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-   -   Psycho-Pass 2 - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=129544)

zerriet 2014-11-28 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys.unlock.things. (Post 5351969)
Yeah, I kinda think that's the case. Like tougane's some inside assassin that's gonna kill anyone against the system. Oh! One last question, guys. Is the toganes controlling the system or is it just there is a chance that togane's mom is in the system?

Its more likely that Togane's mom is just a part of a system, albeit one that was chosen to represent the MWPSB and make sure that the truth behind the system does not get exposed.

keys.unlock.things. 2014-11-28 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by atua (Post 5351968)
As for why he would demote inspectors, why not? They're the psychopaths in control of everything, so he might as well entertain himself. It's also a "clean" way to get rid of unwanted, overly curious inspectors.

This. Is kinda twisted... But I don't think togane would do something just to entertain himself and then removed from the job. Remember? He was an enforcer 18 yrs. Ago, when he was 23. Wait, so he's 41?!

atua 2014-11-28 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys.unlock.things. (Post 5351973)
But I don't think togane would do something just to entertain himself and then removed from the job.

If all he wanted to do was remove inspectors, then logically he would use different methods to eliminate them. Raise their PP for some, arrange "accidents" for others, etc. Because anyone would think five different inspectors dying the same way over a short period of time suspicious, and Tougane is not a stupid man. So he's not killing them this way for a rational reason.

Quote:

Wait, so he's 41?!
Yep, he's old, LOL. I'm thinking there's something odd going on with Misako's age too. In the photo, Sakuya looks 8-10 and Misako looks like a 60+ grandmother. But in the biography Mika found, she had him in her 30s, which doesn't add up. Why does she look so old in the photo?

Kanon 2014-11-28 08:37

It's official, this show has gone full retard. Kamui's backstory might just be the most stupid I've ever seen in science fiction. Is there really anyone here that doesn't realize how absurd it is to have one person made up of 184 corpses? Not to mention, they stitched 7 brains together. Fran would be proud. I didn't realize Psycho Pass was a fantasy/supernatural anime until now. Plenty of science fictions require you to suspend your disbelief a bit. S1 did. That's fine. But they could have tried to make it at least a tiny little bit plausible. Once again, they went for the shock factor (that's what this season is all about, it has no value beyond that) and it ended up being a lot dumber than they probably anticipated.

I can't wait until they surgically fuse all 246 of Sibyl's brains and put them into a giant mecha, creating the strongest and smartest (according to the logic of this show) being ever. It wouldn't even surprise me at this point.

Sheba 2014-11-28 09:38

Even Kojima high on acid would have dismissed the bit about Kamui as too idiotic as an idea. Even with the NANOMACHINES BITCH handwave.

Jetzero Infinity 2014-11-28 10:03

Putting aside the stupidity of the Kamui reveal, the Togane reveal doesn't make sense either. I mean if one of the Sybil brains is his mother and she made both of them I can kind of understand Kamui falling under Sybil's radar for obvious reasons, but why the heck would they keep Togane around? Since he apparently enjoys clouding people's PP's for the lulz, there's no logical reason that Sybil shouldn't have turned him into a pile of organs by now since that kinda contradicts their MO.

I mean if he was doing it to help get rid of people Sybil wanted silently disposed of that would be one thing, but there's zero indication of that. Especially since he wants to corrupt Akane of all people as she's practically Sybil's pet at this point and as affecting her state of mind would hurt their plans it makes no sense that they'd be okay with it.

keys.unlock.things. 2014-11-28 10:13

I still have not notice anything significant in the timeline of this season. But, some of you, people, said that it should not be 2114. Actually, that year is right. In s1 psycho pass, in the avatar(?) case, there is a date in the screen of shion while she analyzes who the criminal is. And on that screen, its written 2113, then in the 1st episode of s2, mika said that she's already been an inspector for 1 year and a half. Practically speaking, it is 2114 and akane is either 22 or 23, depending on her birthday.

GDB 2014-11-28 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 5352034)
It's official, this show has gone full retard. Kamui's backstory might just be the most stupid I've ever seen in science fiction. Is there really anyone here that doesn't realize how absurd it is to have one person made up of 184 corpses? Not to mention, they stitched 7 brains together. Fran would be proud. I didn't realize Psycho Pass was a fantasy/supernatural anime until now. Plenty of science fictions require you to suspend your disbelief a bit. S1 did. That's fine. But they could have tried to make it at least a tiny little bit plausible. Once again, they went for the shock factor (that's what this season is all about, it has no value beyond that) and it ended up being a lot dumber than they probably anticipated.

I can't wait until they surgically fuse all 246 of Sibyl's brains and put them into a giant mecha, creating the strongest and smartest (according to the logic of this show) being ever. It wouldn't even surprise me at this point.

If it helps, so far it doesn't look like anything that happens in this season is going to matter in regards to the movie.

keys.unlock.things. 2014-11-28 10:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetzero Infinity (Post 5352095)
but why the heck would they keep Togane around? Since he apparently enjoys clouding people's PP's for the lulz, there's no logical reason that Sybil shouldn't have turned him into a pile of organs by now since that kinda contradicts their MO.

I mean if he was doing it to help get rid of people Sybil wanted silently disposed of that would be one thing, but there's zero indication of that. Especially since he wants to corrupt Akane of all people as she's practically Sybil's pet at this point and as affecting her state of mind would hurt their plans it makes no sense that they'd be okay with it.

I think they're keeping togane around for physical strength and material strength. After all, sybil's a big dome of brains, and the only way they can kill a person is if its hue is clouded in some way, even if its just paralyzer mode. (the nona tower/kagari fiasco) in order to kill someone outside the system's boundaries, they need real humans. Not drones cause drones can only kill people within certain limitations. There are limitations to the system and to technology, but none for humans.

atua 2014-11-28 10:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys.unlock.things. (Post 5352114)
After all, sybil's a big dome of brains, and the only way they can kill a person is if its hue is clouded in some way, even if its just paralyzer mode.

Except we've seen Kasei hack a dominator twice (once to lethal eliminator to kill Kougami, once to destroy decomposer mode to kill Kagari) in S1. Then there was the permanent paralyser mode Akane got.

Jaden 2014-11-28 10:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 5352034)
Is there really anyone here that doesn't realize how absurd it is to have one person made up of 184 corpses? Not to mention, they stitched 7 brains together.

Well, now that I think about it, yes. It's pretty fuckin' out there. Not to mention it's not normal cadavers from the hospital or anything like that, but a bunch of battered meat scraps from a plane crash?? Unless the crash was a cover story and they kidnapped the children.

keys.unlock.things. 2014-11-28 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by atua (Post 5352126)
Except we've seen Kasei hack a dominator twice (once to lethal eliminator to kill Kougami, once to destroy decomposer mode to kill Kagari) in S1. Then there was the permanent paralyser mode Akane got.

Precisely! Both on those times, the person's hue is clouded. Maybe not enough for eliminator but enough for paralyzer. They can hack all dominators as long as the one on the receiving end does not lock the trigger (example: if said person's CC is below that of the standards for a latent criminal.) In the end, all sybil needs is to cloud a person's hue so they can kill him/her.

atua 2014-11-28 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by keys.unlock.things. (Post 5352130)
In the end, all sybil needs is to cloud a person's hue so they can kill him/her.

Why would you think that? The point is that Kasei, being an avatar of the Sibyl System, can make a dominator do whatever she wants. Why do you think the trigger would lock when she can control everything else? And you're still forgetting about the locked paralyser mode Akane asked for.

Kanon 2014-11-28 10:58

It doesn't look like anybody has mentioned it, but the explanation for why scanners can't see Kamui makes no sense. They say Sibyl recognizes him as a corpse because his body is made up of corpses, but why would it? Kamui breathes, his hearts beats, his brain emits brainwaves, and his face is still mainly that of Kamui Kirito, a person known to be alive. Given the way the scanners work (facial recognition + analyses of brainwaves), there's no reason for him to be invisible. Am I missing something or what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB (Post 5352109)
If it helps, so far it doesn't look like anything that happens in this season is going to matter in regards to the movie.

I figured as much after watching the trailer. It's a good thing because this will make it easy to forget this second season ever existed, but it's a bad thing because it makes it even more pointless than it already was. This season adds nothing to the first one. No social commentary that wasn't already done before in S1, no lessons to be learned. Events that are going to have no bearings whatsoever to the movie. Newly introduced characters that are all going to disappear. No character development except for Mika, but Mika didn't really have a personality to begin with in S1.

We still have three weeks left, but at the end of the show, I'm pretty confident I'm going to ask myself: what was the point of all this?

Oh yeah, we found out about Sibyl's origins. Something we never needed to find out about. The first season understood that. Who creates a dystopia is never important, it's how they work and what they tell us about humanity that is.

atua 2014-11-28 11:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 5352139)
Am I missing something or what?

Maybe all the drugs & immunosuppresants that Kamui's soaked in is confusing the scanners? :rolleyes:

keys.unlock.things. 2014-11-28 11:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by atua (Post 5352138)
And you're still forgetting about the locked paralyser mode Akane asked for.

Oh yeah...... Yea, sorry there. Guess I was too bent on knowing something, I completely ignored that fact. Sorry there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 5352139)
Given the way the scanners work (facial recognition + analyses of brainwaves), there's no reason for him to be invisible. Am I missing something or what?

There's an episode in s2 where Saiga (or someone) said that having a transpalnt is also like having the owner's psycho pass transferred. Maybe coz kamui's built from different parts of 184 corpses that's why the scanners are also screwed up.

Kanon 2014-11-28 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by atua (Post 5352140)
Maybe all the drugs & immunosuppresants that Kamui's soaked in is confusing the scanners? :rolleyes:

Is that sarcasm directed at me or the show's writer? Anyway, it doesn't completely erase his brainwaves. The scanners might be unable to correctly analyze his psycho pass, but they will definitely be able to tell there's a dude in front of them. His brain, despite being a mixture of multiple brains, still functions like any other brains (how exactly is beyond me...). The scanners should be pick up something.

DMurphy 2014-11-28 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaden (Post 5352128)
Well, now that I think about it, yes. It's pretty fuckin' out there. Not to mention it's not normal cadavers from the hospital or anything like that, but a bunch of battered meat scraps from a plane crash?? Unless the crash was a cover story and they kidnapped the children.

I don't think the plane crash is a cover story, but I do think there is a distinct element of 'for the lulz' here.

By which I mean, we know that brain matter from six other living brains was implanted into Kamui. So logically, there were seven survivors, even if maybe the others weren't going to recover. I suspect the brain grafts were the real purpose of the Togane Foundation's experiments, and everything else is a combination of a) They needed organ transplants to keep him alive, and b) Togane's mother is a total sadist and decided to just implant flesh and organs and bones from 184 other children in him entirely for personal reasons - either because she thought there was a twisted poetry in it, or because it amused her, or because she genuinely saw it as a way to keep all the children alive.

atua 2014-11-28 11:27

@Kanon I guess sarcasm doesn't translate well in print. Anyway, my point is that I agree with you on the absurdity of the whole Frankenstein's monster plot point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMurphy (Post 5352160)
I suspect the brain grafts were the real purpose of the Togane Foundation's experiments, and everything else is a combination of... (snipped for space)

Yes, the brain grafts seem to be a continuation of their experiments to improve/augment the Sibyl brain extraction process.

GDB 2014-11-28 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 5352139)
I figured as much after watching the trailer. It's a good thing because this will make it easy to forget this second season ever existed, but it's a bad thing because it makes it even more pointless than it already was. This season adds nothing to the first one. No social commentary that wasn't already done before in S1, no lessons to be learned. Events that are going to have no bearings whatsoever to the movie. Newly introduced characters that are all going to disappear. No character development except for Mika, but Mika didn't really have a personality to begin with in S1.

The only thing that might matter from this season is whether Mika does find out the truth of Sibyl, and if she does whether that makes her an enforcer or a stalwart Inspector like Akane. If it's the latter, then you might still be able to write the season off depending on whether they bring it up in the movie or not. If it's the former, there'd be a small disconnect between s1 and the movie, but not a huge one.

Yeah, pretty sad that that's the only impact of this entire season in regards to the s1 to movie connections.

Domonkazu 2014-11-28 17:20

Gattai brain's version rofl

FlareKnight 2014-11-28 18:48

Wow, so this season really doesn't matter.

Also my condolences to Mika. She has been a pain in the rear and frustrating. But at least she's tried the past few episodes to investigate and all that. I'm still more annoyed with Akane who knows evil is running their society but has decided to just keep doing her job and hope someone else deals with it.

Wandering Soul 2014-11-29 01:46

So this season really doesn't effect the movie.

Right when Mika shows some detective work, she ends up in that type of situation. I might feel bad for her if she wasn't about to dump everything on Akane before it all happened. I guess this does somewhat explain why Togane wants to paint Akane black.

keys.unlock.things. 2014-11-29 11:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlareKnight (Post 5352414)
I'm still more annoyed with Akane who knows evil is running their society but has decided to just keep doing her job and hope someone else deals with it.

Akane can't say anything with the system coz she knows that without the system, their current society would not survive. Chaos would ensue.

Kanon 2014-11-29 11:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by the one above all (Post 5352690)
So this season really doesn't effect the movie.

We don't know for certain yet. The trailer might be intentionally misleading. I doubt it, though. I'm guessing Urobuchi's involvement in this season extends only to making sure there is no contradiction with the movie. The movie affects the second season (as in, status quo must be maintained and no character Urobuchi is planning to use can be killed), not the other way around. It will be the true sequel to Psycho Pass, the one the original writer envisioned.

J the Drafter 2014-11-29 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanon (Post 5353118)
We don't know for certain yet. The trailer might be intentionally misleading. I doubt it, though. I'm guessing Urobuchi's involvement in this season extends only to making sure there is no contradiction with the movie. The movie affects the second season (as in, status quo must be maintained and no character Urobuchi is planning to use can be killed), not the other way around. It will be the true sequel to Psycho Pass, the one the original writer envisioned.

I imagine that the second season is using Urobochi's ideas, but that those ideas are being executed by the current writer. (Who, to be fair, was given very few episodes to both advance the plot and develop/expand the characters.) Thus, I imagine things like Kamui's backstory, Mika being cornered by the Toganes and being told the truth about Sybil, and Ginoza's newfound willingness to bend the rules are all Urobochi's thoughts, being interpreted and executed by the new writer, with far less episodes to work with than he needs. (I understand that the short amount of episodes can't explain all of this season's missteps, or the things people simply don't like, but it doesn't make telling the story easier.)

GDB 2014-11-29 15:53

Ginoza bending the rules had like, one scene in episode 1. That hardly counts as a plot point that needed to be addressed to the point that it made things difficult to convey properly. Especially since it was easy to tell at the end of s1 that he had changed and become more like Masaoka.

The issue with the other two is they spent too much time trying to be BLOOD AND GUTS and showing how horrible these people were while still having a clear Psycho Pass that when they finally got around to the plot, the season's already almost over. And in the meanwhile, they ruined Mika's character and spent almost no time on Kamui himself.

Arialle 2014-11-29 23:21

am i the only one who finds mika hot when her hair was let down....or is it just my imagination ran wild at that scene

Spectacular_Insanity 2014-11-30 02:11

Well, now. Shimotsuki was (un)surprisingly easy to break. I saw that coming a mile away.

That being said, didn't see the actual revelation of the episode coming. Well done twist there.

Anh_Minh 2014-11-30 03:05

I was right about the old woman being his mother. Despite her being so old. Mommy issues, it's always mommy issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R (Post 5351743)
Speaking of Mika, I agree with the idea of "I almost feel sorry for her". Mika finally showed some industriousness and skill directly related to her chosen profession, and it's a bit sad that this is a big part of what landed her in hot water. Still, her willingness to backstab Akane like this without discussing the matter with Akane at all is just nasty. There is a certain poetic justice to all of this landing Mika into her current predicament.

I do feel sorry for her, but I'd feel a lot sorrier if her industriousness had been directed at actually doing her job and not hurting Akane.

Irenesharda 2014-11-30 12:48

Well, that was an interesting reveal for Kamui. I guess that explains where Kirito got all his amazing god-like list of abilities from. If a guy had 184 people as part of him, along with his brain being made up of 7 other peoples brains, then it would be understandable that he is now extremely multi-talented. However, as everyone says, this has pushed the limit of the term "science-fiction" and even Dr. Frankenstein would have to look at this poor boy and ask "Why?" Was it really necessary to combine all of these people into one boy? It's super-obvious that this was never about saving his life, but some psychopathic mad scientist's twisted experiment. Dr. Togane made monster, and now that monster is trying to destroy her family's name and the system that it has supported.

Interestingly, they mention that it was only after Kirito had healed for a while and all the pieces had assimilated as one, that the system no longer recognized him. He became invisible to society. In a way, that makes him similar to Makishima, who also found himself unique and almost unseen by society, and from there his ideas were born, just like Kamui.

I could see the "Togane's mom is part of the Sybil System" coming, and like the others, I almost felt sorry for Mika. She finally did some good police work, however her desire to oust Akane led to her demise. As for Togane himself, it's now clear why a guy who had a CC of 769 at the age of ten was looked over by Sybil and that his mom even covered up his records. You have to wonder how many other criminals are "looked over" and their CCs covered up, if a member of Sybil desires it?

As for will all this count with the movie coming? Well, I think people are forgetting that way more people, especially in the general audience will watch the second season of the series in comparison to the movie. Also, anime watchers generally think more highly of the second season of a show, than they do a movie since movies many times tend to be independent stories that are separate from the series as a whole. Now many of us, that now all about the background cast and crew and other information about this movie, might know of the movies importance, but most of those who watch Psycho-Pass won't especially in the west. The season, means something and is canon to the series, no matter what the movie does or doesn't do.

Also, you do realize that by the reveal of the psychologist being Kirito in holo form, this series has already affected the first season. It was shown in episode 1 or 2 that this psychologist was the same one that was treating Gino back in the first season. That means that the man we were seeing all that time in season one was actually Kirito, and that he's been putting his plan into place even all the way back then.

We'll see how this will all go for Mika too. I think we're going to have a mature and knowledgeable inspector or enforcer out of her by the end of the series. I'm kind of glad she's going to learn the truth, it can give her an idea of what's really going on out there and not just walking around with blinders on.

White Manju Bun 2014-12-01 11:46

Man epi 7 was so good, this epi was just awful, minus the last 3 minutes. I really wish Togane had just shot Mika with the dominator. Though I will say if they show her the brain room I do kinda want to see her reaction to it.

FateAnomaly 2014-12-01 23:20

I doubt she will survive the season.

Geburah 2014-12-03 17:09

In fact she does since she appears on the movie, unless the movie occur between season 1 and 2

GDB 2014-12-03 17:26

Movie's set 4 years after season 1, while season 2 is set 18 months after season 1.

darkchibi07 2014-12-04 19:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by ookamigirl (Post 5358757)
#9


Good episode.

I'm kind of curious why you think that. The way they portrayed Togane "evil" is borderline cliche and that whole mansion scene was meaningless shock-value.

SJCrew 2014-12-06 12:18

It took me a while to get to this episode. I really haven't been in the mood for any dark psychological crime thrillers lately, but a reviewer that I respect has been intent on trashing this show, so I have taken it upon myself to watch it to see what all of the fuss is about. I'm actually enjoying myself thinking about all of the possibilities of what can happen next while absorbing the details of the plot as they come. They making some bold moves in the narrative, which I can understand not everyone likes; playing it safe and doing the same things they did last season would have made everyone happier, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm still taking my time processing the information this episode has given while giving myself a chance to discuss some minor points while they're still on my mind. Speaking of minor, I really thought Mika was onto something while she was typing her report, but she just had to go on about Akane. :heh: She's still playing the game like it's high school (which, again, brings to light her immaturity and her sheltered life in the all-girls academy). I can see why some people may be annoyed with her, especially Akane fans, but she's really so insignificant to the plot right now that all she does is illicit eyerolls from me.

The real players in this game are Akane, the Toganes, and Kamui. Everyone else a minor piece completely dependent on the moves they make, including Mika.

One major question I have now is: what do the Toganes stand to gain from revealing the true nature of the Sibyl System to the world? Shouldn't this be kept under wraps for only relevant parties to know? And if using Mika as a reaction test is any indicator of what's to come when the average citizen finds out (read: mass freakage), will they reconsider their plan?

I wanted to go straight to Episode 9, but I may have to rest after all of that. Shit is getting really dark.

thundrakkon 2014-12-06 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by SJCrew (Post 5361257)
One major question I have now is: what do the Toganes stand to gain from revealing the true nature of the Sibyl System to the world? Shouldn't this be kept under wraps for only relevant parties to know? And if using Mika as a reaction test is any indicator of what's to come when the average citizen finds out (read: mass freakage), will they reconsider their plan?

I'm glad you're enjoying the show and taking in the plot as you watch it.

I think that they believe that Sibyl eventually will need to be revealed. It's hard to keep it a secret forever, so the inevitable will happen. If the Mika experiment fails, they will try a different approach. They will probably keep experimenting until they find a suitable way to reveal themselves.

GDB 2014-12-06 18:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrakkon (Post 5361710)
I think that they believe that Sibyl eventually will need to be revealed.

They said as much at the end of season 1.

heva la luna 2014-12-07 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by thundrakkon (Post 5361710)
I think that they believe that Sibyl eventually will need to be revealed. It's hard to keep it a secret forever, so the inevitable will happen. If the Mika experiment fails, they will try a different approach. They will probably keep experimenting until they find a suitable way to reveal themselves.

I agree they need to reveal it eventually. While they hide themselves they are at a disadvantage: someone else might make the revelation before Sybil and distort that information in a way that is not beneficial to the System.

If the System could manage to make the people accept it, it will truly become invincible. But in popular fiction at least Distopia will always loose so...I'm afraid Sybil will eventually go down.


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