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-   -   Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=151573)

xris 2018-05-29 12:32

Steins;Gate 0 - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll
 
Welcome to the discussion thread for Steins;Gate 0, Episode 8.

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Klashikari 2018-05-30 11:47

The changes for this episode were pretty drastic along with the additional scenes, and while I must admit I didn't like some tonal changes here and there, it was indeed a very powerful episode all around, notably the last third.

I just hope they know what they are doing, because the changes also lead to major plot divergence compared to the vn, so if they don't go through them, it will be quite inconsistent.

HtwoN 2018-05-30 13:12

The episode surely packed a punch. I liked the changes actually.

It's clear that Okabe would never be happy until he saves both Kurisu and Mayuri.

EroKing 2018-05-30 13:52

Seeing Kurisu again and interacting with Okabe was just so special. The amount of emotions it can deliver in one episode along with its magnificent story-telling sets it apart from any other anime period.

Kakurin 2018-05-30 14:29

Being a big fan of Kurisu this episode was both sweet and tough. It was only to be expected to end that way, but still.

Ruki0089 2018-05-30 15:02

Kinda disappointed at first part.... but the rest made my day... ahhhh!!!

Kanon 2018-05-30 16:47

That was such an emotional episode. It was great seeing Kurisu again.

I was wondering how Okabe would be able to go back to the beta worldline without them messing with the first anime's canon (Kurisu still came back to the lab at the last moment like in S;G, but the message was able to delay her long enough), and they did a nice job. It makes you think "so that's what happened behind the scenes!".

We didn't really get any answers regarding why the worldline changed, but we got some clues. Alpha Kurisu stated she was only able to complete her time machine theory after meeting Okabe, but we know beta Kurisu had already completed it before, meaning it's highly likely Amadeus has the knowledge to make one in the beta worldline. A bit of a shame they didn't talk about Maho and Leskinen more.

Wandering Soul 2018-05-30 16:57

Okabe's right, Amadeus is nice and all, but she doesn't have anything on the actual Kurisu. It was wonderful to see her and her dynamic with Okabe's again.

The ending was impactful in both a heartwarming and sad manner. Now Okabe needs to find a way to save the two of the most important women in his life. It's the only way he'll be whole again.

Jaden 2018-05-30 17:09

Y'know, if Okabe wasn't such an egocentric cunt, seeing Kurisu again in Alpha might be enough to give him closure. They both live on in different worlds, he just doesn't get to two-time. Picking one doesn't mean "killing" the other.

But clearly he won't be satisfied with anything less then Steins Gate. :heh:

Hopefully he's been pushed around enough now and we get to see the return of the mad scientist.

Klashikari 2018-05-30 17:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaden (Post 6241720)
Y'know, if Okabe wasn't such an egocentric cunt, seeing Kurisu again in Alpha might be enough to give him closure. They both live on in different worlds, he just doesn't get to two-time. Picking one doesn't mean "killing" the other.

I don't know how far you seriously think that, but in both the original series and 0, Okabe only loves Kurisu.
Mayuri being precious to him doesn't mean he has any romantic love for her, and unfortunately, his choice actually kills someone.

MCAL 2018-05-30 17:16

Well now... Even having read the VN didn't prepare me for that sucker punch of an episode.

Dextro 2018-05-30 17:19

As a massive Kurisu fan I was more than happy with this episode. I may be (no, I most definitely am) remembering things wrong but I don't feel like the changes they did to the episode where that massive. But I may just be showing my massive Kurisu fanboyism here by letting anything with more "Cristina" slide :heh:

GDB 2018-05-30 17:36

I'm assuming at this point that we'll be repeating the part of the story we've already gotten, with Okabe trying not to interact with Amadeus. It's a shame, since I want him to interact more with Maho now that he can tease her with whatever info Kurisu gave him.

Dengar 2018-05-31 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaden (Post 6241720)
Y'know, if Okabe wasn't such an egocentric cunt, seeing Kurisu again in Alpha might be enough to give him closure. They both live on in different worlds, he just doesn't get to two-time. Picking one doesn't mean "killing" the other.

But clearly he won't be satisfied with anything less then Steins Gate. :heh:

Hopefully he's been pushed around enough now and we get to see the return of the mad scientist.

Uhhh. Saving one does mean killing the other. Kurisu is 100% dead now. What are you even talking about? There are no parallel worlds in SG. Okarin does not travel through time. The world itself changes around him.

Besides, the idea that them 'still being alive in another world' makes it okay to kill them in this one sounds very malicious no matter how it works.

Jaden 2018-05-31 04:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar (Post 6241826)
Uhhh. Saving one does mean killing the other. Kurisu is 100% dead now. What are you even talking about? There are no parallel worlds in SG. Okarin does not travel through time. The world itself changes around him..

I realize that is how Okabe assumes things to work, because of his egocentrism. It's not like there is anything to substantiate that theory. So I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that.

In Okabe's shoes, my perspective would be this: In Alpha, Mayuri dies, and in Beta, Kurisu dies. Despite my efforts, the only thing I could do is pick which world to observe. I can get over the guilt since I'm just a bit player, the universe doesn't revolve around me.

But clearly Okabe has a bit of a deviant personality that won't allow him to be satisfied with that - otherwise there would be no story. That's cool and I hope he starts showing his good side soon. Oh and, I guess they must find the third option in order to dodge WW3, but that hasn't really come into play yet.

Klashikari 2018-05-31 05:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaden (Post 6241844)
I realize that is how Okabe assumes things to work, because of his egocentrism. It's not like there is anything to substantiate that theory. So I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that.

That's not correct. Suzuha explained the concept of world lines, that's why it isn't about time lines: the world changes its parameters, which in turn lead to the specific attractor fields of a given world line (Mayuri death and SERN dystopia in Alpha, Kurisu death in Beta).
And while the anime wasn't explicit with that (John Titor explanations still say about the world changes, not jumping to another world), the VN canonically confirmed there is only 1 world line active at any time. The concept of parallel worlds doesn't apply to steins gate. Meaning that when the world line shifts at some point, the world completely reconfigure itself, then Okarin's reading steiner prevents his memories to be altered. This is also why Suzuha told Okarin has a "special power so he doesn't forget unlike everyone else". This practically means the characters are the same, but reconfigured by the world. This is also the very reason why time doesn't change its flow when a world line shift occurs: the date doesn't change, but every world parameters change to follow the changes induced by an action changing the past.

You might argue "but Suzuha just learned that stuff from the resistance, which was created by Okabe!" except Okarin's observation confirms this hypothesis without any doubt.
Let's take Suzuha's time travel as an example: When SERN succeed into establishing their dystopia, Suzuha goes back in time with Daru's time machine, albeit incomplete since he died early if it is SERN dystopia.
However, when Suzuha shows up in 2010, she crash landed in the Radio kaikan, effectively preventing the usual events of Beta to even occur (Nakabachi's seminar, Kurisu being killed etc). This kind of event succession doesn't make any sense with the parallel world stuff, because parallel worlds don't interact which each other (hence "parallel"). It would require Okarin to have its RS to transfer his memories to another Okarin from another world but this doesn't match with how the actions have a direct consequence to the new world line. The original beta world line CANNOT exist under the ongoing turn of events, because in that world line, Kurisu is dead and the problem is all about the time machine race, not SERN dystopia.
Ergo, it effectively means the world itself changes its setup based on the past that has been changed.

Finally, this is explicitely explained in SteinsGate other material too.

As such, there is no "other world line where the dead girl is still alive". It isn't about supposition: it is a fact established in the lore.
That's the very reason why Okarin was extremely affected by the d-mail cancellation procedure, because he effectively denied happiness for Feiris, Luka etc. And it is exactly the same for Mayuri and Kurisu: choosing the beta world line means he effectively left Kurisu to die, and there is NO alpha world line going on where Kurisu is still living at the same time.
Quote:

In Okabe's shoes, my perspective would be this: In Alpha, Mayuri dies, and in Beta, Kurisu dies. Despite my efforts, the only thing I could do is pick which world to observe. I can get over the guilt since I'm just a bit player, the universe doesn't revolve around me.
Actually it did because of Okarin's action with the dmail. And no, it isn't about Okarin's observation: it is the world itself settles with the current world line, thus attractor fields.
Quote:

But clearly Okabe has a bit of a deviant personality that won't allow him to be satisfied with that - otherwise there would be no story. That's cool and I hope he starts showing his good side soon. Oh and, I guess they must find the third option in order to dodge WW3, but that hasn't really come into play yet.
I don't see how it is any remotely close to "deviant" personality. Okarin suffered to earnstly help Mayuri for a hellish number of world lines. Then, the one he loves dies because of reversing this turn of fate.

How could that be deviant? it isn't like everyone can accept someone's death, especially if they were dear to the former, even moreso when that person CAN prevent their death to boot.
Even then, Okabe tried hard to accept his choice when he thought he couldn't overturn the Beta Attractor Field condemning Kurisu to die. And the result is pretty much him being a wreck. It is exactly because he couldn't strive to save both of them that he is in such pitiful state. Not because he doesn't accept it, but rather because he tried to accept it.

moridin84 2018-05-31 06:37

Me from the previous thread.
Quote:

The idea that Okabe is going to switching back and forth between world lines where Kurisu is alive and ones where she is dead isn't really pleasant.
Gaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Jaden 2018-05-31 07:30

Quote:

As such, there is no "other world line where the dead girl is still alive". It isn't about supposition: it is a fact established in the lore.
Disagree, it's fundamentally a supposition, something akin to the issue of whether a tree falling in a desolate forest makes a sound. Suzuha offers her theory on the matter. There is also a scene in which Kurisu proposes a different one when she advises Okabe on which world to pick. Kurisu prefers to think that she will continue existing either way.

They can't know the truth, because there would be no way to simultaneously observe two worlds. D-mail or the other types of time travel can be thought of as a rearrangement of the world, OR an exchange of information between two worlds.

Whether the author has an answer for this issue is interesting to us, but not to characters in the story.

You could consider whether one of the explanations would cause a paradox, but that's not really helpful because they both violate causality like hell.

As you said, with parallel worlds (not the usual case of infinite worlds in other fiction, but a number limited by the convergence phenomenon of this particular story), the problem is how a branching point can be caused by an event that occurs further down one of the branches.

But the single world rearranging itself has the same problem. How can time travelers possess information from worlds that don't exist?

We know the answer to be simply: magic! Okabe's mystic eyes contain the secret. But that can be used to justify any theory you like, so there's no point in seriously discussing the metaphysics of Steins Gate. Especially if there is already a definite answer in some official material. I can only give my 2 cents on how I think I would process things as a character in the story.

HtwoN 2018-05-31 07:45

What are you on about? :heh:

Time traveling isn't science. It's magic.

Even Kurisu lives in Alpha and Mayuri lives in Beta, both worldlines suck. There is no happy ending for anyone. You have SERN dominating the world in one, and WW3 in the other. No matter which world line, Okabe and Kurisu always die young. The only way to reach a happy ending is to reach S;G.

Klad 2018-05-31 08:13

Hope this does not mark the end of role of Kurisu in this season lol


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