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-   -   Fate/Zero - Episode 3 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=107629)

Yuna Amakura 2011-10-15 17:59

^You talk as if Kajiura hasn't done the same thing with the very same ufotable (since KnK consisted mostly of people talking in a rather slow paced movie lol).

Blue-kun 2011-10-15 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Klashkari
I can see why Ufotable is balancing out their budget here and there, but I wonder if they couldn't do it in a better fashion: frankly, the discussion between Tokiomi and Gilgamesh was nearly nothing close to "composition", or subtle direction. Meanwhile, am I the only one who was a bit taken aback by the CGI cars? I don't have any problem with CGI usually (such like mecha in guilty crown), but these ones were really out of place.
Of course, it isn't anything major whatsoever, but I think other "cutting" methods would have been possible, without breaking huge numbers for the animation.

I am far from being someone who's studied direction or anything of the sort, but I didn't really find that scene to be poorly done. Way I got it, they just seemed to pick an open angle where they could show both Toshaka and Tokiomi, and actually contrast Gil's "don't care" attitude with how respectful Tokiomi acted towards the person who, supposedly, is his servant. Same goes on as for when Gil suddenly decides to turn his back on Tokiomi and not even face him while he's speaking, which is another sign of his arrogant personality.

I really can't see how they'd do this in any other way. Maybe one can argue that they kept the same wide angle distance shot for a bit too much, but it seemed to be a conscious decision and not a way to save money, since they could easily have recycled the close-up frames they already had for both Tokiomi and Gil.

As for the CG cars, well, I don't particularly fancy them either, but it's not something very uncommon in anime these days. And at the very least they actually had the decendy to include well done shadows in the cuts where the car stopped below a tree.

On the actual episode, though, I really enjoyed it. Slow, but it still had enough to keep me entertained. The Iskandar and Waver duo easily steal the spotlight, and I had a good laugh at Rider's crazy delusions about buying top of the line aircrafts and raiding countries to raise the funds necessary in order to do so. His completely unpredictable personality contrasts rather okay with Waver, who's very timid, so gets taken aback really easily with Iskandar's constant change of topics. In one second he's talking about Clinton, the next he's bullying poor Waver for information on the enemy's servant, despite looking as if he simply didn't care for a good while. :heh:

The cliffhanger was pretty good, too. That track was definitely not very Kajiura-like, but it does seem that, whenever she works with ufotable, it brings out something different within her. Kara no Kyoukai score felt very Kajiura-ish at times, but we had some stuff that was definitely unlike her, like that one LONG track used in Paradox Spiral. It also pleases me that so far I really haven't noticed tracks being repeated, and they've been used really well. I find Kajiura always suffered with this in her old Beetrain outings, but so far in Fate/Zero, while there's a lot of parts where there is no music, they're certainly aiming to actually use pieces at the right moment. Thumbs up for it.

All in all, it was a nice episode, and I'm curious to see how the fight will play out next week. It seemed as if Rider also took notice of Lancer and Saber, so I have to wonder if he'll join the fray? A three-way battle would certainly be entertaining.

Klashikari 2011-10-15 19:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue-kun (Post 3809241)
I am far from being someone who's studied direction or anything of the sort, but I didn't really find that scene to be poorly done. Way I got it, they just seemed to pick an open angle where they could show both Toshaka and Tokiomi, and actually contrast Gil's "don't care" attitude with how respectful Tokiomi acted towards the person who, supposedly, is his servant. Same goes on as for when Gil suddenly decides to turn his back on Tokiomi and not even face him while he's speaking, which is another sign of his arrogant personality.

I really can't see how they'd do this in any other way. Maybe one can argue that they kept the same wide angle distance shot for a bit too much, but it seemed to be a conscious decision and not a way to save money, since they could easily have recycled the close-up frames they already had for both Tokiomi and Gil.

I'm not talking about the angle and how both Tokiomi and Gil were standing up, but how -persistant- the far pan camera was. It is usually not so problematic when used here and there, but in this very scene, its duration was almost as long as in ep1, with absolutely no animation, not even lips movements (slightly more than 30 sec that we see Tokiomi bowing like a statue while gil indulging himself against the wall, seen from the inside). I think having a close-up would emphasis how Tokiomi is bowing his head at that give moment while Gil couldn't care less about him... some alternative sight, like... for example, a close up on the wine glass, with Tokiomi's reflection on it for few seconds of his speech.

Simply speaking, the wide pan was carefully detailed, showing Tokiomi's study, but way too long to be considered as just a quick snap of its mansion. Instead, it really cut short the actual details of the characters here.
At least, it isn't as abused as in Episode 1.

Vicious108 2011-10-15 19:09

I was expecting it to be a much more action oriented one, but it was a very well done episode regardless. When the character interactions and dialogue are that good, a lack of action sequences doesn't detract at all from the overall quality.

Lol @ Tokiomi and Gilgamesh's relationship. It's like the Master and Servant roles were completely reversed.

As expected, Assassin(s) is still far from done. The fact that the cast announcement listed more than one voice actor for him had kinda spoiled that for me already, but it was still a cool twist. I really like how Kiritsugu and Kotomine once again mirror each other in their shrewd and underhanded tactics. The former's seemingly using his Servant and even his own wife as decoys, while the latter sends one of his loyal subordinates to his death unbeknownst to him in order to try and fool every other Master into believing he's out of the picture. Can't wait till those two come face to face, should be an awesome rivalry.

As for the finale... Saber vs Lancer should be good, and I like how it mirrors the beginning of the F/SN war, but obviously Rider vs Clinton is the match everyone really wants to see~

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzmagic (Post 3809170)
Well I didn't know the Church would actually be willing to cheat to make it happen.

This is anime. There is no way the Church isn't going to be corrupt in one way or another.

Reckoner 2011-10-15 19:11

Line of the episode was definitely "Our biggest obstacle will be this Clinton guy." :heh:

Anyways lots of character exposition this episode. As a Fate/Stay Night fanboy I don't mind, but I suppose certain people might be getting tired if some more action doesn't start happening soon, but it seems that's just what we're about to get next episode.

If people were a little confused why Tokiomi basically is literally enslaved to Gil it's because Gilgamesh doesn't have to fear killing him and disappearing due to his Archer class status. He's able to survive days without mana from a master, so he could just find a new master if needed.

I also did not like that long still frame of the conversation so I perfectly understand Klash's concerns there. On the other hand I wasn't that nitpicky about the cars.

fertygo 2011-10-15 19:18

Its amazing the episode that full of people talking can be this captivating.

@Klashikari
I have no problem with that shot, at least they use it only one time this time.
And I appreciate there is much more movement even in regular shot this time.

Klashikari 2011-10-15 19:22

It is definitely an improvement compared to ep1, and arguably less abused.
Knowing the events going on, I can see why they do that, I'm just concerned they might just piling up this kind of occurences "a bit too much", that's the gist of it.

Thankfully, the stills aren't an eyesore visually speaking, unlike many other series being plagued by such treatment, ad nauseam.

Xakanis 2011-10-15 19:24

Anyone else loving it when anime cliches get shirked? I'm talking about that scene with Kiritsugu and his assistant.

Kuroi Hadou 2011-10-15 19:24

My only disappointment with this episode is it didn't end with Saber and Lancer charging each other.

totoum 2011-10-15 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yuna Amakura (Post 3809196)
^You talk as if Kajiura hasn't done the same thing with the very same ufotable (since KnK consisted mostly of people talking in a rather slow paced movie lol).

Haha,true,guess I'm only taking notice now. :heh:

If there's anything "movie like" about fate zero so far it's those wide shots,on a 360p screen it's a bit annoying because the characters are all tiny but on a movie screen I'm sure they'd appear big enough and you could enjoy those great backrounds a lot more.

ars89 2011-10-15 19:31

So how did Kotomine summon more than one servant? Lol at the army of assassins though. Alexander is funny, easy to like him. Poor Iri hasn't been outside and can't even spend it with Emiya. Lancer looks cool, has it been told who he really is? Can't wait to see a real fight now.

kk2extreme 2011-10-15 19:31

I want less talking, more actions :(

fertygo 2011-10-15 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by ars89 (Post 3809280)
So how did Kotomine summon more than one servant? Lol at the army of assassins though. Alexander is funny, easy to like him. Poor Iri hasn't been outside and can't even spend it with Emiya. Lancer looks cool, has it been told who he really is? Can't wait to see a real fight now.

Because they're all Assasin, they all share the identity. Blame that arabic guy have such a convenience nicks. :p (I'm just saying this awhile someone make more proper explanation)

Revolutionist 2011-10-15 20:06

Great episode.

I loved how Rider is more interested in getting his hands on B-2's and tomahawks to take on Clinton than actually fighting in the holy grail war. Btw, shouldn't he already know about that stuff? According to Saber in this episode Servants acquire knowledge of the world they're summoned to.

Jean Claymore 2011-10-15 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by fertygo (Post 3809292)
Because they're all Assasin, they all share the identity. Blame that arabic guy have such a convenience nicks. :p (I'm just saying this awhile someone make more proper explanation)

*raises hand* Not really sure if the anime will develop more decent information afterwards, but as far as I remember, he has like 10+ personalities being only one entity dividing himself into an Assasin army he had gathered in the past.

Em... my schedule didn't work up today, so I couldn't watch the ep until now but (it might be a spoiler though) as I recall the female Assasin explaining losing one of them (certainly the one killed by Gilgamesh) felt as if they lost a finger or so so we can make assumptions once they lose one of their "entities" they can't normally keep their maintenance. Anyways, you can always look up the wiki for more details but in overall sense, that "arabic guy" had his fellow assasins with the same name of Hassan-i-Sabbah.

fertygo 2011-10-15 20:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revolutionist (Post 3809314)
Great episode.

I loved how Rider is more interested in getting his hands on B-2's and tomahawks to take on Clinton than actually fighting in the holy grail war. Btw, shouldn't he already know about that stuff? According to Saber in this episode Servants acquire knowledge of the world they're summoned to.

Like someone say before, its just different when you really see the stuff than just knowing it.
Its the same response that Gil have about how he excited in this current era.

Jerseykid 2011-10-15 20:22

I just like hearing Aizen's voice again

serenade_beta 2011-10-15 20:33

Last Week: Wow, Assassin sure is weak...
This Week: Wow, Assassin sure is amazing!

Since Assassin should be one servant and there are so many, I guess "Assassin" is one and split into a whole bunch of sub-Assassins? :heh:
Which means the real Assassin must have spent an entire night thinking about the designs of his clones... I mean, look at them, every one is different. Sure must have been hard for the guy to come up with all of them!

Weber... :heh:
His voice actor really is good at acting. (^^)b

Clinton...?!
Makes you feel how much time has passed...

Some lover of Shiro's dad apparently is named "Maiya".
But whenever he calls her name, I hear "Maa, Iiya"... :heh::heh:

DragoZERO 2011-10-15 20:34

Ahhhh... What a perfect and yet horrible cliffhanger. Fantastic episode. The animation and design is awesome. How Gil vanished and Sabers sword was so sweet. And the explanations for the servant classes are great. Kirei and Tokiomi have a cunning plan too. I also like the use of familiars, Urobuchi really uses the Nasuverse to its fullest.

Post replies to follow.

Yuna Amakura 2011-10-15 20:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue-kun (Post 3809241)
That track was definitely not very Kajiura-like, but it does seem that, whenever she works with ufotable, it brings out something different within her. Kara no Kyoukai score felt very Kajiura-ish at times, but we had some stuff that was definitely unlike her, like that one LONG track used in Paradox Spiral. It also pleases me that so far I really haven't noticed tracks being repeated, and they've been used really well. I find Kajiura always suffered with this in her old Beetrain outings, but so far in Fate/Zero, while there's a lot of parts where there is no music, they're certainly aiming to actually use pieces at the right moment. Thumbs up for it.

Nah, there's been repetition already. There's the song that I will call for now "Rider's theme", the one from the beginning of episode 2, that was repeated in this one. I think a SFX track was also repeated, but that's okay. I'm personally glad they're, for the time being at least, not spamming a single song in each and every episode (people sure liked it, but I was sure pissed with Sis Puella Magica's usage). I agree on the part about the actual use of the songs. I personally think that Kara no Kyoukai was THE series that really used every single in the right place and time, and I'm truly glad that F/Z is following the same steps.


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