Penguin Drum - Character Discussion - Takakura Kanba
 

The purpose of this thread is to provide a place to discuss all things Takakura Kanba related.

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I like Kanba a lot, although I didn't until episode 5. I think episode 5 gave Kanba the human aspect I needed to feel for his character.

Kanba is arrogant, a play boy, and has probably hurt many girls but I think he DOES care about protecting his family (not just Himari).

As for the whole incest angle well obviously I feel it is wrong to list after your sister but I think it's more of an innocent infatuation and maybe Kanba letting go of Himari is something he will need to do to develop, but who knows.

I do think part of the reason he hurts those girls is because they don't live up to his sister.

However going back to protecting his family: There is the obvious going after the hat scene but then there is also that shady business he is involved in to let them keep their house.


Why I say he cares about Shouma too is he doesn't let Shouma know about what he is involved in. There is also one line in episode 2 or 3 where he tells Shouma to keep his innocence (or something to that effect).

And in episode 10




So yeah Kanba is certainly flawed but human all the same. It's actually the same reason I like Ringo.

Here's an analogy for Kanba's character that might raise some eyebrows. ;)


Kanba is a slightly darker Bruce Wayne.

He's a man totally dedicated to his family, and who engages in the playboy role, even though he takes little satisfaction from it.

He knows how to charm the ladies, and while there may be some moral lines he won't cross, he's not above invading somebody's privacy to get the job done.

He's willing to talk harshly to even his closest friends and allies in order to save the people who matter the most to him, and fight his enemies.

He's frequently surrounded by mentally disturbed psychopaths...







Finally, Kanba deals a lot with penguins...



So, while Kanba has his downsides, I have to admire a man that's this much like Bruce Wayne. ;)

Yes, most of this is tongue-in-cheek, but I'd like to know what my fellow MPD fans think of my analogy here, lol.

The difference is that Ringo's flaws are questioned/challenged by the narrative (specially when Shouma confronts her, but also through the use of symbolism). Kanba's flaws, specially his lack of morals and his inability to care for anyone besides his family, are not. He's mostly depicted in heroic fashion when he's doing things for his family and his flaws are never put on the forefront. In fact, the narrative seems to make an effort to make him appear as a better persona then he really is, which in turn makes me like him less.

I disagree I think the WAY Kanba treats girls is shown to be very negative.

And I also expect that Kanba's feelings for his sister will not be rewarded in the end.

I mean this whole thing with Natsume is probably something Kanba put on himself.

As for the shady stuff Kanba is involved with I am also sure that will come back to bite him too.

I think the next few episode will be Kanba's arc and I believe his careless actions will come back to hurt him. And yes it will be his fault.

But deep down I DO think Kanba is a good guy just like I think Ringo is not a bad person. A character being flawed and being bad are two different things.

You think so? Except for some halfhearted comments by Shouma, I don't remember the story caring too much about Kanba's attitude with the ladies.

That's still in the air though....

Maybe, maybe not. As of now, the story has brushed off all that stuff, which is part of my problem.

Maybe, but again, it hasn't happened yet, so I can't count on that.

I never said he was "bad". I just said the story doesn't challenge his flaws and values the way it does other characters, which is true.

The story has mainly focused on Ringo's story but has given us hints of Kanba's story as well.

He is being taunted by Natsume who is using his past negative relationships with girls. So it doesn't seem brushed off to me at all.




But it is already starting..just in this last episode when Kanba makes fun of all the gifts he was given by girls he is confronted by these gifts.


We still don't know what Natsume's relationship to Kanba is. Was she a scorned suitor or something else? Were those her gifts or the gifts of other girls Kanba has scorned and she stole their memories?

Either way I think the story has shown that Kanba will have problems ahead and this is just the start.

Well, the ladies themselves seemed to care. :heh:

Having a bunch of people pissed off with you like that isn't the end of the world, but it's certainly not ideal either.

I don't think the anime presents his playboy quality in a particularly positive or a negative light. It just is.

In fact, having watched a lot of modern anime, my suspicion is that MPD will argue the following about Kana...

See? We still don't know anything. For all we know Natsume could be just a Ringo-like obsessed bi*ch. We still have yet to see something clear about Kanba being in the wrong here.

EDIT
But that's the problem. For example, even Shouma's morals are challenged: Kanba accused him of not caring enough about Himari, more than once; Ringo accused him of using his morals as a front to avoid facing Himari, etc. Nobody has called Kanba on his sh*t like that. Things may change in future episodes but that's how they are right now.

I am not quite sure how much more clear they can be without revealing everything. We don't know what Kanba did, but we know he did something.

As Natsume taunted him through the entire episode:


Do You Remember

If we don't know what he did, then we don't know if what he did was bad either, which was kinda my point. So why are we even arguing about this?

The thing is, who's going to call out Kanba? Shouma is much too soft for that. Ringo is likely oblivious to Kanba's more questionable activities, as she's wrapped up in her own romantic/familial concerns.

So that leaves Himari. My sense is that if Himari challenges Kanba on his playboy activities, it will be a watershed moment... and, yes, a watershed moment that will likely lead into Kanba/Himari.

So I think the anime is saving this for later, since it'll be a big, and possibly climatic moment.


I don't think Kanba's playboy lifestyle will be "just there" forever. I think it will play into wherever the anime decides to go when it comes to Kanba and Himari.

I just am saying for me all the signs point to it being something bad. I am not trying to argue with you...Just a discussion. Hey I know my words won't change your mind just saying why I see things differently. :)


But I will add one more thing: Natsume makes reference to the story of Theseus

"The Treacherous hero who followed Ariadne's red thread"

In the myth Ariadne who loves Theseus helps him escape through the Labyrinth. But after he escapes he deserts her.

By that same token, we don't know anything about Kanba's relationships with past girls either.

Did he cheat on them? Did he just go from girl to girl with no pause or attraction? Was he the one who approached them or did they approach him? How many of them has he actually dated? Why did he date them? How long did he date them? Did he enjoy going out with them? Was the romance entirely one sided? How long between girls?

For all we know he could just always be pursued by girls and has decided to indulge in a few becasue he honestly felt something for them, only to end up disappointed and dumped them.

Having dated many girls does not in itself = bad.

Its how he treated those girls while he went out with them that matters. And as for breaking up with them? People get hurt in relationships. Its normal and can't really be helped. Better to break it off before things get too serious and someone gets seriously hurt.

The way he talked about those girls' gifts comes off to me more like they were trying to seduce him/ early days of the relationship and he found it creepy and too much too soon.

I mean wedding cake? Urgh, wrongsick.

Basically he spoke like they were unwanted advances.

So far, the only girls I remember him interacting with are the girl on the train he flirted with to get his bro out of trouble, Ringo who he disliked cause she is a crazy stalker, Himari who he loves, and the brief interaction he had with the girls whose memories were erased, which was more him going WTF than anything else.


As you've said, Shoma has called him on it, though not made a huge deal of it. The girls themselves were obviously not happy either. Ep 10 was just an endless stream of shoving his past actions with girls into his face, though we don't know what will happen next.

So far, the series has foced on Shoma and Ringo, so of course their flaults have been explored and called out on. Now that the focus has shifted to Kamba, his faults have a chance of being explored.

Which is very convenient and manipulative, since in the meantime we have to see him being depicted as the hero he really isn't.

But it's not only the playboy thing. What about the fact he doesn't care about anyone besides his family? For example, when he went to see Kuho at the hospital it was pretty obvious he didn't care about her state, and was there only because he thought her accident was related to the penguindrum somehow. That, for me, is even worst than being a playboy, and I really want the story to call him on that shit in some way. But as things stand now I know I shouldn't expect that because I can tell Ikuhara has a freaking fetish with Kanba. I still hope so, though.

Well, there's something that maybe we should consider here.

Maybe Ikuhara is sincerely arguing through the MPD narrative that family should come first, and that it's right for people to deeply care about their parents and siblings, and to go to somewhat extreme lengths for them.

Kanba and Ringo are the proactive protagonists of this anime so far, and each has had many scenes where s/he's made to look 'cool'. Both have also gone to extreme lengths for the sake of family.

Shouma is the all-around nice guy who hesitates to take extreme measures to help his sister, and he's been victimized by the plot more than anybody else. If this anime has a "buttmonkey", it's Shouma. :heh:


At this juncture, maybe we should seriously consider that this does in fact reflect Ikuhara's personal worldview.

We don't need to agree with Ikuhara's worldview, of course, but maybe this is what he's saying.

I'd say that be completely contrary to his views if we consider the family relationships in Utena. For example Nanami and Touga, she put him above everyone else and was cruel to others because of that. It was portrayed very negatively in that light and in the end, she got better, i.e got past that obsession. Same thing can be said of Miki and Kozue to a somewhat different extent.

I expect him to take some middle ground on both guys are extremes are called extreme for a reason. You can almost always accomplish something without going to them.

While I get where you're coming from, I fail to see how caring about your family first means not to care about anyone else at all.

Shouma is definitely the buttmonkey, yeah, but Ringo has been made fun of quite a bit too. It's only Kanba, IMO, who is mostly depicted in a positive fashion despite his flaws.

I do think you're onto something here, and yeah, if what I've seen so far truly reflects Ikuhara's overall message then I definitely don't agree with it.

The problem is it is hard to judge characters at this point of the series when we have lack of information especially since this series is meant to be mysterious. I suppose everyone approaches that differently.

Like I said I didn't like Kanba until episode 5 until I saw some positive traits mixed in with the bad. Caring about your family is admirable, but yes Kanba has to learn family isn't the only thing that is important.

I expect Kanba will learn from his mistakes before the end. Maybe I am acting on faith and not everyone can do that.

Edit: Nanami was also my favorite Utena character and I see similarities with her and Kanba. Not that I am saying Kanba is my favorite from this series. It's way too early for me to say that.

i also like kanba, though not as much as shoma at this point. i do think that his playboy thing is a tad exaggerated. we basically got that assessment from shoma

and yeah while kanba does seem to have a lot of ex girlfriends (especially after the gift spiel), i can't help but be reminded by how kanba's been pretty shady so far, acquiring money from the kiga (or half-shaded) penguin group. which is curiously the same logo their dad had on his shirt.

idk, maybe kanba is using the playboy thing as a convenient cover-up to his actual activities? not to mention, he's a total siscon and fighting hard for his family in general.

I thought it was pretty nice of him to visit Kuho, bring flowers and so. She's only his ex after all. I means it's not that fishy (more like "penguin~y") about an idol falling down the stair and forgetting the identity of her attacker.

He could just pay a visit to check out her well being. Then if it somehow relates to the penguin, it will be within his priority to search for a clue. If it's not it's still simply a sick visit to holdup the contact. Clearly he didn't just barge in empty hand trying to get as much information as he can

I just interpreted that scene in a different way. Remember he had received a mail from her previously, saying she knew what he was looking for. So the potential connection with the penguidrum was already established, and for me it was clear he went there for that reason. Plus, he didn't seem too concerned about the attack on his other exes either. He was surprised, yes, but didn't even tried to help them or anything.

I agree - who knows if Kanba is actually a playboy? I kind of doubt it actually, since he hasn't chased a single girl since the show began.

The only things we know is that he dated at least 3 girls and broke up with them (honestly, without knowledge of what when on, isn't that bad - I know lots of people with worse track records) The girls were mad, but then again, that doesn't necessarily mean Kanba is bad - maybe he broke up in a bad manner, or the girls just never wanted to break up) and that Shoma calls him a playboy, but in Shoma's innocent/pure mindview, maybe he's making bigger deal out of it that it actually is - or is just teasing him.

I mean Shoma freaked out about Kanba entering a girl's bedroom because it was a girl's room. Heck with that reaction, maybe having dated someone and breaking up with them. WOULD seem like an out of control playboy!

Maybe it has to do with the fact that Himari, you know, died when the show began? It makes a lot of sense he stopped chasing skirts since then. All in all, I don't see any reason to believe he's not as much a playboy as he's made to be.

i guess. it just doesn't seem to fit imo. he seems more indifferent to girls and their advances (his attitude toward gifts for one) than actually "chasing" girls.

not to mention himari, she's extremely important to him regardless of whether or not we want to take the siscon thing at face value.

I disagree. He was just talking about gift he didn't like, which is a totally different matter. If he was so indifferent he wouldn't have three exes (including a teen model) and Natsume as a potential fourth.

Well, the siscon thing is pretty much in our face anyway. But think about it. Being a playboy may be how he deals with his feelings for Himari.

That's what I think too. And doesn't it make him more forgivable?

It would mean that he's not just a simple skirt-chaser, but rather he's a guy trying to find someone who can capture his heart so that these romantic feelings he has for his sister can go away.

I find such a thought... pitiable. Not admirable really (as he's hurt a lot of girls in the process), but still pitiable.

Not necessary.

I don't think he's doing this to find someone he can love; I think he's just trying to avoid facing the issue. He can't have Himari, so to relief his frustration he goes out with whoever he can. That's my take on him for now.

Disclaimer - playing Devil's Advocate

Yes, but how much time has passed between the beginning of the show and now?

I mean yes, it makes sense that he wouldn't go out searching for girls the day she died, but I don't know. He doesn't even seem to notice other females at all more so than the regular teenage boy does. He also doesn't completely tune them out (ie when Penguin 1 had the camera on in episode 2 and they got the panty shot - that was right after Himari died, and I remember he craned his head to get an even better view, so he isn't not paying attention to girls in favor of Himari, too.

To be honest, I don't see anything in his interest in females that seems more than the average 16 year old boy (I teach and live at a boys boarding school - I see them here and when we combine with girls schools for dances all day long, and on weekends) besides the siscon thing. I sure know 16 year old boys that don't necessary only date one girl and never break up, and may switch to another girl - seems weird to label that behavior for a teenager as a playboy.

Shoma, on the other, seems FAR less interested in girls than the average 16 year old boy, which is why I say that his point of view may be slightly skewed.

He could or could not be a playboy - but I don't see anything to hint that he is definitely a playboy except that Shoma says it, and Shoma tends to freak out over little things, like walking into a girl's bedroom. Kanba's dated three girls (maybe 4) - but at the same time? over 3 years? who knows? I just don't see enough to throw him to the dogs, either.

They said in episode four that they gathered his "romantic victims". 3 romantic victims doesn't really seem like playboy material. Maybe he just broke up with them and they didn't want to break up.

And if one of those girls really did a wedding cake (hint at marriage), maybe he was right to get the hell away from that. a 16 year old boy shouldn't be dealing with that. Shoma sure freaked out when her through Project M was for marriage.

I really like Kanba (yeah, more than Shouma) I think he's pretty badass and quite mysterious...we still don't really know a lot about him. Other than that he knows some shady people, will do anything for his family, & his popularity with girls. I want to see his character develop more & hopefully that will be soon xD

I'm a novel reader, and to answer properly I would need to post spoilers, which I won't do. So I'll just say that if you think Shouma would exaggerate about Kanba being a playboy, you don't know Shouma. He wouldn't say Kanba's a playboy unless he had seen it with his own eyes. That's the kinda guy he is.

I do agree that Kanba is/was a playboy. However at least part of the time Shouma thinks Kanba is out with girls he is really involved in whatever that shady business is to let them keep their house. Although maybe it is all connected.

Now that is something I really want to know about.

Although I don't think anything in the novel is really spoiler. I think it just adds extra details and clarifies things. It follows the anime exactly.

Something that maybe should be considered here: Perhaps there's cultural differences at play here?

A guy in his mid-to-late teens having dated 3 or 4 girls over a few years is not especially noteworthy in modern America... but maybe it is in modern Japan? I'm not Japanese, so I wouldn't know.

So maybe from Shouma's cultural perspective, a guy that does that is a bit of a playboy. In other words, the very term "playboy" has meanings relative to the culture it's used within.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious that since Himari died and revived, Kanba has stopped wasting his time trying to get laid and has refocused his efforts on investigating about the penguindrum and getting money for this family.

No it has more to do with Kanba's attitude towards the girls he goes out with than the number of girls and such. Unfortunately in the anime we don't get to hear about this because there's no narration.

Well at least I think getting money for the family might have started before Himari died. You know all that high tech stuff he did to track Ringo in episode 2?

I think he knew how to do that stuff because of whatever shady business he is involved with. And I think he has been involved for awhile.

how do we know it's since himari died though? from what i'm gathering, their parents have been out of the picture for awhile now so maybe kanba's been shadily getting money longer than we think?

but your idea on kanba using other girl's to veer away away from his sister is very interesting.

Yes, I do agree he must have been doing whatever he does to get money since before the Himari thing.

I'm glad you found it interesting.

No that had to have started before Himari died. I remember him with a set of burglar tools using them expertly to get into Ringo's house, and seemed awesome with ideas of surveillance - in episode two. Those had to have been in place before Himari died.

I don't see it as a sudden flick of a switch shift of his personality shifted when Himari died - his personality is probably the same before as later.

That was part the point I was trying to make before - I haven't seen anything in the anime to suggest that his behavior is definitely different now than it was prior to Himari dying. In fact, remembering what he said right after Himari died, when they were in the hospital, his character has been pretty consistent all the way through, from when they thought she was dead and after she revived.

That's exactly what I said so I don't know why you said No. :)

Maybe because I said might. I guess that might wasn't needed.

I feel like I'm in the minority here, but Kanba is my favorite character so far. He's the most intriguing of the characters IMO. I started off liking Shoma best, and I still like him, but the fact that he's with Ringo so much has brought him down for me. Not that I don't like Ringo...it's just that I think her plot is kind of boring and I wish they'd focus more on the three siblings.

But Kanba has become my favorite faster than I expected, and I didn't even like him all that much to begin with. The kiss in the first episode got me intrigued but other than that I didn't really think much of him. He grew on me though. He's so mysterious and I want to know more about his past. He obviously loves his family a lot and wants to keep them together, which is admirable. The whole playboy thing on the other hand isn't admirable, but I'll reserve my judgement on that until we know the whole situation. Of course, he may just turn out to be a "playboy with a heart of gold" or something like that. :P

I actually think the thing with Himari is kind of sweet... I realized that I really liked the pairing after episode 10, when they had their discussion in the cafeteria. Before that point Himari and Kanba hadn't really spent much one on one time together and whenever Himari was in a room with Sho and Kan, she'd usually address Sho. It seems like she prefers him. So it was nice to see the two of them have some time together. (I'm not bothered by the fact that they're siblings - a clear sign that I've watched too much anime, I think. XD)