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james0246 2013-03-27 00:14

[Manga] Naruto Chapter 625 Discussion Thread
Welcome to the weekly manga chapter discussion thread. This thread is created early to discuss spoilers and speculation about the upcoming chapter as well as discussion of said chapter once it has been released.

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Spoilers are released.

ronin myael 2013-03-27 03:53

well, chapter's out and i can't say i like how madara supposedly turned evil. looks like it was tobirama who really antagonized him and drove him to become "evil". so is tobirama the bad guy now? :twitch:

ranchan13 2013-03-27 04:10

And so, it was paranoia that turned Madara evil in the end.......

That has got to be one of the worst "How I became a villain" moments I've ever seen

Om Nerabdator 2013-03-27 04:38

so tobiramas hatred was the beginning of it all...

Kenu 2013-03-27 04:39

Agreed. Very weak.

It's almost he became a sook because he didn't get Hokage even though Jesus Hashirama said "I'll give it to you."

Weak sauce. Goes to show how the Uchiha line produced WeakSaucegay.

milan kyuubi 2013-03-27 04:42

Even Anakin had more valid reasons for turning evil then Madara. :D

Obelisk ze Tormentor 2013-03-27 04:48

I won’t instantly accuse this chapter as being the “lamest villain origin evahh!” or something like that, since we haven’t heard the complete story/flashback from Tobirama himself and just how strict or "cruel" he actually was toward the Uchihas that made Madara gave up any hope for peace between these two clans. We need more story from Tobirama's POV. Well, at least he supports democracy. Anyway, it’s nice that it’s Madara who came up with the name of Konoha.

thermopyle 2013-03-27 04:54

Ah Narut--Hashirama, kill yourself and the war will end and the Senju/Tobirama defenitley won't kill Madara. Tots.

Tobirama was the only one that didn't come out of this chapter looking like an idiot.

milan kyuubi 2013-03-27 05:09

So now both Shimura and Sarutobis were a major clan. Which is laughable since Shimura's weren't even mentioned in first part. Btv what happened to that clan that only Danzou remained. Probably the same thing as with the Senjus. And Hiriuzen, Asume and Konohamaru were the only Sarutobis in first part. I guess all this members of Sarutobis clan we are seeing now fighting Juubi were hiding in first part.

HasuMasu 2013-03-27 05:14

I didn't see anything wrong with that.

If it was fleshed out any more the flashback would be longer, which I'd like, but who else?

If the flashback is kept shorter it's rushed, if it's longer it's dragging.

There's no balance.

There's no hope.

I'm sorry, Hashirama, but I have to leave the village now.

wait what

Artimus_Prime 2013-03-27 07:11

1. So if Tobirama is killed, perhaps things turn out differently? as hashirama states, madara was being kind by given two choices. maybe he should have (like he says later) just ordered tobiramas death to really even the score…idk. this is weird to me. of course during all the fighting, they were definitely killing each other, but it seems like the uchiha battles from the madara/izuna vs hash/tobi perspective were more about submission with a silent rule not to inflict mortal wounds with tobirama breaking that agreement…

2. the senju were actually the ones in possession of the stone? and could read it!?
what exactly is madara's "other" interpretation? that cooperation is not the answer and only one path rules? madara seems to be willingly choosing to hate in order to gain power so that his vision prevails…

3. I'm fine with the shimura clan retcon…just hope to learn more about the uzumaki clan at some point…

~Yami~ 2013-03-27 07:15

I still think that Madara is only pretending to be evil....
He just treasured his clan too much....

To think that this Madara is resurrected right now is killing this flashback

Haloid 2013-03-27 07:35

Don't like this chapter. Hell, I don't like the way Kishimoto is handling this whole flashback. Not only is Madara's reason for turning evil weak and almost as bad as Obito's but Kishimoto trying to put the whole thing off on Tobirama?!

battle22 2013-03-27 07:37

Was it just me or Madara was like :
"Omg I'm so happy, we are all happy!"
*One tiny obstacle comes*
"...No this won't work. I quit. I leave this village. You all suck."
Lol, that's how I saw him in this chapter.

Luminion Lancer 2013-03-27 07:55

So...Madara's the very definition of "Rage Quit"? The moment things start to not go his way, he flips the table, calls you a loser and storms off to go and plot world-wide terrorism. I...can't believe I'm saying this but even Sasuke had more of a spine than this. Yeah sure I don't like Sasuke by any definition, but at least he didn't do something like "Naruto, I failed to capture that cat for our Rank D mission so I'm leaving the village to start a criminal organization dedicated to wiping out all cats for my true dream".

Artimus_Prime 2013-03-27 08:45


Originally Posted by Haloid (Post 4607885)
Don't like this chapter. Hell, I don't like the way Kishimoto is handling this whole flashback. Not only is Madara's reason for turning evil weak and almost as bad as Obito's but Kishimoto trying to put the whole thing off on Tobirama?!

i wouldn't say the author trying to put if off on tobirama…rather tobirama represents the ideology of the senju toward the uchiha that was passed downed from his father and likely even from the original beef between the sage sons. hashirama is the exception mostly due to his friendship with madara, but just has much through his lovey dovey-ness…
we know madara had severe affection for his brother(s) and wants desperately to keep his promise to him to protect the uchiha from the likes of leadership like tobirama. we at least know its not complete paranoia since we already know that tobirama eventually isolates the uchiha when he becomes hokage…
as far as madara becoming evil, he (and probably sasuke) has a dream of a different world without strife. he has read the tablet and has ultimately figured out a way to bring about this world. unfortunately, as we have know for a while, the sharingan works and strengthens via hate (can be argued when considering shisui and itachi) so he has to turn "evil" in order to gain more power.
as an aside, i would argue for fun that the "will of izuna" is in play here. izuna snapped madara out of an earlier treaty with the senju, because he (like tobirama) carried an ill-ideology toward the senju believing they would never get along…since madara is using his eyes its a constant reminder of this and his failure to save him…

i personally think tobirama was out of bounds for killing izuna...

also, when do we get to see the first edo tensei??

HasuMasu 2013-03-27 08:59

You know, I don't even remember anyone named Shimura.

james0246 2013-03-27 09:03


Originally Posted by Hasumi (Post 4607967)
You know, I don't even remember anyone named Shimura.

The Shimura are Danzou's clan.


Tobirama was pretty damn cold this chapter. Purposely revealing information to Hashirama all the while knowing Madara is hanging outside the window. It's hard to take anything Tobirama says too seriously considering how extraordinarily biased he actually is.

Still, Madara gave up far to easily. He could have stayed and fought to convince the village that he wanted peace, that he wanted to be a part of their peace (Yet another distinction between Naruto and Madara). But instead he fled to create his own peace, based on the ideology of subjugation (which is Tobirama's partial solution as well). It seems Hashirama wasn't just the physically stronger person, he was also spiritual and mentally stronger as well.

Obelisk ze Tormentor 2013-03-27 09:15


Originally Posted by Artimus_Prime (Post 4607956)
also, when do we get to see the first edo tensei??

If we don't get it during Hash's flashback, we'll probably get it during Tobirama's flashback.

ChronoReverse 2013-03-27 09:22

No matter how you look at it, Tobirama has been a huge part of the problem so far in this flashback and it's Hashirama telling the story lol.

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