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00Coyote 2011-12-26 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dahak86 (Post 3918697)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 00Coyote (Post 3918378)
Showing absurd, over the top bento battles was the hook that made this show work, but they didn't show the absurd over the top final battle for the final episode. *Shakes fist*

I believe the main hook of the series lies in its lovable and likable characters, fanservice, and the quasi-harem setting.
certainly not in the bento-fights. which, aside from a few good girls-vs-girls ones, were just plain boring and ridiculous.

Different hooks for different people, but likable characters, fanservice, and the quasi-harem setting are, in my opinion, a dime a dozen in anime. You can't swing a half naked cat-girl around by the tail without smacking at least 3 or 4 shows that (or are attempting to) have those qualities.

While I do love the characters in this show (I'll take a wild hair Shaga and a double helping of Kyou, thank you very much) and Pervert/Freak/Barky is a thankfully non-whiny, "respectable" Main Character, what attracted me to this show was the absurd hook of people having life and death battles in grocery stores over 1/2 priced bento, and it is SERIOUS BUSINESS.

The directing, pacing, choreography of the fights and music, especially in the first half of the series, were executed with a finesse that I found really enjoyable. The characters were odd, the buildup of the tension was masterful, and the release into the wild chaos of the fights was very satisfying. As absurd as the story was, and as questionable as the motivation of these crazy characters was, it all added up to a highly entertaining experience.

Where Ben-to faltered, where it failed to keep up its entertainment value, was when it stayed too far from its core idea. Or put another way, during the last half, they took too long to set up the joke, and they lost momentum to really deliver the punch line. The twins at the hospital was an example of this. The Monarch story was also an example of this, but that was more for executing a deadpan satire, a straight faced parody of a plot and setting that you'll find in 100's of stories all over the place.

Words, words, words, like anyone will read any of this, I'm typing to myself at this point, so I'll wrap it up. Ben-to was my favorite show of this season, none of the other shows had me eagerly awaiting the next episode like this one did. It was enjoyable and entertaining. But the last episode lacked ~10 seconds of what I consider its core hook, and I came away feeling unfulfilled. It was a story that was good, but it was so close to being great.

Tenchi Ryu 2011-12-26 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scarletknive (Post 3918920)
Spoiler for 12:

Definitely. They've shown hints before that not being interacted with in the way they want makes them freak out and depressed. Older Kyo developed some kind of rival attraction to Satou, and a couple times she's expressed fear/depression about possibly not being able to talk to and fight with Satou, kinda like being rejected. And basically, what Heracles was doing was saying they weren't welcomed into the wolf culture and had everyone pretty much ignore them, again being rejected.

It seems the twins have a problem with being rejected/ignored, especially when its something they are interested in.

Sheba 2011-12-26 04:47

Satou made a parallel with fighting games way back. The harder the opposing player was, the more satisfying the victory was when you grabbed victory within one inch from defeat. How would you feel if the opponent did not play and let you win as a result? That's how the twins might have felt way back.

Lukeman1884 2011-12-26 05:59

I'm gonna assume there was a lack of money or something, because there's no way an anime like this would have such a lame final fight otherwise. And I expected this Heracles' club dude to actually be a decent opponent, not someone who gets their ass handed to them within 20 seconds of the fight starting, especially not in the final episode. I'd give the anime up to the end of the pool episode 7.5/10, everything past that 4/10

DXMichael 2011-12-26 08:07

Heh, yesterday had me occupied so I was unable to watch the final of Ben-To until today :p

I find Heracles quite a fascinating character. Judging by this last episode, he is on par, if not that, then a little under Satou's fighting skills but that is his weak point. His strong point is being mentally manipulative. He had persuaded everyone in the store to go along with his plan, and he had done it once before in the past with the reasons being that he believed he was doing something right by ignoring the twins because they were the strongest of them which didn't make Bento fights fun. Mental can be just as strong as physical, as we have seen with the twins. They hadn't been beaten or lost, but rather ignored and made into outcasts from the fights they wanted to participate in. Heracles, mentally, was an impressive foe to be dealt with.

The Twins, as a final boss, would be physically strong. Heracles, as a final boss, is mentally strong. However, it didn't go accordingly in the end as everything dragged on for too long and eventually everyone's hunger made them realise that what they were doing is wrong.

A nice series, I would very much welcome another anime, there's so much more they can do.

FlavorOfLife 2011-12-26 08:46

The final fight was not as well done as the first fight where they had slowed motion scenes so you could see how they were hitting. Thats really sad because it would be nice to see how they neutralised the basket fighting style. That said, the first thought i had of the plan of "heracles' rod" was to shake his rod at the twins, then i realised that they would all be in jail after that.

I like how the final episode brings out the difference in thinking. Heracles' knows that that twins true desire is to fight, not to eat since from their external appearences, they are obviously rich enough to not have to fight for half price stuff. This creates a sense of a class injustice of the "haves" taking what the "have nots" have. So he simply denies them what they really want.

Sato is aware of the same but the main difference looks to be that he doesn't feel its fair unless he beats them according to the informal rules (of bento fighting) and since the twins are playing by the same informal rules, the twins being in the contest itself is fair.

And it was fun to see Sato borrowing Monarch's strategy but using it correctly

-Sho- 2011-12-26 08:50

Yup unexpected Twin's story but disappointing ending. Imo the show went down after Monarch , the firsts episodes are still the best.

Midonin 2011-12-26 09:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00Coyote (Post 3918949)
Different hooks for different people, but likable characters, fanservice, and the quasi-harem setting are, in my opinion, a dime a dozen in anime.

And Pervert/Freak/Barky is a thankfully non-whiny, "respectable" Main Character

Something that is also a dime a dozen. When it's said about nearly every main character in nearly every series these days, is it really that rare?

Malkuth 2011-12-26 09:52

So Heracles' ComboClub was Gandi :bow: I couldn't expect anything less from Ben-tou :D

The Orthros backstory was as bizarre as I expected... having a bunch of muscular and experienced street fighters wound two middle-school girls' pride by cowering in fear of getting their asses beaten, on par with becoming stronger when you are exhausted or starving for a couple of days :eyespin:

@TheEroKing (I think): It is unfair to use in-between animation for stills, it's purpose is to make key frames' transition fluid, and will always looks like shit in isolation, in addition to being impossible to finance key- quality in-between-

Now that said, I will agree that at times all sense of body proportion got the Caster@F/Z victim treatment :p

Sumeragi 2011-12-26 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malkuth (Post 3919398)
So Heracles' Comb0 was Gandi :bow: I couldn't expect anything less from Ben-tou :D

It's the Club of Heracles!!!!!!!!!!


Damn the incompetent subbers!!!!!!!!!!

Malkuth 2011-12-26 11:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sumeragi (Post 3919461)
It's the Club of Heracles!!!!!!!!!!


Damn the incompetent subbers!!!!!!!!!!

right right, I forgot Heracles' Club :p

Iron Maw 2011-12-26 11:02

Good series overall (8.5/10). I agree with most people here that finale wasn't as strong as should been especially with the sub-par animation and cutting of Satou's fight. The Twins backstory also just enlisted nothing but a "huh?" considering the huge deal they made out of it. Still the show was fun despite it's awkward moments and episodes. Good cast of characters and a decently executed absurd plot and script.

Would like a second season, but things look grim on the end. :(


Quote:

Originally Posted by Key Board (Post 3917821)
Well, the thing about wolves is this

They're don't beat up people because they're hungry
They get hungry because they need a reason to beat up people
Their priority isn't saving money on food. They lose more on hospital bills.

Whoever said it was like a Fight Club with food was right

Thought everybody knew this. :p

00Coyote 2011-12-26 11:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midonin (Post 3919387)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 00Coyote (Post 3918949)
Different hooks for different people

and Pervert/Freak/Barky is a thankfully non-whiny, "respectable" Main Characte

Something that is also a dime a dozen. When it's said about nearly every main character in nearly every series these days, is it really that rare?

This fact annoys me to no end. Every male MC is the same, same character design, same personality, same generic background, seemingly mass produced in some sweatshop assembly line and imported into anime. In order not to hate and rage against practically every male MC in anime, I'm forced to call "respectable" those MC that I'm not actively cheering for their sudden, violent and permanent death.

"Congratulations, you pass. I don't hate you enough to kill you."

"Err gee ... thanks."

Miraluka 2011-12-26 12:12

Spoiler for Satou will live forever within our hearts.:

Iron Maw 2011-12-26 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by 00Coyote (Post 3919532)
This fact annoys me to no end. Every male MC is the same, same character design, same personality, same generic background, seemingly mass produced in some sweatshop assembly line and imported into anime. In order not to hate and rage against practically every male MC in anime, I'm forced to call "respectable" those MC that I'm not actively cheering for their sudden, violent and permanent death.

"Congratulations, you pass. I don't hate you enough to kill you."

"Err gee ... thanks."

Eh, well we have to take what we can get sometimes. :heh:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilfriback (Post 3919559)
Spoiler for Satou will live forever within our hearts.:

So Ume finally killed him? :p

Yui Is My Wife 2011-12-26 14:22

...

Since we loyal Bento-fans are ALL gonna pay for the Blu-Rays, they better darned well have have an Extra-feature of how "the fight" turned out, since the Sales for the First-Three Volumes would be more than enough to allow them to animate it. :)

Even if they don't do it, seeing Sen-Oneechan smile like an adorable-angel after eating that de-licious Unagi Bentou would still justify the cost anyways. :)

Xagzan 2011-12-26 14:50

Finally watched!

Man, I had read here today and yesterday how the tragedy the twins supposedly underwent was pretty underwhelming. And in a way it was. But when you consider that such a big part of the bento fights is fighting to get the prize, without which a considerable amount of fun and flavor is apparently lost, what Heracles was doing to the twins was basically the equivalent of school kids telling another kid "you can't play with us anymore" at recess.

No matter what the reasoning behind it, that can be really hurtful. I understand the twins' sadness over it, and it was nice to see them "make friends" there at the end.

Did feel a little bad for Ayame though, when she heard Sato went back to Sen's place. Her little jealousy and "ano baka" moment was just too cute. :heh: Poor thing, Sato's obviously got Sen foremost on his mind.

One more thing, Epic Ume clothesline. POW right in the kisser :p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife (Post 3919727)
And her reputation-and-life-destroying and traumatic bullying of Satou isn't? :)

Sato doesn't look traumatized or like he's had his life destroyed to me. :confused: His reputation is perfectly fine as well, and he has the respect of all the other wolves.

Yui Is My Wife 2011-12-26 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xagzan (Post 3919728)

Sato doesn't look traumatized or like he's had his life destroyed to me. :confused: His reputation is perfectly fine as well, and he has the respect of all the other wolves.

Though once he grows up and enters adult-society (like the sweet-and-gentle sempai of Wizard did), he will have to endure the CONSTANT slander of people who won't stop whispering "that deviant who flashes himself in public", and he'll find out the hard way that those outside the Warrior-Society of Wolves are neither forgiving NOR forgetting.

...

blitz1/2 2011-12-26 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife (Post 3919735)
Though once he grows up and enters adult-society (like the sweet-and-gentle sempai of Wizard did), he will have to endure the CONSTANT slander of people who won't stop whispering "that deviant who flashes himself in public", and he'll find out the hard way that those outside the Warrior-Society of Wolves are neither forgiving NOR forgetting.

Thanks to that bitch. :mad:

Maybe he's already traumatised and thus uses the bento fights to vent out frustrations (but with a sense of honour). i mean, i do the same for kendo lol.

Miraluka 2011-12-26 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yui Is My Wife (Post 3919709)
Since we loyal Bento-fans are ALL gonna pay for the Blu-Rays, they better darned well have have an Extra-feature of how "the fight" turned out, since the Sales for the First-Three Volumes would be more than enough to allow them to animate it. :)

That is actually possible taking in account how Shaft added about 5 extra minutes in thei 4 BD.





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