AnimeSuki.com Forum

AnimeSuki Forum (http://forums.animesuki.com/index.php)
-   Madoka Magica (http://forums.animesuki.com/forumdisplay.php?f=107)
-   -   Madoka Magica - Character Discussion - Tomoe Mami (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=100967)

Mentar 2011-01-21 02:25

Clarste already summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say, just one minor addition:

Mami was a VICTIM.

Kyubey forced her into the contract when she was dying and had no choice. So yes, while pitching the dangerous life she hated so much to two other girls was a pretty nasty and selfish thing to do, but with her backstory taken into account, it's understandable.

R.I.P.

jeroz 2011-01-21 04:58

she's evil in a sense that she's dragging two innocent girls into a dangerous world with her
yet her true intentions could just been that she wants friends.

Lovely summary Clarste

I wanted to hate her in the first 2 eps, now I am not so sure. Hopefully there are a lot more characters in this show that shares the same level of ambiguity.

Random Wanderer 2011-01-21 08:20

Well said, Clarste. Very nice summary.

...I want her back. :( *grabs Kyubey by the neck* BRING HER BACK, YOU LITTLE DEMON! :frustrated:

If someone wishes for her to be brought back to life, I would actually be more accepting of an ending where she would eventually die again because they have to stop Kyubey, and that will undo all the wishes. It would be bittersweet, and it would still hurt, but it wouldn't be this horrible.

HitoriTomoyo 2011-01-21 22:21

Mami wasn't evil, she was misguided. A lonely person seeking friendship in the hell she unintentionally (somewhat) threw herself into and she just couldn't bear the loneliness when Madoka offered to be by her side.

I feel relieved that she did not end up being the decieving-type of character but her character as a whole is just one big tragedy. It's just so saddening.

Hooves 2011-01-21 22:29

Episode 4 will defiantly be very deciding on fan's speculations on if a certain wish comes true. But I found Mami to not really be evil like HitoriTomoyo said, she was merely forced into the situation from what was happening the past. She even felt light from all the burdens and loneliness in herself when Madoka offered to form a duo with her.

Random Wanderer 2011-01-21 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by HitoriTomoyo (Post 3449991)
Mami wasn't evil, she was misguided. A lonely person seeking friendship in the hell she unintentionally (somewhat) threw herself into and she just couldn't bear the loneliness when Madoka offered to be by her side.

I feel relieved that she did not end up being the decieving-type of character but her character as a whole is just one big tragedy. It's just so saddening.

That image you have in your signature makes me very sad, because it never happened. They should have at least had some time together before something like this happened to one of them!

...Please excuse me. I need to go track down this Urobuchi Gen and kill have a talk with him.

panzerfan 2011-01-22 00:22

I feel strongly that something's amiss here. Without clarification of Kyubey and Mami's relation to each other, it will be difficult to give a proper postmortem to the character (if she does not come back).

It is clear that she was... 'coerced' into forming that contract. However, too much gap exist with understanding her drive. What few fragments exist shows that she's seeking comrade and that the weight of the world is heavy on her...

HitoriTomoyo 2011-01-22 01:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Wanderer (Post 3450048)
That image you have in your signature makes me very sad, because it never happened. They should have at least had some time together before something like this happened to one of them!

...Please excuse me. I need to go track down this Urobuchi Gen and kill have a talk with him.

Such a misleading image, I agree; at this rate we're never going to see all of them together in their Mahou Shoujo costumes in any of the episodes (outside of the OP). It's pretty sad to see her killed off so early, especially when the circumstances surrounding her Mahou Shoujo background was made more clear with this episode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by panzerfan (Post 3450168)
I feel strongly that something's amiss here. Without clarification of Kyubey and Mami's relation to each other, it will be difficult to give a proper postmortem to the character (if she does not come back).

It is clear that she was... 'coerced' into forming that contract. However, too much gap exist with understanding her drive. What few fragments exist shows that she's seeking comrade and that the weight of the world is heavy on her...

I don't think Mami possessed any inherent genuine drive to serve as a Mahou Shoujo beyond obligatory reasons. She was stuck in a contract that was suddenly forced upon her and she wasn't happy with those circumstances. While I wonder why she never sought out any genuine companionship if she was genuinely so lonely (are other Mahou Shoujo that difficult to encounter in this universe?), she nonetheless was not fond of the position she assumed with Kyuubey.

alu546 2011-01-22 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mentar (Post 3448521)
Clarste already summed up pretty much everything I wanted to say, just one minor addition:

Mami was a VICTIM.

Kyubey forced her into the contract when she was dying and had no choice. So yes, while pitching the dangerous life she hated so much to two other girls was a pretty nasty and selfish thing to do, but with her backstory taken into account, it's understandable.

R.I.P.

I told a friend who also watches this and had the same opinion of her being a victom this: Kyubry couldve not shown up and offered her anything either, then where would she be?

Ofcourse, I dont like Kyubey either, I am still rooting for that blackhaied girl(whos name isnt stated enoiugh for me to remember) to kill him. But in regards to Mami, it was just how things went down.

I was unsurprised at Mami's death though(and i mightve been the only one not surprised) but first, the hints at the magical girl thing being survivalgame-esque have been there since episode 2, and as this is labled as seinen the possibility of things getting brutal was there.

Which brings me to this: I didnt like Mami as a person much. In manyways her actions were understandable, but I dont like when someone tries to share misery with others in order to fend off lonliness. Whats more, until this incident it seemed Madoka and Sayaka had a grander idea about becoming a mahou shoujo than what it was in reality. Mami's overconfident nature mightve been an unintentional catalyst for this. Regardless, that overconfident nature led to her undoing. She was warned after all.

But thatss not to say that I wouldnt have grown to like her if she werent a fine red paste right now. Actually though, the only character I truly like so far is the girl who saved Madoka and Sayaka.

EDIT: Oh and I doubt she is revived. There is certainly a possibility for it that I wont deny, but as anyone who has read or seen a true survival series like Gantz knows: You dont come back from the "Oh shi--" kind of deaths. regarless of who you are. It would take the shock value and damage it for the rest of the show.

rocket 2011-01-22 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by alu546 (Post 3450784)
I told a friend who also watches this and had the same opinion of her being a victom this: Kyubry couldve not shown up and offered her anything either, then where would she be?

She would be dead.

She would also not have suffered terrible loneliness, the trauma of hunting down fallen magical girls (supposing it's true), and the temptation and moral degradation of choosing to entice free girls into the same torturous servitude inorder to assuage her loneliness.

A life of slavery in the service of evil is no favor.

In fact I can think of no worse slavery than one which does not physically coerce Mami into doing terrible things, but instead plays upon her psychological weaknesses.

Lime soda 2011-01-22 13:20

It's been bothering me about how the battle with Charlotte ended. Was it because she was so happy after hearing out Madoka that she wasn't fighting carefully enough?

Or when Homura said Mami's never fought anything like Charlotte before, that Mami had really never had a battle with a witch that strong? I just assumed since episode 1 that Mami was as strong or more powerful then Homura. She's been shown to be extremely good with shooting too. But the way she lost like that when Homura overwhelmed the witch didn't sit well with me.

Could Mami have won if she had been more cautious? I figured the first form of the witch was protecting its true form so it would not possible to defeat it unless it cames out of its shell. Maybe Mami's potential as a magical girl was not as strong as the others. Each of her rifles are one shot and she has to create more and grab them and re-aim. In comparison to Homura who was dishing out those energy blasts things freely that were way more powerful then one shot from those guns (Tiro Finale level kind of attack?).

I feel really sad after seeing her go like this but I hope reviving people is impossible in that world. At most, I wouldn't mind if her spirit somehow helps or talks with Madoka in a really brief moment near the end.

alu546 2011-01-22 14:02

Think of it like this: Deep in the ocean there is a fish that has an attenae with a luminecent glow at the end. The purpose is to entice other fish to that glow because there is no light deep in the ocean. The fish finally get close and BAM, the fish with the antennae eats them in a single motion and bite before they can get away.

The thing is, the witch in this instance wasnt very strong, but because Mami had to much confidence in her abilities, she was lured into an easy conquest and killed instantly after she thought the battle was over.

However, I suspect Akemi is far stronger and more experienced than Mami was, and that Mami was just assuming she was stronger. I mean, Akemi didnt even break out her mahoushoujo gear for that battle.

GDB 2011-01-22 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by alu546 (Post 3450930)
I mean, Akemi didnt even break out her mahoushoujo gear for that battle.

Yes she did. You can see it dissipate after the battle. It just didn't show her transformation sequence.

Skyfall 2011-01-22 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lime soda (Post 3450896)
It's been bothering me about how the battle with Charlotte ended. Was it because she was so happy after hearing out Madoka that she wasn't fighting carefully enough?

Or when Homura said Mami's never fought anything like Charlotte before, that Mami had really never had a battle with a witch that strong? I just assumed since episode 1 that Mami was as strong or more powerful then Homura. She's been shown to be extremely good with shooting too. But the way she lost like that when Homura overwhelmed the witch didn't sit well with me.

Could Mami have won if she had been more cautious? I figured the first form of the witch was protecting its true form so it would not possible to defeat it unless it cames out of its shell. Maybe Mami's potential as a magical girl was not as strong as the others. Each of her rifles are one shot and she has to create more and grab them and re-aim. In comparison to Homura who was dishing out those energy blasts things freely that were way more powerful then one shot from those guns (Tiro Finale level kind of attack?).

I feel really sad after seeing her go like this but I hope reviving people is impossible in that world. At most, I wouldn't mind if her spirit somehow helps or talks with Madoka in a really brief moment near the end.



Personally, i think the witch was simply stronger than anything Mami has faced. While i can see how one could arrive to the conclusion that Mami would be as strong as Homura, given that the later always backed down from confrontation, that doesn't necessarily say much about their relative strength. Homura simply didn't have a bone to pick with Mami - she said herself she would want to avoid fighting her. While Mami probably perceived that as lack of confidence on Homura's part, i believe it simply meant what she said - that she doesn't want to fight her. While outwardly Homura doesn't have the friendliest disposition, that doesn't mean she would take any pleasure in walking over Mami in order to achieve her goal. Rather, her goal is one - to prevent Madoka from becoming a MG. Does fighting / beating mami help her accomplish this in any way ?

What i am trying to say is - while i can see how one would assume Mami to be on Homura's level or stronger (which is likely what she assumed herself as well) - that is an assumption based on the fact Homura never chose to confront Mami in a battle. Which is an assumption drawn from a false conclusion - that Houmura's objective is to weed out potential competition for the seeds, and thus her not attacking must be a sign of weakness. But that simply isn't Homura's goal, thus her avoiding battle (and appearing weaker as result) with Mami is not a stepping stone for judging her actual ability.

Besides, we have nothing to judge Mami's power against. Was she strong ? Weak ? We simply don't know, because up to this point, we had nothing to compare her to. She looked to handle herself pretty well in a fight indeed, but this is actually information that exists in a vacuum - for all we know, she might have been weak by MG standards and had gotten lucky with witches thus far (She took some punding against the rose bush as well, it wasn't a flawless victory for her). Or she could be of average ability, and Houmura is simply stronger (which i think is the most likely case). We can assume Homura to be more experienced as well - after all she somehow spotted this witch to be a strong one, something which eluded Mami until it was too late.

Could Mami have won if she were more cautious ? I am not sure - while it is likely she considered she had already won, it's not like she had turned her back to the witch. I believe the implication was that the witch simply moved too fast for Mami. Could she have dodged if she was ready to ? Hard to say, but overall, considering Mami's fighting style and time needed to set up a big attack (and the witch took a fair deal of pounding before going down), and the speed of this particular witch, it was probably a losing battle either way.

So ...yeah. I would say that the conclusion of Mami being strong compared to Homura is likely a false one, as it is actually based on lack of information (Homura hadn't fought up to this point, so no way to actually gauge her power) and misinterpretation on her intentions and thus what her backing down from fights with Mami implied.


As to why she didn't break out of Mami's binding ... well, she was caught outside her MG setup, and it could be that the girls don't posses any special ability unless transformed, which the binding likely prevented her from doing.

alu546 2011-01-22 14:35

Eh I looked again and you are right, the gear she has just looks like her school uniform. Id still say she was much stronger though. But yes, alot more experience.

J the Drafter 2011-01-22 15:16

Someone pointed out (on another forum) that Homura used a specific strategy for beating Charlotte ( which is a different topic altogether, and one that involves speculation about time travel). Homura used her movement ability to evade the creature and her bomb-dropping ability to strike at her opponent from inside its body. Mami never even got a hit in against Charlotte's second form, for that matter. Mami might have been able to kill Charlotte if she'd had enough distance to dodge and enough time to create a musket spam, but she never pulled back when Charlotte went into her second form.

ChronoReverse 2011-01-22 15:20

Looking at how incredibly fast Charlotte's second form bursts out and reaches up close to Mami before the slow motion, I'm pretty sure Mami simply had no time to react.

Lime soda 2011-01-22 15:43

Yeah, I shoulda gave Homura more credit but I had a little bias towards her because of stuff that happened in the episode. I'm probably still trying to get used to her because she's been cold and distant. Since Mami is older I thought she was a magical girl for way longer then Homura. Guess I was way off.

Charlotte was attacking Homura non-stop and it could stretch like crazy. Mami would of had a hard time dodging all the time while fitting in the chance to attack back. On the other hand, Homura didn't even equip her shield for that fight...

J the Drafter 2011-01-22 17:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lime soda (Post 3451034)
Yeah, I shoulda gave Homura more credit but I had a little bias towards her because of stuff that happened in the episode. I'm probably still trying to get used to her because she's been cold and distant. Since Mami is older I thought she was a magical girl for way longer then Homura. Guess I was way off.

Charlotte was attacking Homura non-stop and it could stretch like crazy. Mami would of had a hard time dodging all the time while fitting in the chance to attack back. On the other hand, Homura didn't even equip her shield for that fight...

I'll bet that Mami could have tied it up, though. In any event, the Puella Magi/Charlotte fight is an example of matchups more than raw power. Mami couldn't hit the witch because she needs time and space to set up enough weapons to do appreciable damage, and Charlotte's powerset was well-suited to denying her those two things. Homura's powers have a greater emphasis on movement, and her ability to drop bombs inside Charlotte allowed Homura a means to bypass much of her opponent's damage resistance.

Genten 2011-01-22 21:01

I've posted a rant for just about every character in this little anime. Now I just have to tacle Homura, who's friggin' hard to speculate about because of how little screen time she has.

Spoiler for Mami:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:54.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.