[Manga] Naruto Chapter 523 Discussion
 

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It's been awhile, but spoilers are out...

I bet this time Zabusa is going to rescue Haku - something he didn't do in the previous fight - because he hid his feelings.

More info since we have a script:

Names of the Swordsmen and their swords. Their names have a fruit theme.

Ringo Ameyuri (Little Guy) - The Thunder Sword Kiba. The sharpest sword.
Kuriarare Kushimaru (Tall Mask Guy) - The Long Sword Nuibari. It pierces through anything and sews it shut.
Hoozuki Mangetsu (Suigetsu's bro) - No sword. But master of all swords.
Munashi Jinpachi (Eyepatch Guy) - The Explosive Sword Shibuki. Charged with explosives.
Suikazan Fubuki (Fat Guy) - Former owner of Samehada
Akebino Jinin (Deidara Hair Guy) - The Dull Sword Kabutowari. Can break through any guard.

Shikaku and Inoichi don't appear. Instead it is a backup squad from the Nara clan. Kakashi uses them and a Yamanaka to get through the mist and strike the hidden Zabuza. Kakashi's plan is to have the Nara shadow bind Zabuza and the Swordsmen since they can't kill or talk-no-jutsu them. But as you can see by the ending, it doesn't work out that well thanks to Haku. Haku takes the raikiri blow for Zabuza and grabs Kakashi's arms. Then Zabuza goes for the kill. There is still a chance the Nara were able to get the shadow bind on Zabuza,

Choujuro is the only Swordmen left in the current generation. Zabuza's sword can repair itself through the iron in blood. More killing = repaired sword. Mangetsu is the second coming of Zabuza and a prodigy. Not Suigetsu as previously thought.

Trying to imagine how this would actually be useful...guess it'll just have to be a surprise if we get to see the sword in action.

The spoiler just reinforces the thought that Suigetsu will be matched against Choujiro. It's pretty much a given if he really is the last living Mist swordsmen. Suigetsu will want Hiramekarei.

It seems like Suigetsu was collecting the swords so he can reform the 7 Swordsmen and be their leader. Cause obviously he is not strong enough to do this by his own hand. So he would gather the swords and then form his little group.

It also appears he doesn't consider Chojuro to be a worthy Mist Swordsmen since he is a weak kid and not very brutal. Suigetsu's idea of the Swordsmen is from the old bloody Mist and different than what the Mizukage wants. So his group would be outlaws from Kiri. So Suigetsu will have to kill Chojuro to get his sword and remove him from the Swordsmen. In that case, Sui would lose and die since Chojuro is a good guy.

One thing we now know. There won't be a Old 7 Swordsmen vs. New 7 Swordsmen fight. There is only one left. Kakashi's group are on their own.

From what we've seen, Choujuro only lacks confidence to stick up for himself most of the time. He's obviously pretty strong martially (sent Sasuke flying through a solid wall). But I agree Suigetsu would be put-off by his personality.

I'm not sure how far this subplot of Suigetsu gathering all the swords and reforming the 7 is actually going to be carried but there's little chance of him actually succeeding at it. So yeah, if there's fight between him and Choujuro, Suigetsu would probably lose and likely die soon after that. But overall, Suigetsu's a much more interesting character. So if he ended up winning I'd enjoy that more.

To be honest, it will probably be forgotten after this fight. It's not exactly a huge priority for Kishi. We are seeing Suigetsu after over a year away from the manga because he is is able to provide background on the Swordsmen and their swords. So he can play a role now. But after they are defeated, Kishi will move on to other zombies and forget about Sui. Like he already did for a long time. I think Suigetsu will be allowed to live, but his goal will be left open ended since he can never achieve it. As minor as Choujuro is, he will not die. Nor will the Mist go back to its old ways.

I don't see how anyone can think Suigetsu will fight Choujuro of all people when its confirmed his own brother is on the battlefield and that he summoned a sword.

Suigetsu is not going to go rogue with his mini organization, he is going to fight alongside the alliance in this battle.

This is going to be a long battle is Kishi adds a sword every chapter. (Zabuza's last chapter, Mangetsu's this chapter)
At least, it means Naruto's training is going to end soon since Bee currently hold a sword and will have to get involved. Guess Kishi couldn't kill Haku again without showing him the improved Naruto.

Well, whatever. He's going to confront a Mist swordsman for a sword let's say that. Given Suigetsu doesn't know the whereabouts of any of the swords yet, it's going to be all about what he learns, what he decides to do and who he encounters (or who encounters him)

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-Too bad for him, Samehada's heart belongs to Killer Bee. Unless Suigetsu can satisfy her...chakra appetite (hah, had ya going there) then I'm afraid he's S.O.L.

-That aside, this is sounding like a big blast of nostalgia. Here's hoping it turns out good.

EDIT

-Chapter's out. It was alright I guess considering it is nothing more than an exhibition of what the Swordsmen and their swords can do. One is an explosive sword, another crushes all defences, another cuts like lightning. Conveniently, Zabuza's sword repairs itself by absorbing blood from enemies so after moving down a few fodder, it nearly repairs itself. Also, Haku takes a Raikiri again, only this time there is almost no drama in it. Too bad.

Kakashi is probably going to teleport Zabuza's sword and the plan is still accomplished since he has no sword and his back is still turned.

Suigetsu might get his dreams come true fast, isn't it a tad bit convenient that half of the swords are already in one place for him to take?
While it's true that he only followed Sasuke in order to get the swords, we know nothing about him really...anywho, decent chapter, Kakashi seems to be a pretty good strategist too, although I wouldn't count on shadow techniques to bind from afar; hadn't Shikamaru said that they become stronger when you're closer to your opponent?

Once Naruto will finish his training he'll probably won't even need any tools.
He can probably make a kunai, shuriken and even a sword with just his own (mastered) chakra.

Hopefully he learns also to deflect ninjutsu and even physical things like needles like he did against Haku or.. Sasuke's Katon at the VotE.
Still... Naruto bringing down the seven mist swordsmen... i wonder if that is similiar like bringing down the 7 Pain. Or if Pain is superior to the Mists 7.

I still think that Zabusa's sword is still the weakest

So yeah, this guy.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ir918/what.jpg

Is Kishi hiring five-year-olds to work on his manga now?

Lol decent chapter. The only bad things I have to say are how the art went a bit sloppy on one page and how he felt the need to kill the dark mood by using chibi's to explain Kakashi's strategy.

And that stitching sword was little bit unnerving...

I was thinking how it might have made Sakura more useful if she were given Maki the Sand kunoichi's job in wrapping Zabuza. But maybe there is some kind of Suna skill to wrapping someone in cloth. I do like he is showing there are some decent name ninja in the Alliance ranks. Even if 99% of them are there to get chopped up like in this chapter. Expect more Konoha clans and occasional fodder to shine.

I guess he needs to pay his assistants more. I'll admit Naruto's art has been hit or miss for a while now. I'm actually not a big fan of the Swordsmen designs. They lack something. The only decent one is the scary tall guy.

omg how retarded does kishi think we are. "An unforgivable evil intent , zabuza ignores haku and moves to cut down kakashi". WTF. Didnt he just show a page with 7 people getting blown to kingdom come, and regenerate. Who gives a shit if he ignores haku and cuts him, he can fucking regerenate it all back. If i was in zabuza's position and haku was my MOTHER id still have no problem. Geez, am i the only one ticked off at this....retardedness?

edit: sorry to bring you into this mom :)

^ Huh, I didn't even notice. That does seem especially stupid since we all know Zabuza isn't even in control anymore. Bad translation maybe? Or maybe the first sentence was actually refferring to Kabuto.

The point will be shown next chapter.... it'll probably be a conflict of their own minds...against the control of Kabuto. Bla bla bla the mind is strong...Daniel-san wax on.. wax off...

I don't know... maybe it's an ANBU thing but... i like Kashimaru... besides... he awfully reminds me of Hashimaru (real movie: Shinobi).. with his abilities... and with an appearance like Orochimaru.

I know whats gonnahappen the next episode hehe. its pretty clear..

That's guys design isn't good, but it's made much worse by the fact that his outline crooked, uneven and gapped in places. Which are signs of a bad/rushed cleaning job.

A bad cleaning job by scanslators can make the manga look particularly crappy. I remember a couple of scanned releases in early pt II that made certain scenes look horrible, but the art looked fine in the original version.

The point of that wasn't so much Zabuza's actions as it was Haku's. Haku's still instinctually protecting Zabuza even though his emotions were supposed to have been killed. Kabuto pointed this out, even though he doesn't seem too concerned by it...yet.

its still pretty retarded, tryna make it sound all epic and emotional when it wont even tickle him, but i get what you mean.

im confused. is zabuza part of the original 7 swordmans? Cause only 6 were mentioned/summoned after zabuza...

^ Zabuza was part of the last generation along with Ameyuri, Kushimaru, Mangetsu, Jinpachi, Fubuki, and Jinin. Kisame killed Fubuki and replaced him. There is no current generation outside of Chojuro.

We have to remember, as powerful as these ninja are, they were still defeated by someone and killed. Kakashi and Gai, and groups like the Hyuuga and Ino-Shika-Cho were probably as feared in other villages as the Mist Swordsmen were. It's their immortality that makes them really dangerous. Otherwise the Alliance would rape the hell out of them due to sheer numbers. Hell, Kakashi with just a Nara and Yamanaka was able to make a simple plan and nearly trapped Zabuza and at least would have "killed" Haku.

It seems some are saying that Kakashi screwed up by setting up raikiri before the mind transfer. It makes a loud noise and gave him away. While he was fast enough to get the jump on Zabuza, Kabuto was able to react to Kakashi.

If other Nara can do shadow sewing, then I expect Kishimoto to give a new epic shadow jutsu to Shikamaru.

You don't get it at all... so what if you can regenerate? Will you be pleased if someone will keep killing you? Like you are having a nice stroll around the city and then suddenly your head falls off? That's cruel, it is the same bullying only more brutal.

I duno if this zombies can feel pain though... but if they can? Not the best experience that's for sure...

To get it better just watch Baccano, it has the whole immortal issue covered really well.

That was a pretty good chapter. Atleast we all know the reason Suigetsu was brought back. Mangetsu vs. Suigetsu must happen.

Nice to see that Kishi is killing a good amount noname ninja in this war. And the Zetsus didnt even begin to fight. And after all that we can assume this whole war is just a diversion so that Madara with his new rinnegan can go behind the front lines and capture the 2 demons there. This story line is looking good, adding Kabuto's zombies to the evil army of Madara was a good idea, looking at 100,000 Zetsus would become quite boring after a few chapters, but these zombies are all different, they represent the best of the old ninja world which was all about wars and fighting.

don tlike the whole immortality stuff. i predict naruto will jump in. blast them all so hard they wont regenerate anymore.. end of story. sigh..

hmmm...just thought this chapter could have been written without having suigetsu relaying stuff about the seven swordsmen and their swords' abilities. i kind of wanted to find out about them as they fought. we don't really need suigetsu to explain things. the swordsmen could do it themselves. instead of getting excited about them, i felt that it spoiled things for me a bit. but that's just me.

I'd rather have it this way actually, since I don't believe Talking Is A Free Action. Especially during war.

And they also don't look to be very talkative today.

i loved this chapter. zabuzas sword has a very awesome ability! and the end counldnt have been better with kakashi being caught the same way again!

but i have to wonder: what coinsident is it that kabuto digged up zabuza and haku?!

Not that much really. We know that Orochimaru has had a vested interest in collecting DNA and experimenting with it, so news of one of the famous Seven Swordsmen dying would be reasonably big enough for Orochimaru to hear (perhaps through his subordinates). In that case i wouldn't find it surprsing if he spent a considerable amount of time ording his followers to collect the DNA of Zabuza and other famous shinobi when they die, so he can use them later in experiments or in case he perfected Impure Ressurection.

It does n't neccessarly have to be Kabuto that collected all of them. He might have collected some of them (which would explain what he was doing the entire time) and Orochimaru might have collected most of them, with it all being Orochimaru's idea in the first place.

So how does Kakashi get saved next week? I mean it's not like he is in any real danger since he can't die.

A) Zabuza stops mid way because of Haku. Even though he wouldn't kill him anyway. Kabuto loses it.
B) Kakashi dodges the attack.
C) The Nara shadow sewing stops Zabuza.
D) Kakashi warps Zabuza. This is the least likely since Kakashi needs time to prepare kamui.
E) Kakashi gets backup. Sai and Omoi said they were backing him up.
F) He doesn't and gets cut.

^Here's hoping Zabuza kills Kakashi next chapter, then the 7 and the Others will kill all the Alliance forces and move on to fight some opponents more interesting (or at least more powerful)...

Or Gai will save Kakashi...which ever comes first...

Well we all know its not gonna be F because he is plot protected. Most likely E. I predict by either Sai or Guy. If not that then he'll just dodge.

You would hope Gai is standing besides that Nara guy. Cause Kabuto is probably going to send a couple zombies his way. I am beginning to think Gaara's and not Kakashi's division is the strongest on the field. At least for plot purposes. Maybe because of Lee and Sakura not doing anything, but Kakashi's division doesn't seem as interesting now that they are actually fighting.

If Zabuza and Mangetsu are the strongest swordsmen, then they aren't that great to begin with. Kakashi's division will rally and find a way to win. We still have much stronger opponents like Akatsuki, Hanzou, Jinchuuriki, Kages, and whatever Kabuto pulls out of his butt behind them. Even the Konoha group are probably individually stronger than each swordsmen. So the 7 swordsmen are more of a Quirky Mini boss Squad. I wouldn't be shocked if Kishimoto drags out a few more groups like this to pad the manga.

Plot protected from death. But not injury. I could see Kakashi dodging and getting cut. It wouldn't be a true Kakashi fight without him being in peril.

Raiton kawarimi, chops his chakra but is guaranteed to save his ass.
I wouldn't drop them to your average ninja level, Zabuza hones his sword with every strike, meaning it won't go dull, and his skills are good enough to top Kakashi in close combat. Dunno about Mangetsu, I think Suigetsu will handle him for the sake of plot though.

It's not that they aren't great, but Shonen manga usually has a pattern. The level of competition increases each fight during a major conflict. The beginning fights are against lesser opponents and the last fights are against the most powerful. It's like a wrestling card where you have opening matches, a mid card, a semi-main event, and a main event. So we are still in the opening matches of the war. It's like when Choji faced Jirabou during the Sasuke Rescue Arc and then we got Kimimaro vs Gaara and Naruto vs. Sasuke as are main events.

The first fight of the war was against Sasori without his puppets, Shin who did nothing, and a scatterbrained Deidara. Each fight will step up from that until Naruto and Sasuke take the field.

So that said, I don't consider the Swordsmen to be anything special. Kakashi and group should be able to handle them, before their boss fights start.