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Shiyumi 2013-06-23 22:47


Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold (Post 4734057)

But I wasn't talking about the TYPES of upgrade. I was talking about the distribution.

It might be possible for one avatar to offer nothing but new Enhanced Armaments upon level-up, and for another avatar to offer nothing but the improvement of existing abilities. Or at least to offer more of one than the other.

I also mean the distribution, 3 choices each level. With Special Skill having 3 types short-long-wide, I think it ideal to have 4 options each level up. BB first and foremost is a fair fighting game, they not going to give some players with only choice while others with multi-choice. Also Taku said he spent all his bonus on special skill.

Sunder the Gold 2013-06-24 11:01

Where did he say that?

And what's his fourth skill? Excluding the basic extending jab, he has three special attacks, and he should have started with one of them.

If he did say that, perhaps he meant that one of his choices was spent improving one of his special attacks?

Shiyumi 2013-06-24 12:01

Chapter 1 of Blu-Ray Side Story 1. He stared with an other unknown skill. In vol 1, he doesn't used it because he had 3 others better skill and SP gauge isn't free either. Or like Ash's case have didn't have Special Skill to begin with since he got his beginning armament. I think it more likely the latter.

GDB 2013-06-24 12:07

In other words, he stupidly spent his level up bonuses on too many abilities with no way to properly use them all, and without making himself stronger. So he has a large toolbox, but it's full of nearly rusted tools. :p

Sunder the Gold 2013-06-24 13:49


Originally Posted by Shiyumi (Post 4735421)
Chapter 1 of Blu-Ray Side Story 1.

What is that? A manga or light novel chapter released with a DVD box set?


He stared with an other unknown skill. In vol 1, he doesn't used it because he had 3 others better skill and SP gauge isn't free either.
Is this a fact? Because you state it like a fact, but then you say "or" and cast it into doubt. If it's not a fact, you should start with "maybe" or something.

If it is a fact, then we're looking at a special attack like Headbutt: Something that requires the entire Special Gauge to use, but which is either extremely awkward or not particularly powerful, or perhaps both.

However, am I supposed to believe that he has a special ability SO BAD that he's never used it in nine Volumes, one side-story and at least one video game?


Or like Ash's case have didn't have Special Skill to begin with since he got his beginning armament. I think it more likely the latter.
That makes no sense. Why would Ash Roller not start with a special attack?

Looking at the Level 1 Ash Roller and Silver Crow, would anyone assume the two were equal? Roller is an even worse fist-fighter than Crow without his bike. The Night Rocker doesn't offer nearly as much mobility or travel speed as Aviation. The bike might shield Roller from attacks in certain directions, but Crow wins hit-and-run battles because flying is just that much better than a motorcycle.

Likewise, there's no way that a Level 1 Cyan Pile without a special attack could be considered Level 1 Silver Crow's equal. If restricted to just the Pile-Driver, Cyan Pile has no way to win a fight with Crow that isn't contained within narrow corridors and low ceilings. Most battles take place under an open sky, or with plenty of opportunity to escape cramped confines.

Krono 2013-06-24 15:33


Originally Posted by Sunder the Gold (Post 4735499)
What is that? A manga or light novel chapter released with a DVD box set?

Short story that came with one of the blu-ray releases.

Tusjecht 2013-06-24 17:01

The Chinese translator also snarked that story is likely non-canon, with Takumu having so many skills.

Sunder the Gold 2013-07-11 22:40

That doesn't make any sense.

Discussions about how Takumu should re-spec Cyan Pile are hard to have so long as we're not sure what his original special attack was. It's either Spiral Gravity Driver, or something never before revealed, or else the author miscounted and hopes that no one notices that Taku got shorted.

I doubt that Cyan Pile started without any special attack. Even Silver Crow got a special attack, though arguably the only SP-fueled ability he needed was Aviation.

Likewise, it's hard to decide which of the four known attacks need to go without knowing what alternatives are possible. Still, let's look at the basics of basics in regards to Cyan Pile.

"Cyan" is a mistake. Pile is actually sort of an indigo color; mostly Blue, with some Purple. This is reflected in the avatar's center focus: the Pile-Driver.

The Pile-Driver is servicible in face-to-face combat, but very clumsy. Cyan Pile can punch someone with it or swing it like a club, but the weapon's size and weight require him to use big, slow movements that telegraph his attack. Worse, not only can the enemy easily see the attack coming, they can take advantage of the window of vulnerability Pile creates each time he has to recover from such a heavy attack.

The Pile-Driver is a mediocre mid-range weapon. It strikes a very small area, making it easy to miss the mark against agile, moving targets, and its cool-down time is too long between shots.

It perfectly reflects his color: He can bully Redder enemies with his strength and armor if he can just manage to get close, but he'll get taken apart by Bluer enemies in close-range. But Bluer enemies can be defeated if he can significantly injure them as they cross from midrange into short-range, before they get too close for comfort.

The Cyan Blade technique presents a problem, as it replaces the Pile-Driver and changes Takumu's entire fighting style. So far, no other Incarnate Skill has done that; they've all merely enhanced a player's existing style.

If Takumu can figure out how to make the sword's blade extend in length according to the exact mechanics of the Pile-Driver (ie: range, speed, power), then everything is fine. He loses nothing, his weapon becomes MUCH better suited to face-to-face combat, on top of allowing him to engage in Incarnate-fights. It also means that any upgrades to the Pile-Driver can apply directly to the Cyan Blade as well.

If the author never bothers to think of that, or use it, then it's just more "Being Taku is suffering", and he'll continue being the Krillin.

Lightning Cyan Spike is cheap to use, and scary if it hits, but it's actually not that great as a long-ranged attack. Plus, it sort of misses the point.

Remember, Pile is mostly Blue. His specialty is with attacks of much shorter range. Any enemy THAT far away is probably a Red avatar, and Pile should be trying to close the distance against Reds, not trying to out-shoot them.

Spiral Gravity Driver tries to cover for one of Cyan Pile's weaknesses by giving him a way to control range. Unfortunately, he didn't use it that way in the ONE fight where it actually appears. I doubt the author has used it again even 10 volumes later.

It could be a pretty cool move, allowing him to shove Bluer enemies away to a range where they can't attack, and give him a chance to use his Pile-shot when they run back in. He could also use it to knock someone flying off a cliff, or into the path of a giant Enemy.

However, Pile is supposed to be about Direct Damage, and moving opponents around is an Indirect Attack. And again, if he never USES it, it's not doing him any good anyway.

Plus, without Lightning Cyan Spike, Pile has no way to really make use of the greatest distance that Spiral Gravity Driver can create. If you need one level up choice just to make another level up choice work properly, I think you're choosing wrong.

Splash Stinger tries to fix the weakness of totally relying on the Pile-Driver, making Cyan Pile more versatile. But Cyan Pile is SUPPOSED to rely completely on the Pile-Driver, which would become more reliable if he focused upgrades on it.

Possible Ideas For Upgrading the Pile-Driver:

* Shorter Cool-Down Time: Allows Pile to fire his pile more often.

* Longer Range: Allows Pile to achieve the more reasonable kinds of reach he used against Dusk Taker rather than the ridicuous range he used against Silver Crow. Doesn't use any SP at all, and applies to ALL shots rather than just one special attack.

* Greater Force: The stake shoots out faster, making it harder to avoid and inflicting more damage from the greater force with which it hits.

* Rapid Fire Special Attack: Fire several pile-shots in rapid succession. This not only increases the chances of inflicting more damage through multiple strikes, but also increases the chances of actually hitting an enemy.

All of these upgrades together would make Cyan Pile an ABSOLUTE BEAST at his particular slightly-midrange combat zone, while also greatly improving his close-range combat ability.

He doesn't need to practice using four or five wildly different special attacks, but can instead focus on getting better with his Pile-Driver. Since it's the weapon he already spends so much time fighting with, his experience will already be put to use with the new and improved version.

He'll be shocked at how much EASIER combat becomes, with a much more reliable and powerful Pile-Driver.

Better yet, ALL of these upgrades could theoretically apply to the Cyan Blade, as long as the sword retains the "Pile Shot" extention attack.

Tusjecht 2013-07-15 08:27

The only time we've ever seen Level Up bonus choices are from Silver Crow's perspective.

I thought of posting it in his thread too, but in one post I think I'll just state my opinion: for Level Up bonus choices, upgrading the Armament/specialised body part of the avatar yields all of the above upgrades as you listed above.

With only four choices, and nothing mentioned of sub-choices, it is highly possible that to simplify matters, enhancement of an ability applies to a wide range of specs and not any one particular aspect.

Brain Burst might be an MMO, but with the high level of customisation, I doubt that each system choices for each player is so highly personalised.

Sunder the Gold 2013-07-15 09:20

The three passive upgrades might be a single package, but I doubt that package would include the Special Attack.

As to upgrades coming in packages, KYH describes the effects of her Terminate Sword twice, and from that it is clear that Terminate Sword is a seperate effect from the power that lets her cut through anything.

Crow's first flight upgrade increased the thrust he could achieve with Aviation, thereby increasing his speed and towing power. But it's also possible that such greater output required greater Special Gauge consumption, and it took his second or third upgrade to improve his flight time by making Aviation cheaper.

Sunder the Gold 2013-08-10 19:10

Fuuko learned how to recharge Sky Raker's Gale Thruster through mind-power, letting her overcome it's 10-minute cooldown so that she could use it at least once or twice more.

Do you suppose that Takumu learned how to do the same for the Pile Driver before he figured out the Cyan Blade? Or if not, that it should be the next thing he tries to master?

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