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-   -   Methods and Possibilities for Defeating Accelerator [Speculation] (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=120539)

rladls716 2013-07-06 19:40
Methods and Possibilities for Defeating Accelerator [Speculation]
 
Why is it that Accelerator is unbeatable? Why no one can beat him?

So Mikoto can't figure out the way that to penetrate Accelerator's repeling abilities?

Then I'm lost, I'm lost like how Accelerator stepping on a thug that is beaten effortlessly, I'm that thug.

Ilidsor 2013-07-06 20:00
Quote:
Originally Posted by rladls716 (Post 4749672)
Yes sisters would be already dead, but she could have possibly saved the remaining ones if she tried.
Wait what? She could have saved them even though they were dead?

Quote:
No, Destroying laboratories was the worst thing that she could have done because it is just wasting her energy AC still proceed with the experiment.
Sure we know that now but hindsight is 20/20. At the time it made perfect sense for Mikoto to assume that destroying the facilities would end the experiment.

Quote:
Why is it that Accelerator is unbeatable? Why no one can beat him?
Accelerator is the strongest esper in the world. His power is to control all vectors, meaning that no matter how powerful your attack he will just send it right back against you.

It's not that he's unbeatable it's just that Misaka doesn't have either the extremely intimate knowledge of his powers, or the kind of ability that he couldn't block, that would be required for her to be able to defeat him

Some people in the series can beat him, in fact there are some people in the series who would crush him like a grape. But Misaka isn't one of them.

Xellos-_^ 2013-07-06 20:11
Quote:
Originally Posted by rladls716 (Post 4749693)
Why is it that Accelerator is unbeatable? Why no one can beat him?

So Mikoto can't figure out the way that to penetrate Accelerator's repeling abilities?

Then I'm lost, I'm lost like how Accelerator stepping on a thug that is beaten effortlessly, I'm that thug.
Accel isn't unbeatable but he has 3 advantages over Mikoto that she can't overcome that easily in the amount of time it would do the Sisters any good.

1. Accel as the #1 lvl5 in AC has the highest computation power. In shear power and brains she already lost.

2. Exp, Accel has been through 10000+ fights that are design to increase his power. Mikoto does not simply has that kind of battle experience.

3. Mikoto is not a killer. Despite her burst of anger at Accel for killing 9982, she does not have the willingness to kill that Accel has.

Mikoto can overcome 1 and 2 if she has access to the Misaka network but she no idea of the network so that is a moot point. To over come #3 she is going to need to turn into entirely different Mikoto, a Mikoto steep in the darkness of AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor (Post 4749713)
Some people in the series can beat him, in fact there are some people in the series who would crush him like a grape. But Misaka isn't one of them.
they can beat him but i doubt they can just crush him.

Sackett 2013-07-06 20:42
Quote:
Originally Posted by rladls716 (Post 4749693)
Why is it that Accelerator is unbeatable? Why no one can beat him?

So Mikoto can't figure out the way that to penetrate Accelerator's repeling abilities?

Then I'm lost, I'm lost like how Accelerator stepping on a thug that is beaten effortlessly, I'm that thug.
Accelerator doesn't have a repealing ability. He has the power to control any vector in contact with his body. He can control any force. Electricity, magnetism, the air, the ground, gravity, the weak nuclear force. Anything. He may be the most overpowered villain I have ever seen in all of fiction.

Impenetrable defense, and extremely effective offense.

Misaka's best possible attempt against Accelerator would be an indirect attack, such as destroying all the oxygen around Accelerator to suffocate him. Except if he figures out what she's doing he can counter that easily by generating wind.

So a powerful nuke might kill him by depriving him of oxygen.

An indirect magic attack might defeat him- such as a spell that cause people hostile to the spells target to pass out- but even that may depend on whether or not the is a vector involved and whether Accelerator can identify that vector. (For example, this hypothetical spell might have a vector involved in identifying who the hostility is pointed at- in that case Accelerator could theoretically counter it directly).

Is there a vector-less attack? That is the first requirement to bypass Accelerator's passive defenses. Then you'd also need to have it be immune or shielded from an active attempt at disruption using vectors.

leukrota 2013-07-06 20:47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilidsor (Post 4749713)
It's not that he's unbeatable it's just that Misaka doesn't have either the extremely intimate knowledge of his powers, or the kind of ability that he couldn't block, that would be required for her to be able to defeat him

Some people in the series can beat him, in fact there are some people in the series who would crush him like a grape. But Misaka isn't one of them.
Indeed. Mikoto's power would actually be great against Accelerator if (note: humongous if) she had the proper knowledge and preparation (Kihara level knowledge).

In fact, I can even see the Sisters zapping him with their measly power after correctly evaluating and testing how his reflection worked, perhaps around Sister no. 19990...

EDIT: Ok, correction, it might need to happen much earlier than 19990 if the goal is level 6...

Miraluka 2013-07-06 21:01
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett (Post 4749749)
Accelerator doesn't have a repealing ability. He has the power to control any vector in contact with his body. He can control any force. Electricity, magnetism, the air, the ground, gravity, the weak nuclear force. Anything. He may be the most overpowered villain I have ever seen in all of fiction.

Impenetrable defense, and extremely effective offense. Touma's anti-magic/anti-esp hand is probably the most effective counter.

Misaka's best possible attempt against Accelerator would be an indirect attack, such as destroying all the oxygen around Accelerator to suffocate him. Except if he figures out what she's doing he can counter that easily by generating wind.

So a powerful nuke might kill him by depriving him of oxygen.

An indirect magic attack might defeat him- such as a spell that cause people hostile to the spells target to pass out- but even that may depend on whether or not the is a vector involved and whether Accelerator can identify that vector. (For example, this hypothetical spell might have a vector involved in identifying who the hostility is pointed at- in that case Accelerator could theoretically counter it directly).

Is there a vector-less attack? That is the first requirement to bypass Accelerator's passive defenses. Then you'd also need to have it be immune or shielded from an active attempt at disruption using vectors.
Attacks that aren't science based can.

Sackett 2013-07-06 21:09
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback (Post 4749769)
Attacks that aren't science based can.
No, attacks that are vectorless can.

Magic attacks (ie non-scientific attacks) might be vectorless, but they also can have vectors.

For example, a magic attack that consists of launching a fireball at Accelerator will fail, because the attack ultimately has a vector.

Tranhieu 2013-07-06 22:12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett (Post 4749778)
No, attacks that are vectorless can.

Magic attacks (ie non-scientific attacks) might be vectorless, but they also can have vectors.

For example, a magic attack that consists of launching a fireball at Accelerator will fail, because the attack ultimately has a vector.
Is Kuroko's vector-based? Like the incident in season 1 where she teleports those glasses and insert them into the concrete pillars, Mikoto might as well ask her to teleport something into Accelerator's head.

leukrota 2013-07-06 22:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tranhieu (Post 4749847)
Is Kuroko's vector-based? Like the incident in season 1 where she teleports those glasses and insert them into the concrete pillars, Mikoto might as well ask her to teleport something into Accelerator's head.
Without spoiling much, teleportation does have vectors.

It's been argued whether Kuroko's teleportation works with the same principle, but the safest assumption is to say it does too.

Regardless, Mikoto would never involve Kuroko with such a dangerous thing, not to mention ask her to kill anyone, for all that matters.

SilverTalon 2013-07-06 22:39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett (Post 4749778)
No, attacks that are vectorless can.

Magic attacks (ie non-scientific attacks) might be vectorless, but they also can have vectors.

For example, a magic attack that consists of launching a fireball at Accelerator will fail, because the attack ultimately has a vector.
Hmm not really, attacks with vectors (including magic) can work. He doesn't just reflect (or redirect) everything with a vector. If there was a "setting" for that, he couldn't breathe or see (or even hold a glass or something, you saw what happened just by placing his foot on someone's chest with reflection on). So clearly he has his reflection set up specifically for everything, therefore if you could hit him with something he didn't know existed or what it was, it wouldn't get auto reflected even if it had a vector. So there is a clearly exploitable weakness... in theory, though where Mikoto could get something even if she knew about it is another story.

Miraluka 2013-07-06 23:20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sackett (Post 4749778)
No, attacks that are vectorless can.

Magic attacks (ie non-scientific attacks) might be vectorless, but they also can have vectors.

For example, a magic attack that consists of launching a fireball at Accelerator will fail, because the attack ultimately has a vector.
Thats assuming the magic follows the logic of science. Magic has a different set of laws. Even a simple curse could beat Accelerator.

Ihaxlikenoob 2013-07-06 23:54
As an aside for you debating folks ( I highly suspect this discussion will be moved or deleted. ).

Accelerator has the ability to adapt to unknown laws with regard to his shield through continued exposure to said unknown laws. Though directed "vectorless" attacks can still ( probably, you never know ) hit him.

GundamZZ 2013-07-07 00:16
The limit of Accelerator is the author's preference. It is the only truth.
Else, Accelerator can simply beat Touma by calculating the vector of Touma's leg movement. It is the only truth. Since Accelerator never encounter any magic, some people's confidence about Accerlator's loss is questionable statement. It would be a discussion for the imagination thread. The encounter has 999 possible results, such as Accelerator may end up turning magic into bubbles.

Xellos-_^ 2013-07-07 00:25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilfriback (Post 4749911)
Thats assuming the magic follows the logic of science. Magic has a different set of laws. Even a simple curse could beat Accelerator.
if you want to debate this then you need ask this question in the Index/Novel forum.

leukrota 2013-07-07 00:33
Ahh... that sensation when I want to correct a wrong spoiler only to realize that doing so would also be a spoiler... :eyespin:

Let's drop this already.

Ihaxlikenoob 2013-07-07 00:53
Quote:
Originally Posted by leukrota (Post 4749985)
Ahh... that sensation when I want to correct a wrong spoiler only to realize that doing so would also be a spoiler... :eyespin:

Let's drop this already.
Would that be me?

leukrota 2013-07-07 01:02
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ihaxlikenoob (Post 4750010)
Would that be me?
:heh: Not really, but I rather leave it vague.

Well, this is probably going away anyway as you said.

zibi88 2013-07-07 02:04
Accel is not unbeatable... you just need a specific power and right timing.... power basen on chaning vectors... you attack accel and before it hits his barrier you change the vector of the attack to the opposite... so accels shield would turn that vector again and it would make it fly into his own dirrection

mikotos attacks are streigh line attack based generally... so it wont have any use on accel... but she can create passive attacks with it like clone showed... create ozone to try and suffocate accel.... I guess bio bombs would work on him too...especially those that have no smell.... he would breath it in and without even noticing he is dieing...

magic might work too I guess... curse like magic... no fireballs ect. as they all have vectors.

Miraluka 2013-07-07 15:05
Spoiler for future novels:

Ilidsor 2013-07-07 15:56
Now that I think about it isn't there a really simple spell that defeats flying people? It's the reason so few magicians fly iirc. If that doesn't use any vectors than pretty much any magician could beat Accelerator if he decides to start using his tornadoes.


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