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SKoRPioN9x 2003-11-06 00:38

Gunslinger Girl discussion
I just watched episode 3 today (was waiting for ANBU's release). I thought it was a good episode. Glad it wasn't another recap of the first two episodes :heh: . I thought the end was interesting. It kind of reminded me of an episode of Outlaw Star I saw a long time ago:
I never watched OS much, but I liked that episode. I like sad anime - i don't know why. I still have yet to see Grave of the Fireflies. I'll have to pick it up some day.
Anyway, since the old forum is gone and the old GSG threads were lost, here's a new one to discuss the series :).

Lina 2003-11-06 01:10

I liked episode 3.. I hope we don't get any more recaps like 2. The way the blonde girl handled her mission at the end took me by surprise.. but only a little.. since I've seen this in an episode of Noir before.

koki_2706 2003-11-06 06:25

Sorry, does anybody know which are the guns that are used by the girls?
Too sad to say, I only know that Henrietta is using a P90 submachine gun...

K_R 2003-11-06 09:28

The seichi release has the gun info... But since you're unlikely to get our version, I'll post the info here. Gun info is only provided for weapons that have been fired. This is the info as they appear in the pre-episode notes.

Fabrique Nationale P90
Caliber: 5.7x28mm SS190
Operation: Blowback, closed breech; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 50 rounds
Weight: 3 kg (6.6 lbs)
Overall length : 500mm (19.7")
Barrel length: 263 mm (10.3")
Rate of fire: 900 RPM (max)
Effective range: 200 meters

The FN P90 was designed in the 1980s around a NATO research
contract for a weapon system with a compact design and body
armour penetration capabilities.

The P90 was initially intended as a compact weapon for army
personnel whose duties do not require the use of assault rifles - tank crews, artillery crews, etc.
But due to its
compact design, high accuracy and high armour penetration,
it has become popular amongst special operations units and law
enforcement agencies around the World.

Its advantages over its counterparts include:
Completely ambidextrous,
Downward ejection system (empty casing cannot interfere with the user),
The SS190 ammuntion...

5.7x28mm SS190

Bullet Type: FMJ - Standard Ball
Length: 40.5 mm (1.59")
Cartridge Weight: 6g (93 gr.)
Weight of Projectile: 2.02g (31 gr.)
Muzzle Velocity: 715 m/s (2,346 fps)

The 5.7x28mm SS190 ammunition has been designed to bridge the gap between the 9mm ammunition and the 5.56 x 45mm. The 9mm FMJ round will not penetrate modern body armor and the 5.56mm (.223 Rem.) rifle ammunition creates over-penetration concerns in a close combat situation or urban warfare.

The SS190 has unique design, utilizing two metal inserts. The tip of the ogive has a steel penetrator followed by an aluminum core that is heavier than the forward tip. This causes the bullet to tumble in soft body tissue after 2 inches of penetration. This design virtually eliminates the risk of over penetration. This also creates a large wound cavity and quick incapacitation.

The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90. The 5.7 ammunition has only 60% of the recoil impulse of a 9mm. The muzzle velocity of the SS190 is 2,346fps when fired from the P90.



Israel Military Industries Galil MAR
Caliber: 5.56 x 45mm M855, SS109
Operation: Gas operated, rotating bolt; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 35 rounds
Weight: 2.98 kg (6.6 lbs)
Overall length : 710mm (28")
Barrel length: 195mm (7.7")
Rate of fire: 700 RPM (max)
Effective range: 300 meters

The IMI Galil Micro Assault Rifle is the newest and smallest
member of the Galil family. It was introduced in the early
1990s with the same NATO design objectives as the FN P90;
a compact weapon with body armour penetration capabilities.

The Galil MAR never saw the expected mass adoption into the
Israeli Defense Force due to a design flaw in the handguards -
during full-auto and rapid semi-auto firing, the handguards would
heat up to the point that it became impossible to hold the weapon.

In 200 a revised Galil MAR was introduced. The major changes are:
improved heat-absorbing handguards and new light-weight fiber
stock. Optional extra is a M1913 rail on the receiver - on which
Rico's MAR has the Trijicon ACOG Reflex sight attached.

Ceská Zbrojovka Models 75
Caliber: 9x19mm Parabellum
Operation: Tilting barrel, locked breech; semi-automatic
Trigger Mechanism: Double action or single action
Magazine Capacity: 16 rounds, double stacked
Weight: 1.0 kg (2.2 lbs)
Overall length : 206mm (8.1")
Barrel length: 120mm (4.7")

First produced in 1975, the CZ75 is a Czechoslovakian designed handgun that can be carried cocked-and-locked. "Cocked-and-locked" refers to having a round chambered with the hammer cocked, and the safety on. This carry method allows the gun to be brought into action quickly and smoothly.

The CZ75 is chambered for the 9mm Luger/Parabellum (9mmL) cartridge which was unusual because the 9mm is a NATO cartridge, and NATO was considered to be the enemy of Czechoslovakia which was under the Warsaw Pact at the time. It is surmised that the CZ75 was used by special agents who were trained to work behind enemy lines, and thus it was fitting to have a gun that would use enemy ammunition instead of domestic cartridges.

Ironically, the CZ75 is a much better gun than the one that was issued to the Czechoslovakian army.

Snayperskaya Vintovka Dragunova
(Sniper Rifle Dragunov)
Caliber: Russian 7.62x54mm Rimmed
Operation: Gas operated, short stroke, rotating bolt; semi-automatic
Capacity: 10 rounds
Weight: 4.31kg (9.5lbs)
Overall Length: 1225mm (48.2")
Barrel Length: 620mm (24.4")
Rate of Fire: 30 RPM (max)
Scope Type: PSO-1

Designed by Yevgeniy Feodorovich Dragunov between 1958 and
1962, the SVD was the first Russian rifle exclusively designed
from scratch as a sniper rifle, to replace the SVT-40 sniper rifle.

Its maximum effective range is 1300m with the PSO-1 or 800m
without it. The PSO-1 optical sight has a 6-degree field of view.
It contains an integral infrared detection aid and an illuminated
rangefinder recticle. Thus, the SVD is effective in daylight against
point targets or at night against active infrared emitters.

The SVD can fire light ball, heavy ball, steel core, tracer and
anti-tank incendiary ammunition.



Heckler & Koch G3A3
Caliber: 7.62 x 51mm NATO
Operation: Roller-locked delayed blowback; select fire
Magazine Capacity: 20 rounds
Weight: 4.4 kg (9.7 lbs)
Overall length : 1025mm (40.3")
Barrel length: 450mm (17.3")
Rate of fire: 550 RPM (max)
Effective range: 600 meters

The G3 is the standard rifle of the Deutsche Bundeswehr (German Army). It is the weapon that put the fledgling HK on the map - former Mauser engineers worked to come up with a design that would supercede the G1, essentially an FN FAL rifle, since Fabrique Nationale would not license Germany to produce it.

The West German Army adopted the G3 (Gewehr 3) rifle in 1959. As many as 50 nations have since adopted the G3 as their standard infantry arm. Though now superceded in Germany by the new G36, the G3 will continue to see service worldwide for some time.

Unlike the other G3 variants, which have folding or retractable
stocks, the A3 is equipped with a fixed polymer stock.

All G3s suffer from heaviness and excessive recoil of the 7.62 x 51 cartridge in automatic fire.


Shii 2003-11-06 11:56

Actually, K_R, I held out for Seichi's release. :)

nojevo 2003-11-06 11:57

damn, u must have done some detailed reaserch for each weapon. The only one i recognize is the p90 just because i play a bit of cs, but the rest of them never heard of emm.

koki_2706 2003-11-06 12:38

[QUOTE]The SS190 will perforate 48 layers of Kevlar up to 200 meters when fired from the P90.[QUOTE]

Funny, although it says the P90 will penetrate Kevlar from some distance, I noticed that in the anime that it does not seem to do so.

The best example is in the first episode, when the two republic guys are trying to take cover behind an overturned table. Despite Henrietta spraying dozens of rounds from her P90 at the table, no round can be seen penerating the wood.

This example is further supported by the fact that in cs, the P90 cannot shoot through doors, walls or even wooden boxes...

BME 2003-11-06 13:01

Finally GG is going somewhere, this was a great episode. Especially when Rico met the bellboy (very predictable btw) in the hall.

What was I supposed to say in a situation like this? Soukka. Gomen, ne?" *Shots Bellboy*

kagetsu 2003-11-06 16:12

Yea it was. But was anyone else sitting there watching go "shoot him, shoot him!". Maybe its just me but i was lol. And then the end hopefully everyone got the meaning behind it and not just the outcome, thats what blew me away.

K_R 2003-11-06 17:44

Gun realism takes a backseat to artistic license. It wouldn't be as exciting if Henrietta could just shoot people through wooden obstacles.

Go-lytely 2003-11-06 17:59

Maybe that was a steel reinforced sofa? Anyway, it would have been cooler if the bullets went right through the sofa. Further reinforcing the idea of Henrietta as a unstoppable killing machine.

Shii 2003-11-06 18:13


Originally Posted by Solidus
Finally GG is going somewhere, this was a great episode. Especially when Rico met the bellboy (very predictable btw) in the hall.

Only somewhat predictable... and it was very spooky nonetheless. I was waiting for the sound of a gunshot and it never came. Brr.

BTW, Use Spoiler Tags :nono:

K_R 2003-11-06 20:11

Unrelated note, I thought my internet connection had died while I was out yesterday - winny hadn't found a single 04 raw. Checked the website to find that 04 is on next week... I hope it doesn't turn out to be a fortnightly show...

Anlushac11 2003-11-06 22:49

I must be the only one who was saddened by epsiode 03.



Also for the jobs they are doing Henrietta could have been using subsonic ammo or aluminum rounds. They have good initial penetration and very little penetration of walls and zuch to minimize chance of scattered shots pentrating through walls and such. Also if they were doing a shootout in a building subsonic ammo is much quieter. Law Enforcement and Special Forces have started using subsonic ammo in at least 9mm and I think it has been applied to other calibers as well.

The tumbling rounds cause massive amounts of hydrostatic shock. Even though only one or two rounds may hit they do such massive tissue damage upon impact the body cant deal with it and can shut down.

koki_2706 2003-11-07 10:32

I've just realised that the G3 rifle used by Triela also appears in cs...

IMSabbel 2003-11-07 11:02

The G3 in counterstrike is the sniping variant, it has a slighly longer barrel and a optic scopt.

The G3 is quite a bitch if you fire it on full auto. After the 3rd shot, your aim will be totaly off. (but the recoilwith single fire isnt really that strong. The first time i shot it in the army i was quite surprised how little there was. But it is LOUD.)

btw: most movies/animes ect TOTALY fuck up the penetration power of rifle/pistol rounds.
That scene in episode 1 totally sucked, especially compared to how realistic the rest was...

in my grandfathers company back in ww2, one didnt remove the 9mm bullet of his pistol from the bullet chamber while cleaning (common mistake to forget the check after removing the mag). It penetrated a brick wall and hit another soldier behind it in the leg.

While in the army, they showed us how little "cover" things like cars, doors ect give. They had one old picture from an accident, where a soldier shot his truck with his g3 (yeah, forgot to remove mag while doing the standart guncheck before entering it). The 7.62x52 bullet completely penetrated the engine and hit the ground on the other side of the truck....

kagetsu 2003-11-07 17:55

I wouldn't say alot of movies screw up those kind of scenes with cars though. Cop car doors are built bullet proofed. Look at a car. You'll see a trim going around the whole car up until the front and passenger doors because of this. Also when being fired upon from broadside you would hide behind your front tire so that bullets fired would hit the engine and theres so much metal there the projectile of the bullet would be offcourse if hit over there. And obviously you wouldn't go behind the back tire cause the gas tank is right there.

Captain K 2003-11-07 18:19

I don't have any personal experience with firearms, but from what I understand, movies and television really do screw up the effects of slugs hitting inanimate objects. Most assault rifles fire supersonic ammunition (that's nothing special or sci-fi like "rocket bullets" or anything... it just means the slugs travel faster than the speed of sound) and from what I understand firing one into a metal car frame doesn't just punch a tiny hole--it really tears the thing up. IE, if you unloaded a couple clips with an M16A2 into the side of your average car, you wouldn't just have 60 or so holes in the side of the frame--you'd have a lot of twisted and deformed metal (and definitely anyone sitting in the car would be perforated as well, as the bullets would certainly travel all the way through the car).

Correct me if I'm wrong those with military experiece?

koki_2706 2003-11-07 18:42

I don't think so.
When I was at the range using M16 in the army, the 5.56 mm round only makes a small hole in the fibreglass target, all this from only a distance of 100m.

Relentless 2003-11-07 19:28


Originally Posted by K_R
Unrelated note, I thought my internet connection had died while I was out yesterday - winny hadn't found a single 04 raw. Checked the website to find that 04 is on next week... I hope it doesn't turn out to be a fortnightly show...

Unrelated note? IMHO it's more on topic than the course this thread is going. I don't want to offend anybody, but while I consider it's very nice the staff has researched their weapons and ballistics, I don't consider it essential. In fact, I hope they invested as much effort in their accurate portrayal of modern fireguns as they should have devoted to plot, characterization and dialogue.

So far I'm not complaining. The action shown is realistic enough for me: guns are not infallible, coordinating your team ias a must, combat is chaotic and unpredictable, and shooting a human being is very messy. But the best is, the series is not focusing on the action, rather it shows the tragic lives those girls have been forced to live; even when in some twisted sense, they might feel grateful. After watching ep. 3, I could only think: "Merciful Lord, what a sad story!"

I was also waiting for ep. 4. this week. If they're going to bi-weekly broadcasting, it'll be a real agony, being my favorite new anime.

BTW, do you think ep. 4 will be based on manga chapter 3? When the website still listed its on-air date as on 5th, the summary mentioned Christmas or Santa Claus.

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