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GDB 2011-10-02 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Jason:. (Post 3789500)
Is it possible for two Masters to summon a Servent of the same class or is it one Master per class?

Not sure if the "spoiler rule is not applied" in this thread applies to Fate/Hollow Ataraxia as well or not, but going to put the answer to that in tags just in case.

Spoiler for F/HA:

Haak 2011-10-02 16:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asuras (Post 3789494)
I understand there are more ancient personas than the ones seen in the first series, but does each class (no matter the character) possess the same abilities?

No, each servant has their own abilities. However a heroic spirit is often summoned into a class that suits them the most. Saber, for example, can only be summoned in the Saber class (But that's mostly due to a certain contract she made). The Lancer of FSN could've also been summoned as a Berserker or a Caster because of his wide range of abilities. Heroic spirits that are generally only good at magic will usually go into the Caster class. This means that each class will generally possess similar abilities (Saber servants will be powerful melee fighter, Archers will excel in projectiles, Casters will excell in magic etc) but only because of their own abilities that decide what class they go in. So it's really the other way round. The class doesn't determine their abilities. Their abilities determines their class.

However, each servant is given an extra ability depending on their class. Saber servants get given a Riding ability, Archer servants get given Independant Action. Assassins servants get given Presence Concealment and Berserkers are given Mad Enchancement. Don't know about the others.

Kagayaki 2011-10-02 16:51

The extra abilities that each class gets that Haak explained are listed here.

http://typemoon.wikia.com/wiki/Servant_classes

Cherry_Lover 2011-10-02 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Jason:. (Post 3789500)
Is it possible for two Masters to summon a Servent of the same class or is it one Master per class?

It's not clear.

It's never shown to have happened, but it's never explicitly stated to be impossible either, to my knowledge.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB (Post 3789508)
Not sure if the "spoiler rule is not applied" in this thread applies to Fate/Hollow Ataraxia as well or not, but going to put the answer to that in tags just in case.

Spoiler for F/HA:

That doesn't count. It's one servant split into two versions, not two seperate servants (in the game, IIRC, the servants in question are played by Saber and Saber Alter).

kk2extreme 2011-10-02 19:07

How exactly do you take over someone else servant? In FSN UBW, Rin took over Saber, and in FSN, Caster killed her master and someone else took over the master spot (?)

jzmagic 2011-10-02 19:18

It's back! 1st episode was pure sex. I really feel for Kariya.

Who else was having an orgasm during the summoning scene at the end?

Also, Ilya is Shirou's half sister correct?

GDB 2011-10-02 19:18

Sever the link between Master and Servant, and then supplement a new link.

Kusa-San 2011-10-02 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by jzmagic (Post 3789765)
Also, Ilya is Shirou's half sister correct?

No, not at all. Shirou is not Kuritsugu's biological son.

alumnox 2011-10-02 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by .:Jason:. (Post 3789500)
Is it possible for two Masters to summon a Servent of the same class or is it one Master per class?

Its one master per class and its the main reason the Einzbern`s introduced back in the 3rd war an eight class avenger.

Although, one magus can handle more than 1 servant but the problem with that as Rin explained in FSN is that the power of the servants goes down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by kk2extreme (Post 3789753)
How exactly do you take over someone else servant? In FSN UBW, Rin took over Saber, and in FSN, Caster killed her master and someone else took over the master spot (?)

You can take over another servant in various ways. The only thing the servant needs to stay active is magic energy so once you kill the master the servant can handle to be by itself for around 3 days (more or less depending on previous actions) and they can use that time to find a master with out servant for example (reason why masters kill them even if the servant is gone) or a human with magic energy like Sōichirō Kuzuki and make a new contract.

That's another reason why they check for other people with magic capabilities, they might not be magus but for a servant with out master they are a last resort to keep them going.

Another way its if the master release the servant (crazy stuff but its told as a possibility in FSN)

An finally if the servant kills the master as Caster did in FSN.

The Rule breaker was the noble phantasm of Caster in FSN, that thing was able to break any contract so she was able to break the contract between masters and servants.

EDIT.

Ok I went to take out my Tsukihime Notes and there are 2 other possibilities to take over another servant.

The Book of False Attendent Edit
Is a Mystic Code that can allow someone to become a surrogate Master by passing a limited form of another Master's Command Seals into a specifically prepared receptacle. This device is not as efficient as a genuine Command Spell. This is what Shinji used in FSN to control Raider bcs the true master was Sakura.

and

Shared Mastership Edit
It is possible to modify the summoning ritual in order to share the burden of a Servant. The only known case of this allowed the summoner to place the burden of providing Prana to the Servant on his wife, while he retained the Command Spells. This one its a spoiler for the fate zero, no clue if I can tell about it or not.

Kusa-San 2011-10-02 19:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by kk2extreme (Post 3789753)
How exactly do you take over someone else servant? In FSN UBW, Rin took over Saber, and in FSN, Caster killed her master and someone else took over the master spot (?)

In UBW, it's because of Caster's Rule Breaker.

whatbob1 2011-10-02 19:38

Step-sister would probably be the correct term.

jzmagic 2011-10-02 19:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kusa-San (Post 3789785)
No, not at all. Shirou is not Kuritsugu's biological son.

It's been so long since I watched F/SN, forgot he was adopted after the big disaster in the city :heh:

GDB 2011-10-02 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by alumnox (Post 3789787)
You can take over another servant in various ways. The only thing the servant needs to stay active is magic energy so once you kill the master the servant can handle to be by itself around 3 days (more or less depending on previous actions) and they can use that time to find a master with out servant for example (reason why masters kill them even if the servant is gone) and make a new contract.

It's definitely not three days. Archer class's Independent Action allows 2 days, and that's considered far, FAR above normal. I'd say one day max, probably only a handful of hours if they weren't mana-capped.

Kusa-San 2011-10-02 19:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatbob1 (Post 3789794)
Step-sister would probably be the correct term.

For Illya, it's more future wife than anything else :heh:

alumnox 2011-10-02 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB (Post 3789800)
It's definitely not three days. Archer class's Independent Action allows 2 days, and that's considered far, FAR above normal. I'd say one day max, probably only a handful of hours if they weren't mana-capped.

In the Tsukihime Notes I remember it was 3 days (I could be wrong) but its exactly as you said, you cant expect them to survive a lot of time with out master and even less if they fought already.

Its a matter of how much magical energy they manage to store before the link is broken but even if its a lot that wont be enough to hold them for more of a few days

Edit.

Went to read my Tsukihime Notes and says.

A Servant without a Master can make a pact with an unclaimed Master at will, though the Master must formalize a contract with the Summoned Servant by acknowledging their respective roles. The process creates a link between the two, allowing the Master to support the Servant with their Prana or an external source. The time a servant can keep the spirit without a master its not an exact number as it depends greatly on the magic capabilities of the Servant, though must of the times Caster class would likely be able to sustain itself longer that any other class.

GDB 2011-10-02 20:06

Why would Servant and Master info be in the Tsukihime notes?

TwilightsCall 2011-10-02 20:16

Well, after killing her own master, I seem to remember Caster's flashback saying that she wouldn't have lasted the night (I think it even mentioned something like after an hour or two she had started to disappear?). On top of that, they need more then magical energy to stay materialized. They need an anchor in this world or else they'll disappear no matter how much magical energy they have, same reason why Assassin was bound to the land at the Ryudou Temple, even though Caster had his command spells.

Also, direct quote from the F/SN Visual Novel:
Quote:

Independant Action: B
Ability that allows independant movement even after the Master's magical energy supply is cut off. With Rank B, it is possible for a Servant to stay in this world for two days after losing its Master.
I think its pretty safe to say based on that that there is no way for a non-Archer servant to last more then a few hours, let alone an entire day, without a master.

alumnox 2011-10-02 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwilightsCall (Post 3789850)
Well, after killing her own master, I seem to remember Caster's flashback saying that she wouldn't have lasted the night (I think it even mentioned something like after an hour or two she had started to disappear?). On top of that, they need more then magical energy to stay materialized. They need an anchor in this world or else they'll disappear no matter how much magical energy they have, same reason why Assassin was bound to the land at the Ryudou Temple, even though Caster had his command spells.

Also, direct quote from the F/SN Visual Novel:


I think its pretty safe to say based on that that there is no way for a non-Archer servant to last more then a few hours, let alone an entire day, without a master.

Exactly, I remember her saying she was fading away, I guess she kill him before storing enough prana or the explanation was not taking in consideration the ability of independant movement as it says the Caster class can hold more time but we don't know exactly how much time that can be.


Quote:

Originally Posted by GDB (Post 3789835)
Why would Servant and Master info be in the Tsukihime notes?

Don't know really.. back in 2006 or 2007 a lot of info came out as booklets and my universitty buddy was a big fan and well versed in Japanese so he translate a bit of those and I kept the file. The title on them was Tsukihime notes and I remember they came with information from Kara no Kyoukai, Tsukihime, Fate and melty blood.

ars89 2011-10-02 21:08

Where is Shinji in all this. Wouldn't he be the Matou's hope since he's older than Sakura? Or at least he should be in training.

GDB 2011-10-02 21:08

He doesn't have any magical circuits, if I recall. There's no hope for him as a magus.


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