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-   -   Nanoha - StrikerS - Episode 01 Discussion / Poll (http://forums.animesuki.com/showthread.php?t=45083)

Seiryuu 2007-04-03 06:44

I forgot something I'd been wondering when I first saw this: does Nanoha have any sense of proportion or restraint? In the airport, she used one of her stronger blasts to create a hole to get out of... a hole that was at least 30 feet in diameter. To get out of there she really didn't need such a powerful blast. If you want to break a hole in the ceiling to get out through doesn't mean you have to also make a hole in the moon if it's passing by. It just seemed like overkill, even for someone as trigger-happy as her.
Also, how much time was supposed to have passed between the airport and the test? Nanoha doesn't seem a day older though enough time should have passed to show a great deal of visible change.

Chaos2Frozen 2007-04-03 06:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiryuu
does Nanoha have any sense of proportion or restraint?

We may never know, I don't recall her being sent on a mission of peace nor have I heard of her being assigned to recon.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiryuu
To get out of there she really didn't need such a powerful blast. If you want to break a hole in the ceiling to get out through doesn't mean you have to also make a hole in the moon if it's passing by. It just seemed like overkill, even for someone as trigger-happy as her.

Then lets ask ourselves this question, does it make a difference to her situation if she blasted a 1 metre wide hole or a 30 metre wide hole?

And if any of you were in her shoes, which would you choose to do? :D

She doesn't have to, but like any gamer, the reason is because she can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiryuu
Also, how much time was supposed to have passed between the airport and the test? Nanoha doesn't seem a day older though enough time should have passed to show a great deal of visible change.

15 years old to 19 years old... Not much of a physical difference.

JediNight 2007-04-03 07:09

I poked fun of the situation as well, but really I wouldn't think too deeply about it. It's undoubtedly because it "looks cool" so they tossed it into the 1st episode to woo fans. And she didn't even bother to use Starlight Breaker or Excelion mode ;D

Chaos2Frozen 2007-04-03 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediNight (Post 887436)
I poked fun of the situation as well, but really I wouldn't think too deeply about it. It's undoubtedly because it "looks cool" so they tossed it into the 1st episode to woo fans. And she didn't even bother to use Starlight Breaker or Excelion mode ;D

Obviously she was trying to impress the kid!

You can't just show all your cards just yet! You got to know when to hold! :D

(Btw, this is a joke, I'm just kidding... Sort of...:uhoh: )

Loner 2007-04-03 07:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiryuu (Post 887414)
I forgot something I'd been wondering when I first saw this: does Nanoha have any sense of proportion or restraint? In the airport, she used one of her stronger blasts to create a hole to get out of... a hole that was at least 30 feet in diameter. To get out of there she really didn't need such a powerful blast. If you want to break a hole in the ceiling to get out through doesn't mean you have to also make a hole in the moon if it's passing by. It just seemed like overkill, even for someone as trigger-happy as her.

Actually, the Divine Buster is her most basic attack. The only weaker attack she has is the Divine/Axel Shooter, which isn't the best design for making a large hole.

And with this being Nanoha, who we know trains to be able to keep track of multiple things in combat simultaneously, why only make a hole just to get her and Subaru out? Since the building obviously would have to be condemned when all is said and done, make a hole big enough to dump massive amounts of fire suppressant into! Like, say, using her magic to grab a bunch of water out of the river (I believe I saw one nearby in the episode) and drop it into that hole.

And finally, I think I figured out why she used cartridges for that shot. It wasn't to boost the power of her Divine Buster - it was to minimize the amount of her own magic that was needed. After all, the fire was caused by a Lost Logia which probably didn't just disappear, so she'd need to contain that. AND she needed to help stop the fire before it became the Great Fire of Midchilda. So she probably didn't want to exhaust her own stamina.

Nightengale 2007-04-03 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board (Post 887303)
You know how in certain shounen shows where token support character does nothing but shout [insert character name] ? They didn't want Yuuno to be trapped in such a sucky role.

Hmm...I stand corrected then. *on the drama cd thing*

Regardless, not knowing how to deal with the obligatory side-token support character is a just weak excuse. Look at Pop from Dai no Daibouken for example. He's clearly a lot weaker than the top-tier characters, but despite being the token-support character, he actually shined way more than all the other characters in my opinion. I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt and that they're just bored with Yuuno. I still think he's the character with one of the largest development potential to exploit, but the writers favour girls, I suppose.

But on the romance side of things, I think I've said it before, but it'll probably go nowhere. The key to success in that area of multiple fandoms, regardless of size is clearly to never give in to the fans. Look at Getbackers for example.

Chaos2Frozen 2007-04-03 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightengale
Regardless, not knowing how to deal with the obligatory side-token support character is a just weak excuse. Look at Pop from Dai no Daibouken for example. He's clearly a lot weaker than the top-tier characters, but despite being the token-support character, he actually shined way more than all the other characters in my opinion. I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt and that they're just bored with Yuuno. I still think he's the character with one of the largest development potential to exploit, but the writers favour girls, I suppose.

Agree, but as someone said before, the writers overly favors the main characters...


Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightengale (Post 887456)

But on the romance side of things, I think I've said it before, but it'll probably go nowhere. The key to success in that area of multiple fandoms, regardless of size is clearly to never give in to the fans. Look at Getbackers for example.


Still, isn't it about time they stop yanking our chains?

...Wait, on second thought, if they decide to choose something I down right wouldn't like, I'll rather they continue to yank...

Forever 2007-04-03 08:10

Hmm slightly disappointed with this ep. Maybe Nanoha A's was too good that make this ep look ordinary. The grown up nanoha's just dont give that kind of omph anymore.

But it is good to see Nanoha and gang back up again.

Darco_emp 2007-04-03 08:13

Feret can only entertain us for so long til the joke be comes cold. beside I for one never really noticed Yuuno after season 1 anyways. since there are a greater cast and all the joke can go to the tinyless of Rein its much easier to write off a character that saids himself that he spends alot of time in animal form.

Chaos2Frozen 2007-04-03 08:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darco_emp (Post 887499)
Feret can only entertain us for so long til the joke be comes cold. beside I for one never really noticed Yuuno after season 1 anyways. since there are a greater cast and all the joke can go to the tinyless of Rein its much easier to write off a character that saids himself that he spends alot of time in animal form.

/shrug

He's an Excavator. He digs. Probably needs the animal-form to fit into tight places...

Besides, it seems ferrets attract cute, young, innocent little girls.

They dig it.

Ashlotte 2007-04-03 08:34

Well from the first part of the episode I was happy to see nanoha hasnt changed one bit...Why make a barrier and walk out of the building when you can simply blow a giant hole in the roof amirite? :heh:

Ah but that aside the new characters where OK. Subaru didnt do too much for me but teana was fairly interesting and im very much looking forward to her picking up that second gun along the way. ;)

All and all im just glad nanoha is back.

Lost 2007-04-03 09:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Village Idiot (Post 886868)
Vita using illusion magic to look older.

Woah, I'd kill to see that. :uhoh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skane (Post 887039)
  • It is easy to understand why Subaru idolises Nanoha. As a young impressionable kid, being rescued by a beautiful lady and carried to the starry night sky as she embraces you against her body... damn. It almost seems romantic. :heh:

  • Raising Heart sounded pretty desperate to set up. I guess she hasn't been seeing a lot of action lately. :heh:

    "We need more enemies, my master!"
Cheers.

  • Heh, was that why both blushed when they looked at each other at the end? Fate, move over! :heh:

  • Yep, I felt that too. Can't blame her really; and when you think about the amount of power Nanoha wields through Raising Heart, just stagnating must be really hard to take.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seiryuu
I forgot something I'd been wondering when I first saw this: does Nanoha have any sense of proportion or restraint? In the airport, she used one of her stronger blasts to create a hole to get out of... a hole that was at least 30 feet in diameter. To get out of there she really didn't need such a powerful blast. If you want to break a hole in the ceiling to get out through doesn't mean you have to also make a hole in the moon if it's passing by. It just seemed like overkill, even for someone as trigger-happy as her.
Also, how much time was supposed to have passed between the airport and the test? Nanoha doesn't seem a day older though enough time should have passed to show a great deal of visible change.

I think that Nanoha has no way to control or limit the power of an attack once she actually activates it. One may argue that the roof of the dome was so thick that it warranted or required a blast as powerful as that to blow a hole through. Also, incinerating every last bit of that roof portion would ensure that no falling debris could hurt the both of them.

Others may argue that it was simply fanservice. :)

IIRC, four years past between two events. I was wondering that too: while Subaru changed alot, Nanoha didn't look that much different.

Darco_emp 2007-04-03 10:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 887551)

I think that Nanoha has no way to control or limit the power of an attack once she actually activates it.

Or that attack could be as weak as she can make it...

Kaioshin Sama 2007-04-03 10:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen (Post 887358)
Well, I can understand the crazy otaku part (They are crazy...)

But the writers have to be equally nuts to not have any pairings just because of them. Not ALL of their fans are unsound....

BRRRRRRRRRRRRRREEAAAAAAAAKTHROUGH! God what was that from....Oh right David Hyde Pierce in Titus. You've just hit one of the major problems in modern anime, Studio's fear of creativity and discretion due to the possibility of sweaty otaku backlash. I say screw the Otaku.

What we need these days more than anything is for Yoshiyuki Tomino to come in with a hammer to start breaking some anime figurines and to start arguing with himself over how he doesn't like his creativity being cowed by anyone. Then I'll be there to start the cliche slow clap and get the ball rolling.

Dagger 2007-04-03 10:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lost (Post 887551)
IIRC, four years past between two events. I was wondering that too: while Subaru changed alot, Nanoha didn't look that much different.

Makes sense to me. Subaru was a little girl who became a teenager. Nanoha was a teenager who became an older teenager / young woman. Not that anime characters are closely connected to reality or anything, but women tend finish developing in terms of both height and secondary sexual characteristics much earlier than men (I've looked pretty much the same since seventh grade despite now being in college, for instance, and the Nanoha who rescued Subaru would have been older than that).

physics223 2007-04-03 11:08

I find this show to be quite trite. It's a personal opinion, but I don't really obtain any fun from cheesy stuff (for the most part, that is). I will look further into this series as it progresses, however. Maybe it's just the low-quality raws I've seen . . .

EadTaes 2007-04-03 11:11

Well it was a very good start to StrikerS and realy make syou wanan see th rest. However their was one scene I didn't liek and made me go WTF HEIN?! from the moment i saw it to each and everysingle time after that. Althout that scene can be decrived as "COOL" to me it's annoying.

What scene is that? Simple it's the scene that makes Nanoha look liek she is realy weaker then she is. Lets me explain. You Hava Nanoha that was a AAA mage right form season 1. Throught season 2 she is also weived at AAA. From the A's to StrikerS mange and in StrikerS it self it's likely a few S's have replaced those A's. So now why teh hell in the world would she need to consume 2 catriges to blast a hole thought a roof?????

I thougth ofve many different excuses but none would fit logicaly at all. 1 was that it was to conserve enegy since it might be a long rescue. But I rulled this out since compared to combat a rescue uses very litte power to someone like here. And i kept on going with different otehr possibilaties but they all broke donw on any bases for logic. In the end the only logical conclusion i coudl come up with was that it looked "COOL" for the weivers and if it looks COOL that it goes in.

And otehr things that only slightly bothered me but was OK after analasis was that Subaru's device also used a cartrige system. My first reaction was WTF arent those things dangerous to use so why is a class C mage applying for a class B ground combat promotion have such a device. But the answer for that is very easy if you read the manga. For those that haven't i am gonan put it ina spoiler tag.
Spoiler:

And because ofve that it makes sense in some way. One coudl also speculate about teh legalaty ofve such devices outside ofve TSAB but we have no imformation on that what so ever so speculation is all we have and will lead us nowere. What I wasnt able to determind is was subara using TSAB issue cartriges like Nanoha and Fate or were they ofve the home made varayaty. Teana'S cartrages were clearly different from the ones used in A's but Nanoha and Fate.

The 2nd possible reason for them to have the cartrige system is that after the ACEs so succesfully used them in combat they became standard issue to mages having reacha certain level. It woudl also be safe to asune that those systems have probabbly been greatly improved since then. Wich would also make "NEW CARTRIGES" a very likely occurence.


And I'll end my post on the Raging Heart vs Racing Heart topic. The website and external sources to the anime it self might refer to it as Racing Heart. But from season 1 all the way to Season to when ever Nanoha or and otehr character refers to it they always very clearly say Raging Heart. There for the problem for the difference lies somewere in between the voice acting and the people providing the external to anime imformation. And I'll leave it at that and conclude by saying I'll use the anime name before using the external source name.

KJlost 2007-04-03 11:46

Spoiler:


Besides, cartridge system is a power boost. Assuming that devices out available outside of TSAB agents (which does seem to be the case as we've seen with Yuuno carrying RG and Fate's Bardische), it's not difficult to imaging that cartridge system could also be available as upgrade part of sorts.

Skane 2007-04-03 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by EadTaes (Post 887641)
~ And I'll end my post on the Raging Heart vs Racing Heart topic. The website and external sources to the anime it self might refer to it as Racing Heart. But from season 1 all the way to Season to when ever Nanoha or and otehr character refers to it they always very clearly say Raging Heart. There for the problem for the difference lies somewere in between the voice acting and the people providing the external to anime imformation. And I'll leave it at that and conclude by saying I'll use the anime name before using the external source name.

It's neither of those.

It's "Raising Heart". The producers already officially stated it waaaay back during the A's season.

Cheers.

LoweGear 2007-04-03 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by EadTaes (Post 887641)
What scene is that? Simple it's the scene that makes Nanoha look liek she is realy weaker then she is. Lets me explain. You Hava Nanoha that was a AAA mage right form season 1. Throught season 2 she is also weived at AAA. From the A's to StrikerS mange and in StrikerS it self it's likely a few S's have replaced those A's. So now why teh hell in the world would she need to consume 2 catriges to blast a hole thought a roof?????

I thougth ofve many different excuses but none would fit logicaly at all. 1 was that it was to conserve enegy since it might be a long rescue. But I rulled this out since compared to combat a rescue uses very litte power to someone like here. And i kept on going with different otehr possibilaties but they all broke donw on any bases for logic. In the end the only logical conclusion i coudl come up with was that it looked "COOL" for the weivers and if it looks COOL that it goes in.

You could consider another possibility that Loner provided: That Nanoha was in combat prior to the rescue. In StrikerS Chapter 1, Fate states that combat machines, which can emit AMF, appeared in the scene, presumably the same ones they fought in earlier chapters. So it's likely that Nanoha and the aces were in combat to drive off the drones before they can commence with the rescue effort. And, Nanoha has always used two cartridges to initiate Divine Buster Extension (finally remembered ^^;; ).

Although yeah, Divine Buster is a bit of overkill, but this is Nanoha we're talking about :heh:

Quote:

and otehr things that only slightly bothered me but was OK after analasis was that Subaru's device also used a cartrige system. My first reaction was WTF arent those things dangerous to use so why is a class C mage applying for a class B ground combat promotion have such a device. But the answer for that is very easy if you read the manga. For those that haven't i am gonan put it ina spoiler tag.
Spoiler:

And because ofve that it makes sense in some way. One coudl also speculate about teh legalaty ofve such devices outside ofve TSAB but we have no imformation on that what so ever so speculation is all we have and will lead us nowere. What I wasnt able to determind is was subara using TSAB issue cartriges like Nanoha and Fate or were they ofve the home made varayaty. Teana'S cartrages were clearly different from the ones used in A's but Nanoha and Fate.

The 2nd possible reason for them to have the cartrige system is that after the ACEs so succesfully used them in combat they became standard issue to mages having reacha certain level. It woudl also be safe to asune that those systems have probabbly been greatly improved since then. Wich would also make "NEW CARTRIGES" a very likely occurence.
Correction, as already ninja'd by KJLost:

Spoiler:


Considering the size of Subaru's ammo drum on her device, it seems that she has her own custom ammo for Revolver Knuckle, as she'd need to use smaller ammunition. On the other hand, Subaru's Grappling Shooter is large enough to be the at least similar to Nanoha and Fate's cartridges.

What actually bothers me more is who Subaru's mother is. For her mother to have her own custom device with cartridge system must make her extremely special, since it leads me to believe that she was one of the first Enforcers to use a cartridge system. We know that the TSAB had cartridge systems parts available for quite some time, but rarely used them on anything. Although WHEN Subaru's mother began using Revolver Knuckle has me stumped: For all we know, she could've been using it even before Nanoha and Fate O_o

I can imagine that it was not the success of Nanoha and Fate with the CS that prompted the TSAB to allow cartridge systems; it would be that they now have first-hand sources of experienced cartridge users at hand, aka the Wolkenritter, allowing them to significantly improve safety measures on the systems.


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