...I will say though that even after accepting that Rebellion makes sense, it's still nowhere near as well-paced as the show. Many things drag out for longer than they should, and certain elements seem to have been added less because they actually helped the story and more just for fanservice. I'm sure those who have seen the movie know which certain elements I'm referring to here.

Watching Rebellion on bluray than on theaters have the same effect....lots of headaches and emotions mixed in.

The additions and corrections Shaft made helped a lot replicating that effect while watching on TV . :D :eyespin: :D :eyespin:

Everything from the box cover to the bonuses to the re-polished movie itself is worth the money.

That's impossible, because the Blu-Rays don't come out for another few days.

In Japan, it releases April 2nd. Online orders shipped earlier. Ergo, it is out. Hence why there are bluray rips available already.

Some people receive their shipping notice as early as Sunday mornings and get their packages as early from Sunday afternoon to Monday mornings here in Tokyo. Regular arrivals are usually one day before the sale date but it varies on some occasions. Sometimes you can just ask the on-the-counter clerks on animate/toranoana days before the sale date and they'll give you a copy right away.

You'll get lucky sometimes. :D

I see: thanks for clearing that up :)

So I was scrolling through people's reviews for this show, and I came across a rather critical yet fair review of it. I want to know what you think of this guy's critiques. Do you agree or disagree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cb31LPMz0As

It' okay. It's a good review, but I can't say I agree with some of his criticisms. Stuff about characters has been touched on. I'm surprised he didn't like the way the magical and wish-making "rules" were handled. Huh. I did enjoy his playing around with the title, though I am convinced that at no point did he pronounce it properly.

I also like that he suggested other anime. Utena's great, Berserk seemed a little left field to me, but I'm not so familiar with that particular series so...

So I've been re-reading Booker's The Seven Basic Plots and I've been astounded by how well Madoka fits into this organization. I thought I would post my thoughts here.

The first five of The Seven Basic Plots are:

Overcoming the Monster: There is monster, the hero must defeat it. Examples: Beowulf, Jaws.

Rags to Riches: The hero is poor (usually young) and must grow and rise to independence, founding their own "kingdom." Often seen today as a Coming Of Age story. Examples: Aladdin, David Copperfield.

The Quest: The hero goes on a quest. Examples: The Odyssey, Watership Down.

Voyage and Return: The Hero enters a Magical Land where normal rules don't apply, happily explores for a while, then encounters a darker side of things. He conquers or escapes, in the process overcoming a character flaw, and returns to his home wiser for the experience. Examples: Robinson Crusoe, Alice In Wonderland.

Comedy: Hero and Heroine are destined to get together, but a dark force (perhaps inside one of the protagonists, or a series of misunderstandings) is preventing them from doing so. A cascade of effects takes place that reveals the truth of things. The dark force repents or is banished, and suddenly the Hero and Heroine are free to get together. Examples: Pride And Prejudice, Much Ado About Nothing.

The sixth basic plot is Tragedy. A story in which the hero falls, and is destroyed by his flaws.

Each of the first five plots has a "dark" version, that can potentially form the kernel of tragedy. Let's look at Madoka Magica with these plots:

Overcoming the Monster: The first three episodes depict a clear Overcoming the Monster plot with Mami as the heroine. It's why the end to episode three is so very very shocking. Instead of the heroine defeating the monster, the monster kills and eats the heroine. It is an Overcoming the Monster story gone wrong in the worst way possible. Mami's forgivable flaw of showing off to her new friends after having been lonely for so long results in her death.

Rags to Riches: Episodes 4 to 9. This story is mainly told with as back story from Kyoko who is clearly in a Rags to Riches story gone wrong. Her family is poor and hungry. Kyoko gets a wish, and uses it to provide her family with riches (both monetary and fame/respect). Her wish backfires and destroys her family. Instead of becoming independent and establishing her own extension of civilization, she reverts to the ruthless law of the jungle. Forgetting her morals and dreams, she survives, but without joy. When she returns to her moral self, prompted by the example of Sayaka, the best she can get is a bittersweet ending of Redmption Equals Death.

Comedy: Episodes 4 to 9. Entwined with Kyoko's bad end Rags To Riches story is Sayaka's story. The most developed and fleshed out of all the stories, it is interesting because Sayaka is the only character who perceives the story she is in. Sayaka pines for Kyousuke, but he lies under a cloud of darkness. Crippled and deprived of his ability to play the violin he has lost all joy in life.

Genre savvy Sayaka sees how the Comedy ought to play out: She heals Kyousuke of his darkness, restoring him to wholeness of spirit (which is even more important then healing his hand), he perceives the truth that she has loved him and that they belong together. They are united in joy.

But Sayaka is wrong genre savvy. Yes she is in a (dark) comedy, but she is not the heroine. Truths are revealed, but not the ones Sayaka expected: Kyubee deceived her. Sayaka is a zombie, a monster, unable to have children. Tainted and impure. Her best friend Hitomi loves Kyousuke (which would fit in a normal Rom-Com as an obstacle to overcome, but now that she is the tainted one, Sayaka interprets this as the revelation of the true heroine). The darkness in Kyousuke has been transplanted to her, and so she must be the one banished to allow the hero and heroine to be united.

Not surprising that she has mermaid symbolism, when you consider that The Little Mermaid is a tragic end to a comedy plot.

We'll come back and look at Sayaka's story a bit more since it follows a lot of tragedy tropes. Let us just note here that Sayaka was explicitly warned about her damning flaw by Mami. Sayaka didn't just want to heal Kyousuke, as the heroine in a Comedy would. Sayaka wanted to ''be'' the heroine that healed Kyousuke, with all the plot developments that would flow from that fact in a Comedy. Her own genre savvy nature allowed the flaw that doomed her.

The Quest: Episode 10 shows us Homura's story. She is on a quest, a quest to save her friend, Madoka. She must find the narrow path through this maze. The correct decisions that avoid two dangers: Keep Madoka from making a contract, but still defeat Walpurgisnacht. The Deadly Opposites described in Booker's list of elements of Quest stories.

However, there are several disturbing things about this quest. Where are her companions? Heroes in quest stories are supposed to have companions.

Why has she become so cold and ruthless? Homura appears to have become so obsessed with her quest object that she is willing to sacrifice anything and anyone to achieve this goal. Even a mutual friendship with Madoka. Is there anything more clearly tragic then this?

In episode 11, despite her ruthlessness Homura is still incapable of actually achieving her quest end, and she must either die or reset to the beginning. Now that is tragic.

Careful consideration of Homura's wish makes it clear that she has the same flaw as Sayaka, with an added bonus. Homura does not wish for Madoka's life, or safety. Homura wishes that she can redo their meeting so that ''she'' will be the one to protect Madoka instead of the other way around. The explicit wish that Homura makes is to usurp Madoka's role as protector. It's not even a wish to join her in a team, it's explicitly a wish to switch roles with her.

Not only does Homura want to be the one to save Madoka, instead of just wanting to save Madoka. Homura also does not want Madoka to save her. (I would have considered this just poor wording except that Rebellion clearly supports this interpretation.)

Voyage and Return: In episode 10 we also get to see enough of Madoka's story that combined with the previous nine episodes we can infer her story. Madoka has all the hallmarks of a Voyage and Return story. She enters the world of Magical Girls in awe and wonder. She discovers the dark side. Unlike a happy story however, she doesn't learn enough until too late. Madoka dies, or becomes a witch and destroys the world, and then is reset to the beginning, having forgotten all she had learned. Madoka's flaw is clearly her naivety, and the reset with forgetting prevents her from overcoming it.

In each of these sub-stories the girls are doomed by their flaws. Unlike most tragedies which require repeated or blatant violations of morals to doom a hero, Urobuchi is arguing that even the best of humanity is flawed in such a way as to doom us. (This is the concept that makes Madoka so very Christian, in way even most nominally Christian literature is not). Foibles we forgive in others and ourselves, Urobuchi identifies as damning.

Let us consider Booker's concept of Tragedy in more detail:

Booker identifies the Call To Adventure as the first sign of the difference between a Tragedy and one of the other traditional stories. In normal stories the call is something that the hero should clearly accept. In Tragedies, the Call is presented as Temptation.

This is why so many of us realized that something wasn't right in Madoka Magica, even before episode 3. The invitations to Kyoko, Sayaka, and Madoka to become magical girls are clearly presented as a temptation. To the point that by episode 7 Kyubee is paraphrasing the serpent from the garden of Eden. "You will be as the Gods!"

Sayaka, as the most developed story, incorporates almost all the elements of Tragedy that Booker identifies. The "Dream Stage" when everything seems to be perfect, (Sayaka's "I won't regret this" scene on the roof). The divided self in which a darkness grows inside the protagonist. The four omens proceeding the end: Death of the Mentor (Mami), Excessive Hostility to the Rival (Homura), Rejection of the Innocent Girl trying to dissuade the protagonist from his path (Madoka), the Temptress (Kyoko) who either joins the protagonist in death, or abandons him. References to the protagonist as a monster (by Sayaka herself). The final act of violence that "irreversibly" dooms her.

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After all this we get Episode 12, the final episode, when the story becomes one of Rebirth, the seventh basic plot.

Mami, Sayaka, and Kyoko are dead. Homura has been defeated. Then Madoka arrives at the scene. She who is the weakest of the characters. She has not made a wish, and so has no magical powers like the other girls. Madoka's one flaw was her naivety, but now over the past 11 episodes she has grown in wisdom and knowledge. This is the point were in all the other timelines she failed, but she will not fail this time.

Madoka wishes that she will stop every Magical Girl that is, that was, and that ever shall from becoming witches.

Kyubee denies her wish, saying it is impossible. Cause must have an effect, and the choices the girls made has led to unhappiness and despair. ''Someone'' has to bear that burden.

Madoka says that she will take all their grief and sorrow. She will bear it.

Kyubee tempts her. She will be forgotten, her wish will take her outside the timestream. No one will remember her sacrifice. No one will mourn her.

Madoka does not care. She is not wishing to be remembered as the person who will save all Magical Girls. She is wishing to save the Magical Girls.

It is as clear a Christ figure as I have ever seen in fiction. This is essentially a "free will" argument, which is a common Christian explanation as to why God allows bad things to happen and then sent Jesus to redeem people instead of just preventing the bad things in the first place.

With the recent ending of Purim I have also reflected that in many ways Madoka is an Esther figure as well. These motifs match well with the Young Woman who saves the hero that is typical for a Rebirth story.

We then have a short epilogue:

Mami is restored to life. She mentors other magical girls, and fights with them to protect people from the grief demons (who have replaced the witches that are no more). She is now the heroine she was meant to be.

Kyoko is restored to life. She now has created a family with Mami, her mentor who in the previous timeline she had been estranged from. She is a source of civilization in the world.

Homura has a new quest. She asked Madoka for one gift before they parted, that Homura would remember Madoka. Her new quest is to protect all these, who Madoka loved. No longer alone she has Mami and Kyoko by her side to help, and Madoka's promise to her "Even if you can't see me, even if you can't hear me, I will always be with you."

Sayaka doesn't get what she wanted. Hitomi and Kyousuke are destined for each other, but it was through Sayaka that Kyousuke was healed of his darkness and that they could be united. Instead of a despairing tragic end, Sayaka dies heroically and successfully protecting others. Madoka chats with her, and confirms that Sayaka is happy with this ending, and Sayaka enters into rest in happiness with Madoka.

All has been set right. The world is now one in which happy endings can come true.

This is one of the reasons why Madoka Magica is so effective. All seven basic plots are used and well executed.

Recently I recommended my sister to watch MadoMagi, just because she knew I bought the Rebellion Bluray (also helped me to pick the parcel at post office).

Hence I let her watch the first 2 recap movies, instead of TV version first. However she didn't like the entire story, after she watched all the recap movies...

But she did quite like 'the black-haired one' (Homura), mostly because of her looking & abilities. ;)

In my opinion, perhaps PMMM is not suit for anyone to watch, especially the peoples that seldom watch Animes... (My sister is more often watch live-action dramas instead...)

Posts like that Sackett, make me almost wish we still had reputation :heh:, as someone whom isn't writer savvy or such, I found the analysis and break down of it interesting and enjoyable to read and showed a reason for the show's success I had never considered, great post :).

^Agreed, that analysis was an eye-opener for me, and good food-for-thought as well, especially the parts about Sayaka and Homura. Another proof that MadoMagi is more than meets the eye. :heh:

I finally got myself the UK release of the series and decided to give a chance to the dub. I left it playing in the background and was surprised by how well cast Sayaka was. I switched between the dub and the original and for a moment I wondered if the japanese seyuu had learned english or something. The voice is really spot on.

However I was still disapointed by virtually everything else. Call it prejudice but I just can't really get used to dubs and the more I learn of the Japanese language the harder it is for me :heh:

Also I hadn't heard the ED they added to the first episode on the Blu-Ray release. Talk about trolling the audience :p

In the spirit of the Youtube series "What's the damage", a full estimate of cost of Homura's fight with Walpurgisnacht, including both military hardware (previously fan-estimated at ¥ 1,383,040,300/$17,037,114) and property damage.

Military hardware expended: $17,037,114

10 Destroyed Skyscrapers (assumed ~60 stories): $420 million each, total $4.2 billion

2 Destroyed Free-Standing Towers: ~$400 million each, total $800 million

2 Destroyed Small (~12 stories) Apartment Towers: ~ $180 million, $360 million total

At least Ten Large Commercial/Industrial Buildings Destroyed (assumed ~40,000 square feet): $800,000 each, total $8 million.

At least 18 more Skyscrapers Destroyed: $420 million each: $7,560,000,000

Total Damage: at least $12,945,037,114 or ¥ 1,437,999,435,937

Biggest Benefactor: Construction Industry

Yea, but it's for a good cause. The witches must be stopped! Collaterial damage is the price to pay for justice.

Homura is a real murican.

"Whatcha gonna do, Kyubey, when the 24-inch missiles run wild on you?!" - Homura

Sorry, I couldn't resist. :heh: :p

Ah, lol, I see you caught on. And yes, this is foreshadowing for my actual post on the movie, and yes, it will have Hulk Hogan for reasons that belong over in that thread.

I watched the show a few weeks ago and I really love it.
I had a few complains early on,like "kyubey stare is a bit creepy",but later on I undestood that most them were put there on purpose.
Well played Mr. Urobuchi,well played.

From AX2014 Gen panel:

>魔法少女まどかマギカは、勢いに任せて書ききった作品。当初はまさかこれほど世界中の人々に見られるよう なアニメになるとは思っていなかったと述べ、続編については、今、必死にシャフトと一緒に続きを考えている 最中。

>Gen wrote PMMM with momentum from the very beginning to the conclusion. He didn't expect this show would become this famous and got many fans world-widely. On a sequel, he's now thinking its continuation desperately with Shaft.

Make sense I guess. The last movie just left everyone in the middle of nowhere.