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-   -   [Game] Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Ep. 4 Alliance of the golden witch (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=74652)

Squirrellord 2009-06-07 18:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathkillz (Post 2440506)
Asides of the OOC Kinzo going ";_;" because of Battler, I think that is quite a good idea...

It's indirect and not related to Beato at all...hmm...
But then again, the epitaph was not made 6 years ago (iirc).

lol, the tears part was a joke.
But the epitaph was not there when Battler was around, nor the picture. They only showed up AFTER he left, perhaps even the following year, at least long enough for everyone to find it common knowledge and think nothing of it.

And Rias said
Spoiler for Rias:

Oh! That's true, I never thought of that before...
Then maybe my joke about Kinzo having hopes for him is true XD

Oh, and I think this one is probably obvious, but
Spoiler for Chapter 14:

Rias 2009-06-07 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathkillz (Post 2440558)
Battler already said that to Beato in the meta world as an option but she didn't respond to it so probably not that easy...

She also refused to state in red that the events that happened on the island was because he returned to the family after 6 years.

1. She did, but when he said that, he referred that to "hurting Rudolph by throwing away his name"...which really should be more than just that.

Quote:

・・・・・・・・・・・・・違う。 お前たち家族の、お前の家での話になど興味はない。 ここはどこだ?  六軒島だ。 右代宮本家の本宅である。 ・・・・・・この場所に相応しい、そなたの思い出すべき罪が、ある のではないか・・・・・・?
2. Refuse in red doesn't mean much. She refused to say that there's 17+ in the beginning, but at the end...

chounokoe 2009-06-07 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rias (Post 2440571)
2. Refuse in red doesn't mean much. She refused to say that there's 17+ in the beginning, but at the end...

I only pick that up because I found it interesting myself.
Spoiler for End of Episode 4:

Deathkillz 2009-06-07 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rias (Post 2440571)
1. She did, but when he said that, he referred that to "hurting Rudolph by throwing away his name"...which really should be more than just that.

Nope...it is this paragraph in the meta world which clearly meant he was talking about (and denying) being the cause of this.
Spoiler:


At this point of the game the witch had no interest in fooling around so there was no incentive to hold back on telling him if he had guessed correctly.

Squirrellord 2009-06-07 19:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by chounokoe (Post 2440619)
Spoiler for End of Episode 4:

Spoiler for Counter:

k//eternal 2009-06-07 19:46

Spoiler:

Renall 2009-06-07 22:55

Battler truly is incompetent. A child could do better with the blue text weapon than he did!

Spoiler for Battler's Fate:


Spoiler for Twilight Order:


Spoiler for The Well & Phone Calls:


Spoiler for Nanjo in ep1, Alibis, and 'Murder':


Spoiler for The Boiler Room (ep3):


Spoiler for Natsuhi's Visit to Kinzo (ep1):

Squirrellord 2009-06-07 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renall (Post 2440920)
[

Spoiler for Natsuhi's Visit to Kinzo (ep1):

Spoiler for Magically Appearing Kinzo and general theory on 4:

Renall 2009-06-07 23:56

I think you're complicating things overmuch.

Spoiler for The 'Test':

Jan-Poo 2009-06-07 23:57

Wow just finished it... it was simply fantastic... now I don't even know how should I start telling my impressions and theories there's just too many things to say!!

Anyway I'll try:

Spoiler for Episode4:

Renall 2009-06-08 00:00

Regarding the fourth Siesta...

Spoiler for 556:

k//eternal 2009-06-08 00:01

Battler wasn't actually trying to "get the right answer" so much as "get any answer that doesn't require magic", so the kind of thinking we do in this thread isn't actually required of him. I wouldn't blame the guy.

Anyway, as far as Natsuhi in EP1 goes, I'm convinced she has split personalities (the other being convinced she's Beatrice).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissoci...ntity_disorder

Maybe it's a matter of the symptoms just conveniently fitting the situation, but that incurable headache and that weird feeling she gets when she wakes up? It'd also explain why there's blood on her door. She may have then washed her hands when she got inside.

Anyway, as far as 4's Kinzo sighting...

Spoiler:

Renall 2009-06-08 00:12

The easiest way to figure out Battler's "sin" - although I doubt we'll see anything definite for a while - is to look at when it happened. Six years ago, right?

Well, what happened six years ago? Asumu died. Ange was born. Rudolf married Kyrie. Kyrie ran away from her family, pushing Kasumi into her position. Battler renounced the Ushiromiya family and went to live with Asumu's parents.

Lots of things happened back then. I'm not sure if anything else was mentioned as happening then, but basically if it happened six years ago, it's potentially relevant. But it doesn't seem to be any of these things directly, as Beatrice didn't seem satisfied with Battler's analysis of his family situation, and none of these things directly ought to lead to 18 people dying under mysterious circumstances in and of themselves.

It's probably something indirect. And whatever it is, it upsets Beatrice, even though she claims it isn't between the two of them. Other than Maria, I'm not sure who else Battler's sin could indirectly hurt that would upset her. However, because of the lack of information, we don't even know if it was a sin of action or of omission; that is, was it something Battler did, or was it something that happened because he wasn't there? I don't think that's worth pursuing right now. There really isn't enough evidence.

Rias 2009-06-08 00:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deathkillz (Post 2440625)
Nope...it is this paragraph in the meta world which clearly meant he was talking about (and denying) being the cause of this.
Spoiler:


At this point of the game the witch had no interest in fooling around so there was no incentive to hold back on telling him if he had guessed correctly.


Think about the flow of events that leads to the meta world red text.

Spoiler:


Again, I am not saying that this is the case; just probable.

Aerocross 2009-06-08 01:08

Just finished episode 4, so I'd like to offer a speculation on Battler's death at the end of the episode. Recall that in red, Beato said; "Ushiromiya Battler, at this time, I will kill you. And right now, there is no one on the island other than you. The only one alive on this island is you. Nothing outside the island can interfere in any way. And of course, I am not you. However, I am here now and will kill you." This statement presents an interesting problem with regards to how he died, as it rules out suicide or accidental death. I'm not sure if anyone's tried tackling it in this thread yet (haven't read 54 pages of replies), but I'll take a guess at it.

Spoiler for A guess:


Spoiler for Furthermore:


I have some ideas how these might factor into earlier episodes, but I'll explain them a bit later.

Squirrellord 2009-06-08 01:26

The only thing about that theory, Aerocross, is that Kanon's age has been confirmed as 16. Battler is 18 (at least, Jan-Poo posted on page 82 of the Translation Project thread that it's confirmed ^^; )

izmosmolnar 2009-06-08 01:29

Actually that's a sound idea. That would explain why Kanon-Battler is so reluctant about returning Jessy's feeling (I mean they are blood related after all), why we've never heard his real name. And for some strange reason we've never seen him interacting with Rudolf neither (truthfully he actually kinda reminds me of Rudolf. Even Kyrie thinks so when she said "you surpasses my husband in smooth talk").
I reckon it's not completely impossible.

As for his age, unless it's stated in red he's 16, I won't accept it ;) .

k//eternal 2009-06-08 01:30

On Kanon's age being 16: it's true according to what Jessica says in EP1.

ALTHOUGH we never heard it in red, and I had been wondering about the same thing.

Hareoic 2009-06-08 01:34

Or the "Kanon" personality could be 16 years old.

k//eternal 2009-06-08 01:38

Shipped off at 2, eh? I could buy that. I doubt he'd know his true identity as Battler, though.

I'd been thinking about Asumu-Battler being shipped off to the Fukuin House, but it requires a slightly contrived argument to make him be Kanon. It beats the "Shannon = Kanon" theories, though, in that it doesn't necessarily have massively weird implications.


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