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-   -   Which type of subs do you like the most (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=91869)

boscowitch 2010-03-02 19:47

Which type of subs do you like the most
 
Here comes a question for all otakus who are more than just watching anime but also understanding them.

since i learned more and more japanese i noticed more and more difference in the translation.

so i would like to ask what kind you prefer.

Triple_R 2010-03-02 20:37

Most accurate and near to the original.

Dubs will inevitably have to alter things a bit, and be creative, simply to have the lines of characters match those characters' lip-flaps.

So, with the subs, I really want to see accuracy, since it's the only place where I'm likely to really get it.

Chiibi 2010-03-03 01:11

I'll just put this out here now:

I despise name changes, names in American format, honorifics left out (like -chan, kun, san, being completely omitted), a sub reading first name when the character is being called by their LAST name...and pretty much any other thing in subbing that treats its viewers like idiots who are deaf and don't know a thing about Japanese culture.

I will not download from any fansubbing group that does that stuff. It gets so annoying and distracting that I can't even focus on the show.

Zu Ra 2010-03-03 05:28


Most accurate and near to the original


Chose the above, but I flip flop between literally translations and nearest translation . Literally translation doesn't not make sense at times . Overall I do have a soft spot for subs which explains things in details . With little notes or after credits IMO things like this differentiate decent subs from good subs .

Mushi 2010-03-03 05:58

Most accurate.

It's senpai dammit! SeNpai!!

[edit]- Ok, I get it already. Sempai is acceptable romanization.

Zenemis 2010-03-03 06:40

I like Engrish subs.

boscowitch 2010-03-03 08:58

yeah so true name changins sucks a** its really distranting...
and misspelling of senpai yeah the most common ones...
大賛成だ!

i agree also that subs with explanations are nice but sometimes they distract me because it already know what they say, but i have to rewind to read it again to read em and understand that i already know what's it about but nevertheless they are very helpful for all still in learning process.

One thing i shockinly noticed is that Love hina the first anime i looked has accually characters who speaking a slight dialect oO because ther was no notice or way to tell, i had no idear till now where i watched it again. (wich was so shoking that i started this thread ;)

EDIT: and respect to the one who voted "is there a way to tell" ^^ i can only say get to study japanese it rocks ^^ especally when you can get there in RL for some partying and shopping ad relaxing in onsens ;)

klare 2010-03-03 09:18

most accurate and near to the original

i can do with or without the -san, -chan etc, i dont mind a little typo too

but i prefer the name to be correct, like until now i am not sure which one is correct:
- Queens Blade: Risty or Listy?
- 12 Kingdoms: Youko or Yoko?
- Sora no Woto: Felicia or Filicia?

and many more...

Haak 2010-03-03 09:20

Wow, I feel like such an idiot, now. I'm the only one so far who's voted for the last one.

Dazarath 2010-03-03 10:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiibi (Post 2940961)
I despise name changes, names in American format, honorifics left out (like -chan, kun, san, being completely omitted), a sub reading first name when the character is being called by their LAST name...and pretty much any other thing in subbing that treats its viewers like idiots who are deaf and don't know a thing about Japanese culture.

This. Honestly, I don't get some groups' obsession with localizing. If people are getting their hands on fansubs, then they have access to Google and it's not going to kill them to quickly search for the occasional untranslatable term. It's better than having to read [name] when "oniichan" is clearly being said. Given the context that we're watching anime, it's fine to leave in stuff that wouldn't make sense in English, but makes sense in Japanese. Of course, that's all just IMHO.

Chiibi 2010-03-03 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushi (Post 2941213)
Most accurate.

It's senpai dammit! SeNpai!!

WORD.:D
WHY DO PEOPLE USE "M"!? There's no reason to put "m" when it's an "n"!:rolleyes: You can't even HAVE an "m" in the Japanese language if it's not followed by a vowel! (mi, mo, mu, ma, me, myu etc) *spazzes*

........man, I am so uptight. Probably a little too much. :heh: But if you study the language, I think it's hard not to be uptight. I spaz at my parents when they call raw fish "sushi", pronounce it "Saky" and say "Kay-rah-oh-key".
It makes my ears bleed!!

@Dazarath: Indeed. :)

Quarkboy 2010-03-03 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiibi (Post 2941610)
WORD.:D
WHY DO PEOPLE USE "M"!? There's no reason to put "m" when it's an "n"!:rolleyes: You can't even HAVE an "m" in the Japanese language if it's not followed by a vowel! (mi, mo, mu, ma, me, myu etc) *spazzes*

........man, I am so uptight. Probably a little too much. :heh: But if you study the language, I think it's hard not to be uptight. I spaz at my parents when they call raw fish "sushi", pronounce it "Saky" and say "Kay-rah-oh-key".
It makes my ears bleed!!

@Dazarath: Indeed. :)

You should study it a little harder because sempai is a perfectly correct transliteration under some older systems of transliteration.
Along with shimbun instead of shinbun, and every other situation when an "n" is followed by a b, m, or p sound.

I.e. whether it's "senpai" or "sempai" depends on whether you are following traditional Hepburn romanization or revised Hepburn.
FYI romanization of station names in Japan follow the traditional romanization by law.

Raiga 2010-03-03 14:08

Can't decide between the first two... and I also try to avoid the word "accurate" in favor of "literal." I mean, which is more "accurate," translating "urusai!" as "shut up!" or "you're noisy!"? There are lots of different ways to be accurate, and sticking closest to the dictionary definitions does not always mean you're really capturing the sense and meaning of the original. I've read some fansubs and scanlations that were simply painful to read because I could practically see the Japanese right through the English, and as a result the English sounded extremely awkward.

I think everyone wants accuracy; I mean, that's the point of a good translation (well, there are some crazy poetic or modernized translations of ancient classics out there, like I heard about one rendition of Gilgamesh that was set in a city ghetto or something, but I don't think that's relevant to anime). The amount of localization is what tends to get people.

In my opinion, a translation should try to capture more than the literal dictionary meanings of the words, because there's a lot more to the original text/dialogue than the dictionary meanings. For instance, is the character excited or sullen or sarcastic? Is the character being polite or formal or rude? Is there some really beautiful poetic imagery that ought to sound just as poetic when translated?

In the end, I believe it's all about balance. Try to get in as much literal meaning as possible, but stop short of producing anything that sounds terrible in English. Try to make the English read as smoothly and idiomatically as possible, but stop short of anything that misrepresents the literal meaning of the original.

Mushi 2010-03-03 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarkboy (Post 2941650)
You should study it a little harder because sempai is a perfectly correct transliteration under some older systems of transliteration.
Along with shimbun instead of shinbun, and every other situation when an "n" is followed by a b, m, or p sound.

I.e. whether it's "senpai" or "sempai" depends on whether you are following traditional Hepburn romanization or revised Hepburn.
FYI romanization of station names in Japan follow the traditional romanization by law.

Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for pointing that out. I'll stop making a pet peeve out of sempai. :heh:

Quote:

In the end, I believe it's all about balance. Try to get in as much literal meaning as possible, but stop short of producing anything that sounds terrible in English. Try to make the English read as smoothly and idiomatically as possible, but stop short of anything that misrepresents the literal meaning of the original.
Very well said. I agree.

Another thing is the translation of common words. Should fansubs assume most fans know a few basic words or translate them more litterally? Ittadakimasu is a good one. It doesn't really translate directly, so I'd prefer to just see Ittadakimasu instead of "I'll have some now."

I've seen onii-chan/san translated as "big brother" and I found it to be kind of annoying every time I saw it. Onii-chan/san just sounds so... cute. "Big brother" doesn't quite convey the same kind of imouto rabu-rabu.

WingedWolf24 2010-03-03 15:21

As accurate as possible D:

Raiga 2010-03-03 15:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mushi (Post 2941774)
Ah, I wasn't aware of that. Thank you for pointing that out. I'll stop making a pet peeve out of sempai. :heh:

To be more specific, it has to do with phonetics. The Japanese ん can technically be pronounced "n," "m," "ng," or anything in between depending on the situation. The consonants "m," "b," and "p" which Quarkboy mentioned are all labial-- that is, you put both your lips together to say them.

The only difference between "m" and "n" is that in "n" your tongue is up at the front of your palate but in "m" your lips are closed; hence, when there's an "n" before a labial consonant, it tends to get slurred into an "m" because when spoken fast, you automatically close your lips for the next consonant. Just try saying "senpai" quickly, and you'll find that it probably ends up sounding more like "sempai," just like when you say the English word "letter" quickly, it sounds more like "leder." This is also why the English word is "impossible" when technically, the word came from the prefix "in" + "possible."

I'm sorry about the phonetics rant, I couldn't resist. Hopefully it was educational. XD

Mushi 2010-03-03 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiga (Post 2941847)
I'm sorry about the phonetics rant, I couldn't resist. Hopefully it was educational. XD

Very much so. Nicely explained, thank you.

SilverSyko 2010-03-03 16:27

Anything I can read. Proper spelling and grammar. Random typos are forgivable.

It doesn't really matter to me if they use the honorifics system in the subtitles. If they're using one I can hear it when the character says it. I don't paticularily like Engrish subtitles though.

My standards aren't incredibly high. I usually accept whatever I can find even if it isn't the greatest quality subs. I'm just grateful people are translating these series' into langauges we can understand and share on an international scale.

DJLowrider 2010-03-03 16:38

Wow, some people care about this way too much.

I voted for "good English". What good is a subtitle if it's simply a word-for-word translation that ends up not making any sense as an English sentence? Though on a personal note it doesn't make that much difference to me, I understand Japanese well enough that I can more or less figure out what's going on without subs.

Chiibi 2010-03-03 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quarkboy (Post 2941650)
You should study it a little harder because sempai is a perfectly correct transliteration under some older systems of transliteration.
Along with shimbun instead of shinbun, and every other situation when an "n" is followed by a b, m, or p sound.

I do not need to "study it a little harder":mad: because if I'm typing Japanese on a keyboard, I have to type "se-N-pa-i" to get 先輩..........so to me, anything else would be incorrect. Even if it's not truly incorrect romanizing....I......still don't like it...because it doesn't make sense to me.

せmぱい <-------what I end up with if I type "m".

THE M JUST DOESN'T WORK!! >______<
That's why that bothers me so much. If I were to try teaching Japanese to someone and used "m" instead of "n", don't you think that'd confuse the hell out of them?

I use the system I was taught in high school, all righty? :rolleyes:

Quote:

Wow, some people care about this way too much.
What's so bad about caring about language accuracy?

Quote:

What good is a subtitle if it's simply a word-for-word translation that ends up not making any sense as an English sentence?
I DO agree with this.......but it's certainly possible to keep a word-for-word translation and still make it flow. When I first started scanlating, I didn't heed to the "flow smoothly" rule. Now I know better. Even if it's a literal translation, it's odd to type, "Go to the school we shall".........unless your audience is a bunch of Star Wars fans who don't mind that speech pattern. XD

I'm okay with "oniichan" being turned into "big brother".......but if it's turned into the brother's actual name, then I get pissy because technically, that is NOT what the dialogue means.


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