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Old 2009-05-30, 12:42   Link #16323
illusion control
Join Date: Mar 2004
Age: 36
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The Seitenkan Thread FAQ of Haruhi Suzumiya

What is all of this?

The easiest way to answer is with the very first section of the very first post in this thread:

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
What would you think if Kyon became a girl with tremendous moe appeal? If Haruhi became a man that defines new pinnacle of hotbloodedness? And what about the other characters of this already legendary story? Interested? Then please read on.

This thread is for the discussion of the fan project entitled "The Genderbending of Haruhi Suzumiya", where we will be attempting to reconstruct the series as if Haruhi was a boy, Kyon was a girl, and everyone else's genders have also been turned topsy-turvy.

We are constantly looking for people's help with this project. Feel free to jump in at any time. You will be welcomed with open arms.
If you read nothing else in this thread, then at least read that first post.

Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
The FAQ is in need of much work. First thing that needs to be posted is a disclaimer that says "This shit hella ain't finalized yet."

Who are the people I should look out for?

Listing everyone who could be considered a regular of this thread will take far too long, and be of little use. The really important people you need to know about are the forum moderators, since they're the ones with actual power.

Other than that, the current "boss" (or danchou) is DJ RockmanX, "RmX" for short. After that, it gets a bit more murky and complicated, since people fall in and out of project positions as circumstances dictate. The only good rule of thumb to follow is that the people to note are those who are working on a project at the moment, and will likely be working on it for an extended period of time.

Ideas are plentiful. Results are a little rarer.

Why did I get yelled at?

Simple answer: some of the regulars are short on temper and patience.

Longer answer: one or more of the following likely happened:
  • You brought up a topic that has been discussed to death before, and the regulars don't want to rehash old ground.
  • You brought up a controversial topic that has been discussed to death before, and the regulars don't want to reignite an old flamewar.
  • You rubbed someone the wrong way. This is so subjective that it would be pointless to list out all the possibilities here. Work it out in private messages if you have to.
  • You "demanded" (impolitely, it is implied) a change in the way a project is going. Regardless of your intent, it's how the suggestion is read that matters. Clarify that it's only a suggestion, and be prepared to be turned down unless the idea is really good.

Often (but not always) you will be told where and how you transgressed, since criticizing others is one of the favourite pastimes of the Internet. It may not make you feel any better, but at least now you know.

Getting defensive about it almost always exacerbates the situation, and may even get the mods involved. So don't do it.

How do I not get yelled at?
  • Use proper spelling and grammar. If we can't understand you, it is too easy to misunderstand your posts.
  • Only use vulgarities and swearwords sparingly, if at all. Overuse will make you seem confrontational and belligerent, since all we have to go by are your words.
  • Don't let your latest (or longrunning) fandom or obsession affect your views and posting. It gets old and tired very quickly to hear about something few others in the thread care about. Remember, we are here only for The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, and the genderbending thereof. (Some of us aren't even interested in other anime.) For anything else, expect to have to explain why we should care.
  • Pick your battles. Is it really necessary that something or other needs to happen in some project? If so, argue your case calmly and reasonably. If not, it's probably best to agree to disagree.

If you have a spare month or so, read the thread from the beginning to the end. In all likelihood, this is not a practical option.

This thread is huge! What's in it?

Honestly speaking, at least half of it is random conversation. (And about half of that is off-topic random conversation which has nothing to do with The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya, much less the genderbending version.) These conversations are tolerated, because there is a chance (a tiny chance, but a chance nevertheless) that an offhand remark can spark something greater.

The rest of it deals with hammering out the details of the genderbending effort. This can take a long time, and often no consensus or decision may come of it. This may lead to the problem of apparently "new ideas" not actually being all that new. There will be a list later in this post, for those who really want to know.

Also, the details can be really trivial, at least in the grand scheme of things.

What's important in this thread?

The entire Seitenkan over-project has two core aspects: fanart and fanfiction.

Fanart goes into this thread. Pretty simple.

Fanfiction, in this thread, is divided into three parts:
  • The rewriting of the original canon novels
  • Fanfiction of non-canon events involving genderbent MoHS characters
  • The "visual novel project"

The first two may be found in this in-thread archive.

The visual novel project is rather more specific, and can be found in this in-thread archive. It is the latest incarnation of the Crossroads concept.

Shouldn't it be "Haruhiko"?

Many of the project writers complained that they read "Haruhiko" as "Haruhi-ko", instead of "Haru-hiko". "Haruki" was decided upon as an alternative.

Similarly, "Itsuki" with different kanji is obviously not possible to portray easily in English, which is why "Itsuko" is used. Leaving it at "Itsuki" would have confused too many writers and readers to be worth it.

What's "Tsuji"/"Crossroads"?

It's basically another scenario: What if the genderbent cast were to meet or otherwise interact with their canon counterparts?

Being effectively a spinoff of a spinoff, it has not yet had enough time to coalesce into a concrete project. Concepts prior to the current incarnation included a doujin manga, a non-worksafe doujin manga, standard fanfiction (worksafe and otherwise), radio plays, so on and so forth.

Who decides what projects to work on?

Thread consensus. That's all.

This means that if you want to work on your own thing, feel free. If it's good enough and grows big enough, it could well become the new "thread project".

What's "Seitenkan"?

It's the romanized Japanese for "genderbend".

"Genderbending": thirteen letters.

"Genderswap": ten letters.

"Seitenkan": nine letters.

Matter of choice, really.

What happened to the novel rewrites?
Quoting the former official rewriter:

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Basically, I decided to switch mainly because I didn't see the novel rewrites really going anywhere or having much of a point. A visual novel however... it's like fanfiction, in a way. Artistically, it has a hell of a lot more merit than just rewriting someone else's work.

See, we had all these fantastic characters who embodied different archetypes than the original SOS-dan, and it seemed like such a waste if we just dropped them altogether. And that was about the time Danchou came up with the idea of us doing our own visual novel.

So yeah.
Kaisos is now working on the Visual Novel project.

If you want to submit your own rewrites, feel free, but do note that it has to be vetted and approved by majority consensus before it is made "official". (This is why there are so many edits listed in the archive.)

Once a rewrite has been made "final", no more changes (apart from minor grammatical or spelling alterations) may be made, without a lot of discussion and approval from the rest of the thread.

I want to suggest something for the FAQ/archive...
Send me (dkellis) a private message. I may not reply to it, but I will read it, and will act on it as soon as I can.


Things Discussed In This Thread

Character Names
From original to genderbent:
  • Kyon - Kyon (we refer to her as "Kyonko" in-thread, so we won't get confused, but she has always been "Kyon" in the actual fiction.)
  • Haruhi Suzumiya - Haruki Suzumiya
  • Mikuru Asahina - Mitsuuru Asahina
  • Yuki Nagato - Yuuki Nagato
  • Itsuki Koizumi - Itsuko Koizumi
  • Ryoko Asakura - Ryou Asakura
  • Emiri Kimidori - Emori Kimidori OR Emirio Kimidori (this is still uncertain.)

Names that are unchanged due to being family names:
  • Shamisen (technically)
  • Tsuruya
  • Taniguchi
  • Kunikida
  • Okabe
  • Arakawa
  • Nakagawa (from "Charmed At First Sight LOVER")
  • Sakanaka (from "Wandering Shadow")
  • Sasaki
  • Fujiwara

  • Sonou Mori
  • Keiichi Tamaru
  • Yutaka Tamaru
  • ENOZ:
    • Miyuki Enomoto
    • Takako Nakanishi
    • Mizuki Okajima
    • Mai Zaizen
  • Kuyou Suou
  • Kyoko Tachibana

  • Kyon's sibling
  • Computer Club President
  • Student Council Chairperson

Originally Posted by dkellis View Post
My take on the matter, subject to change when consensus is reached:

Kyonko: Where the original has "Kyon-kun", it becomes "Kyon-chan" (this applies to, as far as I can tell, Itsuko, Mitsuru, Tsuruya, and her little brother). Haruki just calls her "Kyon". Yuuki never calls her by name; I'm expecting to go through some intense verbal gymnastics just for that.

Haruki: Everyone except for Kyon, Tsuruya, and Otouto, calls him "Suzumiya-san". Kyon calls him "Haruki", Tsuruya and Otouto call him "Haru-kun".

Mitsuru: Haruki calls him "Mitsuru-kun". Otouto calls him "Mitsuru-san". Tsuruya calls him "Mitsuru". Kyonko calls the small version "Asahina-sempai", and the large version "Asahina-san". Yuuki calls him "Asahina Mitsuru". Everyone else calls him "Asahina-san".

Yuuki: Haruki calls him "Yuuki", Tsuruya calls him "Nagato-kun", everyone else calls him "Nagato-san".

Itsuko: Kyonko calls her "Itsuko". Tsuruya calls her "Itsuko-chan", Otouto calls her "Itsuko-san". Yuuki calls her "Koizumi Itsuko", and everyone else calls her "Koizumi-san".

Tsuruya: Kyonko calls him "Tsuruya-sempai". Haruki calls him "Tsuruya". Everyone else calls him "Tsuruya-san".

Otouto: With the sole exception of Kyonko (who doesn't call him anything), everyone calls him "Otouto-kun".
Character Heights
These are, as with all height discussions, subject to change. Many of these are based on eyeballing the canon characters' heights, as well as the inconsistently-followed "height chart".

Note that the numbers here are not exact. They were settled upon mainly through Internet Debate Attrition.
  • Haruki: 186cm (taller and bigger than most because the project writers believe that he should be a "natural bully".)
  • Kyonko: between 152cm and 157 cm (her original bodytype was based off Yuki Nagato, and it is a given, especially in fanart portrayals, that she is noticeably shorter than the others. How much shorter is in debate.)
  • Itsuko: 160cm
  • Yuuki: 182cm (tall to fit with the "tall, cool, silent bishounen" archetype.)
  • Mitsuuru: 166cm

Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
The order ot their height in my mind:
Mikuru < Yuki ~= Kyonko < Haruhi < Itsuko ~= Mitsuru < Kyon < Itsuki ~= Yuuki < Haruki

Then, Kyonko still be shor, to fit the mental image most has of her, but still is taller the Mikuru (who have to be the shorter of the cast). I actually would put her above Yuki and below Haruhi.

Itsuko would be a tall and elegant bishoujo (just like Itsuki is a tall and elegant bishonen), making her more or lass as tall as Mitsuru, who is pretty short.

Kyon is avarage, taller then Mitsuru and shorter then Itsuki.

Yuuki is tal and bishonen, so is the same height as Itsuki.

Haruki is taller then all. By being a 'natural bully' and to be intimidating enouth to the other guys of the same age don't try to beat the crap of him for his weirdnes (insted, leaving him alone). This was the reason 'we' decided to why he is so tall right?
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
Well, lets settle the matter, we are going for Danchou decision right?

Mikuru is the smaller, period.

Kyonko is the shorter of the seitenkan brigade, having a similar build to Yuki.

Haruhi is between Kyonko/Yuki and Itsuko.

Itsuko is kinda tall, similar to Ryouko.

Mitsuru is just slightly taller then Itsuko (poor guy)

Kyon is pretty bigger then both.

Haruki is the same heigth as Yuuki (obviously taller, acording to himself). Both are more or less as tall as Itsuki.
Originally Posted by DJ_RockmanX View Post
Kyonko - Since the beginning her build has been based off of Yuki. That's pretty much the end of that story as far as I'm concerned. And we all know her personality. That needs no explanation either.

Itsuko - AA+ puts her at about where Ryoko is, plus a bust upgrade to perhaps Mikuru level. This is more natural because she isn't tiny as hell like Mikuru, so the proportions look far better. I wouldn't peg her as supermodel status as Kyonko might exaggerate, but she is basically the perfect high school girl given Itsuki's personality.

Mitsuru - His height is between that of the girls and the other guys, so really this is something I would have thought would come up for more debate. But for the most part he's pegged as barely taller than Itsuko, and far behind Haruki and Yuuki. The guys intimidate him and Itsuko challenges him in height, so it's fairly logical that he's more comfortable around Kyonko. But I personally think he shouldn't worry about his small stature too much, given that we know he grows up to be bishounen. That, and he's got a MAGNUM. Most guys would take comfort in that.

Yuuki - I don't believe in space giants, but I do believe he should be around Itsuki's height and somewhat lanky in build, at least compared to Haruki. He shouldn't have too much presence, given that Yuki was supposed to blend in with the clubroom like a piece of furniture. Fangirls are pretty partial to him though, so we'll need to turn down the Bishie Sparkles a notch.

Haruki - Imposing, through his nature and not his height. He's built well, but isn't a hulking giant like some of us make him out to be. I'd peg him as a bit taller than Kyon, at about Itsuki's height like Yuuki. He shouldn't be drastically different than the ideal male lead other than the issues of bearing the name Suzumiya Haruki.

Bust Sizes
Kyonko is often portrayed in fanart to be "flat", and this is kept quite closely.

Itsuko is considered to be the stereotypical bishoujo, as Canon!Itsuki is the stereotypical bishounen, and so Itsuko has the sort of bust other girls are often portrayed to be jealous of in anime. It is implied that she has the same bust size as Canon!Mikuru.

This topic is, for some reason, very popular among newbies to the thread, which is why it has to be included in this FAQ. Don't bring it up again unless you have something substantially new to share.

"John Smith"
A problem we are facing is that we have no idea how to genderbend "John Smith".

The obvious purpose in the original canon is for Kyon to provide a fake name to Haruhi that is obviously not a Japanese name, but we're not sure if Tanigawa Nagaru had any other purpose in mind. Therefore, while we could use "Jane Smith", we're not sure if this has the correct connotations in full.

Other suggestions have included:
  • Jane Doe - As a "generic Western name" like "Jane Smith".
  • Pocahontas - As a counterpart to the most famous historial John Smith of Jamestown.
  • Sarah Jane Smith - As a nod towards both "Jane Smith" and the sometime companion of Doctor Who. (Doctor Who occasionally uses "John Smith" as an alias.) "Rose Tyler" has also been suggested for this reason.
  • Joan Smith - As a reference of Joan of Arc. (link)

As no consensus has yet been reached, note that any further name suggestions are not likely to achieve this unless they are really, really good.

TVTropes is a popular wiki about "tropes" (as defined by the site; in short, ideas/events/concepts/things that turn up really often in fiction). It is popular because it recommends "breezy language" and humour, and operates primarily on listing examples which are entertaining to read.

A problem arises due to the "breezy language" and "humour" parts: some of the article titles are very obscure, due to being injokes or puns or references to something or other, or simply because the article creator thought it sounded nice. And yet, in some cases, there has been no better title suggested, so the obscure title is all there is.

This means that using TVTropes terms in a post will likely mean that readers will have no idea what you are talking about. Telling us to "go look it up" is probably going to result simply in our taking the easy route and not bothering to decipher that post.


The Current Hot Project:
This is the project that many people in the thread has decided is interesting enough to take part in. It is the closest thing that may be considered to be an endorsement.

The current hot project is a visual novel based on the Tsuji/Crossroads idea - an interactive story whose outcome depends in the various actions the reader makes at certain decision points. The visual novel is placed after Endless Eight in the canon storyline (and might spoil the end of Endless Eight).

The archive may be found here.


Posts That May Be Interesting To Read
Note that reading these is not mandatory, but may provide some insight into the psyche of this thread.


The differences between Haruhi and Haruki Suzumiya

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
That post is outdated. =P

Why Kyonko is moe

Last edited by dkellis; 2009-08-27 at 19:15.
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