Character Discussion - C.C
 

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things C.C related.
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Note: Please don't use this for the specific episode talk, there are already threads serving that purpose.

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what? are you serious? creating a discussion topic based on character?

This is not exactly anything new and is a pretty common practice in other subforums we have around here. Since technically there is no other place where to extensively discuss a certain character, creating character specific threads for series main characters has been practiced for a good while now. Moving on ..

Um this one is kind of tough. I mean we don't even know her real name and we are 26 episodes into the series. :heh:

C.C. is an immortal youth and has lived for hundreds of years. She constantly refers to herself as a witch, due to the fact she was more than likely hunted during the witch trial eras. She has been burned alive, tortured, crushed in the ocean, shot several times, but you can't kill her. She entered into a contract with Lelouch which we know nothing about only that she will tell Lelouch eventually and she must keep him alive.

Her attitude is arrogant, crude, critical, but also supportive at times, and is emotional when her humanity is discussed. She also loves pizza. It is also believed she can speak to the dead, and with others like her such as V.V. telepathically.

In 2006 she entered into a different contract with an asian named Mao. However, she eventually ditched him when he wasn't able to fulfill the contract.

The matter is much more complicated than that Blue, I'd say this is a case where the novel material is more than applicable. >_>

C.C.'s contract with Mao tells us a whole lot about her personality, which in many ways mirrors Lelouch's, even if we still don't know what her motivation is.

Well, the answer regarding her contract isn't going to be getting an answer anytime soon, though someone is going to bring it up. Lelouch never got an answer for when he asked her what the conditions were.

Regarding C.C., I'd say she still has her humanity and emotions but has experienced so much that a lot of it is buried deep within. She also needs that contract completed, which would make emotions a hindrence. Of course, she hasn't done an entirely good job doing that with Lelouch.

Someone on /m/ posted saying she was

That's random speculation. Could be true, but I doubt it.

I think it fits.

That name seems way too short to have fit with the lip movements. And I have seen plenty of speculation on her being a mythological figure that fit just as well as that one. Quite frankly, I think she was at one point a human, but became like she is somehow.

It isn't impossible, but highly unlikely right now. Who knows, I could be wrong though. Still, they aren't going to directly use mythology in this show except for small little references.

I still like the Elizabeth III theory as long as we're talking about wild speculation. :rolleyes:

I still don't think that it quite fits with the timeline, though if aspects of the history were lies than it could fit. I still can't figure out how she could become head of a country or why she would even want to.

No, if C.C. has some mythological figure connection it'll be within the Norse pantheon. It's within that group of myths that the Ragnorok story comes.

I'd agree that is she was a goddess of any sort, it would be from the Norse myths. I'd be surprised if they had her turn out to be a goddess though.

The number of lip movements is irrelevant.

Norio Wakamoto. :heh:

I don't see why she'd be norse in specific over greek. She could be a celtic or saxxon goddess to be closer to the britain-centric feel of Geass but they aren't well known. None of them really have all that much to do with Strife.

Plus, greek myths tend to be the most widely known therefore the best to use in a fairly mainstream show. Greek gods ten to be the most "Universal".

Maybe she's Tendou Souji's daughter.

HYPER CLOCK UP.

If that was the case then C.C. is forever doomed for the rest of her life because of who she is. Okay, let's say that this was the case. What would her wish be?

Again, if there is a goddess similar to the one you are talking about in the Norse myths than it could fit. They aren't going to randomly choose gods and goddesses from different cultures.

well, in the last part of R2 lelouch was thinking about having more power and she knew it, cus she kissed him when he finished thinking about it and told him about the power that was sealed within him.

and even if its speculation we can think that she or V.V implanted Lulu's thoughts if they are able to do it.

When C.C. makes the contract in R1 (as well as awakening lelouch in R2), she refers to Ragnorok. This is Norse mythology specific (at most spreading amongst Germanic people in Europe) in which the world is recreated with only a handful of their dieties surviving an apocalyptic war of Good vs. Evil.

That was the Emperor, not CC. And no one knows what the Connection/Union of Ragnarok is anyway, so it's not that related to this topic. :rolleyes:

Eris is an oft use character in general. Recent examples include having her as the villain of of a 2003 Sinbad film, and a character in the Grim Adventures of Billy and Mandy. She was also the villain of the first Saint Seiya film, and some other Disney production I can't remember.

She's not an obscure Goddess by any means, the Discordians see to that.

I can't think of any norse Goddesses that get that kind of exposure. I know it's a bit of a wild theory, but you're being a little silly.

The problem here is that RAGNAROK is a popular myth everyone and their ferret knows about so people are going to push it an say Oh I know Mythology :D. But there are a lot of similar strands in greek mythology.

>So, after all, there was not one kind of Strife alone, but all over the earth there are two. As for the one, a man would praise her when he came to understand her; but the other is blameworthy: and they are wholly different in nature.

>For one fosters evil war and battle, being cruel: her no man loves; but perforce, through the will of the deathless gods, men pay harsh Strife her honour due.

>She stirs up even the shiftless to toil; for a man grows eager to work when he considers his neighbour, a rich man who hastens to plough and plant and put his house in good order; and neighbour vies with his neighbour as he hurries after wealth. This Strife is wholesome for men. And potter is angry with potter, and craftsman with craftsman, and beggar is jealous of beggar, and minstrel of minstrel.

Eris was often depicted as having wings, as seen here. More than likely the bird like appearance of the Geass symbol is a throwback to this, if the theory is correct.

And then there's this:

>They(Polytekhnos and Aedon) claimed to love each other more than Hera and Zeus were in love. This angered Hera, so she sent Eris to rack discord upon them. Polytekhnos was finishing off a chariot board, and Aedon a web she had been weaving. Eris said to them, "Whosoever finishes thine task last shall have to present the other with a female servant!" Aedon won. But Polytekhnos was not happy by his defeat, so he came to Khelidon, Aedon's sister, and raped her. He then disguised her as a slave, presenting her to Aedon. When Aedon discovered this was indeed her sister, she chopped up Polytekhnos' son and fed him to him. The gods were not pleased, so they turned them all into birds.

I could probably support this theory better if I had my mythology book and Wikipedia wasn't so godawful terribly written.

>>In Nonnus' Dionysiaca, 2.356, when Typhon prepares to battle with Zeus:

Eris ('Strife') was Typhon's escort in the melée, Nike ('Victory') led Zeus to battle.

>Nike is seen with wings in most statues and paintings. Most other winged deities in the Greek pantheon had shed their wings by Classical times.

Given how late the image of Eris was; it seems Eris(Chaos) and Nike(Victory) were two of the only one to be depicted with wings.

R2's ending seems to make a big point of wings.

A lot of people don't realise that "angel wings" and angelic imagery didn't originate with Christian mythology.

A lot of shows like Code Geass often turn to mythology and classic works to adapt their storyline.



(end of copypasta from /m/).

I think the "Victory"(V.V., heh) leading the righteous valiant hero against the dark "monster" supported by a chaotic deity fits Code Geass a lot better than Ragnarok which is just trying to shoehorn things into other things. Except of course, things are actually kind of the wrong way around, which is fairly typical of anime like this.

What do those have to do with an anime made by a Japanese company like Sunrise? Or Taniguchi, Okouchi, etc.? >_>

Code Geass pulls elements from a lot of different myths. Lulu's Gawain, Suzaku "the betrayer"'s Lancelot, Schneizel's Avalon where Euphie fell. I don't think I need to point out where these come from. The Greek mythology will obviously have parallels drawn between it and the story much like the Arthurian mythology.

That's nice and all, but it has nothing to do with what I was asking. Just because she is a reletively well known goddess to some doesn't make her anymore likely to be an identity than anyone else.

I'm not being silly at all. Pretty much all the references to myths in this show were either Norse or the King Arthur myths and I doubt they are going to make true direct connections to them. There hasn't been any connections to Greek mythology at all and I think it would be rather random to start now.

I still am under the impression that she may have been a mortal at some point in her life, though I could easily be wrong.

It does, because a lot less people are going to shit bricks when they find out C.C. is Saria the Lesser, a small queen from Lichenstein.

This is not real life, it's an anime, and they play up what people know. Eris isn't as widely known as a lot of others, but she's still well known enough for someone who knows someone who's watching Code Geass to know.

I don't see where there are all that many norse references; except for the few that get thrown around in almost any fantasy series, or sci-fi series with fantasy elements.

And again, Greek Mythology is universal. Eris in particular transcends old pagan mythology being the figurehead of Discordianism. You use Linux? You know anyone that does? Get them to run the command "ddate". That's how much Eris pokes her nose into everywhere.

There haven't been any specifically "Greek" themes but we still have nearly half the series(at least, there could be an OVA, movie, etc., or even a third season).

How many people in Japan know who Eris is then? The point is, it doesn't matter how well known she may be.

There hasn't been a single reference to Greek mythology at one point in this series and it would be very odd to start with strong references like her being a goddess now.

And honestly, the myth references are for show. They haven't been shown to mean a thing.

Again, if that were the case what would her wish be?

For the record, who said the name was so important? If it was Kawaguchi, then I think we have reason to doubt it is that earth shattering.

Actually that's not true. Nina's KF is named "Ganymede". How this correlates to the story and the myth I can't see, but Greek mythology is here, even if in small doses only.

I expect this thread to get a lot of attention simply because we know NOTHING about C.C. other than her favorite food.

I honestly doubt any of the references are going to mean anything except perhaps the fact that ther term Ragnarok has a place of importance.

And we do know some things about her. Just not her origins or true name.

I wouldn't read too deeply in to the fact they muted out her name. I don't see why she must have some sort of god's name for them to do that, just because there have been some other arbitrary mythological references. Anime does this all the time without trying to imply any closer connections. "Cool" and relatively well known (are they in japan?) names with loose connections to thematics of a show is common practice.

If i wanted a symbolic reason for muting out the name i would go for the fact its a name of someone she is not anymore. Now she is CC and has her own agenda thats, apparently, more important to her than anything else. When that is fulfilled i wouldn't be surprised to learn her name, because her task as CC would be done.
That, and dramatic license of course.

Dann, you have to remember that many anime series has some lore into it from other cultues, religions, or different events in history.

You have to remember that, Dann.

Kittie Rose, that is a good theory about C.C. she could been a Goddess or maybe something else. For me, C.C. reminds so much of Yuuko from xxxHolic and TRC, they both have unbelievable powers, they are maybe much older then they look, and they are both consider witches (or been call as)
Yuuko - Far East or Dimension Witch
C.C. - Grey Witch

I find it significant (which of course doesn't necessarily mean that it is :eyespin:) that when Lulu first hears C.C.'s name, he seems shocked (I believe he rocks back away from her). By the time she fully wakes up, he's regained his composure, but I think it's likely that Lulu was quite familiar with whatever name she uttered. Maybe it was the name of a goddess, but ... that seems to me like it shouldn't shock Lulu that much, based on what he's already seen C.C. do.

(So Nina's KF is called Ganymede ... my mind boggles at the possible reasons for this :eyespin:)

I think I'd be shocked to actually hear that she had a real name. I never took it in the context that he was that familiar with it.

Mossy - the Ganymede was Marrianes KMF, Lelouchs mothers. Nina just so happened to have gotten her grubby lil mitts on it and turned it into a doomsday devie.

With regards to the Elizabeth theory, I have since looked deeper into it and the chronology.... is interesting.

Its possible that the USA existed, briefly for a decade or 2 before Elizabeth came in and ousted them. I have noticed that there is a general consensus that C.C was present during the rebbelion, all I have seen points to her having known Benjamin Franklin and he whose first name eludes me Washington.

Since Franklin defected, he could have been the one on Elizabeths side when she arrives in North America with refugees. Chronologicaly, they made Elizabeth III exist. She existed in the past and enough things are traced back to her to make her significant enough to be C.C.

That also covers the shock Lelouch had, either way Ricardo Brittania was his ancesotor after all.....



There is an alternative that presents itself. Boudica.
Originaly pronounced Boadicea 2000 years ago during her failed rebelion against the Romans.....
Didn't CC say it was a strange pronounciation?

Probably quite a few given, as was pointed out.

Why would Japan know any less about greek mythology than americans? If anything, since they're "better" educated, they'd probably know more. Look at how often words like "Gaia" and "Odin" get thrown around in anime and Toku... they use it because it sounds cool, but they at least recognise the names.

Eris was the villain in the first Saint Seiya movie - Saint Seiya was huge at the time. Even it's action figures were so popular they spawned the currently popular line of Souchaku Henshin which was based on similar Saint Seiya figures that did the same thing with clothes.

Among people who watch a lot of anime, "Eris" would be familiar to them.

Wasn't there also a "Sailor Eris" that was to be used in Sailor Moon that spawned a lot of fanfics? I'm pretty sure there are a few other characters called "Eris" if you look around(google is poor for this though).

Again, if she has some important shocking identity, I can't see how it could be anything else.

And as pointed out Eris, like Gaea, transcends greek mythology thanks to contemporary religions and fiction re-inventing them. "Eris" is a general spiritual figure. That makes it even MORE likely, as she is a more general concept, unlike the Norse Gods for example who are very specific.

Where did they have an opportunity to begin with? It's primarily a sci-fi show, but we've gotten constant "Hints" of a mystical background to C.C. and the Geass.

So because we've had no real strong mystical elements, we'll never see them? I doubt it.

... her wish? What? Presumably like any other vaguely humanoid being she just wants to feel love and belong and work around her flaws.

You are obviously way too literal mined and not really able to extrapolate this sort of thing, so I'm unsure why you're even in this debate.

If a name is made a point of, and is "muted out" as if it's OMG WTF SPOILERS, then it's important. I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.


They're not only muting it, but had Lelouch rather taken aback by it, and have made a point of NOT telling us her name yet. She's obviously someone(as most likely is V.V.).

C.C is a pizza monster.

she lives for pizza.

:)

Cheese&Crust people, Cheese&Crust :p

Well, she can't fuel her immortality purely on human souls can she?....

Yeah, and i'm sure Lelouch's "Soul" fulfill her "hunger":uhoh::uhoh::uhoh: