show is the "in thing", and the poster doesn't want to feel left out, or they just want to "enlighten" others who like a "terribad" show.

There are also those who initially really liked the show, as the show went on found they liked it less and less, but are so far into it that they don't want to drop it. So instead they just hate on it to vent their disappointment.

Or they're just Trolls.

In my case its pure research purposes as well as to keep track of and informed of trends and the like and to help in forging personal standards to which I can refer to if necessary. When it comes to commentary on such shows I tend to keep it limited and just be honest without coming across as a pure troll baiter and thread shitter since despite what some might think its not my intention. Basically I frown on hijacking threads and ruining them for people that do enjoy the shows in the process of pursuing my own goals for posting about shows im not terribly keen on and generally only reply to people that quote my posts while trying to give them the best answer and reasoning for what ive said.

Generally I've found this approach works great for me and that people tend not to mind and get overly defensive since I try not to be offensive except under one very specific set of circumstances where people will seemingly avoid conversation and report my posts and get veru upset at any individual criticism when a simple attempt to engage me in civil discourse or just let it be would result in no problems for anyone whatsoever since I'm not one too get offended when people ask me to justify myself further by any means. In fact I see it as an obligation to respond to any inquiry I receive to the best of my ability and in many cases its the only reason i bother to make more than a single passing opinion post on a show I'm not keen on. Needless to say I no longer bother to post under that specific circumstance anymore cause its not worth the hassle or zero tolerance approach to honest criticism I tend to receive. Id rather post where my thoughts and opinions are appreciated for what they are rather than how they lean, which fortunately is the majority of this forums threads.

1. Some people really enjoy bashing shows and want more ammo to do so with. It's like all the people that read Twilight so they could criticize it better. I'm going to guess most of the people you are thinking of fall into this category.
2. Some of us are huge fans of original works. We have to watch the adaptation, clinging to the tiny fragments of hope that it will suddenly get awesome near the end.
3. Watching bad things could possibly help improve your own writing skills, so maybe some prospective writers on this board are doing that.


Some people have no clue how to suspend their reality in favor of the show's. The fact that the setting is not grounded in reality doesn't preclude a good story with solid characters though.

This doesn't happen to fantasy as much since the show fully acknowledges itself as separate from our reality, while a lot of sci-fantasy tries to be "realistic."

Also, along with the poor physicists trying to enjoy their scifi anime without cringing too often, there are always trolls that want to sound smart.

Well... you are one of those guys Kaioshin.
So basically your answer is:

"research purposes"
"Keep informed on series" (the most popular ones?)
"forging personal standard" (do you need to go through 20 or more episodes?)

Can you clarify if there are cases where you kept watching a series that you really didn't like at all, or if, in spite of your criticism, you still enjoyed them a bit?

Well when you're a blogger or reviewer as I am, there is a certain need to go outside your comfort zone willingly and try things you might not necessarily enjoy.

Ultimately though I will not keep up with a series if it actually bores me to death. Boring is the worst kind of bad. Generally if I follow something to the end, it had enough qualities to be somewhat entertaining in some way. I don't tend to be the kind of person to derive enjoyment out of simply watching something terrible (So bad its good).

Yeah sometimes I have nothing good to say about a work, and I'll keep up with it regardless, but this is just my behavior when I post on forums. Generally the series I like the most I don't tend to post at all really. Shinsekai Yori and Psycho Pass I really love this season but I don't believe I contributed a single post to their threads once they started airing. That's just my quirk, though it seems that I mislead people into believing I don't enjoy anything, when in reality I probably enjoy more anime titles per season that most people (I'm following like 14-15 ongoing series right now, and genuinely like 12-13 of them).

I would summarize my reasons as follows:

1. A series I keep up with to the VERY end isn't totally devoid of enjoyable factors
2. Blogger/Reviewer activities require a balanced load of titles to write about
3. A bad series is better than just being bored sometimes
4. Conversational/reference material
5. I am the boogy man

I usually drop a show if I really dislike it. However sometimes I give it a few episodes before doing so.

There are also the shows as DonQuigleone states that I might have liked at first but I started liking less and less after awhile. Depending on how long the series is I usually will finish something if I got so far already....even if I start to dislike it (although there are times I dropped a series with only a few episodes to go out of frustration. It all depends).


Another thing though I have to say I hate when people say you can't have an opinion unless you finish something. I think this is kind of an unfair response. Honestly I have never come across a series that went from bad to great. I have come across series that started out sort of mediocre that turned into something special, but I can't think of any series that I thought were outright terrible turn into something wonderful.

I think usually when someone highly dislikes something, they have a good reason. And they don't need to watch the whole series to realize their opinion is justified (obviously that doesn't mean I am going to have an opinion on the ending of the series).

At the same time when I do criticize a series I try to do this outside of places where fans gather because I think it is rude to ruin their enjoyment. Of course this is after I already dropped the series. If I haven't dropped the series then at least I am going to post my reactions on episode threads whether it is a positive or negative opinion.

I'm of the same mind with Reckoner. Because I am quite involved in some stuff that requires as much anime knowledge as possible, sometimes I don't want to get lost in a discussion simply because I dropped a popular anime after an episode. However, I don't go around saying I hate the anime on every episode thread--there's more productive things I can do with my time.

And that's where the difference lies. I don't find joy in picking apart an anime whenever I can. I don't need to find people to disagree with so I can force my views across. If I review an anime and it's bad, that's a one time thing. But more often than not, I enjoy talking about things I do like instead of things I don't like. I don't know much about Kaioshin, but from what he said in this thread, I agree that I also frown upon hijacking threads just to ruin it for people who like the anime.

Now the popularity-hate sentiment is quite understandable, if unfair. If everyone talks about an anime you only find so-so, then you will sometimes get annoyed and find the negative parts to counter everyone else's praise. And if you haven't watched said popular anime, then your expectations are sky high, which means even an above average anime would affect you negatively because of all the hype. So I believe some people only post negative things because they are truly confused why a hyped anime is so well liked. But I guess some will post negative things because it gives them pleasure or something...people are different I guess.

___

As an aside, the opposite thing also happens. I once reviewed an anime that I liked, offering it good points and bad points and ends up giving it a 7/10. I got hit by a shitstorm of people who asked why I didn't give it a "perfect" and not realizing that 7/10 is actually a positive score. There are both sides to everything.

Sometimes an anime can start out as crap and then suddenly become awesome half way through.

The best example of this is Mai-Hime. I followed this show from episode 1 and that the first half of the series was so painfully mediocre that I almost stopped watching it.

Then the WHAM! episode came and **** got real. I LOVED the second half.

There are lots of examples of anime like this.

I think there's something to be said for this. It seems like there's a tendency in reviewing, professional game reviews in particular I've noticed, to rate things on a 7-10 scale, with consumers seeing any number below 8 as just not worth their investment. This also happens a lot with shows people that have ardent fans; any slight against the show is interpreted as "I don't like this show and it's bad", when really all you're doing is trying to point out that you don't think the show is perfect. On the flip-side, when a show gets super-popular, and people are constantly exposed to it whether they like it or not, there tends to be a bitter backlash from people who feel that they have to exaggerate their dislike of it to almost hyperbolic levels just to make a statement. (E.g. Sword Art Online.) I'm sure that gets under some people's skin, and I'm sure some people really do keep watching a show just to perpetually point out its (perceived) flaws. That's just the result of being in the spotlight, unfortunately.

The internet in general tends to foster this impulse to talk about what you hate a lot, not just in the anime circles. Try talking about any movie or series with vampires in it and see how long it takes for someone to mention how Twilight ruined them. Try listening to Iron Maiden or (insert older band you like here) on Youtube and see how many of the comments are about how Justin Bieber is fruity and lame.

Yes, I get it, many things suck. Now please, stop bringing them up every five minutes. I'm trying to enjoy the good stuff and you're cramping my style.

Or sometimes the first impression was a mistake.
From this to this

I admit, I have been like this on the Muv-Luv and Psycho-Pass threads. I'm the sort of anime viewer who despises the need of the storyteller to present a plot that reeks of despair (the same reason why I did not watch Puella Magi Madoka Magica, but at least I liked Ume Aoki's character designs.) But at least, I never stay in the threads like a festering disease. :heh:

Hidan no Aria is a different story. I have to wonder why such a plot whose plot direction is comparable to Bleach's is still selling a lot. The anime series is also the only series wherein I was so disappointed that it turned me into a genuine hater.

It's a test to the fanbase, actually. The response often "spices things up"... until moderator intervention is needed. ;)

Spot on ;)

Well I don't think anyone should give someone a hard time for their personal score of a series.

But different scores can mean different things to people. For me a 7 would be something I enjoyed but its heavily flawed too. If I was to give a letter grade it would be a C. I don't regret watching it but I probably wouldn't buy it either.

I simply drop shows I'm not enjoying. What I watch is dictated by my enjoyment, and unfortunately, I don't have unlimited time for watching everything a season has to offer. With that in mind, I only recommend stuff that I enjoy, and so, usually have very little to say about series that do not suit my interests.

With that in mind, popular series usually have a reason for being popular. Granted, there will be flaws (e.g. weaker storyline, unlikable characters, poor animation) in almost anything, but the more popular series do something right that appeal to people. For instance, I see a lot of criticism directed at K-On! fans for being individuals who do not appreciate complexity (to raise an example), but from a personal perspective, there is nothing inherently wrong with K-On! in itself. K-On! is merely a presentation of high school life from a particular perspective and it does that sufficiently well.

Personal discussion aside, the response to the original question, that some people watch everything to gain a fuller understanding of all the shows offered, is a succinct account for it. I heard somewhere that these individuals watch these shows and discuss them in reasonable detail so everyone else is spared the trouble of watching some shows ;)

Sometimes you are hoping for a "it will get better later" kind of experience. I am sure some people would have dropped Madoka, Steins;Gate or Clannad if they trusted the first few episodes.
Even Little Busters may full under a show that starts weak, slow but will get better later.

If I only stuck to shows I knew I would like, I'd be missing out on so many and my favorite character list would be half as big. You can't tell some shows are bad at the start or they will stay bad.

Take Yu Yu Hakusho. Almost nobody talks about the first dozen or so episodes because while they're not bad, aren't anything special and sometimes boring. But it gets pretty damned epic a few dozen episodes in.

There's much to be said about Clannad, Kanon, and Nanoha, since I didn't like their first parts at all either, but I would have been a very different anime viewer if I didn't, most likely for the worse. :p

I can also keep watching a less than par series if there's something worth watching for in spite of the rest. For example, I think that series like Hana Saku Iroha and Oreimo are incredibly mediocre, if not badly written, series but the likes of Ohana and Kuroneko allow me to bypass such things and enjoy myself while I'm not facepalming at whatever stupid shit the show pulls when they're not on screen. ;)

Finally, there's also shows that provide eye candy and nothing else. This usually applies to mediocre series with fanservice and a good budget.

Also, it's funny to hate sometimes just like the many people that like riffing out there. Watching bad anime once in a while also helps you appreciate good anime. Just don't overdo it because you might become a bitter douchebag, and nobody likes them.

I go by my 7-episode rule. No matter the length, if it doesn't hold me by the seventh episode, that's when I'll walk away. Since I usually don't watch really long series, I think it's a fair number.

Aside from that, if I'm writing a review for my blog I go through every episode for my favourite moments, and these are even for series I wasn't 100% sold on.

Most series aren't 100% throwaway, and I can usually find something I like from them. It's why when a series is able to completely unimpress me, I feel even worse off.

By the way, the seven episode rule spawned in K-ON, where I was somewhat bored with the first 6 episodes and all of it changed when that seventh episode hit.

I only hate the shows which I saw, which 90% of them are not in my MAL account. Best example for me would be Ouran High School Host Club which I dropped twice. No other characters who offended me than Haruhi that bad.

As for School Days I only hated it after I completed it. At least it gave me an important lesson "if you see it coming, why stand on its way?".

Any yaoi and fujioshi fanservice shows are easy to avoid and so I don't have to talk about it(just like fujioshi towards moe and ecchi shows).

You're more tolerant than I am: I go by the three-episode rule. If something doesn't sit well with me in three episodes, I ragequit stop watching it. I also find that I'm less likely to drop something if I can watch most of the episodes in a reasonably short period of time, simply because I can move to the next very rapidly.

From the three-episode rule, I would have dropped K-On! almost immediately, and in fact, that's why I didn't watch it when it first came out in 2009: having watched one episode, I originally felt that my interests did not lie there. It wasn't until I heard some of the music that I changed my mind. I have no regrets :)

Three's a safe number, so I used to do the same. However, at the time of K-ON's release, I planned to drop it at 3 and someone basically enforced me to keep watching, at least to 7. Ever since, I raised it to seven and realized that would be more than enough for any series to have a chance.

I do agree that the three episode rule will maximize priorities and make everything more efficient, but I also don't wish to miss any potentially good series in that manner.

I only do the three episode rule because I'm usually busy :p With that in mind, there are some cases where I've gone back and picked up a show I previously dropped to give it a second shot, and other times where I felt a show to be favourable after completing it, only for my opinions to change later. There's no right or wrong way of enjoying media: at the end of the day, through watching things, I'm left with a better understanding of what tickles my fancy, and what doesn't.

I must be the "Almost Nobody" because I love those early episodes of Yu Yu Hakusho. Honestly I kind of liked those episodes more than the tournament/fighting aspect of the series.

But then I liked the 4 main characters and their interactions and that came later.

Sometimes I will watch a series I did not like initially to give it "another try". A recent couple of examples of this are Ryo-kyo-bu!, Oda Nobuna and Sankarea (still seeing if I can finish this one).

The first two are not that bad - I dropped them because they did not catch my interest at the time and I had other series I wanted to watch. Sankarea has been praised by some posters whose opinions I respect, and while I heartily dislike anything to do with flesh-eating zombies I am giving it a try. I have read a fair number of manga chs. available up to now and had mixed feelings about it....

I don't get people who do this either. I'm not a masochist. I'm a sadist. :p

I never do this by choice. Or normally, if I really hate it, I'll turn it off. Sometimes it takes a while for the hate to set in after I've seen it though.

Chalk up this second "Almost Nobody". :D

Personally, the only time I'd watch a show that I truly loathe, and follow it right to the bitter end, is if it's a sequel to a show I did like, and liked alot. Since I'm already emotionally invested in this fictional universe and/or its characters, I feel compelled to watch it to the end.


Now, as for why a fair number of of people do this, I think that some people just love scathing reviews in general (both reading them and writing them). Simon Cowell, Zero Punctuation Reviews, the Angry Video Game Nerd, the Nostalgia Critic, etc... are all clear examples of how a lot of people just love scathing reviews.

And it kind of makes sense when you think about it. People probably love them for much the same reason why people just can't look away from a trainwreck. :heh:

I have to admit that some scathing reviews are very entertaining to me, just in how colorful and comically effective they are.

I think some bloggers (including some anime bloggers) gain a following largely due to their scathing reviews. Of course, the price of such popularity is that to "please your audience" you have to watch shows you genuinely consider crap so you have material for your comedic scathing review. :heh:

I have a hard time clarifying that statement further but admittedly it's not something most people would do so maybe it's necessary. Let met try to think of somet way to explain it better. By research purposes I essentially mean being aware of trends and popular opinions. What people like, what they are saying about stuff, how it contrasts with my own views, it's all the sort of thing that interests me as a SocSci student. Basically I like to understand what makes people tick, especially people whose views on things differ wildly from mine. If I look at a show from a different perspective how does it fare compared to my own perspective? These are the questions I like to look for answers too even if I'm not convinced I'm going to find them if I can learn a little bit about others in the process I consider it worth while to drop a post in a thread for a show I'm not too keen on. I think that deals with the first two questions.

Forging personal standards basically means if I can hammer out the things I don't like to see via experiencing them for myself I can better predict if a show is to my tastes or not. Looking for signs, cues and other clues in a series that has already proven to my distaste I can be better equipped to avoid getting tricked into watching a series that won't end up being worth my while in this era of strange genre fusions where even my favorite once surefire good times like mecha series may no longer be what I think it's going to be. Basically this ultimately boils down yet again to a matter of research.

An example of a series I kept watching that I really didn't like at all? Guilty Crown and almost any sci-fi series by Bones in the last few years (Eureka Seven Ao, Star Driver, No. 6) come to mind immediately. Shows I've enjoyed somewhat in spite of frequent criticism for them are almost too many to count, but from this year two examples that spring to mind are Gundam AGE and Total Eclipse. Both have some pretty significant issues with their production, but not enough to completely destroy the enjoyment I get out of watching them. Essentially these are shows wehre the good overwhelms the bad for me, more often than not, though not always.

Good point. It's important to remember that these "reviewers" are simply characters. AVGN likes video games, NC likes movies, etc., and it works the same way as Gordon Ramsey's character is just a stage persona. You watch live cooking videos of him, and he's a really fun-loving and nice family man. As such, it's important to separate these reviewers from the "to-the-point" and "strictly business" reviewers. To be honest, I don't trust reviewers at all with what I will and won't like anyways, since preferences are a subjective matter.

When I blog, I try and do so as honestly as possible. Since there's very little I can actually find 100% boring, majority of my posts are just happy in general. I'm not an angry person, so characterizing myself as such would make things quite bad. I think you just need to watch what you like, and share your honest opinions if you wish to. Doesn't mean you can't have some fun doing it though. :p

And that is why I never say "Nobody" :p

Anyhow, the point I'm making is that if I had condemned the show just because I didn't like the first dozen episodes then I would have never watched a great show. And a dozen episodes is a lot these days, considering it can be an entire series.

Patience is often rewarded.

Such saint-like patience. That's more than half of your average show. I usually give them two episodes, then I might pick it up again if I hear a lot of positive buzz about later events. Exceptions are made if I think the show has a lot of latent potential.

Agreed! That's what I like so much about anime in general, there's usually a silver lining somewhere. Great voicework, nice visuals, opening/ending and a few characters you like can get you through a one-cour series even if the main course isn't stellar. I'm equally distraught when I find something I genuinely dislike across the board, especially if I foolishly end up finishing it. I try not to take that out on the forum too much though. :heh:

I rarely willing to watch a show that I don’t enjoy simply because my time is too precious for that. Usually, if a show piques my interest, I give it a shot depending on the number of its entire episodes (3 for 12 eps, 5 for 24/25/26 eps, and 10 for 50 eps). In the case of “super” series like Dragon Ball Z, Naruto, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Bleach, etc, I just read the manga and usually try the first season of the anime and continue on from there as long as it keeps me interested (by also skipping fillers). Otherwise, I’ll just watch it occasionally.

There are exceptions which depends on the situation. For example, when I was in college, my friend gave me a collection of anime titles. Some of them I found boring after trying a few episodes. Still, when I had nothing better to do at the dorm, I watched them just for the sake of it (usually, curiosity became the main drive). That’s basically how I finish some anime series that I don’t like such as DearS, Macross Frontier, Akane-Iro ni Somaru Saka, Tsukihime, Shining Tears x Wind, etc.

I also want to add that, sometimes, fans of a big franchise (like Gundams & Macross) feel obligated to watch whatever show spawned by the said franchise. For example, as a fan of Gundam & Saint Seiya (not mentioning other franchises that I follow) I feel obligated to watch and finish even the terribad outings like Gundam AGE, Gundam SEED Destiny, Saint Seiya Hades Inferno and Elysium just to know what the company was doing to my beloved franchise. It can be tormenting, but I think that's what it means to be a fan ;).

Off the top of my head, I can only think of a few shows that I've completely dropped for good- Madlax and the final season of Nanoha (A's was excellent, but StrikerS... I couldn't take it anymore, for various reasons), along with Tokyo Magnitude 11.0 (or whatever it was). There's several shows that are on extremely long hiatus, and Madlax could technically qualify there. But anyways, I usually have certain criteria for what shows I will watch (so they usually end up being from the same genre :heh: ), and will only watch other shows that I hear extremely good things about.

However, at least half the time I usually end up watching shows that are "meh"- not particularly to my interest, but not superbad either. These shows I usually end up sticking with because they've got just one or two elements that keep me watching. A good example of this is Mouretsu Pirates- although I can't really say it was bad, I had to push myself through it due to a certain element that was semi-present but... well, the space battles were good, and I loved the crew of the Bentenmaru (the high school girls, OTOH...). Not to mention that since this is the main forum I visit on the net, I try to at least watch one show that's under the Currently Airing section, and this was a show that was under that heading at the time (however, I am currently not watching any show under that heading)

A lot of the time, if I'm watching a show that I don't currently like, it's because I used to like it, and I'm hoping that it will recapture what it used to have. It's also somewhat common for me to be hoping that it will get better... though the latter requires a strong endorsement from someone whose opinion I trust to even give it that much.

Then there is the rare case of shows like Future Diary. The trainwreck was so glorious that I couldn't look away, even if the plot was all over the place, the characters were constantly making the worst possible choices, and I periodically cringed because what was going on was so mind-bogglingly stupid... The trainwreck was too glorious for me to look away.

If it's really popular stuff... I'll try to finish it even though I don't find a show that good. It helps for future conversation when these popular animes are brought into the topic...

Although... that doesn't mean I won't drop it if it really bores me to no end and I can't really see any redemption to it... I dropped Railgun and pretty much didn't bother with the 2nd season of Index after trudging through the first season lol. Did the same thing for K-On. :P

7 episode rule is quite a lot. In the case of a 26 or more episode series I guess it's okay, but when it's 13 or even less, I think that at that point you might as well just watch it to the end.

Many people here mentioned those anime who have a bad or mediocre start and then become awesome. But usually in those cases you just need to ask the general opinion. They'll generally tell you when you should wait a few episodes before judging an anime and when if you didn't like the first you might as well drop it because it won't get any better.

I can't count the times where someone said "watch until the third episode of Madoka", for example.

Though I guess this doesn't work if you are the kind of person that absolutely wants to watch a good shows at the same time as everyone else.

I am practically the opposite, I have a bit of a problem wasting my time with worthless anime, so the only times when I watch anime at the same time they are released is when I know already what they are about and\or I'm moderately sure I'm going to enjoy them (because I know the authors, because the plot is something that particular interests me, or simply because the chara design is so appealing that that alone is worth going though a pointless plot).

For the rest I just wait until I see there's enough people that particularly like it.
And in those case, even if I end up hating it, I won't be able to write anything more than a single post of criticism.

No see, but that's the point- I do come back to finish most of the time. Stuff like Kill Me Baby and PapaKiki I had dropped for the time being, but later on I came back to finish up the last few episodes.

For me, three's a little bit too short. Seven's admittedly long, but a middle ground still misses things for me.:heh: