Why does most harem anime tend to have uninteresting male leads?
 

Truthfully, i'm a big fan of harem anime (particularly Tenchi series, including Isekai no Seikishi). During this time i've been looking for a harem title with "real" protagonist with big balls. Unfortunately, in the end i just got bored since many harem stories that look stupid because of their uninteresting male leads. What i found though, most male leads usually :

- plain, not ugly, just plain looking

- "slice of life" type guy. Leads a normal, boring life with no interesting activities

- non-action guy, he won't put a fight unless it's the very last episode and he's also mediocre at best

- stupid, not the smart type, must rely on his partner or best friend

- unpopular with normal girls, but popular with cutest girls, even though he barely does anything worthy towards them.

- inhumanly dense, even though girls around him clearly show affections toward him.

- getting abused by the tsundere girls all the time while he can't do anything about it.

- boring, dull personality, with no outstanding qualities aside of being a nice guy.

My point is, why those story writers love to use such flawed male leads? Or alternatively, why not just make the MC cooler/funnier/more awesome so that the story became more interesting?

I think it has to do with the Japanese inferiority mindset. They basically want the viewer to self-insert and think, "hey, I'm cooler than this guy in _____ ways! I could totally be in a situation like this, and I'd actually have sex with these girls!" (note that in 99% of harem animes, that never happens, even off screen)

I thought it was because the kind of character created is necessary for the story being told. Every element has a reason for being the way it is, and the character traits are necessary for maintaining that balance in keeping the premise going.

Probably to get empathy from the audience."That guy is a loser just like me, but he's swarmed in girls!

It seems like you people don't really give much thought into this, Midonin has the right idea though.


Ever noticed that in shoujo series the exact same thing happens but with reverse gender? Normal protagonists, whether male or female, are used to show how abnormal or special the love interests are, I believe someone once said that the goal is to have the audience fall in love with the love interest just as the protagonist is doing the same... Which I thought was an interesting concept.


There's a need for some contrast because normal + normal = boring, but at the same time special + special = normal because if everybody is special, then nobody is.


Now, why not make a special protagonist with normal love interests? Well yes you can do it and I'm certain there are shows like that, but seriously are you watching the show for the guy or the girls (reverse for shoujo) ? Even then, people are still going to whine that it's wish-fulfillment to be some badass pimp who is a one-man-army that can do everything so you're screwed either way... Might as well go for a 'David vs Goliath' scenario where a normal protagonist wins the heart of a beautiful lover... There's a higher chance for people to root for an underdog, plus it's easier and more interesting to write about uphill battles than curbstomping ones.

If the lead guy is good and assertive to the women then there's no point in it. It's best for the women to be the one trying to get closer to the lead guy, That's what the harem's lead guy's traits.

So that the audience can more easily project onto the protagonist.

Same goes with shoujo...

Hmmm, How about Sword Art Online?

I think this is exactly right. I think it's less about "projection" or "self-insert" as much as it's about what's necessary to make the story work.

This may seem ironic in a way, but a flawed protagonist is necessary to maintain the suspension of disbelief -- not as to why girls are interested in him in the first place (though that is usually addressed to some degree, but doesn't honestly matter too much), but why the "harem" status quo can be maintained for so long. If the guy is good looking and he knows it, and has no hesitation at all about the situation he's in, then he would just be a womanizer, and having a harem lead who actually sleeps around is not (usually) part of the fantasy. So the lead has to have some sort of justifiable inferiority complex (or plain inferiority) or some strong sense of morality that counters the situation he's in. So either a) he can't be particularly smart, or b) he can't be particularly handsome, or c) he has to be dense about the feelings of the women around him, or d) he has to be fixated on "true love" (either as an unreachable person or as a general concept), or... so on. Something so that he isn't taking advantage of the women who love him, or deliberately messing with their feelings.

And the other point that was already alluded to is that the main character has to be adaptable to the situation. This is because the heroines are the real stars of the show (not the protagonist), so the protagonist has to be able to fit into their context when the plot demands it. Harem anime tend to be filled with as diverse a cast as characters as possible (and that's one reason why so many take place in high school -- where else would a diverse group of characters with little else in common commonly congregate?), so that makes the protagonist's "neutrality" a valuable asset in the story. This is why whatever strengths or abilities he has are generally only "useful, general traits" but nothing too highly-specialized. If he's too highly-specialized, then that means that all the rest of the heroines will be more connected to his specialization too, and that may narrow your target audience if they can't identify with whatever it is the cast is interested in.

I think there are some harem anime that have interesting protagonists as far as it goes, but again, the protagonist in these shows is really only the vehicle through which the plot unfolds. You generally want them to stay out of the spotlight more often than not.

Adding more to the "male lead reflecting the male audience" concept: keep in mind that a number of harem titles are based on "visual novels" in which the player assumes the role of the male lead, with him seeing things from his POV. As such, these characters do tend to lack the personality that is found in the females that are interested in him.

One of the reasons people often move over to "seinen romance" after a few (dozen) shounen harem series. You get stronger (or at least more varied) male leads and often more complex female characters. There are usually external reasons for delaying coupling up, or the personalities themselves have to adjust to each other.

Let me add in another little detail- it also has to do with the show you're watching, and namely its timeslot. I've seen a lot of harems that fall under most peoples' radar, due to a lot of the reasons stated in the first post, shows such as: Magikano, Omamori Himari, Freezing (okay, I think this one had a bit more popularity... maybe), etc. and they all had the male protagonist being a guy who did nothing incredible until the last few episodes. Now for the part where I start making assumnptions and could be wrong on any of these aspects: I'm sure they all were in the timeslot of "late night anime" (I could be wrong on this), and half the shows that premier during this timeslot are otaku-pandering, or so I've heard; i.e. this means they're being watched mostly for the assets of the ladies (quick disclaimer- I'm well aware there are other late-night anime shows, but those mainly seem to be on due to blood and gore).

In fact, my personal favorite harems are ones where the guy is able to be just as awesome, if not even more so than the ladies- Daimou is one of my favorites, and just recently I've fallen in love with Hagure Yuusha. I know what the flaw of Daimou is (wants to become a great Priest but is destined to be Demon King), but Hagure Yuusha... well, admittedly I haven't had enough time to get past episode 3, but I think it's because he's been charged with keeping the daughter of the demon king he defeated under his watch

The MC in harems, be it boy or girl, is that they're basically the POV of the audience.

The problem isn't with the male characters, but with your flawed definition of "(un)interesting" instead.
I'm seriously baffled as to how you got the idea that his behaviour would be "real". The male characters in most harems are regular students who live regular lifes, their balls are as big as most peoples were in that age.

Maybe you're an extra hardcore kind of guy who would nail his osananajimi on a daily basis while still finding the time to enjoy the rest of his harem, but that's neither "real" nor particularly interesting. There are of course occasional harems like this (kore wa zombie..), but these usually tend to be a lot more comedy-focused.

There are plenty of good reasons as to why most harem leads act similiar, again, they are simply regular japanese students. Maybe you should avoid harems with a school setting instead, but then again, who would want a Harem of old hags?

95% of all the shows we talk about ARE late night Animes =_= Not just Harem or violent shows, even SOLs and parody comedies are late night Animes.

The only shows that are during the day are young children stuff, as well as some of the more popular shounen adaptation.

Perhaps... it's harder to find more "Alpha Male archetypes" in Japan. :heh::cool: Funny thing is: the number of characters, who can be described as such have dwindled.

In fact, here's a challenge. Point out some harem male characters more alpha than this dude:

That's true to an extent, but there are also great harem manga DO have an interesting male lead.

I think the bet example of this is TWGOK.

To me Keima is the perfect example of how a harem lead can be both interesting and still fulfill the role of his character. I fact, it is Keima's odd, some might say unbearable, personality that makes for a lot of the great humor in this anime/manga.

Personally, I would rather have a protagonist like Keima than normal forgettable protagonist X.

Harem Anime, just like any other genre, have their good and bad titles.

[The world God only knows] was able to take an old concept and put a spin to it and it paid off.

But at the same time you do realized that Keima still possesses around half the 'flaws' that the TC have stated right? He would probably still count Keima as uninteresting :p

Honestly, I think this is changing, thanks in large part to eroge adaptations.

Eroge adaptations tend to be very harem-esque, and I find that the male leads in them have actually been pretty good, solid, and often entertaining characters.

Steins;Gate's Okabe kind of has a harem. It's easy to forget that due to the sci-fi and drama parts of the show, but the guy really does have several girls crushing on him in various ways. Okabe was the best anime male character of all of 2011, imo.

The Key/KyoAni main male protagonists all have their definite strengths and they even tend to carry the scenes they're in, imo.

Mashiro-iro Symphony's Shingo was the consummate diplomat with real smoothness and finesse, and Koi to Senkyo to Chocolate's Oojima was an awesome politician with a fair number of GAR moments, imo. Hell, Oojima/Shingo would be an US Presidential ticket that I would feel really good about. :heh:


If you're tired of classic-style harem anime, then just switch on over to eroge adaptations is what I would strongly encourage.

^ While it's a plus that eroge adaptations are making ntheir way in, I've heard mostly negative things about eroge-based anime; the one that tends to come to mind is stuff like Princess Lover (although I don't think there was much of a plot in the original game either...)

I don't believe assertiveness will end the series so quickly. You will not believe what new problems you have after you decided to bang some girls in the harem. You start to feel that "lcrossroads of life" coming up. The fact you have to think about which girl in the harem is going to be your significant other since once you grow up...looks are going to go away and the only they have is their talents and personality.

The best harems usually have interesting MC's. imo, Issei from High School DxD was different from most since he wasn't such a wimp.

Someone mentioned shoujo and I agree. It's the same. So how about the harem members of a harem anime? We always have our usual few character types. Why are most of the characters about the same? Why is it so easy to see which member of the harem will be the most popular character just by reading 2 lines about the character?

Yes, they may be uninteresting and plain and that's the reason why normal girls won't be interested in him. Think of normal girls as the main girl in shoujo manga. They will only be looking at the good looking ones. The cutest girls have too many handsome guys around them and they are already used to it. So they are more or less immune to the good looking and powerful male characters.

Will you prefer a character that constantly think whether the female characters are in love with him over the dense ones? i doubt so. Cause it will be irritating to see the main guy thinking way ahead of himself.

I didn't watch much harem anime but for the ones I watched, I feel that most of them deserve their harem.
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Maybe slightly off topic: What really defines a harem? When more than 3 characters are in love with the main character? Does it include 'sister' who is a supporting character whom does not have much screen time?
Than why aren't manga like 'Namida Usagi'(I cannot think of any other example right now. But there's quite a few I have been reading the same as this series.) considered as '(Reverse)Harem'? At one point of the story, there are 3 characters in love with the main character.
I dislike how everyone automatically call a series with and 3girls and 2 guys a harem but not a series with 2girls and 3 guys a reverse harem.

Does the MC of Hagure Yuusha no Esthetica count?

Huh? I hated Tenchi even back in the 90s, and felt like another rather passive and boring hero.

I'd pick Dark Schneider and Captain Ohgami over Tenchi any day.

As for video games, the infamous bastard known for "GAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!". :rolleyes:

Dark Schneider is fucking awesome. The kind of guy I'd love to see dropping in universes like Nanoha's and Touhou's, just saying.

In the video game field, Takeru Shirogane, for the character development, just enough said.

Lame male protagonists have prevented me from enjoying many decent shows. On the other hand, I liked Keitaro from Love Hina even though he falls into most harem protagonist stereotypes. So I think a harem protagonist can be a good character even if he's dense, weak, useless etc as long as it's done right.

Well, there are male leads that are lecherous, (DXD, Trinity Seven), etc, then they are strong (Tsukihime, Fate/Night, Negima)

The biggest problem with Harem manga is the slippery slope it might end up being a HENTAI Manga instead. For example, I was bored one day and saw a hentai anime, the MC was betrayed years ago by a elf girl (Now Queen), as revenge, he seduced her first borne daughter, her younger loli daughter, the Queen of the Guards, and herself, then proceed to kill the king and seize the throne while taking the entire group as his harem.

How was that with a MC...but then, it wouldn't sell very well :heh: Something like that, is still out of the mainstream. :heh:

It's because if the male leads is more interesting then the harem will be unfocused. for example would you think code geass as harem anime? Maybe many of us (including myself) say no, but there still a possibility for it as there is Kaguya (which is suggest the harem), C2, Karen, or even Nunnally.

I always wonder why can't harem anime have a super-cool bad-ass bishounen like Archer (Fate/Stay Night) or Hei (Darker than black)

Well softcore won't hurt pending on the series, a seinen harem manga should have a couple of softcore (no nipple or genitala but very obvious notes they are going at it.

I mean romantic comedies over here occasionally toss in actual sex as humour.

Then it become hentai. Once it is clear the guy is getting some (and not immediate receive a kick in the crouch, frighten in fear, or a fireball from another rival girl, hammered by little sister), then it goes to X-rate one way or another.

And once it go past that line, it gets labeled as such and suddenly the readership become difficult. There are a few that can still apply (I.E Future Diary or Ulblatt) but then it is already covered with blood and death that sex would be the least objective material. :heh:

Personally, I find sex in any anime to be a distraction from the plot anyway. If all the author can think up are sex scenes, then make it hentai and be done with it. I personally think Fate/Night would had been better without the mandatory sex :rolleyes:

If you like Dark Schneider, you should check out Rance series.
They're practically the same being. :heh:

As for anime heroes..... let's not forget the awesome, swagtastic Haran Banjo from Daitarn 3.

http://imageshack.us/a/img266/7015/i...4275206031.jpg


Rich. Swauve. Badass. Pilots a gigantic mech and whoops alien asses.
Lady's man with two girlfriends. SAVES THE GODDAMN WORLD.

Yeah, that's right, robot heroes used to be COOL. :cool:

Honestly, Harem protagonists always seem evil to me. They are either too bland or too MAGNIFICIENT, and consequently I always feel like their "targets" are being somehow brainwashed/mindbroken from being the cool and interesting characters they started as, and becoming somehow subservient to the whims of a relatively uninteresting protagonist.

That's not to say that a polygamist, polyamorous or polyandrous relationship can not be dramatically interesting, its just not the standard.

That being said, I admit to liking Ouran High School Host Club (and I'm softer on shoujo harems in general, mostly because the featured lead girl is generally just a hot girl wearing glasses (or whatever the trope is called), and it is somehow more fun seeing men act like fools over a romantic interest).

Think James Bond...well may it is not a harem, but sex is another element in harem dynamic. It becomes something like eating, sleeping and drinking with friends.

Sex is only a "distraction" if it wasn't properly built up to. If there's a solid contextual basis it is just a natural flow of the story line. It should also practically assess the consequences.

And yeah, far too few anime do that properly but there are some gems where even if the sex isn't explicit it had a solid foundation leading up to it.

Oh man. It's your opinion, but for the sake of Tenchi lovers out there, I'd just like to offer my own opinion that Tenchi Universe (the best Tenchi Series, IMO) is way better than 95% of harem comedies I've seen.

In my opinion, Tenchi is much more willful than most harem protagonists but the real strength of this show is the supporting cast. All of the females are such over-the-top zany (though certainly not very realistic) characters that I can't help but find them entertaining, and Tenchi's grandpa is a true badass, in every sense of the word.

Frankly, I personally find it way to annoying.

I am sure that there are many people who read eroge (like in your examples Tsukihime and FSN) primarily for the story and the characters and not for the ero content.

Unfortunately those kind of main characters are not that common in eroge. Unless you are reading action oriented eroge or nukiges, you are most likely stuck with donkan protagonists.

As for Steins;Gate's harem elements, it was mocked by it's own fandisc Hiyoku Renri no Darling :heh:

I don't actually agree with that. "Normal" defined as what, exactly?

If it's looks, no.
Shoujo heroines (even with harems of guys) are treated a lot better than shounen heroes who have harems.

I can name a TON of loser/meh guys from harems but only one or two loser/meh girls from shoujo reverse-harems. On the other hand, I can name a ton of harem shows and only a handful of reverse-harem shows, so that might be why.:heh:

But because the shoujo heroine is supposed to be something of an idol for little Japanese girls, she is normally at least pretty as opposed to the "incredibly plain" design male leads get. She is normally well-liked at least by her target audience, whereas the target audience for the male lead normally hates him or is jealous of him....or just doesn't care about him.

If it's personality...that is also a no. Male leads of harems can have really BAD personalities...like being perverted or really indecisive or unloyal or just complete doormats. Shoujo leads of r-h, are normally good girls...and don't normally have bad/unlikable personalities unless you count Miaka from Fushigi Yuugi who is mind-numbingly stupid but is by no means, a girl with loose morals.