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-   -   Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=152043)

Klashikari 2018-08-15 05:53

Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Steins;Gate 0, Episode 18.

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MCAL 2018-08-15 13:25

Well that was... different.

Another improvement from the VN I thought. I was impressed by how they added a reason to why Amadeus was created in the first place.

Dengar 2018-08-15 13:46

Well it would have been created regardless. Something something convergence.

MCAL 2018-08-15 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar (Post 6268821)
Well it would have been created regardless. Something something convergence.

I know. That's why I was impressed they even wrote a reason at all.

Though giving explanations to minor plot holes in the original VN and making some characters (Mainly Kagari) more fleshed out has been one of the best parts pf this adaption. It definitely isn't the direction or animation cause lol.

Dengar 2018-08-15 13:55

Eh, what worked in the VN, worked in the VN. What wouldn't work in an anime, they changed. I don't really see either as superior or inferior.

Kakurin 2018-08-15 14:43

Good grief, I hope we got the combat scenes out of the way now. Direction was a complete mess.

Kanon 2018-08-15 17:21

The actions scenes were hilarious. Kagari decapitating soldiers with her bare hands and tanking a dozen bullets. Future enhancements are truly amazing.

I like that Leskinen kept his accent even after his reveal as the big bad (least surprising twist ever :heh: ), even if it makes it a bit hard to take him seriously. I really liked the whole "collaboration with my future self" angle.

Mayuri dies again, apparently. Poor girl can't catch a break. And neither can Okabe. Hopefully, they'll be able to complete the time leap machine before it's too late for a retry.

FlareKnight 2018-08-15 18:47

Are we really sure the time machine blew up? Wouldn't there be a bit more wreckage from a missile strike than that? We didn't actually see the missile hit the machine. Maybe it just knocked off a couple pieces while the rest phased out of that point in time. It didn't appear like a ton of wreckage fell off the roof and the blast area is fairly clear as well. But I suppose we should presume them dead for the time being.

If nothing else this should hopefully be the kick in the rear that Okabe needs. It feels like we've had a few of those moments already, but this has to be it. Mayuri is either back in the past or dead. His big decision to take this route so Mayuri at least survives has gone up in smoke.

Now to see if they can get the time leap machine working fast enough.

Kanon 2018-08-15 19:11

If they had successfully jumped to the past, Okabe's reading steiner would have activated though. I guess it's possible the missile hitting the machine made it malfunction and they arrived in the future instead.

There are only five episodes left, yet it feels like the story is really starting now.

GDB 2018-08-15 20:06

If Mayuri had died, wouldn't that create a time paradox? Since the only reason Kagari was there was because Mayuri adopted her in the future; a future in which she needs to live? At the very least it definitely would've triggered Reading Steiner to move the worldline in some way.

As for whether she went to the past or future, hard to say. Either way, wherever they end up clearly does not change the future.

Also, Kagari proved herself to be basically filler yet again. She served no purpose other than providing information to the Professor, and could have just as easily been dissected then and there. The current story wouldn't really change in the slightest other than a couple less filler episodes. What she did here, Suzuha could've done. But whatever, unless a Time Leap is done she's at least gone so we can get to the meat of the story.

AC-Phoenix 2018-08-15 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 6268891)
If they had successfully jumped to the past, Okabe's reading steiner would have activated though. I guess it's possible the missile hitting the machine made it malfunction and they arrived in the future instead.

There are only five episodes left, yet it feels like the story is really starting now.

Thats something I tried arguing a few times now, and I will continue to do so : Not necessarily.
The World line will only change if they actually make changes to it. In fact, reading Steiner not having activated is kind of proof that they made it there.

If Mayuri had already been dead in the future of this would line, she couldn't have adopted Kagari.
i.E Kagari wouldn't have gone on a rampage over her getting hit.

So we either stand in front of a huge plot hole, or they survived but somehow still didn't change the timeline.

It leaves us with a limited amount of options

a) They traveled to the past, but no change significant enough to change the timeline or activate the reader was made.

b) They have yet to make the change, wherever they landed.

c) They actually traveled into the future.
In that case, Okabe wouldn't see any changes to the timeline because it has yet to happen for both them AND him. Furthermore, they repeat their actions in the future to preserve the current events as much as possible.

d) we now actually got a time paradox.


C solves the problem rather nicely imho.

Wandering Soul 2018-08-16 00:08

Hopefully that was the last of the action scenes. They really aren't this show's strong point and end up being hilarious for all the wrong reasons.

Leskinen finally reveals himself as an antagonist in a twist that everyone saw coming and there are some parts of the plan I like. Namely that he worked with his future self and that he keeps his accent after the reveal:heh:.

I sort of doubt that Mayuri is dead, but hopefully the series is done kicking Okabe while he's down and he can start taking action.

Dengar 2018-08-16 05:40

....By that logic, Suzuha coming to the past to create a new future would have caused a time paradox in the ending to S;G. Instead, causality just kind of.. flushed her out.

HtwoN 2018-08-16 10:40

The fight scenes were bad, but whatever, I don't watch S;G for glorious combat.:heh:

Otherwise, I really like the story development. Definitely an improvement from the VN.

AC-Phoenix 2018-08-16 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar (Post 6269003)
....By that logic, Suzuha coming to the past to create a new future would have caused a time paradox in the ending to S;G. Instead, causality just kind of.. flushed her out.

There is a huge difference between Mayuri and Suzuha though.

If Mayuri isn't alive Kagari she can't take Kagari in, hence everything that has happened up to this point would change --> Hence Reading Steiner would activate.

Also remember Suzuha isn't protected from changes to the timeline at all to a point where she even needs to ask Okabe whether it changed. She had a suspicion yeah, but that was due to observing him, rather than actually knowing.

4th Dimension 2018-08-17 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by MCAL (Post 6268820)
Well that was... different.

Another improvement from the VN I thought. I was impressed by how they added a reason to why Amadeus was created in the first place.

Wouldn't Amadeus be created regardless. We knew in S;G that Kiritsu was working on brain recording and such tech. By anime standards, using brain recordings of people to take a shortcut in AI development doesn't sound much of a stretch. So Amadeus existing time travel or no doesn't feel like a plot hole to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakurin (Post 6268839)
Good grief, I hope we got the combat scenes out of the way now. Direction was a complete mess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 6268867)
The actions scenes were hilarious. Kagari decapitating soldiers with her bare hands and tanking a dozen bullets. Future enhancements are truly amazing.

OMG yes. What's with decapitating people with bare hands?!? Does she have force blades in her palms or something?!? And where did they get these guys?!? On a crowded rooftop containing a madwoman running towards them and Suzuha and Mayuri BEHIND the madwoman. Using automatic weapons they managed to hit EVERYTHING except any of their potential targets. And then the leader or something goes. "AIM FOR THE TORSO!" As opposed to WHAT?!? Her NAILS?
And then Kagari for some reason slips, and they STOP firing?!? She should have become Swiss cheese then.

So yeah. Less combat scenes like this pls.

Speaking of the fight scene: So there are THREE sides (apart from the protagonists) here? Stratfor, which apparently has been suborned by some scientist to do shit for him apparently, DARPA which presumably actually works for the US government and Russians which don't make the appearance here. So the guys who show up in the Blackhawk are Stratfor while the Apache is Americans proper (DARPA) right? Given that America apparently knows about his operations, I wonder how he isn't under much tighter scrutiny in the future. Letting a mad scientist loose in your all important time travel shenanigans doesn't sound like a smart idea.
Also I wonder what Japan thinks of someone strafing a rooftop with 30mm cannon fire in the middle of crowded Akiba. And I'll abstain from bashing the fiction usual ridiculous usage of attack helicopters. It's an unfortunate staple of fiction and as stupid as having automatic ranged weapon armed solders CHARGING into melee.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 6268867)
Mayuri dies again, apparently. Poor girl can't catch a break. And neither can Okabe. Hopefully, they'll be able to complete the time leap machine before it's too late for a retry.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight (Post 6268880)
Are we really sure the time machine blew up? Wouldn't there be a bit more wreckage from a missile strike than that? We didn't actually see the missile hit the machine. Maybe it just knocked off a couple pieces while the rest phased out of that point in time. It didn't appear like a ton of wreckage fell off the roof and the blast area is fairly clear as well. But I suppose we should presume them dead for the time being.

If nothing else this should hopefully be the kick in the rear that Okabe needs. It feels like we've had a few of those moments already, but this has to be it. Mayuri is either back in the past or dead. His big decision to take this route so Mayuri at least survives has gone up in smoke.

Now to see if they can get the time leap machine working fast enough.

Yeah. If they meant to be clear that the time machine is a goner there would have been a lot more wreckage. Helfire missiles don't delete matter.

So I'm thinking they made a jump, but in a damaged time machine so where they'll end up and if they ever end up anywhere is a question. So I'd think the goal now might be to try to fix the roof fight so they do make it?
But I also wonder what did they manage to do there that caused a slight change of the future?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 6268891)
If they had successfully jumped to the past, Okabe's reading steiner would have activated though. I guess it's possible the missile hitting the machine made it malfunction and they arrived in the future instead.

There are only five episodes left, yet it feels like the story is really starting now.

Well the change could have been slight enough that Okabe's situation hasn't changed much for him to notice. On the other hand given that they were planning a MAJOR change I don't think, as others have pointed out, that they have made it to the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix (Post 6268909)
b) They have yet to make the change, wherever they landed.

Would any time need to pass back in the original time? I'd think the change would be instant as soon as the time machine leaves. Because at that point anything they do would have been in the past of the moment they left from. Therefore if they have done any major changes to the past* the consequences would be instantly noticed by anyone with strong enough Reading;Steiner. By major changes I mean any changes that cause changes to the situation on that rooftop, because if they made changes that don't cause a change to the situation on the rooftop I don't think Okabe would be able to notice a change. He only seems able to notice changes because suddenly what he remembers doesn't line up with what he sees. Unless he gets additional feeling that timeline changed?

--------------
PS:
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 6268891)
There are only five episodes left, yet it feels like the story is really starting now.

Yeah. I feel like everything since Okabe broke off with Amadeus has basically been filer, or side story info. I guess Kagari bits were needed to explain her actions here, but then again she isn't really needed for the end result. A firefight breaks out, Suzuha and Mayushi make a break for the time machine and are seemingly hit as they are leaving.

noktown 2018-08-18 17:48

Can we get to a point where Okabe stops being a whiny bitch ? I knew that the beginning was going to be depressing, but was hoping towards the middle he would snap out of it and start making shit happen. I liked what Maho said, that if they didn't find the perfect timeline where all of them are alive that means they need to find one that does by jumping more and more. While it's harsh on Okabe, if there's even a 0.00001% that there's a timeline where they all live and the war doesn't happen, then he should take it and bring Hououin Kyouma back into the game.

Note that I didn't read the VN, but the anime is so overly-dramatic, that it feels like it's going to be one of those cliffhanger endings where nothing gets solved.

Kanon 2018-08-18 18:28

Okabe has no choice but to act now. So we're at this point, but I agree it's taken way too long to get there. The story has been dragging its feet since the episode with Kurisu. It doesn't help that the story itself is pretty weak and we already know how it ends (just not the details of how we get there), with twists you can see coming from a mile away. Leskinen is amusing but he's too much of a cartoonish villain. I liked that there was no big bad in Steins;Gate, SERN remained a faceless organization, with Moeka and Mr. Braun both being mere executives with reasons for doing what they were doing. They weren't evil. There was Nakabachi who was total scum but the story didn't focus on his character, only on his actions.

aldw 2018-08-18 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 6269782)
Okabe has no choice but to act now. So we're at this point, but I agree it's taken way too long to get there. The story has been dragging its feet since the episode with Kurisu. It doesn't help that the story itself is pretty weak and we already know how it ends (just not the details of how we get there), with twists you can see coming from a mile away. Leskinen is amusing but he's too much of a cartoonish villain. I liked that there was no big bad in Steins;Gate, SERN remained a faceless organization, with Moeka and Mr. Braun both being mere executives with reasons for doing what they were doing. They weren't evil. There was Nakabachi who was total scum but the story didn't focus on his character, only on his actions.

Aye, it's why I like the VN presentation more despite its various shortcomings because of the better matched pacing of the story, Leskinen being less of an over-the-top antagonist, and Okabe being more aware and active a character.

Dengar 2018-08-19 05:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by noktown (Post 6269777)
Can we get to a point where Okabe stops being a whiny bitch ? I knew that the beginning was going to be depressing, but was hoping towards the middle he would snap out of it and start making shit happen. I liked what Maho said, that if they didn't find the perfect timeline where all of them are alive that means they need to find one that does by jumping more and more. While it's harsh on Okabe, if there's even a 0.00001% that there's a timeline where they all live and the war doesn't happen, then he should take it and bring Hououin Kyouma back into the game.

Note that I didn't read the VN, but the anime is so overly-dramatic, that it feels like it's going to be one of those cliffhanger endings where nothing gets solved.

Say what you will, but at least it's realistic.

You don't just "snap out" of something like this. I prefer it this way.


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