[Urei]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

From what I recall, the engines got boosted as you said (67500 kg versus 72500kg), but the prototype had several systems which were not present with the mass-produced VF-19F: the rear-firing laser turret that was the head isn't listed on the VF-19's specifications, and it had two internal pallets which could carry two micromissile clusters, 2x24 micromissile launchers, or four missiles) and a chaff dispenser which don't appear on the specifications for the VF-19's that appear in Macross 7.

If you mean - 1 x small-bore rear anti-aircraft beam gun (mounted center dorsal section in Fighter/GERWALK mode, becomes head turret in Battroid mode) Then both YF-19 and VF-19 has it. Their Standard armament is identical. The only real difference is what I listed below. Aside from that small feature VF-19 is leap improvement.


YF-19

2 x Stonewell/Roice B-7 standard internal pallets (mounted ventral side fuselage in Fighter mode, lower legs in GERWALK/Battroid modes) featuring air-to-air/air-to-ground general-purpose micro-missile pallets, Bifors BMM-24 all-regime high-maneuverability micro-missile cluster, OR 2 x [4 x] B-19A YF-19-exclusive internal weapons pallets.
4 x chaff dispensers (mounted aft)

VF-19F

# 2 x internal Little Rock launch systems featuring 24 x high maneuverability micro-missiles OR 6 x medium-range high maneuverability missiles each (mounted ventral side fuselage in Fighter mode, lower legs in GERWALK/Battroid modes); pallet can be alternately equipped with other weapon packs.


In other words aside from having additional 4x chaff's and an exclusive internal weapon pallets it does not posses much more firepower. Especially that the VF-19 pallets can be left on the plane while having other Packs equipped.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

What it did offer was the super pack that FAST pack and the later Spiritia pod. Oh, and the ability to mount Sound Booster units and speaker pods. The Fire Valkyrie also had its g-limiters set to a higher tolerance (+39g versus the +35.5 for the VF-19F/S) and seemed to use an older engine and was about 150 kg lighter than the other configurations... which were themselves 200kg lighter than the prototype. Otherwise the specs were the same or slightly downgraded (weapons loadout), with the exception of more thrust due to newer engines and the lighter weight.

Let's not go over the top with descriptions and stray off from the main point.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

... it was such a 'second line' fighter that the elite of Macross 7's squadrons, Diamond Force, was using it. The only reason it was becoming 'second line' as far as elites were concerned was because the VF-19 and VF-22 had swung into full production at that point and were replacing it. Up to that stage, it was considered a top-line fighter, especially due to its stealth capabilities. Its main Achilles heel was, as I noted, the fact it performed poorly in atmosphere compared to previous planes due to an less aerodynamic shape.

Well, VF-17 is larger, heavier and slower. It's a unit that was used as a fighting force because it was indeed more useful then Thunderbolt. Still, it had a lot of limitation which was the reason why Project Supernova fired up. It just never met the requirements that the UN Spacey had for a next gen fighter. VF-19 covered that area later on. Simply put

Originally Posted by Haesslich

//until the VF-19 came out as a mass-production unit, which itself was eclipsed by the VF-22 which carried an extra energy cannon, a lot of micro-missiles, and the ability to pull +60G's compared to the VF-19's +35G limit... much less the VF-17.

I always wondered about those g. limits in VF-22. It's a lot heavier then VF-19F has considerably less thrust force and thus a much weaker TtW ratio. It can withstand more G.Force while turning or performing maneuvers but with those specs it still falls behind in dogfight. Besides, this additional mass is a major drawback when performing said maneuvers. I say this G.Limit is to withstand a 1 ton mass increase of an empty plane + some armament bonuses simply.

I never saw VF-22 as a better unit then VF-19. It's different but it's hard to say which one is better suited for you, with those specs.

Originally Posted by Haesslich

The VF-25 is a return to the philosophy that planes should be good in most all roles without necessarily needing to be superior in any one function, with the interchangeable packs giving it the extra edge required to perform superbly in dogfighting (Super pack), attack/strike roles (Armored pack), or support functions (Sniper, Recon variants). And best of all, you could give the Sniper rifle to a VF with a Super or Armored pack as needed, or re-equip the Recon variant by letting it land long enough to exchange packs. And, unlike previous versions of the Armored pack, the VF-25 was able to maintain its maneuverability even despite the extra mass of armor and micromissile launchers as well as the ability to transform. A major breakthrough, there. Oh, and it maintains the 'easy to use' functionality that the VF-171 had, as Alto was able to get it going without much trouble despite not having any real flight time in a front-line Valkyrie up until that point.//


//Overall, the main breakthrough of the VF-25 isn't its overwhelming performance in terms of speed as compared to other planes so much as its ability to be superior in any role you give it with the right equipment, and still be able to do alright without it because it's not specialized more for one thing than another.

But it is it's performance. It has 2x the thrust of VF-19 and around 2.5x the thrust of VF-22 while having less mass then VF-19 and the Sumo VF-22. In addition all of those specs are boosted by it's super FAST Pack to such an extent that it produces so much g.force that it's almost irrational. There were some calculations on another board that with super FAST pack the g. forces produced go well over 90. An assumption based on the comparison between the power of a VF-1 and it's FAST pack power.

If you gain additional verniers, armor, and weapons with a Full Armor pack and still have 2x the thrust of VF-19 then I can't possibly imagine how long would a 19 last against such an oponent.

VF-25 is indeed tuned with the technology and interface the VF-19/22 lacks. It's only natural that it's an improvement as the world goes on with it's Fighter development. Besides I don't know what kind of maniac would think that ne next line fighters would be less pilot friendly with the technology progress. It probably is easier to handle then Vf-19 but it most certainly ouperforms it as well as 22 in every aspect.