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-   -   The Philosophy of Code Geass (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=64670)

Dann of Thursday 2008-04-07 22:21

Or that could not be the case either.

Onizuka-GTO 2008-04-08 06:01

...or maybe the real reason is that we should just buy pizza and collect token for cheese-kun and limited edition CG merchandise.

yes. i have a strong gut feeling this is the underlining philosophical message. eat well from a 18" cheese stuff deep base pizza will stimulate a healthy well-being for all.

being hungry while musing deep ideas is bad for you.

pizza hut is your friend. call now.

*logs online*

*_*

Marioshinobi 2008-04-08 06:15

I don't think we should bring up the Emperor...

He hasn't been on that much to even define his personality or how he even thinks. He's made speeches(Could have been easily biased because...duh, he needs to rev up the Nobles and Barons)

I also doubt he would be using Lelouch as a Successor, but the fact he married a Commoner such as Marianne due to her being an excellent Pilot could be a sign that he was trying to aim for a stronger Son -FAILURE, Lelouch can't even dig a hole to save his life(seriously, I could see him dying without food in the island arc cause he failed to dig a hole)

We also have no idea what the King Desires, or what Rangarok/Ragnares or whatever he's searching for. Obviously he wishes to find it first using his Geass Ruins, Clovis himself wished to gain power using C.C. and Schneizel attempted to use the ruins at Kamenija, whoever does Succeed the Emperor will obviously take his place with the 'Ragnarok' plan or whatever.

He only watches Lelouch because he is about the only son(Game chars don't count) Who have received Geass. He's the best candidate to succeed him if he does get beaten, simply due to the fact Lelouch's power and he also assumes his mind is evil(He laughs during Euphie's scene and says " That fool actually did it! "; Somehow I think Lelouch moved up on his book due to it, simply because he didn't see it coming and is proud of his idiotic son killing off his siblings)

Dann of Thursday 2008-04-08 06:18

I'd honestly say that the whole thing with Lelouch would be secondary in his mind with the plan he has been working on. If his master plan involved making Lelouch the successor than that would actually be pretty disappointing.

KrimzonStriker 2008-04-08 12:41

And pretty pointless to bring in Geass at all. There's something deeper here, I can feel it, you don't go saying stuff like 'it's tied to the very existence of mankind' or 'it has the power to either create or destroy the world' for something as tangible and mortal as a mere throne.

SoldierOfDarkness 2008-04-08 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday (Post 1519081)
I'd honestly say that the whole thing with Lelouch would be secondary in his mind with the plan he has been working on. If his master plan involved making Lelouch the successor than that would actually be pretty disappointing.

Actually it really depends on if the Emperor is truly his ultimate opponent.

Most of the misery was bought on by unknown forces (Which Marianne and C2 may have been involved in) and the Emperor simply stuck by to his policy. That and you really can't expect him to show any weakness either.

For all intents and purposes his ultimate opponent could be Schenzeil(Which I am thinking he will be), C2 or even Marianne:heh:

Dann of Thursday 2008-04-08 13:45

Well, Schneizal was created with the thought of making Lelouch a nemisis, so he will probably be the person that Lelouch clashes with the most.

C.C. and Marianne actually being somewhat sinister seems quite possible as well. It would be incredibly cruel, but that makes it all the more likely. They may not be on the Emperor's side, but they may not be much better than him in what they are willing to do.

Onizuka-GTO 2008-04-08 18:26

personally i think the Emperor before did not think much of him at all, it was only after his attempt as Zero that is now making him interested in him.

i think the Emperor will play around with him, i think the current situation was left to the authorities.

They were ones to use him as bait for C.C. obviously the Emperor did not even tell them the truth about C.C. the target they were aiming for.

the fact is, if lulu/zero survives the attempts on his life by the Emperor then i think he will seriously consider him an heir.

I'm certain he holds true to what he preaches, and that he would never hand his throne over to anyone who cannot kill him.

its the ultimate Darwinism. Law of the jungle.

Witacume 2008-04-29 17:06

Well I had no idea where to post this thus I posted in philosophy since philosophy kind of incorporates everything :P. This post will look in the different ideas and thought process of different characters in this series.

First off Lelouch. In order to understand what lelouch is doing is to understand why he is starting rebellion to start off. I am not trying to Justify what he does or saying what he is doing is okay. I am simply stating his goals. Goal 1a. is to make a peaceful world for Nunally. Goal 1b. to take revenge for his mother Death. It is obvious at this point to say Goal 1a. has completely taken over 1b. Example 1 will be his willingness to abandon his plan for vengeance to get Nunally. His self reflection in Season 1 last episode is evidence to this. He realizes why is he fighting this lonely war if he is not with Nunnally at the end. The next step in the Analysis is how he plans to achieve this goal.

Destruction or Deconstruction (Path of Carnage). Lelouch finds the current form of Government oppressive and a terrible system. I believe we can agree that Brittanian is not the ideal form of Government. It oppresses the weak which is one of the main reasons he dislikes it. Oppression of the weak makes people Nunnally not worth very much in the world as she is weak. So Lelouch plan from the very beginning and reiterates with Urabe in Episode 2 R2 is to destroy britannian. Specifically the way he wishes to achieve this is by taking down the Emperor. This is proven by the Fact that constantly talks about Emperor and wishes to take him down.

This Destruction turns the world into Chaos. The Chaos that is war. This motif is not new. We can go back to the times Babylon and talk about Myth of Marduk. As Marduk destroys Kingu and out of the Ashes he creates Mankind. This idea is called Combat Myth, and it is talk about throughout antiquity. The reason I drawing from here is because Lelouch is Marduk. Marduk tries to free the other gods from serving. Thus Out of the chaos of Kingu he creates humanity. This idea of Chaos turning into creation is also found in the Hebrew Text of Genesis 1:1-2. The point being Lelouch way of getting his goal is thrusting the world into Chaos and rebuilding from that chaos at the end.

Since we talk about what his goal is and how he plans to get there one finally comes to idea of is it right. As said earlier there is no right answer to this question as this dealís with a lot of grey. One must not put our own ideals onto him. For instance His priorities are wrong. Well for you maybe. Lelouch priorties are as he sees fits. Do I wish for him to change? Yes! I would want him to embrace his comrades more (Kallen :D). This is Lelouch Rebellions not yours. Hopefully I put some perspective into why he does what he does. Again this can change as the story progresses but for right now it is like this. Next up is the Foil Suzaku but it is for another time.

Dean_the_Young 2008-04-29 17:22

Personally, I feel that the most unspoken philosophical point in Code Geass is how Zero is the perfect embodiment of Britannian ideals. Power, cunning, rule by virtue of results, the not so occasional back stabbing, everything.

Dann of Thursday 2008-04-29 17:25

So he's the embodiment of corruption and evil?

Dean_the_Young 2008-04-29 17:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dann of Thursday (Post 1567212)
So he's the embodiment of corruption and evil?

The Britannian ideals aren't the glorrification of corruption and evil, the Britannian ideals are the ones that are read out in class early in the series, the ideals of the Emperor. That the strong deserve to rule the weak, that the ends justify the means, that victory trumps morality. Lelouch lives up to what every Britannian noble aspires to be.

ashlay 2008-04-29 17:45

Except for that whole, you know, United States of Japan thing. Equality and Justice are the basically the antithesis of Britannian values.

Dean_the_Young 2008-04-29 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashlay (Post 1567251)
Except for that whole, you know, United States of Japan thing. Equality and Justice are the basically the antithesis of Britannian values.

Let's look at the United States of Japan and the Black Knights, shall we? They are led by a man who's only justification for leading is that he delivers results. He has no other legitimacy other than that he is the smartest, most cunning one of them all. The moment he steps out of the picture, the United States of Japan topples like a tower of dominoes.

The United States of Japan's claims to justice are, at best, tenous. One of the original Black Knights prepares to shoot the student council for having the nerve to say that Zero would protect them. Zero holds the exact same Student Council members hostage as a tool against Suzaku. Where has the USJ shown that it has any more justice than Britania? That it accepts a handful of Britanians? Britannia takes nonbritannians as well when they follow the ideals of Britannia as expressed by the Emperor.

And that's not even getting into Zero's hypocracies as to what he's done while spouting off that USJ bs...

Anh_Minh 2008-05-02 07:49

Well, the USJ are mostly there to gather people around him. If he thought being openly "evil" would bring him more power than pretending to serve justive, he'd be kicking puppies and raping kittens on live TV.


I don't think Lelouch even is that much philosphically opposed to Britania's way of doing things. It's personal. Britania's destroyed his happiness twice, and is a threat to his sister, so he wants to destroy it. Unlike his father, he sympathises with the weak, but if not for Marianne's death and his fall from grace, he wouldn't care enough to do much about it.

Onizuka-GTO 2008-05-02 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean_the_Young (Post 1567271)
One of the original Black Knights prepares to shoot the student council for having the nerve to say that Zero would protect them. Zero holds the exact same Student Council members hostage as a tool against Suzaku.

And that's not even getting into Zero's hypocracies as to what he's done while spouting off that USJ bs...

your wrong.

Zero was the one who pledge the student council safety, but it was Lulouch who held them hostage against Suzuku.


You might say it's the same thing, but it's not.

Zero's agenda is to free Japan, protect the weak and up hold justice. So far he has done this.

However lulu is prepared to do anything to topple the Empire and to protect his sister with whatever means possible.

In the eyes of the people they are two separate individuals, thus what they see of each (or not see, as is the case for one)

they both have largely remind true to there goals.

And definitely have not done anything to meet the same level of hypocrisy as Suzuku has managed to do.

Obviously, when you know the man behind the mask, you tend to associate the action of one, to the other personality, thus creating the illusion of hypocrisy.

Avisch 2008-05-02 23:04

Quote:

However lulu is prepared to do anything to topple the Empire and to protect his sister with whatever means possible.
Well. I don't think that would include intentionally killing off innocent people or his friends. Suzaku is the exception because he's directly opposed to Lelouch. But Lelouch would not kill off Milly, Rival, or Shirely. He does care about them (episode 3 of R2 helps solidify this).

Vallen Chaos Valiant 2008-05-03 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avisch (Post 1572610)
Well. I don't think that would include intentionally killing off innocent people or his friends. Suzaku is the exception because he's directly opposed to Lelouch. But Lelouch would not kill off Milly, Rival, or Shirely. He does care about them (episode 3 of R2 helps solidify this).

To be exact, Lulu place the defeat of the Empire secondary to every single person who is on his side or any neutral individual who he knows personally. He would literally plan around everyone. Empire has to go, but only under his own rules.

Austin1 2008-05-03 12:28

Lelouch doesn't really give a shit about freeing Japan he is just using the Japanese to his advantage so he can accomplish his goals. He is only appearing as a hero of Justice to get more and more support from the community. He is freeing Japan not because he really cares about freeing the Japanese but so that he has a loyal force he can use to achieve his own goals.

Also, yea he does care about his friends at school he is not a heartless bastard but he does follow the exact ideals of the Emperor. Oh, but he does hate when the strong pick on the weak because of his sister's condition.

SteelRat 2008-05-03 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austin1 (Post 1573304)
Lelouch doesn't really give a shit about freeing Japan he is just using the Japanese to his advantage so he can accomplish his goals. He is only appearing as a hero of Justice to get more and more support from the community. He is freeing Japan not because he really cares about freeing the Japanese but so that he has a loyal force he can use to achieve his own goals.

Also, yea he does care about his friends at school he is not a heartless bastard but he does follow the exact ideals of the Emperor. Oh, but he does hate when the strong pick on the weak because of his sister's condition.

Looks like Lelouch is a pretty complicated guy. Full of contradictions, since he's young
he thinks he knows what he wants but that might change when he grows up a bit...


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