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sleepytrance 2003-11-16 06:18

Do you think Bittorrent is evil?
Mostly looking for the oppinions of fansubbers in general, but anyone else is good to hear from.

The reason why I question bittorrent, is that it has brought the fan-sub scence to a much larger audience. mIRC was complicated for too many people and never hit as large of an audience that bittorrent has. These days big named series like Naruto seems to get thousands of dl on the first hour of release.

Licensing companies now feel a greater rush to license products and try to stop the distribution to the anime audience. After-all, thousands of people getting anime for free is a huge loss of money for these licensing companies.

I am with many out there who has felt the frustration of watching a series, and just as it is about to get good or end (hikaru no go), it gets licensed. I don't know the history of licensing as well as others do, so I don't know exactly how much faster companines hase been licensing anime. I just have the feeling that the more popular Bittorrent gets, the faster licensing groups will try to take action... Or in certain cases (ghost in the shell) it will get license before animation production has even finished.

The ease of use and popularity is such a double edge sword... Everytime I go on bittorrent, I pray that I don't see Naruto on the "License List" *knock on wood*. I know series will continue to be fan-sub even if they are licensed... But have any of you tried to get One Piece episodes (epi 1-60 easy... 60+ hard)?

Maybe its time I start learning how to use mIRC...

Thany 2003-11-16 06:54

Forget it I'm just to careless today... :upset:

Moderator notes that perhaps Thanosk should actually read the rules before posting such things...

7thMethuselah 2003-11-16 08:41

BT isn't evil as long as it respects the moral rule of no licensed anime. Imo the real fans will get their hands on the anime they like one way or another, be it bittorrent, irc or any other means. BT is off course easy to use what will draw in alot of ppl who wouldn't have bothered to learn irc anyway.

But exposing anime to a bigger audience will also increase it popularity and the mroe people that watch it, the more that'll buy DVD, manga, merchandise, because popularity and sales also go hand in hand.

It's true there are alot more leechers through BT then you would have when it wasn't around, but you also have alot more fans that'll buy stuff.

BT is a great program (and animesuki a great site, imagine having to go through all those fansub sites every day) as long as you dont forget to buy animeproducts of shows you like. Support the anime scene if you are able to do so, even if it is only by a single DVD or manga!!!

AG3 2003-11-16 09:01

Evil!? BitTorrent isn't evil! It's probably the best damn program I've ever had the pleasure of using! Without BitTorrent and AnimeSuki, I would never have been the happy owner of all the Manga and Anime DVDs I am now.

Fansubs are a great way to "try before you buy" (especially where I live, since anime isn't shown on TV here), and to view series that for some reason or another never get licensed. It's just too bad that a lot people seem to forget how necessary the "buy" part is for the future of mangas and anime DVDs in English...

Gaara11 2003-11-16 10:26

BitTorrent, evil? Its a gift from God!
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

whatever123 2003-11-16 10:26

well in my case i would say that bittorent is the best thing ever.
my reasons r:
first i live in a place where i dont even get a decent U.S licensed anime and all anime that i get in my country r so altered to become children cartoon (butchered).

second i dont like the dubbing of the U.S licensed stuff as for the subtitled i enjoy the fansubs 10 times more than the licensed

third (i will get flamed for this) i dont even mind downloading licensed stuff i like to watch a whole series now than to wait a year or two to import the whole set

microlith 2003-11-16 10:32

BitTorrent is not evil, but the people who use it can be stupid and use it for less than legal purposes.

A post was very recently made linking to a site that was using BT to distribute DVD rips. In this case, it's that "group" that is being "evil" as they tarnish anime fandom and piss on the groups that MAKE the stuff and do all the work to begin with.

BT is software. It is amoral, and as such the "evilness" or "goodness" of what its used for is decided solely by the people using it.

OFFSPRiNGCo16 2003-11-16 12:14


Originally Posted by Gaara11
BitTorrent, evil? Its a gift from God!
:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

That is exactly what I wanted to say. Bittorrent is anything but evil. Like you said yourself sleepy, bittorrent allows the spread of anime to a much larger audience. Bittorrent is a) easier to use then mirc (even though I never really found mirc all that hard to use) b) cuts down the time for release and speeds up distribution and c) it can be taken down in an instant if a series becomes licensed etc.. For those reasons, bittorrent is a godsend.

NenMaster 2003-11-16 14:04

bt is evil its used to transfer illegal stuff. then again there about 5% thats is not illegal. was created to transfer files, legal or not.
and yes i do consider ALL fansubs illegal

Esperchld 2003-11-16 14:19

I will agree completely with microlith on this. bt is not evil, it is software, and as such is incapable of being evil. The evil is done by the people using the software. This is like saying 'guns are evil' or 'knives are evil' they are simply tools, and it is up to the person using them to decide if they will be used for good or evil.

Sleepytrance, How have the companies felt a greater rush to produce things to stop this distribution. The answer is they haven't. They are putting out more things because anime is becoming more profitable than it was in the past. I have been in this scene for a very long time and can safely say that it is still on the same basic curve that it has been for the last 10 years, and strangely enough it matches the demand curve. Imagine that.

method 2003-11-16 15:38

Companies really don't pay too much attention to what is being fansubbed and how long it has been going on. Look at Divergence Eve it was announced as licensed after episode 5 was released, do you really think they just waited until the series started to express any interest in it. Look at Naruto it is one of the most popular titles on bt yet it has not been licensed, that we know of.

JAppi 2003-11-16 16:28

Yes bt is evil. It connects you to the hacker internet. This is why everyone should use AOL and be free of the hacker internet.

Animaniac 2003-11-16 16:49

Looks like the RIAA and MPAA FUD has contaminated your mind into thinking file sharing is evil. BitTorrent is genius. It's the first working model of file transfer using distributed bandwidth. Now no sleasy corporation can patent it and charge people millions in the future for distributed bandwidth applications. This is prior art.

diabolistic 2003-11-16 17:03

Bittorrent isn't evil by nature.
But whether one chooses to upload licensed anime, midget porn, or hax0r programs is the user's decision; and will affect whether or not BT will share the same fate as napster.

This is the same "guns are evil" argument.

aquilus 2003-11-16 17:47

BitTorrent is an example of applied socialism ... which is a good thing, until people realize that they dont *have* to share. Cest la vie ;P

And in regards to evilness of sharing copyrighted stuff, that is a subjective question. Like pretty much everything, so ... everyone can decide for himself :D

Subaru-kun 2003-11-16 18:49

Of course not. Good and evil are subjective, anyways. Not only that, but there is nothing wrong with downloading licensed anime whatsoever, in my opinion. Often times (and I speak from personal experience when I say this), people don't have the kind of money to go out and buy a $20.00 to $40.00 DVD every week or so, thus limiting them from getting a selected DVD for quite some time. I actually would prefer to buy the DVDs, however, with the recent increase in pricing, it's not even once a month I'm given the opportunity to actually follow through with all of it.

Also, I agree with diabolistic; it is impossible for an object or program to be evil, since it does not have a will of its own. It is, in effect, those who use it that decide whether it is a constructive tool, or a destructive tool.

method 2003-11-16 18:57


Not only that, but there is nothing wrong with downloading licensed anime whatsoever, in my opinion.

Here we go again. Downloading licensed anime is bad and is frowned upon by the anime companies.

aquilus 2003-11-16 20:15


Originally Posted by method
Here we go again. Downloading licensed anime is bad and is frowned upon by the anime companies.

Im not going to let other people define my morals. To me, downloading copyrighted material, whether I can use/understand it or not, is the same. The consensus here is on different lines, however, and I will behave accordingly. Why is it worse, anyhow? If one likes a show he downloaded, and then buys the DVDs because of that, how is it different whether it was already released officially or not?

Neoelement 2003-11-16 20:43

Since when does something evil have to be a bad thing -__________-

To me it is one of the best (if not the best) PHP proggy ive used

And as long as the anime isnt licensed yet, who cares, just enjoy it blah

btw- Down with teh RIAA, Right Ignored Again & Again

method 2003-11-16 20:50

That's fine that you don't other people define your morals, but when its their property you are downloading you should abide by their rules.

Why is downloading licensed shows worse than downloading unlicensed shows?

The point of fansubbing was to raise awareness for titles so that they could be licensed by anime companies. Even though this is a direct violation of copyright laws, since they were doing a service for the companies and the fansubbers would stop subbing a show when it was licensed the companies turned a blind eye since they didn't see them as a threat to their titles. When shows are available after a show is licensed it could become a threat since people will turn to the cheapest route available which would be using the various p2p services.

Since you say that you buy the series that you watch I have no problem with you doing that, its just the people who don't do that I have a problem with.
Here's a topic over at gamefaqs that illustrates that.

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