Welcome to the discussion thread for Aquarion EVOL, Episode 20.
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HimeaSaito
2012-05-13 12:00
Oh wow!!! Spada can use Luna's archery attack!!!???
mixordia
2012-05-13 12:05
...
Spoiler for Episode 20:
First, Amata is a lead character totally without charisma, he has only good scenes with Mikono or Zessica. Neither his reunion with his mother and his possible father made me think he’s a big deal.
Only seeing the episode with subtitles we can understand what happened, it was a lot of talk and little action … but, the important thing is the reunion of Mikono with Fudo, who finally came up too fast…
The great mistake of Aquarion EVOL, was to treat the secondary characters as main characters, all had more development than the lead characters, which was a mistake, huge, because now there remain a few episodes and there will be no time to properly develop any of them and if that happens will be very fast.
This rush of Andy behind the MIX pulled me out patience, the groans of Yunoha too. Neither the Akino song encouraged me in this episode. Yes, I’m a little disappointed because I expected much more.
At least they found that women become men… and they manage to escape before Zessica and Yunoha start wearing pants.
mayumi
2012-05-13 12:22
Spoiler:
a rather boring episode? i don't know unless there were some great revelations in regards to reincarnation. so ZEN = GEN confirmed? But then why would silvia hate him? silvia has never thought of gen as anything but a weirdo even a pervert.
mikono with silvia's stance in fudo's shirt. not sure i dig it. cherubim of touma's returns. is kagura the one riding it? if so its rather ironic that if he is apollo reincarnation he is riding touma's machine.
the feather of apollonius is back. who is going to awaken their true memories?
if zen is really gen, then touma is likely mikage.
Vena
2012-05-13 12:23
Ya...
Spoiler for Spoiler:
- Izumo is not Amata's father.
- ALL women died 14 years ago.
- ZEN = GEN
- Touma cherubim next episode.
- Shrade may or may not be dead.
- MIXY is left behind, and is a 100% husband.
- Vega getting flowered by Mykage.
- Mikono, after utterly pointless montage of searching for Fudo, will become next Fudo.
This was a revelations episode for the characters, so it was a tad boring for us, the omniscient viewers...
mayumi
2012-05-13 12:32
i would guess from this point on the reincarnations are going to get even more obvious, which probably means there really are no twists anymore.
ZetaAEUG
2012-05-13 13:33
Eh, revelations episodes are boring now? I'm glad that they resolved some issues with the plot in this ep and I do hope they continue doing so and focus solely on the main plot and main characters from now on.
Shinji103
2012-05-13 13:50
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZetaAEUG
(Post 4158735)
and focus solely on the main plot and main characters from now on.
Not likely, since we obviously still need a conclusion on the Andy/Mix issue.
Zuul
2012-05-13 13:55
Spoiler for Episode 20:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixordia
(Post 4158611)
...
First, Amata is a lead character totally without charisma, he has only good scenes with Mikono or Zessica. Neither his reunion with his mother and his possible father made me think he’s a big deal.
I disagree. He only has good interactions with Andy. I don't see the appeal of his grovelling in front of Mikono or hurting Zessica's feeling (though in this case, it's not really his fault much a nasty side effect of the completelly pointless Zessica love drama.)
Quote:
The great mistake of Aquarion EVOL, was to treat the secondary characters as main characters, all had more development than the lead characters, which was a mistake, huge, because now there remain a few episodes and there will be no time to properly develop any of them and if that happens will be very fast.
The great mistake is that the main romance sucks. It has been cute in the first episode and after that it has been dragged in the most awful ways possible.
The side characters are fine. I don't think it's not about giving too much time to the side characters it's about using poorly the one devoted to the mains.
I will also never forgive them for the pointless Zessica drama as well.
And last but not least.Presenting Appollo/Sylvia's promise of love as a nasty destiny to overcome. What the fuck is wrong with the writters....:uhoh:
Quote:
At least they found that women become men… and they manage to escape before Zessica and Yunoha start wearing pants.
I feel a little sad that Zessica didn't turn into a man. It would have fitted her personnality more. And she would have been one hell of a charismatic sexy man.
What's the deal with all those flowers at the end ??
queenSwild
2012-05-13 13:57
Spoiler:
Wow.. Amata finally finds his mom.. I love how all the shouting he's doing doesn't really match his facial expressions at the end.. And he acts like she can hear him in her little coma state. :P
Gen was watching Mikono the whole time? Am I the only one who found the little montage with him basically copy and pasted into Mikono's searching sequence hilarious? And we found out something that was completely obvious since the beginning. GEN=ZEN? Who would've thunk it? :P.. Sucks to be the people who were overthinking it saying Fudo= Toma, Fudo=Apollo...I'm guessing that the other reincarnations will be rather obvious as well.
Amata really needs to learn how to fight. I'm tired of seeing him curbstomped everytime he's outside of Aquarion. Andy on the otherhand is being quite badass, he curbstomped every person who chelledged him. Amata could really learn a thing or two from him. I'm sure he has enough badass to share.:)
Since I can't second half of the episode for some reason I guess I'll comment more latter.
Zuul
2012-05-13 14:23
Quote:
Originally Posted by mayumi
(Post 4158650)
i would guess from this point on the reincarnations are going to get even more obvious, which probably means there really are no twists anymore.
I'm still expecting some WTF shoking twist on the reincarnation to entertain me... :heh:
Winged_Memories
2012-05-13 14:24
My first reaction to this episode was "LOLOLOLOLOL" at Amata when he banged his head on the glass of the pod Alicia is in...and in regards to the flowers at the end...isn't it similar to when Toma in Sousei No Aquarion sent flowers and they started growing on people and making them sleep...but I must say those flowers have mutated over the 12,000 years because damn they are HUGE!!!!...and I don't think Mikono hates Zen, or else why would she be looking for the guy and she didn't talk like she hated him...also her Zen outfit in the preview LOL...maroon is just not your colour, sorry Mikono
mixordia
2012-05-13 15:00
Spoiler for Episode 20:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul
(Post 4158769)
He only has good interactions with Andy.
The great mistake is that the main romance sucks.
Andy doesn't belong to the main cast, so it's irrelevant, at least in my opinion the interaction between them as friends... this would happen one way or another.
The romance just sucks because the main characters are not developed well and suddenly we're going for six more episodes where everything must be explained and developed, for not to end in a horrible way... Now tell me, you think that in the six episodes the writers will do a great job and end this anime in a good way? After all that we have seen... ???
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon
(Post 4158869)
This show has somehow become extremely terrible.
I agree. I'm very sad about it. I always liked Sousei, I didn't expect to get so disappointed with EVOL.
queenSwild
2012-05-13 15:00
Mikono doesn't hate Zen, she probably just doesn't like the way he does things sometimes. Like when he orders her friends to bury themselves without explanation. How he knows everything but he doesn't let anyone else know anything. He could have solved all of this crap by letting every know what's going on instead of leaving it to Crea and his little donut analogies. :/ I'd be a little pissed too if I was in Mikono's shoes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixordia
(Post 4158874)
Spoiler for Episode 20:
Andy doesn't belong to the main cast, so it's irrelevant, at least in my opinion the interaction between them as friends... this would happen one way or another.
Spoiler:
Andy being in the supporting cast makes main characters like Amata look bad. Watch Amata bang his head on Alicia's glass pod and shout like there's no tomarrow while Andy's being a beast with his manly roars and going after his girl. Watch Amata get his ass whipped by an old dude while Andy's curbstomping everyone in his way. Amata really needs to get his ass in gear. :/
Finally finished watching the second half. They got out of Altair surprisely fast. So fast that it seemed like a waste of time. The mission was a complete failure. MIX and Alicia weren't rescued so I guess they're heading back sometime soon. :/ Meh.
On the bright side it looks like Mikono will have a power up next episode. Only to be interupted by Kagura who has been used as a cliffhanger for the fifth time, so you know he's gonna interupt something important. That's how it always happens with a Kagura cliffhanger. :/
Maximillionus
2012-05-13 16:14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena
(Post 4158639)
Ya...
Spoiler for Spoiler:
- Izumo is not Amata's father.
- ALL women died 14 years ago.
- ZEN = GEN
- Touma cherubim next episode.
- Shrade may or may not be dead.
- MIXY is left behind, and is a 100% husband.
- Vega getting flowered by Mykage.
- Mikono, after utterly pointless montage of searching for Fudo, will become next Fudo.
This was a revelations episode for the characters, so it was a tad boring for us, the omniscient viewers...
Spoiler for mikono:
Do you mean Mikono will be the next Fudo or fudo is the next fudo? seems kinda strange. Is that why she knows him from the past because she is him reincarnated. Think I'm getting ahead of myself. Would make the whole donuts thing make sense. She is suppose to "connect" everyone. and it's not like Silvia from the first season was that role. idk guess ill wait for subs like a noob
queenSwild
2012-05-13 17:15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximillionus
(Post 4158965)
Spoiler for mikono:
Do you mean Mikono will be the next Fudo or fudo is the next fudo? seems kinda strange. Is that why she knows him from the past because she is him reincarnated. Think I'm getting ahead of myself. Would make the whole donuts thing make sense. She is suppose to "connect" everyone. and it's not like Silvia from the first season was that role. idk guess ill wait for subs like a noob
Spoiler:
It was revealed this episode that Zen Fudo = Gen Fudo. I think he's refering to the fact that Mikono will probably become more like him. I mean, look at the preview, she's even wearing his jacket. Also judging from the preview, I think Mikono will learn about her past life and like Fudo, will probably help the others become more knowledgeable about theirs too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena
(Post 4158639)
Ya...
Spoiler for Spoiler:
- Izumo is not Amata's father.
- ALL women died 14 years ago.
- ZEN = GEN
- Touma cherubim next episode.
- Shrade may or may not be dead.
- MIXY is left behind, and is a 100% husband. - Vega getting flowered by Mykage.
- Mikono, after utterly pointless montage of searching for Fudo, will become next Fudo.
This was a revelations episode for the characters, so it was a tad boring for us, the omniscient viewers...
Spoiler:
Just realized what you meant by that by watching the end of the episode again. For some reason it just didn't connect. DAMN YOU MYKAGE! That beautiful city is completely ruined! UGH! But that confirms that Kagura is on Vega, but he's pretty far from Fudo & Mikono who are on a boat to who knows where.:/ Wonder how the rest will react to their entire city being flowered. And I wonder if it reached NEO Deava.
kuromitsu
2012-05-13 18:07
I didn't think this episode was boring at all. Sure, the premise was kind of ruined since we already knew everything from last episode, but otherwise there was enough fun stuff to keep me entertained.
Spoiler for ep 20:
So like, where are Amata's wings recently?
lol random JinxYunoha bit. Sorry Yunoha, I think Jin was just an otaku. ^^;; Eh, I don't have anything against this pairing, but Jin is already dead so why can't they use the time spent on this to do something about the main characters? :/
LOOOOL so it's not just their body that changes, it's their entire personality? XDDDD Why do I feel this is just so they can make otaku go dokidoki hearing Yunoha talking in a male register? ^^;;
And apparently Alisia does somehow power Altair through Ianthe? At least it seems so.
Mikono the Master Detective. XD And as always, lol Fudou. XDDDDD I've always been by your side... OH GOD, YOU'RE SUCH A CREEP XDDDDD Fudou Zen, indeed! And Christ, he's Fudou-myouou!! XDDDDD A honest-to-god deity! XD This explains many things, though... Damn, they needed Fujiwara Keiji for this role. It wouldn't have worked with anyone else. XD
So we learn the Truth that we already knew. OK, but I still want to know why "Igler" (or however you spell it). Also, I hope that this curse of Eve will be more important than to be used for just this gimmick, because if not they've just wasted a record amount of time.
BOY'S GATTAI XDDD But of course we don't get to see the spiritual orgasms, damn it. Shrade is a boss. That simple. But hear me, you can't die until you get home to Cayenne!
Oh, so Amata's dad is actually important. Well, well. Who is it, if not Izumo? Fudou? The guy who played Apollon? ...Mykage? XDD (Though I guess it's possible that Izumo was gearing up to a "Luke, I'm your father" moment there...)
Also, as much as I like Andy IMO they went waaaay overboard with him in this episode, especially considering that the viewers have known from the first moment that his quest was futile. :/ Him and Mix getting a main hero & heroine treatment aside, couldn't they just let Amata figure the way out? -_- Or at least let him do something? I really hope Amata will finally get to be a main character in the next episode because ffs this is getting ridiculous.
Next week: Zessica kisses Amata (come on, it's so obvious), and Mikono channels Fudou for whatever reason. Also, OMG TOUMAAAAA!!!!'s cherubim
miketyson
2012-05-13 18:16
Slow and boring despite having a fair amount of stuff happening. It leaves me back feeling unsure where the show's going and not in a good way.
Spoiled commentary:
Spoiler for ep20:
About the only thing I found all that interesting was that brief flash of how Mykage'd really messed stuff up in that neighborhood back on Vega. It was either Mykage's doing or it was Kagura's powers going berserk and reversing that area back to a state of nature.
I have some fresh speculation but I'm not even that motivated to post it. This wasn't a bad episode, it was just more of a breather and nothing else.
kuromitsu: about the dad, I'm still not convinced it's *not* Izumo. I mean, doing the whole "about your dad, he's...IZUMO-SAMA" thing seems pretty tongue-in-cheek. Plus the way he phrased it made me think he was going to say "it's me" before he got cut off, but that's just me.
In re: the curse, it just seems like it's going to wind up being Mykage's doing / the general phrase to cover "the phenomenon that was responsible for the cessation of new female births, the termination of existing females' lives, and so on...". Doesn't seem to be enough to build much more than that on top of it.
I'm excited for next week mostly because I want to see what happens next in the story, not because of anything that happened this week
kuromitsu
2012-05-13 18:28
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson
(Post 4159088)
Spoiler for ep20:
kuromitsu: about the dad, I'm still not convinced it's *not* Izumo. I mean, doing the whole "about your dad, he's...IZUMO-SAMA" thing seems pretty tongue-in-cheek. Plus the way he phrased it made me think he was going to say "it's me" before he got cut off, but that's just me.
Spoiler for Izumo:
We probably edited at the same time - I also think it's possible that he was trying to do a "Luke, I'm your father" moment and just got cut short by Spada.
By the way, Mikono and Fudou's reunion reminded me of something and I just remembered what...
It would've been fun if it played out like that...
Korps!
2012-05-13 18:49
Liked the part where Yunoha started talking funny, kinda Ika musume feel, that's it.
miketyson
2012-05-13 20:48
kuromitsu: yeah, looks like I caught you after you posted but before you posted your edit. Any clues on what show that is?
ars89
2012-05-13 21:35
Liked how Yunoha's speech was changing. So Amata couldn't hear the last part about his father. Looks like Mix is lost forever for Andy. Next ep looks good though.
HimeaSaito
2012-05-13 21:37
Amata is last puzzle piece to awaken the Solar Wings????
The curse of eve is where few strong Igura turn into men.....
mayumi
2012-05-13 21:46
eve story is from 24000 years ago or 12000 yrs? there is more to the apollonius-celiane story than we know of. if eve was celiane did she put that curse on altair or was eve touma :p
will we ever get any real back story of amata's mom and zessica's past? atleast zessica seems to know that mikage expects something in return for opening the gate. i hope she can resits whatever mind trolling he is going to do on her. i hope.
It would be something if mikono past life put the curse on altair that effects amata's mother and mix's present condition. As well as all women on altair that died.
Maximillionus
2012-05-13 23:04
idk if Alicia isn't the "rare igura" who decieded that there was this supposed "rare Igura" that could not be effected by the curse (probaly mykage). And since all the other girls who didn't die turned into men. So I'm speculating Alicia has an element power of her own so she isn't affected by the Curse but instead put into a Comma. Or I could be wrong but seems strange eh, why is she the one exception that didn't die or turn into a boy and its not a normal comma because she hasn't aged a single minute since she left Amata like 10 plus years previous.
I still have the opinion that Izumo is Amata's father because unless he isn't I don't see why the need for the dramatic cut off and if Izumo isn't obviously he isn't important to the story, only for background of Amata.
Zaresh
2012-05-13 23:17
Well, besides the classic "I'm your father", I can guess 3 valid reasons for making a dramatic cut at that point:
- "Your father was an Altair girl that turned into a man."
- "Your father was the culprit who bring out the curse."
- "Your father died because "whatever".
And of course, it still can be:
- "Your father wasn't human" or something like that. "Your father was the Aquarion" could be hilarious.
ZetaAEUG
2012-05-14 00:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by HimeaSaito
(Post 4159340)
Amata is last puzzle piece to awaken the Solar Wings????
The curse of eve is where few strong Igura turn into men.....
The last puzzle piece is the legendary aquarion, which hasn't been located yet.
sky black swordman
2012-05-14 00:47
What this about Zessica kissing Amata in the mext episode?
I saw in one of the post on page 1.
kk2extreme
2012-05-14 00:51
I think Mikage is Amata's farther...
I was right about Altair changing women into men...
LastOrder
2012-05-14 00:57
I loved the boys gattai. The new move Shrade pulled off was pretty awesome. And I found it funny, seeing Yunoha talk like a guy.
Andy describing Mix was also pretty funny. "Big bangs" Haah. Good episode, but damn it I really wanted to see if I was right about Izumo being Amata's father. D:
pingva
2012-05-14 01:28
Nothing interesting happened. I know it was needed. I only liked Yunoha talking like a man and the robot action.
Next episode I see Amata in the theatre from the 1-2 episodes and kiss obviously refers to Zessica's promise to Mykage, but I'm the most excited for Toma's Cherubim.
hoarfrost
2012-05-14 01:32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Korps!
(Post 4159130)
Liked the part where Yunoha started talking funny, kinda Ika musume feel, that's it.
At first I thought I was watching troll subs. So they did that to make her speech pattern seem cruder and more manly?
Mangaka-chan
2012-05-14 01:42
MIX is now a guy and from the looks of it will remain so for a while. =_= Honestly, I wasn't expecting that, but at least they treated the change with due seriousness. I actually kind of like the fact that it wasn't just a one episode thing, or else it makes the whole "curse" seem like a joke.
Kagura's appearance continues to confound me. He appears, disappears, kicks some ass, gets shot, and disappears again. Other than the bit of development he got in episode 15 I feel like for a main character he's really underdeveloped. Maybe we'll finally get more back story/development on him in the next episode because right now I don't have much feelings for his character and if they develop him any later I might never care about him as a character.
kuromitsu
2012-05-14 01:45
Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson
(Post 4159261)
kuromitsu: yeah, looks like I caught you after you posted but before you posted your edit. Any clues on what show that is?
It's Jungle wa itsumo Hare nochi Guu. ^^;; One of my favorite shows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky black swordman
(Post 4159517)
What this about Zessica kissing Amata in the mext episode?
Next episode is titled "kiss." Look at Zessica in the preview. Draw the conclusion. (It may have something to do with Mykage's kiss to her, but yeah, just look at her. And if she's kissing anyone it will most likely be Amata.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoarfrost
(Post 4159578)
At first I thought I was watching troll subs. So they did that to make her speech pattern seem cruder and more manly?
I don't know about the subs but she did start using a male register. I guess it was meant to be moe, given that Zessica didn't do anything like that.
LoveMeKags
2012-05-14 01:46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mixordia
(Post 4158874)
Spoiler for Episode 20:
The romance just sucks because the main characters are not developed well and suddenly we're going for six more episodes where everything must be explained and developed, for not to end in a horrible way... Now tell me, you think that in the six episodes the writers will do a great job and end this anime in a good way? After all that we have seen... ???
I hate to say that I agree with this.
There is too much to be developed right now.
Spoiler for what to do...?:
I'll start with the obvious: the reincarnations. We still don't know who Apollonius and Celianne are. It's been five episodes since that halfway point they talked about. We've yet to figure it out. But that's not our fault. They keep morphing the characters around. For instance, Zessica was a prime candidate for Celianne with her abilities but her emotions and decisions lately have taken the opposite path. Meanwhile, we continue to go back and forth about the Amata and Kagura issue regarding Apollonius. THEN the writers put Kagura in Amata's old bedroom. Now there's a connection between them, arising that old suspicion of mine that they're the same person. Does this get anymore confusing!? Yes, apparently it does. In the shadows that we don't see beyond those "boring romance moments" that seem flat, Mikono is developing feelings towards Amata. What the hell? And yet... the only person who's true identity we've pretty much already confirmed is Mykage... (he's Touma, no doubt.)
Next comes the underdeveloped romance. It has fallen flat. So much that I have pulled away from all ships together with the exception of one that has already ended, Yunoha and Jin. For weeks, I've contemplated on whether or not I would even comment on an episode when it disappointed me. But I decided to keep my mouth shut about it because others did it for me.
Sadly, we don't understand the connections of characters that well yet. And with only six episodes left...? They ain't gonna pull this off unless they do a "big bang" like with Frontier and force everything into four completely serious episodes. However, I thought Frontier would show them that this doesn't work plot wise nor does it help justify how it should end. Which is the whole reason they had to make the movies... (or Kawamori felt they were needed.) But whilst that series only needed at the most three extra episodes, EVOL needs at least ten!
........this isn't gonna end well.
I know that the OS did this originally but at least there were hints the whole way. Also, the romance between Apollo and Sylvia, no matter how small it seemed, was started back in the first episode and developed quite nicely. Their attitudes reminded me of Inuyasha and Kagome with the bickering but like the other couple mentioned, it developed as it should. EVOL does not show this with either of the mains.
In my opinion, the secondary characters are doing fine so far.
Andy has developed his feelings for MIX fine so far, considering they are rarely shown. Yet there are mentions that they've hung out and when they are shown, they are almost always together or talking about one another. It is like Luca and Nanase's relationship here... we never saw the two together alone except for two or three episodes, yet he loved her. It's a strange way to tell a tale of romance but given that the mains are so underdeveloped, it is obvious they need more time.
My heart still goes out to Yunoha. She is faithful to Jin with all of her heart. It makes me so sad to see her still suffering over it inwardly. Her character is the only one in which has developed greatly. Whilst we rarely see her, when she is around, she is helpful if not brave, and going to Altair to assist in the rescue of MIX is proof. I love the romance that transpired between her and Jin. His character developed the romance quick yet smooth. I had no problem with them.
Um... regarding Shrade and Cayenne... I still have no idea what to think when it comes to these two odd balls. The writers don't seem to want them with any women. They have almost no time with any of the girls. They might be the first homosexual couple in Aquarion... unless I'm missing one. Since Andy and MIX come around after these two, they're gonna be the first couple. ....That is, unless something changes in the next six episodes... which I doubt it will.
Okay, here's where I really ramble regarding past episodes and this one.
Spoiler for excessive ramble about characters, development, romance, etc!:
I expected more out of Amata and Mikono by now! Her character was introduced much like Ranka, shy and bashful yet secretly brave and daring yet also funny, but she isn't anything like I'd hoped. She hasn't developed at all really. Though, compared to Zessica's current state, she is light-years better. I'm disappointed with her character. I still like tidbits of her personality, especially when it regards her duty to her friends and home, but otherwise, I've grown bored with her. The last episode revealed that Shu-Shu disliked Amata because Mikono likes him... but where is there proof of this? A crush, I can see... but considering that dragged on for twenty episodes... I doubt it is that serious to be seen as a 12,000 year love. And this all leaves me wondering where Kagura is in her mind. Though she worries about him, there appears to be no feelings for him otherwise. Strange...
I didn't expect much out of Amata to begin with. He seemed like a character who wasn't fit to be the male lead nor play the hero of the story. Though I had still hoped the romance would blossom instead.
This next part might make some of you laugh or snicker, but I Amata had quite the opposite effect on me than Alto did (first impressions). I had high hopes for Alto in the start of the series, as his character was developed enough to actually be a hero and male lead. Whilst some of that failed with how he handled the war and being dragged along by the plot via the writers, he still was an amazing male lead. He earned a place in my favorite character bin despite not choosing the female I'd hoped for (Ranka).
Meanwhile, Amata wasn't developed beforehand and continues to act like a child rather than a teenager. He fails time and again to actually take in reality like past male leads have. His only near revelation was raising the gun towards Kagura, but even then, he couldn't act as a male lead and be brave, rather, he went downhill from there and stepped back, allowing things to slide. This is why I don't see how he's developed feelings for Mikono. I also don't see him becoming a male lead anytime soon or taking initiative in this war going on. He seems like the type that would run.
Do you see how different my impressions of them (first and overall) are?
Though I defended Amata at first, after twenty episodes... it's kinda lost. I'm disappointed in his character and its development. That isn't his fault, I realize that and everyone should, it is the writers' fault. They felt he should be this way. And like fans, we just have to accept it.
I won't get really started on the Zessica bit except to say I didn't really expect a thing out of her from the start. Rather, I was shocked she was a main. Then again, when I first heard of Frontier in a video, Sheryl was only shown three times, so I thought she wouldn't be a main either... apparently, she was an important one. The ironic part is that Zessica is taking the completely opposite path of Sheryl. I'm actually sick of what the writers are doing so far to her. The drama and angst is just... it's bland at this point. One episode of this was enough but to let it just go on and on and on...
Anyway, I had to get that out, hope ya'll didn't mind. It's been about three to five weeks since my last comment, possibly even a month or two...:twitch:
kuromitsu
2012-05-14 02:48
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags
(Post 4159597)
<lots of stuff>
As much as I have big problems with the writing in this show, I don't think the situation is that bad... by which I mean, I still enjoy it, though they really need to get their act together if they want to make this worth my while.
As for the reincarnations, maybe it's just because I don't care about them, but I don't think not knowing them hinders the enjoyment of the show. I mean I thought trying to figure out who is who was supposed to be half the fun? In any case, as I've been saying from the beginning, the reincarnation identities is one of the biggest jokers in the writers' hands, they'd be stupid to play them too early instead of using it to confuse the viewers and make them watch the next episode to find out more.
Re: the romance...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags
(Post 4159597)
In the shadows that we don't see beyond those "boring romance moments" that seem flat, Mikono is developing feelings towards Amata. What the hell?
Why is that surprising? She's been developing feelings for him since episode 1. The only question ever was if Kagura would affect that in any way.
Anyway, I think all story and romance problems can be traced back to two simple issues called "DON'T IGNORE YOUR MAIN CHARACTERS" and "PACING AND PLANNING, EVER HEARD OF THOSE?" The first is something I see pretty often with anime/manga with a relatively large cast, where the writers want to develop everyone and get caught up in the secondary characters, to the point where they let the main characters be pushed in the background. (See the master: Kubo Tite, who at one point ignored his own main character for one and a half years.)
From this aspect Zessica is still the one doing the best out of the main characters, because she has received quite a lot of attention both while building up her character and her crush, and then in the recent episodes - of course it's up to debate whether that attention was good for her or not (or even enough since we still barely know anything about her aside of the fact that she loves Amata). Amata and Mikono have been getting flashes of importance that didn't seem to go anywhere - at least now Mikono is on the right way, but the writing still doesn't let Amata do anything which is getting ridiculous at this point (seriously, it's episode 20!). And Kagura... the less is said about him, the better. And obviously this affects the romance as well, because with the main characters out of focus it's just not getting the necessary amount of development and attention.
So basically, the writer doesn't seem to be able to handle so many characters and this is not a good thing for the story. (And it's not like this is a huge cast! Okada would have a heart attack if she was to tackle something like LoGH...)
And of course there's the other issue which doesn't need to be explained and is just plain bad writing.
Mangaka-chan
2012-05-14 03:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags
(Post 4159597)
Next comes the underdeveloped romance. It has fallen flat. So much that I have pulled away from all ships together with the exception of one that has already ended, Yunoha and Jin.
...
My heart still goes out to Yunoha. She is faithful to Jin with all of her heart. It makes me so sad to see her still suffering over it inwardly. Her character is the only one in which has developed greatly. Whilst we rarely see her, when she is around, she is helpful if not brave, and going to Altair to assist in the rescue of MIX is proof. I love the romance that transpired between her and Jin. His character developed the romance quick yet smooth. I had no problem with them.
I feel the same way actually. The Amata/Mikono/Zessica/Kagura relationship never worked for me (too much pussyfooting around), but the Jin/Yunoha pairing got me hook-line-and-sinker ever since the balcony scene. I found myself smiling when Yunoha mentioned she wanted to see the place where Jin was born, followed by a silhouette of Jin in episode 19. It's sad and bittersweet, but I'm glad Kawamori hasn't completely sidelined Jin and Yunoha's relationship just because Jin's dead. And heck, this is the first time I've shipped a pairing where one of the two lovers is dead.
That's saying something.
Zuul
2012-05-14 03:43
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu
(Post 4159654)
Re: the romance...
Why is that surprising? She's been developing feelings for him since episode 1. The only question ever was if Kagura would affect that in any way.
Anyway, I think all story and romance problems can be traced back to two simple issues called "DON'T IGNORE YOUR MAIN CHARACTERS" and "PACING AND PLANNING, EVER HEARD OF THOSE?" The first is something I see pretty often with anime/manga with a relatively large cast, where the writers want to develop everyone and get caught up in the secondary characters, to the point where they let the main characters be pushed in the background. (See the master: Kubo Tite, who at one point ignored his own main character for one and a half years.)
From this aspect Zessica is still the one doing the best out of the main characters, because she has received quite a lot of attention both while building up her character and her crush, and then in the recent episodes - of course it's up to debate whether that attention was good for her or not (or even enough since we still barely know anything about her aside of the fact that she loves Amata). Amata and Mikono have been getting flashes of importance that didn't seem to go anywhere - at least now Mikono is on the right way, but the writing still doesn't let Amata do anything which is getting ridiculous at this point (seriously, it's episode 20!). And Kagura... the less is said about him, the better. And obviously this affects the romance as well, because with the main characters out of focus it's just not getting the necessary amount of development and attention.
So basically, the writer doesn't seem to be able to handle so many characters and this is not a good thing for the story. (And it's not like this is a huge cast! Okada would have a heart attack if she was to tackle something like LoGH...)
And of course there's the other issue which doesn't need to be explained and is just plain bad writing.
I think it has nothing to do with the focus on the side character.
They started the Mikono/Amata pairing strongly and instead of harmonuously developping the thing from there and furtherng their relationship little by little, they completelly held it back if not regressed it for the sake of them to only get together in an official romantic relationship at the end.
If they wanted to do that, they should have gone by the old I hate you at first formula. Not do it with people who gets along well (under normal circumstances) and have the opportunity to interact a lot with nothing in their ways. Chouchou is a joke of an obstacle, seriously. And all those misunderstandings used as a mean to drag it even more were not endearing at all. It just makes Mikono looks like a bit of a bitch and Amata like a bit of a doormat.
And how can they even present the whole thing as a love triangle when Kagura has only got one opportunity to interact with Mikono in 20 episodes. Let me laugh.
I won't feel bad at all when their romance is going to get its crap end, as the first ED promised.
kuromitsu
2012-05-14 04:05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zuul
(Post 4159687)
I think it has nothing to do with the focus on the side character.
Actually, it has everything to do with the writing not focusing on the main characters and screwing up the pacing and planning. Putting the main characters being in a position to interact and then not having them interact in a significant way because that would hinder the plot is bad enough, but then pushing them into the background in order to focus on other characters (in this case Andy and Mix) is guaranteed to stifle their development, both on a characterization and romance level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mangaka-chan
(Post 4159681)
I feel the same way actually. The Amata/Mikono/Zessica/Kagura relationship never worked for me (too much pussyfooting around), but the Jin/Yunoha pairing got me hook-line-and-sinker ever since the balcony scene.
It doesn't hurt that the Jin x Yunoha pairing received a more intense push that the "AMZK" quadrangle ever had, specifically because they wanted Jin's death to have a punch.
Zuul
2012-05-14 04:21
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu
(Post 4159707)
Actually, it has everything to do with the writing not focusing on the main characters and screwing up the pacing and planning. Putting the main characters being in a position to interact and then not having them interact in a significant way because that would hinder the plot is bad enough, but then pushing them into the background in order to focus on other characters (in this case Andy and Mix) is guaranteed to stifle their development, both on a characterization and romance level.
In what we disagree. Maybe the lack of focus contributed to the lackluster relationship, but I still strongly think the chore of the problem is the fact the authors want them to hook up only at the very end , for whatever gain they think the story will get from it (more shipping, suspens, not spoiling an eventual reincarnation twist, whatever) and thus they are keeping them away in very artificial nerve-grating ways.
JinxYunoha was fine while getting a lot less focus.
The main problem is the dragging. More focus would mean the dragging being even more obnoxious and painful to the watcher.