Kyoto Animation: Studio discussion, speculation, and whatnot.
 

I saw a Gonzo thread, so I guessed why not.

Many a time I've seen a KyoAni series discussion degenerate into speculation for one of their highly desired sequels/remakes/whatever. Well since these discussions have no place around here(I tried searching, too many results), I made one.

Be it Haruhi, Key, FMP or Munto(le gasp!) fans, enjoy yourselves.

To kick off, anyone notice how people only noticed the animation studio of a series after the emergence of KyoAni?

One of the things that I find fascinating about Kyoto Animation is it's ability to polarize people into gushing fanboys and haters. Seems to be a pretty strong correlation between a person's opinion of KyoAni and their opinion of moe, too.

I got into Kyoto Animation stuff pretty early in my anime watching, so I did notice studio a lot more after becoming familiar with them - but it's not like I had much of an opportunity to notice studio previously.

Lately I'm finding this to be occurring less though, since it's clear that they have set a new bar in terms of TV animation detail(which is what is causing the polarising), and ever since then, other studios have either been catching up, and they are the ones who have been stagnant.

I don't know how one could not notice. :heh:

Regarding the fanboyism vs. the haters thing, I've definitely noticed a sharp drop-off in defensive fanboyism, but with regard to the haters, it almost seems like it's cool to give them a hard time about stuff that's out of their control right now such as the Haruhi and Full Metal Panic license, which actually belong to Kadokawa Shoten along with Lucky Star. There's really not much they can do if Kadokawa doesn't give them the go ahead to make another adaptation for these two series so it's little wonder that they turn to Key and Munto instead. I say they need to find more diverse partners, but eh...

I certainly think that a certain demand is being stoked with the passing of time, and it should be nothing more than a business and marketing decision.

I'm willing to bet that their risk assessment won't turn out to be high, since there's a certain pedigree(is that the word?) that fans definitely expect. Look at the budget for Clannad AS! What a far cry from the crispness of AIR. Not a bad thing to me though.

Well you do have to keep in mind that Clannad does have 4 times as much episodes than AIR, so the budget is probably being spread and thinned out much more in Clannad.

KyoAni has been growing pretty steadily these past couple of years so it'll be interesting to see their development as a studio in the upcoming future imo. Back during Kanon, i still remember the anxiousness of fans whether they were ready to tackle a full 2 cour season or not. Now look at em, Munto and Clannad AS both airing at once with a little youtube side-project soon to boot as well.

Maybe it's just my memory bias towards controversy, but reading something that level headed about studio fanboyism coming from you had me wondering if hell had frozen over.:heh:

I think the Haruhi one just bugs people because they keep announcing it and then doing nothing.:(

Can't agree with that, Gainax had legions of fanboys with Eva and than FLCL who made KyoAni fanboys look tame in comparison. Sunrise were always well known, same with Madhouse and Bones quickly made a name for themselves with RahXephon, Wolf's Rain and especially Full Metal Alchemist.

Actually, they have Key to thank for. Seriously.

That's sort of more Newtype magazine's fault which is of course a division of Kadokawa publishing. This is a company I have found has a history of getting ahead of itself with marketing campaigns. I mean their whole monthly Gundam episode summaries and latest anime announcement plugs that they do to give people an added incentive to buy the next issue are actually advertisements for future advertisements for a product when you get down to it.

Honestly I don't quite see that nowadays, maybe they're Eva fanboys rather than Gainax fanboys, and also the fact that they've grown up. I am not old enough to see that crowd at their prime, so I can't say much, and Madhouse and Bones has always had fans, but not fanboys from my point of view.

Well it could be a trend thing, and now it's just another studio by the name of KyoAni? Maybe it's got something to do with the proliferation of the internet and fansubs as well, such that it made the phenomenon more pronounced.

What does Gatoh Shouji count for then? Don't forget Fumoffu is the first show that fans took notice of in a big way, not AIR.

overseas, yes. Japan, no.

Carrying over a discussion from an earlier thread:

Hmm, you made me think all right.

Let's see.

1. Of course Key has been more profitable overall, but that's simply because it has had 3 anime releases (4 if you count Clannad and Clannad After Story as separate). Haruhi has had merely 1 anime release, but that one has become a massive phenomenon in the anime fan's world. Just one season. So comparing it fairly to individual Key anime releases, it triumphs.

2. It depends. But mostly Haruhi fans have spread like fuel on a floor ever since the first season release. I say fuel because a second season release would be more than sufficient to "ignite" that fuel and sweep success from that huge audience. Key audiences are also large, especially in Japan, don't get me wrong. Key stories are famous for their sad "crying stories" and beautiful characters. I myself can't get enough Key anime series. but Haruhi is, as I said, a phenomenon. No doubt it has a bigger audience than each individual Key anime on average.

3. I have to say Key's visual novels have so much more story space for anime than the Haruhi novels. In that case, it is justified for more Key series to be released, thus more milking opportunities. However, the Haruhi novels have been delayed enough; there is much more than enough story material for a second season. Key can still be adopted, it's just prime time for more Haruhi!

4. I don't really know how to answer this because I don't have much knowledge on the terms of these company partnerships. Sorry. Can you please clarify this part for me?

5. I think I answered this question on #2. Both partnerships are almost guaranteed for success, but a second Haruhi season would probably bring about a bigger success.

If I said anything wrong, please correct me. And tell me your thoughts and facts on this matter, because I'd love to know.

I am old enough to remember why the Eva movies came out (raging fanboys pressure and all), it just tell how rabid they were. The aftereffects can be still felt over thirteen years later.

OK I see. I was actually looking out for responses since I wanted to know the ground feelings on this, not just the commercial viewpoint.

But still, I'd answer the questions.
From a commercial view.

1. I know that Haruhi is a standalone series, and Key has had 3 works [CLANNAD is just one loooong work spread over 4 cours.] But the average... yeah, you COULD say that Haruhi sells better when you add in the miscellaneous goods like figurines, shirts, mugs, armbands... BUT you've got to realize that Haruhi, once Vol. 10 comes out, is finished, and Tanigawa has no incentive to work with Kyoani again, not right now. Or ever. Kyoani doesn't have the financial means either to woo him further... I guess.

2. You realise that Haruhi is more geared towards moderate to extreme otakus, almost like Lucky Star, whereas AIR and Kanon were for shoujo market, and CLANNAD a family-friendly series? [At least, outside the main cities of Tokyo to Fukuoka, much like BosWash, but we call it Taiheiyo Belt] So, Key still has slight advantage for now. But LB seems to be geared differently, might even clash with Haruhi.

3. Haruhi? No, not really. Again, once V10 is out, that's the end of the script. But Key is always creating new games. Which equates to more material to work on. This also answers 4.

5. Well, honestly, either way, yes.

Haruhi and the 10th book are still speculative as to if it is final or not. With the dragged out nature of its release, it seems like it will be so, however we do not know. The story in and of itself does not suggest an ending from what I understand.

The internal relationship between Tanigawa and Kyoto is not public knowledge to my understanding. Rumors fly on that all the time to the point where one will believe what they want to believe based on their mindset (optimist-pessimist). In reality...we don't know.

We do know that the Youtubed based Haruhi-chan anime is coming out is about three weeks (February 13th)...so that is another Kyoto Animation Project.

We don't know how long Munto (TV) will last. I don't recall hearing an episode count for it other than it will be more than just the remastered OVAs.

We aren't even sure how the episodes will end up for Clannad After Story. Will the story run its course by the end of Ep.22 and we get two OVA-like specials, or does it run the full 24 for the season...or does it get a full 26 episode run?

We also have no clue what KyoAni will do later this year, if anything at all. They could move on with their proposed Disappearance of Haruhi series as advertised a few years ago. They could make 801-chan that was "cancelled". They could be gearing up for Little Busters, a Planetarium Movie...Tomoyo After even on the Key front. They could surprise the hell out of everyone and do more Full Metal Panic!

Did anyone every find out just what studio is making K-On?

Key releases a single full length new game every +-2 years, which doesn't sounds like an steady source of revenue for me :p Not to mention KyoAni is about to run out of Key franchises before reaching Rewrite.

With Yutaka Yamamoto's departure, Kyoto Animation isn't as appealing as before.

So what if the animation is generally consistent? The direction is already changed.

Actually, before Lucky Star Yamamoto had little involvement in Kyoani's direction work beyond storyboarding, an episode director for 2 or 3 episodes and being an assistant director for Munto 2, so my guess is that he bought you with all those Kannagi in gags. :p

Key easily sells over 10,000 copies per game, not to mention merchandise licensing. Also, eroge work, just like anime, doesn't come with an annual salary.

I usually don't pay attention to the animation studio after a single anime but after 2-3 from the same studio, then it usually becomes one of my favorite animation studios or not depending on the number of animes I like from it.

KyoAni hasn't had a real fop yet. Nothing that has seriously challenged their reputation in the anime community.

Lucky Star may have polarized some of that community, but the work was still up to par. Kanon and Clannad have been beautiful for the most part. The biggest rage has been from the Haruhi and FMP camps wanting more. More so from the Haruhi camp due to the continual teasing ads.

Munto (TV) on the other hand could be a risk...no one knows what will happen after they finish adapting the OVAs for television. The reactions so far have been mixed, but that seems to be largely due to the "dated" material and opinions of those that saw the OVAs already not being impressed a second time around. Also those that are waiting out until the OVA based material ends before starting to watch it.

This is exactly makes the Key-Kyoani partnership so important.

OK lets look at this.
Planetarian - a movie will settle it.
Rewrite - an OVA will settle it.
LB - we'll need another 4 cour, like how CLANNAD is right now. Therefore, with CLANNAD lasting 1 1/2 years, I see it as just about nicely in time for the next MAJOR Key game.

I didn't meant it referring to Key, but referring to a previous post which referenced Key as Kyoani's main source of inspiration, and me indicating that the source was about to run out and they should try to diverge their ideas and partnerships.

BTW little busters is considerably shorter than CLANNAD, so it could perfectly fit into a 2 cour schema without pushing it too much. That only leaves an eventual Tomoya After OVA series, possibly a Rewrite series when the time comes and that'd be it.

Hm... maybe, maybe not. 2 cour might be possible, but ONLY if they can condense it a little.

First one: Unlikely, although the Chinese-speaking market wants it badly. Go see China, HK and Taiwan.

Second: It's going o be no longer than Munto, really, I guess.

Thanks for the information, ShimatheKat. It turns out we were agreeing more than arguing, so no problem. ;)

I thought Haruhi had a much wider audience than otakus, which could explain the popularity. I had a female teenage friend who only watched a few anime like Cowboy Bebop, Fruits Basket, Cardcaptor Sakura and Evangelion. She loves shoujo anime the most. I introduced some anime to her and widened her anime frontiers. She almost fell asleep watching Kanon but loved Haruhi Suzumiya.

I'm not trying to argue, don't take it like that, just raising a point. Haruhi simply grabs one's attention more than Key, often regardless of one's favorite genres.

Not to nit-pick too much, I do hope you mean Tomoyo After instead of Rewrite. We don't know how large Rewrite will be but it'll probably be between the length of Air and Little Busters. With (at least) three heroines, I can't see it being so short it can be covered by an OVA.

Cheers. ^________^

As I said, I'm only picking up ground sentiments. I'm more familiar with the corporate side of things, having counseled people previously from the market. Not too sure on ground sentiment, however, especially outside Japan.

It's only recently that I realized, but Singapore and otakus have something in common: LARGE RESERVES of money [that might have otherwise been used on dates and girls.] Which MIGHT explain why it looks so popular. Who said otakus didn't have money, they are the ones that make popular series popular.

I fell asleep watching Kanon too. Try giving her Tsubasa:: Resevoir Chronicles. :D Just keep Tokyo Revelations from her.. :uhoh:

True, but it's always the otakus that spend copious amounts on a series, no? :heh:

I heard it was very short... but if what you say is true, then maybe. I personally don't know whether Kyoani will even do Tomoyo, since they've been in CLANNAD territory for 1 year + now.

I'll bring the sake.

"A much wider audience than otaku" isn't Haruhi, I'm afraid. It's not Nodame Cantabile by any means. I don't believe a Haruhi clone would do well in this day and age; people call it a phenomenon for a reason. On a side note, I almost fell asleep on my girlfriend's shoulder during a semi-public screening of it two weeks ago. :D I have the R1 DVDs sitting on my shelf, yet I don't feel anything towards the series. It was a good investment for the future, though.

Personally, I hope that KyoAni firmly steps away from Haruhi and Full Metal Panic, simply because constantly doing more of the same doesn't make a great portfolio. I would put a lid on all fanboy expectations regarding Key as well. Just because a Key story exists doesn't mean it has to be retold in animation. Little Busters! will definitely get an anime adaptation, as it was one of the best selling eroge properties of 2007/2008, Rewrite as well (Ryuukishi-07 + Maeda + Romeo :hype:), I'm just not confident KyoAni will take the job. For the immediate future, I hope that they take charge of K-ON! and eventually restart the Tonari no 801-chan project.

It's not for sure. Like Lucky Star.

How's this related to anything?

We're not talking about a clone, we're talking about a second season.

Of? Which series? Haruhi?

Good point, good idea. I agree.

The major ones like LB, yes. It's not a partnership for no reason. The others, there's big bucks-Toei.

Rewrite as well (Ryuukishi-07 + Maeda + Romeo :hype:), I'm just not confident KyoAni will take the job. [/QUOTE]

I'm not sure of that even being animated.

:heh: Thanks, I'll do that.

I don't really expect or desire a Tomoyo After series/OVA soon from now. Two seasons of Clannad are enough for this decade. I'd like to see Tomoyo After animated, but I can wait a loooong time.

While I eagerly await a Little Busters anime (more so than Haruhi), I want to see KyoAni take on different things and expand their audiences, as with K-ON! and My Neighbor 801-chan.

I wouldn't mind a shoujo series from them either, such as a Fruits Basket season 2 or such (the big character eyes even suit them), but I'm probably dreaming. Unless Munto TV counts as shoujo action?

It's an example of a late-night anime receiving mainstream attention (6.6% viewership rating).It's an "if Haruhi were released today" scenario, unrelated to the discussion at hand.... yes. >_>
Is it a partnership? I'm interested, have they specifically mentioned it anywhere as such or is this another one of those fanboy urban legends?

Unofficially, from industry insiders, it seems to be the case.

I haven't heard of any official partnership myself.

Naturally, the companies have a good relationship since the shows sell so well. VisualArt's even mentioned that their desire would be for Kyoto Animation to handle Little Busters! when the time comes. However, where long-term plans are concerned, I doubt anything's set in stone.

Sorry, but Nodame Cantabile was unbelievably boring (and wasn't animated lol, seeing as half the show was stills [/gripe]). It may have had wider viewership during airing, but comparatively in terms of merchandise and DVD sales...? Haruhi got attention only about halfway through anyway, most people (granted, from viewers like us, not mainstream) "picked it up" after it started receiving major otaku attention and it snowballed from there. And in the end, it's the sales of "everything else" that qualify a series, not just what goes on during airing.

To answer your speculation though, "if Haruhi were released today"... based on the past 3 or so seasons, a "Haruhi" is exactly what the anime medium needs right now. We really haven't had any phenomenon of the sort since Lucky Star, and most shows in current or recent seasons go unnoticed or are virtual clones of their genre.

If anything, KyoAni's might be hoping to capitalize on these "low" seasons by putting off Haruhi and slowly building up to it, but I hope for their sakes it doesn't destroy their loyal fans if it hasn't already. The Key adaptations please their fans (even though I was pretty discouraged at the start of After Story, it's gotten better). But all I'm really waiting for is the next "big" series, be it the Haruhi sequel, or the HagaRen (FMA) remake, etc. Honestly though, I'm surprised that we'll prolly see HagaRen come out before the Haruhi sequel, lol.

Other than your personal opinion, if we compare the franchises....

Let's compare it with Haruhi's

I rest my case.

I mean, I'm a Haruhi fan as well, but you have to keep things in perspective

High DVD sales numbers don't equate to mainstream attention, profitability comparison isn't the topic of this discussion (although I'm sure Nodame Cantabile has other sources of revenue to be proud of, such as third party commercials, something Haruhi didn't have).Lucky Star was a continuation of the Haruhi craze, an instance of a fandom automatically crossing over to another.

Eh, from what I heard, the original Little Busters is shorter than Clannad, but Little Busters EX was actually a bit longer, as well as the storyline apparently being somewhat tricky to faithfully adapt into a TV-series without it being 3-cour at the very least.

Of course, I can't say anything for sure, being that the entire visual novel-genre is so extremely niche outside of Japan that hardly anything ever gets released anywhere else, so the only one of Key's visual novels I've actually... eh... experienced myself is Planetarian, which I really hope they'll make a movie or OVA of, because despite being the single most depressing thing I've ever seen, it was still a great story.

I hope "Little Busters" will be ridiculous comedy anime cause I 'm enough with tragic
drama anime from "Key".

It's Key. Tragedy always comes to a point or another.

True, but I somehow get the impression that LB isn't quite as depressing as Key's other works... But maybe I just think so because the opening theme-song is so upbeat and happy compared to Key's other stuff. But yeah, there'll definitely be more than enough tear-jerking moments in there if they do make a Little Busters-anime... Which I really hope they do, because Key=Awesome.