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-   -   Byakugan, Sharingan & Rinnengan (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=606)

OtseisRagnarok 2008-10-23 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Uzumaki (Post 2007521)
i like byakugan more, the hyuga clan may have social family flaws. butthey seem like nice eople than uchiha

Well, saying they're nicer people than the uchiha isn't saying much, is it? It's like claiming to be nicer than the Manson family...... As true as it is, it doesn't mean much....
As for the sharingan looking cooler? Hell yeah! But I don't know about Mangekyo... Everyone's is different, right?

aliasxn 2008-10-23 16:44

Quote:

Not really.
Well... really. One of the main advantages of byakugan is that it can see through everything from all angles, right? But when we stop to think about it, nobody seems to have any problems dodging kunais shot from their backs, or telling when someone is trying to sneak up on them. At all. Orochimaru was able to tell that Naruto, Sakura and Sai were hiding behind the bushes far away from where he was, and that Sai was hiding underground later on. We've seen it a thousand times.

Plus, sharingan got extra stupid on shippuden, it's no even a debate anymore.

holypanl 2008-10-23 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja (Post 2007106)
Not really.

Actually yes, really.

How many times ahs someone who hasn't got a byakugan not caught some projectile from behind them in their 'blind spot' and all that?

Those without the byakugan juust hone their sixth senses.

That Other Ninja 2008-10-23 21:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by holypanl (Post 2008568)
Actually yes, really.

How many times ahs someone who hasn't got a byakugan not caught some projectile from behind them in their 'blind spot' and all that?

Those without the byakugan juust hone their sixth senses.

That isn't only what byakugan is for and even a user who has it doesn't need byakugan to do that so no, not really.

Josh Uzumaki 2008-10-24 07:55

byakugan is going to make everyone shake, it will show its true power soon, i mean why have two super powered eyes (sharigan and rinnegan) and leave byakugan looking like ten ten(reallly shit) its just not fair considering it is a kekki genkai

holypanl 2008-10-24 12:46

Because I KNOW you're going to reply and try to argue, I'll just give the whole history of this argument and get it over with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aliasxn (Post 2006227)

Besides, everybody in this damn manga already seems to have a 1km 360 vision, so not only did Kishimoto make sharingan stupidly strong, but he also also made byakugan kinda pointless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja (Post 2007106)
Not really.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holypanl (Post 2008568)
Actually yes, really.

How many times ahs someone who hasn't got a byakugan not caught some projectile from behind them in their 'blind spot' and all that?

Those without the byakugan juust hone their sixth senses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja (Post 2008914)
That isn't only what byakugan is for and even a user who has it doesn't need byakugan to do that so no, not really.

By following through here, we can see that the boldened and underlined text in the last quote is actually a self-destroying argument, which goes on to prove my post instead of countering it.

The whole point behind th argument which YOU raised is that the Byakugan's 360 deg vision is NOT useless. The point was raised that it IS, since practically any competent ninja's sixth sense helps him avoid/dodge/counter attacks from behind, anyway.

And after all that arguing, I don't even need to form an argument to finish it off, seeing as you so beautifully put my point forward anyway.

Killer Bee 2008-10-24 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by whittyman66 (Post 2007786)
come on byukugan does not even have 360 degree vision, there is a blind spot if anyone remembers. and the byukugan cannot see through genjutsu, they are masters of taijutsu, the sharingan is the master of genjutsu. plus the sharingan looks way cooler.

Well, I think Might Guy is master of taijutsu.

Hyuuga are masters of chakra as physical weapons. Hell, their spinning jutsu isn't much different that rasengan. They both leave a huge crater once used. Maybe that's where the 4th got the idea? Gentle Fist, superhuman tracking ability, spinning chakra field, the ability to project chakra from their chakra points for added agility, one strike killing ability ... I'd say they are more than just formidable.

Uchiha aren't masters of genjutsu. Kurenai's clan is. Uchiha are copycat ninja and are known widely for that. The MS is what makes the Uchiha monsters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by holypanl (Post 2008568)
Actually yes, really.

How many times ahs someone who hasn't got a byakugan not caught some projectile from behind them in their 'blind spot' and all that?

Those without the byakugan juust hone their sixth senses.

Tell that to Kakuzu. :heh:

That Other Ninja 2008-10-24 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by holypanl (Post 2010269)
Because I KNOW you're going to reply and try to argue, I'll just give the whole history of this argument and get it over with:









By following through here, we can see that the boldened and underlined text in the last quote is actually a self-destroying argument, which goes on to prove my post instead of countering it.

The whole point behind th argument which YOU raised is that the Byakugan's 360 deg vision is NOT useless. The point was raised that it IS, since practically any competent ninja's sixth sense helps him avoid/dodge/counter attacks from behind, anyway.

And after all that arguing, I don't even need to form an argument to finish it off, seeing as you so beautifully put my point forward anyway. Stupid.

*laughs* Wow get a grip.

How many times does someone need to tell you that that isn't the only thing Byakugan is useful for. Any ninja can do you what you claimed, with or without the Byakugan clearly. Byakugan would just enhance it by lets say oh... a thousand meters? While also seeing through solid objects and the chakra circulatory system. You seem to think the only useful thing Byakugan is for is like some "mind's eye" ability that a lot of the ninja have shown to possess, although its evident dodging something on instinct and being able to know where a person is without them seeing you from hundreds to thousands of meters away, pinpointing multiple targets simulateously and without having to move one's eyes or head at all and effortlessly scouting and tracking individuals is not the same thing. Also supporting that deadly hand-to-hand combat style that can dispatch someone in a single blow by aiming at their internal organs that are tied in with one's chakra circulatory system? Yeah its real useless. *thumbs up*

And I didn't raise an argument. I just disagreed with relatively simple responses while you resorted to derogatory insults. Seems to me like you're the one who cares more about arguing. ;\

Doyobi 2008-10-25 11:25

Byakugan! xD So I voted that.

Killer Bee 2008-10-26 02:41

I'd also like to point out that the byakugan must enhance the brain somehow. In order to be able to take advantage of 360 degree vision your brain must be able to process everything the eyes see in that 360 degree scope. Perhaps that's how the sharingan evolved into a copy cat doujutsu. It can see, retain and rapidly recall.

Instead of using broad range vision that the hyuuga use, the sharigan was born from byakugan users who learned how to focus the broad range into a single point, all the while still using the superior brain power it must take to observe and register all that happens when using the byakugan.

You'd have the ability to copy movements because of the super cognitive powers a byakugan user must have in order to see all the things happening, and probably a strong enough mind to retain what you've seen. You'd be able to predict movements because you're reading the chakra, not the fighter. And chakra reacts internally before a fighter moves externally.

That would make sense, at least to me, how the sharingan evolved from the byakugan.

BlackNhite 2008-10-26 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer Bee (Post 2013850)
I'd also like to point out that the byakugan must enhance the brain somehow. In order to be able to take advantage of 360 degree vision your brain must be able to process everything the eyes see in that 360 degree scope. Perhaps that's how the sharingan evolved into a copy cat doujutsu. It can see, retain and rapidly recall.

Instead of using broad range vision that the hyuuga use, the sharigan was born from byakugan users who learned how to focus the broad range into a single point, all the while still using the superior brain power it must take to observe and register all that happens when using the byakugan.

You'd have the ability to copy movements because of the super cognitive powers a byakugan user must have in order to see all the things happening, and probably a strong enough mind to retain what you've seen. You'd be able to predict movements because you're reading the chakra, not the fighter. And chakra reacts internally before a fighter moves externally.

That would make sense, at least to me, how the sharingan evolved from the byakugan.

Bravo, that was an excellent deduction.

holypanl 2008-10-26 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by That Other Ninja (Post 2010906)
*laughs* Wow get a grip.

How many times does someone need to tell you that that isn't the only thing Byakugan is useful for. Any ninja can do you what you claimed, with or without the Byakugan clearly. Byakugan would just enhance it by lets say oh... a thousand meters? While also seeing through solid objects and the chakra circulatory system. You seem to think the only useful thing Byakugan is for is like some "mind's eye" ability that a lot of the ninja have shown to possess, although its evident dodging something on instinct and being able to know where a person is without them seeing you from hundreds to thousands of meters away, pinpointing multiple targets simulateously and without having to move one's eyes or head at all and effortlessly scouting and tracking individuals is not the same thing. Also supporting that deadly hand-to-hand combat style that can dispatch someone in a single blow by aiming at their internal organs that are tied in with one's chakra circulatory system? Yeah its real useless. *thumbs up*

And I didn't raise an argument. I just disagreed with relatively simple responses while you resorted to derogatory insults. Seems to me like you're the one who cares more about arguing. ;\

No 1: By opposing someone else's opinion in a public forum, you are automatically doing what is known as "presenting an argument". Note as well that this is a debatable topic. It's a VERSUS topic. The title is: "Byakugan VS Sharingan". ;):rolleyes:

No. 2: Yes. I actually love arguing. I like making people look stupid. It's fun. :p:D

No 3: I did not present 'derogatory insults' (this is a form of tortology, by the way; you're pretty much saying "Insultingly lewd/base insults"). I think what you're trying to say is that I presented 'derogatory comments'. But apparently when your small, insufficient vocabulary is stretched as far as the word 'derogatory' you begin to use the word out of context. The only time I had insulted you in my previous posts was when I called you 'stupid'.

However, the way I used this word, 'stupid', may be described as many things, including, but not limited to: ''unnecessary', 'uncalled for', and 'in bad taste', but it was not in any sense, 'derogatory', which means 'base', 'lewd', 'salacious', and the likes. :rolleyes:

Anyway: I'm going to just move on to another topic now, seeing as you've pretty much strayed form the original argument, and are pointlessly rambling on. The original idea was: "Byakugan's 360 degree vision is useless, seeing as others are well able to cope without it, and even avoid danger from their blind sopts without it as well."

You've moved on to: "Byakugan as a whole is not useless, seeing as it can not ONLY see 360 degrees, but is also able to, (And I quote: ) support a deadly hand-to-hand combat style that can dispatch someone in a single blow by aiming at their internal organs that are tied in with one's chakra circulatory system, and is also able to pinpoint multiple targets simulateously and without having to move one's eyes or head at all and effortlessly scout and track individuals."

At this point, the argument now falls through and is no longer what I was originally debating, and therefore I see no reason to continue bashing my head against a thick, unthinking, unrelentingly stubborn wall.

I'm sure we all agree that whilest the Byakugan's 360 degree vision is pretty cool, it has been shown amply that all the more skilled ninjas in the series do not need to have 360 degree vision in order to protect their blind spots. This was the root of the argument. Case closed. God...:uhoh:

sasuke uchija 2008-10-26 15:01

the sharingan the bayakungan dosent stand a chacen cuze the bayakugan see throug chakra and shringan well it has his on special abilities like seen and like tracking youre movements adn conveting it like special like kakashi does

Xemn 2008-10-26 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by sasuke uchija (Post 2015270)
the sharingan the bayakungan dosent stand a chacen cuze the bayakugan see throug chakra and shringan well it has his on special abilities like seen and like tracking youre movements adn conveting it like special like kakashi does

Errm... I really couldn't understand what you tried to type...

sasuke uchija 2008-10-26 15:49

sorry i type fast anyways what i was trying to say is that the bayukagan dosent stand a chacen facing the sharigan ...and bayukugan se trough youre chakra and the sharingan allows you to track youre movements now you uderstand cool.

Cub-Sama 2008-10-26 17:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killer Bee (Post 2010685)
Uchiha aren't masters of genjutsu. Kurenai's clan is. Uchiha are copycat ninja and are known widely for that. The MS is what makes the Uchiha monsters.

Uchiha are master of genjutsu, any competent sharingan user can create high level genjutsu with the bat of an eye...literally, also mimicry, fire and genjutsu is what the sharingan is known for, the eyes even look like hypnotism wheels when they spin what better hint is that.

Also I would rather have the sharingan cos I just have to have buy a kitten raise it to be my best friend and kill it off to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan! Also with the sharingan get a mirror put yourself into a fantasy and drift away.

Xemn 2008-10-26 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama (Post 2015569)
Uchiha are master of genjutsu, any competent sharingan user can create high level genjutsu with the bat of an eye...literally, also mimicry, fire and genjutsu is what the sharingan is known for, the eyes even look like hypnotism wheels when they spin what better hint is that.

Also I would rather have the sharingan cos I just have to have buy a kitten raise it to be my best friend and kill it off to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan! Also with the sharingan get a mirror put yourself into a fantasy and drift away.

LOL!

When Itachi said your best friend, I think he meant a human bond. But good idea, lol!

Cub-Sama 2008-10-26 17:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xemn (Post 2015578)
LOL!

When Itachi said your best friend, I think he meant a human bond. But good idea, lol!

Loop holes my dear friend, loop holes...in fact I think the breaking of my nintendo wii would be enough

That Other Ninja 2008-10-26 19:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by holypanl (Post 2014784)
No 1: By opposing someone else's opinion in a public forum, you are automatically doing what is known as "presenting an argument". Note as well that this is a debatable topic. It's a VERSUS topic. The title is: "Byakugan VS Sharingan". ;):rolleyes:

No. 2: Yes. I actually love arguing. I like making people look stupid. It's fun. :p:D

No 3: I did not present 'derogatory insults' (this is a form of tortology, by the way; you're pretty much saying "Insultingly lewd/base insults"). I think what you're trying to say is that I presented 'derogatory comments'. But apparently when your small, insufficient vocabulary is stretched as far as the word 'derogatory' you begin to use the word out of context. The only time I had insulted you in my previous posts was when I called you 'stupid'.

However, the way I used this word, 'stupid', may be described as many things, including, but not limited to: ''unnecessary', 'uncalled for', and 'in bad taste', but it was not in any sense, 'derogatory', which means 'base', 'lewd', 'salacious', and the likes. :rolleyes:

Anyway: I'm going to just move on to another topic now, seeing as you've pretty much strayed form the original argument, and are pointlessly rambling on. The original idea was: "Byakugan's 360 degree vision is useless, seeing as others are well able to cope without it, and even avoid danger from their blind sopts without it as well."

You've moved on to: "Byakugan as a whole is not useless, seeing as it can not ONLY see 360 degrees, but is also able to, (And I quote: ) support a deadly hand-to-hand combat style that can dispatch someone in a single blow by aiming at their internal organs that are tied in with one's chakra circulatory system, and is also able to pinpoint multiple targets simulateously and without having to move one's eyes or head at all and effortlessly scout and track individuals."

At this point, the argument now falls through and is no longer what I was originally debating, and therefore I see no reason to continue bashing my head against a thick, unthinking, unrelentingly stubborn wall.

I'm sure we all agree that whilest the Byakugan's 360 degree vision is pretty cool, it has been shown amply that all the more skilled ninjas in the series do not need to have 360 degree vision in order to protect their blind spots. This was the root of the argument. Case closed. God...:uhoh:

So you admit to being a jerk? I'm glad we got that out of the way. But it still seems to me like your assumption of what is useful and what isn't with the Byakugan is just your own stubborn and subjective point of view. So you want to say i'm stubborn as opposed to you? *shrugs* I guess you can call god again on that one. :p

Killer Bee 2008-10-26 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cub-Sama (Post 2015569)
Uchiha are master of genjutsu, any competent sharingan user can create high level genjutsu with the bat of an eye...literally, also mimicry, fire and genjutsu is what the sharingan is known for, the eyes even look like hypnotism wheels when they spin what better hint is that.

Also I would rather have the sharingan cos I just have to have buy a kitten raise it to be my best friend and kill it off to gain the Mangekyou Sharingan! Also with the sharingan get a mirror put yourself into a fantasy and drift away.

You are speaking LITERALLY about three out of all the the Uchiha. How do I know this? Because you only have three Uchiha on which to base that theory. And the fact that the three you're basing it on all have MS means that they were exceptions, not the norm. Most Uchiha couldn't do the things you're claiming. Thus Uchihas are not masters of genjutsu.

A master of genjustu would still be able to cast a man in one without having to make contact with his eyes. This is why Might Gai was able to successfully fight Itachi. I would have liked to see how well and how far Guy could have gone with Itachi using his innovative method of taijutsu. You may even argue that because Itachi's clone cast Naruto into a genjutsu with his finger that I might be wrong.

No, the fact is that Itachi was basically controlling Naruto's focus through hypnotism until he had him. Had Naruto learned to fight Itachi by reading his footwork he too would have been able to avoid the genjutsu.


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